Numbers

[GoodLife]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.

[Stu from NYC]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.

Thanks for the post, but the usual suspects will be coming and criticizing you for your post.

[GoodLife]

Thanks for the post, but the usual suspects will be coming and criticizing you for your post.

Actually they are learning it's better to stay away :coolsmiley:

84487

[anothersteve]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.

Someone will cry and break it down to percentages. Actual numbers will never float
Steve

[GoodLife]

Someone will cry and break it down to percentages. Actual numbers will never float
Steve

Let them try, I'd love to see someone calculate the percentages, especially on those last two numbers. I might have to help them with some basic division though.

[Stu from NYC]

Will be a very interesting thread.

[GoodLife]

Will be a very interesting thread.

I doubt it, they can't spin these numbers and don't want a "conversation" about them and so they continue to play the race card and hope for more riots.

[GoPacers]

Let them try, I'd love to see someone calculate the percentages, especially on those last two numbers. I might have to help them with some basic division though.

It's shooting ducks at the town carnival but enlighten us as to which of your numbers have anything to do with police brutality? At best, two of the numbers could be due to police brutality but nothing you've presented implies correlation or causation. Most of your minions won't understand that but I appreciate that you might, you might be a Porsche owner?

[600th Photo Sq]

I did a Google search on this very subject and the stats do not add up. I researched it all ways and the black vs white doesn't add up that blacks are being singled out.

Even % wise all this is hyped up. I took the time to research this and it is false reporting.

The person who killed George Floyd has been arrested and so he should be, I have watched all of the videos.

However the aftermath played into the hands of BLM, and Antifa, who were waiting for the right opportunity and they did a masterful job in creating violence's.

So go ahead who fall for the lies do your homework like I did. Really really, sad what has happened.

It will unfortunately change our Country.

The organizers that I mentioned were just waiting for the opportunity and they pulled it off.

Better wake up.

There are well organized factions who want to bring the USA down.

[GoodLife]

It's shooting ducks at the town carnival but enlighten us as to which of your numbers have anything to do with police brutality? At best, two of the numbers could be due to police brutality but nothing you've presented implies correlation or causation. Most of your minions won't understand that but I appreciate that you might, you might be a Porsche owner?

Not sure I understand your question as I stated in the OP that I don't see widespread police brutality in the numbers. The race baiters will say that police arrest and hassle blacks more, and my response is sure, blacks commit a large percentage of crimes so of course they are going to interact with police more often. I see racism and a crime problem in the black on white violence number, which is a much bigger problem than police brutality.

Yes I have a Porsche, I like nice cars. :)

[600th Photo Sq]

I am along with others still waiting for a response .

I did my homework.

I am retired and have patience .

[anothersteve]

, you might be a Porsche owner?
Enlighten us minions, what does owning a Porsche have to do with anything?
Steve

[zonerboy]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 20196

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.
Just curious as to the source(es) of the numbers mentioned here. They certainly do not support the allegations of anti-black prejudice by police officers.

[manaboutown]

Just curious as to the source(es) of the numbers mentioned here. They certainly do not support the allegations of anti-black prejudice by police officers.

Interracial Violent Victimizations (Excluding Homicide) Between Blacks And Whites (2018)‬
‪Total: 593,598‬
‪Committed By Blacks Against Whites: 537,204 (approx. 90%)‬
‪Committed By Whites Against Blacks: 56,394 (less than 10%)‬
‪--Bureau of Justice Statistics‬

[J1ceasar]

If you really want statistics Google Fbi.com Uniform Crime reporting . However please note the crime statistics on blacks it's going to be extremely less than reality because major cities like Chicago have strict reporting rules not to report race and it's the fault excuse me of political parties. The numbers however I do count is that a proximately 95% crime against blacks are done by blacks whereas violent crime against whites about 80% is done by what

[GoPacers]

Not sure I understand your question as I stated in the OP that I don't see widespread police brutality in the numbers. The race baiters will say that police arrest and hassle blacks more, and my response is sure, blacks commit a large percentage of crimes so of course they are going to interact with police more often. I see racism and a crime problem in the black on white violence number, which is a much bigger problem than police brutality.

Let's take a look at what police brutality actually is:

"Police brutality or police violence is legally defined as a civil rights violation where officers exercise undue or excessive force against a subject. This includes, but is not limited to, physical or verbal harassment, physical or mental injury, property damage, and death."

You presented a series of data points to substantiate that police brutality is not that significant of a problem.



Crime rates for white on black or black on white have nothing to do with police brutality.

The number of police officers killed has nothing to do with police brutality.

The number of people killed during the protests has nothing to do with police brutality.



Quantifying police brutality is actually very difficult. There are not any obvious and easy measures as each interaction between an officer and a civilian is somewhat unique and dependent on the circumstances of the interaction. In addition, the reporting is often dependent on the honesty/integrity of the officer(s) involved. This is one of the main reasons for bodycams. As we've seen in the last few weeks, if not for cameras many interactions between police and civilians would have been mistakenly reported (blatant lying).

Typical measures for police brutality attempt to measure the uses of force in various situations to see if a jurisdiction (or officers) have a greater prevelance to use various tactics in situations where those tactics may not have been warranted.

Here is a link to a very long and detailed article on the use of force by police in six different districts.

Measuring the Amount of Force Used By and Against the Police in Six Jurisdictions (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/176330-2.pdf)

Bottom line, the data you referenced has little to nothing to do with validating that police brutality does/does not exist. To your original post - I would therefore agree that you would see little evidence of police brutality in the numbers since the numbers quoted are random facts that are unrelated to police brutality.

However, my point is that substantiating that police brutality doesn't exist or is not the problem as you state is not a conclusion that can be drawn from the numbers proffered.

[coalminer]

Obviously you are seeing a lot of problems. That dosent mean we should ignore the fact that our tax dollars are paying thugs in some cases and giving good honest policemen a bad name.

[kenoc7]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.

If you can't see you haven't watched Floyd's murder or the 75 yea- old in Buffalo or the two college kids in Atalanta and the list could go on and on. Open your eyes.

[GoPacers]

Obviously you are seeing a lot of problems. That dosent mean we should ignore the fact that our tax dollars are paying thugs in some cases and giving good honest policemen a bad name.

BINGO! How many millions of dollars has Derek Chauvin cost this country with his actions? The Floyd family will likely get a huge settlment. The protests and demonstrations have cost municipality and state governments millions of dollars. Business owners and insurance companies will be out millions to rebuild looted buildings.

How many honest policemen now have to defend themselves against unwarranted attacks from civilians and local governments?

Derek Chauvin was on the taxpayer funded payroll for years. The real question is how did that happen and how do we ensure we weed out all the rest of the Derek Chauvins in the future?

[Ashley from UK]

So parking your numbers to one side, the result has crossed the pond and we have seen vandals in the UK piggyback. But the cause is also flawed.

In the UK we see people bemoaning slavery, but a question, how many actually know anything about the roots of slavery? Yes it was terrible that the Europeans took people from Africa, but they were bought from their own people. Slavery was not a white invention. Slaves were created to pay debts or family used as security for a debt. The Europeans merely bought these debts and security, and slaves were given the opportunity to buy their freedom. OK I accept I am also on some dodgy ground here because the whole system was seriously abused, Europeans were guilty of creating the breading ground that resulted in Africans enslaving their own people and selling them to the Europeans so I don't for one second say whites hands are clean. But let us also consider the descendants. No matter how bad some may say they feel or are treated today, are they any worse in USA or UK than if they had stayed in Africa with the troubles the continent suffers, droughts, infighting. etc. etc.

My personal experience is that anyone who has to refer to colour is using it as an excuse for lack of ability or willingness to try and better themselves. So few of us are born with a silver spoon but hard work and sacrifice and a dash of luck and we succeed in whatever we do, whether music, sport, school, work, military, nursing. You name it hard work is the only thing that matters, the only thing that will open or close doors... not the colour of your skin.

I will conclude with Mohamad Ali who said something along the lines of before we talk about racism and WoB lets sort ourselves out as most crime is BoB....

[diamond2005]

I did a Google search on this very subject and the stats do not add up. I researched it all ways and the black vs white doesn't add up that blacks are being singled out.

Even % wise all this is hyped up. I took the time to research this and it is false reporting.

The person who killed George Floyd has been arrested and so he should be, I have watched all of the videos.

However the aftermath played into the hands of BLM, and Antifa, who were waiting for the right opportunity and they did a masterful job in creating violence's.

So go ahead who fall for the lies do your homework like I did. Really really, sad what has happened.

It will unfortunately change our Country.

The organizers that I mentioned were just waiting for the opportunity and they pulled it off.

Better wake up.

There are well organized factions who want to bring the USA down.

Give me some numbers, if you did your research. Surely, you did not just take someone’s word for what you are saying. Numbers, numbers!

[Girlcopper]

Thanks for the post, but the usual suspects will be coming and criticizing you for your post.

So true. Everyone needs to look at the statistics. More blacks are killed by blacks. There is major talk about disbanding police depts and some are already in the works. Better start thinking how youre going to protect yourself, your property and family.

[rlcooper70]

Sir ... no offense ... those numbers you present are not good .... why are you okay with "unarmed" black and white people being killed by police? Isn't the point of those numbers really to say "we can do better America"? Should we stand up and just say "do better"?

Are the police unions at fault for protecting people they know to be racist?

Of course we can do better .... for heaven's sake ... let's just say it.

[Viperguy]

The truth hurts and will never be honestly reported by the media. The PC culture has taken over. Stand by for more and more next year.

[Swoop]

If you can't see you haven't watched Floyd's murder or the 75 yea- old in Buffalo or the two college kids in Atalanta and the list could go on and on. Open your eyes.

Have you watched the Tony Timpa video?

[Stu from NYC]

So true. Everyone needs to look at the statistics. More blacks are killed by blacks. There is major talk about disbanding police depts and some are already in the works. Better start thinking how youre going to protect yourself, your property and family.

Lets have community policing in Minneapolis. Perhaps the looters will help out.

What will happen is if businesses cannot make money they will shut their doors and take their jobs with them.

People will not feel safe and will leave the city in droves.

And than the looters in charge will blame everyone else for being racist and causing the problem in the first place.

[Travelingal702]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.
Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but if people are successful in getting cities to defund the police, what does that mean? Does it mean no more police presence in that city? Who will "police" the thieves, the domestic batterers, the speeders, etc.?

[WesMan]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.
You are Correct

[Warren]

If you can't see you haven't watched Floyd's murder or the 75 yea- old in Buffalo or the two college kids in Atalanta and the list could go on and on. Open your eyes.

You don't go deep enough on this "racism" issue. It is not about the color of one's skin, it about the quality and equality of education. The problem goes back to when, in many cases, the color of your skin or your sex determined if and to what extent your were educated. In this country and many other countries, the "rising tide" has not raised all boats. Poorly educated parents create a pathway for poorly educated children. it is a vicious circle. I thank god, every day, for the education my parents "made" me get. Until we solve the education parity problem nothing changes. There are three basic needs: food, clothing and shelter. If you can't earn it then you get it any way you can. You steal it, or expect "someone" to provide it for you. Bottom line here is: the "haves" do not want to associate with the "have nots". Nothing to do with the color of their skin.

[ColdNoMore]

Let's take a look at what police brutality actually is:

"Police brutality or police violence is legally defined as a civil rights violation where officers exercise undue or excessive force against a subject. This includes, but is not limited to, physical or verbal harassment, physical or mental injury, property damage, and death."

You presented a series of data points to substantiate that police brutality is not that significant of a problem.



Crime rates for white on black or black on white have nothing to do with police brutality.

The number of police officers killed has nothing to do with police brutality.

The number of people killed during the protests has nothing to do with police brutality.



Quantifying police brutality is actually very difficult. There are not any obvious and easy measures as each interaction between an officer and a civilian is somewhat unique and dependent on the circumstances of the interaction. In addition, the reporting is often dependent on the honesty/integrity of the officer(s) involved. This is one of the main reasons for bodycams. As we've seen in the last few weeks, if not for cameras many interactions between police and civilians would have been mistakenly reported (blatant lying).

Typical measures for police brutality attempt to measure the uses of force in various situations to see if a jurisdiction (or officers) have a greater prevelance to use various tactics in situations where those tactics may not have been warranted.

Here is a link to a very long and detailed article on the use of force by police in six different districts.

Measuring the Amount of Force Used By and Against the Police in Six Jurisdictions (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/176330-2.pdf)

Bottom line, the data you referenced has little to nothing to do with validating that police brutality does/does not exist. To your original post - I would therefore agree that you would see little evidence of police brutality in the numbers since the numbers quoted are random facts that are unrelated to police brutality.

However, my point is that substantiating that police brutality doesn't exist or is not the problem as you state is not a conclusion that can be drawn from the numbers proffered.

While those who will stick with their made up definition of police brutality/excessive force will never change their minds, as you so aptly point out...it CAN'T be judged solely by deaths.

Thanks for trying though. :thumbup:

[ColdNoMore]

BINGO! How many millions of dollars has Derek Chauvin cost this country with his actions? The Floyd family will likely get a huge settlment. The protests and demonstrations have cost municipality and state governments millions of dollars. Business owners and insurance companies will be out millions to rebuild looted buildings.

How many honest policemen now have to defend themselves against unwarranted attacks from civilians and local governments?

Derek Chauvin was on the taxpayer funded payroll for years. The real question is how did that happen and how do we ensure we weed out all the rest of the Derek Chauvins in the future?

Excellent question. :thumbup:

[GoodLife]

Bottom line, the data you referenced has little to nothing to do with validating that police brutality does/does not exist. To your original post - I would therefore agree that you would see little evidence of police brutality in the numbers since the numbers quoted are random facts that are unrelated to police brutality.

By Jove you've got it! I presented a list of factual numbers in which no evidence of police brutality can be seen, unless maybe Police killing of unarmed blacks and whites is a form of Police brutality.

Also you have correctly identified me as a Porsche owner.

Congrats!!

PS This guy likes Porsches too :icon_wink:

84491

[Guitarman1951]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.
Just amazing that the "movement" doesn't really care about facts. That would really be an inconvenient truth wouldn't it!?

[600th Photo Sq]

If you can't see you haven't watched Floyd's murder or the 75 yea- old in Buffalo or the two college kids in Atalanta and the list could go on and on. Open your eyes.

The Mayor of Buffalo actually defended the Police officers. The person who was pushed was warned multiple times to leave long before the Police arrived.

The person is a known agitator for years.

[junction29]

So parking your numbers to one side, the result has crossed the pond and we have seen vandals in the UK piggyback. But the cause is also flawed.

