The Democrat(Liberal) has a problem

[Guest]

The Democrat(Liberal) movement wants a secular social system which excludes God from public schools and public buildings.

Democrats(Liberals) want the Government to be our supreme power.

They want the private sector to do only what the Government wants them to do and to produce only what the Government tells them to produce.

The Democrats(Liberals) want the Government to manage and dictate our medical sevices, our education system and nearly all aspects of our lives.

The Democrats(Liberals) want to take from the producers and give to the non producers.

Many Democrats(Liberals) claim they do not think this way yet they continue to vote Democrat.

What kind of strange thinking makes Democrats(Liberals) vote to intentionally destroy our way of life.

God protect us from our self destruction.

[Guest]

The Democrat(Liberal) movement wants a secular social system which excludes God from public schools and public buildings.

Democrats(Liberals) want the Government to be our supreme power.

They want the private sector to do only what the Government wants them to do and to produce only what the Government tells them to produce.

The Democrats(Liberals) want the Government to manage and dictate our medical sevices, our education system and nearly all aspects of our lives.

The Democrats(Liberals) want to take from the producers and give to the non producers.

Many Democrats(Liberals) claim they do not want these things yet continue to vote Democrat.

What kind of strange thinking makes Democrats(Liberals) vote to intentionally destroy our way of life.

God protect us from our self destruction.

They also think that if they can get rid of God, they get rid of our inalienable rights that we were endowed with by said God (Creator)

Yoda

[Guest]

“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

-- Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals, opening page

This is the man that Hillary Rodham (Clinton) praised when she wrote her senior thesis at Wellesley College in 1969. She, like Obama, gives high praise to this man and are using his tactics to change America.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/19154398/Rules-for-Radicals-Training-PowerPoint

[Guest]

“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

-- Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals, opening page

This is the man that Hillary Rodham (Clinton) praised when she wrote her senior thesis at Wellesley College in 1969. She, like Obama, gives high praise to this man and are using his tactics to change America.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/19154398/Rules-for-Radicals-Training-PowerPoint

Yes, I have the book. "Know Thy Enemy."

Yoda

[Guest]

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

[Guest]

It isn't a mental disorder by any stretch of your imagination. Most people who are liberals have good intentions. But some of them don't, or can't reason beyond their intentions to what a great country this is and the Constitutional foundation that has supported us for many, many years.

[Guest]

It isn't a mental disorder by any stretch of your imagination. Most people who are liberals have good intentions. But some of them don't, or can't reason beyond their intentions to what a great country this is and the Constitutional foundation that has supported us for many, many years.

Still sounds like a mental disorder to me.:rolleyes:

[Guest]

Not to start an argument but I would like to hear those views that you feel make you a liberal. Not a Democrat or a republican but a human being who is a liberal.

This is directed tp Laurie91423

Thanks

Yoda

[Guest]

and credo of their party......as long as it does not affect them!!

Perhaps the reason why we do not hear from so very many of them...eh?

btk

[Guest]

Since I've been accused of being a Liberal here, I'll comment on each of your points and you can decide for yourself..

The Democrat(Liberal) movement wants a secular social system which excludes God from public schools and public buildings.

Democrats(Liberals) want the Government to be our supreme power.

They want the private sector to do only what the Government wants them to do and to produce only what the Government tells them to produce.

The Democrats(Liberals) want the Government to manage and dictate our medical sevices, our education system and nearly all aspects of our lives.

The Democrats(Liberals) want to take from the producers and give to the non producers.

Many Democrats(Liberals) claim they do not think this way yet they continue to vote Democrat.

What kind of strange thinking makes Democrats(Liberals) vote to intentionally destroy our way of life.

God protect us from our self destruction.

1. Damn right. God belongs in the home and church. It has no place in the public world. See how good "God" worked in Northern Ireland, the Middle East and Africa. Even Thomas Jefferson, a Deist, knew that.

2. I'd prefer if government was the REFEREE. They should be setting the rules and ensuring equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

3. There are times when the government SHOULD step in (like when rivers catch fire). That being said, they're going too far for my tastes.

4. Private insurance companies are reporting record profits. Yeah, right, government takeover - it was really a government BOONDOGGLE for them. As far as education goes, I honestly believe that the FEDERAL government should be doing little more than developing nationwide standards.

5. One COULD argue that the Other Party wants to give it all to the Oligarchy but that's a complicated argument. Fact: Our personal income taxes are lower than anytime since about the 1940s. (although our corporate taxes are 2nd worst in the industrialized world)

6. Obama was the first time I ever voted for a Democrat in the general election.

7. You start off with a question "What kind of thinking..." but end with a period. You're convinced that destruction is imminent from the tone of your post but you proceeding from thinking your opinions are fact. Reagan sad the tax cuts would eliminate the deficit. Obama said the stimulus would stop unemplyment's growth at 8.5%. Both were wrong. The Republic will survive - we just don't know in what shape.

8. "God" nothing. Pray all you want - NOTHING will help unless people help themselves. I could have prayed until starvation in 2004 and it would have done me no good. Vote. Work. Save your money. Speak out - and avoid demagoguery so that your opponents can't TOUCH you. Lying or exaggerating just to make things sounds bigger than your opponent do you no good. The Democrats did it about Palin - and she had enough faults to self-destruct ANYway. The GOP does it about Obama (like claiming Obama wants to rescind ALL the Bush tax cuts).

[Guest]

to say "GOD nothing and that praying doesn't help.
You are only qualified in both cases to speak for yourself.
GOD and prayer plays a larger role in the lives of most Americans...always did..always has...always will.
Thank GOD for that.

It has only been in recent years with the decay of our moral standards, the political correctness disease, the don't offend anybody syndrome and the disgusting catering to special interest minority (not race) groups has there been a so called cry to get rid of the symbols of many of our core values.

The majority rules....or at least it used to until current times. It seems to be OK to go against the will of the people to satisfy the few. Upset the many is OK...so the few can go on to the next value to destroy. Makes no sense.

btk

[Guest]

to say "GOD nothing and that praying doesn't help.
You are only qualified in both cases to speak for yourself.
GOD and prayer plays a larger role in the lives of most Americans...always did..always has...always will.
Thank GOD for that.

It has only been in recent years with the decay of our moral standards, the political correctness disease, the don't offend anybody syndrome and the disgusting catering to special interest minority (not race) groups has there been a so called cry to get rid of the symbols of many of our core values.

The majority rules....or at least it used to until current times. It seems to be OK to go against the will of the people to satisfy the few. Upset the many is OK...so the few can go on to the next value to destroy. Makes no sense.

btk


:BigApplause:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

[Guest]

Since I've been accused of being a Liberal here, I'll comment on each of your points and you can decide for yourself..



1. Damn right. God belongs in the home and church. It has no place in the public world. See how good "God" worked in Northern Ireland, the Middle East and Africa. Even Thomas Jefferson, a Deist, knew that.

2. I'd prefer if government was the REFEREE. They should be setting the rules and ensuring equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

3. There are times when the government SHOULD step in (like when rivers catch fire). That being said, they're going too far for my tastes.

4. Private insurance companies are reporting record profits. Yeah, right, government takeover - it was really a government BOONDOGGLE for them. As far as education goes, I honestly believe that the FEDERAL government should be doing little more than developing nationwide standards.

5. One COULD argue that the Other Party wants to give it all to the Oligarchy but that's a complicated argument. Fact: Our personal income taxes are lower than anytime since about the 1940s. (although our corporate taxes are 2nd worst in the industrialized world)

6. Obama was the first time I ever voted for a Democrat in the general election.

7. You start off with a question "What kind of thinking..." but end with a period. You're convinced that destruction is imminent from the tone of your post but you proceeding from thinking your opinions are fact. Reagan sad the tax cuts would eliminate the deficit. Obama said the stimulus would stop unemplyment's growth at 8.5%. Both were wrong. The Republic will survive - we just don't know in what shape.

8. "God" nothing. Pray all you want - NOTHING will help unless people help themselves. I could have prayed until starvation in 2004 and it would have done me no good. Vote. Work. Save your money. Speak out - and avoid demagoguery so that your opponents can't TOUCH you. Lying or exaggerating just to make things sounds bigger than your opponent do you no good. The Democrats did it about Palin - and she had enough faults to self-destruct ANYway. The GOP does it about Obama (like claiming Obama wants to rescind ALL the Bush tax cuts).

I have seen most of your postings. If I had not I would consider this posting by you to be the confession of an avowed socialist.

Sorry????????????? There do you feel better.

[Guest]

to say "GOD nothing and that praying doesn't help.
You are only qualified in both cases to speak for yourself.
GOD and prayer plays a larger role in the lives of most Americans...always did..always has...always will.
Thank GOD for that.

It has only been in recent years with the decay of our moral standards, the political correctness disease, the don't offend anybody syndrome and the disgusting catering to special interest minority (not race) groups has there been a so called cry to get rid of the symbols of many of our core values.

The majority rules....or at least it used to until current times. It seems to be OK to go against the will of the people to satisfy the few. Upset the many is OK...so the few can go on to the next value to destroy. Makes no sense.

btk

Let me be more specific then - prayer without action will do nothing. You can sit there and be as pious as you want - but without DOING something, nothing will happen.

And "the recent years" of our moral decay??? While I agree that you can point to several things that aren't as they should be - would you rather go back to those more 'godly' times of slavery, treating women like chattel, tribal warfare, etc? And I grant you that this is my personal hot button, but to claim that the moral decay of the country is due to having 'God' expelled from public schools while the Catholic Church was out raping children shows a certain blindness.

Read what I wrote - God belongs in the home and the Church. I recall a certain passage regarding the opinion Jesus had of people who had to shout their faith from everywhere and make it known to everyone.

Majority rules? If that were true, blacks would still be in the back of the bus and drinking from "colored" fountains and being arrested at "whites only" places!

Even the founding fathers spoke of the "tyranny of the majority".

That being said, we DO seem to be going a little overboard in what the word "accomodate" means when it comes to the government.

[Guest]

Let me be more specific then - prayer without action will do nothing. You can sit there and be as pious as you want - but without DOING something, nothing will happen.

And "the recent years" of our moral decay??? While I agree that you can point to several things that aren't as they should be - would you rather go back to those more 'godly' times of slavery, treating women like chattel, tribal warfare, etc? And I grant you that this is my personal hot button, but to claim that the moral decay of the country is due to having 'God' expelled from public schools while the Catholic Church was out raping children shows a certain blindness.

Read what I wrote - God belongs in the home and the Church. I recall a certain passage regarding the opinion Jesus had of people who had to shout their faith from everywhere and make it known to everyone.

Majority rules? If that were true, blacks would still be in the back of the bus and drinking from "colored" fountains and being arrested at "whites only" places!

Even the founding fathers spoke of the "tyranny of the majority".

That being said, we DO seem to be going a little overboard in what the word "accomodate" means when it comes to the government.

Sometimes I don't think we can see the forest for the trees when we try to have discussions like this. We all have many valid and good points, but often it comes to arguing apples and oranges. You can't paint everything in such broad strokes like when you jump from moral decay and having Christian values back in this nation to segregation and tribal warfare. It doesn't make sense to me. There's much more in the discussion than just generalization like some we all make.

For instance, I don't personally think the Catholic Church should take the victim's posture. But when you clump all Catholics or the Catholic Church under a shadow of the sins of some, that is what some have been chastised for when it comes to Islam and the Muslims on this forum.

[Guest]

Let me be more specific then - prayer without action will do nothing. You can sit there and be as pious as you want - but without DOING something, nothing will happen.

And "the recent years" of our moral decay??? While I agree that you can point to several things that aren't as they should be - would you rather go back to those more 'godly' times of slavery, treating women like chattel, tribal warfare, etc? And I grant you that this is my personal hot button, but to claim that the moral decay of the country is due to having 'God' expelled from public schools while the Catholic Church was out raping children shows a certain blindness.

Read what I wrote - God belongs in the home and the Church. I recall a certain passage regarding the opinion Jesus had of people who had to shout their faith from everywhere and make it known to everyone.

Majority rules? If that were true, blacks would still be in the back of the bus and drinking from "colored" fountains and being arrested at "whites only" places!

Even the founding fathers spoke of the "tyranny of the majority".

That being said, we DO seem to be going a little overboard in what the word "accomodate" means when it comes to the government.

Man, your so all over the place I wouldn't know where to start addressing your inaccuracies. What has taken God from the schools have to do with a few wayward priests?
And that crap about blacks is an insult to all my ancestors who died fighting the civil war.

And if you do not see the moral decay out there then you are blind, sir.

Oh, by the way, you think woman are treated better now? wow.

[Guest]

bk: That is exactly my point. If we treated the Catholic Church the same way many want to treat Islam, we would have had the National Guard closing all Catholic schools because the country would have been outraged that the Church that protected the hundreds of priests who *raped* thousands upon thousands of children were operating SCHOOLS and CHILDREN'S CAMPS (I went to CYO when I was young).

Prosecute the criminals, not the entire 'label'.

Pats2010: My point was directed at the "majority rules" comment. The "majority" thought segregation was just ducky - in the same way that it was ok to own blacks a century before. It was a big rallying cry that Washington should stay out of local affairs.

And as far as the Civil War is concerned, there's been a big push to try and paint it as more a "states rights" issue instead of a slavery issue. That's true to an extent - but just look at the Confederate Constitution and you'll see that slavery was enshrined into law *and* state's rights were ignored. You HAD to be a slave state to join and you COULD NOT vote to outlaw slavery as a member of the CSA.

