A word of caution to future residents

[npwalters]

So you are planning to buy a house in The Villages. Great! There are literally 10s of thousands of people here living the dream. We hope to keep it that way.

Please note this word of caution from a current resident. The Villages sales force mantra is “you are not buying a house, you are buying a lifestyle”. The lifestyle is rapidly changing – for the worse in the opinion of many.

You will probably consider paying a premium to have your single family home on a golf course and/or near a “country club”. Learn from the developers recent actions and decide if that is worth the risk. Here are a few facts.

There are several country clubs in the northern third of The Villages. These were built in the 80s and 90s and belong to the developer. Many people paid a premium to locate near them fully expecting to have access to a CC pool, tennis courts, a nice restaurant, a 18 or 27 hole course – you know, the things one normally associates with a country club. Two country clubs are now either non-existent or just a CC in name only (TDS in my opinion); Tierra Del Sol and Hacienda Hills. IT GETS WORSE.

The developer demolished Hacienda Hills CC and now states they plan to put an apartment complex on the site. Yes, an apartment complex in the middle of single family homes. To do this they had to get approval to offer amenities to the future apartment residents. A meeting was held to hear the current residents and the OVERWHELMING OPINION was a loud and clear NO. The Amenity authority (after meeting one on one with the developer) voted to ignore the residents and give approximately 280 amenities to the developer. There is much more to that story but this is already long. Read any post on Hacienda Hills on this blog.

Look at Hacienda Hills Country Club on Google Earth to get an idea of the area. The developer owns all the country clubs. Ask your real estate agent if the CC near your home is guaranteed to be there in 5 years.

Bottom line –do your diligence. We all hope the developer shows some respect to the current residents and reverses course. It is the right thing to do.

[oldtimes]

So you are planning to buy a house in The Villages. Great! There are literally 10s of thousands of people here living the dream. We hope to keep it that way.

Please note this word of caution from a current resident. The Villages sales force mantra is “you are not buying a house, you are buying a lifestyle”. The lifestyle is rapidly changing – for the worse in the opinion of many.

You will probably consider paying a premium to have your single family home on a golf course and/or near a “country club”. Learn from the developers recent actions and decide if that is worth the risk. Here are a few facts.

There are several country clubs in the northern third of The Villages. These were built in the 80s and 90s and belong to the developer. Many people paid a premium to locate near them fully expecting to have access to a CC pool, tennis courts, a nice restaurant, a 18 or 27 hole course – you know, the things one normally associates with a country club. Two country clubs are now either non-existent or just a CC in name only (TDS in my opinion); Tierra Del Sol and Hacienda Hills. IT GETS WORSE.

The developer demolished Hacienda Hills CC and now states they plan to put an apartment complex on the site. Yes, an apartment complex in the middle of single family homes. To do this they had to get approval to offer amenities to the future apartment residents. A meeting was held to hear the current residents and the OVERWHELMING OPINION was a loud and clear NO. The Amenity authority (after meeting one on one with the developer) voted to ignore the residents and give approximately 280 amenities to the developer. There is much more to that story but this is already long. Read any post on Hacienda Hills on this blog.

Look at Hacienda Hills Country Club on Google Earth to get an idea of the area. The developer owns all the country clubs. Ask your real estate agent if the CC near your home is guaranteed to be there in 5 years.

Bottom line –do your diligence. We all hope the developer shows some respect to the current residents and reverses course. It is the right thing to do.

This is your opinion. My opinion is that it is much ado about nothing. I know some who have been here for a very long time just cannot accept that time marches on and things evolve.

[sail33or]

Apartments are a bad concept at this location. If the CC was not profitable then maybe use the space for a park or something like EDNA's on the Green. Or I am sure there are numerous other ideas. Maybe the Developer would accept another specific amenity fee to not put apartments since they must make money.

[Polar Bear]

...time marches on and things evolve.
Yep.

[npwalters]

This is your opinion. My opinion is that it is much ado about nothing. I know some who have been here for a very long time just cannot accept that time marches on and things evolve.

There are 2 sentences in the entire post that is my opinion. The remainder is just facts.

[oldtimes]

There are 2 sentences in the entire post that is my opinion. The remainder is just facts.

But the fact is that it matters to you but not to me. Not saying it's not true I am saying I don't see it as a big issue.

[rhood]

Why is the developer getting the amenity fees and not the district?

[vintageogauge]

First, country club golf course lots are relatively few and there is no new building going on up there so whomever you are directing this to please don't be too concerned as there are thousands of homes both new and re-sales that are available with executive course lots or water lots or nature lots or interior lots, The Villages sales force sold 196 re-sale homes in July and will most likely be the same for August, new homes are selling just as well. Second, to the OP, take a look at the loft apartments, if the new apartments are anything like them it will be a great addition to the area. With 10,000 boomers retiring every day there will be no end to the growth here in The Villages, come on down before the prices get too high.

[JoMar]

There are 2 sentences in the entire post that is my opinion. The remainder is just facts.

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.

[npwalters]

First, country club golf course lots are relatively few and there is no new building going on up there so whomever you are directing this to please don't be too concerned as there are thousands of homes both new and re-sales that are available with executive course lots or water lots or nature lots or interior lots, The Villages sales force sold 196 re-sale homes in July and will most likely be the same for August, new homes are selling just as well. Second, to the OP, take a look at the loft apartments, if the new apartments are anything like them it will be a great addition to the area. With 10,000 boomers retiring every day there will be no end to the growth here in The Villages, come on down before the prices get too high.

The loft apartments are located on the edge of Brownwood Town Square and not near any single family homes. You miss the point.

[npwalters]

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.

My facts are correct.

[John41]

But the fact is that it matters to you but not to me. Not saying it's not true I am saying I don't see it as a big issue.

He’s advising prospective buyers and doing a service for someone who is not familiar with the problems with the developer.

[EdFNJ]

Something about a large building sticking up 40 or 50 feet or whatever height it is in the midst of a single family home development just doesn't seem to fit in with the look and feel of the community as a whole which was the main reason for having Deed Restrictions, to keep everything homogenic. Brownwood apartments are on the outskirts and Katie Belle if it happens is in an existing building. I don't care much because it's NIMBY but it just seems so out of place smack in the middle. Nothing against apartments but it's just where they stick 'em. I am sure if they tore down the Mallory CC and stuck apartments there, I too would be annoyed.

[John41]

This is your opinion. My opinion is that it is much ado about nothing. I know some who have been here for a very long time just cannot accept that time marches on and things evolve.

maybe not for the better.. if I were buying I would be happy for his information.. apparently enough residents were unhappy the last election to unseat the developers puppet commissioners by a wide margin.

[npwalters]

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.
Definitely not my experience

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.
TDS does not have a pool. The pool is part of the Tierra Del Sol Recreation Center and is a “neighborhood “ pool.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.
Have you ever been to Palmer, Lopez, or any others? Read the description of the country clubs given in TV sales literature.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.
The residents were not uninformed. The residents are the lifeblood of the developers business.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.
I did not post any facts other than what was stated by the amenity authority at the public meeting. Did you attend?

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.
My facts are checked.

[vintageogauge]

The loft apartments are located on the edge of Brownwood Town Square and not near any single family homes. You miss the point.

I didn't miss the point, they will look much nicer than what was there before and you will have use of their amenities just as you do at the lofts.

[Michread]

Thank you. I wouldn’t want to buy a home and then have a high rise going up near my new home. I would be angry if no one had told me.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Something about a large building sticking up 40 or 50 feet or whatever height it is in the midst of a single family home development just doesn't seem to fit in with the look and feel of the community as a whole which was the main reason for having Deed Restrictions, to keep everything homogenic. Brownwood apartments are on the outskirts and Katie Belle if it happens is in an existing building. I don't care much because it's NIMBY but it just seems so out of place smack in the middle. Nothing against apartments but it's just where they stick 'em. I am sure if they tore down the Mallory CC and stuck apartments there, I too would be annoyed.

It definitely sets a dangerous precedent. If they can build a multi-story, multi-unit building on a property that had previously been designated a non-residential property, then there's no reason why someone can't raze their courtyard villa and build a 2-story 2-unit townhouse on theirs.

[jimbomaybe]

maybe not for the better.. if I were buying I would be happy for his information.. apparently enough residents were unhappy the last election to unseat the developers puppet commissioners by a wide margin.

The interest of the developer is always going to be different that the home owner, I have not as yet bought a home, this recent development regarding apartments /condos is another thing to consider. A wake up call for home owners,perhaps the developer should have been a little more concerned about the reaction they have caused, the voter could elect people who can tell the developer what they can and what they cannot do, perhaps a building code that would limit two story structures, code restrictions that would only allow single family homes, the ballot box is very powerful

[tophcfa]

I didn't miss the point, they will look much nicer than what was there before and you will have use of their amenities just as you do at the lofts.

???????????????

[tophcfa]

I can not understand why the OP is getting grief for stating facts and attempting to help future Villagers make an informed decision? Is that not why most people read TOV, to learn useful information from fellow Villagers? Lighten up on the OP, I totally agree with him/her.

[graciegirl]

I can not understand why the OP is getting grief for stating facts and attempting to help future Villagers make an informed decision? Is that not why most people read TOV, to learn useful information from fellow Villagers? Lighten up on the OP, I totally agree with him/her.

If you wait and see, you will then know that the apartments will be built and then will be absorbed flawlessly. They will not be inhabited by down at the heels people, but very quiet ones who seek a smaller place as they age. Many will have golf carts only.

Every time there is something, anything, that some people can find to leap on the developer they do, and year after year, nothing awful has happened. The flowers still get changed out, the miles of bushes get trimmed, there isn't any debris or junk in the roadways, the areas south of 466 controlled by the developer get painted and repaired and everything is fine.

Every couple of years some wanna be hot shot raises his/her voice and decides he/she wants to run things and get things all set up to be run like an Orlando or a Jacksonville or a Deland. They don't like CDD's. Too much like successful private enterprise for them. Too quiet, not much crime. Things get done. No big mouths at the helms of ANYTHING running their mouths and making promises.

And we get this kind of rhetoric and then things work out JUST FINE and they have to look for another fish to fry.

[JoMar]

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.
Definitely not my experience

Which one, that people buy for the view or that the CC pools are empty

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.
TDS does not have a pool. The pool is part of the Tierra Del Sol Recreation Center and is a “neighborhood “ pool.
So your point is what? TDS never had a pool?

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.
Have you ever been to Palmer, Lopez, or any others? Read the description of the country clubs given in TV sales literature.
All the time, The restaurants are privately owned and have nothing to do with the golf operation. The literature makes no promise of continuation, only that it is there and can be enjoyed by everyone...which it can.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.
The residents were not uninformed. The residents are the lifeblood of the developers business.
They were, still are and will be. And many were and are still uninformed since none of the plans have been shown but there are a lot of experts that know it all, right?

