Two "Christian" Men

[blueash]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.

[JSR22]

Real Christians calling a woman a c**t? I doubt it they should be ashamed of themselves.

[VApeople]

I am not a Christian but, having been raised in a mostly Christian nation, I have some knowledge of Christian culture and their religious symbols.

I get the impression that a fish is associated with the early Christian culture. I think it is in very poor taste to denigrate that symbol by inserting the word 'evolve', just like it is poor taste to put a cross in a bucket of urine and label it "Pizz Christ".

[Two Bills]

Since when have 'Christians' claimed a fish as a symbol?
What is the problem with the word evolve to 'Christians'?

[bluedivergirl]

Since when have 'Christians' claimed a fish as a symbol?
What is the problem with the word evolve to 'Christians'?

Since biblical times. Christ was a 'fisher of men', and the simple symbol identified Christians to one another when it was life-threatening to be Christian.

Ichthys - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys)

[Boomer]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.

Fake News


And there you have it, the predictable comment of those who either have lost the ability to recognize truth or just don’t want to hear it or are equipped to respond only with tedious snark rather than enter into an actual conversation. Too much of it these days in TV and everywhere else, too.

blueash has been around here forever. He writes well thought out posts for us, usually on important topics. His posts come from his ability to apply critical thinking skills. His credibility is impeccable.

His wife’s experience comes as no surprise to me. (I am trying to imagine what I would have done in her place. I know it would have not been pretty and it would have been LOUD. I am a nice lady, but. . .)

The tone of TV has changed tremendously during the past several years and that ugly tone is getting louder every day as angry, old, white guys feel empowered to strut and shout, foaming rabid and often traveling in packs.

I have no doubt in my mind that had that been a big man, or any man, returning to the cart, there would have been no confrontation.

Ah yes, life in the current day Villages.

Boomer

PS: Anybody read the book “Christ in Crisis: Why We Need To Reclaim Jesus”?

[coffeebean]

Since when have 'Christians' claimed a fish as a symbol?
What is the problem with the word evolve to 'Christians'?

Darwin's Theory of Evolution is in direct conflict with Christian belief of creationism.

[Two Bills]

Darwin's Theory of Evolution is in direct conflict with Christian belief of creationism.

Now I see.
So Ron Hubbard lied about the spaceships!:icon_wink:

[perrjojo]

:a040: It sounds to me as if those two Christian men need to evolve

[Dana1963]

Since when have 'Christians' claimed a fish as a symbol?
What is the problem with the word evolve to 'Christians'?
As with many so called Christian Symbols were actually taken from Pagans and also their holidays.

[EastCoastDawg]

A fish is a symbol used by Christians, but it does not mean that they own the rights to it.

Likewise a cross.

Crucifixion was used by the Persians over 500 years before Christ, so should Christians be shouted at for displaying a cross?

[Stu from NYC]

Sorry this happened to your wife.

[Arctic Fox]

These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

Jesus might have handled it differently.

[Topspinmo]

This what the world has become. Over sensitive to crap ������. I could care less what people display. Especially these political associations agenda graffiti.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm sorry Mrs. Blueash had to deal with that. As a member of the human race, I apologize on behalf of our species. I would suggest that perhaps these people who claim they are "christians" are from some sub-cult that thinks humans haven't ever evolved in the first place. That makes it hard for me to understand why they were in a supermarket parking lot at all. They should've been near their caves clubbing critters over their heads to take back to their womenfolk for dinner. Since, y'know, "evolving" is a bad thing to do if you're christian?

Whatever. I hope she brings a pickleball paddle painted to look like the body of a fish with her from now on - and if someone tries to vandalize her property because they are offended by her sticker - she can beat them over the head with their precious fish. Castle law, stand your ground, and all that, right?

[Kenswing]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.
If they were truly prohibiting her from leaving she should have called the police. Even if she felt the least bit threatened she should have called the police.

[manaboutown]

In the heat of such an outrageous assault one is challenged to think clearly and act fast. Too bad she could not have taken a video of what happened - with sound!

I like this one. Google Image Result for https://www.evolvefish.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/AutoEmblems/EF-EMB-P-00023.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0 (https://images.app.goo.gl/bpNEz9JS1dSMUzY1A)

and this one. Google Image Result for https://www.rof.com/assets/images/2145-pqmain.jpg (https://images.app.goo.gl/CZo7bn2vp5RDLiw16)

[EastCoastDawg]

Mrs Blueash is ignorant of current scientific research if she assumes evolution is a complete theory. Even Darwin admitted there were serious holes in his theory.

Darwin died in 1882. While evolution doesn't explain everything - little in science does as it is always evolving to account for new data - many of those "serious holes" have been filled in during the past 138 years.

If you want to believe that God created the World in six days then so be it, but there are a few "serious holes" with that theory too, and I don't see things improving there over the next 138 years.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Sorry this happened to your wife.

I’m just really glad that it wasn’t Mrs. KC; the rest of their day probably wouldn’t have gone very well.

[John41]

Darwin died in 1882. While evolution doesn't explain everything - little in science does as it is always evolving to account for new data - many of those "serious holes" have been filled in during the past 138 years.

If you want to believe that God created the World in six days then so be it, but there are a few "serious holes" with that theory too, and I don't see things improving there over the next 138 years.

The serious holes have been discovered much more recently than you are aware of. I suggest you look up holes in Darwin’s theory. As a brief summary Evolution is a very slow process. The rapid expansion of life and its diversity would require a much longer time than the earth has existed. Then there is the problem of atoms assembling to form the basic building blocks of life especially proteins. In turn these basic building must combine in the proper way. Finally what transforms non living compounds into living compounds. Some theories exist but no proof. Finally there is the issue of quantum theory which started in the early 1920s but today has completely upended the common sense notion some have of evolution. Currently it has been shown to mathematically approach 0 for life to have formed unless there is an external factor then the probability is one. There is no theory of what that external factor. I believe it is an intelligent force you can believe otherwise. But Albert Einstein believed in a God as did Issac Newton.

[Bikeracer2009]

99% of the people can be attacked like this and the perpetrators get to walk away. They're lucky they haven't done this to the 1%.

[EdFNJ]

99% of the people can be attacked like this and the perpetrators get to walk away. They're lucky they haven't done this to the 1%. Did you think the perps deserved to be shot for this act or that Mrs Blueash did the RIGHT THING by walking away and not looking for a confrontation that could have become worse ?

[John41]

Mocking a religion isn’t appropriate behavior. It is not only rude but potentially dangerous as you found out.

[andercat]

Darwin's Theory of Evolution is in direct conflict with Christian belief of creationism.

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 12 years. We were taught evolution in biology class. Catholics do not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Many Christian denominations have no problem with evolution.

[Halibut]

Sorry, Blueash.

I had a "Choose Wisely (https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-FgAAOSwofFbkRi7/s-l300.png)" Star Wars decal on my cart that some people seemed to interpret as a political statement. I've been asked (accosted?) twice in parking lots by women who seemed to believe it was saying something about abortion. I scraped it off after the second time, but can attest that some people do take an interest and feel free to butt in!

[JimJohnson]

We have volumes of data and other proof of Evolution, but Zero proof of religion. Consider the violence caused by religion over the centuries. Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

[joseppe]

Mocking a religion isn’t appropriate behavior. It is not only rude but potentially dangerous as you found out.

Yet each religion mocks other religions and those of no religion to a degree. Most christians seem to believe that christianity is the only religion and their God is the only God.

[JimJohnson]

7 plus Billion people on earth.
2 plus Billion Christians.

Does that mean God will send 5 plus Billion of his/her children to burn in hell for eternity? Really?

In my opinion, earth would be better off if everyone kept their religion private. Religious prejudice is no different than Racial prejudice.

