An age of greater transparency - repairing the Polices image

[skarra]

Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH3puMC23B4) is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.

[billethkid]

Nothing wrong with police image.
The focus by the media, special interest groups and politicians on the isolated cases to further an agenda.

Once again the general membership/majority is made to look/appear as needing fixing.

Go after the isolated cases to come up to the standards of the MAJORITY or throw them out. The real problem?

The dudds and incompetence few and bad actors are protected.

Fix the real problem!!

[dewilson58]

Saw a crazy number the other day.............Law Enforcement have 370,000,000 interactions with the public every year.


Given that number, and given the number of bad interactions........the "bad image" is all fabricated.

[manaboutown]

Being an LEO must be a very frustrating occupation. You work hard, risking life and limb to arrest violent felons, and the next thing you know you encounter them out on the street again committing more crimes because the court system released them! God bless our LEOs!

[graciegirl]

Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH3puMC23B4) is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.

I loved the show LivePD. It was my go to wind down therapy and it gave great insight into eight teams of Law Enforcement men and women answering "selected" calls in eight places across the country. I loved to hear rascals called gentlemen and female in descriptions. (they didn't refer to "females ever as ladies) maybe with advice from the women's movement?. I saw that they would distance the two people involved in domestic violence and interview each out of sight and hearing of the other. They would go first to a situation of irrational behavior to secure the situation for those in the medical field. I OFTEN thought that their methods of restraint were justified entirely. I am prejudiced toward the side of the police. I am prejudiced toward following rules. I am prejudiced in believing that you are far better off not needing the police so behave and act right. I am completely surprised that LivePD was shut down by A&E. It was the most watched series of it's kind.

I am also surprised by the selections in MSN News on our computers that deluge us with BLM rhetoric. I feel manipulated and controlled and I don't like it. I do not think that BLM has much of anything to do with equality and fairness or respect. I think it is a tool of some kind to increase tension and anger.

I hope that wasn't political. I don't want to be distanced from this forum. It is a source of great diversion being home all of the time during this pandemic.

[dewilson58]

Being an LEO must be a very frustrating occupation. You work hard, risking life and limb to arrest violent felons, and the next thing you know you encounter them out on the street again committing more crimes because the court system released them! God bless our LEOs!


not sure why anyone would start in LE these days

[Bikeracer2009]

Youtube does have a lot of videos of cops behaving badly. There's also a lot of videos where the cop changes his attitude once he sees or is informed that the person has a dashcam. That "no seatbelt" ticket becomes a warning when he's told that it was always on and I have a dashcam that also records inside to prove it.

My dashcam has gotten me out of a few bad tickets. The judge was not happy to see my videos. In one case an officer in DC pulled me over for doing 110 mph in the HOV lane on my motorcycle. He was in an unmarked car with no radar. The video clearly showed me riding in traffic at the posted speed limit. The officer was berated by the judge.
A second encounter was on i66 outside DC. I was in the slow lane and a BMW flew past me and took the exit. On the other side of the overpass was a new officer with his sergeant. They pulled me over for doing 20 over the limit. I explained what happened and that I had a dashcam. I got him on video telling me he believed me but he had to write the ticket anyway because his sergeant was making him.
The judge was not happy with this reasoning and really laid into him.

Before the dashcam was popular I got so many tickets that I lost my license for a year. Luckily I was in the Army during this time. I was never speeding but I was young and in most cases I had a black friend in the car. When you grow up poor you see the police differently if they're taking your paychecks.

I don't support defunding the police and appreciate them. They have the only job that have people trying to kill them on a regular basis. They're true heroes in my book despite my interactions with the bad ones.

I support whatever it takes to get rid of the few bad eggs.

[billethkid]

175 views.....6 posts.

I suppose this could be viewed as an example of the silent majority.....being silent?

If folks do not participate when anonymous, most certainly can't expect anymore when there is a need to stand and be counted.

:lipsrsealed:

:sad:

[skarra]

Saw a crazy number the other day.............Law Enforcement have 370,000,000 interactions with the public every year.


Given that number, and given the number of bad interactions........the "bad image" is all fabricated.


Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black. These videos give us a unique opportunity to actually collect that data. And the video was not fabricated, and I've no idea what the fabricated numbers are that you refer to.

If you watched that video (I suspect few did), the unfortunate 18 year old black kid has his hands on the steering wheel when the officer goes up to him - as if though he has been taught by his parents to do that in order to avoid being shot. Does anyone here feel like they need to do that? It really makes one want to cry seeing how badly he is treated by the people with the job of protecting us.

Most of us are white and privileged, and minorities sadly are typically the opposite. Bad cops maybe are jaded by the crime they see, but if they are treating people like the way he did in that video (and has the gall to ask that poor kid why the bad impression of police) he needs to find another job. And if he doesn't want to leave, then he becomes our problem - a really BIG problem.

I get the BLM movement - it's about how their lives and outlooks are so much different from ours due solely to their financial status and color of their skin. There's been a very long history of no level playing field that contributes to that - and it will take numerous generations to overcome what has been done to them. Originally I too was in the All Lives Matter camp, but once I got the idea of what this is all about BLM makes perfect sense and the other "matters" are designed as distractions to have us move along and not do anything. If we truly care about our fellow human beings, it is important to take this first step of at least acknowledging that we have a problem.

I'd like to add to the comment about the dashcam video. I have one and have been stopped once in the last 7 years. The officer definitely took note of it and was super nice. Maybe it was because of the camera which he definitely noticed, or because I was white driving a Lexus in an upscale neighborhood one town away from home, or maybe he was a believer in good community relations - upon reflection I think the latter and a combination. But I suspect the camera did help.

I'm so grateful for the body cam and phones in general. Without them George Floyd would have been just another "resisting arrest" death. I wish there were more cameras around during the times of Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and so many of the other creeps who got away with their crimes for so long.

[dewilson58]

Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black.


200'ish blacks were killed by LEO last year.
400'ish whites were killed by LEO last year.
Of the 200'ish, all by 14 had guns.
Of the 14, I don't know how many were resisting arrest and fighting an officer.


Not seeing LEO problem or a racial issue.

[billethkid]

Simple question for those concerned about the police' behavior.

How many thought there was a problem before the current onslaught by special interest and minority groups amplified 24/7 by the media?

How many bad cops have you run into in your life time?

For starters.

It is nothing but a hyped up prejudice by those with a specific agenda.....which has nothing to do with the health and welfare of the 98+% of us that support law enforcement.

[Fredman]

I loved the show LivePD. It was my go to wind down therapy and it gave great insight into eight teams of Law Enforcement men and women answering "selected" calls in eight places across the country. I loved to hear rascals called gentlemen and female in descriptions. (they didn't refer to "females ever as ladies) maybe with advice from the women's movement?. I saw that they would distance the two people involved in domestic violence and interview each out of sight and hearing of the other. They would go first to a situation of irrational behavior to secure the situation for those in the medical field. I OFTEN thought that their methods of restraint were justified entirely. I am prejudiced toward the side of the police. I am prejudiced toward following rules. I am prejudiced in believing that you are far better off not needing the police so behave and act right. I am completely surprised that LivePD was shut down by A&E. It was the most watched series of it's kind.

I am also surprised by the selections in MSN News on our computers that deluge us with BLM rhetoric. I feel manipulated and controlled and I don't like it. I do not think that BLM has much of anything to do with equality and fairness or respect. I think it is a tool of some kind to increase tension and anger.

I hope that wasn't political. I don't want to be distanced from this forum. It is a source of great diversion being home all of the time during this pandemic.

Completely agree

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

175 views.....6 posts.

I suppose this could be viewed as an example of the silent majority.....being silent?

If folks do not participate when anonymous, most certainly can't expect anymore when there is a need to stand and be counted.

:lipsrsealed:

:sad:

I'll participate. I was worried that it'd be one of those horrible cell phone videos that shows police being brutally violent and threatening to kill or tasering someone who wasn't making attempts to be violent or resisting (there are bunches of those and they're horrifying and I avoid watching them).

This was incredibly tame (comparatively speaking), while at the same time demonstrating CLEARLY why police have earned a poor reputation in some areas of cities and states throughout the country. When they handcuffed him I wished at that time I could've jumped through the computer monitor and protected that kid. Those police know damned well why a young black male in a poor neighborhood would be nervous about being pulled over by a police officer. It's no secret...but they're baiting him, hoping he'll get upset - pushing him to get upset so they'd have a reason to arrest him. That's why they asked the kid why he was acting nervous. They knew the answer before they asked it. They were just hoping for a "reaction."

This is a TYPICAL incident in these neighborhoods. Young black men who are just going to and from work or school, who aren't thugs, don't have drugs, alcohol, or weapons in their vehicles, being stopped by the police for minor infractions that the police escalate through very intentional lines of questioning, into "incidents" that end up with searches - and if the victims (that's what they are - they are victims of the police) get upset - they are arrested.

I've hung out in poor neighborhoods. Heck, I've slept in a graveyard with homeless people, and in a dilapidated condemned building that had a hole in the roof and plastic sheeting over the bed to keep the mattress from soaking when it rained.

Most of the folks living in them are trying to make the best of their situation, and hopefully get out of it. Yes there are thugs, and drugs, and alcohol, and weapons. But most of these people are not thugs, into drugs, alcohol, or killing each other. It makes me sick to my stomach to see the ones who are doing nothing wrong (other than a wide turn - seriously?), being singled out and manhandled and accused and treated like scum, because of the few who actually deserve the scrutiny.