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.
I did not post any facts other than what was stated by the amenity authority at the public meeting. Did you attend?
I was....and as I remember there was no discussion on the origin and distribution of the fees.

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.
My facts are checked.
Your facts are your facts and that's ok

[EdFNJ]

If you wait and see, you will then know that the apartments will be built and then will be absorbed flawlessly. They will not be inhabited by down at the heels people, but very quiet ones who seek a smaller place as they age. Many will have golf carts only.

Every time there is something, anything, that some people can find to leap on the developer they do, and year after year, nothing awful has happened. The flowers still get changed out, the miles of bushes get trimmed, there isn't any debris or junk in the roadways, the areas south of 466 controlled by the developer get painted and repaired and everything is fine.

Every couple of years some wanna be hot shot raises his/her voice and decides he/she wants to run things and get things all set up to be run like an Orlando or a Jacksonville or a Deland. They don't like CDD's. Too much like successful private enterprise for them. Too quiet, not much crime. Things get done. No big mouths at the helms of ANYTHING running their mouths and making promises.

And we get this kind of rhetoric and then things work out JUST FINE and they have to look for another fish to fry. I am sure it will be done tastefully, beautifully and 100% up to "Villages standards" and the people will be just mahhhvelous dahling ..... just wouldn't want a multi-story building planted in the middle of my single family neighborhood no matter how many pretty flowers are planted around it and I certainly wouldn't buy a home in it's immediate vicinity. "The Developers" are free to do as they please .... doesn't mean everyone has to admire them for it.

[Northwoods]

So you are planning to buy a house in The Villages. Great! There are literally 10s of thousands of people here living the dream. We hope to keep it that way.

Please note this word of caution from a current resident. The Villages sales force mantra is “you are not buying a house, you are buying a lifestyle”. The lifestyle is rapidly changing – for the worse in the opinion of many.

You will probably consider paying a premium to have your single family home on a golf course and/or near a “country club”. Learn from the developers recent actions and decide if that is worth the risk. Here are a few facts.

There are several country clubs in the northern third of The Villages. These were built in the 80s and 90s and belong to the developer. Many people paid a premium to locate near them fully expecting to have access to a CC pool, tennis courts, a nice restaurant, a 18 or 27 hole course – you know, the things one normally associates with a country club. Two country clubs are now either non-existent or just a CC in name only (TDS in my opinion); Tierra Del Sol and Hacienda Hills. IT GETS WORSE.

The developer demolished Hacienda Hills CC and now states they plan to put an apartment complex on the site. Yes, an apartment complex in the middle of single family homes. To do this they had to get approval to offer amenities to the future apartment residents. A meeting was held to hear the current residents and the OVERWHELMING OPINION was a loud and clear NO. The Amenity authority (after meeting one on one with the developer) voted to ignore the residents and give approximately 280 amenities to the developer. There is much more to that story but this is already long. Read any post on Hacienda Hills on this blog.

Look at Hacienda Hills Country Club on Google Earth to get an idea of the area. The developer owns all the country clubs. Ask your real estate agent if the CC near your home is guaranteed to be there in 5 years.

Bottom line –do your diligence. We all hope the developer shows some respect to the current residents and reverses course. It is the right thing to do.

I hope you sell your home before the exodus of people escaping The Villages.

I will say to new buyers -- there are people who have a negative outlook of everything happening in The Villages. I guess every community has them.
As a new buyer. you have to decide what is right for you.
I will say there are so many people who are living the dream. We love it here. We have no desire to leave. The Developer built apartments in Brownwood and they are very tasteful.
There are people who live here who no longer want to maintain a home, so apartments are a wonderful option for them. The Developer is planning to put apartments on a site that had a failed restaurant. No one, NO ONE knows what that development looks like. Yet people want to disparage The Developer. There is a chance that it will be a beautiful, very tasteful addition. One that residents will also enjoy. No one knows.

You can listen to the negative people that have NO CLUE what the Developer has in mind for this plot of land. Or you can look at a wonderful retirement community that so many residents love.

[tophcfa]

I am sure it will be done tastefully, beautifully and 100% up to "Villages standards" and the people will be just mahhhvelous dahling ..... just wouldn't want a multi-story building planted in the middle of my single family neighborhood no matter how many pretty flowers are planted around it and I certainly wouldn't buy a home in it's immediate vicinity. "The Developers" are free to do as they please .... doesn't mean everyone has to admire them for it.

Apparently, when you live in one of the Bridgeport Villages, where you are seemingly safe that there will never be a high density rental apartment complex built in your back yard, it is easy to criticize those that don't have that luxury, and are not happy their neighborhood is rapidly going downhill! Go figure?

[Velvet]

Sounds like there will be an increase in density of population in that area. More income per square footage of land.

[JimJohnson]

I am an avid golfer and have lived hear over 10 years. That said I think the country clubs are a waste of time. They have poor quality food and without heavy drinkers, would not be profitable at all. I am a drinker, but not in country clubs. Most CC ‘s have the same sad faces bellied up to the bar when I tee off and still their when I finish. When we want a drink or three, we much prefer the squares or one of the many watering holes that have music and smiling faces. We also find enjoyment in the vast amount of golf cart access to shopping, medical facilities and recreational facilities.

[Windguy]

The loft apartments are located on the edge of Brownwood Town Square and not near any single family homes. You miss the point.

I’m sorry, but I thought you were warning prospective residents that this might happen to them if they buy here. I believe this is an issue only in the northern area. The CCs in the rest of TV are surrounded by green space—not homes. For the vast majority of residents, this is a non issue.

[Travelhunter]

So you are planning to buy a house in The Villages. Great! There are literally 10s of thousands of people here living the dream. We hope to keep it that way.

Please note this word of caution from a current resident. The Villages sales force mantra is “you are not buying a house, you are buying a lifestyle”. The lifestyle is rapidly changing – for the worse in the opinion of many.

You will probably consider paying a premium to have your single family home on a golf course and/or near a “country club”. Learn from the developers recent actions and decide if that is worth the risk. Here are a few facts.

There are several country clubs in the northern third of The Villages. These were built in the 80s and 90s and belong to the developer. Many people paid a premium to locate near them fully expecting to have access to a CC pool, tennis courts, a nice restaurant, a 18 or 27 hole course – you know, the things one normally associates with a country club. Two country clubs are now either non-existent or just a CC in name only (TDS in my opinion); Tierra Del Sol and Hacienda Hills. IT GETS WORSE.

The developer demolished Hacienda Hills CC and now states they plan to put an apartment complex on the site. Yes, an apartment complex in the middle of single family homes. To do this they had to get approval to offer amenities to the future apartment residents. A meeting was held to hear the current residents and the OVERWHELMING OPINION was a loud and clear NO. The Amenity authority (after meeting one on one with the developer) voted to ignore the residents and give approximately 280 amenities to the developer. There is much more to that story but this is already long. Read any post on Hacienda Hills on this blog.

Look at Hacienda Hills Country Club on Google Earth to get an idea of the area. The developer owns all the country clubs. Ask your real estate agent if the CC near your home is guaranteed to be there in 5 years.

Bottom line –do your diligence. We all hope the developer shows some respect to the current residents and reverses course. It is the right thing to do.

Well said
Something to think about for my next house

[jacksonbrown]

It definitely sets a dangerous precedent. If they can build a multi-story, multi-unit building on a property that had previously been designated a non-residential property, then there's no reason why someone can't raze their courtyard villa and build a 2-story 2-unit townhouse on theirs.

Exactly!

Opposition to the developers' plans started with property owners near the proposed apartments and has spread to others throughout The Villages and beyond.

These folks initially formed a Nextdoor group known as of the Villages Promises Preservation Watch (https://nextdoor.com/g/pitblc19z/?is=nav_bar) (V2PW) and put much thought into an action plan (https://v2pw.com/about-us/action-plan/).

You can read more about this group by visiting their website (https://v2pw.com/) and "liking" their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/740783176777732).

[Travelhunter]

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.
Definitely not my experience

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.
TDS does not have a pool. The pool is part of the Tierra Del Sol Recreation Center and is a “neighborhood “ pool.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.
Have you ever been to Palmer, Lopez, or any others? Read the description of the country clubs given in TV sales literature.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.
The residents were not uninformed. The residents are the lifeblood of the developers business.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.
I did not post any facts other than what was stated by the amenity authority at the public meeting. Did you attend?

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.
My facts are checked.

Well said
I would be unhappy paying for a premium lot and years later apartments are built

[Travelhunter]

I can not understand why the OP is getting grief for stating facts and attempting to help future Villagers make an informed decision? Is that not why most people read TOV, to learn useful information from fellow Villagers? Lighten up on the OP, I totally agree with him/her.

I second this opinion
Thanks for letting us know

[Rwirish]

Hacienda says it all. Your post is spot on.

[Rwirish]

Apartments including the Lofts in Brownwood are not a good addition. Simply a vertical move by the Developer to increase density and make more profit.

[DrBrutyle109]

My facts are correct.

I’m more concerned about the rising price of playing golf on the championship courses. I don’t care what’s around it, but I’d like see little or no change to the prices next year.

[MSchad]

Apartments including the Lofts in Brownwood are not a good addition. Simply a vertical move by the Developer to increase density and make more profit.
OMG.... A “Developer” in business to make a profit. How unthinkable.

[J1ceasar]

People can always vote with their feet or invest and start there own community

[tsmall22204]

Pam and Nick do not speak for the Villages population.

[banjobob]

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.
Definitely not my experience

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.
TDS does not have a pool. The pool is part of the Tierra Del Sol Recreation Center and is a “neighborhood “ pool.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.
Have you ever been to Palmer, Lopez, or any others? Read the description of the country clubs given in TV sales literature.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.
The residents were not uninformed. The residents are the lifeblood of the developers business.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.
I did not post any facts other than what was stated by the amenity authority at the public meeting. Did you attend?

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.
My facts are checked.
Thanks for following up on your article , so many armchair “professionals” spew their own version of what is happening. Look at all the comments posted,nuff said

[GoPacers]

Apartments including the Lofts in Brownwood are not a good addition. Simply a vertical move by the Developer to increase density and make more profit.

The Brownwood square has struggled almost since day one. When the square first opened it was well received and had a lot of nice and new restaurants. It wasn't long before some of those restaurants started closing as there just weren't enough people heading to Brownwood once the novelty of a new square wore off. Some of that was due to the fact Brownwood was at one extreme end of The Villages, some was due to the area being new and many of the homes were new. I suspect the Lofts will be a great addition to The Villages. It offers a different type of lifestyle and does provide a more integrated experience for those looking to rent before buying. From a homeowner perspective I'm actually pretty happy since many of my CYV neighbors are renters and that hinders the sense of community in our neighborhood. Some of those renters may be more likely to rent in Brownwood. The Lofts should also help increase the quality of the Brownwood square and increase the number and diversity of restaurants and stores there.

With change comes uncertainty but as another poster pointed out, the area where the Lofts are built used to be a big empty parking lot that had no chance of ever being full. Other than increasing the density of residents it actually has helped improve the asthetics of the area in my view.

I personally believe everything will be just fine. We need to remember that many of us retired at a different time and tomorrow's retirees will want something different than we did/do. If I were considering purchasing a home in The Villages I would be looking to the developer (and the community) to stay relevant over time. For The Villages to thrive and our home values to remain high it needs to adapt to the changing needs of those planning to retire in the next 5-20 years. I'm glad to see the changes and while I know these changes are not welcomed by all - I've lived long enough to know that no change ever is.

[Patzy]

I totally agree this should be a shared concern for existing TV owners and a decision input for new buyers. Thank you for posting this!
INVITATION to “all” Villagers who are concerned or perhaps just want to gain awareness and/or knowledge of TV 3rd Gen Dev efforts please join our Grass Root group Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW) web site v2pw.com and see our Facebook same name. We are in full swing researching and gathering support across TV, and we would love to add you to our energy.

Why you should care...our elevator speech

If you live in The Villages (TV) or are looking to purchase here, then you realize you invested in, or are considering investing in, an amazing Lifestyle. You also realize that retirement can be financially scary regarding investments that do not yield what you expected. When you decide to invest in TV you invest financially and emotionally in a home and an almost unbelievable Marketed Lifestyle.

It is impossible to visit TV without realizing why TV is an extraordinarily successful Lifestyle community. From TV marketing materials sent upon request, the Lifestyle Preview visits, the elaborate sales offices, the trolly and boat tours, TV daily newspaper and radio, and last but not least the continuously streaming music in the town squares, you know you are buying a Lifestyle.

You can find a lot of information inside and outside TV about purchasing and living here; however, so far what you probably haven’t found is what happens when TV takes back the promised features that affect your lifestyle and just as important, your property values.

A trend of eliminating lifestyle features is escalating within TV by the 3rd Generation Developers, and you should at least be aware and know enough to ask TV the right questions. And, if you already live here, join our efforts to influence the 3rd Generation Developers to “keep their promises” by joining Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW). Please visit our web site v2pw.com and subscribe for updates and to support our efforts and our Facebook v2pw . If you are looking to purchase in TV, take this BUYERS CHECKLIST with you.

I live next to Hacienda Hills Country Club on the course.
We visited TV 5 years before we bought our practice place in Orange Blossom. We did the Lifestyle Preview at Sumter Landing with lots of free stuff during those days. We experienced the extensively Marketed Lifestyle and while amazed we were skeptics. So, we visited on our own three more times. We purchase our practice place 3 years before I retired and used our visit here to explore all of TV to determine where we would want to live.
We feel in love with the Marketed Country Club Lifestyle and especially Hacienda Hills Country Club (HHCC) including the pool. We watched and purchased a home next HHCC on the Championship Golf Course. We invested in extensive improvements and addition to our “last and forever for us” home with the expectation that TV would continue to maintain and support their Marketed Lifestyle feature that we invested our retirement money and our hearts into. We’ve kept our end of the bargain. We improved and beautified our 20+ year old home to increase TV real estate value and market; however, TV has not, and their actions have already affected our home values.
The issue isn’t whether TV expands apartments as a viable and appealing living option; but rather, they are reneging on the Marketed Lifestyle and investment PROMISE. Farther the secretive and covert actions the 3rd Generation Developers conducted with HHCC and specifically with each Amenity Authority Committee (AAC) member in the one on one private and reportedly contentious meetings prior the AAC Aug 12th meeting solidify that we are no longer dealing with honorable, trustworthy, or ethical Villages non-resident owners (3rd Gen Dev).
So yes, resident owner and potential owner BEWARE. The caution isn’t to dis TV which we LOVE, but rather to realize that as with any homeowner management organization owners/buyers MUST be AWARE, MUST EDUCATE, MUST ENGAGE, and when necessary MUST ACT!
For those who say, nay we are fine, No Problem. You are not required to do anything. And that is fine. However, if you feel compelled to criticize those who are impacted and who do take action, you should check your motives.
INVITATION to “all” Villagers who are concerned or perhaps just want to gain awareness and/or knowledge of TV 3rd Gen Dev efforts please join our Grass Root group Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW) web site v2pw.com and see our Facebook same name. We are in full swing researching and gathering support across TV, and we would love to add you to our energy.

[graciegirl]

I totally agree this should be a shared concern for existing TV owners and a decision input for new buyers. Thank you for posting this!
INVITATION to “all” Villagers who are concerned or perhaps just want to gain awareness and/or knowledge of TV 3rd Gen Dev efforts please join our Grass Root group Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW) web site v2pw.com and see our Facebook same name. We are in full swing researching and gathering support across TV, and we would love to add you to our energy.

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE… Our Elevator Speech
If you live in The Villages (TV) or are looking to purchase here, then you realize you are buying an amazing Lifestyle. It is impossible to visit TV without realizing why TV is an extraordinarily successful Lifestyle community. From TV marketing materials sent upon request, the Lifestyle Preview visits, the elaborate sales offices, the trolly and boat tours, TV daily newspaper and radio, and last but not least the continuously streaming music in the town squares, you know you are buying a Lifestyle.

You can find a lot of information inside and outside TV about purchasing and living here; however, so far what you probably haven’t found is what happens when TV takes back the promised features that affect your lifestyle and just as important, your property values.

A trend of eliminating lifestyle features is escalating within TV by the 3rd Generation Developers, and you should at least be aware and know enough to ask TV the right questions. And, if you already live here, join our efforts to influence the 3rd Generation Developers to “keep their promises”. If you are looking to purchase in TV, take this BUYERS CHECKLIST with you.


I live next to Hacienda Hills Country Club on the course.
We visited TV 5 years before we bought our practice place in Orange Blossom. We did the Lifestyle Preview at Sumter Landing with lots of free stuff during those days. We experienced the extensively Marketed Lifestyle and while amazed we were skeptics. So, we visited on our own three more times. We purchase our practice place 3 years before I retired and used our visit here to explore all of TV to determine where we would want to live.
We feel in love with the Marketed Country Club Lifestyle and especially Hacienda Hills Country Club (HHCC) including the pool. We watched and purchased a home next HHCC on the Championship Golf Course. We invested in extensive improvements and addition to our “last and forever for us” home with the expectation that TV would continue to maintain and support their Marketed Lifestyle feature that we invested our retirement money and our hearts into. We’ve kept our end of the bargain. We improved and beautified our 20+ year old home to increase TV real estate value and market; however, TV has not, and their actions have already affected our home values.
The issue isn’t whether TV expands apartments as a viable and appealing living option; but rather, they are reneging on the Marketed Lifestyle and investment PROMISE. Farther the secretive and covert actions the 3rd Generation Developers conducted with HHCC and specifically with each Amenity Authority Committee (AAC) member in the one on one private and reportedly contentious meetings prior the AAC Aug 12th meeting solidify that we are no longer dealing with honorable, trustworthy, or ethical Villages non-resident owners (3rd Gen Dev).
So yes, resident owner and potential owner BEWARE. The caution isn’t to dis TV which we LOVE, but rather to realize that as with any homeowner management organization owners/buyers MUST be AWARE, MUST EDUCATE, MUST ENGAGE, and when necessary MUST ACT!
For those who say, nay we are fine, No Problem. You are not required to do anything. And that is fine. However, if you feel compelled to criticize those who are impacted and who do take action, you should check your motives.
INVITATION to “all” Villagers who are concerned or perhaps just want to gain awareness and/or knowledge of TV 3rd Gen Dev efforts please join our Grass Root group Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW) web site v2pw.com and see our Facebook same name. We are in full swing researching and gathering support across TV, and we would love to add you to our energy.

I was so afraid this would happen. Please know that this movement is not a good thing in my humble opinion.

Again a new poster and a bunch broadcasting gloom and doom.

People are not upset about the new apartments as an option in Brownwood and many have chosen to live in the complexes that are independent living at Freedom Pointe and the one on 466 next to Bob Evans. There are residential homes right behind the one on 466 and it has not changed them at all.

The developer and the Morse family have not changed in fifteen years since I have been here. They are not glitzy or big mouthed. They build houses and run things nicely. Every couple of years we get someone who wants to run things and change things. sigh.

[Dilligas]

So you are planning to buy a house in The Villages. Great! There are literally 10s of thousands of people here living the dream. We hope to keep it that way.

Please note this word of caution from a current resident. The Villages sales force mantra is “you are not buying a house, you are buying a lifestyle”. The lifestyle is rapidly changing – for the worse in the opinion of many.

You will probably consider paying a premium to have your single family home on a golf course and/or near a “country club”. Learn from the developers recent actions and decide if that is worth the risk. Here are a few facts.

There are several country clubs in the northern third of The Villages. These were built in the 80s and 90s and belong to the developer. Many people paid a premium to locate near them fully expecting to have access to a CC pool, tennis courts, a nice restaurant, a 18 or 27 hole course – you know, the things one normally associates with a country club. Two country clubs are now either non-existent or just a CC in name only (TDS in my opinion); Tierra Del Sol and Hacienda Hills. IT GETS WORSE.

The developer demolished Hacienda Hills CC and now states they plan to put an apartment complex on the site. Yes, an apartment complex in the middle of single family homes. To do this they had to get approval to offer amenities to the future apartment residents. A meeting was held to hear the current residents and the OVERWHELMING OPINION was a loud and clear NO. The Amenity authority (after meeting one on one with the developer) voted to ignore the residents and give approximately 280 amenities to the developer. There is much more to that story but this is already long. Read any post on Hacienda Hills on this blog.

Look at Hacienda Hills Country Club on Google Earth to get an idea of the area. The developer owns all the country clubs. Ask your real estate agent if the CC near your home is guaranteed to be there in 5 years.

Bottom line –do your diligence. We all hope the developer shows some respect to the current residents and reverses course. It is the right thing to do.
I totally disagree. Your comments are based on keeping everything like it was 30 years ago. Times and TV need to progress with the changing world. Hacienda Hills Country Club is still there without the building and restaurant that you stopped supporting. The replacement will have a restaurant and pool, all modern that you can enjoy. As you get older and can’t (or don’t want to) maintain your present home, you may want a luxury apartment to reside in before a nursing home is necessary. And now you will have it plus a nice golf course outside your door.
I thank the Developers everyday for staying to and improving in the vision for THe Villages.

[rlcooper70]

Running rough shod over the residents .... Developer may have the right to do it ..... yet are their ethical and moral reasons to the contrary? We would hope so. Discouraging.

[jbrown132]

This is your opinion. My opinion is that it is much ado about nothing. I know some who have been here for a very long time just cannot accept that time marches on and things evolve.

Bet you don’t own a house, for which you paid a premium, on those golf courses.

[ithos]

Being obnoxious doesn't make your point of view any more credible.

I do not know enough to have a strong opinion but I thought the OP post was detailed and appropriate for this forum. This is a major change to a neighborhood and will have a significant impact to the locals. For better or worse , I don't know but I would like to read opposing opinions based on facts with out the insults.

[Dlbonivich]

The developer gave you an opportunity to buy the building and land and your district did not want it. I guess the next time they make an offer if you do not want apartments or no say in what is built you better pony up the money. Then you can do whatever you want with the property.

[stan the man]

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.
Definitely not my experience

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.
TDS does not have a pool. The pool is part of the Tierra Del Sol Recreation Center and is a “neighborhood “ pool.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.
Have you ever been to Palmer, Lopez, or any others? Read the description of the country clubs given in TV sales literature.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.
The residents were not uninformed. The residents are the lifeblood of the developers business.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.
I did not post any facts other than what was stated by the amenity authority at the public meeting. Did you attend?

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.
My facts are checked.

Thank You :bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[MandoMan]

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.
Definitely not my experience

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.
TDS does not have a pool. The pool is part of the Tierra Del Sol Recreation Center and is a “neighborhood “ pool.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.
Have you ever been to Palmer, Lopez, or any others? Read the description of the country clubs given in TV sales literature.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.
The residents were not uninformed. The residents are the lifeblood of the developers business.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.
I did not post any facts other than what was stated by the amenity authority at the public meeting. Did you attend?

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.
My facts are checked.

I have a home in Tierra del Sol on the golf course. It has a lovely view. Golf carts zip by about every ten minutes all day long. I find 18 holes too much golf for one day, and I will never be good enough to deserve to play one of the championship courses. So, I’ll never pay for club membership, as an executive course is plenty for me. I’m not allowed to even walk on the cart paths if I’m not playing. So I’m just there for the view and the space. My amenities fee pays for all those executive courses and all those nice swimming pools and recreation centers. That’s plenty for me. Plus, I have my own pool overlooking the golf course. I hope apartments won’t go in where the restaurant once was, but if they did, I couldn’t see them from my house. Even if I lived fifty houses closer, I couldn’t see them. Now, if the four square miles of horse farms and polo fields behind my house were replaced with apartments or even houses, I’d be disappointed. I’d feel fenced in.

[ithos]

High end apartments such as in Brownwood potentially could be a great addition if it would result in more business for the town squares. But I would have greatly preferred if these were condos or townhomes with the same rules as existing home purchases. I would be a buyer.

The biggest risk is if they don't have strict occupancy rules to limit the number of people in each apartment.

[billethkid]

For most residents there will be no impact on their views or lifestyle.
If you can't see it, it is most likely not a an issue.

[Lisanp@aol.com]

Please allow an alternative perspective. I am 51 and my husband is 56. We will be in Florida within the next 5 years, and The Villages is a strong contender for us. We are not Boomers, we are Generation X. Generation X does not want the same retirement “lifestyle” as their Boomer parents. I currently own a large single family home and a small condominium in a ski resort. Guess which one I like better? In my “next stage”, I want the “lock and leave” ease of condo/apartment living. I want the amenities and activities of The Villages, and I’m willing to pay a premium for that - Premium! Apartments don’t have to mean lower income levels then single family homes. They can just simply be a lifestyle choice. I want to travel, spend time in several locations, and not have to worry about maintenance, gardening, pest control...any of the things you have to worry about with single family homes...the list is endless. I want easy and carefree. I want to make a phone call when something is broken, not get multiple estimates and wait home for the repairman who may or may not show up. Gereration X is now over 55, and we are just a different demographic then the Boomers that The Villages has focused on thus far. Times are changing, and I think the apartment concept is great!

[sloanst]

One occurrence can be a fluke. 2 can be a pattern. 3 is an intended trend. If the developer decides to destroy another country club, I will be seriously considering selling and moving out of Florida.

[davem4616]

there's roughly 130,000 of us in TV, looking to 'live the dream' and enjoy life...along with a very few disgruntled folks that don't like change or seem to have a personal bias against the developer

successful developers are always looking at what the evolving trends are and where the market that they seek to serve may be shifting...and the smart ones go there

where the developer sees the market heading could easily be in direct conflict with someone's that perhaps bought into 'their personal dream' years ago...the good news is that the great majority of the 'new vision' and change is happening far away geographically from the folks that bought into TV years ago and may not be interested in change

There's a lot of 'upside' to living in TV....why I'd bet even old "Mr. Wilson" (from the comic strip 'Dennis the Menace') would find happiness here

[collie1228]

A question for all of you who have many excuses for the developer's decision to build an apartment complex in a residential area of single family homes. What is your excuse for the developer having no intention of improving Morse Blvd., an already busy two lane road (and in my opinion dangerous)? Are you going to tell me that my opinion, as a full-time resident who lives less than 1/2 mile north of the apartment site, who has to travel on Morse Blvd. daily, doesn't matter? Most of you won't have to deal with the fallout from the extra traffic that this apartment complex will generate. I will. And I don't like it. And that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

[rcarolekug]

So you are planning to buy a house in The Villages. Great! There are literally 10s of thousands of people here living the dream. We hope to keep it that way.

Please note this word of caution from a current resident. The Villages sales force mantra is “you are not buying a house, you are buying a lifestyle”. The lifestyle is rapidly changing – for the worse in the opinion of many.

You will probably consider paying a premium to have your single family home on a golf course and/or near a “country club”. Learn from the developers recent actions and decide if that is worth the risk. Here are a few facts.

There are several country clubs in the northern third of The Villages. These were built in the 80s and 90s and belong to the developer. Many people paid a premium to locate near them fully expecting to have access to a CC pool, tennis courts, a nice restaurant, a 18 or 27 hole course – you know, the things one normally associates with a country club. Two country clubs are now either non-existent or just a CC in name only (TDS in my opinion); Tierra Del Sol and Hacienda Hills. IT GETS WORSE.

The developer demolished Hacienda Hills CC and now states they plan to put an apartment complex on the site. Yes, an apartment complex in the middle of single family homes. To do this they had to get approval to offer amenities to the future apartment residents. A meeting was held to hear the current residents and the OVERWHELMING OPINION was a loud and clear NO. The Amenity authority (after meeting one on one with the developer) voted to ignore the residents and give approximately 280 amenities to the developer. There is much more to that story but this is already long. Read any post on Hacienda Hills on this blog.

Look at Hacienda Hills Country Club on Google Earth to get an idea of the area. The developer owns all the country clubs. Ask your real estate agent if the CC near your home is guaranteed to be there in 5 years.

Bottom line –do your diligence. We all hope the developer shows some respect to the current residents and reverses course. It is the right thing to do.
I have a wonderful house in Santiago for sale with perfect neighbors We had to leave to be nearer children. Check house on la hermosa

[toeser]

But the fact is that it matters to you but not to me. Not saying it's not true I am saying I don't see it as a big issue.

Maybe because you don't live next to it. Empathy may not be your long suit.

[Chi-Town]

Most buy on CC's for the view not for the pool or restaurant. Have you ever been to a CC pool, usually empty.
Definitely not my experience

TDS has a pool and a golf course. From what I've read Hacienda will have a pool and golf course.
TDS does not have a pool. The pool is part of the Tierra Del Sol Recreation Center and is a “neighborhood “ pool.

This may come as a shock but your definition of a country club isn't close. The restaurants are privately owned and have no relationship to the golf operation. Since TDS has all the golf holes, and your opinion on HH is pure speculation.
Have you ever been to Palmer, Lopez, or any others? Read the description of the country clubs given in TV sales literature.

This may also come as a shock but the residents have no say in the Developers business, or in any business that they have not invested in. Just because a bunch of uninformed residents show up doesn't mean anyone should make decisions based on their input.
The residents were not uninformed. The residents are the lifeblood of the developers business.

There have been several posts on here on the amenity fees associated with the speculated apartments so I won't repeat the information that is out there. You might want to search so you get your facts correct.
I did not post any facts other than what was stated by the amenity authority at the public meeting. Did you attend?

Nothing is guaranteed to be here in 5 years.....and if folks want to live in a community that will remain the same then I agree with you, they shouldn't move here. If you can't handle change then don't come or don't stay.

Oh, and check your facts before your sky continues to fall.
My facts are checked.

Most impressive point counterpoint.

[Two Bills]

I have no dog in this fight, but I have to agree with the people whose outlook will be changed drastically by the new development.
There is a lot of difference between a Country Club and golf course view, which many have paid extra for, and a multi story block of condos.
If I was such a resident, I too would be hacked off at the drastic change of use.
I personally think condos are a great idea, and have a place in The Villages, and that there will be, and is a large demand for them.
Surely the place for them though, is in the new developments to the south, not as infills.
I would also hazard a guess that most of the snide remarks directed at those affected, live nowhere near the area, and would be the first to scream blue murder is the same thing was to happen in their location.
JMO.

[davem4616]

Please allow an alternative perspective. I am 51 and my husband is 56. We will be in Florida for within the next 5 years, and The Villages is a strong contender for us. We are not Boomers, we are Generation X. Generation X do not want the same retirement “lifestyle” as their Boomer parents. I currently own a large single family home and a small condominium in a ski resort. Guess which one I like better? In my “next stage”, I want the “lock and leave” ease of my condimium/apartment living. I want the amenities and activities of The Villages, and I’m willing to pay a premium for that - Premium. Apartments don’t have to mean lower income levels then single family homes. They can just simply be a lifestyle choice. I want to travel, spend time in several locations, and not have to worry about maintenance, gardening, pest control...any of the things you have to worry about with single family homes...the list is endless. I want easy and carefree. I want to make a phone call when something is broken, not get multiple estimates and wait home for the repairman who may or may not show up. Gereration X is now over 55, and we are just a different demographic then the Boomers that The Villages has focused on thus far. Times are changing, and I think the apartment concept is great!


exactly...every age group is looking for something different: the "Matures" certainly aren't overly interested in change...many of the "Boomer's" haven't read the statistics that unlike themselves the generations behind them aren't interested in living on a golf course, they want to see the world. We like to travel too. What's nice is that TV is an extremely safe community...and there are people that will check on your home while you are away for a modest fee. Good luck finding your dream.

[Jesseboy]

Greed is alive and well in the "Happy Place", enough is never enough for this developer.

[dewilson58]

I remember last year when a few were upset because a swamp area(s) behind their homes were dry. Paying for a pond/swamp view, they expected the Developer to fix the the waterless issue.


There are not permanent "guarantees"...........even thou no one guaranteed anything.


What about the premiere home owners who paid an $100k for a view of a golf course on 466a and now enjoy the lights of Lowes & Publix at night. Bummer.

[npwalters]

I’m sorry, but I thought you were warning prospective residents that this might happen to them if they buy here. I believe this is an issue only in the northern area. The CCs in the rest of TV are surrounded by green space—not homes. For the vast majority of residents, this is a non issue.

If they choose to do it in the northern area they can choose to do it elsewhere. A little thought will cause most to be concerned.

[justjim]

If TV was a municipality instead of a number of CDD’S, tearing down a so called Country Club and replacing it with apartments in no way could happen without permits, public hearings, disclosure, etc. etc. I have no dog in this fight. However, if I lived in this Community Development District, I would not be “happy” with the situation until I had full disclosure of what was going to be built in my backyard. There is nothing like the fear of the unknown when it might have a large impact on your well being. The Developer could put a lot of the fear to rest with full disclosure as to what will actually be built on this property. What many of us are finding out living in The Villages and in a Community Development District is that we residents have little idea what rights we have when it comes to property that is adjacent to ours and owned by The Developer. Bottom line, living in a Community Development District is quite different from the type of government we lived in most of our lives. Maybe it’s time for some to become better educated and informed about the place in which we chose to live. Just saying...

[npwalters]

I totally agree this should be a shared concern for existing TV owners and a decision input for new buyers. Thank you for posting this!
INVITATION to “all” Villagers who are concerned or perhaps just want to gain awareness and/or knowledge of TV 3rd Gen Dev efforts please join our Grass Root group Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW) web site v2pw.com and see our Facebook same name. We are in full swing researching and gathering support across TV, and we would love to add you to our energy.

Why you should care...our elevator speech

If you live in The Villages (TV) or are looking to purchase here, then you realize you invested in, or are considering investing in, an amazing Lifestyle. You also realize that retirement can be financially scary regarding investments that do not yield what you expected. When you decide to invest in TV you invest financially and emotionally in a home and an almost unbelievable Marketed Lifestyle.

It is impossible to visit TV without realizing why TV is an extraordinarily successful Lifestyle community. From TV marketing materials sent upon request, the Lifestyle Preview visits, the elaborate sales offices, the trolly and boat tours, TV daily newspaper and radio, and last but not least the continuously streaming music in the town squares, you know you are buying a Lifestyle.

You can find a lot of information inside and outside TV about purchasing and living here; however, so far what you probably haven’t found is what happens when TV takes back the promised features that affect your lifestyle and just as important, your property values.

A trend of eliminating lifestyle features is escalating within TV by the 3rd Generation Developers, and you should at least be aware and know enough to ask TV the right questions. And, if you already live here, join our efforts to influence the 3rd Generation Developers to “keep their promises” by joining Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW). Please visit our web site v2pw.com and subscribe for updates and to support our efforts and our Facebook v2pw . If you are looking to purchase in TV, take this BUYERS CHECKLIST with you.

I live next to Hacienda Hills Country Club on the course.
We visited TV 5 years before we bought our practice place in Orange Blossom. We did the Lifestyle Preview at Sumter Landing with lots of free stuff during those days. We experienced the extensively Marketed Lifestyle and while amazed we were skeptics. So, we visited on our own three more times. We purchase our practice place 3 years before I retired and used our visit here to explore all of TV to determine where we would want to live.
We feel in love with the Marketed Country Club Lifestyle and especially Hacienda Hills Country Club (HHCC) including the pool. We watched and purchased a home next HHCC on the Championship Golf Course. We invested in extensive improvements and addition to our “last and forever for us” home with the expectation that TV would continue to maintain and support their Marketed Lifestyle feature that we invested our retirement money and our hearts into. We’ve kept our end of the bargain. We improved and beautified our 20+ year old home to increase TV real estate value and market; however, TV has not, and their actions have already affected our home values.
The issue isn’t whether TV expands apartments as a viable and appealing living option; but rather, they are reneging on the Marketed Lifestyle and investment PROMISE. Farther the secretive and covert actions the 3rd Generation Developers conducted with HHCC and specifically with each Amenity Authority Committee (AAC) member in the one on one private and reportedly contentious meetings prior the AAC Aug 12th meeting solidify that we are no longer dealing with honorable, trustworthy, or ethical Villages non-resident owners (3rd Gen Dev).
So yes, resident owner and potential owner BEWARE. The caution isn’t to dis TV which we LOVE, but rather to realize that as with any homeowner management organization owners/buyers MUST be AWARE, MUST EDUCATE, MUST ENGAGE, and when necessary MUST ACT!
For those who say, nay we are fine, No Problem. You are not required to do anything. And that is fine. However, if you feel compelled to criticize those who are impacted and who do take action, you should check your motives.
INVITATION to “all” Villagers who are concerned or perhaps just want to gain awareness and/or knowledge of TV 3rd Gen Dev efforts please join our Grass Root group Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW) web site v2pw.com and see our Facebook same name. We are in full swing researching and gathering support across TV, and we would love to add you to our energy.

Great post. I will reaffirm my support to V2PW today.

Please post this as a stand alone on this site.

[Bay Kid]

I'm not an apartment type, or city life. But TVs is still great.

[EdFNJ]

Apparently, when you live in one of the Bridgeport Villages, where you are seemingly safe that there will never be a high density rental apartment complex built in your back yard, it is easy to criticize those that don't have that luxury, and are not happy their neighborhood is rapidly going downhill! Go figure? Not sure if that was addressed to (about) me since you quoted my post but we live happily in a little 2/2 in Amelia. ;) I have no problems with multi-story apartments that are NIMBY and feel they can be put neatly in places like they did in Brownwood (on the edges of town). I have no doubt they will be beautiful AND expensive (relative to my situation of course YMMV).

And to those folks who blame people for not "supporting" the Hacienda CC for the "rise of apartments" that is totally absurd. They could just as easily have built another single family Village there.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

They took the restaurant down because it wasn’t making money , same thing with Katie B for a group of people who who complain about socialism coming , why this constant anger about the family making to much money. How sad to always bevwanting things like the old days, I’ve been around here 20 years in 5 new homes, the changes have for the most part have been great . I love the fact that at 81 there are even more choices of how you wish to live . I have a friend in the lofts she loves it , walks to gym, stores , restaurants
Publix . She is a healthy 75 she didn’t want to live in a house anymore and didn’t want to live in independent living . When this virus passes I will go back to alternating winters In Thailand, Miami Beach and Hawaii , you see at 81 I’m always embracing change , it’s what life should be about

[Sherrilee]

Don’t let people’s opinions stop you from buying. Yes I feel bad for the surrounding people near those apartments, but it’s a wonderful clean safe place to live .Your new best friend may be Living in those apartments.

[twoplanekid]

If you wait and see, you will then know that the apartments will be built and then will be absorbed flawlessly. They will not be inhabited by down at the heels people, but very quiet ones who seek a smaller place as they age. Many will have golf carts only.

Every time there is something, anything, that some people can find to leap on the developer they do, and year after year, nothing awful has happened. The flowers still get changed out, the miles of bushes get trimmed, there isn't any debris or junk in the roadways, the areas south of 466 controlled by the developer get painted and repaired and everything is fine.

Every couple of years some wanna be hot shot raises his/her voice and decides he/she wants to run things and get things all set up to be run like an Orlando or a Jacksonville or a Deland. They don't like CDD's. Too much like successful private enterprise for them. Too quiet, not much crime. Things get done. No big mouths at the helms of ANYTHING running their mouths and making promises.

And we get this kind of rhetoric and then things work out JUST FINE and they have to look for another fish to fry.

Please note that CDDs were originally created by the Florida legislature to help developers build new communities and then have residents elect their own supervisors to run the government. The Villages is a unique instance were the Developer does retain control of the commercial CDDs which are setup as kind of master CDD’s with all residential CDDs eventually having locally elected representation. So, it a CDD mixture of both private and local citizens control with for some reason the commercial CDDs having more influence over everything. I don’t believe that this mixture was the intent of the original CDD legislation.

[oldtimes]

Maybe because you don't live next to it. Empathy may not be your long suit.

Or maybe it is because I am a realist. You cannot move anyplace and expect that in 20 years it will still be the same, it happens everywhere all the time. The majority of the people who live here or who are moving here are going to find this to be a non-issue. Where is your empathy for the people who are going to be delighted to downsize to one of these.

[Bwolf1]

This is your opinion. My opinion is that it is much ado about nothing. I know some who have been here for a very long time just cannot accept that time marches on and things evolve.

What was stated here seems to be about 100% fact. Your comment is however 100% opinion. In kindergarten we were taught to keep our opinions to ourselves, except on Election Day.

[newgirl]

Why? I believe we have paid through our fees to have that and other rec centers and my fee did not go down when they got rid of the last two?

[waltwl]

Well said

[TandHSTAR@AOL.com]

Tierra Del Sol is not a country club.

[John41]

Or maybe it is because I am a realist. You cannot move anyplace and expect that in 20 years it will still be the same, it happens everywhere all the time. The majority of the people who live here or who are moving here are going to find this to be a non-issue. Where is your empathy for the people who are going to be delighted to downsize to one of these.

Yes it’s reasonable that what you signed on for will be here in 20 years. It’s selfish of apartment dwellers to turn this single family community into a crowded city for their benefit. And if the rental market has a downturn who knows what the developer will rent to.

[EviesGP]

As long as the golf courses remain, I will withhold judgement, until I see the building plans. I would hope the planning/zoning committee(s) would take into consideration, the appropriateness of the size/structure? Having been there quite a few times, and looking at Google maps overhead, I'm not sure how many homes would be able to see this building, with the location and the trees? But again, I will wait to see, as it's been stated that the 280(?) amenities would be spread over various locations?

[graciegirl]

Yes it’s reasonable that what you signed on for will be here in 20 years. It’s selfish of apartment dwellers to turn this single family community into a crowded city for their benefit. And if the rental market has a downturn who knows what the developer will rent to.

One of the things that responsible adults, especially those who have taught children, always, ALWAYS try to do is to


Quell rumors.

[npwalters]

Tierra Del Sol is not a country club.

You might want to let The Villages operations know that so they can change all their signs that call it a country club.

[oldtimes]

What was stated here seems to be about 100% fact. Your comment is however 100% opinion. In kindergarten we were taught to keep our opinions to ourselves, except on Election Day.

Many of the posts here are opinion and everyone is entitled to have one. It is a public forum not kindergarten. You see it as the sky falling, I don’t. People who are thinking about moving here are entitled to hear both sides.

[npwalters]

The oddest responses to the Hacienda Hills discussion to me is the "well it will be beautiful, just like everything TV does".

You might as well say "it is a turd in the punchbowl but it will be a beautiful turd".

It is a proposed apartment complex in the middle of single family homes forced on the existing residents.

[Huskies]

But the fact is that it matters to you but not to me. Not saying it's not true I am saying I don't see it as a big issue.
If it was put in your backyard you would care

[asianthree]

I find this thread interesting there are newer people making comments with less than 10 posts. There are also people who have been on this site for more than five years but have posted very little until this thread. Maybe it’s because they are too busy enjoying life in TV, instead of staring at this website.
For those who does not affect their home or their view I get why many are ok with the change.

Kind of have a dog in this fight. We have been looking at a couple of houses on the golf course that would be impacted possibly by the new apartments. Do I want to spend $600,000 and up to possibly see the new apartments.

Just had an honest talk with both TV rep and MLS. While in my life time if I now purchase that $800,000 and up home on any other championship course, will it still be the same view, or could it change.

I agree and have always said that the apartments in Brownwood and in the old Katie belles will be a welcome addition. There are many people here that no longer want to live in their own private home.

After all since we started coming in 2007 we are always told never buy the house with a pretty view of an empty acreage it could one day turn into a target. Now my concern is that if I buy a house with that beautiful view of a course, it could change down the road to the back of a building. While the building will be tastefully done by the developer it’s still not the view that I originally bought.

[jimjamuser]

OMG.... A “Developer” in business to make a profit. How unthinkable.
There are profits and there are outrageous profits. There are monopolies within capitalism. Since I don't see any competitors to the "Developers", without much research on the subject, my initial conclusion would be that TV Land is a monopoly. TV may have been great when it was smaller and only north of 466, but now at its "bloated" size, many people on this forum seem to have their doubts. TV Land MAY (?) be a monopoly without any appropriate guardrails?

[Jayhawk]

. And if the rental market has a downturn who knows what the developer will rent to.

At $3,200 a month for a 3BR you don't need to worry about who will rent it. Most people paying that could buy 2 Designer homes, so rest easy.

[NJRICHARD]

Unfortunately.....follow the money......the 'youuths' did not learn from their father.....they know better!!!!

[Laker14]

I don't like the trend. I think it's inconsiderate at best, of the existing neighborhood, and if I lived in the immediate proximity I'd be upset. I think the OP makes a good point about being aware of the trend if one is in the market to buy. I have been coming to TV for years, currently a snowbird renter, but we are strongly considering buying a home. This probably won't be a deal breaker for us, but it does give me cause for pause.

[Ramone]

Where is POA (Property Owners Asso) on all this take back and removal of their sale pitches of 20 years ago? Have they gathered documents from residents showing these amenity sales pitches from the past, are they prepared to litigate for us? Lets not forget the most popular club of all, the Silver Lake Club. ramondov@aol.com

[Aloha1]

There are profits and there are outrageous profits. There are monopolies within capitalism. Since I don't see any competitors to the "Developers", without much research on the subject, my initial conclusion would be that TV Land is a monopoly. TV may have been great when it was smaller and only north of 466, but now at its "bloated" size, many people on this forum seem to have their doubts. TV Land MAY (?) be a monopoly without any appropriate guardrails?

TV is not a monopoly. It is a development. You buy the land, you build, you sell. The same as all the other 55+ communities around the country and here in Florida. As to "profit", no one forced you to buy here. You agreed to pay the price. As long as the market demand is there, The Developer will continue to make profit. I have no problem with that since I don't believe in taking from success nor do I hold envy against those who are succesfull.

[Jayhawk]

Where is POA (Property Owners Asso) on all this take back and removal of their sale pitches of 20 years ago? Have they gathered documents from residents showing these amenity sales pitches from the past, are they prepared to litigate for us? Lets not forget the most popular club of all, the Silver Lake Club. ramondov@aol.com


Things come and go. It's called Progress. People who expect things to stay the same are not realistic. This effort for legal action will go nowhere if sensible minds prevail.

Answering machines.
Apple iPods
BetaMax
Boombox
Car keys
Cassette tape.
Coin-operated arcades.
Classified ads.
Dial-up internet access.
Eight track tapes and players
Encyclopedia.
Fax machine.
Film rolls.
Floppy disk.
Incandescent light bulb.
Key punch cards.
Movie rental stores.
Pager.
Pay phones.
PDA's (personal digital assistants).
Polaroid photo.
Record stores.
Rolodex
Small portable tv's.
Smoking in bars.
Stand-alone GPS units in cars.
Typewriter.
VHS-tapes.
VCR player.
Walkman.
Wall telephones.
Yellow pages.

[Stu from NYC]

Where is POA (Property Owners Asso) on all this take back and removal of their sale pitches of 20 years ago? Have they gathered documents from residents showing these amenity sales pitches from the past, are they prepared to litigate for us? Lets not forget the most popular club of all, the Silver Lake Club. ramondov@aol.com

Silver Lake Club?

[Topspinmo]

I’m sorry, but I thought you were warning prospective residents that this might happen to them if they buy here. I believe this is an issue only in the northern area. The CCs in the rest of TV are surrounded by green space—not homes. For the vast majority of residents, this is a non issue.

So, the northern area are glenview, Lopez, palmer’s? So, not important in northern areas cause most will be living south. What happens when it affects you’re neighborhood?

[Topspinmo]

Things come and go. It's called Progress. People who expect things to stay the same are not realistic. This effort for legal action will go nowhere if sensible minds prevail.

Answering machines.
Apple iPods
BetaMax
Boombox
Car keys
Cassette tape.
Coin-operated arcades.
Classified ads.
Dial-up internet access.
Eight track tapes and players
Encyclopedia.
Fax machine.
Film rolls.
Floppy disk.
Incandescent light bulb.
Key punch cards.
Movie rental stores.
Pager.
Pay phones.
PDA's (personal digital assistants).
Polaroid photo.
Record stores.
Rolodex
Small portable tv's.
Smoking in bars.
Stand-alone GPS units in cars.
Typewriter.
VHS-tapes.
VCR player.
Walkman.
Wall telephones.
Yellow pages.

And cigar smoker’s:1rotfl:

[John41]

At $3,200 a month for a 3BR you don't need to worry about who will rent it. Most people paying that could buy 2 Designer homes, so rest easy.

I was thinking the developer might perhaps try rentals to multiple individuals or short term rentals, one to two weeks.

In a downturn multi family properties devalue the most, whereas single family homes maintain their value better.

[John41]

Where is POA (Property Owners Asso) on all this take back and removal of their sale pitches of 20 years ago? Have they gathered documents from residents showing these amenity sales pitches from the past, are they prepared to litigate for us? Lets not forget the most popular club of all, the Silver Lake Club. ramondov@aol.com

We, the residents, are the POA. So join if you expect them to work for us. And read the POA bulletin. A group of five POA members (that’s us) won a $45 million judgement against the developer for underfunded reserves north of 466.

[crydzanich]

Where do you live? If it was in your back yard, you would care!

[npwalters]

We, the residents, are the POA. So join if you expect them to work for us. And read the POA bulletin. A group of five POA members (that’s u s) won a $45 million judgement against the developer for underfunded reserves north of 466.

The POA published a very good opinion piece, backed by facts, regarding Hacienda Hills published in the last edition. Worth your time to read even if you aren't in the current line of fire.

[yankygrl]

Things come and go. It's called Progress. People who expect things to stay the same are not realistic. This effort for legal action will go nowhere if sensible minds prevail.

Answering machines.
Apple iPods
BetaMax
Boombox
Car keys
Cassette tape.
Coin-operated arcades.
Classified ads.
Dial-up internet access.
Eight track tapes and players
Encyclopedia.
Fax machine.
Film rolls.
Floppy disk.
Incandescent light bulb.
Key punch cards.
Movie rental stores.
Pager.
Pay phones.
PDA's (personal digital assistants).
Polaroid photo.
Record stores.
Rolodex
Small portable tv's.
Smoking in bars.
Stand-alone GPS units in cars.
Typewriter.
VHS-tapes.
VCR player.
Walkman.
Wall telephones.
Yellow pages.
You spent a lot of time making this list of things that are and were.

[Jayhawk]

You spent a lot of time making this list of things that are and were.

I have lots of time. And it was mostly cut and paste.

[psgolf@comcast.net]

psgolf@comcast.netSo you are planning to buy a house in The Villages. Great! There are literally 10s of thousands of people here living the dream. We hope to keep it that way.

Please note this word of caution from a current resident. The Villages sales force mantra is “you are not buying a house, you are buying a lifestyle”. The lifestyle is rapidly changing – for the worse in the opinion of many.

You will probably consider paying a premium to have your single family home on a golf course and/or near a “country club”. Learn from the developers recent actions and decide if that is worth the risk. Here are a few facts.

There are several country clubs in the northern third of The Villages. These were built in the 80s and 90s and belong to the developer. Many people paid a premium to locate near them fully expecting to have access to a CC pool, tennis courts, a nice restaurant, a 18or 27 hole course – you know, the things one normally associates with a country club. Two country clubs are now either non-existent or just a CC in name only (TDS in my opinion); Tierra Del Sol and Hacienda Hills. IT GETS WORSE.

The developer demolished Hacienda Hills CC and now states they plan to put an apartment complex on the site. Yes, an apartment complex in the middle of single family homes. To do this they had to get approval to offer amenities to the future apartment residents. A meeting was held to hear the current residents and the OVERWHELMING OPINION was a loud and clear NO. The Amenity authority (after meeting one on one with the developer) voted to ignore the residents and give approximately 280 amenities to the developer. There is much more to that story but this is already long. Read any post on Hacienda Hills on this blog.

Look at Hacienda Hills Country Club on Google Earth to get an idea of the area. The developer owns all the country clubs. Ask your real estate agent if the CC near your home is guaranteed to be there in 5 years.

Bottom line –do your diligence. We all hope the developer shows some respect to the current residents and reverses course. It is the right thing to do.

When do we picket sales offices and have a golf cart parade to protest all these appartments

[psgolf@comcast.net]

Residents should picket sales office and form a golf cart parade to show their disgust with the plan !!!
Not what we bought into 10 or 15 years ago. They would hate the adverse publicity!!!

[John41]

Residents should picket sales office and form a golf cart parade to show their disgust with the plan !!!
Not what we bought into 10 or 15 years ago. They would hate the adverse publicity!!!

I could tell you a story that supports what you say but it’s part rumor and the rumor police would fine me.

[npwalters]

Residents should picket sales office and form a golf cart parade to show their disgust with the plan !!!
Not what we bought into 10 or 15 years ago. They would hate the adverse publicity!!!

From an earlier post:

INVITATION to “all” Villagers who are concerned or perhaps just want to gain awareness and/or knowledge of TV 3rd Gen Dev efforts please join our Grass Root group Villages Promise Preservation Watch (V2PW) web site v2pw.com and see our Facebook same name. We are in full swing researching and gathering support across TV, and we would love to add you to our energy.

[BiPartisan]

Why? I believe we have paid through our fees to have that and other rec centers and my fee did not go down when they got rid of the last two?

What 2 rec centers have closed?

Also, let's make sure any prospective buyers reading this has a few more facts. The OP, or anyone else has not been in Hacienda Hill restaurant since April 2019, it was vacant. The developer offered to sell the building, pool, tennis courts and parking lot to the Amenities District for $350000 (about the price of a nice home). That would give the residents the option to do what they feel is most appropriate. The district declined.

The Developer made an effort to find a contractor to take the location as is the case in the other CC restaurants.
No takers, the residents did not support the business, therefore it was non profitable.

I can't speak if the apartments is the best choice or not, but it doesn't affect my lifestyle here in the Villages. I will still play golf, play picleball, attend my clubs, go to the pools, go to the squares for dining and entertainment, attend show at the Sharon and Savanah Center. I don't believe losing the Hacienda Hills restaurant will affect those things at all.

The Developer also just announced a major expansion that will include 3 new championship golf courses, a milti use recreation area, shopping and entertainment, health/medical, under 55 housing with a new charter school.

[Love2Swim]

This is your opinion. My opinion is that it is much ado about nothing. I know some who have been here for a very long time just cannot accept that time marches on and things evolve.

It isn’t an “opinion”. The poster stated the facts. Why is that so bothersome?

[Jazzman]

What amazes me on this site is when someone posts their true feelings about the Villages or the actions of the developer, there always is an overwhelming number of responses whereby the inference to the poster is that you are nothing but a complainer. These posters are in my opinion just like the posters on that other so called “news site”where they are absolutely correct in their opinion and you are to dumb to comprehend the issue.

Now what I read regarding the apartments at Hacienda was that a representative from the developer attended a meeting to listen to residents’ concerns and I will paraphrase stated if we don’t build the apartments we will build a parking garage for the hospital instead. Yes, the developer is the owner of the property and has a right to do with it whatever they wish. However, stating it’s either a parking garage or apartments fails in my opinion to even listen to those that oppose.

As someone posted here, the individuals who run the country club lease the space from the developer and pay whatever moneys they agreed to when entering the lease agreement. The developer owns the property which includes the physical building and the parking lot. The developer gets x dollars annually from the operator. Now any owner can do a cost benefit analysis and determine that they get x dollars annually from this arrangement but maybe could get more if they could use that same space for a select number of apartments. Nothing stops an owner/developer from making that change once a lease is up for renewal.

So many posting here will say I’m crazy and this will never happen, but it already did. And it’s not the residents fault that Hacienda failed because they didn’t patronize, it was the restaurant operator who tried to milk the residents with substandard food and service. Any of the posters here who have been residents here for twenty years or more will tell you that for years Hacienda was the place to go and on certain days of the week men were required to wear jacket and tie. So stop blaming residents who stopped patronizing as no one stops patronizing any business establishment that provides quality goods and great service.

[Northwoods]

Where is POA (Property Owners Asso) on all this take back and removal of their sale pitches of 20 years ago? Have they gathered documents from residents showing these amenity sales pitches from the past, are they prepared to litigate for us? Lets not forget the most popular club of all, the Silver Lake Club. ramondov@aol.com

We bought a view site (on a retention pond). We were told at closing (and I'm sure it's in the closing documents we signed), that there is no guarantee that the retention pond will continue to hold water. In other words, it could go dry. We paid the premium and signed the documents. I'm sure our closing document isn't the only one with those disclaimers.
So before you find that litigator, you should probably read those documents.

[Edcarney]

You are right on.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Noob here, own but have not moved down from New England yet. There are valid feelings / thoughts / predictions from both sides, those who love where they have lived, and those who are a bit disappointed in changes. What does one do in the winter in New England when there is 3 feet of snow, still snowing and sub zero? Look at houses to buy in Florida of course!

One of the lowest cost houses I saw two winters ago, but the most unaffordable house at the same time, was on a golf course, almost 3K sq feet, and under 300K. The catch? mandatory membership at $45K per year. Unforeseen and unpredictable changes can have many forms, such as mismanagement or being overtaken by events, such as pandemics, which don't care about management abilities. I am sure that the original membership wasn't that high or that the expected investment returns didn't materialize to maintain an expected lifestyle.

The key to everyone's happiness is coping with unexpected or unrealized outcomes. You could have just as well never made it to this age nor lifestyle, but you did and you expect that to continue. . . like you you did 20 years ago, or whatever. Heck, the southern oaks just got hit with another bond for the continued development, so yes, I am temporarily unhappy, but have you noticed the change in attitude in John Rahm over the last several years, where he learned how to management disappointment and unrealized expectation of sinking every putt, to now where he is world number 1?

Your happiness to the reaction to change or unrealized expectations is your coping ability with attitude to deal with what you can't control. And those unrealized expectations of living in florida on a golf course isn't limited to the Villages, its to everyone everywhere.

the future is uncertain, sometimes more uncertain that at other times. now being a time of high uncertainty and very uncomfortable.

sportsguy

[vintageogauge]

Noob here, own but have not moved down from New England yet. There are valid feelings / thoughts / predictions from both sides, those who love where they have lived, and those who are a bit disappointed in changes. What does one do in the winter in New England when there is 3 feet of snow, still snowing and sub zero? Look at houses to buy in Florida of course!

One of the lowest cost houses I saw two winters ago, but the most unaffordable house at the same time, was on a golf course, almost 3K sq feet, and under 300K. The catch? mandatory membership at $45K per year. Unforeseen and unpredictable changes can have many forms, such as mismanagement or being overtaken by events, such as pandemics, which don't care about management abilities. I am sure that the original membership wasn't that high or that the expected investment returns didn't materialize to maintain an expected lifestyle.

The key to everyone's happiness is coping with unexpected or unrealized outcomes. You could have just as well never made it to this age nor lifestyle, but you did and you expect that to continue. . . like you you did 20 years ago, or whatever. Heck, the southern oaks just got hit with another bond for the continued development, so yes, I am temporarily unhappy, but have you noticed the change in attitude in John Rahm over the last several years, where he learned how to management disappointment and unrealized expectation of sinking every putt, to now where he is world number 1?

Your happiness to the reaction to change or unrealized expectations is your coping ability with attitude to deal with what you can't control. And those unrealized expectations of living in florida on a golf course isn't limited to the Villages, its to everyone everywhere.

the future is uncertain, sometimes more uncertain that at other times. now being a time of high uncertainty and very uncomfortable.

sportsguy

Can you explain southern oaks getting hit with "Another Bond"?

[asianthree]

Can you explain southern oaks getting hit with "Another Bond"?

Wondering the same thing

[Ladygolfer93]

So you are planning to buy a house in The Villages. Great! There are literally 10s of thousands of people here living the dream. We hope to keep it that way.

Please note this word of caution from a current resident. The Villages sales force mantra is “you are not buying a house, you are buying a lifestyle”. The lifestyle is rapidly changing – for the worse in the opinion of many.

You will probably consider paying a premium to have your single family home on a golf course and/or near a “country club”. Learn from the developers recent actions and decide if that is worth the risk. Here are a few facts.

There are several country clubs in the northern third of The Villages. These were built in the 80s and 90s and belong to the developer. Many people paid a premium to locate near them fully expecting to have access to a CC pool, tennis courts, a nice restaurant, a 18 or 27 hole course – you know, the things one normally associates with a country club. Two country clubs are now either non-existent or just a CC in name only (TDS in my opinion); Tierra Del Sol and Hacienda Hills. IT GETS WORSE.

The developer demolished Hacienda Hills CC and now states they plan to put an apartment complex on the site. Yes, an apartment complex in the middle of single family homes. To do this they had to get approval to offer amenities to the future apartment residents. A meeting was held to hear the current residents and the OVERWHELMING OPINION was a loud and clear NO. The Amenity authority (after meeting one on one with the developer) voted to ignore the residents and give approximately 280 amenities to the developer. There is much more to that story but this is already long. Read any post on Hacienda Hills on this blog.

Look at Hacienda Hills Country Club on Google Earth to get an idea of the area. The developer owns all the country clubs. Ask your real estate agent if the CC near your home is guaranteed to be there in 5 years.

Bottom line –do your diligence. We all hope the developer shows some respect to the current residents and reverses course. It is the right thing to do.

Based on all of the things that have "disappeared" since I bought my lot and had my home built, I'd not count on anything being decided to make the lives of the resident's more enriched. Don't think that is the basis (quality of life, enriched lives and interests)upon which decisions are made. An affordable health club, affordable cable TV, an indoor swimming pool, private club with entertainment for residents (with "hints" of more to be built), even significant interest in an indoor roller skating rink with the ability to be reconfigured for a number of other activities and entertainments, have all been ideas that were highly supported by the community, but (seemingly ?) did not "make money, or enough money". Why should a community with this many residents make quality of life decisions more on profit than perhaps just "break even" if it makes for a higher quality of life. A town, a community, should NOT be a "business" IMO !

[jacksonbrown]

Why should a community with this many residents make quality of life decisions more on profit than perhaps just "break even" if it makes for a higher quality of life. A town, a community, should NOT be a "business" IMO !

Get ready for a barrage of opposing opinions.

For all who agree with you, visit here (https://v2pw.).

[M2inOR]

...Heck, the southern oaks just got hit with another bond for the continued development...

sportsguy

No, Southern Oaks did not get hit with another bond for the continued development.

We purchased a new home in Marsh Bend last August, and closed in September 2019. At closing, the prorated taxes were a few hundred dollars, and there was no bond payment due. We were told to expect an assessment in the summer of 2020, and we did.

A few weeks ago, Sumter County did send out two documents in separate mailings. The first was a letter confirming the bond amount for our neighborhood. There is a hearing this month that we were invited to attend if we had questions. Elsewhere, there is info explaining how the bond can be paid, via a lump sum, or with annual payments with your property taxes. A second letter was sent explaining the tax assessment for our home, that had two parts: the front side was for the various property taxes and home assessed value, and the back side showed what is due for the bond payment this year.

Bond assessment pays for the development/improvement investment for each new unit development. The amount varies for each unit, and has nothing to do with the size or home value. Everyone in the unit has the same bond assessment.

[stan the man]

Based on all of the things that have "disappeared" since I bought my lot and had my home built, I'd not count on anything being decided to make the lives of the resident's more enriched. Don't think that is the basis (quality of life, enriched lives and interests)upon which decisions are made. An affordable health club, affordable cable TV, an indoor swimming pool, private club with entertainment for residents (with "hints" of more to be built), even significant interest in an indoor roller skating rink with the ability to be reconfigured for a number of other activities and entertainments, have all been ideas that were highly supported by the community, but (seemingly ?) did not "make money, or enough money". Why should a community with this many residents make quality of life decisions more on profit than perhaps just "break even" if it makes for a higher quality of life. A town, a community, should NOT be a "business" IMO !

Plus the online reservation for golf, was free - no more

[GreySkies]

The residents were not uninformed. The residents are the lifeblood of the developers business.

This is where you lose absolutely ALL credibility since obviously you have never been in the residential construction industry.

The lifeblood to any developer is sustainable INCOME STREAMS, residents after purchasing property from the developer do not fit this category.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

yes, my mistake, the bond payments are actually now starting, and the notice was about the public hearing for starting the bond payments. (i thought that they had already started when I was typing, and didn't realize that the public notice hadn't already taken place)

so thanks for jumping on the mistake!
wouldn't want "fake news" out there!

sports guy

[CoachKandSportsguy]

yes, my mistake, the bond payments are actually now starting, and the notice was about the public hearing for starting the bond payments. (i didn't realize that the public notice hadn't already taken place) Last year, I had looked at the web site with the amortization rate, seen when the payments started, known that the bonds had already been floated, how much, etc, so the public notice was confusing. All my monthly bills, credit cards, etc are automated with pre-payments so I don't look at bills very often, every couple of months or so, so the public notice was out of the ordinary, but we didn't look any farther due to heavy work loads in our unfortunate not quite qualified for retirement status. . . blame it on no retired so not living on a fixed income

so thanks for jumping on the mistake!
wouldn't want "fake news" out there!

sports guy

[npwalters]

This is where you lose absolutely ALL credibility since obviously you have never been in the residential construction industry.

The lifeblood to any developer is sustainable INCOME STREAMS, residents after purchasing property from the developer do not fit this category.

When the current residents are disrespected and the developer says "I don't care what you think" that will definitely effect future income streams. That is particularly true when a major part of the appeal is the lifestyle. It will take a while but future buyers will be wary of buying here and they should be. That is why any smart corporation goes to great pains to keep good public relations.

The only part of your statement that is correct is I have never been in the residential construction industry. I'm assuming you were a framer or maybe a roofer.

[oldtimes]

When the current residents are disrespected and the developer says "I don't care what you think" that will definitely effect future income streams. That is particularly true when a major part of the appeal is the lifestyle. It will take a while but future buyers will be wary of buying here and they should be. That is why any smart corporation goes to great pains to keep good public relations.

The only part of your statement that is correct is I have never been in the residential construction industry. I'm assuming you were a framer or maybe a roofer.

I am sure you would like to believe this but the facts are that there are over 100,000 people here and most of those do not believe that their enjoyment of TV is coming to an end and it will not stop new people from coming in because they will never know what it was 20 years ago.

[John41]

I am sure you would like to believe this but the facts are that there are over 100,000 people here and most of those do not believe that their enjoyment of TV is coming to an end and it will not stop new people from coming in because they will never know what it was 20 years ago.

The facts are you have no clue what 100,000 residents think. These residents just handed the developer a wake up call tossing out his puppet commissioners by an overwhelming margin.

[vintageogauge]

The facts are you have no clue what 100,000 residents think. These residents just handed the developer a wake up call tossing out his puppet commissioners by an overwhelming margin.

They were tossed because of their actions and arrogance at public meetings while in office not because of their supposed ties with the developer. If you really want to know what residents think start a poll her " are you happy living in TV the way it is?" Answer yes or no only, then you will know.

[Polar Bear]

I am sure you would like to believe this but the facts are that there are over 100,000 people here and most of those do not believe that their enjoyment of TV is coming to an end...
The facts are you have no clue what 100,000 residents think...
I would guess that old times has at least as good a clue as anybody else. And from my little world of friends and acquaintances, I would also guess his “clue” is pretty accurate.

[npwalters]

I am sure you would like to believe this but the facts are that there are over 100,000 people here and most of those do not believe that their enjoyment of TV is coming to an end and it will not stop new people from coming in because they will never know what it was 20 years ago.

What I do know without a doubt is this: as long as current residents ignore an issue just because it isn't in their immediate neighborhood the developer can do whatever they please with no fear.

[JSR22]

I would guess that old times has at least as good a clue as anybody else. And from my little world of friends and acquaintances, I would also guess his “clue” is pretty accurate.

My fiends and neighbors are very happy here. There were a few things I was hoping would change and they have changed. Tne addition of really good restaurants has happened. BlueFin, ChopHouse, and Pucks are very good. Happy with the World of Wine and the Publix in Trailwinds. To me, TV gets better and better.

[oldtimes]

What I do know without a doubt is this: as long as current residents ignore an issue just because it isn't in their immediate neighborhood the developer can do whatever they please with no fear.

Yes he can and will. My point is he is within his rights to do it and some will not like it and others will. I have not been here long enough to know what Katie Belles used to be like nor do I care. New people coming in will see these apartments and think nothing of it.

[GreySkies]

When the current residents are disrespected and the developer says "I don't care what you think" that will definitely effect future income streams. That is particularly true when a major part of the appeal is the lifestyle. It will take a while but future buyers will be wary of buying here and they should be. That is why any smart corporation goes to great pains to keep good public relations.

The only part of your statement that is correct is I have never been in the residential construction industry. I'm assuming you were a framer or maybe a roofer.

Yep, ignorance is bliss, and I am sure you know exactly what they say when people "assume"... :1rotfl:

What you do know.. or think you know may be time- warped. I think the issue is that you have been “in the bubble” for FAR too long and have lost touch with reality. The developer can and will do whatever they want, whenever they want regardless of what a few hundred malcontent residents complain about.

Economics’ of scale closely at work within TV, for every crybaby resident who complains about a loss of the “original” TV lifestyle, there are 100+ future residents who will lay their money down in a heartbeat for what the developer is offering today AND tomorrow which includes the removal of Country Clubs that are no longer producing income for the developer and the expansion of high-density housing around TV, you see The developer is doing just fine, thank you.

For those who are in the market, this is EXACTLY what you want, a developer who is “developing”! Take a drive outside of the bubble and go west over to Citrus Hills and see how much developing they are doing over there. Lots of empty lots with overgrown vegetation means they have been sitting EMPTY for a while, yea makes me want to move in there right away.

A “grassroots movement” and a silly website used to get the developer to take notice and reverse changes that are in their best interest will never work, go ask the current residents at Margaritaville in Daytona why the developer said nope to phase 2 or those residents in Celebration, Orlando who thought their development was supposed remain “Disnyfied” forever.

[Jayhawk]

The facts are you have no clue what 100,000 residents think. These residents just handed the developer a wake up call tossing out his puppet commissioners by an overwhelming margin.

Residents of The Villages - 125,000 (approx.)

Registered users on TOTV - 109,226

Views of this thread - 15,200+ as of this morning

Number of responses - 128

Number of negative resident replies - under 50 (not counting same users with multiple repeats)

Percentage of negative posters out of those viewed - 0.003%

Percentage of negative posters out of TOTV registered users - 0.0004%

I'd say user oldtimes has a pretty good handle on things. Face it, the constant complainers are in the negative, and not just by a little bit.

I wish the unhappy few a good day (if you'd know how to recognize it).

:pray:

[npwalters]

Yes he can and will. My point is he is within his rights to do it and some will not like it and others will. I have not been here long enough to know what Katie Belles used to be like nor do I care. New people coming in will see these apartments and think nothing of it.

I wish we were only talking about the apartment at Katie Belles

[npwalters]

Residents of The Villages - 125,000 (approx.)

Registered users on TOTV - 109,226

Views of this thread - 15,200+ as of this morning

Number of responses - 128

Number of negative resident replies - under 50 (not counting same users with multiple repeats)

Percentage of negative posters out of those viewed - 0.003%

Percentage of negative posters out of TOTV registered users - 0.0004%

I'd say user oldtimes has a pretty good handle on things. Face it, the constant complainers are in the negative, and not just by a little bit.

I wish the unhappy few a good day (if you'd know how to recognize it).

:pray:

There will always be those that prefer to say on the sideline. Of those that did respond those and support my opinion - about half. Many folks won't be concerned unless and until it directly effect them -human nature. The percentage includes the 4 or 5 of you that can be counted on to defend the developer no matter what. I count you in that group.

[Jayhawk]

There will always be those that prefer to say on the sideline. Of those that did respond those and support my opinion - about half. Many folks won't be concerned unless and until it directly effect them -human nature. The percentage includes the 4 or 5 of you that can be counted on to defend the developer no matter what. I count you in that group.

Thank you very much. I'd hate to be thought of as a dusty old grumpy fart like several on here.

[Number 10 GI]

Apartments including the Lofts in Brownwood are not a good addition. Simply a vertical move by the Developer to increase density and make more profit.

Did you not ever change employment for a better paying job?

[Number 10 GI]

Based on all of the things that have "disappeared" since I bought my lot and had my home built, I'd not count on anything being decided to make the lives of the resident's more enriched. Don't think that is the basis (quality of life, enriched lives and interests)upon which decisions are made. An affordable health club, affordable cable TV, an indoor swimming pool, private club with entertainment for residents (with "hints" of more to be built), even significant interest in an indoor roller skating rink with the ability to be reconfigured for a number of other activities and entertainments, have all been ideas that were highly supported by the community, but (seemingly ?) did not "make money, or enough money". Why should a community with this many residents make quality of life decisions more on profit than perhaps just "break even" if it makes for a higher quality of life. A town, a community, should NOT be a "business" IMO !

What is the average of Villagers, some where in the mid to late 70"? Roller skating, right!
An indoor pool, why? How many days of the year can you not swim in an outdoor pool?

A private club, who do you not want to associate with?

The health clubs in TV aren't that expensive, actually quite reasonable for what you get.

A "break even" business? No such thing ever existed or ever will. Kinda like Unicorns.

Where is all this available? Maybe you should move there.

[Northwoods]

There will always be those that prefer to say on the sideline. Of those that did respond those and support my opinion - about half. Many folks won't be concerned unless and until it directly effect them -human nature. The percentage includes the 4 or 5 of you that can be counted on to defend the developer no matter what. I count you in that group.

We are very happy here.
I just can't imagine spending all my time and energy frustrated and angry. I don't want to spend my retirement years trying to rally a group to take on The Developer. I fought my battles when I worked. Now, I want to play golf and spend time with friends.
If I don't like what The Developer is planning on the land that they own, I will move. There are a lot of retirement communities. It would be an easy decision.

[Marathon Man]

OK. Here is what I don't understand.

Why do some people think that The Villages should different from any other place in America. Things change everywhere - apartments buildings go up, restaurants close, empty land that once provided a pretty view get built upon, golf courses close, empty buildings become eyesores. Be thankful that we don't have the last two. But the others things, and more, represent an evolving community. The world moves forward, taking the good, bad, and everything in between along with it.

[GreySkies]

We are very happy here.
I just can't imagine spending all my time and energy frustrated and angry. I don't want to spend my retirement years trying to rally a group to take on The Developer. I fought my battles when I worked. Now, I want to play golf and spend time with friends.
If I don't like what The Developer is planning on the land that they own, I will move. There are a lot of retirement communities. It would be an easy decision.

Probably the most accurate and direct response that demonstrates layers of sound common sense and years of developing intelligence gained by living AND enjoying life… well worded sir!

:bigbow: