Homeowners' Insurance:

[cj740@comcast.net]

Does everyone in TV have sinkhole insurance on HO policy? Recommendations for a provider of HO insurance? Thanks very much.

[Bilyclub]

Does everyone in TV have sinkhole insurance on HO policy? Recommendations for a provider of HO insurance? Thanks very much.


I do. State Farm is pricey, but some of the quotes I got were from what I considered sketchy companies who were cheaper.

[retiredguy123]

All Florida homeowners policies are required to have coverage for "catastrophic ground collapse". But, "sinkhole" coverage is optional and not always available for all houses. Basically, sinkhole insurance will cover any damage to your property caused by a sinkhole, even if your house is not damaged. Catastrophic ground collapse insurance will exclude some sinkhole damage, especially if you house is not damaged or destroyed.

[davem4616]

give Triple A a call...we have a HO policy with them that has sink hole coverage

doubtful that 'everyone' in TV has sinkhole coverage...that's a personal decision everyone makes for any number of reasons

[retiredguy123]

I have Progressive, which used to be called ASI, and I do have sinkhole coverage. However, I have no idea if they are any good, because I have never filed a claim. I think the only way to evaluate a homeowners insurance company is by how good they are at handling claims. If you go with the lowest price, you may find that they raise your premium by 30 percent next year.

[Stu from NYC]

We have it with Allstate. Hopefully will never find out how good it is.

Might consider a very tall ladder in case you wake up one morning underground.

[KRM0614]

Progressive insurance 460-/ yr incl sinkhole DO NOT USE THE VILLAGE BROKERS THEY MARK UP 100%

[Stu from NYC]

Progressive insurance 460-/ yr incl sinkhole DO NOT USE THE VILLAGE BROKERS THEY MARK UP 100%

Not so sure of that. We went with Allstate but Village Brokers was only about 10% higher.

[Lottoguy]

What is the AAA phone number of your insurance broker? Thanks.

[EdFNJ]

I have Traveler's insurance with sinkhole (w/10% deductible) and full coverages. Got it through Villages Insurance. Just had our 2nd renewal and was $760 for year which was an increase of about $6(six) dollars over last year. Of course size of home makes a difference and we have a 2/2 Colony so obviously a larger home would be more. Our renewal was July 1st and I did a LOT of comparison shopping comparing identical coverages and this was by far the lowest cost policy of all. Allstate was same price but NO SINKHOLE (other than legal requirements). They wanted a few hundred more to add the 10% ded sinkhole coverage. Progressive direct was $100 more without sinkhole so I went no further. I did drop Villages Ins for my auto and went with Geico. Long story there and posted elsewhere.

[JGVillages]

There are 2 types of sinkhole coverage. Catastrophic covers total loss. Non-catastrophic will cover damage that does not destroy the home but may cause some structural damage. Not all companies will offer non-catastrophic, but repairs can get expensive if you don’t have it. I have ASI/Progressive which offered it, and $500 deductible hurricane coverage (many others are 2%), so I have been hesitant to change providers even for minor premium savings.

[Marathon Man]

Progressive insurance 460-/ yr incl sinkhole DO NOT USE THE VILLAGE BROKERS THEY MARK UP 100%

Not mine. I did lots of comparison shopping, and then went with what Villages Insurance offered.

[Bjeanj]

Our homeowners policy covers catastrophic sinkholes. We found out that if we want the other type, we would have to pay half the cost of an inspection prior to obtaining the other sinkhole insurance. Well, we don’t know what that cost would be, nor did Villages Insurance. Then, if we got approved, we don’t know what this coverage would cost.

So, we’re in the process of mulling this over.

[Stu from NYC]

Our homeowners policy covers catastrophic sinkholes. We found out that if we want the other type, we would have to pay half the cost of an inspection prior to obtaining the other sinkhole insurance. Well, we don’t know what that cost would be, nor did Villages Insurance. Then, if we got approved, we don’t know what this coverage would cost.

So, we’re in the process of mulling this over.

Mull very carefully

[stevekennedy3]

Does everyone in TV have sinkhole insurance on HO policy? Recommendations for a provider of HO insurance? Thanks very much.
Try Amica. I did a thorough study about two years ago and found them best value. Great company, better coverage than most and the price is lower than Traveller's.

[JudyLife]

We have sinkhole with Safe Harbor

[mepoole]

Does everyone in TV have sinkhole insurance on HO policy? Recommendations for a provider of HO insurance? Thanks very much.

I do. Safe Harbor Insurance Co. It is optional, but I chose to take the coverage.

[Travelhunter]

We have it with Allstate. Hopefully will never find out how good it is.

Might consider a very tall ladder in case you wake up one morning underground.the
Allstate has extensive sinkhole coverage with the same deductible as you have on your dwelling The only company I was able to find that did not have a bid deductible

[noslices1]

I have American integrity insurance through the villages. My rate last year was $605. I received my renewal notice and the price went up to $1178. I have been shopping around and found that many insurance companies won’t ensure a home that is 15 years old that has not had the roof replaced and also if they have not replaced the water heater. I am changing to Farmer’s Insurance this year and am also replacing my 15 year old water heater. My roof was inspected and is still good for now.

[retiredguy123]

Our homeowners policy covers catastrophic sinkholes. We found out that if we want the other type, we would have to pay half the cost of an inspection prior to obtaining the other sinkhole insurance. Well, we don’t know what that cost would be, nor did Villages Insurance. Then, if we got approved, we don’t know what this coverage would cost.

So, we’re in the process of mulling this over.
I understand that, if you don't have the optional sinkhole coverage, your house will need to be condemned by the Government (county?) before the basic catastrophic coverage will pay for the damage to your house.

[bumpygreens]

Call Dees Insurance Group in Sarasota (941) 306-4524. They are brokers and can check policies and premiums through several companies. Our policy has sinkhole loss coverage with a 10% deductible. It added $110 to our annual premium, but worth it to me for the peace of mind.

[kendi]

I highly recommend that you get the extra sink hole coverage. We use Progressive. But if I remember correctly they told my husband that they actually go through USAA for the coverage. We've had USAA for auto and they are a good company. Personally I'd try USAA before Progressive. I'm not a fan of Progressive simply because they hassled me for a year after one of their auto policy holders rear ended me. Even tried to get me to release all my medical records to them and I had never claimed to be injured from the accident.

[Baywayric]

USAA, if you are eligible.

[newgirl]

I was told I did not need it where I am

[bobnyce]

give Triple A a call...we have a HO policy with them that has sink hole coverage

doubtful that 'everyone' in TV has sinkhole coverage...that's a personal decision everyone makes for any number of reasons
The legislature changed the law at the behest of insurance companies just a few years ago. Standard homeowner’s coverage for sinkhole damage requires your house to be uninhabitable. Therefore, any damage that doesn’t make it uninhabitable is your problem unless you buy extra coverage - at least that is how it was explained to me. So I went with AAA. It costs extra but does cover sinkhole damage that affects your house even if you can still live in it. Most companies will require a sinkhole inspection prior to giving coverage.

[bobnyce]

I have Traveler's insurance with sinkhole (w/10% deductible) and full coverages. Got it through Villages Insurance. Just had our 2nd renewal and was $760 for year which was an increase of about $6(six) dollars over last year. Of course size of home makes a difference and we have a 2/2 Colony so obviously a larger home would be more. Our renewal was July 1st and I did a LOT of comparison shopping comparing identical coverages and this was by far the lowest cost policy of all. Allstate was same price but NO SINKHOLE (other than legal requirements). They wanted a few hundred more to add the 10% ded sinkhole coverage. Progressive direct was $100 more without sinkhole so I went no further. I did drop Villages Ins for my auto and went with Geico. Long story there and posted elsewhere.
I did have The Villages Insurance and in 2018 they would not provide sinkhole coverage thus I had to go elsewhere - read your policy carefully. It may require that your home is uninhabitable.

[Wrhobson]

Does everyone in TV have sinkhole insurance on HO policy? Recommendations for a provider of HO insurance? Thanks very much.

