How do you see the pandemic playing out from where it is today?

[billethkid]

There have been other global health disruptions in history and civilization has survived and prospered.

That is reading backward....which should portray hope.

Looking forward during our time the outlook is confused by the extreme divided politics of the day. Compounded by instant global communications that allow significant emphasis on what the future holds....which are based on specific agendas...not all of which have the welfare of the masses in mind.

So based on your background, beliefs, influences, hopes.....how do you see the pandemic evolving and do you believe we will get back to life as most know/knew before the pandemic, political and special interest furor?

Not looking for blame or finger pointing or agenda promoting or who shoulda/coulda did or did not catharsis....just down to earth how do you see the future playing out as it affects and may affect your life.

I personally do not see any break with the current trends in infection until there is a vaccine/cure(?). Or there is a new infection/death rate that is accepted as it is what it is like the flu, cancer, auto deaths, smoking deaths, etc.
As the saying goes....this too shall pass.

I personally think the bigger issue facing our lives and how it affects all of our futures, is the accelerating deterioration of law and order to a new level of acceptable violence and selective enforcement of laws.

It seems we are being driven on a win/lose course with significantly dangerous results.

[GoodLife]

I personally do not see any break with the current trends in infection until there is a vaccine/cure.

Current trends where? There are many places in the world where deaths and new cases are dropping to almost zero with no new surge like Florida. Look at this chart showing deaths per million of New York State and Sweden. New York locked down on March 17, recommended facemasks in early April. Sweden did neither of these. But both places show a rapid rise to a peak and then the numbers start dropping, heading towards zero. Neither Sweden or New York State is showing a huge surge in new cases like Florida. Only conclusion one can make is NY and Sweden have reached a herd immunity threshold, while Florida has not.

85328

Many scientists like Michael Levitt, Nobel Prize winner at Stanford, have studied the data from all over the world and conclude that HIT is less than 30%. This does not mean 30% of population must be confirmed positive by tests. It's estimated that there are 10 times as many untested asymptomatic cases as there are confirmed positives.

Now many studies are showing an even greater number of people who have T cell immunity from previous exposure to other coronaviruses like common cold. Here is a new study from Oxford.

News report:

Coronavirus: Levels of herd immunity in UK may already be high enough to prevent second wave, study suggests | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-second-wave-oxford-study-boris-johnson-a9623791.html)

Actual study:

The impact of host resistance on cumulative mortality and the threshold of herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2 | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1.full.pdf

Based on these studies, I predict Florida's surge of new cases will start to fall by the end of this month. It's too bad that the percent positive numbers on Florida's website are inaccurate due to the reporting all positives problem, as that could serve as a good indicator. I could be wrong, but if that actually happens, I will remind you that I predicted this at the beginning of July. :icon_wink:

[billethkid]

///

[Aloha1]

I'm still hearing on the media that the rise in positive cases is due to Memorial Day weekend. ??? That's almost 2 months ago. the experts say the average time from infection to symptoms is 2-5 days, not 2 months. This makes no sense. It call into question the veracity of the reporting. Is this test only identifying Covid positives or is it also picking up other corona virus indicators?

To the point of the OP, I believe we will not only have vaccines by the fall but therapeutics as well and I agree, this too shall pass.

I am also concerned about the ignorance of the public who think eliminating police is a "good" idea. I am reminded of the old adage, "An ignorant public is an easily controlled public."

[kcrazorbackfan]

There have been other global health disruptions in history and civilization has survived and prospered.

That is reading backward....which should portray hope.

Looking forward during our time the outlook is confused by the extreme divided politics of the day. Compounded by instant global communications that allow significant emphasis on what the future holds....which are based on specific agendas...not all of which have the welfare of the masses in mind.

So based on your background, beliefs, influences, hopes.....how do you see the pandemic evolving and do you believe we will get back to life as most know/knew before the pandemic, political and special interest furor?

Not looking for blame or finger pointing or agenda promoting or who shoulda/coulda did or did not catharsis....just down to earth how do you see the future playing out as it affects and may affect your life.

I personally do not see any break with the current trends in infection until there is a vaccine/cure(?). Or there is a new infection/death rate that is accepted as it is what it is like the flu, cancer, auto deaths, smoking deaths, etc.
As the saying goes....this too shall pass.

I personally think the bigger issue facing our lives and how it affects all of our futures, is the accelerating deterioration of law and order to a new level of acceptable violence and selective enforcement of laws.

It seems we are being driven on a win/lose course with significantly dangerous results.

With a significant amount of people thinking this is all a fabrication from the media, it doesn’t look like it’s going to play out anytime soon.

Did everything open up too quickly? Absolutely!

Should schools not be allowed to start the new school year? Absolutely not!

[Aloha1]

With a significant amount of people thinking this is all a fabrication from the media, it doesn’t look like it’s going to play out anytime soon.

Did everything open up too quickly? Absolutely!

Should schools not be allowed to start the new school year? Absolutely not!

Where is your reference that a "significant" amount of people think this is a hoax? You say we opened up too quickly but schools should definitely open? Your comments contradict themselves. Please explain.

[Stu from NYC]

Where is your reference that a "significant" amount of people think this is a hoax? You say we opened up too quickly but schools should definitely open? Your comments contradict themselves. Please explain.

Well lots of people on fb are starting threads saying it is a hoax:bigbow:

[Bucco]

Well lots of people on fb are starting threads saying it is a hoax:bigbow:

Americans ?

[collie1228]

If there is an effective, long-term vaccine made available to everyone, meaning everyone in the world, then there is a chance this pandemic can be stopped. If it is like the flu, with an annual vaccine that is basically a "educated guess" as to its effectiveness, we are in for a long slog with this evil virus. Even if an effective vaccine is developed, we as a society will have to deal with the vaccine deniers, who could make it tough on world populations by their irrational attitudes towards their children being vaccinated. I'm beginning to think that maybe the best solution is to go for the herd immunity. Let everyone be exposed to the virus, and whoever lives, lives. A hard solution for sure, but if exposure to the virus gives you antibodies for life, maybe that is the best solution. Frankly, I don't know. What I do know is everything the experts say flies in the face of human nature, especially American nature, which prizes its freedoms more than anything. We are in a big pickle, for sure.

[Aloha1]

Americans ?

Probably not. The intelligence community is recently reporting an uptick in social media posts from foreign sources promoting both that meme and one encouraging locking down the entire country again.

[graciegirl]

Probably not. The intelligence community is recently reporting an uptick in social media posts from foreign sources promoting both that meme and one encouraging locking down the entire country again.

I feel that people who are not on Facebook and cannot read the pulse and feel of how not only their friends feel but others in the community as well are missing out on real information about real life. Those afraid of Facebook are nailing themselves into a box and missing what is really happening, not what they are TOLD is happening.

I have almost a thousand people who I read on Facebook and it is very interesting to read what people who do not hide behind anonymous names have to say about current conditions and about public figures. Some are hidebound to their entrenched views and others seem to be changing. Most feel we don't have a good choice at all this fall. Period and amen.

The attitude on Facebook to me is that things are going to get a whole lot worse in every way before they get better. That means the economy, the danger of infection, the death rate from Covid-19 and the awful poverty that will follow all of this which will be followed by lawlessness.

Many, many, many are tired of the propaganda and preaching from activists who probably all live in Manhattan.

[Bikeracer2009]

I'm hoping for the best and prepared for the worst.

The covid-19 parties and other things young people are doing to purposefully spread the virus may continue until flu season hits. Then it's possible we could be in for another short term lockdown.

The police are tired and moral is low. Lawlessness could accelerate as a result but not likely. Some militia groups are saber rattling but it's not going to turn into anything. Grand master Jay keeps taunting the kkk and saying he's ordering his "troops" to prepare "all quadrants" for something to happen in Knoxville. He ran for president in 2016 and now he commands a militia. He seems unstable and I doubt his followers will follow him down the path of self destruction. He want's justice for the no knock warrant that lead to innocent people being shot and one killed. This issue has already been resolved so he's looking for a reason to flex his muscles?

Health care workers are tired and need a break. How long can they keep going as things get worse? They'll be fine. States that are not hit hard can send in support. Our military can also help out.

If the schools open and the virus starts to flare up, I'm sure they'll suspend school in hotspots until testing shows it's under control again.

When I visited the Publix last week I noticed a lot of the employees were retirement age. Will they go to work when the virus comes to the villages? I'm sure most will keep going to work.

If a lot of food workers get sick, truckers get sick and there's panic buying of food then food shortages could spread across states hard hit by the virus. This is very unlikely since most smart people have already stocked up and our food stockpiles are full from what I've heard.

Most likely the cold and flu season won't add much stress to our already strained system and people will keep a level head as we ride this thing out.

The election results won't cause any issues either. Some media outlets push the idea that this election has a lot riding on it and that if one party doesn't win there's going to be a few upset people. So what, they'll get over it.

The good thing about the villages is that most of the people probably have a couple of months worth of food supplies, don't need to go to work and can stay in their homes if the virus hits this area.

Everything's going to be just fine :)

[JimJohnson]

Under the current Direction we will lose 10’s of thousand more citizens before a vaccine is made readily available.

[Two Bills]

Well lots of people on fb are starting threads saying it is a hoax:bigbow:

I have never really paid much heed to all this foreign intervention and fake news stuff.
But.
After a recent report on BBC news regarding Russian hacking into Covid research laboratories changed my attitude.
Within 50-60 posts in the Comments Section, pro Russian posts of denial, literaly poured in.
The general consensus was the Russian Bots had picked up the reference, and responded.
It was really noticeable how quickly they responded, so now I am even more sceptical of comments on public media.

[JimJohnson]

No country should have to hack our research for medical cure studies. That should be shared information to speed up the process.

[jrg908369]

Where is your reference that a "significant" amount of people think this is a hoax? You say we opened up too quickly but schools should definitely open? Your comments contradict themselves. Please explain.
He said absolutely not on school openings.

[jojo]

No country should have to hack our research for medical cure studies. That should be shared information to speed up the process.

That the process for vaccine development should be transparent is the point that the director of the National Institutes for Health made on Meet the Press yesterday.

