Any legal recourse with apartment plans?

[Hospes444]

The plans to build these large apartment buildings does not seem like a great idea to me. The Villages is already overcrowded; especially in the winter months. What will this do to the already growing traffic? How long will we have to wait for a coffee at Dunkin Donuts, a drink on the square at happy hour, food at any of the restaurants, checking out at any of the shopping stores etc etc. I dont even want to think of the effect on the already crowded golf courses!!! What about real estate prices, and all the empty rental homes that will most doubtedly be a result of this. We all paid a premium in terms of pricing when we bought our homes, because of its location (The Villages). Everyone knows the price of homes here far exceeds most of Florida; sans the beaches. While my husband and I paid less than $200,000 for our home, others who have paid say $400,000 arent going to be happy when the value of their homes drops to $300,000 virtually overnight. OUCH !! The Morse family has made a lot of money. It's sad that they are taking away from the very people who made them this money, only to make more money for themselves and ruin the quality of life for us in the process!! Shameful.

[oldtimes]

The plans to build these large apartment buildings does not seem like a great idea to me. The Villages is already overcrowded; especially in the winter months. What will this do to the already growing traffic? How long will we have to wait for a coffee at Dunkin Donuts, a drink on the square at happy hour, food at any of the restaurants, checking out at any of the shopping stores etc etc. I dont even want to think of the effect on the already crowded golf courses!!! What about real estate prices, and all the empty rental homes that will most doubtedly be a result of this. We all paid a premium in terms of pricing when we bought our homes, because of its location (The Villages). Everyone knows the price of homes here far exceeds most of Florida; sans the beaches. While my husband and I paid less than $200,000 for our home, others who have paid say $400,000 arent going to be happy when the value of their homes drops to $300,000 virtually overnight. OUCH !! The Morse family has made a lot of money. It's sad that they are taking away from the very people who made them this money, only to make more money for themselves and ruin the quality of life for us in the process!! Shameful.

There is not a shred of fact in any of this and it makes no sense at all.

[graciegirl]

The plans to build these large apartment buildings does not seem like a great idea to me. The Villages is already overcrowded; especially in the winter months. What will this do to the already growing traffic? How long will we have to wait for a coffee at Dunkin Donuts, a drink on the square at happy hour, food at any of the restaurants, checking out at any of the shopping stores etc etc. I dont even want to think of the effect on the already crowded golf courses!!! What about real estate prices, and all the empty rental homes that will most doubtedly be a result of this. We all paid a premium in terms of pricing when we bought our homes, because of its location (The Villages). Everyone knows the price of homes here far exceeds most of Florida; sans the beaches. While my husband and I paid less than $200,000 for our home, others who have paid say $400,000 arent going to be happy when the value of their homes drops to $300,000 virtually overnight. OUCH !! The Morse family has made a lot of money. It's sad that they are taking away from the very people who made them this money, only to make more money for themselves and ruin the quality of life for us in the process!! Shameful.
?????? The highlighted area is incorrect information.

I am imagining the meeting we missed. Folks are telling each other, we need to do something. They are upset and want to do something to stop what they consider a bad thing.

If you live here in The Villages and you too are upset. Please drive on Morse to just before the Spanish Springs area and pull into the parking lot of where the Hacienda Hills Country Club was. Please take pictures of what is across from it, and behind it. And take pictures of the four homes you can see from the parking lot of the postal drop still standing next to it.

There is nothing any of us can do to make you feel better. I remember the uproar of the people in Duval when they saw that a three story "high rise" would be built behind them. I remember on this forum that this was the end of their property values and their privacy. Now we can see nothing happened bad. Their property values have doubled in many cases. How long since that three story senior living building was built? Someone tell us.

I hope that this too will pass. This is a wonderful place to live and I am a huge fan of how this CDD is run. In a couple of years all this will be history.

[dewilson58]

Any recourse???..............same answer to the same question about stolen jewelry by a cleaning team.

[Dond1959]

People seem to forget economic rules when they come here. If there is demand, supply will follow. Lack of demand, things close or never develop. The developer has found an untapped demand in people wanting to live in an apartment for whatever reason. They are filling that demand with a supply.

Many on here screamed and ranted about The Lofts at Brownwood. 80% of the residents were existing Villages residents. Brownwood has significant empty space for stores and restaurants. More people close to Brownwood and as the building continues south will lead to more demand to fill the spaces.

Hacienda and Spanish Springs the demand was not there for the restaurants, whether from COVID or people going elsewhere. Businesses losing money will close and not continue to lose money. It is basic economics folks.

As far as traffic, I have to laugh when I compare traffic here to other places. This is a dream, very easy to get around even in high season. Now compared to 10 or 15 years ago, Of course you can say traffic has increased. But compared to other cities and other parts of Florida this is easy to get around.

This place is not perfect, but it is a great place to live and I am thankful I found it.

[davem4616]

I just don't get all these negative posts...we live in one of nicest and safest communities in the whole world...we want for very little
(impact of covid-19 restrictions excluded)

there is no recourse on these apartments...you may stall it, but the only ones that will win in the end are the attorneys

there's a few people out there that should seriously take the lyrics of that old Johnny Mercer song "Ac-cent-tchu-ate the Positive" to heart

we're all traveling down this path called life together....and in the end nobody get's out alive....we're in the winter of our lives, enjoy the life that you have left

[Number 10 GI]

Back where we lived in Tennessee a Texaco convenience store was built on a two lane main feeder road into the downtown area. There were a couple subdivisions about a 1/4 mile from this location with open field between them. There were all kinds of letters to the editor about how this would ruin the property values and attract drug dealers and prostitutes. I never knew that Texaco convenience stores attracted drug dealers and prostitutes. Today this road has been expanded to four lanes and has numerous business on it plus more subdivisions built along this road, but I still haven't seen the drug dealer and prostitutes.

[Topspinmo]

No!

[Topspinmo]

O wait? There is one? Wait for it —————move.:coolsmiley:

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I don’t understand giving people more choices to stay in villages is so hated . I personally know 2 couples who have left expensive independent living places to move to lofts . Restaurants and business have a hard time getting through the summer months , bringing people downtown can only help them stay profitable. Yes it’s more crowded during the winter months so maybe you have to wait another 15 minutes , but I go out almost every night it just gives me a chance to chat with new people while I wait at the bar.. The rest of the year you have so many choices to do so much in a very easy going way . I’m 81 , healthy and don’t ever cook, clean or weed , and put all my clothes in cleaners , so only do 2 washings towels and sheets , so living in my home is easy , but someday I’ll probably be glad that apartments are there for me . 20 years here , 5 homes and I still don’t have a complaint about place . Therr Must Be Something Wrong With Me

[dewilson58]

There Must Be Something Wrong With Me


It's called Happiness.

[Marathon Man]

We really really need to have a cure for Covid-19. Too many people have too much time to sit around and think of ways to become upset and angry.

[dewilson58]

We really really need to have a cure for Covid-19. Too many people have too much time to sit around and think of ways to become upset and angry.


& Covid is the Developer's fault too.

[dnobles]

We have a great life here. If the times comes, and I doubt it, that we’re not happy here we will move. Until then I don’t care how much money the Morse’s have. Thank you for building this place. I have confidence that the Morse’s know what they are doing. I enjoy every day.

[Northwoods]

We have a great life here. If the times comes, and I doubt it, that we’re not happy here we will move. Until then I don’t care how much money the Morse’s have. Thank you for building this place. I have confidence that the Morse’s know what they are doing. I enjoy every day.