In the UK we see people bemoaning slavery, but a question, how many actually know anything about the roots of slavery? Yes it was terrible that the Europeans took people from Africa, but they were bought from their own people. Slavery was not a white invention. Slaves were created to pay debts or family used as security for a debt. The Europeans merely bought these debts and security, and slaves were given the opportunity to buy their freedom. OK I accept I am also on some dodgy ground here because the whole system was seriously abused, Europeans were guilty of creating the breading ground that resulted in Africans enslaving their own people and selling them to the Europeans so I don't for one second say whites hands are clean. But let us also consider the descendants. No matter how bad some may say they feel or are treated today, are they any worse in USA or UK than if they had stayed in Africa with the troubles the continent suffers, droughts, infighting. etc. etc.

My personal experience is that anyone who has to refer to colour is using it as an excuse for lack of ability or willingness to try and better themselves. So few of us are born with a silver spoon but hard work and sacrifice and a dash of luck and we succeed in whatever we do, whether music, sport, school, work, military, nursing. You name it hard work is the only thing that matters, the only thing that will open or close doors... not the colour of your skin.

I will conclude with Mohamad Ali who said something along the lines of before we talk about racism and WoB lets sort ourselves out as most crime is BoB....

Well said and a historical fact that is often conveniently overlooked, as is the fact that slavery in many forms is sadly, still prevalent in many societies today. 👿

Martin Luther King also made similar comments to those made by Mohammed Ali 👍

The solution is not simple, nor achievable short term, but long term educational aspirations, not violence is the way forward.

[600th Photo Sq]

Just amazing that the "movement" doesn't really care about facts. That would really be an inconvenient truth wouldn't it!?

I agree, but honestly trying giving facts to these people is a complete waste of time.

They simply ignore the truth and go on trying to ram their ideology into peoples minds.

I would love to see them go to Venezuela for a reality trip.

[Lindamct]

Thank you. These facts are easy to find. I wish our fake media could show them.

[ldivens]

facts don't matter when the purpose is to play on emotions and the goal is to get a mob angry, they are just pawns

[Byte1]

Sir ... no offense ... those numbers you present are not good .... why are you okay with "unarmed" black and white people being killed by police? Isn't the point of those numbers really to say "we can do better America"? Should we stand up and just say "do better"?

Are the police unions at fault for protecting people they know to be racist?

Of course we can do better .... for heaven's sake ... let's just say it.

When you look at a stat regarding unarmed killed by the police, try to imagine how many arrests are made in any given hour in this country. Also take into consideration how many police are killed or injured in the line of duty and tell me how that does not put a lot of stress on their job and performance. At night or even in the day, a resisting person may be beating the life out of a lone officer of the law and shot in self defense. At night, someone being approached by a police officer in suspicious circumstances may be reaching for a phone and the officer might shoot thinking that he is protecting himself. When looking at stats regarding "unarmed" deaths, do some research and see how many of the officers were found at fault after the investigation.
Police are NOT the enemy, no matter what some try to make you think. No matter how much diversity training they get, a police contact with some are construed as "racist" and the same contact with others is deemed just proper police procedure.

[ColdNoMore]

facts don't matter when the purpose is to play on emotions and the goal is to get a mob angry, they are just pawns

That's the primary purpose in having rallies...which works well for some people.

[Byte1]

BINGO! How many millions of dollars has Derek Chauvin cost this country with his actions? The Floyd family will likely get a huge settlment. The protests and demonstrations have cost municipality and state governments millions of dollars. Business owners and insurance companies will be out millions to rebuild looted buildings.

How many honest policemen now have to defend themselves against unwarranted attacks from civilians and local governments?

Derek Chauvin was on the taxpayer funded payroll for years. The real question is how did that happen and how do we ensure we weed out all the rest of the Derek Chauvins in the future?

Granted the officers will ultimately cost the tax payers a lot of money. Floyd has already cost the tax payers a lot of money too. You can look at it from both sides and also agree with both views.

What is a REAL shame is retired Capt Dorn being murdered under unnecessary circumstances. A crime of avarice camouflaged as a civil protest. Where's the justice in that?

[billethkid]

The police and what they do every day is serve and protect.
More than 90% (pick a number you like it will not be significantly different), do this very effectively every 24/7.

This current incident is attempting to create a general, across the board, hate based on the 10% (most likely much less) who violate their position.

Protest? No problem.

There is no latitude for outright violation of citizens rights by rioting, property destruction and looting.....NONE!

[600th Photo Sq]

Give me some numbers, if you did your research. Surely, you did not just take someone’s word for what you are saying. Numbers, numbers!

Google How many crimes whites vs blacks in 2019. There is plenty of information on various web sites.

I'm not into getting into a debate. I am sick and tired of this. The police overreacted and those responsible will be held accountable. In court by a jury.

Then the cowards who killed, looted, burned down business's, most will get away with it.

As for the victims ? Justice will not be served.

The secondary pain and suffering will go on for years to come.

[Stu from NYC]

Google How many crimes whites vs blacks in 2019. There is plenty of information on various web sites.

I'm not into getting into a debate. I am sick and tired of this. The police overreacted and those responsible will be held accountable. In court by a jury.

Then the cowards who killed, looted, burned down business's, most will get away with it.

As for the victims ? Justice will not be served.

The secondary pain and suffering will go on for years to come.

How does anyone think this is the way to end racism? MLK did a lot without violence.

[Fuzz323]

I was not going to comment on this thread but I will stick my two cents in. Ninety nine percent of the folks who are screaming about police brutality have NEVER been involved it a situation where you are fighting for your life. There is no way to explain this - I have been there. (State Police - 26 yrs)

I have been thinking for some time that the police - ALL of them - should just take perhaps a two month vacation. Just think of the wonderful things that could happen. You think the riots and theft and assault you are seeing now are bad. The morons that want to defund the police and have citizen patrols have NEVER been involved in what they will allow to happen. :ohdear:

The Thin Blue Line may not be always perfect but its all you have so that you can keep what you own and gets a nights sleep in your own bed. .........and away we go!

[MandoMan]

What brutalizes law enforcement personnel? They aren’t all problematic. Many weren’t a problem when they were trained. Most didn’t become cops in hope of being brutal. I think a lot of cops found themselves becoming more and more abusive or aggressive as they experienced aggression against themselves. This is NOT a matter of ethnicity—it happens in all ethnicities—but the more it happens, the more it may change police behavior. A cop assigned a neighborhood with a high crime rate is especially likely to become aggressive.

Consider this. You are a new cop, with good intentions. Perhaps you have a degree in criminal justice. If you are assigned to a neighborhood with little crime, where people treat you with respect, turn to you for help, and thank you, you prosper and you become wiser and more helpful as the years pass. However, if you are assigned to a high crime neighborhood where people lie to you all the time, sneer at you all the time, see you as the enemy rather than as a rescuer, where people curse you to your face, where you are in fear of your lives, where you see criminals breaking laws and hurting people all the time, but know that if you arrest these people, they will be released in hours, then there’s a much better chance that you will become aggressive. Who can blame cops for learning to hate criminals? Who can blame cops for developing a sense of who is a criminal and who isn’t? It may seem unfair to many of us, but that’s how the mind works, how it develops.

I suspect that most “police brutality” can be traced to cops who were brutalized by the people against whom they now show brutality. Some many have come to associate that with skin color, but bear in mind that the problem is found among African-American cops, too. If all cops were treated with respect, many more would treat others with respect.