[GOLFER54]

The whole thing sounds Fishy to me.

[Coal Miner]

Theres not a whole lot of difference between Christian radicals and Moslem radicals.

[camaguey48]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.
Sounded like it could have attracted some attention from passersby. No one around? At Publix parking lot? Hmmmm, Odd. Had it been two old black men from Nigeria, I would probably believe that tall tale. Nice little story.

[BryanTheGolfPro]

The "fish" symbol (ichthus) was actually a method--for safety reasons--that Christians in Rome used to identify each other. One person would draw one curved line in the dust with his foot; the other would draw the other curved line, thus identifying each other as Christians. Though wrong, this woman has her First Amendment right to express her opinion--and I defend her right to do so. These well-meaning men acted in an unChristian manner. Yes, they were offended. So what! "What would Jesus do?" What would Jesus, the Creator, Savior and Messiah do in this situation? Good question.

[Mikef99]

while this is no excuse for the behavior I think veryone is on edge witht he covid and roiting currently in the news. I would not limit it to men either, in a couple different situations women have been unnecessarily harsh to me and I have witnessed it to others. I wonder if the villages should no longer say friendly in association with this community?

or it goes back to each of us show this quality/consideration to all.....

[diane reynolds]

Christians generally do not believe in evolution.

[camaguey48]

If they were truly prohibiting her from leaving she should have called the police. Even if she felt the least bit threatened she should have called the police.
"They eventually allowed her to leave." That suggests that she was being held against her will. No witnesses, no pictures of the damaged sticker, nothing but a person's account of an incident without facts to support it. Just hearsay evidence from the hubby who wasn't even there. Cute.

[MandoMan]

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 12 years. We were taught evolution in biology class. Catholics do not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Many Christian denominations have no problem with evolution.

You are correct. According to the Vatican web site, it has been about fifty years since the Roman Catholic Church required members to believe in a literal seven-day creation. That’s a billion Christians right there. (They are also no longer obligated to believe in a literal resurrection of the dead in a physical body, or a literal second coming of Christ.) Most liberal Protestant churches, such as Methodists and Presbyterians and Congregationalists, also no longer have a seven-day creation week as a church doctrine.

There are a couple long scholarly articles I’ve written on the literary structure of Genesis 1 in this book:
Robot Check (https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-End-Looks-Biblical-Literature/dp/B088GGFJG9/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1599387954&sr=1-1)

I’m sorry your sticker was attacked. I guess it devolved into a fish. I see a lot of bumper stickers I don’t like, as do we all, but we don’t rip them off. I see bumper stickers as an important part of our right to free speech, even if I disagree. I’d much rather that people put bumper stickers on their cars than riot in the streets. (That said, there are some bumper stickers one might use that could lead to cars being seriously damaged by those who disagree or might lead to increased scrutiny by law enforcement. I think all bumper stickers are, at the least, tacky, but that’s a matter of taste.)

Here is how Wikipedia defines the fish symbol, and it seems to be correct:

ΙΧΘΥΣ (ichthys), or also ΙΧΘΥϹ with a lunate sigma, is an acronym or acrostic[7] for Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr; contemporary Koine, which translates into English as 'Jesus Christ, Son of God, [Our] Savior'.
Iota (i) is the first letter of Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς), Greek for "Jesus".
Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (Χριστός), Greek for "anointed" (of the Lord).
Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Θεοῦ), Greek for "God's", the genitive singular of Θεóς, Theos, Greek for "God".
Upsilon (y or u) is the first letter of (h)yios[8] (Yἱός), Greek for "Son".
Sigma (s) is the first letter of sōtēr (Σωτήρ), Greek for "Savior".

Of course, there is something fishy about that, given that icthys or icthus (same thing) literally means fish in Greek. It might be interesting to have a sticker with the word in the shape of a man and a fishing pole, indicating that one is a fisher of men, or the word in the shape of a fish and a fishing pole, indicating simply that one likes to fish.

[PennBF]

Of course the person had the right to brag that she was against some religions, specifically Christians. In doing so she should not be surprised there are consequences when you insult a person's religion. The fish in the original artist representation has a serious meaning to many Christians and is displayed on cars, etc. To mock it's meaning is an act which of course offends many practicing Christians. Do I agree the actions taken by a couple of persons who objected was appropriate of course not. Do I think the person who did this knew he/she were going to offend many people. Of course I do. The real shame in my opinion was the person purposely insulting many who believe in the biblical story of the fish and for what purpose were he/she doing that.?:ohdear:

[billyb1950]

i am not a christian but, having been raised in a mostly christian nation, i have some knowledge of christian culture and their religious symbols.

I get the impression that a fish is associated with the early christian culture. I think it is in very poor taste to denigrate that symbol by inserting the word 'evolve', just like it is poor taste to put a cross in a bucket of urine and label it "pizz christ".

amen

[billyb1950]

"They eventually allowed her to leave." That suggests that she was being held against her will. No witnesses, no pictures of the damaged sticker, nothing but a person's account of an incident without facts to support it. Just hearsay evidence from the hubby who wasn't even there. Cute.

Maybe the men were standing behind her cart and she was unable to back up without running them over. You're implying way too much with your caustic remarks. Actually, you hint she and her husband are liars. :ohdear: To borrow a word: Cute.

[Pamelah]

Of course the person had the right to brag that she was against some religions, specifically Christians. In doing so she should not be surprised there are consequences when you insult a person's religion. The fish in the original artist representation has a serious meaning to many Christians and is displayed on cars, etc. To mock it's meaning is an act which of course offends many practicing Christians. Do I agree the actions taken by a couple of persons who objected was appropriate of course not. Do I think the person who did this knew he/she were going to offend many people. Of course I do. The real shame in my opinion was the person purposely insulting many who believe in the biblical story of the fish and for what purpose were he/she doing that.?:ohdear:
If this person knew she might offend some with this symbol, is not this exactly the same for people with white crosses in their yard or Trump signs? Yes

[claylayer]

I'm so sorry this happened.

[JimJohnson]

Most religions have a golden rule list. It is predominantly Christians and Muslims that kill to support their beliefs. Mohammad would be OK with killing in his name. Jesus would not! Yet, Christians are every bit as violent as Muslims.
:ohdear:

[ismatta]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.

Clearly these men had no knowledge of the teachings of Christ. They are the ones defiling Christianity. BTW, we have freedom of speech. They are no more Christian then our temporary leader.

[DanBrew]

There is no room in the Christian faith for hate. Note I said faith and not religion. I suspect these two were "religious" Christians. God is love and He sent his son here to redeem us all. I pray these two will fill their hearts with the love of our father in heaven thus making no room in their own hearts for such hateful actions.

[Judy n Ron]

We are amazed at how many have to advertise their every belief with political signs, bumper stickers etc. We enjoy the serenity of our own religious beliefs and who we will vote for. Very few know our religion or political leanings. Does anyone believe by displaying a political or religious symbol that someone will be converted to their belief system? Fly your flag and keep personal opinions in the house for a kinder community. Ron

[Eg_cruz]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.
The hate in this country is beyond sad
As a US citizen you should be able to stickers on your car / cart without being harassed.
I get when the sticker are truly offensive with bad language in crude pictures is a different story. A little sticker about her believes. Those two so call Sunday Christians (sin all week and ask forgiveness on Sunday) maybe need to go to church on Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays

[jbrown132]

And there you have it, the predictable comment of those who either have lost the ability to recognize truth or just don’t want to hear it or are equipped to respond only with tedious snark rather than enter into an actual conversation. Too much of it these days in TV and everywhere else, too.

blueash has been around here forever. He writes well thought out posts for us, usually on important topics. His posts come from his ability to apply critical thinking skills. His credibility is impeccable.

His wife’s experience comes as no surprise to me. (I am trying to imagine what I would have done in her place. I know it would have not been pretty and it would have been LOUD. I am a nice lady, but. . .)

The tone of TV has changed tremendously during the past several years and that ugly tone is getting louder every day as angry, old, white guys feel empowered to strut and shout, foaming rabid and often traveling in packs.

I have no doubt in my mind that had that been a big man, or any man, returning to the cart, there would have been no confrontation.

Ah yes, life in the current day Villages.

Boomer

PS: Anybody read the book “Christ in Crisis: Why We Need To Reclaim Jesus”?

Florida’s Friendliest Home Town

[Lindsyburnsy]

Not believing in science is doing a lot of harm to the world. If you believe in God, then you know he created man and some went on to become artists, geologists, doctors and scientists. You can believe in science and still be a Christian. BTW, scientists created that blood pressure pill that you take.

[Eg_cruz]

Of course the person had the right to brag that she was against some religions, specifically Christians. In doing so she should not be surprised there are consequences when you insult a person's religion. The fish in the original artist representation has a serious meaning to many Christians and is displayed on cars, etc. To mock it's meaning is an act which of course offends many practicing Christians. Do I agree the actions taken by a couple of persons who objected was appropriate of course not. Do I think the person who did this knew he/she were going to offend many people. Of course I do. The real shame in my opinion was the person purposely insulting many who believe in the biblical story of the fish and for what purpose were he/she doing that.?:ohdear:
WOW........smh
She should expect consequences wow just wow
Haters going to hate

[terenceanne]

Arguing, fighting and killing over religion has been going on thousands of years - no sign of it ending any time soon.

[Kerry Azz]

I Guess I’m from a different type of family, 2 men? And in a parking lot that would never have happened with me there. No man would pull a stunt like that and get away with it!

[FromNY]

Wonder if they would speak to their wives, daughtets,,other females like that. And defacing personal property??? That would have been a call to the Sheriff.

[JanetMM]

Mocking a religion isn’t appropriate behavior. It is not only rude but potentially dangerous as you found out.

I don’t think that is mocking. Some Christians DO believe in evolution. God-directed evolution. The EVOLVE fish actually is / can be a Christian symbol. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

[diva1]

Whatever happened to MYOB? Would have worked well here, and pretty much everywhere.

[Fairtoall]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.



I think you are asking for trouble by putting anything you believe on your shirt or car. There are always a few idiots out there that are just looking for confrontation for the self aggrandizement of it which never fits the definition of what they claim to be. They just love the confrontation and somehow they find each other and stupidly support one another. Unless you like confrontation yourself by reminding people that they are wrong; don't do it. Yeah I know about freedom of speech. They just reminded you of theirs. More killings over religion in the history of this world than anything else.

[Villagesgal]

Carry a whistle in your cart. If confronted and or intimidated by anyone who will not back off and leave you alone, blow the whistle as loud as you can and continuously to get the attention of others to help you. If nothing else, this should make the aggressors leave. I have done this and it works. So sorry this happened to you.

[jwittig@live.com]

Not sure what the point is here. If it's to try and show that all Christians are hypocrites based on the actions of these two men then I think that's pretty small minded. Anyone can call themselves a Christian and there are many hypocrites in Christianity as there are in all walks of life.

"Do not judge and you will not be judged" are the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:1. I think we can all take a lesson from that.

[Greg L]

IMO we have 2 more generations to go before the "humanists" such as myself are finally in the majority.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Darwin's Theory of Evolution is in direct conflict with Christian belief of creationism.

If you believe that God is capable of all things and that we are not capable of understanding what God can understand, then the two ideas are not necessarily in conflict.

We know that God sometimes put things into words so that we can understand them. Some of The Bible stories are not meant to be taken literally. Sometimes there is conflicting information in The Bible. In some cases it is because at one time that is all that men were able to understand. Later we as we became more intelligent, things might be explained differently.

With God, nothing is impossible. Even those things that seem to be impossible to us.

[kendi]

Since when have 'Christians' claimed a fish as a symbol?
What is the problem with the word evolve to 'Christians'?

The Christian Fish, also called the Jesus Fish or Ichthys, was a secret symbol (due to persecutions) of early Christianity. The Ichthys or fish symbol was used by early Christians to identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ and to express their affinity to Christianity. And it is still used today in many churches. Some have it carved into the alter.

[moe1212]

"love thy neighbor" is Christina belief / they can call themselves whatever they want but they are not Christians

[Villagesbound]

As a Christian I want to say I am very sorry that your wife was treated in a vulgar and disrespectful way. A Christian would never treat a woman like that. Jesus taught us in word and actions to love our neighbors. Even if they thought she was a enemy of Christianity again Jesus commanded us to love our enemies. I hope this does not leave you feeling that this is how Christians act. I hope if these 2 men see this post that they will repent and make better choices in the future. I do not exactly get the symbol you have. Is it saying something about evolution or is it saying to evolve from Christian beliefs to something else? Just asking because I am curious. You have every right to have whatever you want on your cart but I do want to tell you the fish symbol is an important symbol in Christianity. Anyway, sorry this was your example of Christian but I want you to know we are all not like this and again I am sorry this happened to you.

[DecaturFargo]

Reclaim Jesus? How about reclaiming decency! Never heard so many "Christian" men calling women nasty names as I have here in The Villages. I experienced a similar rant from multiple white men who feel entitled just because they don't like who I support for the next leader of our country.

[Ralpha]

I’m sorry for your experience and your sign could have many different meanings. To think those two despicable men call themselves Christians is blasphemous. In my opinion, they are no more Christians than the man in the moon.

[jonathanb]

So the fish was used in the early church when Christians were being persecuted by Rome. It was used as a symbol to let other Christians know where they were meeting. As far as the unfortunate circumstance. Jesus said many will say Lord we did this for you and that for you and He will say to them get away from me I NEVER KNEW YOU. If this really did happen I would venture to say a TRUE CHRISTIAN PERSON WOULD NEVER SAY THAT. They might think they are Christians but most likely are not.

[cheweycat]

Thank you for your sane comment. With all the troubling things going on in the world, this Commentary is just stupid!

[akerwin1909]

In this day and age it can be dangerous to even allow those kind of degenerates to get close to us. Please tell your wife if anybody gets close enough to assault her in anyway, she needs to walk or run back into the store and have the manager call the police. We don't have to put up with that for any reason!
Creeps look for a reason to vent their craziness. Best to steer clear...

[Bikeracer2009]

Did you think the perps deserved to be shot for this act or that Mrs Blueash did the RIGHT THING by walking away and not looking for a confrontation that could have become worse ?

People who grew up in middle class America probably didn't see street violence on a daily basis. How dangerous it is to even look a someone the wrong way can lead to being beaten, stabbed or shot. The prisons are full of violent men and women, where do you think they were before they landed in prison?

Also, how do think road rage and other angry conflicts end up with someone dead and someone going to prison?

It's easy to see who doesn't want to fight you in most situations so they didn't think much of it when they engaged in their attack of this woman. You never know though. An elderly man killed a road raging young man with a compound bow years ago. I bet he didn't see that coming.

Point being, you pick a fight with the wrong stranger and you may get someone that doesn't back down, it quickly escalates, a gun comes out and you can see how this ends.

99% of people probably probably won't let it escalate.

To answer your question, did they deserve to be shot? Nope. If however, they didn't like an aggressive response and squared up, flexed on them and got in a person's face would THEY try to deescalate what they started? Most likely not. At which point they may be fighting a person who is mentally unstable to begin with, violent and willing to shoot someone.

[blueash]

Thank you to the decent people who said versions of "sorry this happened". And then there are those who accuse me of lying or in the words of the main stream media "fake news". It happened exactly as I wrote it. Mrs Blueash was very shaken and is not a liar. She had difficulty falling asleep last night and is not yet herself today.

richs631
Don’t believe everything that one posts. By the way, every square inch of that lot is covered by cameras

To that specific wrong post.. Here is the phone number of Publix in Southern Trace: 352-751-6280 Call them and ask if "every square inch" is covered by cameras. The answer I received, and I suspect you will receive, is that there is no camera coverage of the outside except for the ATM. Don't accuse me of lying. And have the honesty yourself to come back and report on your phone call.

To those who insist it could not have happened.. I suppose your response might be that such actions are so offensive no person would ever do such a thing, but I don't think that is why you posted that thought. I present as demanded by one of you a photo of the damaged EVOLVE sticker. Of course you can now claim I ripped it up myself, just happened to have an old one and thought I'd construct a tale about it. Or admit the event happened.

To those of you who say.. but those men who called your wife an "ignorant c*nt" and attacked your property, waited by the cart to verbally assault her and made her feel very threatened don't represent real Christians and don't speak for the faith.. I agree with you. And I hope the next time there is a Muslim who acts violently or speaks violently you will apply the same filter and see that that person does not represent the Muslim faith even if that person claims his acts are defending his faith.

[greenflash245]

911

[coffeebean]

As with many so called Christian Symbols were actually taken from Pagans and also their holidays.

Holidays are not the only traditions/beliefs lifted by Christians from the Pagans. Virgin birth is also a Pagan belief which pre-dates the Christians belief of the Virgin Mary. In fact, there are many religions which believe in virgin birth. Seems all these religions copy each other with their beliefs.

[coffeebean]

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 12 years. We were taught evolution in biology class. Catholics do not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Many Christian denominations have no problem with evolution.

Honestly? It is my impression devout Christians do not believe in evolution. I just learned something today. Thank you.

[coffeebean]

Yet each religion mocks other religions and those of no religion to a degree. Most christians seem to believe that christianity is the only religion and their God is the only God.

There are lots of Gods. Just pick one. Ever wonder if you picked the right one? LOL.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I have never understood why someone puts a religious or political sticker on there car especially these day. Yes it’s your right but 1 it never changed anyone’s mind and 2 as we see here it opens you up to ridicule and vandalism

[kanoa1kale2]

[QUOTE=Boomer;1828619]

The tone of TV has changed tremendously during the past several years and that ugly tone is getting louder every day as angry, old, white guys feel empowered to strut and shout, foaming rabid and often traveling in packs.

You obviously missed the cart parade with the uncouth lady from Connecticut spewing an unending stream of profanity from her mouth. Insanity knows no bounds these days.

[JimJohnson]

Not sure what the point is here. If it's to try and show that all Christians are hypocrites based on the actions of these two men then I think that's pretty small minded. Anyone can call themselves a Christian and there are many hypocrites in Christianity as there are in all walks of life.

"Do not judge and you will not be judged" are the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:1. I think we can all take a lesson from that.

I think the point is to give you the opportunity to give your opinion as the this type of despicable activity by any religious sect. Whether it happened or not is immaterial. We all know this type of discrimination happens and if it is from a Christian to an Atheist or from an Atheist directed at a Christian, it wrong. But (in my opinion), when discrimination is directed at any other faith from a Christian, it is very hypocritical.

[blueash]

Posted by PennBF
Of course the person had the right to brag that she was against some religions, specifically Christians. In doing so she should not be surprised there are consequences when you insult a person's religion. The fish in the original artist representation has a serious meaning to many Christians and is displayed on cars, etc. To mock it's meaning is an act which of course offends many practicing Christians. Do I agree the actions taken by a couple of persons who objected was appropriate of course not. Do I think the person who did this knew he/she were going to offend many people. Of course I do. The real shame in my opinion was the person purposely insulting many who believe in the biblical story of the fish and for what purpose were he/she doing that.?

As I understand, or perhaps misunderstand, your posting...Where do you get the idea that the sticker is bragging about being against Christians? You're suggesting expressing an opinion that science should be taught in the schools without teaching a faith based story that contradicts the established science is a slap at Christians and they should feel offended. I don't want religion taught in a science class.. which is the entire point of the sticker. But apparently "many practicing Christians" are offended by that, who knew? To those of you who have crosses around your necks and in your yards proclaiming your belief, should non-Christians be offended and feel that their faith or non-faith is being mocked or ridiculed? Your post is excusing their behavior.. you are trying to explain it away by saying their fish story was being attacked and that was just too much although they went too far in their expression of righteous outrage. Apparently you should expect consequences if someone feels their faith is being attacked by the infidels. And your take home is that the shame in this event is not that two men accosted Mrs Blueash in defense of their perversion of Christianity, but that Mrs Blueash should have expected to be exposed to the consequences of her act.

There is a term "Christian Taliban" Those two men whether they know it are not, are acting in concert with the Christian Taliban. Defending the faith against fish feet.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by andercat View Post
I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 12 years. We were taught evolution in biology class. Catholics do not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Many Christian denominations have no problem with evolution.


US TOO. There is a big difference between Christian interpretations. And I would imagine that is true of all Faiths. The first time in my life I ran into criticism of my Catholicism was when I moved here. Our church would always have interfaith soup suppers during Lent. I always thought everybody got along.

[Emmakrock@yahoo.com]

Why do you think they are Christians..?The ones I know wouldn’t use that language.Christian means follower of Christ and they sure didn’t.

[andercat]

Christians generally do not believe in evolution.

Most Evangelical Christians support creationism. Most other mainline Protestants denominations and Catholics do not oppose evolution. If your denomination has a literal interpretation of the bible you most likely will not accept evolution. If your denomination (which includes far more than Evangelicals) does not have a literal interpretation of the bible evolution is acceptable.

[walterray1]

Thank you to the decent people who said versions of "sorry this happened". And then there are those who accuse me of lying or in the words of the main stream media "fake news". It happened exactly as I wrote it. Mrs Blueash was very shaken and is not a liar. She had difficulty falling asleep last night and is not yet herself today.



To that specific wrong post.. Here is the phone number of Publix in Southern Trace: 352-751-6280 Call them and ask if "every square inch" is covered by cameras. The answer I received, and I suspect you will receive, is that there is no camera coverage of the outside except for the ATM. Don't accuse me of lying. And have the honesty yourself to come back and report on your phone call.

To those who insist it could not have happened.. I suppose your response might be that such actions are so offensive no person would ever do such a thing, but I don't think that is why you posted that thought. I present as demanded by one of you a photo of the damaged EVOLVE sticker. Of course you can now claim I ripped it up myself, just happened to have an old one and thought I'd construct a tale about it. Or admit the event happened.

To those of you who say.. but those men who called your wife an "ignorant c*nt" and attacked your property, waited by the cart to verbally assault her and made her feel very threatened don't represent real Christians and don't speak for the faith.. I agree with you. And I hope the next time there is a Muslim who acts violently or speaks violently you will apply the same filter and see that that person does not represent the Muslim faith even if that person claims his acts are defending his faith.

the reason you would have that sticker on your golf cart to begin with. Is it to profess your beliefs to others? Is it to provoke a response? What happened to your wife is plain wrong no matter where one is on the religion spectrum. However, it might be a good idea to reconsider the choices one makes when sharing more than is needed. Free speech does come with a cost at times and one should be aware of it.

[graciegirl]

And there you have it, the predictable comment of those who either have lost the ability to recognize truth or just don’t want to hear it or are equipped to respond only with tedious snark rather than enter into an actual conversation. Too much of it these days in TV and everywhere else, too.

blueash has been around here forever. He writes well thought out posts for us, usually on important topics. His posts come from his ability to apply critical thinking skills. His credibility is impeccable.

His wife’s experience comes as no surprise to me. (I am trying to imagine what I would have done in her place. I know it would have not been pretty and it would have been LOUD. I am a nice lady, but. . .)

The tone of TV has changed tremendously during the past several years and that ugly tone is getting louder every day as angry, old, white guys feel empowered to strut and shout, foaming rabid and often traveling in packs.

I have no doubt in my mind that had that been a big man, or any man, returning to the cart, there would have been no confrontation.

Ah yes, life in the current day Villages.

Boomer

PS: Anybody read the book “Christ in Crisis: Why We Need To Reclaim Jesus”?

I disagree with just about everything you said on this post except about Blueash being impeccably credible when it comes to science and medicine. He is a bit biased in his other views as we all are. BUT.... I have lived here for more than a dozen years and no one has been rude to me. I have had subtle disdain for my subtle Catholicism from some people who are very dear to me and are Southern Baptists.

I remember a thread by Blueash that showed a devil statue being installed in a public place near a cross in Oklahoma. I suspected it was a way to get us talking because I thought he was an agnostic.

I don't like people to rile up others when it comes to their religion UNLESS the tenets of their religion are to harm or kill non believers and THAT is very radical and pretty unusual although as we approach the anniversary of 9/11 we have lived through a lot of people being killed by radical religious people.

People should have minded their own business and not commented on this symbol that I don't recognize. And I think he is exaggerating a little saying that some "old guys" called a strange lady a C*NT in a parking lot in The Villages.

I am skeptical. We are all getting a bit over the top with all this quarantining and fussing and burning businesses and stuff. Some of us just want to argue and start things.

[Trishakaye]

Darwin's Theory of Evolution is in direct conflict with Christian belief of creationism.

True but a Christian -especially a man speaking to a woman- would NEVER use that disgusting language.

TV is starting to “evolve” like the rest of our country.

[John41]

We have volumes of data and other proof of Evolution, but Zero proof of religion. Consider the violence caused by religion over the centuries. Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Your last science class must have been 50 years ago.
You are very out of date on the current scientific theories of how life formed.

[justjim]

Darwin's Theory of Evolution is in direct conflict with Christian belief of creationism.

There are many bible scholars who would disagree and they find “room” for evolution and the Bible story. If I had been there, I would’ve had a word with these ignorant, rude and obnoxious men. They certainly made fools of themselves.

[Byte1]

Most Evangelical Christians support creationism. Most other mainline Protestants denominations and Catholics do not oppose evolution. If your denomination has a literal interpretation of the bible you most likely will not accept evolution. If your denomination (which includes far more than Evangelicals) does not have a literal interpretation of the bible evolution is acceptable.

No one that believes in the Bible as the Word of GOD believes in evolution. There is NO inference of evolution in the Bible.
Catholics believe in CREATION, not evolution. If evolution was taught in their schools, it was Darwin's theory of Evolution, as an example not as a fact.
I have studied many different Bible believing religions and they ALL believe in Creation.

Interviewing several scientists and archeologists, I have never found one that could prove Evolution. I have found several that have said that the Bible is a historically accurate document that is reinforced by scientific evidence. They also seem to agree that the ONLY evolution if any is man made. True evolution is natural and the lack of evidence suggests that Darwin only had a theory. By the way, Darwin himself is reported to have recanted his theory in his later days.

[John41]

If you believe that God is capable of all things and that we are not capable of understanding what God can understand, then the two ideas are not necessarily in conflict.

We know that God sometimes put things into words so that we can understand them. Some of The Bible stories are not meant to be taken literally. Sometimes there is conflicting information in The Bible. In some cases it is because at one time that is all that men were able to understand. Later we as we became more intelligent, things might be explained differently.

With God, nothing is impossible. Even those things that seem to be impossible to us.

Very sensible post. I’m appalled at how atheists can be so sure of their “religion” when two of the greatest scientists Einstein and Newton believed in a God. I can understand the agnostic view but atheism is simply another dogma and it’s adherents are as intolerant as other religions can be.

[Topspinmo]

Theres not a whole lot of difference between Christian radicals and Moslem radicals.


Depends on which century you was born in?

[Taltarzac725]

What Does the Bible Say About Tolerance? (https://www.openbible.info/topics/tolerance)

This is worth a look.

[Pdesensi]

That why I don’t make any of my beliefs or opinions public. So many ignorant, mean people in out world.

[Davonu]

No one that believes in the Bible as the Word of GOD believes in evolution...
It's hard to seriously consider the rest of your post when your first sentence is so absolutely wrong.

[coffeebean]

No one that believes in the Bible as the Word of GOD believes in evolution. There is NO inference of evolution in the Bible.
Catholics believe in CREATION, not evolution. If evolution was taught in their schools, it was Darwin's theory of Evolution, as an example not as a fact.
I have studied many different Bible believing religions and they ALL believe in Creation.

Interviewing several scientists and archeologists, I have never found one that could prove Evolution. I have found several that have said that the Bible is a historically accurate document that is reinforced by scientific evidence. They also seem to agree that the ONLY evolution if any is man made. True evolution is natural and the lack of evidence suggests that Darwin only had a theory. By the way, Darwin himself is reported to have recanted his theory in his later days.

What about this finding? ...........
One of Darwin's evolution theories finally proved -- ScienceDaily (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317215626.htm)

[Neils]

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 12 years. We were taught evolution in biology class. Catholics do not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Many Christian denominations have no problem with evolution.

Catholics that do not believe in the bible are not listening to their Pope either. Not sure why they call themselves Catholics.

[Topspinmo]

I don’t think that is mocking. Some Christians DO believe in evolution. God-directed evolution. The EVOLVE fish actually is / can be a Christian symbol. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Depends on what nomination. Main liner’s are radical?

[Topspinmo]

The hate in this country is beyond sad
As a US citizen you should be able to stickers on your car / cart without being harassed.
I get when the sticker are truly offensive with bad language in crude pictures is a different story. A little sticker about her believes. Those two so call Sunday Christians (sin all week and ask forgiveness on Sunday) maybe need to go to church on Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays

All they got to do it repent their sins and they get clean slate, some religions expect you to Go 3 or 4 times week with offering and confessions, so you’re good to go for couple days.

[Curtisbwp]

Those two men (i do NOT mention race, it is of no importance to youe experience) are Not Christians. This is Satans domain. Stay close to GOD in all ways and you shall be protected.

[airstreamingypsy]

I had a "Dog is my Co-Pilot" sticker on the back of my truck, and was accosted similarly in a Home Depot parking lot. I have no doubt every word of this post is true. I think the world would be a better place if there was no religion at all.

[jimjamuser]

Mocking a religion isn’t appropriate behavior. It is not only rude but potentially dangerous as you found out.
Sad post. Complete with a threat. Would Jesus make a threat in this situation?????

[Topspinmo]

I had a "Dog is my Co-Pilot" sticker on the back of my truck, and was accosted similarly in a Home Depot parking lot. I have no doubt every word of this post is true. I think the world would be a better place if there was no religion at all.


Dog hating syndrome. There lot of them out there.

[Topspinmo]

Sad post. Complete with a threat. Would Jesus make a threat in this situation?????

No, but the storyteller’s that wrote it down might?

[Byte1]

What about this finding? ...........
One of Darwin's evolution theories finally proved -- ScienceDaily (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317215626.htm)

Actually, that does not disprove Creation. And when I asked REAL scientists about the fossils of creatures that look "similar" to today's creatures but we no longer see, they all respond that today's species are in fossils also and that the other "older" creatures we no longer see have died out.
"Evolution is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations. These characteristics are the expressions of genes that are passed on from parent to offspring during reproduction."
I believe that I did indicate that there is such a thing as man made evolution or species changing by inter species copulation, such as indicated by Mules. This is not natural evolution. There is NO evidence of man once being a fish or a lizard, or even an ape. If you look at fossils of butterflies from thousands of years ago, they are the same as today. The same goes for other species.
My point is not to argue the validity of Creation over Evolution, but to dispute the fact that any Bible believing religion would discount Creation. The very beginning of the Bible it says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth..." How could anyone believe that and then turn around and state that they do not believe in Creation?
I often wonder how anyone that believes in evolution cannot see how ludicrous it is when man's violence has not EVER evolved, and is the same vicious cycle as it was in the beginning of time.
But, as others on here, I digress. The baited subject on here was about the big meanie "older white men" Christians.
I would like to say thank goodness that those two men were not black, because then we would not be having this conversation. No one would be complaining about "old black men" Christians in today's sensitive time.

My spouse and I shop at that Publix all the time and have had nothing but good experiences. And unless you could prove that those to "older white men" were from the Villages, I would suggest that grouping all of us "older white men" together is a blatant miscarriage of justice...:pray: My experiences with the Villages "older white men" and older white women has almost always been positive and friendly. Of course, I do not frequent any bars. I have noticed that there are those that are always looking for something negative to say about the Villages or it's Villages people. I don't take it seriously, since generally speaking this place is much better than anywhere else I have lived in America.
Also thank goodness that most other threads in forums of the TOTV are of positive nature.

[graciegirl]

I am posting this general information from Bing. So you can read whatever it is you agree or disagree with. This is not meant to be "rude". OBB.

I have always accepted Evolution and find no quarrel with religion in it at all. If God is, He is all knowledge. I think the Bible was written for early peoples and I think tradition continues to guide people. I have always thought someone started all this and it had to be a big, huge, smart, powerful someone and that people over time saw the creator in a trillion different ways. I like the ones who see Him as good and caring. I have no problem with thinking about Him as a He. I know so many good men who have touches of Godlike qualities.


what is the fish symbol with the word evolve? - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=what+is+the+fish+symbol+with+the+word+evo lve%3F&cvid=d7a508596b904f999e6a80f5972019e2&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

[Byte1]

The fish symbol was used by early Christians as a signal or "password" so to speak when gathering together under threat of prosecution. One individual meeting another that said they were a believer, would make the first line of the fish and the other would finish the symbol as a form of password or proof that they belonged.
Justifying the "evolution" mutation of the Christian symbol is lame. It is a perversion of the symbol, similar to those that display the cross turned upside down. Both are just an attempt to intimidate those that non-believers fear, Christians. Real Christians do not become violent over something so childish. If those gentlemen were Christians (did they really say they were?) then would not have been so intolerant. Disagreement is just another sign of our humanity. Destruction of property or vandalism are criminal acts.

If this is a true story, I see no value in complaining about it. In stead of complaining to us, like we are to blame, the authorities (Social Services?) should have been contacted and a complaint made.
Being "old" is not a crime
Being "white" is not a crime
Being a "Christian" is not a crime.
Being destructive IS a crime.

[P&WBryant]

Great, great book!

[doodles]

They must be “Sunday Christians” A real Christian would not talk to a lady like that

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=Boomer;1828619]

The tone of TV has changed tremendously during the past several years and that ugly tone is getting louder every day as angry, old, white guys feel empowered to strut and shout, foaming rabid and often traveling in packs.

You obviously missed the cart parade with the uncouth lady from Connecticut spewing an unending stream of profanity from her mouth. Insanity knows no bounds these days.

Really????
I've lived here 7 years and have yet to see a pack of rabid, angry, old white men. Do they only come out at night or on holidays? Are they invisible? Or are they a figment of your imagination???????

[jklfairwin]

Not if you read Genesis as metaphor rather than totally literal.

[Taltarzac725]

Home Study Course About the Modern Science of Evolution | The Great Courses Plus (https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/what-darwin-didnt-know-the-modern-science-of-evolution)

Have not looked at this myself. YET! But it looks very interesting. My majors in college were Philosophy and History and I took many courses on the Philosophy and/or History of Science. Evolution came up rather often as did the limitations of the scientific method. I minored in Religious Studies. This was at the University of Nevada, Reno. (UNR).

Some of these professors were also teaching judges at the National Judicial College which is on the UNR campus.

Home | The National Judicial College | NJC (https://www.judges.org/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIntS9pv7U6wIVCgCGCh1_cA1mEAAYASA AEgLS4fD_BwE)

[bumpygreens]

What about this finding? ...........
One of Darwin's evolution theories finally proved -- ScienceDaily (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317215626.htm)

The article seems to support natural selection rather than evolution. It cites sub-species (or varieties) of foxes and giraffes, but gives no evidence how an entirely new species could evolve from any of the sub-species. You could just as easily claim that the article supports creationism in its definition of a species as a group of animals that can freely interbreed among themselves. (The Bible uses the word "kind", not "species".) Genetic mutations aren't proof of evolution on their own. A genetic mutation that produces an increase in the genome would go a long way in support of evolution, but so far we have only seen mutations that result in a decrease of genetic material.

[villageidiot1]

For those of you who don't believe in God, In my opinion you are seeing the results of that every day and it's getting much worse. We have
kicked God out of Schools, Government and trying everywhere else. And as it's my opinion, I thing you're not going to believe where
we end up. But for those of us who choose to believe, we also know where were going to end up.

[bumpygreens]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.

That symbol was developed by atheists as an intentional affront to christian beliefs. They could have chosen a number of other ways to get their point across, but they intentionally chose a Christian symbol. It doesn't excuse the two men in the parking lot. Spending an hour in church on Sunday doesn't make one a Christian anymore than spending an hour in a garage would make him into a car. They may call themselves Christian, but in reality they are merely practicing a form of superstition. Kind of like having that symbol on your golf cart, and a quote from The Bible in your signature line. The dichotomy is convincingly confusing.

[foxmeadow]

Oh great, now We’re going to see fish symbols in the yards......humor.

[Taltarzac725]

Oh great, now We’re going to see fish symbols in the yards......humor.

Doubt if the Roman Emperors knew about this fish symbol at least not around the time during Jesus Christ and just after that.

Jesus and Caesar (https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tools/ask-a-scholar/jesus-and-caesar)

[Schaumburger]

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 12 years. We were taught evolution in biology class. Catholics do not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Many Christian denominations have no problem with evolution.

Well said. Exactly as I was taught in Catholic high school in the 1970's. The Earth being created in six 24 hour days...really? Six days is symbolic for the Earth being created over billions of years.

And I am sorry Mrs. Blueash encountered these people...Christians they are most certainly not.

[Schaumburger]

Christians generally do not believe in evolution.

I would say most people in my denomination (Episcopal) believe in Evolution. God started the whole process billions of years ago...that is what I believe. The Bible was never meant to be a science textbook...this is from a Roman Catholic priest who taught at my high school in the 1970's.

[Schaumburger]

"love thy neighbor" is Christina belief / they can call themselves whatever they want but they are not Christians

Agree 100%.

[Schaumburger]

No one that believes in the Bible as the Word of GOD believes in evolution. There is NO inference of evolution in the Bible.
Catholics believe in CREATION, not evolution. If evolution was taught in their schools, it was Darwin's theory of Evolution, as an example not as a fact.
I have studied many different Bible believing religions and they ALL believe in Creation.

Interviewing several scientists and archeologists, I have never found one that could prove Evolution. I have found several that have said that the Bible is a historically accurate document that is reinforced by scientific evidence. They also seem to agree that the ONLY evolution if any is man made. True evolution is natural and the lack of evidence suggests that Darwin only had a theory. By the way, Darwin himself is reported to have recanted his theory in his later days.

I attended Catholic elementary, high school and university from 1966 to 1983. Creationism was never taught in any Catholic school I attended. I am totally on board with God starting a process that took billions of years to evolve.

[Bucco]

Doubt if the Roman Emperors knew about this fish symbol at least not around the time during Jesus Christ and just after that.

Jesus and Caesar (https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tools/ask-a-scholar/jesus-and-caesar)

"One of the oldest Christian symbols is the fish. It was used by Christians to identify themselves and each other, often in times of persecution. It is often found in the Roman catacombs, a secret meeting place during the time when the Christians were persecuted for their faith by the Romans."

List of Catholic Symbols and Meanings - Owlcation - Education (https://owlcation.com/humanities/catholic-symbols)

[Bucco]

[QUOTE=kanoa1kale2;1829067]

Really????
I've lived here 7 years and have yet to see a pack of rabid, angry, old white men. Do they only come out at night or on holidays? Are they invisible? Or are they a figment of your imagination???????

I have been here for 20 years, and the difference is extremely palatable. I posted already on here about needing to quit going to Paneras in Sumter because of the loud, noisy, pushy folks selling books, jewelry, water all emblazoned with the "name".

Actually saw a tall woman with a jeweled shirt carrying the "name" stopping folks, a book in hand, saying whatever and one lady turned to her after hearing some "great and wonderful thing" that was done and she simply said......"Oh, how so"....which dampened the enthusiasm.

But Boomer is on very solid ground

[John41]

Home Study Course About the Modern Science of Evolution | The Great Courses Plus (https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/what-darwin-didnt-know-the-modern-science-of-evolution)

Have not looked at this myself. YET! But it looks very interesting. My majors in college were Philosophy and History and I took many courses on the Philosophy and/or History of Science. Evolution came up rather often as did the limitations of the scientific method. I minored in Religious Studies. This was at the University of Nevada, Reno. (UNR).

Some of these professors were also teaching judges at the National Judicial College which is on the UNR campus.

Home | The National Judicial College | NJC (https://www.judges.org/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIntS9pv7U6wIVCgCGCh1_cA1mEAAYASA AEgLS4fD_BwE)

I hope you enjoy your studies. Sounds fascinating. Right now I am reading a book on the problems with mathematical modeling in physics which is philosophy of science oriented. It’s title is “Lost in Math”.

[jimjamuser]

The fish symbol was used by early Christians as a signal or "password" so to speak when gathering together under threat of prosecution. One individual meeting another that said they were a believer, would make the first line of the fish and the other would finish the symbol as a form of password or proof that they belonged.
Justifying the "evolution" mutation of the Christian symbol is lame. It is a perversion of the symbol, similar to those that display the cross turned upside down. Both are just an attempt to intimidate those that non-believers fear, Christians. Real Christians do not become violent over something so childish. If those gentlemen were Christians (did they really say they were?) then would not have been so intolerant. Disagreement is just another sign of our humanity. Destruction of property or vandalism are criminal acts.

If this is a true story, I see no value in complaining about it. In stead of complaining to us, like we are to blame, the authorities (Social Services?) should have been contacted and a complaint made.
Being "old" is not a crime
Being "white" is not a crime
Being a "Christian" is not a crime.
Being destructive IS a crime.
I agree with the last 3 sentences of the 1st paragraph.

[jimjamuser]

Religion threads should be not allowed along with political threads that are already prohibited They both become very annoying very fast.
Relative to the controversial, evolution vrs creation - as OLD as we in TV Land are - just wait a few years and we will all die - and MAYBE (?) we will KNOW the answer - fingers crossed lads!!!!!

[andercat]

No one that believes in the Bible as the Word of GOD believes in evolution. There is NO inference of evolution in the Bible.
Catholics believe in CREATION, not evolution. If evolution was taught in their schools, it was Darwin's theory of Evolution, as an example not as a fact.
I have studied many different Bible believing religions and they ALL believe in Creation.

Interviewing several scientists and archeologists, I have never found one that could prove Evolution. I have found several that have said that the Bible is a historically accurate document that is reinforced by scientific evidence. They also seem to agree that the ONLY evolution if any is man made. True evolution is natEvolution is not forbidden by these denominations. ural and the lack of evidence suggests that Darwin only had a theory. By the way, Darwin himself is reported to have recanted his theory in his later days.

You can find several anythings to agree with any point of view. You say that you have never found any that could prove evolution. Have anyone been able to prove the existence of God? Darwin's recantation is considered unsupportable and is considered as an attempt by some Christians as a way to debunk his theory.
My sister in law and her father are Lutheran ministers. I'm Catholic. Evolution is acceptable to these groups and many other denominations.
I'm not asking for anyone to believe in evolution. What I am saying is that you can be a Christian and also believe in evolution. To a majority of Christians they are not mutually exclusive.

[Worldseries27]

This was jesus 11th commandment to us all. Ask yourself was it followed by any of the particpants in this unfortunate matter?. Is it not more important to worry about where your soul is going than to argue about how you got here?
Father georges lemaitre, a belgian catholic priest, who fought and was wounded in ww1, is considered the father of the big bang theory. Read about him if the science of god is important to you. Love one another.

[andercat]

Catholics that do not believe in the bible are not listening to their Pope either. Not sure why they call themselves Catholics.

I said that Catholics do not believe in a word for word literal interpretation of the bible. That is not the same thing as not believing in the bible.
Speaking about forgiveness
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
So 7 x 70 = 490. After that we don't need to forgive? That is what a literal interpretation would mean. I think the point is not the actual number but the need to forgive is timeless.

[jimjamuser]

[QUOTE=kanoa1kale2;1829067]

Really????
I've lived here 7 years and have yet to see a pack of rabid, angry, old white men. Do they only come out at night or on holidays? Are they invisible? Or are they a figment of your imagination???????
People have vouched for BlueAsh's integrety. And at least one other poster had the same experience. So, your cute sarcasm is misplaced!

[John41]

The article seems to support natural selection rather than evolution. It cites sub-species (or varieties) of foxes and giraffes, but gives no evidence how an entirely new species could evolve from any of the sub-species. You could just as easily claim that the article supports creationism in its definition of a species as a group of animals that can freely interbreed among themselves. (The Bible uses the word "kind", not "species".) Genetic mutations aren't proof of evolution on their own. A genetic mutation that produces an increase in the genome would go a long way in support of evolution, but so far we have only seen mutations that result in a decrease of genetic material.

Yes bumpygreens you are absolutely correct and I think the first in this thread to say the principal mechanism is natural selection.

[donfey]

Mrs Blueash came out of the Southern Trace Publix to find two older men at her golf cart. On the rear plastic curtain we have an Evolve sticker similar to the one below. These two older white men verbally attacked her claiming that this was offensive to their Christianity as it defiled a Christian symbol. She told them to leave her alone and go away. They called her an "ignorant c*nt" and eventually allowed her to leave. They had ripped the feet off the fish.

No the store does not have video. No she did not take a photo of these excellent Christians.

I apologize for the two "men." It's apparent they were poorly raised. Buffoons, I'd say.

[jimjamuser]

For those of you who don't believe in God, In my opinion you are seeing the results of that every day and it's getting much worse. We have
kicked God out of Schools, Government and trying everywhere else. And as it's my opinion, I thing you're not going to believe where
we end up. But for those of us who choose to believe, we also know where were going to end up.
Can you REALLY know, as in KNOW? I do NOT think that MANY, many people are coming back from that great UNKNOWABLE beyond - to prove it. I know (before you can say it) that some old, often translated book tells you THAT when you are young and impressable - that some guy really (?) made it back? - I suppose, it is possible, but unlikely. And I KNOW that you don't KNOW. Besides, why not just wait a few years and find out. (I know) next, you tell me about the big, BAD, HELL place, that is another invention of peoples's minds. It is all a nice STORY that builds big cathedrals and drives wedges between people and has caused countless wars, death, and destruction. All for a nice imagined STORY. The glory of the story - one that can not be PROVED- Oh isn't that convenient? I have just wasted my time typing - everyone happy?

[jimjamuser]

That symbol was developed by atheists as an intentional affront to christian beliefs. They could have chosen a number of other ways to get their point across, but they intentionally chose a Christian symbol. It doesn't excuse the two men in the parking lot. Spending an hour in church on Sunday doesn't make one a Christian anymore than spending an hour in a garage would make him into a car. They may call themselves Christian, but in reality they are merely practicing a form of superstition. Kind of like having that symbol on your golf cart, and a quote from The Bible in your signature line. The dichotomy is convincingly confusing.
Dichotomy is a good word to use as a general reference for this overall situation. Kudos. I might add a humorous, but also, somewhat relevant comment - notice that dichotomy ryhmes with lobotomy - which means? - whatever floats your particular watercraft

[jimjamuser]

Well said. Exactly as I was taught in Catholic high school in the 1970's. The Earth being created in six 24 hour days...really? Six days is symbolic for the Earth being created over billions of years.

And I am sorry Mrs. Blueash encountered these people...Christians they are most certainly not.
Exactly! 6 days or 6 billion years - it brings together the creationists and the evolutionist. Religion can be a positive - bring people together experience OR a negative break people apart and cause a wedge that ends up in war and KILLING. You can to pick your attitude - the light OR the dark - violence OR non-violence - Ying OR Yang. It is a life choice. It follows from childhood to death.

[Chi-Town]

This symbol gets OP's point across and the two idiots would never figure it out.

[Kenswing]

This symbol gets OP's point across and the two idiots would never figure it out.
I liked your first picture better.. lol

[oldtimes]

So sorry that this happened to Mrs Blueash. It was very unchristian and they should be very ashamed.

[jimjamuser]

Hey Red White and Blue.. I come from the human race, planet earth. This is not a made up story. Tell me how you made that assertion? What is your evidence. EVIDENCE. Don't like me, that's fine. Yes I have a bias toward decency and honesty and equality and justice. Toward science and education, toward tolerance toward inclusion.

I posted exactly how Mrs Blueash reported the incident. The only detail omitted was that they were both about 5' 6" and they specifically told her that they saw the evolve sticker as an attack on their religion. I wanted to call the police she declined and just wants it to stop. She is sick and tired of the vitriol coming from the right at her in this instance, and at several of her friends recently. Why don't you believe this "story"? Was it you standing at her golf cart? Was it your friends or people who think the way you do? This is a 100% accurate description of what happened. Deal with it.
Right away, I felt that your account of the incident was factually correct. I particularly agree with your bias toward SCIENCE! Again Kudos.

[tvbound]

After reading so many posts in this thread by people who claim to be a Christian, it is not hard at all for me to believe the OP's account of what happened to his wife.

[Worldseries27]

can you really know, as in know? I do not think that many, many people are coming back from that great unknowable beyond - to prove it. I know (before you can say it) that some old, often translated book tells you that when you are young and impressable - that some guy really (?) made it back? - i suppose, it is possible, but unlikely. And i know that you don't know. Besides, why not just wait a few years and find out. (i know) next, you tell me about the big, bad, hell place, that is another invention of peoples's minds. It is all a nice story that builds big cathedrals and drives wedges between people and has caused countless wars, death, and destruction. All for a nice imagined story. The glory of the story - one that can not be proved- oh isn't that convenient? I have just wasted my time typing - everyone happy?
here's what i know. The universe is a gift we live within. Man did not create the air you breathe nor the gravitational forces that hold the universe and all that is in it together. Man also did not create the matter that came into existence at the point of creation. So bearing this in mind i give thanks to our creator every day.

[Incoblack1]

I have never understood why someone puts a religious or political sticker on there car especially these day. Yes it’s your right but 1 it never changed anyone’s mind and 2 as we see here it opens you up to ridicule and vandalism
If you are proud of your beliefs and want people to have mo misunderstanding of where you stand then a bumper sticker is a good way to express those beliefs!

[joseppe]

here's what i know. The universe is a gift we live within. Man did not create the air you breathe nor the gravitational forces that hold the universe and all that is in it together. Man also did not create the matter that came into existence at the point of creation. So bearing this in mind i give thanks to our creator every day.

Yes, I think Allah did a wonderful job, didn't he.

[camaguey48]

Right away, I felt that your account of the incident was factually correct. I particularly agree with your bias toward SCIENCE! Again Kudos.
. I wanted to call the police she declined and just wants it to stop.

So, you were there and she stopped you? Hmmmm!

[Incoblack1]

Science and religion are in conflict. Choose one! Science still doesn't have all the answers but it is the
best method of discovering the truth we know!

[JSR22]

. I wanted to call the police she declined and just wants it to stop.

So, you were there and she stopped you? Hmmmm!

She came home from Publix and told him what happened. I 100% believe it happened.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If you are proud of your beliefs and want people to have mo misunderstanding of where you stand then a bumper sticker is a good way to express those beliefs!

If you were any good at living your beliefs, you wouldn't need to use a bumpersticker to clear up any misunderstanding.

Mostly though, no one really gives a flying farkle which religion you've chosen to cling to, until and unless you shove it into someone else's face. Your bumper sticker is just another way of ensuring that you lower the resale and trade-in value on your car.

[oldtimes]

Yes, I think Allah did a wonderful job, didn't he.

And that is why our founding fathers created the first amendment.

[oldtimes]

here's what i know. The universe is a gift we live within. Man did not create the air you breathe nor the gravitational forces that hold the universe and all that is in it together. Man also did not create the matter that came into existence at the point of creation. So bearing this in mind i give thanks to our creator every day.

As do we. :pray:

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1829163]
People have vouched for BlueAsh's integrety. And at least one other poster had the same experience. So, your cute sarcasm is misplaced!

Why don't you review who said what and who responded to what. My post had nothing to do with Blueash, whom I respect immensely.

[Taltarzac725]

On this thread, a bit of talking how The Villages has changed.

This post is indicative of changes on this forum

I have come across some of these religious zealots here in the Villages in person and believe this did happen here. It is part of the intolerance of the Fall of 2020 you see in the news from all over the country. And you see it in human behavior in all of written literature as well as in the oral traditions going back thousands of years.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I have come across some of these religious zealots here in the Villages in person and believe this did happen here. It is part of the intolerance of the Fall of 2020 you see in the news from all over the country. And you see it in human behavior in all of written literature as well as in the oral traditions going back thousands of years.

I'm used to it, it's nothing new for me. It never ceases to sadden me to see ignorance but none are so blind as they who refuse to see.

What's just as bad - is when it comes up in just normal casual conversation and I mention that I"m Jewish and all of a sudden everyone says "Ohhh I LOVE Jewish people!" It's sort of a passive-aggressive apologetic condescension. Like I'm supposed to be thankful that they love Jewish people or something. I can't explain it, but if you'd experienced it yourself, you'd totally get what I mean.

[John41]

Sad post. Complete with a threat. Would Jesus make a threat in this situation?????

Well you won’t see Jesus walking out of Publix so I would be careful what you offensive stickers you put on your cart.

[John41]

I don’t think that is mocking. Some Christians DO believe in evolution. God-directed evolution. The EVOLVE fish actually is / can be a Christian symbol. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I get your point but I doubt Mrs Blueash intended it to imply god directed evolution.