I 100% agree with you. I can't imaging spending my retirement years frustrated and consumed with fighting "the Developer."
I want to enjoy my retirement years. If I for some reason I was as frustrated as a number of people on this topic, I would definitely move.

[ctmurray]

Legitimately all you can do is go to the correct governing body and ask them to not change the zoning. They are unlikely to listen to a single individual, so you would have to get lots of people to speak at the meeting. Still, it is not likely to be effective. If you have enough money you could hire lawyers. They might find some technical reason that this development violates an existing ordinance, or violates the enacted city plans. Then sue and see if a judge agrees with you. So you might delay the development. But all this is a very long shot.

The reason is that you are not an injured party. These apartments, either at Hacienda or at Spanish Springs will not actually cause property values to drop. There have been lots of studies of developments of all types, and they never result in a loss of property value. In fact adding people can have positive aspects, which the defense would bring to the judge's attention. Recessions can cause these to drop, but such a development does not cause a recession. And regarding traffic, I have attended city meetings where a traffic study had to be done for some reason, and my take away is that roads can handle a great deal of traffic, much more than is on them currently. They might get more crowded at "rush" hour, but no one ever promised you roads free of cars. So again, there is no injury. So I don't think a judge would side with you.

Honesty, if you are that nervous, sell now. Properties are selling well in the Villages currently.

[Northwoods]

Legitimately all you can do is go to the correct governing body and ask them to not change the zoning. They are unlikely to listen to a single individual, so you would have to get lots of people to speak at the meeting. Still, it is not likely to be effective. If you have enough money you could hire lawyers. They might find some technical reason that this development violates an existing ordinance, or violates the enacted city plans. Then sue and see if a judge agrees with you. So you might delay the development. But all this is a very long shot.

The reason is that you are not an injured party. These apartments, either at Hacienda or at Spanish Springs will not actually cause property values to drop. There have been lots of studies of developments of all types, and they never result in a loss of property value. In fact adding people can have positive aspects, which the defense would bring to the judge's attention. Recessions can cause these to drop, but such a development does not cause a recession. And regarding traffic, I have attended city meetings where a traffic study had to be done for some reason, and my take away is that roads can handle a great deal of traffic, much more than is on them currently. They might get more crowded at "rush" hour, but no one ever promised you roads free of cars. So again, there is no injury. So I don't think a judge would side with you.

Honesty, if you are that nervous, sell now. Properties are selling well in the Villages currently.

Totally agree. People who sell homes now make a nice profit.
There are many people who have no issue with apartments. In fact, apartments on the squares are a great idea. It's a great option for people who don't want the maintenance of a home.
I hope this "movement" doesn't kill the apartments on the square that I think most people feel will be a good addition to The Villages.

[Northerner52]

Seems like many want all progress and building to stop AFTER they arrive.

[JoannMH]

I am new to the Villages and in my early 60's. I built a new home south of 44 for around $500,000. The one thing that I feel is missing in the Villages is more retail. I would love to see more (finer)restaurants, shopping, and entertainment options. The new apartments are going to bring more demand for this.....so I think it is great that the developers are doing this. And it gives me an option when I get older and do not want the maintenance of a home. I chose my lot carefully when I built so that the potential of any future changes to my surrounds was not likely. I feel that I am representative of many of the people moving to the villages. We want more entertainment options and if there is more demand.....it will come.

[Topspinmo]

& Covid is the Developer's fault too.

Now that’s rare! We know exactly who’s fault COVID is, along with everything else that happens in last few years. It was utopia before?

[Topspinmo]

I am new to the Villages and in my early 60's. I built a new home south of 44 for around $500,000. The one thing that I feel is missing in the Villages is more retail. I would love to see more (finer)restaurants, shopping, and entertainment options. The new apartments are going to bring more demand for this.....so I think it is great that the developers are doing this. And it gives me an option when I get older and do not want the maintenance of a home. I chose my lot carefully when I built so that the potential of any future changes to my surrounds was not likely. I feel that I am representative of many of the people moving to the villages. We want more entertainment options and if there is more demand.....it will come.

Good thinking as long as it don’t affect me?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And regarding traffic, I have attended city meetings where a traffic study had to be done for some reason, and my take away is that roads can handle a great deal of traffic, much more than is on them currently. They might get more crowded at "rush" hour, but no one ever promised you roads free of cars. So again, there is no injury. So I don't think a judge would side with you.

Honesty, if you are that nervous, sell now. Properties are selling well in the Villages currently.

Unless there's some evidence that the increase in traffic will be significant. That can pose a hazard with regards to emergency vehicles, especially ambulances. This -is- afterall a senior community. The likelihood of a medical emergency is higher here than in non-senior communities. If the people living in the center of town need an ambulance to get them to (for example) VRH, it could end up with a tragedy if the ambulance can't get through traffic on the roads that only have one lane of traffic in each direction, and they are both backed up.

Yes that happens now, and it isn't usually a big deal. But if there are more people living IN the center of town, it might become a big deal more often.

[NotGolfer]

Is it just me or has a lot of unhappy people appeared in the last....oh...maybe six months or so?? This is called a development...it's built by a developer. We're not a town or a city with a mayor or governing body where we get to vote what comes or is built here. We all should do our due-diligence before we purchase so we know the history of the place and how things are managed. IF we've lived here a certain length of time and things change....just know that things change. Most people are extremely happy to live here otherwise the place wouldn't be growing as it is. As for commerce---there has to be enough people to support it. NOW with Covid, businesses probably will be slower in coming. I'm thinking there are people who understand these things----planners. They do market and business plans. What's going on south of 44 was years in the planning. Probably even when Gary Morse was still alive. What's happening in SS isn't to make LIFE miserable for people. It's to improve things. I remember when Church On The Square was going to give over to the entertainment venue and folks complained. BUT I'd venture to say they (before Covid hit) were making good use of the new facility. We're now getting name entertainment (or were). People are complaining about stores closing and restaurants going out of business. The economy has been affected by a virus. People aren't going out like they were so these places that maybe were just making it before now, aren't so much. IF we all were supporting these places, maybe it wouldn't be happening. We can't have things going both ways. I'm thankful we live in a relatively safe place that is also quite beautiful. Thank God for social media so people can spout off and vent. BUT does it do a bit of good except to stir the pot a bit? The Morse family has done things well here and I'm grateful for that.

[La lamy]

I think apartments are a good idea, but the developers need to make sure the infrastructure can withstand the new density of people. I'd love to think they have done their due diligence, but I've seen many cities that have sold out to developers without making sure all the infrastructure could handle the population increase effectively. Time will tell...

[npwalters]

Just to be clear...the vast majority of people opposed to the current plans for apartments are not opposed to apartments. We are opposed to apartments being squeezed into existing/developed areas. We aren't opposed to the Lofts at Brownwood for example since that was planned and built in an area appropriate for them.

The developer can choose locations not already overcrowded and/or in a single family home area and most of us won't object.

The statements that basically say why are you unhappy or why don't you leave are just childish and not worthy of a senior adult. One can be happy in the current circumstance and still see problems coming down the road.

[dewilson58]

Is it just me or has a lot of unhappy people appeared in the last....oh...maybe six months or so?? This is called a development...it's built by a developer. We're not a town or a city with a mayor or governing body where we get to vote what comes or is built here. We all should do our due-diligence before we purchase so we know the history of the place and how things are managed. IF we've lived here a certain length of time and things change....just know that things change. Most people are extremely happy to live here otherwise the place wouldn't be growing as it is. As for commerce---there has to be enough people to support it. NOW with Covid, businesses probably will be slower in coming. I'm thinking there are people who understand these things----planners. They do market and business plans. What's going on south of 44 was years in the planning. Probably even when Gary Morse was still alive. What's happening in SS isn't to make LIFE miserable for people. It's to improve things. I remember when Church On The Square was going to give over to the entertainment venue and folks complained. BUT I'd venture to say they (before Covid hit) were making good use of the new facility. We're now getting name entertainment (or were). People are complaining about stores closing and restaurants going out of business. The economy has been affected by a virus. People aren't going out like they were so these places that maybe were just making it before now, aren't so much. IF we all were supporting these places, maybe it wouldn't be happening. We can't have things going both ways. I'm thankful we live in a relatively safe place that is also quite beautiful. Thank God for social media so people can spout off and vent. BUT does it do a bit of good except to stir the pot a bit? The Morse family has done things well here and I'm grateful for that.




Excellent Post.


All the Ski Is Falling folks are warning about a predicted scary trend, in their eyes. The Developer eliminated a facility which was not supported and no one wanted to operate. Now the Developer is adding a couple hundred units for seniors to live in if they want a different life style. 200, 500 more car or carts will not be felt in the area. A handful of current homes will actually see the new apartments.


The Developer continues to develop.

[KRM0614]

The plans to build these large apartment buildings does not seem like a great idea to me. The Villages is already overcrowded; especially in the winter months. What will this do to the already growing traffic? How long will we have to wait for a coffee at Dunkin Donuts, a drink on the square at happy hour, food at any of the restaurants, checking out at any of the shopping stores etc etc. I dont even want to think of the effect on the already crowded golf courses!!! What about real estate prices, and all the empty rental homes that will most doubtedly be a result of this. We all paid a premium in terms of pricing when we bought our homes, because of its location (The Villages). Everyone knows the price of homes here far exceeds most of Florida; sans the beaches. While my husband and I paid less than $200,000 for our home, others who have paid say $400,000 arent going to be happy when the value of their homes drops to $300,000 virtually overnight. OUCH !! The Morse family has made a lot of money. It's sad that they are taking away from the very people who made them this money, only to make more money for themselves and ruin the quality of life for us in the process!! Shameful.
You mean their net worth doubled in 5 years ? There is never enough power or money

[rtrav711]

Déjà vu…..what comes around-goes around.
Recently responded to several comments made re the changes at Hacienda CC.
To reinterate…it was necessary for the developer to file with various States a Property Report which stated on its’ face “The developer is responsible for the Accuracy and completeness of this report”.
The one filed with the State of Connecticut was a 34 page detailed document, revised in 2003.
My personal initiative to purchase in The Villages was partially dependent on this report ;(some would refer to this as "due diligence") which in writing promised a “vision” of how The Villages were developed to that point; and what the developer was to do in the future.
There have been hundreds, if not thousands of purchases in The Villages, by individuals who were led to believe what was presented to them in writing.
There is absolutely no problem for someone to revise a plan going forward in a new area…but there is a problem for one to significantly change what was a written promise and now proves detrimental to one who had depended in it.
Additionally…there has been many pieces of sales material handed out by the developer over a period of time that states the same objectives, etc..
E.g…..Under additional information on the Restated Report filed with the Connecticut authorities…..it states on page 32 ..”40. Describe type of building, such as high rise, cluster, garden, etc….The answer is “The Villages is currently developed in two sections as “units” and “villas”. This follows the previous remark “39. …..The units are intended for and restricted solely to single family home usage”. It does not say anywhere in the report, that apartments will be part of the Villages….nor does it say anywhere in the report that multiplex buildings will become part of the Villages…nor does
it say anywhere in the report, any reference to do with specifically with apartments at Spanish Springs or Sumter Landing.
No one should have any problem….going forward on new expansion areas of The Villages as to what is to be built....as it's Going forward you are made aware of the plans.
It’s when you back up and take something away…or radically change what you have promised in writing…that causes a problem.
So what changes have been made against written promises on an Official document in this case filed with the State of Connecticut. The elimination of the pool, pro shop, tennis courts, dining facilities etc., of Hacienda CC which are specifically mentioned in the report, (eg..page 3 paragraph 3,page 20 under #17,page 21 under #18, and so on). This not only effects the adjacent homeowners….but also the greater area surrounding The HH CC …. For the hundreds of homes that considered this course their CC because
of their location to the course.
What other changes have/are occurring …… closing of the restaurant at Chula Vista; restaurant closing at El Santiago… the closing of Katie Belle’s which was a written promise of Resident Dining in a 2004 sales brochure given prospective property buyers….the proposed apartments at Katie Belles….proposed apartments on other Spanish Spring property…proposed apartments at Sumter Landing…and so on.
There has been talk of a Class Action Lawsuit by several groups, for compensatory Damages, on those several hundred homes that may be effected by the complex that is proposed at the HH CC location.
On speculation…say the developers are making 20% on a home…and they are averaging or have averaged about 5,000 homes a year…at about $300,000 a home sales price…the profit would roughly be $300,000,000. Again, this is speculative…and I have no basis for the profit margin…but just a guess. My point would be…that even if it’s half of that….to actually lose 5, 6 or even $700,000 on the promises they have made…. (restaurants…CC..etc)….would literally be nothing…and allow them to maintain what they promised in writing.
In addition to a compensatory Class Action suit…there is a question as to whether or not the developers would be exposed to a Punitive Damage count. Generally, punitive damage judgments involve a tort claim, or contract claim Eg… insurance policy. The problems here arise out of contractual purchases,
based on written promises.
Punitive Damages, or exemplary damages, are damages assessed in order to punish the defendant for outrageous conduct and/or to reform or deter the defendant and others from engaging in conduct similar to that which formed the basis of the lawsuit.
I am not an attorney…but have read about these substantial judgments. Given the importance… of filing a detailed property report with requiring official state entities…the content of these reports cannot be viewed lightly.
In this situation, if the breach of written promise is so egregious, to amount to a breach of the implied good faith and fair dealing; there may be a basis for a punitive damage award. Again….I am not an attorney…and what I have concluded may be all wet…but it might be a consideration for those directly effected by the developer’s actions.
We moved to the Villages many years ago...and will remain regardless of what changes will be made.
It still is a special place...but am disappointed that written promises that have been made are being
broken,
Anyhow…these are my current thoughts on the matter.

[jimjamuser]

The plans to build these large apartment buildings does not seem like a great idea to me. The Villages is already overcrowded; especially in the winter months. What will this do to the already growing traffic? How long will we have to wait for a coffee at Dunkin Donuts, a drink on the square at happy hour, food at any of the restaurants, checking out at any of the shopping stores etc etc. I dont even want to think of the effect on the already crowded golf courses!!! What about real estate prices, and all the empty rental homes that will most doubtedly be a result of this. We all paid a premium in terms of pricing when we bought our homes, because of its location (The Villages). Everyone knows the price of homes here far exceeds most of Florida; sans the beaches. While my husband and I paid less than $200,000 for our home, others who have paid say $400,000 arent going to be happy when the value of their homes drops to $300,000 virtually overnight. OUCH !! The Morse family has made a lot of money. It's sad that they are taking away from the very people who made them this money, only to make more money for themselves and ruin the quality of life for us in the process!! Shameful.
As long as people think of progress as "a frontier philosophy" and building, building, building and making more, more goods, pouring more concrete and making more money as the ULTIMATE GOAL of society, this, sort of, example of over-crowding will continue. For society to change and improve, then GOALS like "quality of life" need to be sought after. Do YOU know that the US is WAY down the world's list of countries for "quality of life" and other such measures? Have YOU ever heard or thought about such measures? Think your life is SSSSOOOO wonderful in TV Land? Google how the SUPERIOR the Scandinavian countries are for individual happiness. They even LIVE longer. That is the macro-world view.
.......Talking about locally here in TV Land - yes - we should ALL think about, " do we want over-crowding"? - are the roads big enough for the amount of people here now. How does the "so called" PROGRESS here affect each person's quality of life? What about the fertilizer run-off from our over-cultivated lawns and golf courses? Stick your ears out of any window and you are more likely to hear noise pollution from LOUD internal combustion engines than you will hear birds singing. In 10 years in the future, they will ALL be quiet electrical lawnmowers and vehicles. The world is moving toward electric vehicles, while TV Land will drag its feet kicking and complaining into the future.
......CV and Global Warming and sea rise are caused by over-building and over-population on a large scale. Here locally, you can see ALL those large changes playing out right HERE in this thread. Just something to ponder! What would Jesus think?

[Daddymac]

There is not a shred of fact in any of this and it makes no sense at all.

Oh Yes it does!!
You are blind if you can’t see that !

[Girlcopper]

The plans to build these large apartment buildings does not seem like a great idea to me. The Villages is already overcrowded; especially in the winter months. What will this do to the already growing traffic? How long will we have to wait for a coffee at Dunkin Donuts, a drink on the square at happy hour, food at any of the restaurants, checking out at any of the shopping stores etc etc. I dont even want to think of the effect on the already crowded golf courses!!! What about real estate prices, and all the empty rental homes that will most doubtedly be a result of this. We all paid a premium in terms of pricing when we bought our homes, because of its location (The Villages). Everyone knows the price of homes here far exceeds most of Florida; sans the beaches. While my husband and I paid less than $200,000 for our home, others who have paid say $400,000 arent going to be happy when the value of their homes drops to $300,000 virtually overnight. OUCH !! The Morse family has made a lot of money. It's sad that they are taking away from the very people who made them this money, only to make more money for themselves and ruin the quality of life for us in the process!! Shameful.
The Villages is no different than any other city or area that attracts snowbirds and gets crowded seasonally. Ft Lauderdale is a mess during the winter and spring break. You cant get into a restaurant or food store. Restaurants inflate their prices etc etc. Its the price you pay for living in these areas. Either you tolerate it or relocate

[Barborv]

On a positive note, what attracted me to the Villages was the size. It felt like a little city. I visited about 30+ active adult communities over a 3 year span, and each place seemed so boring with their one huge clubhouse, 1 or 2 pools, no shopping within the community on a golf cart, etc. What I also always liked about the Villages is when you would go to the squares or restaurants in the bubble, you would see all ages. Makes things more normal. One place I looked at felt more like a nursing home than an active 55 community. So.... Lets hope with all these new happenings and more people, it will bring more choices of shops , restaurants and added clubs and times. But what does puzzle me is that with all the building going on in the southern part, why dont they make one of those areas apartments? Their own section. especially the area by the turnpike. Maybe the plans were in before they started this new venture.

[graciegirl]

On a positive note, what attracted me to the Villages was the size. It felt like a little city. I visited about 30+ active adult communities over a 3 year span, and each place seemed so boring with their one huge clubhouse, 1 or 2 pools, no shopping within the community on a golf cart, etc. What I also always liked about the Villages is when you would go to the squares or restaurants in the bubble, you would see all ages. Makes things more normal. One place I looked at felt more like a nursing home than an active 55 community. So.... Lets hope with all these new happenings and more people, it will bring more choices of shops , restaurants and added clubs and times. But what does puzzle me is that with all the building going on in the southern part, why dont they make one of those areas apartments? Their own section. especially the area by the turnpike. Maybe the plans were in before they started this new venture.

You have seen pictures of The Lofts at Brownwood?

{{metaTags.title}} (https://www.thevillages.com/thelofts/)

[PugMom]

Déjà vu…..what comes around-goes around.
Recently responded to several comments made re the changes at Hacienda CC.
To reinterate…it was necessary for the developer to file with various States a Property Report which stated on its’ face “The developer is responsible for the Accuracy and completeness of this report”.
The one filed with the State of Connecticut was a 34 page detailed document, revised in 2003.
My personal initiative to purchase in The Villages was partially dependent on this report ;(some would refer to this as "due diligence") which in writing promised a “vision” of how The Villages were developed to that point; and what the developer was to do in the future.
There have been hundreds, if not thousands of purchases in The Villages, by individuals who were led to believe what was presented to them in writing.
There is absolutely no problem for someone to revise a plan going forward in a new area…but there is a problem for one to significantly change what was a written promise and now proves detrimental to one who had depended in it.
Additionally…there has been many pieces of sales material handed out by the developer over a period of time that states the same objectives, etc..
E.g…..Under additional information on the Restated Report filed with the Connecticut authorities…..it states on page 32 ..”40. Describe type of building, such as high rise, cluster, garden, etc….The answer is “The Villages is currently developed in two sections as “units” and “villas”. This follows the previous remark “39. …..The units are intended for and restricted solely to single family home usage”. It does not say anywhere in the report, that apartments will be part of the Villages….nor does it say anywhere in the report that multiplex buildings will become part of the Villages…nor does
it say anywhere in the report, any reference to do with specifically with apartments at Spanish Springs or Sumter Landing.
No one should have any problem….going forward on new expansion areas of The Villages as to what is to be built....as it's Going forward you are made aware of the plans.
It’s when you back up and take something away…or radically change what you have promised in writing…that causes a problem.
So what changes have been made against written promises on an Official document in this case filed with the State of Connecticut. The elimination of the pool, pro shop, tennis courts, dining facilities etc., of Hacienda CC which are specifically mentioned in the report, (eg..page 3 paragraph 3,page 20 under #17,page 21 under #18, and so on). This not only effects the adjacent homeowners….but also the greater area surrounding The HH CC …. For the hundreds of homes that considered this course their CC because
of their location to the course.
What other changes have/are occurring …… closing of the restaurant at Chula Vista; restaurant closing at El Santiago… the closing of Katie Belle’s which was a written promise of Resident Dining in a 2004 sales brochure given prospective property buyers….the proposed apartments at Katie Belles….proposed apartments on other Spanish Spring property…proposed apartments at Sumter Landing…and so on.
There has been talk of a Class Action Lawsuit by several groups, for compensatory Damages, on those several hundred homes that may be effected by the complex that is proposed at the HH CC location.
On speculation…say the developers are making 20% on a home…and they are averaging or have averaged about 5,000 homes a year…at about $300,000 a home sales price…the profit would roughly be $300,000,000. Again, this is speculative…and I have no basis for the profit margin…but just a guess. My point would be…that even if it’s half of that….to actually lose 5, 6 or even $700,000 on the promises they have made…. (restaurants…CC..etc)….would literally be nothing…and allow them to maintain what they promised in writing.
In addition to a compensatory Class Action suit…there is a question as to whether or not the developers would be exposed to a Punitive Damage count. Generally, punitive damage judgments involve a tort claim, or contract claim Eg… insurance policy. The problems here arise out of contractual purchases,
based on written promises.
Punitive Damages, or exemplary damages, are damages assessed in order to punish the defendant for outrageous conduct and/or to reform or deter the defendant and others from engaging in conduct similar to that which formed the basis of the lawsuit.
I am not an attorney…but have read about these substantial judgments. Given the importance… of filing a detailed property report with requiring official state entities…the content of these reports cannot be viewed lightly.
In this situation, if the breach of written promise is so egregious, to amount to a breach of the implied good faith and fair dealing; there may be a basis for a punitive damage award. Again….I am not an attorney…and what I have concluded may be all wet…but it might be a consideration for those directly effected by the developer’s actions.
We moved to the Villages many years ago...and will remain regardless of what changes will be made.
It still is a special place...but am disappointed that written promises that have been made are being
broken,
Anyhow…these are my current thoughts on the matter.

what would make you think this is like Ct.?? it's the exact OPPOSITE, which is why we left to come here. what was once a beautiful state had become a 'landfill' from corruption in the highest levels. why even compare the 2 opposites?

[justjim]

As long as people think of progress as "a frontier philosophy" and building, building, building and making more, more goods, pouring more concrete and making more money as the ULTIMATE GOAL of society, this, sort of, example of over-crowding will continue. For society to change and improve, then GOALS like "quality of life" need to be sought after. Do YOU know that the US is WAY down the world's list of countries for "quality of life" and other such measures? Have YOU ever heard or thought about such measures? Think your life is SSSSOOOO wonderful in TV Land? Google how the SUPERIOR the Scandinavian countries are for individual happiness. They even LIVE longer. That is the macro-world view.
.......Talking about locally here in TV Land - yes - we should ALL think about, " do we want over-crowding"? - are the roads big enough for the amount of people here now. How does the "so called" PROGRESS here affect each person's quality of life? What about the fertilizer run-off from our over-cultivated lawns and golf courses? Stick your ears out of any window and you are more likely to hear noise pollution from LOUD internal combustion engines than you will hear birds singing. In 10 years in the future, they will ALL be quiet electrical lawnmowers and vehicles. The world is moving toward electric vehicles, while TV Land will drag its feet kicking and complaining into the future.
......CV and Global Warming and sea rise are caused by over-building and over-population on a large scale. Here locally, you can see ALL those large changes playing out right HERE in this thread. Just something to ponder! What would Jesus think?

Interesting post. You make some good points. A better part of TV residents are likely into the so called “frontier philosophy”. Global warming or climate change probably not so much. Although the majority of scientists seem to agree that climate change is here and right before our eyes. Whether the apartments proposed to replace Hacienda or second floors at Spanish Springs could face legal challenges remains to be seen.

[justjim]

what would make you think this is like Ct.?? it's the exact OPPOSITE, which is why we left to come here. what was once a beautiful state had become a 'landfill' from corruption in the highest levels. why even compare the 2 opposites?

It would help to see the Developers report filed in Connecticut mentioned by Rtrav711

[Madelaine Amee]

On a positive note, what attracted me to the Villages was the size. It felt like a little city. I visited about 30+ active adult communities over a 3 year span, and each place seemed so boring with their one huge clubhouse, 1 or 2 pools, no shopping within the community on a golf cart, etc. What I also always liked about the Villages is when you would go to the squares or restaurants in the bubble, you would see all ages. Makes things more normal. One place I looked at felt more like a nursing home than an active 55 community. So.... Lets hope with all these new happenings and more people, it will bring more choices of shops , restaurants and added clubs and times. But what does puzzle me is that with all the building going on in the southern part, why dont they make one of those areas apartments? Their own section. especially the area by the turnpike. Maybe the plans were in before they started this new venture.

What would make you think people interested in apartment dwelling would want to be in the new southern areas? Most people interested in apartment living are looking to be close to stores, medical facilities, hospitals all within walking or golf cart riding in easy reach of their apartment. The Lofts are convenient to Brownwood and all the immediate shopping and restaurants. There is not much yet at the southern end of TV to encourage people looking to downsize to an apartment.

If I decide to sell up and move into an apartment it would be to be closer to everything without having to drive miles.

[rtrav711]

Just to clarify my previous comments.
Pugmom stated "what would make you think this is like Ct.?? it's the exact OPPOSITE, which is why we left to come here. What was once a beautiful state had become a 'landfill' from corruption in the highest levels. why even compare the 2 opposites?"
Actually...maybe I wasn't clear in the wording of what I said. In this case, the "Developer ( which would be The Villages); was required to file a Restated Property Report about their development ( The Villages). It was necessary for them to file this report which stated how their Florida Property (The Villages) was to be developed.
In essence, the report was on The Villages Florida, and how the property had been developed to date...and how the balance of the property was to be developed going forward.
It was not a comparison of the two states.
Hope this clarifies it for you.

[JoMar]

The Brownwood Hotel, The Center for Advanced Healthcare, The Lofts all surrounded by single family homes and don't see those folks complaining. Might have something to do with a younger population who understand that growth is a positive thing? Last I looked the plans for the HH apartments haven't been published but I would assume there would be recreation facilities. I would also assume that there might not be a restaurant since there was little support for the last one although having folks in the apartments within walking distance might make a difference.

[rtrav711]

Appreciate the comments…. The main difference with the Lofts and the HH CC ….is the Lofts were in the developer’s plans and were expected by its’ neighbors. Where the HH CC proposed project is contrary to the development plans The Villages developer filed with several states, and used as a sales tool to attract buyers. Something that was not expected by those investing and living the balance of their retirement years in The Villages. Hope that clarifies the difference for you.
And as an additional note…even the older population sees growth as a positive thing…but maybe not at the expense of being misled…or being the victim of a broken promise.
But actually supportive of change and development…. going forward in newly developed areas.

[Northwoods]

Just to be clear...the vast majority of people opposed to the current plans for apartments are not opposed to apartments. We are opposed to apartments being squeezed into existing/developed areas. We aren't opposed to the Lofts at Brownwood for example since that was planned and built in an area appropriate for them.

The developer can choose locations not already overcrowded and/or in a single family home area and most of us won't object.

The statements that basically say why are you unhappy or why don't you leave are just childish and not worthy of a senior adult. One can be happy in the current circumstance and still see problems coming down the road.

Are you opposed to apartments above the businesses (the 2nd story) in Spanish Springs and Lake Sumter?
I would assume people who want to be close to restaurants/shopping would find these apartments very desirable. Plus, it isn't constructing an apartment building in a single family area. Also, it wouldn't create a large volume of people like an apartment complex.

[Ladygolfer93]

We really really need to have a cure for Covid-19. Too many people have too much time to sit around and think of ways to become upset and angry.

That is very true ! I have no FB page and don't do FB or Twitter, or any of that. But WAY back signed up on TOTV (it was very different then, more like just friendly neighbors having a "chat board" to share tips and very little, VERY little political chat even in election years. Also you could read it easily, few ads. Then I closed my account for a few years and started again around 20 09 or 10. Since this virus thing, I can not believe how often I get a cup of coffee and start reading the posts each day. PLEASE bring back my daily yoga classes, my golf league, my crafts, social clubs, etc. etc.

[Madelaine Amee]

That is very true ! I have no FB page and don't do FB or Twitter, or any of that. But WAY back signed up on TOTV (it was very different then, more like just friendly neighbors having a "chat board" to share tips and very little, VERY little political chat even in election years. Also you could read it easily, few ads. Then I closed my account for a few years and started again around 20 09 or 10. Since this virus thing, I can not believe how often I get a cup of coffee and start reading the posts each day. PLEASE bring back my daily yoga classes, my golf league, my crafts, social clubs, etc. etc.

If you asked the residents of TV I believe they would all agree with you on hoping to see the lifestyle of TV open again. BUT, until people start being proactive about spreading the virus, this is not going to happen. There are still far too many people who believe this whole thing is a hoax and absolutely refuse to wear a mask and distance themselves. We are our worst enemy.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

For the family , greed is good and for us greed is good because it brings wonderful changes and more options to enjoy ( 20 year villager 5 homes )

[njbchbum]

snipped But what does puzzle me is that with all the building going on in the southern part, why dont they make one of those areas apartments? Their own section. especially the area by the turnpike. Maybe the plans were in before they started this new venture.

What would make you think people interested in apartment dwelling would want to be in the new southern areas? Most people interested in apartment living are looking to be close to stores, medical facilities, hospitals all within walking or golf cart riding in easy reach of their apartment. The Lofts are convenient to Brownwood and all the immediate shopping and restaurants. There is not much yet at the southern end of TV to encourage people looking to downsize to an apartment.

If I decide to sell up and move into an apartment it would be to be closer to everything without having to drive miles.

Y'all might want to do an internet search on the Southern Oaks development in the Villages Florida to read more such as this article:
https://www. villages - news. com/2020/08/05/the-villages-gains-initial-approval-for-family-housing-area-in-wildwood/
[url adjusted for printing here]

[njbchbum]

Are you opposed to apartments above the businesses (the 2nd story) in Spanish Springs and Lake Sumter?
I would assume people who want to be close to restaurants/shopping would find these apartments very desirable. Plus, it isn't constructing an apartment building in a single family area. Also, it wouldn't create a large volume of people like an apartment complex.

Have you seen the plans for developing the Country Club properties? If not an apt bldg - where can we find the plans for the remaining apartments that are going to be built? Thanks.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

[QUOTE=rtrav711;1835901]Déjà vu…..what comes around-goes around.
Recently responded to several comments made re the changes at Hacienda CC.
To reinterate…it was necessary for the developer to file with various States a Property Report which stated on its’ face “The developer is responsible for the Accuracy and completeness of this report”.
The one filed with the State of Connecticut was a 34 page detailed document, revised in 2003.
My personal initiative to purchase in The Villages was partially dependent on this report ;(some would refer to this as "due diligence") which in writing promised a “vision” of how The Villages were developed to that point; and what the developer was to do in the future.
There have been hundreds, if not thousands of purchases in The Villages, by individuals who were led to believe what was presented to them in writing.
There is absolutely no problem for someone to revise a plan going forward in a new area…but there is a problem for one to significantly change what was a written promise and now proves detrimental to one who had depended in it.
Additionally…there has been many pieces of sales material handed out by the developer over a period of time that states the same objectives, etc..
E.g…..Under additional information on the Restated Report filed with the Connecticut authorities…..it states on page 32 ..”40. Describe type of building, such as high rise, cluster, garden, etc….The answer is “The Villages is currently developed in two sections as “units” and “villas”. This follows the previous remark “39. …..The units are intended for and restricted solely to single family home usage”. It does not say anywhere in the report, that apartments will be part of the Villages….nor does it say anywhere in the report that multiplex buildings will become part of the Villages…nor does
it say anywhere in the report, any reference to do with specifically with apartments at Spanish Springs or Sumter Landing.
No one should have any problem….going forward on new expansion areas of The Villages as to what is to be built....as it's Going forward you are made aware of the plans.
It’s when you back up and take something away…or radically change what you have promised in writing…that causes a problem.
So what changes have been made against written promises on an Official document in this case filed with the State of Connecticut. The elimination of the pool, pro shop, tennis courts, dining facilities etc., of Hacienda CC which are specifically mentioned in the report, (eg..page 3 paragraph 3,page 20 under #17,page 21 under #18, and so on). This not only effects the adjacent homeowners….but also the greater area surrounding The HH CC …. For the hundreds of homes that considered this course their CC because
of their location to the course.
What other changes have/are occurring …… closing of the restaurant at Chula Vista; restaurant closing at El Santiago… the closing of Katie Belle’s which was a written promise of Resident Dining in a 2004 sales brochure given prospective property buyers….the proposed apartments at Katie Belles….proposed apartments on other Spanish Spring property…proposed apartments at Sumter Landing…and so on.
There has been talk of a Class Action Lawsuit by several groups, for compensatory Damages, on those several hundred homes that may be effected by the complex that is proposed at the HH CC location.
On speculation…say the developers are making 20% on a home…and they are averaging or have averaged about 5,000 homes a year…at about $300,000 a home sales price…the profit would roughly be $300,000,000. Again, this is speculative…and I have no basis for the profit margin…but just a guess. My point would be…that even if it’s half of that….to actually lose 5, 6 or even $700,000 on the promises they have made…. (restaurants…CC..etc)….would literally be nothing…and allow them to maintain what they promised in writing.
In addition to a compensatory Class Action suit…there is a question as to whether or not the developers would be exposed to a Punitive Damage count. Generally, punitive damage judgments involve a tort claim, or contract claim Eg… insurance policy. The problems here arise out of contractual purchases,
based on written promises.
Punitive Damages, or exemplary damages, are damages assessed in order to punish the defendant for outrageous conduct and/or to reform or deter the defendant and others from engaging in conduct similar to that which formed the basis of the lawsuit.
I am not an attorney…but have read about these substantial judgments. Given the importance… of filing a detailed property report with requiring official state entities…the content of these reports cannot be viewed lightly.
In this situation, if the breach of written promise is so egregious, to amount to a breach of the implied good faith and fair dealing; there may be a basis for a punitive damage award. Again….I am not an attorney…and what I have concluded may be all wet…but it might be a consideration for those directly effected by the developer’s actions.
We moved to the Villages many years ago...and will remain regardless of what changes will be made.
It still is a special place...but am disappointed that written promises that have been made are being
broken,

If this is the case, I'm sure that a lawyer somewhere will be looking for people to join a class action law suit. Since none have stepped forward, I would guess that the developer and their lawyers have covered all of their bases.

[JoMar]

Interesting what some people interpret as promises. I have looked at lots of marketing information (and created a few), including sales brochures, and have never seen the words "I/We promise". I have never seen the terms "in perpetuity" in any filing or marketing information. I applaud Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse for their vision of growth and economic vitalization and entrepreneurship. May it live long and prosper :)

[jimbomaybe]

The greater the population density the greater the negative impact on adjacent single family homes, all you need to do is look at any "developed "urban environment, that's the reason voters are in favor of zoning laws preventing the higher density housing. Yes it increases economic activity but not the quality that a single family home owner would be looking for. Apartments will work for the developers bottom line, certainly, condos would be better for both, the exception to the negative being high $$$ condos

[Two Bills]

For the family , greed is good and for us greed is good because it brings wonderful changes and more options to enjoy ( 20 year villager 5 homes )

As long as it not in your back yard!

[dewilson58]

As long as it not in your back yard!


Good thing...................the apartments are not in anyone's backyard.

[npwalters]

Good thing...................the apartments are not in anyone's backyard.

The ones at Hacienda Hills site are LITERALLY in several back yards. There is one premier home that adjoins the property line, and 68 within 500 feet of the property. The developer said last night they plan to build a 4 story building. The folks on the tops floor will be looking into several lanais.

Sumter County Planning and Zoning board sent letters to the 68 houses in the 500 foot zone (as required by law) for comment. 60 replied. All 60 were opposed to the apartments.

But don't let a few facts stop your opinions.

[graciegirl]

The ones at Hacienda Hills site are LITERALLY in several back yards. There is one premier home that adjoins the property line, and 68 within 500 feet of the property. The developer said last night they plan to build a 4 story building. The folks on the tops floor will be looking into several lanais.

Sumter County Planning and Zoning board sent letters to the 68 houses in the 500 foot zone (as required by law) for comment. 60 replied. All 60 were opposed to the apartments.

