Florida begins Phase 3 re-opening plan immediately

[coffeebean]

Restaurants, bars and other businesses can open at 100% capacity. Not sure I'm on board for that at this point. Sad to say, hubby and I will not be dining in as much as we have in the past when occupancy was 50%. It is still too hot for us to dine outside. Not happy with this decision to go ahead with Phase 3 of Florida's re-opening plan.

[dewilson58]

Seems early. It will swing back in about three weeks. :ohdear:

[Michread]

:a040: :MOJE_whot: :ho:

[Aloha1]

Fine. No one is making you go anywhere. But for all the out of work people trying to feed their families I say good and I believe they won't do anything stupid to put their family at risk. For those who look at this as a reason to cosy up at the bar with a few dozen others, well, Darwin comes to mind.

[Northwoods]

I still plan to wear a mask whenever I am indoors (at Publix, a store or a restaurant). I probably won't go to a restaurant if the waitstaff doesn't wear masks.
My life isn't going to return to normal. But I really do hope numbers continue to decline and things do return to normal.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Restaurants, bars and other businesses can open at 100% capacity. Not sure I'm on board for that at this point. Sad to say, hubby and I will not be dining in as much as we have in the past when occupancy was 50%. It is still too hot for us to dine outside. Not happy with this decision to go ahead with Phase 3 of Florida's re-opening plan.

Agreed. I still plan on wearing a mask inside buildings that aren't my own, washing my hands and/or using alcohol-based hand sanitizer more often than I did before the pandemic, and maintaining somewhat of a distance with other people.

Maybe not 6 feet, or maybe I won't care too much if I'm standing behind someone, as opposed to facing them.

[Stu from NYC]

If other tables are too close to us we reserve the right to turn and leave.

Too early for this, the last time they opened things up people died.

[Phil Lipschultz]

Common sense is all that is needed to stay safe. Wear a mask, sanitize your hands - it will keep you from contracting other infectious diseases too. Just moved here, can't wait to experience the squares.

[Two Bills]

Florida begins Phase 3 re-opening plan immediately, shortly followed by Phase 2 of the Virus.

[Scott O]

Then don’t go, very simple...

[DanBrew]

It is just so simple if you are unhealthy and at risk, stay home. If not, stop living in fear. The CDC has revealed that 94% of reported deaths were not solely due to the deadly virus. No one wants to be sick, but understand that viruses have existed in our ecosystem since the beginning of time. Use good hygiene and some common sense and try to get beyond this apocolyptic fear driven mentality.

[DrBrutyle109]

Restaurants, bars and other businesses can open at 100% capacity. Not sure I'm on board for that at this point. Sad to say, hubby and I will not be dining in as much as we have in the past when occupancy was 50%. It is still too hot for us to dine outside. Not happy with this decision to go ahead with Phase 3 of Florida's re-opening plan.
Stay home. More room for me

[Coal Miner]

Gov said we cant let business die. What about people?

[Scott O]

Thank you...

[SisalPhil]

Freedom of Choice this still the USA.

[coffeebean]

I still plan to wear a mask whenever I am indoors (at Publix, a store or a restaurant). I probably won't go to a restaurant if the waitstaff doesn't wear masks.
My life isn't going to return to normal. But I really do hope numbers continue to decline and things do return to normal.

Establishments being able to open at 100% does not mean that masks are no longer going to be required. That's what I take of all of this. No?

I surely hope masking will still be required in all indoor establishments. If not, we are all in very big trouble with this virus. Until there is a vaccine widely distributed and is safe and effective, masks should still be required when social distancing can not be maintained, IMHO.

[jbrown132]

Restaurants, bars and other businesses can open at 100% capacity. Not sure I'm on board for that at this point. Sad to say, hubby and I will not be dining in as much as we have in the past when occupancy was 50%. It is still too hot for us to dine outside. Not happy with this decision to go ahead with Phase 3 of Florida's re-opening plan.

That’s one great thing about free choice, you don’t have to go if you don’t want to. I think what they are doing is giving these restaurants and other businesses a chance to survive. At fifty percent capacity there is no way they can make it on a long term basis.

[Leadbone1]

Establishments being able to open at 100% does not mean that masks are no longer going to be required. That's what I take of all of this. No?

I surely hope masking will still be required in all indoor establishments. If not, we are all in very big trouble with this virus. Until there is a vaccine widely distributed and is safe and effective, masks should still be required when social distancing can not be maintained, IMHO.

Absolutely not. The masks that people are wearing around here are absolutely pointless . Read what world renowned epidemiologist have said about masks. The Covid molecule is so small it can even pass through an N 95 mask. These cloth face coverings that people are wearing are absolutely useless other than for psychological purposes. I see people wearing masks into restaurants and then taking them off when they sit down. Virtually the whole restaurant is that way. As it should be. Don’t you all realize how ridiculous this is?

[Klatu]

Workers will celebrate more tips.
Owners will move cautiously and enjoy opportunity.
Customers will decide to go out and enjoy dinner.
Other customers will hunker down and wait for the magical vaccine.
Some will moan and groan that we aren't staying locked down till Jesus comes.
The world will turn, some will get sick, a very few will die and our nation will get back on its feet -- to the joy of many and the dismay of others.

[Scott O]

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
So the whole country should stay locked up? Or high risk population should be careful? Hmmmm...maybe facts should prevail instead of hysteria...

[stan the man]

After we finish culling the herd,, Stop population group...

[vilger]

That’s one great thing about free choice, you don’t have to go if you don’t want to. I think what they are doing is giving these restaurants and other businesses a chance to survive. At fifty percent capacity there is no way they can make it on a long term basis.

Unfortunately in this case, your free choice is putting everyone else at risk. When you go to a restaurant or bar at 100% capacity with masks optional, not only are you putting yourself at risk, but you are putting everyone you may later have contact with at risk.

[vilger]

It is just so simple if you are unhealthy and at risk, stay home. If not, stop living in fear. The CDC has revealed that 94% of reported deaths were not solely due to the deadly virus. No one wants to be sick, but understand that viruses have existed in our ecosystem since the beginning of time. Use good hygiene and some common sense and try to get beyond this apocolyptic fear driven mentality.

I have heart disease but can easily live another 20 years with medication. I get COVID and die; I might not have died from COVID if I had not had heart disease in addition to COVID. Are you telling me that my cause of death was not really COVID?

[coffeebean]

You sound a bit like Yogi Berra. "No one goes there anymore...it's too crowded!" Did you not get the point that this reduced occupancy is taking away something from the actual businesses? How do you expect them to survive? The OP said it's too hot to sit outside, so reduced indoor capacity is still desired. People have every right to go out or not go out, but when can we expect to hear the complaints about this or that restaurant permanently closing due to reduced business? You can't have it both ways. This is their livelihood, already on tenuous terms.

And question: just because a business can open at 100% capacity, do they need to if they don't think it's warranted? Seems like they can still limit capacity on their own. Here's a snippet from an article out of Gainesville:

With the advanced age of the population around here, I'm hoping the restaurants will remain at a lower capacity. I certainly will find out before I go to any restaurant in the future if they are operating at 100% occupancy indoors. Having the plexiglass between booths has allowed the restaurants to fill all booths. Sitting in a booth, protected with plexiglass from the adjacent booth has made me feel safer.

[Scott O]

There is plenty of restaurants with good spacing and outdoor seating. So apparently you don’t shop either? And your imposing on those who need their jobs back to feed and keep a home for their families, over your recreation and dining...yes, stay home or eat outside...

[coffeebean]

Well, I believe masks arent required anymore so if you arent going to places where people dont wear masks, I guess youll be vegetating at home for life

Not true and a bit of hyperbole. Once there is a vaccine, life will be returning back to normal.

[graciegirl]

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
So the whole country should stay locked up? Or high risk population should be careful? Hmmmm...maybe facts should prevail instead of hysteria...

I think that The Villages has mostly wise people living here based on the fact they have lived for many decades, experienced many things, some wonderful, some just awful, have accumulated wisdom and know what they know and respect what they don't know.

For each of us it is an individual choice. We are mostly retired and can choose to wait to be more exposed, or to take our chances. We will not change anyone's mind.

I sincerely hope that every single person reading this will not get sick or die from Covid-19 and that you will find much to occupy your time if you choose to not sally forth.

I am heartened and encouraged and dare to hope that there will be a vaccine soon that will at least partially provide a kick for our bodies to stand up to this new nasty bug.

I truly understand that unless business continues in some form there will be repercussions of another sort that will destroy the economy and that too is supportive of health and security.

I learned from living so long that nothing is really black or white. Be careful my friends. I want you all to be here and us too, come the New Year.

[coffeebean]

Absolutely not. The masks that people are wearing around here are absolutely pointless . Read what world renowned epidemiologist have said about masks. The Covid molecule is so small it can even pass through an N 95 mask. These cloth face coverings that people are wearing are absolutely useless other than for psychological purposes. I see people wearing masks into restaurants and then taking them off when they sit down. Virtually the whole restaurant is that way. As it should be. Don’t you all realize how ridiculous this is?

I know I have answered you before on this, several times............. The virus most certainly can pass through the fabric and disposable masks. HOWEVER, the virus is embedded in droplets which the masks DO BLOCK. There are tens of thousands of virus particles in one average size droplet which is spewed from people's noses mouths, even while breathing. The masks block a good percentage of those droplets which contain the virus particles. Mask do help to slow the spread of this virus. Why are you so resistant to this science?

[coffeebean]

There is plenty of restaurants with good spacing and outdoor seating. So apparently you don’t shop either? And your imposing on those who need their jobs back to feed and keep a home for their families, over your recreation and dining...yes, stay home or eat outside...

I have been shopping and can easily see the traffic in retail and big box stores is what it was before this pandemic hit. People wear the required masks and people feel safe in those environments. People are spending money so the workers can put food on their tables.

As for dining indoors in a restaurant, unfortunately, I will be back to cooking more at home. As I already said, I'm sure there are plenty of people around her who are willing to dine in 100% capacity restaurants.

[Bonnevie]

It is just so simple if you are unhealthy and at risk, stay home. If not, stop living in fear. The CDC has revealed that 94% of reported deaths were not solely due to the deadly virus. No one wants to be sick, but understand that viruses have existed in our ecosystem since the beginning of time. Use good hygiene and some common sense and try to get beyond this apocolyptic fear driven mentality.

the 94% number has been discredited. those people would not have died had they not caught covid. yes, they had pre-existing conditions but those made them more apt to die from it. covid is a novel virus, so there's no immunity that pre-exists. it is also extremely contagious.

count me in the people who will continue to stay home. let others be the canary in the coal mine. the problem is, is there's another outbreak like the last time the governor expanded openings, then it sets back to a time when we will all feel comfortable about participating.

[coffeebean]

Why are YOU so resistant to science?

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
Sounds more like political hysteria from the left, to remain locked down....not facts...

I'm in the 70+ range which most of us in The Villages are too. Those survival rates are not good enough for me to go back to living my life as pre-Covid. You may think those are good odds, but I do not.

Having said that, surviving this virus isn't the entire picture. People are surviving but with complications which may effect them for the rest of their lives. This virus does damage to the body. I prefer to live a healthier life than live with a damaged body caused by Covid-19.

[Bonnevie]

Why are YOU so resistant to science?

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
Sounds more like political hysteria from the left, to remain locked down....not facts...

Except we now know that what the CDC says may not be accurate due to political pressure

[FromNY]

Anyone read and know about the long term results if this virus? Lung issues,heart issues, stamina issues? Dead is easy its done with. Living with the long term effects not pretty and very very costly to the health care system. Think about that when you toss your masks and cuddle up at the bars.

[Swoop]

Most of us have been so brain washed that we forget why businesses were shut down and masks & social distancing became the new protocol. We were told that we needed to “flatten the curve”, that was the reason. The idea wasn’t to prevent people from contracting the virus, but to spread out the infection rate, so hospitals would have ICU capacity. That was the reason we closed - that has been achieved. The governor should absolutely re-open the state.

[San Francisco]

We've been home for several months and only eat out doors or at those restaurants with adequate spacing and that are mostly empty. Then we go home and wash. We carry sanitizers, wipes and paper towels and we always wear masks. The pandemic is real. Seniors are the largest at risk population. Why take chances? It's your health and your life. Cheaper and safer to stay home and use good judgement. PS - A big reason we wear masks is that not only do we care about our health but we care about the health of our friends, family and neighbors as well. We're Americans. We care about and respect each other.

[Mrprez]

You don’t have to go out to eat. You do have a kitchen in your house. Plus, not all restaurants will be at 100% capacity all the time. If you go to a place and it seems crowded, go somewhere else or eat out at a time of day when the crowds are thinner. Try the early bird specials maybe.

And if you don’t like my flippant attitude, tough noogies. I yam what I yam. Not changing for you.

[graciegirl]

Why are YOU so resistant to science?

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
Sounds more like political hysteria from the left, to remain locked down....not facts...