When my HO policy was up for renewal late last year (at about a 25% bump) I shopped around and found "Universal Insurance Company of North America" out of Sarasota. I used the Strassman Insurance Group out of Lake Mary as the agent (407-333-4553). The premium was 40% less than my previous carrier and they stepped up to the plate and popped for a reroof recently. It doesn't get much better than that. I'll re-up with them no matter what.

[LoisR]

I do. State Farm is pricey, but some of the quotes I got were from what I considered sketchy companies who were cheaper.
Recently switched from Progressive to Travelers. Better pricing. Ask Village Insurance.

[LoisR]

Recently switched from Progressive to Travelers. Better pricing. Ask Village Insurance.

[SharonW]

I was told I did not need it where I am

Get that in writing with signature of agent who told you that

[Stu from NYC]

Get that in writing with signature of agent who told you that

Good advise

[retiredguy123]

I wouldn't spend a lot of time shopping for a low rate on homeowners insurance, unless you want to switch companies every year. Insurance companies are notorious for raising your rate as much as 40 percent when you renew. Also, they do not reward customer loyalty. Just the opposite. If you are a loyal customer for many years, you are more likely to get a huge premium increase than a new customer. They call it "price optimization".

[SharonW]

I am a retired insurance agent and reading these comments cause me to be very concerned that most have not been explained correctly what cat ground collapse covers or what sinkhole coverage actually covers. I strongly recommend you call and set up a review with your agent and get a copy of the actual policy That explains cat group collapse and a copy of the sinkhole endorsement.

The coverage is the same regardless of what company you purchase from. The only difference is your out of pocket deductible. When the State of Florida changed automatic coverage to catastrophic ground collapse and made sinkhole an endorsement that you have to purchase they offered all companies an option as to how they filed the sinkhole deductible that they would offer. They got to chose a flat 10% of Dwelling coverage or they could chose the all perils deductible. The companies then calculated and filed the rates with the State of Florida based on the deductible offered through their state filing. Only a few companies filed the all perils deductible and the rest 10%. I know two companies, Allstate and State Farm filed all perils deductible which means if you have a $500.00 or $1000.00 deductible your sinkhole deductible will be same. Of course your premium will be higher because in the event of a sinkhole claim your out of pocket is much lower.

Example: home insured for $250,000 with a 10% deductible means you pay $25,000 deductible. If you have a $1000 all perils deductible you only pay $1000.

Ask your agent if you have a sinkhole claim how long you have to come up with that deductible? Ask your agent if land is covered if no sinkhole damage to structure? (Remember you are insuring your structure not the land) You can always call the department of insurance in Tallahassee and ask the question.

It bothers me that agents are not explainIng coverages. One other thing, will your agent help you if you have a claim or just transfer you to a claims department? Find an agent who will walk you through claims process and help you if you need help.

[retiredguy123]

I am a retired insurance agent and reading these comments cause me to be very concerned that most have not been explained correctly what cat ground collapse covers or what sinkhole coverage actually covers. I strongly recommend you call and set up a review with your agent and get a copy of the actual policy That explains cat group collapse and a copy of the sinkhole endorsement.

The coverage is the same regardless of what company you purchase from. The only difference is your out of pocket deductible. When the State of Florida changed automatic coverage to catastrophic ground collapse and made sinkhole an endorsement that you have to purchase they offered all companies an option as to how they filed the sinkhole deductible that they would offer. They got to chose a flat 10% of Dwelling coverage or they could chose the all perils deductible. The companies then calculated and filed the rates with the State of Florida based on the deductible offered through their state filing. Only a few companies filed the all perils deductible and the rest 10%. I know two companies, Allstate and State Farm filed all perils deductible which means if you have a $500.00 or $1000.00 deductible your sinkhole deductible will be same. Of course your premium will be higher because in the event of a sinkhole claim your out of pocket is much lower.

Example: home insured for $250,000 with a 10% deductible means you pay $25,000 deductible. If you have a $1000 all perils deductible you only pay $1000.

Ask your agent if you have a sinkhole claim how long you have to come up with that deductible? Ask your agent if land is covered if no sinkhole damage to structure? (Remember you are insuring your structure not the land) You can always call the department of insurance in Tallahassee and ask the question.

It bothers me that agents are not explainIng coverages. One other thing, will your agent help you if you have a claim or just transfer you to a claims department? Find an agent who will walk you through claims process and help you if you need help.
Some agents are not explaining the coverage because they don't understand it themselves. I wouldn't trust an agent to explain it properly. When I bought my house, I got contradictory and confusing information from several insurance agents. My Allstate auto insurance agent quoted me a homeowners policy from a company in Orlando and he told me that it included sinkhole coverage. I was suspicious, so I called the company directly, and found out that it did not have sinkhole coverage. I think the policy needs to include the word "sinkhole" on the declaration page, or you don't have the coverage. But, many insurance agents are not capable of fully explaining the policies they sell. You need to actually read the policy. Buyer beware.

[SharonW]

That’s why you ask for copy of endorsement and ask questions. An agent who knows what they are doing should be able to highlight on endorsement and explain. Bottom line is Cat ground collapse must be sudden and immediate structure damage. Home must Also be condemned by county and not livable.

Sinkhole has to have structural damage. Structure does not have to be condemned. Sinkhole does not have to be sudden and immediate damage. Could open and then grow and eventually damage your structure.

Bottom line everyone should purchase sinkhole coverage because it is the broadest coverage you can have to protect your investment. Choose a deductible you feel you can be comfortable paying if you were to have a claim.

[bandsdavis]

Our homeowners policy covers catastrophic sinkholes. We found out that if we want the other type, we would have to pay half the cost of an inspection prior to obtaining the other sinkhole insurance. Well, we don’t know what that cost would be, nor did Villages Insurance. Then, if we got approved, we don’t know what this coverage would cost.

So, we’re in the process of mulling this over.

We just switched to Allstate and got the Sinkhole rider (over and above the catastrophic coverage) with a $1,000 deductible for $64 per year. No inspection required. FYI, our house was built in 2009.

[will1546]

I have ASI for a villa which I rent out and premium jumped $1000 to $1400!

[Cupcake57]

I was told I did not need it where I am

Maybe you are confusing sinkhole coverage with flood; they go by a map to tell if you need flood coverage.

[capecoralbill]

We just switched to Allstate and got the Sinkhole rider (over and above the catastrophic coverage) with a $1,000 deductible for $64 per year. No inspection required. FYI, our house was built in 2009.

I know certain areas of the villages are 'red lined' and are not insurable against a certain type of sinkhole that does not affect the house.
Too bad the Developer does not set up a fund to help out, it's his reputation, so be it.

[SharonW]

Never heard that in all my years writing insurance. May I ask what kind of sinkhole you are talking about? A sinkhole is a sinkhole.

[capecoralbill]

Types of sinkholes:
One Type:
Included in almost all policies:
Catastrophic ground cover collapse is defined as geological activity that results in all of the following: 1). The abrupt collapse of the ground cover; 2). A depression in the ground cover clearly visible to the naked eye; 3). Structural damage to the building including the foundation; and 4). The "insured structure being condemned and ordered to be vacated" by the government agency authorized by law to issue such an order for that structure.

The Other type:
Extra cost, and may not be available, due to red-lining.
This means that if your home is damaged by sinkhole activity, but does not meet all four criteria for catastrophic ground cover collapse for instance, you may have foundation cracks, but the home is still livable your insurance may not pay for the damage if you do not have "extra cost" ," Non catastrophic"sinkhole coverage.

[Ladygolfer93]

That's for sure. I wanted my agent to put me with the SAME company for home and auto; a company I would recognize. But, when I Moved to Florida, agent insisted I NOT do that and put HOI with American Integrity. Never had a home or an auto claim, in Florida or in other states, however, this American Integrity raised my home owner insurance by $700 a ONE billing... mind you NEVER an inquiry, never a claim, nothing. Also have never run into a state like this where the "agent" is a kind of shadow person, one you never see, one who never checks with you once a year or so to go over things, very impersonal here. My "agent" told me not to even call his office about payment, "just go to the website of the company and pay your bill there" ! ! Dah ? I assume this person just wants a commission but other wise does not want any kind of relationship..... LOL ! What a business practice. Wonder what would happen if I ever need to actually USE the insurance, had an actual claim ? Scary thought !