Ask yourselves - when was the last time you even noticed whether or not you were making a "wide turn?" And when was the last time you were pulled over for such a minor infraction? You know minorities get pulled over regularly for failing to signal? For not using their turn signal. It happens. Every single day. Meanwhile, the rest of us who aren't minorities, forget to turn the signal, and then when we remember to use it, forget to turn it off, we roll through stop signs, we don't pull over immediately when an ambulance is trying to pass, we do all kinds of things we aren't supposed to do - and rarely, if ever, get pulled over for it.

SO there you have it. That's my participation piece. This is why the police need their reputation to be repaired. Because there are kids with beautiful smiles and bright futures being bullied and manhandled by cops who think that those smiles and futures are meaningless if their skin is darker than theirs.

[camaguey48]

Thank a police officer for the work they do. I do it every time an opportunity arises because they need our support and respect. We must not allow the propaganda from the media to berate and attack our front line of law and order. There are bad officers. I'll grant you that, but they are a small, small minority and they will be held responsible for the damage they have done to their profession and to the people they are supposed to serve and protect.
The silent majority must be silent no more. VOTE.

[Byte1]

Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH3puMC23B4) is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.

So job evaluations should be performed by NON-law enforcement individuals, that know nothing of police work? Untrained civilians should police the police? I can see how some that are ignorant of the difficult job that law enforcement performs could decide that Social Services is better equipped to handle the job of law enforcement. If not so sad, this would warrant a giant fit of laughter.

News flask: Bad behavior by the police is quickly weeded out. Every heard of Internal Affairs. They are hardly protecting "bad" police officers, even though they are supposedly their own.

[Byte1]

Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black. These videos give us a unique opportunity to actually collect that data. And the video was not fabricated, and I've no idea what the fabricated numbers are that you refer to.

If you watched that video (I suspect few did), the unfortunate 18 year old black kid has his hands on the steering wheel when the officer goes up to him - as if though he has been taught by his parents to do that in order to avoid being shot. Does anyone here feel like they need to do that? It really makes one want to cry seeing how badly he is treated by the people with the job of protecting us.

Most of us are white and privileged, and minorities sadly are typically the opposite. Bad cops maybe are jaded by the crime they see, but if they are treating people like the way he did in that video (and has the gall to ask that poor kid why the bad impression of police) he needs to find another job. And if he doesn't want to leave, then he becomes our problem - a really BIG problem.

I get the BLM movement - it's about how their lives and outlooks are so much different from ours due solely to their financial status and color of their skin. There's been a very long history of no level playing field that contributes to that - and it will take numerous generations to overcome what has been done to them. Originally I too was in the All Lives Matter camp, but once I got the idea of what this is all about BLM makes perfect sense and the other "matters" are designed as distractions to have us move along and not do anything. If we truly care about our fellow human beings, it is important to take this first step of at least acknowledging that we have a problem.

I'd like to add to the comment about the dashcam video. I have one and have been stopped once in the last 7 years. The officer definitely took note of it and was super nice. Maybe it was because of the camera which he definitely noticed, or because I was white driving a Lexus in an upscale neighborhood one town away from home, or maybe he was a believer in good community relations - upon reflection I think the latter and a combination. But I suspect the camera did help.

I'm so grateful for the body cam and phones in general. Without them George Floyd would have been just another "resisting arrest" death. I wish there were more cameras around during the times of Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and so many of the other creeps who got away with their crimes for so long.

"White privileged?" Right, sure, uh huh. I don't know too many of them, but the ones that support BLM and Occupy Wall St cretins may be "privileged."
George Floyd incident was unfortunate and may have been a mistake rather than motivated by racism or hate. Since I do not know all the evidence or background, I can only give the COPs the benefit of doubt, considering Floyd's record. A record does hold a lot of credence, until someone proves otherwise. Amateur videos do not always tell the complete story, regardless of what some factions wish to assume and exploit.

[Byte1]

Youtube does have a lot of videos of cops behaving badly. There's also a lot of videos where the cop changes his attitude once he sees or is informed that the person has a dashcam. That "no seatbelt" ticket becomes a warning when he's told that it was always on and I have a dashcam that also records inside to prove it.

My dashcam has gotten me out of a few bad tickets. The judge was not happy to see my videos. In one case an officer in DC pulled me over for doing 110 mph in the HOV lane on my motorcycle. He was in an unmarked car with no radar. The video clearly showed me riding in traffic at the posted speed limit. The officer was berated by the judge.
A second encounter was on i66 outside DC. I was in the slow lane and a BMW flew past me and took the exit. On the other side of the overpass was a new officer with his sergeant. They pulled me over for doing 20 over the limit. I explained what happened and that I had a dashcam. I got him on video telling me he believed me but he had to write the ticket anyway because his sergeant was making him.
The judge was not happy with this reasoning and really laid into him.

Before the dashcam was popular I got so many tickets that I lost my license for a year. Luckily I was in the Army during this time. I was never speeding but I was young and in most cases I had a black friend in the car. When you grow up poor you see the police differently if they're taking your paychecks.

I don't support defunding the police and appreciate them. They have the only job that have people trying to kill them on a regular basis. They're true heroes in my book despite my interactions with the bad ones.

I support whatever it takes to get rid of the few bad eggs.

In my many decades on this earth, I have had less encounters with law enforcement than I can count on one hand. Of the two tickets I received in my lifetime, I deserved both. I have gotten away with many more times when I had exceeded the speed limit or run a red light that had just turned. I admit it. I do not make excuses and I do not try to "TRICK" my way out of the truth.
That said, I find it interesting how many times one person can be stopped by the police for not only speeding, but totally disregarding the safety of others on the road by going well over the customary ten miles per hour above the speed limit; reckless operation. And then to brag about getting away with it because one has a video camera just proves the negative of using them, not a positive.
Law Enforcement has a hard enough job without the public opinion against them. Most of bad public opinion is NOT justified. I consider the use of body cams on police officers as a tool to prove they are not guilty of accusations. What some consider extreme, some of us realize is really warranted in that particular situation. Let's face it, most folks arrested do not receive the justice they deserve in court and probably the worst penalty they receive is during the arrest procedure alone.
There are probably a lot more bad doctors, teachers and food service personnel than bad cops.

[Get real]

Here is a great idea....let's repair the image of politicians first. I know that's tough because the image is really bad (unlike police). How about all politicians wear body cameras? That would be a first step. Follow that with term limits.

[Bay Kid]

Here is a great idea....let's repair the image of politicians first. I know that's tough because the image is really bad (unlike police). How about all politicians wear body cameras? That would be a first step. Follow that with term limits.

Great idea. Shame it will never happen.

[La lamy]

Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH3puMC23B4) is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.

I like your thinking. Hopefully the days of police power tripping are coming to an end. May it once again be to SERVE and PROTECT, although I know there is a fine line when the police feel threatened by bad apples themselves.

[MandoMan]

Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black. These videos give us a unique opportunity to actually collect that data. And the video was not fabricated, and I've no idea what the fabricated numbers are that you refer to.

If you watched that video (I suspect few did), the unfortunate 18 year old black kid has his hands on the steering wheel when the officer goes up to him - as if though he has been taught by his parents to do that in order to avoid being shot. Does anyone here feel like they need to do that? It really makes one want to cry seeing how badly he is treated by the people with the job of protecting us.

Most of us are white and privileged, and minorities sadly are typically the opposite. Bad cops maybe are jaded by the crime they see, but if they are treating people like the way he did in that video (and has the gall to ask that poor kid why the bad impression of police) he needs to find another job. And if he doesn't want to leave, then he becomes our problem - a really BIG problem.

I get the BLM movement - it's about how their lives and outlooks are so much different from ours due solely to their financial status and color of their skin. There's been a very long history of no level playing field that contributes to that - and it will take numerous generations to overcome what has been done to them. Originally I too was in the All Lives Matter camp, but once I got the idea of what this is all about BLM makes perfect sense and the other "matters" are designed as distractions to have us move along and not do anything. If we truly care about our fellow human beings, it is important to take this first step of at least acknowledging that we have a problem.

I'd like to add to the comment about the dashcam video. I have one and have been stopped once in the last 7 years. The officer definitely took note of it and was super nice. Maybe it was because of the camera which he definitely noticed, or because I was white driving a Lexus in an upscale neighborhood one town away from home, or maybe he was a believer in good community relations - upon reflection I think the latter and a combination. But I suspect the camera did help.

I'm so grateful for the body cam and phones in general. Without them George Floyd would have been just another "resisting arrest" death. I wish there were more cameras around during the times of Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and so many of the other creeps who got away with their crimes for so long.

I’ve just finished a long career as a college professor. It was a rare thing for a student to treat me with disrespect. (The students who did were nearly all African-Americans who would drift into class five to twenty minutes late or sleep in class, but most African-Americans were as respectful to me as I was to them.) I had authority, and students accepted that, did what I asked, learned, and got good grades. Students almost never talked back in a disrespectful way. They didn’t complain. They didn’t call me names. I was so fortunate!

I asked my students several times, as a part of writing assignments, what they did if a cop pulled them over for a traffic violation. (95% white classes) Half of the guys said they lied. Most of the others offered an excuse. Some argued with the cop. A few accepted what they had coming or apologized. Of the women, most of them tried to get out of the ticket by either bursting into tears (this was calculated) or flirting. So, any cop, knowing this, knows that even “the best kids” are not being honest very often, though they may be polite.

Imagine being a cop in a neighborhood where people may show gratitude when you help them, but in general you are treated with suspicion or clear dislike and distrust. Most people you ask for information lie to you. People who have done something wrong lie to you. When you need to make an arrest, people gather around and say bad things about you, swear at you, tell you how terrible you are. Respect is rare, even when you are being respectful. Everyone seems to resent you. People swear at you. Sometimes they spit at you or throw things at you. Some pull guns on you. Yet you are expected to always turn the other cheek while protecting and serving.

We are asking our police officers to show the meekness and forgiveness of Jesus going to his crucifixion as we vilify them.

The wonder is not that the police resent this and start to hate the people they are supposed to help, but that more of them don’t snap and start firing. I would prefer that they be always polite and understanding, but I couldn’t do it. It would be so much easier for them if those they are policing would be as respectful as my students.

[Girlcopper]

Saw a crazy number the other day.............Law Enforcement have 370,000,000 interactions with the public every year.


Given that number, and given the number of bad interactions........the "bad image" is all fabricated.
Exactly. Theres a few bad apples in every profession and everyone blames the whole group. Its just another “cause” for the coddled generation to jump on. Show respect. Do what your told and stop shooting your mouth off. Grow up, be an adult, move out of mommy n daddys basement. Its not all about YOU

[amexsbow]

Police misconduct is no greater than any other profession (except lawyers and politicians). The police ranks are made up of people from the general population of a particular area. The number of "bad actors" is a reflection of the same number of miscreants in the general population. This is the same in all other professions. Doctors, lawyers and other professions discipline their own. Only the police are called to a different standard with demands to be disciplined by civilians. As a retired Internal Affairs Commander I can tell you there were many cases where officers were fired only to be reinstated by a civilian review board. So even that solution has its problems.
As far as the amateur videos of police misconduct, you only see a portion of what happened, often edited, and biased by the person taking the video.
I can say without equivocation that if the police do not have the support of their leaders and politicians while doing their job, they will become "radio cops" responding to calls, not doing proactive policing and basically slowing down. C.Y.A. who in their right mind would do anything which could jeopardize their life, job, home and well being to be castigated by society for doing their job. If the average american does not wake up what happened to Portland, Seattle and New York City is coming to a city where you live. Think about living in a city where the police are immobilized by the politicians who run the city. Talk to people who live in those areas where the criminal and leftist thugs have taken over.
Antifa, BLM and other extremist groups are laying the groundwork for the destruction of our democracy.
Read and listen to what they say to their followers, not what they pander to the media.
If we as a nation do not wake up our grandchildren and great grandchildren will live in a society much like the other socialist societies around the world.

[Nanny32162]

Saw a crazy number the other day.............Law Enforcement have 370,000,000 interactions with the public every year.


Given that number, and given the number of bad interactions........the "bad image" is all fabricated.

You say the "bad image" is all fabricated. Would you think that they were fabricated, if an unarmed member of your family were killed by the police?

[dewilson58]

You say the "bad image" is all fabricated. Would you think that they were fabricated, if an unarmed member of your family were killed by the police?


I'll play your game.



Yes.


One officer's actions does not create/support/justify a bad image.

[bilcon]

Cameras, Cameras everywhere. Big Brother is watching U.

"When the Rule of Law disappears, we are ruled by the whims of men."

[jimjamuser]

not sure why anyone would start in LE these days
The answer probably is that most of the LEOs and the criminals are BOTH recruited from or learn their crime trade in the same (lower) class. Also the military police feed directly into the civilian police. Conclusion : there will ALWAYS be plenty of Police. Only the city, state, or Federal budget limits Police numbers, plenty of available recruits.

[dewilson58]

Conclusion : there will ALWAYS be plenty of Police. Only the city, state, or Federal budget limits Police numbers, plenty of available recruits.


Hmmmm


unfortunately there are thousands of positions opened and not filled.

[jimjamuser]

Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black. These videos give us a unique opportunity to actually collect that data. And the video was not fabricated, and I've no idea what the fabricated numbers are that you refer to.

If you watched that video (I suspect few did), the unfortunate 18 year old black kid has his hands on the steering wheel when the officer goes up to him - as if though he has been taught by his parents to do that in order to avoid being shot. Does anyone here feel like they need to do that? It really makes one want to cry seeing how badly he is treated by the people with the job of protecting us.

Most of us are white and privileged, and minorities sadly are typically the opposite. Bad cops maybe are jaded by the crime they see, but if they are treating people like the way he did in that video (and has the gall to ask that poor kid why the bad impression of police) he needs to find another job. And if he doesn't want to leave, then he becomes our problem - a really BIG problem.

I get the BLM movement - it's about how their lives and outlooks are so much different from ours due solely to their financial status and color of their skin. There's been a very long history of no level playing field that contributes to that - and it will take numerous generations to overcome what has been done to them. Originally I too was in the All Lives Matter camp, but once I got the idea of what this is all about BLM makes perfect sense and the other "matters" are designed as distractions to have us move along and not do anything. If we truly care about our fellow human beings, it is important to take this first step of at least acknowledging that we have a problem.

I'd like to add to the comment about the dashcam video. I have one and have been stopped once in the last 7 years. The officer definitely took note of it and was super nice. Maybe it was because of the camera which he definitely noticed, or because I was white driving a Lexus in an upscale neighborhood one town away from home, or maybe he was a believer in good community relations - upon reflection I think the latter and a combination. But I suspect the camera did help.

I'm so grateful for the body cam and phones in general. Without them George Floyd would have been just another "resisting arrest" death. I wish there were more cameras around during the times of Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and so many of the other creeps who got away with their crimes for so long.
I agree. I also get the BLM movement. If in the 60s President L.B. Johnson had finished the civil rights legislation to include REAL fair housing and elimination of gettoes and zoning that favored white supremacy, then Blacks could have created wealth through homes in mixed neighborhoods. We could have all grown up with Black friends and neighbors and dated interracially and today most every younger person would be about the same color (a nice healthy tan). Our neighbors here in TV land would be Black and White. All people would be much safer, less violence. And with some other good legislation, the Police might carry only nightstick like British Bobbies!

[jimjamuser]

Simple question for those concerned about the police' behavior.

How many thought there was a problem before the current onslaught by special interest and minority groups amplified 24/7 by the media?

How many bad cops have you run into in your life time?

For starters.

It is nothing but a hyped up prejudice by those with a specific agenda.....which has nothing to do with the health and welfare of the 98+% of us that support law enforcement.
I had a bad incident. It unnecessarily cost me money and I had trouble sleeping for 1 month.

[jimjamuser]

I'll participate. I was worried that it'd be one of those horrible cell phone videos that shows police being brutally violent and threatening to kill or tasering someone who wasn't making attempts to be violent or resisting (there are bunches of those and they're horrifying and I avoid watching them).

This was incredibly tame (comparatively speaking), while at the same time demonstrating CLEARLY why police have earned a poor reputation in some areas of cities and states throughout the country. When they handcuffed him I wished at that time I could've jumped through the computer monitor and protected that kid. Those police know damned well why a young black male in a poor neighborhood would be nervous about being pulled over by a police officer. It's no secret...but they're baiting him, hoping he'll get upset - pushing him to get upset so they'd have a reason to arrest him. That's why they asked the kid why he was acting nervous. They knew the answer before they asked it. They were just hoping for a "reaction."

This is a TYPICAL incident in these neighborhoods. Young black men who are just going to and from work or school, who aren't thugs, don't have drugs, alcohol, or weapons in their vehicles, being stopped by the police for minor infractions that the police escalate through very intentional lines of questioning, into "incidents" that end up with searches - and if the victims (that's what they are - they are victims of the police) get upset - they are arrested.

I've hung out in poor neighborhoods. Heck, I've slept in a graveyard with homeless people, and in a dilapidated condemned building that had a hole in the roof and plastic sheeting over the bed to keep the mattress from soaking when it rained.

Most of the folks living in them are trying to make the best of their situation, and hopefully get out of it. Yes there are thugs, and drugs, and alcohol, and weapons. But most of these people are not thugs, into drugs, alcohol, or killing each other. It makes me sick to my stomach to see the ones who are doing nothing wrong (other than a wide turn - seriously?), being singled out and manhandled and accused and treated like scum, because of the few who actually deserve the scrutiny.

Ask yourselves - when was the last time you even noticed whether or not you were making a "wide turn?" And when was the last time you were pulled over for such a minor infraction? You know minorities get pulled over regularly for failing to signal? For not using their turn signal. It happens. Every single day. Meanwhile, the rest of us who aren't minorities, forget to turn the signal, and then when we remember to use it, forget to turn it off, we roll through stop signs, we don't pull over immediately when an ambulance is trying to pass, we do all kinds of things we aren't supposed to do - and rarely, if ever, get pulled over for it.

SO there you have it. That's my participation piece. This is why the police need their reputation to be repaired. Because there are kids with beautiful smiles and bright futures being bullied and manhandled by cops who think that those smiles and futures are meaningless if their skin is darker than theirs.
Wow!!!! That was REALLY some way interesting post. Good to not be afraid to relate to low points in ones life (everybody has those, few let them out to get oxygen). That WAS pure participation. And I was beginning to think that this site was just about CV info-bullies and threads like - What candy bar did you like growing up?

[LoisR]

Nothing wrong with police image.
The focus by the media, special interest groups and politicians on the isolated cases to further an agenda.

Once again the general membership/majority is made to look/appear as needing fixing.

Go after the isolated cases to come up to the standards of the MAJORITY or throw them out. The real problem?

The dudds and incompetence few and bad actors are protected.

Fix the real problem!!
When have you ever heard of a "good cop" turning in a "bad cop?"

How about a college degree being necessary for even consideration to apply?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Wow!!!! That was REALLY some way interesting post. Good to not be afraid to relate to low points in ones life (everybody has those, few let them out to get oxygen). That WAS pure participation. And I was beginning to think that this site was just about CV info-bullies and threads like - What candy bar did you like growing up?

It wasn't a low point in my life, at all. I wasn't homeless. I slept in a graveyard WITH homeless people. They invited me. I was welcomed among them because I was a street musician, and Harvard Square (Cambridge, MA) has a sort of counter-culture there with buskers, homeless, near-homeless, artists of all sorts, and "poor college students on scholarships." I considered it an honor and a privilege to share their "living space." To allow an "outsider" into the only semblance of privacy they have, is a very rare opportunity and a huge gesture of trust on their part.

The condemned building was a sort of flop-house for a group of the street people (not homeless exactly - but still part of the counter-culture). I was "with" one of them for several months, he was a Vietnam Veteran suffering from PTSD, alcoholism, and a rare gift of expressing himself through music. He's mostly cleaned up his act, gotten the help he needed, and is now a street-minister who uses his music to spread the good word and help others who live in difficult circumstances.

The stories I share are mostly stories of my personal observance - of other people. How they touched me and my life through THEIR experiences. That's why I'm so passionate about this topic. It breaks my heart to see these kids having to grow up afraid to leave their front door, out of fear of "charged with being black in public."

[jimjamuser]

It wasn't a low point in my life, at all. I wasn't homeless. I slept in a graveyard WITH homeless people. They invited me. I was welcomed among them because I was a street musician, and Harvard Square (Cambridge, MA) has a sort of counter-culture there with buskers, homeless, near-homeless, artists of all sorts, and "poor college students on scholarships." I considered it an honor and a privilege to share their "living space." To allow an "outsider" into the only semblance of privacy they have, is a very rare opportunity and a huge gesture of trust on their part.

The condemned building was a sort of flop-house for a group of the street people (not homeless exactly - but still part of the counter-culture). I was "with" one of them for several months, he was a Vietnam Veteran suffering from PTSD, alcoholism, and a rare gift of expressing himself through music. He's mostly cleaned up his act, gotten the help he needed, and is now a street-minister who uses his music to spread the good word and help others who live in difficult circumstances.

The stories I share are mostly stories of my personal observance - of other people. How they touched me and my life through THEIR experiences. That's why I'm so passionate about this topic. It breaks my heart to see these kids having to grow up afraid to leave their front door, out of fear of "charged with being black in public."
Well, that makes an even more interesting post. There is a similar mixed group of slices of society in Clearwater Beach that I wandered through about 10 years ago when I had more adventure flowing through my veins. It was a thought-provoking experience.

[jimjamuser]

Hmmmm


unfortunately there are thousands of positions opened and not filled.
There would be plenty of recruits if the salary was equal or more than the danger and other disadvantages. I mentioned budget, so I stand by my statement. ANY job can be filled if the salary is satisfactory. In the near future we will have ROBO-COPS and ROBO everything. Sooner than most people realize.

[jimjamuser]

Being an LEO must be a very frustrating occupation. You work hard, risking life and limb to arrest violent felons, and the next thing you know you encounter them out on the street again committing more crimes because the court system released them! God bless our LEOs!
Being a LEO could be frustrating? I am a Scorpio and even I get frustrated sometimes. I do not completely believe everything about the Zodiac

[NoMoSno]

///

[Byte1]

The answer probably is that most of the LEOs and the criminals are BOTH recruited from or learn their crime trade in the same (lower) class. Also the military police feed directly into the civilian police. Conclusion : there will ALWAYS be plenty of Police. Only the city, state, or Federal budget limits Police numbers, plenty of available recruits.

"Lower class?" Sounds like something I have heard elitists say. FYI, many COPs today have college degrees. One thing that many are getting right lately, and that is that today's generation needs the police to be babysitters/nannies. It's interesting that instead of condemning criminal behavior, it's always condemnation of the police attempting to do their jobs in impossible circumstances. First it was the mommy that defends bad behavior of her delinquent child in school, and then it's the mommy defending criminal behavior by her basement resident child in his later years. Teacher is the culprit first and then the evil demon cop that had a personal agenda against her poor little innocent basement dweller son.

[Byte1]

When have you ever heard of a "good cop" turning in a "bad cop?"

How about a college degree being necessary for even consideration to apply?

Good cops DO turn in bad cops, after other options are tried. You haven't heard of it because it is done quietly or anonymously. That's why they have IAD investigators.

Yes, many police organizations require a college degree. Interesting how some folks can make statements without knowing the facts. Speaking in general, not pointed toward any particular poster.

[bakon]

Started my 30th year today. Faced off with just one other officer a group of 50 protesters just a week a go. They came down the six lane road at rush hour and we made sure nobody got to them. Nobody yelled at them . Nobody ran their car through their line. Nobody called them a name or even gave them a dirty look because we had 120 officers blocking every intersection. Just pure luck they stopped next to me and Carl (25 years) and sat down for half hour.
Take your idea and run it up a flag pole. Sing songs. We dont care if you watch us. Cameras been around my entire career . First in car video, then small VHS recorders all the way to everyone having one in their phone for 10years now.

But dont claim to know how to do my job, what is right way or wrong, until you talk a drunk woman into going home...i wont ask you to strap on boots and walk up to a car load of people half you age at 2am when back up is only three minutes away. Thats were all the internet academy police experts will tell you to .....

By all means tell me what the right thing to do is.

[transplanted]

Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH3puMC23B4) is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.
And what would you suggest be done about the civilians who file false reports against police officers?

[tvbound]

175 views.....6 posts.

I suppose this could be viewed as an example of the silent majority.....being silent?

If folks do not participate when anonymous, most certainly can't expect anymore when there is a need to stand and be counted.

:lipsrsealed:

:sad:

I watched the video after it was posted and chose not to comment. Why? Because I was disgusted with the cops bullying and condescending attitude and wanted to let my blood pressure lower a bit before saying anything that might get me in trouble. That young man deserves a big pat on the back, for keeping his cool during an obvious made up reason (we know this, because the driver had already called his mom and said that cops were following him prior to the turn) to pull him over for nothing more than "driving while being a young black male" and the cop trying to get a rise out of him while being on his power trip. The really sad part is that all too many of us white people won't see anything wrong with these cops actions in this incident and yet if it were your kid who was profiled and treated like this (especially if it was a black officer talking to a white kid like was done), you should be outraged, if you're any type of good parent that is. I hope the family wins their lawsuit, solely for the main purpose that they can force the Louisville police department to start properly training their force.

[jebartle]

Every profession has it's bad apples, BUT no one should be profiled by the color of their skin, period. This is a tumultuous time to be a LEO. I pray for their safety.

[amexsbow]

As a retired L.E.O. I feel sad for the haters. I and every other officer who served had people spit, urinate, hit, lie, cry and do whatever they could to degrade, evade or attack us while performing our job. How many of you can say the same? Yet you would denigrate each and every one of us by your ad hominem attacks on the police, all the while supporting the organized campaign to cripple law enforcement in its defense of our nation by leftists and socialists who want the destruction of our country and our way of life. Yes America has flaws, but what country can you name which has more freedoms and more opportunity to succeed by sheer will of the individual.

[Byte1]

As a retired L.E.O. I feel sad for the haters. I and every other officer who served had people spit, urinate, hit, lie, cry and do whatever they could to degrade, evade or attack us while performing our job. How many of you can say the same? Yet you would denigrate each and every one of us by your ad hominem attacks on the police, all the while supporting the organized campaign to cripple law enforcement in its defense of our nation by leftists and socialists who want the destruction of our country and our way of life. Yes America has flaws, but what country can you name which has more freedoms and more opportunity to succeed by sheer will of the individual.

Thank you for your service. I have never in my 70 years had a "BAD" incident with a law enforcement officer. I have been stopped and ticketed (professionally) and deserved both tickets I have had in total. AND, I have deserved many more. I had one incident on a major highway where my old car threw a piston right out of the engine block and I had two children with me in my car. A state trooper stopped to assist me, saw how the car was useless and offered me his advice. He said for me to take my tags off it and anything else I wanted from the car and let it be towed away to a junk yard. He then gave us a ride to a relative's home ten miles away.
Other than fiction TV, I have never seen any indication of racial bias or police brutality. I am sure that there has been racial bias in law enforcement, but if so the individuals have kept it covered by professionalism, courtesy and kindness. Something else that folks do not take into consideration, but is reality and fact that an individual can be a racist and still be a good citizen. Meaning, being biased does not have to interfere with how one performs their job. In Vietnam, I knew guys that hated the enemy, yet when the enemy was taken prisoner those same guys treated them with complete professionalism. You cannot force a change in one's likes or dislikes, but how one performs his/her job can still be performed in a manner where you would not know the difference. A doctor treats a killer's gunshot wound. He does not allow his anger or hate interfere with his performance. He does just as good a job as he would a child or a priest.

[Dave@TV]

Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing - .

Did you look up any videos showing the other side - POs being attacked by people they're trying to question or take into custody? There are a lot of those videos out there, too, but strangely, you never see them on the news. Look at some of those videos and you will see how POs put their lives on the line every day. I agree there are some bad cops out there and they should be weeded out, but there are a lot of bad people out there that need to be dealt with, also.

[Byte1]

Did you look up any videos showing the other side - POs being attacked by people they're trying to question or take into custody? There are a lot of those videos out there, too, but strangely, you never see them on the news. Look at some of those videos and you will see how POs put their lives on the line every day. I agree there are some bad cops out there and they should be weeded out, but there are a lot of bad people out there that need to be dealt with, also.

A possible example is when Floyd was arrested. He was put into the police car and while the police officers were dealing with the other two individuals, he escaped from the vehicle. That is when things got serious. Interesting that that video was not released to try to explain more details of the incident. There is always videos that spotlight the mistakes made by law enforcement, but how often do you get to see the other side and how the suspect is acting?