Sir. Madam. 94.6% of people over 70 living is great news unless you are the five per cent that it will kill. Nope. I don't even like those good odds. When you're dead, you're dead and I don't want to be dead.

[Heyitsrick]

No, it is not that simple. This full opening will be infringing on many people who felt safe enough to partake in life's enjoyment such as dining inside a restaurant. That is being taken away from us at this point. All we are trying to do is stay as safe as it is possible during a pandemic of this proportion and still be able to enjoy life. Not going is not the answer.

I don't think you realize that your commentary is really making this all about you and others like you. Where's the commentary on how restaurants are going to survive with less business over a long period of time? The restaurant owners probably have families to support. They most certainly have many bills to pay. The workers are trying to make a living, keep a job and pay their bills. But you're saying this is about YOU still being able to enjoy life. It's a narrow view, in my opinion, because it neglects the cost of occupancy restrictions on the businesses, themselves.

You don't have to go out. The restaurants have to make money to stay in business.

Here's a compromise: Offer to pay DOUBLE what the normal bill is for a meal out IF the restaurant(s) continue to adhere to 50% capacity. Presumably no one is going out to eat every night, so paying double is not going to break you, right? Win-win. You get your security of not being around as many people, and the restaurants can survive on having fewer clientele patronizing.

Now, you may think the above is just a facetious comment, but it absolutely does bring to the fore the cost of severely reduced business, which seems to be lost on many here posting. I don't see where your "enjoying life" is enhanced when restaurant after restaurant needs to permanently close due to lost revenue. Again, if a restaurant owner thinks they can still make things work at lower capacity, more power to them. But that's their choice to make, just as it's your choice whether to patronize them at higher capacity.

[merrymini]

With the advanced age of the population around here, I'm hoping the restaurants will remain at a lower capacity. I certainly will find out before I go to any restaurant in the future if they are operating at 100% occupancy indoors. Having the plexiglass between booths has allowed the restaurants to fill all booths. Sitting in a booth, protected with plexiglass from the adjacent booth has made me feel safer.

I have had enough. Expecting restaurants to install plexi between tables! Stay home.

[BlackhawksFan]

The governor of this state is trying to save the state economy. He is doing a good job. If you want to bury yourself in a hole, go right ahead. Most people wait until after they have died.

If he wanted to save the state economy all he had to do was shut every thing down and mandate masks and all the CDC guidelines in March. We'd be returning now with far fewer cases and deaths on a daily basis.

[Chitown]

Our governor is a lion. Good for him. I will frequent the restaurants and visit the squares daily with absolutely no fear of catching the virus. And by the way, I would be happy to shake your hand if you extend it, and for those who do, I’ll buy you a drink.

[JoelJohnson]

So, if I don't feel safe going out to eat I should stay home. OK, but, if you go out to eat and come in contact with someone that is asymptomatic and you get the virus, and you are one of the "lucky" ones that is also asymptomatic, how many people will you spread it to with no clue that you are doing so? How many will die because you felt safe and wanted to support the economy.
Remember the Ford Pinto? There was a problem with the design, if it was jit in the rear a bolt could go into the gas tank and cause the car to burst into flames. Ford determined that it was cheaper to pay off the families of people who died then to recall the car to fix the problem.

I guess it's cheaper to let people die then to close down (or at least restrict) the economy.

[bumpygreens]

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
Really here’s the facts, be more alarmed by the false stresses your imposing on your body with hysteria, be more concerned with having a heart attack.....or cancer

Those numbers don't even start to look scary unless you're over 70. But then, if you're over 70 the numbers for all causes of death start to look scary.

It's a virus. Once a virus is in a population, you can't stop it. You can only slow it. The economy never should have been closed in the first place. Millions of young, healthy people have lost their jobs and businesses, and there is no evidence that a single life was saved. Historically quarantine has been for the sick. Why are so many wanting to quarantine the healthy?

[bumpygreens]

If he wanted to save the state economy all he had to do was shut every thing down and mandate masks and all the CDC guidelines in March. We'd be returning now with far fewer cases and deaths on a daily basis.

In what world does an economy prosper by shutting down? Have you even bothered to look at the daily statistics for new cases and deaths? We are returning with far fewer cases and deaths on a daily basis. I won't call your post clueless, but I do wish you much better luck in your future attempts at thinking.

[Swoop]

If he wanted to save the state economy all he had to do was shut every thing down and mandate masks and all the CDC guidelines in March. We'd be returning now with far fewer cases and deaths on a daily basis.
Really? Let’s look at the Florida numbers. In the months of March-June when fewer people were wearing masks, there were fewer deaths. When mask wearing became virtually mandatory in July & August, the death rate from the virus tripled. Facts, not feelings...

[jump4]

AARP is reporting "A study of 314 U.S. adults found that those who tested positive for a coronavirus infection during July were approximately twice as likely to have reported dining at a restaurant compared to those with negative test results. “Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to locations that offer on-site eating and drinking, might be important risk factors for SARS-CoV-2 infection,” the report’s authors write."
Source: What You Need to Know About the Coronavirus Outbreak (https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/coronavirus-facts.html)

[guitarguy]

The government has taken away the livelihood of many working people by shutting down the economy. This disease was dangerous to the elderly, the obese, and those with major health issues. Data easily supports this. I am happy to see The young and healthy in this state set free from the lockdowns.

[Bay Kid]

Good for him! Getting tired of being told what we can and can't do by people that do what they want anyway. We need to take away their power hungry moves.

[chrissy2231]

Rec Ctrs & Town Squares open 10/5 50% capacity/

[kanoa1kale2]

Did you not get the point that this is taking away something from people? They want to frequent restaurants, but this will prevent them from doing so. It’s similar to the state deciding it’s OK to smoke in restaurants. The way things were with the reduced occupancy, no one was being excluded. Have you ever been denied entry to a restaurant? With 100% occupancy, many people with complicating issues will be unable to eat out. And all you have is a flip answer to their concerns. Nice...

Have you considered how many restaurants have closed because they can't financially survive with limited capacity? Have you considered how many employees would lose their income while you still get yours each month? How many families with their children will go hungry and without medical care or perhaps lose their home due to not being able to pay the rent or house payment? How about all the vendors who supply these restaurants with products and the vendors employees and families? What about all the lost income to the cities and government due to reduced taxes and fees that support many programs to help deal with the fallout from the pandemic. All this just so you can be at ease eating out. Really, man up and protect your self before you leave the house or just order in through the various organizations that will bring it to your doorstep and let the rest of us deal with this our own way.

[Mrprez]

I don't think you realize that your commentary is really making this all about you and others like you. Where's the commentary on how restaurants are going to survive with less business over a long period of time? The restaurant owners probably have families to support. They most certainly have many bills to pay. The workers are trying to make a living, keep a job and pay their bills. But you're saying this is about YOU still being able to enjoy life. It's a narrow view, in my opinion, because it neglects the cost of occupancy restrictions on the businesses, themselves.

You don't have to go out. The restaurants have to make money to stay in business.

Here's a compromise: Offer to pay DOUBLE what the normal bill is for a meal out IF the restaurant(s) continue to adhere to 50% capacity. Presumably no one is going out to eat every night, so paying double is not going to break you, right? Win-win. You get your security of not being around as many people, and the restaurants can survive on having fewer clientele patronizing.

Now, you may think the above is just a facetious comment, but it absolutely does bring to the fore the cost of severely reduced business, which seems to be lost on many here posting. I don't see where your "enjoying life" is enhanced when restaurant after restaurant needs to permanently close due to lost revenue. Again, if a restaurant owner thinks they can still make things work at lower capacity, more power to them. But that's their choice to make, just as it's your choice whether to patronize them at higher capacity.

^^^^Excellent post.

[Joe C.]

go get 'em !!!

[normanleroux@hotmail.com]

Anyone who’s not comfortable with this has the right to stay home and to keep their masks on! A whole lot of us choose to not live in fear and we understand that Covid is no more dangerous than the flu to 95% of us! This virus has been weaponized by the dishonest media and unfortunately it has influenced so many!
Ask the people of European Countries, if their dishonest media is responsible for the hundreds of thousands deaths or the families of the more than 200,000 families in this country which have lost a love one. Yes all because of our dishonest media.

[zendog3]

Ii am sympathetic to the plight of hospitality industry, but lets be clear: Whatever the numbers are now, opening bars and restaurants to full capacity will cause more people to get sick and more to die!

It has always been in our power to GREATLY reduce our risk of catching Covid 19. Now, however, we have to be even more careful because more of the people we get near will be carriers of the disease.

Even before Covid, we have always had to trade some safety for some economic prosperity. I just wish they had been more honest: We have to open the bars and restaurants but more people will die because of it. If you are over 60, obese, COPD, arthritis, etc. You not have to be more isolated than you have ever had to before.

Unfortunately, the Sun this morning gave the impression - Happy times are here again, go out and have some fun.

[graciegirl]

Governor DeSensless is going to make a lot of people sick and probably kill thousands more. It’s too early for Phase 3 in Florida.

Governor DeSantis is faced with an impossible situation. People's income and very livelihood rests on reopening and yet there is still danger to many. We can't keep doling out money forever to people not working.

It is like Solomon who had two women both claiming an infant. Does he take a sword and divide it?

There are some problems that have no pat answers. He is damned if he doesn't and damned if he does.

[Bonnevie]

I get it...we all have cabin fever. I wish I could go out more and engage with more people. but every time I think about chancing that I picture myself in an ICU struggling to breathe and I know I would be cursing myself for taking an unnecessary risk.

I'm also cognizant that house sales are down and won't pick up until there are activities available....it's what sets the Villages apart. hopefully, the opening up has nothing to do with that.....

[alan5676]

So now that restaurants can be at 100%, would you pay double for your meal if they chose to be 50% capacity. Please answer honestly

[Scbang]

Why are YOU so resistant to science?

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
Sounds more like political hysteria from the left, to remain locked down....not facts...

A death might be easier option than getting sick with COVID. These percentages are meaningless. Even so, calculate how many people will die by multiplying these percentages by US population. 200,000 dead people are just a little portion of that.

[Scbang]

Have you considered how many restaurants have closed because they can't financially survive with limited capacity? Have you considered how many employees would lose their income while you still get yours each month? How many families with their children will go hungry and without medical care or perhaps lose their home due to not being able to pay the rent or house payment? How about all the vendors who supply these restaurants with products and the vendors employees and families? What about all the lost income to the cities and government due to reduced taxes and fees that support many programs to help deal with the fallout from the pandemic. All this just so you can be at ease eating out. Really, man up and protect your self before you leave the house or just order in through the various organizations that will bring it to your doorstep and let the rest of us deal with this our own way.
If we had a complete lock down of the country like Korea and Japan did, we could have opened ALL business by now with a bit of restriction. By not buttoning the first button correctly, we are now in no win situation.

[Curtisbwp]

Happy or not you are still in charge of your own destiny. You csn stay at home and avoid other people or you can resume your active lifestyle..your choice.

[Madelaine Amee]

The Governor can open anything he wants, but it is clearly up to us, the individual, to decide when we are confident to return to a normal way of living. It will be time for us when we have a reliable vaccine, until then take out will do.

[DonnaNi4os]

I agree that everyone needs to do what is right for them. All I keep thinking is Phase 4, hospitals at full capacity. Sure hope I’m wrong.

[Astron]

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
Sounds more like political hysteria from the left, to remain locked down....not facts...
If we can go to war over less than 4,000 killed on 9-11, it seems like something that has already killed over 200,000 Americans should be dealt with with the degree of effort and sacrifice we put into a war. With 4% of the world population, the USA has over 20% of the COVID19 deaths. That is an excess of over 165,000 deaths if we had just done an average public health response compared to the rest of the world.
Pandemics do not care about politics. They do not care if you are inconvenienced. Extreme measures are needed in times of plague, but Americans seem to have forgotten that sacrifice might be required of them in times of Crisis. They proclaim their right of choice even when their choice may kill innocents. We are so polarized that what should have been simple, Save the most lives possible, has become political fodder. The pandemic will run its course, given time. But how many could be saved from death and long term health issues if Americans were not so spoiled that they would not sacrifice to save them?

[jimjamuser]

If other tables are too close to us we reserve the right to turn and leave.

Too early for this, the last time they opened things up people died.
Just going inside for a short time exposes you and yours to INCREASED risks. Indoors is 15 times as bad as outdoors. Be careful! Your taste buds may reward you, but the rest of your body could be VERY unhappy. Look to Spain as an example of the wisdom of returning to normal. Do that BEFORE you reactively blame me for advocating for CAUTION.

[jimjamuser]

Or get people back to work so they can put food on their table and pay their rent. Food banks are running thin.

Doesn’t mean you have to go out, Because being retired means you get money every month.

By opening it will be one more child will have food to eat
CV has made drastic economic changes. The sooner the OLD restaurant system is done away with the better. Open air portable meal carts and trucks MAY(?) be the answer. Super ventilated indoor areas may be the future? New methods to satisfy food and entertainment needs will be invented, designed, and implemented. And the CHILDREN of these NEW workers may or may not have improved quality of life - it depends on innovators thinking "outside the box" - and politicians using political SCIENCE and stimulating innovation and new ideas. The PAST has past, but we still cling to it.

