Comparing covid 19 death rates - Countries and States

[GoodLife]

Current listing of the highest death rates per million in the world. Rates per million are the best way to compare countries for obvious reasons.

1 Belgium 853 per million
2. United Kingdom 659
3. Spain 606
4. Italy 577
5. Sweden 547
6. France 444
7. USA 415
8. Ireland 357
9. Netherlands 354
10. Chile 303

So USA is bad but not the worst. Sweden is the only country on the list that did not lockdown.

What if we inserted US states into the list? US States, in terms of covid 19 policies, are kind of like autonomous countries, there was no overall policy for lockdowns and mitigation handed down by federal government. States were free to choose what they did in terms of their response.

Countries and US states with highest death rates per million

1. New Jersey 1757 deaths per million
2. New York 1665
3. Connecticut 1220
4. Massachusetts 1206
5. Rhode Island 921
6. Belgium 853
7. DC 805
8. Louisiana 733
9. United Kingdom 659
10. Michigan 632

So 5 US States have the very worst death rates per million in the world. US States have 7 of the highest death rates in the world. I included District of Columbia because they keep their own stats and made their own policies about lockdown etc. Those 7 states combine for a total of 71,351 covid 19 deaths, which is 52% of all covid 19 deaths in USA. 52% of deaths and only 16% of total population.

For comparison, Florida death rate per million is 190, we are in 24th place among states, so middle of the pack. We may move up in the ranks with this recent surge in new cases. Make sure you stay safe and do not become a statistic.

[JimJohnson]

It is so sad that we could be doing much better.

[GoodLife]

It is so sad that we could be doing much better.

Well for starters, the top 4 states with highest death rates in the entire world all had laws forcing nursing homes to accept covid 19 positives.

[Carla B]

Well for starters, the top 4 states with highest death rates in the entire world all had laws forcing nursing homes to accept covid 19 positives.

And it was early on in the experience of treating COVID 19 in the U.S. and those states were battling with shortages of PPE , ventilators, and guidance from the Federal gov't.

[Arctic Fox]

Current listing of the highest death rates per million in the world. Rates per million are the best way to compare countries for obvious reasons

Thank you for putting this together, GoodLife

I suspect other countries in South America (besides Chile) and Africa will soon start appearing in the Top Ten, but a lot depends on how good their reporting is and how broad their definition of "Covid-related death" is.

[Swoop]

And it was early on in the experience of treating COVID 19 in the U.S. and those states were battling with shortages of PPE , ventilators, and guidance from the Federal gov't.

First, no state ran short of ventilators. That’s simply not true. Interesting that you think it’s the federal government’s fault, not the fault of the governor’s of those states. Those governors made the decision to force nursing homes to accept Covid positive patients, not the federal government...

[canyonblue]

The latest Florida data shows the age group from 15-34 now account for 98,263 of the positive cases, 37% of all cases. With a total death count of 35 that is a death rate of less than 0.0004. Until it starts to affect them, which it probably won't, I don't expect to see them taking it as serious as some wish.

[GoodLife]

Thank you for putting this together, GoodLife

I suspect other countries in South America (besides Chile) and Africa will soon start appearing in the Top Ten, but a lot depends on how good their reporting is and how broad their definition of "Covid-related death" is.

No worries. Brazil and Mexico are also on their way up. A lot of people think Sweden was a total disaster because they only compare it to Norway and Finland. They are quite comparable to several US states in size and population and did a lot better than many of them as well as several European countries.

Sweden's deaths keep plumetting and they have no surge of new cases. They may have reached a herd immunity threshold and might have the last laugh. 75% of their death total is from nursing homes, everyone blew that one but without that total, their strategy seems to have worked.

[Arctic Fox]

A lot of people think Sweden was a total disaster because they only compare it to Norway and Finland. They are quite comparable to several US states in size and population and did a lot better than many of them as well as several European countries. Sweden's deaths keep plumetting and they have no surge of new cases. They may have reached a herd immunity threshold and might have the last laugh. 75% of their death total is from nursing homes, everyone blew that one but without that total, their strategy seems to have worked.

Sweden treated its people as adults, and they responded accordingly.

Pen people up and, when you release them, many just go wild.

Only time will tell, but I do think Sweden took the correct approach.

[toeser]

And it was early on in the experience of treating COVID 19 in the U.S. and those states were battling with shortages of PPE , ventilators, and guidance from the Federal gov't.