[oneclickplus]

If there is an effective, long-term vaccine made available to everyone, meaning everyone in the world, then there is a chance this pandemic can be stopped. If it is like the flu, with an annual vaccine that is basically a "educated guess" as to its effectiveness, we are in for a long slog with this evil virus. Even if an effective vaccine is developed, we as a society will have to deal with the vaccine deniers, who could make it tough on world populations by their irrational attitudes towards their children being vaccinated. I'm beginning to think that maybe the best solution is to go for the herd immunity. Let everyone be exposed to the virus, and whoever lives, lives. A hard solution for sure, but if exposure to the virus gives you antibodies for life, maybe that is the best solution. Frankly, I don't know. What I do know is everything the experts say flies in the face of human nature, especially American nature, which prizes its freedoms more than anything. We are in a big pickle, for sure.

There is evidence that most people will NOT take the vaccine. Look it up - I can't post links. Only about 30%-40% get the flu vaccine and a similar reception is expected for any other vaccine whether for Covid-19 or something else. I happen to be in that group. I will refuse a vaccine. My reasons are mine alone and no one has a right to judge me in this matter. If our nation won't stop abortions (my body, my choice the radical left feminists say), then I assert the same right ... my body, my choice.

No, vaccines will not solve this. IMHO, we are not going back to normal ... ever. Read your bible. Learn what it says: this civilization that abhors God's laws will come to an end. There is very little time left. Look at how the entire world has been tossed on its ear by a "simple virus". Can you imagine the chaos when a few missiles are lobbed around by some terrorists? What will happen when there are MASS electrical outages? What kind of violence will we see when there are *real* food shortages? It's all right around the corner.

Your first reaction might be: this is crazy talk. Consider that that might also have been your reaction if someone had predicted Covid-19 just a few months ago. More crazy is coming and soon. Totalitarian control (must wear a mask, can't use cash, etc) is coming.

[Bill1701]

It is really hard to tell how this will play out. New studies are coming out that contradict older studies of the virus. One new one says that the immunity to the virus tends to drop off significantly after only a few months. Does this mean you can get the virus over and over? Does it mean a vaccine will not work? So far, the best I have heard is that there are some new, promising treatments for the symptoms. If masks really work, we should mandate them when you are out in public and open everything up.

[merrymini]

Since viruses mutate, they may never get a vaccine that will protect everyone. The media LOVES to foment fear. Remember MERS and SARS? What we did not have then was this massive propaganda machine called the internet and facebook, unrelenting negativism. We will get through this like we get through everything. The biggest issue is not loosing our values and morality, that is what is lacking in our culture. There is no respect or regard and our individual rights are being assailed by the self righteous, todays brown shirts, antifa, etc.

[graciegirl]

Yep, it is a shame. Facebook is special to so many people, and it has been corrupted. Same with Twitter and a few others.

You are being influenced on those sites, whether you believe it or not. The attempt to take away our thinking, and to cause disruption is/has worked.



I think it is important to observe Facebook for several months before a critique is made of the venue.

[Bucco]

You trust Facebook instead of scientists and those that specialize ( education) in the situations affecting us?
This is exactly why America is so screwed up !

The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable. The hearings a few years ago were downright scary, and was one of the very few times, both sides were in agreement.

[Cheiro]

There have been other global health disruptions in history and civilization has survived and prospered.

That is reading backward....which should portray hope.

Looking forward during our time the outlook is confused by the extreme divided politics of the day. Compounded by instant global communications that allow significant emphasis on what the future holds....which are based on specific agendas...not all of which have the welfare of the masses in mind.

So based on your background, beliefs, influences, hopes.....how do you see the pandemic evolving and do you believe we will get back to life as most know/knew before the pandemic, political and special interest furor?

Not looking for blame or finger pointing or agenda promoting or who shoulda/coulda did or did not catharsis....just down to earth how do you see the future playing out as it affects and may affect your life.

I personally do not see any break with the current trends in infection until there is a vaccine/cure(?). Or there is a new infection/death rate that is accepted as it is what it is like the flu, cancer, auto deaths, smoking deaths, etc.
As the saying goes....this too shall pass.

I personally think the bigger issue facing our lives and how it affects all of our futures, is the accelerating deterioration of law and order to a new level of acceptable violence and selective enforcement of laws.

It seems we are being driven on a win/lose course with significantly dangerous results.

Hi, If one listens to the medical folks, they are the ones who seem to have their "act together" when it comes to what to do with this virus. After all, their only agenda, is to impart medical information. Throughout this entire time, the medical people have been consistent; hand washing, social distancing, mask wearing and sanitation of the environment are the basis of what we are to do. Until there is a treatment, a cure or a vaccine, we must live our lives around these actions. This is what had to be done in 1918 and this is what has to be done now. Any other information, opinions, or suggestions you hear will be coming from a source which may have a more personal, political, or narrow motivation and should be looked at with great skepticism. At the moment, it appears as if our new "lifestyle" is going to be with us for quite a long time. The 1918 flu took almost four years to dissipate. None of us like this, but it is the way of life now. Best wishes and stay safe.

[jmpalladino]

[QUOTE=oneclickplus;1806219]There is evidence that most people will NOT take the vaccine. Look it up - I can't post links. Only about 30%-40% get the flu vaccine and a similar reception is expected for any other vaccine whether for Covid-19 or something else. I happen to be in that group. I will refuse a vaccine. My reasons are mine alone and no one has a right to judge me in this matter. If our nation won't stop abortions (my body, my choice the radical left feminists say), then I assert the same right ... my body, my choice.

No, vaccines will not solve this.

Yes it is one's choice to elect to take the vaccine if developed. Those that do will likely live , those who do not may die, yes it is our choice. I will elect to live thank you. God bless the World!

[davem4616]

There have been other global health disruptions in history and civilization has survived and prospered.

That is reading backward....which should portray hope.

Looking forward during our time the outlook is confused by the extreme divided politics of the day. Compounded by instant global communications that allow significant emphasis on what the future holds....which are based on specific agendas...not all of which have the welfare of the masses in mind.

So based on your background, beliefs, influences, hopes.....how do you see the pandemic evolving and do you believe we will get back to life as most know/knew before the pandemic, political and special interest furor?

Not looking for blame or finger pointing or agenda promoting or who shoulda/coulda did or did not catharsis....just down to earth how do you see the future playing out as it affects and may affect your life.

I personally do not see any break with the current trends in infection until there is a vaccine/cure(?). Or there is a new infection/death rate that is accepted as it is what it is like the flu, cancer, auto deaths, smoking deaths, etc.
As the saying goes....this too shall pass.

I personally think the bigger issue facing our lives and how it affects all of our futures, is the accelerating deterioration of law and order to a new level of acceptable violence and selective enforcement of laws.

It seems we are being driven on a win/lose course with significantly dangerous results.


So, how does this all play out?

There's an almost endless number of scenario's...to name a few:

Once a vaccine is created everything returns to where it was (not gonna happen)

With the huge debt that we currently have, congress looking to spend $1 to $3 TRILLION more on relief and no vaccine yet....the whole US economy could completely collapse when we finally realize that we can't just print more money. When that happens China steps in and we go the way of England, Rome, Greece, Egypt etc.

Another scenario is that no matter what happens in November, we are never able to come together again as a unified country. Result, the USA as we knew it ceases to exist.

Another scenario is a vaccine is developed, the pandemic goes away over time around the world...as a population we are still divided, but we find a way to co-exist for the most part...but the same issues that we have today continue to fester and flare up

[graciegirl]

The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable. The hearings a few years ago were downright scary, and was one of the very few times, both sides were in agreement.

The hearings on Facebook?

Show us. Facebook faces public hearings on their practices - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Facebook%20faces%20public%20hearings%20on %20their%20practices&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&ghc=1&pq=facebook%20faces%20public%20hearings%20on%20the ir%20practices&sc=0-49&sk=&cvid=6B4C589C67E746E68A514388A390AB29)

[CS1987]

The swine flu in 1968/1969 killed an estimated 100,000 Americans. The population of the US was about 203 million people. The swine flu killed 1 million people worldwide. Most people who died were 65 and older. The population of the US now is about 325 million people. There were no lockdown's, mask wearing, social distancing, etc. In 1969.

[graciegirl]

There is evidence that most people will NOT take the vaccine. Look it up - I can't post links. Only about 30%-40% get the flu vaccine and a similar reception is expected for any other vaccine whether for Covid-19 or something else. I happen to be in that group. I will refuse a vaccine. My reasons are mine alone and no one has a right to judge me in this matter. If our nation won't stop abortions (my body, my choice the radical left feminists say), then I assert the same right ... my body, my choice.

No, vaccines will not solve this. IMHO, we are not going back to normal ... ever. Read your bible. Learn what it says: this civilization that abhors God's laws will come to an end. There is very little time left. Look at how the entire world has been tossed on its ear by a "simple virus". Can you imagine the chaos when a few missiles are lobbed around by some terrorists? What will happen when there are MASS electrical outages? What kind of violence will we see when there are *real* food shortages? It's all right around the corner.

Your first reaction might be: this is crazy talk. Consider that that might also have been your reaction if someone had predicted Covid-19 just a few months ago. More crazy is coming and soon. Totalitarian control (must wear a mask, can't use cash, etc) is coming.

5 facts about vaccines in the U.S. | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/03/19/5-facts-about-vaccines-in-the-u-s/)

[butch69]

Without universal testing and tracing (not to mention the easier just wear a mask) without a vaccine we'll not doubt face a second wave that could be worse.

[canyonblue]

There were no lockdown's, mask wearing, social distancing, etc. In 1969.

1969 WOODSTOCK

https://cdn.britannica.com/03/212903-050-E399A60B/Film-still-documentary-Woodstock-Music-Art-Fair-August-1969-Bethel-New-York.jpg

[Jacob85]

I think it’s too bad politics were ever brought into a Pandemic. That alone has put us behind in winning this COVID battle. Many more people will die while people haggle over wearing masks or not, how many people are counted as COVID who are not and basically playing the numbers game. If people would just listen to the real medical experts not these fake conspiracy theory people we could all pull together and best it. That’s probably not going to happen so will be like the 1918 pandemic where thousands of people died. That happened because of lack of knowledge back then. It will happen this time because of politics! We never learn!

[Martian]

Since viruses mutate, they may never get a vaccine that will protect everyone. The media LOVES to foment fear.

Personally, I disagree with this statement.

I believe media LOVES to make money. Fear simply sells. So, it is people who are afraid that cause the problem. People read/click on sensationalistic headlines.

