Crazy As Hell

[John41]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.

[anothersteve]

Those "non violent" calls can turn violent pretty quick. Stupid!!
Steve

[Joe V.]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.

My long time friend from St. Pete has now decided to move up to TV because of this. That is good news for me.

[billethkid]

These are the nonsensical decisions that come from uninformed political decisions.
By people who have absolutely no background or experience.

When the results of these decisions go sideways and someone gets hurt or killed, we will then get the next line of nonsensical BS!!

(Making a diligent effort to remain polite about such incompetence in my response).

[mamamia54]

It seems all the the things the social workers will be handling can go south pretty quick. I wonder how the social workers feel about it. I’m sure after the first call where one gets hurt or killed, they will rethink that ridiculous idea. To me, the whole idea of defunding and dismantling the police is ridiculous.

[Stu from NYC]

It seems all the the things the social workers will be handling can go south pretty quick. I wonder how the social workers feel about it. I’m sure after the first call where one gets hurt or killed, they will rethink that ridiculous idea. To me, the whole idea of defunding and dismantling the police is ridiculous.

You beat me to this.

How can politicians be so stupid and irresponsible

[davem4616]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.


they'll be advertising for social workers shortly....all the 'cupcakes' from the liberal states that have absolutely no clue other than classroom BS will apply ...

that will not be fun to watch

[mtdjed]

That will work well. I hope the mayor, Rick Kriseman, has the opportunity to assist in some of these encounters to experience the wisdom of such a plan.

But it is not only his plan. The Chief of Police supports the plan, and will be hiring 18 to 20 (Not 25) social workers to handle the 13,000 to 14,000 non violent calls out of 260,000 total calls experienced each year in St Petersburg. These social workers will be police workers in plain cloths and will not carry weapons. According to the plan, these social workers will cover the city between 5 AM until 2 AM.

The breakdown of 13,000 non violent crimes of course is after the events are tallied. The dispatchers who take the calls don't have the advantage of knowing which calls will be non violent.

So what happens as the social worker tries to calm down an intoxicated person that suddenly turns violent. Do you get to call timeout.

Obviously , they must have this all worked out.

[mamamia54]

You beat me to this.

How can politicians be so stupid and irresponsible

Lately it seems stupid and irresponsible is exactly what they are. I’m beginning to not know who is worse, the rioters or the politicians caving in to all these crazy, nonsensical demands.

[Stu from NYC]

Lately it seems stupid and irresponsible is exactly what they are. I’m beginning to not know who is worse, the rioters or the politicians caving in to all these crazy, nonsensical demands.

Who would be dumb enough to take the job and put themselves in harms way like this

[Stu from NYC]

anj politicians out there that wants a rather dangerous job that they have no training for?

[Two Bills]

........and the few remaining police officers will have to go with them for security and backup!

[riley2011]

You beat me to this.

How can politicians be so stupid and irresponsible

You’re kidding, right??

[Tom2172]

Politicians have unlimited stupidly
Let the politicians personally respond to these calls!
They will learn quickly that being stuck on stupid is life threatening

[camaguey48]

Because they are

[Niferlou06]

And, just how many police Officers are out of a job because of this dangerous decision? Back-the-Blue

[MandoMan]

Do you know the saying, “To a hammer, every problem looks like a nail”? That’s the problem with having cops handle these problems, we are told. I understand that cops are often not properly trained to act as counselors for these problems. Drunk? Cuff them! Mental health crisis? Use the Taser! Drug overdose? Take them to jail!

Well, of course, that’s not really the way it is. In most instances, they do a better job and make the right decisions and save lives. So is a social worker ready to handle any of these problems when people turn violent? Are they armed? Will they have police backup? Will someone with schizophrenia off his meds understand that this is a “safe” social worker? Would you be willing to handle these problems unarmed on the street or in someone’s house without backup? I wouldn’t!

Maybe what will happen is that one cop and one social worker will start riding together. Cop for handling violence and providing protection, social worker for people who need help solving, say, a homeless crisis or a reference to a drug counselor. Then the social worker would have protection, and the cop could avoid making things worse. But of course, then the cop would have no armed backup unless more cops were called in.

(My dad was the head chaplain for the Denver Police Department and carried a Lieutenant’s shield. He would ride a shift with any cop who wanted to talk, day or night. He didn’t want to carry a gun, so they compromised on his always carrying an Ultra-Stinger flashlight that could blind suspects for a few seconds and crack any skull if swung properly. Maybe social workers would carry these flashlights.)

Perhaps instead, cops should be required to have solid college coursework in social welfare and counseling and thorough training in de-escalation techniques. It would help a LOT if they would learn to speak with a calm, relaxing voice instead of shouting at people to get on the ground. I know a lot of the people cops deal with are low-lifes who treat them badly. That shouldn’t be. The lack of respect shown to police officers is at the root of the problem of “racist” cops. They learn that from how they are treated. I can’t blame them. They aren’t superheroes. But the cycle of abuse has to start somewhere, and it’s easier to train a thousand cops to calm down and de-escalate than train a hundred thousand angry people who have been taught from childhood to hate cops.

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.

[Lblueocala]

Wait till social workers get killed, and if it becomes violent do the social workers then call police for help? The government does solve anything, they create more problems not less and putting them in control is a very bad idea

[stan the man]

UK police officers do not carry guns on a regular basis...follow the mother country

[bgonzen]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.
Good luck with that Mayor. Hope you have nice nest egg socked away for you worker compensation increased costs!

[George Page]

The social workers can organize a Kum Ba Yah sing-a-long when they get there

[michellevanhaste]

Agreed

[rlcooper70]

Have you done a bit of research on what happened with Camden NJ defunded the entire police department? They had 350 officers in 2010 and the entire county now has 401 (2018) ... crime is nearly half and cost is way down as the government pensions were "modified". And replacing "some" officers with social workers is very different than replacing the entire force. Ha ha. Or were you not aware that 25 is only 4.5% of the 562 police officers? Did you over-react? Shame on you.

[camaguey48]

Wait till social workers get killed, and if it becomes violent do the social workers then call police for help? The government does solve anything, they create more problems not less and putting them in control is a very bad idea
A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves. Edward R. Murrow

[Gulfcoast]

Lately it seems stupid and irresponsible is exactly what they are. I’m beginning to not know who is worse, the rioters or the politicians caving in to all these crazy, nonsensical demands.

They are one and the same. Those that aid and abet are responsible, too.

[banjobob]

In regard to St Pete mayor's loonesy we are in a very safe location but armed and trained, should the perils of the mob of thugs come here.

[Dana1963]

It works out so much better in Sumter County no matter what everyone gets jailed. For everyday you spend in jail a person is assessed $50 on top of fine. Then may get some type of mental health or substance abuse help usually these people have minimum paying job with no health insurance ultimately no counseling’s its a revolving door. The only help for offenders I have seen in our area is House of Hope prayer counseling.

[Jazzman]

Have you done a bit of research on what happened with Camden NJ defunded the entire police department? They had 350 officers in 2010 and the entire county now has 401 (2018) ... crime is nearly half and cost is way down as the government pensions were "modified". And replacing "some" officers with social workers is very different than replacing the entire force. Ha ha. Or were you not aware that 25 is only 4.5% of the 562 police officers? Did you over-react? Shame on you.

What you say regarding the number of officers in Camden is correct. However if you believe that crime dropped by almost half, no doubt you didn’t live in the southern part of NJ or the suburbs of NJ in close proximity to Philadelphia. And the state police supplement the Camden force when necessary. Did you know that as well?

[allsport]

Nurses have handled these situations for decades without fire power. Violent people cause violence and the police have escalated situations for years. Rarely in the ED did we need to call police and we had most of those situations present on a regular basis. Call when you need help.

[jonathanb]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.
They will find out when one of these “so called” non violent incidents turns violent and they are ill equipped to handle it.

[frank1975]

With indy racing coming in oct 24th this should be good. I was planning on being there. Not sure now.

[Scorpyo]

Actually I’m in favor of this. Up to now all we’ve had is a bunch of people who were all talk and no action. They made it seem like the majority of police were brutal hate mongers. They talked about defunding police. They claimed social workers could do the job of police in many instances. Well, up to that point it was nothing but talking points which were supported by a media that sensationalized isolated instances of the rare bad cop using excessive force. I think anyone with a brain would ascertain that this direction, if it was actually employed, would be disastrous. It would show that there really is no alternative to police protection. Sure additional training could not hurt but defunding would be a death sentence for many. As I said, I’m in favor of it. That’s why I’m confident it will never really be fully implemented. The media may show a single picture of one tiny social worker confronting a crazed drug addict but they won’t show the picture of SWAT standing 2 feet behind the social worker.

[newgirl]

I disagree !!! Totally disagree and if this happens it will take a bit but in the long run our country will be safer in areas that they do send the right professional for the job.
Would you want a cop to do surgery on you? Then why do you expect them to correctly do other jobs that they were not trained to handle?

[retiredguy123]

Nurses have handled these situations for decades without fire power. Violent people cause violence and the police have escalated situations for years. Rarely in the ED did we need to call police and we had most of those situations present on a regular basis. Call when you need help.
Most social workers are women and the most active time for 911 calls is midnight. Sending a women to a private home late at night to handle a 911 situation is entirely different from handling a difficult situation in a hospital emergency room. Apples and oranges.

[dewilson58]

The response time will probably be significantly delayed. The party could be over by the time someone responds.


Let the experiment begin.

[nn0wheremann]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.
Hell’s Belles, most police work is social work. If the responding official has the the skills, training and temperament to handle these calls without further entangling the criminal justice system, so much the better. Gives more time for police to handle police business, like the pickpockets, muggers, and thieves that prey upon visitors. Gives the courts more time to handle criminal business, and it saves taxpayer dollars.

[sallybowron]

Actually, with the stories we are hearing about police lately, this may be a good idea. We can't expect our police officers to do it all. Since these are more mental and emotional crimes, a social worker would be good. When I treated people with cancer they had several of the aforementioned situations. We had them meet with social workers and many of those situations were solved. Can you see a policeman helping him criminal with ways to find housing, etc?

[Get real]

It's time for the American public to decide what we want from law enforcement. Warriors? Counselors? Guardians? Priests? Social workers? Magicians?
Do we want the cheapest cops possible? Or, do we want well-trained and well-screened cops who are equipped with every tool needed for every possible eventuality?
Or do we want the beat cop from grandaddy's hometown, with nothing but a smile, a wheelgun and one set of cuffs?
Really, we want it all. Admit it, we do – and we want it all without paying for any of it.
Every officer needs to be an empathetic, well-spoken, SEAL-trained ninja, with double majors in psychology and social work, who considers the job a calling, and has no bills to pay, no nerves to fray, and enforces the law completely objectively while also using discretion at all times, unless it's going to result in arresting – or not arresting – the wrong person at the wrong time, for the wrong thing, in the opinion of every member of the public.
If that person existed, he wouldn't work for you. So we've got to deal with what exists, and what exists are humans.
Humans are fallible, and their bodies are frail. Their brains play tricks on them when they're under stress, and then keep them from sleeping by replaying the stressor on an endless loop later, trying to find ways to "fix" whatever went wrong.
Humans come in varieties, not exactly like dog breeds, but close enough that the analogy works: If you need a bite dog, you don't start with a Golden Retriever. Possibly, you can teach the Golden to bite on command, if you're persistent enough, and mean enough, but in the process, you'll ruin everything that made him a Golden to begin with.
Now translate that back to people.
Warriors, soldiers and great war generals like Patton may live for the fight but they don't always play well with others after the battle. They can be harsh. They can use bad language in settings where you wish they were polite. They find humor in ugly, dark places that just frighten the rest of society. They're not always...nice.
If you want only a cuddly, soft, empathetic officer whose first response is always a soft answer and compassion, you can have that. She'll never embarrass her chief at Coffee with a Cop. He'll present well on camera every time and remind you of someone's grandfather. He'll be the perfect SRO until there's an active shooter at your kid's school.
Suddenly, society insists on the warrior.
They want the demon Malinois, 55 pounds of rawhide, spring steel and gator teeth, driving into the gunfire and doing anything it takes – anything – to keep the children safe.
And once the threat is gone, society wants the Malinois to morph back into the therapy dog. They want the warrior gone, the counselor returned, the off switch thrown.
That's not how it works.
And it's not fair.
I tell you now: the unicorn doesn't exist. You can't have it. What you can have is a human.
If you recruit well, conduct thorough background checks and train constantly, you can have a human with a kind heart and good ethics who is willing to fight hard, be uncomfortable and even get hurt for you.
You can have a human who tries. You can have someone who struggles, who sometimes fails, who gets better with time and experience and who has setbacks.
But you can't have perfection. In fact, you can break perfectly good humans by insisting they be something they can't be – things no one can be.
Decide now that as long as cops get recruited from the human race, they're going to be exactly human, with everything that means. The rest of society is also human, after all.
Maybe it's time we decide what we want from the rest of us, too.

[Stu from NYC]

Do you know the saying, “To a hammer, every problem looks like a nail”? That’s the problem with having cops handle these problems, we are told. I understand that cops are often not properly trained to act as counselors for these problems. Drunk? Cuff them! Mental health crisis? Use the Taser! Drug overdose? Take them to jail!

Well, of course, that’s not really the way it is. In most instances, they do a better job and make the right decisions and save lives. So is a social worker ready to handle any of these problems when people turn violent? Are they armed? Will they have police backup? Will someone with schizophrenia off his meds understand that this is a “safe” social worker? Would you be willing to handle these problems unarmed on the street or in someone’s house without backup? I wouldn’t!

Maybe what will happen is that one cop and one social worker will start riding together. Cop for handling violence and providing protection, social worker for people who need help solving, say, a homeless crisis or a reference to a drug counselor. Then the social worker would have protection, and the cop could avoid making things worse. But of course, then the cop would have no armed backup unless more cops were called in.

(My dad was the head chaplain for the Denver Police Department and carried a Lieutenant’s shield. He would ride a shift with any cop who wanted to talk, day or night. He didn’t want to carry a gun, so they compromised on his always carrying an Ultra-Stinger flashlight that could blind suspects for a few seconds and crack any skull if swung properly. Maybe social workers would carry these flashlights.)

Perhaps instead, cops should be required to have solid college coursework in social welfare and counseling and thorough training in de-escalation techniques. It would help a LOT if they would learn to speak with a calm, relaxing voice instead of shouting at people to get on the ground. I know a lot of the people cops deal with are low-lifes who treat them badly. That shouldn’t be. The lack of respect shown to police officers is at the root of the problem of “racist” cops. They learn that from how they are treated. I can’t blame them. They aren’t superheroes. But the cycle of abuse has to start somewhere, and it’s easier to train a thousand cops to calm down and de-escalate than train a hundred thousand angry people who have been taught from childhood to hate cops.

Interesting post. Problem with one cop one social worker going to domestic disturbance.

Now the officers will separate the two and talk separately. Very often the call will turn violent. How will the social worker deal with the violence?

[Doro22]

Most social workers are women and the most active time for 911 calls is midnight. Sending a women to a private home late at night to handle a 911 situation is entirely different from handling a difficult situation in a hospital emergency room. Apples and oranges.

Right on. I was thinking the same thing:BigApplause:

[karostay]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.

For moment I thought you were describing the Villages

[chvlt57]

It seems all the the things the social workers will be handling can go south pretty quick. I wonder how the social workers feel about it. I’m sure after the first call where one gets hurt or killed, they will rethink that ridiculous idea. To me, the whole idea of defunding and dismantling the police is ridiculous.

The negative results if these actions will never make it onto the main stream media!

[Holpat39]

It's time for the American public to decide what we want from law enforcement. Warriors? Counselors? Guardians? Priests? Social workers? Magicians?
Do we want the cheapest cops possible? Or, do we want well-trained and well-screened cops who are equipped with every tool needed for every possible eventuality?
Or do we want the beat cop from grandaddy's hometown, with nothing but a smile, a wheelgun and one set of cuffs?
Really, we want it all. Admit it, we do – and we want it all without paying for any of it.
Every officer needs to be an empathetic, well-spoken, SEAL-trained ninja, with double majors in psychology and social work, who considers the job a calling, and has no bills to pay, no nerves to fray, and enforces the law completely objectively while also using discretion at all times, unless it's going to result in arresting – or not arresting – the wrong person at the wrong time, for the wrong thing, in the opinion of every member of the public.
If that person existed, he wouldn't work for you. So we've got to deal with what exists, and what exists are humans.
Humans are fallible, and their bodies are frail. Their brains play tricks on them when they're under stress, and then keep them from sleeping by replaying the stressor on an endless loop later, trying to find ways to "fix" whatever went wrong.
Humans come in varieties, not exactly like dog breeds, but close enough that the analogy works: If you need a bite dog, you don't start with a Golden Retriever. Possibly, you can teach the Golden to bite on command, if you're persistent enough, and mean enough, but in the process, you'll ruin everything that made him a Golden to begin with.
Now translate that back to people.
Warriors, soldiers and great war generals like Patton may live for the fight but they don't always play well with others after the battle. They can be harsh. They can use bad language in settings where you wish they were polite. They find humor in ugly, dark places that just frighten the rest of society. They're not always...nice.
If you want only a cuddly, soft, empathetic officer whose first response is always a soft answer and compassion, you can have that. She'll never embarrass her chief at Coffee with a Cop. He'll present well on camera every time and remind you of someone's grandfather. He'll be the perfect SRO until there's an active shooter at your kid's school.
Suddenly, society insists on the warrior.
They want the demon Malinois, 55 pounds of rawhide, spring steel and gator teeth, driving into the gunfire and doing anything it takes – anything – to keep the children safe.
And once the threat is gone, society wants the Malinois to morph back into the therapy dog. They want the warrior gone, the counselor returned, the off switch thrown.
That's not how it works.
And it's not fair.
I tell you now: the unicorn doesn't exist. You can't have it. What you can have is a human.
If you recruit well, conduct thorough background checks and train constantly, you can have a human with a kind heart and good ethics who is willing to fight hard, be uncomfortable and even get hurt for you.
You can have a human who tries. You can have someone who struggles, who sometimes fails, who gets better with time and experience and who has setbacks.
But you can't have perfection. In fact, you can break perfectly good humans by insisting they be something they can't be – things no one can be.
Decide now that as long as cops get recruited from the human race, they're going to be exactly human, with everything that means. The rest of society is also human, after all.
Maybe it's time we decide what we want from the rest of us, too.
Get Real posted one of the most intelligent responses every posted on this site.

[sloanst]

OK liberals. You wanted this. Time for you to step up and take point.

[Barefoot]

It seems all the the things the social workers will be handling can go south pretty quick. I wonder how the social workers feel about it. I’m sure after the first call where one gets hurt or killed, they will rethink that ridiculous idea. To me, the whole idea of defunding and dismantling the police is ridiculous.:agree:

[retiredguy123]

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

I wouldn't consider these to be non-violent situations. And, some of them are actual crimes, like disorderly intoxication and panhandling. Crimes require someone who can enforce the law, not a social worker. And a drug overdose or mental health crisis requires an ambulance with medical personnel.

[Stu from NYC]

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

I wouldn't consider these to be non-violent situations. And, some of them are actual crimes, like disorderly intoxication and panhandling. Crimes require someone who can enforce the law, not a social worker. And a drug overdose or mental health crisis requires an ambulance with medical personnel.

Does anyone think that social workers will want to be doing this when they start getting hurt or killed?

[Dilligas]

You beat me to this.

How can politicians be so stupid and irresponsible

Their reason for the move is BLM, the most racist organization around.....all lives matter.

They are politicians.....in the job to get re-elected.

Very few are there for the good of the citizens. Political Correctness has taken over in Federal, State, and Local governments.

Most politicians have no other experience than political campaigns and community organizing.

[jimjamuser]

It seems all the the things the social workers will be handling can go south pretty quick. I wonder how the social workers feel about it. I’m sure after the first call where one gets hurt or killed, they will rethink that ridiculous idea. To me, the whole idea of defunding and dismantling the police is ridiculous.
There is some truth to the, "there may be problems" comments that many are writing. But, there are 2 sides and gray areas to EVERY debate. One factor is obvious-people initially react badly to change. That's why the conservative viewpoint is easier to win in a debate. Change is FRIGHTENING to many people. For example, the 1st Black president was always swimming upstream. I saw flags in conservative areas of Tn be taken down immediately after Obama won. Obama Care is now shredded as retribution against change. Change frightens many. The Villages has an older population. Older populations skew to the right of center politically. Just a fact. Then, older people prefer older ways of doing almost everything, myself included. Progress is slow in the US. That is probably good most of the time. Other issues, for example, like in healthcare it is NOT good. WE in the US have a healthcare system tied NOT to logic or good medical principles, but to a tradition from pre WW2 of tying care to people's jobs-and that from a time when people stayed in ONE job for a lifetime. That is NOT even close to the modern job situation where people change jobs nimbly. Other world countries recognize this, not, unfortunately, the US. The point of all of this is that ALL issues have 2 sides and gray areas. I will opinionate specifically police and social workers later....to be continued

[Dilligas]

The best answer for this is to point everyone to watching A&E on Friday and Saturday nights when they have "Live PD". They follow police from 10 or 15 different cities on their shifts and the calls they get. Very few end in gun fights, instead most are intoxication and drug related calls, or a car pulled over for a violation to find intoxication and/or drug problems from abuse to trafficing. Most of the officers are very professional and are trained to handle the social worker aspect. Once in a while, they have to subdue a suspect for a crime and are very cordial with them. They do get some that try to run or fight their way from being arrested, and many are drunk or on drugs when that happens. The energy the suspect develops is amazing agains two or more large trained officers. You will get a lot of respect for the difficult job the police have to do when you watch this show. On of the police departments they follow is Pasco County, on the north side of St. Petersburg.

[lkagele]

Does anyone think that social workers will want to be doing this when they start getting hurt or killed?

I'm sure in some instances, sending the wrong personnel will result in violence. Just the appearance of a police officer results in many of these people standing down. Those same people may react differently to an unarmed social worker.

"Stand down or I'll sentence you to 12 weeks of therapy" doesn't carry the same weight as, "Do you really want to be handcuffed and spend the night in jail?".

[jimjamuser]

Do you know the saying, “To a hammer, every problem looks like a nail”? That’s the problem with having cops handle these problems, we are told. I understand that cops are often not properly trained to act as counselors for these problems. Drunk? Cuff them! Mental health crisis? Use the Taser! Drug overdose? Take them to jail!

Well, of course, that’s not really the way it is. In most instances, they do a better job and make the right decisions and save lives. So is a social worker ready to handle any of these problems when people turn violent? Are they armed? Will they have police backup? Will someone with schizophrenia off his meds understand that this is a “safe” social worker? Would you be willing to handle these problems unarmed on the street or in someone’s house without backup? I wouldn’t!

Maybe what will happen is that one cop and one social worker will start riding together. Cop for handling violence and providing protection, social worker for people who need help solving, say, a homeless crisis or a reference to a drug counselor. Then the social worker would have protection, and the cop could avoid making things worse. But of course, then the cop would have no armed backup unless more cops were called in.

(My dad was the head chaplain for the Denver Police Department and carried a Lieutenant’s shield. He would ride a shift with any cop who wanted to talk, day or night. He didn’t want to carry a gun, so they compromised on his always carrying an Ultra-Stinger flashlight that could blind suspects for a few seconds and crack any skull if swung properly. Maybe social workers would carry these flashlights.)

Perhaps instead, cops should be required to have solid college coursework in social welfare and counseling and thorough training in de-escalation techniques. It would help a LOT if they would learn to speak with a calm, relaxing voice instead of shouting at people to get on the ground. I know a lot of the people cops deal with are low-lifes who treat them badly. That shouldn’t be. The lack of respect shown to police officers is at the root of the problem of “racist” cops. They learn that from how they are treated. I can’t blame them. They aren’t superheroes. But the cycle of abuse has to start somewhere, and it’s easier to train a thousand cops to calm down and de-escalate than train a hundred thousand angry people who have been taught from childhood to hate cops.
Great logic. Well written. Keep it up.

[Get real]

OK liberals. You wanted this. Time for you to step up and take point.

That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Thank you. :1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It might help to see what the concept of "defunding" the police actually entails, because the word seems to be tripping everyone up. Here is what communities with defunded police departments actually look like, and the organization partly responsible for the success of the concept:

Defund police, as BLM wants? What it means in cities that have started (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/22/defund-police-what-means-black-lives-matter/3218862001/)

and

'CAHOOTS': How Social Workers And Police Share Responsibilities In Eugene, Oregon : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/10/874339977/cahoots-how-social-workers-and-police-share-responsibilities-in-eugene-oregon)

and

the organization's website:

CAHOOTS | White Bird Clinic (https://whitebirdclinic.org/services/cahoots/)

[jimjamuser]

UK police officers do not carry guns on a regular basis...follow the mother country
I agree but the US is, unfortunately, awash in guns on the street. One of many problems and differences between the US and the UK, like National Health Care.

[jimjamuser]

Have you done a bit of research on what happened with Camden NJ defunded the entire police department? They had 350 officers in 2010 and the entire county now has 401 (2018) ... crime is nearly half and cost is way down as the government pensions were "modified". And replacing "some" officers with social workers is very different than replacing the entire force. Ha ha. Or were you not aware that 25 is only 4.5% of the 562 police officers? Did you over-react? Shame on you.
I agree and clever rebuttal, kudos.

[jimjamuser]

In regard to St Pete mayor's loonesy we are in a very safe location but armed and trained, should the perils of the mob of thugs come here.
Are we not men? Have we no empathy? Are we trigger happy? Is everything NEW a threat.

[jimjamuser]

It works out so much better in Sumter County no matter what everyone gets jailed. For everyday you spend in jail a person is assessed $50 on top of fine. Then may get some type of mental health or substance abuse help usually these people have minimum paying job with no health insurance ultimately no counseling’s its a revolving door. The only help for offenders I have seen in our area is House of Hope prayer counseling.
That is sad! Are we too old for empathy? What would Jesus think?

[retiredguy123]

I agree but the US is, unfortunately, awash in guns on the street. One of many problems and differences between the US and the UK, like National Health Care.
Not only are there guns on the street, but I think there are even more guns in people's homes. And, that is where the unarmed social workers will need to go to respond to many of the 911 calls.

[jimjamuser]

Nurses have handled these situations for decades without fire power. Violent people cause violence and the police have escalated situations for years. Rarely in the ED did we need to call police and we had most of those situations present on a regular basis. Call when you need help.
Thanks for your comment and thanks for your life-giving service!

[jimjamuser]

Hell’s Belles, most police work is social work. If the responding official has the the skills, training and temperament to handle these calls without further entangling the criminal justice system, so much the better. Gives more time for police to handle police business, like the pickpockets, muggers, and thieves that prey upon visitors. Gives the courts more time to handle criminal business, and it saves taxpayer dollars.
That was a "somewhere man" good opinion!

[jimjamuser]

It's time for the American public to decide what we want from law enforcement. Warriors? Counselors? Guardians? Priests? Social workers? Magicians?
Do we want the cheapest cops possible? Or, do we want well-trained and well-screened cops who are equipped with every tool needed for every possible eventuality?
Or do we want the beat cop from grandaddy's hometown, with nothing but a smile, a wheelgun and one set of cuffs?
Really, we want it all. Admit it, we do – and we want it all without paying for any of it.
Every officer needs to be an empathetic, well-spoken, SEAL-trained ninja, with double majors in psychology and social work, who considers the job a calling, and has no bills to pay, no nerves to fray, and enforces the law completely objectively while also using discretion at all times, unless it's going to result in arresting – or not arresting – the wrong person at the wrong time, for the wrong thing, in the opinion of every member of the public.
If that person existed, he wouldn't work for you. So we've got to deal with what exists, and what exists are humans.
Humans are fallible, and their bodies are frail. Their brains play tricks on them when they're under stress, and then keep them from sleeping by replaying the stressor on an endless loop later, trying to find ways to "fix" whatever went wrong.
Humans come in varieties, not exactly like dog breeds, but close enough that the analogy works: If you need a bite dog, you don't start with a Golden Retriever. Possibly, you can teach the Golden to bite on command, if you're persistent enough, and mean enough, but in the process, you'll ruin everything that made him a Golden to begin with.
Now translate that back to people.
Warriors, soldiers and great war generals like Patton may live for the fight but they don't always play well with others after the battle. They can be harsh. They can use bad language in settings where you wish they were polite. They find humor in ugly, dark places that just frighten the rest of society. They're not always...nice.
If you want only a cuddly, soft, empathetic officer whose first response is always a soft answer and compassion, you can have that. She'll never embarrass her chief at Coffee with a Cop. He'll present well on camera every time and remind you of someone's grandfather. He'll be the perfect SRO until there's an active shooter at your kid's school.
Suddenly, society insists on the warrior.
They want the demon Malinois, 55 pounds of rawhide, spring steel and gator teeth, driving into the gunfire and doing anything it takes – anything – to keep the children safe.
And once the threat is gone, society wants the Malinois to morph back into the therapy dog. They want the warrior gone, the counselor returned, the off switch thrown.
That's not how it works.
And it's not fair.
I tell you now: the unicorn doesn't exist. You can't have it. What you can have is a human.
If you recruit well, conduct thorough background checks and train constantly, you can have a human with a kind heart and good ethics who is willing to fight hard, be uncomfortable and even get hurt for you.
You can have a human who tries. You can have someone who struggles, who sometimes fails, who gets better with time and experience and who has setbacks.
But you can't have perfection. In fact, you can break perfectly good humans by insisting they be something they can't be – things no one can be.
Decide now that as long as cops get recruited from the human race, they're going to be exactly human, with everything that means. The rest of society is also human, after all.
Maybe it's time we decide what we want from the rest of us, too.
Very thoughtful and thought-provoking, kudos. I will add one more to the fray--police and criminals are recruited from the SAME social class. As an aside- maybe we should put more $ into developing Robo-Cops?

[NoMoSno]

The best answer for this is to point everyone to watching A&E on Friday and Saturday nights when they have "Live PD". They follow police from 10 or 15 different cities on their shifts and the calls they get. Very few end in gun fights, instead most are intoxication and drug related calls, or a car pulled over for a violation to find intoxication and/or drug problems from abuse to trafficing. Most of the officers are very professional and are trained to handle the social worker aspect. Once in a while, they have to subdue a suspect for a crime and are very cordial with them. They do get some that try to run or fight their way from being arrested, and many are drunk or on drugs when that happens. The energy the suspect develops is amazing agains two or more large trained officers. You will get a lot of respect for the difficult job the police have to do when you watch this show. On of the police departments they follow is Pasco County, on the north side of St. Petersburg.
Unfortunately, Live PD was permanently taken off the air by A&E.
Not politically correct?

[jimjamuser]

It might help to see what the concept of "defunding" the police actually entails, because the word seems to be tripping everyone up. Here is what communities with defunded police departments actually look like, and the organization partly responsible for the success of the concept:

Defund police, as BLM wants? What it means in cities that have started (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/22/defund-police-what-means-black-lives-matter/3218862001/)

and

'CAHOOTS': How Social Workers And Police Share Responsibilities In Eugene, Oregon : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/10/874339977/cahoots-how-social-workers-and-police-share-responsibilities-in-eugene-oregon)

and

the organization's website:

CAHOOTS | White Bird Clinic (https://whitebirdclinic.org/services/cahoots/)
Thanks for that link.....Cahoots was VERY good.

[Stu from NYC]

Unfortunately, Live PD was permanently taken off the air by A&E.
Not politically correct?

Sad that the pandering will not allow the good that the police do to be shown.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Thanks for that link.....Cahoots was VERY good.

They still are. But they can't work in a vacuum. They work WITH the police, not against them, and not instead of them. They are an adjunct. The Police Departments are supposed to be part of civil and social services of any municipality. They are -not- supposed to be a military or quasi-military branch of the municipalities. But because of violent crime, they have less opportunity to appropriately train, and not enough resources to appropriately respond, to "all things." They CANNOT and should not be expected to be all things to all people.

These days, you don't call the fire department to get a cat off a roof or tree. You call the animal rescue organization. The fire department isn't being paid to rescue cats from trees and rooftops. Nor should they be. They need to focus their energy on fires and other serious life-threatening emergencies.

The same should be said for the police. You don't call the cops when your neighbor is having a heart attack, you call an ambulance. Why would you call the cops when the same neighbor is having a nervous breakdown and throwing his empty beer bottles at the walls of his own garage? Better to call a social worker. Or even better - call 911, and have 911 dispatch the social worker with police backup "just in case" the guy starts aiming those bottles at the social worker.

That is risk reduction, and efficient job specialization. A person experiencing emotional trauma is not likely to respond positively to a uniformed cop with his gun out banging on the front door. But they might respond positively to someone dressed neatly in plain clothes, unarmed, who offers an ear on the front porch with a bottle of spring water and a few fresh orange segments (for example).

The cop can be in sight, up the road. Or he could be standing on the sidewalk at the end of the driveway. But it's the social worker who would make the first contact.

This can reduce (and has proven effective in reducing) the potential for violence against - or by - police officers in stressful situations.

[petiteone]

It's a waste of time to have police show up for mental health issues. The police should be freed up to do their job, not the job of trained mental health professionals. Too many times the police have been called upon to handle jobs they're not trained for and many times it goes wrong for the victim. Remember the deaf autistic adult who couldn't understand police commands and they ended up killing him? Police have resorted to their guns when other means would have saved lives of the victim.

[Saluce]

The best answer for this is to point everyone to watching A&E on Friday and Saturday nights when they have "Live PD". They follow police from 10 or 15 different cities on their shifts and the calls they get. Very few end in gun fights, instead most are intoxication and drug related calls, or a car pulled over for a violation to find intoxication and/or drug problems from abuse to trafficing. Most of the officers are very professional and are trained to handle the social worker aspect. Once in a while, they have to subdue a suspect for a crime and are very cordial with them. They do get some that try to run or fight their way from being arrested, and many are drunk or on drugs when that happens. The energy the suspect develops is amazing agains two or more large trained officers. You will get a lot of respect for the difficult job the police have to do when you watch this show. On of the police departments they follow is Pasco County, on the north side of St. Petersburg.

Be careful, you sound like your speaking with some sense.

[retiredguy123]

It's a waste of time to have police show up for mental health issues. The police should be freed up to do their job, not the job of trained mental health professionals. Too many times the police have been called upon to handle jobs they're not trained for and many times it goes wrong for the victim. Remember the deaf autistic adult who couldn't understand police commands and they ended up killing him? Police have resorted to their guns when other means would have saved lives of the victim.
How is a 911 operator supposed to diagnose a mental health issue on the phone, and send a mental health professional to handle the situation? I think, in most cases, the police should be the first to respond.

[Saluce]

How is a 911 operator supposed to diagnose a mental health issue on the phone, and send a mental health professional to handle the situation? I think, in most cases, the police should be the first to respond.

As a former 911 Dispatcher, I’m asking the same question!! Not all 911 callers are truthful when giving information and more than not officers arrive on a calls of these types and many times there is way more going on than what the caller advised the dispatcher. Also these “Social Worker” type calls that are being earmarked for social workers can go downhill in seconds and that has nothing to do with an officer!! Guns are not the only weapons used when approached by an officer, nor will they be when a social worker arrives.
I see 911 Dispatchers as the next victim the politicians will be blaming, because they aren’t handling the calls right!!!!

Maybe our politicians should focus on the need to fund the mental health issues our country has and the lack of funding and hospitals needed for the treating the mentally ill and drug abuser, which make up most of the calls officers go on.

[eremite06]

Many times in my 30 yr. career, the dispatched problem was not the actual scenario encountered. It's like "a box of chocolates."

[Jimmy Lee]

Get Real your 10:29am post on 7/14/20 about us somehow expecting beyond-human performance from our police was brilliant. The only thing I could add is that we also require cops who can make a decision in 4/10 of a second in a dark alley that will be identical to the decision made by a group of attorneys who've got hours to pour over bodycam footage of the event while sitting in comfortable chairs in complete safety.

[TomPerrett]

Maybe it’s time for a change. Maybe it’s time the police relived of the burden Of being social workers.

[Barefoot]

... snipped .... our politicians should focus on the need to fund mental health issues.:thumbup:

[Stu from NYC]

Get Real your 10:29am post on 7/14/20 about us somehow expecting beyond-human performance from our police was brilliant. The only thing I could add is that we also require cops who can make a decision in 4/10 of a second in a dark alley that will be identical to the decision made by a group of attorneys who've got hours to pour over bodycam footage of the event while sitting in comfortable chairs in complete safety.

Amazing how many people do not understand this.

[Dust Bunny]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.


tHAT WILL ALL GO DOWN THE TUBEWHEN A SOCIAL WORKERGET THEIR ASS KICKED OR WORSE SHOT! POLITICIANS ARE CATERING TO THE WHERE EVER THEY CSAN FIND VOTES.

[Stu from NYC]

tHAT WILL ALL GO DOWN THE TUBEWHEN A SOCIAL WORKERGET THEIR ASS KICKED OR WORSE SHOT! POLITICIANS ARE CATERING TO THE WHERE EVER THEY CSAN FIND VOTES.

They seem to think they will gain more votes than they lose by their recent actions.

Hoping they learn a very difficult lesson and have lots of time to ponder when they are voted out of office.

[Get real]

Very thoughtful and thought-provoking, kudos. I will add one more to the fray--police and criminals are recruited from the SAME social class. As an aside- maybe we should put more $ into developing Robo-Cops?

You are exactly correct. Thank you.

[talleyjm]

UK folk get killed with Knives or acid❗️

[golfing eagles]

.....

These days, you don't call the fire department to get a cat off a roof or tree. You call the animal rescue organization. The fire department isn't being paid to rescue cats from trees and rooftops. Nor should they be. They need to focus their energy on fires and other serious life-threatening emergencies.....

.

Not a good analogy. A cat in a tree is a cat in a tree. Regardless of whether animal rescue of the fire department gets it down, the rescuer is not going to get shot by the cat. A "disorderly juvenile" or a "mental health crisis" can, and often does, go south in a matter of seconds. Maybe the police do not have enough training to deal with mental health, but certainly a social worker doesn't have the training to deal with a 300 lb. "disorderly juvenile", who may be armed.

[Bay Kid]

This could be why gun sales have set new sales records.

[Stu from NYC]

Not a good analogy. A cat in a tree is a cat in a tree. Regardless of whether animal rescue of the fire department gets it down, the rescuer is not going to get shot by the cat. A "disorderly juvenile" or a "mental health crisis" can, and often does, go south in a matter of seconds. Maybe the police do not have enough training to deal with mental health, but certainly a social worker doesn't have the training to deal with a 300 lb. "disorderly juvenile", who may be armed.

So the defunding crowd will eventually say send social worker with a couple of cops outside just in case.

Of course before the social worker gets help she or he might wake up dead.

[Byte1]

they'll be advertising for social workers shortly....all the 'cupcakes' from the liberal states that have absolutely no clue other than classroom BS will apply ...

that will not be fun to watch

Actually, that will make great YouTube material. Too bad though. People deserve better and more responsible decision makers, that are not so scared of losing their jobs that they will coddle some loud mouthed cretins that know nothing about law enforcement.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So the defunding crowd will eventually say send social worker with a couple of cops outside just in case.

Of course before the social worker gets help she or he might wake up dead.

Not eventually. I actually posted that. Also, I posted links to the organization Cahoots and a couple of write-ups about the program's success in Eugene Oregon, to show that it's not doom and gloom as you suggest it "would" be - since Eugene (and other communities who have already done this) prove exactly the opposite.

But hey knock yourself out stressing over doom and gloom. The Villages doesn't even HAVE a big crime problem. But we DO have a lot of stressed seniors, seniors with physical disabilities and diminished mental capacity, seniors who get drunk and drive golf carts - and for some reason, a whole lot of meth heads. Do these people all need cops in uniform with their guns out at their door? Nah. Maybe some of the meth heads. But they could ALL use some help, and empathy. A uniformed cop with his gun unholstered doesn't really scream "I'm here to help."

[Byte1]

Other than some podunk country sheriff's office, the officers DO have training to handle social services type calls. Why do you think that the majority of domestic calls are handled withOUT arrests? Give the officers some credit. They have been giving diversity training at the academies at least since the late '70s. The officers are also given emergency medical aid training. AND many police departments DO require college learning before hiring. It amazes me how many people associate trained law enforcement with simple rent a cops. States, counties and cities are liable for their actions and have to pay out millions for mistakes made by law enforcement. Snap decisions are made every day/night when dealing with the spontaneity and unpredictable actions of the intoxicated, mentally deficient, or just plain folks dealing with anger issues. Police officers are trained to handle this stuff EVERY day, but dealing with hundreds of issues one can make a mistake in how they respond to a certain element. The family may know that the subject has a medical or mental problem, but the officer is arriving on the scene with little to no prior information.
Give the officers the credit they are due. And just because an officer has a use of force report in his record, does not mean that it was not warranted or necessary. If a police officer never gets a complaint, then he/she is probably not doing his job.

Do you know the saying, “To a hammer, every problem looks like a nail”? That’s the problem with having cops handle these problems, we are told. I understand that cops are often not properly trained to act as counselors for these problems. Drunk? Cuff them! Mental health crisis? Use the Taser! Drug overdose? Take them to jail!

Well, of course, that’s not really the way it is. In most instances, they do a better job and make the right decisions and save lives. So is a social worker ready to handle any of these problems when people turn violent? Are they armed? Will they have police backup? Will someone with schizophrenia off his meds understand that this is a “safe” social worker? Would you be willing to handle these problems unarmed on the street or in someone’s house without backup? I wouldn’t!

Maybe what will happen is that one cop and one social worker will start riding together. Cop for handling violence and providing protection, social worker for people who need help solving, say, a homeless crisis or a reference to a drug counselor. Then the social worker would have protection, and the cop could avoid making things worse. But of course, then the cop would have no armed backup unless more cops were called in.

(My dad was the head chaplain for the Denver Police Department and carried a Lieutenant’s shield. He would ride a shift with any cop who wanted to talk, day or night. He didn’t want to carry a gun, so they compromised on his always carrying an Ultra-Stinger flashlight that could blind suspects for a few seconds and crack any skull if swung properly. Maybe social workers would carry these flashlights.)

Perhaps instead, cops should be required to have solid college coursework in social welfare and counseling and thorough training in de-escalation techniques. It would help a LOT if they would learn to speak with a calm, relaxing voice instead of shouting at people to get on the ground. I know a lot of the people cops deal with are low-lifes who treat them badly. That shouldn’t be. The lack of respect shown to police officers is at the root of the problem of “racist” cops. They learn that from how they are treated. I can’t blame them. They aren’t superheroes. But the cycle of abuse has to start somewhere, and it’s easier to train a thousand cops to calm down and de-escalate than train a hundred thousand angry people who have been taught from childhood to hate cops.

[Byte1]

UK police officers do not carry guns on a regular basis...follow the mother country

Yes, and how has that worked out? I think that if you check you will find out that they are now carrying concealed, where they weren't carrying before. We are a different country and have different problems. Don't compare us to that tiny island. Remember, our founders left that country for a reason, too.

[Byte1]

I disagree !!! Totally disagree and if this happens it will take a bit but in the long run our country will be safer in areas that they do send the right professional for the job.
Would you want a cop to do surgery on you? Then why do you expect them to correctly do other jobs that they were not trained to handle?

They ARE trained to do the job. Have you never heard of a COP delivering a baby? Have you never heard of a COP giving CPR and bringing someone back from dead? You do not know about all the domestics that they deal with every day/night. Why? Because those domestics were taken care of without a violent incident. COPs don't just fight. Most do not wish to fight, period. Most want to go home to their families without injury or injuring anyone else. It is not the macho image that many of the uninformed/ignorant citizens imagine them to be.
One scumbag getting killed may not be a great thing IF there was a mistake made. But, it would be worse if a decent person got killed, right? Don't judge a million cops by the actions of less than a half percent of questionable incidents.

I will guarantee one thing that will happen with social workers responding to domestics. A person that is angry will hesitate striking a COP more than he will hesitate striking a social worker. A person can have one bad day in a year, get drunk and lose control and become unruly. He can be Joe Citizen the other 364 days a year, but just have one day and totally lose control. That same person might even kill someone because he was not handled properly. I wonder what will happen the first time such an incident happens and the family sues because they called the police and got a social worker, and a family member or social worker was killed due to one bad day.

[Byte1]

Are we not men? Have we no empathy? Are we trigger happy? Is everything NEW a threat.

Yes, we are men (and women) that carry weapons and protect our families and neighbors, when seconds matter and the police are minutes away. "Empathy?" With whom? A scumbag criminal? Sorry, but my empathy for criminal behavior ran out decades ago. Trigger happy? Nope, not happy about it at all, but happy if the scumbag is prone and my family is still breathing. Everything a NEW threat? Lately, there have been many new threats. Better to be prepared and not need it than to be unprepared and sorry. Everyone deals with exigent circumstances differently. I am only sorry when I am not prepared for an emergency. It is my job to protect my family. It's not being a man, it's being an adult that accepts responsibility, especially when the gov WON'T.

Stock up on ammo, because one small piece of metal might be the difference as to whether or not you sleep alone tonight.

[coffeebean]

So the defunding crowd will eventually say send social worker with a couple of cops outside just in case.

Of course before the social worker gets help she or he might wake up dead.

So......having a couple of cops outside just in case the social worker needs help? With defunding the police, are those cops not going to earn full pay? Maybe they deserve only half pay because they are just standing by in case they are needed to deal with an out of control suspect? This is getting ridiculous. If anything, add a social worker to the existing police presence......don't downsize the police presence.

[Stu from NYC]

So......having a couple of cops outside just in case the social worker needs help? With defunding the police, are those cops not going to earn full pay? Maybe they deserve only half pay because they are just standing by in case they are needed to deal with an out of control suspect? This is getting ridiculous. If anything, add a social worker to the existing police presence......don't downsize the police presence.

There is a time and a place for everything just dont send out a social worker for criminal activity

[coffeebean]

There is a time and a place for everything just dont send out a social worker for criminal activity

Agree. But.....do not downsize police presence. My point was to supplement police presence with a social worker when warranted.

[Byte1]

So......having a couple of cops outside just in case the social worker needs help? With defunding the police, are those cops not going to earn full pay? Maybe they deserve only half pay because they are just standing by in case they are needed to deal with an out of control suspect? This is getting ridiculous. If anything, add a social worker to the existing police presence......don't downsize the police presence.

Agree. It is amazing how little many on here know about law enforcement. I guess they believe it's all Hollywood Dirty Harry. Not so in real life.
By the way folks, Social Services works with law enforcement every day. It is Social Services that calls the police to assist them with removing battered women, neglected children and assist them with mental cases. They use the police professionals that are trained in physical confrontation to handle their protection when they go to these homes. It is not the police that need to be removed.

Taking all the arguments into consideration, how many on here think that police Depts. want to spend three times the wage for a qualified Social Worker that has a Masters Degree? Do you think that an educated person that specializes in Social Work and has an advanced degree wants to do "police" work? Besides, if it was up to Social Workers, how many career criminals would be in prison?

Since most on here have no experience in law enforcement, you cannot be expected to understand a police officer's job. Most of it really does consist of social work with the public. Do you think that a police officer is nothing more than a tag team of mix martial arts warriors? And do you really think that a police officer "pulls" his gun whenever he is confronting a subject? Of course not, or he would not be able to utilize his hand to defend himself. An officer knows that he cannot just shoot someone that is "bad" or breaking the law. Most pistols remain in the holster until such time as the officer feels either he or someone else's life is in danger.

Some folks on here really should do a ride along with a police officer on a busy weekend where they can see what he/she deals with on a routine basis.

You might get an unarmed civilian to write parking tickets but you better have an armed officer making a traffic stop. And you may not know the stats on how many officers are assaulted or killed on domestic calls, but I bet Social Workers know them.

You want better police work? Talk to the judges about putting the perps away instead of letting them off with a plea deal and community service when they were originally charged with felonies.

[Schuvwj]

You beat me to this.

How can politicians be so stupid and irresponsible

Because they were elected by uniformed stupid and irresponsible people!

[Gulfcoast]

Agree. But.....do not downsize police presence. My point was to supplement police presence with a social worker when warranted.

I don't think that police officers should have the liability of keeping an unarmed social worker coworker safe.

It seems as though the police officers are being blamed for escalating a situation into violence when in reality the police officers are usually responding to a situation after it has already escalated. The police do try to calm the unruly subjects down but if the safety of bystanders and the officers, themselves is at risk, the officers have to respond proportionately to the threat.

[Stu from NYC]

Agree. It is amazing how little many on here know about law enforcement. I guess they believe it's all Hollywood Dirty Harry. Not so in real life.
By the way folks, Social Services works with law enforcement every day. It is Social Services that calls the police to assist them with removing battered women, neglected children and assist them with mental cases. They use the police professionals that are trained in physical confrontation to handle their protection when they go to these homes. It is not the police that need to be removed.

Taking all the arguments into consideration, how many on here think that police Depts. want to spend three times the wage for a qualified Social Worker that has a Masters Degree? Do you think that an educated person that specializes in Social Work and has an advanced degree wants to do "police" work? Besides, if it was up to Social Workers, how many career criminals would be in prison?

Since most on here have no experience in law enforcement, you cannot be expected to understand a police officer's job. Most of it really does consist of social work with the public. Do you think that a police officer is nothing more than a tag team of mix martial arts warriors? And do you really think that a police officer "pulls" his gun whenever he is confronting a subject? Of course not, or he would not be able to utilize his hand to defend himself. An officer knows that he cannot just shoot someone that is "bad" or breaking the law. Most pistols remain in the holster until such time as the officer feels either he or someone else's life is in danger.

Some folks on here really should do a ride along with a police officer on a busy weekend where they can see what he/she deals with on a routine basis.

You might get an unarmed civilian to write parking tickets but you better have an armed officer making a traffic stop. And you may not know the stats on how many officers are assaulted or killed on domestic calls, but I bet Social Workers know them.

You want better police work? Talk to the judges about putting the perps away instead of letting them off with a plea deal and community service when they were originally charged with felonies.

Thanks for the post. A few years ago I did several ride alongs and developed new respect for our police. I agree most people do have no clue.

[TexaninVA]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.

Suicidal stupidity .... I'm amazed at the utter fecklessness of the people who run some of these cities ... ??????????? :MOJE_whot:


...

[beccaboo**]

As a licensed independent social worker for over 40 years, I find it ludicrous. I own a private practice and I would not engage any of my practitioners in this activity. Having background in a psychiatric setting reinforces to me the inappropriateness of this role for mental health counselors.

[Bay Kid]

It will cost taxpayers more for social workers. After the social worker session is over then the police will be called to protect the social workers and fix the problem.

[Stu from NYC]

It will cost taxpayers more for social workers. After the social worker session is over then the police will be called to protect the social workers and fix the problem.

I do not understand why any living breathing person would think this is a good idea.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I do not understand why any living breathing person would think this is a good idea.

Because it has actually been proven to be effective in the communities that have been doing it.

This entire thread is just so weird to me. The rage against the idea is just as insane to me as if people protested the suggestion that you inhale as often as you exhale. "I refuse to inhale - I have the right to not inhale! It will be inconvenient! Exhaling is the only way to fight bacteria! I refuse to inhale air that might possibly have germs in it! Who and what army are going to force me to inhale? I will fight inhaling til my last breath! ZERO money should be provided to any hospital with ventilators that force patients to inhale - they should ONLY be allowed to force them to exhale!"

That's what I see when I read the tirades against spreading some of the police funding to social service work in prevention methods.

[coffeebean]

Because it has actually been proven to be effective in the communities that have been doing it.
I would much rather have the police supplemented with social workers. I do not want to see the police defunded. That is just a very bad idea, IMHO. People want to feel safer in their communities, especially large inner cities.

[ffresh]

It might help to see what the concept of "defunding" the police actually entails, because the word seems to be tripping everyone up. Here is what communities with defunded police departments actually look like, and the organization partly responsible for the success of the concept:

Defund police, as BLM wants? What it means in cities that have started (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/22/defund-police-what-means-black-lives-matter/3218862001/)

and

'CAHOOTS': How Social Workers And Police Share Responsibilities In Eugene, Oregon : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/10/874339977/cahoots-how-social-workers-and-police-share-responsibilities-in-eugene-oregon)

and

the organization's website:

CAHOOTS | White Bird Clinic (https://whitebirdclinic.org/services/cahoots/)

Personally, I agree with MANY aspects of defunding the police. In recent years, because of federal intervention - it's almost always the government creating the problem and then proposing myriad solutions, ALWAYS consisting of throwing MASSIVE amounts of money at the problem. And when that fails, as it almost always does, allocating even MORE MASSIVE amounts of money (definition of insanity?).

I never subscribed to the efficacy nor immorality of busting down doors, with No-Knock warrants in the wee hours, tossing flash grenades with sometimes horrendous results, police dressed as Storm Troopers, exiting vehicles last seen on the sands of Iraq or Afghanistan, AD NAUSEUM! I think we, as a nation, have to return to saner times when there was mutual respect between the police and the citizens. You mention two organizations in your post that proclaim systemic racism is "a public health crisis". This is utter nonsense promulgated by two organizations with unquestionable Marxist ideology: "We are appalled by the lynching of George Floyd, aware that he was not the first nor the last to die a preventable death due to the color of his skin. Police brutality is not an isolated issue. It is a symptom of the broader toxic culture of white supremacy that was woven into the fiber of this nation as we know it during its inception.".

"We resist any statement claiming that gender is a biological or immutable condition determined by genitalia. Both categories of sex and gender are infinitely diverse and complex in their expressions and cannot be limited to a binary system. To dictate how an individual personally identifies stands in direct conflict with our humanistic values of self-determination, freedom of expression, and valuing of diversity."

These types of nonsensical ramblings come only from tormented minds or Marxist revolutionaries (or am I being redundant?). IMHO, people falling for this type of dogma are "imported" revolutionaries or have been indoctrinated by their Marxist professors at our "esteemed" bastions of "higher learning" :1rotfl::1rotfl: Stalin, you may recall, referred to these folks as "useful idiots"

Fred :spoken:

[Aloha1]

“Crazy as hell” is what a St. Petersburg, Florida resident called the mayor’s plan to replace 25 police with 25 social workers. Beginning October 1 unarmed social workers will be responding to the following “non violent” 911 calls instead of the police.

Disorderly intoxication
Intoxication
Mental health crisis
Drug overdose
Disorderly juvenile
Homeless complaint
Panhandling
Neighborhood dispute

We sometimes visited attractions in the St Pete area. No more.
Better get the body bags ready.

[Aloha1]

I disagree !!! Totally disagree and if this happens it will take a bit but in the long run our country will be safer in areas that they do send the right professional for the job.
Would you want a cop to do surgery on you? Then why do you expect them to correctly do other jobs that they were not trained to handle?

What, you think police are only trained to hand out speeding tickets?? SMH

[Aloha1]

It's a waste of time to have police show up for mental health issues. The police should be freed up to do their job, not the job of trained mental health professionals. Too many times the police have been called upon to handle jobs they're not trained for and many times it goes wrong for the victim. Remember the deaf autistic adult who couldn't understand police commands and they ended up killing him? Police have resorted to their guns when other means would have saved lives of the victim.

Remember the guy who walked into a convenience store in Michigan this week and stabbed a 77 year old man because he was asked to put on a mask. When the police responded he attacked with 2 knifes and a screwdriver? Remember that he was mentally ill? So, you would have sent an unarmed recent sociology grad instead??

[Stu from NYC]

Remember the guy who walked into a convenience store in Michigan this week and stabbed a 77 year old man because he was asked to put on a mask. When the police responded he attacked with 2 knifes and a screwdriver? Remember that he was mentally ill? So, you would have sent an unarmed recent sociology grad instead??

You nailed it.

[Aloha1]

To all:
I apologize for looking like a drive by poster on this thread. Had a busy couple of days and only found time now to click through this thread.

This country was founded on the principle of Rule Of Law. If we sneak away from that founding precept and remove those who are charged with upholding that principle, I fear for where this country may head. There is still time but time is fleeting.

Do you want a Nation of proud people united in their belief that the United States is still the greatest place to live on this planet for your/our children and grandchildren or do you not care? It is a fact that the forces of Marxism are able to mobilize hundreds to march at a whim because they have no other commitments. Perhaps we, the retired generation, can perform one last great service to our country by starting our own marching. Just a thought. Yours?