[Roron123]

Every body should do their own thing as they wish! But this is good!

[Stu from NYC]

Just going inside for a short time exposes you and yours to INCREASED risks. Indoors is 15 times as bad as outdoors. Be careful! Your taste buds may reward you, but the rest of your body could be VERY unhappy. Look to Spain as an example of the wisdom of returning to normal. Do that BEFORE you reactively blame me for advocating for CAUTION.

Kind of why we almost always (one exception so far) dine outdoors at restaurants.

The exception was nobody was within 20 ft.

[jimjamuser]

It is just so simple if you are unhealthy and at risk, stay home. If not, stop living in fear. The CDC has revealed that 94% of reported deaths were not solely due to the deadly virus. No one wants to be sick, but understand that viruses have existed in our ecosystem since the beginning of time. Use good hygiene and some common sense and try to get beyond this apocolyptic fear driven mentality.
Wait and see what the true risks really are before passing judgement and going straight to "downplaying".

[graciegirl]

Sometimes there is NO solution to problems. I am amazed at the people who do not believe that.

They get angry and blame. Bottom line, this microbe is a new one and it kills people. If we had totally locked down it wouldn't have killed so many all so soon, but then our ability to take care of ourselves, especially those with no savings would still be stymied, and that put the population at another very serious risk.

This is a complex problem with no easy solution.

I think there will be a vaccine in a few months but it will not save everyone and will not keep everyone from getting Covid-19. Hopefully at least it will lessen it's severity.

[jimjamuser]

Freedom of Choice this still the USA.
That is NOT a guaranteed constant.

[jimjamuser]

Not true and a bit of hyperbole. Once there is a vaccine, life will be returning back to normal.
I am truely sad to say this. But, a vaccine will NOT be the silver bullet that you imagine it will be. There will be ANTI-vaccers who do not take it in the US in large numbers. There are MANY problems with distribution ( 2 doses may be needed). Storage for distribution requires neg 112 deg F, which is only easy in special laboratories.

Masks may be needed for 4 or more years......really sorry.

[jimjamuser]

I don't think you realize that your commentary is really making this all about you and others like you. Where's the commentary on how restaurants are going to survive with less business over a long period of time? The restaurant owners probably have families to support. They most certainly have many bills to pay. The workers are trying to make a living, keep a job and pay their bills. But you're saying this is about YOU still being able to enjoy life. It's a narrow view, in my opinion, because it neglects the cost of occupancy restrictions on the businesses, themselves.

You don't have to go out. The restaurants have to make money to stay in business.

Here's a compromise: Offer to pay DOUBLE what the normal bill is for a meal out IF the restaurant(s) continue to adhere to 50% capacity. Presumably no one is going out to eat every night, so paying double is not going to break you, right? Win-win. You get your security of not being around as many people, and the restaurants can survive on having fewer clientele patronizing.

Now, you may think the above is just a facetious comment, but it absolutely does bring to the fore the cost of severely reduced business, which seems to be lost on many here posting. I don't see where your "enjoying life" is enhanced when restaurant after restaurant needs to permanently close due to lost revenue. Again, if a restaurant owner thinks they can still make things work at lower capacity, more power to them. But that's their choice to make, just as it's your choice whether to patronize them at higher capacity.
Society must change to the new post CV world. New food distribution systems will be created.

[jimjamuser]

In what world does an economy prosper by shutting down? Have you even bothered to look at the daily statistics for new cases and deaths? We are returning with far fewer cases and deaths on a daily basis. I won't call your post clueless, but I do wish you much better luck in your future attempts at thinking.
WELL, it worked for the world outside the US - Austalia, New Zealand, S. Korea, Japan, and Germany to just name a few. Check me out on this, if you don't believe me!

[jimjamuser]

Really? Let’s look at the Florida numbers. In the months of March-June when fewer people were wearing masks, there were fewer deaths. When mask wearing became virtually mandatory in July & August, the death rate from the virus tripled. Facts, not feelings...
That is a cute distortion of facts, pretty shallow. Remember the movie, "Shallow Hal"?

[Snorkl46]

In the last seven days, there have been 735 reported Covid deaths. To me that is not insignificant. Also, this week Florida will pass New Jersey, an initial epi-center, in total Covid deaths. Yesterday, Jersey had 6 reported deaths while Florida had 107.

[jimjamuser]

If we had a complete lock down of the country like Korea and Japan did, we could have opened ALL business by now with a bit of restriction. By not buttoning the first button correctly, we are now in no win situation.
Finally, an intelligent and informative post. It is ethnocentric to NOT look at how other countries have SUCCESSFULLY handled the Virus. And now ask why the US failed? It is SSSOOOO easy!

[Swoop]

Maybe we should have followed Sweden’s lead and left everything running. Rather than choosing to spread the virus out like we did, they left their economy open. They didn’t suffer the negative economic impact we did and they quickly achieved herd immunity. Now their nationwide deaths from Covid are down to one or two per day...

[davem4616]

Life goes on....we can't allow every small business to fail, but we also can't place those at risk in harms way...trying to find a happy medium is the challenge

We take responsibility for ourselves and our own health & safety...we wear masks, we wash our hands and we maintain social distancing to the best of our ability

We absolutely have no intention of 'hiding in the house', but will continue to play it as safe as we feel appropriate

We'll go to "The Squares" periodically...but most likely remain on the sidewalks vs. bothering to get a ticket and wait in line to get in

We'll vote in person and grocery shop in person

As much as we like going to The Sharon and The Savannah Center if there's no vaccine when they reopen, we'll wait...same with the movie houses

We'll go to a few select restaurants, like we have been, but mostly we'll cook at home...the food is better and less costly anyway

We'll avoid flying...but we'll travel via auto and stay in high end hotels

Shortly we're off for a week at the beach...nice little beachfront cottage...cooking in all week

Next up is a trip up to South Carolina's Low Country...exact timing TBD

Wife had a girlfriend neighbor over for 'coffee and' the other morning....they're playing it safe too....low risk

We had backdoor neighbors over for dinner a week or two ago...they're playing it safe too...low risk

We had a friend and his wife over for wine & conversation...they're playing it safe too...low risk

just not interested in herding into a crowded bar or restaurant with folks that we don't know yet

[jimjamuser]

Maybe we should have followed Sweden’s lead and left everything running. Rather than choosing to spread the virus out like we did, they left their economy open. They didn’t suffer the negative economic impact we did and they quickly achieved herd immunity. Now their nationwide deaths from Covid are down to one or two per day...
Herd immunity or herd mentality. It is a non-scientific rationalization for the US to return to "normal" without being close to normal in reality. Look to Germany and Japan for correct results, not Sweden.

[Joe V.]

Herd immunity or herd mentality. It is a non-scientific rationalization for the US to return to "normal" without being close to normal in reality. Look to Germany and Japan for correct results, not Sweden.

A quick search reveals many scientists disagree with your remark of herd immunity being a non-scientific rationalization.

For example:

“Herd Immunity”: A Rough Guide
Paul Fine, Ken Eames, David L. Heymann

Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 52, Issue 7, 1 April 2011, Pages 911–916

[Swoop]

A quick search reveals many scientists disagree with your remark of herd immunity being a non-scientific rationalization.

For example:

“Herd Immunity”: A Rough Guide
Paul Fine, Ken Eames, David L. Heymann

Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 52, Issue 7, 1 April 2011, Pages 911–916
Then how do you explain the fact that Sweden is down to 1 or 2 Covid deaths per day now?

[Joe V.]

Then how do you explain the fact that Sweden is down to 1 or 2 Covid deaths per day now?



Read the paper I mentioned in my first quote. I never said anything other than many scientists do think herd immunity is real and science based.

[graciegirl]

I am just being truthful. I know there are a lot of NY haters out there, but they reopened intelligently, listened to the scientists, and have had a COVID positivity rate of 1% or less for months now.

I believe that we should listen to the scientists for guidance on reopening, and they say the Florida positivity rate is still too high. Listen to the scientists for medical advice, not a politician who is currently touring on a COVID superspreader road show, and believes that he is a scientific genius because he is able to distinguish a drawing of an elephant from that of a giraffe on a dementia test.

covid deaths in new york state - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=covid+deaths+in+new+york+state&cvid=a39761d534804a0586261800d2c166d3&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

Covid deaths in Florida - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Covid+deaths+in+Florida&cvid=55407f4dd64141e5ac793da6288b3720&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

Florida is more populous than New York State.

[yankygrl]

Restaurants, bars and other businesses can open at 100% capacity. Not sure I'm on board for that at this point. Sad to say, hubby and I will not be dining in as much as we have in the past when occupancy was 50%. It is still too hot for us to dine outside. Not happy with this decision to go ahead with Phase 3 of Florida's re-opening plan.
That’s your choice, no one is mandating you go to restaurants. I for one am happy to have the chance to get out a bit more.

[JoMar]

Absolutely not. The masks that people are wearing around here are absolutely pointless . Read what world renowned epidemiologist have said about masks. The Covid molecule is so small it can even pass through an N 95 mask. These cloth face coverings that people are wearing are absolutely useless other than for psychological purposes. I see people wearing masks into restaurants and then taking them off when they sit down. Virtually the whole restaurant is that way. As it should be. Don’t you all realize how ridiculous this is?

I do think your logic is ridiculous but it works for you right?

[JoMar]

It's all about the money.....tis the season so making things available for the snowbirds and tourists is the only think that matters. Disney, Universal need more people inside. Hopefully there will be surprises over the next couple months and the cases and deaths won't increase. I never lead in these things so will sit back and watch the non-believers, uninformed or those that make up the statistics take the lead.

[vilger]

covid deaths in new york state - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=covid+deaths+in+new+york+state&cvid=a39761d534804a0586261800d2c166d3&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

Covid deaths in Florida - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Covid+deaths+in+Florida&cvid=55407f4dd64141e5ac793da6288b3720&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

Florida is more populous than New York State.

Try looking at the the recent past; not the accumulated death toll since March. NY has averaged only a handful of deaths per day since the end of June. Florida has been averaging over 100+ deaths per day.

[Joe V.]

Try looking at the the recent past; not the accumulated death toll since March. NY has averaged only a handful of deaths per day since the end of June. Florida has been averaging over 100+ deaths per day.


A good book to read: Lying with Statistics

[Jazzman]

Finally, an intelligent and informative post. It is ethnocentric to NOT look at how other countries have SUCCESSFULLY handled the Virus. And now ask why the US failed? It is SSSOOOO easy!

They used contact tracing via an individual’s cell phone. You would be okay with a government entity tracking your whereabouts 24x7? Specific to South Korea, They also confiscated medical supplies from commercial companies and as yet there has not been a final decision on the repayment methods. You’re okay with that too?

[Jazzman]

Sometimes there is NO solution to problems. I am amazed at the people who do not believe that.

They get angry and blame. Bottom line, this microbe is a new one and it kills people. If we had totally locked down it wouldn't have killed so many all so soon, but then our ability to take care of ourselves, especially those with no savings would still be stymied, and that put the population at another very serious risk.

This is a complex problem with no easy solution.

I think there will be a vaccine in a few months but it will not save everyone and will not keep everyone from getting Covid-19. Hopefully at least it will lessen it's severity.

The vaccine from at least one company who is in phase three trials does prevent infection from Covid. Another in phase three not only prevents but has been shown to eliminate the virus. You can look it up. And just how many people do you believe don’t get an annual flu shot. You can go to the CDC website and find out. But here’s a stat. Only 60% of individuals 65 and older in 2019 got a flu shot. So that leaves 40% at risk. The same will hold true with the Covid vaccine and in the initial year of availability the percentage of individuals 65 and older who get the Covid vaccine will be in my opinion less than 60%.

[rstebbins]

just because they are open 100 percent doesn’t mean they will be full. Have been eating out a lot and nothing is full. Feel sorry for the people trying to make a living or a profit from their business. it’s tough

[Aloha1]

I have heart disease but can easily live another 20 years with medication. I get COVID and die; I might not have died from COVID if I had not had heart disease in addition to COVID. Are you telling me that my cause of death was not really COVID?

Then STAY HOME. And leave the rest of us to live life.

[Aloha1]

I agree that everyone needs to do what is right for them. All I keep thinking is Phase 4, hospitals at full capacity. Sure hope I’m wrong.

It never happened, it will not happen.

[coffeebean]

I don't think you realize that your commentary is really making this all about you and others like you. Where's the commentary on how restaurants are going to survive with less business over a long period of time? The restaurant owners probably have families to support. They most certainly have many bills to pay. The workers are trying to make a living, keep a job and pay their bills. But you're saying this is about YOU still being able to enjoy life. It's a narrow view, in my opinion, because it neglects the cost of occupancy restrictions on the businesses, themselves.

You don't have to go out. The restaurants have to make money to stay in business.

Here's a compromise: Offer to pay DOUBLE what the normal bill is for a meal out IF the restaurant(s) continue to adhere to 50% capacity. Presumably no one is going out to eat every night, so paying double is not going to break you, right? Win-win. You get your security of not being around as many people, and the restaurants can survive on having fewer clientele patronizing.

Now, you may think the above is just a facetious comment, but it absolutely does bring to the fore the cost of severely reduced business, which seems to be lost on many here posting. I don't see where your "enjoying life" is enhanced when restaurant after restaurant needs to permanently close due to lost revenue. Again, if a restaurant owner thinks they can still make things work at lower capacity, more power to them. But that's their choice to make, just as it's your choice whether to patronize them at higher capacity.

I see your point and others who have made the same point that restaurants need more than 50% occupancy to remain viable. I get it. Having said that, I will not pay double if a restaurant remains at 50% capacity. Hubby and I have been supporting our local restaurants from the first day they were able to open their indoor dining rooms. There are others who have yet to leave their homes let alone go to a restaurant so I can honestly say we are not in that segment of the population.

After claiming I will not dine out with the 100% occupancy for indoor dining rooms, hubby and I did go to breakfast this morning just to test the waters and found that First Watch on 466A still had their tables spaced for social distancing. Tables and chairs are still lining the sides of the dining room, not in use. I was happy to see that so we stayed. I'm wondering how long it will be before our local restaurants will jump in with 100% occupancy. Time will tell.

[Aloha1]

I am truely sad to say this. But, a vaccine will NOT be the silver bullet that you imagine it will be. There will be ANTI-vaccers who do not take it in the US in large numbers. There are MANY problems with distribution ( 2 doses may be needed). Storage for distribution requires neg 112 deg F, which is only easy in special laboratories.

Masks may be needed for 4 or more years......really sorry.

Those that won't get the vaccine are Darwin's Children. Too bad for them but does not affect the rest of us. Get the vaccine and live life.

[Aloha1]

WELL, it worked for the world outside the US - Austalia, New Zealand, S. Korea, Japan, and Germany to just name a few. Check me out on this, if you don't believe me!

Perhaps YOU should do some checking.Every one of the countries you quote now has increasing spikes. Australia and New Zealand are back in lock down/ Japan and the rest have locked down parts of their countries. All they did was delay the virus, not stop it. Sweden got it right.

[coffeebean]

I have had enough. Expecting restaurants to install plexi between tables! Stay home.

I never said I expect restaurants to install plexiglass between TABLES. What I said was I feel safe with the plexiglass between the booths allowing restaurants to seat patrons in all of their booths. That is a win win for the restaurant and the patrons.

In fact, nicer restaurants have actually added building material such as wood and wood trim in between the booths. Long Horn Steak House is one of these restaurants. First Watch on 466A also has installed wood as barriers between booths. I'm hoping these additions will remain forever. These help to keep the noise level down.

[coffeebean]

If he wanted to save the state economy all he had to do was shut every thing down and mandate masks and all the CDC guidelines in March. We'd be returning now with far fewer cases and deaths on a daily basis.
I have been a proponent of this tactic from the beginning. We would be so close to being "normal" at this point and time in this pandemic. Problem is there was no way we would have achieved near the compliance that was needed to kill this virus in its tracks.

[jimjamuser]

A quick search reveals many scientists disagree with your remark of herd immunity being a non-scientific rationalization.

For example:

“Herd Immunity”: A Rough Guide
Paul Fine, Ken Eames, David L. Heymann

Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 52, Issue 7, 1 April 2011, Pages 911–916
Germany, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and other countries have achieved a return to normal living - without resorting to the pain, death, and lifelong complications that could have happened if they tried the "radical" concept of herd immunity. They declined to try it and have prospered because of it. Their methods have worked. Nothing succeeds like success.

[coffeebean]

Really? Let’s look at the Florida numbers. In the months of March-June when fewer people were wearing masks, there were fewer deaths. When mask wearing became virtually mandatory in July & August, the death rate from the virus tripled. Facts, not feelings...

You can thank the anti-maskers for the increase in numbers. Not everyone wears a mask so there is that.

[Joe V.]

Germany, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and other countries have achieved a return to normal living - without resorting to the pain, death, and lifelong complications that could have happened if they tried the "radical" concept of herd immunity. They declined to try it and have prospered because of it. Their methods have worked. Nothing succeeds like success.

Again, you failed to understand your misguided statement that herd immunity is a non-scientific rationalization. It is not. It is real. No matter what you say. It is not "radical". I bet you did not even check out my source which I conveniently supplied in my original post. They only thing radical is comments such as yours. Science denier.

[vilger]

A good book to read: Lying with Statistics

Current public policy should be based on current data, not stale data.

[coffeebean]

So now that restaurants can be at 100%, would you pay double for your meal if they chose to be 50% capacity. Please answer honestly

Honestly, no.

[jimjamuser]

They used contact tracing via an individual’s cell phone. You would be okay with a government entity tracking your whereabouts 24x7? Specific to South Korea, They also confiscated medical supplies from commercial companies and as yet there has not been a final decision on the repayment methods. You’re okay with that too?
Yes, I would rather lose a few small freedoms to have greater positive gains. Post CV is a WHOLE new world. You probably click your seatbelt on now. I doubt you try to go around every speedbump? Any cell phone in the US can be tracked anyway. If that bothered me, I could just leave it at home, maybe buy disposable phones? I would rather be alive and enjoying a normal life than worrying about a government conspiracy to track me. I am not worth their tracking me!

I would rather be alive in Australia, Japan or New Zealand than be ashes in an urn in TV Land.

[jimjamuser]

Leave your erroneous comments and political diatribe out of this discussion. If you have some real scientific fact to post do so. What you suggest was tried in Europe. Didn't work.
Worked in Germany.

[jimjamuser]

Perhaps YOU should do some checking.Every one of the countries you quote now has increasing spikes. Australia and New Zealand are back in lock down/ Japan and the rest have locked down parts of their countries. All they did was delay the virus, not stop it. Sweden got it right.
Delaying the virus is the same as saying "saving lives". Are you against saving lives? Maybe they opened too early and they will learn from that. Their total deaths will be lower than the US's when and if this Plague is ever over. The US is learning NOTHING from other countries.

[vilger]

Really? Let’s look at the Florida numbers. In the months of March-June when fewer people were wearing masks, there were fewer deaths. When mask wearing became virtually mandatory in July & August, the death rate from the virus tripled. Facts, not feelings...

The increase in deaths in July and August would have nothing to do with the governor allowing bars, tattoo shops, massage parlors, etc. to reopen in the beginning of June?

[graciegirl]

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
Really here’s the facts, be more alarmed by the false stresses your imposing on your body with hysteria, be more concerned with having a heart attack.....or cancer

I don't see anyone hysterical. I see them calm and careful. I am tired of people taunting others with labels like "paranoid" and "hysterical" and "afraid" and dismissing their being careful and knowing the risks with being a "sissy".

[Stu from NYC]

Isnt hindsight great thing to have?

[John41]

Why are YOU so resistant to science?

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
Sounds more like political hysteria from the left, to remain locked down....not facts...

The CDC mortality rate we saw was 4% for 70-79 and 24% for 80 and above. I agree you can’t shut the whole country down for a small age group like us and it was wise to reopen Florida. Those of us a high risk need to be extra careful and the extended shopping were helpful. We will also be wearing masks until there is an effective vaccine.

[Topspinmo]

Seems early. It will swing back in about three weeks. :ohdear:

Yes, Nostradamus!

[Joe V.]

Current public policy should be based on current data, not stale data.



Did you read the paper I pointed too. Not a chance? Stay sheltered for everyone's sake.

[Stu from NYC]

Another Nostradamus

Wow that Nostradamus guy sure gets around

[coffeebean]

Delaying the virus is the same as saying "saving lives". Are you against saving lives? Maybe they opened too early and they will learn from that. Their total deaths will be lower than the US's when and if this Plague is ever over. The US is learning NOTHING from other countries.

Delaying the virus is what it is all about. Delaying the virus is buying us time to achieve herd immunity with a vaccine. That is the safe way to do it.

Vaccine....sign me up. THEN I will live life back to normal.

[vinnytalk]

At least it gives everyone a choice,
I would think any good business Will ease into it.

[NancyLee]

COVID-19 SURVIVAL RATES (per CDC):
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%
So the whole country should stay locked up? Or high risk population should be careful? Hmmmm...maybe facts should prevail instead of hysteria...
Survival rate means living through the virus. It also means living through the virus, but having severe pulmonary problems for the rest of your life.

[patfla06]

If you’re high risk, as I am, nothing has changed to allow me to go back to normal.

So personally I have to continue to stay home.

But we each have to decide what is worth the risk.
If you’re not high risk you may have more options.

Praying for an effective vaccine soon. Stay safe.

[twinklesweep]

I don't see anyone hysterical. I see them calm and careful. I am tired of people taunting others with labels like "paranoid" and "hysterical" and "afraid" and dismissing their being careful and knowing the risks with being a "sissy".

I completely agree. People are free to choose their own comfort level—and free to ignore the small-minded comments about their carefulness. We see fairly consistently what happens in areas in the US and around the world when they are opened up for reasons that seem to defy public health policy—and one doesn’t have to be Nostradamus to be aware of this.

I could never wrap my head around the thinking that the percentages are so small that the disease is inconsequential overall. Remember that these now 200,000+ deaths—whether directly from COVID-19 or from a complicating issue that they had learned to live with, perhaps for many years—these are individual lives and families struggling through a terrible tragedy....

[mrf6969]

It is just so simple if you are unhealthy and at risk, stay home. If not, stop living in fear. The CDC has revealed that 94% of reported deaths were not solely due to the deadly virus. No one wants to be sick, but understand that viruses have existed in our ecosystem since the beginning of time. Use good hygiene and some common sense and try to get beyond this apocolyptic fear driven mentality.
Finally, there is some common sense. Thanks Dan !

[Girlcopper]

Absolutely not. The masks that people are wearing around here are absolutely pointless . Read what world renowned epidemiologist have said about masks. The Covid molecule is so small it can even pass through an N 95 mask. These cloth face coverings that people are wearing are absolutely useless other than for psychological purposes. I see people wearing masks into restaurants and then taking them off when they sit down. Virtually the whole restaurant is that way. As it should be. Don’t you all realize how ridiculous this is?
Shame on those people for removing their mask to eat!! Mask wearing is supposed to be in conjunction with social distancing so those tiny particles that squeeze out of the alleged useless masks are not spread to others.

[garynarramore]

I love being free to make informed decisions.

[stadry]

freedoms lost or surrendered will never be regained,,, if you don't like dining in restaurants, stay home,,, if you don't like guns, don't buy 1,,, we could all behave as joe biden & stay in our basement all day long - that's living ????????????

[Vonjor@gmail.com]

Our governor is a lion. Good for him. I will frequent the restaurants and visit the squares daily with absolutely no fear of catching the virus. And by the way, I would be happy to shake your hand if you extend it, and for those who do, I’ll buy you a drink.

Actually, the Governor is “somebody’s” trained pet monkey, hoping to get a job with an organ grinder if “somebody” gets re-elected.😳

[deebrock]

I have the same concerns as this person. A mask helps all of us and we also have the option of going out. Some of the answers given were not necessary.

[Plants]

Good one!

[PJackpot]

Windguy: Did you ever consider the fact that these restaurants are going broke? You don't want to go....don't. They'll have plenty of business once the birds start coming back, and no I am not concerned about their concerns. And as an added incentive to stay away, I will be one of the faceless cozying up to the bar....a full bar.

[nick demis]

I thought political issues were banned???????

[Bear1]

My wife and I feel the same, like living a little more safe for noe

[Tblue]

Coffeebean we agree, things will start to return to somewhat normal after the vaccine is available. The mask issue is a different story. It is well know masks do not protect the person wearing the mask. Just Google the size of the virus and the size of weave in a mask. Masks do trap some of the virus in moisture droplets? I have not read how much is trapped, what percent? If not trapped in moisture droplets the virus just goes thru the mask. Make up any number of the percent of virus attached to moisture, maybe 10% maybe 50% I don’t think we know what that percentage is? So what ever that number is, the moisture with the virus attached, escaped around the mask? I wore a mask for 37 years in the operations room and on occasion I had to tape the fit around my nose so my breathing would not fog my glasses. My point being water vapor escapes around the bridge of the nose, who know what escapes around the sides and bottom of the mask?Giving you the benefit of a doubt and any amount of the virus is captured in the mask, who does not fiddle with the mask, take it off and lay it in the console of your car or just place it on the kitchen counter ready to use the next time you go out, or just put it in pocket or purse. I would go as far as to say wearing a mask, fiddling with the mask or handing of a contaminated mask as I just describe may even aid in spreading of the virus, I don’t know but its a thought. Wear a mask if it makes you feel better, go out and eat or don’t go out and eat, or go out and eat wearing a mask, glove, face shield and a surgical gown. But wearing a mask to protect yourself is useless, but the average person wearing a mask to protect others may not be all it’s cracked up to be. I am not afraid of the virus, I surely don’t want it and the chances of getting it is extremely low and should I get the virus there are treatments available. I like you want to see a vaccine hoping things will return to normal.

[Manhoopty]

And me.....they’ve been home for months anyways, right?

[Lottoguy]

Over 205,000 dead now WITH MASKS AND SOCIAL DISTANCING! This is not like the flu.

[jimjamuser]

I believe that your FL governor is doing this for one main reason. Sorry I know we aren't suppose to be political on here but ... I believe FL is going to be a key state in determining the next president. FL opens up to 100%, kids back in school, life back to "normal" is exactly what Trump is pushing and the FL governor doing what he can to promote. I hope it goes well, we need to get back to normal. If your FL experiment goes well, Trump re-elected. If it doesn't, more people will suffer. Let the experiment begin.
Back to physical school clases might have worked in Jan 2021, IF much expensive preparations were finished like precautions, building changes, rooms made larger, and more outdoor classrooms. It is doomed to failure with today's lack of preparations. The motivation for it does NOT seem to be for the greater good of the society, children or their parents.

The parents should say, "No Way" to regular school openings, which will just be another Super Spreader event.

Anyway, the next election will depend on how the WHOLE country reacts, not just FLORIDA. Florida is an important state, but not completely determinative of a national election.

[coffeebean]

Over 205,000 dead now WITH MASKS AND SOCIAL DISTANCING! This is not like the flu.

We do not have the level of compliance to slow the spread of this virus. Too many people are anti-maskers. There are too many gatherings of too many people not wearing masks. We will never get a handle on this virus with the non compliance we have here in America. Sorry to say.

[brfree1411@aol.com]

I agree, unless separated we will not go to an indoor restaurant. I feel nothing has changed as far as the virus goes. We are 60+ a bit overweight & my husband is diabetic, we don't take chances.
I know that a lot will go out and I think that is great I just need to be more cautious.

[Stu from NYC]

We do not have the level of compliance to slow the spread of this virus. Too many people are anti-maskers. There are too many gatherings of too many people not wearing masks. We will never get a handle on this virus with the non compliance we have here in America. Sorry to say.

One can only hope the vaccine and herd immunity will get it done.

[jimjamuser]

I completely agree. People are free to choose their own comfort level—and free to ignore the small-minded comments about their carefulness. We see fairly consistently what happens in areas in the US and around the world when they are opened up for reasons that seem to defy public health policy—and one doesn’t have to be Nostradamus to be aware of this.

I could never wrap my head around the thinking that the percentages are so small that the disease is inconsequential overall. Remember that these now 200,000+ deaths—whether directly from COVID-19 or from a complicating issue that they had learned to live with, perhaps for many years—these are individual lives and families struggling through a terrible tragedy....
An excellent and thoughtful post. Kudos! But also, I could add that besides the statistic of the plus 200,000 deaths, there are also large numbers of patients that LIVED, but went through very tortured days in the hospital. Some were then released, which was very good. But, some have not fully recovered for as long as 6 months. Some others have felt well for awhile only to have some other new physical problem arise. The bottom line is perhaps 300,000 people have already either DIED or had serious torture due to CV. AND what of all the children that are asymptomatic? Will they suddenly encounter problems when they get to middle age? Much is NOT known about CV.

My humble opinion is that the US has played Russian roulette with this disease by not mandating masks and not taking hundreds of steps that could have suppressed the Virus. And it is too LATE!

[jimjamuser]

Windguy: Did you ever consider the fact that these restaurants are going broke? You don't want to go....don't. They'll have plenty of business once the birds start coming back, and no I am not concerned about their concerns. And as an added incentive to stay away, I will be one of the faceless cozying up to the bar....a full bar.
Restaurants will be made to change systemically because of CV as will ALL aspects of society. Attitudes will be forced to change. Laws may force behavior to avoid spreading the disease to the innocent others. A post CV world of bars and restaurants may take years to recover to what we have now. Or it could stay different. There may be more CVs in the human near future.

[ismatta]

100% open with no masks means we will no longer be dining out. Not until COVID-19 is under much better control. If you think a return to 100% open is ok, you are ignorant and dangerous. If you want to endanger all of us, please go ahead and get your life over with quickly so things really can get back to normal.

[MDLNB]

I DON"T WANT to stay home. I want to dine in a restaurant INDOORS. I have felt safe enough in restaurants while being socially distanced from others. Just hubby and myself at the table as we have not invited anyone else into our "social circle". We are not going to do that until we are vaccinated from this virus.

I will not feel safe with others sitting so close to us. Others who I have no idea where they have been and who they have been in contact with; others who may be anti maskers; others who may be asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carriers of this virus; others who think this pandemic is a hoax.

Our local restaurants have been getting support from hubby and myself as soon as they opened for indoor dining. Not so much now but I'm sure there are plenty of other folks who are happy to join the petri dish that will now be indoor dining.

Bad move, DeSantis!


Many folks felt the same way when AIDS was first discovered in the U.S. Some would not let their children go to school if another child was infected.

Some folks put on their big boy pants early in life and some wait until later in life, but life goes on.

I was told when I was very young that I was going to die because I rode a motorcycle. I still do, and I enjoy it. I do not fault others if they do not know what they are missing. I pity them, that they can criticize using only their opinion.
Like I have said before, if you don't like something then use your Constitutional right to free choice and walk away.

[MDLNB]

Worked in Germany.


I remember the good old days when watching black and white TV. I remember Beaver saying "but Johnny down the street is allowed to do it...." What's Germany have to do with us? Nothing is the correct answer.

[JoMar]

Was our society always this selfish? I remember a time (or maybe I made it up) when we cared for our neighbors, friends and family. There now seems to be an attitude the hell with others, open everything up because I think it's the right thing to do for me....even claiming constitutional rights are violated.

[coffeebean]

One can only hope the vaccine and herd immunity will get it done.

Absolutely!

[Tblue]

We do not have the level of compliance to slow the spread of this virus. Too many people are anti-maskers. There are too many gatherings of too many people not wearing masks. We will never get a handle on this virus with the non compliance we have here in America. Sorry to say.

I am not an anti masker. I am more factual. Google the size of the virus and the weave of mask, the science is mask do no protect the person wearing the mask. As far a stopping the wearer of the mask from spreading it in vapor droplets, no one knows how much of the virus is attached to vapor droplets and just how much is stopped by a mask. Some of your vapor from breathing goes out around the nose, sides and bottom of the mask. Yes the mask does stop some of the virus in vapor, how much we don't know. In reality everyone fiddles with there mask, touches their masks and reuse their mask, so just maybe any good being done by stopping some of virus spread into your mask you most likely handled the mask over and over and putting you hands in contact with who knows what. Again I am not an anti masker.

[coffeebean]

100% open with no masks means we will no longer be dining out. Not until COVID-19 is under much better control. If you think a return to 100% open is ok, you are ignorant and dangerous. If you want to endanger all of us, please go ahead and get your life over with quickly so things really can get back to normal.

Does 100% open with no restrictions mean NO MASKS??? I did not take the new guideline to mean no masks. Isn't that still up to the establishment to require masks?

[MDLNB]

Was our society always this selfish? I remember a time (or maybe I made it up) when we cared for our neighbors, friends and family. There now seems to be an attitude the hell with others, open everything up because I think it's the right thing to do for me....even claiming constitutional rights are violated.


Seems to me that being "selfish" in this case is those that demand that business be closed or fit their standards. I care for my neighbors so I tell them to stay home if they feel threatened. I think it is selfish to demand that people remain unemployed because someone feels that the threat of a spooky virus might-might-might be around and infect those that are perfectly fine with taking the chance. Maybe I have it wrong and the REAL reason that some want the businesses to go bankrupt-close and the economy to tank is really Politically based.

[La lamy]

Do you wish to be buried here as well?

Off topic, but I learned no one gets buried here. Pack em and ship em I heard from a LSL bus tour.

[La lamy]

One can only hope the vaccine and herd immunity will get it done.

There's already been mutations of the virus and I'm afraid, just like the flu shot, the "Covid vaccine" will not be perfect. People are getting reinfected after having it once, so that's a big tell tale sign we may not get full control of this for quite a while. :shocked:

[coffeebean]

Seems to me that being "selfish" in this case is those that demand that business be closed or fit their standards. I care for my neighbors so I tell them to stay home if they feel threatened. I think it is selfish to demand that people remain unemployed because someone feels that the threat of a spooky virus might-might-might be around and infect those that are perfectly fine with taking the chance. Maybe I have it wrong and the REAL reason that some want the businesses to go bankrupt-close and the economy to tank is really Politically based.

IMHO, you have it wrong. I have been a proponent of mask wearing to BOOST the economy. If more people wore masks and socially distanced PROPERLY, that will make the more vulnerable feel more safe to be out and about. More safe to go to restaurants and spend their money. More safe to live life and get this economy back to where it was pre-Covid.

I understand what you folks are saying that 50% capacity is not enough for a service establishment to make a profit. I get it. I just wish there were an easier and safer way to open these establishments at 100% occupancy.

[Irish Sissy]

I'm not either

[Joyce952]

Restaurants, bars and other businesses can open at 100% capacity. Not sure I'm on board for that at this point. Sad to say, hubby and I will not be dining in as much as we have in the past when occupancy was 50%. It is still too hot for us to dine outside. Not happy with this decision to go ahead with Phase 3 of Florida's re-opening plan.

I agree with you, hope this doesn't bring up more cases

[Mrprez]

I remember the good old days when watching black and white TV. I remember Beaver saying "but Johnny down the street is allowed to do it...." What's Germany have to do with us? Nothing is the correct answer.

Exactly. Germany, a country the size of Montana.

[jimjamuser]

I remember the good old days when watching black and white TV. I remember Beaver saying "but Johnny down the street is allowed to do it...." What's Germany have to do with us? Nothing is the correct answer.
Nothing is also the correct answer to, "what will help you if you are NOT paying attention?"

[jimjamuser]

I am not an anti masker. I am more factual. Google the size of the virus and the weave of mask, the science is mask do no protect the person wearing the mask. As far a stopping the wearer of the mask from spreading it in vapor droplets, no one knows how much of the virus is attached to vapor droplets and just how much is stopped by a mask. Some of your vapor from breathing goes out around the nose, sides and bottom of the mask. Yes the mask does stop some of the virus in vapor, how much we don't know. In reality everyone fiddles with there mask, touches their masks and reuse their mask, so just maybe any good being done by stopping some of virus spread into your mask you most likely handled the mask over and over and putting you hands in contact with who knows what. Again I am not an anti masker.
There are many videos on You Tube of action shots of the droplets with no mask and with a mask. There are some but not many going downward (to the ground where they are not very harmful). You can also see the distance without a mask that a sneeze travels. Then, judge for yourself.

[jimjamuser]

Seems to me that being "selfish" in this case is those that demand that business be closed or fit their standards. I care for my neighbors so I tell them to stay home if they feel threatened. I think it is selfish to demand that people remain unemployed because someone feels that the threat of a spooky virus might-might-might be around and infect those that are perfectly fine with taking the chance. Maybe I have it wrong and the REAL reason that some want the businesses to go bankrupt-close and the economy to tank is really Politically based.
That is a huge stretch.

[Aloha1]

Delaying the virus is the same as saying "saving lives". Are you against saving lives? Maybe they opened too early and they will learn from that. Their total deaths will be lower than the US's when and if this Plague is ever over. The US is learning NOTHING from other countries.

OMG. Delaying the Virus means it is STILL going to infect people. The science is irrefutable. All one has to do is look at what is happening today in the EU and UK.

[Aloha1]

I believe that your FL governor is doing this for one main reason. Sorry I know we aren't suppose to be political on here but ... I believe FL is going to be a key state in determining the next president. FL opens up to 100%, kids back in school, life back to "normal" is exactly what Trump is pushing and the FL governor doing what he can to promote. I hope it goes well, we need to get back to normal. If your FL experiment goes well, Trump re-elected. If it doesn't, more people will suffer. Let the experiment begin.

Our "Florida Experiment"?? So, are you from Moscow or Beijing, since you obviously are not from TV?

[MDLNB]

There are many videos on You Tube of action shots of the droplets with no mask and with a mask. There are some but not many going downward (to the ground where they are not very harmful). You can also see the distance without a mask that a sneeze travels. Then, judge for yourself.


I wear the thinnest mask I could find. Not for protection, but to make scaredy cats feel safe when I am around them. And I just smile at the folks in Publix or Walmart that are maskless. Of course they can't see my smile. Since 99.4% of those infected recover from the virus, I figure I have a better chance of getting bit by a poisonous snake and dying.

[jimjamuser]

IMHO, you have it wrong. I have been a proponent of mask wearing to BOOST the economy. If more people wore masks and socially distanced PROPERLY, that will make the more vulnerable feel more safe to be out and about. More safe to go to restaurants and spend their money. More safe to live life and get this economy back to where it was pre-Covid.

I understand what you folks are saying that 50% capacity is not enough for a service establishment to make a profit. I get it. I just wish there were an easier and safer way to open these establishments at 100% occupancy.
It is up to the businesses to innovate to the changing economic and social environment, that the CV has FOREVER changed. They have no choice. And the CV may change into a more not less deadly Plague. Let us hope that it evolves into a less deadly disease

[Scbang]

They used contact tracing via an individual’s cell phone. You would be okay with a government entity tracking your whereabouts 24x7? Specific to South Korea, They also confiscated medical supplies from commercial companies and as yet there has not been a final decision on the repayment methods. You’re okay with that too?

Dr. Fauci said it and I agree. After Pearl Harbor and 9/11, the country and the leadership were united in our unified response. That's how the dept of homeland security was created despite so many concerns regarding civil liberty. With possible death of 1M Americans, we should have thought hard and made a united decision, not leaving it to each states where anyone can cross the state borders at will.

[jimjamuser]

Exactly. Germany, a country the size of Montana.
Just compare per 1,000 residents. That would just take basic arithmetic.

[jimjamuser]

Exactly. Germany, a country the size of Montana.
Just compare each country per 1,000 residents. I would take only basic arithmetic.

[Scbang]

One can only hope the vaccine and herd immunity will get it done.
Herd immunity requires 60-70% of population to have antibody. Are you willing accept 200M Americans infected with COVID? How many will be sick and how many will die?

[Aloha1]

There's already been mutations of the virus and I'm afraid, just like the flu shot, the "Covid vaccine" will not be perfect. People are getting reinfected after having it once, so that's a big tell tale sign we may not get full control of this for quite a while. :shocked:

That has been debunked.

[Byte1]

So, if I don't feel safe going out to eat I should stay home. OK, but, if you go out to eat and come in contact with someone that is asymptomatic and you get the virus, and you are one of the "lucky" ones that is also asymptomatic, how many people will you spread it to with no clue that you are doing so? How many will die because you felt safe and wanted to support the economy.
Remember the Ford Pinto? There was a problem with the design, if it was jit in the rear a bolt could go into the gas tank and cause the car to burst into flames. Ford determined that it was cheaper to pay off the families of people who died then to recall the car to fix the problem.

I guess it's cheaper to let people die then to close down (or at least restrict) the economy.

Sounds like a whole lot of "what if's"
At least 50% of drivers of autos and golf carts over 60yo should not be driving either. It's not safe and they are putting everyone at risk.

[jimjamuser]

I don't see how you are going to "die" if you don't frequent the establishment. Maybe I got the whole thing wrong. I did not see a mandate that stipulated that one MUST eat out. I don't drink, but I still have the option to eat at places that serve alcohol or not. I did not see the part of the Governor's mandate that said one MUST eat out at least once a month. Am I being selfish if I eat out when others are too afraid to leave their homes without a biohazard suit?
It could be considered selfish, since the definition of being selfish is thinking only about one's self and NOT being considerate for others. A restaurant that does NOT mandate masks is a selfish restaurant. Phase 3, in general, could be considered to be selfish. A state that does NOT mandate mask could be considered selfish. There is plenty of SELFISH going around here!

[Scbang]

I wear the thinnest mask I could find. Not for protection, but to make scaredy cats feel safe when I am around them. And I just smile at the folks in Publix or Walmart that are maskless. Of course they can't see my smile. Since 99.4% of those infected recover from the virus, I figure I have a better chance of getting bit by a poisonous snake and dying.
Good for you. Asian countries have been wearing thinnest masks for ages. No matter how thin they are, they still prevent droplets going out to harm other people. Whether you believe in masks or not, you are doing a great favor for a lot of people around you.

[Bucco]

You mean like the pandemic of 1918 "FOREVER changed us"?...Which it did not.

"The World Changed Its Approach to Health After the 1918 Flu. Will It After The COVID-19 Outbreak?"

The World Changed Its Approach to Health After the 1918 Flu | Time (https://time.com/5797629/health-1918-flu-epidemic/)

"A science journalist explains how the Spanish flu changed the world"

COVID-19: How did Spanish flu change the world? | World Economic Forum (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/covid-19-how-spanish-flu-changed-world/)

[Bucco]

That has been debunked.

Not debunked at all, but if you had read a bit you would have found that does not make it more dangerous and gee......you still could have made your P point.

"Scientists in Houston on Wednesday released a study of more than 5,000 genetic sequences of the coronavirus that reveals the virus’s continual accumulation of mutations, one of which may have made it more contagious.

The new report, however, did not find that these mutations have made the virus deadlier or changed clinical outcomes. All viruses accumulate genetic mutations, and most are insignificant, scientists say."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/23/houston-coronavirus-mutations/?arc404=true

The study printed in FORBES did find it to be more dangerous, but they are all studies.

Coronavirus May Have Mutated To Become More Contagious, Study Finds (https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/09/23/coronavirus-may-have-mutated-to-become-more-contagious-study-finds/#36dd0e3f365c)

Point is IT HAS MUTATED and without your supplying some link to where it was debunked.....well....

[jimjamuser]

You mean like the pandemic of 1918 "FOREVER changed us"?...Which it did not.
The 1918 Plague set US progress back somewhat for 4 years, which could (?) have an affect on us today. Progress is built on past progress. People STILL talk about the DARK AGES. The 4 years of 1918 Plague could be like a "gray age" in the US. I am NOT the only person in the US that thinks that we will have a pre CV history and a post CV history. These people are imminent historians.

[Bucco]

Just compare each country per 1,000 residents. I would take only basic arithmetic.

"To reach herd immunity for COVID-19, likely 70% or more of the population would need to be immune. Without a vaccine, over 200 million Americans would have to get infected before we reach this threshold. Put another way, even if the current pace of the COVID-19 pandemic continues in the United States, we won’t reach herd immunity in 2021. If current daily death rates continue, over half a million Americans would be dead from COVID-19 by that time."

Early Herd Immunity against COVID-19: A Dangerous Misconception - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-our-experts/early-herd-immunity-against-covid-19-a-dangerous-misconception)

[oldtimes]

"To reach herd immunity for COVID-19, likely 70% or more of the population would need to be immune. Without a vaccine, over 200 million Americans would have to get infected before we reach this threshold. Put another way, even if the current pace of the COVID-19 pandemic continues in the United States, we won’t reach herd immunity in 2021. If current daily death rates continue, over half a million Americans would be dead from COVID-19 by that time."

Early Herd Immunity against COVID-19: A Dangerous Misconception - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-our-experts/early-herd-immunity-against-covid-19-a-dangerous-misconception)

How do we know how many asymptotic cases we have had that have never been tested?

[Byte1]

That is a huge stretch.

So is saying that your safety is the responsibility of someone else

[Byte1]

It could be considered selfish, since the definition of being selfish is thinking only about one's self and NOT being considerate for others. A restaurant that does NOT mandate masks is a selfish restaurant. Phase 3, in general, could be considered to be selfish. A state that does NOT mandate mask could be considered selfish. There is plenty of SELFISH going around here!

That's a BIG stretch

[oldtimes]

If we had a complete lock down of the country like Korea and Japan did, we could have opened ALL business by now with a bit of restriction. By not buttoning the first button correctly, we are now in no win situation.

In Sweden they had no lockdown and are not having a resurgence.

[rustyp]

Selfish ? You decide. Here is a snapshot on Sept 23rd of TV neighbors that you will be soon sharing space with or having indirect contact with items they touched in restaurants, town squares, pickleball courts, the doctor's office, hardware store, gas pumps, etc.

86435

[jimjamuser]

You mean like the pandemic of 1918 "FOREVER changed us"?...Which it did not.
The 1918 Flu was a factor that caused the Depression, which caused great US migration of unemployed workers. It caused the rich people to buy up bankrupt businesses and mortgages. Leaving the lower classes to only rent homes and apartments and thus NOT build up wealth. So, great wealth disparity.

The same is true and will be true with this current Pandemic!

[jimjamuser]

Dr. Fauci said it and I agree. After Pearl Harbor and 9/11, the country and the leadership were united in our unified response. That's how the dept of homeland security was created despite so many concerns regarding civil liberty. With possible death of 1M Americans, we should have thought hard and made a united decision, not leaving it to each states where anyone can cross the state borders at will.
Good post. I agree.

[jimjamuser]

Selfish ? You decide. Here is a snapshot on Sept 23rd of TV neighbors that you will be soon sharing space with or having indirect contact with items they touched in restaurants, town squares, pickleball courts, the doctor's office, hardware store, gas pumps, etc.

86435
Looks like they are pretty patriotic. So, maybe they will be putting flags on the cremated ashes in urns of their friends that they gave CV to. No masks, crowded in, but at least they were outside.

[Bucco]

In Sweden they had no lockdown and are not having a resurgence.

Sweden, where a shutdown-free pandemic response prompted a global debate, is seeing another wave of covid-19 cases, with the country’s state epidemiologist warning this week that it was heading in the “wrong direction” as winter approaches.

Sweden’s public health body recorded 554 new covid-19 cases Thursday — the highest since early July — and 417 on Friday, according to its online tracking tool, capping off what epidemiologist Anders Tegnell had warned would be a “record week” for new cases.
“It is slowly but surely going in the wrong direction in Sweden, even if the situation is not as serious as in other parts of Europe,” Tegnell said at a news briefing Thursday, according to the newspaper Svenska Dagbladet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/09/25/sweden-coronavirus-debate-lockdown-new-cases/

[Tblue]

There are many videos on You Tube of action shots of the droplets with no mask and with a mask. There are some but not many going downward (to the ground where they are not very harmful). You can also see the distance without a mask that a sneeze travels. Then, judge for yourself.
I have seen those videos and that show how the droplets are spread with no mask and with a mask, all very good. However look at the science, the COVID flu that is not attached to droplets is way to tiny to be seen in those videos. We are talking about something so small it can only be seen with an electron microscope so I am told, sorry You Tube videos is just not it. Again I am not anti mask, just anti believing a mask will protect you.

[Aloha1]

"The World Changed Its Approach to Health After the 1918 Flu. Will It After The COVID-19 Outbreak?"

The World Changed Its Approach to Health After the 1918 Flu | Time (https://time.com/5797629/health-1918-flu-epidemic/)

"A science journalist explains how the Spanish flu changed the world"

COVID-19: How did Spanish flu change the world? | World Economic Forum (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/covid-19-how-spanish-flu-changed-world/)

Again, you miss the point. The OP was referring to changes in ALL of our normal lifestyles, NOT health care. He thinks restaurants will disappear, no one will work in an office, etc. You are certainly old enough to know that when we were growing up, we were taught common sense about hand washing, covering your mouth when you sneeze, etc. Those were perhaps changes from 1918, BUT, society continued.

[coffeebean]

I have seen those videos and that show how the droplets are spread with no mask and with a mask, all very good. However look at the science, the COVID flu that is not attached to droplets is way to tiny to be seen in those videos. We are talking about something so small it can only be seen with an electron microscope so I am told, sorry You Tube videos is just not it. Again I am not anti mask, just anti believing a mask will protect you.

Really? I'm not aware that the virus can be transmitted when not encased in either droplets or aerosols. How can the virus be expelled from someone's respiratory system without being encased in droplets? Do you have a link that says this is feasible?

Universal masking is what will protect us. When a person who is wearing a mask interacts with another person who is wearing a mask, these people protect each other.

[Swoop]

Sweden, where a shutdown-free pandemic response prompted a global debate, is seeing another wave of covid-19 cases, with the country’s state epidemiologist warning this week that it was heading in the “wrong direction” as winter approaches.

Sweden’s public health body recorded 554 new covid-19 cases Thursday — the highest since early July — and 417 on Friday, according to its online tracking tool, capping off what epidemiologist Anders Tegnell had warned would be a “record week” for new cases.
“It is slowly but surely going in the wrong direction in Sweden, even if the situation is not as serious as in other parts of Europe,” Tegnell said at a news briefing Thursday, according to the newspaper Svenska Dagbladet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/09/25/sweden-coronavirus-debate-lockdown-new-cases/

Look at the actual numbers, they haven’t had more than 5 Covid deaths on any day over the last two months with most days fewer than 3...

[Aloha1]

The 1918 Flu was a factor that caused the Depression, which caused great US migration of unemployed workers. It caused the rich people to buy up bankrupt businesses and mortgages. Leaving the lower classes to only rent homes and apartments and thus NOT build up wealth. So, great wealth disparity.

The same is true and will be true with this current Pandemic!

I assume you never studied history. The depression?? It started over 11 years AFTER 1918 and there were many causes such as wrong moves by the Federal Reserve and the Congress which exacerbated what should have been, at best, a recession.Government decisions made after 1932 continued to prolong it. It took WW2 to finally end it.

[Stu from NYC]

I assume you never studied history. The depression?? It started over 11 years AFTER 1918 and there were many causes such as wrong moves by the Federal Reserve and the Congress which exacerbated what should have been, at best, a recession.Government decisions made after 1932 continued to prolong it. It took WW2 to finally end it.

Agreed those are the causes of the great depression which started 11 years after the end of the first world war.

The Presidents during this period were instrumental in making it worse than it should have been.

[aviator]

100% seating in restaurants way too soon and we will see results here in the villages in 2 to three weeks --- hopefully there is no spike of the virus here -- unfortunately europe has seen a huge increase after they reopened their restaurants and bars - it is too bad that it is an election year since our higher ups think reopening everything will make them look better --- will continue to eat and cook great meals at home - having alot of fun trying new receipts - wife and i take turns cooking -- and as several of our totv posters have said if you don't like it stay home -- so shall we :)

As I have in the past been called to the defense of the United States of America. I will honor, respect and defend your rights to choose. If your choice is to stay home to defend yourself, I will respect that. If anybody should come to your home and try and force you to go to a restaurant or to the squares, you just call me and I will come and defend your right to stay home. Freedom shall prevail.

[coffeebean]

Nothing is being taken away from you. Restaurants are run by capitalists .. people who put up their own money to provide a service for a targeted market: those people who enjoy the restaurants food, surroundings and ambience. Prior to COVID, it was still a business with a very high failure rate. Over the past six months, it became even more perilous. They need a certain capacity to remain in business. If ten people decide to patronize the restaurant, and you decide you no longer like the surroundings and ambience, they may find they don;t miss you, and perhaps they can still survive, and hopefully thrive. THEY dont owe you anything. The governor is removing restrictions so the economy can pick up and run, and stop the hand-outs. If you have an idea for a restaurant that has a large footprint of mostly empty space that insures patrons stay far away from each other and follows whatever rules you deem to insure health and safety, knock yourself out and put up your own money. It is a FREE country after all .. but you have no right to put a business persons welfare at risk by dictating what kind of people patronize their facility, or what rules they should follow.
This is the reason I will not support any restaurant which does not maintain social distancing with their tables and booths set ups. They won't miss hubby and me and our health comes first.

[Buckeye Bleau]

It is just so simple if you are unhealthy and at risk, stay home. If not, stop living in fear. The CDC has revealed that 94% of reported deaths were not solely due to the deadly virus. No one wants to be sick, but understand that viruses have existed in our ecosystem since the beginning of time. Use good hygiene and some common sense and try to get beyond this apocolyptic fear driven mentality.

VERY well said. Thank you for the explanation to those that unfortunately have been subjected to far too much incorrect information.

[graciegirl]

VERY well said. Thank you for the explanation to those that unfortunately have been subjected to far too much incorrect information.

Buckeye here too, but not blue. RED. I am a firm believer of the free market. I am a supporter of capitalism. I consider myself a supporter of traditional medicine, not a holistic girl. I worry about our economy. I agree that if people want to risk dining out, then that is their choice.

However, I am of the belief that the mere fact that a person is 70 or older makes them at higher risk. I doubt few of the age who predominantly live in The Villages, do not have elevated blood pressure or edgy chlorestorol, or perfect heart rhythms or do not have the natural, normal slope in health that comes with age. In other words, if you take any prescribed medication, or refuse to take any prescribed medication that means you have an elevated risk....even if it works.

Plus a lot of sane people are not terrified. They are choosing not to go to restaurants and feel bad and guilty that they are not supporting the economy. Free enterprise to me is a good thing. Living another ten years is however an important goal of mine.

[Stu from NYC]

Nothing is being taken away from you. Restaurants are run by capitalists .. people who put up their own money to provide a service for a targeted market: those people who enjoy the restaurants food, surroundings and ambience. Prior to COVID, it was still a business with a very high failure rate. Over the past six months, it became even more perilous. They need a certain capacity to remain in business. If ten people decide to patronize the restaurant, and you decide you no longer like the surroundings and ambience, they may find they don;t miss you, and perhaps they can still survive, and hopefully thrive. THEY dont owe you anything. The governor is removing restrictions so the economy can pick up and run, and stop the hand-outs. If you have an idea for a restaurant that has a large footprint of mostly empty space that insures patrons stay far away from each other and follows whatever rules you deem to insure health and safety, knock yourself out and put up your own money. It is a FREE country after all .. but you have no right to put a business persons welfare at risk by dictating what kind of people patronize their facility, or what rules they should follow.

The problem to me is someone comes to a restaurant, sits too close to someone who unknowing has the virus and it comes to a new person who in turns infects others.

[Tblue]

Really? I'm not aware that the virus can be transmitted when not encased in either droplets or aerosols. How can the virus be expelled from someone's respiratory system without being encased in droplets? Do you have a link that says this is feasible?

Universal masking is what will protect us. When a person who is wearing a mask interacts with another person who is wearing a mask, these people protect each other.
Wonderful, so what happens to the virus when the droplets drys, does it immediately disappear? Look at the WHO, I hate to use them as a reference but they do admit the virus can exist outside of droplets, how much is questionable. Nowhere I have found how much exists outside of water droplets. But back to the You Tube videos that show how masks reduce the spread of moisture in a sneeze, yes it does slow or stop the spread of moisture, a very good thing, however how much virus is outside the moisture droplets? Please wear a mask if you must, I do not believe a mask is protecting the wearer of the mask when taking into account all the practical things the average person does a with mask. When you sneeze in a mask droplets go everywhere unless a proper 100% fit, who does that? They are fiddled with, reused over and over, all touched usually with un gloved hands maybe helping to spread the virus. So any good done by stopping some of the virus in droplets in a mask is un-done in how the average person handles a reused mask or a new mask without a proper fit and the constant fiddling with the mask and eventual disposal of a contaminated mask. We seem to agree a vaccine will be a big step to being normal again. Again I am not an anti masker.

[JoMar]

VERY well said. Thank you for the explanation to those that unfortunately have been subjected to far too much incorrect information.

Another misuse of a quoted statistic. But hey, if it works for you :)

[Two Bills]

Look at the actual numbers, they haven’t had more than 5 Covid deaths on any day over the last two months with most days fewer than 3...

Probably because most oldies in care were killed off first time around!

[jimjamuser]

I have seen those videos and that show how the droplets are spread with no mask and with a mask, all very good. However look at the science, the COVID flu that is not attached to droplets is way to tiny to be seen in those videos. We are talking about something so small it can only be seen with an electron microscope so I am told, sorry You Tube videos is just not it. Again I am not anti mask, just anti believing a mask will protect you.
That is passive / aggressive on mask-wearing. This period of US leading the world in DEATH is NO time to lack conviction. Phase 3 increases social contact. Is that good or bad? It has been proven BAD by the experience of Spain and New Jersey. Masks have been proven GOOD by Japan, S.Korea, Australia, and New Zealand. The average person in the US and TV Land has been lied to and misguided by special interest groups, select Television, Russian hackers and bots, leaders with large microphones - in order to TRY to have life in the US APPEAR to be NORMAL in spite of The CV Plague. You KNOW deep down that NOTHING is now NORMAL.

The only prudent course of action is to FIGHT the pressure of things like Phase 3 - the forced attempt to create an ARTIFICIAL normal, which is designed for Wall St and not for Main ST in TV land. Mothers should not send their children to school. The average person should AVOID all indoor crowded groups and be very careful and wary of outdoor group gatherings. You would be helping yourself and your neighbor.

[jimjamuser]

Really? I'm not aware that the virus can be transmitted when not encased in either droplets or aerosols. How can the virus be expelled from someone's respiratory system without being encased in droplets? Do you have a link that says this is feasible?

Universal masking is what will protect us. When a person who is wearing a mask interacts with another person who is wearing a mask, these people protect each other.
That is correct.

[jimjamuser]

I assume you never studied history. The depression?? It started over 11 years AFTER 1918 and there were many causes such as wrong moves by the Federal Reserve and the Congress which exacerbated what should have been, at best, a recession.Government decisions made after 1932 continued to prolong it. It took WW2 to finally end it.
It was ONE of the factors causing the depression. It takes more than 11 years to FULLY recover from a pandemic. I stand by my statement.

[John41]

The 1918 Plague set US progress back somewhat for 4 years, which could (?) have an affect on us today. Progress is built on past progress. People STILL talk about the DARK AGES. The 4 years of 1918 Plague could be like a "gray age" in the US. I am NOT the only person in the US that thinks that we will have a pre CV history and a post CV history. These people are imminent historians.

We will definitely have a post covid history as the Chinese Communists will continue to develop viruses and we must prepare for another lab accident.

[Joe V.]

I stand by my statement.

With not an ounce of fact to support it.

[jimjamuser]

Nothing is being taken away from you. Restaurants are run by capitalists .. people who put up their own money to provide a service for a targeted market: those people who enjoy the restaurants food, surroundings and ambience. Prior to COVID, it was still a business with a very high failure rate. Over the past six months, it became even more perilous. They need a certain capacity to remain in business. If ten people decide to patronize the restaurant, and you decide you no longer like the surroundings and ambience, they may find they don;t miss you, and perhaps they can still survive, and hopefully thrive. THEY dont owe you anything. The governor is removing restrictions so the economy can pick up and run, and stop the hand-outs. If you have an idea for a restaurant that has a large footprint of mostly empty space that insures patrons stay far away from each other and follows whatever rules you deem to insure health and safety, knock yourself out and put up your own money. It is a FREE country after all .. but you have no right to put a business persons welfare at risk by dictating what kind of people patronize their facility, or what rules they should follow.
The CV Plague is the leading factor. Entrepreneurs will be forced to change. Society will be unstable for awhile, restaurants included.

[graciegirl]

The CV Plague is the leading factor. Entrepreneurs will be forced to change. Society will be unstable for awhile, restaurants included.

It is another problem without any solution at this time. Much like global warming.

[Byte1]

The problem to me is someone comes to a restaurant, sits too close to someone who unknowing has the virus and it comes to a new person who in turns infects others.

I don't see what the difference is between now and during the Flu season. If you are older and have health issues, you are just as prone to die from the flu as you are from COVID, give or take. The point is that we cannot live in fear. We all take chances to some degree. I know that as you get older, one tends to be more careful, hoping to prolong the expiration date as much as possible. Human nature. But, businesses cannot function by staying closed, and people do not get paid. If you are not paid then you can't eat or pay for shelter. We are blessed because we have a more or less stable income when retired. Others are not so fortunate.
The other point is that NO one is forcing anyone to frequent businesses. We live in a free society and everyone has to choice to stay home and stay safe. But, is living safe really living?
CDC says 99.4% is the recovery rate. There are far more illnesses with a higher mortality rate.
I respect anyone that wishes to stay home. Please do, because I hated the lines when the snowbirds were here.
Besides, walking past someone that has the virus and no mask will not get you infected. The Surgeon General said you would have to both be maskless and stand there (close) and chat for an extended period to make you threatened by infection from someone that is infected. The chances of you standing near someone maskless and also infected is so slim that you stand an easier chance of getting hit by lightening.
I am a firm believer in the individual's right to wear a mask and I respect their concern and safety measure. But, don't presume to be an expert on what I NEED to do with my life in order to make you safe.
I wear a mask when I go shopping, since there are signs requiring me to. I am not concerned about anyone around me being infected. I do not even believe that I would catch it if someone in the store had the virus and did not wear a mask. If that makes me a fool, well I have lived 70 years all over the world where there were some very exotic diseases and am still able to do the things I did when I was 50yo. Maybe not as fast....:icon_wink:

[Byte1]

The problem to me is someone comes to a restaurant, sits too close to someone who unknowing has the virus and it comes to a new person who in turns infects others.

That's stretching it pretty far and deep.

You are supposing that someone HAS the virus and that they are sitting near you. Then you are supposing that you "unknowingly" have it and pass it on to someone else. Lots of IF, if, if, and maybes there. Better chance that you are sitting near a window and an old person hits the gas instead of the brake when parking and runs through the wall and kills someone.
But, like I said before don't take chances, stay home. I like it when I don't have to wait for a table. I figure I am taking a chance with my life every time I allow someone else to cook for me.

[JoMar]

Assuming that those that need to stay home and their lack of spending won't hurt the businesses. Of course that also assumes that those don't care will be out in enough numbers to make up the difference....we will see.

[Aloha1]

It was ONE of the factors causing the depression. It takes more than 11 years to FULLY recover from a pandemic. I stand by my statement.

????????. You were pontificating on the depression being caused by the 1918 flu. The recovery after 1918 was fully done by 1922.

[Aloha1]

Not debunked at all, but if you had read a bit you would have found that does not make it more dangerous and gee......you still could have made your P point.

"Scientists in Houston on Wednesday released a study of more than 5,000 genetic sequences of the coronavirus that reveals the virus’s continual accumulation of mutations, one of which may have made it more contagious.

The new report, however, did not find that these mutations have made the virus deadlier or changed clinical outcomes. All viruses accumulate genetic mutations, and most are insignificant, scientists say."



The study printed in FORBES did find it to be more dangerous, but they are all studies.

Coronavirus May Have Mutated To Become More Contagious, Study Finds (https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/09/23/coronavirus-may-have-mutated-to-become-more-contagious-study-finds/#36dd0e3f365c)



Point is IT HAS MUTATED and without your supplying some link to where it was debunked.....well....


The OP was posting that people were getting REINFECTED, which has not happened.

Yes, the virus has mutated as they typically do. It now appears to be less deadly but more contagious.

[Aloha1]

That is passive / aggressive on mask-wearing. This period of US leading the world in DEATH is NO time to lack conviction. Phase 3 increases social contact. Is that good or bad? It has been proven BAD by the experience of Spain and New Jersey. Masks have been proven GOOD by Japan, S.Korea, Australia, and New Zealand. The average person in the US and TV Land has been lied to and misguided by special interest groups, select Television, Russian hackers and bots, leaders with large microphones - in order to TRY to have life in the US APPEAR to be NORMAL in spite of The CV Plague. You KNOW deep down that NOTHING is now NORMAL.

The only prudent course of action is to FIGHT the pressure of things like Phase 3 - the forced attempt to create an ARTIFICIAL normal, which is designed for Wall St and not for Main ST in TV land. Mothers should not send their children to school. The average person should AVOID all indoor crowded groups and be very careful and wary of outdoor group gatherings. You would be helping yourself and your neighbor.

I'm curious. Where did you earn your medical degree?

[Scbang]

In Sweden they had no lockdown and are not having a resurgence.
They had the highest death rate ( 5500 people ) in Scandinavia then they learned how to do social distancing.

[Tblue]

Really? I'm not aware that the virus can be transmitted when not encased in either droplets or aerosols. How can the virus be expelled from someone's respiratory system without being encased in droplets? Do you have a link that says this is feasible?

Universal masking is what will protect us. When a person who is wearing a mask interacts with another person who is wearing a mask, these people protect each other.

Here a couple of links to say masks are useless and some science to back it up. My contention from the beginning is improper mask wearing may help spread this virus, reuse of the masks, improper fit of a mask, wearing it below the nose, fiddling with the mask, improper disposal of a mask, just leaving a contaminated mask lying around. All things people do that could aid with the spread of this disease. In the facebook article you will see this paragraph near the end. "The public is being told to wear masks for which they have not been trained in the proper techniques. As a result, they are mishandling, frequently touching, and constantly reusing masks in a way that increase contamination and we are more likely than not to increase transmission of the disease" This about sums up my position on masks.
Tim Watt | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/100004937110956/posts/1720250374816183/) Also try https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BFO1658736

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Well, I believe masks arent required anymore so if you arent going to places where people dont wear masks, I guess youll be vegetating at home for life

The "requirement" of masks in Florida has been EXCLUSIVELY up to the business owner. Masks were not required in public, and businesses had, and still has, the right to mandate who can and cannot enter their building.

Most businesses that required masks, still require masks, from what I've seen so far. Now, maybe they have no way of enforcing that requirement, but they can still have the sign on their door saying "Masks required."

If you have any respect for the business, you'll wear the mask in their building if they require it, EVEN if they can't enforce it. If you don't have any respect for it, then ask yourself why you're going there at all.

[Tblue]

Here a couple of links to say masks are useless and some science to back it up. My contention from the beginning is improper mask wearing may help spread this virus, reuse of the masks, improper fit of a mask, wearing it below the nose, fiddling with the mask, improper disposal of a mask, just leaving a contaminated mask lying around. All things people do that could aid with the spread of this disease. In the facebook article you will see this paragraph near the end. "The public is being told to wear masks for which they have not been trained in the proper techniques. As a result, they are mishandling, frequently touching, and constantly reusing masks in a way that increase contamination and we are more likely than not to increase transmission of the disease" This about sums up my position on masks.
Tim Watt | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/100004937110956/posts/1720250374816183/) Also try https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BFO1658736

Sorry one of the links was dropped her it is.
Tim Watt | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/100004937110956/posts/1720250374816183/)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Wishful thinking, most likely from someone who never had economics.

Here's some fun economics for ya. No statistics so you don't even have to do any mathematics.

Restaurants had restricted the number of people allowed in them, per order of the Governor. That was great. Most people still didn't go to the restaurants, which isn't unusual, because most people don't usually go to restaurants every night anyway. If they did, the lines would be halfway to Tennessee.

But many people chose not to go anyway because it just wasn't worth the risk.

Meanwhile - now the governor says "okay you don't have to restrict anymore." Which is fine. Now all the people who WERE going, can go again, without restrictions. Except - all those people who chose not to go anyway because it wasn't worth the risk? They will still not go anyway because it still isn't worth the risk.

AND...

Those people who DID go, because the capacity was limited, and they were willing to take THAT risk? Well - you've just removed that capacity. So they'll be staying at home too, even though they weren't, up until the Governor removed the max cap limit.

Here's where the economics come in:

Originally - everyone went. Business was boomin.
COVID hits - no one goes, businesses are closed for a short period.
Restrictions begin - some people are chomping at the bit and make a bee-line to eat. Some people venture cautiously, the rest stay home anyway.
Restrictions removed - the cautious venturers will now join the ones who stay home.

Business will be SLOWER now - because the people who WERE going BECAUSE of the restrictions - will stop going.

The people who wanted to go while it was restricted, were already going, so this won't be an increase in business.

[valuemkt]

The problem to me is someone comes to a restaurant, sits too close to someone who unknowing has the virus and it comes to a new person who in turns infects others.

Yep, that is certainly a possibility.. Just like catching a cold from someone sitting next to you in an airplane, a concert or a college football game. "You pays your money and takes your chances".. Just like you do when you get behind the wheel of your car, go to church or cross the street .. Free choice vs voluntary solitary confinement.

[coffeebean]

Wonderful, so what happens to the virus when the droplets drys, does it immediately disappear? Look at the WHO, I hate to use them as a reference but they do admit the virus can exist outside of droplets, how much is questionable. Nowhere I have found how much exists outside of water droplets. But back to the You Tube videos that show how masks reduce the spread of moisture in a sneeze, yes it does slow or stop the spread of moisture, a very good thing, however how much virus is outside the moisture droplets? Please wear a mask if you must, I do not believe a mask is protecting the wearer of the mask when taking into account all the practical things the average person does a with mask. When you sneeze in a mask droplets go everywhere unless a proper 100% fit, who does that? They are fiddled with, reused over and over, all touched usually with un gloved hands maybe helping to spread the virus. So any good done by stopping some of the virus in droplets in a mask is un-done in how the average person handles a reused mask or a new mask without a proper fit and the constant fiddling with the mask and eventual disposal of a contaminated mask. We seem to agree a vaccine will be a big step to being normal again. Again I am not an anti masker.
I understand your concerns. The virus exits the human body's respiratory system via droplets and/or aerosols. That is the only way the virus exits the human body from the respiratory system (nose and mouth). When those droplets fall to the ground or surfaces, the droplets will dry leaving the virus all by itself. It is up to everyone to wash their hands frequently and sanitize surfaces. IF you can not do these things just remember to NOT TOUCH YOUR FACE. If you do not touch your nose, mouth or eyes with unwashed hands, you are not going to contract the virus. Personally, since this virus came upon us here in the US, I have trained myself to NEVER touch my face unless I use the inside of my shirt or I'm in the shower.

Masks don't block 100% of droplets which come a person's nose or mouth but masks do block more than no mask does. Aerosols which hang in the air, can contain the virus. What happens when the aerosol "dries up"??? I would imagine the virus can not hang in the air by itself but don't take that to the bank. I would imagine if the virus could hang in the air by itself, many more of us in the world would be sick and/or dead.

[coffeebean]

The "requirement" of masks in Florida has been EXCLUSIVELY up to the business owner. Masks were not required in public, and businesses had, and still has, the right to mandate who can and cannot enter their building.

Most businesses that required masks, still require masks, from what I've seen so far. Now, maybe they have no way of enforcing that requirement, but they can still have the sign on their door saying "Masks required."

If you have any respect for the business, you'll wear the mask in their building if they require it, EVEN if they can't enforce it. If you don't have any respect for it, then ask yourself why you're going there at all.

Agree. Employees of establishments that post a sign "Masks REQUIRED", are essentially held hostage to those people who disregard the required safety measures. People should show respect for the employees who are providing the services for us. Anti-maskers need not enter a building which REQUIRES masks. Go elsewhere.

[coffeebean]

Here's some fun economics for ya. No statistics so you don't even have to do any mathematics.

Restaurants had restricted the number of people allowed in them, per order of the Governor. That was great. Most people still didn't go to the restaurants, which isn't unusual, because most people don't usually go to restaurants every night anyway. If they did, the lines would be halfway to Tennessee.

But many people chose not to go anyway because it just wasn't worth the risk.

Meanwhile - now the governor says "okay you don't have to restrict anymore." Which is fine. Now all the people who WERE going, can go again, without restrictions. Except - all those people who chose not to go anyway because it wasn't worth the risk? They will still not go anyway because it still isn't worth the risk.

AND...

Those people who DID go, because the capacity was limited, and they were willing to take THAT risk? Well - you've just removed that capacity. So they'll be staying at home too, even though they weren't, up until the Governor removed the max cap limit.

Here's where the economics come in:

Originally - everyone went. Business was boomin.
COVID hits - no one goes, businesses are closed for a short period.
Restrictions begin - some people are chomping at the bit and make a bee-line to eat. Some people venture cautiously, the rest stay home anyway.
Restrictions removed - the cautious venturers will now join the ones who stay home.

Business will be SLOWER now - because the people who WERE going BECAUSE of the restrictions - will stop going.

The people who wanted to go while it was restricted, were already going, so this won't be an increase in business.

Thanks, OBB, for putting into words what I have been thinking when the restrictions were lifted. Hubby and I will continue to dine in a restaurant but only if they are still adhering to proper social distancing and all their employees are masked.

[Byte1]

I love that song with the line "can't always get what you want...."

[Tblue]

I understand your concerns. The virus exits the human body's respiratory system via droplets and/or aerosols. That is the only way the virus exits the human body from the respiratory system (nose and mouth). When those droplets fall to the ground or surfaces, the droplets will dry leaving the virus all by itself. It is up to everyone to wash their hands frequently and sanitize surfaces. IF you can not do these things just remember to NOT TOUCH YOUR FACE. If you do not touch your nose, mouth or eyes with unwashed hands, you are not going to contract the virus. Personally, since this virus came upon us here in the US, I have trained myself to NEVER touch my face unless I use the inside of my shirt or I'm in the shower.

Masks don't block 100% of droplets which come a person's nose or mouth but masks do block more than no mask does. Aerosols which hang in the air, can contain the virus. What happens when the aerosol "dries up"??? I would imagine the virus can not hang in the air by itself but don't take that to the bank. I would imagine if the virus could hang in the air by itself, many more of us in the world would be sick and/or dead.

Coffeebean, you seem to have a very good understanding of this virus, as far as I am concerned you are correct, I will say that again as far as I am concerned your post is correct. Masks don’t block 100% of the virus, we just don’t know, maybe 5% maybe 95%. We just don’t know. I cannot argue about that. My contention from the beginning is with everyone wearing masks incorrectly we may be adding to the problem. You sound like you take great care to not touch the mask, good for you. I am talking about the “average person” and a lot of time children who constantly touch and fiddle with the mask, wear it under their nose, re use the mask, placing the used mask in your pocket, purse or on you kitchen counter or keeping it in you car. Just so many ways to spread this stuff with improper mask use. Keep up the good work, wear your mask correctly, don’t reuse the mask, remove, handle and store it correctly. No one wants this flu, but fortunately the chances of getting it is very rare and if indeed we should get it there are treatments.

[Aloha1]

Here's some fun economics for ya. No statistics so you don't even have to do any mathematics.

Restaurants had restricted the number of people allowed in them, per order of the Governor. That was great. Most people still didn't go to the restaurants, which isn't unusual, because most people don't usually go to restaurants every night anyway. If they did, the lines would be halfway to Tennessee.

But many people chose not to go anyway because it just wasn't worth the risk.

Meanwhile - now the governor says "okay you don't have to restrict anymore." Which is fine. Now all the people who WERE going, can go again, without restrictions. Except - all those people who chose not to go anyway because it wasn't worth the risk? They will still not go anyway because it still isn't worth the risk.

AND...

Those people who DID go, because the capacity was limited, and they were willing to take THAT risk? Well - you've just removed that capacity. So they'll be staying at home too, even though they weren't, up until the Governor removed the max cap limit.

Here's where the economics come in:

Originally - everyone went. Business was boomin.
COVID hits - no one goes, businesses are closed for a short period.
Restrictions begin - some people are chomping at the bit and make a bee-line to eat. Some people venture cautiously, the rest stay home anyway.
Restrictions removed - the cautious venturers will now join the ones who stay home.

Business will be SLOWER now - because the people who WERE going BECAUSE of the restrictions - will stop going.

The people who wanted to go while it was restricted, were already going, so this won't be an increase in business.

Run that "if then" through a computer and see what comes out. We used to call that GIGO.

[ficoguy]

As Barnes said in "Platoon" - everybody gotta die some time, Red.....