[ColdNoMore]

I was not going to comment on this thread but I will stick my two cents in. Ninety nine percent of the folks who are screaming about police brutality have NEVER been involved it a situation where you are fighting for your life. There is no way to explain this - I have been there. (State Police - 26 yrs)

I have been thinking for some time that the police - ALL of them - should just take perhaps a two month vacation. Just think of the wonderful things that could happen. You think the riots and theft and assault you are seeing now are bad. The morons that want to defund the police and have citizen patrols have NEVER been involved in what they will allow to happen. :ohdear:

The Thin Blue Line may not be always perfect but its all you have so that you can keep what you own and gets a nights sleep in your own bed. .........and away we go!

Or as another/better idea, how about the overwhelming number of good LEO's (and their unions), grow a spine...and quit getting the bad cops reinstated?

Wouldn't that work?

[Antique lady]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.
Visit the FBI 2018 crime table. For murder they record the race of the victims and race of the offender.

For 2018 they show a total of 3,315 white murder victims. Race of offender in those murders, 2677 white, 514 African American, 61 other, 63 unknown.

For 2018 they show 2925 African American murder victims. Race of offenders in those murders 234 white, 2600 African American, 17 other, 74 unknown.

[arbajeda]

Attribution, please, like links to web pages. What are the sources of your data? Unbiased information these days is as rare as lips on a chicken but I suppose it could be found.

[regas56]

I have just spent time reading on the CDC and FBI homicide data base websites and I just do not see facts supporting systemic racism when it comes to murder statistics. Yes the # 1 cause of death in young black men ages 15-44 is murder while white men it is at # 4 but a whopping 94% of that murder is black on black and gang related AND 97% of the murder is committed in blue cities and has been since the 70'S.. I've lived my entire life in the suburbs of St Louis County where the Murder rate is around 3%, you can drive safely for hours North, South and West and that number doesn't change, HOWEVER, if I drive 15 minutes East that number explodes to 37%.. We St Louisans get so tired of hearing how we are the Murder Capital of the US when it's actually one little sliver of St Louis that makes up for 97% of that Murder where most of us avoid like the plague. St Louis City pop. 300,000 murder rate 37% St Louis County and surrounding areas population 2 MILLION murder rate 3%... Obviously poverty, gangs and drugs are a dangerous formula and IMHO until we get politics out of the equation these statistics will never change..

[Jacob85]

I have learned it does no good to present conflicting evidence or opinions as most people only hear and process what backs up their belief system

[2daisy]

:coolsmiley::bigbow:1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.

[600th Photo Sq]

I was not going to comment on this thread but I will stick my two cents in. Ninety nine percent of the folks who are screaming about police brutality have NEVER been involved it a situation where you are fighting for your life. There is no way to explain this - I have been there. (State Police - 26 yrs)

I have been thinking for some time that the police - ALL of them - should just take perhaps a two month vacation. Just think of the wonderful things that could happen. You think the riots and theft and assault you are seeing now are bad. The morons that want to defund the police and have citizen patrols have NEVER been involved in what they will allow to happen. :ohdear:

The Thin Blue Line may not be always perfect but its all you have so that you can keep what you own and gets a nights sleep in your own bed. .........and away we go!

I completely agree with you. What these clowns are calling for is crazy. All the while ignoring how well organized the militants were and actually still are.

Strategically placing containers of bricks, rocks, plastic bottles filled with cement, to throw at the police. Many, law enforcement personnel were seriously injured.

And yes some have died.

It is madness. Defund the Police ? You people have no idea what the consequences would be. What on earth are you people thinking.

There are some who regularly post negative comments regarding law enforcement and for that you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I can't post here what I really want to say but needless to say it isn't pleasant !

[roscoguy]

In the UK we see people bemoaning slavery, but a question, how many actually know anything about the roots of slavery? Yes it was terrible that the Europeans took people from Africa, but they were bought from their own people. Slavery was not a white invention. Slaves were created to pay debts or family used as security for a debt. The Europeans merely bought these debts and security, and slaves were given the opportunity to buy their freedom. OK I accept I am also on some dodgy ground here because the whole system was seriously abused, Europeans were guilty of creating the breading ground that resulted in Africans enslaving their own people and selling them to the Europeans so I don't for one second say whites hands are clean. But let us also consider the descendants. No matter how bad some may say they feel or are treated today, are they any worse in USA or UK than if they had stayed in Africa with the troubles the continent suffers, droughts, infighting. etc. etc.

My personal experience is that anyone who has to refer to colour is using it as an excuse for lack of ability or willingness to try and better themselves. So few of us are born with a silver spoon but hard work and sacrifice and a dash of luck and we succeed in whatever we do, whether music, sport, school, work, military, nursing. You name it hard work is the only thing that matters, the only thing that will open or close doors... not the colour of your skin.

You're not really using this factoid as an excuse for slavery, are you??? This is a blatant attempt to lessen European & American guilt and blame for purchasing human beings for use as slaves. And as far as who 'invented' it, according to many sources, it was originally the Portuguese that landed in Africa, at least some of whom had the express intent of capturing & kidnapping people to be used as forced labor. To imply otherwise is akin to saying that there would be no market for illegal drugs if there were no sellers. It is the demand that created the market - in BOTH cases.

Even though SOME slaves were allowed to buy their freedom, saying that Europeans "merely bought ... debts and security" is ridiculously implying that it was actually a humane thing to do and that the "system" was somehow meant to be beneficial to all. Absolute nonsense! These people were bought and treated as property, with no human rights whatsoever.

That you further opine that the modern descendants of the slaves are better off than if their ancestors hadn't been enslaved is specious at best. This logic completely ignores the forced labor, beatings, maiming, rape & murder that many of the slaves endured for hundreds of years before their descendants could live in the conditions of today. Please take a closer look at the history of blacks in this country after the end of the Civil War to see the ingrained, systemic & violent racism that existed in this country, some of which continues today.

Your "personal experience" appears to be that of a white European without an actual clue as to what opportunities are available to those who grew up dealing with discrimination in education, health care and employment. Hard work doesn't tell the whole story.

[sloanst]

I am curious. You say that the stats don't add up. Then show the math.

[GoPacers]

PS This guy likes Porsches too :icon_wink:

84491

:thumbup:

[sloanst]

In 2017, the year of latest most complete data, the population of US was ~325.72 million people.
The population break down by race in millions.
White 249.62
Black 43.5
American Indian 4.1
Asian 18.99
Pacific Islander .79
Multi-Racial 8.72

Now lets look at murders committed in 2017 since I am focusing on deaths.
White 4188
Black 5025
American Indian 108
Asian 127
Pacific Islander 20
Multi-Racial N/A

How about people that were killed by the police in 2017 by race.
White 457
Black 233
Hispanic 179
Other 44
Unknown 84

How many police officers are killed in the line of duty in 2017?
46 killed. 42 by firearms, 3 by car used as a weapon, 1 was stabbed.

You do the math.

Crimes by Race
FBI — Table 43 (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43)

Population by Race
• Population by race in the U.S. 2000-2018 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/183489/population-of-the-us-by-ethnicity-since-2000/)

Police officers killed in 2017
2017 LEOKA Line-of-Duty Death Statistics Released — FBI (https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2017-leoka-line-of-duty-death-statistics-released-051018)

Candace Owen on George Floyd
Candace Owens: "I DO NOT support George Floyd!" & Here's Why! | Durtty Daily - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtPfoEvNJ74)

[Marylynn]

Correct. It’s not. According to FBI statistics 99% of police shootings are deemed justified. In 2016 alone almost 90% of black murders were committed by blacks. The basis of the why blacks commit the greater majority of violent crime while only being 13% of the population is that 70% of black births are to single mothers. 30% for white births. That means these children live in poverty. Poverty breeds crime. This high single mother birth rate for blacks is what should be addressed. The Obamas had eight years to address this and did not speak one word to it. That was a tragically lost opportunity.

[sloanst]

I listened to Shelby Steele and Bob Woodson last night on this subject. Their argument is there is not systemic racism. If there was, we wouldn't have elected Barack Obama twice, we wouldn't have the number of African-American legislators that we have at all levels of government. We wouldn't have the number of black bureaucrats in all levels of government that currently exist. Their argument comes down the areas of the country that are under one party rule. One party has controlled the power and the money for decades and nothing has improved. It fact, it has gotten worse. Now, many people that live in those cities, those areas are decimated and the call to de-fund the police is rising. What do they hope to accomplish when anyone with open eyes can see that crime is going to get a lot worse in those areas where that one party rules, if they are successful at de-funding the police. If you don't know Shelby Steele then listen. Area 45: Shelby Steele On Race And Victimization In America | Hoover Institution[/url
Bob Woodson: [url]https://woodsoncenter.org/ (https://www.hoover.org/research/area-45-shelby-steele-race-and-victimization-america)

[GoodLife]

You're not really using this factoid as an excuse for slavery, are you??? This is a blatant attempt to lessen European & American guilt and blame for purchasing human beings for use as slaves. And as far as who 'invented' it, according to many sources, it was originally the Portuguese that landed in Africa, at least some of whom had the express intent of capturing & kidnapping people to be used as forced labor. To imply otherwise is akin to saying that there would be no market for illegal drugs if there were no sellers. It is the demand that created the market - in BOTH cases.

Slavery existed long before America was even discovered and Europeans began their trade. Slavery existed in the first civilizations like the Sumer in Mesopotamia (3500 BC)
Slavery has been inflicted by just about every race and religion on the planet. Africans, Caucasians, Asians, even American Natives had slaves. You'd be surprised that slavery still exists in several countries today, and they aren't run by white people.

You are making a blatant attempt to blame only whites for slavery. Do some more research.

[cleanwater]

You miss the main point. This murder was more like a public Lynching than murder. It was done in the public in front of a crowd and took minutes to complete the killing. A public lynching in the year 2020 In the United States is pretty frightening.

[billethkid]

You miss the main point. This murder was more like a public Lynching than murder. It was done in the public in front of a crowd and took minutes to complete the killing. A public lynching in the year 2020 In the United States is pretty frightening.

That's one opinion.
Hangings were predetermined and intentional with death the known and sought outcome.
That will most likely never be a without a doubt jury outcome in this case.

[GoodLife]

You miss the main point. This murder was more like a public Lynching than murder. It was done in the public in front of a crowd and took minutes to complete the killing. A public lynching in the year 2020 In the United States is pretty frightening.

So are 18 and counting public murders during Floyd protests. Many for a pair of shoes or a flatscreen.

[ColdNoMore]

You miss the main point. This murder was more like a public Lynching than murder. It was done in the public in front of a crowd and took minutes to complete the killing. A public lynching in the year 2020 In the United States is pretty frightening.

Even more frightening (and disgusting) are those...that don't see a problem with it. :ohdear:

[jimjamuser]

It's shooting ducks at the town carnival but enlighten us as to which of your numbers have anything to do with police brutality? At best, two of the numbers could be due to police brutality but nothing you've presented implies correlation or causation. Most of your minions won't understand that but I appreciate that you might, you might be a Porsche owner?
A Porsche owner-that conveys instance credibility.

[jimjamuser]

I did a Google search on this very subject and the stats do not add up. I researched it all ways and the black vs white doesn't add up that blacks are being singled out.

Even % wise all this is hyped up. I took the time to research this and it is false reporting.

The person who killed George Floyd has been arrested and so he should be, I have watched all of the videos.

However the aftermath played into the hands of BLM, and Antifa, who were waiting for the right opportunity and they did a masterful job in creating violence's.

So go ahead who fall for the lies do your homework like I did. Really really, sad what has happened.

It will unfortunately change our Country.

The organizers that I mentioned were just waiting for the opportunity and they pulled it off.

Better wake up.

There are well organized factions who want to bring the USA down.
Organized factions might be black, white, or blue? Or red or blue?

[jimjamuser]

I did a Google search on this very subject and the stats do not add up. I researched it all ways and the black vs white doesn't add up that blacks are being singled out.

Even % wise all this is hyped up. I took the time to research this and it is false reporting.

The person who killed George Floyd has been arrested and so he should be, I have watched all of the videos.

However the aftermath played into the hands of BLM, and Antifa, who were waiting for the right opportunity and they did a masterful job in creating violence's.

So go ahead who fall for the lies do your homework like I did. Really really, sad what has happened.

It will unfortunately change our Country.

The organizers that I mentioned were just waiting for the opportunity and they pulled it off.

Better wake up.

There are well organized factions who want to bring the USA down.
Change from the top down = dictatorship
Change from the bottom up = democracy and freedom

[jimjamuser]

Just curious as to the source(es) of the numbers mentioned here. They certainly do not support the allegations of anti-black prejudice by police officers.
Psychological studies support racism between groups. Cultural Anthropology supports tribalism. Police are not bulletproof. They have fears of "others". Many times it is just non-police that they fear. It is their tribalism, many times not personal animosity.

[kathy1516]

You don't go deep enough on this "racism" issue. It is not about the color of one's skin, it about the quality and equality of education. The problem goes back to when, in many cases, the color of your skin or your sex determined if and to what extent your were educated. In this country and many other countries, the "rising tide" has not raised all boats. Poorly educated parents create a pathway for poorly educated children. it is a vicious circle. I thank god, every day, for the education my parents "made" me get. Until we solve the education parity problem nothing changes. There are three basic needs: food, clothing and shelter. If you can't earn it then you get it any way you can. You steal it, or expect "someone" to provide it for you. Bottom line here is: the "haves" do not want to associate with the "have nots". Nothing to do with the color of their skin.
I came from poorly educated parents. My father died young, my mother a widow taking care of three young kids ages 6mo to 11 years old. We grew up poor before the culture of handouts and we worked hard to help her out as soon as we were old enough. I put myself through college at night while I worked full time during the day. No advantages given to us.
I’m really tired of hearing about the disadvantaged minorities who grew up with uneducated parents and no opportunities.
This is bunk! Stay in school, stay away from drugs, stay away from crime, work hard, apply all the anger that’s displayed During protests towards self improvement rather than blaming whites for your situation. There are so many programs available to minorities, scholarships, federal grant money. Pull yourself up and make positive change in your own lives.

[jimjamuser]

Not sure I understand your question as I stated in the OP that I don't see widespread police brutality in the numbers. The race baiters will say that police arrest and hassle blacks more, and my response is sure, blacks commit a large percentage of crimes so of course they are going to interact with police more often. I see racism and a crime problem in the black on white violence number, which is a much bigger problem than police brutality.

Yes I have a Porsche, I like nice cars. :)
Oh, Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. My friends all drive Porsches. I MUST make amends!

[jimjamuser]

Let's take a look at what police brutality actually is:

"Police brutality or police violence is legally defined as a civil rights violation where officers exercise undue or excessive force against a subject. This includes, but is not limited to, physical or verbal harassment, physical or mental injury, property damage, and death."

You presented a series of data points to substantiate that police brutality is not that significant of a problem.



Crime rates for white on black or black on white have nothing to do with police brutality.

The number of police officers killed has nothing to do with police brutality.

The number of people killed during the protests has nothing to do with police brutality.



Quantifying police brutality is actually very difficult. There are not any obvious and easy measures as each interaction between an officer and a civilian is somewhat unique and dependent on the circumstances of the interaction. In addition, the reporting is often dependent on the honesty/integrity of the officer(s) involved. This is one of the main reasons for bodycams. As we've seen in the last few weeks, if not for cameras many interactions between police and civilians would have been mistakenly reported (blatant lying).

Typical measures for police brutality attempt to measure the uses of force in various situations to see if a jurisdiction (or officers) have a greater prevelance to use various tactics in situations where those tactics may not have been warranted.

Here is a link to a very long and detailed article on the use of force by police in six different districts.

Measuring the Amount of Force Used By and Against the Police in Six Jurisdictions (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/176330-2.pdf)

Bottom line, the data you referenced has little to nothing to do with validating that police brutality does/does not exist. To your original post - I would therefore agree that you would see little evidence of police brutality in the numbers since the numbers quoted are random facts that are unrelated to police brutality.

However, my point is that substantiating that police brutality doesn't exist or is not the problem as you state is not a conclusion that can be drawn from the numbers proffered.
My man-Indiana Jones. There you go adding intelligence and nuance in a system designed to max out black and white (pun intended) solutions and controversy.

[jimjamuser]

If you can't see you haven't watched Floyd's murder or the 75 yea- old in Buffalo or the two college kids in Atalanta and the list could go on and on. Open your eyes.
Very succinct!

[ColdNoMore]

I came from poorly educated parents. My father died young, my mother a widow taking care of three young kids ages 6mo to 11 years old. We grew up poor before the culture of handouts and we worked hard to help her out as soon as we were old enough. I put myself through college at night while I worked full time during the day. No advantages given to us.
I’m really tired of hearing about the disadvantaged minorities who grew up with uneducated parents and no opportunities.
This is bunk! Stay in school, stay away from drugs, stay away from crime, work hard, apply all the anger that’s displayed During protests towards self improvement rather than blaming whites for your situation. There are so many programs available to minorities, scholarships, federal grant money. Pull yourself up and make positive change in your own lives.

Just curious, but did you do this while also having...black skin?

Do you think your life would have been different at all...if you had?

Do you think any of us who were born white, really have a clue...what it's like to be black?

Other than reading about/talking to, those that are black...that is.


Being Black by Jane Elliott - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yrg7vV4a5o)

[jimjamuser]

BINGO! How many millions of dollars has Derek Chauvin cost this country with his actions? The Floyd family will likely get a huge settlment. The protests and demonstrations have cost municipality and state governments millions of dollars. Business owners and insurance companies will be out millions to rebuild looted buildings.

How many honest policemen now have to defend themselves against unwarranted attacks from civilians and local governments?

Derek Chauvin was on the taxpayer funded payroll for years. The real question is how did that happen and how do we ensure we weed out all the rest of the Derek Chauvins in the future?
The Pace car vs the Porsche. Gentlemen, start your engines! Varroommmm!

[jimjamuser]

So parking your numbers to one side, the result has crossed the pond and we have seen vandals in the UK piggyback. But the cause is also flawed.

In the UK we see people bemoaning slavery, but a question, how many actually know anything about the roots of slavery? Yes it was terrible that the Europeans took people from Africa, but they were bought from their own people. Slavery was not a white invention. Slaves were created to pay debts or family used as security for a debt. The Europeans merely bought these debts and security, and slaves were given the opportunity to buy their freedom. OK I accept I am also on some dodgy ground here because the whole system was seriously abused, Europeans were guilty of creating the breading ground that resulted in Africans enslaving their own people and selling them to the Europeans so I don't for one second say whites hands are clean. But let us also consider the descendants. No matter how bad some may say they feel or are treated today, are they any worse in USA or UK than if they had stayed in Africa with the troubles the continent suffers, droughts, infighting. etc. etc.

My personal experience is that anyone who has to refer to colour is using it as an excuse for lack of ability or willingness to try and better themselves. So few of us are born with a silver spoon but hard work and sacrifice and a dash of luck and we succeed in whatever we do, whether music, sport, school, work, military, nursing. You name it hard work is the only thing that matters, the only thing that will open or close doors... not the colour of your skin.

I will conclude with Mohamad Ali who said something along the lines of before we talk about racism and WoB lets sort ourselves out as most crime is BoB....
Very informative. And I LOVED the Mohammed Ali quote. You go girl!

[jimjamuser]

Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but if people are successful in getting cities to defund the police, what does that mean? Does it mean no more police presence in that city? Who will "police" the thieves, the domestic batterers, the speeders, etc.?
Robotic Police with A.I. decision software. Coming to YOUR neighborhood soon!

[Antique lady]

Here is the link to the FBI crime demographics tables...

FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 6 (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls)

[GoodLife]

Oh, Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. My friends all drive Porsches. I MUST make amends!

84495

I am soooo ashamed :1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

You don't go deep enough on this "racism" issue. It is not about the color of one's skin, it about the quality and equality of education. The problem goes back to when, in many cases, the color of your skin or your sex determined if and to what extent your were educated. In this country and many other countries, the "rising tide" has not raised all boats. Poorly educated parents create a pathway for poorly educated children. it is a vicious circle. I thank god, every day, for the education my parents "made" me get. Until we solve the education parity problem nothing changes. There are three basic needs: food, clothing and shelter. If you can't earn it then you get it any way you can. You steal it, or expect "someone" to provide it for you. Bottom line here is: the "haves" do not want to associate with the "have nots". Nothing to do with the color of their skin.
Education is good. What would have been better is if in about 1965, as part of the Civil Rights Act. Lawmakers had worked on the problem of eliminating tribal ethnic separation of communities. Busing cost more money than would have been legislation forcing ALL new developments to be representative of all ethnic groups-it did NOT happen. Today we pay those costs (sometimes in lives).
Also, the tax % of the '50s + '60s was MUCH more progressive than today, where we have almost a flat income tax. That discourages upward mobility. It is MUCH more important than most people realize.

[jimjamuser]

What brutalizes law enforcement personnel? They aren’t all problematic. Many weren’t a problem when they were trained. Most didn’t become cops in hope of being brutal. I think a lot of cops found themselves becoming more and more abusive or aggressive as they experienced aggression against themselves. This is NOT a matter of ethnicity—it happens in all ethnicities—but the more it happens, the more it may change police behavior. A cop assigned a neighborhood with a high crime rate is especially likely to become aggressive.

Consider this. You are a new cop, with good intentions. Perhaps you have a degree in criminal justice. If you are assigned to a neighborhood with little crime, where people treat you with respect, turn to you for help, and thank you, you prosper and you become wiser and more helpful as the years pass. However, if you are assigned to a high crime neighborhood where people lie to you all the time, sneer at you all the time, see you as the enemy rather than as a rescuer, where people curse you to your face, where you are in fear of your lives, where you see criminals breaking laws and hurting people all the time, but know that if you arrest these people, they will be released in hours, then there’s a much better chance that you will become aggressive. Who can blame cops for learning to hate criminals? Who can blame cops for developing a sense of who is a criminal and who isn’t? It may seem unfair to many of us, but that’s how the mind works, how it develops.

I suspect that most “police brutality” can be traced to cops who were brutalized by the people against whom they now show brutality. Some many have come to associate that with skin color, but bear in mind that the problem is found among African-American cops, too. If all cops were treated with respect, many more would treat others with respect.
Wery possible. My solution would be to have a national draft just like the military was in the '60s. 2 or 3 years then you can leave or stay if you prove you are dependable and not corrupt and have had 3 years' worth of psychological testing to minimize aggressive ethnic prejudices. Move senior police over to the post office and keep infusing freshly drafted rookies. Volunteer police are more likely to be power-hungry and corrupt.

[Aloha1]

Visit the FBI 2018 crime table. For murder they record the race of the victims and race of the offender.

For 2018 they show a total of 3,315 white murder victims. Race of offender in those murders, 2677 white, 514 African American, 61 other, 63 unknown.

For 2018 they show 2925 African American murder victims. Race of offenders in those murders 234 white, 2600 African American, 17 other, 74 unknown.

Assuming your numbers are correct, you've just verified that white on black murders are miniscule compared to black on black murders. So who exactly is the problem here?

[jimjamuser]

I have just spent time reading on the CDC and FBI homicide data base websites and I just do not see facts supporting systemic racism when it comes to murder statistics. Yes the # 1 cause of death in young black men ages 15-44 is murder while white men it is at # 4 but a whopping 94% of that murder is black on black and gang related AND 97% of the murder is committed in blue cities and has been since the 70'S.. I've lived my entire life in the suburbs of St Louis County where the Murder rate is around 3%, you can drive safely for hours North, South and West and that number doesn't change, HOWEVER, if I drive 15 minutes East that number explodes to 37%.. We St Louisans get so tired of hearing how we are the Murder Capital of the US when it's actually one little sliver of St Louis that makes up for 97% of that Murder where most of us avoid like the plague. St Louis City pop. 300,000 murder rate 37% St Louis County and surrounding areas population 2 MILLION murder rate 3%... Obviously poverty, gangs and drugs are a dangerous formula and IMHO until we get politics out of the equation these statistics will never change..
Would be fixed by homogeneous neighborhoods. Ghettos never improve society or GNP.

[jimjamuser]

I completely agree with you. What these clowns are calling for is crazy. All the while ignoring how well organized the militants were and actually still are.

Strategically placing containers of bricks, rocks, plastic bottles filled with cement, to throw at the police. Many, law enforcement personnel were seriously injured.

And yes some have died.

It is madness. Defund the Police ? You people have no idea what the consequences would be. What on earth are you people thinking.

There are some who regularly post negative comments regarding law enforcement and for that you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I can't post here what I really want to say but needless to say it isn't pleasant !
True that rocks were strategically placed.

[jimjamuser]

Slavery existed long before America was even discovered and Europeans began their trade. Slavery existed in the first civilizations like the Sumer in Mesopotamia (3500 BC)
Slavery has been inflicted by just about every race and religion on the planet. Africans, Caucasians, Asians, even American Natives had slaves. You'd be surprised that slavery still exists in several countries today, and they aren't run by white people.

You are making a blatant attempt to blame only whites for slavery. Do some more research.
Very correct.

[kathy1516]

Just curious, but did you do this while also having...black skin?

Do you think your life would have been different at all...if you had?

Do you think any of us who were born white, really have a clue...what it's like to be black?

Other than reading about/talking to, those that are black...that is.


Being Black by Jane Elliott - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yrg7vV4a5o)
I believe where there’s a will, there’s a way. There are much more programs available for minorities than whites. Being black is no excuse for blaming others for all their problems. It’s learned multigenerational behavior. The cycle has to break. It’s time to take responsibility for oneself. It’s easier to sell drugs, steal, protest for equality then stay in school, work hard for higher education and pursue a better life. It’s up to each individual to accomplish this for themselves.

[jimjamuser]

84495

I am soooo ashamed :1rotfl:
Good Fl. color. Won't burn your hand. Maybe burn my wallet for the car?

[ragtag22]

Watch this video and see if you agree with this information. Are the Police Racist? | PragerU (https://www.prageru.com/video/are-the-police-racist/)

[GoodLife]

Good Fl. color. Won't burn your hand. Maybe burn my wallet for the car?

The trick is to buy one certified preowned. I paid $62k for that car when it was 2 years old with 17k miles on it. Not a scratch. Original new price was $119k. My warranty will be up soon, so will get something else.

[anothersteve]

Watch this video and see if you agree with this information. Are the Police Racist? | PragerU (https://www.prageru.com/video/are-the-police-racist/)

With pie charts and graphs and stuff.............just like school.
Thanks.
Steve

[sloanst]

I have not heard or read of one person, left or right, that isn't disgusted by the actions of all 4 of these police officers. Any attempt to paint an entire race or political faction otherwise is disingenuous at best and psychotic at worst.

[Antique lady]

What's happened in our country is not about blaming others. It is about accountability when murder is committed. It is about accountability when there are funding disparities in our nation's schools based on poverty, race and ethnicity. It is about accountability when polling places are removed from communities of color and moved further away. It is about accountability when calling to rent an apartment, being told it is available while on a cell walking to the door and when the landloard hangs up the phone as you end the call with them suddenly no availability. It is about showing up for an interview and dealing with the shocked face of HR that did not know based on your application that you were a person of color or sometimes based on name did not know you were a woman.

All of this is about holding institutions accountable so that all people can be treated fairly and all people will have the opportunities you speak of. NO there are not programs that hold people accountable. Have no idea what programs you are referring to.

Poverty knows no color. Poor whites, poor latinos, poor asians, poor African Americans face similar challenges with education, employment, food security and housing. I worry about what will happen in July when the freeze on evictions ends and jobs that were halted due to Covid 19 are no longer available with some employers. How will those formerly employed people live.... We are in a world of hurt as a nation. Time to stand together....

[Stu from NYC]

I came from poorly educated parents. My father died young, my mother a widow taking care of three young kids ages 6mo to 11 years old. We grew up poor before the culture of handouts and we worked hard to help her out as soon as we were old enough. I put myself through college at night while I worked full time during the day. No advantages given to us.
I’m really tired of hearing about the disadvantaged minorities who grew up with uneducated parents and no opportunities.
This is bunk! Stay in school, stay away from drugs, stay away from crime, work hard, apply all the anger that’s displayed During protests towards self improvement rather than blaming whites for your situation. There are so many programs available to minorities, scholarships, federal grant money. Pull yourself up and make positive change in your own lives.

Very well said. Look at the Vietnamese who came here with nothing not speaking the language and how successful many are in one generation.

[manaboutown]

Very well said. Look at the Vietnamese who came here with nothing not speaking the language and how successful many are in one generation.

I have seen several top drawer Vietnamese physicians and have had a Chinese woman dentist. My daughter has seen at least two Korean and a couple Vietnamese physicians.

Almost every group of immigrants who came into this country faced obstacles, language, prejudice, name calling and so on. Even incarceration for almost any perceived misbehavior. How did the "Paddy Wagon" get its name?

Remember years of indentured servitude for passage to America?

[ColdNoMore]

Watch this video and see if you agree with this information. Are the Police Racist? | PragerU (https://www.prageru.com/video/are-the-police-racist/)

PragurU?

Click Here (http://mediabiasfactcheck.com/prageru/)

Factual reporting=LOW

Overall, we rate PragerU Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda, the use of poor sources who have failed fact checks, and the publication of misleading information regarding immigration and climate change.



Manhattan Institute?

Click Here (http://mediabiasfactcheck.com/manhattan-institute-for-policy-research/)

We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to a lack of transparency with funding, use of poor sources, and a failed fact check.



Facts Matter :ho:

[ColdNoMore]

What's happened in our country is not about blaming others. It is about accountability when murder is committed.

It is about accountability when there are funding disparities in our nation's schools based on poverty, race and ethnicity.

It is about accountability when polling places are removed from communities of color and moved further away.

It is about accountability when calling to rent an apartment, being told it is available while on a cell walking to the door and when the landloard hangs up the phone as you end the call with them suddenly no availability.

It is about showing up for an interview and dealing with the shocked face of HR that did not know based on your application that you were a person of color or sometimes based on name did not know you were a woman.

All of this is about holding institutions accountable so that all people can be treated fairly and all people will have the opportunities you speak of. NO there are not programs that hold people accountable. Have no idea what programs you are referring to.

Poverty knows no color. Poor whites, poor latinos, poor asians, poor African Americans face similar challenges with education, employment, food security and housing. I worry about what will happen in July when the freeze on evictions ends and jobs that were halted due to Covid 19 are no longer available with some employers. How will those formerly employed people live.... We are in a world of hurt as a nation. Time to stand together....

:bigbow:

[Eg_cruz]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.
Yup

[Eg_cruz]

I did a Google search on this very subject and the stats do not add up. I researched it all ways and the black vs white doesn't add up that blacks are being singled out.

Even % wise all this is hyped up. I took the time to research this and it is false reporting.

The person who killed George Floyd has been arrested and so he should be, I have watched all of the videos.

However the aftermath played into the hands of BLM, and Antifa, who were waiting for the right opportunity and they did a masterful job in creating violence's.

So go ahead who fall for the lies do your homework like I did. Really really, sad what has happened.

It will unfortunately change our Country.

The organizers that I mentioned were just waiting for the opportunity and they pulled it off.

Better wake up.

There are well organized factions who want to bring the USA down.
Well said

[roscoguy]

Slavery existed long before America was even discovered and Europeans began their trade. Slavery existed in the first civilizations like the Sumer in Mesopotamia (3500 BC)
Slavery has been inflicted by just about every race and religion on the planet. Africans, Caucasians, Asians, even American Natives had slaves. You'd be surprised that slavery still exists in several countries today, and they aren't run by white people.

You are making a blatant attempt to blame only whites for slavery. Do some more research.

The post I was replying to referred to the history of slavery as relates to Europe & America. That it exists or existed before, after or anywhere else has nothing to do with that.
I'm not at all surprised that it still exits today.
I made no blatant attempt to blame whites for ALL slavery. Go back & reread the post I was responding to & then take mine more in context.
Done plenty of research on the subject I was actually referring to.

[kathy1516]

Thank you Kathy for the best post of the year. I couldn't have said it any better.
My Mom raised 4 boys alone, and we all turned out fine because of a good moral fiber and working damn hard all our lives.
The incentive to work hard disappears as the government gives out more and more "Free Sh*t".
You grew up like I did CarSkillBill. No handouts and government freebies. We worked hard for what we had. We didn’t have it easy, but overcame the obstacles and made a productive life for ourselves. Too much government intervention promotes nothing but a culture of lazy dependence. The Vietnamese are a prime example of a hard working culture. The minorities should take note of cultures such as theirs.

[Swoop]

You miss the main point. This murder was more like a public Lynching than murder. It was done in the public in front of a crowd and took minutes to complete the killing. A public lynching in the year 2020 In the United States is pretty frightening.
Please refer me to the post where you express your outrage over Tony Timpa’s death. I must have missed it...

[Swoop]

[QUOTE=ColdNoMore;1780010]Just curious, but did you do this while also having...black skin?

Do you think your life would have been different at all...if you had?

Do you think any of us who were born white, really have a clue...what it's like to be black?

Other than reading about/talking to, those that are black...that is.

You seem to be the only one who knows what it’s like to be black and how black people think. You have already inferred in previous posts that blacks wish they were white... Many may feel that is a truly racist point of view...
I would be hard pressed to disagree with them...

[ColdNoMore]

You seem to be the only one who knows what it’s like to be black and how black people think. You have already inferred in previous posts that blacks wish they were white...Wrong, I am far from "the only one." I am one of the very few here however, that are trying to point out how much harder it is in this country having black skin. If you ever had honest conversations with enough black people, you would hear the exact same thing. I was fortunate in having had worked with dozens of hard-working (a lot who were very religious) black men in my long career, so was able to converse and have honest conversations from some damn good men.

Have you ever even tried to do so?

What's more important here, is how many white's who are clueless (often purposely), want to say that having black skin makes no difference in the way you're treated in general, from the time you're born, to the type of education you get, to the issues you have to overcome to getting well-paid jobs.


Many may feel that is a truly racist point of view...And MANY know, in their hearts, that I am exactly right...and simply speaking the truth. Which then brings out the defensive nature of those who KNOW I'm speaking the truth and either try to justify it...or want to try and hide/deflect from it.

One only has to read posts from dozens of people on this site alone...to see the proof in my comments.


I would be hard pressed to disagree with them... I believe you on that.

Listen to this from Jane Elliott (it takes less than one minute) and then tell us...where is she wrong?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yrg7vV4a5o


:ho:

[Byte1]

Very well said. Look at the Vietnamese who came here with nothing not speaking the language and how successful many are in one generation.

If you are speaking of the Vietnamese that were refugees in the 70's, point of interest is that they were given a gov grant of something like $24k (not sure of the exact amount)each to help establish themselves here. Not much by today's standards, but........ I totally agree with you, though. Many immigrants have taken advantage of our FREEDOM and opportunity to succeed in this great country. Those that are able and are not successful can only blame themselves. I am not talking about the distant past where some were kept out due to race, gender or even not being a member of a secret society/club. There is NO excuse today for those that are able.

[OhioBuckeye]

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.
Thank you, I agree! No protest about the killings, fires & looting. I guess that overrides George’s death. Thanks again!

[junction29]

I came from poorly educated parents. My father died young, my mother a widow taking care of three young kids ages 6mo to 11 years old. We grew up poor before the culture of handouts and we worked hard to help her out as soon as we were old enough. I put myself through college at night while I worked full time during the day. No advantages given to us.
I’m really tired of hearing about the disadvantaged minorities who grew up with uneducated parents and no opportunities.
This is bunk! Stay in school, stay away from drugs, stay away from crime, work hard, apply all the anger that’s displayed During protests towards self improvement rather than blaming whites for your situation. There are so many programs available to minorities, scholarships, federal grant money. Pull yourself up and make positive change in your own lives.

Well said, rather than finding people to blame, work hard to make a good life for yourself and your family.
Just so you know, I went down the pit (coal mine) at fifteen, married and had a child at 19 and still married today 54 years later after a very successful business career.
How hard you work determines how successful you are.

[golf4wendy]

not to mention that george floyd was a lifetime criminal in and out of prision and at 1 point aimed a gun at a pregnant womans stomach as they ransacked her apartment to look for drugs and money. This is the example that our country is torn apart for. Not to take away from the bad cop but they raised $12 million on his behalf with a big funeral which the celebrities and left paid for meanwhile a retired black 70+ yr old cop has no recognition and was gunned down by a black man "only some black lives matter"

[Bay Kid]

He left Texas because he had 2 stints in prison against him. One more meant life in prison.

[Byte1]

He left Texas because he had 2 stints in prison against him. One more meant life in prison.

I'm glad he left or otherwise the taxpayer would be paying his way for the rest of his life. Just looking at the positive aspect of the situation. :a040:

[John41]

never mind disbanding the police union, it’s the teachers union trying to ban charter schools where blacks can get a good education that should be disbanded