There was never an actual shortage of ventilators, just a perceived shortage based upon worst case scenarios. No one actually shared a ventilator or was denied one.

[cwhitecat]

It is amazing to me that people blame the government for the spread of COVID 19.
The people who do not follow the guidelines are the ones more responsible. If you go to the grocery store you will see more people without masks than with, most people not observing social distance, going down aisles against the arrows.
People in large groups doing peaceful protests. These things were happening during the quarantine not just before and after.

[graciegirl]

Current listing of the highest death rates per million in the world. Rates per million are the best way to compare countries for obvious reasons.

1 Belgium 853 per million
2. United Kingdom 659
3. Spain 606
4. Italy 577
5. Sweden 547
6. France 444
7. USA 415
8. Ireland 357
9. Netherlands 354
10. Chile 303

So USA is bad but not the worst. Sweden is the only country on the list that did not lockdown.

What if we inserted US states into the list? US States, in terms of covid 19 policies, are kind of like autonomous countries, there was no overall policy for lockdowns and mitigation handed down by federal government. States were free to choose what they did in terms of their response.

Countries and US states with highest death rates per million

1. New Jersey 1757 deaths per million
2. New York 1665
3. Connecticut 1220
4. Massachusetts 1206
5. Rhode Island 921
6. Belgium 853
7. DC 805
8. Louisiana 733
9. United Kingdom 659
10. Michigan 632

So 5 US States have the very worst death rates per million in the world. US States have 7 of the highest death rates in the world. I included District of Columbia because they keep their own stats and made their own policies about lockdown etc. Those 7 states combine for a total of 71,351 covid 19 deaths, which is 52% of all covid 19 deaths in USA. 52% of deaths and only 16% of total population.

For comparison, Florida death rate per million is 190, we are in 24th place among states, so middle of the pack. We may move up in the ranks with this recent surge in new cases. Make sure you stay safe and do not become a statistic.

Debating with another person who has no credentials to make sense of this on a public forum without valid actual names is really what we seem to be doing. sigh.

This poster, Graciegirl, ago 80, previous pre-school teacher and card carrying mother and grandmother asks OP this question in a different way.

What percentage of people who are hospitalized for Covid-19 die.

By age.

Thank you.

[oneclickplus]

going down aisles against the arrows.


That's just funny. Just yesterday I saw someone roll through a stop sign.

[toeser]

Thank you for putting this together, GoodLife

I suspect other countries in South America (besides Chile) and Africa will soon start appearing in the Top Ten, but a lot depends on how good their reporting is and how broad their definition of "Covid-related death" is.

With honest and accurate reporting, both China and India would top the list. With India, it's accuracy. China is deliberating covering up their results.

[jnsbill]

can you provide the link to this info?

[GoodLife]

Debating with another person who has no credentials to make sense of this on a public forum without valid actual names is really what we seem to be doing. sigh.

This poster, Graciegirl, ago 80, previous pre-school teacher and card carrying mother and grandmother asks OP this question in a different way.

What percentage of people who are hospitalized for Covid-19 die.

By age.

Thank you.

The CDC best estimate for Infection Fatality Rate for age 65+ is 1.3% I think this is calculated using both confirmed cases and estimated asymptomatic cases.

The older you are, the death rate goes up. But even more important than age are underlying medical issues. If you are healthy but old you have a much better chance of surviving. If you are unhealthy and old, your odds go way down. Your race also matters. People with underlying medical conditions such as heart disease and diabetes were hospitalized six times as often as otherwise healthy individuals infected with the novel coronavirus during the first four months of the pandemic, and they died 12 times as often, according to a federal health report Monday.

Your odds of dying go up if disease is serious enough to be hospitalized and even more if put on a ventilator. They are not using ventilators as much now because they don't seem to work all that well.

Here is a Wapo article about the CDC report, and the CDC report itself. Lots of info in the CDC report to assess individual risk based on age and health.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/15/patients-with-underlying-conditions-were-12-times-more-likely-die-covid-19-than-otherwise-healthy-people-cdc-finds/

Coronavirus Disease 2019 Case Surveillance — United States, January 22–May 30, 2020 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924e2.htm?s_cid=mm6924e2_w)

From an anonymous unnamed poster who seems to post more scientific info and links to back it up than anyone else and wisely chooses not to reveal identity and personal info on the internet.

:welcome:

[Yucatan2]

Debating with another person who has no credentials to make sense of this on a public forum without valid actual names is really what we seem to be doing. sigh.

This poster, Graciegirl, ago 80, previous pre-school teacher and card carrying mother and grandmother asks OP this question in a different way.

What percentage of people who are hospitalized for Covid-19 die.

By age.

Thank you.

Gracie, you can see this for yourself on the Florida COVID website here: ww11.doh.state.fl.us
This is the line list of deaths in Florida since they first started keeping the records.
They are listed county by county. Just scroll down through the pages and pages until you get to the county you are interested in. Every age is listed and the date of their death.
I guess you still would not know what percentage of these people are dying in the hospital on a ventilator however. But you do get a sense that most people who die of COVID are quite elderly, many of whom may have been going to die anyway at these advanced ages. I do note that in Broward county, the last deaths dated 7/1 through 7/11, 17 people died, and 9 of them were under age 55.

[zendog3]

I don't think Sweden is the best model to look to for fighting pandemic. Look at S. Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, even China. Those countries have done a much better job of fighting the disease. Some have a serious handicap like a lot of population crammed into small spaces. What they did well is jump on the problem with force when it was small. You can contact trace and isolate when your country is having only a few cases each day. No way to do that when you have 15,000 cases in a day. Putting this genie in the tub is impossible, we are beyond control. In New Zealand and Australia the people had confidence in their leaders and a social cohesiveness. They believed their leaders when they said it as a serious problem that required everyone to sacrifice for the good of all. And their leaders were forceful leaders against an enemy of their people. In the Asian countries that have a cultural norm for cooperation that leaders exploited to fight the disease. They gave up part of their freedom to fight a common threat.

Correspond that with the US. We have a fractured and decisive society. We have little national cohesiveness, with a lot of people unwilling to sacrifice any of their freedom for the common good. Even when the facts are known, a fair percentage of the population are unwilling to accept them and inside cling to magical thinking and hope instead of science. And, it must be said, when the problem was clear to our best scientists, many of our leaders chose to ignore science and spread happy-talk and unrealistic optimistic thinking instead of LEADING -- which is asking all of us to join together to fight the disease.

Our sense of freedom is our strength, but without an equal sense of responsibility to one another it is our weakness.

[GoodLife]

And, it must be said, when the problem was clear to our best scientists, many of our leaders chose to ignore science and spread happy-talk and unrealistic optimistic thinking instead of LEADING -- which is asking all of us to join together to fight the disease.

January 21. Fauci: This is not a major threat for the people of the United States. And this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.

Feb 17 Fauci: There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask, the risk is miniscule, people should be more worried about the annual flu.

March 9 Fauci: "If you are a healthy young person, there is no reason if you want to go on a cruise ship, go on a cruise ship...."

[graciegirl]

The CDC best estimate for Infection Fatality Rate for age 65+ is 1.3% I think this is calculated using both confirmed cases and estimated asymptomatic cases.

The older you are, the death rate goes up. But even more important than age are underlying medical issues. If you are healthy but old you have a much better chance of surviving. If you are unhealthy and old, your odds go way down. Your race also matters. People with underlying medical conditions such as heart disease and diabetes were hospitalized six times as often as otherwise healthy individuals infected with the novel coronavirus during the first four months of the pandemic, and they died 12 times as often, according to a federal health report Monday.

Your odds of dying go up if disease is serious enough to be hospitalized and even more if put on a ventilator. They are not using ventilators as much now because they don't seem to work all that well.

Here is a Wapo article about the CDC report, and the CDC report itself. Lots of info in the CDC report to assess individual risk based on age and health.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/15/patients-with-underlying-conditions-were-12-times-more-likely-die-covid-19-than-otherwise-healthy-people-cdc-finds/

Coronavirus Disease 2019 Case Surveillance — United States, January 22–May 30, 2020 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924e2.htm?s_cid=mm6924e2_w)

From an anonymous unnamed poster who seems to post more scientific info and links to back it up than anyone else and wisely chooses not to reveal identity and personal info on the internet.

:welcome:


Now the CDC says old people are dropping like flies.
COVID-19 Pandemic Planning Scenarios | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html)

Not anonymous really at all, Graciegirl.

[rphil11ort]

What bothers me if you die because of a heart attach or drinking your self to death but have the virus you are counted as a corona death. not the way we should be looking at this

[BamaBoy451]

What bothers me if you die because of a heart attach or drinking your self to death but have the virus you are counted as a corona death. not the way we should be looking at this

Bothers me too. Legally it's medical fraud and should be treated as such.

[EastCoastDawg]

I don't think Sweden is the best model to look to for fighting pandemic. Look at S. Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, even China.

As a previous poster said, "time will tell". Several countries that had low initial numbers are now experiencing a second wave. Will Sweden avoid this by having "got it out of the way" first time round? Who knows - check back in a year.

There is also the trade-off between deaths and disruption of life. In China they dragged people from their homes to quarantine them. Sure, that may have cut the infection rate but would you really want that happening here? In Sweden they let people lead fairly normal lives, with certain precautions. If people didn't want to go to a restaurant then they didn't. Their choice. Higher risk of infection, but a better quality of life.

[Gulfcoast]

Debating with another person who has no credentials to make sense of this on a public forum without valid actual names is really what we seem to be doing. sigh.

This poster, Graciegirl, ago 80, previous pre-school teacher and card carrying mother and grandmother asks OP this question in a different way.

What percentage of people who are hospitalized for Covid-19 die.

By age.

Thank you.

In terms of this virus:

I can tell you that I'm in my mid 50's, reasonably healthy and rarely get sick. I don't worry so much about me or my husband.

I have a healthy older teen and 20 something. I do not worry about them.

I have family members in their 80's+ and those are the folks that I worry about. I do not think that your concerns are misplaced and I do think that you are wise to take precautions.

[Bonnevie]

all this focus on whether you die or not misses other possible problems. someone sent me this and what it says is true:

Chicken pox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect. We know this because it's been around for years, and has been studied medically for years.

Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks. We know this because it's been around for years, and been studied medically for years.

HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system, and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.

Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.

[Gulfcoast]

Coronaviruses are not new things, though. I'm not seeing why there would be any reason to suspect that COVID-19 would remain dormant and ready to reappear anymore than any other Coronavirus related cold. COVID-19 is just a particularly nasty version of something that is already pretty well understood.

[jimjamuser]

Current listing of the highest death rates per million in the world. Rates per million are the best way to compare countries for obvious reasons.

1 Belgium 853 per million
2. United Kingdom 659
3. Spain 606
4. Italy 577
5. Sweden 547
6. France 444
7. USA 415
8. Ireland 357
9. Netherlands 354
10. Chile 303

So USA is bad but not the worst. Sweden is the only country on the list that did not lockdown.

What if we inserted US states into the list? US States, in terms of covid 19 policies, are kind of like autonomous countries, there was no overall policy for lockdowns and mitigation handed down by federal government. States were free to choose what they did in terms of their response.

Countries and US states with highest death rates per million

1. New Jersey 1757 deaths per million
2. New York 1665
3. Connecticut 1220
4. Massachusetts 1206
5. Rhode Island 921
6. Belgium 853
7. DC 805
8. Louisiana 733
9. United Kingdom 659
10. Michigan 632

So 5 US States have the very worst death rates per million in the world. US States have 7 of the highest death rates in the world. I included District of Columbia because they keep their own stats and made their own policies about lockdown etc. Those 7 states combine for a total of 71,351 covid 19 deaths, which is 52% of all covid 19 deaths in USA. 52% of deaths and only 16% of total population.

For comparison, Florida death rate per million is 190, we are in 24th place among states, so middle of the pack. We may move up in the ranks with this recent surge in new cases. Make sure you stay safe and do not become a statistic.
Thanks for doing that, compiling that data. I just have a general, big picture, statement or opinion--The past may NOT be prologue in this case. The order of CV deaths for countries and states WILL change. For example, Kansas had very little CV in the recent PAST, but today it is on the list of RAPIDLY rising cases. A certain Dr. Gupta was asked how CV going to go in Fl. Hid answer was, "Floridians were going to DIE!". "Six hospitals in Miami Dade are full, also 40 ICUs across the state." "Disney World opened up, it is NOT hard to predict where Fl. is going BECAUSE their STATE LEADERSHIP is remiss in its duty." The Villages has fared well so far to date. We must hope that past is prologue!

[jimjamuser]

First, no state ran short of ventilators. That’s simply not true. Interesting that you think it’s the federal government’s fault, not the fault of the governor’s of those states. Those governors made the decision to force nursing homes to accept Covid positive patients, not the federal government...
Governors do NOT control the DPA. There were lots of body bags in refrigerator trucks in NYC. I distinctly remember a clip of an NYC Doctor saying that they had to "jury rig" the hoses to make 1 ventilator do 2 patients.
And they had to pull some patients OFF of ventilators to give to other, better-likely-to-live CV patients. It happened!

[EastCoastDawg]

Chicken pox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect...

True enough, but that article fails to mention any of the many viruses that do NOT have long term effects, so does not give a balanced view.

There are some people who have had Covid-19 and are experiencing effects long after the accepted recovery period, but there are many more who have had the virus with seemingly no effects at all.

Until enough time has elapsed for Covid-19 infection data to be studied properly we will not know in which camp it belongs.

[jimjamuser]

No worries. Brazil and Mexico are also on their way up. A lot of people think Sweden was a total disaster because they only compare it to Norway and Finland. They are quite comparable to several US states in size and population and did a lot better than many of them as well as several European countries.

Sweden's deaths keep plumetting and they have no surge of new cases. They may have reached a herd immunity threshold and might have the last laugh. 75% of their death total is from nursing homes, everyone blew that one but without that total, their strategy seems to have worked.
Sweden does NOT compare to ANY US states because none has National Health Care like Sweden has. This and OTHER societal differences allow Sweden to have increased prevention and just overall health compared to the US. Google international list of things like infant mortality. The US has the greatest medical experts on the planet, but that does NOT trickle down to the masses. Note that the US is far down on the list, also on (surprise to some) upward mobility.

[jimjamuser]

I don't think Sweden is the best model to look to for fighting pandemic. Look at S. Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, even China. Those countries have done a much better job of fighting the disease. Some have a serious handicap like a lot of population crammed into small spaces. What they did well is jump on the problem with force when it was small. You can contact trace and isolate when your country is having only a few cases each day. No way to do that when you have 15,000 cases in a day. Putting this genie in the tub is impossible, we are beyond control. In New Zealand and Australia the people had confidence in their leaders and a social cohesiveness. They believed their leaders when they said it as a serious problem that required everyone to sacrifice for the good of all. And their leaders were forceful leaders against an enemy of their people. In the Asian countries that have a cultural norm for cooperation that leaders exploited to fight the disease. They gave up part of their freedom to fight a common threat.

Correspond that with the US. We have a fractured and decisive society. We have little national cohesiveness, with a lot of people unwilling to sacrifice any of their freedom for the common good. Even when the facts are known, a fair percentage of the population are unwilling to accept them and inside cling to magical thinking and hope instead of science. And, it must be said, when the problem was clear to our best scientists, many of our leaders chose to ignore science and spread happy-talk and unrealistic optimistic thinking instead of LEADING -- which is asking all of us to join together to fight the disease.

Our sense of freedom is our strength, but without an equal sense of responsibility to one another it is our weakness.
That was sssssoooooo beautiful Zen doggie, dog and I like your cars. "putting the genie in the tub" was (I hope) pun intended. Either way, it is QUITE funny. Hope that genie does not drown in that tub! Needs a lifeguard.

[jimjamuser]

all this focus on whether you die or not misses other possible problems. someone sent me this and what it says is true:

Chicken pox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect. We know this because it's been around for years, and has been studied medically for years.

Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks. We know this because it's been around for years, and been studied medically for years.

HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system, and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.

Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.
Great post. Thanks for taking the trouble. Posts like that are illuminating.

[graciegirl]

all this focus on whether you die or not misses other possible problems. someone sent me this and what it says is true:

Chicken pox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect. We know this because it's been around for years, and has been studied medically for years.

Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks. We know this because it's been around for years, and been studied medically for years.

HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system, and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.

Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.

Very well thought out and well written post and these views I have thought about for years. At one time University of Cincinnati was researching whether the measles virus could or does reemerge as MS. There is so much that we are learning as genetics is used more and more to unlock medical problems.

[jimjamuser]

Coronaviruses are not new things, though. I'm not seeing why there would be any reason to suspect that COVID-19 would remain dormant and ready to reappear anymore than any other Coronavirus related cold. COVID-19 is just a particularly nasty version of something that is already pretty well understood.
A Federal Department set up to prevent CV was working on a vaccine when its budget was scrapped 3 years ago.

[rmd2]

And it was early on in the experience of treating COVID 19 in the U.S. and those states were battling with shortages of PPE , ventilators, and guidance from the Federal gov't.

Not true. The nursing homes managers in NY begged Cuomo not to put COVID positive in their nursing homes. They told him they did not have the facilities to handle regular nursing home patients and COVID patients too. He threatened to take away their nursing home license. Cuomo handled that, not the Feds.

[forebubba]

The US has 4% of the world's population and 30% of the world's deaths due to covid 19
The US people spend by far the most for health cost.
Why is this?

[graciegirl]

Not true. The nursing homes managers in NY begged Cuomo not to put COVID positive in their nursing homes. They told him they did not have the facilities to handle regular nursing home patients and COVID patients too. He threatened to take away their nursing home license. Cuomo handled that, not the Feds.

I do not believe for one second that Governor Cuomo or the Federal Government or anyone wants to do harm. I think this damn bug has put us all over a barrel. It is less than six months and this new virus is cutting a caper and attacking us in a myriad of ways and it has not really allowed times for all the great minds of the world to know just what IS the best thing to do in many cases. ANYONE who thinks they have it all figured out enough to really be able to know what to do next has not emerged in the fray. We have liars, deniers, and criers. We have hoaxes and plots and conspiracies. We have everybody peddling as fast as they can, and it is not simple. It can destroy life and the economic structure that supports all of us. I am not a scholar but it does remind me of King Solomon in the bible who had two women who both said an infant was theirs and he said that the only thing he could think to do is to divide it with his sword. This is a problem much like that one.

Be safe. Don't kiss the UPS man. Take your vitamins and wouldn't hurt to find your rosary.

[sloanst]

I guess any excuse will do to support your position. NY had enough ventilators but decided to auction them off in 2016. China purchased all of the PPE when Covid started there but decide to NOT close their airport to the outside world. Mixing Covid with non-Covid was the decision of the governors not the Fed.

[EastCoastDawg]

The US has 4% of the world's population and 30% of the world's deaths due to covid 19. The US people spend by far the most for health cost. Why is this?

I can suggest two possible reasons:

1) Mobility - as a %, there are far more people moving around in, and going into and out of, the USA than, say, India or China (each having 18% of the World's population) so the virus came into the US at many entry points and got quickly spread around; and

2) Accuracy of reporting - many deaths in the outlying regions of India and China may have not been recorded as Covid-related, and the reporting may not even have reached the national statistics yet. With 2.8bn people between them, it wouldn't take much of a change in their actual Covid-related death rate to send them rocketing past the US in terms of actual numbers of deaths.

[rustyp]

Current listing of the highest death rates per million in the world. Rates per million are the best way to compare countries for obvious reasons.

1 Belgium 853 per million
2. United Kingdom 659
3. Spain 606
4. Italy 577
5. Sweden 547
6. France 444
7. USA 415
8. Ireland 357
9. Netherlands 354
10. Chile 303

So USA is bad but not the worst. Sweden is the only country on the list that did not lockdown.

What if we inserted US states into the list? US States, in terms of covid 19 policies, are kind of like autonomous countries, there was no overall policy for lockdowns and mitigation handed down by federal government. States were free to choose what they did in terms of their response.

Countries and US states with highest death rates per million

1. New Jersey 1757 deaths per million
2. New York 1665
3. Connecticut 1220
4. Massachusetts 1206
5. Rhode Island 921
6. Belgium 853
7. DC 805
8. Louisiana 733
9. United Kingdom 659
10. Michigan 632

So 5 US States have the very worst death rates per million in the world. US States have 7 of the highest death rates in the world. I included District of Columbia because they keep their own stats and made their own policies about lockdown etc. Those 7 states combine for a total of 71,351 covid 19 deaths, which is 52% of all covid 19 deaths in USA. 52% of deaths and only 16% of total population.

For comparison, Florida death rate per million is 190, we are in 24th place among states, so middle of the pack. We may move up in the ranks with this recent surge in new cases. Make sure you stay safe and do not become a statistic.