If people would click on positive headlines - the news would stop with the sensationalism
If people would stop clicking on fake emails - they would stop sending them.
If people would stop buying from fake spam callers they would stop calling.

But people won't. It isn't going to happen.

[Martian]

Sadly, IMNSHO, we are moving into a period of anti-science. Spreading false information both intentionally and unintentionally is growing.

I believe this is one more symptom of overpopulation - other symptoms are climate change, spreading diseases (pandemics), starvation, war, rebellions, economic collapse, etc etc.

This is not my opinion personally, but the findings of the Pentagon over the past 20 years.

The Pentagons national/world security situation report to the President has for decades pointed to climate change and oil shortages as the top two causes of instability (war and rebellions) around the world. Add to that scientist's warnings that viruses have been mutating and represent a major (existential) threat because of overpopulation and constantly increasing mobility (planes, trains, and boats) proving easy and fast mechanisms for the viruses to spread, and we have the brewing of a perfect storm.

I do NOT believe the viruses have to result in an economic meltdown (global depression).

I believe that people's fear of the viruses, fed by disinformation, mixed messages, constantly failing to keep promises made, etc. will lead to a breakdown in the trust of the government. Democracy can ONLY work as long as the people believe in and trust the government and each other. And the collapse of trust in the government and a solution will drive the economy into depression. If the US does fall into a depression, the world will soon follow.

Everything we see happening today is driving us down the path of hating each other and the government. It's almost as if a sworn enemy is trying to destroy the US from within by causing us to hate each other - so that instead of working together to solve our problems, we spend all our time calling each other naming and spreading lies.

What is going to happen? I don't know, it depends.

I personally believe that unless a charismatic leader shows up that can unify most of us, this country's position as the world leader will be coming to an end. Unless we stop hating each other and try to find common ground to work together, we will fail.

I believe that Russia (Putin) would love to see that happen and is working hard to bring it about. But I think the actual next global power will be China.

I don't want it, I just believe it.

[Aloha1]

He said absolutely not on school openings.

Actually kcrazorbackfan said: "Should schools NOT be allowed to start the new school year? Absolutely not!"

The implication is schools SHOULD be allowed to open, which the medical experts, CDC, and NIH all agree on.

[Martian]

Actually kcrazorbackfan said: "Should schools NOT be allowed to start the new school year? Absolutely not!"

The implication is schools SHOULD be allowed to open, which the medical experts, CDC, and NIH all agree on.

To me, it is a confusing structure, but I believe taken in the context of the rest of the post it is intended to mean schools should not be opened at this time.

ie. "Should schools NOT be allowed to start the new school year? Absolutely should not be allowed to open"

[Byte1]

How's it play out?
With all the variables, it is impossible to predict accurately. I would suggest that if not for an election year, we would already see this thing starting to wane. We can predict that many more folks will die from this virus before things get back to normal. I also predict that even if you wear a giant body sized condom, you can still become infected IF you are going to get infected. I understand how everyone is scared and in a panic, but this stuff happens and then the world heals and we move on.
Look, if wearing a mask makes you feel safer, comfortable and immortal then do it. Wear some disposable gloves and eye protection also, so that you might actually be safer out there.
One theory is that if enough folks are exposed to it and survive then the virus will go the way of other seasonal illnesses. A vaccine such as the FLU vaccine is only seasonal too, and does nothing for new yearly versions of the Flu.
On the other hand, if everything closes up and everyone stays home, we will likely get over this faster. However, if we do that then there are probably millions who will ultimately be destitute with no income, no jobs, out of business and bankrupt. It is easy for us that are already retired with a source of income to be armchair managers and tell others what they should do or not do. Other folks have to make a living or get thrown out of their homes and starve. If it is safe enough, children need/really need to go back to school.
Folks are going to die, period. There is nothing you can do to live forever.
Some of the stuff you hear on TV and other comments suggest that you do things that many of us have done for years, decades. Wash you hands, keep you hands off your face and cover your mouth when coughing. That's stuff that is supposed to be ingrained into every kid's little minds from your earliest years. Maybe that is why I never get the FLU or a cold. Living overseas in some of the nastiest, dirtiest countries we learn to wash our hands so many times a day that they just about stay water wrinkled. We soaked our produce in bleach water to kill bacteria. We didn't drink the water and we learned to drink without ice cubes. If you shook someone's hand, you did not touch your face and used hand sanitizer first chance you got out of view. These are common sense approaches to staying germ- less.
I am sitting here right now, looking out my window at three folks playing golf in the sunshine. They probably know that the sunshine is killing any potential virus spores. Life goes on.
Wearing a seat belt won't keep you from having an accident. Wearing a helmet on a motorcycle won't keep you from having an accident. They might save you if you are in an accident. Panic stricken individuals believe that if you don't drive a car or a motorcycle you can't have an accident. You can tell everyone to stay home so they don't get the virus or you can live your daily lives and take precautions. Either way, some are going to die. Death is inevitable and pertains to everyone.
I am not going to tell others how they should live, but I plan to live my life with as low negativity as I can and the least restrictions on my lifestyle as possible. This thing will be over before you know it, and most of you will still be around to figure some new issue to make you miserable.

Doctors and scientists do not have a firm handle on this and can only make suggestions based on their limited knowledge of the virus. Doctors do not always get your diagnosis right. The population today proves that NO pandemic has wiped out humanity completely. This world is still over populated in spite of all the plagues and catastrophes throughout history.

Live life like today is your last day and maybe tomorrow will be a bonus.

[jimjamuser]

There have been other global health disruptions in history and civilization has survived and prospered.

That is reading backward....which should portray hope.

Looking forward during our time the outlook is confused by the extreme divided politics of the day. Compounded by instant global communications that allow significant emphasis on what the future holds....which are based on specific agendas...not all of which have the welfare of the masses in mind.

So based on your background, beliefs, influences, hopes.....how do you see the pandemic evolving and do you believe we will get back to life as most know/knew before the pandemic, political and special interest furor?

Not looking for blame or finger pointing or agenda promoting or who shoulda/coulda did or did not catharsis....just down to earth how do you see the future playing out as it affects and may affect your life.

I personally do not see any break with the current trends in infection until there is a vaccine/cure(?). Or there is a new infection/death rate that is accepted as it is what it is like the flu, cancer, auto deaths, smoking deaths, etc.
As the saying goes....this too shall pass.

I personally think the bigger issue facing our lives and how it affects all of our futures, is the accelerating deterioration of law and order to a new level of acceptable violence and selective enforcement of laws.

It seems we are being driven on a win/lose course with significantly dangerous results.
Kudos on the best written and explained thread that I have seen recently. Experts are predicting that Germany, of the large countries, is the MOST likely to thrive in the post-pandemic world. I predict that the US hits a REAL unemployment rate of 30 to 40 %. Then, it gets REALLY unpredictable - crystal ball like unpredictability. US society and others in the southern hemisphere are teadering on a knife's edge. Our's and their societies could change dramatically left or right - democracy is fragile - around the world, right now, democracies are failing. I am serious. I wish that I was not! It is no exaggeration. If you look with an unvarnished eye, you can see the signposts today.

[graciegirl]

Here is a ray of hope from a valid source;

Oxford coronavirus vaccine safe and promising, according to early human trial results published in the Lancet (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-safe-and-promising-according-to-phase-1-results-published-in-the-lancet/ar-BB16XQNY?ocid=msedgdhp)

[ffresh]

There is evidence that most people will NOT take the vaccine. Look it up - I can't post links. Only about 30%-40% get the flu vaccine and a similar reception is expected for any other vaccine whether for Covid-19 or something else. I happen to be in that group. I will refuse a vaccine. My reasons are mine alone and no one has a right to judge me in this matter. If our nation won't stop abortions (my body, my choice the radical left feminists say), then I assert the same right ... my body, my choice.

No, vaccines will not solve this. IMHO, we are not going back to normal ... ever. Read your bible. Learn what it says: this civilization that abhors God's laws will come to an end. There is very little time left. Look at how the entire world has been tossed on its ear by a "simple virus". Can you imagine the chaos when a few missiles are lobbed around by some terrorists? What will happen when there are MASS electrical outages? What kind of violence will we see when there are *real* food shortages? It's all right around the corner.

Your first reaction might be: this is crazy talk. Consider that that might also have been your reaction if someone had predicted Covid-19 just a few months ago. More crazy is coming and soon. Totalitarian control (must wear a mask, can't use cash, etc) is coming.

Firstly, I agree with you on the vaccine issue; if offered, I will refuse it. If mandated (by one means or another), I will avoid at all costs. BUT, I seriously doubt an efficacious vaccine will ever be developed, as is the case with some other "viruses". SOMETHING may eventually be offered as a "vaccine" but it might prove frightening to learn what is truly in it (we'll probably never know)! As far as the abortion issue, it is interesting to witness the rationalization coming from "that side of the aisle" on that very issue you raised - their body/their choice but they are not willing to afford you the same privilege. It's called hypocrisy.

I do not believe that the world has been turned on its ear by a simple virus. I believe people with nefarious motives have used this crisis to their advantage in steering this nation towards authoritarianism. As that "esteemed" (on the left) Rahm Emanuel once bloviated, "never let a good crisis go to waste". The current potential for totalitarian control you speak of has many, in positions of power, salivating like pavlov's dogs.

Those who love America and what The Founders bequeathed to us, must resist this current power play. You mention scripture, and those who believe know how it will end BUT, in the interim, it is not going to be "pretty"! :pray:

Fred

[mvbird]

I have thought this through the and the blunt conclusion I have come to is that this Coronavirus 19 will probably never go away, no matter how much we hope it will, even if we have a vaccine.
Consider the common cold and the seasonal flu which we have become accustomed to live (and die) with. Neither virus has a real treatment or cure other than 'rest and drink fluids', take what you can to feel better. Even though we are innoculated for the flu annually it still kills thousands of people.
Sadly I believe Covid19 will be with us for a long time. The strong members of the 'herd' will survive but as they age, Covid will mutate. Just one of nature's ways of controlling overpopulation.

I'm very sorry to post such a cruel forecast.

[Byte1]

Firstly, I agree with you on the vaccine issue; if offered, I will refuse it. If mandated (by one means or another), I will avoid at all costs. BUT, I seriously doubt an efficacious vaccine will ever be developed, as is the case with some other "viruses". SOMETHING may eventually be offered as a "vaccine" but it might prove frightening to learn what is truly in it (we'll probably never know)! As far as the abortion issue, it is interesting to witness the rationalization coming from "that side of the aisle" on that very issue you raised - their body/their choice but they are not willing to afford you the same privilege. It's called hypocrisy.

I do not believe that the world has been turned on its ear by a simple virus. I believe people with nefarious motives have used this crisis to their advantage in steering this nation towards authoritarianism. As that "esteemed" (on the left) Rahm Emanuel once bloviated, "never let a good crisis go to waste". The current potential for totalitarian control you speak of has many, in positions of power, salivating like pavlov's dogs.

Those who love America and what The Founders bequeathed to us, must resist this current power play. You mention scripture, and those who believe know how it will end BUT, in the interim, it is not going to be "pretty"! :pray:

Fred

Sounds reasonable to me and I agree.
I am not quite ready to write off the world yet. Although, mankind does not present a very good example as to why it shouldn't end.
And they can't force you to take the vaccine if there ever is one. They can refuse your kids entry into public schools without it though. I wear a mask when I shop but do NOT agree with mandating the wearing of a mask. I do NOT get the FLU shot and would not if it was mandated. If someone suggests that I am being selfish, that is their opinion.

[Martian]

Sadly I believe Covid19 will be with us for a long time. The strong members of the 'herd' will survive but as they age, COVID will mutate. Just one of nature's ways of controlling overpopulation.

I completely agree, but I also feel that science has always come to the rescue eventually. While anarchy never comes to the rescue, and the "everyone should use common sense" is anarchy.

[rmd2]

To me, it is a confusing structure, but I believe taken in the context of the rest of the post it is intended to mean schools should not be opened at this time.

ie. "Should schools NOT be allowed to start the new school year? Absolutely should not be allowed to open"

In grammar 2 negatives is a positive.

[Manhoopty]

I Love that “old adage”....so true in today’s world.

[Byte1]

Actually we do have a right to judge you. You don't have to take any vaccine for whatever your reasons are but that decision impacts the health of those around you. The judgement, from me, is unless you have a reaction to the vaccine, why would you think it's ok to negatively impact people around you.

I wonder how wide spread Polio would be if we had not taken the vaccine or how many other diseases would still be around without a vaccine. So yes, there is a choice but asing not to be judged because you ask us not to, isn't going to happen, not when that decision impacts me.

Thank you for being honest. Many on here think that what I do must be with the precept that I am helping others. Personally, I do not care whether or not they get a vaccine shot. That's their choice and I doubt it will effect me. My not getting the FLU vaccine does not impact the health of you or anyone else. With the ratio of death to population as of today, I would not get the vaccine for the virus, because the death rate is so low in proportion of the population around me. I might consider it IF that rate suddenly became heavier on the side of the death rate ratio. The probability of me catching the virus is low. The chance that I would become infected and die from it, is way lower. But, I am glad that others will rush to get it when it first comes out. I wonder what the ratio of death will be from those that get the vaccine. I wonder if they will find that a few folks die from the vaccine. Hope is nice. I hope that some day they will find a cure for cancer, but I won't hold my breath. I do not foresee a vaccine this year, but I do see people surviving the pandemic this year. I see folks that wear masks and those that do not, both surviving the pandemic.

Stay home and stay safe. It makes traffic lighter and shopping a breeze for me.

[jimjamuser]

Current trends where? There are many places in the world where deaths and new cases are dropping to almost zero with no new surge like Florida. Look at this chart showing deaths per million of New York State and Sweden. New York locked down on March 17, recommended facemasks in early April. Sweden did neither of these. But both places show a rapid rise to a peak and then the numbers start dropping, heading towards zero. Neither Sweden or New York State is showing a huge surge in new cases like Florida. Only conclusion one can make is NY and Sweden have reached a herd immunity threshold, while Florida has not.

85328

Many scientists like Michael Levitt, Nobel Prize winner at Stanford, have studied the data from all over the world and conclude that HIT is less than 30%. This does not mean 30% of population must be confirmed positive by tests. It's estimated that there are 10 times as many untested asymptomatic cases as there are confirmed positives.

Now many studies are showing an even greater number of people who have T cell immunity from previous exposure to other coronaviruses like common cold. Here is a new study from Oxford.

News report:

Coronavirus: Levels of herd immunity in UK may already be high enough to prevent second wave, study suggests | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-second-wave-oxford-study-boris-johnson-a9623791.html)

Actual study:

The impact of host resistance on cumulative mortality and the threshold of herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2 | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1.full.pdf

Based on these studies, I predict Florida's surge of new cases will start to fall by the end of this month. It's too bad that the percent positive numbers on Florida's website are inaccurate due to the reporting all positives problem, as that could serve as a good indicator. I could be wrong, but if that actually happens, I will remind you that I predicted this at the beginning of July. :icon_wink:
The whole herd idea is wrong and bizarro! It takes 60% positive cases to achieve "herd immunity". Florida has 14% today positive cases today. (St Pete has 9% because they went to masks). Sweden's overall deaths are 11 times neighboring Norway. Only 25% of Swedes in Stockholm have been exposed. They ADMIT that their "herd immunity" attempt did not work. Just Google that! But, all the charts in the world are not as significant as the fact that the US is #1 in the world for mishandling the CV Plague. We should only have about 60,000 deaths today. The US is currently # 5 in world ranking for deaths (and rising due to rising case). I don't understand the effort to misinform the Villiage people by poo - pooing the problem - what is the motivation for that? To kill as many Village people as possible?

[jimjamuser]

Well lots of people on fb are starting threads saying it is a hoax:bigbow:
Russian hacking bots??????

[billethkid]

Here is a ray of hope from a valid source;

Oxford coronavirus vaccine safe and promising, according to early human trial results published in the Lancet (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-safe-and-promising-according-to-phase-1-results-published-in-the-lancet/ar-BB16XQNY?ocid=msedgdhp)

Let's hope the progress continues positive.
I think the vaccine will become the catalyst that will determine what acceptable risk levels could be for for resumption of normal life styles similar to the flu, auto accidents, flying, et al.

[jimjamuser]

If there is an effective, long-term vaccine made available to everyone, meaning everyone in the world, then there is a chance this pandemic can be stopped. If it is like the flu, with an annual vaccine that is basically a "educated guess" as to its effectiveness, we are in for a long slog with this evil virus. Even if an effective vaccine is developed, we as a society will have to deal with the vaccine deniers, who could make it tough on world populations by their irrational attitudes towards their children being vaccinated. I'm beginning to think that maybe the best solution is to go for the herd immunity. Let everyone be exposed to the virus, and whoever lives, lives. A hard solution for sure, but if exposure to the virus gives you antibodies for life, maybe that is the best solution. Frankly, I don't know. What I do know is everything the experts say flies in the face of human nature, especially American nature, which prizes its freedoms more than anything. We are in a big pickle, for sure.
A "pickle" caused by procrastination, greed, power, maybe prejudice, and overall lack of empathy. What would Jesus have to lead his sheep away from the slaughter ????

[jimjamuser]

The swine flu in 1968/1969 killed an estimated 100,000 Americans. The population of the US was about 203 million people. The swine flu killed 1 million people worldwide. Most people who died were 65 and older. The population of the US now is about 325 million people. There were no lockdown's, mask wearing, social distancing, etc. In 1969.
Virus apples and oranges.

[GoodLife]

The whole herd idea is wrong and bizarro! It takes 60% positive cases to achieve "herd immunity". Florida has 14% today positive cases today. (St Pete has 9% because they went to masks). Sweden's overall deaths are 11 times neighboring Norway. Only 25% of Swedes in Stockholm have been exposed. They ADMIT that their "herd immunity" attempt did not work. Just Google that! But, all the charts in the world are not as significant as the fact that the US is #1 in the world for mishandling the CV Plague. We should only have about 60,000 deaths today. The US is currently # 5 in world ranking for deaths (and rising due to rising case). I don't understand the effort to misinform the Villiage people by poo - pooing the problem - what is the motivation for that? To kill as many Village people as possible?

I am not sure if it's worth the bother to reply to people who don't read links but I'll try to be nice.

First, the number of confirmed positive tests in Florida is only the tip of the iceberg. There have been 100s of scientific studies by DOCTORS that show that the number of asymptomatic cases that are out there dwarfs the number of confirmed positive tests.
CDC Director Redfield recently stated that it is probably 10 times as many asymptomatics as confirmed cases. That means if we currently have 360,000 cases confirmed by testing, there are actually 3,600,000 cases out there if you add untested asymptomatics. Asymptomatics don't die but they can and do spread the virus.

Second, new scientific studies by DOCTORS and EPIDEMIOLOGISTS (like the Oxford study I linked) are now proposing that there are huge numbers of people who have T cell immunity from previous exposure to other coronaviruses like the common cold. These people, when exposed to the virus, do not get sick because their T cells fight it off. They also do not show up in antibody tests.

Coronavirus: Levels of herd immunity in UK may already be high enough to prevent second wave, study suggests | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-second-wave-oxford-study-boris-johnson-a9623791.html)

I didn't come up with the idea that the herd immunity threshold is 30% or less, a Nobel Prize winner from Stanford named Michael Levitt did. He did this after analyzing data from countries all over the world. The epidemiologists at Oxford in their study I previously linked, confirm this theory.

You can see that in reality, places like New York and Sweden have reached the herd immunity threshold already. Even though New York used lockdowns and masks, while Sweden did not, their graphs for daily deaths go up to a peak and then down in a very similar way. Both places now are approaching zero in new deaths and cases with no surge like we have in Florida.

85351

Florida has not reached the threshold yet, but will very soon (by end of July) and then new cases will start going down. We will have an uptick in new deaths for a few more weeks (deaths lag)and then those will start going down too. My prediction is based on known number of confirmed positives, and estimated asymptomatics and T cell immunes. When these reach a certain percentage of population, the virus runs out of targets.

As always, I advise my fellow elderly and at risk neighbors to stay out of buildings except home and take no risks until new cases start approaching zero. :icon_wink:

[DON10E]

It may all get real easy soon.

Business Insider logo Business Insider 5 hrs ago

Shares of small UK biotech firm Synairgen spiked as much as 552% higher on Monday after the company revealed its experimental coronavirus drug was mostly successful in preventing the development of serious COVID-19 symptoms.

The company's SNG001 drug reduced the odds of a patient needing ventilation or dying by 79% compared to those receiving a placebo, the company said Monday. Patients receiving the drug were also more than twice as likely to recover and experienced a "markedly reduced" level of breathlessness.

