golf rule change??

[ureout]

I thought a while back that an infraction was given to a golfer because someone called it in and then the announcers kept talking about it... I then thought that the rule was changed so that the player or players in the group had to see it there self and no more slo-mo replays?? like what happened with Jon Rahm yesterday

[bagboy]

I don't know what the rules are regarding infractions on television. My opinion is, no golfer should be penalized by anything shown or discussed during a broadcast. Not all golf shots are shown by all golfers, and certainly close ups and slow motion replays are reserved for the leaders. If the tournament officials are really concerned with fairness and accuracy, I suggest they review third round footage of Tony Final who did the exact same thing as Rahm, but conveniently wasn't noticed by the television crew. Under the same "rules", Finau should have been penalized, then disqualified for signing an incorrect score card. I say leave these matters up to the players and the official with each group.

[blueash]

I watched the broadcast. The TV announcers did not initially notice the ball movement. Apparently some official was watching and saw the movement. They then notified the announcers that the situation was being reviewed. Don't blame the announcers.

The rule is IMO foolish. But you have all kinds of golf rules that depend on the golfer self reporting. I understand why the PGA saw the movement as a violation of its very picky rule. I have no idea if Rahm was aware at the time. He was much more careful the second time he lowered his club into position.

My recollection is that violations will not be taken from viewers who see things on TV. This violation was from a golf official who saw it. I do wonder if the same penalty would have been imposed if it would have changed the outcome of the event.

[JGVillages]

The rule says the infraction must be able to be seen by the “Naked Eye”. Watching the close-up of Rahm’s ball movement, was not that any human naked eye that could have seen the infraction, unless that person had the eyes of a bald eagle.Yes technology showed the infraction, but certainly not visible to the naked eye. The other major issue I have is rules are in place to “Protect the Field”, but in reality do not protect the entire field. When TV coverage is limited to mostly the tournament leaders and covers only a small percentage of potential infractions then the field is being unfairly compromised. With the big $$$$$, FED EX standings, and rankings (world and others), riding on every shot made, fairly protecting the entire field is necessary and not being accomplished at this time on the PGA Tour.

[ureout]

I watched the broadcast. The TV announcers did not initially notice the ball movement. Apparently some official was watching and saw the movement. They then notified the announcers that the situation was being reviewed. Don't blame the announcers.

The rule is IMO foolish. But you have all kinds of golf rules that depend on the golfer self reporting. I understand why the PGA saw the movement as a violation of its very picky rule. I have no idea if Rahm was aware at the time. He was much more careful the second time he lowered his club into position.

My recollection is that violations will not be taken from viewers who see things on TV. This violation was from a golf official who saw it. I do wonder if the same penalty would have been imposed if it would have changed the outcome of the event.


I just re-watched the broadcast and there was NO rules official near him the only people near the green were both golfers, caddies, and TV workers ... there were 2 people who may have been officials 1 sitting 30 yds away on his cart and the other way over on the other side of the bunker, his caddie was about 10" away and the ball was so deep in the rough that unless you were standing directly over it would be impossible to see...

[tvbound]

I just re-watched the broadcast and there was NO rules official near him the only people near the green were both golfers, caddies, and TV workers ... there were 2 people who may have been officials 1 sitting 30 yds away on his cart and the other way over on the other side of the bunker, his caddie was about 10" away and the ball was so deep in the rough that unless you were standing directly over it would be impossible to see...

I believe the rules official was watching a replay on a monitor, not close enough to Rahm to see him address the ball, when they noticed it and investigated further. This is a tough one, because once it has been seen it can't be unseen. At the same time, not everyone has the same attention on them and so that's why calling our own fouls is necessary and what makes the game so great. I just really hope that Rahm didn't notice the ball had moved, but chose not to call the penalty on himself. Things like that will forever follow you, just ask Vijay Singh.

[chet2020]

Rahm was pretty aggressively shoving the grass down behind his ball and improving his lie all day on chips out of the rough. It's legal as long as his ball doesn't move. He did finally move his ball. He's taking the chance, he should be penalized when it backfires. However, I do agree that unless someone can see it with the naked eye, you have to let it go.

[Paul1934]

Brings to mind one of the closing scenes in ****** Vance, where Juna calls this same penalty on himself. If it ocellated no penalty, if “different” a penalty.
As to tamping the grass down, it is a penalty if you improve your swing line in front or behind the ball. Out of a hazard you may lightly ground the club at address.

[algi45]

Stupid rules and obnoxious officials are one of the factors that keep people from taking up golf.

[ureout]

Rahm was pretty aggressively shoving the grass down behind his ball and improving his lie all day on chips out of the rough. It's legal as long as his ball doesn't move. He did finally move his ball. He's taking the chance, he should be penalized when it backfires. However, I do agree that unless someone can see it with the naked eye, you have to let it go.

I agree... but i thought that they had changed the rule that a penalty would not be imposed if not caught with the naked eye??
apparently not?

[Miguel 1952]

I don't know what the rules are regarding infractions on television. My opinion is, no golfer should be penalized by anything shown or discussed during a broadcast. Not all golf shots are shown by all golfers, and certainly close ups and slow motion replays are reserved for the leaders. If the tournament officials are really concerned with fairness and accuracy, I suggest they review third round footage of Tony Final who did the exact same thing as Rahm, but conveniently wasn't noticed by the television crew. Under the same "rules", Finau should have been penalized, then disqualified for signing an incorrect score card. I say leave these matters up to the players and the official with each group.
You are exactly correct. Does this happen in baseball, basketball or football were a caller or tv crew can call in and penalize a player?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I watched the broadcast. The TV announcers did not initially notice the ball movement. Apparently some official was watching and saw the movement. They then notified the announcers that the situation was being reviewed. Don't blame the announcers.

The rule is IMO foolish. But you have all kinds of golf rules that depend on the golfer self reporting. I understand why the PGA saw the movement as a violation of its very picky rule. I have no idea if Rahm was aware at the time. He was much more careful the second time he lowered his club into position.

My recollection is that violations will not be taken from viewers who see things on TV. This violation was from a golf official who saw it. I do wonder if the same penalty would have been imposed if it would have changed the outcome of the event.

If an official saw the movement with his naked eye and then reported it to the PGA Tour staff, that would explain the ruling.

The new rules basically state that the violation has to be observed in person without the assistance of a high def camera.

Once the on site official reports it, then the Tour would be following the rule to use video footage to check on it.

For what it's worth, I noticed it on the live broadcast and wondered what might come of it.

[MrGolf]

In fact the cameraman captured but it was Nick Faldo one of the announcers was the one who pointed it out.

[dewilson58]

Nothing new..........Craig Stadler 30 years ago.

[retiredguy123]

You are exactly correct. Does this happen in baseball, basketball or football were a caller or tv crew can call in and penalize a player?
No, but I think that all fans in the football stadium should be required to be perfectly quiet while a play is being run.

[dewilson58]

You are exactly correct. Does this happen in baseball, basketball or football were a caller or tv crew can call in and penalize a player?


Apples & Oranges.


Baseball, Basketball, Football player TRY to get away with stuff. :a040: Golf is self-policing and a game of honor.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Rahm was pretty aggressively shoving the grass down behind his ball and improving his lie all day on chips out of the rough. It's legal as long as his ball doesn't move. He did finally move his ball. He's taking the chance, he should be penalized when it backfires. However, I do agree that unless someone can see it with the naked eye, you have to let it go.

I agree. When I saw him pressing down the grass behind the ball, I couldn't believe that he was being so careless. That is exactly the type of lie where this sort of thing can happen.

I don't know if the rules official was on site or watching on a monitor, but I noticed the ball move in the live broadcast. I was surprised that the announcers didn't mention it but maybe the felt that under the new rule that had best be quiet.

[Buckeye Bob]

"I have no idea if Rahm was aware at the time. He was much more careful the second time he lowered his club into position."

I find it extremely hard to accept that Rahm didn't see the ball move. He may have thought it oscillated however, at that point he should have called in a rules official.

[Buckeye Bob]

"I have no idea if Rahm was aware at the time. He was much more careful the second time he lowered his club into position."

I find it extremely hard to accept that Rahm didn't see the ball move. He may have thought it oscillated however, at that point he should have called in a rules official.

[retiredguy123]

A caddy on the tour once revealed that some golfers, when they have a bad lie, will ask the caddy for a No. 3 wood, with no intention to use it. They just want to place the club behind the ball and push down the grass to improve their lie. Then, they will switch clubs to make the shot.

[jlstree]

I thought that was a bogus call. It look to me that it could of been on the verge of settling on its own since the grass was to freaking high and thick.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I have played with retired professions and active professionals in several sports. I can say with certainty, that all professionals know where the grey areas are in the rules. Do some push the limits? yes, do some cheat, yes, which is why there are rules officials, referees, umpires, and judges. But not everyone cheats. Phil Nickleson stopped a moving putt in the most egregious and flagrant cheating attempt in golf in the US Open on Long Island. In soccer, the old saying is you had to be ahead by two goals to be comfortable, one for the opponent, and one for the referee. In golf, its one shot for the opponent and two shots for the rules officials. And just remember, a golf ball oscillating doesn't matter on amateur day unless there is money or a trophy on the line.

sportsguy

[ureout]

I have played with retired professions and active professionals in several sports. I can say with certainty, that all professionals know where the grey areas are in the rules. Do some push the limits? yes, do some cheat, yes, which is why there are rules officials, referees, umpires, and judges. But not everyone cheats. Phil Nickleson stopped a moving putt in the most egregious and flagrant cheating attempt in golf in the US Open on Long Island. In soccer, the old saying is you had to be ahead by two goals to be comfortable, one for the opponent, and one for the referee. In golf, its one shot for the opponent and two shots for the rules officials. And just remember, a golf ball oscillating doesn't matter on amateur day unless there is money or a trophy on the line.

sportsguy



I don't consider what Phil Mickelson did as cheating... yes he broke a rule but it was very blatant and done out of frustration he didn't try to hide it... now patrick reed in the bunker swiping away sand 3 times in his practice back swings with his club, I believe he cheated..

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I don't consider what Phil Mickelson did as cheating... yes he broke a rule but it was very blatant and done out of frustration he didn't try to hide it... now patrick reed in the bunker swiping away sand 3 times in his practice back swings with his club, I believe he cheated..

I agree. Phil was trying to make a statement and called the penalty on himself.

Reed's continuous denial, even after seeing the video evidence has lowered my opinion of him.

[retiredguy123]

I agree. Phil was trying to make a statement and called the penalty on himself.

Reed's continuous denial, even after seeing the video evidence has lowered my opinion of him.
I have the same feeling about Lexi Thompson in the 2017 ANA tournament. She was given a 4 stroke penalty for moving the ball on the green when a viewer called in to report it. But, a rule change prevented her from being disqualified from the tournament. I guess, under the new rule, she wouldn't have even been penalized. Why mark the ball from the side other than to move it? She didn't even clean it. Here is a video.

Lexi Thompson 2017 4-stroke penalty - YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6OsMWIiinv0)

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Reed, Lexi, etc is the reason why there are referees, judges, umpires, etc. As a former soccer referee, intent is a judgement about a player's motivation. Really doesn't matter, did a rules infraction occur, referees, judges, umpires are there for a purpose. Golf is the only sport i know of where the player has a responsibility for infractions, but there are still rules officials so really doesn't matter if a player didn't call it on himself. Also doesn't matter if the participant thinks it was a foul or not, official calls it, its a penalty, flag, stroke, whatever, and the player lives with it. Different points of view as always.

[tvbound]

I have the same feeling about Lexi Thompson in the 2017 ANA tournament. She was given a 4 stroke penalty for moving the ball on the green when a viewer called in to report it. But, a rule change prevented her from being disqualified from the tournament. I guess, under the new rule, she wouldn't have even been penalized. Why mark the ball from the side other than to move it? She didn't even clean it. Here is a video.

Lexi Thompson 2017 4-stroke penalty - YouTube (/watch?v=6OsMWIiinv0)

Lexi was my favorite women's player prior to this incident, but other than to move the ball over (away from a spike or other mark?), without even cleaning it, for a one foot putt, can't help but make me think that she knew what she was doing and did it on purpose.