Agreed with rate per million a better metric than raw numbers however still not an accurate picture. Somehow it needs to be combined with population density per sq mile or acre or something. For example about rate per million not a totally accurate picture is to say Antarctica has experienced 0 deaths per million.My seasonal home is near the border of Canada in New York State. Thus far in this county there is 0 deaths and 40 confirmed cases. Independent of population that is a death rate of 0 per million as compared to the 1665 per million published for all of New York State. So my intuition tells me you year rounders in TV think you are better off being in Florida than New York. Before you jump do you feel better off in TV than Miami - get the message ? Well you can't beat 0 death rate plus it's mid 70 degrees and low humidity here in the mountains. Also the people in this county are taking mask and social distancing to levels tens of times higher than that of TV when I left for the summer. And yes I voluntarily quarantined for 14 days when I arrived.

[Byte1]

I don't know why any of you insist on looking at other countries for answers. To suggest that other countries pay less for health care is is like comparing Chinese laborers to our union workers. Why do we pay more? For one thing, socialist countries take about half of your pay check in payroll taxes to pay for state run health care. Do you want to halve your pay check? We also have more CT machines and other diagnostic machines than most of the world combined. Our doctors have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in malpractice insurance. Lawyers in one country that I know of work as security guards for our embassy because we pay more than they can make. I know one pediatrician in another country that works as a receptionist in our health unit in our embassy. Why? Because they do not make any money in socialist countries and we pay better. Be careful of what you wish for. Do you really want to sacrifice your liberty/freedom just to give the gov. control of the most important aspects of your lives? Don't preach to others about how great other countries are until you have lived in those countries. Better yet, try living in those other countries as one of their citizens. And you wonder why we have millions that want to come and live here in America?

Mass hysteria is prevalent in America. Isn't it interesting to find out that you can't control EVERYTHING in life?

I remember when AIDS was the greatest scare. Children that were infected with HIV were sent home from school and not allowed to attend around other children. Workers were let go if it was discovered they were infected. The world as we know it was ending.

Remember SARS?
I'm old but not old enough to remember Small Pox. But that was a bad one too. I do remember the vaccinations though. Same with polio.
How about the plague? I do remember getting a plague shot in the military, as well as Typhus.

The point is that eventually someone will decide on how to modify our behavior so that we can live reasonably normal lives again.

I live in Sumter Co. Out of all those tested positive for COVID19 in The Villages, my understanding is that only 8 or 9 Villages residents have actually died from the virus (in Sumter Co). I do not wish to become infected to test my theory but it seems to me that the death rate to positive tests is less than a hundredth of a percent. Just a guesstimate, so I am sure someone with better knowledge and better math skills will come on here and correct me. Thank you in advance.

From what I understand, The Villages hospital is not over run yet.

[talleyjm]

Excellent post❗️ My son in NYC keeps beating me up with Florida’s recent uptick in cases - now I can fight back with your stats 🤪

[mneumann02]

I don't know why any of you insist on looking at other countries for answers. To suggest that other countries pay less for health care is is like comparing Chinese laborers to our union workers. Why do we pay more? For one thing, socialist countries take about half of your pay check in payroll taxes to pay for state run health care. Do you want to halve your pay check? We also have more CT machines and other diagnostic machines than most of the world combined. Our doctors have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in malpractice insurance. Lawyers in one country that I know of work as security guards for our embassy because we pay more than they can make. I know one pediatrician in another country that works as a receptionist in our health unit in our embassy. Why? Because they do not make any money in socialist countries and we pay better. Be careful of what you wish for. Do you really want to sacrifice your liberty/freedom just to give the gov. control of the most important aspects of your lives? Don't preach to others about how great other countries are until you have lived in those countries. Better yet, try living in those other countries as one of their citizens. And you wonder why we have millions that want to come and live here in America?

Mass hysteria is prevalent in America. Isn't it interesting to find out that you can't control EVERYTHING in life?

I remember when AIDS was the greatest scare. Children that were infected with HIV were sent home from school and not allowed to attend around other children. Workers were let go if it was discovered they were infected. The world as we know it was ending.

Remember SARS?
I'm old but not old enough to remember Small Pox. But that was a bad one too. I do remember the vaccinations though. Same with polio.
How about the plague? I do remember getting a plague shot in the military, as well as Typhus.

The point is that eventually someone will decide on how to modify our behavior so that we can live reasonably normal lives again.

I live in Sumter Co. Out of all those tested positive for COVID19 in The Villages, my understanding is that only 8 or 9 Villages residents have actually died from the virus (in Sumter Co). I do not wish to become infected to test my theory but it seems to me that the death rate to positive tests is less than a hundredth of a percent. Just a guesstimate, so I am sure someone with better knowledge and better math skills will come on here and correct me. Thank you in advance.

From what I understand, The Villages hospital is not over run yet.

The math here is very off- "the death rate to positive tests is less than a hundredth of a percent." The death rate for everyone getting Covid-19 is running around 5% world-wide. The death rate, if you are 70-79 is around 16%, as published by a link to the CDC by a previous poster. That is my age group. I do not like those odds, so my wife and I are taking every precaution. This is not PANICKING as some posters like to accuse, this is being realistic. This pandemic is not a hoax, this is not political, this is not a "scamdemic" as I have read here. This is a deadly health crises that severely affects older people more than younger ones. If everyone had taken this seriously back in March, we would be through this. It is the people who don't wear masks, who gather in large groups, who compare this to the flu, who don't take precautions- those are the people spreading this deadly virus and killing people who catch it.

[GoodLife]

Excellent post❗️ My son in NYC keeps beating me up with Florida’s recent uptick in cases - now I can fight back with your stats 🤪

Save this graph and email it to him.

NY deaths per million vs Florida Texas Arizona combined

85223

[Skip]

Current listing of the highest death rates per million in the world. Rates per million are the best way to compare countries for obvious reasons.

1 Belgium 853 per million
2. United Kingdom 659
3. Spain 606
4. Italy 577
5. Sweden 547
6. France 444
7. USA 415
8. Ireland 357
9. Netherlands 354
10. Chile 303


I keep track of the same figures each week.
You forgot a very important number:
China 3 (per million)

Skip

[Swoop]

Governors do NOT control the DPA. There were lots of body bags in refrigerator trucks in NYC. I distinctly remember a clip of an NYC Doctor saying that they had to "jury rig" the hoses to make 1 ventilator do 2 patients.
And they had to pull some patients OFF of ventilators to give to other, better-likely-to-live CV patients. It happened!
You “remember” the clip - post a link to it. I can definitely post a link to governors in NY & PA forcing nursing homes to accept Covid positive patients.

[JimJohnson]

As long as the bulk of deaths remain in minority communities, nothing will change.

[riley2011]

It is so sad that we could be doing much better.

Yes, we could be doing better if China hadn’t lied!!

[Two Bills]

As long as the bulk of deaths remain in minority communities, nothing will change.

Oh come on!
Even BLM have not claimed that the virus is racist. (Yet!)

[JimJohnson]

Yes, we could be doing better if China hadn’t lied!!

That don’t pass the smell test. We knew China lied in February and we are still nowhere near a plan.

[JimJohnson]

Oh come on!
Even BLM have not claimed that the virus is racist. (Yet!)

I agree, but all in positions to know, understand that this virus is killing minorities at a much higher rate than whites.

[oldtimes]

I agree, but all in positions to know, understand that this virus is killing minorities at a much higher rate than whites.

So maybe if we deny it ever happened the problem will go away.

[Two Bills]

I agree, but all in positions to know, understand that this virus is killing minorities at a much higher rate than whites.

Obesity, diabetes and other underlying conditions reduce chances of surviving the virus.
Maybe there is a higher incidence of those conditions in the minority community?

[Byte1]

The math here is very off- "the death rate to positive tests is less than a hundredth of a percent." The death rate for everyone getting Covid-19 is running around 5% world-wide. The death rate, if you are 70-79 is around 16%, as published by a link to the CDC by a previous poster. That is my age group. I do not like those odds, so my wife and I are taking every precaution. This is not PANICKING as some posters like to accuse, this is being realistic. This pandemic is not a hoax, this is not political, this is not a "scamdemic" as I have read here. This is a deadly health crises that severely affects older people more than younger ones. If everyone had taken this seriously back in March, we would be through this. It is the people who don't wear masks, who gather in large groups, who compare this to the flu, who don't take precautions- those are the people spreading this deadly virus and killing people who catch it.

If you go back and read my post again, you will see that I was referencing the ratio of infected to death in Sumter co. portion of The Villages only. Sorry if I did not make that clear. I do not concern myself with other countries when my country should be the major concern, our state, our county our community.

[chet2020]

Not true. The nursing homes managers in NY begged Cuomo not to put COVID positive in their nursing homes. They told him they did not have the facilities to handle regular nursing home patients and COVID patients too. He threatened to take away their nursing home license. Cuomo handled that, not the Feds.

Nope, most nursing homes wanted the patients because they wanted the revenue.