"This assessment of SNG001 in COVID-19 patients could signal a major breakthrough in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients," CEO Richard Marsden said in a press release. "Our efforts are now focused on working with the regulators and other key groups to progress this potential COVID-19 treatment as rapidly as possible."

Synairgen's trial involved 220 subjects in the UK. Further analysis of the trial's results will take place over the coming weeks.

The stock's Monday leap follows similar upswings for biotech stocks racing to introduce the first effective coronavirus treatment. Industry giants including Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Gilead are among the several firms with drugs undergoing trials.

Moderna soared as much as 18% on Thursday after its experimental drug safely produced antibodies in all 45 of its Phase 1 trial participants.

Synairgen's stock traded at 232.23 pence ($2.91) per share as of 8:30 ET Monday, up 3,185% year-to-date.

[Baywayric]

The swine flu in 1968/1969 killed an estimated 100,000 Americans. The population of the US was about 203 million people. The swine flu killed 1 million people worldwide. Most people who died were 65 and older. The population of the US now is about 325 million people. There were no lockdown's, mask wearing, social distancing, etc. In 1969.

Actually, in 68/69 it was the Hong Kong Flu, which killed between 1 and 4 million people worldwide. The Swine Flu pandemic was in 2009, and killed between 150,000 and 575,000 people worldwide. In addition to no lockdown’s, masks, distancing, etc., there was no internet, Facebook or Twitter.

[Aloha1]

To me, it is a confusing structure, but I believe taken in the context of the rest of the post it is intended to mean schools should not be opened at this time.

ie. "Should schools NOT be allowed to start the new school year? Absolutely should not be allowed to open"

Not at all what the OP meant. Should not? Absolutely not? Perhaps the OP will come back and clarify. If not, I stand on my opinion.

[jimjamuser]

I am not sure if it's worth the bother to reply to people who don't read links but I'll try to be nice.

First, the number of confirmed positive tests in Florida is only the tip of the iceberg. There have been 100s of scientific studies by DOCTORS that show that the number of asymptomatic cases that are out there dwarfs the number of confirmed positive tests.
CDC Director Redfield recently stated that it is probably 10 times as many asymptomatics as confirmed cases. That means if we currently have 360,000 cases confirmed by testing, there are actually 3,600,000 cases out there if you add untested asymptomatics. Asymptomatics don't die but they can and do spread the virus.

Second, new scientific studies by DOCTORS and EPIDEMIOLOGISTS (like the Oxford study I linked) are now proposing that there are huge numbers of people who have T cell immunity from previous exposure to other coronaviruses like the common cold. These people, when exposed to the virus, do not get infected because their T cells fight it off. They also do not show up in antibody tests. They have natural immunity and do not spread the virus.

Coronavirus: Levels of herd immunity in UK may already be high enough to prevent second wave, study suggests | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-second-wave-oxford-study-boris-johnson-a9623791.html)

I didn't come up with the idea that the herd immunity threshold is 30% or less, a Nobel Prize winner from Stanford named Michael Levitt did. He did this after analyzing data from countries all over the world. The epidemiologists at Oxford in their study I previously linked, confirm this theory.

You can see that in reality, places like New York and Sweden have reached the herd immunity threshold already. Even though New York used lockdowns and masks, while Sweden did not, their graphs for daily deaths go up to a peak and then down in a very similar way. Both places now are approaching zero in new deaths and cases with no surge like we have in Florida.

85351

Florida has not reached the threshold yet, but will very soon (by end of July) and then new cases will start going down. We will have an uptick in new deaths for a few more weeks (deaths lag)and then those will start going down too. My prediction is based on known number of confirmed positives, and estimated asymptomatics and T cell immunes. When these reach a certain percentage of population, the virus runs out of targets.

As always, I advise my fellow elderly and at risk neighbors to stay out of buildings except home and take no risks until new cases start approaching zero. :icon_wink:
Everyone in the Villages is elderly. When you downplay the CV facts ( so cleverly ), I know that it's end result will be more DEAD Villagers. Jesus will NOT be mad at me. And I feel so proud that you lower yourself to help me understand the multitude of graphs and words intended to dismiss the severity of this PLAGUE. A very expert doctor predicts that when CV runs its course that 800,000 US citizens will be DEAD! Many will DIE of CV in TV. I won't be to blame. I will promise to read your links when you promise to Google -- "Sweden admits to being wrong ABOUT "HERD IMMUNITY"!
There are Doctors and nurses rushing to Miami. I believe that freezer trucks are ordered. Perhaps THEY forgot to read your pretty graphs? I hope it is not too LATE to call them back. People that downplay, should ask, "What if I am wrong". The wrong answer is DEATH TO FRIENDS. The other answer is only inconvenience. What choice would a good gambler make? And then there is my question about motivation? I KNOW why I am saying my ideas.

[Aloha1]

Everyone in the Villages is elderly. When you downplay the CV facts ( so cleverly ), I know that it's end result will be more DEAD Villagers. Jesus will NOT be mad at me. And I feel so proud that you lower yourself to help me understand the multitude of graphs and words intended to dismiss the severity of this PLAGUE. A very expert doctor predicts that when CV runs its course that 800,000 US citizens will be DEAD! Many will DIE of CV in TV. I won't be to blame. I will promise to read your links when you promise to Google -- "Sweden admits to being wrong ABOUT "HERD IMMUNITY"!
There are Doctors and nurses rushing to Miami. I believe that freezer trucks are ordered. Perhaps THEY forgot to read your pretty graphs? I hope it is not too LATE to call them back. People that downplay, should ask, "What if I am wrong". The wrong answer is DEATH TO FRIENDS. The other answer is only inconvenience. What choice would a good gambler make? And then there is my question about motivation? I KNOW why I am saying my ideas.

I googled your site and found it was posted June 3rd, a lifetime ago in virus terms. I then googled the CURRENT conditions in Sweden as of July 19. Interestingly, there was ONE death on 7/19 which was the lowest since March 10th's zero deaths at the beginning of the pandemic. I also saw that new cases were 115. Again the lowest daily number since March 10th's total of 98. All of this without shutting the economy down and no surge like we have now. So, Sweden did make a mistake by not encouraging the older part of the population to take precautions early enough but then again, who knew at the beginning of this whole mess? You can verify this data here: Sweden Coronavirus: 78,048 Cases and 5,639 Deaths - Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/)

My bottom line is it looks like Sweden is ahead of us now due to herd immunity.

[valuemkt]

How will this play out ? Old people will die, as they have since the beginning of time. Regretfully, many will die at home, alone and depressed, scared by mass media that all of a sudden every person that looks twice at them is contagious and will make them die .. earlier than they would have.. In a few short months the entire country has become a leper colony, except that no one can see the sores, so the assumption is that everyone is a carrier. And now many of these people are trying to condemn children to the same fear that has overtaken them, depriving young energetic children of their right to learn and grow . The virus, of course has turned political, and the fear mongerers want to impose interminable isolation onto the entire nation, saying that the entire country needs to be shut down until a cure or vaccine is found, even though a small portion of them will consider immediately taking one.. So many of all age groups will either die of atrophy or violence as the law of unintended consequences eliminate years of progress and accomplishments. The country has never been more vulnerable to an enemy attack.. let's pray that the country gets back to work and school quickly.. and that we shore up our defenses .. via medicine, self sufficiency, and pure American strength and ingenuity. Fear and isolation is not a strategy or formula for a long, enjoyable, prosperous life.

[GoodLife]

I googled your site and found it was posted June 3rd, a lifetime ago in virus terms. I then googled the CURRENT conditions in Sweden as of July 19. Interestingly, there was ONE death on 7/19 which was the lowest since March 10th's zero deaths at the beginning of the pandemic. I also saw that new cases were 115. Again the lowest daily number since March 10th's total of 98. All of this without shutting the economy down and no surge like we have now. So, Sweden did make a mistake by not encouraging the older part of the population to take precautions early enough but then again, who knew at the beginning of this whole mess? You can verify this data here: Sweden Coronavirus: 78,048 Cases and 5,639 Deaths - Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/)

My bottom line is it looks like Sweden is ahead of us now due to herd immunity.

Thanks for posting facts. 75% of Sweden's death total came from nursing homes. Everyone missed the danger for these very old and vulnerable.

Yes there are many countries that currently have no surge. These are most likely due to a low herd immunity threshold as I have explained. Florida should get there very soon at the rate we are going.

[GoodLife]

Everyone in the Villages is elderly. When you downplay the CV facts ( so cleverly ), I know that it's end result will be more DEAD Villagers. Jesus will NOT be mad at me. And I feel so proud that you lower yourself to help me understand the multitude of graphs and words intended to dismiss the severity of this PLAGUE. A very expert doctor predicts that when CV runs its course that 800,000 US citizens will be DEAD! Many will DIE of CV in TV. I won't be to blame. I will promise to read your links when you promise to Google -- "Sweden admits to being wrong ABOUT "HERD IMMUNITY"!
There are Doctors and nurses rushing to Miami. I believe that freezer trucks are ordered. Perhaps THEY forgot to read your pretty graphs? I hope it is not too LATE to call them back. People that downplay, should ask, "What if I am wrong". The wrong answer is DEATH TO FRIENDS. The other answer is only inconvenience. What choice would a good gambler make? And then there is my question about motivation? I KNOW why I am saying my ideas.

A "very expert Doctor" LOL

Everything in my post is factual. There are tons of asymptomatics out there, and T cells can and do defeat the coronavirus. Many countries and US states appear to have reached herd immunity. This virus does not spread exponentially as once was feared. If it did, all of Sweden would be infected and their death toll would be much higher. The deaths and cases rose to a peak and then fell, now approaching zero. There is no other explanation for this other than herd immunity.

I won't be to blame if any more Villagers die from covid 19. Read this last sentence again very carefully.

As always, I advise my fellow elderly and at risk neighbors to stay out of buildings except home and take no risks until new cases start approaching zero.

The reason I say stay out of all buildings except home is simple. Asymptomatics do not spread the virus thru larger droplets from sneezes and coughs. They are ASYMPTOMATIC. They spread the virus just by breathing and talking, very small particles which will not be stopped by a cloth mask and can hang in the air in enclosed spaces for quite some time.

[Martian]

A "very expert Doctor" LOL
The reason I say stay out of all buildings except home is simple. Asymptomatics do not spread the virus thru larger droplets from sneezes and coughs. They are ASYMPTOMATIC. They spread the virus just by breathing and talking, very small particles which will not be stopped by a cloth mask and can hang in the air in enclosed spaces for quite some time.

When someone says "won't be stopped by clothes masks" they imply cloth masks are useless and that is not the case. The masks reduce the chances. If both are wearing cloth masks then it is double the reduction. It is not an all or nothing situation. Helping is better than not helping.

[GoodLife]

When someone says "won't be stopped by clothes masks" they imply cloth masks are useless and that is not the case. The masks reduce the chances. If both are wearing cloth masks then it is double the reduction. It is not an all or nothing situation. Helping is better than not helping.

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

[DON10E]

[QUOTE=oneclickplus;1806219]There is evidence that most people will NOT take the vaccine. Look it up - I can't post links. Only about 30%-40% get the flu vaccine and a similar reception is expected for any other vaccine whether for Covid-19 or something else. I happen to be in that group. I will refuse a vaccine. My reasons are mine alone and no one has a right to judge me in this matter. If our nation won't stop abortions (my body, my choice the radical left feminists say), then I assert the same right ... my body, my choice.

No, vaccines will not solve this.

Yes it is one's choice to elect to take the vaccine if developed. Those that do will likely live , those who do not may die, yes it is our choice. I will elect to live thank you. God bless the World!

Sorry, the government will force people to take the vaccine, like it or not. They Will hold you down and give you the shot. This is clear from constitutional lawyers.

They say you can pass on a vaccine that will protect you (like the flu), but if a vaccine will protect others (Like the highly contagious Corona virus) you have no choice.

That’s what they say. Please don’t argue without posting your sources or personal constitutional credentials.

[DON10E]

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

Farts seem to pass through several layers of cloth. Why wouldn’t the virus?

😛

[Kahuna32162]

Well lots of people on fb are starting threads saying it is a hoax:bigbow:

How many people you know, or, God forbid, members of your family have to get sick or DIE before you realize this is real?

[chet2020]

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

How can a guy review the literature as much as you do conclude that cloth masks have no value in a public setting? Here is yet another study concluding that masks are not just slightly helpful, but significantly helpful in reducing virus spread.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

[Martian]

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

Sorry, this is NOT true, the cloth will stop a percentage of the small particles.

From CDC Site:

"Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of cloth face coverings is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain."

And a few references to support that recommendation:

Rothe C, Schunk M, Sothmann P, et al. Transmission of 2019-nCoV Infection from an Asymptomatic Contact in Germany. The New England journal of medicine. 2020;382(10):970-971. PMID: 32003551external icon

Zou L, Ruan F, Huang M, et al. SARS-CoV-2 Viral Load in Upper Respiratory Specimens of Infected Patients. The New England journal of medicine. 2020;382(12):1177-1179. PMID: 32074444external icon

Pan X, Chen D, Xia Y, et al. Asymptomatic cases in a family cluster with SARS-CoV-2 infection. The Lancet Infectious diseases. 2020. PMID: 32087116external icon
Bai Y, Yao L, Wei T, et al. Presumed Asymptomatic Carrier Transmission of COVID-19. Jama. 2020. PMID: 32083643external icon

Kimball A HK, Arons M, et al. Asymptomatic and Presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Residents of a Long-Term Care Skilled Nursing Facility — King County, Washington, March 2020. MMWR Morbidity and mortality weekly report. 2020; ePub: 27 March 2020. PMID: 32240128external icon

Wei WE LZ, Chiew CJ, Yong SE, Toh MP, Lee VJ. Presymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 — Singapore, January 23–March 16, 2020. MMWR Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. 2020;ePub: 1 April 2020. PMID: 32271722external icon

Li R, Pei S, Chen B, et al. Substantial undocumented infection facilitates the rapid dissemination of novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV2). Science (New York, NY). 2020. PMID: 32179701external icon

Furukawa NW, Brooks JT, Sobel J. Evidence Supporting Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 While Presymptomatic or Asymptomatic [published online ahead of print, 2020 May 4]. Emerg Infect Dis. 2020;26(7):10.3201/eid2607.201595. Link

Oran DP, Topol Prevalence of Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infection: A Narrative Review [published online ahead of print, 2020 Jun 3]. Ann Intern Med. 2020;M20-3012. PMID: 32491919external icon

National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2020. Rapid Expert Consultation on the Possibility of Bioaerosol Spread of SARS-CoV-2 for the COVID-19 Pandemic (April 1, 2020). Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Error: DOI Not Found (https://doi.org/10.17226/25769external) icon.

Schwartz KL, Murti M, Finkelstein M, et al. Lack of COVID-19 transmission on an international flight. CMAJ. 2020;192(15):E410. PMID: 32392504external icon

Anfinrud P, Stadnytskyi V, Bax CE, Bax A. Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering. N Engl J Med. 2020 Apr 15. doi:10.1056/NEJMc2007800. PMID: 32294341external icon

Davies A, Thompson KA, Giri K, Kafatos G, Walker J, Bennett A. Testing the efficacy of homemade masks: would they protect in an influenza pandemic? Disaster Med Public Health Prep. 2013;7(4):413-8. PMID: 24229526external icon

Konda A, Prakash A, Moss GA, Schmoldt M, Grant GD, Guha S. Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks. ACS Nano. 2020 Apr 24. PMID: 32329337external icon

Aydin O, Emon B, Saif MTA. Performance of fabrics for home-made masks against spread of respiratory infection through droplets: a quantitative mechanistic study. medRxiv
preprint doi: Performance of Fabrics for Home-Made Masks Against the Spread of Respiratory Infections Through Droplets: A Quantitative Mechanistic Study | medRxiv (https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779), posted April 24, 2020.
Ma QX, Shan H, Zhang HL, Li GM, Yang RM, Chen JM. Potential utilities of mask-wearing and instant hand hygiene for fighting SARS-CoV-2. J Med Virol. 2020. PMID: 32232986external icon

Leung, N.H.L., Chu, D.K.W., Shiu, E.Y.C. et al.Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks. Nat Med. 2020. PMID: 32371934external icon

Johnson DF, Druce JD, Birch C, Grayson ML. A quantitative assessment of the efficacy of surgical and N95 masks to filter influenza virus in patients with acute influenza infection. Clin Infect Dis. 2009 Jul 15;49(2):275-7. PMID: 19522650external icon

Green CF, Davidson CS, Panlilio AL, et al. Effectiveness of selected surgical masks in arresting vegetative cells and endospores when worn by simulated contagious patients. Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2012;33(5):487‐494. PMID: 22476275external icon

Believe what you want. No longer matters to me.

[graciegirl]

Here is an article just out that says that Covid-19 kills under 2% of those it infects. It says it is not as deadly as Ebola but far more contagious. It says it kills more than the seasonal flu...and kills more elderly people.

Here;

How Deadly Is Covid-19? Researchers Are Getting Closer to an Answer (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/how-deadly-is-covid-19-researchers-are-getting-closer-to-an-answer/ar-BB1704sb?ocid=msedgdhp)

[GoodLife]

How can a guy review the literature as much as you do conclude that cloth masks have no value in a public setting? Here is yet another study concluding that masks are not just slightly helpful, but significantly helpful in reducing virus spread.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

That's a modeling study based on lots of assumptions and I don't think the writers have medical expertise. Even so, they claim that mask wearing reduced infections by 0,9% to 2%. Hardly what you would call very effective.

Here is a study done by two Doctors who are experts in respiratory protection who reviewed all the scientific studies.

We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing. At the time we wrote this article, we were unable to locate any well-performed studies of cloth mask leakage when worn on the face—either inward or outward leakage. As far as we know, these data are still lacking.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data)

Cloth masks can reduce transmission of larger cough and sneeze droplets, but look like a chain link fence to the smaller aerosol particles that asymptomatics spread by just breathing.

[graciegirl]

That's a modeling study based on lots of assumptions and I don't think the writers have medical expertise. Even so, they claim that mask wearing reduced infections by 0,9% to 2%. Hardly what you would call very effective.

Here is a study done by two Doctors who are experts in respiratory protection who reviewed all the scientific studies.

We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing. At the time we wrote this article, we were unable to locate any well-performed studies of cloth mask leakage when worn on the face—either inward or outward leakage. As far as we know, these data are still lacking.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data)

Cloth masks can reduce transmission of larger cough and sneeze droplets, but look like a chain link fence to the smaller aerosol particles that asymptomatics spread by just breathing.

Well then, I offer this;

Just wear them to be polite, like underpants.

[GoodLife]

Well then, I offer this;

Just wear them to be polite, like underpants.

I don't go in any buildings except home, stay 20 feet or more from people when outside. So no need for me to be polite. I have no problem with people who wear masks, just letting them know that they are taking a risk by going inside buildings where there are other people.

I wear underwear most of the time now, when younger I often went commando. Nobody knew unless they had xray vision. :icon_wink::icon_wink:

[chet2020]

That's a modeling study based on lots of assumptions and I don't think the writers have medical expertise. Even so, they claim that mask wearing reduced infections by 0,9% to 2%. Hardly what you would call very effective.

Here is a study done by two Doctors who are experts in respiratory protection who reviewed all the scientific studies.

We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing. At the time we wrote this article, we were unable to locate any well-performed studies of cloth mask leakage when worn on the face—either inward or outward leakage. As far as we know, these data are still lacking.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data)

Cloth masks can reduce transmission of larger cough and sneeze droplets, but look like a chain link fence to the smaller aerosol particles that asymptomatics spread by just breathing.

A. You link an article that is labeled "commentary," i.e. an opinion piece.

B. The article you link is dated April 1, 2020. That is ancient history. At that time, it was thought virus transmission was predominantly via surface contact, not airborne. Now we know transmission is predominantly airborne, not surface.

C. Martian linked 17 articles indicating cloth masks are useful. The phrase is "preponderance of the evidence."

[DON10E]

[QUOTE=DON10E;1806496]

Like you did?

Steve

Starts at 5:32.

Alan Dershowitz discusses legality of mandatory #COVID-19 vaccines - YouTube (https://youtu.be/9rNTqCD3N-4)

[coffeebean]

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

The Cleveland Clinic does not agree with you. This is what The Cleveland Clinic has to say about this.......

Here’s How Wearing a Cloth Mask Helps Fight the Spread of Coronavirus – Health Essentials from Cleveland Clinic (https://health.clevelandclinic.org/heres-how-wearing-a-cloth-mask-helps-fight-the-spread-of-coronavirus/)

[DON10E]

As of today, 54% of all confirmed cases in Florida come from 5 counties in or around Miami-Dade.

Rather than a travel ban on New Yorkers, wouldn’t a travel ban on those counties make more sense?

[coffeebean]

That's a modeling study based on lots of assumptions and I don't think the writers have medical expertise. Even so, they claim that mask wearing reduced infections by 0,9% to 2%. Hardly what you would call very effective.

Here is a study done by two Doctors who are experts in respiratory protection who reviewed all the scientific studies.

We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing. At the time we wrote this article, we were unable to locate any well-performed studies of cloth mask leakage when worn on the face—either inward or outward leakage. As far as we know, these data are still lacking.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data)

Cloth masks can reduce transmission of larger cough and sneeze droplets, but look like a chain link fence to the smaller aerosol particles that asymptomatics spread by just breathing.

This is the reason why social distancing in addition to mask wearing is vitally important to slow the spread.

[GoodLife]

A. You link an article that is labeled "commentary," i.e. an opinion piece.

B. The article you link is dated April 1, 2020. That is ancient history. At that time, it was thought virus transmission was predominantly via surface contact, not airborne. Now we know transmission is predominantly airborne, not surface.

C. Martian linked 17 articles indicating cloth masks are useful. The phrase is "preponderance of the evidence."

LOL The two respiratory specialist Doctors who wrote that commentary looked at all the available studies that tested masks against virus particles. Coronavirus is no different than any virus that transmit thru cough and sneeze droplets or fine particle aerosols. There is no new magic cloth mask technology that can block fine aerosol particles, only N95 can do that.

Filter efficiency was measured across a wide range of small particle sizes (0.02 to 1 µm) at 33 and 99 L/min. N95 respirators had efficiencies greater than 95% (as expected). For the entire range of particles tested, t-shirts had 10% efficiency, scarves 10% to 20%, cloth masks 10% to 30%, sweatshirts 20% to 40%, and towels 40%. All of the cloth masks and materials had near zero efficiency at 0.3 µm, a particle size that easily penetrates into the lungs.

Near zero efficiency :icon_wink:

If you think that cloth mask is protecting you from virus aerosols, go for it.

[Klatu]

Well according to my crystal ball:

Infections will rise, and are likely near their peak, then decline. Hysterics will seek out places where there is some exception to the decline and proclaim that the end of civilization is near if we don't lockdown immediately, and forever.

Estimates are the fatality rate will be between 0.5 % and 1.0%. Those estimates will be solidified in near term. The MSM will dispute the low number and insist it must be higher.

Vaccine may not be available until 2021. Surprisingly, it will not be inexpensive.

The election will be hard fought and vicious. Whoever loses will not take it gently. There will be trouble.

Schools that reopen will be the new battlegrounds for political forces. The needs of children to be together and learn in person will be disregarded by hysterics and doomsayers.

2020 will go down as one of the most tormented years in our history.

A man was asked "How long will this virus crisis continue?" He said "I don't know -- I'm a doctor, not a politician."

[Two Bills]

LOL The two respiratory specialist Doctors who wrote that commentary looked at all the available studies that tested masks against virus particles. Coronavirus is no different than any virus that transmit thru cough and sneeze droplets or fine particle aerosols. There is no new magic cloth mask technology that can block fine aerosol particles, only N95 can do that.

Filter efficiency was measured across a wide range of small particle sizes (0.02 to 1 µm) at 33 and 99 L/min. N95 respirators had efficiencies greater than 95% (as expected). For the entire range of particles tested, t-shirts had 10% efficiency, scarves 10% to 20%, cloth masks 10% to 30%, sweatshirts 20% to 40%, and towels 40%. All of the cloth masks and materials had near zero efficiency at 0.3 µm, a particle size that easily penetrates into the lungs.

Near zero efficiency :icon_wink:

If you think that cloth mask is protecting you from virus aerosols, go for it.

But still a % better than nothing at all.
Which for those who do not have the option to stay at home like you, and have to go out,it is at least some protection against droplets above the 0.3 particles.
Wearing a bullet proof vest, does not stop you getting shot in the leg!

[GoodLife]

But still a % better than nothing at all.
Which for those who do not have the option to stay at home like you, and have to go out,it is at least some protection against droplets above the 0.3 particles.
Wearing a bullet proof vest, does not stop you getting shot in the leg!

Yes, I agree they are better than nothing and if I had to enter buildings with people I would wear one. The safest choice is to not do it.

[Aloha1]

Well according to my crystal ball:

Infections will rise, and are likely near their peak, then decline. Hysterics will seek out places where there is some exception to the decline and proclaim that the end of civilization is near if we don't lockdown immediately, and forever.

Estimates are the fatality rate will be between 0.5 % and 1.0%. Those estimates will be solidified in near term. The MSM will dispute the low number and insist it must be higher.

Vaccine may not be available until 2021. Surprisingly, it will not be inexpensive.

The election will be hard fought and vicious. Whoever loses will not take it gently. There will be trouble.

Schools that reopen will be the new battlegrounds for political forces. The needs of children to be together and learn in person will be disregarded by hysterics and doomsayers.

2020 will go down as one of the most tormented years in our history.

A man was asked "How long will this virus crisis continue?" He said "I don't know -- I'm a doctor, not a politician."

Varada Nicto! FYI, in the script they spelled it with 2 a's (Klaatu).

[Byte1]

That the process for vaccine development should be transparent is the point that the director of the National Institutes for Health made on Meet the Press yesterday.

Interesting. So, private industry that pays enormous amounts of money on research and development, should turn over all their work to other countries that already ride on our coattails? And they should just absorb the cost of millions/billions of dollars? How many businesses would stay in business if they gave all their research away so others could make money off of them? If it was the Gov. that was doing all the research, I could possibly agree with sharing information, but not private industry. I am sure the folks that live off of the market would not like it so much if pharma was giving all their research away.

[Byte1]

[QUOTE=jmpalladino;1806304]

Sorry, the government will force people to take the vaccine, like it or not. They Will hold you down and give you the shot. This is clear from constitutional lawyers.

They say you can pass on a vaccine that will protect you (like the flu), but if a vaccine will protect others (Like the highly contagious Corona virus) you have no choice.

That’s what they say. Please don’t argue without posting your sources or personal constitutional credentials.

Maybe the Gov CAN force the population to take the vaccine, but they WON'T. It won't happen no matter how many screamers declare that others have to do it to protect them. I would also like to see your sources that say the GOV WILL force the population to take the vaccine.

[Byte1]

The whole herd idea is wrong and bizarro! It takes 60% positive cases to achieve "herd immunity". Florida has 14% today positive cases today. (St Pete has 9% because they went to masks). Sweden's overall deaths are 11 times neighboring Norway. Only 25% of Swedes in Stockholm have been exposed. They ADMIT that their "herd immunity" attempt did not work. Just Google that! But, all the charts in the world are not as significant as the fact that the US is #1 in the world for mishandling the CV Plague. We should only have about 60,000 deaths today. The US is currently # 5 in world ranking for deaths (and rising due to rising case). I don't understand the effort to misinform the Villiage people by poo - pooing the problem - what is the motivation for that? To kill as many Village people as possible?

You are assuming that anyone that has not been tested does not have the virus. You do not know how many have or had the virus and have never been tested. The more testing we do, the more positives we have and yet most of those tested have NO symptoms.

[coffeebean]

LOL The two respiratory specialist Doctors who wrote that commentary looked at all the available studies that tested masks against virus particles. Coronavirus is no different than any virus that transmit thru cough and sneeze droplets or fine particle aerosols. There is no new magic cloth mask technology that can block fine aerosol particles, only N95 can do that.

Filter efficiency was measured across a wide range of small particle sizes (0.02 to 1 µm) at 33 and 99 L/min. N95 respirators had efficiencies greater than 95% (as expected). For the entire range of particles tested, t-shirts had 10% efficiency, scarves 10% to 20%, cloth masks 10% to 30%, sweatshirts 20% to 40%, and towels 40%. All of the cloth masks and materials had near zero efficiency at 0.3 µm, a particle size that easily penetrates into the lungs.

Near zero efficiency :icon_wink:

If you think that cloth mask is protecting you from virus aerosols, go for it.

This article explains how cloth masks not only block droplets but block aerosols too.....

Cloth masks can block aerosol-sized particles, prevent Covid-19 spread - The Week (https://www.theweek.in/news/health/2020/05/27/Cloth-masks-can-block-aerosol-sized-particles-prevent-Covid-19-spread.html)

[coffeebean]

Goodlife.......One more point I would like to make about your post claiming cloth masks do not protect us against aerosols. I don't wear a mask to protect myself although there have been articles that claim there is a small degree of protection to the wearer. I wear a mask to protect others and that includes you. My mask blocks droplets and aerosols from escaping into the air. I just hope people around me wear a mask to protect me.

Universal masking will slow the spread of this virus and FINALLY we have some direction from President Trump that he wants us to wear masks. He said wearing a mask is not political; it is patriotic.

[GoodLife]

Goodlife.......One more point I would like to make about your post claiming cloth masks do not protect us against aerosols. I don't wear a mask to protect myself although there have been articles that claim there is a small degree of protection to the wearer. I wear a mask to protect others and that includes you. My mask blocks droplets and aerosols from escaping into the air. I just hope people around me wear a mask to protect me.

Universal masking will slow the spread of this virus and FINALLY we have some direction from President Trump that he wants us to wear masks. He said wearing a mask is not political; it is patriotic.

I take my cues from science, not politicians. Your cloth mask can block larger droplets from emitting to others, but does very little to block very small particles. Your breath is moist, in a short time the pores of the material become blocked by moisture and then your breath is exhaled around the edge of the mask. Cloth masks even when dry have pores much to large to block the small particles. This study by 2 experts looked at 52 studies of masks and found little evidence for efficient source control.

Commentary: In Mask Debate, Social Distancing Remains Priority | School of Public Health | University of Illinois at Chicago (https://publichealth.uic.edu/news-stories/commentary-masks-for-all-for-covid-19-not-based-on-sound-data/)

DR Fauci in a recent interview stated he would not get in an airplane or enter a restaurant, mask or not. Why do you think he says that?

