Epidemic of racially motivated police shootings? University report says no.

[John41]

The media has been portraying white police officers as having a bullseye on the black population. Here are the facts you will never here from the media.

Credit: CC0 Public Domain
Reports of racially motivated, fatal shootings by police officers have garnered extensive public attention and sparked activism across the nation. New research from Michigan State University and University of Maryland reveals findings that flip many of these reports on their heads—white police officers are not more likely to shoot minorities citizens than non-white officers.


"Until now, there's never been a systematic, nationwide study to determine the characteristics of police involved in fatal officer-involved shootings," said Joseph Cesario, co-author and professor of psychology at MSU. "There are so many examples of people saying that when black citizens are shot by police, it's white officers shooting them. In fact, our findings show no support for the idea that white officers are biased in shooting black citizens."

The findings—published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, or PNAS - are based on an independent database Cesario and his team created that catalogued each police shooting from 2015. The team—led also by co-author David Johnson from University of Maryland—contacted every police department that had a fatal police shooting to get the race, sex and years of experience for every officer involved in each incident. The team also leveraged data from police shooting databases by The Washington Post and The Guardian.

"We found that the race of the officer doesn't matter when it comes to predicting whether black or white citizens are shot,"

[Stu from NYC]

Terrible when facts get in the way of what the media is pushing.

Some years ago they media ranted and raved about all the churches that were destroyed or heavily damaged and low and behold it was a steady number for years.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.

[JGVillages]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.

And the statistics to support this are?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And the statistics to support this are?

Statistics to support an opinion? Pretty sure I don't need any. I was under the assumption that the "issues" were not "white cops shooting - exclusively - black people."

It's based on what I thought. So - 100% of all people who use the handle OrangeBlossomBaby on websites dedicated to Talk of the Villages - agree.

There's your statistic.

[mtdjed]

Statistics to support an opinion? Pretty sure I don't need any. I was under the assumption that the "issues" were not "white cops shooting - exclusively - black people."

It's based on what I thought. So - 100% of all people who use the handle OrangeBlossomBaby on websites dedicated to Talk of the Villages - agree.

There's your statistic.

Well, that is perfectly intuitive to the most casual observer , with a minimum of observation!

[Topspinmo]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.


All people are chased, tased, and shot when they don’t obey the law and try to injury police officers. Obey commands to live another day, disobey and put yourself in danger. When you fill the shoes of police officers and being shot at often you tend to be jumpy trying to stay alive. This happens daily in some crime ridden cities.

[Topspinmo]

Statistics to support an opinion? Pretty sure I don't need any. I was under the assumption that the "issues" were not "white cops shooting - exclusively - black people."

It's based on what I thought. So - 100% of all people who use the handle OrangeBlossomBaby on websites dedicated to Talk of the Villages - agree.

There's your statistic.

Don’t mean it’s right or true.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Meanwhile, here's another report, also from a university. It's not exclusively about white cops shooting black criminals.

It's about the use of force by police, use of force policies, and basic human rights, and how police departments are really screwing it up.

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ihrc

Warning - it's an actual report, not just a 4-paragraph article about a report. It's 100 pages long. A good read though. With real facts and everything.

[Tom2172]

If you can watch movie shadowgate on YouTube how government contractors use Ipsy social media to influence with propaganda - they are pushing this white cop narrative - they want to defund the police and be in charge

[donassaid]

Could that possible be because blacks are committing more crimes and when confronted by police, either try to flee or resist arrest?

[George Page]

[QUOTE=100%[/QUOTE]

Speaking of “100%”, I’m guessing that 100% of the people that resist a police officer and do not comply with their instructions run the risk of the encounter escalating, regardless of skin color.

[musicjack999]

13% of the population is committing over 60% of the crimes.

[LoisR]

As the author so states: "The report is attempting to "predict" shooting scenarios." Please raise your hands high, and you might as well assume the position, if you've ever read of a police shooting involving a black officer and a black "suspect."
Since most police departments don't even employ minority officers, and the few that do have only a minimal staffing, how accurate is the report?

[George Page]

In my opinion,
100% of the people who resist a police officer or do not comply with their instructions run the risk of the encounter escalating, regardless of skin color.

[Love2Swim]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.

That’s it exactly. And there are many studies showing black people are anywhere from three to eight times more likely to be shot during a police encounter than white people. Why anyone would try to infer the opposite in the face of facts is just another instance of systemic racism in this country.

[Warren]

Why is it that "Black Lives Matter" only when white police are involved in an incident? Don't they matter when a black on black incidents occur? What about the little black girl shot in Chicago a few weeks ago? Who speaks up for her? Her death was just incidental to the bigger story of another weekend of gang violence. Why is it that most of the sensationalized incidents occur with individuals who have been in trouble before and are resisting the authorities?

[WesMan]

All people are chased, tased, and shot when they don’t obey the law and try to injury police officers. Obey commands to live another day, disobey and put yourself in danger. When you fill the shoes of police officers and being shot at often you tend to be jumpy trying to stay alive. This happens daily in some crime ridden cities.
Correct!!!!!!!!!

[llewopyaj]

Let's acknowledge that there needs to be a constant heightened awareness that there is an appropriate way to treat suspects in stopping, chasing, questioning, and arresting them. No stereotyping by race, ethnicity, or looks. Even though a suspect's behavior may be undesirable and suspicious in nature, a suspect should be treated in a authoritative humane civil manner. The police need to maintain control of the situation with humanity and dignity. No short order. A high duty and responsibility.
Proper, thorough vetting recruits, training, evaluation, and retention of officers needs to be done in a way to best ensure that racial bias and inappropriate behavior does not appear in officers. And, when all is said and done, there needs to be a realization that bad things happen, especially in the heat of the moment, and not to throw out the proverbial baby with the dirty bath water. Rioting, defunding the police, and lawlessness certainly are not justified in any way; they are counterproductive and destructive.

[Bay Kid]

Could it be that more blacks commit crimes, then resist arrest?

[graciegirl]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.

What you said appears to be the common thought among CERTAIN GROUPS but if you watch Orlando's evening news consistently, it is obvious what is really happening.

Or if you watch Cincinnati's evening news, as we did for a very long time it was obvious as well. Cincinnati used to publish once a year in our Newspaper pictures of all people murdered and it was a shock.

Many people are not racist in the fact that they try very hard NOT to attribute certain negative events to groups of people.

When it is brought to the attention in a public way of the high rate of crime among certain groups, there are many who explain that poverty is a contributing factor, also that some groups do not have the opportunity for good jobs that others have. And certain groups have had a history going back well over a hundred years of terribly unfair and inhumane treatment.

I try very hard to be fair but now I hear some local campaign speeches by the person who seems to be another Aramis Ayala who is berating the well connected wealthy people as if it is a crime to be financially successful.

I have never been other than white, but I have been poor. I have only lived where there was no segregation for most of my life. There was no people who were Indian or Asian that I knew in school and only five black students in our graduating class of 366.

I think that many of us have gone over and over in our minds if we are racist after the huge propaganda campaign BLM. It doesn't ring true to me that police forces are unfairly singling out black people. It appears they are following people a lot who leave known high drug areas and may stop them on a non working tail light, but I don't think they target people in cars in the dark whose color is not visible. Not most of the police officers. This whole new defunding the police seems to me to be some sort of retaliation against police by people who have been in trouble with the law.

[UseYourBrain]

This would be more convincing As a race issue if it included whether they were resisting arrest. Maybe THAT is the issue and not race. A better statistic that might point to race being a factor is how many are shot that aren’t resisting. But the media is cherry picking “facts” to support a narrative

[mamamia54]

I have never heard of anyone , any color, who didn’t resist arrest being tased, beat, etc. If you are being arrested and are resisting a fighting, that’s another story. Certain drugs in the system can make even the smallest woman like Superman. What should the officers do, ask to sing Kumbaya. It is getting harder and harder for police to do their jobs. Most people won’t care, might even be glad. This will affect all of us, not just criminals. We all might have to have encounters with police officers not only for criminal reasons. When they are defunded and don’t show up to help maybe a little Kumbaya might. Also, if you haven’t been in a police officers shoes, don’t talk like they fit you!

[nick demis]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.

Change the phrase "black people being chased----" to "poverty stricken and criminals --" and from" white police" to "police'". Do you realize that most of these problems are in regions that "white police are less than 50% of the police force.
Stop spreading a biased narrative and start working to help this great country heal.

[LG999]

Bingo

[toeser]

The media has been portraying white police officers as having a bullseye on the black population. Here are the facts you will never here from the media.

Credit: CC0 Public Domain
Reports of racially motivated, fatal shootings by police officers have garnered extensive public attention and sparked activism across the nation. New research from Michigan State University and University of Maryland reveals findings that flip many of these reports on their heads—white police officers are not more likely to shoot minorities citizens than non-white officers.


"Until now, there's never been a systematic, nationwide study to determine the characteristics of police involved in fatal officer-involved shootings," said Joseph Cesario, co-author and professor of psychology at MSU. "There are so many examples of people saying that when black citizens are shot by police, it's white officers shooting them. In fact, our findings show no support for the idea that white officers are biased in shooting black citizens."

The findings—published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, or PNAS - are based on an independent database Cesario and his team created that catalogued each police shooting from 2015. The team—led also by co-author David Johnson from University of Maryland—contacted every police department that had a fatal police shooting to get the race, sex and years of experience for every officer involved in each incident. The team also leveraged data from police shooting databases by The Washington Post and The Guardian.

"We found that the race of the officer doesn't matter when it comes to predicting whether black or white citizens are shot,"


Following is a link to ABC's coverage of this.

In fatal police shootings, race of officer not predictive of civilian'''s race: Study - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fatal-police-shootings-race-officer-predictive-civilians-race/story?id=64563567)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Why is it that "Black Lives Matter" only when white police are involved in an incident? Don't they matter when a black on black incidents occur? What about the little black girl shot in Chicago a few weeks ago? Who speaks up for her? Her death was just incidental to the bigger story of another weekend of gang violence. Why is it that most of the sensationalized incidents occur with individuals who have been in trouble before and are resisting the authorities?

They do matter. And until everyone is on board with that fact, "all" lives will not yet matter.

[nick demis]

Meanwhile, here's another report, also from a university. It's not exclusively about white cops shooting black criminals.

It's about the use of force by police, use of force policies, and basic human rights, and how police departments are really screwing it up.

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ihrc

Warning - it's an actual report, not just a 4-paragraph article about a report. It's 100 pages long. A good read though. With real facts and everything.

Now you are using a Chicago based report where the murder and shooting rate is worse than most terrorist countries?

[Eg_cruz]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.
Can you tell me the difference between...beat-up, physically assaulted and battered. You list all three as if they are three different issues.
FYI the issue in US (all the riots and looting) is blacks being “killed” by white officers.

[Byte1]

I wonder what the stats are on the race of the shooter in most COPs shot every year.

According to the FBI, about half the COPs killed in recent years have been by black suspects. Hmmm, considering that America is populated about 13.4% by black Americans, that seems like a very large ratio. If black suspects are more apt to kill police than white suspects, it seems logical to think that the police would be a bit leery when interacting with black suspects. Oh, and in most years (other than 2019) 100% of the COP killings were perpetrated by males. In 2019 one killing was by a female.

[nick demis]

As the author so states: "The report is attempting to "predict" shooting scenarios." Please raise your hands high, and you might as well assume the position, if you've ever read of a police shooting involving a black officer and a black "suspect."
Since most police departments don't even employ minority officers, and the few that do have only a minimal staffing, how accurate is the report?

So your using a fact that most police departments don't employ minorities in the country? Yet you fail to say that most communities in the country have less than 1% minorities. I live in a town, in the liberal state of Massachusetts, and the minority population in my town and the surrounding towns are about 0.7%. In my town of 12 policemen there are 2 minorities and 3 women. Does that mean that as a white man I am being unjustly represented? So much for your argument. Anybody can find a fact that suit their needs but few are willing to do proper research to determine the true facts.

[Byte1]

They do matter. And until everyone is on board with that fact, "all" lives will not yet matter.

People that make ludicrous assumptions about police brutality should try walking a mile in their shoes. Perhaps if they were to do a ride along, they could better appreciate the difficult job in which they are being underpaid to perform. And by the way, most ride alongs only see the less dangerous part of police duties, because the police are trying to protect them while still performing their duties.
Most police enforce the law while being color blind. A law broken is the same regardless of the color of the perp. I know that many prefer to conveniently avoid that perspective, because it does not fit their narrative.

[Nusch]

Unfortunately only about 14% of America is black and a vast majority of urban crime in committed by African Americans. Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Detroit and NewYork are currently being vacated by those who can.leave.

[kanoa1kale2]

Meanwhile, here's another report, also from a university. It's not exclusively about white cops shooting black criminals.

It's about the use of force by police, use of force policies, and basic human rights, and how police departments are really screwing it up.

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ihrc

Warning - it's an actual report, not just a 4-paragraph article about a report. It's 100 pages long. A good read though. With real facts and everything.

Coming from Chicago, it was preordained to be 100 pages long.

[Girlcopper]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.
Dont resist and cooperate when stopped by police and none of your statements occurs. Quote your sources for your hate of police comments

[wwwson]

Statistics to support an opinion? Pretty sure I don't need any. I was under the assumption that the "issues" were not "white cops shooting - exclusively - black people."

It's based on what I thought. So - 100% of all people who use the handle OrangeBlossomBaby on websites dedicated to Talk of the Villages - agree.

There's your statistic.



I was wondering if you had any reports or analysis on the phenomenon of the excessive number of shootings of blacks, BY BLACKS in areas such as Chicago, Philadelphia and Milwaukee. Far more blacks have lost their life at the hands of other blacks then at the hands of police.
Some STAGGERING numbers from 2011 Chicago PD:
VICTIMS

83.4% of deaths were from shootings, 6.7% stabbings, and 6.5% assaults. Of the 362 firearm homicides, 351 (97%) were from handguns. 77% of all homicide victims had a prior arrest history. Victims were 90% male.

Victims By Race:
Black 326 75.3% Hispanic 82 18.9% White 20 4.6%. Other 5 1.2%

Offenders By Race:
Black 122 71.3% Hispanic 42 24.6% White 6 3.5% Other 1 .6%

It may be more beneficial to focus on the bigger cause of unnecessary deaths in America than to sensationalize other causes of deaths In our communities.

[greenflash245]

the cops do target blacks, whether the cop is black or white or pink or blue. don't kid yourself

[graciegirl]

the cops do target blacks, whether the cop is black or white or pink or blue. don't kid yourself

I do not agree. Tell us why you say this.

[MandoMan]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.

“Under suspicion of the same crimes” is an interesting distinction. Thanks. It’s important. It gives a different answer than say, comparing one neighborhood with another. Poorer, more densely populated neighborhoods are more likely to have a higher crime rate, irrespective of skin color, and so to have more police personnel assigned to it. More crimes happen, more are seen, more attempts at arrest are made, more criminals resist arrest in many ways, and so more violence between criminals and cops occurs. Again, this is irrespective of skin color. I don’t believe cops often think, “This suspect has dark skin, so I’m going to beat him hard as I attempt to arrest him as he resists me and threatens my life,” or “This suspect has a pinkish tan complexion, so if he threatens my life while resisting arrest, I’m just going to politely ask him to comply without laying a finger on him.” (I’m not talking about a general level of anger, fear, mistrust, or racism many cops develop because of how they are treated in a community that leads to an aggressive and authoritarian response to provocation of any sort by darker-skinned people.)

I believe many cops have highly prejudiced attitudes against people with darker skins, generally conditioned by experience, and many people with darker skins (but not most!) have highly prejudiced attitudes toward light-skinned people in general but especially against police officers of any sort, ALSO generally conditioned by experience. However, I think the evidence shows that when it comes to attempts at arrest, cops tend to react the normal way they react to resistance, and the worse the resistance, the worse the response. If the criminal happens to have darker skin, that is seen as racism. If the criminal happens to have lighter skin, that is usually not seen as racism. In fact, neither one is primarily racist, but hatred of criminal action and a desire to make the arrest. Another element is that when lighter-skinned people who resist arrest are arrested after police violence, this usually happens in some other neighborhood than one with mostly darker-skinned people, so the darker-skinned people don’t witness it and come to believe that the violence must be due to their skin color.

I very much want to see relations between the police and the community improve. I want cops to learn effective ways of defusing situations. I also want community members to respond to law enforcement officers with respect, both verbal and physical. I’d like to see them cooperate more with police by telling them where to find criminals so they can be arrested. The old habit of not telling the police harms people. Sometimes a law-abiding mother or brother can save the lives of others by calling the police and saying, “I know my son did this, and here is where you will find him.” This goes against human nature, but it is part of being a good citizen. People should be rewarded for this citizenship.

[graciegirl]

They do matter. And until everyone is on board with that fact, "all" lives will not yet matter.

My problem with statements like this from certain groups is not that I don't agree with them, but they are very idealistic and lacking in realism. Most humans in today's world are far more able to see people as people because of the overwhelming information we are shown and absorb.

Those who grew up in multi-diverse heavily populated areas and those who grew up in areas of relatively low crime have completely different life experiences.

I moved here from Cincinnati after living on a street with many ethnicities, BUT they were all employed by General Electric or Proctor and Gamble or The Lakota School System and made quite a bit of money. The area where I was a child had no murder committed in my whole going to school time. We did have drunks and domestic abuse.

I was called a liar by my next door neighbor in Hadley when I told him that. He was a cop from the Bronx. And he wasn't like any police officer I had ever known or either of the two family members who were life long police officer or like the dads of kids in my class who were police officers. Most of us have had very different life experiences so we can't be lecturing others thinking we walked in their shoes.

I have changed from one way of "thinking" as a young person to another way of "thinking" as an older person who has travelled through being poor and very unrealistic to being financially secure. And like most people, after weathering many serious storms including cancer and death of people I love and observing heartbreak and awful things that happened to friends. I am a realist now and I try very hard to see things as they ARE and not some unrealistic dream that can never be real life, no matter how we want it to be. I ask many questions as to WHY some survive and prosper and some do not. I know that we are not all born equal. AND we cannot legislate morality. If we ban guns, the bad guys will still have guns. If we give people what others work hard for there will be resentment at the very least. We do not do enough for the truly disabled and there are scams out there to the hopeful including college for folks who are learning disabled and not really capable to going to college. We all wish for dreams that will not and cannot be realized. WE MUST SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE.

[Pbthrockm@msn.com]

What most police departments do not employee Black police officers? Absolutely false statement. They employ anyone who applies and meets the job requirements and completes the training academy. You need to do some investigating work before you make such a inappropriate statement.

[PugMom]

Statistics to support an opinion? Pretty sure I don't need any. I was under the assumption that the "issues" were not "white cops shooting - exclusively - black people."

It's based on what I thought. So - 100% of all people who use the handle OrangeBlossomBaby on websites dedicated to Talk of the Villages - agree.

There's your statistic.

you make a good point. i though this whole mess was over methods of restraint used by police, and what kind of force is required to subdue a suspect. it's upsetting to know these items have been overlooked to be focused instead on race. it's not about the police anymore, not even about george floyd. this has been turned into an issue intended to divide groups, when unity is what's needed to remedy the situation.

[merrymini]

As the author so states: "The report is attempting to "predict" shooting scenarios." Please raise your hands high, and you might as well assume the position, if you've ever read of a police shooting involving a black officer and a black "suspect."
Since most police departments don't even employ minority officers, and the few that do have only a minimal staffing, how accurate is the report?

Who says that “most” police department do not employ black officers? I guess some real facts here would do to substantiate That comment.

[kendi]

They do matter. And until everyone is on board with that fact, "all" lives will not yet matter.

That makes no sense.

[Holpat39]

When stopped and questioned by a police office just follow instructions. Don't mouth off, don't flee, don't do anything that would give cause to being stopped. I am 80 years old and have never been stopped by the police, oops, except for a right turn on red many years ago. So, follow the law and you won't have any interaction with police.

[msilagy]

18% of the population is black....50% of crimes committed are done by blacks. When a police officer says you are under arrest - obey - and nothing will happen most likely.

[ribil]

Speaking of “100%”, I’m guessing that 100% of the people that resist a police officer and do not comply with their instructions run the risk of the encounter escalating, regardless of skin color.
That’s why people don’t pet alligators. They pretty much know they are in danger of getting hurt. Too many police men and women have been hurt or killed reacting to a particular type of suspect. Is that profiling? You betcha.

[OhioBuckeye]

The media has been portraying white police officers as having a bullseye on the black population. Here are the facts you will never here from the media.

Credit: CC0 Public Domain
Reports of racially motivated, fatal shootings by police officers have garnered extensive public attention and sparked activism across the nation. New research from Michigan State University and University of Maryland reveals findings that flip many of these reports on their heads—white police officers are not more likely to shoot minorities citizens than non-white officers.


"Until now, there's never been a systematic, nationwide study to determine the characteristics of police involved in fatal officer-involved shootings," said Joseph Cesario, co-author and professor of psychology at MSU. "There are so many examples of people saying that when black citizens are shot by police, it's white officers shooting them. In fact, our findings show no support for the idea that white officers are biased in shooting black citizens."

The findings—published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, or PNAS - are based on an independent database Cesario and his team created that catalogued each police shooting from 2015. The team—led also by co-author David Johnson from University of Maryland—contacted every police department that had a fatal police shooting to get the race, sex and years of experience for every officer involved in each incident. The team also leveraged data from police shooting databases by The Washington Post and The Guardian.

"We found that the race of the officer doesn't matter when it comes to predicting whether black or white citizens are shot,"
Wait a min. White or Black police shooting, white, Asian, Spanish or black. I’ve never heard of a police ever saying I haven’t got my quota on a certain race. If they did why is there protest saying BLM. What’s that trying to tell us & look at the protest crowds on the news. Now talk about being racist. There’s more black shootings from private black citizens shooting other blacks than white police shooting blacks in a yr. Look at Chicago, I bet there’s 30 blacks shot by other blacks there in 1 day than police shot in a yr. BLM is just BS so blacks can do whatever they want & police are suppose to look the other way.

[jimjamuser]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.
Orange baby - I hate to be apples about this - really, respectfully - there was a large omission. The bias in the Judicial branch and better lawyers for the Prosecutors, causes blacks to often get harder sentences for the same crime as whites.
Respectfully, apple baby. The overall intent and content of the Orange post was "right on".

[jimjamuser]

Statistics to support an opinion? Pretty sure I don't need any. I was under the assumption that the "issues" were not "white cops shooting - exclusively - black people."

It's based on what I thought. So - 100% of all people who use the handle OrangeBlossomBaby on websites dedicated to Talk of the Villages - agree.

There's your statistic.
Orange ROCKS! And talks the talk. And walks the...........whatever? Forever? Is cleaver? Or never?

[jimjamuser]

All people are chased, tased, and shot when they don’t obey the law and try to injury police officers. Obey commands to live another day, disobey and put yourself in danger. When you fill the shoes of police officers and being shot at often you tend to be jumpy trying to stay alive. This happens daily in some crime ridden cities.
Yes, a social problem dating back to the mid 60s when lBJ almost solved it with the Civil Rights Act. He stopped short of a fix for the isolation into opposing ghetto camps. Busing was not enough - just a bandaid! If the US had, back in the 60s, then succeeded with a real community mixing program, we would now be ALL more of a similar color and much less polarized. LBJ was so, sssooo close to a permanent solution to domestic peace! Try the love thy neighbor principle more.

[jimjamuser]

If you can watch movie shadowgate on YouTube how government contractors use Ipsy social media to influence with propaganda - they are pushing this white cop narrative - they want to defund the police and be in charge
Nice conspiracy reference. I must be watching the wrong news.

[jimjamuser]

13% of the population is committing over 60% of the crimes.
So, find a solution. What say you? Greater Wealth disparity - I don't think so?

[jimjamuser]

Let's acknowledge that there needs to be a constant heightened awareness that there is an appropriate way to treat suspects in stopping, chasing, questioning, and arresting them. No stereotyping by race, ethnicity, or looks. Even though a suspect's behavior may be undesirable and suspicious in nature, a suspect should be treated in a authoritative humane civil manner. The police need to maintain control of the situation with humanity and dignity. No short order. A high duty and responsibility.
Proper, thorough vetting recruits, training, evaluation, and retention of officers needs to be done in a way to best ensure that racial bias and inappropriate behavior does not appear in officers. And, when all is said and done, there needs to be a realization that bad things happen, especially in the heat of the moment, and not to throw out the proverbial baby with the dirty bath water. Rioting, defunding the police, and lawlessness certainly are not justified in any way; they are counterproductive and destructive.
That just oozes logic. Very well written. Sums it all up in a neat package.

[jimjamuser]

I have never heard of anyone , any color, who didn’t resist arrest being tased, beat, etc. If you are being arrested and are resisting a fighting, that’s another story. Certain drugs in the system can make even the smallest woman like Superman. What should the officers do, ask to sing Kumbaya. It is getting harder and harder for police to do their jobs. Most people won’t care, might even be glad. This will affect all of us, not just criminals. We all might have to have encounters with police officers not only for criminal reasons. When they are defunded and don’t show up to help maybe a little Kumbaya might. Also, if you haven’t been in a police officers shoes, don’t talk like they fit you!
Think of this factor - police body cameras have opened the eyes of America to what is REALLY happening. We saw Floyd get MURDERED with our eyes. THAT is why the BLM protests have MANY young and some old WHITE citizens so emotionally charged. We can see and count the WHITES. And please don't tell me the Floyd situation was an outlier! If that were true there would not be so many WHITES joining BLM. And sure, there are some anarchist groups taking advantage - they always do. Technology developed the Police cameras. In about 10 years, NEUTRAL robotic POLICE will be doing much of the patroling. Then, hopefully, this argument will be moot.

[jimjamuser]

I wonder what the stats are on the race of the shooter in most COPs shot every year.

According to the FBI, about half the COPs killed in recent years have been by black suspects. Hmmm, considering that America is populated about 13.4% by black Americans, that seems like a very large ratio. If black suspects are more apt to kill police than white suspects, it seems logical to think that the police would be a bit leery when interacting with black suspects. Oh, and in most years (other than 2019) 100% of the COP killings were perpetrated by males. In 2019 one killing was by a female.
Interesting factor - gender. That MIGHT? indicate that improved social techniques WOULD be worth a try. I remember the little BLACK boy in the park with a toy gun and the PoliceMAN that drove his car within pistol range to engage the kid and did NOT wait for backup. Or gave the kid and the situation time to evaluate. Then just BLEW him away. He was definitely MALE. I think I remember? him as being white?
Why not try having volunteer female social 3rd and 4th year college students doing "ride alongs". I would say pay them. But regardless many colleges are not open. Could be a good experiment. Who watches the Watchmen?????

[jimjamuser]

The key word in Post 39 is "NEIGHBORHOODS". Because the US in the 60s did not succeed with eliminating GHETTO neighborhoods through civil rights, we have this mess still with us today. WE need leaders for future generations. MY generation barely got BUSING. We ffffedd up way back then. And YES I DO feel guilty!

[Jokomo]

Study that claims white police no more likely to shoot minorities draws fire | Science | AAAS (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/08/study-claims-white-police-no-more-likely-shoot-minorities-draws-fire)

Discredits the study you cite. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[Mikeodonnell73]

It would be interesting to see what the makeup of people who shot at police officer is with reference to race.

[rmd2]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.

The city where I lived in Illinois was 50,000. The stats there were 10% African American lived there and the crime stats were 80% of the crime was committed by African American. So there is that too.

[graciegirl]

Equal is good. But affirmative action yells "pity" to me.

I keep hearing make jobs pay more when the truth is that jobs usually have pay that reflects the level of skill and work involved. I can't see where it is right to up the pay for jobs that do not require great skill.

We are not all born with equal skills. Several decades ago the educators squelched the use of I.Q. testing. Please hear me say very loudly that I in no way think people are more valuable if they are smarter but it sometimes helps to help them if you know their strengths and weaknesses. We have been ignoring those issues and some folks are not doing well in school. It must be frustrating to them.

WE are ignoring a lot of things that to me are obvious so as to be politically correct and not hurt people and in so doing we are hurting people worse and allowing our educational system to fail.

[Tennisbum]

As soon as I read the blurb, "In a 24-day period in 2015, police
in the United States shot more people than the police did in England and Wales in 24 years" I knew that it may be a bit biased. How can you compare what happens in Chicago, Baltimore, etc. with two counties that have very few guns in the general population. There are more guns in the hands of the thugs on the south side of Chicago then there are in all of England and Wales. Once the police are officially declawed and we start sending out focus groups to manage the killers, I am sure things will get much better. Until you have had somebody turn and fire at you, you have no standing in any discussion on how and when to shoot.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Equal is good. But affirmative action yells "pity" to me.

I keep hearing make jobs pay more when the truth is that jobs usually have pay that reflects the level of skill and work involved. I can't see where it is right to up the pay for jobs that do not require great skill.

We are not all born with equal skills. Several decades ago the educators squelched the use of I.Q. testing. Please hear me say very loudly that I in no way think people are more valuable if they are smarter but it sometimes helps to help them if you know their strengths and weaknesses. We have been ignoring those issues and some folks are not doing well in school. It must be frustrating to them.

WE are ignoring a lot of things that to me are obvious so as to be politically correct and not hurt people and in so doing we are hurting people worse and allowing our educational system to fail.

I have no idea what my IQ is. I'm sure I was tested back in the stone age. But those kinds of tests only tell you how good you are at taking those types of tests.

I can figure percentages in my head, I can add and subtract without thinking about it. I can program a computer, I can ride a horse. I can garden. I can shoot a target at 30 yards with a recurve bow. I can read, and actually enjoy reading, Chaucer. I can understand written Spanish and French. I can swear in 7 languages. I can color within the lines, though my creative streak sometimes rebels against that kind of compliant behavior.

I can play 12 different musical instruments with varying levels of expertise (or novice, as the case may be) and the only reason I can't play more is because those are the only ones I've tried to play thus far. I can read music in C-clef, G-Clef, and F-clef.

I don't need no stankin IQ test to tell me how intelligent I am.

[graciegirl]

I have no idea what my IQ is. I'm sure I was tested back in the stone age. But those kinds of tests only tell you how good you are at taking those types of tests.

I can figure percentages in my head, I can add and subtract without thinking about it. I can program a computer, I can ride a horse. I can garden. I can shoot a target at 30 yards with a recurve bow. I can read, and actually enjoy reading, Chaucer. I can understand written Spanish and French. I can swear in 7 languages. I can color within the lines, though my creative streak sometimes rebels against that kind of compliant behavior.

I can play 12 different musical instruments with varying levels of expertise (or novice, as the case may be) and the only reason I can't play more is because those are the only ones I've tried to play thus far. I can read music in C-clef, G-Clef, and F-clef.

I don't need no stankin IQ test to tell me how intelligent I am.

I don't either. But I have administered quite a few tests in my life and I can tell you what you already know; You are much above average.

I was on the board of the Williams Syndrome Association for many years and met there many people who are and always will be treasures to me and who have enriched my life. One of those treasures is our youngest daughter who was born with Williams Syndrome.

Wechslers and Whoopsies and Stanford Binet's helped our daughter and many of her friends and her sister too who was in the gifted class. It really is horse **** that we all come with the same ability set. And there is no shame to that truth either.

[Luisa]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.
I have never seen this in 67 years. Address the real problems instead of blaming it on racism. There are many black police officers, police captains, police chiefs, and mayors, so how can you blame it on whites. This IS racism. The real problems are the high crime rate and drug use among blacks, blacks assaulting police officers, resisting arrest, and erratic and uncooperative behavior related to drug use.

[Luisa]

Meanwhile, here's another report, also from a university. It's not exclusively about white cops shooting black criminals.

It's about the use of force by police, use of force policies, and basic human rights, and how police departments are really screwing it up.

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ihrc

Warning - it's an actual report, not just a 4-paragraph article about a report. It's 100 pages long. A good read though. With real facts and everything.
Like we are going to believe anything coming out of Chicago, where they have the worst crime rate in the nation. Blacks shoot and kill numerous other blacks, including babies and children, every week in cities like Chicago, and the only concern is the color of a policeman’s skin?

[Luisa]

13% of the population is committing over 60% of the crimes.
Well said!

[Luisa]

Let's acknowledge that there needs to be a constant heightened awareness that there is an appropriate way to treat suspects in stopping, chasing, questioning, and arresting them. No stereotyping by race, ethnicity, or looks. Even though a suspect's behavior may be undesirable and suspicious in nature, a suspect should be treated in a authoritative humane civil manner. The police need to maintain control of the situation with humanity and dignity. No short order. A high duty and responsibility.
Proper, thorough vetting recruits, training, evaluation, and retention of officers needs to be done in a way to best ensure that racial bias and inappropriate behavior does not appear in officers. And, when all is said and done, there needs to be a realization that bad things happen, especially in the heat of the moment, and not to throw out the proverbial baby with the dirty bath water. Rioting, defunding the police, and lawlessness certainly are not justified in any way; they are counterproductive and destructive.
The issue is the behavior of the suspect.

[tvbound]

White supremacy is just the tip of the racism iceberg - CNN Video (https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/07/20/united-shades-of-america-racism-iceberg-orig.cnn)


It only takes a minute to watch, but carries so much truth.

[Luisa]

Orange baby - I hate to be apples about this - really, respectfully - there was a large omission. The bias in the Judicial branch and better lawyers for the Prosecutors, causes blacks to often get harder sentences for the same crime as whites.
Respectfully, apple baby. The overall intent and content of the Orange post was "right on".

Don’t commit a crime and you don’t have to worry about prosecutors or lawyers.

[Love2Swim]

Originally Posted by greenflash245 :

the cops do target blacks, whether the cop is black or white or pink or blue. don't kid yourself.
__________________
It is better to laugh than to cry.
I do not agree. Tell us why you say this.

Study after study shows that blacks are unfairly targeted in police traffic stops, yet it is a recurring conservative theme to refute these studies. The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) has figures available on public interaction with police which support this fact.An August 2019 study published by the National Academy of Sciences based on police-shooting databases found that between 2013 and 2018, black men were about 2.5 times more likely than white men to be killed by police, and that black men have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying at the hands of police. Black women were 1.4 more times likely to be killed than white women. Latino men were 1.3 to 1.4 times more likely to be killed than white men. Latino women were between 12 percent and 23 percent less likely to be killed than white women.A 2019 study of 11,000 police stops over about four weeks in the District of Columbia found that while black people make up 46 percent of the city’s population, they accounted for 70 percent of police stops, and 86 percent of stops that didn’t involve traffic enforcement.A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. ....and the list goes on and on. So Greenflash was correct. Don't kid yourself.

[Luisa]

So, find a solution. What say you? Greater Wealth disparity - I don't think so?

Cut the crime and drugs and take advantage of the 9000 newly created opportunity zones. There are and have been millions of poor whites and other races in America for centuries, so cut the crap. For those of us that started with nothing, you only fire us up more.

[Luisa]

Originally Posted by greenflash245 :

the cops do target blacks, whether the cop is black or white or pink or blue. don't kid yourself.
__________________
It is better to laugh than to cry.


Study after study shows that blacks are unfairly targeted in police traffic stops, yet it is a recurring conservative theme to refute these studies. The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) has figures available on public interaction with police which support this fact.An August 2019 study published by the National Academy of Sciences based on police-shooting databases found that between 2013 and 2018, black men were about 2.5 times more likely than white men to be killed by police, and that black men have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying at the hands of police. Black women were 1.4 more times likely to be killed than white women. Latino men were 1.3 to 1.4 times more likely to be killed than white men. Latino women were between 12 percent and 23 percent less likely to be killed than white women.A 2019 study of 11,000 police stops over about four weeks in the District of Columbia found that while black people make up 46 percent of the city’s population, they accounted for 70 percent of police stops, and 86 percent of stops that didn’t involve traffic enforcement.A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. ....and the list goes on and on. So Greenflash was correct. Don't kid yourself.
They have a higher crime rate.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by greenflash245 :

the cops do target blacks, whether the cop is black or white or pink or blue. don't kid yourself.
__________________
It is better to laugh than to cry.


Study after study shows that blacks are unfairly targeted in police traffic stops, yet it is a recurring conservative theme to refute these studies. The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) has figures available on public interaction with police which support this fact.An August 2019 study published by the National Academy of Sciences based on police-shooting databases found that between 2013 and 2018, black men were about 2.5 times more likely than white men to be killed by police, and that black men have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying at the hands of police. Black women were 1.4 more times likely to be killed than white women. Latino men were 1.3 to 1.4 times more likely to be killed than white men. Latino women were between 12 percent and 23 percent less likely to be killed than white women.A 2019 study of 11,000 police stops over about four weeks in the District of Columbia found that while black people make up 46 percent of the city’s population, they accounted for 70 percent of police stops, and 86 percent of stops that didn’t involve traffic enforcement.A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. ....and the list goes on and on. So Greenflash was correct. Don't kid yourself.

I think you may not have followed the article and the repercussions of the article and the withdrawal of the study. Here are a number of articles about the fact that the article you reference was carelessly done and refuted;
national acadamy of sciences. study on police shootings by race - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=national+acadamy+of+sciences.+study+on+po lice+shootings+by+race&cvid=2e3652a900f6423d9e91affcac6c042e&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

[canyonblue]

Proper, thorough vetting recruits, training, evaluation, and retention of officers needs to be done in a way to best ensure that racial bias and inappropriate behavior does not appear in officers.

Which would require TRAINING. Which would require funding. Anyone naive enough to believe this defund movement is anything other than a power grab is delusional. Medical errors kill from 44000 to 98000 Americans each year. I have a great idea, lets DEFUND Doctors and Nurses. Unbelievable Americans are this stupid, no wait, it's not. :rolleyes:

[Dahabs]

Meanwhile, here's another report, also from a university. It's not exclusively about white cops shooting black criminals.

It's about the use of force by police, use of force policies, and basic human rights, and how police departments are really screwing it up.

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ihrc

Warning - it's an actual report, not just a 4-paragraph article about a report. It's 100 pages long. A good read though. With real facts and everything.

Great analysis & recommendations.

[Dahabs]

They have a higher crime rate.

Grossly oversimplifies the issue(s).

[Dahabs]

Don’t commit a crime and you don’t have to worry about prosecutors or lawyers.

Another oft repeated oversimplification. You don't always have to be guilty to be arrested. However, once you are in the system, if you cannot afford bail and a decent lawyer you are screwed perhaps forever. Even if you are eventually discharged, you have likely lost your job, your housing and your debts have probably piled up.

[tsmall22204]

All this talk, all I know is a handcuffed man, on the ground, posing no threat, was kneeled on and murder. Now you can quote all the studies you read on the internet (we know how true they are) but the fact remains, a black man was murdered while in handcuffs by a white officer.

[skarra]

Equal is good. But affirmative action yells "pity" to me.

I keep hearing make jobs pay more when the truth is that jobs usually have pay that reflects the level of skill and work involved. I can't see where it is right to up the pay for jobs that do not require great skill.

...


Therein lies the problem. We treat unskilled people like they don’t deserve to be paid a livable wage.

Poverty leads to crime, and so rich folk (typically white, but mainly because they have enjoyed generations of privilege) have to resort to extreme policing to keep the poor underclass under control.

Up the minimum wage to a livable wage and that will go a long way to helping the situation. And do a better job of weeding out the bad cops - we see far too many on video these days.

[Girlcopper]

As the author so states: "The report is attempting to "predict" shooting scenarios." Please raise your hands high, and you might as well assume the position, if you've ever read of a police shooting involving a black officer and a black "suspect."
Since most police departments don't even employ minority officers, and the few that do have only a minimal staffing, how accurate is the report?
What planet or place do you live? Dont employ minorities? Where is that statement coming from? A police dept has basic tests to pass plus psychological testing. If more blacks than whites fail....oh well. Whose fault is that?

[Girlcopper]

I have never heard of anyone , any color, who didn’t resist arrest being tased, beat, etc. If you are being arrested and are resisting a fighting, that’s another story. Certain drugs in the system can make even the smallest woman like Superman. What should the officers do, ask to sing Kumbaya. It is getting harder and harder for police to do their jobs. Most people won’t care, might even be glad. This will affect all of us, not just criminals. We all might have to have encounters with police officers not only for criminal reasons. When they are defunded and don’t show up to help maybe a little Kumbaya might. Also, if you haven’t been in a police officers shoes, don’t talk like they fit you!
Exactly. Comply, do what youre told and you get to go home. Resist? Yes, you may get tased, beat or even shot. Make your choice. Everytime someone wants to get out of a situation, the race card is pulled out. How about the immigrants who came through Ellis Island way back when. They were discriminated against and treated like crap but the majority of them wound up working hard and became a success. They didnt put their hand out to get everything free possible from govt aid. And if they were poor, they didnt birth 10 kids and get paid grom the govt for each one. Open your eyes everyone. Color never mattered. Integrity does

[Girlcopper]

That’s it exactly. And there are many studies showing black people are anywhere from three to eight times more likely to be shot during a police encounter than white people. Why anyone would try to infer the opposite in the face of facts is just another instance of systemic racism in this country.
Because studies show blacks resist more than whites. Post ALL the facts

[Rebel Pirate]

Meanwhile, here's another report, also from a university. It's not exclusively about white cops shooting black criminals.

It's about the use of force by police, use of force policies, and basic human rights, and how police departments are really screwing it up.

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ihrc

Warning - it's an actual report, not just a 4-paragraph article about a report. It's 100 pages long. A good read though. With real facts and everything.

WOW, with real facts and everything! Let's take a look at some of these real facts...and decide if they are evidence of a real agenda.

(1) "This report was researched and drafted by the International Human Rights Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School (“authors”)..."

(2) "Use of lethal force policies were then analyzed and graded using a system the authors developed based on international law and standards..."

(3) "The authors collected police department 2017-2018 use of lethal force policies online—on police department websites and at useofforceproject.org..."

(3a) Here is the very first line from the authors single most important data source at useofforceproject.org: (just do a Google search or click the link in the report)

"POLICE USE OF FORCE POLICIES CURRENTLY LACK BASIC PROTECTIONS AGAINST POLICE VIOLENCE"

(4) Is it possible that a distorted, agenda-driven report begins with a distorted, agenda-driven principal source of data?

[Swoop]

All this talk, all I know is a handcuffed man, on the ground, posing no threat, was kneeled on and murder. Now you can quote all the studies you read on the internet (we know how true they are) but the fact remains, a black man was murdered while in handcuffs by a white officer.
But if the man who was kneeled on and died was white, his story wouldn’t even have made the national news. Because that wouldn’t fit the media’s false narrative of systemic police racism.

[baramu]

Bologna.

[Bay Kid]

All this talk, all I know is a handcuffed man, on the ground, posing no threat, was kneeled on and murder. Now you can quote all the studies you read on the internet (we know how true they are) but the fact remains, a black man was murdered while in handcuffs by a white officer.

Wait until you watch all the videos of the death of the black gentleman.

[graciegirl]

Another oft repeated oversimplification. You don't always have to be guilty to be arrested. However, once you are in the system, if you cannot afford bail and a decent lawyer you are screwed perhaps forever. Even if you are eventually discharged, you have likely lost your job, your housing and your debts have probably piled up.

Oh Pshaw.

Dad had seven siblings. Grams was one of nine. Not a single soul among them all and their offsprings and wives and sisters and cousins and aunts were arrested and have a record. No one needed to hire a decent or indecent lawyer. Had some speeders but no folks arrested.

I have lived on this earth for 80 years. We have dozens and dozens of family. Some are not the epitome of wonderful but they managed to avoid getting arrested, losing their job because of being arrested and worrying about a lawyer. I think that The Villages is full of people who have a similar experience.

DO NOT BLAME LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR ENFORCING THE LAW.

And if you aren't going to speak kindly about them don't call them cops. We know what you really say.

[Byte1]

Yes, a social problem dating back to the mid 60s when lBJ almost solved it with the Civil Rights Act. He stopped short of a fix for the isolation into opposing ghetto camps. Busing was not enough - just a bandaid! If the US had, back in the 60s, then succeeded with a real community mixing program, we would now be ALL more of a similar color and much less polarized. LBJ was so, sssooo close to a permanent solution to domestic peace! Try the love thy neighbor principle more.

In that case, I am glad he failed. I do not feel that the gov should be involved in manipulating racial demographics in communities. Integration is not the same as assimilation. Concentrate on assimilation and integration will happen on it's own and more naturally.

[Bikeracer2009]

I get the impression that a majority of people stand against racism when it's clearly identified. If you say racism exists somewhere out there in the ether and we need to fix it is when you lose some of your audience.

Show me racism and I'll stand next to you to defeat it.

When I hear profanity laced speeches being shouted through a bullhorn by a protester demanding reparations for slavery, defunding police and saying it's all because of racist cops, I see the accusation of racism being used as a weapon, a threat or an excuse to loot and act like a thug.

I support peaceful protest for continued changes in the way the police interact with the black population and being held accountable for bad cops.

I don't support opportunistic individuals looking for a quick money grab or power. An opportunity to call random strangers racist and push their political views if you disagree.

[jimbomaybe]

Statistics to support an opinion? Pretty sure I don't need any. I was under the assumption that the "issues" were not "white cops shooting - exclusively - black people."

It's based on what I thought. So - 100% of all people who use the handle OrangeBlossomBaby on websites dedicated to Talk of the Villages - agree.

There's your statistic.

everybody who thinks like me agrees , a statistical fact so it must be so

[graciegirl]

I get the impression that a majority of people stand against racism when it's clearly identified. If you say racism exists somewhere out there in the ether and we need to fix it is when you lose some of your audience.

Show me racism and I'll stand next to you to defeat it.

When I hear profanity laced speeches being shouted through a bullhorn by a protester demanding reparations for slavery, defunding police and saying it's all because of racist cops, I see the accusation of racism being used as a weapon, a threat or an excuse to loot and act like a thug.

I support peaceful protest for continued changes in the way the police interact with the black population and being held accountable for bad cops.

I don't support opportunistic individuals looking for a quick money grab or power. An opportunity to call random strangers racist and push their political views if you disagree.

THANK you for posting this perception of the problem. I so agree.

I SO agree.

[Byte1]

Therein lies the problem. We treat unskilled people like they don’t deserve to be paid a livable wage.

Poverty leads to crime, and so rich folk (typically white, but mainly because they have enjoyed generations of privilege) have to resort to extreme policing to keep the poor underclass under control.

Up the minimum wage to a livable wage and that will go a long way to helping the situation. And do a better job of weeding out the bad cops - we see far too many on video these days.

Why mandate a "minimum" wage at all? Why should the Fed Gov interfere with private business? If you do not feel you are getting paid what you believe you deserve to be paid, then quit and get a different job. There are plenty of jobs in this country and NO excuse for anyone not having one that wishes to work. If you do not get paid enough to pay the bills, then take on a second or third job. I have worked three jobs at once to support my family. Seems like it is pride or laziness that keeps folks from being able to support their families, not opportunity.

[oldtimes]

I get the impression that a majority of people stand against racism when it's clearly identified. If you say racism exists somewhere out there in the ether and we need to fix it is when you lose some of your audience.

Show me racism and I'll stand next to you to defeat it.

When I hear profanity laced speeches being shouted through a bullhorn by a protester demanding reparations for slavery, defunding police and saying it's all because of racist cops, I see the accusation of racism being used as a weapon, a threat or an excuse to loot and act like a thug.

I support peaceful protest for continued changes in the way the police interact with the black population and being held accountable for bad cops.

I don't support opportunistic individuals looking for a quick money grab or power. An opportunity to call random strangers racist and push their political views if you disagree.

I absolutely agree.

[McGyver9]

That’s it exactly. And there are many studies showing black people are anywhere from three to eight times more likely to be shot during a police encounter than white people. Why anyone would try to infer the opposite in the face of facts is just another instance of systemic racism in this country.

I'd like to see these "many" "studies"....and WHO did them...and WHO was paying for them.

And I can GUARANTEE that they don't include the "circumstance" of what lead to the shooting.
(Fighting/running/pointing-shooting a gun)

They act like the Police walk up and execute people, for NO reason.

And I'm sure that "statistics" of ratios of WAY more white Officers, vs other races......as well as 50% of CRIME being perpetrated by 13% of the population aren't included.
Please try to use some common sense and tell me HOW it would be possible for "statistics" to show up ANY other way?

Lastly, HOW can ANYONE "claim" that ANY perpetrators death is "racist"?
They are PERPETRATORS!
The Cop didn't MAKE them do whatever they did, and RESIST.
And most likely, someone CALLED 911 and REQUESTED their presence!
How is THAT racist?

It's NOT a Police Officer's "job" to get in a fistfight/wrestling match on EVERY call they go on, as many people THINK.
How long of a career do you think they would have?

Want to live?
Don't fight, don't run...
Pretty simple.

[sloanst]

Meanwhile, here's another report, also from a university. It's not exclusively about white cops shooting black criminals.

It's about the use of force by police, use of force policies, and basic human rights, and how police departments are really screwing it up.

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ihrc

Warning - it's an actual report, not just a 4-paragraph article about a report. It's 100 pages long. A good read though. With real facts and everything.

So, what's your opinion of that study? :blahblahblah:

[billethkid]

Why is there the constant need to highlight/emphasize/spotlight/exaggerate/etc white or black.

This constant grinding of black this or white that is in itself promoting and using racism.

It has little or nothing to do with the average (black) American and all to do with minority/special interest/political agendas.

[OhioBuckeye]

Orange baby - I hate to be apples about this - really, respectfully - there was a large omission. The bias in the Judicial branch and better lawyers for the Prosecutors, causes blacks to often get harder sentences for the same crime as whites.
Respectfully, apple baby. The overall intent and content of the Orange post was "right on".

Seriously do you really think these burnings, breaking windows out & looting & tormenting police is what BLM means. There’s probably 5 blacks to every one white looting & burning people’s lively hoods. This has gone on to long to mean BLM. BLM has just got the upper hand on one of our govt. parties & our weak one sided party is continuing to let BLM control them. It won’t end with them even if they do win. When this BS, BLM thugs want something they now know how to get it & this party won’t have any idea how to contain it & make it stop.

[gail swanson]

Do you have statistics as to percentage of officers of color to percentage of population of color in a certain city?

[NoMoSno]

Too bad there was no police presence in Portland Sunday night.
GRAPHIC VIOLENCE! Antifa/BLM! Young man violently assaulted in Portland by radical militants - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSe_BSQb_H4)

[17362]

In my opinion,
100% of the people who resist a police officer or do not comply with their instructions run the risk of the encounter escalating, regardless of skin color.

We agree. Period. No color makes any difference. And the cops we know personally are of the same Opinion.

[jimjamuser]

As soon as I read the blurb, "In a 24-day period in 2015, police
in the United States shot more people than the police did in England and Wales in 24 years" I knew that it may be a bit biased. How can you compare what happens in Chicago, Baltimore, etc. with two counties that have very few guns in the general population. There are more guns in the hands of the thugs on the south side of Chicago then there are in all of England and Wales. Once the police are officially declawed and we start sending out focus groups to manage the killers, I am sure things will get much better. Until you have had somebody turn and fire at you, you have no standing in any discussion on how and when to shoot.
Everyone has standing because we vote for the politicians that DECIDE how to deal with crime. They are ALL or almost all people that have NEVER been shot at themselves. Humans have empathy and can project themselves into a situation. It is a basic part of life. If you are called to jury duty, they do NOT call only robbery victims to decide a robbery case. And etc. Judges and others DO take into consideration "heat of the moment situations". You have a point that there is a factor to consider there. And it IS taken into consideration.

[jimjamuser]

I have no idea what my IQ is. I'm sure I was tested back in the stone age. But those kinds of tests only tell you how good you are at taking those types of tests.

I can figure percentages in my head, I can add and subtract without thinking about it. I can program a computer, I can ride a horse. I can garden. I can shoot a target at 30 yards with a recurve bow. I can read, and actually enjoy reading, Chaucer. I can understand written Spanish and French. I can swear in 7 languages. I can color within the lines, though my creative streak sometimes rebels against that kind of compliant behavior.

I can play 12 different musical instruments with varying levels of expertise (or novice, as the case may be) and the only reason I can't play more is because those are the only ones I've tried to play thus far. I can read music in C-clef, G-Clef, and F-clef.

I don't need no stankin IQ test to tell me how intelligent I am.
Super interesting post! I especially like the "recurve bow" detail I prefer bare bow to all the expensive tech accessories of a machine bow. Also the swearing part, way cool!

[jimjamuser]

I don't either. But I have administered quite a few tests in my life and I can tell you what you already know; You are much above average.

I was on the board of the Williams Syndrome Association for many years and met there many people who are and always will be treasures to me and who have enriched my life. One of those treasures is our youngest daughter who was born with Williams Syndrome.

Wechslers and Whoopsies and Stanford Binet's helped our daughter and many of her friends and her sister too who was in the gifted class. It really is horse **** that we all come with the same ability set. And there is no shame to that truth either.
In the book' "Brave New World" there are alphas and betas and etc. I think that gifted classes are the right thing to do - with a caveat that it COULD? be pushed too far, like human breeding or even too much wealth disparity. To prevent a Brave New World, you need to have a real middle class (now disappearing) without enormous wealth disparity and you need free or affordable college. More people should have a somewhat equal shot at getting in those GIFTED CLASSES.
Where do you go, when you've gone too far? ......I think that was a song?

[jimjamuser]

I have never seen this in 67 years. Address the real problems instead of blaming it on racism. There are many black police officers, police captains, police chiefs, and mayors, so how can you blame it on whites. This IS racism. The real problems are the high crime rate and drug use among blacks, blacks assaulting police officers, resisting arrest, and erratic and uncooperative behavior related to drug use.
Goes all the way back to segregated, ghetto housing - zoning and the 60s Civil Rights incomplete laws. Love thy neighbor!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by greenflash245 :

the cops do target blacks, whether the cop is black or white or pink or blue. don't kid yourself.
__________________
It is better to laugh than to cry.


Study after study shows that blacks are unfairly targeted in police traffic stops, yet it is a recurring conservative theme to refute these studies. The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) has figures available on public interaction with police which support this fact.An August 2019 study published by the National Academy of Sciences based on police-shooting databases found that between 2013 and 2018, black men were about 2.5 times more likely than white men to be killed by police, and that black men have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying at the hands of police. Black women were 1.4 more times likely to be killed than white women. Latino men were 1.3 to 1.4 times more likely to be killed than white men. Latino women were between 12 percent and 23 percent less likely to be killed than white women.A 2019 study of 11,000 police stops over about four weeks in the District of Columbia found that while black people make up 46 percent of the city’s population, they accounted for 70 percent of police stops, and 86 percent of stops that didn’t involve traffic enforcement.A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. ....and the list goes on and on. So Greenflash was correct. Don't kid yourself.
Pretty definitive post. It would be hard to refute. Thank you for making that available. Hope it is widely read.

[graciegirl]

In the book' "Brave New World" there are alphas and betas and etc. I think that gifted classes are the right thing to do - with a caveat that it COULD? be pushed too far, like human breeding or even too much wealth disparity. To prevent a Brave New World, you need to have a real middle class (now disappearing) without enormous wealth disparity and you need free or affordable college. More people should have a somewhat equal shot at getting in those GIFTED CLASSES.
Where do you go, when you've gone too far? ......I think that was a song?

The point I was trying to make is that intelligence is fixed. You are born with the same number you die with. Unless you have brain damage. What you learn with the I.Q. that you have been given gives you tools. BUT 100 is average for humans. There are many born and will die with lower and higher I.Q. but that does not mean success or failure in life absolutely. There are many tales of the Valedictorians in large high school classes who do not score success by many standards. If you watch Jeopardy you will see a lot of folks who seem to be permanent students and cab drivers. And the opposite is true. Many people born with handicapping low intelligence are able to find employment and are able to earn a living as our daughter did working at McDonalds. A living that was aided by us with love.

I only say this because knowing how a person scores in many areas is an aid to people who are trying to help bring them to their fullest potential and guard against some of the not successful behaviors that often are connected to being a nerd. Bet you haven't heard that often but believe me, it is true. And we do not have to look far or wait long to see examples of it. Many people with I.Q.s that are very high often have difficulty with socialization and appropriate behavior. If you are a math brain does not guarantee you will have good spatial ability. etc. etc.

[jimjamuser]

Which would require TRAINING. Which would require funding. Anyone naive enough to believe this defund movement is anything other than a power grab is delusional. Medical errors kill from 44000 to 98000 Americans each year. I have a great idea, lets DEFUND Doctors and Nurses. Unbelievable Americans are this stupid, no wait, it's not. :rolleyes:
Minneapolis has a POLICE problem. They have an inflexible, fascist Police Union leader that protects rogue officers. I believe in most unions, but this one, in particular, is real bad. So, they HAVE to try something? The city is forced to. I would suggest volunteer college students ride along in the cruisers as observers to try to prevent or document Police overreach. The Colleges are often closed, so that would be something positive that students could do with their extra time and get experience. Trying something new when there is a problem is basic to problem solving.
Minneapolis Police Unions have gone too far. Where DO you go when you've gone too far?

[Doctorcrime]

Blacks are 14% 0f the population...yet they are 50% on death row. Look BCJS..Bureau of Criminal Justice Statistics...

All these shootings being reported...Black on Black crime.

[graciegirl]

Pretty definitive post. It would be hard to refute. Thank you for making that available. Hope it is widely read.

But the study about black motorists being unfairly targeted WAS refuted and changed by the authors. Here are five links to that happening. I posted this earlier on this thread;.

national acadamy of sciences. study on police shootings by race - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=national+acadamy+of+sciences.+study+on+po lice+shootings+by+race&cvid=2e3652a900f6423d9e91affcac6c042e&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

[jimjamuser]

Therein lies the problem. We treat unskilled people like they don’t deserve to be paid a livable wage.

Poverty leads to crime, and so rich folk (typically white, but mainly because they have enjoyed generations of privilege) have to resort to extreme policing to keep the poor underclass under control.

Up the minimum wage to a livable wage and that will go a long way to helping the situation. And do a better job of weeding out the bad cops - we see far too many on video these days.
At minimum, you proposed a solution - more than most posts which just complain about things as they are or they see them. There needs to be many more solutions. Increasing wealth disparity is the wrong direction. There was less wealth disparity in the 50s and 60s. There were more Unions then, remember back then? Germany has MANY Unions today and management likes them. It stabilizes their country. Ours is becoming less stable. Somehow in the US, unions have taken on a BAD image because of anti-union propaganda, especially in the south. There have been some union corruption in the past, but it can work! Germany proves it. Mercedes Benz proves it. There are MANY more solutions to this problem - which has been ignored / "swept under the rug" for maybe 80 years. It has come to a head today.
Maybe the complaining is slightly positive because it shows some small amount of awareness of the problem?

[wamley]

Your getting plenty of examples of what happens when you dismantle the police because that is what is being done in many cities throughout the country. When they are not supported by not only the community, but the elected Officials, the Police Chiefs, the media and finally the DA's and the courts. You will see the stats in all crime areas go up quickly making life miserable for the populous. Look at the exodus from NYC as a good example.

[jimjamuser]

Oh Pshaw.

Dad had seven siblings. Grams was one of nine. Not a single soul among them all and their offsprings and wives and sisters and cousins and aunts were arrested and have a record. No one needed to hire a decent or indecent lawyer. Had some speeders but no folks arrested.

I have lived on this earth for 80 years. We have dozens and dozens of family. Some are not the epitome of wonderful but they managed to avoid getting arrested, losing their job because of being arrested and worrying about a lawyer. I think that The Villages is full of people who have a similar experience.

DO NOT BLAME LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR ENFORCING THE LAW.

And if you aren't going to speak kindly about them don't call them cops. We know what you really say.
Pshaw back to you - a ricochet Pshaw. A person's life story and family may be wonderful and honerable - but, it did NOTHING to refute the facts and logic of the other post that was referenced. I still agree with the other post.

[jimjamuser]

In that case, I am glad he failed. I do not feel that the gov should be involved in manipulating racial demographics in communities. Integration is not the same as assimilation. Concentrate on assimilation and integration will happen on it's own and more naturally.
I take that point as reasonable and thoughtful. I still prefer MY opinion that neighborhoods / ghettos are an unsolved problem. Some say that government is the problem. I prefer that they build the roads we travel on rather than toll roads. I prefer speed bumps to children and older folks being run over by cars racing through parking lots. I prefer that government exists somewhere in the middle between anarchy and Fascism. Neither would be wonderful.

[jimjamuser]

Why mandate a "minimum" wage at all? Why should the Fed Gov interfere with private business? If you do not feel you are getting paid what you believe you deserve to be paid, then quit and get a different job. There are plenty of jobs in this country and NO excuse for anyone not having one that wishes to work. If you do not get paid enough to pay the bills, then take on a second or third job. I have worked three jobs at once to support my family. Seems like it is pride or laziness that keeps folks from being able to support their families, not opportunity.
In practice OPPORTUNITY is NOT 100% or equal for everybody in the US. In fact, the US is behind the UK in UPWARD MOBILITY (I seem to remember we are abut 20th and the UK is 11th. In fact we are behind Estonia). And "pride or laziness" is an oversimplification. Education is not equal. Health is not equal. If Blacks or anyone has LESS heath than the average WHITE, then certainly that BLACK will appear to be "lazy". It takes some sensitive empathy to remember the historic affects of Jim Crow laws and restricted voting (which is going on today) and other Historic degradation to ambition and self esteem that the Black race was forced to endure. And do I feel guilty ---- Yes, somewhat. And even more about treatment of Native Americans!

[jimjamuser]

To what post are you reacting? The Villages is thought of as a huge majority of stable and decent people with the best credit rating in this country. That is just a tiny glimpse into who they are. They are careful with their thoughts and their money and their votes. A white supremacist to ME is a KKK member. A white person is a white person and racism was more prevalent in some areas long ago and has been dying, dying, dying, as people live and grow. Most people who live in The Villages are KIND and RESPONSIBLE and NOT RACIST and vote a certain way and I am so mad right now I feel like kicking the tires of the next air stream camper I see.
Your view and statements are correct as to the majority of the Village people. The other post is a view of a small slice of the people. It is not incorrect. I personally know some very stubborn people who believe in white superiority. I agree that they are wrong. Reputations of places like the Villages and others are often made by the most radical, lowest common denominator.

[jimjamuser]

The point I was trying to make is that intelligence is fixed. You are born with the same number you die with. Unless you have brain damage. What you learn with the I.Q. that you have been given gives you tools. BUT 100 is average for humans. There are many born and will die with lower and higher I.Q. but that does not mean success or failure in life absolutely. There are many tales of the Valedictorians in large high school classes who do not score success by many standards. If you watch Jeopardy you will see a lot of folks who seem to be permanent students and cab drivers. And the opposite is true. Many people born with handicapping low intelligence are able to find employment and are able to earn a living as our daughter did working at McDonalds. A living that was aided by us with love.

I only say this because knowing how a person scores in many areas is an aid to people who are trying to help bring them to their fullest potential and guard against some of the not successful behaviors that often are connected to being a nerd. Bet you haven't heard that often but believe me, it is true. And we do not have to look far or wait long to see examples of it. Many people with I.Q.s that are very high often have difficulty with socialization and appropriate behavior. If you are a math brain does not guarantee you will have good spatial ability. etc. etc.
Much of what was said is TRUE. IQ is a measure that can help educators and school advisors give good guidance to students. To be more PRECISE, an IQ test is REALLY a achievement test. There IS some malleability! I would have to quote many gifted studies to prove that. And some small amount of scholars believe that it is fixed at birth.
Then there is the whole nature or nurture question that has been argued over for probably a century. Too deep and worthless to go into.

[jimjamuser]

Your getting plenty of examples of what happens when you dismantle the police because that is what is being done in many cities throughout the country. When they are not supported by not only the community, but the elected Officials, the Police Chiefs, the media and finally the DA's and the courts. You will see the stats in all crime areas go up quickly making life miserable for the populous. Look at the exodus from NYC as a good example.
The US needs to look to Europe for solutions. They avoid "coyboy mentality".

[oldtimes]

The US needs to look to Europe for solutions. They avoid "coyboy mentality".

Seriously? When we landed in Paris before 911 there were armed guards everywhere with scary looking weapons. They don’t put up with anything.

[Topspinmo]

Unfortunately only about 14% of America is black and a vast majority of urban crime in committed by African Americans. Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Detroit and NewYork are currently being vacated by those who can.leave.

Might want to add Kansas City, St. Louis, Orlando, Atlanta, Jacksonville, and about 100 more to list?

[Topspinmo]

In the book' "Brave New World" there are alphas and betas and etc. I think that gifted classes are the right thing to do - with a caveat that it COULD? be pushed too far, like human breeding or even too much wealth disparity. To prevent a Brave New World, you need to have a real middle class (now disappearing) without enormous wealth disparity and you need free or affordable college. More people should have a somewhat equal shot at getting in those GIFTED CLASSES.
Where do you go, when you've gone too far? ......I think that was a song?

Referencing book, you’re kidding right?

[Topspinmo]

That’s why people don’t pet alligators. They pretty much know they are in danger of getting hurt. Too many police men and women have been hurt or killed reacting to a particular type of suspect. Is that profiling? You betcha.

No, it’s law of average.

[jimjamuser]

Seriously? When we landed in Paris before 911 there were armed guards everywhere with scary looking weapons. They don’t put up with anything.
Better for the guns to be in the hands of calm, trained, and mentally tested uniformed Police or soldiers that are put there by an ELECTED government - than hidden in the hands of civilian attired, gang-affiliated, mentally unstable anarchists and Fascists. Whose guns, I have to add, are in ample supply because of some unnamed rifle group that supports the marketing and sales of high margin, high capacity semi-auto rifles that were converted by bump stocks and killed 59 and wounded 419 innocent citizens in Las Vegas in 2017. Is the OK with anyone? Anyone?

[oldtimes]

Better for the guns to be in the hands of calm, trained, and mentally tested uniformed Police or soldiers that are put there by an ELECTED government - than hidden in the hands of civilian attired, gang-affiliated, mentally unstable anarchists and Fascists. Whose guns, I have to add, are in ample supply because of some unnamed rifle group that supports the marketing and sales of high margin, high capacity semi-auto rifles that were converted by bump stocks and killed 59 and wounded 419 innocent citizens in Las Vegas in 2017. Is the OK with anyone? Anyone?

So are they trained, and mentally tested police and soldiers only if they live in Europe? Because it seems the ones in the US are being persecuted.

[jimjamuser]

So are they trained, and mentally tested police and soldiers only if they live in Europe? Because it seems the ones in the US are being persecuted.
US rookie Police get about 1/10 the training of European Police. That's why we have so many rogue ones slip through. But, it may be because cities and states do not have enough $ for training in their budgets.

[billethkid]

The US needs to look to Europe for solutions. They avoid "coyboy mentality".

One needs to define what they have in mind when using "cowboy mentality". I suspect the real cowboy mentality is not what was intended....clarification needed.

[Luisa]

Too bad there was no police presence in Portland Sunday night.
GRAPHIC VIOLENCE! Antifa/BLM! Young man violently assaulted in Portland by radical militants - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSe_BSQb_H4)

Black men kicking a white man in the head when he was already barely conscious. Despicable! Where is the social justice? If BLM and their supporters were of good moral character and not the real racist, they would have protests equal to Floyd’s. Did mainstream media even report this. Disgusting hypocrisy!

[Luisa]

Minneapolis has a POLICE problem. They have an inflexible, fascist Police Union leader that protects rogue officers. I believe in most unions, but this one, in particular, is real bad. So, they HAVE to try something? The city is forced to. I would suggest volunteer college students ride along in the cruisers as observers to try to prevent or document Police overreach. The Colleges are often closed, so that would be something positive that students could do with their extra time and get experience. Trying something new when there is a problem is basic to problem solving.
Minneapolis Police Unions have gone too far. Where DO you go when you've gone too far?
I don’t recall hearing about any particular problems in Minneapolis. I was under the impression it was a nice city. I have heard a lot of bad reports about crime in Chicago and Baltimore.

[Luisa]

US rookie Police get about 1/10 the training of European Police. That's why we have so many rogue ones slip through. But, it may be because cities and states do not have enough $ for training in their budgets.
Rogue police are rare!

[Byte1]

All this talk, all I know is a handcuffed man, on the ground, posing no threat, was kneeled on and murder. Now you can quote all the studies you read on the internet (we know how true they are) but the fact remains, a black man was murdered while in handcuffs by a white officer.

Another video shows how that "black man" was professionally arrested and placed into the patrol car and the two officers then attempted to handle the other two subjects. While they were distracted, Floyd escaped from the patrol vehicle before he was apprehended again. He was placed on the ground in order to regain control of him and held down by the officer's knee. This is common practice, however the placement of the knee may have been done improperly. Whether he died as a result of the knee placement of the drugs and his medical condition will be revealed in court.
Just because one does not approve of law enforcement work, does not give one a reason to assume that all cops are bad or that every "black man" is unjustly apprehended or abused. There is always two sides to every incident, and if I am on the jury, I will always take the officer's side until proven that he handled the incident ILLEGALLY. It is up to the prosecutor, not media to prove malicious intent.

[Byte1]

In practice OPPORTUNITY is NOT 100% or equal for everybody in the US. In fact, the US is behind the UK in UPWARD MOBILITY (I seem to remember we are abut 20th and the UK is 11th. In fact we are behind Estonia). And "pride or laziness" is an oversimplification. Education is not equal. Health is not equal. If Blacks or anyone has LESS heath than the average WHITE, then certainly that BLACK will appear to be "lazy". It takes some sensitive empathy to remember the historic affects of Jim Crow laws and restricted voting (which is going on today) and other Historic degradation to ambition and self esteem that the Black race was forced to endure. And do I feel guilty ---- Yes, somewhat. And even more about treatment of Native Americans!

Sounds like excuses to me. Time to quit making excuses for bad behavior and poor work ethics. It's easy for folks to make excuses for those that are just plain lazy when they do not have to deal with the results. I've worked with folks that could not be terminated. All lazy does is make more work for others. Then the lazy complain about not getting equal treatment. I do not believe in blatant equality. I believe in opportunity based on ability and motivation, coupled with good work ethics. I do not believe in FREE college and I do not believe in welfare boosting anyone to the middle class lifestyle. Welfare should only be sufficient to maintain life, not lifestyle.

[ruralgoddess]

exactly

[ruralgoddess]

exactly wjo is this they you identify as the troublemakers?

[hipplepi]

I didn't know that "black people being *shot* by white police" was the issue, so much as black people being chased, shot, tazed, accused, jailed, charged, beat up, battered, physically assaulted by white police, more than white people who were under suspicion of the same crimes.

the group of persons who are committing the most crime
will have the most interactions with Police!

[Bay Kid]

Sounds like excuses to me. Time to quit making excuses for bad behavior and poor work ethics. It's easy for folks to make excuses for those that are just plain lazy when they do not have to deal with the results. I've worked with folks that could not be terminated. All lazy does is make more work for others. Then the lazy complain about not getting equal treatment. I do not believe in blatant equality. I believe in opportunity based on ability and motivation, coupled with good work ethics. I do not believe in FREE college and I do not believe in welfare boosting anyone to the middle class lifestyle. Welfare should only be sufficient to maintain life, not lifestyle.

Well said. Wait until we give free everything if you can just cross the country line.