Small white Crosses

[Kenklaw13]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.

1. Pick your battles wisely.
2. Your religion doesn't require you to advertise on your front lawn, with a white cross. So your battle cry is unfounded and without merit.
3. As long as you don't mind people putting up Wiccan pentacles, symbols of the Satanic Church, Jewish stars, the Anarchy symbol, Muslim symbols, on THEIR front lawns, it's all good right?
4. Pick your battles wisely.

Your white cross is offensive to me, but live with it because to me, it's just not worth "doing" anything about it.

[dewilson58]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.




Great first post..................Not.
I'm a Christian who signed and understood the restrictions when I moved in.
I don't need a white cross in my front yard.
Christ does not care if you have a cross in your front yard or not.

[renrod]

I've notice that there are very FEW white crosses in the historic section of The Villages. Always wondered why, then it dawned on me, BECAUSE NOBODY TOLD THEM THEY CAN'T HAVE THEM.

[dewilson58]

I've notice that there are very FEW white crosses in the historic section of The Villages. Always wondered why, then it dawned on me, BECAUSE NOBODY TOLD THEM THEY CAN'T HAVE THEM.


I'm on the other end.......South of 466a.

Very few around here.

Why??.....because I call them all in. :1rotfl:

[Dana1963]

Weren’t they to keep vampires away?

[Stu from NYC]

Lots around here. Does not bother me at all.

Now if it was larger and say lit up all night that would be another story.

[Ben Franklin]

When we first moved here, we thought those little white crosses were where people buried their pets, that had passed on.

[Velvet]

My background is Christian, studied to be a missionary. But I associate the little white crosses with death as they are used along highways to indicate someone has died in that place. I get creeped out every time I see them on front lawns. I understand that some people may get comfort from them. I don’t.

[coffeebean]

1. Pick your battles wisely.
2. Your religion doesn't require you to advertise on your front lawn, with a white cross. So your battle cry is unfounded and without merit.
3. As long as you don't mind people putting up Wiccan pentacles, symbols of the Satanic Church, Jewish stars, the Anarchy symbol, Muslim symbols, on THEIR front lawns, it's all good right?
4. Pick your battles wisely.

Your white cross is offensive to me, but live with it because to me, it's just not worth "doing" anything about it.
Agree. Those white crosses are offensive to me also. I do not like seeing the white crosses but I live with them and have never made a formal complaint about them. I must admit though, the amount of white crosses in people's yards has dropped drastically. Maybe others have been complaining about them.

[justjim]

1. Pick your battles wisely.
2. Your religion doesn't require you to advertise on your front lawn, with a white cross. So your battle cry is unfounded and without merit.
3. As long as you don't mind people putting up Wiccan pentacles, symbols of the Satanic Church, Jewish stars, the Anarchy symbol, Muslim symbols, on THEIR front lawns, it's all good right?
4. Pick your battles wisely.

Your white cross is offensive to me, but live with it because to me, it's just not worth "doing" anything about it.

We visited the Illinois Capitol building this past Holiday season. Under the big dome we immediately noticed all the various religion symbols and displays you mention. It was a scene to behold - not. Yep, careful the battles you pick and what you wish for. Deed restrictions are a good thing in my opinion.

[Red White & Blue]

Those white crosses is a way for the church to make money, then the buyer slaps it into the ground and aims it at your face all year long.

[Topspinmo]

1. Pick your battles wisely.
2. Your religion doesn't require you to advertise on your front lawn, with a white cross. So your battle cry is unfounded and without merit.
3. As long as you don't mind people putting up Wiccan pentacles, symbols of the Satanic Church, Jewish stars, the Anarchy symbol, Muslim symbols, on THEIR front lawns, it's all good right?
4. Pick your battles wisely.

Your white cross is offensive to me, but live with it because to me, it's just not worth "doing" anything about it.

Then, look the other way, lots of things are offensive to me but I can deal with it and just ignore it. Not that hard.

[dewilson58]

So you’re the troll with chipboard :popcorn:


Clipboard = Old School


Modern Day = Phone w/ camera.


:MOJE_whot:

[charmed59]

What is the meaning of the white crosses? Does it signify a Christian lives there, and true to their faith is offering help to those in need, just knock on the door and ask?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What is the meaning of the white crosses? Does it signify a Christian lives there, and true to their faith is offering help to those in need, just knock on the door and ask?

I don't know what they intend by it - there are different meanings, different connotations, different things people intend by it. Ranging from a white supremacist dogwhistle to say "KKK welcome here"..to someone who buried a pet in that spot.

As someone who drives past homes that have them I just assume they aren't comfortable enough in their own faith to NOT have to advertise it to everyone else. Like - that's the only way anyone will believe them when they say they're a christian.

Pro-tip: if you have to advertise, you're doin' it wrong.

[perrjojo]

I’m with those who thought is was a marker for a deceased pet. In fact I told my neighbor that I was sorry her pet had passed. If you must tell the world you are Christian well...I’m not impressed. Whatever your religion, live it for the good. As someone else said, yes, we have freedom of religion, not just one religion so be prepared for other symbols as well.

[VApeople]

Does it signify a Christian lives there, and true to their faith is offering help to those in need, just knock on the door and ask?

Yeah, I assume that is what it means.

I am not a Christian, but the Christians we know are the kind to help anyone in need.

[Bambi]

My neighbor has two crosses. Maybe she needs a zoning change to cemetery😁

[dewilson58]

I’m with those who thought is was a marker for a deceased pet.
I did too at first.

[charmed59]

Yeah, I assume that is what it means.

I am not a Christian, but the Christians we know are the kind to help anyone in need.

If that is the true meaning, that they signal this house will offer shelter and comfort to all, that they should be allowed.

[mamamia54]

I’m pretty sure the Church doesn’t sell them. Google the meaning of the little white cross and you will be able to read the story of how they started. I don’t know how to put the link up.

[chrisinva]

me too! How nice, I thought , to remember your pet that way.

glad I was not the only one!

[Red White & Blue]

me too! How nice, I thought , to remember your pet that way.

glad I was not the only one!

You guys thought the Villages was is a farm where you can bury pets! :1rotfl:

[Topspinmo]

I’m pretty sure the Church doesn’t sell them. Google the meaning of the little white cross and you will be able to read the story of how they started. I don’t know how to put the link up.

Who would buy two sticks put together? :)

[DeanFL]

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hmmm, was thinkin' about this one. I believe most of us in TV have the postlight out front of our homes. You know the thick vertical tube with the horizontal little pipe across, and just under the light. Many people have their name/number signs on it.

OK, that all said. What if - IF. A homeowner mounts a white cross on the INSIDE portion of this post so the vertical aligns right with the post and the horiz aligns with the cross pipe. Really not seen from the street. But the homewner can see it from their house, and any visitors leaving. hmmm - would that be a violation???

Or, better yet - what if the lamp posts are brown, and the homeowner paints, in white, the portion of the posts and crossmember to depict a cross? The paint is approved color - the homeowner just did not finish the job. A white cross is there.

just sayin'....
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[Astron]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.
“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.” (Matthew 6:5-6)

[Miguel 1952]

Living in Paradise - most retired, some money and worrying about a little white cross. Incredible!

[Nannyof3]

Why was it a scene to behold - NOT?

[Cheapbas]

Great first post..................Not.
I'm a Christian who signed and understood the restrictions when I moved in.
I don't need a white cross in my front yard.
Christ does not care if you have a cross in your front yard or not.

So what do you do about people who wear crosses around their neck? Isn’t the symbolism the same?

These are “small” white crosses, not obnoxious religious displays.

I keep my religion very private, I don’t like having others shove their ideas in my face. But I am cool with the crosses, it’s a polite display That to me says protect this household.

As long as this is kept low key, let them be.

[Skunky1]

Some religions would like to display their swastika is that OK with you?

[coffeebean]

So what do you do about people who wear crosses around their neck? Isn’t the symbolism the same?

These are “small” white crosses, not obnoxious religious displays.

I keep my religion very private, I don’t like having others shove their ideas in my face. But I am cool with the crosses, it’s a polite display That to me says protect this household.

As long as this is kept low key, let them be.

"Low key", to me, means not visible from the street. When I can see those little white crosses, that, to me, is not "low key". I have no problem with placing those little white crosses BEHIND a shrub so the cross is not visible to anyone. If the homeowner wants the cross in their yard for "whatever reason", it will serve that purpose even if it is placed BEHIND a shrub.

[swooner]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.
All for religious freedom and all kinds of freedom of choice, including political preferences. Believe symbols of all those things should remain in the house and not be on display in front yards.

[John corallo]

There is nothing wrong with a white cross. Or any religious crosses it’s a free world. I noticed i the villages people have nothing to do but to go around and look for trouble. It’s like being in high school again

[drgoofy]

Are the crosses there as a warning to keep all other religions away? If they're such great Christians, why would they need to advertise? Wouldn't we all know by their Jesus-esque actions???

[bonrich]

I thought the white cross was placed in remembrance of a relative or close friend that had passed.

[Windguy]

They are essentially gang signs to show the world what gang you belong to. It’s like tagging is in urban areas.

[BryanTheGolfPro]

How many golf carts advertise the owners' favorite college/pro team, etc.? Are you offended? The nameplate on our driveway lamp post is the colors of and contains the logo of our Alma Mater--along with our names. Are you offended? On the other hand, Jews, Muslims, Atheists--and especially Christians--agreed to conform to the covenants when we bought our homes. (Read Romans 13.) However, no covenants prevent me from putting a large Star of David, Crescent Moon--and especially a Cross on the INSIDE of a street-facing window. This demonstrates my beliefs; I've conformed to the covenants; and everybody lives. Though silly, here's food for thought: Is the Atheist violating the covenants by NOT putting a symbol of his (non) beliefs in HIS yard. Does his "symbol" offend?

[Bellavita]

What if I worshiped Hitler could I put a small tasteful swastika in my yard? Protected by my freedom of religion?

[mamamia54]

Who would buy two sticks put together? :)

I once heard (you know how hearing things goes) that a man in Spanish Springs makes them and puts them out for free for anyone who wants one.

[J1ceasar]

Same here. And there is a great bible section about praying in a closet ( meaning don't wear your religion around your neck)
No offense intended.

[jonathanb]

The cross is foolishness to those that are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

[J1ceasar]

Funny

[William S. Cook]

Amen

[J1ceasar]

Back up north especially in Italian sections we have those that put out statues of Mary. In fact there is some that believe you have to bury a statue of Mary in your lawn for good luck. I would just like to remind people Ed Moses spend 40 years in the desert and lost a good percentage of Jews because they prayed 2 Pagan statues IE the golden calf. The cross comes very close to the same thing. When I came down here 15 years ago I was truly amazed and how many people went to church and prayed every Sunday as well as went to Bible study one or two days a week. I am really blessed with many good friends that are religious and truly truly good people. In my own family I have those are Jewish oh, those that are Christian scientists, those that are Christian does that are Protestant and a few that believe in Oriental religions as well because they are from Japan. I hold no grudge against anyone due to their religious beliefs but please keep in mind as someone said above if you're going to put out your cross, be ready for ritual Slaughter of lambs and annual spring rites I Pagan's

[LoisR]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.
Display them in your home. I wonder who benefits from their sale?

[MDLNB]

Why do folks have to display the American flag? After all, we are all Americans, right? Why do we have to see holiday displays throughout the year? Do we have to broadcast our beliefs or following of holidays?
Get over it folks. Sure, deed restrictions.

[Blackbird45]

I am a none religious liberal from New Yorker.

In my neighborhood here in The Villages there is a home with a flag proudly displaying the star of David and another home has a large flag promoting Trump.

One I do not understand this compulsion of displaying someone’s beliefs, but I also do not understand the big fuss. Neither of these things offend me, I believe people have become too intolerant.

[MDLNB]

Display them in your home. I wonder who benefits from their sale?


They're free.

[MDLNB]

Those white crosses is a way for the church to make money, then the buyer slaps it into the ground and aims it at your face all year long.


What church is making money from them? They are free.

[Girlcopper]

If that is the true meaning, that they signal this house will offer shelter and comfort to all, that they should be allowed.



Oh please! Lets have them line up and turn the house into a food bank for all. Then lets see how much you feel it should be allowed

[1wietrzak]

FYI - the crosses are free. Did you pay for one?

[terenceanne]

They don't bother me personally however the rules of TV are designed to keep it pristine for all. I accept the rules and put up with the ones I don't like....If you don't like the rules here then go live somewhere else.

[Mikee1]

I am amazed. 4 pages about the little white crosses. Some love em some are offended by them. If they offend you and that is the worst thing in your life you should be grateful for a good life. If you are bored and post about subjects that are not helpful or trying to instigate arguments, I would suggest getting a hobby

[jimh123]

I got mine ! Ain't coming down !

[Leadbone1]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.

Totally agree! I understand the need for deed restrictions and I am glad they are there for the most part. But deed restrictions that violate your constitutional rights cannot stand. The first amendment guarantees you the free exercise thereof with regard to your religion. It doesn’t say except if a deed restriction doesn’t like it! If there is a deed restriction with regard to a cross in your yard it should be with regard to the size of it, not whether you can have it or not. Obviously we would not want someone putting a 15 foot high cross in their front yard. Common sense needs to be applied

[jdrahaim]

The white crosses are made by volunteers who use their own money. The Churches make no money on them. They are free. Maybe if you don’t display one you are afraid to show your Christianity but don’t complain because someone has the courage to show his true colors.

[charmed59]

I got mine ! Ain't coming down !

How many people has that cross in your yard enabled you to help?

[DecaturFargo]

And white crosses in the front yards must go.

[Marathon Man]

If you have to have a little white cross in your yard to feel like a good person, maybe you need to think about that.

[Denvercane]

My background is Christian, studied to be a missionary. But I associate the little white crosses with death as they are used along highways to indicate someone has died in that place. I get creeped out every time I see them on front lawns. I understand that some people may get comfort from them. I don’t.

You can't possibly be that narrow minded. If so, you must pass out driving by a cemetery!

[Bill1701]

The crosses violate the deed restrictions. Simple as that. If the people with them win the legal battle then I plan to put them up all along my property line to keep the dogs out. After all, if one is good, a hundred must be better!

[Byte1]

Rules and laws are flexible, or can be flexible. Look at how laws are enforced by law enforcement and by the court system. Speeders often get warnings, and judges give probation or community service instead of the statutory penalty.
When I moved to the Villages, I did not notice the little white crosses. I do not know when residents started displaying them. I believe someone pointed one out to me a year or so ago. I did not notice that many of my neighbors display them, some in the middle of their yard in their landscaping. Now, I look for them to see how many claim to be Christian. I assume that they are Christian. Since I hardly notice them without intentionally looking for them, I do not find them to be overbearing or offensive. They do not bother me at all, and I find complaints about them to be foolish. To complain about something that gives a bit of joy and happiness to those that display them, seems to be nasty and hurtful in nature. To go out of your way to be deliberately hurtful to seniors attempting to find peace in their twilight years is (I was about to say UN-Christian) against our concept of how real Americans care for and support each other. Exactly what harm are these little crosses doing that agitates so much poison in folks? Perhaps those that are offended by the subject of divinity or the relationship of showing support for one's faith, should do a bit of introspection. Just a suggestion.
The little white crosses have been given away FREE. So, no one that I know of is making a profit from them. Who would care if they were making a profit from them?
Someone mentioned the displaying of a flag as an example. Yes, the flag is legally displayed in the Villages. What is the purpose of displaying the flag? To show your patriotism and support for your country. Does anyone have a problem with that? If not, why does showing support for one's religion or faith bother/offend you?
Granted, there are deed restrictions in certain areas of the Villages. Not where I live, so homes are pleasantly personalized with all kinds of items, including the crosses. I did not even notice the little crosses being displayed until I read about the controversy in the local newspaper. Then, I found that about half my neighbors are displaying them and I had not even noticed. Where some find it offensive (for some strange reason) I find them comforting. I did not know what they stood for until a friend informed me of the story behind them.
Someone else mentioned "would you like to see Jewish, Wicken, Buddist and Muslim symbols in yards?" I wonder why that would offend anyone. I would simply marvel at how nice it is to live in America with the Freedom of speech and religion. Atheists are offended? Yes, of course. Perhaps they should be.
Yes, there are deed restrictions. There are also laws broken in the Villages every single day of the year. I have not had a day go by where a golf cart has not busted through a Stop sign, most of the time not even slowing. Sorry, but that is violation of the LAW, not a deed restriction.
What a pitiful and petty complaint; offended by a little white cross. Like I said, better figure out why you are offended before the poison eats your soul. Everyone has preferences. What does it tell you when a little white cross or a plaster turtle in someone's yard "OFFENDS" you.
By the way, it does not offend me if you do not agree with me. Either way, GOD bless you.

[Tadpole]

Those white crosses is a way for the church to make money, then the buyer slaps it into the ground and aims it at your face all year long.
I know of no church that sells the little white crosses. They are made by individuals and given away free of charge; donations accepted. Nor do they have anything to do with “death” (Velvet). If you care to hear the facts, here is a link to the true story behind the White Cross Movement: White crosses spread through yards with help from Lancaster couple - News - The Columbus Dispatch - Columbus, OH (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/08/28/white-crosses-spread-through-yards.html)
Fact-checked by Snopes Frankenmuth Crosses (http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/frankenmuth.asp) and others.

[Andyb]

Anyone know where I can buy these white crosses? I would like to see them everywhere. Today’s world needs it.

[Rzepecki]

Agree. Those white crosses are offensive to me also. I do not like seeing the white crosses but I live with them and have never made a formal complaint about them. I must admit though, the amount of white crosses in people's yards has dropped drastically. Maybe others have been complaining about them.

Ditto.

[MandoMan]

1. Pick your battles wisely.
2. Your religion doesn't require you to advertise on your front lawn, with a white cross. So your battle cry is unfounded and without merit.
3. As long as you don't mind people putting up Wiccan pentacles, symbols of the Satanic Church, Jewish stars, the Anarchy symbol, Muslim symbols, on THEIR front lawns, it's all good right?
4. Pick your battles wisely.

Your white cross is offensive to me, but live with it because to me, it's just not worth "doing" anything about it.

You are exactly right. Jesus didn’t say, “If you believe in me, put a little white cross on your lawn, even if it is against the rules you signed, and then sue when you are told to take it down.” He said “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” A white cross is not “good works.” Wearing a cross is not “good works.” Good works includes kindness, generosity, forgiveness, helping those in need. Thousands in The Villages who don’t have white crosses do good works, whatever their religious beliefs. “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”

The person complaining is entirely free to put small or even large white cross on his or her golf cart, or a bumper sticker on his or her car, or wear clothing with crosses on it. I appreciate the regulations regarding decorations on lawns, for the reasons you say. This isn’t a matter of religious liberty. Many of my ancestors left England, or Germany, or Switzerland, or Denmark because they didn’t want to be members of the state church. We don’t have a state church. Some of them went to prison. Some were fined or even had their estates taken away. Some were Protestant. Some were Catholic. Putting a little white cross on the lawn isn’t worth fighting about so long as you can worship and believe the way you want to.

[Craig Vernon]

My two cents. The white crosses in peoples yards in my non-deed restricted neighborhood stand for Faith over Fear related to the virus. I do not have one but the sentiment is nothing anyone should be offended by. TV have deed restrictions self policed by other residents if someone took issue then remove it, that is called respecting others a good Christian principle. Living in paradise enjoy it, protect it, cherish it!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Totally agree! I understand the need for deed restrictions and I am glad they are there for the most part. But deed restrictions that violate your constitutional rights cannot stand. The first amendment guarantees you the free exercise thereof with regard to your religion. It doesn’t say except if a deed restriction doesn’t like it! If there is a deed restriction with regard to a cross in your yard it should be with regard to the size of it, not whether you can have it or not. Obviously we would not want someone putting a 15 foot high cross in their front yard. Common sense needs to be applied

That's a contradiction. You can't have it both ways.

If YOUR interpretation of "freedom of religion" means you can put a white cross on your front yard, then YOUR interpretation must ALSO mean you can put a 15-foot-high cross in your front yard.

Freedom means lack of restrictions. Either you have it, or you don't.

In the case of the Villages, you are restricted, in most of the neighborhoods. There are some neighborhoods that allow it, some that don't expressly forbid it and it's therefore left up to the homeowner.

You don't get to have freedom of religion (within reason). If there are conditions on your freedom, then it is not freedom.

On the other hand - you also have rights - which are not freedoms.

You have the right to argue this with the ARC when they tell you that you have to remove the cross. They have the right to maintain that the cross is a lawn decoration and make you take it down. You have the right to maintain that the cross is a religious symbol and you want to leave it up.

But remember if you leave it up, it means EVERYONE in the neighborhood has the right to put up THEIR religious symbols in THEIR yards. And you might not end up liking what you see.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

My two cents. The white crosses in peoples yards in my non-deed restricted neighborhood stand for Faith over Fear related to the virus. I do not have one but the sentiment is nothing anyone should be offended by. TV have deed restrictions self policed by other residents if someone took issue then remove it, that is called respecting others a good Christian principle. Living in paradise enjoy it, protect it, cherish it!

The crosses in my neighborhood were here when we started looking for houses to buy in this neighborhood last September. The virus hadn't arrived yet. They are a religious symbol, which again - is offensive to me, but isn't a big enough deal to DO anything about it. I moved to this part of the Villages, partly, because of fewer restrictions. I'll take the good with the bad, it's that wiggle-room for creative expression that I appreciate. Even if I don't like the white crosses. It's just a matter of taste. Like the house with the toilet seat in his driveway and a ridiculous hand-written sign on it that says "[political candidate's] world" on it, implying that the political candidate's world is down the toilet.

Tacky and ridiculous, but that says more about the neighbor than it does about the neighborhood.

[davem4616]

I am amazed. 4 pages about the little white crosses. Some love em some are offended by them. If they offend you and that is the worst thing in your life you should be grateful for a good life. If you are bored and post about subjects that are not helpful or trying to instigate arguments, I would suggest getting a hobby


Mikee1 I totally agree with you

[quietpine]

I read that the white cross originated in Wisconsin as a protest. Yes folks, the people who display those crosses are protestors! You know, like the people protesting police shootings of unarmed black men.

[Byte1]

Anyone know where I can buy these white crosses? I would like to see them everywhere. Today’s world needs it.

I believe that there is a guy at the Knights of Columbus that gives them away, FREE.

It makes me feel good to see folks displaying them. I also enjoy seeing the American flag displayed throughout the Villages. It's great to know there are so many good people in the Villages, and the evidence of the American flag and the little crosses makes the neighborhood appear welcoming. That's my opinion and it is not going to bother me if some do not approve. It does amaze me that so many individuals are so miserable and pitiful that they can't be happy living among such a large group of decent and charitable people. It appears that many really miss their home states up North, where I am sure they enjoyed life much better.

[cherylncliff]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.
And indeed you are free to practice whatever religion or non-religion belief you want as long as you do not infringe on other people's rights. In this case, the display of any lawn ornament is forbidden in some of the districts per an agreement that you sign and agree to abide when you purchase. That is the issue here, not religion but obeying the legal agreement that was signed.

[talleyjm]

:ho::ohdear:Living in Paradise - most retired, some money and worrying about a little white cross. Incredible!

You hit the nail on the head. I’m really surprised that a small, white cross outside of a neighbor’s home can offend folk.

[Byte1]

And indeed you are free to practice whatever religion or non-religion belief you want as long as you do not infringe on other people's rights. In this case, the display of any lawn ornament is forbidden in some of the districts per an agreement that you sign and agree to abide when you purchase. That is the issue here, not religion but obeying the legal agreement that was signed.

How does violating a deed restriction "infringe on other people's rights?" I agree that folks should not display a little white cross on YOUR property. That might "infringe on" your rights. But, I do not see how a deed violation "infringes on other people's rights."

[talleyjm]

Agree. Those white crosses are offensive to me also. I do not like seeing the white crosses but I live with them and have never made a formal complaint about them. I must admit though, the amount of white crosses in people's yards has dropped drastically. Maybe others have been complaining about them.

Are your delicate sensibilities also offended when you spot a crucifix around a person’s neck?

[kendi]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.

“Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.” In other words, follow the rules. Display the cross under the guidelines that the owner should have been aware of when they bought. I don’t remember lawlessness being promoted in the Bible.

[sallybowron]

I'm on the other end.......South of 466a.

Very few around here.

Why??.....because I call them all in. :1rotfl:

Why do we spend so much time worrying about when there are so many great things to do around here? I will grant you that we have been stuck at home more since the pandemic started, but why waste the time we do have by fighting :boxing2::boxing2::boxing2:?

[kendi]

I read that the white cross originated in Wisconsin as a protest. Yes folks, the people who display those crosses are protestors! You know, like the people protesting police shootings of unarmed black men.

The little white crosses have been around for decades. And not as a protest against police

[benj]

Everyone who has a white cross displayed signed a contract promising to abide by the rules. Everyone of you who now display crosses are dishonest people. Not very Christian if you ask

[Pbthrockm@msn.com]

The Knights of Columbus knows the story about the white cross.
Placing a white cross in your yard makes a statement

It means In God We Trust we are a Christian nation. Our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
We stand together for our religious heritage and freedom.

[kendi]

If you have to have a little white cross in your yard to feel like a good person, maybe you need to think about that.

Probably doesn’t feel good getting blasted with complaints. Doubt your interpretation of their intentions is accurate.

[Pamelah]

:ho::ohdear:

You hit the nail on the head. I’m really surprised that a small, white cross outside of a neighbor’s home can offend folk.
We are all different. What you like I may not. What I find disagreeable you might be ok with. It’s what makes us a country and tolerance of others beliefs is key. As someone earlier here said, I don’t feel a need to live full time up north, we love the Villages. But for peace and harmony deeded restrictions should be enforced.

[kendi]

Are the crosses there as a warning to keep all other religions away? If they're such great Christians, why would they need to advertise? Wouldn't we all know by their Jesus-esque actions???

Evangelize, not advertise. And it’s not about being exclusive as you suggest. You certainly don’t understand Christianity. Best to know what you’re talking about before criticizing.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The Knights of Columbus knows the story about the white cross.
Placing a white cross in your yard makes a statement

It means In God We Trust we are a Christian nation. Our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
We stand together for our religious heritage and freedom.

The cross has *nothing* to do with Judeo anything. The Jewish religion was founded on the Old Testament. Christianity bypasses it and skips over to the New Testament.

[Marshaw]

OMG people. They are in yards to let people know that this particular house is housing Christian's. It's just fine to have them. Most importantly I beleive they are legal only north of 466

[HogPilot]

I’m with those who thought is was a marker for a deceased pet. In fact I told my neighbor that I was sorry her pet had passed. If you must tell the world you are Christian well...I’m not impressed. Whatever your religion, live it for the good. As someone else said, yes, we have freedom of religion, not just one religion so be prepared for other symbols as well.

I too always thought it was for a resident whose pet that passed away until I read this forum post.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

“Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.” In other words, follow the rules. Display the cross under the guidelines that the owner should have been aware of when they bought. I don’t remember lawlessness being promoted in the Bible.

I think you have absolutely no idea what that means. And it's "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's", translated from the greek Ἀπόδοτε οὖν τὰ Καίσαρος Καίσαρι καὶ τὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῷ Θεῷ from the book of Matthew.

The context - is that the Roman authorities demanded that Judeans pay a special poll tax. Theoretically, Jesus was expected to oppose this tax, though there's controversy on whether or not the coin used to symbolize the tax even existed when Jesus was alive.

So once again, we have persecution of the Jews, in the name of religion.

[Velvet]

The cross has *nothing* to do with Judeo anything. The Jewish religion was founded on the Old Testament. Christianity bypasses it and skips over to the New Testament.

Well, not everywhere. At my Bible College each testament was given equal value historically. Creation starts with the Old Testament. If you leave it out you have only half the story. I actually even knew all the “begats” at one point. Interpretations may differ though. One had to understand the original language it was written in. My first boyfriend in high school was a rabbi’s son and I remember how differently we could interpret the same passages.

[Curtisbwp]

I thought if it was kept under the eve of the house it is ok, but not sure. On the flip side, is it ok to place a statue of SATAN on a lawn??

[bpascani]

I would not consider putting a cross up in defiance , but I would be more than willing to sign a petition to allow it. I don't want to get anything new started, but, there are many other 'yard ornaments' in many yards/front gardens in lots of "villages" here, so I don't see the problem. I never knew what they symbolized anyway....made my own assumption, then was told it was something else...and now this...none of these subjects are offensive, IMO.

[024engine]

I understand there is a lawsuit pending against a village household for displaying a small white cross in their yard. The last time I looked at the constitution,we were still guaranteed freedom"of" religion and not freedom "from" religion.
Time for Christians to stand up and be counted. Would be interesting to see hundreds if not thousands of "little white crosses"
pop-up all over the villages.

God is great; Beer is good; People are crazy!
KenK.
I rode around my neighborhood a couple of evenings I go and in a half an hour's time sounded 47 little white crosses. How can you charge one person with a violation when there are thousands of little white crosses in The Villages?

[Byte1]

“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone..."

Being offended by a li'l white cross in someone else's yard amuses me. PC seems to run rampant everywhere today. Heaven help the grandkids if something as minor as this is life changing for some pitiful and miserable people. Sorry if I do not take the offense seriously. I KNOW how important someone else's minor infraction is to some that have no lives.
Since it is obviously NOT against my deed restrictions to display a cross in my yard, I think I will put one in the same area as my little garden gnome. For anyone that gets hit by the trolls, that may own a couple of those big gray bird yard ornaments, I'll be interested in purchasing them for a decent price. I might try to find a couple of those pink flamingos to put in my front yard, if I can find some that aren't plastic.

[Byte1]

The cross has *nothing* to do with Judeo anything. The Jewish religion was founded on the Old Testament. Christianity bypasses it and skips over to the New Testament.

Some folks should look up the term "Judeo Christian" and see how it is used in the statement that was made. I don't know where some folks went to Bible school, but Christianity NEVER "bypassed" the old Testament. I sincerely hope that my intent to correct a misconception was not "offensive."

[Dburesh]

We got a call from Community Standards to take our cross down!

[Byte1]

Everyone who has a white cross displayed signed a contract promising to abide by the rules. Everyone of you who now display crosses are dishonest people. Not very Christian if you ask

No offense meant, but if I was going to ask anyone if something I was doing was Christian-like, I would ask GOD. You know, someone that would really know and give me an honest answer. :pray:

[PugMom]

All for religious freedom and all kinds of freedom of choice, including political preferences. Believe symbols of all those things should remain in the house and not be on display in front yards.

dittos. why not just place them indoors? i'm not anti-religion, but a deed is a deed. i'd think it would be more comforting inside where the family can see it, no?

[cindyfeh]

The cross has *nothing* to do with Judeo anything. The Jewish religion was founded on the Old Testament. Christianity bypasses it and skips over to the New Testament.
Christians do not skip the Old Testament. The New Testament fulfills the OT. Our country was founded on Judeo Christian ethics.

[Velvet]

No offense meant, but if I was going to ask anyone if something I was doing was Christian-like, I would ask GOD. You know, someone that would really know and give me an honest answer. :pray:

You made me smile.

You know “Fiddler on the Roof”? I’ve often been jealous of how Tevye, the dairyman, in the show, seems to just be able to talk to God as I would, say to my uncle. Wouldn’t it be nice?

My impression is that these little white crosses mean different things to different people.

[coffeebean]

They're free.

Who ever gives them away has an agenda.

[coffeebean]

Totally agree! I understand the need for deed restrictions and I am glad they are there for the most part. But deed restrictions that violate your constitutional rights cannot stand. The first amendment guarantees you the free exercise thereof with regard to your religion. It doesn’t say except if a deed restriction doesn’t like it! If there is a deed restriction with regard to a cross in your yard it should be with regard to the size of it, not whether you can have it or not. Obviously we would not want someone putting a 15 foot high cross in their front yard. Common sense needs to be applied

The first amendment is all about the freedom to worship your religion in your preferred place of worship. I honestly don't believe the first amendment is addressing your right to display little white crosses in your front yard.

[coffeebean]

And white crosses in the front yards must go.

There are white crosses in people's back yard but those back yards face major roads with lots of traffic.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I thought if it was kept under the eve of the house it is ok, but not sure. On the flip side, is it ok to place a statue of SATAN on a lawn??

If it's okay to place the physical representation of the device used to torture and murder the "savior" of someone's religion, then it's okay to place the physical representation of a deity, regardless of anyone's opinion of that deity. Satan was either a god or a demi-god, depending on your religion. Seems kosher to me for someone to put up a statue of one, as their personal religious symbol.

Unless - religious symbols aren't allowed on lawns. In which case - people need to get the white crosses off their lawns.

[Marathon Man]

Here is an idea. Those of you who are certain that you have a right to place a cross in your yard, go ahead and report yourself to Community Standards. Then you can put your money where your mouth is and begin your legal fight to keep it.

[coffeebean]

I know of no church that sells the little white crosses. They are made by individuals and given away free of charge; donations accepted. Nor do they have anything to do with “death” (Velvet). If you care to hear the facts, here is a link to the true story behind the White Cross Movement: White crosses spread through yards with help from Lancaster couple - News - The Columbus Dispatch - Columbus, OH (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/08/28/white-crosses-spread-through-yards.html)
Fact-checked by Snopes Frankenmuth Crosses (http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/frankenmuth.asp) and others.

I was unaware there was a "movement". Another reason to nix those little white crosses.

[jimjamuser]

.
.
.
hmmm, was thinkin' about this one. I believe most of us in TV have the postlight out front of our homes. You know the thick vertical tube with the horizontal little pipe across, and just under the light. Many people have their name/number signs on it.

OK, that all said. What if - IF. A homeowner mounts a white cross on the INSIDE portion of this post so the vertical aligns right with the post and the horiz aligns with the cross pipe. Really not seen from the street. But the homewner can see it from their house, and any visitors leaving. hmmm - would that be a violation???

Or, better yet - what if the lamp posts are brown, and the homeowner paints, in white, the portion of the posts and crossmember to depict a cross? The paint is approved color - the homeowner just did not finish the job. A white cross is there.

just sayin'....
.
.
.
That sort of overthinks the subject. I liked the post about the crosses keeping away the vampires. But, they do attract trolls and "do good-ers". I wonder which is worse vampires or trolls and the do good-ers? Help me out! I won't be able to sleep tonight - pondering this great philosophical dilemma.

[coffeebean]

The crosses in my neighborhood were here when we started looking for houses to buy in this neighborhood last September. The virus hadn't arrived yet. They are a religious symbol, which again - is offensive to me, but isn't a big enough deal to DO anything about it. I moved to this part of the Villages, partly, because of fewer restrictions. I'll take the good with the bad, it's that wiggle-room for creative expression that I appreciate. Even if I don't like the white crosses. It's just a matter of taste. Like the house with the toilet seat in his driveway and a ridiculous hand-written sign on it that says "[political candidate's] world" on it, implying that the political candidate's world is down the toilet.

Tacky and ridiculous, but that says more about the neighbor than it does about the neighborhood.

That toilet is allowed in your neighborhood? It is not violating any restrictions?

[coffeebean]

I read that the white cross originated in Wisconsin as a protest. Yes folks, the people who display those crosses are protestors! You know, like the people protesting police shootings of unarmed black men.

What were those people protesting?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Some folks should look up the term "Judeo Christian" and see how it is used in the statement that was made. I don't know where some folks went to Bible school, but Christianity NEVER "bypassed" the old Testament. I sincerely hope that my intent to correct a misconception was not "offensive."

The whole point of Christianity is that Jesus died for the sins of man. Jesus's "way" replaced that of the Old Testament. All the laws and rules and regulations and stipulations of the Old Testament were no longer necessary, and the NEW Way was the Way.

It eliminated the laws of Kosher. You no longer had to stone your son to death in the town square if your son disrespected his mother. You no longer had to reject pork. You no longer had to isolate yourself from civilization if you were menstruating. You were no longer required to cover your hair if you were a married woman.

All of these rules - were no longer valid. And all of those rules were rules of the Old Testament. The New Testament said, basically, "hey y'know all that stuff we said you had to do before? Fuggedaboudit."

Even the term itself - "Christianity" didn't exist until after Jesus was already dead. The New Testament essentially retcons the old Testament, says "yeah that old stuff is just fairy tales - read this instead. Pretend I'm Bill Maher and these are the NEW RULES."

[coffeebean]

:ho::ohdear:

You hit the nail on the head. I’m really surprised that a small, white cross outside of a neighbor’s home can offend folk.

It is not the white cross but the MEANING of the white cross. THAT is what offends me. Get it?

[coffeebean]

Are your delicate sensibilities also offended when you spot a crucifix around a person’s neck?

Actually, yes. No need to profess your religion as a badge of honor for all the world to see. Just not necessary. As a kid I would not wear that cross around my neck. Just was not going to do it. My parents understood. They never wore one either.

[coffeebean]

We got a call from Community Standards to take our cross down!

That was complaint driven. That's why I'm thinking the diminished numbers of little white crosses in our neck of the woods is because people are complaining about them

[jimjamuser]

They are essentially gang signs to show the world what gang you belong to. It’s like tagging is in urban areas.
That's funny! And good thinking outside the box. Kudos!

[NoVa_Jim]

At least those who put crosses in their front yards across the nation are not the ones rioting and looting in all those cities.

They are also likely not doing much to address the tragic state of race relations in our country, which the Guy who is remembered by the cross would certainly wish for them to do.

[Velvet]

My impression was that it was so difficult to follow all the rules of the Old Testament that many people failed. And the Creator provided alternative ways, which is the Creator’s prerogative, so that more people would be successful. Not to negate, but to add.

[jimjamuser]

The cross is foolishness to those that are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
That is the perfect example of both anthropological stone-age tribalism and the modern-day carry-over into the creation of wedge issues that cause social disruption and chaos. Maybe religion is the conduit between the 2? If religion can possibly cause disruption, then is that the basis for all government attempts to "separate church and state"? Is it reasonable that the state is THREATENED by the POWER of the church? Is ANY church easily corrupted as exemplified by recent Jerry Falwell Jr. news and Catholic Priests and young boys? Is ANY church MORE vulnerable to corruption than any government organization? Or are they equally corruptable?

[Velvet]

Amazing and thoughtful thread, thank you to many people’s contributions. I am learning as we go along.

[Byte1]

The whole point of Christianity is that Jesus died for the sins of man. Jesus's "way" replaced that of the Old Testament. All the laws and rules and regulations and stipulations of the Old Testament were no longer necessary, and the NEW Way was the Way.

It eliminated the laws of Kosher. You no longer had to stone your son to death in the town square if your son disrespected his mother. You no longer had to reject pork. You no longer had to isolate yourself from civilization if you were menstruating. You were no longer required to cover your hair if you were a married woman.

All of these rules - were no longer valid. And all of those rules were rules of the Old Testament. The New Testament said, basically, "hey y'know all that stuff we said you had to do before? Fuggedaboudit."

Even the term itself - "Christianity" didn't exist until after Jesus was already dead. The New Testament essentially retcons the old Testament, says "yeah that old stuff is just fairy tales - read this instead. Pretend I'm Bill Maher and these are the NEW RULES."

You must have misunderstood what I said. Apologies. The post that you commented on referred to our country being founded on Judeo-Christian principles, or whatever the exact wording might have been. And when someone suggests that the Old Testament was skipped by Christians, it shows a lack of knowledge on the subject.

[jimjamuser]

Back up north especially in Italian sections we have those that put out statues of Mary. In fact there is some that believe you have to bury a statue of Mary in your lawn for good luck. I would just like to remind people Ed Moses spend 40 years in the desert and lost a good percentage of Jews because they prayed 2 Pagan statues IE the golden calf. The cross comes very close to the same thing. When I came down here 15 years ago I was truly amazed and how many people went to church and prayed every Sunday as well as went to Bible study one or two days a week. I am really blessed with many good friends that are religious and truly truly good people. In my own family I have those are Jewish oh, those that are Christian scientists, those that are Christian does that are Protestant and a few that believe in Oriental religions as well because they are from Japan. I hold no grudge against anyone due to their religious beliefs but please keep in mind as someone said above if you're going to put out your cross, be ready for ritual Slaughter of lambs and annual spring rites I Pagan's
When you take the cross out of your house and plant it in your front yard for passing cars to see, ask yourself the question,"Where do you go, when you've gone TOO far?"

[Byte1]

They are also likely not doing much to address the tragic state of race relations in our country, which the Guy who is remembered by the cross would certainly wish for them to do.

Probably because until about 8 years ago, the "state of race relations in our country" was very good. In 8 years, the perception of race relations has deteriorated. And it seems that those folks that are associated with the faith represented by the cross seem to be the ones that did NOT endorse slavery and actually were the ones that lead to the abolishment of slavery. I would bet (if I was a betting person) that the majority of those blacks are Christian today. I do not pretend to know how GOD thinks, but I do know that there has been a history of worldwide racial relations and worldwide slavery throughout history. So, I doubt anyone knows exactly what GOD is thinking about it.

[jimjamuser]

The crosses violate the deed restrictions. Simple as that. If the people with them win the legal battle then I plan to put them up all along my property line to keep the dogs out. After all, if one is good, a hundred must be better!
The dogs might turn the white signs into yellow signs. Maybe a new law suit will be needed.

[drcar]

This post has gone off subject. The question is not about religion, it is about placing a lawn ornament in the yard which is against the agreement we all signed. The person who is fighting the rule is fighting it based on being singled out, selective enforcement. About the system of reporting. People seem to forget that the issues started out with a cross and a spinning multi colored bird. They have removed the bird, but the cross remains. The point is one lawn ornament remains. Some post say its just a small cross, well who determines what size is okay. Maybe the rules of reporting are not good, but be careful what you asked for! Fees may go up, if we start paying for people to drive around and report. Just put the cross and the bird on the porch, problem solved!

[jimjamuser]

Rules and laws are flexible, or can be flexible. Look at how laws are enforced by law enforcement and by the court system. Speeders often get warnings, and judges give probation or community service instead of the statutory penalty.
When I moved to the Villages, I did not notice the little white crosses. I do not know when residents started displaying them. I believe someone pointed one out to me a year or so ago. I did not notice that many of my neighbors display them, some in the middle of their yard in their landscaping. Now, I look for them to see how many claim to be Christian. I assume that they are Christian. Since I hardly notice them without intentionally looking for them, I do not find them to be overbearing or offensive. They do not bother me at all, and I find complaints about them to be foolish. To complain about something that gives a bit of joy and happiness to those that display them, seems to be nasty and hurtful in nature. To go out of your way to be deliberately hurtful to seniors attempting to find peace in their twilight years is (I was about to say UN-Christian) against our concept of how real Americans care for and support each other. Exactly what harm are these little crosses doing that agitates so much poison in folks? Perhaps those that are offended by the subject of divinity or the relationship of showing support for one's faith, should do a bit of introspection. Just a suggestion.
The little white crosses have been given away FREE. So, no one that I know of is making a profit from them. Who would care if they were making a profit from them?
Someone mentioned the displaying of a flag as an example. Yes, the flag is legally displayed in the Villages. What is the purpose of displaying the flag? To show your patriotism and support for your country. Does anyone have a problem with that? If not, why does showing support for one's religion or faith bother/offend you?
Granted, there are deed restrictions in certain areas of the Villages. Not where I live, so homes are pleasantly personalized with all kinds of items, including the crosses. I did not even notice the little crosses being displayed until I read about the controversy in the local newspaper. Then, I found that about half my neighbors are displaying them and I had not even noticed. Where some find it offensive (for some strange reason) I find them comforting. I did not know what they stood for until a friend informed me of the story behind them.
Someone else mentioned "would you like to see Jewish, Wicken, Buddist and Muslim symbols in yards?" I wonder why that would offend anyone. I would simply marvel at how nice it is to live in America with the Freedom of speech and religion. Atheists are offended? Yes, of course. Perhaps they should be.
Yes, there are deed restrictions. There are also laws broken in the Villages every single day of the year. I have not had a day go by where a golf cart has not busted through a Stop sign, most of the time not even slowing. Sorry, but that is violation of the LAW, not a deed restriction.
What a pitiful and petty complaint; offended by a little white cross. Like I said, better figure out why you are offended before the poison eats your soul. Everyone has preferences. What does it tell you when a little white cross or a plaster turtle in someone's yard "OFFENDS" you.
By the way, it does not offend me if you do not agree with me. Either way, GOD bless you.
Finally, a post that I can agree with and not criticize. Amazing! I won't even mention length in this case. It was a voice for moderation. Praise the great spirit of the good earth and harvest. Got to love the moderation. KUDOS!

[jimjamuser]

I know of no church that sells the little white crosses. They are made by individuals and given away free of charge; donations accepted. Nor do they have anything to do with “death” (Velvet). If you care to hear the facts, here is a link to the true story behind the White Cross Movement: White crosses spread through yards with help from Lancaster couple - News - The Columbus Dispatch - Columbus, OH (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/08/28/white-crosses-spread-through-yards.html)
Fact-checked by Snopes Frankenmuth Crosses (http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/frankenmuth.asp) and others.
Wow! Cute emojiis! Could you please come and paint those on the front of my house. Please, please.

[Byte1]

Here is an idea. Those of you who are certain that you have a right to place a cross in your yard, go ahead and report yourself to Community Standards. Then you can put your money where your mouth is and begin your legal fight to keep it.

Or, a better idea is that everyone mind their own business. Perhaps some need to figure out if fighting a war from the wrong side of this same faith that could be very important to them in the very near future is worth an eternity of misery.
Personally, if someone told me that my deed restrictions stated that I could not have a little cross in my yard and it was proven to be so, then I would probably remove it until that restriction was changed. Restrictions are modified and changed every year. Colors of homes, screened porches, shutters, etc. are added to the approved list.
I would gladly sign any petition or support any civil suit that allowed small items such as crosses or lawn ornaments within good taste in folks' yards. I do not believe in absolutes when it comes to rules or laws. There are constant deviations from those rules and laws on a daily basis throughout the world. There is NO simple black and white on the matter. It is easy for a panel to determine what is in good taste, whether it is the consensus of the neighbors or the consensus of a panel appointed to decide. I know that it will eventually happen here in the Villages, and anyone that does not find that acceptable have the Constitutional right to exercise their freedoms to either accept the decision, challenge the decision, or move somewhere more to their fancy.

I am still amazed that there are those that find a simple little white cross to be offensive. And some are even offended by the mere presence of a cross on someone's neck. How those folks have survived this many years in health is beyond amazing. It proves one thing to me, and that is that some must be under a major conviction of the spirit if the mere presence or discussion of Christianity upsets them to such a degree.

I have no problem with those that are just adamant about any violations of the law or rules. I respect that. I also respect all persons' faith belief and have seen many instances of the gov and businesses catering to religious practices. I have seen states that allow Muslim women to wear burkas for their driver's license photos. I have seen areas set aside for daily prayer, etc. I do not believe that this great community wishes to be known as one of the sole concentration of communities that are against the free practice and display of the individual's faith. Just my opinion, but this vast development has always been known for it's fantastic charity and friendship. To be a bigot against people of faith is an ugly look and I hate to see The Villages get the stigma of that label.

Bigot is a harsh label to be sure, but if a person is intolerant of a group then he/she owns the label.

[Villagevip]

But, but I thought the little white crosses, marked the graves of their beloved little pets........

[giorgio1948]

Great first post..................Not.
I'm a Christian who signed and understood the restrictions when I moved in.
I don't need a white cross in my front yard.
Christ does not care if you have a cross in your front yard or not.

Spreading Christianity is a GOOD thing!:coolsmiley:

[Byte1]

Finally, a post that I can agree with and not criticize. Amazing! I won't even mention length in this case. It was a voice for moderation. Praise the great spirit of the good earth and harvest. Got to love the moderation. KUDOS!

Gracias.
I apologize for my lengthy posts. If I was as adept as you, I would be able to make my view coherent with a lot less verbiage.

You can call me "moderate" but please do not call me Liberal.....:icon_wink:

[Velvet]

But, but I thought the little white crosses, marked the graves of their beloved little pets........

Yikes, I hope then they were cremated. And why white crosses?
I just prefer to visit a cemetery to be reminded of death. Life is so short I like to think of it instead personally.

[Number 10 GI]

I read that the white cross originated in Wisconsin as a protest. Yes folks, the people who display those crosses are protestors! You know, like the people protesting police shootings of unarmed black men.

Source! Otherwise it's fairy tale.

[Byte1]

Yikes, I hope then they were cremated. And why white crosses?
I just prefer to visit a cemetery to be reminded of death. Life is so short I like to think of it instead personally.

The cross is not supposed to remind you of death. Rather it is supposed to remind you of the resurrection and eternal life. Just saying.

[Lgreen21]

Amen!

[Joe C.]

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!

People can be so touchy and sensitive. There are lots of things that I see and put up with that I truly find offensive. But I have thick skin and don't complain. Besides, IMHO, there are things that just annoy people and things that they don't like, but that doesn't make them offensive. They should understand the distinction. But man, do they act like a bunch of crybabies.
I think that most people here are intelligent, but they get caught up in all this crap and start acting like entitled, spoiled brats, and forget that they have dignity, class and should be above the fray.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You must have misunderstood what I said. Apologies. The post that you commented on referred to our country being founded on Judeo-Christian principles, or whatever the exact wording might have been. And when someone suggests that the Old Testament was skipped by Christians, it shows a lack of knowledge on the subject.

Well then you misread my post. I didn't say the Old Testament was "skipped" by Christians. I said Christianity bypassed the Old Testament. Nuances and semantics but once again - I choose my words for reasons.

[billyb1950]

The crosses violate the deed restrictions. Simple as that. If the people with them win the legal battle then I plan to put them up all along my property line to keep the dogs out. After all, if one is good, a hundred must be better!

...and they will likely win because it'll come under the First Amendment: free speech. Don't agree, but that's what I think will happen

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

[snip] To complain about something that gives a bit of joy and happiness to those that display them, seems to be nasty and hurtful in nature. To go out of your way to be deliberately hurtful to seniors attempting to find peace in their twilight years is (I was about to say UN-Christian) against our concept of how real Americans care for and support each other. [snip]
Granted, there are deed restrictions in certain areas of the Villages. Not where I live, so homes are pleasantly personalized with all kinds of items, including the crosses. I did not even notice the little crosses being displayed until I read about the controversy in the local newspaper. [snip]
Someone else mentioned "would you like to see Jewish, Wicken, Buddist and Muslim symbols in yards?" I wonder why that would offend anyone. I would simply marvel at how nice it is to live in America with the Freedom of speech and religion. Atheists are offended? Yes, of course. Perhaps they should be.


That was me, with the Jewish, Wiccan, etc. comment. Religious symbols as a collective, don't bother me all that much. But when the ONLY religious symbol displayed prominently in an entire neighborhood is white crosses, it makes me uncomfortable. It makes me feel like there's some kind of club that I'm excluded from. It makes me feel like the property owner is saying, "I'm special and you're not." It is exclusionary, not inclusionary.

But like you, I don't report it, because a) I don't think it's restricted in my neighborhood and b) as I said previously, we moved into this neighborhood because creative expression is allowed, not restricted, and I accept what I like with what I don't like.

As you said - it floats their boat, and it isn't "hurting" me in any way, so hey go for it. I'd probably appreciate them more if they'd give them some funky paint job, because that stark white amidst their colorful gardens isn't very fashionable. Maybe a tie-dye, or give it the same color as the flowers on their hibiscus tree, or something to coordinate with the landscaping.

[carolfry44]

Lawn ornaments/decorations/crosses are allowed on the historical side I was told.

[Velvet]

The cross is not supposed to remind you of death. Rather it is supposed to remind you of the resurrection and eternal life. Just saying.

For a pet? That is why I asked why a white cross to indicate a pet burial. Well maybe they have resurrection too.

[davem4616]

seems like a rather small issue to have worked so manty people up and generate 11 pages on TOTV....

just saying

[Velvet]

It’s a nice distraction from our Covid and protests topics. This is truly a Villages topic. There are absolutely no little white crosses on lawns that I have seen in my city up north.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Last year some friends from another state came to visit. They asked “what’s with all the white crosses?” I told them maybe where s pet is buried?? They thought it was a KKK cross! Just saying not everybody sees things the same way.


Lots around here. Does not bother me at all.

Now if it was larger and say lit up all night that would be another story.

[jammendolia]

A small white cross usually symbolizes a pet’s death

[jimjamuser]

The whole point of Christianity is that Jesus died for the sins of man. Jesus's "way" replaced that of the Old Testament. All the laws and rules and regulations and stipulations of the Old Testament were no longer necessary, and the NEW Way was the Way.

It eliminated the laws of Kosher. You no longer had to stone your son to death in the town square if your son disrespected his mother. You no longer had to reject pork. You no longer had to isolate yourself from civilization if you were menstruating. You were no longer required to cover your hair if you were a married woman.

All of these rules - were no longer valid. And all of those rules were rules of the Old Testament. The New Testament said, basically, "hey y'know all that stuff we said you had to do before? Fuggedaboudit."

Even the term itself - "Christianity" didn't exist until after Jesus was already dead. The New Testament essentially retcons the old Testament, says "yeah that old stuff is just fairy tales - read this instead. Pretend I'm Bill Maher and these are the NEW RULES."
I am certainly no religious expert and I am just asking for reference. But, do not some strict Muslims require head covering? And do not some religions reject pork?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I am certainly no religious expert and I am just asking for reference. But, do not some strict Muslims require head covering? And do not some religions reject pork?

Christianity began around six centuries before Islam. Islam begun somewhere around the 7th century. Judaism predates Christianity by around 2000 years. The Christian holy texts (the New Testament) basically said "everything Jews were told they had to do, and weren't allowed to do, is hereby forgiven as long as you accept that one of those Jews is now your god-king in heaven."

It was founded on the dismissal of Judaism, for all intents and purposes. Islam didn't come til much, much later.

[Velvet]

Some of us are so weak, myself included, that we need a lifeline in this Jewish god-king, to get over the threshold. Otherwise I’m pretty sure I probably would not make it.

[jimjamuser]

Christianity began around six centuries before Islam. Islam begun somewhere around the 7th century. Judaism predates Christianity by around 2000 years. The Christian holy texts (the New Testament) basically said "everything Jews were told they had to do, and weren't allowed to do, is hereby forgiven as long as you accept that one of those Jews is now your god-king in heaven."

It was founded on the dismissal of Judaism, for all intents and purposes. Islam didn't come til much, much later.
Thank you. I enjoyed processing that. That does give a nice overall timeline and perspective. Nice to have an expert historian on this forum. TV Land is full of many, many interesting and knowledgeable individuals. We are old and slow learners, but we TRY to learn new things. Sometimes even our stubborn, fixed ideas and prejudices can be made more flexible. keep up the good work.

[vagent711]

The deed restrictions are for lawn ornaments. The little white cross falls in that category. You can place a cross next to your front door under the eave as that is no longer considered a lawn ornament

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Thank you. I enjoyed processing that. That does give a nice overall timeline and perspective. Nice to have an expert historian on this forum. TV Land is full of many, many interesting and knowledgeable individuals. We are old and slow learners, but we TRY to learn new things. Sometimes even our stubborn, fixed ideas and prejudices can be made more flexible. keep up the good work.

I'm not an expert historian. But I enjoy studying comparative religion. I've read parts of the Quran, the old and new testaments, the Talmud, the book of Mormon, parts of the Bhagava-Ghita, and several other religious texts. Grew up Jewish with Orthodox grandparents in a Reform home, belonged to both the Jewish youth group and the Methodist youth group to hang out with a friend who was in it. Studied in college for my midterms at the Hare Krsna Society building because it was peaceful there and smelled nice, am an actual card-carrying member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and lived with Wiccans, Pagans, and other random religious folks throughout the years.

So I've had lots of opportunity to learn about religion and it became an interest.

[Klatu]

This is the age when some folks are rip roaring ready to take offense. White crosses are fine; I suspect the owners are good, decent people ready to express their faith in a non-threatening and sincere way. If others are bothered, well that is the way of living in community: some folks are different and toleration is a virtue.

[mamamia54]

I read that the white cross originated in Wisconsin as a protest. Yes folks, the people who display those crosses are protestors! You know, like the people protesting police shootings of unarmed black men.

What a crazy analogy.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I wonder if the people with white crosses would be so welcoming of there devil worshiping neighbors pentagram???

[njbchbum]

This is the age when some folks are rip roaring ready to take offense. White crosses are fine; I suspect the owners are good, decent people ready to express their faith in a non-threatening and sincere way. If others are bothered, well that is the way of living in community: some folks are different and toleration is a virtue.

You can "suspect the owners are good, decent people" all you want to...but unless they live in an area where lawn ornaments are permitted, they are owners who have no regard for following deed restrictions that they agreed to follow...and who knows what else! Following the rules is supposed to be "the way of living in community" - no?

[Marathon Man]

This is the age when some folks are rip roaring ready to take offense. White crosses are fine; I suspect the owners are good, decent people ready to express their faith in a non-threatening and sincere way. If others are bothered, well that is the way of living in community: some folks are different and toleration is a virtue.

Good, decent people follow the terms of a contract that they signed. Good, decent people don't do things that demand toleration.

[jimjamuser]

I'm not an expert historian. But I enjoy studying comparative religion. I've read parts of the Quran, the old and new testaments, the Talmud, the book of Mormon, parts of the Bhagava-Ghita, and several other religious texts. Grew up Jewish with Orthodox grandparents in a Reform home, belonged to both the Jewish youth group and the Methodist youth group to hang out with a friend who was in it. Studied in college for my midterms at the Hare Krsna Society building because it was peaceful there and smelled nice, am an actual card-carrying member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and lived with Wiccans, Pagans, and other random religious folks throughout the years.

So I've had lots of opportunity to learn about religion and it became an interest.
That was nice to share an interesting, unique life experience. My closest encounter with a different religion was a college lab partner from Iran who hated the Shaw of Iran. I never talked deep subjects with him. I did not have any real interest or curiosity about his religion or any religion, maybe I should have. All I knew about him was he once argued with a Catholic Priest about religion. He smoked good pot. He was a good lab partner.
........As to the Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I wonder if they serve salads at their service? Or just throw the spaghetti at each other. Anyway, it would make a GREAT title for a movie. You should write the screenplay. If Belushi were alive he could play the lead.

[Velvet]

I'm not an expert historian. But I enjoy studying comparative religion. I've read parts of the Quran, the old and new testaments, the Talmud, the book of Mormon, parts of the Bhagava-Ghita, and several other religious texts. Grew up Jewish with Orthodox grandparents in a Reform home, belonged to both the Jewish youth group and the Methodist youth group to hang out with a friend who was in it. Studied in college for my midterms at the Hare Krsna Society building because it was peaceful there and smelled nice, am an actual card-carrying member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and lived with Wiccans, Pagans, and other random religious folks throughout the years.

So I've had lots of opportunity to learn about religion and it became an interest.

And may I ask this, did you find what you were looking for?

I came from a scientific background and it was a very difficult journey because I don’t accept the idea of belief easily.

[Byte1]

That was me, with the Jewish, Wiccan, etc. comment. Religious symbols as a collective, don't bother me all that much. But when the ONLY religious symbol displayed prominently in an entire neighborhood is white crosses, it makes me uncomfortable. It makes me feel like there's some kind of club that I'm excluded from. It makes me feel like the property owner is saying, "I'm special and you're not." It is exclusionary, not inclusionary.

But like you, I don't report it, because a) I don't think it's restricted in my neighborhood and b) as I said previously, we moved into this neighborhood because creative expression is allowed, not restricted, and I accept what I like with what I don't like.

As you said - it floats their boat, and it isn't "hurting" me in any way, so hey go for it. I'd probably appreciate them more if they'd give them some funky paint job, because that stark white amidst their colorful gardens isn't very fashionable. Maybe a tie-dye, or give it the same color as the flowers on their hibiscus tree, or something to coordinate with the landscaping.

I like that idea about giving them "some funky paint job." I just do not see the cross as being exclusive, though. Guess I am just old fashioned and get the warm/welcome feeling when I see folks display them. They are so small that they appear subdued among all the landscaping. I've always been comfortable around older folks and now that I am one of them, I still enjoy how they help and comfort each other, as well as maintain their distance when folks wish their privacy. I consider the nosy and busybody folks on here that must interfere with others' happiness to be a minority and there is nothing that is going to change them. They are probably not welcome in their home community up North either.

[Byte1]

I have noticed all kinds of painted driveway designs that no one seems to take offense to. Perhaps a large cross painted onto the driveway would be accepted by all of these "well the rule is the rule" types.

There are a lot of hypocrites on here that espouse "rules are rules" that violate them in other ways every day. Of course, it's easier to just make excuses for their real fears by insisting that you are violating the rules when the real truth is that they are just plain offended that anyone can find happiness and peace by displaying a reminder to themselves and anyone that wishes to ask them why they are so contented. That little reminder gives them peace and happiness and shows folks that they can be welcome at their home. I'll bet there are plenty of visitors to the community that see those little crosses and know that there is a good chance that the neighborhood is friendly.

It does not matter a lot to me whether or not one places such a reminder in their yard. It does not bother me if some agitators wish to argue how it will lead to satanic symbols and star of David symbols. In my opinion, if the neighborhood does not like it they will let you know. There are always those that are being spiritually convicted that will be adamantly against anything that makes them uncomfortable. There will always be those around that wish to silence any view that is contrary to their own selfish banner.

On the other hand, I do not condone placing objects on a property that will obviously alienate your neighbors. To me, if I plan to live in a particular neighborhood, I want to become a good neighbor. I have seen how folks point at a passerby and say "he (or she) is a miserable person." I have never heard anyone mention that they were disturbed by a neighbor placing a small white cross, a Virgin Mary or even a Buddha statue in their landscaping. And folks, even good folks do gossip so it would get around if so.

I put my little lawn flags out on every national holiday to show my patriotism. I enjoy driving down my street and seeing hundreds of American flags lining the streets. Anything wrong with that? I enjoy driving around many neighborhoods during the holiday season to see the multitude of decorations and lights. I try to remember Jewish holidays so that I can pass on my wishes to my Jewish friends. They do not take offense when I give them a small Christmas gift. I honored or respected Ramadan when I was in the Middle East as well as other foreign holidays.

Tolerance is an interesting thing. You can mandate the inclusion or exclusion of tolerance but you cannot mandate one to condone an act or omission. What I mean is that you can legislate PC but you can not make someone condone or like-welcome a particular rule or law.
Live and let live. If a small white cross bothers you because one is breaking a rule, you are a justified stickler. If a small white cross bothers you because it "offends" you, then you should find out why it bothers you. If I say God Bless you, it is meant as a sincere prayer of peace and prosperity to you and not meant as a slight or condescension. God Bless you.

[EdFNJ]

Still waiting for the original poster of this thread to login again after dropping his clickbait. Obviously there was more to it than the post.

I have noticed all kinds of painted driveway designs that no one seems to take offense to. Perhaps a large cross painted onto the driveway would be accepted by all of these "well the rule is the rule" types.

Because the "cross issue" has nothing to do with anything other than deed restrictions prohibiting lawn ornaments, that would likely be a good and acceptable idea which, if permitted under DR's would be fine.

There are a lot of hypocrites on here that espouse "rules are rules" that violate them in other ways every day.

Very true, but so what? That doesn't change the fact that a "law is a law" and a "rule is a rule" and "CONTRACT is a contract." Lot's of hypocrites follow strict rules and flaunt others. Ask Jerry Jr. and about 50% of the politicians out there. They do what they can get away with then if caught they pay the price for breaking the law/rule/contract. That doesn't mean everyone can.