Is Anyone Else Alarmed?

[Villages Kahuna]

Is anyone else alarmed that the disclosure of the recipients of more than $500 billion in bailout money delivered to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is such a big secret?. Questions directed to the Treasury Department were answered by saying that information was “proprietary” and “confidential”.

Why? That amount of our taxpayer funds is not insignificant. Heck, the entire budget of the Defense Department is $617 billion! Would we accept that what was being spent by the DOD is a big secret?

I don’t think so. Why?

[BobnBev]

I'm not alarmed, disgusted yes, but not alarmed. To get the info you want, you will have to go all the way to the Supreme Court. Big brother will only tell you what they want you to know.:ohdear:

[vintageogauge]

These are loans that went through private banks, I doubt there will be a list of the banks customers made public unless the businesses agree to it.

[BS Beef]

I think we're losing site of the fact that all these loans, bailouts, what ever you'd like to call them aren't really free. The money has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is taxpayers pocketbooks.:swear: :cus:

[retiredguy123]

I have always been alarmed that all expenditure of taxpayer money is not disclosed. It should be public information.

[Gpsma]

Alarmed no. Perhaps too many here are living in their Social Security/Pension bubble...with no debt.

How about wondering about all the small businesses closed down with employees without work?

But unless u gave your stimulis check to charity....then dont complain that small businesses need help

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I think we're losing site of the fact that all these loans, bailouts, what ever you'd like to call them aren't really free. The money has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is taxpayers pocketbooks.:swear: :cus:

Some of us aren't losing sight of that. What we are losing sight of, is who is in possession of our money. We are losing sight of that, because the people our elected officials have chosen to trust with that information, have chosen not to keep us informed.

If this was a matter of national security - I'd say yeah - we don't need to know exactly who has the money. I'd totally understand that. We don't "need" to know that Lockheed-Martin got the bid award for the secret helicopter project that shoots missiles with precision aim while hanging upside down, with 27 Portuguese Water Dogs specially trained to carry bombs are tossed out in self-pulling parachutes over the enemy compound.

But we should know that Darden Restaurants (owner of Chili's) received 10M while Bob's Diner's application wasn't even considered because they ran out of money before he turned it in - which was 2 weeks BEFORE the deadline.

We don't necessarily have the "right" to the first wad of taxpayer dough's information. But we should necessarily have the "right" to the second wad's info.

[rustyp]

Alarmed no. Perhaps too many here are living in their Social Security/Pension bubble...with no debt.

How about wondering about all the small businesses closed down with employees without work?

But unless u gave your stimulis check to charity....then dont complain that small businesses need help

I hired a small business to do work that I normally would have done myself with my stimulus. Does that count ?

[Villagerjjm]

….and you said the U.S.A. would never go Socialist...… SMH !!

[John41]

No big secret. Treasury has already disclosed who got the money and who, like Harvard, had to give some back thanks to the Treasury. What irritates me is that some of that taxpayer money is going to criminal illegal aliens. And some states want the taxpayer to bail out their pension funds. Also these states were involved in distributing some of the money, not just the Treasury, and their antiquated COBOL systems aren’t up to the job.

[JoMar]

Alarmed no......I no longer get crazed over stuff I can't change or control. I have no desire to run for office nor do I believe my representatives care about anything except getting my vote. That's why they send form letters. So far their strategy works, they keep getting re-elected.

[ColdNoMore]

Surely, the secrecy can't be a result that a disproportionate amount went to those who are "connected"...could it?


Nahh, silly me, with all of the transparency that's been displayed...that could never happen. :oops:

[Viperguy]

And the uninformed just blindly follow what they hear from friends (or on tv). This country is in deep trouble.

[Nannyof3]

Who are the illegal aliens?

[J1ceasar]

Would you really Really like to know which bank got money? should have people put a run on it can cause more problems

[Paper1]

I think we're losing site of the fact that all these loans, bailouts, what ever you'd like to call them aren't really free. The money has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is taxpayers pocketbooks.:swear: :cus:
Actually no, this money is coming from our grandchildren's futures not current taxpayers. That is why there is little concern.

[ColdNoMore]

Would you really Really like to know which bank got money? should have people put a run on it can cause more problems

Seriously? :oops:

You're not aware that the money was intended to be loaned out, not hoarded to increase stock price...and pay executive salaries and bonuses. :ohdear:

[toeser]

I think we're losing site of the fact that all these loans, bailouts, what ever you'd like to call them aren't really free. The money has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is taxpayers pocketbooks.:swear: :cus:

Actually, the money is not coming from taxpayers. It's being printed up by the Fed. It will just be added to the pile of IOU's that is building up, called our national debt. It will never be paid off and someday we will have a gigantic financial collapse. I am hoping it will be timed for after I'm gone.

[Woolyg]

Just an FYI... Darden's owns the following restaurants... from their website

"Darden's brands include LongHorn Steakhouse, Olive Garden, Cheddar's Scratch Kitchen, Eddie V's Prime Seafood, The Capital Grille, Bahama Breeze and Seasons 52".


Some of us aren't losing sight of that. What we are losing sight of, is who is in possession of our money. We are losing sight of that, because the people our elected officials have chosen to trust with that information, have chosen not to keep us informed.

If this was a matter of national security - I'd say yeah - we don't need to know exactly who has the money. I'd totally understand that. We don't "need" to know that Lockheed-Martin got the bid award for the secret helicopter project that shoots missiles with precision aim while hanging upside down, with 27 Portuguese Water Dogs specially trained to carry bombs are tossed out in self-pulling parachutes over the enemy compound.

But we should know that Darden Restaurants (owner of Chili's) received 10M while Bob's Diner's application wasn't even considered because they ran out of money before he turned it in - which was 2 weeks BEFORE the deadline.

We don't necessarily have the "right" to the first wad of taxpayer dough's information. But we should necessarily have the "right" to the second wad's info.

[kanoa1kale2]

No big secret. Treasury has already disclosed who got the money and who, like Harvard, had to give some back thanks to the Treasury. What irritates me is that some of that taxpayer money is going to criminal illegal aliens. And some states want the taxpayer to bail out their pension funds. Also these states were involved in distributing some of the money, not just the Treasury, and their antiquated COBOL systems aren’t up to the job.

Had to respond - COBOL is ancient - If kept updated, it will continue to do the job it was programmed for. One got writers cramps coding it. They also still use Big OS in DC. Most who knew anything about that are dead and gone. Strange that they have so much trouble replacing these older systems.

[davem4616]

I hired a small business to do work that I normally would have done myself with my stimulus. Does that count ?


It certainly counts in my book. Good on you!

We did the same... and what was left over we donated to the Salvation Army and to a small church up in Belleview that supports a lot of folks in need

[rjackson1759]

Is anyone else alarmed that the disclosure of the recipients of more than $500 billion in bailout money delivered to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is such a big secret?. Questions directed to the Treasury Department were answered by saying that information was “proprietary” and “confidential”.

Why? That amount of our taxpayer funds is not insignificant. Heck, the entire budget of the Defense Department is $617 billion! Would we accept that what was being spent by the DOD is a big secret?

I don’t think so. Why?
Agreed, categorically!! This was 'public money' and the 'public' that sent it to the Treasury should have the benefit of knowinbg who got what.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Too bad there were far fewer small businesses getting the loans than large companies. Rich get richer. Small businesses shutter up. Sad.

[kendi]

Alarmed no. Perhaps too many here are living in their Social Security/Pension bubble...with no debt.

How about wondering about all the small businesses closed down with employees without work?

But unless u gave your stimulis check to charity....then dont complain that small businesses need help

No one is complaining about them needing help. This thread is about disclosing which businesses received a check. Not if they should have gotten it or not.

[Mustagotlost]

No big secret. Treasury has already disclosed who got the money and who, like Harvard, had to give some back thanks to the Treasury. What irritates me is that some of that taxpayer money is going to criminal illegal aliens. And some states want the taxpayer to bail out their pension funds. Also these states were involved in distributing some of the money, not just the Treasury, and their antiquated COBOL systems aren’t up to the job.
CA is the worst offender. Public employees and teachers, I think, are sometimes paid double their wages while they were working.

[Lindsyburnsy]

One thing uncovers the next. First we have a right to know who got these loans. Once we know that, we will know who did or didn’t need those loans.

No one is complaining about them needing help. This thread is about disclosing which businesses received a check. Not if they should have gotten it or not.

[bobnyce]

There is no taxpayer money! Most of the budget is run on borrowed money. Taxpayers hardly pay the operating cost of government today. We are operating on the backs of our grandchildren who will never pay off the debt we have left them. If you think the admitted debt is all there is, try asking about all of the unfunded pension promises at the local, school, county, state and federal level that no one ever talks about. We are broke!!!! So how do we fix it - borrow more money from China and ourselves. How about that. We have no money, but we believe we do, so we print more based on the Government's promise that someday we will be able to pay it to ourselves! If you really do believe then I have a bridge for sale. What we have done to our successors, children and grandchildren is inexplicable and disgusting but then again - we got ours let them get theirs!

[OhioBuckeye]

Is anyone else alarmed that the disclosure of the recipients of more than $500 billion in bailout money delivered to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is such a big secret?. Questions directed to the Treasury Department were answered by saying that information was “proprietary” and “confidential”.

Why? That amount of our taxpayer funds is not insignificant. Heck, the entire budget of the Defense Department is $617 billion! Would we accept that what was being spent by the DOD is a big secret?

I don’t think so. Why?

Since I’m not allowed to mention a party because TOTV will ban me again but some of the money bails out businesses that’s been bankrupt before & they want to bail them out again. Bailout money & stimulus money doesn’t necessarily do what it meant for, you know the politicians won’t tell you exactly what they really do with OUR tax money!

[Dana1963]

Sadly everyone knows what each individual received. It’s the TAX PAYERS MONEY not Steve Munchin’ money or Trumps. Simply put by not disclosing who would be held accountable! Is anyone else alarmed that the disclosure of the recipients of more than $500 billion in bailout money delivered to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is such a big secret?. Questions directed to the Treasury Department were answered by saying that information was “proprietary” and “confidential”.

Why? That amount of our taxpayer funds is not insignificant. Heck, the entire budget of the Defense Department is $617 billion! Would we accept that what was being spent by the DOD is a big secret?

I don’t think so. Why?

[theruizs]

Alarmed no. Perhaps too many here are living in their Social Security/Pension bubble...with no debt.

How about wondering about all the small businesses closed down with employees without work?

But unless u gave your stimulis check to charity....then dont complain that small businesses need help

I don’t think that was the OP’s point at all. For me the point was how do we know that money actually got spent the way it was supposed to be spent and didn’t just end up lining someone’s pocket.

[Texased]

There are many more immediate things to be alarmed about such as the taking over of downtown Seattle by anarchists, shooting of police, looting, burning, etc.

[ffresh]

Actually, the money is not coming from taxpayers. It's being printed up by the Fed. It will just be added to the pile of IOU's that is building up, called our national debt. It will never be paid off and someday we will have a gigantic financial collapse. I am hoping it will be timed for after I'm gone.

Not quite comprehensive enough in your analysis, LOL. What you say is true but, in addition, the Federal Reserve, which is neither federal (it's private, nor is there anything in reserve), mostly creates fiat currency (backed by nothing of value such as gold or silver) with computer entries. The interest alone on the national debt (479 billion) is staggering, not to mention the "on the book" debt itself (23 trillion) - "off the books" debt is estimated by some to be much greater. There would be no reason for the US Treasury to incur this interest if it coined its own money, as the Constitution establishes as its role, but the scam is for the Fed central bank to print money out of thin air and "lend" it to the Treasury with interest. You and I would be locked up and the key thrown away for far less of an infraction but this has been going on since 1913. The main take away, however, in this case, is that all of that fiat currency (not actually money which has value) in circulation will eventually drive prices up dramatically - the only question is how much inflation we'll have and when it will become completely evident to the consumer - but it will!

And, for the record (though it may not matter), this is about history and economics :icon_wink:

Fred :spoken:

[Jerseybob]

Alarmed? no.
Surprised? no.

I have friends that own small businesses that were told they were behind 42,000 other applicants that did got read or considered as the funding was 100% obligated prior to the end of the filing date.

So Steak and Shake returned the $10m commitment they were offered. Did they return the money out of embarrassment and potential brand damage or was it returned due to private funding that had no rules to be followed? I can only wonder if that funding was made available to other applicants in need. The link is to the New York times article regarding the return and the funding.

Shake Shack Will Return Its $10 Million Loan Amid Furor Over Stimulus Program - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/business/shake-shack-returning-loan-ppp-coronavirus.html)

.

I would like to see a searchable data base open to the public for the distribution of the fund. It should include:
1. The name and address of the company,
2. The type of business
3. The name(s) of the owner(s) regardless of LCC or other status
4. Number of full time and part time employees as per the application
5. The amount funded
6. If compliant documents for fund expenditures were received (no return of funds)
7. If complaint docs not sent or rules not followed, how much funding is expect returned

Just my humble opinion.

[justjim]

I have always been alarmed that all expenditure of taxpayer money is not disclosed. It should be public information.

A billion here, a billion there and pretty soon it adds up to some real money. Our grandchildren are going to have a real challenge to pay for all this spending.

[ffresh]

There is no taxpayer money! Most of the budget is run on borrowed money. Taxpayers hardly pay the operating cost of government today. We are operating on the backs of our grandchildren who will never pay off the debt we have left them. If you think the admitted debt is all there is, try asking about all of the unfunded pension promises at the local, school, county, state and federal level that no one ever talks about. We are broke!!!! So how do we fix it - borrow more money from China and ourselves. How about that. We have no money, but we believe we do, so we print more based on the Government's promise that someday we will be able to pay it to ourselves! If you really do believe then I have a bridge for sale. What we have done to our successors, children and grandchildren is inexplicable and disgusting but then again - we got ours let them get theirs!

The only clarification I would add is that "we" is not me (and probably not you). We have been "sold a bill of goods" by charlatans on both sides of the aisle who, as me Grammy used to say, "spend money like drunken sailors" (not to demean drunken sailors by lumping them in with politicians) in order to further their agendas and ensure their continued reign over the "great unwashed" (us). There will be nothing to "get" as this country goes the way of all former great civilizations and fades into the dustbin of history - SAD - when you think about what The Founders bequeathed us - "a Republic, if you can keep it" :ohdear:

Fred

[chet2020]

If the $500 billion was well spent, the Feds would like us to know. They do not want us to know, so what does that tell you? I'll take a wild guess. It went to mostly to companies of rich donors, administration grifters, and battleground states.

[jimjamuser]

Is anyone else alarmed that the disclosure of the recipients of more than $500 billion in bailout money delivered to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is such a big secret?. Questions directed to the Treasury Department were answered by saying that information was “proprietary” and “confidential”.

Why? That amount of our taxpayer funds is not insignificant. Heck, the entire budget of the Defense Department is $617 billion! Would we accept that what was being spent by the DOD is a big secret?

I don’t think so. Why?
Great suntan! The Supreme Court term should be no longer than 6 years. I agree. And the PPE should have ONLY been for businesses with 10 or fewer employees. THAT is a small business.

[jimjamuser]

Some of us aren't losing sight of that. What we are losing sight of, is who is in possession of our money. We are losing sight of that, because the people our elected officials have chosen to trust with that information, have chosen not to keep us informed.

If this was a matter of national security - I'd say yeah - we don't need to know exactly who has the money. I'd totally understand that. We don't "need" to know that Lockheed-Martin got the bid award for the secret helicopter project that shoots missiles with precision aim while hanging upside down, with 27 Portuguese Water Dogs specially trained to carry bombs are tossed out in self-pulling parachutes over the enemy compound.

But we should know that Darden Restaurants (owner of Chili's) received 10M while Bob's Diner's application wasn't even considered because they ran out of money before he turned it in - which was 2 weeks BEFORE the deadline.

We don't necessarily have the "right" to the first wad of taxpayer dough's information. But we should necessarily have the "right" to the second wad's info.
Great post.

[JoelJohnson]

No big secret. Treasury has already disclosed who got the money and who, like Harvard, had to give some back thanks to the Treasury. What irritates me is that some of that taxpayer money is going to criminal illegal aliens. And some states want the taxpayer to bail out their pension funds. Also these states were involved in distributing some of the money, not just the Treasury, and their antiquated COBOL systems aren’t up to the job.

COBOL is not the problem, when you don't upgrade your hardware to take care of future problems, then you create a problem. If you never heard of DOS (denial of service) then it means that a company's server (or the states or city or whatever) gets overwhelmed by the number of requests it gets. You can't put 10LBS of rocks in a 5LB bag. The state (or whatever) needs to upgrade, but that takes money and time.

But to your first point, the $500B in this last round was not disclosed. It IS our money and we are not talking national security here, just business that got our money.

[jimjamuser]

There are many more immediate things to be alarmed about such as the taking over of downtown Seattle by anarchists, shooting of police, looting, burning, etc.
One man's worry about looting is another man's socially important and citizen's responsibility to change society when necessary for the betterment of all.

[jimjamuser]

The only clarification I would add is that "we" is not me (and probably not you). We have been "sold a bill of goods" by charlatans on both sides of the aisle who, as me Grammy used to say, "spend money like drunken sailors" (not to demean drunken sailors by lumping them in with politicians) in order to further their agendas and ensure their continued reign over the "great unwashed" (us). There will be nothing to "get" as this country goes the way of all former great civilizations and fades into the dustbin of history - SAD - when you think about what The Founders bequeathed us - "a Republic, if you can keep it" :ohdear:

Fred
Well said, Fred and it rhymes. Very thought-provoking.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No big secret. Treasury has already disclosed who got the money and who, like Harvard, had to give some back thanks to the Treasury. What irritates me is that some of that taxpayer money is going to criminal illegal aliens. And some states want the taxpayer to bail out their pension funds. Also these states were involved in distributing some of the money, not just the Treasury, and their antiquated COBOL systems aren’t up to the job.

1: Harvard did not receive business stimulus funding. It received funding that was set aside specifically for universities and other higher education entities. It received less than some other schools in the greater Boston area, and dedicated 100% of it to relieving financial aid obligations for students who needed it. Only 50% was required to be dedicated to that.
2. It irritates me that some of the money is going to criminal LEGAL citizens. Scofflaws, scoundrels, rogues, thieves, burglars, wife-abusers, sexual molesters - they're ALL getting this money. That bothers me a lot more than the occasional slip-up in accounting that gives an undocumented kid money, because there are a lot more of Americans who commit criminal acts in our country, than there are undocumented immigrants who commit criminal acts in our country.

The American citizen who molests his daughter, to me, is more of a concern than a Christian man from Venezuela who gets his son smuggled into the USA to save his life from gang wars. Your mileage may vary, but I'd MUCH prefer to have to learn spanish to understand my new next door neighbor, than have to listen to the screams of a 10-year-old being molested by her daddy.

[blklabfan]

Please correct me if I misunderstood, but didn't the House demand, and receive, fiscal oversight of the funds?
If so, I would expect a full accounting sometime in the future.:bigbow:

[ALadysMom]

Had to respond - COBOL is ancient - If kept updated, it will continue to do the job it was programmed for. One got writers cramps coding it. They also still use Big OS in DC. Most who knew anything about that are dead and gone. Strange that they have so much trouble replacing these older systems.

This post is mostly false. COBOL is still used, though less frequently. Those of us who learned It back in the day did not get writers cramps because it was tediously entered on keyboards to punched cards and debugged on huge green-screen tractor feed paper. My oldest son, now a robotics computer engineer, also had to learn it and used it at his internship at FERMI National Science Labs in 2009. I am, thankfully, alive and many of my classmates are very much alive too.

[ALadysMom]

Did you also demand a full accounting of the “shovel-ready“ stimulus Under the last administration? I don’t remember seeing any of those companies publicly shamed for taking advantage of a government program that was designed to benefit them.

Transparency is generally good but divulging sensitive financial data could produce unintended consequences for those that all of our leaders wanted to help.

[Heyitsrick]

Is anyone else alarmed that the disclosure of the recipients of more than $500 billion in bailout money delivered to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is such a big secret?. Questions directed to the Treasury Department were answered by saying that information was “proprietary” and “confidential”.

Why? That amount of our taxpayer funds is not insignificant. Heck, the entire budget of the Defense Department is $617 billion! Would we accept that what was being spent by the DOD is a big secret?

I don’t think so. Why?

The "why" has already been reported:

"On Thursday, a Treasury spokesman said Mnuchin’s position reflected concern that publishing “loan-level” data with borrowers’ identities would risk disclosing proprietary information about millions of small businesses, and the salaries of sole proprietors and independent contractors. That’s because PPP loan amounts are calculated using the applicants’ payrolls."

Now, will the court(s) agree with this privacy assertion, or will they allow the release of the recipients information? Well, that's what courts are for.

[ALadysMom]

1: Harvard did not receive business stimulus funding. It received funding that was set aside specifically for universities and other higher education entities. It received less than some other schools in the greater Boston area, and dedicated 100% of it to relieving financial aid obligations for students who needed it. Only 50% was required to be dedicated to that.
2. It irritates me that some of the money is going to criminal LEGAL citizens. Scofflaws, scoundrels, rogues, thieves, burglars, wife-abusers, sexual molesters - they're ALL getting this money. That bothers me a lot more than the occasional slip-up in accounting that gives an undocumented kid money, because there are a lot more of Americans who commit criminal acts in our country, than there are undocumented immigrants who commit criminal acts in our country.

The American citizen who molests his daughter, to me, is more of a concern than a Christian man from Venezuela who gets his son smuggled into the USA to save his life from gang wars. Your mileage may vary, but I'd MUCH prefer to have to learn spanish to understand my new next door neighbor, than have to listen to the screams of a 10-year-old being molested by her daddy.

One criminal is not better than another. No criminal should be getting those funds. Breaking our laws must have consequences.

[Kilmacowen]

Please correct me if I misunderstood, but didn't the House demand, and receive, fiscal oversight of the funds?
If so, I would expect a full accounting sometime in the future.:bigbow:

Yes , Glenn Fine was appointed, bipartisan watchdog, to oversee stimulus money. And then was fired by Trump.

[La lamy]

I think it's all about keeping the stock market from bottoming out from all the real expenditures. Same with preventing COVID tests to pretend there's less cases.

[ALadysMom]

Actually no, this money is coming from our grandchildren's futures not current taxpayers. That is why there is little concern.

Partially true. The Fed funds the national debt by selling treasury bonds but the bond’s repayment is not deferred until our posterity rises up to repay them. Repayment starts immediately and will continue until the bonds are paid in full. Many pension funds, investment funds, unions, governments, banks and big businesses as well as individuals, foreigners and their governments buy US treasury bonds because they are literally as good as it gets for reliability since they are backed by the full faith & credit of our government. Treasury bond payments are ultimately funded by all taxpayers.

If you are really concerned about US debt, our “entitlement programs“ (social security and welfare) are the biggest federal budget line item every year and they are ballooning ever year. Let’s hope our posterity doesn’t push for huge budget cuts anytime soon.

[Bogie Shooter]

Just an FYI... Darden's owns the following restaurants... from their website

"Darden's brands include LongHorn Steakhouse, Olive Garden, Cheddar's Scratch Kitchen, Eddie V's Prime Seafood, The Capital Grille, Bahama Breeze and Seasons 52".

Yep all the biggies.....poor Bob’s still denied .

[ALadysMom]

There is no taxpayer money! Most of the budget is run on borrowed money. Taxpayers hardly pay the operating cost of government today. We are operating on the backs of our grandchildren who will never pay off the debt we have left them. If you think the admitted debt is all there is, try asking about all of the unfunded pension promises at the local, school, county, state and federal level that no one ever talks about. We are broke!!!! So how do we fix it - borrow more money from China and ourselves. How about that. We have no money, but we believe we do, so we print more based on the Government's promise that someday we will be able to pay it to ourselves! If you really do believe then I have a bridge for sale. What we have done to our successors, children and grandchildren is inexplicable and disgusting but then again - we got ours let them get theirs!

Reliably predicting the future isn’t humanly possible.

Remember when we would forever be energy dependent? No hope of any meaningful energy autonomy. Remember standing in line to buy high-priced, scarce gas?

Remember when global cooling and holes in the ozone were going to kill every living thing on planet earth?

Remember when statistical modeling would reliably predict contagious spread and how many would die?

The future is (thankfully) not within our knowledge bank. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be good stewards. Those who have been given much will have more to answer for.

[Bogie Shooter]

Please correct me if I misunderstood, but didn't the House demand, and receive, fiscal oversight of the funds?
If so, I would expect a full accounting sometime in the future.:bigbow:

Yea sure, would not be the first time administration refused to provide information.

[ALadysMom]

One man's worry about looting is another man's socially important and citizen's responsibility to change society when necessary for the betterment of all.

One man’s looting...is a criminal act in defiance of laws imposed by all civil societies for the safety, security and betterment of all. It’s not open to spin nor interpretation.

What would you say to the person who property was obliterated and whose sense of security has been denied? Many of those who suffered losses or were injured or killed were supporters of the protest—but not the riots.

[Heyitsrick]

1: Harvard did not receive business stimulus funding. It received funding that was set aside specifically for universities and other higher education entities. It received less than some other schools in the greater Boston area, and dedicated 100% of it to relieving financial aid obligations for students who needed it. Only 50% was required to be dedicated to that.

Context necessary: the funding was specifically from the "Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and
Economic Security Act", aka "CARES" act. Insofar as Harvard receiving less than "some other schools in the greater Boston area", that's true. Out of 11 area colleges and universities, Harvard received less than 3 other schools. In other words, it received the fourth highest amount of funding of the 11 area schools.

https://i.imgur.com/Gudcv2l.png

2. It irritates me that some of the money is going to criminal LEGAL citizens. Scofflaws, scoundrels, rogues, thieves, burglars, wife-abusers, sexual molesters - they're ALL getting this money. That bothers me a lot more than the occasional slip-up in accounting that gives an undocumented kid money, because there are a lot more of Americans who commit criminal acts in our country, than there are undocumented immigrants who commit criminal acts in our country.

Who, specifically, are you referring to? I'm not interested in statistics or generalities/suppositions about the American population. If you're making a claim that this money is going to actual known criminals and the government intentionally isn't pursuing them, then please advise everyone.

[ALadysMom]

There are probably many reasons for current lack of transparency. Some of the funds will become loans if the borrower does not meet the criteria for forgiveness such as not maintaining an adequate number of employees. Those loans will not ultimately be funded by taxpayers but the time as not yet lapsed to know which ones will not be forgiven. How would that be reported right now? One recipient might have received a very small amount but their business needed less. Should they be publicly reported? A big business, like Darden, has exponentially more losses than one local mom-and-pop. Should all of the applications also be reported even if they did not receive all of the funds they applied for? Has the oversight personnel been given enough time to gather the data and report it?

[Heyitsrick]

One man's worry about looting is another man's socially important and citizen's responsibility to change society when necessary for the betterment of all.

Call me crazy, but I'm going to hazard an educated guess that if looting was happening to any property of yours, you'd be in the "one man's worry" category, lol. Yeah, everything is fine in the abstract...until it actually happens to you. Funny how that changes things.

[Aloha1]

Had to respond - COBOL is ancient - If kept updated, it will continue to do the job it was programmed for. One got writers cramps coding it. They also still use Big OS in DC. Most who knew anything about that are dead and gone. Strange that they have so much trouble replacing these older systems.

Retired COBOL programers can make big buck nowadays!

[Aloha1]

The "why" has already been reported:

"On Thursday, a Treasury spokesman said Mnuchin’s position reflected concern that publishing “loan-level” data with borrowers’ identities would risk disclosing proprietary information about millions of small businesses, and the salaries of sole proprietors and independent contractors. That’s because PPP loan amounts are calculated using the applicants’ payrolls."

Now, will the court(s) agree with this privacy assertion, or will they allow the release of the recipients information? Well, that's what courts are for.

There is no "need to know". Under that argument We would all have a "right" to know exactly how each of us spent our stimulus checks.

[MandoMan]

Is anyone else alarmed that the disclosure of the recipients of more than $500 billion in bailout money delivered to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is such a big secret?. Questions directed to the Treasury Department were answered by saying that information was “proprietary” and “confidential”.

Why? That amount of our taxpayer funds is not insignificant. Heck, the entire budget of the Defense Department is $617 billion! Would we accept that what was being spent by the DOD is a big secret?

I don’t think so. Why?

My girlfriend has been a close friend of Treasury Secretary Stephen Mnuchin for many years and says he’s pretty much the only trustworthy guy in the Cabinet. Maybe that helps a bit.

I know one of my sons is a cook in an Italian restaurant that is part of a casino. He got a paycheck for three months while unable to work. My other son is a composer of church music who also sells bicycles at REI. Same thing for him. I’m so grateful that their employers and the government kept them going during this terrible time. The first son is now furloughed for a couple months while his restaurant expands, but they’ve promised to rehire him. Meanwhile he’s getting the extra unemployment money, so he is okay. So just because we don’t know the details doesn’t mean people aren’t benefiting. This makes a HUGE difference for my sons.

[Villages Kahuna]

I wouldn’t complain for an instant if small businesses actually got the money. I just think that it should be disclosed that they did.

[holmesperdue]

And what happens later when we find out that the all went to special interests; nope, I paid my taxes and there is no reason to hide where it went...

[ColdNoMore]

I wouldn’t complain for an instant if small businesses actually got the money. I just think that it should be disclosed that they did.

:agree:...completely.

[ColdNoMore]

Yea sure, would not be the first time administration refused to provide information.

Your sig line...pretty much says it all.


"Only truth and transparency can guarantee freedom.”

[Kilmacowen]

Kanye West, billionaire rap singer has received 2 to 5 million dollars in ppp money. His wife, Kim Kadashian, is also a billionaire. Her sister ,Cloie, also received over a million in stimulus money. What the h''ll is going on????

[Kilmacowen]

Kanye West, billionaire rap singer has received 2 to 5 million dollars in ppp money. His wife, Kim Kadashian, is also a billionaire. Her sister ,Cloie, also received over a million in stimulus money. What the h''ll is going on????

Any responses???

[retiredguy123]

Kanye West, billionaire rap singer has received 2 to 5 million dollars in ppp money. His wife, Kim Kadashian, is also a billionaire. Her sister ,Cloie, also received over a million in stimulus money. What the h''ll is going on????
Congress passed the stimulus law. If Kanye West owned a business, he probably qualified for the money. Most people cannot comprehend how huge an amount of money $3 trillion is. That is enough to send $9,000 to every man, woman, and child in the country. But, people who didn't have a business received only a maximum of $1,200, and those who made more than $100K, got nothing. The money was targeted at people who own businesses and many of them are wealthy.

[Gulfcoast]

I'm just glad that people had jobs to go back to once states began to reopen. Those businesses that got shut down or were forced to operate under greatly reduced capacity still had expenses to pay. The ones who got the most money also probably hemorraged the most in the way of losses. We could have had ghost towns with lots of shuttered businesses and people out of work. I'm glad that's not the case.

[Kilmacowen]

I'm just glad that people had jobs to go back to once states began to reopen. Those businesses that got shut down or were forced to operate under greatly reduced capacity still had expenses to pay. The ones who got the most money also probably hemorraged the most in the way of losses. We could have had ghost towns with lots of shuttered businesses and people out of work. I'm glad that's not the case.

We will have ghost towns because the billionaires are getting the money not the small business owners. And our grandchildren will pay for it.

[Two Bills]

A billion here, a billion there and pretty soon it adds up to some real money. Our grandchildren are going to have a real challenge to pay for all this spending.

And it's their parents who are running the show, spending the money, and doing the borrowing, so the grandchildren will know who to blame! :icon_wink:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I try not to worry about things over which I have no control.

[Marvic 1]

And it's their parents who are running the show, spending the money, and doing the borrowing, so the grandchildren will know who to blame! :icon_wink:

Are these the same grandchildren that are now destroying Mom and Pop small businesses and knocking down statues? :ho:

[Gulfcoast]

Are these the same grandchildren that are now destroying Mom and Pop small businesses and knocking down statues? :ho:

I'm cool with money going to the small business owners who have been hurt during this ordeal because of government ordered shutdowns. I feel bad for the business owners stuck in states that are clearly not business friendly. They need to go to the polls and demand better representation for themselves.

What I do not want to see is money being poured into the states that allowed rioting and looting to go on and on and on for days without doing anything about it. No, you do not allow destruction like that to take place and then ask the Federal Government to give you money to "rebuild". Forget that.