And, yes, I know that a lot of people fought and died for the Confederacy on the principal of fighting for their State. But would that be the first time that good men died fighting for a self-contradicting government? Would it be the last?

Now, to try and calm the rising temperature here (and I'm as guilty as any), can you tell me where you're coming from when you ask about how women are treated now? What are you comparing? I'm not baiting you, I'm genuinely interested in what you were thinking.

[Guest]

I so wish you watched the Founder's Friday djplong. I know you have been extremely busy. I'm not being critical. The previous Black Founders' episodes were so educational and gave so many references to read and learn more about Black history in America and the Civil War.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=djplong;280925]Let me be more specific then - prayer without action will do nothing. You can sit there and be as pious as you want - but without DOING something, nothing will happen.

My guess is that you don't have much experience with prayer.

Praying, is doing something.

Yoda

[Guest]

[QUOTE=djplong;280976]bk: That is exactly my point. If we treated the Catholic Church the same way many want to treat Islam, we would have had the National Guard closing all Catholic schools because the country would have been outraged that the Church that protected the hundreds of priests who *raped* thousands upon thousands of children were operating SCHOOLS and CHILDREN'S CAMPS (I went to CYO when I was young).



Can I just say that I went to 12 years of Catholic education and Mass every Sunday and knew and interacted with and sought and received counseling from more than a few Priests in those years and never once was I made to feel uncomfortable in their presence.

Also, I've never heard a priest or Catholic say that people who won't convert to our religion should be forced to or killed and that the women of those who won't convert are free to be taken.

Also I've never had a Catholic priest attempt to get me to put on a bomb laden vest and kill myself and anyone who is attempting to live a non-Catholic life and that by doing so I would be rewarded in Heaven.

Also I've never had a Catholic priest tell me if my sister or daughter did not want to remain a Catholic or refused to marry a Catholic of my choosing that I should kill my sister or daughter to protect her honor and the honor of Catholicism.

I could say more, but you get what I'm saying. (I know, I know; you knew Muslims in Boston)
.

[Guest]

bk: Yeah, I should be catching mroe of those. "Founding Fridays" was a pleasant surprise when I was deliberately trying to watch Glenn Beck.

Yoda: I think we're coming at this from two different ends. Someone else posted the story of the man who drowned at his house thinking God would save him with the 'punch line' of God saying "I sent you a truck a boat and a helicopter, why didn't you take any of them?".

Richie: To address your points in order.

I went to Catholic School (St. Williams in Boston, St. Theresa in Staten Island) as well. I was an altar boy at St. Theresa's. Not once did I encounter any priest who did any of the horrors that have been reported. In addition, the priest who officiated my first wedding was once of the nicest guys I ever knew. This is what I mean about not painting with a broad brush.

The Catholics have given up "conversion by the sword". For the most part, so have Muslims - the Wahabbists and their ilk being the noisy exceptions. But, then, Catholics have had a several hundred year head start on 'being civilized'. Let's not forget that the Salem Witch Trials were only a few hundred years ago and the "troubles" in Northern Ireland have only just now calmed down.

Today's bomb-laden vest is yesterday's Crusader. Today's massacre at a marketplace is yesterday's "Burning Times". Today's Madras is yesterday's inquisition chamber. And honor killings still go on in that VERY Christian country of Brazil.

Yes, I get what you're saying. But if we forget our past, we're condemned to repeat it. Christianity has a LOT of blood on it's hands. It is to their credit that it's such a minority now (but there are the "Christian Soldier" types out there - just not doing much damage as far as I can see).

Religion is a deeply personal and PRIVATE matter and has no place in government (specific religions, that is).

[Guest]

bk: Yeah, I should be catching mroe of those. "Founding Fridays" was a pleasant surprise when I was deliberately trying to watch Glenn Beck.

Yoda: I think we're coming at this from two different ends. Someone else posted the story of the man who drowned at his house thinking God would save him with the 'punch line' of God saying "I sent you a truck a boat and a helicopter, why didn't you take any of them?".

Richie: To address your points in order.

I went to Catholic School (St. Williams in Boston, St. Theresa in Staten Island) as well. I was an altar boy at St. Theresa's. Not once did I encounter any priest who did any of the horrors that have been reported. In addition, the priest who officiated my first wedding was once of the nicest guys I ever knew. This is what I mean about not painting with a broad brush.

The Catholics have given up "conversion by the sword". For the most part, so have Muslims - the Wahabbists and their ilk being the noisy exceptions. But, then, Catholics have had a several hundred year head start on 'being civilized'. Let's not forget that the Salem Witch Trials were only a few hundred years ago and the "troubles" in Northern Ireland have only just now calmed down.

Today's bomb-laden vest is yesterday's Crusader. Today's massacre at a marketplace is yesterday's "Burning Times". Today's Madras is yesterday's inquisition chamber. And honor killings still go on in that VERY Christian country of Brazil.

Yes, I get what you're saying. But if we forget our past, we're condemned to repeat it. Christianity has a LOT of blood on it's hands. It is to their credit that it's such a minority now (but there are the "Christian Soldier" types out there - just not doing much damage as far as I can see).

Religion is a deeply personal and PRIVATE matter and has no place in government (specific religions, that is).

Gee, I wonder if Christianity has ever done any good anywhere? After reading your posts I will have to do some research to see if they are as bad as you say.

[Guest]

Well, obviously you did NOT read my post. I'll quote:


I went to Catholic School (St. Williams in Boston, St. Theresa in Staten Island) as well. I was an altar boy at St. Theresa's. Not once did I encounter any priest who did any of the horrors that have been reported. In addition, the priest who officiated my first wedding was once of the nicest guys I ever knew. This is what I mean about not painting with a broad brush.


Once again, and I'll keep repeating it as long as I have to, my issue is the double standard and painting with a broad brush.

[Guest]

"GODly" times and then qualify the time by referencing the negatives like slavery, etc....aren't you tainting the time in question to suit your purpose.

Yes I would as the majority my age would love to see a return to the good old days when there was a much higher code of ethics and our core values as Americans were stronger and not diluted by special interests.

And I totally disagree with your notion that religion only belongs in the home or in church. It has never been that way and as long as we the people still count, it will not be cloistered that way now or in the future.

I do respect that may be your opinion and for now am happy it is a minority (not race) report.

btk

[Guest]

Bill: Maybe we can narrow things down a bit.

I'm NOT being sarcastic here.. Can you tell me, at least generally, what kinds of ethics you're talking about?

I mean, politicians have ALWAYS been crooked - we just hear more about it now.

Religion has ALWAYS had it's dark side - but we didn't used to have a series of 24/7 news outlets to tell us.

Today's "unwed mother" was yesterday's "daughter gone off to visit her aunt for a few months".

And as far as religion being outside the home goes - do you think that EVERYTHING should be closed on Sundays? Or if the tables were reversed, do you think it would be ok for the government to tell you that you couldn't drive a car after sundown on Friday (if Orthodox Judaism were the law of the land and you were a Christian)?

So when you talk about "the good old days", can you be a bit more specific?

[Guest]

Bill: Maybe we can narrow things down a bit.

I'm NOT being sarcastic here.. Can you tell me, at least generally, what kinds of ethics you're talking about?

I mean, politicians have ALWAYS been crooked - we just hear more about it now.

Religion has ALWAYS had it's dark side - but we didn't used to have a series of 24/7 news outlets to tell us.

Today's "unwed mother" was yesterday's "daughter gone off to visit her aunt for a few months".

And as far as religion being outside the home goes - do you think that EVERYTHING should be closed on Sundays? Or if the tables were reversed, do you think it would be ok for the government to tell you that you couldn't drive a car after sundown on Friday (if Orthodox Judaism were the law of the land and you were a Christian)?

So when you talk about "the good old days", can you be a bit more specific?

Time restraints permit to only address one of your comparisons. Years ago a female may have been sent away to have a baby. One reason would be to save embarrassment ( such old fashioned values) and another would be to give the baby up for adoption since a single woman in those days could not support herself never mind a baby, too.

Now a days the stigma of unwed mothers has basically gone by the wayside. Women today feel no shame and are actually encouraged to have a baby without visible means of support. Why? They know that the taxpayers will pick up the tab.
Isn't progress great?

[Guest]

Ok, given what you said - tell me.. Who is encouraging women to have a baby without visible means of support?

Who's out there saying "do this!"?

I would counter that it is actually MEN who are abdicating THEIR responsibilities and there's a vaccuum in the place of whomever or whatever should be encoraging or forcing men to live up to their responsibilities.

Now, what's caused that? I don't know if there's any SINGLE cause. Who knows? Maybe men got caught up in the "women's lib" movement and figured they could be 'more' independant too. But we all know that minorities are disproportionately represented when it comes to single parenthood.

At least welfare reform helped curb some of the generational abuses (like the Ventura case in Boston with over 100 family members in 4 generations all on the dole).