[SharonW]

Types of sinkholes:
One Type:
Included in almost all policies:
Catastrophic ground cover collapse is defined as geological activity that results in all of the following: 1). The abrupt collapse of the ground cover; 2). A depression in the ground cover clearly visible to the naked eye; 3). Structural damage to the building including the foundation; and 4). The "insured structure being condemned and ordered to be vacated" by the government agency authorized by law to issue such an order for that structure.

The Other type:
Extra cost, and may not be available, due to red-lining.
This means that if your home is damaged by sinkhole activity, but does not meet all four criteria for catastrophic ground cover collapse for instance, you may have foundation cracks, but the home is still livable your insurance may not pay for the damage if you do not have sinkhole coverage.


Where did you copy this wording?

Cat ground collapse is included in all property policies written in Florida and deductible is all perils deductible.

Actual claim example: sinkhole opened at corner of home where garage is located. Did a little damage to corner slab. Was not condemned by county so did not qualify for cat ground collapse. Insured did not have sinkhole coverage. Out of pocket was over $15,000 to have repaired. If they had sinkhole with 10% deductible, cost would have been below deductible so out of pocket would of been same. If they had sinkhole with a $500 or $1000 deductible repairs would have been done with not much out of pocket.

Sinkhole is added by endorsement and extra premium is charged. The endorsement coverage is the same regardless of what company offers. Only differences is out of pocket deductible State of Florida gave companies one of two options when the companies filed their state rates and thE option is the deductible. They could choose 10% of dwelling amount insured or the all perils deductible. Only a few companies elected to offer all perils deductible Allstate and State Farm are the two companies I know of that offer all perils deductible.

What most do not know is that one of the biggest concerns of property companies in Florida now is the age of your roof. Due to so many claims on roofs In Florida many companies now start looking at roofs at 10 years of age to qualify for a new policy. When you have a huge premium increase you will finD it difficult to find a new home policy if your roof is older than 10 years old. Sinkhole coverage is not difficult to get but qualifying For a home policy do to the roof age is the hurdle in today’s market.

[Carla B]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, SharonW. I'm curious as to why so many roof replacements are covered by insurance. For what reasons?

[SharonW]

The sad thing about claims is that insurance companies will settle a claim vs legally challenging because the settlement is less than cost to legally challenge.

[retiredguy123]

The sad thing about claims is that insurance companies will settle a claim vs legally challenging because the settlement is less than cost to legally challenge.
Are you sure? I find it difficult to believe that the fly-by-night roofers who are going door to door in The Villages are prepared to take a large insurance company to court. Do you have any specific evidence that the insurance companies are willing to pay thousands of dollars to replace a roof because they are afraid of a small local roofer taking them to court over a bogus claim?

[Lbmb24101]

Sharonw
Your pist was veeeery helpful
Thanks!

[Lbmb24101]

Post

[SharonW]

Our homeowners policy covers catastrophic sinkholes. We found out that if we want the other type, we would have to pay half the cost of an inspection prior to obtaining the other sinkhole insurance. Well, we don’t know what that cost would be, nor did Villages Insurance. Then, if we got approved, we don’t know what this coverage would cost.

So, we’re in the process of mulling this over.

There are companies that will endorse coverage. No they do not require you pay for inspection!

[SharonW]

Does everyone in TV have sinkhole insurance on HO policy? Recommendations for a provider of HO insurance? Thanks very much.

Most all companies offer sinkhole. Call and talk to Stephanie Winfrey at 352-259-3825.

If your home qualifies (based on age built and roof age)she can offer with deductible as low as $500.00. She also has companies that offer the 10% deductible. Very knowledgeable agent and very honest.

[SharonW]

All Florida homeowners policies are required to have coverage for "catastrophic ground collapse". But, "sinkhole" coverage is optional and not always available for all houses. Basically, sinkhole insurance will cover any damage to your property caused by a sinkhole, even if your house is not damaged. Catastrophic ground collapse insurance will exclude some sinkhole damage, especially if you house is not damaged or destroyed.


Not true. There must be damage to structure. Land is not covered.

[SharonW]

Are you sure? I find it difficult to believe that the fly-by-night roofers who are going door to door in The Villages are prepared to take a large insurance company to court. Do you have any specific evidence that the insurance companies are willing to pay thousands of dollars to replace a roof because they are afraid of a small local roofer taking them to court over a bogus claim?

First of all the roofer is not the insured you are. 2nd, there are lawyers who will Sue insurance companies on behalf of the insured every day. No different than a liability claim. This is what they do for a living.

Yes, it happens everyday. Companies will settle to keep cost down. Everyone complains about premium increases but have no idea the cost vs claims paid out.

Example: $250,000 insured 1800 square foot home. Roof replacement around $10,000. You pay an annual premium of $800.00. Deductible $1000. Company pays out $9,000.

9,000 divided by 809 = 11.25 Years of premium. Multiply that by a neighborhood of homes. Throw in wind, sinkhole, lightning, water claims etc. that is just property claims.

[retiredguy123]

First of all the roofer is not the insured you are. 2nd, there are lawyers who will Sue insurance companies on behalf of the insured every day. No different than a liability claim. This is what they do for a living.

Yes, it happens everyday. Companies will settle to keep cost down. Everyone complains about premium increases but have no idea the cost vs claims paid out.

Example: $250,000 insured 1800 square foot home. Roof replacement around $10,000. You pay an annual premium of $800.00. Deductible $1000. Company pays out $9,000.

9,000 divided by 809 = 11.25 Years of premium. Multiply that by a neighborhood of homes. Throw in wind, sinkhole, lightning, water claims etc. that is just property claims.
That doesn't answer my question. Why would an insurance company pay $9,000 for a claim that has no merit? Most people are not going to hire a lawyer to sue an insurance company. There are a lot of roofs being replaced in The Villages that were not totally damaged by wind. Many of them only have minor damage or none at all.

[SharonW]

That doesn't answer my question. Why would an insurance company pay $9,000 for a claim that has no merit? Most people are not going to hire a lawyer to sue an insurance company. There are a lot of roofs being replaced in The Villages that were not totally damaged by wind. Many of them only have minor damage or none at all.

People do hire lawyers all the time. Lawyers get a % of what they collect. Happens every day. Roofers tell the insured to call so and so attorney. Have you seen the ads on TV? There are agencies in The Villages that write lots of home policies. Each year the insurance company gives them their loss ratio. Claims paid vs premium collected. Many have over 100% loss ratio. Zero profit.

When I was an agent I had clients who called to report a claim and said they hired an attorney. I asked once, Why would you do that before even turning in the claim? There answer, “That is what they tell you to do on TV.”

[SharonW]

It cost the company less out of pocket to settle a claim than to Drag out a case in court.

[retiredguy123]

It cost the company less out of pocket to settle a claim than to Drag out a case in court.
I guess we just disagree. I don't think most homeowners would hire a lawyer to sue their insurance company for a roofing claim that has little or no merit. I surely wouldn't, and most honest people wouldn't either. The normal process is for the insurance company to send out an adjuster to determine if the roof damage was caused by a weather event. The adjusters are mostly fair and will approve valid claims and reject bogus claims. In my experience, that is the normal process. People don't sue "all the time". Insurance companies cannot afford to pay meritless claims, but they will pay valid claims. This has also been confirmed by my insurance agent. I would suggest that, if you think your roof has been damaged by weather, you should contact your insurance company. Do not allow a door-to-door roofer to inspect your roof or sign an "assignment of benefits" agreement that they present to you. And, don't hire a lawyer unless you really think you are being cheated. The vast majority of issues can be handled without a lawyer or a shyster roofer.

[SharonW]

I agree with most of what you have said but you would be surprised how many do hire attorney. Times have changed. It is sad.