Will All North and Central Country Club Restaurants and Pools Eventually Be Closed?

[MandoMan]

I noticed this morning that the Hacienda Hills Country Club restaurant and pool are now closed and that demolition may begin today. Links led me to the information that the Tierra del Sol restaurant and pool were due to be demolished in 2013, but I hear that it was rebuilt instead. Also Chula Vista, Silver Lake, and other clubs, I hear, were changed. (Excuse me if any of this info is wrong.) Will this continue? The reason seems to be that they aren’t getting enough business and/or that they need expensive repairs. Buildings are being town down when they are fifteen years old, and we are told that they are at the end of their life expectancy.

I understand how economics work and that there are costs that have to be covered. I’m sure the Developer’s staff has run the numbers and knows that these restaurants are (were) costing more to run than they are (were) bringing in. That doesn’t make good business sense. I suppose the availability of many restaurants on the outskirts of The Villages have hurt business at the country clubs. Many people want to spend less on meals or like eating at chain restaurants, and those restaurants also bring in more business from outside The Villages, which is crucial to making a profit.

What do you think? Will ALL of the country club restaurants and pools eventually close? Will “Country Club” just mean golf courses and various other sports? Will the southern country clubs be built without restaurants and pools? Will it no longer be possible to go from the golf or tennis court to the bar or restaurant for a drink or lunch? Will players have to get into their cars or carts and drive twenty minutes or more to some restaurant where they and their pals will hope they can sit together? That certainly changes the usual idea and ideal of a country club. Perhaps the ones with the least business will be closed until the busiest get even busier and eventually make a decent profit.

Also, what is with this idea that a building is ready to be torn down in fifteen years? My home is stick-built, like the country clubs, and it is twenty-two years old. I think it is in great condition. What makes the difference? Will my house need to be torn down soon? Were the country clubs built from the beginning with a lower quality of construction than the houses?

Would it work for the country club restaurants to be leased to popular chain restaurants, or would that bring in too many outsiders and again change the idea of the more exclusive country club?

[bilcon]

Tierra del Sol pool and restaurant were never demolished. They were changed and remodeled.

[JSR22]

There are not any Country Clubs in The Villages. There are restaurants adjacent to golf courses. Some restaurants, not all, have pool close to them. You have to pay a yearly fee to use them. Lopez Legacy restaurant was guttednand redone beautifully several years ago as well as Tierra del Sol. Glenview was turned over last year and had a thorough deep cleaning. Hacienda's restaurant was dirty and the kitchen was a disaster. Nobody was looking to invest millions into an old building that was in terrible shape.

[Polar Bear]

There are not any Country Clubs in The Villages. There are restaurants adjacent to golf courses. Some restaurants, not all, have pool close to them...
Hmmm. Semantics I guess.

[shopnstop]

Will be the end of my priority membership after 11 years! Sad, as I did enjoy the small perks associated w/prority membership!

[stan the man]

What makes anyone think TV has country clubs. Get real !!!

[burbank3160]

Does anyone know what will be put in place at Hacienda?

[GoodLife]

What makes anyone think TV has country clubs. Get real !!!

Country club
noun

A club, usually in suburban districts, with clubhouse and grounds, pro shop and restaurant, offering various activities such as golf, tennis, and swimming.

Country Clubs can be private or open to the public. Some are both and called Semi Private.

[dewilson58]

What makes anyone think TV has country clubs. Get real !!!


Because they are called County Clubs. :shrug:


Definition of country club
: a suburban club for social life and recreation especially : one having a golf course




:popcorn:

[Mleeja]

I am surprised that people are “surprised” the building is being taken down. It has been posted on this site and others that this building was in bad shape and no one was willing to take on the expense of rehab. Thankfully the AAC was one of the groups that passed on taking over this building.

We can hope something will take this buildings place. But I would not bet on a country club with a pool and restaurant. That does not seem to be the current model.

[graciegirl]

I noticed this morning that the Hacienda Hills Country Club restaurant and pool are now closed and that demolition may begin today. Links led me to the information that the Tierra del Sol restaurant and pool were due to be demolished in 2013, but I hear that it was rebuilt instead. Also Chula Vista, Silver Lake, and other clubs, I hear, were changed. (Excuse me if any of this info is wrong.) Will this continue? The reason seems to be that they aren’t getting enough business and/or that they need expensive repairs. Buildings are being town down when they are fifteen years old, and we are told that they are at the end of their life expectancy.

I understand how economics work and that there are costs that have to be covered. I’m sure the Developer’s staff has run the numbers and knows that these restaurants are (were) costing more to run than they are (were) bringing in. That doesn’t make good business sense. I suppose the availability of many restaurants on the outskirts of The Villages have hurt business at the country clubs. Many people want to spend less on meals or like eating at chain restaurants, and those restaurants also bring in more business from outside The Villages, which is crucial to making a profit.

What do you think? Will ALL of the country club restaurants and pools eventually close? Will “Country Club” just mean golf courses and various other sports? Will the southern country clubs be built without restaurants and pools? Will it no longer be possible to go from the golf or tennis court to the bar or restaurant for a drink or lunch? Will players have to get into their cars or carts and drive twenty minutes or more to some restaurant where they and their pals will hope they can sit together? That certainly changes the usual idea and ideal of a country club. Perhaps the ones with the least business will be closed until the busiest get even busier and eventually make a decent profit.

Also, what is with this idea that a building is ready to be torn down in fifteen years? My home is stick-built, like the country clubs, and it is twenty-two years old. I think it is in great condition. What makes the difference? Will my house need to be torn down soon? Were the country clubs built from the beginning with a lower quality of construction than the houses?

Would it work for the country club restaurants to be leased to popular chain restaurants, or would that bring in too many outsiders and again change the idea of the more exclusive country club?

The first populated areas in The Villages probably has the most older inhabitants. Many of us have no idea why we got older and would rather stay home and eat and many don't play golf as much and many either drink a lot more or have quit.

I think that the developers are doing what they can with their form of "urban renewal" by buying well priced modular homes in the historic areas, removing them and then building site built homes on their lot and selling them for reasonable prices.

I don't think anyone can stop the march of time and changes but I believe that The Villages is the least touched by urban dinge that comes with time. We seem to have attracted a lot of people who enjoy and take pride in their homes and yards and either personally see to it that it stays nice or hires someone to keep it nice.

The Country Clubs and restaurants, owned and rented out by the developers must depend on patrons to spend their money. Some restaurants aren't very well patronized for a lot of reasons and that is how the free market works. It is a tough business to maintain a restaurant with three months of high population and nine months of far less population. What do you do with staff in the off season?

Not an easy dilemma for all of Florida's restaurants and made worse by the justifiable fear brought by the pandemic.

I have watched as restaurants changed renters and some are not as good as they once were and many are run by just a couple of owners. I don't know, but we as a group are careful critics of food.

[NotFromAroundHere]

We can hope something will take this buildings place. But I would not bet on a country club with a pool and restaurant. That does not seem to be the current model.

From an unimpeachable source (random lady at the golf course): They're going to build a new Katie Belle's.

[Bogie Shooter]

I noticed this morning that the Hacienda Hills Country Club restaurant and pool are now closed and that demolition may begin today. Links led me to the information that the Tierra del Sol restaurant and pool were due to be demolished in 2013, but I hear that it was rebuilt instead. Also Chula Vista, Silver Lake, and other clubs, I hear, were changed. (Excuse me if any of this info is wrong.) Will this continue? The reason seems to be that they aren’t getting enough business and/or that they need expensive repairs. Buildings are being town down when they are fifteen years old, and we are told that they are at the end of their life expectancy.

I understand how economics work and that there are costs that have to be covered. I’m sure the Developer’s staff has run the numbers and knows that these restaurants are (were) costing more to run than they are (were) bringing in. That doesn’t make good business sense. I suppose the availability of many restaurants on the outskirts of The Villages have hurt business at the country clubs. Many people want to spend less on meals or like eating at chain restaurants, and those restaurants also bring in more business from outside The Villages, which is crucial to making a profit.

