Any former lawyers out there - particularly familiar with Federal EEO matters?

[transplanted]

My husband is still employed as a federal civil servant. Recently, EEOC came out with a resolution regarding: "In Mourning for the Deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery." no problem here

One of the lines says "WHEREAS Black lives matter:" no problem here

In an email promulgating the resolution as an attachment, the following email is sent out to all staff, civilian and military.

"Subject: EEOC Resolution

Team
The events of recent days reinforce the imperative that we must treat each other with respect, fairly and without biases. Without that, we tear the very fabric that ties us together and the richness gained from the diversity of all people, leveraging the value of different thought, background, culture, lifestyles, and more. For your awareness, I have attached a copy of the resolution from the EEOC issued this this week.

We are stronger together and the CIO team benefits greatly from each team mate.

Black Lives Matter!

V/r
XXXXXX XXXXXXX
Assistant Commander XXXX"

I was fine with the content of the email until the last line before the signature. Is this appropriate to add into an email like a slogan promoting the value of the lives of only part of the staff? It was in the resolution that was sent out - and that's fine, it's EEOC's job to make these resolutions. But is is appropriate for a supervisor to put it into his email in this format?

Thank you for your insight.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

And you want a lawyer to do what???????

[retiredguy123]

I would point out that the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is a Federal organization, but they don't just enforce employment discrimination laws for Federal employees. Anyone in the Federal Government, a state or local government, or even a private sector employee can file an employment discrimination complaint with the EEOC. It is a very powerful organization that will often use taxpayer money to sue private companies in court on behalf of employees who they determine have been discriminated against.

[transplanted]

Tell me whether or not that is appropriate in the federal workplace.

[transplanted]

And you want a lawyer to do what???????

Tell me whether or not that the ending of the email is appropriate in the federal workplace. I understand the resolution and am fine with it - I want to know if a supervisor, in the federal civil service, can promote the importance of one race over all others in an email to a staff of all races (not the resolution, but the bottom line of the email that comes over HIS signature).

[retiredguy123]

Tell me whether or not that is appropriate in the federal workplace.
In my opinion, it's not appropriate, but a lot of things they do are also not appropriate. When I was a Federal employee, the EEO system had way too much control over employment decisions. If you were a supervisor and needed to fill a job opening, the EEO Officer actually had more decision making power about who you hired than you did. Finding the best person for the job was secondary. And, the supervisors in my office always gave every employee the highest performance rating available, because, if they didn't, they would be tied up for months defending an EEO complaint.

[Taltarzac725]

There used to be a retired NYC labor lawyer on here but not sure if he is even still alive.

I have a law degree from the U of MN but am a law librarian by inclination.

From what facts you put up though, I doubt if this would be anything actionable.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

And what would you want the lawyer to do?

[transplanted]

In my opinion, it's not appropriate, but a lot of things they do are also not appropriate. When I was a Federal employee, the EEO system had way too much control over employment decisions. If you were a supervisor and needed to fill a job opening, the EEO Officer actually had more decision making power about who you hired than you did. Finding the best person for the job was secondary. And, the supervisors in my office always gave every employee the highest performance rating available, because, if they didn't, they would be tied up for months defending an EEO complaint.

I don't have an issue with the EEOC putting out their resolution. I just don't think it's appropriate for the Assistant Commander of a construction unit to put "Black Lives Matter!" as an independent statement in his email to the staff, anymore than if I put "Blue Lives Matter!" as a closing on my own email to my staff (I'm now retired, but if I were still on active duty). That's where my question lies. I'm debating whether or not to report it, and that's why I'm asking for insight... to make sure I'm not over reacting. I'm very on edge lately and have quit watching the news as it just makes me more and more angry every day and it's just not good for my psyche. Thanks for your input.

[retiredguy123]

I don't have an issue with the EEOC putting out their resolution. I just don't think it's appropriate for the Assistant Commander of a construction unit to put "Black Lives Matter!" as an independent statement in his email to the staff, anymore than if I put "Blue Lives Matter!" as a closing on my own email to my staff (I'm now retired, but if I were still on active duty). That's where my question lies. I'm debating whether or not to report it, and that's why I'm asking for insight... to make sure I'm not over reacting. I'm very on edge lately and have quit watching the news as it just makes me more and more angry every day and it's just not good for my psyche. Thanks for your input.
I don't think you are over reacting. But, in my opinion, reporting it will bring you or your husband nothing but trouble.

[Stu from NYC]

I don't think you are over reacting. But, in my opinion, reporting it will bring you or your husband nothing but trouble.

He is retired so what can this person do to him.

If it will make you feel better go ahead and report him. This has no place in our govt.

[retiredguy123]

He is retired so what can this person do to him.

If it will make you feel better go ahead and report him. This has no place in our govt.
The OP's husband is not retired.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Do you feel that black lives don't matter?
Do you feel that some other lives matter more than black lives?
Do you feel that "black lives matter" has more significance than the "WHEREAS black lives matter" line that you had no problem with, as per your post?

If the answer is yes to any of the above, then sure. Go ahead and file a complaint. Invite the media to the formal presentation of the complaint. Make sure to announce it in advance on social media the date and time that you plan on filing that complaint.

If the answer is no to any of the above, then you have no complaint.

[ColdNoMore]

SNIP.>... promoting the value of the lives of only part of the staff? <SNIP
SNIP>...can promote the importance of one race over all others<...SNIP

Not picking on you specifically, but it is that basic misunderstanding (by so many folks) of what "Black Lives Matter" actually means (which does NOT include those criminals who are doing the looting/arson/violence)...that is the problem.

I will also add, that I believe it is wholly inappropriate to put that... on a government memo at that level.

Look at these attachments...for my point. :ho:

[Fredman]

The EEOC has been and still is a joke and yes the ending of the email is inappropriate

[J1ceasar]

At least you can complain via letter and respond " all lives matter"

[J1ceasar]

Should they sue themselves???

[sharonl7340]

It doesn't matter whether it is appropriate or not. They will do what they want to do until someone brings a compliant. I am a federal civil servant as well and my experience is that leadership will do what they want to do. With that said, It is obvious that it was not vetted with their OGC and passed by them (the resolution probably was but not the email). The second thing is that it is already out there and has been seen. What do you do at this point?

[Girlcopper]

Tell me whether or not that the ending of the email is appropriate in the federal workplace. I understand the resolution and am fine with it - I want to know if a supervisor, in the federal civil service, can promote the importance of one race over all others in an email to a staff of all races (not the resolution, but the bottom line of the email that comes over HIS signature).
NO. Its not right. Black lives matter no more than all lives. Everyone needs to stop making like only one race has ever been discriminated against. Slavery was a abolished over 100 yrs ago. I never owned a slave and Im not apologizing for my ancestors. And no one alive today was ever a slave. My brother at times was nasty to me when we were kids. Do I destroy his house, beat him etc for what occurred 50 years ago? NO. Stop this garbage. Get a life. Raise your family and live like civilized people

[allsport]

I spent 40 yrs in federal service, most in middle to upper management hiring probably thousands of employees and never had EEOC involved with hiring. I did hundreds of evaluations and never had EEOC interference with any of them. If you do your job correctly and have data to back your evaluations then you will have no problems. I did see supervisors who did not have data to support what they said and use personal bias to evaluate get into trouble with EEO complaints and have to reverse what they did. That is not the fault of EEOC, it is the fault of bad supervision. If you are fair and have data, it is not a problem. When you try to use age, sex or race to evaluate, you lose. That is why we have EEOC. I had some cases filed against me when I fired people but NEVER lost one case because I always had the data and the attorneys representing the agency loved to get my cases because they were so well documented.

[gemini5001]

I agrre with you.
All of it is fine except for that last line before the signature. Uncalled for.
All Lives Matter !

[ColdNoMore]

NO. Its not right. Black lives matter no more than all lives. Everyone needs to stop making like only one race has ever been discriminated against. Slavery was a abolished over 100 yrs ago. I never owned a slave and Im not apologizing for my ancestors. And no one alive today was ever a slave. My brother at times was nasty to me when we were kids. Do I destroy his house, beat him etc for what occurred 50 years ago? NO. Stop this garbage. Get a life. Raise your family and live like civilized people

A total dichotomy meant to divert, regarding "slavery" being the only thing...regarding discrimination against blacks. :oops:

Watch this documentary...I DARE you. ;)

13TH (click here) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film))

[newgirl]

Yes

[NotGolfer]

I'm not a lawyer....but the BLM issue...people just need to Google BLM for their website and see what they're all about. It's not necessarily about race for them. They're using that from what I'm gathering. Of course BLM BUT that said....we're all the same, we bleed the same, we're made in God's image, ALL lives matter no matter the pigmentation of skin. So from that I'd say what was put on an e-mail is not appropriate.

[tlshoe]

Not picking on you specifically, but it is that basic misunderstanding (by so many folks) of what "Black Lives Matter" actually means (which does NOT include those criminals who are doing the looting/arson/violence)...that is the problem.

...

Look at these attachments...for my point. :ho:

I'm wondering about the use of the parable of the lost sheep as regards BLM. There are many good things that can be said about this wonderful parable, and at some levels it can be usefully applied in a good way for BLM. The problem is that the sheep in this parable represents a person who has wandered into sin, by his own free will, and now needs to repent of his sins for forgiveness and return to the fold he left.

[huange@verizon.net]

[QUOTE=ColdNoMore;1791304][SIZE="3"]Not picking on you specifically, but it is that basic misunderstanding (by so many folks) of what "Black Lives Matter" actually means (which does NOT include those criminals who are doing the looting/arson/violence)...that is the problem.

Good biblical point, but wouldn’t “BLAM (Black lives also matter)” also fit the passage, as well as being inclusive of something whole? Can’t you also apply that 1 lost sheep to blue, red, white, brown, yellow? And, how much “lost” can one get as an addict, criminal, sinner, murderer...?

[ColdNoMore]

I'm wondering about the use of the parable of the lost sheep as regards BLM. There are many good things that can be said about this wonderful parable, and at some levels it can be usefully applied in a good way for BLM. The problem is that the sheep in this parable represents a person who has wandered into sin, by his own free will, and now needs to repent of his sins for forgiveness and return to the fold he left.

I would simply point out, that racism/bigotry/prejudice/xenophobia/misogyny/Etc. are ALSO sins...purposely done with "free will."

Which, quite frankly, is why I am surprised and confused that so many Christians...don't seem to have a problem with it. :confused:


.

[Taltarzac725]

Just a moment... (https://blacklivesmatter.com/resources/)

Did find this very interesting. My now about 18 year old nephew when he was about six and visiting the Villages pointed at his skin and told me "it is only this deep" while holding up two fingers pinched together. And this was around 2008 or so.

He had already seen a lot of racism at age 6.

He liked to feed the buffalo around Sumter Landing carrots.

[perrjojo]

Black Lives Matter is a great Slogan and I agree but how many people know what the BLM platform is? I have sited two articles but there are many more. It’s good to know what you are supporting.

Here's What Black Lives Matter D.C. Is Calling For, And Where The City Stands : NPR (https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/06/09/872859084/here-s-what-black-lives-matter-d-c-is-calling-for-and-where-the-city-stands)
https://www.kusi.com/law-professor-alan-dershowitz-condemns-the-anti-israel-extremists-within-black-lives-matter/

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I think a lot of people are confusing (or possibly intentionally re-interpreting) the organization known as BLM and the phrase itself, Black Lives Matter.

BLM is an organization, an activist group, that has a specific agenda and plans and strategies. Not everyone agrees or likes that group and in fact, some black folks distance themselves from it.

Black lives matter.

Not also. When you say also (to whoever said BLAM) - you are basically stating that black lives are NOT humanity - but that they count anyway. Despite the fact that they aren't "everyone else." That is exactly and entirely contrary to the point. Black lives aren't an also. They're not an aside, they're not a "by the way" and they're not "in addition to" everyone else. Black lives are an integral part of the whole. When humanity embraces this, no one will ever need to say "black lives matter" again.

[sloanst]

I don't think it is appropriate for any US government agency to promote a Marxist organization.
BLM Co-Founder Patrisse Cullors "We are Marxists, We are Ideological" - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyhy4IvkENg)

[Ajiveson]

My suggestion is to put your energy in positive directions. Why waste your time and energy over this?

[MandoMan]

I don't have an issue with the EEOC putting out their resolution. I just don't think it's appropriate for the Assistant Commander of a construction unit to put "Black Lives Matter!" as an independent statement in his email to the staff, anymore than if I put "Blue Lives Matter!" as a closing on my own email to my staff (I'm now retired, but if I were still on active duty). That's where my question lies. I'm debating whether or not to report it, and that's why I'm asking for insight... to make sure I'm not over reacting. I'm very on edge lately and have quit watching the news as it just makes me more and more angry every day and it's just not good for my psyche. Thanks for your input.

I agree with you, but I wouldn’t be too surprised to find that the person writing the letter has already been reprimanded by his or her boss. To me it's as inappropriate as ending an EEOC litter with “Make America Great Again” or “Hail to the Chief” or whatever. It’s not the right place.

[The Mountaineer]

It has NOTHING to do with the quality of each human being.

[retiredguy123]

I agree with you, but I wouldn’t be too surprised to find that the person writing the letter has already been reprimanded by his or her boss. To me it's as inappropriate as ending an EEOC litter with “Make America Great Again” or “Hail to the Chief” or whatever. It’s not the right place.
If the person who wrote the letter is a Federal civilian employee, a reprimand wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on.

[fastboat]

My husband is still employed as a federal civil servant. Recently, EEOC came out with a resolution regarding: "In Mourning for the Deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery." no problem here

One of the lines says "WHEREAS Black lives matter:" no problem here

In an email promulgating the resolution as an attachment, the following email is sent out to all staff, civilian and military.

"Subject: EEOC Resolution

Team
The events of recent days reinforce the imperative that we must treat each other with respect, fairly and without biases. Without that, we tear the very fabric that ties us together and the richness gained from the diversity of all people, leveraging the value of different thought, background, culture, lifestyles, and more. For your awareness, I have attached a copy of the resolution from the EEOC issued this this week.

We are stronger together and the CIO team benefits greatly from each team mate.

Black Lives Matter!

V/r
XXXXXX XXXXXXX
Assistant Commander XXXX"

I was fine with the content of the email until the last line before the signature. Is this appropriate to add into an email like a slogan promoting the value of the lives of only part of the staff? It was in the resolution that was sent out - and that's fine, it's EEOC's job to make these resolutions. But is is appropriate for a supervisor to put it into his email in this format?

Thank you for your insight.
White Lives Matter, Yellow Lives Matter, Red Lives Matter, Brown Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter i.e., ALL lives matter. No one has a monopoly on their life mattering more than another's. More blacks are killed by blacks than by police but nobody cares. More whites are killed by police than blacks but nobody cares. This entire BLM movement is little more than an excuse to riot, loot, burn and steal. Recognize it for what it REALLY is.

[Toymeister]

Real Federal employee here with four decades in the system, not a poster with a political agenda.

The feds practice racism with impunity, yes as hard as it to belive it is truth. When measured against qualifications required and population in the workforce.

Whites are consistently underhired along with Asians while Blacks are over hired.

This racism is acceptable for some reason and actively encouraged. It does vary from one agency to another.

[retiredguy123]

Real Federal employee here with four decades in the system, not a poster with a political agenda.

The feds practice racism with impunity, yes as hard as it to belive it is truth. When measured against qualifications required and population in the workforce.

Whites are consistently underhired along with Asians while Blacks are over hired.

This racism is acceptable for some reason and actively encouraged. It does vary from one agency to another.
Yes. There is no "white privilege" in the Federal Government employment system for white men. White men are the most discriminated against group of people when it comes to hiring and promoting Federal employees. Although, white women are protected by the ridiculous affirmative action laws.

[thomp679]

I don't think it is appropriate for any US government agency to promote a Marxist organization.
BLM Co-Founder Patrisse Cullors "We are Marxists, We are Ideological" - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyhy4IvkENg)

But you're ok with a dictatorial organization?

[OhioBuckeye]

My husband is still employed as a federal civil servant. Recently, EEOC came out with a resolution regarding: "In Mourning for the Deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery." no problem here

One of the lines says "WHEREAS Black lives matter:" no problem here

In an email promulgating the resolution as an attachment, the following email is sent out to all staff, civilian and military.

"Subject: EEOC Resolution

Team
The events of recent days reinforce the imperative that we must treat each other with respect, fairly and without biases. Without that, we tear the very fabric that ties us together and the richness gained from the diversity of all people, leveraging the value of different thought, background, culture, lifestyles, and more. For your awareness, I have attached a copy of the resolution from the EEOC issued this this week.

We are stronger together and the CIO team benefits greatly from each team mate.

Black Lives Matter!

V/r
XXXXXX XXXXXXX
Assistant Commander XXXX"

I was fine with the content of the email until the last line before the signature. Is this appropriate to add into an email like a slogan promoting the value of the lives of only part of the staff? It was in the resolution that was sent out - and that's fine, it's EEOC's job to make these resolutions. But is is appropriate for a supervisor to put it into his email in this format?

Thank you for your insight.

It’s sad that it’s just, ONLY Black Lives Matter but it also sad that it’s just a hand full of them that’s controlling everything & certain people are bowing down to them. What a shame!

[ColdNoMore]

It’s sad that it’s just, ONLY Black Lives Matter but it also sad that it’s just a hand full of them that’s controlling everything & certain people are bowing down to them. What a shame!

This is so far from reality and so aptly demonstrates the REAL problem, I'm not even going to try and explain or correct this fake protestation...because it would be a complete waste of time. :ohdear: