Sept 22, 200,000 Dead from Covid 19 in the US

[T186021]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?

[Dana1963]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?
Plain IGNORANCE, anti science, anti mask this is going to get political.

[Bucco]

Plain IGNORANCE, anti science, anti mask this is going to get political.

"Get p....." is exactly why we lead the entire world in disappointment and shock in this ongoing pandemic.

I am more dissapointed that it appears many citizens of our country don't care.

Harsh judgement, I know, but quotes and actions is all that I, and the world can see or hear.

[Velvet]

What does this have to do with Golf? :shrug:

Fewer people to play?

But, it is shocking, especially to the families and friends of those who passed away. We are no longer innocent, with respect to this new virus.

[Bucco]

Fewer people to play?

But it is shocking, especially to the families and friends of those who passed away.

It has affected old, young, rich, poor, all races, all heritages, virtually everybody in some way.

And frankly, I think it is far from over

[mtdjed]

Knocking on wood, but I do not know personally any one who has died from COVID or for that matter anyone who has even had Covid.

[Topspinmo]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?


Well, I’m doing my part. So what was we not doing?

[JimJohnson]

Please follow the science. Covid deaths prove it is not a hoax!

[Bwolf1]

It is about honest reporting of the numbers. The United States and Euro Nations Have honestly reported numbers. It ends there. China in some honest outside estimates may have lost millions to this terrible crisis. Most third world countries have no statistical tracking at all and Russia will never tell the truth if it makes them look bad. Therefore these figures are at best totally bogus. We won’t know the true figures for years and with the corruption of our news media, even then the “truth” will be suspect.

[matandch]

Through ignorance , arrogance and hubris.

[Cranford61]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?
We, the 5%ers, also create 27% of worlds greenhouses gasses. Not a good world citizen. Connection?

[Vonjor@gmail.com]

So many of the people with co-morbidities could have lived for years if they hadn’t contracted COVID. Yes, they were sick, but they died of COVID, and rightfully should have been classified as a COVID death.

[mrrmauu]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?

Are all countries using the same criteria? We need an apples to apples comparison.

[reg331]

Did they die FROM the virus or WITH the virus? Big difference!

[ficoguy]

You forget China and India...

[ruralgoddess]

Knocking on wood, but I do not know personally any one who has died from COVID or for that matter anyone who has even had Covid.

I do...but is it necessary for someone to know somebody personally to take this pandemic seriously? Surely not.

[biker1]

You are off by about a factor of 2. China is number 1 at 27% and the US is number 2 at 15%.

We, the 5%ers, also create 27% of worlds greenhouses gasses. Not a good world citizen. Connection?

[biker1]

The pre-Covid death rate was pretty constant. If you really want to know how many people have died from COVID, either directly or indirectly, look at the difference in the number of deaths on a month-by-month basis between 2019 and 2020. You need to dig a little bit but the data is out there.

True. They can die of terminal cancer that they've had for months or maybe years but if they catch this virus, bang, their death is blamed on Covid 19.

[Raton270]

Always follow the Money. 👍

[SacDQ]

There is no way that third world countries are accurately and honestly counting Covid 19 deaths. Then you have India and China with No value what so ever for the lower class in there populations, they don’t even treat them let alone count the dead from covin.

[Dana1963]

Because anyone who has died in the last 6 months is being deemed COVID realted in order to inflate the numbers and scare the pants off of you, that's why. In New York City, 7,000 deaths in the month of February ( normal mortality ) were reclassified from "unknown" to COVID, so Cuomo could cry about poor NYC.... My neice and nephew went to a testing center in FL. They signed in but the wait was too long so they bailed out. A week later they got test results - POSITIVE for CV19. No amount of arguing could convince the lab otherwise. Multiply this by a couple thousand times and add the coefficient of government incompetence and thats how you get the numbers.
I’ve heard the same testing story from Ri, Mass and Michigan it’s BS to create distrust in the system.

[Tennisnut]

You are off by about a factor of 2. China is number 1 at 27% and the US is number 2 at 15%.

and China has 3 times the population and is a net manufacturing exporter. China is 2000 kg of oil eq vs 7000 kg of oil eq per capita.

[ficoguy]

Big pharma and biotech needed a boost....so many drugs for itching, scratching and cholesterol going off patent.....so, lets look at what companies are benefitting from the situation...I can see Merlin in Medieval England cooking up a cure for bubonic plague in his lab...."sire, ye shall have an elixer by Christmas"

[Sunflower33]

Beautifully said thank you

[Tennisnut]

Well thought out article on Covid in today's paper that I hope some don't think it is fake news.

[DavidStockhausen]

Deaths are recorded “Covid Related” because hospitals are getting supplements for this. Last week 9 deaths reported in this area, 6 were over 80, 2 over 70, 1 in 50’s!

[biker1]

We are higher than China on a per capita basis because we are more industrialized. China is still a third world country. However, I was responding to the incorrect information in the post.

and China has 3 times the population and is a net manufacturing exporter. China is 2000 kg of oil eq vs 7000 kg of oil eq per capita.

[Mohawksin]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?

Why, because the US put a bounty on Covid deaths which inlates the "deaths related to Covid", and the rest of the world historically under reports actual data either because of policy or technology shortages.

[davem4616]

sounds like folks are gaming the system

and who can trust that all countries are counting the exact same way...and even counting accurately

only number that is important to me is my wife's and my own....and we're playing it safe

[billethkid]

Plus the lack of making certain precautions mandatory and not enforcing the recommendations.

Bounty for deaths plus lack of strict basic precautions.

USA covid-19 numbers demonstrate the "let's not upset anybody" mode of management does not work.

No mystery to end results.

[meridian5850]

Knocking on wood, but I do not know personally any one who has died from COVID or for that matter anyone who has even had Covid.

Same here.

[Bob.Betty]

Totally agree, I know of more than one instance of following the $$$

[MDLNB]

Answers to several points mentioned. Not "anti-science" just anti-mass hysteria.
I agree with the statement that too many of the deaths were attributed to the virus. A relative in the hospital for heart surgery (one of many) died on the table and deemed virus was the cause. BS!
I would like to see the numbers of yearly average deaths in the U.S. and compare them to this years. Just my opinion but I bet they wouldn't be too far off from the norm.
Time to get off the political blame and just accept that we have a illness pandemic in this country that came from China, whether weaponized or not that has caused a lot of damage and panic. Isn't the first time and wont' be the last.
No one is suggesting that the virus is a hoax. That is just political pundit language used to shore up a weak election year rhetoric.

[Squid48]

You are very lucky.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

We, the 5%ers, also create 27% of worlds greenhouses gasses. Not a good world citizen. Connection?

Having lived in and visited Asia I wonder why their air quality to so much worse than ours.

[Angieflynn]

Agreed

[Guitarman1951]

I highly doubt any numbers from other countries who probably suppress the real numbers out of economic impact fears. Our numbers have been proven to be highly suspect as to actual cause of death and probably overstated. I'm not saying we should let our guard down but I don't think we haven't been doing anything less than any other country to fight or control the virus. Different areas of the country, especially more non urban areas have much less infections while urban areas have a much greater rate and require greater attention to virus protection measures.

[Singerlady]

Bryan is CORRECT. I watched a press conf from a midwest county 2 weeks ago, and the health director said words to the effect of......going by the tules of the CDC, if we execute a person for capital murder, and that person has COVID, the cause of death is COVID....
So, we cannot compare our numbers to other countries. A friend in VA had a neighbor fall off a ladder and hit his head on the concrete and died. He was tested for COVID in the hospital, had it, and my friend saw the death certificate showing cause of death as COVID 19. It is real, but it is not as bad as those numbers suggest.

We can Compare our number of Covid deaths, it’s called per capita.

[Singerlady]

You are so right Brian, if every death reported as Covid19 that really wasn't Covid19 was deleted from the statistics it would probably be a number close to half of what has been reported. Shameful, misleading and greedy on the part of health care officials.

Thinking the death WAS Covid with complicating factors (diabetes, heart issues, etc. ). Wondering if the death certificates make note of that. Also wonder if doctors have to make a decision that the complicating factor wasn’t bad enough BEFORE Covid to have died that prematurely. Maybe a little subjective?

[Joe C.]

200,000 deaths out of 326 million people is not catastrophic. There were 200,000 deaths, but I honestly believe that they all weren't from the pandemic. I don't believe in CDC figures, as IMHO, they "pad" them in order to command a bigger budget for their operation. Besides, most of them were caused by underlying medical conditions. How many people in the U.S. die from all causes in the course of a year?

Some countries reported lower deaths, but then again, they put lockdown restrictions on their population. We live in the
U.S.A. ...a "free" country. Our freedoms are what makes us unique and a leader in this world. We won't be held in shackles and give in like people in China and other countries do. So even if we have higher numbers, it's the price of liberty.

[bp243]

Really good question! Our directives have been divisive and those who follow the recommendations of scientists need to continue doing so.

[Kgcetm]

It would appear that we can either count better than other countries or we can't count well at all. The truth is probably in the middle. Our count is simply wrong. Other countries may have lower counts but be equally wrong.

[Villages Kahuna]

You know the answer to your question, as does everyone who has stayed awake for the last six months.

[brunogal]

The Civil Discourse Club in The V recently hosted a Zoom meeting w/a former CDC employee giving an update on Covid. It's a great club to join to receive pertinent info on many subjects. Pertinent to Covid were some valid points:
*Due to a lack of clear messaging, 2 countries suffer: US & Spain (Spain recently handed virus control to 'regional' govts to their peril)
*In Korea now, easy tests are similar to a pregnancy test (available at Dollar General)
*Across the world, there are over 200 possible vacs in development.
*60-70% of population needs to be vaccinated or recovered for herd immunity. As of now, only 2% have been exposed.
*Virus not changing as quickly as normal flu virus. In S. Africa where they are currently going through regular 'flu' season, it's not nearly as severe, thanks mostly to masking already taking place for Covid.
*Estimates vacs availability April 2021 earliest.
*Convalescent plasma has NOT been effective.
*Regarding govt. payments to hospitals for Covid diagnoses: They do NOT receive payment if patient admitted w/pre-existing condition.
*Initial messaging from the CDC was diluted dramatically.
*One metric used to determine Covid deaths is average of TOTAL deaths (car accidents, suicide, cancer, heart attack, etc) in same time frame year-to-year. It doesn't change much EXCEPT for this year where, sometime ago, deaths were up over 200,000. This points to Covid deaths actually being underreported.

[MDLNB]

Actually, according to one study the death rate is lower since the pandemic than it was from 2014 through 2018. I got this info from Macrotrends so I can not attest to the veracity of the information.

[toeser]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?

The U.S. is the most traveled country on the planet, both domestically and internationally. Our vibrant economy and standard of living were direct contributors to the spread because of our ability to travel, eat out, etc. Plus, Americans tend not to be very good rules followers. Even today, with all the recommendations that have been made on mask wearing, millions don't wear them. You can try to make this political, but the simple fact is that the problem is us.

[ldivens]

Why does the US have on 2% exposed after 6 months or more? Was it because we locked down? Some doctors I've heard say this would only delay herd immunity and it sounds feasible at this point.

[justjim]

Follow the money. If someone dies with heart disease, diabetes, stroke, etc. and they also have the China Virus, hospitals report the cause of death as the China Virus. Why? Because they get reimbursed more. Not so in other countries. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

You said it plain that they had the virus. Many of us over our lifetime have had heart issues , stroke and some diabetes, and if you get Covid 19 it makes you vulnerable and you could likely die. Wear a mask, social distance and wash your hands. If we all did that from March-April many lives would have been saved. It’s science pure and simple.

[Burgy]

We, the 5%ers, also create 27% of worlds greenhouses gasses. Not a good world citizen. Connection?

I agree. We travel too much, fly too much, use up resources. And we live in a democracy that perhaps allowed too much freedom of expression and ignorance to the problem. I am a retired physician and thought it was crazy when the CDC wasn't saying wear masks at the start. Most but still not enough Villagers are acting safely but it's pretty easy to walk and play golf and not work.

[JOLIVERIO]

There is no documented proof that hospitals, as a whole, are reporting all deaths being associated with Covid-19. Maybe some, but they would be in the minority. Yes, people have other critical diseases but if COVID-19 exasperates the condition which ultimately causes the death, then the death is caused by COVID-19. In other words, if the person did not contact COVID-19, they wouldn’t have died at this time.

[BethBowen]

Die of covid or with covid and you still are dead. If you get pneumonia and already have heart problems, the pneumonia may push you over the edge.
What killed you? Would the person have lived longer if they didn't get pneumonia?
200000 deaths.
Glad no one close to you died.

[Two Bills]

Did they die FROM the virus or WITH the virus? Big difference!

Hard to say either way.
But.
They did die because of it.
200,000 of them!

[JimJohnson]

Follow the money. If someone dies with heart disease, diabetes, stroke, etc. and they also have the China Virus, hospitals report the cause of death as the China Virus. Why? Because they get reimbursed more. Not so in other countries. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

If you are trying to make a comment about Covid 19, then saying they died of Covid 19 When in fact they did have the Virus, then they are reporting it correctly. Having heart disease, diabetes, stroke, etc. would not have been The probable cause of death, Covid 19 would be the correct reporting.

[Hogfan55]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?

Could it be because we are a much more developed country and have the means to travel and we depend on commerce much more than those in 3rd world countries that rarely leave their homes and villages? All developed countries are doing worse than the undeveloped. Perfectly understandable but still sad.

[MaxCat]

Same here.

Well, then you are very lucky. Many of us do know of those who have had Covid as well as those who have passed away from Covid. Very disturbing the insensitivity of some of the remarks on this thread bashing the numbers being reported as a selfish reason to minimize the impact of this terrible pandemic. Those who have lost a loved one to this know it IS real and feel their loss in immeasurable ways.

[graciegirl]

Have read that the CDC said that only 6% of deaths are only due to the virus. The rest had underlying health issues that the virus, obviously, didn’t help. That’s 12,000 deaths directly tied to the virus.

If not for Covid-19 those people would still be alive. Covid-19 is new to all humans and makes them sick or not depending on their bodies defenses. Older people, even if they had no "health issues" (which would be almost impossible) are the most vulnerable and people who live in The Villages would be at risk in varying degrees due to age.

I don't understand this kind of rationale. All of those flags you saw stuck in the ground on last night's news in Washington on the mall, all 200,000 of those flags represent people who would be alive. They did die of Covid-19.

[dadoiron]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?
It's very unfortunate but you just can't fix stupid. It's a fact. Seems the majority of the deaths were caused by individuals who just can't think for themselves in a smart way and ended up killing family members. Sad.

[Two Bills]

What the CDC actually said was that for 6% of the deaths COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned, as opposed to several comorbidities also being mentioned. The reality is that 80% of the deaths are people over the age of 65 and the majority of those have comorbidities.

Correct.
....and 200,000 deaths were because of Covid.

[Masterchin]

96 percent would still be alive had they not had COVID-19. I too have four Doctors I’m close with and all have confirmed that hospitals DONT get paid more for a positive COVID death. Really amazing people believe politicians over science. The latest one I heard was mask don’t work. That’s why Doctors and nurses wear them every day. Twenty six years USAF and I thought During times of crisis we’re supposed to join together and generally care about fellow Americans. We pick politics over family, over country, over neighbors. We’re okay with lies and dishonest politicians as long as it serves our purpose. We should demand better from our leaders and if we don’t get it we vote them out. Leaders are supposed to unite us not divide us. Divided we will fall!

[golfing eagles]

If not for Covid-19 those people would still be alive. Covid-19 is new to all humans and makes them sick or not depending on their bodies defenses. Older people, even if they had no "health issues" (which would be almost impossible) are the most vulnerable and people who live in The Villages would be at risk in varying degrees due to age.

I don't understand this kind of rationale. All of those flags you saw stuck in the ground on last night's news in Washington on the mall, all 200,000 of those flags represent people who would be alive. They did die of Covid-19.


Sorry GG, but I have to disagree with you. SOME of those people would be alive (but for how long?), SOME died of COVID-19. We simply don't have good data to go by. There is tremendous financial incentive to hospitals to list COVID-19 as a cause of hospitalization and/or death. Every hospital has coding specialists that do nothing but take ALL the diagnoses on a patient chart and list them in the proper ORDER to maximize reimbursement. As you can imagine, COVID ranks high on the list, perhaps as much as $13,000 additional revenue. It makes financial sense, otherwise they are just leaving money on the table.
Death certificates are different, they are filled out by the physician, although on occasion these coding experts have asked me to change to order in which I wrote it. Needless to say, I invited them to perform a reproductive act upon themselves. :1rotfl:

[Mark Letti]

USA population 330,000,000 divided by 200,000= 0.0006% of the population in USA have died of COVID.... and of those who died a high % are over 60 years old...
I’m sorry but those numbers do not require a shout down of our economy and lives.

[Keysers]

I find it hard to believe healthcare professionals across this nation are conspiring to fake the number of Covid deaths. In a nursing near my Mom, 33 patients died over a 10 day period of symptoms consistent with Covid. They only reported 11 because the other 22 were not able to get tested. They were not counted as cases or deaths! I believe the count could actually be low. I also believe Covid is the cause of death if the person would be alive had they not contracted Covid.

[graciegirl]

Leaving politics and blame out if this, most of us were aware enough of the great danger of Covid-19 after seeing the on the news the huge number of people dying from it in other parts of the world.

It began in China and we began to hear about it in the last part of 2019, but in the early months it was happening so fast that it was impossible to get figures and facts on the deaths and the awful illnesses clogging hospitals with people unable to breathe and to get oxygen into their systems.

Severe illness began to be noticed in NYC in February. By March, thousands of people began to die in NYC. Not even medical experts knew exactly what to do and how to stop the spread. Many people are now being blamed for not knowing WHAT to do but at the beginning, even the people and agencies that we have always relied on were struggling for understanding.

Following fast on the heels of fear and uncertainty, came conspiracy figures and big mouth politicians.

What a mess. I look at our daughter who lives in London. The figures for the U.K. are much better than ours and their government has been much stricter; fines harsher, and punishments greater.

We will never know. Some people don't care about rules and laws and would ignore them no matter who issued the rules. Some people, too many, do not have even a basic comprehension about communicable disease.

I see people acting to me in a reasonable manner being taunted by others for wearing masks.

What is good is that most people aren't fooled and "get" the science of being careful and respecting this awful virus.

[Two Bills]

Leaving politics and blame out if this, most of us were aware enough of the great danger of Covid-19 after seeing the on the news the huge number of people dying from it in other parts of the world.

It began in China and we began to hear about it in the last part of 2019, but in the early months it was happening so fast that it was impossible to get figures and facts on the deaths and the awful illnesses clogging hospitals with people unable to breathe and to get oxygen into their systems.

Severe illness began to be noticed in NYC in February. By March, thousands of people began to die in NYC. Not even medical experts knew exactly what to do and how to stop the spread. Many people are now being blamed for not knowing WHAT to do but at the beginning, even the people and agencies that we have always relied on were struggling for understanding.

Following fast on the heels of fear and uncertainty, came conspiracy figures and big mouth politicians.

What a mess. I look at our daughter who lives in London. The figures for the U.K. are much better than ours and their government has been much stricter; fines harsher, and punishments greater.

We will never know. Some people don't care about rules and laws and would ignore them no matter who issued the rules. Some people, too many, do not have even a basic comprehension about communicable disease.

I see people acting to me in a reasonable manner being taunted by others for wearing masks.

What is good is that most people aren't fooled and "get" the science of being careful and respecting this awful virus.

GG. Things in UK are not as good as you may think.
Our numbers are pretty abysmal, and now we face the second wave, with numbers rising every day, and doubling every 7 days
The latest effort to control the virus seems to rely on the pubs closing at 10pm. and everyone being nice to each other.
I am sure it will work fine!:ohdear:

[sloanst]

It's a virus for Pete's sake. We don't hear this type of rhetoric during a flu season when up to 80,000 die. Usually it takes 2.5 years to create a vaccine. From all reports I have read, we will have a Covid-19 vaccine within a couple of months. That will be only about a year or a little less from the start of this in the US to vaccine production. The manufacturing facilities and distribution networks were ramped up months ago and are ready to go. We are a free country and people do as they please. You can not expect a free people to be locked down. They won't stand for it and there is no basis in law to allow it. These are the consequences of freedom. To place blame for an act of nature on anyone is simply immature and childish. The only person you can control is yourself.

COVID-19 Charts (https://www.covidcharts.com/)

[Bucco]

Yes. Has anyone ever heard an explanation from Woodward who, after being given this information from the horse’s mouth, chose to keep it quiet since March? Would things have been better if Woodward had blown the whistle and released this tape immediately?

Bob Woodward is NOT our President.

Our President has the responsibility.....

Why oh why are we always and continually looking to blame someone else.

Why cannot the "cultists" (I use that word now because have been convinced) ever see the wrongs.

Woodward would have been EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE to say anything as a journalists and you guys would have called him fake news, etc. Loudly

[biker1]

No. The actual number of deaths (by any cause) are widely available. Again, if you want to know the number of deaths caused by COVID-19, compare the actual number of total deaths, month-by-month, from 2019 to 2020. Since death rates are pretty stable, any increase is due to COVID-19.

It's election year, and by November no one will have died, or the total will be in the millions, depending on the parties take on the numbers.
Meanwhile there have been a lot of funerals that would not have taken place if the virus had not come through.

[Thomas Schreiber]

There are more than 400000 deaths from heart attacks and more than 300000 from cancer in 2020. Why isn't that headline news?

[graciegirl]

Sorry GG, but I have to disagree with you. SOME of those people would be alive (but for how long?), SOME died of COVID-19. We simply don't have good data to go by. There is tremendous financial incentive to hospitals to list COVID-19 as a cause of hospitalization and/or death. Every hospital has coding specialists that do nothing but take ALL the diagnoses on a patient chart and list them in the proper ORDER to maximize reimbursement. As you can imagine, COVID ranks high on the list, perhaps as much as $13,000 additional revenue. It makes financial sense, otherwise they are just leaving money on the table.
Death certificates are different, they are filled out by the physician, although on occasion these coding experts have asked me to change to order in which I wrote it. Needless to say, I invited them to perform a reproductive act upon themselves. :1rotfl:

I think I understand what you are saying and I really don't care if the hospitals get more money by using their coding and I don't really like people, even doctors, who I respect and admire, saying things like "for how long". I am 80. Assuredly not for a whole lot longer but I find life just as satisfying and exciting and worthwhile and full as I ever did. You will too Doc. No need to feel bad. I do understand the point you are making.

The bottom line is this, but for Covid-19, many, many, many, many people would not have died ...in the last seven months.

[graciegirl]

There are more than 400000 deaths from heart attacks and more than 300000 from cancer in 2020. Why isn't that headline news?

Because of all those folks who died we now have a new cause of death. That is why.

[golfing eagles]

I think I understand what you are saying and I really don't care if the hospitals get more money by using their coding and I don't really like people, even doctors, who I respect and admire, saying things like "for how long". I am 80. Assuredly not for a whole lot longer but I find life just as satisfying and exciting and worthwhile and full as I ever did. You will too Doc. No need to feel bad. I do understand the point you are making.

The bottom line is this, but for Covid-19, many, many, many, many people would not have died ...in the last seven months.

That's true. And BTW, my comment "for how long" had nothing to do with age and everything to due with their underlying health. A person with a 15% LVEF has about 2 months, a person with stage 4 pancreatic ca 4-5 months, maybe. If they get sick with COVID, it will probably kill them. If they just test positive without additional symptoms, maybe not.

PS. I think you'll live to 110

[jklfairwin]

Not exactly true. Thttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/ BTW there is no patient for which the hospital receives $0 - they receive whatever Medicare pays under a very complicated formula. Many hospital admisistrators game the system all the time on all sorts of admissions to get the most money; that is their job.

[loweglor]

We are keenly aware of deaths from heart attacks and cancer. A deadly virus? Not so aware and certainly not protected.

[Carla B]

Not exactly true. Thttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/ BTW there is no patient for which the hospital receives $0 - they receive whatever Medicare pays under a very complicated formula. Many hospital admisistrators game the system all the time on all sorts of admissions to get the most money; that is their job.

And, regarding private insurance, insurance companies hire lawyers and doctors to pick apart claims to find to find reasons they can breach their contracts. One of my family members works for a large hospital chain and for over five years had the job to fight Aetna, a "bad payer," to get claims paid. At least Medicare pays timely.

[Carla B]

That’s funny, nobody I know and nobody that knows them know of anyone who has died or even had the virus, strange I tell ya!

I know of people who have had it and I don't know a lot of people.

[brunogal]

USA population 330,000,000 divided by 200,000= 0.0006% of the population in USA have died of COVID.... and of those who died a high % are over 60 years old...
I’m sorry but those numbers do not require a shout down of our economy and lives.
Or you can look at it this way: USA has 4.2% of the world's population but 20% of the world's Covid deaths thus far, the highest of any country. Not proud.

[T186021]

Cover 19 is real, death due 2 and related 2 Covid 19 is real, The US reactions and responses to the pandemic is unacceptable for a country with our resources. Can we please do 1 thing correctly related 2 Covid 19.

WEAR A MASK AND SOCIAL DISTANCING WHEN IN PUBLIC!

[golfing eagles]

Or you can look at it this way: USA has 4.2% of the world's population but 20% of the world's Covid deaths thus far, the highest of any country. Not proud.

OK, so what would you have done differently? Ignore Fauci and Birx??? Create a panic with gloom and doom talk??? Use psychic ability to know the facts about the virus before they were discovered? Even Monday morning quarterbacking is difficult with this one.

There are many reasons for the US to have a higher percentage of deaths---mobile population, genetically diverse, frontier mentality, distrust of authority---pick one or more.

[JimJohnson]

ok, just hear me out, please: we know the fl board of health messed up many results, we also know the 'cases' they are finding aren't all 'active infections,' they are looking for anti-bodies, per attendant in covid testing line. it is my assumption, yes assumption, that many are counting the positive anti-body results as active infections. it depends on who you ask.
there was a line of over 30 cars ystrday @ walgreens on kristine way. i doubt everyone in the cars were 'sick', they did not appear to be. it's the constant use of misinformation that causes many like myself to question what is posed in the news. OR you could just say, 'i'm wearing the new Pelosi style blow-out mask', it's there, you just can't see it, :icon_wink:

I wish you were right, but your not. The best and most accurate responses to this thread have been from GraceGirl. She is correct, Nonpartisan and clearly understands Covid 19 and it’s danger to all ages and all states of health!!!! Thank you GracieGirl.

[donaviv]

We are the the largest free society in the world. We have many INDEPENDENT thinkers . Many never wore a mask or washed their hands. The president had many protective services that kept people at a distance. Most of us had to depend on our FELLOW man ( thus..the problem!) to follow some easy guidelines. Only a fool can think that the nations businesses could remain closed for months on end and not have ENORMOUS financial crisis and closures. We are free and that means there is always a risk. But...I'll take our way of life over any dictatorial government planning my life!

[jjombrello]

It's because the numbers are inflated. They include those who died with Covid but from other causes. Should only be those that died from Covid to be a true account. A big difference!

[jebartle]

If 50,000 had not died in Ny and NJ the stats are more in line with rest of the world. More importantly or freedoms allow us to travel and interact more. The blame should be squarely on China. They knew it was a highly contagious disease. They quantified their travel to their cities BUY allowed citizens to travel out! Simply a bio attack on the world

Sooooo, China is responsible for OUR REVOLVING DOOR???? Hmmmm!

[Miguel 1952]

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?

Money! The insurance companies and government are paying for Covid deaths.

[oldtimes]

OK, so what would you have done differently? Ignore Fauci and Birx??? Create a panic with gloom and doom talk??? Use psychic ability to know the facts about the virus before they were discovered? Even Monday morning quarterbacking is difficult with this one.

There are many reasons for the US to have a higher percentage of deaths---mobile population, genetically diverse, frontier mentality, distrust of authority---pick one or more.

Thank you for your knowledgeable and sensible posts. I believe no one had any idea about this virus in the beginning and everyone was just guessing. I’ll go with frontier mentality.

[chet2020]

200,000 deaths is no big deal. It's only old people and sick people dying. We would have died anyway. No reason for anyone in The VIllages to worry. "It affects virtually nobody" according the man in charge, best to downplay it. We old people should "take one for the team." Besides, the 200,000 number is not real. There are 200,000+ excess deaths this year, but that's a coincidence. It's just the flu. Best to continue on our current path, we're a model to the world. /S

[Bucco]

200,000 deaths is no big deal. It's only old people and sick people dying. We would have died anyway. No reason for anyone in The VIllages to worry. "It affects virtually nobody" according the man in charge, best to downplay it. We old people should "take one for the team." Besides, the 200,000 number is not real. There are 200,000+ excess deaths this year, but that's a coincidence. It's just the flu. Best to continue on our current path, we're a model to the world. /S

Love your sarcasm. We have ceased being a model to anyone, and are now the butt of jokes...as with any disoriented third world country.

I hear so much going through our capital that I won't repeat, but it is plain scary...the plans being made and such. Some news outlets are hinting and reporting, but not something to repeat unless validated beyond what I hear, but it is some scary stuff.

The cultist will be part.

[oldtimes]

Did you hear how it was described to POTUS in late January/early February by intelligence. POTUS recollection.....this is the biggest national security threat you will see ever. His words...and it is much stronger than any flue, and it travels in the air.

In public, he continued to downplay, and even said "it will dissipate by April" knowing that was a lie. His comments about it traveling by air was to continually, and still, mock that effort, while refusing to set an example.

Just a few examples of opportunities to perhaps save lives, squandered, all the while not hiding his making it about politics.

This is not Monday morning quarterbacking...it is simply using his own words and showing the deceit used by his office.

Your assumption is desperate and defies logic. We have been without guidance from our lead from the beginning.

Joining in booing that Lt. Gov for wearing a mask, yelling how it basically effects nobody is not leadership....it is a game show move.

But are we actually saving lives or are we just delaying the deaths? The places that locked down did see their numbers go down but now they are going back up. Science still does not fully understand this virus.

[jimjamuser]

It’s sad that New York n New Jersey had 1/4 of all deaths. Nursing homes, homeless, prisoners had the greatest of numbers. I remember when they told us maybe 2.4 million may die. Glad that didn’t happen! We won’t know exactly as they have changed, and predicted lots of crazy things. Covid has shown we Americans are gullible on so many fronts. However it’s a tragedy if only one person has passed because of this Covid 19. One thing for sure I believe we are more mindful of washing hands, wiping down grocery cart handles and so on. You can think of many changes that possibly you have made. Did Covid come from China, a lab, a bat, bad oysters off the Asian coast? Many tested positive (many times) and some tested positive and were never tested. Every crazy thought and idea came out of this C 19. It has changed the world on so many fronts. Even I had thoughts of living on a cruise ship for months on end lol. To travel the world and be pampered for life! Lol I surely haven’t thought of that Wild idea lately. Let us who found disagreements through all this get back to being kind again to all and enjoy our last years on this great earth that God created. Hopefully C 19 will be behind us soon and normalcies prevail.
Yes, that would be a nice HOPE, but the reality is different. In the US, CV cases are UP 15% in the last 10 days. There are 200,000 DEAD and most medical scientists expect that to double to 400,000 DEAD by Dec 31, 2020. Meanwhile, in Japan, S. Korea, Australia, and New Zealand, CV is practically non-existant and life is normal. Why are they so smart? They believe in science. Science tells them to wear masks. Unlike the US, they listen to their scientists and leaders. They do NOT have a "cowboy mentality" throughout society. It is all about masks and mentality. We should have been ssssoooo much better! And you can forget that vaccine that is riding in on some white horse. The medical scientists say that masks are better than a vaccine.

[Aloha1]

Amazed that this thread is still up with all the partisan sniping. We have one group brow beating the other, insisting that only they are right. We have another group arguing that the first group is wrong and won't listen to "the facts". In the middle are a few voices of reason. Conclusion: This thread is going nowhere fast and at best appears to catharsis for some.

My take is very simple, do the right thing to protect yourself and your loved ones. Wear a mask, wash your hands, and stay out of crowds. You do not need to listen to ANY politician or the media, just use common sense assuming that still exists.

This too shall pass as so many pandemics have before. Be a role model for others in the meantime.

[jimjamuser]

Follow the money. If someone dies with heart disease, diabetes, stroke, etc. and they also have the China Virus, hospitals report the cause of death as the China Virus. Why? Because they get reimbursed more. Not so in other countries. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!
That is rediculous. That "downplaying" gets MORE people KILLED!

[graciegirl]

Amazed that this thread is still up with all the partisan sniping. We have one group brow beating the other, insisting that only they are right. We have another group arguing that the first group is wrong and won't listen to "the facts". In the middle are a few voices of reason. Conclusion: This thread is going nowhere fast and at best appears to catharsis for some.

My take is very simple, do the right thing to protect yourself and your loved ones. Wear a mask, wash your hands, and stay out of crowds. You do not need to listen to ANY politician or the media, just use common sense assuming that still exists.

This too shall pass as so many pandemics have before. Be a role model for others in the meantime.

Excellent advice. I hope to meet you in person some day and shake your hand.

[n8xwb]

Very easily. How can NY have so many more deaths than N. Dakota? Well, first people in ND are pretty well social distanced to begin with. Lots of room, not many people. 2. How many people from ND travel to, from China and other countries? Probably not many when compared to NY. If you're not exposed you can't get the virus. Now look at it from a world perspective. How many folks living on a farm in Tasmania are likely to be exposed? How about those living in the Amazon Rain forest? How about those in the middle of Africa? Etc etc. Then how many of the residents in the poorest countries can even dream about world travel? There are all kinds of legitimate reasons why our country is being hit so hard and if you care to speculate that it is our leaders' fault you certainly can -- in my opinion it is just stupid speculation.

Oh, and don't forget who allowed their residents to leave an travel worldwide but wouldn't let them move around their own country....THAT WOULD BE CHINA.

[jimjamuser]

We, the 5%ers, also create 27% of worlds greenhouses gasses. Not a good world citizen. Connection?
Agreed and will go even deeper - greenhouse gas caused by mostly the US, which was #1 for many past years, now #2 - gas caused Global Warming - which probably (?not yet proven) cause animal species (like bats) disruption which CAUSED a normally animal virus to JUMP to humans.

You could even say, "what goes around, then comes around".

[jimjamuser]

Did they die FROM the virus or WITH the virus? Big difference!
Only God would be qualified to answer the question of FROM or WITH.

[MDLNB]

Have read that the CDC said that only 6% of deaths are only due to the virus. The rest had underlying health issues that the virus, obviously, didn’t help. That’s 12,000 deaths directly tied to the virus.


I read the same thing. :coolsmiley:

[Bucco]

I read the same thing. :coolsmiley:

I am wondering if any of your read the thread posts or only those that support your position....that has been answered a number of times.

Not many folks at my age die from one single thing, you know

[graciegirl]

We have read them all. I choose to hope that the dying will stop soon. We have had some hopeful information in the last few days;

Phase 3 clinical trial of investigational vaccine for COVID-19 begins | National Institutes of Health (NIH) (https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/phase-3-clinical-trial-investigational-vaccine-covid-19-begins)

Johnson & Johnson's coronavirus vaccine is fourth to begin Phase 3 trials in the United States (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/johnson-and-johnsons-coronavirus-vaccine-is-fourth-to-begin-phase-3-trials-in-the-united-states/ar-BB19lcj3?ocid=sf)

[graciegirl]

Rather than focus on what is heartbreaking, many choose to hope this will end soon. It not only affects this country but the entire world.

Twice in the last week we have had encouraging news about two different vaccines entering the third and final phase of testing.

I posted them above

[MDLNB]

Actually, according to one study the death rate is lower since the pandemic than it was from 2014 through 2018. I got this info from Macrotrends so I can not attest to the veracity of the information.


The death rate this year is NO higher than it is any other year. SO, if this is true then the normal deaths are being contributed to the virus pandemic and what some folks are saying on here is correct.

Considering the fact that in the Villages there has only been about 60 deaths supposedly from the virus, the ratio is very low. No deaths would be better but death is a fact of life(?) If there are something like 150,000 residents in The Villages (not sure of the number) then 60 deaths is pretty darn low.



Sorry, but making this political is pretty weak.

[Bucco]

We have read them all. I choose to hope that the dying will stop soon. We have had some hopeful information in the last few days;

Phase 3 clinical trial of investigational vaccine for COVID-19 begins | National Institutes of Health (NIH) (https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/phase-3-clinical-trial-investigational-vaccine-covid-19-begins)

I sincerely hope so also..........but it is all conflicted now. Some say soon (politicians).....some say middle of next year (scientists, some).

This thread was not about that and the virus is NOT correctly described as "not affecting anybody". It is a serious problem to be addressed, but I must reply to those who say it was something it was not. Americans need to know who to trust.

I pray with you on this vaccine news, and both of us are at an age where I resent those posts that seem to write us all off.

[jimjamuser]

The Civil Discourse Club in The V recently hosted a Zoom meeting w/a former CDC employee giving an update on Covid. It's a great club to join to receive pertinent info on many subjects. Pertinent to Covid were some valid points:
*Due to a lack of clear messaging, 2 countries suffer: US & Spain (Spain recently handed virus control to 'regional' govts to their peril)
*In Korea now, easy tests are similar to a pregnancy test (available at Dollar General)
*Across the world, there are over 200 possible vacs in development.
*60-70% of population needs to be vaccinated or recovered for herd immunity. As of now, only 2% have been exposed.
*Virus not changing as quickly as normal flu virus. In S. Africa where they are currently going through regular 'flu' season, it's not nearly as severe, thanks mostly to masking already taking place for Covid.
*Estimates vacs availability April 2021 earliest.
*Convalescent plasma has NOT been effective.
*Regarding govt. payments to hospitals for Covid diagnoses: They do NOT receive payment if patient admitted w/pre-existing condition.
*Initial messaging from the CDC was diluted dramatically.
*One metric used to determine Covid deaths is average of TOTAL deaths (car accidents, suicide, cancer, heart attack, etc) in same time frame year-to-year. It doesn't change much EXCEPT for this year where, sometime ago, deaths were up over 200,000. This points to Covid deaths actually being underreported.
Thank you! That was the most factual and informative post I have seen today and for MANY days. I learned a lot and I had a pretty good base knowledge of CV from before. Sounds like a GREAT club to belong to!!!!!

[brunogal]

OK, so what would you have done differently? Ignore Fauci and Birx??? Create a panic with gloom and doom talk??? Use psychic ability to know the facts about the virus before they were discovered? Even Monday morning quarterbacking is difficult with this one.

There are many reasons for the US to have a higher percentage of deaths---mobile population, genetically diverse, frontier mentality, distrust of authority---pick one or more.

A national response was required for this one, as demonstrated by every other rich country who responded thusly and with vigor. But for that, leadership is also required.

[jimjamuser]

96 percent would still be alive had they not had COVID-19. I too have four Doctors I’m close with and all have confirmed that hospitals DONT get paid more for a positive COVID death. Really amazing people believe politicians over science. The latest one I heard was mask don’t work. That’s why Doctors and nurses wear them every day. Twenty six years USAF and I thought During times of crisis we’re supposed to join together and generally care about fellow Americans. We pick politics over family, over country, over neighbors. We’re okay with lies and dishonest politicians as long as it serves our purpose. We should demand better from our leaders and if we don’t get it we vote them out. Leaders are supposed to unite us not divide us. Divided we will fall!
Correct. And thanks for your service. You are doing you part.

[Domenick]

Hindsight is 20/20. So tell me what these other countries did that their numbers are so good.

[merrymini]

I think reading these comments are very amusing. I would love to hear from people who say we should have been prepared for the pandemic. How? Which pandemic? Evidence that this came from a chinese lab. Mistaken release? On purpose? Lied about the wet market. Lies about their numbers. Who will ever tell? WHO thinks china is the greatest. Really? We did things wrong? No. We did our best and I am glad we have someone who is positive and hopeful. That is what living is, hope.

[Bucco]

Because of his actions of sending POSITIVE hospital covid sick people into assisted living facilities to assisted nursing homes when He did not make sure they had PPE and their staff was not quitting. As you know He did not use the facilities that the president gave him which would of save her life and 10,000 other seniors. This not political put is a fact which has to be told.

Telling you that they were not forced is not adequate.

My sympathies and I understand your pain and anger.

It has been told many times in many ways, rest assured.

[coffeebean]

Follow the money. If someone dies with heart disease, diabetes, stroke, etc. and they also have the China Virus, hospitals report the cause of death as the China Virus. Why? Because they get reimbursed more. Not so in other countries. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

This is probably the answer to the original poster's question. I have not believed the numbers that are being reported for several months. They could be less, they could be more. Who know? Certainly not me.

[coffeebean]

You are so right Brian, if every death reported as Covid19 that really wasn't Covid19 was deleted from the statistics it would probably be a number close to half of what has been reported. Shameful, misleading and greedy on the part of health care officials.

Just had a thought.......Since this pandemic has gripped this nation.......Have the deaths from all other causes been tracked? Are there zero deaths from auto accidents, zero deaths from heart attacks, zero deaths from renal failure, zero deaths from strokes, etc, etc, etc. You get the idea.

[Malsua]

Just had a thought.......Since this pandemic has gripped this nation.......Have the deaths from all other causes been tracked? Are there zero deaths from auto accidents, zero deaths from heart attacks, zero deaths from renal failure, zero deaths from strokes, etc, etc, etc. You get the idea.

Excess deaths are tracked.

Here is wwwDOTcdcDOTgov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths

There was quite a hump in the spring, a bit of a hump in July and now it's dropping down to nothing.

Every area has to go through their initial phase and then it's done in that area. It gets all the weak hosts and then it's done. This is not to say there aren't people it missed, but it seems to weed out the weakest and run out of hosts.

People talking about a spiking in cases but there are hundreds of thousands of tests taking place each day and the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test is not that great.
Even with 1% false positive, that's 2000 false positives per day. If there are 2000 actual positives, that means that 50% of the "cases" aren't real.

Before you attack the number, you need to go look at the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test yourself. Understand what it means. This is not to say the disease isn't real or that it's not bad. I know two folks who died due to catching it. It's just that if we had the same kind of testing in April as we have today, this recent increase in cases would be bouncing along the baseline rather than a spike.

[Bucco]

Just had a thought.......Since this pandemic has gripped this nation.......Have the deaths from all other causes been tracked? Are there zero deaths from auto accidents, zero deaths from heart attacks, zero deaths from renal failure, zero deaths from strokes, etc, etc, etc. You get the idea.

Just a guess. Cause of death is not quite as simple as posters make it out.

I believe that those responsible have a handle on things as much as possible. As I understand it, there are 3 categories.....Direct deaths for which Covid 19 is the cause....Direct but-uncounted in which Covid19 was responsible but wasn't officially noted and Indirect deaths where the death happened because of other changes caused by the pandemic.

It may take a year before all this gets finalized and the number may go up or down.

Certainly, I nor any poster has a clue. Scientists know how to track this information and will.

[Bucco]

Excess deaths are tracked.

Here is wwwDOTcdcDOTgov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths

There was quite a hump in the spring, a bit of a hump in July and now it's dropping down to nothing.

Every area has to go through their initial phase and then it's done in that area. It gets all the weak hosts and then it's done. This is not to say there aren't people it missed, but it seems to weed out the weakest and run out of hosts.

People talking about a spiking in cases but there are hundreds of thousands of tests taking place each day and the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test is not that great.
Even with 1% false positive, that's 2000 false positives per day. If there are 2000 actual positives, that means that 50% of the "cases" aren't real.

Before you attack the number, you need to go look at the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test yourself. Understand what it means. This is not to say the disease isn't real or that it's not bad. I know two folks who died due to catching it. It's just that if we had the same kind of testing in April as we have today, this recent increase in cases would be bouncing along the baseline rather than a spike.

Thanks for the info

[golfing eagles]

Excess deaths are tracked.

Here is wwwDOTcdcDOTgov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths

There was quite a hump in the spring, a bit of a hump in July and now it's dropping down to nothing.

Every area has to go through their initial phase and then it's done in that area. It gets all the weak hosts and then it's done. This is not to say there aren't people it missed, but it seems to weed out the weakest and run out of hosts.

People talking about a spiking in cases but there are hundreds of thousands of tests taking place each day and the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test is not that great.
Even with 1% false positive, that's 2000 false positives per day. If there are 2000 actual positives, that means that 50% of the "cases" aren't real.

Before you attack the number, you need to go look at the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test yourself. Understand what it means. This is not to say the disease isn't real or that it's not bad. I know two folks who died due to catching it. It's just that if we had the same kind of testing in April as we have today, this recent increase in cases would be bouncing along the baseline rather than a spike.

Agree. And I'm willing to bet that both the false positive and false negative rates are significantly north of 1%, therefore markedly reducing the sensitivity and specificity of these tests

[Velvet]

It’s amazing to me that some people are trying to explain the deaths away. Does it make them feel better about Covid, like an ostrich if I don’t see it, it isn’t there?

Personally, I don’t pay attention to positivity rates and this and that where the reference data depends on the definitions. I watch trends. If the tests were not so sensitive last week, they are also not so sensitive this week etc. The trends catch the direction we are going. When I see the curve going up, no one’s going to convince me that it is in fact going down.

[Dayeight99]

Death rate is a clearer depiction. Not actual numbers. Think.