What do you think? Will ALL of the country club restaurants and pools eventually close? Will “Country Club” just mean golf courses and various other sports? Will the southern country clubs be built without restaurants and pools? Will it no longer be possible to go from the golf or tennis court to the bar or restaurant for a drink or lunch? Will players have to get into their cars or carts and drive twenty minutes or more to some restaurant where they and their pals will hope they can sit together? That certainly changes the usual idea and ideal of a country club. Perhaps the ones with the least business will be closed until the busiest get even busier and eventually make a decent profit.

Also, what is with this idea that a building is ready to be torn down in fifteen years? My home is stick-built, like the country clubs, and it is twenty-two years old. I think it is in great condition. What makes the difference? Will my house need to be torn down soon? Were the country clubs built from the beginning with a lower quality of construction than the houses?

Would it work for the country club restaurants to be leased to popular chain restaurants, or would that bring in too many outsiders and again change the idea of the more exclusive country club?
I think 99% of your gloom and doom will never happen........................

[kaydee]

Too bad that the developer doesn’t respect the residents enough to have common courtesy to let us know the plan. JMO

[Jayhawk]

I noticed this morning that the Hacienda Hills Country Club restaurant and pool are now closed and that demolition may begin today. Links led me to the information that the Tierra del Sol restaurant and pool were due to be demolished in 2013, but I hear that it was rebuilt instead. Also Chula Vista, Silver Lake, and other clubs, I hear, were changed. (Excuse me if any of this info is wrong.) Will this continue? The reason seems to be that they aren’t getting enough business and/or that they need expensive repairs. Buildings are being town down when they are fifteen years old, and we are told that they are at the end of their life expectancy.

I understand how economics work and that there are costs that have to be covered. I’m sure the Developer’s staff has run the numbers and knows that these restaurants are (were) costing more to run than they are (were) bringing in. That doesn’t make good business sense. I suppose the availability of many restaurants on the outskirts of The Villages have hurt business at the country clubs. Many people want to spend less on meals or like eating at chain restaurants, and those restaurants also bring in more business from outside The Villages, which is crucial to making a profit.

What do you think? Will ALL of the country club restaurants and pools eventually close? Will “Country Club” just mean golf courses and various other sports? Will the southern country clubs be built without restaurants and pools? Will it no longer be possible to go from the golf or tennis court to the bar or restaurant for a drink or lunch? Will players have to get into their cars or carts and drive twenty minutes or more to some restaurant where they and their pals will hope they can sit together? That certainly changes the usual idea and ideal of a country club. Perhaps the ones with the least business will be closed until the busiest get even busier and eventually make a decent profit.

Also, what is with this idea that a building is ready to be torn down in fifteen years? My home is stick-built, like the country clubs, and it is twenty-two years old. I think it is in great condition. What makes the difference? Will my house need to be torn down soon? Were the country clubs built from the beginning with a lower quality of construction than the houses?

Would it work for the country club restaurants to be leased to popular chain restaurants, or would that bring in too many outsiders and again change the idea of the more exclusive country club?

You asked a ton of questions but gave no answers. So, what do you think? I realize the questions had nothing positive, but don't want to assume your answers are all negative as well.

[Ladygolfer93]

I noticed this morning that the Hacienda Hills Country Club restaurant and pool are now closed and that demolition may begin today. Links led me to the information that the Tierra del Sol restaurant and pool were due to be demolished in 2013, but I hear that it was rebuilt instead. Also Chula Vista, Silver Lake, and other clubs, I hear, were changed. (Excuse me if any of this info is wrong.) Will this continue? The reason seems to be that they aren’t getting enough business and/or that they need expensive repairs. Buildings are being town down when they are fifteen years old, and we are told that they are at the end of their life expectancy.

I understand how economics work and that there are costs that have to be covered. I’m sure the Developer’s staff has run the numbers and knows that these restaurants are (were) costing more to run than they are (were) bringing in. That doesn’t make good business sense. I suppose the availability of many restaurants on the outskirts of The Villages have hurt business at the country clubs. Many people want to spend less on meals or like eating at chain restaurants, and those restaurants also bring in more business from outside The Villages, which is crucial to making a profit.

What do you think? Will ALL of the country club restaurants and pools eventually close? Will “Country Club” just mean golf courses and various other sports? Will the southern country clubs be built without restaurants and pools? Will it no longer be possible to go from the golf or tennis court to the bar or restaurant for a drink or lunch? Will players have to get into their cars or carts and drive twenty minutes or more to some restaurant where they and their pals will hope they can sit together? That certainly changes the usual idea and ideal of a country club. Perhaps the ones with the least business will be closed until the busiest get even busier and eventually make a decent profit.

Also, what is with this idea that a building is ready to be torn down in fifteen years? My home is stick-built, like the country clubs, and it is twenty-two years old. I think it is in great condition. What makes the difference? Will my house need to be torn down soon? Were the country clubs built from the beginning with a lower quality of construction than the houses?

Would it work for the country club restaurants to be leased to popular chain restaurants, or would that bring in too many outsiders and again change the idea of the more exclusive country club?

A LOT of thought provoking questions posed here !
Maybe (?) one factor at the heart of it is the illusion of exclusivity that has always been a part of the marketing ? It allows all of us to enjoy a community that emulates all the advantages most of us can't afford. It has really made wonderful surroundings for sure, but, only those running the number know for sure. Profit is the only thing that counts in (most) businesses and since T V's is not like a "normal" community (mayor, city council, elections, open meetings not POA or other highbred type meetings), it is after all a trade off as I see it. Personally I don't like the steady march toward fewer amenities and more acres of revenue producing projects, don't like the "trend" at all. But, I choose the community, choose the lot, and choose the house plan to build knowing there were some "un-natural/unusual" (LOL) elements at play here too; like "gates" that keep out..... nothing and no one. But, it was my choice of course. But what is ahead ? Wish I knew ! Probably what I have found most offensive is the kind of "on the fence" lack of ethics and moral clarity that allows things to happen "in the middle of the night" like sudden gate closure on "historic" side, sink hole down playing, etc. Too much is done very suddenly; but again it is a choice to live in the kind of community in which these things can happen completely legally. Perhaps serious consideration of a kind of highbred rec centers could be designed ? An informal dining room with MORE than brats and hotdogs, but with very casual furniture, and large, expansive patios with comfortable outdoor seating ? NOT a refreshment stand and not an expensive dining room to maintain like the beautiful facilities at A. Palmer club, Nancy L., etc. Would that work ? Lower over head, no wagyu beef on the menu, but interesting sandwiches and dinner salads ? Nice surroundings for drinks and food after golf at noon or evening.... and yet an option to "jump in the cart" for a reasonably priced informal meal ? More in the spirit of going to a Gator's, or national chain ? Keep overhead lower, lots of fresco dining, but as an extension of the rec centers.... keeping with the present décor of each ? Race track, lake cottage, Victorian garden, yachting..... and just make this a normal part of the rec centers rather than build more elaborate "country clubs" that require additional membership and some ( maybe ?) don't realize they are public restaurants when they first move here ? I have always thought that a rec center, with and informal dining option would be a HUGE money maker from golfers and swimmers alike ! Just my opinion to get the conversation started with the great questions you posed :ho::clap2:

[JGVillages]

My guess torn down because of mold. Another guess is the Developer will announce a plan as soon as stability returns from a Covid 19 solution. We’re all guessing so here’s mine.

[tvbound]

We just hope that the same thing of eliminating current restaurants, pools or other amenities doesn't start happening between 466 and 466A, which is the area in which we will (eventually) be buying. As the OP noted however, something like what's happening to Hacienda Hills after less than 20 years, is a bit disconcerting.

[Doro22]

The first populated areas in The Villages probably has the most older inhabitants. Many of us have no idea why we got older and would rather stay home and eat and many don't play golf as much and many either drink a lot more or have quit.

I think that the developers are doing what they can with their form of "urban renewal" by buying well priced modular homes in the historic areas, removing them and then building site built homes on their lot and selling them for reasonable prices.

I don't think anyone can stop the march of time and changes but I believe that The Villages is the least touched by urban dinge that comes with time. We seem to have attracted a lot of people who enjoy and take pride in their homes and yards and either personally see to it that it stays nice or hires someone to keep it nice.

The Country Clubs and restaurants, owned and rented out by the developers must depend on patrons to spend their money. Some restaurants aren't very well patronized for a lot of reasons and that is how the free market works. It is a tough business to maintain a restaurant with three months of high population and nine months of far less population. What do you do with staff in the off season?

Not an easy dilemma for all of Florida's restaurants and made worse by the justifiable fear brought by the pandemic.

I have watched as restaurants changed renters and some are not as good as they once were and many are run by just a couple of owners. I don't know, but we as a group are careful critics of food.

I really like the well thought out post above, and totally agree. I only in last two or three years was going to Katie Belles. I loved the ambiance there, and saw another post that Suggested that Hacianda Hills could be rebuilt as a Katie Belles. Wouldn’t that be fun!
Wishful thinking. I think that HHCC was unique and we did bring guests to their pool and patio bar. Had a few good meals there when we first moved here in 2011. But in my opinion the restaurant went downhill really fast after that. If my memory serves me...I think that the staff at the CC won a Florida lottery a few years B4 we arrived here. Can anyone verify that?

[Northwoods]

Too bad that the developer doesn’t respect the residents enough to have common courtesy to let us know the plan. JMO

I don't think the Developer owes us any explanation as to what (if anything) they plan to do with Hacienda. They own the land.
No matter what they plan to do they will get criticism from a fraction of Villagers. So I think, based on past experience, they have learned to communicate very little about their plans.

[Ladygolfer93]

Perhaps ? I respect your opinion, but also question if it really is the best business plan to be less visible and transparent. When you have sales people who proudly show off the selling points of ANY area: things like a large indoor pool in a community where many residents have skin cancer issues, medication issues, and are/were thrilled to find such an amenity, proudly show perspective residents the "private" residents club with dancing and a night club atmosphere right here with others their "age", very affordable internet and cable TV (sold out to a major corporation that never stops raising prices) every manner of free classes and to learn an amazing number of crafts and skills but never tell you, as your tour, the yoga instructor or art teachers are only there as long as your wonderful fellow villagers are willing and able to teach here FREE. Who show you an Life Long learning "college", tell you about the community college level of instruction, and then change everything. Not on here to whine and gripe, we have enough individuals like that, but to say because some people reacted to poorly to find these, and so many other "the emperor has no clothes" surprises is not quite fair to those who seeing is believing. Can't imagine "ordinary" people walking into the impressive Hacienda CC for the first time and NOT being impressed.... the circular drive, the stunning, soaring dining room with natural light.... the resort pool with SPA, reps always love to point out the (now disappearing) spas. Again before the hate remarks start, this is only being realistic, not being critical. Don't think the best business practice is keeping things quiet if you think people may be upset when things they were shown disappear one after another..... !

[Ladygolfer93]

I'm thinking the golf course, or most of it, will be saved, maybe reconfigured some, and the rest turned into lots to sell or another nursing home, senior living "facility", or maybe other rent producing building like medical offices since it is close to the main road. Doubt it would be a retail strip with grocery, etc.

[Marvic 1]

I do know that the restaurant at Orange Blossom Country Club need a renovation overhaul that place is horrible compared to the others... :duck:

[champion6]

I do know that the restaurant at Orange Blossom Country Club need a renovation overhaul that place is horrible compared to the others... :duck:What? It was remodeled/renovated about 2-3 years ago.

[thelegges]

Perhaps ? I respect your opinion, but also question if it really is the best business plan to be less visible and transparent. When you have sales people who proudly show off the selling points of ANY area: things like a large indoor pool in a community where many residents have skin cancer issues, medication issues, and are/were thrilled to find such an amenity, proudly show perspective residents the "private" residents club with dancing and a night club atmosphere right here with others their "age", very affordable internet and cable TV (sold out to a major corporation that never stops raising prices) every manner of free classes and to learn an amazing number of crafts and skills but never tell you, as your tour, the yoga instructor or art teachers are only there as long as your wonderful fellow villagers are willing and able to teach here FREE. Who show you an Life Long learning "college", tell you about the community college level of instruction, and then change everything. Not on here to whine and gripe, we have enough individuals like that, but to say because some people reacted to poorly to find these, and so many other "the emperor has no clothes" surprises is not quite fair to those who seeing is believing. Can't imagine "ordinary" people walking into the impressive Hacienda CC for the first time and NOT being impressed.... the circular drive, the stunning, soaring dining room with natural light.... the resort pool with SPA, reps always love to point out the (now disappearing) spas. Again before the hate remarks start, this is only being realistic, not being critical. Don't think the best business practice is keeping things quiet if you think people may be upset when things they were shown disappear one after another..... !

Do you really believe those who buy here, have no clue on how TV is run. Even our parents in their mid eighties did their homework before coming here. KBs in early years was a place where the developer Sent you for free surf and turf. Today they don’t need to wine and dine you to get your business. TV still sells more homes daily than most anywhere.

As far as more cancers, and medication population, you can chalk that up to people just live longer in today’s world.

But as I read your posts, you seem so disenchanted, with life here, is there somewhere else that could change your perspective of life? Maybe by the ocean, or mountains, or an intercity?

[shut the front door]

I wouldn't worry about the northern side. If the developer screws them over AGAIN, he'll pay another 40 million in a lawsuit loss.

[Marathon Man]

I don't think the Developer owes us any explanation as to what (if anything) they plan to do with Hacienda. They own the land.
No matter what they plan to do they will get criticism from a fraction of Villagers. So I think, based on past experience, they have learned to communicate very little about their plans.

Yep

[Carolynphelps]

I also heard from an employee that it’s going to be rebuilt and will be called Katie Belles. Just a restaurant!!

[Bogie Shooter]

A LOT of thought provoking questions posed here !
Maybe (?) one factor at the heart of it is the illusion of exclusivity that has always been a part of the marketing ? It allows all of us to enjoy a community that emulates all the advantages most of us can't afford. It has really made wonderful surroundings for sure, but, only those running the number know for sure. Profit is the only thing that counts in (most) businesses and since T V's is not like a "normal" community (mayor, city council, elections, open meetings not POA or other highbred type meetings), it is after all a trade off as I see it. Personally I don't like the steady march toward fewer amenities and more acres of revenue producing projects, don't like the "trend" at all. But, I choose the community, choose the lot, and choose the house plan to build knowing there were some "un-natural/unusual" (LOL) elements at play here too; like "gates" that keep out..... nothing and no one. But, it was my choice of course. But what is ahead ? Wish I knew ! Probably what I have found most offensive is the kind of "on the fence" lack of ethics and moral clarity that allows things to happen "in the middle of the night" like sudden gate closure on "historic" side, sink hole down playing, etc. Too much is done very suddenly; but again it is a choice to live in the kind of community in which these things can happen completely legally. Perhaps serious consideration of a kind of highbred rec centers could be designed ? An informal dining room with MORE than brats and hotdogs, but with very casual furniture, and large, expansive patios with comfortable outdoor seating ? NOT a refreshment stand and not an expensive dining room to maintain like the beautiful facilities at A. Palmer club, Nancy L., etc. Would that work ? Lower over head, no wagyu beef on the menu, but interesting sandwiches and dinner salads ? Nice surroundings for drinks and food after golf at noon or evening.... and yet an option to "jump in the cart" for a reasonably priced informal meal ? More in the spirit of going to a Gator's, or national chain ? Keep overhead lower, lots of fresco dining, but as an extension of the rec centers.... keeping with the present décor of each ? Race track, lake cottage, Victorian garden, yachting..... and just make this a normal part of the rec centers rather than build more elaborate "country clubs" that require additional membership and some ( maybe ?) don't realize they are public restaurants when they first move here ? I have always thought that a rec center, with and informal dining option would be a HUGE money maker from golfers and swimmers alike ! Just my opinion to get the conversation started with the great questions you posed :ho::clap2:

There are no memberships.

[DonH57]

It will be interesting to see which one will be next.

[graciegirl]

A LOT of thought provoking questions posed here !
Maybe (?) one factor at the heart of it is the illusion of exclusivity that has always been a part of the marketing ? It allows all of us to enjoy a community that emulates all the advantages most of us can't afford. It has really made wonderful surroundings for sure, but, only those running the number know for sure. Profit is the only thing that counts in (most) businesses and since T V's is not like a "normal" community (mayor, city council, elections, open meetings not POA or other highbred type meetings), it is after all a trade off as I see it. Personally I don't like the steady march toward fewer amenities and more acres of revenue producing projects, don't like the "trend" at all. But, I choose the community, choose the lot, and choose the house plan to build knowing there were some "un-natural/unusual" (LOL) elements at play here too; like "gates" that keep out..... nothing and no one. But, it was my choice of course. But what is ahead ? Wish I knew ! Probably what I have found most offensive is the kind of "on the fence" lack of ethics and moral clarity that allows things to happen "in the middle of the night" like sudden gate closure on "historic" side, sink hole down playing, etc. Too much is done very suddenly; but again it is a choice to live in the kind of community in which these things can happen completely legally. Perhaps serious consideration of a kind of highbred rec centers could be designed ? An informal dining room with MORE than brats and hotdogs, but with very casual furniture, and large, expansive patios with comfortable outdoor seating ? NOT a refreshment stand and not an expensive dining room to maintain like the beautiful facilities at A. Palmer club, Nancy L., etc. Would that work ? Lower over head, no wagyu beef on the menu, but interesting sandwiches and dinner salads ? Nice surroundings for drinks and food after golf at noon or evening.... and yet an option to "jump in the cart" for a reasonably priced informal meal ? More in the spirit of going to a Gator's, or national chain ? Keep overhead lower, lots of fresco dining, but as an extension of the rec centers.... keeping with the present décor of each ? Race track, lake cottage, Victorian garden, yachting..... and just make this a normal part of the rec centers rather than build more elaborate "country clubs" that require additional membership and some ( maybe ?) don't realize they are public restaurants when they first move here ? I have always thought that a rec center, with and informal dining option would be a HUGE money maker from golfers and swimmers alike ! Just my opinion to get the conversation started with the great questions you posed :ho::clap2:

Sink hole down playing? Sink holes happen in the west central part of Florida. It is not surprising we have one or two a year here in The Villages, usually after a big rain after an extended dry spell. If there is one, they are the responsibility of the homeowner to repair. It is wise to get insurance or keep money to self insure.

The ideas for dining here are interesting suggestions and I have noticed that price is probably the guiding force for menu choices. The residents AS A GROUP seem to be saying that they would rather dine out more and cheaper.

I was surprised by this statement;
"Probably what I have found most offensive is the kind of "on the fence" lack of ethics and moral clarity that allows things to happen "in the middle of the night" " I think that it may mean that the developers have never been open about a lot of things they do or are planning to do. I think it may be for several reasons; One already mentioned is that no matter what they do, anonymous people on Forums like this, who may have an agenda, will criticize.

And the best laid plans even from a well run organization and an ethical organization like The Villages Inc, sometimes go awry.

Probably the most important answer about the "secrecy" is that none of the Morses except the old fellow, Mr. Schwartz, was or is inclined to "toot their own horn" and be in the spotlight for ANYTHING. Even with famous people come here, the Morse Family are not evident. They don't seem to go much for "show".

Having rec centers with restaurants in them sounds like a good idea, but The Villages won't run them, they would be leased and the businesses that lease them would be the ones to choose how they are run. It is market driven and the market here seems to support a few, very few restaurants that people deem expensive and a lot that are budget friendly. There are a lot of people who have extra money but they are used to keeping it close as they have always done. Careful and thrifty best describe most Villagers, no matter how big their homes are, or how fancy their cars.

As for "what lies ahead"? This country is going to be beat up badly in about six months due to the fallout economically from this pandemic. I think that The Morse Family who are careful with their money and who have always self financed will be in as good or better position than most businesses.