Obama supports building of NYC Mosque at Ground Zero

[Guest]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/13/obama-backs-mosque-near-ground-zero/
Headline:
"Obama Comes Out in Favor of Allowing Mosque Near Ground Zero"

His quote: ""This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."'

Another: "I believe the Muslims have the right to practice their religion"

Well, did he forget that the 3 pilots who were responsible for the deaths of so many people and the extremists who have since attempted to kill more AMERICANS were practicing their religion?

I have had it with this man! I am so aggrevated by him and his arrogance! No wonder he never chose a Washington DC church in which to worship! Now I'm too upset to sleep!!!!!!

[Guest]

The man is despicable, but we already knew that!!!:cus:

[Guest]

You're surprised at this, how???

[Guest]

You're surprised at this, how???

not so much surprised as i am downright angry! again - the will of the people be dammed! and again - he makes this country a laughing stock! now i am one of the birthers! i used to think they were dumb - now i'm not so sure of that!

[Guest]

generic...safe...freedom of religion....etc.
What he always leaves is the option for deniability.
Oh you mean those Muslims!!!!!!!!!!
You know the ones that most in their religion, that even if they are opposed will not come out and speak against what the (let's be fair here) "killer Muslims" do.

The issue is not the religion. It is what the intent is...it is about who the backers and supporters are...as Glenn Beck said if the background and roots and intents are squeaky clean then maybe. But still please, for the sake of the families and the memories of a nation....do it some where else.

As far as the group that is currently pushing the site issue....they are from from being religiously inspired or squeaky clean. The intents are suspicious and do need investigating.....which Obama as we all know and witness from actual positions he takes and the reverses/denies....does no investigating.

Classic ready....shoot....aim...ooops I'm sorry....decision maker...definitely NOT a leader.

btk

[Guest]

What is it going to take for the people to stand up and say "enough is enough"!?!

I don't care if it is legal or not to build that mosque, I don't care if it is politically correct to allow it, and I don't give a you know what if muslims are offended.

That mosque should NOT be built and it's about time that the muslims themselves, if they are truly peace loving, stand up to their extreme members and say NO!!

For God's sake, just who was it that murdered all of those innocent people in the towers???

[Guest]

Remember all those bumper stickers, "We will not forget?"

[Guest]

According to an AOL poll I just read a whopping 88 percent who responded are against his stance.

Karen, you are right. It is time that the Muslims themselves stand up and say NO to the extreme members. What frightens me is what percentage now in the U.S. are extreme members?

[Guest]

This will be the final nail in the 2012 re-election coffin. He now has alienated all but the extreme progressive far left. Watch now as those Dems up for re-election in 2010 start to distance themselves from Obama. Who advises this man?

[Guest]

The Obama Regime is out of touch with the American people and arrogant in the belief that it is on some kind of "manifest destiny" quest to re-invent America in spite of the will of the people. Hopefully the time is near at hand for, at least, the beginning of the end of this obscenity of an administration.

[Guest]

We have been in Iraq and Afghanistan trying to weed out the extremists and stablize both of these countries whose citizens are for the most part both predominately followers of the Islamic faith.

But, putting a mosque near the 9/11 ruins is like throwing gasoline on a fire of religious intolerance and bigotry.

I cannot see how this is a good idea at this time when emotions are still so strong even if it has been almost a decade.

There is a strong argument to be made for putting the mosque near the 9/11 World Trade Center site, but the argument is purely based on reason and seems detached from the heart. It is a good idea in terms of symbolism and bringing the faiths together but it is just that. It is just an idea.

[Guest]

I don't understand why he commented at all, about the Mosque. Robert Gibbs said it was a local issue and Obama wouldn't comment. That was a perfect out. It seems like he is purposely trying to offend people. I would think his "handlers," think Soros, would give him better advice. This gains him nothing. It only draws more attention to his Muslim background.

[Guest]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41069.html

[Guest]

[QUOTE=njbchbum;283679Well, did he forget that the 3 pilots who were responsible for the deaths of so many people and the extremists who have since attempted to kill more AMERICANS were practicing their religion?
[/QUOTE]

Those pilots are dead.

There are still Catholic priests walking the streets who raped children.

Where is your outrage?

The double-standard here is truly scary.

When some lunatics show up at Tea Party rallies, you're quick to say "they are NOT us!". But when it's someone else you don't like, you don't give a damn. And you wonder why Americans get a negative image abroad?

[Guest]

response in-line


Those pilots are dead.
...[referring to the extremists who took over the planes, dolt]yes, as a result of practicing their religion; and they took thousands of others down with themselves.

There are still Catholic priests walking the streets who raped children.
...then they aren't islamic and are not part of this thread - even for comparison.

Where is your outrage?
...in a thread about catholic priests raping children.

The double-standard here is truly scary.
...sorry, can't agree there.

When some lunatics show up at Tea Party rallies, you're quick to say "they are NOT us!".
...do NOT put words into MY mouth nor type words in my posts, dplong! you don't know ONE bloody thing about me! define lunatic.

But when it's someone else you don't like, you don't give a damn.
...i DO give a damn! and that is why i am so angered by this president who does not give a damn about the greatness of america and americans!

And you wonder why Americans get a negative image abroad?
...why should i give a hoot about what they think about americans? what have those abroad done for us lately besides a few of them backing us up in these kockamamie wars no one will get us out of? from what i read about what they think of americans, they're laughing their butts off because of the bad joke we have attempting to govern us.


dplong -
do not EVER generalize me or my posts into something you think i do or do not stand for. call me on a post, but don't ever tell me or others who don't know me what i think or how i feel.

[Guest]

What do Roman Catholic priests have to do with the misplaced mosque in NY? How in the world is that indicative of a double standard?
You're making your case based on negative assumptions about the poster. It's highly doubtful that you have the slightest idea about the outrage NJbchbum feels about abuse of any child.
How about the outrage those of us close to the area feel about this mosque? I was there when the towers were bombed in 1993. I wake up and night and still smell the stink of that smoke. I feel the burning in my lungs. When the towers came down 9/11/2001 I had friends and neighbors who never came home. In our area virtually everyone knows someone who died on that day and I resent your pious lecture.
No way, no how should that mosque be built 2 blocks from the WTC site. There is still an incredible amount of pain associated with that cowardly act. I can still see the smoke billowing from the site, I can see the people leaping to their deaths. I remember all too well the endless funerals.
This not an issue of freedom of religion, this an issue of tremendous insensitivity from those trying to build this Muslim Center.
How about if the Muslim community shows some outrage? I have yet to hear a Muslim doing anything but support this insulting display of disrespect. If they're truly interested in building bridges, as they frequently claim, they should insist that the mosque be built elsewhere.

[Guest]

Those pilots are dead.

There are still Catholic priests walking the streets who raped children.

Where is your outrage?

The double-standard here is truly scary.

When some lunatics show up at Tea Party rallies, you're quick to say "they are NOT us!". But when it's someone else you don't like, you don't give a damn. And you wonder why Americans get a negative image abroad?

One big difference is the men who flew into the towers are martyrs to their religion and no leading Iman has come out and denounced the attack in their native language to a islamic audience.

The Pope himself and every Bishop has deplored the abuse of children and is making attempts at correcting the problem.

Now can you stop the despicable anti-Catholic ranting and the lame attempts to justify a religion that praises violence against non-believers and refuses to denounce it in any form in their native language.

[Guest]

One big difference is the men who flew into the towers are martyrs to their religion and no leading Iman has come out and denounced the attack in their native language to a islamic audience.

The Pope himself and every Bishop has deplored the abuse of children and is making attempts at correcting the problem.

Now can you stop the despicable anti-Catholic ranting and the lame attempts to justify a religion that praises violence against non-believers and refuses to denounce it in any form in their native language.

What we need to stop is responding to the trouble maker diplong.

I certainly have. The guy only wants to stir things up by taking the side of the bad guys and being negative about everything American.

Now watch him come back and talk about how much he loves America so he can suck you all back in.

[Guest]

Did I misread Tal, or did he just call those of us who oppose the mosque religious intolerant bigots? I hope I misread it, but that term seems to be one of the lefts talking points of late.

Tal, I don't think you know me or my religious beliefs.

And they say the conservatives are mean spirited name callers!

[Guest]

Did I misread Tal, or did he just call those of us who oppose the mosque religious intolerant bigots? I hope I misread it, but that term seems to be one of the lefts talking points of late.

Tal, I don't think you know me or my religious beliefs.

And they say the conservatives are mean spirited name callers!

No, I meant that building a mosque near the 9/11 ruins feeds people's emotional re-actions. I did not point out such and such poster on TOTV or whereever.

I will quote myself-- "But, putting a mosque near the 9/11 ruins is like throwing gasoline on a fire of religious intolerance and bigotry."

[Guest]

No, I meant that building a mosque near the 9/11 ruins feeds people's emotional re-actions. I did not point out such and such poster on TOTV or whereever.

I will quote myself-- "But, putting a mosque near the 9/11 ruins is like throwing gasoline on a fire of religious intolerance and bigotry."

I have trouble with this statement. too. Most Americans have a very high tolerance for individual beliefs. What most Americans will not tolerate is a gloating monument to the death of thousands of USA citizens.

[Guest]

I have trouble with this statement. too. Most Americans have a very high tolerance for individual beliefs. What most Americans will not tolerate is a gloating monument to the death of thousands of USA citizens.

How is a mosque a "gloating monument to the death of thousands of USA citizens"?

This is also supposedly a cultural center for what sounds like very non-violent followers of Islam??

[Guest]

Islam is a religion based heavily on symbolism. I do not believe it is the intention to bridge the divide, rather, I believe it to be a deliberate attempt to enshrine the murdering terrorists that killed innocent Americans on 9/11.

[Guest]

Islam is a religion based heavily on symbolism. I do not believe it is the intention to bridge the divide, rather, I believe it to be a deliberate attempt to enshrine the murdering terrorists that killed innocent Americans on 9/11.

...but they are more than likely hiding in caves somewhere in Pakistan, setting bombs in Iraq or Afghanistan, or planning someway to derail any kind of detente between Christians and followers of Islam.

My fear is that this mosque will become a target of terrorists just as the World Trade Center was for decades. The terrorist though could be those from a US militia or other extremist group as well as extremists carrying out some kind of jihad.

[Guest]

says it all. (almost)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkMolLriAkQ&feature=player_embedded

[Guest]

How is a mosque a "gloating monument to the death of thousands of USA citizens"?

This is also supposedly a cultural center for what sounds like very non-violent followers of Islam??

Tal -
take a look at the article here: http://www.urbanelephants.com/index.php/component/content/article/64/2700.html

it gives a fair explanation of the intent to name this project 'the cordoba initiative'...bottom line - it will be a shining monument to the death of thousands [americans and others] and a symbol of the islamic intent to invade and rule those they deem infidels...us! the cultural part of this a scam to make us believe they want peace and understanding. if they really want that, they can take their mosque and bulid it somewhere else. they can show some respect to the feelings of americans...not try to change those feelings.

[Guest]

Tal -
take a look at the article here: http://www.urbanelephants.com/index.php/component/content/article/64/2700.html

it gives a fair explanation of the intent to name this project 'the cordoba initiative'...bottom line - it will be a shining monument to the death of thousands [americans and others] and a symbol of the islamic intent to invade and rule those they deem infidels...us! the cultural part of this a scam to make us believe they want peace and understanding. if they really want that, they can take their mosque and bulid it somewhere else. they can show some respect to the feelings of americans...not try to change those feelings.

I looked at that article. Looks to be quite skewed.

Here is another explanation with some other information--

"The sponsors of Cordoba House said the name was meant to invoke 8th–11th century Córdoba, Spain, a time and a place where Muslims, Christians, and Jews co-existed peacefully.[20] Nevertheless, the project's name raised issues for former U.S. Representative and Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (GA-6), who claimed that it was a "a deliberately insulting term" on the grounds that Córdoba was the capital of the Caliphate of Córdoba during the period of Muslim rule in Spain, following the Umayyad defeat of the Visigoths in the 8th century.[45][16] Subsequently, its investors renamed the project "Park51," after the location's address at 51 Park Place.[62][63]"

This is from the Wikipedia article on the Cordoba House.

[Guest]

I looked at that article. Looks to be quite skewed.

Here is another explanation with some other information--

"The sponsors of Cordoba House said the name was meant to invoke 8th–11th century Córdoba, Spain, a time and a place where Muslims, Christians, and Jews co-existed peacefully.[20] Nevertheless, the project's name raised issues for former U.S. Representative and Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (GA-6), who claimed that it was a "a deliberately insulting term" on the grounds that Córdoba was the capital of the Caliphate of Córdoba during the period of Muslim rule in Spain, following the Umayyad defeat of the Visigoths in the 8th century.[45][16] Subsequently, its investors renamed the project "Park51," after the location's address at 51 Park Place.[62][63]"

This is from the Wikipedia article on the Cordoba House.

i guess it's just a difference of opinion, tal...the sponsors view of history vs other views of that same history; i apparently take a much more cynical approach to this particular item; maybe because i live too close to the matter. the name change to me just piles on more patronization by the sponsors. i feel they think we are as dumb and sheep-like as obama does.

[Guest]

for the Muslim "slap in the face" monument.

The Muslim population in the Manhattan area is among the smallest of the overall.

The largest percent of Muslims are in Brooklyn....they will have to drive many miles in heavy traffic o get there passing several other mosques on the way.

So why is this one so special othe than the Muslim power brkers playing on the USA apathy.

It ain't right no matter how one cuts it. Maybe the unions....you know....the true grit of America will balk at building it if it gets that far. OOOps forgot they are on the Obama payola list so it does not matter if it is right or not to them.

If this gets built it will be the epitome' of American permissive pacifism and the real root sponsors of the site will laugh at us with the rest of the world.

America is slowly but surely losing it's sense of right or wrong.

How about a Japanese shrine at the site of the Arizona ship in Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese pilots who gave their lives to promote the ire of Japan......barfbarf!!!!!!!!!!!

Get real America.......

btk

[Guest]

for the Muslim "slap in the face" monument.

The Muslim population in the Manhattan area is among the smallest of the overall.

The largest percent of Muslims are in Brooklyn....they will have to drive many miles in heavy traffic o get there passing several other mosques on the way.

So why is this one so special othe than the Muslim power brkers playing on the USA apathy.

It ain't right no matter how one cuts it. Maybe the unions....you know....the true grit of America will balk at building it if it gets that far. OOOps forgot they are on the Obama payola list so it does not matter if it is right or not to them.

If this gets built it will be the epitome' of American permissive pacifism and the real root sponsors of the site will laugh at us with the rest of the world.

America is slowly but surely losing it's sense of right or wrong.

How about a Japanese shrine at the site of the Arizona ship in Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese pilots who gave their lives to promote the ire of Japan......barfbarf!!!!!!!!!!!

Get real America.......

btk

Ditto. And ditto to cashman.

Now we've found out the group fighting to build the mosque/cultural center doesn't even own all of the property.

I'm going to say this to everyone screaming about tolerance, double standards, fairness of comparison, the Catholic church and the evil Christian religion.

Let this kind tolerant, different breed of Islam build this mosque/cultural center and by the grace of Allah and all tolerance in the world and the after world to come, let the first gay couple come forward and be married in this hallowed place of building bridges. Let a gay couple already married come forward in this building of great example to us all have their California wedding vows be renewed in this glorious place as an example to all double standard Americans.

[Guest]

Ok, for what must be the dozenth time.

The problem I have is with the double standard.

It's ok for the moderate, reasonable MAJORITY of churches to continue their operation despite the actions of a few.

Somehow this doesn't count when it comes to New York.

If you ever read the testimony of some of the victims of the pedophile priests, they also said they were doing God's work and that 'servicing' them (the priests) was a good thing. They perverted their religion for their own selfish desires, raping children in the process.

This is exactly what 19 hijackers did on 9/11 but with more immediately shocking results. Yes, over 2800 people died. My cousin barely escaped with his life. There are, by some estimates, hundreds of thousands of kids today living with the knowledge that their rapists are free to walk the streets, protected by the Church.

We set the rules in this country stating that we would not favor one religion over another. It's easy to go along with the popular view. The hard part is defending the rights of people with whom you may not agree.


The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of we;;meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupts hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity.

-- James Madison, 1821


...and for the record, there are Japanese Buddhist and Shinto shrines in Hawaii, some rather close to Pearl Harbor (though, I grant you, not as close as the proposed islamic center is to the WTC site). And they were there before 1945 (was reading about one that had been founded in 1920 while researching to see what Japanese shrines might be in and around Honolulu)

[Guest]

Ok, for what must be the dozenth time.

The problem I have is with the double standard.

It's ok for the moderate, reasonable MAJORITY of churches to continue their operation despite the actions of a few.

Somehow this doesn't count when it comes to New York.

If you ever read the testimony of some of the victims of the pedophile priests, they also said they were doing God's work and that 'servicing' them (the priests) was a good thing. They perverted their religion for their own selfish desires, raping children in the process.

This is exactly what 19 hijackers did on 9/11 but with more immediately shocking results. Yes, over 2800 people died. My cousin barely escaped with his life. There are, by some estimates, hundreds of thousands of kids today living with the knowledge that their rapists are free to walk the streets, protected by the Church.

We set the rules in this country stating that we would not favor one religion over another. It's easy to go along with the popular view. The hard part is defending the rights of people with whom you may not agree.



...and for the record, there are Japanese Buddhist and Shinto shrines in Hawaii, some rather close to Pearl Harbor (though, I grant you, not as close as the proposed islamic center is to the WTC site). And they were there before 1945 (was reading about one that had been founded in 1920 while researching to see what Japanese shrines might be in and around Honolulu)

Your hatred of Catholics is duly noted. Fail to see the relation to thread title.

[Guest]

why is there no discussion about WHO is the "protagonist" in the fable? Who is backing the mosque? Where is the money coming from? Why is it named what it is? Why is it in a location where the majority of the Muslim population is not?

And oh by the way, why is it that ALL polls, any taken sum to over 88% of Americans are against it? I don't believe it has to do with one's religious beliefs. It has to do with the symbolism it conveys....right or wrong. Just like the symbolism of the twin towers sitting there smoking before they fall.

To me anybody in support of the mosque is on the wrong side of the issue that bothers most Americans....plain and simple.

btk

PS And Obama made a huge tactical error by shooting his mouth off in support of the mosque. Another personal prejudice and belief of his reflected in his without thinking utterances. And it is no accident what it reflects about him.

[Guest]

Bill: And Obama just made another mistake in backing off. Now people can add 'wishy-washy' to the list of problems they have with him on this topic. With few exceptions, even noted Bush critic Bill Maher noted that Bush & Company knew how to stay on target with a message.

Pats: Check my other post. I 'hate' criminals. Some happen to be Catholics. I'm using an example of criminal behavior on the part of a minority of Catholics to point out a double-standard. You choose to interpret that as me hating all Catholics (in which case I'd have to hate my own family) no matter how much I try to explain it.