CDD 5 supervisors vote to end anonymous complaint system

[DeanFL]

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Personally, I am AOK with this initial move. Never did agree with the 'Anonymous' system. There are Pros & Cons, but IMO the CONS outweigh significantly.
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From the 'online news site'>

Community Development District 5 supervisors have voted to end the anonymous complaint system that has been a crucial part of deed compliance in The Villages.

This marks a sea of change in the love/hate relationship when it comes to anonymous complaints.The CDD 5 board voted 3-2 on Friday to end the process which has been aimed at preserving harmony in the neighborhood.

“I am not a believer that anonymous complaints are good,” said CDD 5 Chairman Gary Kadow. He said 96 percent of complaints that come into Community Standards are anonymous. “I don’t think it’s any secret that we’ve got people driving around setting themselves up as the police. Maybe they feel empowered,” Kadow said.

Village of Bonnybrook resident Jim Shields agreed and called the anonymous complaint system “divisive” and “detrimental.” He said that “significant” issues should be addressed “neighbor to neighbor.”

Two supervisors stood firm in their support of the anonymous complaint system. “Most residents don’t want to give their name, address and phone number. They don’t want to talk to their neighbor. They don’t want that relationship to go south. They don’t want to be the heavy,” said Supervisor Jerry Knoll. He predicted the number of violations will go up. “It will impact the appearance of the neighborhood,” Knoll said.

Supervisor Chuck Wildzunas agreed. He said the vote to change the process was “totally inappropriate.”

However, Knoll and Wildzunas found themselves in the minority. Supervisor Jerry Ferlisi called it a welcome change. “We all have a right to face our accuser,” Ferlisi said. He added that if the change doesn’t work, the board could reverse its decision.

Supervisor Walter Martin said he bought his home in The Villages in 2004. He said a major selling point was the clean and neat appearance of the community. But he said times change. “The board should be amenable to change,” he said.

In a roll call vote, Kadow, Ferlisi and Martin supported the change. Wildzunas and Knoll voted against it. The change will not take take effect immediately.

The rule change and actual language will have to be advertised to the public for 28 days. The board will take a final vote in October.

[Stu from NYC]

Seems like a needed change.

Friends from an older part of TV said they have heard of two women who ride around the better part of the day looking for houses they can report.

[CFrance]

I thought this was a developer's rule. How can that be changed?

[Goldwingnut]

Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

[Kilmacowen]

Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

A house in Duval had Halloween , Christmas and Valentine decoration s all at the same , last March.

[Villageswimmer]

Bad move IMO. There are some real hotheads out there who will refuse to take care of their property then over react when a complaint is made. Someone could get hurt.

[Nevermore]

And you should only be able to complain about houses in your immediate area.

[Marathon Man]

Seems like a needed change.

Friends from an older part of TV said they have heard of two women who ride around the better part of the day looking for houses they can report.

Yes, yes. It's always someone HEARD about two women. There are about 10,000 people out there wanting to take a picture of them, but it has never happened. Can't take a picture of a myth.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

This is going to ruin the villages. People will now do whatever they want , the post above be careful what you wish for. , in these times no one is going to complain no matter how bad we he violation is

[Marathon Man]

Predition:

Violations in that district will increase dramatically. Neighborhoods will begin to look less attractive and will become less desirable to house hunters. Residents will begin to complain that their homes don't sell as easily as in other districts.

[dewilson58]

No big deal.............create a new gmail account and use a neighbor's name.


I'm using: ISpy@gmail.com. My name is Nucky



:1rotfl:

[Kenswing]

Yes, yes. It's always someone HEARD about two women. There are about 10,000 people out there wanting to take a picture of them, but it has never happened. Can't take a picture of a myth.
Maybe they are Bigfoot's sisters.. lol

[retiredguy123]

If the overall goal of the violation and complaint system is to reduce violations, this will not help. And, it certainly won't make the system less "divisive". A violation is a violation, regardless of how it was reported or who reported it.

As far as I know, I don't have any violations, and, if I do, I don't care how I hear about it. I will just fix it because I want to be in full compliance.

[Kenswing]

No big deal.............create a new gmail account and use a neighbor's name.


I'm using: ISpy@gmail.com. My name is Nucky



:1rotfl:Dang.. I was going to use Nucky. I guess I'll just have to use D. Wilson now.. lol

[Stu from NYC]

Dang.. I was going to use Nucky. I guess I'll just have to use D. Wilson now.. lol

For a few bucks most names are for sale

[Stu from NYC]

Yes, yes. It's always someone HEARD about two women. There are about 10,000 people out there wanting to take a picture of them, but it has never happened. Can't take a picture of a myth.

Or it could be an urban legend.

They did seem to be sure this is true though for whatever it is worth.

[Jayhawk]

And you should only be able to complain about houses in your immediate area.

So it's ok for backyard sheds and 12 year olds living in The Villages as long as not in your neighborhood?

Nevermind, I see your approving arguments on this in previous posts.

[shut the front door]

Yes, yes. It's always someone HEARD about two women. There are about 10,000 people out there wanting to take a picture of them, but it has never happened. Can't take a picture of a myth.

I've seen them more than once. I don't stop to take a pic because I really don't care whether you believe it or not. I wouldn't be hell bent on telling everybody they don't exist unless I was the one with the clipboard.

[DeanFL]

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IMO this 'overseeing' and reporting should be open and 'legal'. Perhaps a Committee of an officially sanctioned group of residents in each CDD responsible to identify and report to CDD infractions. Allow each group to have this official responsibility. No anonymity. And the "accused" homeowner can face the "accuser".
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[vintageogauge]

Those two women were reported to be working south of 44, they must rent a golf car to make their weekly rounds down here or maybe there are 4 of them. They gotta be getting pretty old by now, maybe they're training new recruits for the southern villages.

[Stu from NYC]

Those two women were reported to be working south of 44, they must rent a golf car to make their weekly rounds down here or maybe there are 4 of them. They gotta be getting pretty old by now, maybe they're training new recruits for the southern villages.

According to my florist a group of contractors have gotten together to offer a reward for people making these complaints figuring it will generate extra jobs for them.

How is that for a conspiracy theory?

[tvbound]

It's been interesting to follow the various threads on this issue. While I hope our eventual home will comply with all of the required deed restrictions (after all, we will have agreed to doing so when we sign the papers) if it doesn't I would have no problem being told so. As far as who is reporting me, I couldn't care less as I'm either in compliance, or I'm not. Even the police use anonymous tips, to minimize the potential of retribution or payback, and I would think the same reasoning would apply to those reporting a lack of compliance. As I understand it, the non-compliance has to be investigated by a TV representative before action can be taken, so what is the purpose of demanding to know the person who reported it? "Facing your accuser" doesn't apply in this case, since the actual accuser will be the TV rep after they've investigated and I'll know who that is when they contact me.

[Velvet]

The reason for crime stoppers anonymous is that it is harder to take retribution. Why would you want to intimidate someone who tries to uphold the rules? If their reports are inaccurate nothing is going to happen anyways.

If the anonymous reporting stops I would like it to be replaced by paid regular inspectors to enforce the deed restrictions that we all accepted. There should be a referendum held on this topic. Let us see what the majority of the home owners want.

I would not like to see TV turn into a trailer park.

[villagetinker]

Well since the genie is now out of the bottle, here are my 2 cents: This is a proposal to LIMIT the complaints to only those who live in the vicinity of the offense while still maintaining an anonymous system. I am sure this suggestion can be improved, but I think it is a start.

The CDDs through the VCDD would use this new procedure.

1. Anyone desiring to file a written, but anonymous complaint would be required to get a form from the VCDD (either online on at the office). Phoned in complaints will no longer be accepted.

2. The complainer would fill out the form, which would include the nature of the complaint, the location of the infraction, and whether it is a serious infraction. Serious infractions would involve, buildings, water flow/drainage, infraction of build lines, permits, etc. Minor infractions would typically be signs, lawn ornaments, pink flamingos, etc.

3. The completed form would need to presented in person, with complainer’s village photo ID to the VCDD. The reason for this is that going forward, only people living in the same village would be allowed to file complaints in that village.

4. There will be a charge to be paid for each complaint filed, cash only. My thought, if the fee is high enough, it will limit the number of complaints, and only the more serious ones will actually be filed.

5. If the review board finds the complaint to be valid, then the existing procedures will be used to get the property into compliance.

This is being present for discussion, please be kind with comments, thank you.

[Velvet]

And I’d like to see the charge to file financially compensated or even rewarded as you would have to do if you hire people as inspectors. Otherwise you are punishing the person who is trying to do the right thing!

Nuisance and unwarranted claims are a different thing completely. If the claim is unwarranted then the person filing it should be charged for the time wasted by officials. There has to be a way of discouraging them.

[retiredguy123]

I don't see how the proposed new rules will improve anything. It will just allow more people to violate the rules and get away with it. If I have a violation, I'll fix it. No problem.

If the complainer pays a fee to file the complaint, I think the VCDD is legally obligated to correct bona fide violations, or they are accepting money under false pretense. Why doesn't the violator pay the fee?

[thelegges]

Yes, yes. It's always someone HEARD about two women. There are about 10,000 people out there wanting to take a picture of them, but it has never happened. Can't take a picture of a myth.

There are pictures out there, most were picked up by outside cameras. More than one resident took cell phone pics as they would do drive by in multiple neighborhoods, with more than 50 complaints in a week. The 90 yo veteran that had to change landscape that had been there many years was a very sad story.

[Carla B]

When we first moved here I thought Community Watch would report violations, or did I just dream that?

[Marathon Man]

I've seen them more than once. I don't stop to take a pic because I really don't care whether you believe it or not. I wouldn't be hell bent on telling everybody they don't exist unless I was the one with the clipboard.

And the always "it must be you comment". Because after all, we need to try to silence those that apply fact and logic.

[EdFNJ]

There are pictures out there, most were picked up by outside cameras. More than one resident took cell phone pics as they would do drive by in multiple neighborhoods, with more than 50 complaints in a week. The 90 yo veteran that had to change landscape that had been there many years was a very sad story.




My night vision camera caught 'em ..... trying to enlarge the clipboad.




https://i.postimg.cc/4yfh4RQs/ladies.jpg

[graciegirl]

Well since the genie is now out of the bottle, here are my 2 cents: This is a proposal to LIMIT the complaints to only those who live in the vicinity of the offense while still maintaining an anonymous system. I am sure this suggestion can be improved, but I think it is a start.

The CDDs through the VCDD would use this new procedure.

1. Anyone desiring to file a written, but anonymous complaint would be required to get a form from the VCDD (either online on at the office). Phoned in complaints will no longer be accepted.

2. The complainer would fill out the form, which would include the nature of the complaint, the location of the infraction, and whether it is a serious infraction. Serious infractions would involve, buildings, water flow/drainage, infraction of build lines, permits, etc. Minor infractions would typically be signs, lawn ornaments, pink flamingos, etc.

3. The completed form would need to presented in person, with complainer’s village photo ID to the VCDD. The reason for this is that going forward, only people living in the same village would be allowed to file complaints in that village.

4. There will be a charge to be paid for each complaint filed, cash only. My thought, if the fee is high enough, it will limit the number of complaints, and only the more serious ones will actually be filed.

5. If the review board finds the complaint to be valid, then the existing procedures will be used to get the property into compliance.

This is being present for discussion, please be kind with comments, thank you.


Oh thank you sir for this clarification. I feel much relieved. That is a good idea indeed.

[twoplanekid]

Well since the genie is now out of the bottle, here are my 2 cents: This is a proposal to LIMIT the complaints to only those who live in the vicinity of the offense while still maintaining an anonymous system. I am sure this suggestion can be improved, but I think it is a start.

The CDDs through the VCDD would use this new procedure.

1. Anyone desiring to file a written, but anonymous complaint would be required to get a form from the VCDD (either online on at the office). Phoned in complaints will no longer be accepted.

2. The complainer would fill out the form, which would include the nature of the complaint, the location of the infraction, and whether it is a serious infraction. Serious infractions would involve, buildings, water flow/drainage, infraction of build lines, permits, etc. Minor infractions would typically be signs, lawn ornaments, pink flamingos, etc.

3. The completed form would need to presented in person, with complainer’s village photo ID to the VCDD. The reason for this is that going forward, only people living in the same village would be allowed to file complaints in that village.

4. There will be a charge to be paid for each complaint filed, cash only. My thought, if the fee is high enough, it will limit the number of complaints, and only the more serious ones will actually be filed.

5. If the review board finds the complaint to be valid, then the existing procedures will be used to get the property into compliance.

This is being present for discussion, please be kind with comments, thank you.

It's my understanding of Florida law that everything turned into a local public agency would be very difficult to keep from public view. Thus, the system would not be anonymous. If data (names/addresses) are turned in they can be viewed by the public.

[JoMar]

Seems like a needed change.

Friends from an older part of TV said they have heard of two women who ride around the better part of the day looking for houses they can report.

Yet they have never been identified, described or, with all the smartphones, have had their photo taken or published. Urban legend.

[Villageswimmer]

There are pictures out there, most were picked up by outside cameras. More than one resident took cell phone pics as they would do drive by in multiple neighborhoods, with more than 50 complaints in a week. The 90 yo veteran that had to change landscape that had been there many years was a very sad story.

Myths abound.
I don’t believe any of this. Last I heard, the 90 yo veteran was 80. He aged significantly in a couple of weeks.
Some people believe anything.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It's been interesting to follow the various threads on this issue. While I hope our eventual home will comply with all of the required deed restrictions (after all, we will have agreed to doing so when we sign the papers) if it doesn't I would have no problem being told so. As far as who is reporting me, I couldn't care less as I'm either in compliance, or I'm not. Even the police use anonymous tips, to minimize the potential of retribution or payback, and I would think the same reasoning would apply to those reporting a lack of compliance. As I understand it, the non-compliance has to be investigated by a TV representative before action can be taken, so what is the purpose of demanding to know the person who reported it? "Facing your accuser" doesn't apply in this case, since the actual accuser will be the TV rep after they've investigated and I'll know who that is when they contact me.

...and if there's someone you met at a restaurant, who has decided he has a beef with you and finds out where you live -

he can MAKE UP FAKE OFFENSES and submit formal complaints against you, and there's nothing you can do about it, and there's nothing the compliance people can do about it, for as long as he is allowed to do so anonymously.

I've only heard of this happening once. But it has, and can, happen. Pretty sure it was an ex-husband or ex-boyfriend or former best friend, someone who knew the resident and had a falling out with them. They submitted several complaints, spaced apart by a few weeks, bringing the compliance folks over to her house fairly regularly to check out the complaints. They had to, because they had no way of knowing who the person making the complaint was, and had no way of knowing that the person making the complaint wasn't even a Villager.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The reason for crime stoppers anonymous is that it is harder to take retribution. Why would you want to intimidate someone who tries to uphold the rules? If their reports are inaccurate nothing is going to happen anyways.

If the anonymous reporting stops I would like it to be replaced by paid regular inspectors to enforce the deed restrictions that we all accepted. There should be a referendum held on this topic. Let us see what the majority of the home owners want.

I would not like to see TV turn into a trailer park.

First off - TV was founded as a trailer park. That's what it was, by definition, when Harold Schwartz built it. The "historic side" still has some of the original single-wides in it, and your snooty attitude toward trailer parks is frankly insulting. Yes there's such a thing as "trailer trash" but the Villages, even the Historic side, is generally not that. And - there are trailer trash who live in the nice areas right now. You can't tell by looking at their pristine lawns, but they are trailer trash from head to heart. You can tell them by how they behave at City Fire after their fourth happy-hour drink.

So can it with the trailer park nonsense.

Second off - MY neighborhood is gorgeous. Unlike the sardine cans that the rest of you call courtyard villa neighborhoods, MY neighborhood allows for us to display some actual personality. No, we are not allowed to put cars up on cinder blocks. No, tacky pink flamingos generally don't end up on lawns. There are very few political flags or signs displayed prominently anywhere. The lawns are in excellent condition, and people take pride in their property.

Third - anonymous reporting doesn't HAVE to mean that Community Standards can't know who's making the complaint. It only means the property being complained about doesn't get told who's making the complaint. Community Standards can still check to make sure that a) the person making the complaint is a Villager and b) the person making the complaint lives in the general vicinity of the property being complained about.

If an e-mail address is provided, then state law requires that the information be made publicly available. But a complainant shouldn't necessarily have to provide that information, or put it in writing. CS simply needs to see an ID, and perhaps mark the complaint with a code so they can identify the complainant, if that person turns out to be a harassing troll rather than a sincerely concerned resident.

[Velvet]

My parents had a house on the historic side for decades (close to Mr Schwartz’ house actually) and I was very happy to visit, but it had to be sold when they died and my children weren’t allowed to live there.

I simply believe that if we buy into the deed restrictions in the first place then we need to live by them. It is more restrictive at Mallory, but I bought there because it was close to Barnes and Nobel.

[Knighterrant]

I fail to understand why the anonymous system causes such animosity and debate. If an owner has violated a rule, what does it matter who the person reporting the violation is or where the person reporting the violation lives. The violator should correct the issue.

People who are unwilling to follow rules are typically the same people who are unwilling to listen to feedback regarding rules - regardless of how reasonable such feedback is presented. I completely understand why most people don’t want to directly confront such people.

And if I read one post correctly, there is a suggestion the person reporting the violation should have to drive somewhere to file the complaint in person and pay a fee! Ridiculous.

Here is a suggestion - if the violation is legitimate, TV should pay the person reporting the violation a fee as a thank you for their time and effort helping our community conform to the rules we agreed to when we purchased our home. TV can recoup the fee from the violator.

Such fees might discourage people from violating the rules in the first place. Less violations results in less reporting. Less reporting, and those mythical “trolls” can retire.

[Jayhawk]

Most of the people who don't like the anonymous reporting system are the very ones who are violating the deed restrictions. I've lived with DR's most of my adult life and have never seen so many who want to break the rules we ALL agreed to when we bought here. Then they complain about the so-called but unverified "trolls" who report them.

:sigh:

[EdFNJ]

The 90 yo veteran that had to change landscape that had been there many years was a very sad story.

Myths abound.
I don’t believe any of this. Last I heard, the 90 yo veteran was 80. He aged significantly in a couple of weeks.
Some people believe anything. And whether the alleged veteran was 80 or 90 had he not broken the rules "many years ago" (when he was 60, 70 or 80) he wouldn't have had any problems now. He should be thanked for his service but still have to follow all the rules we do. There is such a large number of vets here would that mean they should all be excluded from any violations?

[Two Bills]

So it's ok for backyard sheds and 12 year olds living in The Villages as long as not in your neighborhood?

Nevermind, I see your approving arguments on this in previous posts.

I believe that restriction is the Beloved Leaders responsibilty, not that the rule ever seems to be enforced.

[crash]

I thought this was a developer's rule. How can that be changed?

The developer doesn’t own these properties anymore that is what the cdd is for. The problem here is that is only one district so not all are changing.

[Trishakaye]

Yes, yes. It's always someone HEARD about two women. There are about 10,000 people out there wanting to take a picture of them, but it has never happened. Can't take a picture of a myth.

A gentleman in Village of LaBelle took a picture of 2 women in a golf cart with a clip board. The women were taking a second look to see if their complaint about a ceramic turtle had been addressed

[Bay Kid]

Heck, in Virginia our governor has a phone number to turn people in for things they don't like. Being a tatatail is the new norm.

[mcwood4d]

Those two women were reported to be working south of 44, they must rent a golf car to make their weekly rounds down here or maybe there are 4 of them. They gotta be getting pretty old by now, maybe they're training new recruits for the southern villages.

I've witnessed this a few times in our village (Dunedin), got out of an suv with Lake County plates and wandered around with clipboard talking among themselves and pointing. I didn't think anything of it at the time. Thought perhaps they were looking for landscape ideas. Did this with my wife while considering driveway coatings.

[Stu from NYC]

And whether the alleged veteran was 80 or 90 had he not broken the rules "many years ago" (when he was 60, 70 or 80) he wouldn't have had any problems now. He should be thanked for his service but still have to follow all the rules we do. There is such a large number of vets here would that mean they should all be excluded from any violations?

The idea of people traveling our area looking for violations so they can turn in their neighbors makes my skin crawl.

[retiredguy123]

I would suggest that everyone print out a copy of their deed restrictions and read them.

Then, walk around the house and remove any items that violate the restrictions.

[Skunky1]

A sign of your faith can go in the backyard I don’t need to see it. But then on the other hand if you really want to trash up the place let’s all put on our favorite little trinkets and treasures and statues in the front yard for all to see. How about Snow White and the seven dwarfs, goofy now there’s a good one how about a 6 foot statue of goofy. How about we all put statues and shrines to our faith in our front yard. We have Buddhism, Shintoism, atheism, and on and on and on. How about a swastika? That is a symbol of some peoples faith in this world! Your symbol is no more important than their symbol. Be careful what you wish for. The United States is a melting pot of all religions and Faith‘s .

[graciegirl]

The idea of people traveling our area looking for violations so they can turn in their neighbors makes my skin crawl.

I hope that all people realize that keeping our property to Community Standards makes The Villages nicely kept and beautiful. And reporting someone anonymously is a somewhat easier thing to do than telling them to their face, unless you have been raised to be outspoken.

If everyone were allowed to embellish and add and be creative and have their "individuality" shine, this place could be a mess in no time.

We came back to our new home in Hadley when we first lived here part time to find literally dozens of little "gookies and gee gaws and ceramic thingys " in the yard of a very near neighbor. I quickly phoned community standards and told them.

One of the reasons many of us chose the Villages is because of deed restrictions. I find that the anonymous reporting may be chicken to some but far easier for others. I don't see anything WRONG about someone seeing something in another neighborhood obviously not allowed and reporting it. That doesn't make my skin crawl at all.

Grace from Ohio.

[arbajeda]

The problem isn't with the complaints, it's with enforcement. As you may have noticed recently with all the riots going on, minor infractions aren't being prosecuted while major legal infractions are. Currently there is no means to evaluate the complaint to determine its effect on the neighborhood as a whole. Each district could establish a board of five or seven members (an odd number is important to avoid voting ties) to investigate the infraction. Those determined to be minor would be given a pass while more egregious infractions enforced. The name of the complainant would not have to be divulged.

Now if the complainant decided to press the issue beyond the district board to the ARC, their name would still be attached to the complaint and would become public knowledge.

[graciegirl]

I would suggest that everyone print out a copy of their deed restrictions and read them.

Then, walk around the house and remove any items that violate the restrictions.

Well said.

[Mohawksin]

The troll is the reporter. The accuser is the Standards Committee.

[graciegirl]

The problem isn't with the complaints, it's with enforcement. As you may have noticed recently with all the riots going on, minor infractions aren't being prosecuted while major legal infractions are. Currently there is no means to evaluate the complaint to determine its effect on the neighborhood as a whole. Each district could establish a board of five or seven members (an odd number is important to avoid voting ties) to investigate the infraction. Those determined to be minor would be given a pass while more egregious infractions enforced. The name of the complainant would not have to be divulged.

Now if the complainant decided to press the issue beyond the district board to the ARC, their name would still be attached to the complaint and would become public knowledge.

We already have a workable and fair way of enforcing. Plus some things are allowed with ARC approval. You need to ask. The Villages do not consider every complaint an infringement. Only those that are not approved by ARC.

If Deed Compliance determine that the complaint is valid, and all complaints are not valid, then there will be a notice given the homeowner and time for them to comply and then if that is ignored than a fine is given until the non compliance changes. If the fine is ignored there will be a lien placed on the property.

It works just fine that way.

[ldovermiller]

Here is a novel idea. We pay the Community Standards people to make sure the rules are enforced, why aren't they doing their
job to make sure the rules are followed. They drive around in their $50k white, 4x4 tucks all day ....what am I missing. DO YOUR JOB
or just get a person to answer the phone, run out and look for the violation. The complaint should only come from local residence!

[jbrown132]

Yes, yes. It's always someone HEARD about two women. There are about 10,000 people out there wanting to take a picture of them, but it has never happened. Can't take a picture of a myth.
I thing it may have been Bigfoot and the sister.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I hope that all people realize that keeping our property to Community Standards makes The Villages nicely kept and beautiful. And reporting someone anonymously is a somewhat easier thing to do than telling them to their face, unless you have been raised to be outspoken.

If everyone were allowed to embellish and add and be creative and have their "individuality" shine, this place could be a mess in no time.

We came back to our new home in Hadley when we first lived here part time to find all literally dozens of little "gookies and gee gaws and ceramic thingys " in the yard of a very near neighbor. I quickly phoned community standards and told them.

One of the reasons many of us chose the Villages is because of deed restrictions. I find that the anonymous reporting may be chicken to some but far easier for others. I don't see anything about someone seeing something in another neighborhood obviously not allowed and reporting it. That doesn't make my skin crawl at all.

Grace from Ohio.

Their neighbor couldn't have been all that dear, if you weren't able to resolve it between yourself and them and had to resort to outside help.

I smell a fable. Or a not-so-dear neighbor. Maybe one of those "bless your heart" kinds of neighbors.

[Joe C.]

Mr. Ferlisi says that we all have a right to face our accuser. This is true. It's in the Constitution of the U.S. . However, legally, this is true ONLY in criminal cases...not civil cases.

That said, it is true that a deed violation is A DEED VIOLATION. If you want to talk about "entitlement", then you will be surprised at how many homeowners are entitled to decorate their lawns and "enhance" their property as they see fit.

So all I have to say is:

There goes the neighborhood.......

[ctmurray]

Seems like a needed change.

Friends from an older part of TV said they have heard of two women who ride around the better part of the day looking for houses they can report.

Yet no one has photo evidence. Might be a rumor?

[ctmurray]

Here is a novel idea. We pay the Community Standards people to make sure the rules are enforced, why aren't they doing their
job to make sure the rules are followed. They drive around in their $50k white, 4x4 tucks all day ....what am I missing. DO YOUR JOB
or just get a person to answer the phone, run out and look for the violation. The complaint should only come from local residence!
Actually, this is not their job. We would have to pay for much more as they would have to stop at many houses, write down the details, possibly put a note on their doors, submit the paperwork back at the office. The current method works, the complaints are legitimate.

[ctmurray]

The problem isn't with the complaints, it's with enforcement. As you may have noticed recently with all the riots going on, minor infractions aren't being prosecuted while major legal infractions are. Currently there is no means to evaluate the complaint to determine its effect on the neighborhood as a whole. Each district could establish a board of five or seven members (an odd number is important to avoid voting ties) to investigate the infraction. Those determined to be minor would be given a pass while more egregious infractions enforced. The name of the complainant would not have to be divulged.

Now if the complainant decided to press the issue beyond the district board to the ARC, their name would still be attached to the complaint and would become public knowledge.
Florida Law makes every communication public. So no keeping a name secret for the first round of review you mentioned. This is why the anonymous system need to be around. Otherwise, forever, you could be targeted for rightly pointing out a violation.

[graciegirl]

Here is a novel idea. We pay the Community Standards people to make sure the rules are enforced, why aren't they doing their
job to make sure the rules are followed. They drive around in their $50k white, 4x4 tucks all day ....what am I missing. DO YOUR JOB
or just get a person to answer the phone, run out and look for the violation. The complaint should only come from local residence!

This is how taxes go up. Add a level of responsibility that requires more time and work. I like that how we do it is not adding cost to anything. Add a little here and a little there and SOMEBODY has to pay for it.

The Villages Watch is doing their job and they aren't paid much for it but watching and reporting unusual happenings to the police and telling folks they left their garage door up and coming when they are called to be a "connector" to other services is very helpful. They are our not expensive but appreciated neighbors and they are not appreciated ENOUGH until you live here for several years.

[Stu from NYC]

I hope that all people realize that keeping our property to Community Standards makes The Villages nicely kept and beautiful. And reporting someone anonymously is a somewhat easier thing to do than telling them to their face, unless you have been raised to be outspoken.

If everyone were allowed to embellish and add and be creative and have their "individuality" shine, this place could be a mess in no time.

We came back to our new home in Hadley when we first lived here part time to find literally dozens of little "gookies and gee gaws and ceramic thingys " in the yard of a very near neighbor. I quickly phoned community standards and told them.

One of the reasons many of us chose the Villages is because of deed restrictions. I find that the anonymous reporting may be chicken to some but far easier for others. I don't see anything WRONG about someone seeing something in another neighborhood obviously not allowed and reporting it. That doesn't make my skin crawl at all.

Grace from Ohio.

To the best of our knowledge we have no violations and plan to keep it that way.

If I saw a neighbor with what I thought was a violation would mention it nicely to them. I do not think I would report them unless they were offensive but thats me.

To ride around the villages to look for people to report think those people have two have much time on their hands.

Will they also write down when we have grandchildren visiting to make sure they are gone within 30 days?

What else will they be watching us for?

[Skunky1]

It is a resident complaint driven system according to the Standards filed by the developer at the clerk of the court

[Outofjersey]

That seems to be the trend lately the people who break the rules are getting more and more rights

[stan the man]

Seems like a needed change.

Friends from an older part of TV said they have heard of two women who ride around the better part of the day looking for houses they can report.

Did you buy that bridge?

[MoNonnon]

Sounds good to me

[stan the man]

Give the community watch the power to report violations....Problem solved...How many tips received by the police department are anonymous!!!!!!

[Villageswimmer]

Many people do this for landscape ideas. Maybe MYOB.

[tophcfa]

I am a big fan of deed restrictions, they keep our neighborhoods looking like the neighborhood we committed our retirement savings to. But then again, do they really matter? Your neighbor can’t put a little white cross in her garden, but it’s perfectly fine to have a high density apartment complex built right across the street. Something doesn’t add up?

[wereback]

When we first moved to the Villages in 2000 the men in neighborhood watch would note any compliance items on there drives around the villages they turned it in and you received a visit or a letter.

[Ndomines]

NUTS.
It’s a big pain to deal with but is a necessary inconvenience.
If you get ratted out by Mrs CRAVITS then deal with it or move to Spanish Springs. EVERYONE will not comply with what we ALL SIGNED UP FOR. THERE WILL BE HATE CONFLICTS

We all know your neighbors’ cherry picking the standards invalidates the intent. WIND CHIMES outside your bedroom window! Cars months on end in driveways with flat tires! TRASH by the curb days in advance of pick up. LAWN JOCKEYS.

IF A NUT CASE MAKES REPEATED UNWARRANTED COMPLAINTS then enact a policy to pursue harassment charges in court.
LIKE THE COLOR WHEEL LIST ACCEPTABLE YARD OR HOUSE DECORATIONS.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR

[Villageswimmer]

I hope that all people realize that keeping our property to Community Standards makes The Villages nicely kept and beautiful. And reporting someone anonymously is a somewhat easier thing to do than telling them to their face, unless you have been raised to be outspoken.

If everyone were allowed to embellish and add and be creative and have their "individuality" shine, this place could be a mess in no time.

We came back to our new home in Hadley when we first lived here part time to find literally dozens of little "gookies and gee gaws and ceramic thingys " in the yard of a very near neighbor. I quickly phoned community standards and told them.

One of the reasons many of us chose the Villages is because of deed restrictions. I find that the anonymous reporting may be chicken to some but far easier for others. I don't see anything WRONG about someone seeing something in another neighborhood obviously not allowed and reporting it. That doesn't make my skin crawl at all.

Grace from Ohio.


I agree wholeheartedly. In our former neighborhood, we had a very volatile guy across the street who allowed weeds to take over, never trimmed shrubs and rarely had his lawn mowed. Do you think I’d go over and tell him to abide by the rules? Hell, no! The current system worked perfectly and no one needed to live in fear of retaliation.

[stan the man]

Do we not have enough Hate in this world .. Why not turn neighbor against neighbor

[Pennyt]

This is just the committee passing responsibility and pitting neighbor against neighbor. Horrible idea.

[theruizs]

You could have a system that is not anonymous without having to reveal who actually complained, except under certain circumstances. That is the way it should have always been, IMHO. No one should be able to file an anonymous complaint about anything. That way the system can track who is complaining and how often, etc. and possibly even restricting access for a time if necessary to avoid someone making a career out of it, or to stop frivolous complaints. But that does not mean the system has to reveal the complainer to the complainee. That is not a good idea, except possibly under certain circumstances (if some type of legal action is taken for example). Again, IMHO.

[TJ_Woody]

Perhaps a better way to handle complaints would be:

1) Reporter must live in the same village - no outsiders reporting

2) Reporter must provide their name, address, and phone number

3) When compliance goes out, the inspector inspects BOTH properties.

[eyc234]

Yes, yes. It's always someone HEARD about two women. There are about 10,000 people out there wanting to take a picture of them, but it has never happened. Can't take a picture of a myth.

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow: Ain't it amazin that two old women riding around in a golf cart, with a clip board, in a senior community where homeowners are out and about all day long and keep an eye out for suspicious activity have never been questioned, photographed or spoken to by even one of the thousands of people in the community. They must be better at disguises than Tom Hanks in Mission Impossible.

Follow the rules and your neighbors will stop reporting you.

[Joe C.]

NO.....Its not two women riding around in a golf cart......that's a rumor.

What I HAVE SEEN is Sasquatch riding around with a pen and clipboard in a souped up golf cart.

[eyc234]

.
.
.
IMO this 'overseeing' and reporting should be open and 'legal'. Perhaps a Committee of an officially sanctioned group of residents in each CDD responsible to identify and report to CDD infractions. Allow each group to have this official responsibility. No anonymity. And the "accused" homeowner can face the "accuser".
.
.
.

Huge question why do you need to face your accuser? If you have broken the rules to which you have agreed to follow, facing your accuser means nothing other than to create animosity and retributions. Does it matter how the offender is reported? Whether there is an official reporter or not, the fact of the matter is if an investigation shows an infraction of the deed compliance rules you are guilty and are required to remedy the infraction to meet the deed compliance. Any other discussion is mute.

[theruizs]

Huge question why do you need to face your accuser? If you have broken the rules to which you have agreed to follow, facing your accuser means nothing other than to create animosity and retributions. Does it matter how the offender is reported? Whether there is an official reporter or not, the fact of the matter is if an investigation shows an infraction of the deed compliance rules you are guilty and are required to remedy the infraction to meet the deed compliance. Any other discussion is mute.

Agree. Besides, the accuser is actually deed enforcement. The complainer just notifies deed enforcement of a possible violation. Deed enforcement checks it out and if vaild they contact the home owner. So the homeowner actually does face his/her accuser. There is no valid reason the conplainee needs to know who complained.

[Velvet]

My night vision camera caught 'em ..... trying to enlarge the clipboad.




https://i.postimg.cc/4yfh4RQs/ladies.jpg

Looking at this photo: the ladies look quite young, from their neckline and toned calves, to have nothing else to do. They seem to have a golf club bag with clubs in the back of the golf cart. And if they were caught by night vision, then they were driving by at night. Might be hard to see any infarctions in the dark. To me it looks like they were returning from a game of late in the day golf. But I could be wrong.

[jagdl]

This does not mean that yards can be out of compliance. The complaint can still be filed and the homeowner can still be forced into compliance. It just means you know who complained. If the trolls want to keep their vigilance they just have to put down their names. It is better than suspecting 95% of your neighbors for the trivial complaint than knowing the one who was displeased.

[retiredguy123]

This does not mean that yards can be out of compliance. The complaint can still be filed and the homeowner can still be forced into compliance. It just means you know who complained. If the trolls want to keep their vigilance they just have to put down their names. It is better than suspecting 95% of your neighbors for the trivial complaint than knowing the one who was displeased.
But, if the purpose for having a compliance enforcement system is to increase compliance, this new method will surely result in decreasing, not increasing compliance. The exact opposite of what you are trying to achieve. It makes no sense.

[Villageswimmer]

This does not mean that yards can be out of compliance. The complaint can still be filed and the homeowner can still be forced into compliance. It just means you know who complained. If the trolls want to keep their vigilance they just have to put down their names. It is better than suspecting 95% of your neighbors for the trivial complaint than knowing the one who was displeased.

See post 72. If you’re out of compliance, who cares if you suspect “95% of your neighbors” ? If you don’t think there are nut jobs who live here that would intimidate—or worse—you’re sadly mistaken.

No one should have to put up with a neighbor who doesn’t abide by rules because they’re frightened as to how he’ll react.

The system may not be perfect, but it does protect residents. And it should.

[bellbuoy8]

We pay dearly into Community Watch.! Why can’t they report what they see, as part of them r duties?

[justjim]

Sounds like the committee who was suppose to create a better horse and managed to create a Camel. Pitting neighbor against neighbor is not a good idea IMHO. Yep, careful what you wish for.

[Spikearoni]

Huge question why do you need to face your accuser? If you have broken the rules to which you have agreed to follow, facing your accuser means nothing other than to create animosity and retributions. Does it matter how the offender is reported? Whether there is an official reporter or not, the fact of the matter is if an investigation shows an infraction of the deed compliance rules you are guilty and are required to remedy the infraction to meet the deed compliance. Any other discussion is mute.

Well said. I think the advantages of anonymous reporting outweigh the other arguments. I am concerned about the deteriorating appearance of properties here without anonymous reports. I also worry about how unfriendly The Villages will become if reports are made without the benefit of anonymity. So, now that the 3-2 decision was made, what happens next? Does anyone know?

[Topspinmo]

I thought this was a developer's rule. How can that be changed?


Not in district developer sold out.

[Topspinmo]

Well said. I think the advantages of anonymous reporting outweigh the other arguments. I am concerned about the deteriorating appearance of properties here without anonymous reports. I also worry about how unfriendly The Villages will become if reports are made without the benefit of anonymity. So, now that the 3-2 decision was made, what happens next? Does anyone know?

They could of made not so trolling? How? By putting village ID on the complaint. This clears up several concerns. You have to be villages resident, you have live in that district to file complaint. No ID number, trashed, don’t live in that district, trashed. No one but district authorities would know who turned in the complaint and villager has to live in that district due to all district don’t have the exact same rules.

[Topspinmo]

We pay dearly into Community Watch.! Why can’t they report what they see, as part of them r duties?


Each district have some differences in rules. IMO only it will work is have to be villager and living i. That district, name don’t have to be revealed with village ID number and not public information.

[Topspinmo]

This is how taxes go up. Add a level of responsibility that requires more time and work. I like that how we do it is not adding cost to anything. Add a little here and a little there and SOMEBODY has to pay for it.

The Villages Watch is doing their job and they aren't paid much for it but watching and reporting unusual happenings to the police and telling folks they left their garage door up and coming when they are called to be a "connector" to other services is very helpful. They are our not expensive but appreciated neighbors and they are not appreciated ENOUGH until you live here for several years.

Taxes always go up, you may get 10 cent break occasionally, but down the road the get it back and 400% plus more.

[Topspinmo]

This is going to ruin the villages. People will now do whatever they want , the post above be careful what you wish for. , in these times no one is going to complain no matter how bad we he violation is


Only in district 5

[Jayhawk]

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow: They must be better at disguises than Tom Hanks in Mission Impossible.

Follow the rules and your neighbors will stop reporting you.

Tom Hanks was disguised as Tom Cruise in that movie.

[Topspinmo]

It's been interesting to follow the various threads on this issue. While I hope our eventual home will comply with all of the required deed restrictions (after all, we will have agreed to doing so when we sign the papers) if it doesn't I would have no problem being told so. As far as who is reporting me, I couldn't care less as I'm either in compliance, or I'm not. Even the police use anonymous tips, to minimize the potential of retribution or payback, and I would think the same reasoning would apply to those reporting a lack of compliance. As I understand it, the non-compliance has to be investigated by a TV representative before action can be taken, so what is the purpose of demanding to know the person who reported it? "Facing your accuser" doesn't apply in this case, since the actual accuser will be the TV rep after they've investigated and I'll know who that is when they contact me.

If you brought resale you could get blind sided cause there no Guarantee it was violation free. Majority probably has some kind of violations?

[yankygrl]

Only in district 5
The complaints should go DOWN. We all know of the trolls who drive around and look for issues. I have had a “neighbor”:turn me into compliance 2 times about a bush that is in the back yard of my villa. First time because it was over grown, (yes but not encroaching on anyone else’s property) second time same bush was “blocking” their sprinkler. Again if it was blocking the sprinkler then that sprinkler is on my property. I have yet to find out which neighbor. This week I’m calling community standards and want a representative to meet me there and tell me which neighbor it is.

[retiredguy123]

The complaints should go DOWN. We all know of the trolls who drive around and look for issues. I have had a “neighbor”:turn me into compliance 2 times about a bush that is in the back yard of my villa. First time because it was over grown, (yes but not encroaching on anyone else’s property) second time same bush was “blocking” their sprinkler. Again if it was blocking the sprinkler then that sprinkler is on my property. I have yet to find out which neighbor. This week I’m calling community standards and want a representative to meet me there and tell me which neighbor it is.
If you don't have a violation, why not just tell community standards that? If you are in compliance, you don't need to do anything.

[GPGuar]

Well since the genie is now out of the bottle, here are my 2 cents: This is a proposal to LIMIT the complaints to only those who live in the vicinity of the offense while still maintaining an anonymous system. I am sure this suggestion can be improved, but I think it is a start.

The CDDs through the VCDD would use this new procedure.

1. Anyone desiring to file a written, but anonymous complaint would be required to get a form from the VCDD (either online on at the office). Phoned in complaints will no longer be accepted.

2. The complainer would fill out the form, which would include the nature of the complaint, the location of the infraction, and whether it is a serious infraction. Serious infractions would involve, buildings, water flow/drainage, infraction of build lines, permits, etc. Minor infractions would typically be signs, lawn ornaments, pink flamingos, etc.

3. The completed form would need to presented in person, with complainer’s village photo ID to the VCDD. The reason for this is that going forward, only people living in the same village would be allowed to file complaints in that village.

4. There will be a charge to be paid for each complaint filed, cash only. My thought, if the fee is high enough, it will limit the number of complaints, and only the more serious ones will actually be filed.

5. If the review board finds the complaint to be valid, then the existing procedures will be used to get the property into compliance.

This is being present for discussion, please be kind with comments, thank you.
I think it’s a great idea, enough with these anonymous trolls I don’t live in the immediate neighborhood. My only concern is why Should there be a charge.

[Jayhawk]

I think it’s a great idea, enough with these anonymous trolls I don’t live in the immediate neighborhood. My only concern is why Should there be a charge.

Why care WHO reports the violation as long as YOU are in compliance?

[mjdollard]

Originally Posted by CFrance View Post
I thought this was a developer's rule. How can that be changed?

You are correct, or at least you were. The deed restrictions (section 8) could only be changed by the Developer. When the CDD's were set up over time the developer handed the power to change things to the CDD. Section 2.28 of the original deed restrictions also covers rules/regs and how changes are reserved to the Developer. This section includes that the Developer has 5 days to notify you of changes to deed restrictions. From the wording here and in the 42 pages of CDD rules I would expect a first class letter, if not a certified letter when this was instituted - it could be argued that no notice, no change. As to what CDD you are in - most CDD's in 5 to 10 read about the same.

Especially important in regards to the CDD "District Rules" that have been adopted - they add several significant changes including allowing anonymous complaints (It is no longer an 'Owner' it is 'the complainant') and adding that religious symbols are banned unless for seasonal display. I suppose that under that definition you could put up a white cross and pick your own season each month.

I do agree with several of the posts - you should have to live in the village where the subject property is located.

An observation - I was at the June meeting for CDD 9. The chairman of the board proposed a rule that you would need your neighbors written approval of the color before you could paint your house. Think about what could go wrong. BTW it failed for lack of a second.

[Arvilla]

We bought here because of a previous situation where we kept the peace by staying quiet. This will only junk up the lawns

[Stu from NYC]

If you brought resale you could get blind sided cause there no Guarantee it was violation free. Majority probably has some kind of violations?

Very interesting, how would the new buyer know?

[HappyRetired]

Well since the genie is now out of the bottle, here are my 2 cents: This is a proposal to LIMIT the complaints to only those who live in the vicinity of the offense while still maintaining an anonymous system. I am sure this suggestion can be improved, but I think it is a start.

The CDDs through the VCDD would use this new procedure.

1. Anyone desiring to file a written, but anonymous complaint would be required to get a form from the VCDD (either online on at the office). Phoned in complaints will no longer be accepted.

2. The complainer would fill out the form, which would include the nature of the complaint, the location of the infraction, and whether it is a serious infraction. Serious infractions would involve, buildings, water flow/drainage, infraction of build lines, permits, etc. Minor infractions would typically be signs, lawn ornaments, pink flamingos, etc.

3. The completed form would need to presented in person, with complainer’s village photo ID to the VCDD. The reason for this is that going forward, only people living in the same village would be allowed to file complaints in that village.

4. There will be a charge to be paid for each complaint filed, cash only. My thought, if the fee is high enough, it will limit the number of complaints, and only the more serious ones will actually be filed.

5. If the review board finds the complaint to be valid, then the existing procedures will be used to get the property into compliance.

This is being present for discussion, please be kind with comments, thank you.

This procedure sounds reasonable, particularly the written form and ID for proof that you live in the same village. The name doesn't have to be recorded--just proof you live there. I don't think we need to charge as in-person/same village might cut down on the trolls. Although, one thing to think about is phone calls to question if an "offence" is actually reportable. I've called on behalf of people who want to know if something is allowed within my *district* (not necessarily village) before initiating a complaint.

My biggest peeve is the trolls who don't live in the area of the complaint.

[Velvet]

So what was the reason behind the proposed change in district 5? I thought the previous way was cheap (you didn’t have to hire anyone) and working.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The community standards and ARC people are also members of that group of humanoids known as "anyone." There is no reason why THEY can't report violations as well. In fact - if they send someone out to handle a complaint against 123 Smith Drive reported in by Amos Jones, there's no reason why they can't notice that 125 Smith Drive next door has a shed in the back yard, and report that as a violation.

The reason they don't is arbitrary. They don't, because they don't. There's no reason why they can't. And if they choose not to report violations they SEE with their own eyes, then they should not have the authority to fine people who violate rules that are reported by anyone else. They should set the example.

Either a thing is against the rules or it isn't. If the community standards refuses to report something they SEE - simply because someone ELSE didn't report it - then no one should be getting in trouble for violating the same rule.

Complaint-driven enforcement is weakwilled, passive-aggressive, and creates disputes rather than solving them.

Again - either something is against the rules, or it isn't. Enforcement should be based on what is known, not just what is complained about.

[eyc234]

The community standards and ARC people are also members of that group of humanoids known as "anyone." There is no reason why THEY can't report violations as well. In fact - if they send someone out to handle a complaint against 123 Smith Drive reported in by Amos Jones, there's no reason why they can't notice that 125 Smith Drive next door has a shed in the back yard, and report that as a violation.

The reason they don't is arbitrary. They don't, because they don't. There's no reason why they can't. And if they choose not to report violations they SEE with their own eyes, then they should not have the authority to fine people who violate rules that are reported by anyone else. They should set the example.

Either a thing is against the rules or it isn't. If the community standards refuses to report something they SEE - simply because someone ELSE didn't report it - then no one should be getting in trouble for violating the same rule.

Complaint-driven enforcement is weakwilled, passive-aggressive, and creates disputes rather than solving them.

Again - either something is against the rules, or it isn't. Enforcement should be based on what is known, not just what is complained about.

:shocked::shocked: So you are saying some arbitrary ARC or community standards person aka troll (that no one has ever seen) should be making complaint!!!. How is this different than someone in the community with real need to keep property and property values up making a complaint? The entire matter comes down to meeting the deed compliance that you agreed to follow. If you buy pre owned home it is up to you to make sure the seller guarantees the property meets all legal requirements.

[eyc234]

They could of made not so trolling? How? By putting village ID on the complaint. This clears up several concerns. You have to be villages resident, you have live in that district to file complaint. No ID number, trashed, don’t live in that district, trashed. No one but district authorities would know who turned in the complaint and villager has to live in that district due to all district don’t have the exact same rules.

:ohdear: So following this thought process if I see someone breaking in your house but I do not live in your village I just ignore it? Of course those bare electrical cables hung by zip ties out to the plug nailed to the tree in the front yard I will ignore as well!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

:ohdear: So following this thought process if I see someone breaking in your house but I do not live in your village I just ignore it? Of course those bare electrical cables hung by zip ties out to the plug nailed to the tree in the front yard I will ignore as well!

Rules are not laws, laws are not rules. Might be helpful to distinguish between the two before making complaints to anyone about the violation of either one.

[EdFNJ]

Looking at this photo: the ladies look quite young, from their neckline and toned calves, to have nothing else to do. They seem to have a golf club bag with clubs in the back of the golf cart. And if they were caught by night vision, then they were driving by at night. Might be hard to see any infarctions in the dark. To me it looks like they were returning from a game of late in the day golf. But I could be wrong. Ummmm, I pray you were joking :pray: because quite obviously I was! :1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

:shocked::shocked: So you are saying some arbitrary ARC or community standards person aka troll (that no one has ever seen) should be making complaint!!!. How is this different than someone in the community with real need to keep property and property values up making a complaint? The entire matter comes down to meeting the deed compliance that you agreed to follow. If you buy pre owned home it is up to you to make sure the seller guarantees the property meets all legal requirements.

No, I"m not saying that. If I was saying that, I would've said that. I didn't say that. I posted what I posted. Stop interpreting it and take it for face value.

And here's the point - which is the last sentence, which is usually where people who post things put their point:

Again - either something is against the rules, or it isn't. Enforcement should be based on what is known, not just what is complained about.

But just in case you are trying to interpret it and give it meaning that it doesn't have again, here it is again, in different words:

Complaint-driven enforcement is bad. Either a thing is against the rules, or it isn't. It shouldn't be up to ONLY someone complaining. Because when you leave it up to ONLY a person complaining, then you revert to the old 10-year-old-kid mentality of: it's not against the rules unless you get caught. That is exactly what complaint-driven enforcement means. It means it's only against the rules if you get caught.

That is super low standards, for supposedly civilized people.

[EdFNJ]

The idea of people traveling our area looking for violations so they can turn in their neighbors makes my skin crawl. That had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my comment that you quoted. If you REALLY "believe the 2 ladies in a golf-cart" legend I have a big "Q" sign to sell you. :D Everyone "knows someone" who saw them but like the loch ness monster and bigfoot there isn't any verifiable proof. ;) Besides, they would probably be 99 yrs old by now unless they are a secret organization part of the "deep Villages."

[Velvet]

Ummmm, I pray you were joking :pray: because quite obviously I was! :1rotfl:

Yep.

[merrymini]

I can see it now. “Hey Joe, that pinwheel you just put in the front yard is not allowed. Can you take it down?” Joe says, what the h*** do you care what I put in my front yard? Mind your own business. ****you.” Oh yea, this is going to be interesting.

[dillywho]

My biggest problem is not with the reporting system, but with those doing the reporting. Why do they wait until a major project is finished to report the violation? Are all the neighbors not at home when the work is being done? The big painted mural on a garage door or the driveway extension come to mind. These obviously were not two-hour projects. This is when the report should be made, not after completion. On major projects, require that the ARC approval paperwork be posted on/in a window where it can be seen from the street. Then if someone must make a complaint, complain that there is no approval paperwork posted and a project seems to be in the works.

As for resales, The Villages should have to sign off that the property is in compliance and could be used as a reference if a report came in about non-compliance. This should be for all resales by any realtor or FSBO. What is a violation in one area, is not a violation in another. Complaints should be held to submission of those in the reporter's area for this reason, if not for any other.

I can also assure you that everyone is not in total compliance with every single covenant, too. Please reread yours in its entirety, not just the parts about signage, landscaping, improvements...every single one of them. You might be in for a surprise and find you, too, are "in violation" of at least one.:icon_wink:

[DeanFL]

.
.
.
...from the 'online news source'>>>>

Some Villagers believe ditching anonymous complaints could be death of trolls
August 23, 2020

Meta Minton
Residents are reacting to a decision to ditch anonymous complaints when it comes to deed compliance in The Villages.

Last week, Community Development District 5 voted to end the anonymous complaint system that has been a crucial part of deed compliance in The Villages. The CDD 5 board voted 3-2 to stop relying on anonymous complaints, which make up 96 percent of the complaints made to Community Standards.

Lois Philbrick, of the Village of Briar Meadow, a resident of Community Development District 4, approves of the move made by the CDD 5 board.

She said this type of action could help put the “trolls” into permanent retirement.

“Anonymous reporting allows people who do not even live in a neighborhood to send in complaints,” Philbrick said.

She said that rather than having the trolls act as a vigilante force, it’s time for neighbors to start talking to neighbors again. She pointed to cases that have made deed compliance headlines in Florida’s Friendliest Hometown.

“Making the lady who put in astro turf remove it when the neighbors haven’t objected and even complimented her on the look it provides is just vindictive. Extending a driveway so a disabled vet can get in and out of his van easier just makes sense and it didn’t detract from anything,” Philbrick said.

Lee Gilpin, of the Village of Liberty Park, who attended last week’s CDD 5 meeting, said the move by the board makes sense.

“As I understand it, the common sense endeavor is intended to eliminate violations being frivolously and anonymously ‘reported’ to the Department of Community Standards,” Gilpin said.

“The party anonymously submitting the report may be exercising a grudge-related issue, or the report may just be a challenge to locate technical but harmless violations of ‘the rules.’ With this action in District 5 I see no likelihood of MORE violations occurring. There are plenty of proud homeowners who would gladly report seriously harmful or dangerous violations,” Gilpin said.

Earlier this year, the Village of Sunset Pointe was rocked when homeowner Thomas Rinker was the target of an anonymous complaint aimed at his landscaping that had been unknowingly placed 15 years earlier in a Sumter County right of way. Rinker’s whole neighborhood came out to support his landscaping, but the CDD 5 board was forced – by the rules – to find him in violation of deed compliance.

If CDD 5’s new rule that a complainant must provide a name is approved in October, the person reporting Rinker’s violation would have been required to provide a name.

Michael Jones, of the Village of St. Charles, fears that CDD 5’s decision could create chaos in neighborhoods.

“By not allowing anonymous reporting of deed restriction violations that would cause undue tension in neighborhoods or worse. This would pit neighbor against neighbor or non-reporting of these infractions,” Jones said.

He is encouraging CDD 5 supervisors to “rethink” the vote and “the repercussions that it could cause.”

The change is not taking effect immediately.

The rule change and actual language will have to be advertised to the public for 28 days. The board will take a final vote in October.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Do the deed restrictions require that the compliance committee impose fines, or do they merely say the compliance committee CAN impose fines of "up to" x...?

Because it it says they CAN impose fines, then the committee would also be free to dismiss a complaint, or reduce a fine and still impose it as a way of saying "yes, they violated something that we are not allowed to forgive, but we really don't care, so just give us $20 and call it a day."

They could even impose a $20 lien on the house, if the deed restrictions don't expressly forbid it. That way the homeowner can continue on as usual, and when he sells the house, he'll have to give $20 to the compliance committee. Or the $20 lien can convey to the next homeowner.

I just don't think this should be nearly as complicated as it seems to be. The astro-turf people should not be complained about, because astro-turf actually INCREASED the property value. But if it's against the rules, hey it's against the rules. Tell the homeowner "you can either remove the astro turf and replace with complaint landscaping OR we'll put a $20 lien on your house."

Same with the people with the mural on their garage door - which is actually gorgeous and a neighborhood landmark (telling your visiting aunt that you live 4 doors to the right of the mural is a great way to explain which house is yours). Just like I use "the red house" to describe directions to my house.

People visiting don't really understand the significance of "the red house" until they drive up toward it. And then they know immediately - oh yeah - "this is the house she said to do this next set of directions with."

[graciegirl]

No, I"m not saying that. If I was saying that, I would've said that. I didn't say that. I posted what I posted. Stop interpreting it and take it for face value.

And here's the point - which is the last sentence, which is usually where people who post things put their point:



But just in case you are trying to interpret it and give it meaning that it doesn't have again, here it is again, in different words:

Complaint-driven enforcement is bad.
Either a thing is against the rules, or it isn't. It shouldn't be up to ONLY someone complaining. Because when you leave it up to ONLY a person complaining, then you revert to the old 10-year-old-kid mentality of: it's not against the rules unless you get caught. That is exactly what complaint-driven enforcement means. It means it's only against the rules if you get caught.

That is super low standards, for supposedly civilized people.

NO. Complaint driven enforcement is NOT bad. It means that if you complain and it isn't against the rules, no action will be taken. AND no one will look at you with cold eyes if and when we ever have driveway parties again. In my opinion.

I hope that all people who have not done so, will take the class on how The Villages works offered monthly, as soon as there is no danger to catch Covid-19.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

NO. Complaint driven enforcement is NOT bad. It means that if you complain and it isn't against the rules, no action will be taken. AND no one will look at you with cold eyes if and when we ever have driveway parties again. In my opinion.

I hope that all people who have not done so, will take the class on how The Villages works offered monthly, as soon as there is no danger to catch Covid-19.

It also means that everyone who violates the rules, and are NOT complained about, get to continue violating the rules while the people who ARE complained about have to comply.

In other words, it's only against the rules if someone complains about it. For everyone else, it's not against the rules.

[Villageswimmer]

I can see it now. “Hey Joe, that pinwheel you just put in the front yard is not allowed. Can you take it down?” Joe says, what the h*** do you care what I put in my front yard? Mind your own business. ****you.” Oh yea, this is going to be interesting.


Yes. And a lot of these folks carry. Are District 5 supervisors willing to take on liability if someone gets hurt?

[Velvet]

Yes. One may want to upkeep the deed restrictions but not necessarily antagonize their neighbors.

Regarding the Astro turf, if one is allowed it would set a precedent. If she can have it why do I pay thousands a year to upkeep my grass when a cheap artificial stuff I could get could replace it? Although hers maybe of good quality what about people who can’t afford the good stuff.

[DeanFL]

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personally, I am ALL FOR the adherence of deed restrictions etc etc. Not for the anonymous reporting. It's easy to see violations, esp stacked walls, shrubs etc etc on easements riding around. If we had an 'issue' with someone simply make that call and Bam! Are these things (minor violations) hurting us or harming the beauty of TV? STRICT "Rules are Rules" could be a two-edged sword, becoming an "Eye for an Eye".
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[Stu from NYC]

I hope that all people who have not done so, will take the class on how The Villages works offered monthly, as soon as there is no danger to catch Covid-19.

We will definitely be taking it

[Altavia]

I'm surprised some class action attorneys have come in here to take advantage of the arbitrary and inconsist actions much less enforcement 10+ years after the infraction occured.

[Altavia]

I hope that all people who have not done so, will take the class on how The Villages works offered monthly, as soon as there is no danger to catch Covid-19.

The class is excellent. John Rohan spoke to the one I atteneded,. No reason these could not be online.

Very sorry my friend but the world has changed and unlikely there will be no danger to catch COVID or what ever new infectious disease that arrives behind it. So we need to adapt to this new world and the risk we are willing to accept,

[Topspinmo]

That had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my comment that you quoted. If you REALLY "believe the 2 ladies in a golf-cart" legend I have a big "Q" sign to sell you. :D Everyone "knows someone" who saw them but like the loch ness monster and bigfoot there isn't any verifiable proof. ;) Besides, they would probably be 99 yrs old by now unless they are a secret organization part of the "deep Villages."

I don’t think it two? I think is several in every district> :coolsmiley:

[Challenger]

Eliminating anonymous complaint system is a very bad idea. The "complainer" is not like a witness in a criminal case, but rather a person who says to the controlling authority that there may be a violation , please investigate. The CDD then investigates and makes the determination . Our law system uses "anonymus tipsters all the time" and it is a legit process. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it,

[Topspinmo]

Eliminating anonymous complaint system is a very bad idea. The "complainer" is not like a witness in a criminal case, but rather a person who says to the controlling authority that there may be a violation , please investigate. The CDD then investigates and makes the determination . Our law system uses "anonymus tipsters all the time" and it is a legit process. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it,

It can still be anonymous with village ID number. That way you have to be villager and live in that district to file complaint. Takes the trolls out of it and make legit cause it’s villager and they live in that district. If they live in another district Or not card paying resident it’s none of there business IMO. Districts don’t have the same exact rules.

[Challenger]

Without the anonymous tip system the process will flop. Some would find this to be ok. Not I. If there is no anonymous system then the CDD should have a process of at least quarterly neighborhood rounds to identify violations. I have been through this issue in two out neighborhoods and failure to enforce leads to a messy situation. Be careful what you ask for , you may get your wish.

[CFrance]

Without the anonymous tip system the process will flop. Some would find this to be ok. Not I. If there is no anonymous system then the CDD should have a process of at least quarterly neighborhood rounds to identify violations. I have been through this issue in two out neighborhoods and failure to enforce leads to a messy situation. Be careful what you ask for , you may get your wish.
The Villages makes the rules but they don't want to spend the money to enforce them. Didn't Community Watch use to report non-compliance? Why not go back to that, or institute it. They drive everywhere. How hard can it be to write down an address and compliance issue while still in their trucks?

[Jayhawk]

My biggest problem is not with the reporting system, but with those doing the reporting. Why do they wait until a major project is finished to report the violation? Are all the neighbors not at home when the work is being done? The big painted mural on a garage door or the driveway extension come to mind. These obviously were not two-hour projects. This is when the report should be made, not after completion. On major projects, require that the ARC approval paperwork be posted on/in a window where it can be seen from the street. Then if someone must make a complaint, complain that there is no approval paperwork posted and a project seems to be in the works.



So your biggest concern is not the homeowner who is VIOLATING the deed restrictions but rather the person making the report didn't do it timely? That makes no sense.

[CFrance]

It can still be anonymous with village ID number. That way you have to be villager and live in that district to file complaint. Takes the trolls out of it and make legit cause it’s villager and they live in that district. If they live in another district Or not card paying resident it’s none of there business IMO. Districts don’t have the same exact rules.
Another deterrent would to be to limit complaints to one at a time.

[Topspinmo]

I'm surprised some class action attorneys have come in here to take advantage of the arbitrary and inconsist actions much less enforcement 10+ years after the infraction occured.

No money in it.

[EdFNJ]

If you REALLY "believe the 2 ladies in a golf-cart" legend I have a big "Q" sign to sell you. :D Everyone "knows someone" who saw them but like the loch ness monster and bigfoot there isn't any verifiable proof. ;) Besides, they would probably be 99 yrs old by now unless they are a secret organization part of the "deep Villages."

I don’t think it two? I think is several in every district> :coolsmiley:

Yea, it's the secret Deep Villages Cabal. The ladies meet (by twos) every Sixth Friday of the month. :1rotfl: I don't doubt people (men and women with and without clipboards) are reporting infractions it's just The Villages Legend I find so funny.

[dillywho]

So your biggest concern is not the homeowner who is VIOLATING the deed restrictions but rather the person making the report didn't do it timely? That makes no sense.

Yes, it is when it involves hundreds or thousands of dollars. I'm not talking about a cross or a sign or whatever. I am talking the big dollars. If it is a violation upon completion, then why would it not be a violation during the process? Everyone on here keeps complaining about TV becoming so unfriendly these days; waiting until completion seems pretty unfriendly to me. So does a complaint 15 years after the fact. Sales agents, Community Watch, etc., passed by that particular corner for years, but it took 15 for it to become a violation and a problem? BTW, after rereading my covenants, there is a rule in there that says we (my district covenants) are to notify TV if we will be away from our home 7 or more days. Not doing so is a violation. Should that be reported?

[tvbound]

I'm still trying to understand why it even matters knowing who, or where they live, of those reporting potential deed violations? Doesn't a Village's official have to look to determine if it's a violation, before any action can be taken? I get the feeling by reading some posts, that there are a number of people who would like to act on the old adage of "snitches get stitches." Or, at the very least, harass those who report potential violations. The answer, to me, is to read the deed restrictions in your area and just make sure you follow them.

[theruizs]

I'm still trying to understand why it even matters knowing who, or where they live, of those reporting potential deed violations? Doesn't a Village's official have to look to determine if it's a violation, before any action can be taken? I get the feeling by reading some posts, that there are a number of people who would like to act on the old adage of "snitches get stitches." Or, at the very least, harass those who report potential violations. The answer, to me, is to read the deed restrictions in your area and just make sure you follow them.

Not anonymous does not have to mean the homeowner being complained about gets to know who complained. Once Deed Compliance determines there is a violation it is between them and the homeowner, period. However, Deed Compliance should know who is complaining in order to keep the system from being abused. There may be some rare cases that may involve legal action or other circumstances where the homeowner finds out, but as general rule they have no need to know.

[Jayhawk]

BTW, after rereading my covenants, there is a rule in there that says we (my district covenants) are to notify TV if we will be away from our home 7 or more days. Not doing so is a violation. Should that be reported?

I won't deny this since I do not know, but I did review 4 different districts covenants to see the language and cannot find this in ANY deed restrictions. Could you be so kind as to point out where to find this?

[Challenger]

The Villages makes the rules but they don't want to spend the money to enforce them. Didn't Community Watch use to report non-compliance? Why not go back to that, or institute it. They drive everywhere. How hard can it be to write down an address and compliance issue while still in their trucks?

Sounds reasonable to me :bigbow:

[Jayhawk]

Not anonymous does not have to mean the homeowner being complained about gets to know who complained. Once Deed Compliance determines there is a violation it is between them and the homeowner, period. However, Deed Compliance should know who is complaining in order to keep the system from being abused. There may be some rare cases that may involve legal action or other circumstances where the homeowner finds out, but as general rule they have no need to know.

If the process was being abused, wouldn't that have casued a change long ago? I'm still waiting for someone to explain how THEY ARE AFFECTED BY ANONYMOUS reporting if they themseves are NOT IN VIOLATION. Why do you care?

[dillywho]

I won't deny this since I do not know, but I did review 4 different districts covenants to see the language and cannot find this in ANY deed restrictions. Could you be so kind as to point out where to find this?

Absolutely. I sent my information to you in a PM.