But don't let a few facts stop your opinions.



I saw four when I drove through the parking lot. I hope the old men who will be looking at people from the top floor are different then the ones that people were worried about in Duval.

I do really and honestly hope that these will be absorbed and not a horrible thing for anyone. I HOPE many people are over reacting. I hope that when they are built they will have enough space between the building and the four homes I saw. I know that at least the poster I am responding to is not one of them. They live near the Country Club that is now a theater. Tierra del Sol.

[dewilson58]

I saw four when I drove through the parking lot. I hope the old men who will be looking at people from the top floor are different then the ones that people were worried about in Duval.

I do really and honestly hope that these will be absorbed and not a horrible thing for anyone. I HOPE many people are over reacting. I hope that when they are built they will have enough space between the building and the four homes I saw. I know that at least the poster I am responding to is not one of them. They live near the Country Club that is now a theater. Tierra del Sol.


The adjacent property is looking at a storage shed right now. Most other properties have trees and fairway between them and the apartment site. Only one small 1500sf home is for sale for over $350k. Doesn't look like the sky is falling.

[npwalters]

I saw four when I drove through the parking lot. I hope the old men who will be looking at people from the top floor are different then the ones that people were worried about in Duval.

I do really and honestly hope that these will be absorbed and not a horrible thing for anyone. I HOPE many people are over reacting. I hope that when they are built they will have enough space between the building and the four homes I saw. I know that at least the poster I am responding to is not one of them. They live near the Country Club that is now a theater. Tierra del Sol.

The Planning and Zoning board did a map survey and identified 68 with 500 feet

[npwalters]

I saw four when I drove through the parking lot. I hope the old men who will be looking at people from the top floor are different then the ones that people were worried about in Duval.

I do really and honestly hope that these will be absorbed and not a horrible thing for anyone. I HOPE many people are over reacting. I hope that when they are built they will have enough space between the building and the four homes I saw. I know that at least the poster I am responding to is not one of them. They live near the Country Club that is now a theater. Tierra del Sol.

You should have come to the meeting last night and listened. It was brutal. EVERY speaker, and there were at least 60 were vehemently opposed. The developers mouthpieces, the developers, and the puppets on the board were called out, to their face. One man summed it up very well.....there will be no statues erected for the current Morse generation.

The fluff piece in the Village Sun today was disgusting and did NOT reflect the hostility between the developer and the residents.

[dewilson58]

Somebody has a funny scaled map if it shows 60 homes within 500 feet.


:1rotfl:

[npwalters]

Somebody has a funny scaled map if it shows 60 homes within 500 feet.


:1rotfl:

my mistake, I didn't get home until midnight from the meeting and I'm tired. 500 yards.

[Two Bills]

Good thing...................the apartments are not in anyone's backyard.

Probably will be when they are built!

[npwalters]

I will post a separate thread tomorrow with my take away. It is bigger than just HH. The Bottom line for now is it is now in the public record and, hopefully, the developer has a gauge of just how much face they have lost with many residents.

[npwalters]

The adjacent property is looking at a storage shed right now. Most other properties have trees and fairway between them and the apartment site. Only one small 1500sf home is for sale for over $350k. Doesn't look like the sky is falling.

As one resident said last night. Would YOU list one of those 68 homes right now? They are waiting and praying for either Sumter County or the family to reverse course at HH.

[dewilson58]

my mistake, I didn't get home until midnight from the meeting and I'm tired. 500 yards.


No problem.
We are going back & forth on this silly site.

Different views.................but still respect your view & opinion.
Get some sleep tonight.
:ho:

[JSR22]

Unfortunately., I think it is a done deal. The Commissioners who were voted out will vote for the Morse's plan..

[oldtimes]

I will post a separate thread tomorrow with my take away. It is bigger than just HH. The Bottom line for now is it is now in the public record and, hopefully, the developer has a gauge of just how much face they have lost with many residents.

///

[graciegirl]

I will post a separate thread tomorrow with my take away. It is bigger than just HH. The Bottom line for now is it is now in the public record and, hopefully, the developer has a gauge of just how much face they have lost with many residents.

Many of us saw the picture of the people at The Everglades Recreation Center in the online news. It didn't seem like a whole big bunch. Not quite 150. Certainly not the huge bunch others have said. I am really worried because I hope that the new commissioners will not be completely changing the good flow The Villages has had for all the years we've lived here.

What your words feel like to me is that some people enjoy putting down the developers. That their point is to make the Morses appear like the enemy. Most of us do not see that at all. It feels like there is something behind all this that isn't good at all.

The developers did not plan for the restaurant to fail. This seems a reasonable use for the space to me. I see four homes directly impacted. I hope I am right that when this is all done it will be done well and not ugly at all. There won't be children there and it is very likely it will attract part time residents. They most assuredly will be older.

We will see, because it is going to happen. And shouldn't take long. I hope it turns out well.

[tophcfa]

The Planning and Zoning board did a map survey and identified 68 with 500 feet

Wow, 68 homes within 500 feet. A multi story high density rental apartment complex that close to that many single family homes is without a doubt not in harmony with the existing neighborhood and would never pass that litmus test to get zoning approved where I am from up north. Trust me, I know that for certain after four years as a member of the zoning board of appeals. Hell, our driveway up north is 750 feet long. Our Villages home is a couple miles from HH so we are not directly effected, but I feel very sorry for the 68 homeowners in question.

[tophcfa]

Somebody has a funny scaled map if it shows 60 homes within 500 feet.


:1rotfl:

The planning and zoning board would not have sent out the legally required letters to the 68 homes unless they are within the required setback.

[tophcfa]

Why? All of the people who agree with you will still agree and the rest of us who think you are over reacting will still disagree and the developer will still do this anyway.

So what you are saying is that we should just all bend over and say “thank you sir, may I have another”.

[JoMar]

Why? All of the people who agree with you will still agree and the rest of us who think you are over reacting will still disagree and the developer will still do this anyway.

So a resort pool, a restaurant (assume they found someone to operate it) recreation facilities and the golf courses remain. All the "sky is falling" believers used not having any of that as their argument. I am still waiting for comments from the merchants in SS about how bad additional potential customers, more foot traffic and people living closer will hurt their business. Not sure where most of the folks that live in the area came from, but the traffic increase will be minimal since I don't see backed up traffic on any roads in the bubble leading to HH or SS except when I want to drive at 50mph and must struggle with 40. :icon_wink:

[Northwoods]

The planning and zoning board would not have sent out the legally required letters to the 68 homes unless they are within the required setback.

npwalters corrected their comment:
my mistake, I didn't get home until midnight from the meeting and I'm tired. 500 yards.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

As I said before - I don't think having apartments there is a bad thing, per se. I do think that having a 4-storey apartment building there with over 200 units is a bad thing.

If they were similar to the Villas of Spanish Springs (the townhouse condo-style homes that run around $400k), I think people would absolutely love the idea.

But it's not going to be like that at all and no matter how pretty it ends up looking, isolated from the rest of the location, it will not look like it belongs there, when seen from the wider perspective. Just like the hospital nearby is aesthetically beautiful - but I would not want my home to be across the street from it. It is out of place for a single-family detached home neighborhood. And just as the hospital would be out of place if it was surrounded by single family detached homes, a 4-storey apartment building will look out of place surrounded by single family detached homes. And yes it will be taller than some of those trees, and people living on the top floor will absolutely have a good view of the lanais of the people living behind them.

Two floors of duplexes can be made to fit in with the area. Four floors - is just too much.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

the planning and zoning board did a map survey and identified 68 with 500 feet


500 yards

[npwalters]

Many of us saw the picture of the people at The Everglades Recreation Center in the online news. It didn't seem like a whole big bunch. Not quite 150. Certainly not the huge bunch others have said. I am really worried because I hope that the new commissioners will not be completely changing the good flow The Villages has had for all the years we've lived here.

What your words feel like to me is that some people enjoy putting down the developers. That their point is to make the Morses appear like the enemy. Most of us do not see that at all. It feels like there is something behind all this that isn't good at all.

The developers did not plan for the restaurant to fail. This seems a reasonable use for the space to me. I see four homes directly impacted. I hope I am right that when this is all done it will be done well and not ugly at all. There won't be children there and it is very likely it will attract part time residents. They most assuredly will be older.

We will see, because it is going to happen. And shouldn't take long. I hope it turns out well.

I was there. Got there at 5:15 for the 6 o'clock meeting and we got he LAST 3 tickets available to actually get in the room where the meeting took place. The exterior at 5:50 (when I was allowed in) was overflowing. Many folks could not find a place to sit or stand and hear the speakers set up in the lobby and left in frustration. Bear in mind this was at Everglades Recreation Center. South of the turnpike. well away from the areas actually being discussed, and not golf cart accessible to any but those living south of the turnpike. But don't take my word for it. Read the paper - the REAL paper - not the Village Sun.

Yes, those in attendance either have no respect for the current Morse generation or downright dislike them. And why not? They are ripping apart an area established about 25 years ago KNOWING the residents are vehemently opposed. There are MANY other places TV could build apartments that are NOT in long developed areas.

You pretend to be a very nice lady that only wants the best for everyone. I want to believe that. However, when your posts say ONLY 4 (your number - Sumter county says 68) folks will have their 25 year homes torn asunder I have to wonder. One is too many. It is a move made by the current Morse generation that is not necessary.

Perhaps you need to take a short break and do some introspection.

[graciegirl]

As I said before - I don't think having apartments there is a bad thing, per se. I do think that having a 4-storey apartment building there with over 200 units is a bad thing.

If they were similar to the Villas of Spanish Springs (the townhouse condo-style homes that run around $400k), I think people would absolutely love the idea.

But it's not going to be like that at all and no matter how pretty it ends up looking, isolated from the rest of the location, it will not look like it belongs there, when seen from the wider perspective. Just like the hospital nearby is aesthetically beautiful - but I would not want my home to be across the street from it. It is out of place for a single-family detached home neighborhood. And just as the hospital would be out of place if it was surrounded by single family detached homes, a 4-storey apartment building will look out of place surrounded by single family detached homes. And yes it will be taller than some of those trees, and people living on the top floor will absolutely have a good view of the lanais of the people living behind them.

Two floors of duplexes can be made to fit in with the area. Four floors - is just too much.

I haven't read anything about four story apartments being built on the Hacienda Hills torn down area. The Lofts at Brownwood are three storey. See here?

youtube. the lofts at Brownwood, goldwingnut - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube.+the+lofts+at+Brownwood%2c+goldwi ngnut&docid=608012909481165086&mid=CB3597196606F0CE7092CB3597196606F0CE7092&view=detail&FORM=VIRE)

[npwalters]

500 yards

I corrected that early on but I guess the large type bolded really s
ealed the deal. Sheesh.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I was there. Got there at 5:15 for the 6 o'clock meeting and we got he LAST 3 tickets available to actually get in the room where the meeting took place. The exterior at 5:50 (when I was allowed in) was overflowing. Many folks could not find a place to sit or stand and hear the speakers set up in the lobby and left in frustration. Bear in mind this was at Everglades Recreation Center. South of the turnpike. well away from the areas actually being discussed, and not golf cart accessible to any but those living south of the turnpike. But don't take my word for it. Read the paper - the REAL paper - not the Village Sun.

Yes, those in attendance either have no respect for the current Morse generation or downright dislike them. And why not? They are ripping apart an area established about 25 years ago KNOWING the residents are vehemently opposed. There are MANY other places TV could build apartments that are NOT in long developed areas.

You pretend to be a very nice lady that only wants the best for everyone. I want to believe that. However, when your posts say ONLY 4 (your number - Sumter county says 68) folks will have their 25 year homes torn asunder I have to wonder. One is too many. It is a move made by the current Morse generation that is not necessary.

Perhaps you need to take a short break and do some introspection.

To be fair (I know, I hate reading that at the start of a response too but if it's fitting, it's fitting):

Saying that 25-year homes will be "torn asunder" is around 31 flavors of hyperbole. Take a step back, take a deep breath.

Yes the backs of these homes will have a different view, and it will be a view they don't want, don't like, and object to. Yes, a 4-floor 200+-unit apartment complex will be a severe change from what was there, and yes, it will change the entire perspective and "feel" of the area it's in.

But no, no one's home is being "torn asunder." That is your emotions speaking, and it's emotions that get in the way of pragmatic discussion.

Things don't have to stay the same. Life progresses, people should at least try to keep up. But drastic changes such as this apartment complex are upsetting too many neighbors who will have to live with those changes. That is what people should be objecting to, and it's the zoning of the property that needs to be addressed and discussed.

[npwalters]

This was ignored by she who shall not be named when I posted it the first time.

Here is a hypothetical. The developer can take a hole on the Arnold Palmer Course and place multi-story apartments on the site. They could actually do this since they own that property. The Sumter County Planning and Zoning board just stated Monday night that all the areas "around Sumter Landing" are NOT restricted to to single family homes.

So lets place the hypothetical building as shown. It has wetlands to the south, a horse farm to the north, a golf course to the east, and it ONLY adjoins 4 homes. Do you think the residents of Bridgeport at Laurel Valley would be opposed. Do you think the most fervent fan of the current Morse generation would be opposed?

I think that the holier than thou "it will be fine and the sky is not falling" folks that live in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley would have a conniption fit. I will never know because it is too close to the Morse compound.

[JoMar]

This was ignored by she who shall not be named when I posted it the first time.

Here is a hypothetical. The developer can take a hole on the Arnold Palmer Course and place multi-story apartments on the site. They could actually do this since they own that property. The Sumter County Planning and Zoning board just stated Monday night that all the areas "around Sumter Landing" are NOT restricted to to single family homes.

So lets place the hypothetical building as shown. It has wetlands to the south, a horse farm to the north, a golf course to the east, and it ONLY adjoins 4 homes. Do you think the residents of Bridgeport at Laurel Valley would be opposed. Do you think the most fervent fan of the current Morse generation would be opposed?

I think that the holier than thou "it will be fine and the sky is not falling" folks that live in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley would have a conniption fit. I will never know because it is too close to the Morse compound.

Hypothetical....otherwise known as stir the pot for fun.

[npwalters]

I haven't read anything about four story apartments being built on the Hacienda Hills torn down area. The Lofts at Brownwood are three storey. See here?

youtube. the lofts at Brownwood, goldwingnut - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube.+the+lofts+at+Brownwood%2c+goldwi ngnut&docid=608012909481165086&mid=CB3597196606F0CE7092CB3597196606F0CE7092&view=detail&FORM=VIRE)

The developers attorney confirmed up to a 50 foot - four story building.

[dewilson58]

I haven't read anything about four story apartments being built on the Hacienda Hills torn down area.


It's only about 25 feet taller than the prior structure. No Big Deal.


I have to laugh at the concern about the lanai peepers. With all the kissing lanai's in The Villages and people are worried about maybe 70 more pairs of eyes. :shocked: