Do our parades require a permit? if not, should they?

[TNGary]

Normally parades require a permit as the permit identifies the responsible organization and allows for lawful disregard of stop signs and temporary use of city streets. Local authorities are aware of the event and may want to be present.

My major concern is for the safety of those in the parade and any bystanders. Based on what I saw in the recent parade video clip, I could easily anticipate the potential for tempers to get out of control and possibly a physical confrontation.
Additionally, it appeared folks were standing in front of the golf carts. What if the driver accidentally stepped on the accelerator pedal? (and I do mean accidentally as I know it would not be done intentionally).

I fully support the concept of parades and those with different views, please do not get me wrong. I just don't want to see one of our neighbors having a life altering event.
If you agree, I suggest you contact the local authorities to show you support.

This is not intended to be a negative post, but a post of support for orderly and safe parades.

Your thoughts???

[John41]

I was thinking the same thing. During these uncivil times a parade permit should be available that requires protesters to stay 100 feet away.

[JoMar]

And if they do and then people ignore them is your suggestion arrest them and throw them in jail? Just fine them? How do you enforce? They do need permission to hold parades and events but it's not a "permit". Adding level's of bureaucracy because of the actions of a few would not get my vote.

[justjim]

The clip you saw was a golf cart parade supporting a particular political candidate. No permit required. Our Village Social club had a golf cart parade supporting first responders, again, no permit or permission from any authority required. If it’s a large parade (St. Patrick’s Day type), where streets are blocked off and there are vendors, you need permission from the recreation Department. A protester on public property or homeless asking for “help” (County right away) as far as I know does not require a permit. If these should impede first responders or block traffic I believe they are ask to move to a different place. There are constitutional rights to peaceful assembly and freedom of speech and if denied by authorities remedy would be through the Courts.

[Neils]

Last time we rioted, we needed a permit to burn down building and torch police cars.

[Gulfcoast]

I was thinking the same thing. During these uncivil times a parade permit should be available that requires protesters to stay 100 feet away.

Maybe hire some big, burly out of work bar bouncers to keep the peace? I am kidding of course....

[dewilson58]

No "City" to issue a permit.

[gadaboutgal]

Back to the original question re: permits for parades. In the past, most golf cart parades have been on public roadways so the question of permits would be whether Sumter, Marion, or Lake counties have this requirement? Does anyone know the facts on this? The Villages does not have control over the public roadways including the areas around the Town Squares.
We have to remember that we are not a restricted, private, gate enclosed community

[Two Bills]

Can't see the point of them anyway.
Parades are either preaching to the converted, or provoking the opposition.
Why the suprise when tempers fray? :shrug:

[dewilson58]

Back to the original question re: permits for parades. In the past, most golf cart parades have been on public roadways so the question of permits would be whether Sumter, Marion, or Lake counties have this requirement?


Give them a call if you care.


:shocked:

[Villagerjjm]

Normally parades require a permit as the permit identifies the responsible organization and allows for lawful disregard of stop signs and temporary use of city streets. Local authorities are aware of the event and may want to be present.

My major concern is for the safety of those in the parade and any bystanders. Based on what I saw in the recent parade video clip, I could easily anticipate the potential for tempers to get out of control and possibly a physical confrontation.
Additionally, it appeared folks were standing in front of the golf carts. What is the driver accidentally stepped on the accelerator pedal? (and I do mean accidentally as I know it would not be done intentionally).

I fully support the concept of parades and those with different views, please do not get me wrong. I just don't want to see one of our neighbors having a life altering event.
If you agree, I suggest you contact the local authorities to show you support.

This is not intended to be a negative post, but a post of support for orderly and safe parades.

Your thoughts???

If memory serves, I was informed that Rt.466, Morse Blvd., Stillwater Trail and Buena Vista Blvd. were county roads. When you left those roads and headed into Lake Sumter Landing you entered onto private property that is solely owned by the Developer of The Villages. This holds true for all of the town squares in The Villages. The Courtyard Villa complexes are also private property that is owned by the district they are located in. The Districts do not own any part of the Town Squares that fall within them. I have not heard that any of that has changed. If anyone knows otherwise, please inform.
That being said, the rights to free speech would end at the point when you entered onto the private property. The same would hold true if someone came onto your property and began an action or dialog that you disagreed with. You, being the property owner, can order the other person off your property or can have them forcibly evicted. That is your right and it over rides the right of the person on your property that you object to.
The Developer, being the sole owner of the Town Squares can make a rule where such parades are not allowed on his/her property and enforce them. The Developer can make a rule that does not allow particular signs to be displayed on your golf cart while it is on his/her property. The rule may include what you can wear as a slogan on your hat. I think that the Developer is taking a hard look at this right now. I do not think he/her are very happy about both sides that were shown in the video that went viral.
Now, there is a reasonable balance that can be achieved between all groups of people with differing perceptions of political and social orientation. There is representation within The Villages for the Republican Party, but none for the Democratic Party. Why not? When the Democrats had the same type of rally a couple of years back, there was a lot of name calling, egg throwing, swearing and gestures that were made. There was no outrage expressed over that. Why not?
There is a lot of sole searching that has to be done both by the Developer on how he/she wants to handle what happens on their property. I would hate to see a decision that decreases an individual's ability of self expression, but if that's what it will take to hold the peace, so be it!

[Michael Charles]

As mentioned LSL does not fall under the jurisdiction of the town of lady lake (for police) nor Sumter county for the sheriff's department.

[coalminer]

If the Villages dosent condemn and prohibit such inflammatory parades such as the one that was highlighted by the "white power guy" someone will eventually get hurt. I feel that the Villages and the organizers of the event should be held legally responsible.

[Michael Charles]

If the Villages dosent condemn and prohibit such inflammatory parades such as the one that was highlighted by the "white power guy" someone will eventually get hurt. I feel that the Villages and the organizers of the event should be held legally responsible.

So you're saying that TV and the clubs that organize events that are distasteful to you should be held accountable for something that you or others do?

I of course am embarrassed that a member of the community where I live in said those hateful words. In no way can you expect anyone other than the ignorant and racist person speaking those words responsible.

"Legally responsible" What laws were broken?

Unfortunately, all people involved were exercising their right to free speech.

[Tom2172]

We no longer have normal
We have hate mobs destroying
Statues, property & people
Yesterday Provo UT mob demand people leave a car so they could beat them
Then shot into the car hitting the driver in the face
The driver speed through the crowd to hospital
We no longer have law & order
We have vicious mobs with no permits for mobs

[davem4616]

Can't see the point of them anyway.
Parades are either preaching to the converted, or provoking the opposition.
Why the suprise when tempers fray? :shrug:


exactly...and the same reason I don't put a sticker on my vehicle...don't need it "keyed" by someone with a limited IQ that's for the opposition

parades that celebrate holidays are fine....a string of golf cart's assembled to promote a social issue or a candidate are just asking for "the groupies" opposing them to come out in force and friction will follow

[valuemkt]

If the Villages dosent condemn and prohibit such inflammatory parades such as the one that was highlighted by the "white power guy" someone will eventually get hurt. I feel that the Villages and the organizers of the event should be held legally responsible.

Were you there, or did you watch the entire video clip, not just the snippet on main stream news ?

Did you happen to see or hear the lovely Trump hating woman who was shouting obscenities at the passing carts using language that would make a sailor blush ??

The amount of F Trump shouts from protestors taking the Blue side of the spectrum is what sent the rally downhill... Yes, the people jumping in front of golf carts could have gotten hurt.. Maybe they should have stayed home

[kenoc7]

How about just not allowing parades like the ridiculous one that gave The Villages very bad publicity across the world. Relatives in Australia sent the clip to me.

[duffer4384]

I am so embarrassed to be a Villager right now. My wife and I decided to retire here fifteen years ago because the people here were mostly friendly and the lifestyle was appealing to us. Over the years as the yearly new wave of residents come, it seems that the old ideals are being lost. There doesn't seem to be a norm anymore. Speed limits are ignored, people seem to be in too much of a hurry to be nice anymore. There used to be rules and regulations that were geared towards maintaining a happy lifestyle. Not anymore, nothing is being enforced and based on recent national news we seem to be interested more in our political views than being retired and having fun. I don't know why anyone would want to move here right now and our property values are certainly going to suffer.

[Topspinmo]

I am so embarrassed to be a Villager right now. My wife and I decided to retire here fifteen years ago because the people here were mostly friendly and the lifestyle was appealing to us. Over the years as the yearly new wave of residents come, it seems that the old ideals are being lost. There doesn't seem to be a norm anymore. Speed limits are ignored, people seem to be in too much of a hurry to be nice anymore. There used to be rules and regulations that were geared towards maintaining a happy lifestyle. Not anymore, nothing is being enforced and based on recent national news we seem to be interested more in our political views than being retired and having fun. I don't know why anyone would want to move here right now and our property values are certainly going to suffer.

What happens when it gets overcrowded. No different than anywhere else these days.

[Topspinmo]

How about just not allowing parades like the ridiculous one that gave The Villages very bad publicity across the world. Relatives in Australia sent the clip to me.

You mean the one with the whistle blowers?

[Joe C.]

The Villages own the town squares, but they do not own the roads that go around them. Therefore, they can't control any "parades" on any of the town or county streets.

[17362]

I just wonder... the obscene lady and the power man... if they were even villagers? I wonder that a lot about the people that make headlines that aren’t meant for them. That parade, that is now all about those 2 for example. Not exactly about the parade- sometimes needy people do that for their claim to fame or to give outsiders a tarnished view (an agenda other than the true meaning of something.
Does anyone else wonder about this, in general, that is?

[charmed59]

The infamous video was not of a parade. Parades are community activities where streets are blocked off and notice is given to all so people can join together and watch. Think the St Patricks day parade down at Spanish Springs. The streets are blocked off hours in advance. There are community officers directing traffic around the closures. If you happen to be heading to Spanish Springs that day and didn’t know about the parade you would be directed around the closed streets.

What happened at Sumter was a protest. It was intended to disrupt traffic. That is part of our free speech rights. Just as the lady yelling obscenities at those in carts, and the guy in the cart yell unacceptable things back, both are covered under free speech.

What put it on the world stage was not that something illegal was done. Just something that was extremely unacceptable was done, and then was catapulted into social media. People here in the Villages, and everywhere, say just as obnoxious things every day. They aren’t usually on video, and when it comes to the Villages, they are very seldom tweeted out to the world by a world wide celebrity.

People in the Villages also do extremely kind and forward thinking things everyday. Those also are seldom captured on video. If they were, and we had a very popular influencer spreading these great acts on the social media, we would have a much better reputation.

[lwmilo]

So you're saying that TV and the clubs that organize events that are distasteful to you should be held accountable for something that you or others do?

I of course am embarrassed that a member of the community where I live in said those hateful words. In no way can you expect anyone other than the ignorant and racist person speaking those words responsible.

"Legally responsible" What laws were broken?

Unfortunately, all people involved were exercising their right to free speech.

Amazing... Black Power all ok but White power is a no no. Its ok for the Connecticut women to curse and verbaly abuse the golf cart riders... typical one sided opinion.
Namvet

[fdpaq0580]

What happens when it gets overcrowded. No different than anywhere else these days.

I agree with you. Many years ago I read an article on a study to demonstrate the effects of over crowding/over population. The study started with a pair of peaceful lab rats in a very large space with plenty of food and water. A rat paradise, if you will. The rats bred and became a few rats. When they bred, there became a lot of rats, and so on. The researchers made sure there was always food and water so as to make sure the only variable was over population. As the population soared and personal space diminished, the rats became far less peaceful, ultimately becoming violent even to the point of killing and cannibalizing their fellows, even with food and water available. I haven't been able to find this study.
So, I agree with your assessment of the effect of over crowding. Makes one wonder what the future holds if we can't come together peacefully now to deal with the problems that we'll face down the road.

[ValSetz]

Are the roads within the Squares private? Or are they maintained by the counties?

[Joe C.]

The roads in and around the squares are maintained by the county. If the roads were private, then the sheriff or police couldn't legally ticket anybody for going through stop signs or traffic signals.
That's the simple explanation.

[jimhurtt@twc.com]

But you must understand. The person yelling "White Power" was refering to Senior Citizen Power. He had white hair.

[tophcfa]

exactly...and the same reason I don't put a sticker on my vehicle...don't need it "keyed" by someone with a limited IQ that's for the opposition

Very good point. My truck was badly keyed a few years ago because I had a Scott Brown bumper sticker. He was running against Elizabeth Warren for state senator.

[Villagerjjm]

The roads in and around the squares are maintained by the county. If the roads were private, then the sheriff or police couldn't legally ticket anybody for going through stop signs or traffic signals.
That's the simple explanation.

I think the legal definitions in Florida State Law in regards to how L.L.C.'s functions do allow law enforcement to proceed on the private roads and property in the same manner that they do on City, County and State properties. The roads that run inside the Squares are not maintained by the county.
Neither is the bridge on Morse Blvd. that allows crossing from Rt. 466 to Lake Sumter Landing. That bridge is owned by the Developer and is currently involved in a dispute as to who will foot the bill for repairs. Not a county issue, it is between the Developer and the District the bridge is in.
Brownwood is within the confines of Wildwood and has a police presence that can operate all through Brownwood. If you are drunk and disorderly in Brownwood and get arrested for it, there is a trespassing charge along with any other charges that may be incurred.
In Lake Sumter Landing, it is the county sheriff that has enforcement present and the same charge of trespassing is included. Please note that the Sheriff does not have a satellite office within the confines of Lake Sumter Landing. It is elsewhere.
Spanish Springs is in Lady Lake and hence you see Lady Lake police enforcement there. Once again, a trespassing charge gets included with any other charges that may be incurred by a person.
All the departments can operate on private property, which once again I will point out that the Squares are private property including the roads that go through them.

A thought just came across my mind as I wrote this: Why do all the golf cart parades which are not a part of a scheduled event that is endorsed and planned by The Villages Entertainment / Activities Department always seem to occur at Lake Sumter Landing???

I think it will be very interesting to see what kind of response the Developer(s) will have, if there is any response at all.

[Number 10 GI]

I don't own a golf cart and even if I did I wouldn't have participated in the so-called parade even though I do support President Trump. I have better things to do. Even if you aren't a supporter of Trump why should it bother you if others want to show their support? If there was a parade to support Biden I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. The extent of outrage shown by the filthy mouthed low IQ woman clearly indicates a mental problem. She and others like her need professional psychological help. I can't imagine what would happen if she was faced with a real problem, instead of some silly parade.

[JoMar]

I think the legal definitions in Florida State Law in regards to how L.L.C.'s functions do allow law enforcement to proceed on the private roads and property in the same manner that they do on City, County and State properties. The roads that run inside the Squares are not maintained by the county.
Neither is the bridge on Morse Blvd. that allows crossing from Rt. 466 to Lake Sumter Landing. That bridge is owned by the Developer and is currently involved in a dispute as to who will foot the bill for repairs. Not a county issue, it is between the Developer and the District the bridge is in.
Brownwood is within the confines of Wildwood and has a police presence that can operate all through Brownwood. If you are drunk and disorderly in Brownwood and get arrested for it, there is a trespassing charge along with any other charges that may be incurred.
In Lake Sumter Landing, it is the county sheriff that has enforcement present and the same charge of trespassing is included. Please note that the Sheriff does not have a satellite office within the confines of Lake Sumter Landing. It is elsewhere.
Spanish Springs is in Lady Lake and hence you see Lady Lake police enforcement there. Once again, a trespassing charge gets included with any other charges that may be incurred by a person.
All the departments can operate on private property, which once again I will point out that the Squares are private property including the roads that go through them.

A thought just came across my mind as I wrote this: Why do all the golf cart parades which are not a part of a scheduled event that is endorsed and planned by The Villages Entertainment / Activities Department always seem to occur at Lake Sumter Landing???

I think it will be very interesting to see what kind of response the Developer(s) will have, if there is any response at all.

Sumter is the considered the current population center so easier. When the bridges or completed that might change to Brownwood or there might be multiple parades. :)

[nevjudbaker]

Now that makers sense. Good point. If Democrats want to be heard let them have their own parade. Another time the Villages were lucky the video didn’t get out that had that truck driver parking & coming over to make his point. He was wrong but the one foul mouthed lady just kept screaming nasty language. She made the whole group look bad. One rotten apple can spoil the whole barrel.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

It seems to me that there is a difference between an organized parade that requires streets to be closed down and a permit to ignore stop signs red lights and other traffic laws and an informal parade that requires neither of those.

I'm sure that the golf carts in the Trump parade had to obey all of the traffic laws and no streets were officially closed.

[Bellavita]

while not smart to stand in front of a golf cart the pedestrian always has the right of way

[dewilson58]

while not smart to stand in front of a golf cart the pedestrian always has the right of way


nope

[Topspinmo]

while not smart to stand in front of a golf cart the pedestrian always has the right of way

So does that thinking apply to trains also?

[John41]

Maybe hire some big, burly out of work bar bouncers to keep the peace? I am kidding of course....

Some big tattooed Harley riders from the Village Nomads would do just fine. Or tear gas, water cannons and rubber bullets from the National Guard.

[tophcfa]

while not smart to stand in front of a golf cart the pedestrian always has the right of way

Correct, pedestrians have the right of way. A pedestrian is a person walking across the road. An obnoxious foul mouthed woman standing in front of a cart to block its passage, while yelling obscenities, is NOT a pedestrian.

It would be a shame to risk damaging a perfectly good golf cart running her over.

[tvbound]

So does that thinking apply to trains also?

Definitely not.

A good friend of ours is a retired engineer, after over 40 years of running trains. He said that the last person who committed suicide by stepping in front of his train, just one of quite few in his career, was the deciding factor in him deciding to finally retire. He said it is such a helpless feeling knowing he couldn't do anything about it and that it would be at least a mile to stop the train, before he and the conductor could even get off and go back to check on the person.

[doctorknow]

PLEASE no more regulation....it is not enforceable anyway and it just leads to more paperwork, bureaucratic delays and issues of what are the conditions to grant a permit.

What type of parade requires what conditions to be approved? Golf Cart parades, Car parade, Segway parade, walking protest parade, animal (horses, dogs, etc) parade? This opens a can of worms we don't need in the villages. Once opened do the worms need a permit?

[dewilson58]

Correct, pedestrians have the right of way. .


The pedestrian does not always have the right-of-way:
The Florida statue only defines who is required to yield the right-of-way. Pedestrians at crosswalks at signalized intersections must yield if they face a red traffic signal or steady DON'T WALK signal. ... Pedestrians cannot enter the crosswalk at any time they wish.