Is Anyone Guarding our Villages Statues???

[DeanFL]

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With what is going on across our country - are OUR VILLAGES statues safe?

Are they 'offending' anyone?

Can they be targetted?


Should we be guarding them too?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Pretty sure Harold Schwartz was neither a slave-owner nor a white supremacist. He was also not a born/bred Southerner and therefore not qualified to be hated as a result of his ancestors being members of the Confederacy. So I'd say his statue is safe.

The guy on the horse, I don't know who he's supposed to be. So I don't know if that one's safe or not. I'm suspicious of the dog though.

[Stu from NYC]

Doesnt seem to matter who are what you are.

To these people if a statue you are fair game.

[coffeebean]

Doesnt seem to matter who are what you are.

To these people if a statue you are fair game.

I still can't figure out why a statue of Christopher Columbus was attacked and brought down. Anyone figure that one out?

[JoMar]

Pretty sure Harold Schwartz was neither a slave-owner nor a white supremacist. He was also not a born/bred Southerner and therefore not qualified to be hated as a result of his ancestors being members of the Confederacy. So I'd say his statue is safe.

The guy on the horse, I don't know who he's supposed to be. So I don't know if that one's safe or not. I'm suspicious of the dog though.

The guy on the fence in Brownwood is Gary Morse....don't want overlook him.

[tophcfa]

The morons will tear down any statue they see. Heck, they would tear down a statue of Martin Luther King before they realized what they were doing. Go figure?

[hjdttt]

Columbus is targeted because Europeans brought hardship and death to many of America’s indigenous peoples.

[coalminer]

How about the goofy white crosses in some folks yards

[JGVillages]

Why do we let them get away with this? The elected officials of the affected communities should be charged for not allowing their law enforcement to enforce the law.

[Doc Akron]

Oh please. Who cares.

[jedalton]

I still can't figure out why a statue of Christopher Columbus was attacked and brought down. Anyone figure that one out?
because they can with no consequences.

[larbud]

Oh please. Who cares. you should.

[Bogie Shooter]

Is this a sub-forum thread?

[Rwirish]

I suggest 24 hour armed guards.

[LoisR]

Morons for removing statues of those who supported slavery? Who is the moron here?

[MandoMan]

I still can't figure out why a statue of Christopher Columbus was attacked and brought down. Anyone figure that one out?

Read this article from Wikipedia, especially toward the end. It isn’t pretty.
Christopher Columbus - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus)

[susantabler@yahoo.com]

I believe Grant owned some slaves.

[Girlcopper]

I still can't figure out why a statue of Christopher Columbus was attacked and brought down. Anyone figure that one out?

Theres no reasons for the statues being torn down. Its being done by uncivilized animals who are just looking to cause chaos and destruction. Statues totally un related to this excuse for a cause have been targeted. Just think, theyve burned down and looted stores in the own neighborhood and last night tried to overtake the White House. Theyre just savages who were raised without learning respect. Blame the parents

[Andyb]

Complete Stupidity, shows incompetence in our school systems and family values.

[MandoMan]

Not sure that matters to today's radicals. What did Ulysses S. Grant have to do with slavery or Christopher Columbus or Francis Scott Key? These people are pure anarchists doing the bidding of globalists like George Soros, trying to destroy our history.

Columbus actually did enslave many thousands of indigenous people and presided over the deaths of hundreds of thousands, it is thought. Not a very nice guy.
Christopher Columbus - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus)

[am.zinger@aol.com]

That's the elephant in the room. With both parties being at odds here these days, don't be giving anyone any ideas. As they say, let sleeping dogs lie.

[MandoMan]

Pretty sure Harold Schwartz was neither a slave-owner nor a white supremacist. He was also not a born/bred Southerner and therefore not qualified to be hated as a result of his ancestors being members of the Confederacy. So I'd say his statue is safe.

The guy on the horse, I don't know who he's supposed to be. So I don't know if that one's safe or not. I'm suspicious of the dog though.

It’s well known that cattle are enslaved their entire lives and oppressed by slave-driving cattle dogs that are complicit with their owners. Those are the famous “Capitalist Running Dogs” I used to read about when I lived in China.

[Girlcopper]

I suggest 24 hour armed guards.
I suggest everyone just arm themselves and take care of their own property

[Fanfaron2020]

The reason the lunatic left are toppling statues is because nobody really cares that much about statues and therefore are not willing to confront them. So, they get the 'news' they are looking for with little resistance. I call it COWARDICE at its lowest level. Nuff said.

[bmit16]

I believe Grant owned some slaves.

Wrong! Grant's father owned slaves and he hated it. He left home when his father put him in military school. As an adult he never owned a slave, he actually went in the military then quit to go farm and almost went bankrupt trying to farm by himself. When that failed he rejoined the Union army at the request of the Illinois Governor. After the war he got caught up in a ponzi scheme with his son, and lost everything. He spent his last days writing his memoirs before dying of cancer. Never owning a single slave.

[bmit16]

Morons for removing statues of those who supported slavery? Who is the moron here?

The moron here is anyone who would condone violence, vandalism, and rioting. If you want them removed, go through the proper channels.

[karostay]

Removing cell phones and social media =s Removing stupidity
These morons can't think. Just like sheep and cows they can only follow

[joecian1]

Columbus is targeted because Europeans brought hardship and death to many of America’s indigenous peoples.
Regardless of what he did we cannot destroy our history. Are you saying that tearing down his statue is justified?

[Mardarlowe]

Just a bunch of thugs looking to tear something up. Fill the statues with history books.

[Judy n Ron]

I believe Grant owned some slaves.

Let's not pass partial truths on about another President. There is enough misinformation going around. Grant's in-laws from Missouri were slave owners, and by virtue of the fact that his wife Julia Dent was guilty by family, a slave briefly passed into Grant's possession when Mr Dent died. He was emancipated. Grant did a lot for the black population (such as could be done back in the day). As far as the original post about The Villages statues being in danger---seriously? LOL! Ron

[bilcon]

Reminiscent of my recent trip to Chile. Every beautiful statue and monument, stores, churches, cemeteries etc have been either burned out, graffitied, covered with paint or otherwise destroyed for no apparent reason except they could get away with it. After the initial riots which started out calm until the "thugs" showed up and 35 people died, the police, who were accused of human rights violations, have backed off. Downtown Santiago and Valparaiso are a disaster. Don't let this happen to our country. These riots were not about ethnic backgrounds. They happened because of low wages and retirement benefits etc. WOW!

[kanoa1kale2]

Oh please. Who cares.

You will when they come to your place.

[kanoa1kale2]

Morons for removing statues of those who supported slavery? Who is the moron here?

They are morons. Explain why Lincoln and Grant were toppled! These idiots don't give a rats rear end about BLM, only destruction because the atmosphere allows them to get away with it now. They should have had their rear end handed to them in the beginning and this would not have progressed to where it has now.

[Ramone]

Oh, some "professor came up with a story that Christopher Columbus sold little girls into slavery. Now I wonder what document they have to prove that as truth? None! History means nothing to morons.

[Kwenner]

This is not about white supremacy or slave owners , this is about destroying America and anarchy. George Floyd was their excuse to kick off their main event, they have been chipping away at AMERICA , morales and religion for years.

[Bikeracer2009]

If anyone wants to guard the statues they have my support but I will not be putting my life or freedom on the line for that cause.
Whenever I hear someone say "we" I ask myself do they say "we" and mean someone else will do it?

When I was married my wife would say we need to do this or that. It never actually meant she would be involved lol.

I believe our country is heading for a civil war of sorts. I hope I'm wrong but it sure seems inevitable.

I believe whites have turned a deaf ear to the echoes of past racism and the black community needs reforms so expensive that the only solution is violence/uprising.

The system is setup to keep the winners winning and the politicians give the illusion that change is coming. When someone fights to get their head above water they're not likely going to drown themselves. The BLM movement is getting the "winners" to act quickly as we can see but will it be enough?

[Mike193534]

Columbus actually did enslave many thousands of indigenous people and presided over the deaths of hundreds of thousands, it is thought. Not a very nice guy.
Christopher Columbus - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus)

I believe he was never in North America

[Bay Kid]

This isn't about the statues. It is a war against anything about white people.

[ColdNoMore]

Oh, some "professor came up with a story that Christopher Columbus sold little girls into slavery. Now I wonder what document they have to prove that as truth? None! History means nothing to morons.

What "document?"

How about...his OWN WORDS?! :oops:

Click Here (http://www.snopes.com/fact-check/columbus-sex-slaves/)

The quote attributed to Columbus in the meme is accurate and was taken from a letter he wrote in 1500 to Doña Juana de la Torre, a nurse in the royal court of Queen Isabella and the sister of one of Columbus’ leading crew members on his second voyage to the Americas.

[Bobby W]

I’m a southerner and when I think of riots I think of Los Angeles, Detroit, New York, and dont forget Minnesota. The bigotry isn’t only in the South.

[Topspinmo]

Pretty sure Harold Schwartz was neither a slave-owner nor a white supremacist. He was also not a born/bred Southerner and therefore not qualified to be hated as a result of his ancestors being members of the Confederacy. So I'd say his statue is safe.

The guy on the horse, I don't know who he's supposed to be. So I don't know if that one's safe or not. I'm suspicious of the dog though.


But, he is white.

[DeanFL]

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definitely a "target" - glad she's on an island and shielded.
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[Topspinmo]

Read this article from Wikipedia, especially toward the end. It isn’t pretty.
Christopher Columbus - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus)

You do know Wikipedia are write ins can be know where near actuate. Basically cut paste from opinion sources.

[Topspinmo]

Removing cell phones and social media =s Removing stupidity
These morons can't think. Just like sheep and cows they can only follow

Let’s see I can’t record conversation and it be admitted to court of law without consent, but I can take pictures without approval from the participants and it’s legal.

[mydavid]

I think you should be more worried about guarding your flower pots from the Trolls.

[kenoc7]

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With what is going on across our country - are OUR VILLAGES statues safe?

Are they 'offending' anyone?

Can they be targetted?


Should we be guarding them too?

This was clear even to Robert E. Lee, who opposed such monuments. “I think it wiser,” he wrote in 1869, declining an invitation to help decide where to erect memorials at Gettysburg, “not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/solving-the-confederate-monument-problem-is-easy-tear-them-all-down/2020/06/22/10bb8082-b4ae-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_todays_hea dlines&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_headlines

[tophcfa]

I have no doubt that there are whack jobs out there that could justify tearing down statues of the founding fathers of the Villages. Let’s start their justification list. They were white males, they were successful businessmen who made lots of money (capitalists), they supported the Republican Party, the community they created has way too many conservatives and not enough diversity, etc....

[Luisa]

Only one in four southerners owned slaves. The others resented slave owners getting rich off slave labor. Slavery ended one hundred and fifty five years ago. Nobody has been a slave or slave owner for generations. It is used as an excuse for hate and poor behavior. I read slavery was practiced among African tribes. One tribe would take members of other tribes as slaves and even capture them for the slave market. It made me wonder how slavery got started in America. Correct me if what I read is not true. If it is true, who is going to pay whom reparations?6

[Fred2016]

Yes, I think you should go out and guard them day and night.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

But, he is white.

It's all good. The sculptor fixed that by making him bronze.

[mollyb]

This is mob behavior including the vandalism.

[joseppe]

I still can't figure out why a statue of Christopher Columbus was attacked and brought down. Anyone figure that one out?

Maybe because he was Italian.

[billethkid]

So when they (the morons) topple, deface, paint, etc a statue what have they accomplished that will make what they are seeking (whatever that may be) any better.

Instead of following the laws/rules to get something done the "morons" have decided to burn, pillage, plunder and topple/remove statues on their own.

They are demonstrating they are above or beyond the law and the media and local officials validate their actions by doing nothing about it.

The fault is those in authority and the media.

[stadalberts]

YOU SAID A mouthFULL!!

[justjim]

Dean, nice satire... nope guards not needed.

[Stu from NYC]

Regardless of what he did we cannot destroy our history. Are you saying that tearing down his statue is justified?

Columbus or any other should be judged according to the times he lived in.

[TomPerrett]

Don’t you think it’s time to get over the civil war anyway.

[BlackhawksFan]

Pretty sure Harold Schwartz was neither a slave-owner nor a white supremacist. He was also not a born/bred Southerner and therefore not qualified to be hated as a result of his ancestors being members of the Confederacy. So I'd say his statue is safe.b

The guy on the horse, I don't know who he's supposed to be. So I don't know if that one's safe or not. I'm suspicious of the dog though.

That's a Florida Cracker, which were Colonial era British and American pioneer settlers who who helped settle Florida. Basically a cowboy or rancher.

[fdpaq0580]

I’m a southerner and when I think of riots I think of Los Angeles, Detroit, New York, and dont forget Minnesota. The bigotry isn’t only in the South.

You are right, bigotry isn't only in the South. Furthermore, it isn't one sided. You are not born with hate, it has to be taught. First at home, then in some houses of worship and on the playgrounds at school. From the parents to the children to their peers. It spreads like a virus, and like a virus it doesn't reason it just destroys.
Bigotry comes in many forms, racial, cultural, religious, regional, and any thing you can imagine. Remember the old song by Randy Newman, "Short people" that showed the stupidity of bigotry? The peaceful protest brings light to a subject that needs to be addressed. Riots, lawlessness, vandalism only adds to the perceived and flawed evidence that supposedly justify bigotry.
Peacefully and lawfully working together and acknowledging advancements and improvement is essential. Once a people were enslaved but they are enslaved no more. Once there was segregation, but segregation is gone. Once a people had no hope of a better life, now many of the people of all historical backgrounds live the American dream, able to attain any station in life up to and including the Presidency. No matter how hard, it is possible if you stop instilling hate and providing excuses for failure.
To me and many others, " Liberty and Justice For All" isn't just a catchy phrase, it is a Commandment!

[Andyhope]

If you re-write or erase history, you are doomed to repeat it.

[Dilligas]

I wonder how many Black lives have been and will be saved by tearing down or destroying statues?

[nn0wheremann]

I still can't figure out why a statue of Christopher Columbus was attacked and brought down. Anyone figure that one out?
Old Chris supposedly contributed to the distress of peoples indigenous to the Americas, but they got their revenge by sharing syphilis with his crew, and thus with Europe, so maybe that fight should be called a draw. This generation that expects to be forgiven its student loans and credit card debt seems unable to forgive faults of their forebearers.

[Stu from NYC]

I wonder how many Black lives have been and will be saved by tearing down or destroying statues?

Not to mention how many of us are more sympathetic to this organization while they continue to destroy statues and loot businesses.

[Scorpyo]

The morons will tear down any statue they see. Heck, they would tear down a statue of Martin Luther King before they realized what they were doing. Go figure?

Columbus is targeted because Europeans brought hardship and death to many of America’s indigenous peoples.
Yep. It is said that 90% of the native Indian population was wiped out by diseases brought from Europe.

[Scorpyo]

The moron here is anyone who would condone violence, vandalism, and rioting. If you want them removed, go through the proper channels.
Nah, that would take too much time and effort and you wouldn’t be applauded on certain TV channels.

[donfey]

The morons will tear down any statue they see. Heck, they would tear down a statue of Martin Luther King before they realized what they were doing. Go figure?

They aren't required to think, just destroy our culture. People who desire the destruction of America are paying the thugs to disrupt our way of life. Sad, indeed, that those elected to "represent" us are too terrified of the leftist press to take the action they should, I.e., enforce the law!
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[jenistaf]

Morons for removing statues of those who supported slavery? Who is the moron here?

Ulysses S Grant statue torn down in San Francisco. Wait... wasn't he the guy most responsible for freeing slaves across the Confederacy?

[Joe V.]

Yep. It is said that 90% of the native Indian population was wiped out by diseases brought from Europe.

How many tribes of fellow Indians did the Maya cause to be eradicated by their genocide?

[Scorpyo]

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With what is going on across our country - are OUR VILLAGES statues safe?

Are they 'offending' anyone?

Can they be targetted?


Should we be guarding them too?
Of course they’ll be targeted. Schwartz - Islamic extremists and skinheads are on the way. That steer or cow. Don’t you know their flatulence is destroying our atmosphere. AOC is probably on the way for that statue. And that dog - don’t get me started! The horse should be okay. After all, politicians seem to be related so the will protect it. They’re all a bunch of horses ...

[DeanFL]

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Perhaps we wouldn't have the statue and other current issues if....if....


Stevie Wonder & Paul McCartney Ebony and Ivory Lyrics

Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord, why don't we?
We all know that people are the same where ever we go
There is good and bad in everyone,
We learn to live, we learn to give
Each other what we need to survive together alive.
Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord why don't we?
Ebony, ivory living in perfect harmony
Ebony, ivory, ooh
We all know that people are the same where ever we go
There is good and bad in everyone,
We learn to live, we learn to give
Each other what we need to survive together alive.
Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord why don't we?
Ebony, ivory living in perfect harmony (repeat and fade)

[Topspinmo]

Old Chris supposedly contributed to the distress of peoples indigenous to the Americas, but they got their revenge by sharing syphilis with his crew, and thus with Europe, so maybe that fight should be called a draw. This generation that expects to be forgiven its student loans and credit card debt seems unable to forgive faults of their forebearers.

Not like the Spain did to south, Central America, and Southwestern portions of North America. All for greed of gold.

Debt forgiveness is a agenda for ____s.

[jenistaf]

Morons for removing statues of those who supported slavery? Who is the moron here?
The problem with setting slave ownership as an absolute standard is that it is almost impossible to find a sizeable society which did not place people in bondage (slaves, serfs, or their equivalents) prior to the modern anti-slavery movement in the 1800s.

Too many societies continue to do so today.

[Topspinmo]

Yep. It is said that 90% of the native Indian population was wiped out by diseases brought from Europe.
I think the Spain wiped out the most

[Marvic 1]

This isn't about the statues. It is a war against anything about white people.

That’s odd, if you look closely, you'll notice that its MOSTLY the WHITES that are causing these protest havoc.
These are the children who have been spoiled by high cost radical college professors who are being supported by Mon, Dad, Grandma and Grandpa.....
Time to wipe-out-the-belt and bring these spoiled brats back into the house....
:popcorn:

[Stu from NYC]

I think the Spain wiped out the most

Certainly in the conversation along with Incas and Aztecs.

[jenistaf]

I believe Grant owned some slaves.

Grant inherited one slave from his father, a slave he subsequently freed prior to his role in freeing hundreds of thousands more from slavery

[carolandjohn]

Some schools' history curriculum was severely lacking.

[nututv]

Some schools' history curriculum was severely lacking.

Not when I was attending. Columbus discovered America in 1492. After the Indians, Vikings and most likely a few others. lol

[carolandjohn]

There certainly are many, many comments about "those people", "savages", "morons", "them:, "they", "thugs" and other names which a lot of writers are hiding behind. Surely you are brave enough to say what you mean.

[ColdNoMore]

There certainly are many, many comments about "those people", "savages", "morons", "them:, "they", "thugs" and other names which a lot of writers are hiding behind. Surely you are brave enough to say what you mean.


:bigbow:

[Scorpyo]

I think the Spain wiped out the most
Probably because they were first to the party. From all accounts, the French and the British were no bargain either. Really very little has changed. If you look around the world you can witness hardship, strife and hatred. Many countries try to sugarcoat and hide it but the reality is they'd sacrifice just about any other country for their own gain. Wuhan virus comes to mind. They went to extreme measures to protect their own without notifying the rest of the world. A simple telephone call would have had a tremendous impact and if I'm not mistaken they do make cellphones. Let's get back to the statues for a moment. Do you think any statues in China are at risk? I would venture to guess not so much. Why? Because they've already destroyed everything related to their predecessors. Now they have their own version of communist Utopia. Sounds a lot like what's happening today in America. Wipe out our history and they can rebuild it in their own image. The scary thing is the image their trying to create.

[ditka41]

I am highly offended by our cowboy statue. It is plainly sexist, and who knows what is happening to that poor little calf? I could not sleep last night just thinking about the unfairness of it. We should at least have one erected to honor Calamity Jane!

[Taltarzac725]

Did an Irish Monk 'Discover' America? - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/news/did-an-irish-monk-discover-america)

Heard about this man while playing FunTrivia yesterday.

As to statues being pulled down it seems some people have stopped even thinking before acting and become a mob.

Some symbols should stay, some should go but after careful discussion and planning.

[ColdNoMore]

Some schools' history curriculum was severely lacking.

Not when I was attending. Columbus discovered America in 1492. After the Indians, Vikings and most likely a few others. lol

You just made carolandjohn's point...perfectly. :1rotfl:

Forget that there were already millions inhabiting "The America's"...Columbus never set foot anywhere close to the USA. :oops:

Columbus (sail here) (http://www.livescience.com/16468-christopher-columbus-myths-flat-earth-discovered-americas.html)

Yes, let's ignore the fact that millions of humans already inhabited this land later to be called the Americas, having discovered it millennia before. And let's ignore that whole Leif Ericson voyage to Greenland and modern-day Canada around 1000 C.M.E. If Columbus discovered America, he himself didn't know.

What Columbus "discovered" was the Bahamas archipelago and then the island later named Hispaniola, now split into Haiti and the Dominican Republic. On his subsequent voyages he went farther south, to Central and South America.

He never got close to what is now called the United States.

So, YOUR education (as was mine and tens of millions of others)...was false and woefully incomplete. :ho:



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[Luisa]

It is thought?

[Bogie Shooter]

It is thought?

Or the other one you hear a lot on TV......A lot of people are saying.

[Stu from NYC]

Probably because they were first to the party. From all accounts, the French and the British were no bargain either. Really very little has changed. If you look around the world you can witness hardship, strife and hatred. Many countries try to sugarcoat and hide it but the reality is they'd sacrifice just about any other country for their own gain. Wuhan virus comes to mind. They went to extreme measures to protect their own without notifying the rest of the world. A simple telephone call would have had a tremendous impact and if I'm not mistaken they do make cellphones. Let's get back to the statues for a moment. Do you think any statues in China are at risk? I would venture to guess not so much. Why? Because they've already destroyed everything related to their predecessors. Now they have their own version of communist Utopia. Sounds a lot like what's happening today in America. Wipe out our history and they can rebuild it in their own image. The scary thing is the image their trying to create.

Actually you are very wrong about China and their history.

Was fortunate to spend some time touring there last year and saw a lot of history.

From the Forbidden city to Terracotta warriors they do know and study their history.

They are still a communist dictatorship and keep a lot of control of their country.

[Marilyn RIccio]

I suggest 24 hour guards instead of paid employees of community watch driving through in white trucks that cost us hourly wages, cost of trucks, gas and maintenance. They drive through the streets while anyone can enter out gates without guards present.

[Marvic 1]

There certainly are many, many comments about "those people", "savages", "morons", "them:, "they", "thugs" and other names which a lot of writers are hiding behind. Surely you are brave enough to say what you mean.
[QUOTE=ColdNoMore;1790234]:bigbow:

I thought I did on post # 76.....:ho:

[Bogie Shooter]

I suggest 24 hour guards instead of paid employees of community watch driving through in white trucks that cost us hourly wages, cost of trucks, gas and maintenance. They drive through the streets while anyone can enter out gates without guards present.

There are probably 10+ threads to discuss this topic.
BTW who would pay for the guards?

[Scorpyo]

Actually you are very wrong about China and their history.

Was fortunate to spend some time touring there last year and saw a lot of history.

From the Forbidden city to Terracotta warriors they do know and study their history.

They are still a communist dictatorship and keep a lot of control of their country.
I won’t say you’re wrong as you said I was. Yes China has rebuilt many tourist sites as you as an admitted tourist visited. Here’s a link you might enjoy reading. There’s others as well.
China's Destruction of Cultural Sites During the Cultural Revolution - Vision Times (https://www.visiontimes.com/2018/08/26/chinas-destruction-of-cultural-sites-during-the-cultural-revolution.html)

[Cranford61]

The reason the lunatic left are toppling statues is because nobody really cares that much about statues and therefore are not willing to confront them. So, they get the 'news' they are looking for with little resistance. I call it COWARDICE at its lowest level. Nuff said.
Statue of Liberty next.

[coffeebean]

Columbus actually did enslave many thousands of indigenous people and presided over the deaths of hundreds of thousands, it is thought. Not a very nice guy.
Christopher Columbus - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus)

WOW. Never was taught about that in history when I was a kid. I was very much unaware of that part of CC history.

[coffeebean]

You are right, bigotry isn't only in the South. Furthermore, it isn't one sided. You are not born with hate, it has to be taught. First at home, then in some houses of worship and on the playgrounds at school. From the parents to the children to their peers. It spreads like a virus, and like a virus it doesn't reason it just destroys.
Bigotry comes in many forms, racial, cultural, religious, regional, and any thing you can imagine. Remember the old song by Randy Newman, "Short people" that showed the stupidity of bigotry? The peaceful protest brings light to a subject that needs to be addressed. Riots, lawlessness, vandalism only adds to the perceived and flawed evidence that supposedly justify bigotry.
Peacefully and lawfully working together and acknowledging advancements and improvement is essential. Once a people were enslaved but they are enslaved no more. Once there was segregation, but segregation is gone. Once a people had no hope of a better life, now many of the people of all historical backgrounds live the American dream, able to attain any station in life up to and including the Presidency. No matter how hard, it is possible if you stop instilling hate and providing excuses for failure.
To me and many others, " Liberty and Justice For All" isn't just a catchy phrase, it is a Commandment!

Sounds like the song from "South Pacific" by Rodgers and Hammerstein.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Not when I was attending. Columbus discovered America in 1492. After the Indians, Vikings and most likely a few others. lol

Columbus didn't discover what North Americans mean when they claim he discovered America at all. Not in 1492 or at any other time, not before or after anyone else.

Columbus's first voyage brought him to the Bahamas, Hispanola, and Cuba.

His second voyage was Cuba and Hispanola.

His third was to the southeastern edge of Hispanola and the northeastern edge of South America, and Trinidad.

On his fourth and final voyage, Columbus came as close as he ever would to North America, skirting around Puerto Rico to Jamaica and to the coast of Central America, visiting Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica before finally turning back to Spain.

He never docked, dropped anchor, or set foot on the North American continent.

[davem4616]

Statue of Liberty next.


doubt it....she's protected with a moat called the Hudson River...nobody is bringing her down

only way a mob could get to the island would be to hijack a sight seeing boat...not gonna happen...way too much security to get on those with the tools to bring the lady down

any armada of small boats going out to the statue would quickly come to the attention of the Coast Guard and NYC Police boats....and nobody should ever make the mistake and try to mess with the tug boats

now, the zealot loner with the can of spray paint...different story altogether :ohdear:

[jimjamuser]

There certainly are many, many comments about "those people", "savages", "morons", "them:, "they", "thugs" and other names which a lot of writers are hiding behind. Surely you are brave enough to say what you mean.
Well said.

[jimjamuser]

I am highly offended by our cowboy statue. It is plainly sexist, and who knows what is happening to that poor little calf? I could not sleep last night just thinking about the unfairness of it. We should at least have one erected to honor Calamity Jane!
I suggest that a black cowgirl would do the trick.

[Marvic 1]

For those that don't know it: The Statue of Liberty is no little Lady for those spoil punks to take her down....

[jimjamuser]

Say what?! :22yikes:

Are you actually saying, that it was the indigenous people that gave Columbus' crew, and then European's, syphilis and other deadly diseases, instead of the truth...which is just the opposite? :oops:

I think we have a new GOAT...already. :D

GOAT (click here) (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/1790106-post59.html)



Click Here Too (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/1789975-post32.html)

While I was pretty confident of my prescience, even I couldn't imagine...it would be proved so soon. :1rotfl:
I am pretty sure that European settlers brought smallpox and other diseases to the colonies, which, I believe, killed off enormous numbers of eastern Native Americans. Our history undercounts the depopulation. Much later in the west, the US Army gave infected blankets (smallpox?) out to the western tribes on purpose, like those chemical weapons banned by the Geneva Convention. But, of course I am no way suggesting that Native Americans deserve their Reservation land or any future considerations or reparations. That would require a less flat Federal tax and national empathy. Will not happen.

[LynnWM158]

Pretty sure Harold Schwartz was neither a slave-owner nor a white supremacist. He was also not a born/bred Southerner and therefore not qualified to be hated as a result of his ancestors being members of the Confederacy. So I'd say his statue is safe.

The guy on the horse, I don't know who he's supposed to be. So I don't know if that one's safe or not. I'm suspicious of the dog though.
Not everyone born and bred in the south has ancestors who were members of the confederacy.....none of my ancestors were slave owners or members of the confederacy. Sounds like you might have a bit of prejudice

[jimjamuser]

You are right, bigotry isn't only in the South. Furthermore, it isn't one sided. You are not born with hate, it has to be taught. First at home, then in some houses of worship and on the playgrounds at school. From the parents to the children to their peers. It spreads like a virus, and like a virus it doesn't reason it just destroys.
Bigotry comes in many forms, racial, cultural, religious, regional, and any thing you can imagine. Remember the old song by Randy Newman, "Short people" that showed the stupidity of bigotry? The peaceful protest brings light to a subject that needs to be addressed. Riots, lawlessness, vandalism only adds to the perceived and flawed evidence that supposedly justify bigotry.
Peacefully and lawfully working together and acknowledging advancements and improvement is essential. Once a people were enslaved but they are enslaved no more. Once there was segregation, but segregation is gone. Once a people had no hope of a better life, now many of the people of all historical backgrounds live the American dream, able to attain any station in life up to and including the Presidency. No matter how hard, it is possible if you stop instilling hate and providing excuses for failure.
To me and many others, " Liberty and Justice For All" isn't just a catchy phrase, it is a Commandment!
Good post, except .....Segregation is alive, well, and still flourishing in the tribal, ghetto, and difficult to escape areas in MOST US cities, big and small. Don't believe small? Go live in Arcadia, Fl. for 1 month and do some research.

[jimjamuser]

Actually you are very wrong about China and their history.

Was fortunate to spend some time touring there last year and saw a lot of history.

From the Forbidden city to Terracotta warriors they do know and study their history.

They are still a communist dictatorship and keep a lot of control of their country.
Tourist do not see the dark underbelly of anywhere (even TV). You have to live somewhere to know the spectrum of issues.

[manaboutown]

I do hope The Villages protects itself from the Burning Looting Mob.

[DeanFL]

I do hope The Villages protects itself from the Burning Looting Mob.


I say - if there is a threat, move our statues to Shooter's World. Use the bad folks attempting destruction as target practice. Of course, just glaze shots to the leg only as a warning.

[davem4616]

doubtful that we'll see any angry mobs going after the statues in TV ...but you might get the odd never-do-well jerk with a spray can and nothing better to do than sneak around late at night to do some painting....

[Stu from NYC]

I suggest that a black cowgirl would do the trick.

Does she have to be on a black horse?

What about a transgender black cowgirl?

[Scorpyo]

Does she have to be on a black horse?

What about a transgender black cowgirl?
Actually should be a non-binary or genderless cow-something or other riding a zebra.

[EdFNJ]

Rainy days ...... rainy days ..... always brings out the best of TOTV.

Theres no reasons for the statues being torn down. Its being done by uncivilized animals who are just looking to cause chaos and destruction. Statues totally un related to this excuse for a cause have been targeted. Just think, theyve burned down and looted stores in the own neighborhood and last night tried to overtake the White House. Theyre just savages who were raised without learning respect. Blame the parents

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Not everyone born and bred in the south has ancestors who were members of the confederacy.....none of my ancestors were slave owners or members of the confederacy. Sounds like you might have a bit of prejudice

You're missing the point. One of the criteria of being a member of the confederacy is - you have to have been a resident of one of the confederate states, or actively serving the confederacy at the time the confederacy existed. Does that mean everyone living there was a confederate? Nope. But it means if you were NOT living in the confederacy, and your ancestors were not actively serving the confederacy, then you and your family cannot possibly have been a confederate.

Schwartz's family was not from the south, and his family weren't even in the USA at the time of the Confederacy his father's side of the family was still in Hungary - and therefore weren't capable of being members of the confederacy.

Not prejudice. Mathematical deduction: "If you want B to be true, then A must also be true. If A is not true, then B cannot be true."

[ColdNoMore]

I am pretty sure that European settlers brought smallpox and other diseases to the colonies, which, I believe, killed off enormous numbers of eastern Native Americans. Our history undercounts the depopulation. Much later in the west, the US Army gave infected blankets (smallpox?) out to the western tribes on purpose, like those chemical weapons banned by the Geneva Convention. But, of course I am no way suggesting that Native Americans deserve their Reservation land or any future considerations or reparations. That would require a less flat Federal tax and national empathy. Will not happen.

Not for a while...that's for sure.

But given all of the studies of the younger generations being less racist/bigoted/xenophobic/misogynistic/Etc., I still hold hope (even if it's after I'm gone)...that things will get better.

That's of course, after all of those who admire, follow and sympathize with lowlife scumbags like Richard Spencer....become a negligible minority. :thumbup:

[blaf@laffertyandson.com]

This is not about white supremacy or slave owners , this is about destroying America and anarchy. George Floyd was their excuse to kick off their main event, they have been chipping away at AMERICA , morales and religion for years.

I think we should tell our police officers to not shoot anyone for 2 weeks . Ask them to spend more time at the doughnut shop .

[Stu from NYC]

Actually should be a non-binary or genderless cow-something or other riding a zebra.

Hmm is that a zebra with black stripes or white ones? Never could figure that one out.

[Byte1]

Hmm, a long horn steer? Perhaps it will have to go because a Black Angus might feel slighted.

[fdpaq0580]

Good post, except .....Segregation is alive, well, and still flourishing in the tribal, ghetto, and difficult to escape areas in MOST US cities, big and small. Don't believe small? Go live in Arcadia, Fl. for 1 month and do some research.

Thank you for making the point about segregation. You are correct. My point is that it is no longer the law of the land. The segregation that exists is more related to level of wealth or lack of it, education or lack of it, people of similar cultures living in areas where they feel welcome.
When my family, German and French, emigrated to this country, they lived in "little Germany" or the French area of town. Poor and lacking the ability to speak good English, that is where they settled. Second generation was told to speak without the accent and to get all the education they could so they could get out of the ghetto and have a better life. "Difficult to escape areas", difficult, yes, but not impossible, as some would have you believe. I have lived in good and bad places, I have felt suspicion and discrimination, so I feel, right or wrong, that I have at least a slight understanding of someone experiencing those things might feel.
The train to mutual respect, understanding and truly coming together as a nation united is not a "bullet train". It moves slower than many would like and faster than some can comprehend, but it is moving in the right direction and will continue to do so if the vandals will stop trying to tear up the tracks.
Stay safe. Stay well. Peace!

[fdpaq0580]

Hmm is that a zebra with black stripes or white ones? Never could figure that one out.

Watch some nature shows. They will tell you.

Sorry, that is about as snarky as I can get.
Stay safe. Stay well. Peace!

[jimjamuser]

Does she have to be on a black horse?

What about a transgender black cowgirl?
My image of the graph of attractiveness just went south. Thanks, I guess?

[jimjamuser]

Thank you for making the point about segregation. You are correct. My point is that it is no longer the law of the land. The segregation that exists is more related to level of wealth or lack of it, education or lack of it, people of similar cultures living in areas where they feel welcome.
When my family, German and French, emigrated to this country, they lived in "little Germany" or the French area of town. Poor and lacking the ability to speak good English, that is where they settled. Second generation was told to speak without the accent and to get all the education they could so they could get out of the ghetto and have a better life. "Difficult to escape areas", difficult, yes, but not impossible, as some would have you believe. I have lived in good and bad places, I have felt suspicion and discrimination, so I feel, right or wrong, that I have at least a slight understanding of someone experiencing those things might feel.
The train to mutual respect, understanding and truly coming together as a nation united is not a "bullet train". It moves slower than many would like and faster than some can comprehend, but it is moving in the right direction and will continue to do so if the vandals will stop trying to tear up the tracks.
Stay safe. Stay well. Peace!
I like the zebra image. Black and white zebras matter!
To Mr 0580.....good post. Good historic play-by-play about the ethnic blending. Yes, nothing to be gained by vandalizing. It sets all good causes back.

[Scorpyo]

Hmm is that a zebra with black stripes or white ones? Never could figure that one out.
Silly question. This is 2020 not 1818. Majority of black of course.

[Velvet]

You're missing the point. One of the criteria of being a member of the confederacy is - you have to have been a resident of one of the confederate states, or actively serving the confederacy at the time the confederacy existed. Does that mean everyone living there was a confederate? Nope. But it means if you were NOT living in the confederacy, and your ancestors were not actively serving the confederacy, then you and your family cannot possibly have been a confederate.

Schwartz's family was not from the south, and his family weren't even in the USA at the time of the Confederacy his father's side of the family was still in Hungary - and therefore weren't capable of being members of the confederacy.

Not prejudice. Mathematical deduction: "If you want B to be true, then A must also be true. If A is not true, then B cannot be true."

Thank you for sharing a bit more history of our Villages founder. But please don’t be disappointed if facts are bypassed for convenient fantasy though.

[Stu from NYC]

I like the zebra image. Black and white zebras matter!
To Mr 0580.....good post. Good historic play-by-play about the ethnic blending. Yes, nothing to be gained by vandalizing. It sets all good causes back.

Well the zebra is about as integrated as it gets.

Wonder if they still make integrated ice cream sodas in NYC? Chocolate syrup with vanilla ice cream and whipped cream.

[GoodLife]

.
.
.
With what is going on across our country - are OUR VILLAGES statues safe?

Are they 'offending' anyone?

Can they be targetted?


Should we be guarding them too?

I think I saw Gracie with an AK 47 guarding Harold's statue the other day. :icon_wink:

[NFRicaS]

Doesnt seem to matter who are what you are.

To these people if a statue you are fair game.
ALL Racist statues should go...not ALL statues are racist....

[GoodLife]

ALL Racist statues should go...not ALL statues are racist....

When will they rename New York and Yale?

It will take a lot of dynamite to blow up Mt Rushmore.

[anothersteve]

When will they rename New York and Yale?

It will take a lot of dynamite to blow up Mt Rushmore.

I'm trying to find it but "if" I remember some history from way back, Samuel Ellis, who owned Ellis Island and was named for, was a slave owner. The name Effy comes to mind. Might be a busy night.
Steve

[anothersteve]

I'm trying to find it but "if" I remember some history from way back, Samuel Ellis, who owned Ellis Island and was named for, was a slave owner. The name Effy comes to mind. Might be a busy night.
Steve

Found it....interesting stuff....history I mean.


Reports of Cases Adjudged in the Supreme Court of Judicature of the State of ... - New York (State). Supreme Court, William Johnson - Google Books (https://books.google.com/books?id=qHU4AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=Effy+Sable&source=bl&ots=S24sZ7q98K&sig=ACfU3U2EYOe9MZYAu3Ymxuj4WfG76LejQg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_y4P_n5nqAhXkYt8KHRKJDBUQ6AEwAHoECAoQA Q#v=onepage&q=Effy%20Sable&f=false)

Steve

[GoodLife]

I'm trying to find it but "if" I remember some history from way back, Samuel Ellis, who owned Ellis Island and was named for, was a slave owner. The name Effy comes to mind. Might be a busy night.
Steve

Mere slave owners are amateurs compared to Duke of York and Yale. They were both slave traders. York's company brought more slaves to the new world than any other person.

[Stu from NYC]

ALL Racist statues should go...not ALL statues are racist....

And who gets to decide if statues should go? A mob?

Last I heard we are a nation of laws.

[tophcfa]

When will they rename New York and Yale?

It will take a lot of dynamite to blow up Mt Rushmore.

We can rename their baseball team the New Indigenous Peoples Yankees.

[mtdjed]

What "document?"

How about...his OWN WORDS?! :oops:

Click Here (http://www.snopes.com/fact-check/columbus-sex-slaves/)

Rape, slavery and plunder has been in the history of the world. Every race and nationality has engaged in this practice. Greeks, Egyptians, Asians, Africans, Asians, Europeans, American Indians, Pacific Islanders, Incans, Aztecs, etc. That was the way of the world and probably still is in many ways.

Yet, there were still several notable persons that advanced the world in significant ways. They are the ones remembered for both good and bad. Some of these persons were not good people and I would suggest Hitler as an example. There may be a statue of him somewhere. But the fact that he was not good does not justify destruction. Better to leave it as an example of changing values. Would be a better example to future populations to be able to see the image and story of what was once admired as a warning . Destroying statues is simply vandalism at the very least.

Saw some reference that because someone born in the north having a statue is immune unless he owned slaves. Well that doesn't stop anything. Destroying public property or private property should not be condoned by anyone.

Think about someone who was molested by someone else who was murdered by a policeman. Does the molested person have a right to destroy the murdered man's tombstone?

[jenistaf]

Actually you are very wrong about China and their history.

Was fortunate to spend some time touring there last year and saw a lot of history.

From the Forbidden city to Terracotta warriors they do know and study their history.

They are still a communist dictatorship and keep a lot of control of their country.
So... When you were there, how many monuments did you see celebrating Mao's Great Leap Forward (20 million deaths) and Mao's Cultural Revolution (hundreds of thousands more)?

And when you visited TianAnMen square there in central Beijing I'm sure you couldn't have missed the memorial to the 1989 massacre of students by Peoples Liberation Army tanks...

Maybe we should say the Chinese know and study the version of history that the Communist Party finds it convenient to teach them. Other ideas not welcome.