Senior Crime

[Northerner52]

A friend was taken advantage of at a Leesburg auto dealer. Besides Seniors Vs Crime. Any suggestions on recourse?

[JGVillages]

Depends on the details of what occurred.

[retiredguy123]

I think all auto dealers deceive customers and try to take advantage of them. But, did they do anything illegal?

[Stu from NYC]

First question is was a crime committed?

[villagetinker]

They could file a complaint with the BBB, as noted above you gave no details, so if what ever was done is illegal (like turned back odometer for example), then the local police could be contacted.

[Northerner52]

The 'CRIME was stealing the trade for $2500 when it is worth $10,000 on KBB trade in value. The CRIME is leasing a $32,000 new car with a Capitalized cost of $47,000, A CRIME lifting $5,000 from the senior woman's pocket. A CRIME to add $5,000 in add on services.
And all legal, as no gun was used

[Tennisbum]

Better Business Bureau, at least it will in the eyes of the public. One of the ladies that play on my mixed team had an issue with an olil change company that tried to soak her for 2k for safety parts on her car. They threatened to call her insurance company and report her! She was a lawyer........she got a free oil change!

[retiredguy123]

The 'CRIME was stealing the trade for $2500 when it is worth $10,000 on KBB trade in value. The CRIME is leasing a $32,000 new car with a Capitalized cost of $47,000, A CRIME lifting $5,000 from the senior woman's pocket. A CRIME to add $5,000 in add on services.
And all legal, as no gun was used
I'm sorry that happened to her. But, I'm not at all surprised. That is what car dealers do to people who are uninformed.

[bimmertl]

This is a classic example of the crap some of these dealers do on a regular basis.

In March I had a trade in worth around 12K on Kelly BB price. In addition, I had a firm price from Carvana for $12,900. When the salesman put the initial together he valued my trade in at 5K. I told him it was absurd and had him go to Kelly on his desk top.

10 minutes later a "sales manager" showed up and now the trade in jumped to 12K. So it's let's see how dumb this guy is and if we can screw him on his trade in we will.

I left.

For what it's worth, give Carvana a shot on a trade in. No cost and you'll have some idea of a trade in value in addition to KBB or whatever else.


I'll skip the details on the bogus add ons.

[villagetinker]

Thanks for the background, decades ago, my dad had a similar problem, at the time he was able to get to the vice president of the Pontiac division and had a discussion, the problem was cleared up the next day, I think the salesman was fired also.

[retiredguy123]

I agree that it won't hurt to post a detailed complaint on the BBB website. But, I don't think she would have been treated any better at any other car dealer. That is how they do business.

[JoMar]

And the dealers name is?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The 'CRIME was stealing the trade for $2500 when it is worth $10,000 on KBB trade in value. The CRIME is leasing a $32,000 new car with a Capitalized cost of $47,000, A CRIME lifting $5,000 from the senior woman's pocket. A CRIME to add $5,000 in add on services.
And all legal, as no gun was used

1. This was a friend of yours, so of course you'll be biased. And dealerships are notorious for trying to get the best bang for your buck.
2. You don't know the actual condition of the vehicle, unless you're a mechanic and did a full inspection of it. The Kelley Blue Book provides guidelines, trade-in values are not black and white, they are shades of grey.
3. Didn't your friend do any research on her own? If not, why not? It's her car, it's her responsibility to know - at least within reason - the value of her own vehicle. No crime committed on trade-in value. They offered her a number, she accepted it. She could have walked away from the deal. She chose not to.
4. Leasing the car: when you make payments on a car, you accept that you'll be paying more than the car is actually worth. When you're leasing, you're paying interest. It also includes maintenance costs, which are covered in the lease. You don't buy a $32,000 car and don't expect to do oil changes, tuneups, 6000-mile checkups, exhaust, brakes, and AC checks and replacements, new tires after "x" number of miles, etc. etc. etc. Those things cost money and when you're leasing, they build those costs into your monthly payment. And when the lease is up and you hand the car over, they are not receiving a $32,000 car anymore. It's typically 2-4 years old already and likely worth perhaps half of that, if it's in good shape.

All legal, that's how leases work. No crime committed.

[EdFNJ]

It is a sad and aggravating fact these things often happen to women at car dealers (I believe 60 Minutes, years ago did a story on that) and being a senior woman puts a bigger target on your back. While I wouldn't call her gullible or stupid evidently she was just UNINFORMED. Barring any further details than provided she got what she legally contracted for and the salesman must have thrown a party when she left. She can write to the newspapers, contact "seniors against crime" who couldn't do anything anyway despite evidently there was no crime except for her being uninformed or contact the BBB for "satisfaction" but she won't get much more than that. As posters here ALWAYS write, we need to take responsibility for our own deeds. They probably got her by adding $9000 worth of worthless dealer installed extra to the sticker price. Sorry "your friend" got (legally) bamboozled.

[Stu from NYC]

It is a sad and aggravating fact these things often happen to women at car dealers (I believe 60 Minutes, years ago did a story on that) and being a senior woman puts a bigger target on your back. While I wouldn't call her gullible or stupid evidently she was just UNINFORMED. Barring any further details than provided she got what she legally contracted for and the salesman must have thrown a party when she left. She can write to the newspapers, contact "seniors against crime" who couldn't do anything anyway despite evidently there was no crime except for her being uninformed or contact the BBB for "satisfaction" but she won't get much more than that. As posters here ALWAYS write, we need to take responsibility for our own deeds. They probably got her by adding $9000 worth of worthless dealer installed extra to the sticker price. Sorry "your friend" got (legally) bamboozled.

She should have asked someone who knew about car buying to come with her.

Also when you shop for a big ticket item should have some idea of what it might cost.

Do not think a crime was committed though.

[retiredguy123]

For what it is worth, I think it is more common for young people in their twenties to be ripped off by a car dealer than a senior citizen. And, young people are less likely to be able to afford to get ripped off. But, I blame the car manufacturers. They should require their dealers to advertise a fixed price for the cars without all of the games and ripoffs. I actually think it would increase sales and profits.

[Number 10 GI]

For what it is worth, I think it is more common for young people in their twenties to be ripped off by a car dealer than a senior citizen. And, young people are less likely to be able to afford to get ripped off. But, I blame the car manufacturers. They should require their dealers to advertise a fixed price for the cars without all of the games and ripoffs. I actually think it would increase sales and profits.

If it actually worked all the dealers would be doing it. I think it was Saturn who had fixed price, no haggle buying and they aren't around any longer.

[retiredguy123]

If it actually worked all the dealers would be doing it. I think it was Saturn who had fixed price, no haggle buying and they aren't around any longer.
It would need to come from the top down. Mandated by all manufacturers. It works for other products, why not cars? I don't think television and appliance manufacturers would be happy if Best Buy and Lowes started hiring sleasy sales people to rip off customers and ask them to pay a "dealer fee". Just my opinion.

[Number 10 GI]

I feel sorry for the lady but it isn't an unknown fact that car salesmen will take advantage of an uninformed buyer. Actually there are quite a few jokes about the integrity of car salesmen and lawyers. She should have sought out someone knowledgeable of the tactics used by dealerships.

[John41]

The 'CRIME was stealing the trade for $2500 when it is worth $10,000 on KBB trade in value. The CRIME is leasing a $32,000 new car with a Capitalized cost of $47,000, A CRIME lifting $5,000 from the senior woman's pocket. A CRIME to add $5,000 in add on services.
And all legal, as no gun was used

It’s elder abuse and against the law. There are elder abuse resources you can look up on the internet also an elder abuse attorney. I think contracts are only valid when there is a meeting of the minds.

[Girlcopper]

The 'CRIME was stealing the trade for $2500 when it is worth $10,000 on KBB trade in value. The CRIME is leasing a $32,000 new car with a Capitalized cost of $47,000, A CRIME lifting $5,000 from the senior woman's pocket. A CRIME to add $5,000 in add on services.
And all legal, as no gun was used
Ok. No crime. She didnt have to take the offer or make the sale. She did no research before going and didnt get the best price. The old saying, “buyer beware”

[Girlcopper]

1. This was a friend of yours, so of course you'll be biased. And dealerships are notorious for trying to get the best bang for your buck.
2. You don't know the actual condition of the vehicle, unless you're a mechanic and did a full inspection of it. The Kelley Blue Book provides guidelines, trade-in values are not black and white, they are shades of grey.
3. Didn't your friend do any research on her own? If not, why not? It's her car, it's her responsibility to know - at least within reason - the value of her own vehicle. No crime committed on trade-in value. They offered her a number, she accepted it. She could have walked away from the deal. She chose not to.
4. Leasing the car: when you make payments on a car, you accept that you'll be paying more than the car is actually worth. When you're leasing, you're paying interest. It also includes maintenance costs, which are covered in the lease. You don't buy a $32,000 car and don't expect to do oil changes, tuneups, 6000-mile checkups, exhaust, brakes, and AC checks and replacements, new tires after "x" number of miles, etc. etc. etc. Those things cost money and when you're leasing, they build those costs into your monthly payment. And when the lease is up and you hand the car over, they are not receiving a $32,000 car anymore. It's typically 2-4 years old already and likely worth perhaps half of that, if it's in good shape.

All legal, that's how leases work. No crime committed.
Very well said. If youre not doing some research furst, then dont complain afterwards

[LoisR]

Buyer beware. Trust everyone, but trust no one.

[raindrop49]

A friend was taken advantage of at a Leesburg auto dealer. Besides Seniors Vs Crime. Any suggestions on recourse?

A few years back we had an older van that the dealer offered us $500.00 for it. I told him, "You must be kidding." We walked out, went to another dealer where we were offered $5000.00 for it. I did my home work before going to the dealer so I knew what our van was worth.

[Scorpyo]

She should have asked someone who knew about car buying to come with her..
Exactly. Even if someone couldn’t come with her she should have asked for advice. A lady friend of mine is looking at a new KIA. I’ve turned her on to a TOTV thread on the subject and a couple of UTube videos. The dealer both hates and respects her.

[Mikee1]

For what it is worth, I think it is more common for young people in their twenties to be ripped off by a car dealer than a senior citizen. And, young people are less likely to be able to afford to get ripped off. But, I blame the car manufacturers. They should require their dealers to advertise a fixed price for the cars without all of the games and ripoffs. I actually think it would increase sales and profits.

That is strictly illegal. That is called price fixing and restraint of trade. It is also illegal for a manufacturer to sell its own vehicle at retail. They have tried in the past thru arm length companies and it has been a huge failure. Ask Ford, GM.
While you may have a desirable point, it cannot be done.

[donassaid]

Buying a car, whether new, used or leasing, is always a process of negotiation. MSRP stands for Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. A person wishing to trade or buy a new car should always have a good idea of what their own car is worth. I just bought a new car from a Leesburg dealership on a trade and the dealer came down $8,000 from the original offer. That's called negotiation.

[daca55]

Try writing a letter to the car manufacturer customer service. In the letter state what happen why you think it was not fair. Tell them what would make the deal better. It can’t hurt and she might get something from it. I have done it in the past and had good results. They generally don’t like to see complaints in writing.

[greenflash245]

I am sure your friend was the first person to be scammed by an auto dealer. buyer beware!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Scorpyo]

Hey I've got a great idea. Not as good as the one I had last February when I bought a 20-year supply of TP and paper towels from Costco. Now I just have to hope I outlive the supply. Anyway, on to my new brilliant idea - one I'm sure has already be posted a dozen times. Where can Villages seniors get good advice? Right here on TOTV. But how many know that? Probably not that many. TOTV should put together a flyer, piece of paper, document or whatever say once a year. It should be labeled something like Things the Savvy Senior Villager Should Know. In it it should have references to Threads or Posts. For instance: Thinking of Buying a Car? First read these threads or posts. Then they list some threads and more importantly how to find and access them. How about, Considering Cataract Surgery, Need Roofing Repair, A/C Not Working, Toilet Problems, and on and on. Besides giving, at times, good advice to our fellow senior community this flyer (or whatever) could probably increase readership in TOTV, something the advertisers would appreciate. Also, companies that perform services for our fellow residents will figure out that their names might wind up in threads for either good or bad services. This could also be included in the package when a person becomes a new resident. Imagine if this particular lady had read some of the Posts on car buying you'd be reading a post about how I took advantage of a sleazy car salesman. Knowledge is a weapon for the buyer, lack of knowledge is a weapon for the salesman.

[Beyond The Wall]

My mother in law had the same kind of experience at Jenkins Hyundai. Never again. She was treated very fairly at Phillips Buick.
Only way to stop this practice is get up and walk away .

[theruizs]

If it actually worked all the dealers would be doing it. I think it was Saturn who had fixed price, no haggle buying and they aren't around any longer.

If all dealers had to do it, it would work. They would have to be satisfied with a fair profit like any other honest business instead of making an inflated profit by lying, pressuring, and scamming their customers. What they do may be legal but that does not make it honest or moral.

[moe1212]

when you lease a car you are paying for the time frame in which you have it. It is the value of the vehicle less the residual value (the vehicles worth) when handed back divided by the number of months leased (taxes can be part of the equation as well. You do not pay for the list price of the car. Also most leases do not included any of the maintenance you mentioned above. Car dealers / salesman can be opportunistic to be kind. Typically there are three things involved in a deal like this. 1) price of new auto 2) trade in value 3) monthly payment (interest rate). All three of these should be considered when leasing or buying. If you talk to a salesmen they will tell you surprisingly enough that each individual will worry about just one of these three variables. In this case your friend may have told the salesperson what they are willing to spend each month and they built the deal to match it. subsequently not getting a fair shake. Just a thought.

[retiredguy123]

That is strictly illegal. That is called price fixing and restraint of trade. It is also illegal for a manufacturer to sell its own vehicle at retail. They have tried in the past thru arm length companies and it has been a huge failure. Ask Ford, GM.
While you may have a desirable point, it cannot be done.
I wasn't suggesting illegal price fixing. But, the manufacturers could require their dealers to stop engaging in deception and dishonesty when they sell a car. The behavior that car dealers engage in doesn't happen at other retail stores. I think the process will improve eventually because customers will demand it. But, car manufacturers could certainly help. The first deception that all dealers use is to show the customer an "invoice" that is supposed to represent what the dealer actually paid for the car. It doesn't. After that, the deception gets worse.

[donfey]

To me, this is the best answer. The car dealer buys and sells cars, and does so EVERY day. Anyone who goes there is at a disadvantage in the first place. To do so without some sort of assistance, like a knowledgable friend, not prudent.

[Tsmart]

And leases are taxed monthly.

[meridian5850]

For what it is worth, I think it is more common for young people in their twenties to be ripped off by a car dealer than a senior citizen. And, young people are less likely to be able to afford to get ripped off. But, I blame the car manufacturers. They should require their dealers to advertise a fixed price for the cars without all of the games and ripoffs. I actually think it would increase sales and profits.

Remember the Saturn division of GM? The business model was no haggle, fixed prices.

Also, regarding your most recent post; where are all the places you shop and demand to see the invoice of what the retailer paid for an item?

[kappy]

Jenkins Hyundai in Ocala gave me the best price to lease a Sonata. I checked with dealers in Leesburg, Claremont, and Orlando. I was able to lease my Sonata for the same terms as I had leased two other Sonatas in NJ even though almost all Florida dealers have dealer fees ranging from $699 to 1,299, which they do not tell you about until after you have finished negotiating. In ads, these dealer fees are shown in the small print on the bottom of the ads. If you research “Florida auto dealer fees”, you will see that these fees are nothing other than pure profit for the dealers.

[Scorpyo]

Let me ‘splain dealerships to you (car, m/c, boat, etc). Next time you pass by a dealership take a look at it and try to imagine how much it must cost to run that place. It’s huge so the lease or whatever must be huge. How do they pay for that? They have to make a bunch on each car right? No, wrong. The gross profit on the car is usually the least of their concerns. The more, however, the merrier. There are 5 money making machines in a dealership – Sales (new and used), F&I, Parts and Service. First you’re met by the barracuda, the salesman (new or used). He usually gets paid a commission on the gross profit from the sale. So, the more the gross profit the more the commission. A savvy buyer will minimize the gross profit. So how do they pay the bill for that huge dealership? Well, the next step in the process is the Great White Shark, the F&I manager. In most cases he’ll make some good money off the buyer, however, from me maybe a few bucks on the Extended Service Agreement (AKA Extended Warranty). Again, how do they pay the bills? The other 2 departments are Parts and Service. The parts department will generally make at least 40% on all parts sold to customers and to customers through the service department. There is a thing called the absorption ratio. That is the combined net profit of the parts and service departments. A good dealership with have an absorption ratio of 100% or more. What that means is the profit from parts and service are covering 100% or more of the expenses for the entire dealership. So, they didn’t make anything on me in sales and F&I but they’ll make some money from me on parts and service. We know parts makes 40% gross profit but how does service make money. How well a service department does is determined by their productivity and efficiency. Productivity means how much work management is able to bring in. For instance, if they have one technician and he is there for 8 hours and they bring in 4 hours of work then they are 50% productive (should be over 90%); 8 hours – 100% productive, 100 hours – 100% productive - they can’t do more than 8 hours so the maximum is 100%. Next is efficiency. That is the technician’s ability. He may have only worked 8 hours but he may have billed out 16 hours of work. So, he’d be 200% efficient. If he had 8 hours of work and it took him 16 hours to do it, he’d be 50% efficient (get rid of him). Good technicians are usually over 150% efficient. So, the profits in a really well run dealership are not made on how much they got from you on the sale of the vehicle but instead on the ability of the parts and service departments to cover the expenses of the dealership. So don’t worry about trying to bleed them dry on the sale.

[Number 10 GI]

If all dealers had to do it, it would work. They would have to be satisfied with a fair profit like any other honest business instead of making an inflated profit by lying, pressuring, and scamming their customers. What they do may be legal but that does not make it honest or moral.

And who decides what is a "fair profit"? Do you not notice the difference in prices between Walmart, Public, Winn Dixie, etc. on food products? Where are the set prices here? Using your idea a gallon of milk should be the same price at all stores but that is price fixing and quite illegal. All the extras, the lady mentioned in the OP bought, would be available even at fixed prices. How would fixed prices affect the trade in value on a car allowed by the dealership? Sometimes lessons learned can be harsh.

[Sherrilee]

Did she sign a contract??

[richs631]

Name the dealer.

[jarodrig]

I find it interesting that the OP took the time to start this thread about the treatment of his friend , yet he refuses to post the name of the dealer so that the readers are warned......:rolleyes:

[Denvercane]

Until you are willing to post the dealership and the sales man's name, this is just a story. If all was/is true, there is no liability in posting facts. Give the names and the story will have profound effect

[Jacob85]

I work for seniorsV Crime when we are open. I do know some of them are working by phone at home. So maybe if you call the sheriff department in lake Sumter they can give you a number to call. It sounds like a civil Florida case but they could still try to help by phone. Good luck

[New Englander]

I went to Jenkins KIA in Ocala. They tried to rip me off really badly. I had a very hard time getting the keys back from them for the car I wanted to trade in. I didn't buy from them I walked out. Next day the dealership manager called me and wanted me to come back so he could give me his deal. I hung up the phone.

[Stu from NYC]

To me, this is the best answer. The car dealer buys and sells cars, and does so EVERY day. Anyone who goes there is at a disadvantage in the first place. To do so without some sort of assistance, like a knowledgable friend, not prudent.

So very true

[airstreamingypsy]

They offered her a low offer for her trade in, yes, it's sleezy, but she had two choices... take the offer or walk out the door. She made the wrong choice. She should have known the value of her trade in, before she went to the dealer. It's unfortunate but I don't see how any laws were broken.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I’ve had success on my last 3 cars using true car . Com I don’t know if there still be n business but it worked for me

[talleyjm]

A friend was taken advantage of at a Leesburg auto dealer. Besides Seniors Vs Crime. Any suggestions on recourse?

The real crime was going into an auto dealership
so woefully unprepared about the auto buying
process. Sad.

[ydnar9]

I recently tooky my 2 year old car in for an oil change and tire rotation. They came up with a list that "needed" to be done, such as throttle body being cleaned, all tires be balanced with wheel alignment and maybe another thing, the total about $500. I said no, and she was "shocked", and said "you don't want those things done?" 6 months ago I had the same thing done and they said the car needed a fuel injector service done, brakes bled and something else, I said no not to do it, would have been about $500 for that if I remember right. The car only has about 40,000 miles on at this last service. They didn't even mention what they said the previous service that it needed done yet as I didn't have it done back then but came up with these new things. The car after this last service has a little vibration when approaching 75mph which didn't have before. So I loosened the lug nuts on each wheel, one wheel at a time and correctly tightened the lug nuts by using cross pattern tightening on each wheel, the vibration went away. Evidently the technician tightened one lug nut tight at a time instead of slowly tightening each lug nut using cross pattern tightening sequence. The car goes straight down the road and does not need alignment.

[shut the front door]

That is strictly illegal. That is called price fixing and restraint of trade. It is also illegal for a manufacturer to sell its own vehicle at retail. They have tried in the past thru arm length companies and it has been a huge failure. Ask Ford, GM.
While you may have a desirable point, it cannot be done.

That is not true. I have bought 2 vehicles from a Ford dealership that has "no haggle" prices.

[ydnar9]

When we bought our new car 2 years ago what irritated me was that every dealer we went to had the normal sticker price on each car, then the little added sticker that they put on over and above the sticker price from the factory. The things added to that sticker were things such as pinstripe, floor mats, nitrogen in the tires, special wax, special seat treatment to the seats, etc. All together totalling maybe a few hundred dollars in reality. But they added 4000 to 5000 dollars to the sticker price of the car. I told them the sticker price was for example say $26,000, and each sales rep would say basically "no sir, the price is $29,800". I would say no, the price is $26,000 and then I would walk out. Total ripoff. One manager followed me out and said would you pay $28,000? They should start at the real sticker price and go down from there, not go down from this inflated sticker price.

[4841142isw]

If it caused emotional duress, it is actionable and they will assist.
Good luck.
P. S. - Car dealers are so unscrupulous to everyone, generally speaking.

[Alicia]

If you used a credit card, you can file a dispute with your credit card company.

[Alicia]

We take all of our repairs to Sumter Tire in Wildwood. Sumter Tire is owned by old time county resident family, is scrupulously honest, does excellent work and prices it reasonably.

[retiredguy123]

Remember the Saturn division of GM? The business model was no haggle, fixed prices.

Also, regarding your most recent post; where are all the places you shop and demand to see the invoice of what the retailer paid for an item?
Not sure what you mean. I don't care what any retailer paid for an item. But, car dealers routinely want to show you a bogus invoice to make you think they are losing money when they sell you a car. I never ask for an invoice and if they give me a copy, I just hand it back to them. Some dealers even quote an invoice cost in their ads and claim they will sell you the car for less than what they paid. These invoices are a popular gimmick that don't represent the dealer's cost for the car.

The last car I bought, I made a take-it-or-leave-it offer based on the KBB.com fair value calculation, including trade-in. The sales manager came out of his office and told me that, if he sold me the car for that price, he would be losing $200. I politely told him that I didn't want him to lose money, so I would buy the car from another dealer. Within 5 minutes, he accepted my offer.

[Scorpyo]

Not sure what you mean. I don't care what any retailer paid for an item. But, car dealers routinely want to show you a bogus invoice to make you think they are losing money when they sell you a car. I never ask for an invoice and if they give me a copy, I just hand it back to them. Some dealers even quote an invoice cost in their ads and claim they will sell you the car for less than what they paid. These invoices are a popular gimmick that don't represent the dealer's cost for the car.

The last car I bought, I made a take-it-or-leave-it offer based on the KBB.com fair value calculation, including trade-in. The sales manager came out of his office and told me that, if he sold me the car for that price, he would be losing $200. I politely told him that I didn't want him to lose money, so I would buy the car from another dealer. Within 5 minutes, he accepted my offer.
Nicely done.

[retiredguy123]

If you used a credit card, you can file a dispute with your credit card company.
Most car dealers won't accept a credit card to buy a car. They may accept a credit card for a deposit, but they will usually require you to sign a separate agreement that will prohibit you from disputing the credit card with your bank, because it will define the provisions of the payment, such as non-refundable. If you try to dispute the charge, they will claim that the credit card charge was a payment to reserve, hold, or transport the car.

[retiredguy123]

When we bought our new car 2 years ago what irritated me was that every dealer we went to had the normal sticker price on each car, then the little added sticker that they put on over and above the sticker price from the factory. The things added to that sticker were things such as pinstripe, floor mats, nitrogen in the tires, special wax, special seat treatment to the seats, etc. All together totalling maybe a few hundred dollars in reality. But they added 4000 to 5000 dollars to the sticker price of the car. I told them the sticker price was for example say $26,000, and each sales rep would say basically "no sir, the price is $29,800". I would say no, the price is $26,000 and then I would walk out. Total ripoff. One manager followed me out and said would you pay $28,000? They should start at the real sticker price and go down from there, not go down from this inflated sticker price.
Unless the car is a high demand vehicle, you can almost always totally ignore the dealer added items.

[retiredguy123]

And who decides what is a "fair profit"? Do you not notice the difference in prices between Walmart, Public, Winn Dixie, etc. on food products? Where are the set prices here? Using your idea a gallon of milk should be the same price at all stores but that is price fixing and quite illegal. All the extras, the lady mentioned in the OP bought, would be available even at fixed prices. How would fixed prices affect the trade in value on a car allowed by the dealership? Sometimes lessons learned can be harsh.
The difference is that, when you go into a Walmart, a television will have a price tag of say $800 on it. Everyone who buys that TV will pay $800 plus 7 percent sales tax.

But when you go into a car dealership, a car will have a price tag of say $30,000 on it. Depending on the car, I can almost guarantee that I can buy that car for at about $3,000 less than an uniformed buyer will pay.

[Stu from NYC]

The difference is that, when you go into a Walmart, a television will have a price tag of say $800 on it. Everyone who buys that TV will pay $800 plus 7 percent sales tax.

But when you go into a car dealership, a car will have a price tag of say $30,000 on it. Depending on the car, I can almost guarantee that I can buy that car for at about $3,000 less than an uniformed buyer will pay.

When this is over will need to buy a second car. Can we hire you?

[Northerner52]

I went to the dealer I was referring to and we renegotiated the deal 2 days later.

[retiredguy123]

When this is over will need to buy a second car. Can we hire you?
Not something I do, but you probably don't need help anyway.

[Dana1963]

Nitrogen is a real ripoff 2000 cu ft tank is about $2.00. The air we breath is 78% Nitrogen and 20,95 Oxygen the remaining quantity 2% close to 1% Argon the last 1% is a combination of 6 gases including CO2. Over time Oxygen and other gases will leach out of tire similar to why balloon deflates over time with no apparent leak quicker when filled with Helium the molecule is so small.

[Dana1963]

Hyundai is great for advertising $25 gift card to test drive new car. Their goal is to get you in and talk a trade and tell you how much in demand your trade in is valued.
I have had better luck dealing with Car Dealers in Orlando than looking here I assume they think Villagers are easy.

[chrissy2231]

Report it to AARP. They're big on this stuff.

[chrissy2231]

403 Forbidden (https://www.car-buying-strategies.com/dealer-invoice)
The best way to negotiate. I pay $500 over invoice. They get hold backs & other stuff. I never pay destination fee.

[chrissy2231]

The best way to negotiate. I pay $500 over invoice. They get hold backs & other stuff. I never pay destination fee.
car-buying-strategies.com/dealer-invoice

[OhioBuckeye]

A friend was taken advantage of at a Leesburg auto dealer. Besides Seniors Vs Crime. Any suggestions on recourse?

How was he taken advantage of?There’s 2 sides of the story!

[bilcon]

BUYER BEWARE. If you don't know what you're doing, take someone with you who does. Years ago, my wife decided to lease a new car. She knew nothing about car leasing and she almost paid $600 a month for the lease. Thankfully, she held off on the lease on the new Infinity, and I got my "lease genius" friend to help me. By the time she leased it, it was $300 a month with 15K miles a year. Know yours limits, study prices, stick to your guns or walk away.

"I never made a mistake in my life. I thought I did once, but I was wrong."

[tvbound]

The best way to negotiate. I pay $500 over invoice. They get hold backs & other stuff. I never pay destination fee.
car-buying-strategies.com/dealer-invoiceI agree.

Buying a vehicle has always been one of the most stressful things the average person does in their life, but in the last 25 years or so with the internet, the field has been leveled. In this day and age, and not trying to sound like a jerk, if you go to buy a vehicle without having done at least a few hours of internet research, knowing what model you want and having researched the dealers invoice price, you are guaranteed to pay thousands more than you need to. Always negotiate up from dealers invoice, not down from MSRP. Having said that, keep in mind if a certain model is very popular, you will not have the leverage you will have on a middling level brand's model(s).

[mollypeanut]

I’m happy you were able to resolve the issue. Your friend is lucky to have you!

[bpascani]

A friend was taken advantage of at a Leesburg auto dealer. Besides Seniors Vs Crime. Any suggestions on recourse?
I would suggest, for car/truck purchase @Southeast Car Agency on NE 39th Ave in Gainesville. VERY honest, patient, and fair price. We had heard good things about them for years, and finally needed a car in 2018. They were as awesome as we were told. When we need our next car, we will go back up there, for sure. BUT, @Accu Tech Automotive on US301 in Oxford is taking such good car of my car, ans SO reasonable, it might be longer than we thought, before we have to get me another car!

[Stu from NYC]

Nitrogen is a real ripoff 2000 cu ft tank is about $2.00. The air we breath is 78% Nitrogen and 20,95 Oxygen the remaining quantity 2% close to 1% Argon the last 1% is a combination of 6 gases including CO2. Over time Oxygen and other gases will leach out of tire similar to why balloon deflates over time with no apparent leak quicker when filled with Helium the molecule is so small.

I kind of vaguely recall hearing that tires filled with nitrogen would yield better gas mileage.

[davem4616]

She should have asked someone who knew about car buying to come with her.

Also when you shop for a big ticket item should have some idea of what it might cost.

Do not think a crime was committed though.



I agree. Car sales people are constantly going to classes and being coached on how to close the deal...keep in mind, this is what they do for a living week in and week out...they know how to do it

the average person is NEVER on a level playing field when dealing with a car sales person... add into the mix that the person is elderly and may not have done any homework and that's a 'perfect storm'

when my father-in-law retired, he sold his Toyota dealership...he always negotiated the deal for anyone in the family when it came to buying an automobile...regardless of brand

[Number 10 GI]

I kind of vaguely recall hearing that tires filled with nitrogen would yield better gas mileage.

Nitrogen does not expand or contract with temperature change, the tire pressure remains constant. Expansion and contraction of regular air lowers and raises tire pressure which can affect gas mileage.

[Aacosner]

I agree. Car sales people are constantly going to classes and being coached on how to close the deal...keep in mind, this is what they do for a living week in and week out...they know how to do it

the average person is NEVER on a level playing field when dealing with a car sales person... add into the mix that the person is elderly and may not have done any homework and that's a 'perfect storm'

when my father-in-law retired, he sold his Toyota dealership...he always negotiated the deal for anyone in the family when it came to buying an automobile...regardless of brand

And then there's the "dealer fee" that most Florida dealers add at the bottom of the addition to try to hide it with the state fees. It seems to range from $500 to $1000 and is a Florida thing. When comparing the bottom line prices between two Florida dealers and two Ohio dealers for the identical new car, the Florida dealers were consistently higher in their on-line quotes and where they held firm. I even shared an Ohio quote I had with a Florida dealer, and the Florida dealer backed away and said they wouldn't match it. They didn't budge, or call back, so I bought the car in Ohio. I'm driving it down to The Villages this weekend. I hadn't come across this "dealer fee" trick before in other states.

[EdFNJ]

A famous person (somewhere) once said: "If you make an offer to a car dealer and they accept it you paid too much!

[EdFNJ]

That is not true. I have bought 2 vehicles from a Ford dealership that has "no haggle" prices. Been there, done that. You can ALWAYS haggle a "no haggle" price and if you didn't you likely paid too much. Why do you think they don't want you to "haggle." It ain't because they are nice guys.

[retiredguy123]

Been there, done that. You can ALWAYS haggle a "no haggle" price and if you didn't you likely paid too much. Why do you think they don't want you to "haggle." It ain't because they are nice guys.
They want you to haggle because they are better at it than you are. I never haggle with a car dealer. I let them suggest an out-the-door price, and if it is too high, I make them a take-it-or-leave-it offer, based on independent research. No haggling is necessary because they need your business more than you need theirs.

[JohnN]

Call the Orlando TV reporters, channel 9,Todd Ulrich - consumer investigations - WFTV

[arickis]

Your best bet is to reveal the dealership name and what they did to you. No immediate monetary value to you, but lost sales from bad word of mouth will definitely hurt and be felt by the dealership.

[TCNY61]

Nitrogen does not expand or contract with temperature change, the tire pressure remains constant. Expansion and contraction of regular air lowers and raises tire pressure which can affect gas mileage.

Except it is not true

Nitrogen Truths and Myths – Power Tank (https://powertank.com/pages/nitrogen-truths-and-myths#:~:text=Claim%20%231%3A%20%22Nitrogen%20does n,constant%20through%20tire%20temperature%20change s.%22&text=Bottled%20nitrogen%20is%20dry%2C%20drier,pres sure%20change%20to%20temperature%20changes).