Why so many Immigrants?

[GoodLife]

Every year about a million immigrants are admitted to America legally. We get more immigrants than any country on Earth. Not easy, lots of paperwork, costs money, millions are denied. Estimates of illegal immigrants in the country are 10-12 million, lots of them are minorities. They'll brave deserts, walk over mountains, swim rivers, die of thirst and starvation, and pay thousands of dollars to their guides. If they get caught and deported, they do it all over again and again.

What the heck are they thinking? I see people on this forum telling us how racist this country is, how "systemic oppression" grinds minorities to dust and despair, and our economic system is designed to crush the weak. Plus our police are racists brutes who like to beat people up.

I can only conclude that all the immigrants that keep coming here are complete idiots, or masochists, probably both.

[Kerry Azz]

I really hope your not my neighbor!

[GoodLife]

I really hope your not my neighbor!

I don't think you understand my post dear.

[Bogie Shooter]

////

[alwann]

The belief that life and opportunities here are better than there. I'd rather be poor here than in Bangladesh.

[GoodLife]

The belief that life and opportunities here are better than there. I'd rather be poor here than in Bangladesh.

Congratulations! You were able to detect the subtle sarcasm dripping from the last sentence in my post.:coolsmiley:

[Stu from NYC]

Best country on earth but we should not be allowing illegals to come here

[GoodLife]

Best country on earth but we should not be allowing illegals to come here

That's a topic for another thread. I'm waiting for an explanation on why they keep coming, legal or illegal, if this country is so racist and oppressive.

[Number 10 GI]

I really hope your not my neighbor!

I'm sure GoodLife hopes not also.

[Number 10 GI]

I was talking with a Hispanic man the other day and he admitted that he is here illegally. He owns a business doing landscaping work and employs a small crew. He said the crime and gangs in Mexico make life very dangerous and difficult to run a business. Here, he said, if you work hard you will be successful. We had a plumber do some work yesterday, an older Vietnamese man who had immigrated here 4 years ago. It's pretty amazing, a foreigner that probably knew very little English was able to start his own business. We have so many people, native born Americans, who received a free public education that can only whine and moan there are no opportunities for work. Pretty pathetic.

[anothersteve]

That's a topic for another thread. I'm waiting for an explanation on why they keep coming, legal or illegal, if this country is so racist and oppressive.

We're only racist's towards African Americans? :ohdear:
Steve

[manaboutown]

A fellow I know who is a naturalized American citizen born in India said that when his brother visited he looked around and could not believe his eyes, saying "What a country! Even the poor people get to be fat".

[GoodLife]

We're only racist's towards African Americans? :ohdear:
Steve

We've got over 2 million immigrants direct from Africa, so that can't be it.

PS love ur new tagline, hilarious!

[ColdNoMore]

I really hope your not my neighbor!

:agree:

I think I'm safe though, given that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...and I don't have any neighbors trying to copy my nice landscaping. :1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Every year about a million immigrants are admitted to America legally. We get more immigrants than any country on Earth. Not easy, lots of paperwork, costs money, millions are denied. Estimates of illegal immigrants in the country are 10-12 million, lots of them are minorities. They'll brave deserts, walk over mountains, swim rivers, die of thirst and starvation, and pay thousands of dollars to their guides. If they get caught and deported, they do it all over again and again.

What the heck are they thinking? I see people on this forum telling us how racist this country is, how "systemic oppression" grinds minorities to dust and despair, and our economic system is designed to crush the weak. Plus our police are racists brutes who like to beat people up.

I can only conclude that all the immigrants that keep coming here are complete idiots, or masochists, probably both.

Not sure why you'd even ask such a thing.

[ColdNoMore]

Not sure why you'd even ask such a thing.

On the contrary...you know exactly why.

The reason we still have institutional racism/bigotry/xenophobia is because at a minimum...a lot of people just don't want to see it.

Then there are those folks on the other end...who like it that way.

It's pretty easy to tell...who those people are. :ohdear:

[GoodLife]

On the contrary...you know exactly why.

The reason we still have institutional racism/bigotry/xenophobia is because at a minimum...a lot of people just don't want to see it.

Then there are those folks on the other end...who like it that way.

It's pretty easy to tell...who those people are. :ohdear:



There it is, we have 40 million immigrants, millions more every year, and they just don't want to see it. If only they could talk to certain people, then I'm sure they would stop coming.

[anothersteve]

There are people that really have a hard time with the terms legal and illegal. Excuse the expression, but it's black and white.

Steve

[GoodLife]

There are people that really have a hard time with the terms legal and illegal. Excuse the expression, but it's black and white.

Steve

Yes very true. But please don't derail the discussion about why immigrants keep coming in spite of the racism and oppression.

We already have one really good answer. They just don't see it.

[Number 10 GI]

On the contrary...you know exactly why.

The reason we still have institutional racism/bigotry/xenophobia is because at a minimum...a lot of people just don't want to see it.

Then there are those folks on the other end...who like it that way.

It's pretty easy to tell...who those people are. :ohdear:



A whole lot of people look for anything they can label as racism/bigotry/xenophobia regardless whether it is or not. They see only what they want to see.

[Dgizzi]

Every year about a million immigrants are admitted to America legally. We get more immigrants than any country on Earth. Not easy, lots of paperwork, costs money, millions are denied. Estimates of illegal immigrants in the country are 10-12 million, lots of them are minorities. They'll brave deserts, walk over mountains, swim rivers, die of thirst and starvation, and pay thousands of dollars to their guides. If they get caught and deported, they do it all over again and again.

What the heck are they thinking? I see people on this forum telling us how racist this country is, how "systemic oppression" grinds minorities to dust and despair, and our economic system is designed to crush the weak. Plus our police are racists brutes who like to beat people up.

I can only conclude that all the immigrants that keep coming here are complete idiots, or masochists, probably both.
Well said...paperwork? What paperwork is being done since all of them come here illegally. They don’t want to do paperwork cause then they have to pay taxes

[GoodLife]

Well said...paperwork? What paperwork is being done since all of them come here illegally. They don’t want to do paperwork cause then they have to pay taxes

About a million immigrants are admitted every year legally, with paperwork. Millions more get denied for one reason or another. Millions more come every year illegally.

One thing we know for sure, lots and lots of people from all over the world want to come and live in America.

[anothersteve]

PS love ur new tagline, hilarious!

Thanks, I just need to work on all those fancy colors available.
Steve

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

About a million immigrants are admitted every year legally, with paperwork. Millions more get denied for one reason or another. Millions more come every year illegally.

One thing we know for sure, lots and lots of people from all over the world want to come and live in America.

And millions of those here illegally have fake social security cards, and get legitimate jobs and pay actual real federal income taxes, and social security tax, and medicare tax, and in some cases, state and local income tax as well.

Why do they come? Because they are FROM countries that are even worse than we are. That doesn't make us any good at all. It just means we're not as bad as Venezuela, Panama, parts of Mexico, Columbia, the rest of South America, or Syria or other parts of the world that are war-torn.

America isn't great. It's merely "not as bad" as many other places.

[GoodLife]

Thanks, I just need to work on all those fancy colors available.
Steve

Yes you do, also use lots of smilies :D like this one when you say something especially clever.

[GoodLife]

And millions of those here illegally have fake social security cards, and get legitimate jobs and pay actual real federal income taxes, and social security tax, and medicare tax, and in some cases, state and local income tax as well.

Why do they come? Because they are FROM countries that are even worse than we are. That doesn't make us any good at all. It just means we're not as bad as Venezuela, Panama, parts of Mexico, Columbia, the rest of South America, or Syria or other parts of the world that are war-torn.

America isn't great. It's merely "not as bad" as many other places.

That's strange, in the last 20 years we've had over 17 million legal immigrants from Europe and Canada. They must have come hear cuz "it's not as bad" :icon_wink:

[Number 10 GI]

And millions of those here illegally have fake social security cards, and get legitimate jobs and pay actual real federal income taxes, and social security tax, and medicare tax, and in some cases, state and local income tax as well.

My wife worked for a large mall management company in their payroll department. The illegals that worked for them knew that if they claimed the max number of dependents that there would be no taxes taken from their paycheck. They paid no federal income tax. I imagine that state and local taxes work the same way. A whole lot of the illegals get paid under the table so no tax is paid by them.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

My wife worked for a large mall management company in their payroll department. The illegals that worked for them knew that if they claimed the max number of dependents that there would be no taxes taken from their paycheck. They paid no federal income tax. I imagine that state and local taxes work the same way. A whole lot of the illegals get paid under the table so no tax is paid by them.

The ones who claim the max amount - STILL pay medicare and social security tax. No one is exempt from that, except certain civil servants and religious organization employees.

The ones who get paid under the table, are being paid by employers who are breaking the law by employing them.

Also, people are not illegal. Their actions are legal or illegal - but the people themselves are not illegal. They really are actual people. Their existence as "people" is 100% legitimate.

[anothersteve]

Also, people are not illegal. Their actions are legal or illegal - but the people themselves are not illegal. They really are actual people. Their existence as "people" is 100% legitimate.

So with that train of thought there are no felons, rapists, child molesters, arsonists, murderers, domestic offenders...............
Their actions are just " legal or illegal" also? Yep they sure are just carbon units.
Calgon ................take me away!
Steve

[Get real]

On the contrary...you know exactly why.

The reason we still have institutional racism/bigotry/xenophobia is because at a minimum...a lot of people just don't want to see it.

Then there are those folks on the other end...who like it that way.

It's pretty easy to tell...who those people are. :ohdear:



Who would that be?

[coalminer]

Good life, your letter is an example of twisted logic in light of the protests happening in this country.

[GoodLife]

Good life, your letter is an example of twisted logic in light of the protests happening in this country.

America gets millions of immigrants from all over the world, we're more popular as a place to move to than anywhere else on earth. People vote with their feet. They keep voting for America. Nothing twisted at all about that.

[Alana33]

ALL of Our Ancestors were Immigrants!
They fled their countries for many reasons, war, famine, religious persecution, a chance of a better life, etc. You and your family would not be here had America, Land of the Free, not welcomed you!
The only indigenous peoples are Native American Indians and we pretty well screwed them over and continue to do so as well as other people of color and creed.
Bigotry and racism is well on display.

[ColdNoMore]

ALL of Our Ancestors were Immigrants!
They fled their countries for many reasons, war, famine, religious persecution, a chance of a better life, etc. You and your family would not be here had America, Land of the Free, not welcomed you!

The only indigenous peoples are Native American Indians and we pretty well screwed them over and continue to do so as well as other people of color and creed.

Bigotry and racism is well on display.

Well said. :thumbup:

[Pamelah]

Let me help.

Sarcasm: Generally, the literal meaning is different than what the speaker intends to say through sarcasm. Sarcasm is a literary and rhetorical device that is meant to mock, often with satirical or ironic remarks,
How about using less sarcasm?

[Bikeracer2009]

It's much worse in their homeland.

[Boblib68]

We were all immigrants to this country except the native Indians! This is what made our country great!!

[stan the man]

We were all immigrants to this country except the native Indians! This is what made our country great!!

Yes we took what we wanted --- took the Indians land - took the western part of the US from Mex. and yes we took Fla. We gave the Indians Nothing but disease..We used the slave to make America great

[rlcooper70]

What percentage of illegals came here legally and overstayed their visa? We had an Irish guy who had been living in Somerville Ma for 30 years ... to get his visa renewed he would have had to leave his business and go back to Ireland and re-apply (at the time) and he didn't leave his wife and kids and business ... just overstayed. They sent him back to Ireland in 2016. Deacon in the Church. He was one of the illegals you are referencing.

[MandoMan]

Every year about a million immigrants are admitted to America legally. We get more immigrants than any country on Earth. Not easy, lots of paperwork, costs money, millions are denied. Estimates of illegal immigrants in the country are 10-12 million, lots of them are minorities. They'll brave deserts, walk over mountains, swim rivers, die of thirst and starvation, and pay thousands of dollars to their guides. If they get caught and deported, they do it all over again and again.

What the heck are they thinking? I see people on this forum telling us how racist this country is, how "systemic oppression" grinds minorities to dust and despair, and our economic system is designed to crush the weak. Plus our police are racists brutes who like to beat people up.

I can only conclude that all the immigrants that keep coming here are complete idiots, or masochists, probably both.

Do I sense an ironic grin on your face? I suspect that a lot of readers didn’t catch your irony.

I’m a descendant of immigrants from Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands (Jewish), Belgium, France, England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Africa, and India. Also 3.4% Neanderthal! Some were well off when they came here or even had titles. Many came as indentured servants and spent years essentially in slavery in Pennsylvania and Virginia and Kentucky before working off their sentences and making lives for themselves. Some were descended from slaves in British Guiana. One of my sisters and one of my first cousins married men from Mexico, one of them here illegally. My Danish great-grandfather was born a couple years after his parents arrived in Minnesota. In 1896 he started college, at a new school in Lincoln, Nebraska. All of his classes were taught in Danish, even though he was born here. He went on to write religious articles in Danish for sale to Danish immigrants on the prairies. His wife was born in Norway. None of their children spoke any Danish or Norwegian. Isn’t this a great country? I’m so glad to be a descendent of immigrants, even though I prefer that immigrants be legal and treated with respect and dignity and protected so long as they abide by the laws.

[Bucco]

What percentage of illegals came here legally and overstayed their visa? We had an Irish guy who had been living in Somerville Ma for 30 years ... to get his visa renewed he would have had to leave his business and go back to Ireland and re-apply (at the time) and he didn't leave his wife and kids and business ... just overstayed. They sent him back to Ireland in 2016. Deacon in the Church. He was one of the illegals you are referencing.

SPOILER ALERT...on here, the norm is to classify and label and then attack

[ColdNoMore]

Yes we took what we wanted --- took the Indians land - took the western part of the US from Mex. and yes we took Fla. We gave the Indians Nothing but disease..

We used the slave to make America great

Thank you for being willing, in the face of so many posters who purposely forget this fact and will attack you for it...to speak up.

Not only was this nation founded with violent protesting, because of what they felt was a lack of justice and constant discrimination from the British, but its foundation of wealth...was built on the backs of free labor from black slaves. :mad:

[Bucco]

Thank you for being willing, in the face of so many posters who purposely forget this fact and will attack you for it...to speak up.

Not only was this nation founded with violent protesting, because of what they felt was a lack of justice and constant discrimination from the British, but its foundation of wealth...was built on the backs of free labor from black slaves. :mad:

Seems some must have someone to hate and immigrants are one of the selected. Must make some feel special.

[Pedrocarrasco01@yahoo.com]

There are people that really have a hard time with the terms legal and illegal. Excuse the expression, but it's black and white.

Steve
I am 100% for legal immigration, however illegals do not comply with our society’s rules, they already broke our laws by coming illegally, I am a LEGAL immigrant and an Naturalized American Citizen, illegals don’t abide by rules most drive without licenses, Insurance, and by the way the estimate is between 11 and 25 million in our Country.

[kenoc7]

Best country on earth but we should not be allowing illegals to come here

The USA is not the best country - it leads the world in very few indicators of health, wealth or well-being. Watch Jeff Daniels on "Newsroom"

[GoodLife]

Seems some must have someone to hate and immigrants are one of the selected. Must make some feel special.

Nonsense, I don't hate immigrants, I married one. :icon_wink:

I don't even hate illegal immigrants because I understand why they come here, for a better life. That doesn't mean I condone illegal immigration.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Nonsense, I don't hate immigrants, I married one. :icon_wink:

I don't even hate illegal immigrants because I understand why they come here, for a better life. That doesn't mean I condone illegal immigration.

Hm. Well maybe we should try doing something about that. Maybe - we should create a more efficient process of legal immigration, so people don't have to wait 10 or 20 years to get that "legal" designation. When a crime organization runs your city, and its minions break into family homes to kidnap their children for the sex trade, and threaten to kill your OTHER children if you protest... maybe that's a good reason to want to leave your country.

Since this doesn't happen as frequently in the USA (don't kid yourself - it happens here - just not as frequently), you know you have a better chance at survival, and a better shot at your kid growing up to become a productive member of society. If only you could GET here.

So you do what you have to do, to get here. You worry about the details later.

Millions of central and South Americans have been doing this for years. Many of those millions have been fortunate to get through the asylum system and become citizens, or at least on the official path to citizenship. Many were not so fortunate and are still waiting for the process to work for them.

Until the last few years, when the rules changed. Now there are more people for whom the process cannot and will not work. But they don't know that til they show up and try. They have to try. To do otherwise would mean slavery, rape, death.

[ColdNoMore]

Seems some must have someone to hate and immigrants are one of the selected. Must make some feel special.

Immigrants are but the latest...as to being the focal point of hatred.

Black people, from before we were even a nation, have been the focus of hate and discrimination...from the very beginning.

It's still hard to grasp what kind of ignorance/animals/hate it would take, for the FF's to determine that someone, simply because they were born with black skin...were only three fifths of a human being.

And then in Dred Scott, for the Supreme Court to rule that blacks...could never become American citizens. :mad:

And that feeling persists, possibly in even larger numbers...to this very day. :ohdear:

[JulieER]

That's a topic for another thread. I'm waiting for an explanation on why they keep coming, legal or illegal, if this country is so racist and oppressive.

Because theirs is worse!! Corrupt governments, lack of jobs, lack of access to food, murders, violence, zero opportunities.

[GoodLife]

Because theirs is worse!! Corrupt governments, lack of jobs, lack of access to food, murders, violence, zero opportunities.

And the 17 million who came here from Canada and Europe in last 20 years?

[Annie66]

Well said...paperwork? What paperwork is being done since all of them come here illegally. They don’t want to do paperwork cause then they have to pay taxes

Oh please ….. do you honestly think that is the reason? If so, I recommend you study the issue harder.

[Windguy]

I can only conclude that all the immigrants that keep coming here are complete idiots, or masochists, probably both.

Well, it’s sad that that is the only conclusion you can draw. It’s sad that you don’t see how desperate people can be just for a chance at mere survival.

Our subsidized food industry has destroyed the economies of third-world countries. People there used to be able to make an adequate, but hardly luxurious, living as subsistence farmers. Now it costs them more to buy what they need to grow their own crops than it does to buy food from the industrial farmers of the US. But, there are few jobs there to earn the money to buy even the cheap food, so they come to the US out of desperation.

It’s sad that you don’t see how desperate people can be to escape the violence of the cartels that supply Americans with drugs.

It’s sad that you don’t see how the US’s desire for favorable trade or suppression of communism results in violence when we support ruthless dictators. “He may be an SOB, but he’s our SOB.”

It’s sad how you and many Americans don’t see that despite the despicable way we treat people who come here because they have no other choice if they just want to survive that it’s not nearly as bad as what they would face at home. You see them as “rapists and thieves,” but in reality, most are hard-working people who love their families. Yes, I’m sure some of them are “rapists and thieves,” but just like it is for us, such are the exception and not the rule. As some of us are “rapists and thieves,” how would you like people in other countries to treat all of us they way we treat the tragically desperate people who come here because they see the US as their only hope for survival?

If you want to slow the immigration, encourage your government to end food subsidies, to legalize drugs, and to stop interfering in third-world politics. We caused this problem and only we can end it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And the 17 million who came here from Canada and Europe in last 20 years?

...are mostly white.

[GoodLife]

Well, it’s sad that that is the only conclusion you can draw. It’s sad that you don’t see how desperate people can be just for a chance at mere survival.

Our subsidized food industry has destroyed the economies of third-world countries. People there used to be able to make an adequate, but hardly luxurious, living as subsistence farmers. Now it costs them more to buy what they need to grow their own crops than it does to buy food from the industrial farmers of the US. But, there are few jobs there to earn the money to buy even the cheap food, so they come to the US out of desperation.

It’s sad that you don’t see how desperate people can be to escape the violence of the cartels that supply Americans with drugs.

It’s sad that you don’t see how the US’s desire for favorable trade or suppression of communism results in violence when we support ruthless dictators. “He may be an SOB, but he’s our SOB.”

It’s sad how you and many Americans don’t see that despite the despicable way we treat people who come here because they have no other choice if they just want to survive that it’s not nearly as bad as what they would face at home. You see them as “rapists and thieves,” but in reality, most are hard-working people who love their families. Yes, I’m sure some of them are “rapists and thieves,” but just like it is for us, such are the exception and not the rule. As some of us are “rapists and thieves,” how would you like people in other countries to treat all of us they way we treat the tragically desperate people who come here because they see the US as their only hope for survival?

It's sad that you could not detect the sarcasm dripping from that sentence, even after it has been explained several times in this thread.

[mk1126]

Can we have the Morses ( They'll take the money out of "The Bond" and "the Amenity Fees") to build a huge wall around The Villages!

[Windguy]

The only indigenous peoples are Native American Indians
I agree with your sentiment, but there are no indigenous people. Those you are referring to are merely the first immigrants. Canadiens call them the First Nations. I like that better than Native Americans. And they came in many waves.

[Windguy]

The USA is not the best country - it leads the world in very few indicators of health, wealth or well-being. Watch Jeff Daniels on "Newsroom"
Yeah, but have you ever been to Norway in the winter? ;-)

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Congratulations! You were able to detect the subtle sarcasm dripping from the last sentence in my post.:coolsmiley:

GoodLife, I picked up on your sarcasm and irony right away. I'm not too surprised that not everyone did. In my many years of online discussions, I've noticed many people are very literal. I even posted a few times that gullible is not in the dictionary and I'd get replies proving me wrong.

That said, I know you are too smart not to be able to answer your own question: As hard as life is sometimes in this country, it pales in comparison to the dire conditions they're trying to flee.

[Windguy]

It's sad that you could not detect the sarcasm dripping from that sentence, even after it has been explained several times in this thread.
Did it not occur to you that I didn’t read the entire forum before I responded? As most of us don’t know you, might I suggest you use a winky face to let people know when you are being sarcastic? I can’t see your face to know. I can only read your words. But, I apologize for directing my comments at you personally. I should have been less specific.

Still, my response is appropriate with respect to all who unsarcastically believe such things. And that is true for MANY people. I’ve heard people say such things in earnest and it sickens me.

[Nipper]

Every year about a million immigrants are admitted to America legally. We get more immigrants than any country on Earth. Not easy, lots of paperwork, costs money, millions are denied. Estimates of illegal immigrants in the country are 10-12 million, lots of them are minorities. They'll brave deserts, walk over mountains, swim rivers, die of thirst and starvation, and pay thousands of dollars to their guides. If they get caught and deported, they do it all over again and again.

What the heck are they thinking? I see people on this forum telling us how racist this country is, how "systemic oppression" grinds minorities to dust and despair, and our economic system is designed to crush the weak. Plus our police are racists brutes who like to beat people up.

I can only conclude that all the immigrants that keep coming here are complete idiots, or masochists, probably both.


How self centered you are. How do you think you got here? Every single one of us has an ancestor who arrived in this county as an immigrant and did not speak English. I know mine did. They came from Germany in 1710 and did not speak English. People hated them for that reason. I have a privately published book of my family's history, and it is fascinating to know that what goes around, comes around.

[GoodLife]

...are mostly white.

Uh huh, even white people from perfectly good places like Canada and Europe want to come here, millions of them. Kinda blows your previous statement out of the water.


Why do they come? Because they are FROM countries that are even worse than we are

[cherylncliff]

Based on official statistics, in 2017 the US is 29th in net migration per 1000 residents. List of countries by net migration rate - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate)

This is similar for the average over the last 5 years.

[GoodLife]

Based on official statistics, in 2017 the US is 29th in net migration per 1000 residents. List of countries by net migration rate - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate)

This is similar for the average over the last 5 years.

Now add 10-12 million illegal immigrants to the calculation.

[jebartle]

So with that train of thought there are no felons, rapists, child molesters, arsonists, murderers, domestic offenders...............
Their actions are just " legal or illegal" also? Yep they sure are just carbon units.
Calgon ................take me away!
Steve

Yup Steve, we've got many and more that are home-grown!

[psoccermom]

That's a topic for another thread. I'm waiting for an explanation on why they keep coming, legal or illegal, if this country is so racist and oppressive.
They keep coming here because this is the best country to live in. With our capitalistic economy they have a chance of making something of themselves. We have freedoms like no other countries. Now as far as the negatives you state, that is the media telling you that. We are far less racist than we were (pre-civil rights). Blacks and whites do get along but the media tells you differently. We are not oppressive since anyone willing and able to work can do far better than where they came from and to advance in society. But again, the media tells you differently. Are we a perfect country, no. Do we have work to do to improve, yes. What we are seeing with the riots is an isolated incident turned into an insurrection. We don't have cops killing blacks everyday. This was one bad cop (and the other 3 that did nothing to stop him) that needs to go. The people had an absolute reason to protest but another group has hijacked that reason to destroy this country.

[joseppe]

The ones who claim the max amount - STILL pay medicare and social security tax. No one is exempt from that, except certain civil servants and religious organization employees.

The ones who get paid under the table, are being paid by employers who are breaking the law by employing them.

Also, people are not illegal. Their actions are legal or illegal - but the people themselves are not illegal. They really are actual people. Their existence as "people" is 100% legitimate.

Only if they stay in their country of origin.

[Topspinmo]

I was talking with a Hispanic man the other day and he admitted that he is here illegally. He owns a business doing landscaping work and employs a small crew. He said the crime and gangs in Mexico make life very dangerous and difficult to run a business. Here, he said, if you work hard you will be successful. We had a plumber do some work yesterday, an older Vietnamese man who had immigrated here 4 years ago. It's pretty amazing, a foreigner that probably knew very little English was able to start his own business. We have so many people, native born Americans, who received a free public education that can only whine and moan there are no opportunities for work. Pretty pathetic.

We have no structure to develop a skill or trade. Unless you call video games and daycare raised a skill. Lack of motivation due to our privileged life. I don’t even want to get into public school problems.

[Topspinmo]

Maybe you should ask the farmers and other agricultural employers how they feel about immigrants. The next time you go to the grocery store and pick up lettuce, strawberries and a slab of ribs, think about who picked and prepared those items, so you could enjoy them. Immigrants are sorely needed. Just ask Trump who he has working at his resorts, while caging families at the border.

Maybe you should ask them about livable wage and day labor. How they get out of paying taxes?

[Topspinmo]

We were all immigrants to this country except the native Indians! This is what made our country great!!

No, our family tree we’re all immigrants including the Indians if you’re were born on the soil you’re not immigrants of that soil. Borders make immigrants when they cross it.

[Topspinmo]

Based on official statistics, in 2017 the US is 29th in net migration per 1000 residents. List of countries by net migration rate - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate)

This is similar for the average over the last 5 years.

Wikipedia, now that’s authority’s of truth and correctness.

[ColdNoMore]

Maybe you should ask the farmers and other agricultural employers how they feel about immigrants. The next time you go to the grocery store and pick up lettuce, strawberries and a slab of ribs, think about who picked and prepared those items, so you could enjoy them. Immigrants are sorely needed. Just ask Trump who he has working at his resorts, while caging families at the border.

Sending employers of undocumented workers to prison for a long time, will do more than any other single thing...to stop the problem or allow it in a humane way.

Then watch how many anti-undocumented workers screech and cry... about how much their food and other products have increased.

Thereby requiring even more of these industries to go to countries, where someone makes $15 a day...so as to satisfy the profit demand of their stockholders.


To those who employee undocumented workers, I say...LOCK THEM UP!

Even if that means the flowers here in TV...don't get changed as much. ;)

[Topspinmo]

Sending employers of undocumented workers to prison for a long time, will do more than any other single thing...to stop the problem or allow it in a humane way.

Then watch how many anti-undocumented workers screech and cry... about how much their food and other products have increased.

Thereby requiring even more of these industries to go to countries, where someone makes $15 a day...so as to satisfy the profit demand of their stockholders.


To those who employee undocumented workers, I say...LOCK THEM UP!

Even if that means the flowers here in TV...don't get changed as much. ;)



:ho:. Post that I can agree with.

[Timothyimitchell]

Best country on earth but we should not be allowing illegals to come here

Come here, legally. Thats it. Use common sense.

[GoodLife]

GoodLife, I picked up on your sarcasm and irony right away. I'm not too surprised that not everyone did. In my many years of online discussions, I've noticed many people are very literal. I even posted a few times that gullible is not in the dictionary and I'd get replies proving me wrong.

That said, I know you are too smart not to be able to answer your own question: As hard as life is sometimes in this country, it pales in comparison to the dire conditions they're trying to flee.

Yes many come to have a better chance in life. But surely they would hesitate if they thought America was a racist oppressive society that some posters here believe it to be.

And you are forgetting that over 17 million people from Canada and Europe have immigrated here in the last 20 years. They are obviously not fleeing some hellhole they were born in. They saw America as an even better opportunity to succeed than the nice place they came from. It is not a small thing to uproot yourself and move to a foreign country, people do not do this on a whim.

[johnadamsUSMC]

Tell me where I'm missing the boat
Why do so many people condone the actions of "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS"? Isn't it as simple as the word "illegal"? And don't we have a "legal immigration" process (as slow as it may be)? What do we tell the people who are following all the rules and getting into this country legally?
Or do we do the name change process and call the illegals "displaced foreigners" like they do in California?
Just asking so be nice with your comments

[retiredguy123]

Tell me where I'm missing the boat
Why do so many people condone the actions of "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS"? Isn't it as simple as the word "illegal"? And don't we have a "legal immigration" process (as slow as it may be)? What do we tell the people who are following all the rules and getting into this country legally?
Or do we do the name change process and call the illegals "displaced foreigners" like they do in California?
Just asking so be nice with your comments
It's the same reason that many people are opposed to requiring proof of citizenship to vote.

[Aloha1]

ALL of Our Ancestors were Immigrants!
They fled their countries for many reasons, war, famine, religious persecution, a chance of a better life, etc. You and your family would not be here had America, Land of the Free, not welcomed you!
The only indigenous peoples are Native American Indians and we pretty well screwed them over and continue to do so as well as other people of color and creed.
Bigotry and racism is well on display.

Let's try to keep the terms straight. Anyone born in the USA, Mexico, or Canada is a "Native American". America is the term for the continent. Second, the term Indigenous means "originating from". The First Settlers came predominantly over the Bering Land Bridge 14,000 years ago from East Eurasia. And yes, later settlers ( English, French, Spanish, etc.) did "screw them over", much like the Vikings did to the Saxons, the Germans to the Romans, or the Arabs to the Egyptians. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it isn't only one group or an isolated incident. As long as there is migration there will be one group taking over from another group.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

[QUOTE=GoodLife;1775101]over 17 million people from Canada and Europe have immigrated here in the last 20 years. They are obviously not fleeing some hellhole they were born in. They saw America as an even better opportunity/QUOTE]

You're answering your own question. America is "even better" in spite of the repression, violence and racism.

Many of the European immigrants came from Eastern Europe where standards for living, justice, education, health, entrepreneurship etc are generally well behind ours. And I suspect Canadians move south in search of a more hospitable climate.

[retiredguy123]

Another reason for immigration is that the United States is easier to migrate to than a lot of other countries that are more restrictive regarding both legal and illegal immigration. And, they do not provide the same Government benefits that the U.S. provides to legal and illegal immigrants.

[PugMom]

. :icon_wink:

I don't even hate illegal immigrants because I understand why they come here, for a better life. That doesn't mean I condone illegal immigration.

Nonsense, I don't hate immigrants, I married one....dittos!

[jimhurtt@twc.com]

That is a rather nonsensical observation. When a motorist is charged with making an illegal turn it is a violation of the law. They are therefore committing an illegal act. They are then liable.

[sallybowron]

I was talking with a Hispanic man the other day and he admitted that he is here illegally. He owns a business doing landscaping work and employs a small crew. He said the crime and gangs in Mexico make life very dangerous and difficult to run a business. Here, he said, if you work hard you will be successful. We had a plumber do some work yesterday, an older Vietnamese man who had immigrated here 4 years ago. It's pretty amazing, a foreigner that probably knew very little English was able to start his own business. We have so many people, native born Americans, who received a free public education that can only whine and moan there are no opportunities for work. Pretty pathetic.

It is indeed!

[GoodLife]

[QUOTE=GoodLife;1775101]over 17 million people from Canada and Europe have immigrated here in the last 20 years. They are obviously not fleeing some hellhole they were born in. They saw America as an even better opportunity/QUOTE]

You're answering your own question. America is "even better" in spite of the repression, violence and racism.

Many of the European immigrants came from Eastern Europe where standards for living, justice, education, health, entrepreneurship etc are generally well behind ours. And I suspect Canadians move south in search of a more hospitable climate.

Any time I hear someone say "I suspect" it usually means they are just guessing.

84361

The following figures show where these EU immigrants to the US come from. We have divided the EU into four regions.

East: Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia

North: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Sweden

South: Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Malta, Portugal, and Spain
West: Ireland and the United Kingdom.

Looks like 33% came from Eastern Europe, the rest from the North, South and West

Canadians can come down here for 6 months a year to enjoy a nicer climate, they don't need to emigrate and become US citizens.

[jimjamuser]

I was talking with a Hispanic man the other day and he admitted that he is here illegally. He owns a business doing landscaping work and employs a small crew. He said the crime and gangs in Mexico make life very dangerous and difficult to run a business. Here, he said, if you work hard you will be successful. We had a plumber do some work yesterday, an older Vietnamese man who had immigrated here 4 years ago. It's pretty amazing, a foreigner that probably knew very little English was able to start his own business. We have so many people, native born Americans, who received a free public education that can only whine and moan there are no opportunities for work. Pretty pathetic.
It is also possible that a native-born American (AKA a real citizen) was TRYING to reach up the ladder for success at a 1st job or better job and it was taken away from them by a legal or illegal intruder whose parent NEVER paid US taxes or served in the US Armed Forces.

[jimjamuser]

A fellow I know who is a naturalized American citizen born in India said that when his brother visited he looked around and could not believe his eyes, saying "What a country! Even the poor people get to be fat".
Too much snack food, no nutrition classes or knowledge, and little exercise. Not something to brag about.

[Number 10 GI]

ALL of Our Ancestors were Immigrants!
They fled their countries for many reasons, war, famine, religious persecution, a chance of a better life, etc. You and your family would not be here had America, Land of the Free, not welcomed you!
The only indigenous peoples are Native American Indians and we pretty well screwed them over and continue to do so as well as other people of color and creed.
Bigotry and racism is well on display.

The "Native American Indians" were also immigrants. The accepted theory is that they migrated across the Bering Straits.

[Number 10 GI]

The ones who claim the max amount - STILL pay medicare and social security tax. No one is exempt from that, except certain civil servants and religious organization employees.

The ones who get paid under the table, are being paid by employers who are breaking the law by employing them.

Also, people are not illegal. Their actions are legal or illegal - but the people themselves are not illegal. They really are actual people. Their existence as "people" is 100% legitimate.

That small amount of tax they pay doesn't even make a dent in the cost this country pays for them living here using our social systems. The law classifies them as illegal aliens regardless of silly, meaningless semantics.

[jimjamuser]

And millions of those here illegally have fake social security cards, and get legitimate jobs and pay actual real federal income taxes, and social security tax, and medicare tax, and in some cases, state and local income tax as well.

Why do they come? Because they are FROM countries that are even worse than we are. That doesn't make us any good at all. It just means we're not as bad as Venezuela, Panama, parts of Mexico, Columbia, the rest of South America, or Syria or other parts of the world that are war-torn.

America isn't great. It's merely "not as bad" as many other places.
In reality, if you look at a world chart or list of countries, The US is behind the UK at about # 11 in upward mobility. And around 30th in other issues like quality of life. The Scandinavian countries are the best. Canada is also better than the US and much harder to enter.

[Number 10 GI]

What percentage of illegals came here legally and overstayed their visa? We had an Irish guy who had been living in Somerville Ma for 30 years ... to get his visa renewed he would have had to leave his business and go back to Ireland and re-apply (at the time) and he didn't leave his wife and kids and business ... just overstayed. They sent him back to Ireland in 2016. Deacon in the Church. He was one of the illegals you are referencing.

And how does that change the fact he was here illegally? When you break the law and are caught you have to deal with the consequences. He knew that but chose to ignore the law.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

[QUOTE=LiverpoolWalrus;1775126]

Any time I hear someone say "I suspect" it usually means they are just guessing.

84361

The following figures show where these EU immigrants to the US come from. We have divided the EU into four regions.

East: Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia

North: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Sweden

South: Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Malta, Portugal, and Spain
West: Ireland and the United Kingdom.

Looks like 33% came from Eastern Europe, the rest from the North, South and West

Canadians can come down here for 6 months a year to enjoy a nicer climate, they don't need to emigrate and become US citizens.

I was indeed taking "educated guesses" on both Canada and Eastern Europe. Okay, fair enough that if Canadians just want nicer weather they can get it as snowbirds without emigrating, but let's look at Eastern Europe, according to your data:

Eastern Europe's population cohort is the second smallest of four, but yet they account for the highest share of total EU emigration to the US.

[jimjamuser]

ALL of Our Ancestors were Immigrants!
They fled their countries for many reasons, war, famine, religious persecution, a chance of a better life, etc. You and your family would not be here had America, Land of the Free, not welcomed you!
The only indigenous peoples are Native American Indians and we pretty well screwed them over and continue to do so as well as other people of color and creed.
Bigotry and racism is well on display.
America needed immigration in the frontier days. Now when AI and advanced Robotics fully hit in about 20 years the US will have a permanent 30 to 40 % unemployment. Problem is politicians do not believe it or plan ahead more than the next election.

[GoodLife]

[QUOTE=GoodLife;1775158]

I was indeed taking "educated guesses" on both Canada and Eastern Europe. Okay, fair enough that if Canadians just want nicer weather they can get it as snowbirds without emigrating, but let's look at Eastern Europe, according to your data:

Eastern Europe's population cohort is the second smallest of four, but yet they account for the highest share of total EU emigration to the US.

Irrelevant. Eastern Europe's percentage of total EU immigrants to USA is 33%. The rest come from other areas. That's not "most"

[jimjamuser]

We were all immigrants to this country except the native Indians! This is what made our country great!!
The US WAS the top country in quality of life from the end of WWII until about 1975 when the slide began. Some have not noticed the sliding board we are all on. All great civilizations have a peak and a slide.

[jimjamuser]

[/B][/SIZE]
Yes we took what we wanted --- took the Indians land - took the western part of the US from Mex. and yes we took Fla. We gave the Indians Nothing but disease..We used the slave to make America great
True that!

[jimjamuser]

The USA is not the best country - it leads the world in very few indicators of health, wealth or well-being. Watch Jeff Daniels on "Newsroom"
Yes, very true!

[perrjojo]

[QUOTE=Bucco;1774833]Seems some must have someone to hate and immigrants are one of the selected. Must make some feel special.[/QUOTE

You are right on.
Racism has been around since the beginning of time, Slavery as well. Slavery still exists in Africa. I m not saying it’s ok but it is unfortunately a part of the human condition.

[perrjojo]

Wrong again. ;)

I obviously love this country much more than you (and a whole lot of others), because at least I'm willing to speak up...about making it fair and equal for ALL.

This is the problem. Not everyone will ever agree on what constitutes fair and equal.

[jimjamuser]

Can we have the Morses ( They'll take the money out of "The Bond" and "the Amenity Fees") to build a huge wall around The Villages!
That gave me a good laugh. Keep up the good work!

[yabbadu]

I really hope your not my neighbor!


I agree........:bigbow:

[jimjamuser]

Sending employers of undocumented workers to prison for a long time, will do more than any other single thing...to stop the problem or allow it in a humane way.

Then watch how many anti-undocumented workers screech and cry... about how much their food and other products have increased.

Thereby requiring even more of these industries to go to countries, where someone makes $15 a day...so as to satisfy the profit demand of their stockholders.


To those who employee undocumented workers, I say...LOCK THEM UP!

Even if that means the flowers here in TV...don't get changed as much. ;)


Best humane solution.

[retiredguy123]

And millions of those here illegally have fake social security cards, and get legitimate jobs and pay actual real federal income taxes, and social security tax, and medicare tax, and in some cases, state and local income tax as well.

Why do they come? Because they are FROM countries that are even worse than we are. That doesn't make us any good at all. It just means we're not as bad as Venezuela, Panama, parts of Mexico, Columbia, the rest of South America, or Syria or other parts of the world that are war-torn.

America isn't great. It's merely "not as bad" as many other places.
Please explain. Millions of illegal immigrants have a "fake" Social Security card, a legitimate job, and pay taxes to the IRS? I know the IRS is not perfect, but I find it difficult to believe they are that incompetent to ignore millions of bogus taxpayer accounts without question. Are millions of people using someone else's SS account and depositing money into their account for someone else's benefit? Whose address do they use? Or, are the SS numbers just made up and the IRS accepts payments into an account that doesn't exist? And, if the SS number is made up, I doubt that the employer would be sending money to the IRS for deposit into an employee's account that doesn't exist. I think they would just keep the money. I also doubt that an illegal immigrant would be filing a tax return using a fake SS number.

[Pamelah]

It's sad that you could not detect the sarcasm dripping from that sentence, even after it has been explained several times in this thread.
And yet another one did not see your sarcasm. Try a different tact next time.

[Antique lady]

Hope is irrepressible. Hope is why immigrants braved the ocean and the processing at Ellis Island. Hope is why so many still come, to work and send money to impoverished family in countries of their birth.

Hope is what makes the Statue of Liberty a beacon of promise.

Hope is something we all have in common.... I understand why they continue to come and why in some cases in the face of unequal treatment and dwarfed opportunity people who are challenged by an imperfect system still have hope.....

[GoodLife]

And yet another one did not see your sarcasm. Try a different tact next time.

It's try a different tack dear.

"To create or decode sarcasm, both the expressers and recipients of sarcasm need to overcome the contradiction (i.e., psychological distance) between the literal and actual meanings of the sarcastic expressions," said author Francesca Gino. "This is a process that activates and is facilitated by abstraction, which in turn promotes creative thinking."

[Andyb]

No, they have learned that we offer free housing, food stamps and other entitlements, so they are coming in droves.
Does anyone pay attention to our deficit that funds this? Going to be real ugly one day.

[Bay Kid]

No, they have learned that we offer free housing, food stamps and other entitlements, so they are coming in droves.
Does anyone pay attention to our deficit that funds this? Going to be real ugly one day.

So true. Worth the risk of life all the free (not, we must pay) stuff.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

"To create or decode sarcasm, both the expressers and recipients of sarcasm need to overcome the contradiction (i.e., psychological distance) between the literal and actual meanings of the sarcastic expressions," said author Francesca Gino. "This is a process that activates and is facilitated by abstraction, which in turn promotes creative thinking."

I also like to use sarcasm sometimes to "promote creative thinking." But alas I have found during my many years of participating in online chats that many people seem to take things literally - at face value. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing, but I wonder what it says about a predisposition to think creatively.

Did you know that gullible is not in the dictionary?

[ColdNoMore]

I also like to use sarcasm sometimes to "promote creative thinking." But alas I have found during my many years of participating in online chats that many people seem to take things literally - at face value. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing, but I wonder what it says about a predisposition to think creatively.

Did you know that gullible is not in the dictionary?

Now THAT is an excellent example...of being "gullible." :1rotfl:

GULLIBLE (don't click here, or you'll be electrocuted...:D) (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/gullible?s=t)


gullibleor gul·la·ble [ guhl-uh-buhl ]

adjective

- easily deceived or cheated.

[OhioBuckeye]

That gave me a good laugh. Keep up the good work!

Then we can call it, “Morse’s Town”, instead of “Jones Town”, LOL.

[edomit]

Statue of Liberty says it all. And, no, it’s not obsolete.