Request for golf cart crossing on Warm Springs bridge over turnpike

[russtcc]

This is a request to the developer to add an additional crossing for golf carts across the turnpike on the Warm Springs bridge. It has been shown that the north span on the bridge could easily accommodate cart traffic. In fact, compared to the Lake Sumter bridge on Morse it would be wider and much shorter. We appreciate there will be bridges at the north and south end of the Villages on this side of the turnpike but one in the middle would make sense.

The Water Lily bridge will be a great addition but for the Villages of Fenney, DeSoto, McClure, Linden and Monarch Grove a Warm Springs bridge access would provide a speedier route to the new developments such as the championship golf course in Bradford and other commercial developments including faster access to the Chitty Chatty bridge to Lake Deaton Plaza and the Rohan rec center.

Another concern is regarding the Hogeye Trail. The east side of the trail is along the turnpike and is a multi-modal surface with walkers, bicyclists, and golf carts. When the Water Lily bridge opens the amount of golf cart traffic on this portion of the Hogeye trail will increase exponentially. From a safety standpoint it would seem to make sense to decrease golf cart traffic there if possible, for the safety of walkers and those on a bicycle.

We residents south (west) of the turnpike look forward to the future golf cart access to the rest of the Villages. The addition of access across the Warm Springs bridge would be greatly appreciated.

[Number 10 GI]

I doubt The Villages organization has much to say in this. That is a county road and will require county approval and there might even be some state requirements that have to be met. Even if you get across the turnpike where are you going to go? The developer isn't going to put a golf cart path on undeveloped land where there will be ongoing construction. Golf carts would be in danger from construction vehicles. Not worth the risk.

[John_W]

Isn't Warm Springs Rd speed limit 45? We have golf cart lanes on St. Charles, Hillsborough, Pinellas and Moyer, all those roads speed limit is 35. Even LSV (street legal carts) can only go on 35 mph roads, that's why Morse and Buena Vista are limited to 35. For that to work, they would need to build a barrier wall between the car lane and the golf cart lane.

[JoMar]

Didn't Don Wiley speculate on that in an earler video?

[davem4616]

I'm thinking that if you really want to make a request to the developer (and be heard)...then maybe this isn't the best forum to do it in...there is no evidence that the developer reads the posts in this forum or pays a lot of attention to them (if I were the developer I certainly wouldn't)

so, spend a few bucks and send him a FedEx with your specific thoughts on exactly what you'd like to see happen.

It's always more effective to go direct.....just saying

[photo1902]

What’s a Don Wiley?

[birdiebill]

Isn't Warm Springs Rd speed limit 45? We have golf cart lanes on St. Charles, Hillsborough, Pinellas and Moyer, all those roads speed limit is 35. Even LSV (street legal carts) can only go on 35 mph roads, that's why Morse and Buena Vista are limited to 35. For that to work, they would need to build a barrier wall between the car lane and the golf cart lane.

The speed limit on St. Charles, Moyer, Hillsborough, Pinellas, O’Dell, and most other streets with a marked golf cart lane is 30 mph, not 35.

[JoMar]

What’s a Don Wiley?

Goldwingnut

[Doc Akron]

Don’t be that naive. What the Villages want, the villages usually have a way of getting. The cart path over the bridge would help many residents.

[Gmb727]

When someone designs, gets approval and builds a bridge with one side considerably wider then the other. You have to wonder if that was the original thought at one time. Maybe it was a backup plan if they couldn't the the separate Water Lilly bridge approved. In any case, I totally agree, it would make life a lot easier to get to Lake Deaton and the other new areas. Also agree, when the water Lilly bridge opens, I think the MMP that parallels the turnpike will be like an Atlanta rush hour. (well, maybe no that bad)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

God Luck!!! Calls for an additional golf cart crossing over 27/441 have been being made for decades. The developers answer is "NO".

I have to drive my golf cart over two miles to get to a business that is a quarter mile from my house.

When we had flooding from the hurricane a few years ago, we couldn't get across. After a few days an officer was stationed where Morse comes across and we were allowed to cross there.

Residents of Stonecrest are allowed to cross 27/441 at the lights near their community. I don't why we can't do that here.

But as far as getting an additional bridge, I don't of many instances where the developer listesn to suggestions or requests from the residents.

[Windguy]

Isn't Warm Springs Rd speed limit 45? We have golf cart lanes on St. Charles, Hillsborough, Pinellas and Moyer, all those roads speed limit is 35. Even LSV (street legal carts) can only go on 35 mph roads, that's why Morse and Buena Vista are limited to 35. For that to work, they would need to build a barrier wall between the car lane and the golf cart lane.
I agree, but what would be the point of a cart lane crossing the bridge if there aren’t multi-modal paths on either side to take you somewhere?

[gjbakke]

All roads with golf cart lanes are only 30 MPH. Please keep that in mind..
Safety

[russtcc]

This was Goldwingnut's idea and he did all the work measuring out why it would work. Much like the Lake Sumter bridge on Morse there would be a barrier between cars and carts and could be wider than that cart path. At no time would you be on an unprotected cart path with cars like on Morse north of 466.

For those that haven't driven down Warm Springs road in a while the cart path we are talking about would join up with the new tunnel under Warm Springs road. You would go left to go to Brownwood and right to Bradford and the new golf course.

[greenflash245]

good luck

[CWGUY]

What’s a Don Wiley?

WOW :rolleyes:

[John_W]

The speed limit on St. Charles, Moyer, Hillsborough, Pinellas, O’Dell, and most other streets with a marked golf cart lane is 30 mph, not 35.

You're right, it's 30 and not 35. I should know I live just off St. Charles for 9 years. My point was, they're not 45 like Warm Springs.

[renrod]

You're right, it's 30 and not 35. I should know I live just off St. Charles for 9 years. My point was, they're not 45 like Warm Springs.

Guess who could take care of the speed limit, reducing it to 35 MPH, like Morse Blvd & Buena Vista?

[Curtisbwp]

This is a request to the developer to add an additional crossing for golf carts across the turnpike on the Warm Springs bridge. It has been shown that the north span on the bridge could easily accommodate cart traffic. In fact, compared to the Lake Sumter bridge on Morse it would be wider and much shorter. We appreciate there will be bridges at the north and south end of the Villages on this side of the turnpike but one in the middle would make sense.

The Water Lily bridge will be a great addition but for the Villages of Fenney, DeSoto, McClure, Linden and Monarch Grove a Warm Springs bridge access would provide a speedier route to the new developments such as the championship golf course in Bradford and other commercial developments including faster access to the Chitty Chatty bridge to Lake Deaton Plaza and the Rohan rec center.

Another concern is regarding the Hogeye Trail. The east side of the trail is along the turnpike and is a multi-modal surface with walkers, bicyclists, and golf carts. When the Water Lily bridge opens the amount of golf cart traffic on this portion of the Hogeye trail will increase exponentially. From a safety standpoint it would seem to make sense to decrease golf cart traffic there if possible, for the safety of walkers and those on a bicycle.

We residents south (west) of the turnpike look forward to the future golf cart access to the rest of the Villages. The addition of access across the Warm Springs bridge would be greatly appreciated.

And i wish the tooth fairy would show himself. County, and state officials would have to approne it. Not an easy task.

[John_W]

Guess who could take care of the speed limit, reducing it to 35 MPH, like Morse Blvd & Buena Vista?

I think you might get some pushback from area residents about 35 on Warm Springs Rd, that would be awfully slow for that road. If they do it, so golf carts can ride on that road, more power to them. I would not want to dive my cart on the side of that road with the dump trucks and everything speeding down there. 35 would make it legal for LSVs, but they would need to go all the way down to 30 for regular carts.

[photo1902]

You're right, it's 30 and not 35. I should know I live just off St. Charles for 9 years. My point was, they're not 45 like Warm Springs.

Warm Springs is not 45. It’s 35

[John_W]

Warm Springs is not 45. It’s 35

I haven't been down there in about a year, so Warm Springs crossing over the Turnpike is only 35 in that area? My memory must be bad about that. If that's case, you can add the cart lane by dropping it only 5 mph.

[bluecenturian]

It would need county support so how about getting a LARGE group together and go to the county commissioners meeting to express our need and desire for this. There are County seats up for re-election and since 2 of the incumbents couldn’t even get enough signatures on a petition they had to pay to be on the ballot in sure it would be in their best interest to hear out the needs of their constituents.

Your issue with nowhere to go is just uniformed and lacking insight. They put a tunnel in that goes nowhere right now so why was it put up. It would take probably a year to get the lanes put in on 468 and construction is constantly ongoing so the issue isn’t put the lanes in tomorrow for use but to have a future vision 3 years down the road. It’s us a huge necessity for those living west of the turnpike.

[Joe C.]

Need state approval for a bridge over the turnpike.
And maybe they could put up sensors so when you go
over the bridge, the Sunpass would automatically
register the toll charge. :MOJE_whot: :MOJE_whot:

[Michael Charles]

Warm Springs is not 45. It’s 35

correct!

Morse Blvd continues south of FL Rte. 44 (45 mph for a short stretch) around the roundabout at the southern entrance to TV of Bradford. Using the bypass lane there it's basically where Warm Springs (35 mph) begins then continues over the turnpike all the way past TV of Fenney ending at US rte 301.

[vintageogauge]

When someone designs, gets approval and builds a bridge with one side considerably wider then the other. You have to wonder if that was the original thought at one time. Maybe it was a backup plan if they couldn't the the separate Water Lilly bridge approved. In any case, I totally agree, it would make life a lot easier to get to Lake Deaton and the other new areas. Also agree, when the water Lilly bridge opens, I think the MMP that parallels the turnpike will be like an Atlanta rush hour. (well, maybe no that bad)

That bridge was supposed to be part of another entrance to the turnpike but the decision to put it there was reversed a few years ago, that may be why it is wider.

[Goldwingnut]

If K-rail is installed, as I suggested in my video, then the 35MPH max issue goes away as the road would be divided and there is no hazard to either the carts or the cars. The 35MPH rule applies when there is no substantial physical separation between the lanes like we see on the primary feeder roads to Morse and Buena Vista. Standard K-rail is 42" high and can also be fitted with additional fencing or barrier on top when additional physical or visual separation is desired or required.

The bridge was built with the additional width requirements planned for an entry/exit ramp to the turnpike on CR468, something no longer possible due to the development.

An engineer can design and justify to provide the best solution possible to meet the need, or they can design and justify to meet the desired or directed solution. I've done both in my past career and have alway preferred the former over the latter.

Getting it approved through the county and FDOT is easily accomplished with sufficient political clout and desire. The first we all know is there, it is only the second that is now question.

Without a crossing on Warm Springs the alternatives of the Water Lily and Bexley bridges are a year or more into the future and hugely inconvenient to residents and merchants on both sides of the turnpike.

Watch the full video on the proposed solution
My Connectivity Theory 3-9-20 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ZtmdBF95PK8)

[vintageogauge]

Warm Springs is not 45. It’s 35

Part of it is 45 except where there is construction and once you cross over the bridge it drops to 35. All of Warm Springs used to be 45, if you look at a GPS it still shows it as 45.

[Gmb727]

That bridge was supposed to be part of another entrance to the turnpike but the decision to put it there was reversed a few years ago, that may be why it is wider.

Oh yes, I get it. That probably was going to be a merge lane for people exiting the TP. Now that makes sense. So they cancelled the TP exit project but the bridge was already built, wider on one side. Thanks for clarifying. I am sure that's what happened.

[Goldwingnut]

Yesterday I noticed that there is a new traffic light going in at Meggison and Warm Springs. With the traffic light at the Marsh Bend Trail and Warm Springs intersection on the other side of the road this leaves a very short section of roadway the doesn't lend itself to a 45 MPH speed limit between the lights.

[photo1902]

Part of it is 45 except where there is construction and once you cross over the bridge it drops to 35. All of Warm Springs used to be 45, if you look at a GPS it still shows it as 45.

Very aware of that road, long before Fenney was even started. I have a feeling the 45 MPH sign just south of the Turnpike will be pulled. I believe it’s a leftover from when all of 468 was 45.

But heading north on Warm Springs, south of the turnpike,up until Bradford is 35, minus the one 45 MPH sign by Grace Tabernacle, which again I believe is a leftover.

[russtcc]

To clarify some post misunderstandings we are not talking about building a new bridge. With a barrier between the cars and carts the existing bridge is big enough. Plus compared to the bridge over Lake Sumter on Morse the span is very short.

In addition I for one would be willing to participate in a group to discuss with the appropriate parties.

[photo1902]

I haven't been down there in about a year, so Warm Springs crossing over the Turnpike is only 35 in that area? My memory must be bad about that. If that's case, you can add the cart lane by dropping it only 5 mph.

It's a hodgepodge of signs, for sure. For example, at Charlene/Morse (Bradford entrance) the last speed limit sign on the northbound side is 35MPH (all the way to 44).

But on the southbound side, its 45 MPH from 44 until you get close to Bradford.

I just don't think they've kept up with removing the old signs during the construction taking place along Morse/Warm Springs.

[russtcc]

To make this happen we obviously need The Villages support. Does anyone know who would be the best person to approach?

It's possible to get things done with persistence. On a much smaller scale on Linden Isle the builders possibly forgot in one area to provide a ramp to the sidewalk for bicycles and wheelchairs. Emails were sent to the district and a crew came out and put one in.

This is much bigger but I think its important to reach out to the right person to propose the idea.

[dkaufnelson]

I would also like to add a request for golf cart tunnel at Fenney Way rotary so those of us in DeSoto and Fenney can access the beautiful walking trails in Marsh Bend and future bridge to Brownwood. Right now the only way we can get there is to drive all the way up to the tunnel at Magnolia plaza then cross under Marsh bend road at the Everglades tunnel which is much longer than if we could go straight across Fenney Way. The Villages has tunnels at most rotaries on Buena Vista and Morse so why didn't they put one at Fenney way for residents on the "other side of the tracks" who live in Fenney and DeSoto.

[photo1902]

I would also like to add a request for golf cart tunnel at Fenney Way rotary so those of us in DeSoto and Fenney can access the beautiful walking trails in Marsh Bend and future bridge to Brownwood. Right now the only way we can get there is to drive all the way up to the tunnel at Magnolia plaza then cross over Marsh bend road at the Everglades tunnel which is much longer than if we could go straight across Fenney Way. The Villages has tunnels at most rotaries on Buena Vista and Morse so why didn't they put one at Fenney way for residents on the "other side of the tracks" who live in Fenney and DeSoto.

You are kidding, right?

[jet10s]

This is a request to the developer to add an additional crossing for golf carts across the turnpike on the Warm Springs bridge. It has been shown that the north span on the bridge could easily accommodate cart traffic. In fact, compared to the Lake Sumter bridge on Morse it would be wider and much shorter. We appreciate there will be bridges at the north and south end of the Villages on this side of the turnpike but one in the middle would make sense.

The Water Lily bridge will be a great addition but for the Villages of Fenney, DeSoto, McClure, Linden and Monarch Grove a Warm Springs bridge access would provide a speedier route to the new developments such as the championship golf course in Bradford and other commercial developments including faster access to the Chitty Chatty bridge to Lake Deaton Plaza and the Rohan rec center.

Another concern is regarding the Hogeye Trail. The east side of the trail is along the turnpike and is a multi-modal surface with walkers, bicyclists, and golf carts. When the Water Lily bridge opens the amount of golf cart traffic on this portion of the Hogeye trail will increase exponentially. From a safety standpoint it would seem to make sense to decrease golf cart traffic there if possible, for the safety of walkers and those on a bicycle.

We residents south (west) of the turnpike look forward to the future golf cart access to the rest of the Villages. The addition of access across the Warm Springs bridge would be greatly appreciated.
you are dreaming -- right???? lol

[jet10s]

To clarify some post misunderstandings we are not talking about building a new bridge. With a barrier between the cars and carts the existing bridge is big enough. Plus compared to the bridge over Lake Sumter on Morse the span is very short.

In addition I for one would be willing to participate in a group to discuss with the appropriate parties.
good luck with that

[jet10s]

It would need county support so how about getting a LARGE group together and go to the county commissioners meeting to express our need and desire for this. There are County seats up for re-election and since 2 of the incumbents couldn’t even get enough signatures on a petition they had to pay to be on the ballot in sure it would be in their best interest to hear out the needs of their constituents.

Your issue with nowhere to go is just uniformed and lacking insight. They put a tunnel in that goes nowhere right now so why was it put up. It would take probably a year to get the lanes put in on 468 and construction is constantly ongoing so the issue isn’t put the lanes in tomorrow for use but to have a future vision 3 years down the road. It’s us a huge necessity for those living west of the turnpike.
dream on

[sallybowron]

INHO speed limits are "maybe,maybe not" around. Yesterday my husband was going 45 in a 45 zone and a person swept past us going 60 or more. In less than a minute he was out of sight.

[yabbadu]

This is a request to the developer to add an additional crossing for golf carts across the turnpike on the Warm Springs bridge. It has been shown that the north span on the bridge could easily accommodate cart traffic. In fact, compared to the Lake Sumter bridge on Morse it would be wider and much shorter. We appreciate there will be bridges at the north and south end of the Villages on this side of the turnpike but one in the middle would make sense.

The Water Lily bridge will be a great addition but for the Villages of Fenney, DeSoto, McClure, Linden and Monarch Grove a Warm Springs bridge access would provide a speedier route to the new developments such as the championship golf course in Bradford and other commercial developments including faster access to the Chitty Chatty bridge to Lake Deaton Plaza and the Rohan rec center.

Another concern is regarding the Hogeye Trail. The east side of the trail is along the turnpike and is a multi-modal surface with walkers, bicyclists, and golf carts. When the Water Lily bridge opens the amount of golf cart traffic on this portion of the Hogeye trail will increase exponentially. From a safety standpoint it would seem to make sense to decrease golf cart traffic there if possible, for the safety of walkers and those on a bicycle.

We residents south (west) of the turnpike look forward to the future golf cart access to the rest of the Villages. The addition of access across the Warm Springs bridge would be greatly appreciated.

Am not aware that the TOV is the official place to put in a request to the developer.????:bigbow:

[photo1902]

INHO speed limits are "maybe,maybe not" around. Yesterday my husband was going 45 in a 45 zone and a person swept past us going 60 or more. In less than a minute he was out of sight.

Just like every other place in the U.S.

[yankygrl]

This is a request to the developer to add an additional crossing for golf carts across the turnpike on the Warm Springs bridge. It has been shown that the north span on the bridge could easily accommodate cart traffic. In fact, compared to the Lake Sumter bridge on Morse it would be wider and much shorter. We appreciate there will be bridges at the north and south end of the Villages on this side of the turnpike but one in the middle would make sense.

The Water Lily bridge will be a great addition but for the Villages of Fenney, DeSoto, McClure, Linden and Monarch Grove a Warm Springs bridge access would provide a speedier route to the new developments such as the championship golf course in Bradford and other commercial developments including faster access to the Chitty Chatty bridge to Lake Deaton Plaza and the Rohan rec center.

Another concern is regarding the Hogeye Trail. The east side of the trail is along the turnpike and is a multi-modal surface with walkers, bicyclists, and golf carts. When the Water Lily bridge opens the amount of golf cart traffic on this portion of the Hogeye trail will increase exponentially. From a safety standpoint it would seem to make sense to decrease golf cart traffic there if possible, for the safety of walkers and those on a bicycle.

We residents south (west) of the turnpike look forward to the future golf cart access to the rest of the Villages. The addition of access across the Warm Springs bridge would be greatly appreciated.
Good luck this.

[Topspinmo]

Guess who could take care of the speed limit, reducing it to 35 MPH, like Morse Blvd & Buena Vista?


But that still wouldn’t let golf carts travel on it.. it has to have maximum speed of 35 with golf cart lane or maximum speed of 25 MPH to drive down the road in golf cart and be approved for golf cart traffic. Only LSVs can travel on roads with maximum speed of 35 MPH.

[VApeople]

We do not own a golf cart and have no plans to buy one. However, I do have an opinion on this matter.

They should build a new golf cart bridge over the turnpike near where 468 crosses. It could be just like the Water Lily bridge.

Of course, that will cost money. However, it will make the new villages of Bradford and St. Catherine's more appealing and that means the builder can charge more for homes in those areas and recoup part of the cost.

[JoMar]

We do not own a golf cart and have no plans to buy one. However, I do have an opinion on this matter.

They should build a new golf cart bridge over the turnpike near where 468 crosses. It could be just like the Water Lily bridge.

Of course, that will cost money. However, it will make the new villages of Bradford and St. Catherine's more appealing and that means the builder can charge more for homes in those areas and recoup part of the cost.

Why do that if they can use the existing bridge and pay nothing. If they do as Goldwingnut speculates it would have the same type of path as the Morse Bridge and provide access to everthing. Why no cart?

[VApeople]

Why do that if they can use the existing bridge and pay nothing. If they do as Goldwingnut speculates it would have the same type of path as the Morse Bridge and provide access to everthing.

I think the Morse bridge is pretty crummy because it is 4-lane road with no median. The golf cart path looks very narrow. I think the new southern areas deserve better.


Why no cart?

My wife and I like to walk when we play golf. We have nice cars that we truly enjoy driving. In a car vs cart encounter, I would rather be in the car. For example, at Turtle Mound a few days ago, a cart drove thru the stop sign on the MMP and almost hit us. We were happy that we were in our car.

[yabbadu]

This is a request to the developer to add an additional crossing for golf carts across the turnpike on the Warm Springs bridge. It has been shown that the north span on the bridge could easily accommodate cart traffic. In fact, compared to the Lake Sumter bridge on Morse it would be wider and much shorter. We appreciate there will be bridges at the north and south end of the Villages on this side of the turnpike but one in the middle would make sense.

The Water Lily bridge will be a great addition but for the Villages of Fenney, DeSoto, McClure, Linden and Monarch Grove a Warm Springs bridge access would provide a speedier route to the new developments such as the championship golf course in Bradford and other commercial developments including faster access to the Chitty Chatty bridge to Lake Deaton Plaza and the Rohan rec center.

Another concern is regarding the Hogeye Trail. The east side of the trail is along the turnpike and is a multi-modal surface with walkers, bicyclists, and golf carts. When the Water Lily bridge opens the amount of golf cart traffic on this portion of the Hogeye trail will increase exponentially. From a safety standpoint it would seem to make sense to decrease golf cart traffic there if possible, for the safety of walkers and those on a bicycle.

We residents south (west) of the turnpike look forward to the future golf cart access to the rest of the Villages. The addition of access across the Warm Springs bridge would be greatly appreciated.

This forum is NOT a place to make suggestions to the developer. Contact The Villages management and start the proper process for this type of undertaking. :bigbow::bigbow:

[JoMar]

This forum is NOT a place to make suggestions to the developer. Contact The Villages management and start the proper process for this type of undertaking. :bigbow::bigbow:

I thought the same thing then thought they were a new poster then saw they have been a member since 2013......7 years and they learned nothing?

[JoMar]

I think the Morse bridge is pretty crummy because it is 4-lane road with no median. The golf cart path looks very narrow. I think the new southern areas deserve better.




My wife and I like to walk when we play golf. We have nice cars that we truly enjoy driving. In a car vs cart encounter, I would rather be in the car. For example, at Turtle Mound a few days ago, a cart drove thru the stop sign on the MMP and almost hit us. We were happy that we were in our car.

Thanks I was just curious. There is a fear factor so you are not alone. Some of the other reasons I hear are the "get there itis" syndrome, the "I have no interest in the nature aspect here" and some don't understand (or again, not interested in) the social aspect the cart brings to the lifestyle and it's ability to expand that in your neighborhood. Everyone has a reason and I make no judgement, what works for you is what matters. Thanks for explanation.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

7 homes in golf course communities including the Bay Hill Country Club in Orlando . I don’t golf and no many others who don’t , to each his own , but I’m have no one interest in riding around with n a golf cart I would rather bike or walk and mostly in afternoons even in the summer and I don’t think in the 5 homes I’ve had here in the villages I’ve needed a golf cart to expand my living in the neighborhood

[VApeople]

some don't understand the social aspect the cart brings to the lifestyle

You worded that very well. We are definitely ones who do not understand.