Masks are better than nothing, but are not a replacement for social distancing. This is why I don't enter buildings other than home. Not worth the risk mask or not. I realize that people who work have no choice, but most of them are much younger than I am.

[coffeebean]

I take my cues from science, not politicians. Your cloth mask can block larger droplets from emitting to others, but does very little to block very small particles. Your breath is moist, in a short time the pores of the material become blocked by moisture and then your breath is exhaled around the edge of the mask. Cloth masks even when dry have pores much to large to block the small particles. This study by 2 experts looked at 52 studies of masks and found little evidence for efficient source control.

Commentary: In Mask Debate, Social Distancing Remains Priority | School of Public Health | University of Illinois at Chicago (https://publichealth.uic.edu/news-stories/commentary-masks-for-all-for-covid-19-not-based-on-sound-data/)

DR Fauci in a recent interview stated he would not get in an airplane or enter a restaurant, mask or not. Why do you think he says that?

Masks are better than nothing, but are not a replacement for social distancing. This is why I don't enter buildings other than home. Not worth the risk mask or not. I realize that people who work have no choice, but most of them are much younger than I am.

I read the entire article. I'm not convinced that cloth masks are pretty much worthless for source control. I've seen YouTube videos which show (using infrared cameras) how droplets and aerosols are expelled from a person's mouth and nose when not wearing a mask while the person was breathing and speaking in a normal tone. That same person, wearing a cloth mask, breathing and speaking expelled what appeared to be 98% less droplets and aerosols. That video convinced me that cloth masks will help to slow the spread of this vile virus. Two people, wearing masks, speaking to each other and distanced by at least 6 feet, makes me feel safe. That is all I ask during a pandemic.

Dr. Fauci is a national treasure but I would not take every single thing he says as gospel. Personally, I see no reason not to go into a restaurant when social distancing is guaranteed and all servers wear masks. I know there is risk but that is a risk hubby and I are willing to take. Our "social circle" consists of the two of us so we never sit at a table larger than a two top.

Getting on an airplane? That is not a risk I'm willing to take and hubby is also agreeable with that. Hopefully, our safety radar will change in the future because we love to cruise. And.....that is another risk we are not willing to take even when cruise ships begin to sail. We will wait for an effective and safe vaccine before we get on an airplane or a cruise ship.

[DON10E]

[QUOTE=DON10E;1806496]

Maybe the Gov CAN force the population to take the vaccine, but they WON'T. It won't happen no matter how many screamers declare that others have to do it to protect them. I would also like to see your sources that say the GOV WILL force the population to take the vaccine.

Don’t be so sure. There are a lot of things happening recently That I never thought I’d see.

[DON10E]

I read the entire article. I'm not convinced that cloth masks are pretty much worthless for source control. I've seen YouTube videos which show (using infrared cameras) how droplets and aerosols are expelled from a person's mouth and nose when not wearing a mask while the person was breathing and speaking in a normal tone. That same person, wearing a cloth mask, breathing and speaking expelled what appeared to be 98% less droplets and aerosols. That video convinced me that cloth masks will help to slow the spread of this vile virus. Two people, wearing masks, speaking to each other and distanced by at least 6 feet, makes me feel safe. That is all I ask during a pandemic.

Dr. Fauci is a national treasure but I would not take every single thing he says as gospel. Personally, I see no reason not to go into a restaurant when social distancing is guaranteed and all servers wear masks. I know there is risk but that is a risk hubby and I are willing to take. Our "social circle" consists of the two of us so we never sit at a table larger than a two top.

Getting on an airplane? That is not a risk I'm willing to take and hubby is also agreeable with that. Hopefully, our safety radar will change in the future because we love to cruise. And.....that is another risk we are not willing to take even when cruise ships begin to sail. We will wait for an effective and safe vaccine before we get on an airplane or a cruise ship.

The risk is not measured by whether you can contact the. Iris, but by whether it will kill you. The real risk exists for the vulnerable population with co-morbidities or advanced age. God help you if you’re trapped in a nursing home.

For the rest of us, we have almost total control over whether we get this or not.

Oh, and since 55% of the cases are in 6 counties of Florida (out of 66 total counties). Why do we insist on talking about “Florida”? A State is way too big to have one set of rules on this.

[GoodLife]

I read the entire article. I'm not convinced that cloth masks are pretty much worthless for source control. I've seen YouTube videos which show (using infrared cameras) how droplets and aerosols are expelled from a person's mouth and nose when not wearing a mask while the person was breathing and speaking in a normal tone. That same person, wearing a cloth mask, breathing and speaking expelled what appeared to be 98% less droplets and aerosols. That video convinced me that cloth masks will help to slow the spread of this vile virus. Two people, wearing masks, speaking to each other and distanced by at least 6 feet, makes me feel safe. That is all I ask during a pandemic.

Dr. Fauci is a national treasure but I would not take every single thing he says as gospel. Personally, I see no reason not to go into a restaurant when social distancing is guaranteed and all servers wear masks. I know there is risk but that is a risk hubby and I are willing to take. Our "social circle" consists of the two of us so we never sit at a table larger than a two top.

Getting on an airplane? That is not a risk I'm willing to take and hubby is also agreeable with that. Hopefully, our safety radar will change in the future because we love to cruise. And.....that is another risk we are not willing to take even when cruise ships begin to sail. We will wait for an effective and safe vaccine before we get on an airplane or a cruise ship.

I'm sorry but those youtube videos are worthless.

Here's a study of a meat processing plant in Germany where facemasks were mandatory. Everyone wore masks yet most within 8 meters of the mask wearing asymptomatic spreader were infected over 3 day period.

Investigation of a superspreading event preceding the largest meat processing plant-related SARS-Coronavirus 2 outbreak in Germany by Thomas Guenther, Manja Czech-Sioli, Daniela Indenbirken, Alexis Robitailles, Peter Tenhaken, Martin Exner, Matthias Ottinger, Nicole Fischer, Adam Grundhoff, Melanie Brinkmann :: SSRN (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3654517)

Look, masks help but are obviously not a guarantee of safety. That's why I choose not to go anywhere I might need one.

[coffeebean]

I'm sorry but those youtube videos are worthless.

Here's a study of a meat processing plant in Germany where facemasks were mandatory. Everyone wore masks yet most within 8 meters of the mask wearing asymptomatic spreader were infected over 3 day period.

Investigation of a superspreading event preceding the largest meat processing plant-related SARS-Coronavirus 2 outbreak in Germany by Thomas Guenther, Manja Czech-Sioli, Daniela Indenbirken, Alexis Robitailles, Peter Tenhaken, Martin Exner, Matthias Ottinger, Nicole Fischer, Adam Grundhoff, Melanie Brinkmann :: SSRN (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3654517)

Look, masks help but are obviously not a guarantee of safety. That's why I choose not to go anywhere I might need one.

I don't see on the investigative report that masks were mandatory or even worn. Did I miss that? I did see that many of the workers lived together in close quarters.

[jacksonbrown]

2020 will go down as one of the most tormented years in our history.

Only if the uniformed continue to read / view articles written by the main-stream-media.

Including the Associate Press (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press), which by the way, is used by our own Villages Daily Sun as a content provider.

[davem4616]

I have never really paid much heed to all this foreign intervention and fake news stuff.
But.
After a recent report on BBC news regarding Russian hacking into Covid research laboratories changed my attitude.
Within 50-60 posts in the Comments Section, pro Russian posts of denial, literaly poured in.
The general consensus was the Russian Bots had picked up the reference, and responded.
It was really noticeable how quickly they responded, so now I am even more sceptical of comments on public media.


I agree...the social media sites are being manipulated by special interests. The good news is that we have technology that is available to all, the bad news is that we have technology that is available to all

[GoodLife]

I don't see on the investigative report that masks were mandatory or even worn. Did I miss that? I did see that many of the workers lived together in close quarters.

If you read the actual study you will see that face masks were compulsory for all workers. The scientists also concluded that most or all of the infections occurred on the factory floor, where 60% of workers within 8 meters of the index case were stationed and infected.

Investigation of a superspreading event preceding the largest meat processing plant-related SARS-Coronavirus 2 outbreak in Germany by Thomas Guenther, Manja Czech-Sioli, Daniela Indenbirken, Alexis Robitailles, Peter Tenhaken, Martin Exner, Matthias Ottinger, Nicole Fischer, Adam Grundhoff, Melanie Brinkmann :: SSRN (https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=6420081000240021170130960290860881 18038013018017030052027120029127031089091090030112 00109900602502400305006901110107706809412202904208 70440010640790060910640051001250180260170781151000 30107070005031007097083124026005069010078113105007 104127031105019102&EXT=pdf)

[graciegirl]

I agree...the social media sites are being manipulated by special interests. The good news is that we have technology that is available to all, the bad news is that we have technology that is available to all

What a strong AND clear post and I walked on it. I think these very wise words should be read and taken to heart.

[GoodLife]

We are at least 5 months into this thing and as of today only about 2% of Floridians have tested positive for the virus. If you listen to the MSM you would think people are dropping like flies here. Florida now has more positive cases than New York, but New York has 5 times as many deaths. Yet the MSM has nothing but admiration for Cuomo, and nothing but criticism for DeSantis.

Going to a beach or a church is dangerous and irresponsible. Rioting, looting and destroying public monuments and buildings is safe expression of your first amendment rights. Defunding the police is a good idea. Defending your property and life from a mob gets you charged with a felony even though you never fired a shot. Catholic churches are set ablaze and depictions of Jesus Christ are defaced and destroyed as symbols of racism and oppression. Jesus didn't own slaves, nor did he advocate for slavery. Mohammed did yet mosques remain untouched.

We have added trillions of dollars to our national debt, destroyed tens of thousands of businesses and put tens of millions out of work. For what? Flattening the curve is like pressing down on a water balloon. You change the shape, but not the volume. In the meantime, those of us who are not rioting or looting or sick are arguing with each other over how we choose to cover a cough or a sneeze. (That's all a surgical face mask does. It doesn't filter inhalations. It just redirects your exhalations.)

I wouldn't have predicted any of this back in February. It's all too illogical and nonsensical. If past is prologue, the resolution is sure to be bizarre.

A comment that deserves being quoted. Especially the part about the balloon changing shape but not volume. As in New York, Sweden etc the virus keeps going till it hits a certain level. Lockdowns and masks can slow it down but not stop it.