2nd Wave??

[gatorbill1]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

[Toymeister]

Since the dawn of time there is one and only one cure for any virus, exposure. Be it from a vaccine or the the virus itself.

Thus be prepared to 'hunker down' for years. Or accept risks in your life as you have and continue to accept for the remainder of your life for virtually every activity in life.

And I will accept risks and enjoy life by not hunkering down.

[Dana1963]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.
Thursday’s Coronavirus Updates: 3,356 new cases, 141 new deaths reported in Florida.
WINK NEWS

[golfing eagles]

Thursday’s Coronavirus Updates: 3,356 new cases, 141 new deaths reported in Florida.
WINK NEWS

Florida Dept. of Health:

3,330 new cases
2 deaths

[oldtimes]

Florida Dept. of Health:

3,330 new cases
2 deaths

Given your expertise what is your recommendation of what people can sensibly do to protect themselves? I am not being snarky, I am genuinely interested in your opinion.

[rde3036]

The number of cases is meaningless.

In Sumter county, population of 135,000, a total of 77 people have died from the virus. That works out to .o5% of the population. Not exactly the end of the world kind of number.

This is not a virus like Ebloa. Get out and enjoy life!

[gatorbill1]

The number of cases is meaningless.

In Sumter county, population of 135,000, a total of 77 people have died from the virus. That works out to .o5% of the population. Not exactly the end of the world kind of number.

This is not a virus like Ebloa. Get out and enjoy life!

Tell that to the person who's spouse was one of the .05%

[golfing eagles]

Given your expertise what is your recommendation of what people can sensibly do to protect themselves? I am not being snarky, I am genuinely interested in your opinion.

First and foremost, social distancing. It is very hard to contract this virus from more than 6 feet away, even without a mask and especially outdoors.

Second, mask in the appropriate setting. Mostly when you cannot guarantee social distancing, and especially indoors when people are getting within 6 feet. But remember, a mask is not a suit of armor against this virus, it offers minimal protection for the wearer. It helps protect other people to a degree if not distanced. Keep in mind, however, to get the virus from another, that person has to be spewing droplets in your vicinity, he has to be positive for COVID, and in the infective stage as well, plus deliver enough of an inoculum to infect you. The odds are low, but if they were zero, there would be no pandemic. There is no need to worship at the altar of the holy mask, wear it to bed or while driving alone, etc.

Third, while there is little evidence of surface to human infection, it can't hurt to wash your hands often and use hand sanitizer. There are plenty of other germs out there that can be avoided in this fashion

Hope that answers your question

[CoachKandSportsguy]

There is a growing belief that viral load determines the severity of your infection. Therefore, don't stay inside long without adequate outside air ventilation, and wearing a mask will help stopsome inbound virus. However, the key is not a long exposure, and be sure to take Vitamin D, the fresh outdoor sunshine vitamin.

[oldtimes]

First and foremost, social distancing. It is very hard to contract this virus from more than 6 feet away, even without a mask and especially outdoors.

Second, mask in the appropriate setting. Mostly when you cannot guarantee social distancing, and especially indoors when people are getting within 6 feet. But remember, a mask is not a suit of armor against this virus, it offers minimal protection for the wearer. It helps protect other people to a degree if not distanced. Keep in mind, however, to get the virus from another, that person has to be spewing droplets in your vicinity, he has to be positive for COVID, and in the infective stage as well, plus deliver enough of an inoculum to infect you. The odds are low, but if they were zero, there would be no pandemic. There is no need to worship at the altar of the holy mask, wear it to bed or while driving alone, etc.

Third, while there is little evidence of surface to human infection, it can't hurt to wash your hands often and use hand sanitizer. There are plenty of other germs out there that can be avoided in this fashion

Hope that answers your question

Thank you that is very helpful.

[Villageswimmer]

See Dr. Fauci article just published on CNBC dot com .

[MSchad]

Florida Dept. of Health:

3,330 new cases
2 deaths

Correct: Home | Florida Department of Health COVID-19 Outbreak (https://floridahealthcovid19.gov)

[dewilson58]

I'm still grossed out by the word "spewing".
I'm going to have nightmares tonight.

[EdFNJ]

Here we go again, thread #27562 "only a couple died." ....... you can LIVE and feel like you are going to die as well for a LONG time after getting this:

COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects - Mayo Clinic (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351)


Most people who have coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) recover completely within a few weeks. But some people — even those who had mild versions of the disease — continue to experience symptoms after their initial recovery.

Older people and people with many serious medical conditions are the most likely to experience lingering COVID-19 symptoms. The most common signs and symptoms that linger over time include:

Fatigue
Cough
Shortness of breath
Headache
Joint pain

Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems

Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.

Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

Blood clots and blood vessel problems

COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.

Other organs affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.

Problems with mood and fatigue

People who have severe symptoms of COVID-19 often have to be treated in a hospital's intensive care unit, with mechanical assistance such as ventilators to breathe. Simply surviving this experience can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.

Because it's difficult to predict long-term outcomes from the new COVID-19 virus, scientists are looking at the long-term effects seen in related viruses, such as severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.
Many long-term COVID-19 effects still unknown

Much is still unknown about how COVID-19 will affect people over time. However, researchers recommend that doctors closely monitor people who have had COVID-19 to see how their organs are functioning after recovery.

It's important to remember that most people who have COVID-19 recover quickly. But the potentially long-lasting problems from COVID-19 make it even more important to reduce the spread of the disease by following precautions such as wearing masks, avoiding crowds and keeping hands clean.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Given your expertise what is your recommendation of what people can sensibly do to protect themselves? I am not being snarky, I am genuinely interested in your opinion.

I do what I can as I go about my life. My days are numbered; just don't know how many. I will die of something and it may be this virus. Hopefully I'll be able to say goodbye to my loved ones, unlike those who perish in car wrecks or are stricken with heart attacks and strokes, and run through the Golden Gate to loved ones who went before.

[collector0915]

Seems to me we are still in the midst of the first wave. I have not felt safe going anywhere since early March when we were just realizing the pandemic was upon us. Mask and gloves are the norm wherever I go and restaurant dining, large gatherings, etc. are out of the question for me for the foreseeable future.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Chris Christie says he spent 7 days in ICU before recovering from Covid - CNNPolitics (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/politics/chris-christie-coronavirus/index.html)

[vintageogauge]

Chris Christie says he spent 7 days in ICU before recovering from Covid - CNNPolitics (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/politics/chris-christie-coronavirus/index.html)

He also has asthma and is obese. He's lucky to have survived it.

[Art cov]

A lot of people wearing mask religiously are getting Covid. What exactly do we do? Most get over it just fine and some don’t. I will not hibernate inside! I will take precautions but I’m living life. I will not be driving a vehicle alone n wear a mask. If I’m outside keeping a distance, I will live life like always. If someone is sneezing away like crazy or coughing their heads off then I will politely get away from them. If your sick stay away from people. Flu n cold season is around the corner, this will get interesting. Science and doctors told us all kinds of things: When warm summer comes this was going away. Nobody remembers half of what they told us because they flip-flop on everything. I can’t keep up with all the experts, and the differing opinions. If some mask don’t work then why are they so popular everywhere? In spite of everything life is good! If we shut the television off, life gets better The news 24/7 is driving some absolutely crazy! Don’t believe the ... (nonsense).

[Phil Lipschultz]

Vitamin D3 and Vitamin C can boost your immunity. If we wore masks in crowds and washed our hands before we touched our eyes or mouth, it would most likely cut down on contracting viral illness of any kind. If we shelter too much, I believe we compromise our immune system, making us even more easily infected. Growing up - covering our mouths and washing our hands was the common advise, don't know where or when that advise went astray.

[MandoMan]

The number of cases is meaningless.

In Sumter county, population of 135,000, a total of 77 people have died from the virus. That works out to .o5% of the population. Not exactly the end of the world kind of number.

This is not a virus like Ebloa. Get out and enjoy life!

While you are sort of right, death isn’t the only thing to fear. My girlfriend’s dad died of the virus in September in Florida. Her mother nearly died, spending three weeks in the hospital when we were pretty sure she wouldn’t make it. She survived, but her dementia is much worse, and she can no longer be alone. Her home and years of belongings have been sold or thrown away, she’s had to give up driving, and she’s had to move north to live with her children or go into a nursing home. She’s alive, but her life has changed immensely, not least no longer having her husband of sixty-some years.

How many of that number have had side effects that limit their ability to work or live the life they had before. The number is much higher than the number who died.

Also, how much does it cost to spend three weeks in the hospital with constant care and lots of extras like huge amounts of oxygen and meds? Who pays for it? We all do, one way or another. It’s not free.

[dewilson58]

Vitamin D3 and Vitamin C can boost your immunity.


Zip impact on COVID.

[golfing eagles]

Zip impact on COVID.

Thank you. I challenge the OP to produce just ONE original research article of a multi-centered university double blinded, placebo controlled study of at least 2000 people in a LEGITIMATE MEDICAL JOURNAL (NEJM, JAMA, Lancet) that shows the impact of Vit D3 and C as claimed. Articles from the North Dakota journal of holistic therapy and vitamin sales techniques or a pharmacy doctoral thesis study of 22 fellow students DO NOT COUNT!!!

[Sabella]

Based on Dr. Fauci’s record why would anyone believe him , the CDC, or the other health experts who have proven since this started none of them are sure about anything relating to COVID?

[T186021]

Based on Dr. Fauci’s record why would anyone believe him , the CDC, or the other health experts who have proven since this started none of them are sure about anything relating to COVID?

Over 200,000 Americans dead from the virus, multiple documented infections from events where social distancing is not practiced, and soaring infection rates in multiple heatlh care systems in multiple states.

[Girlcopper]

Tell that to the person who's spouse was one of the .05%
Off topic with that comment. Yeah, sorry people are losing spouses but we are discussing percentages of people ill in TV

[golfing eagles]

Here we go again, thread #27562 "only a couple died." ....... you can LIVE and feel like you are going to die as well for a LONG time after getting this:

COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects - Mayo Clinic (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351)


Most people who have coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) recover completely within a few weeks. But some people — even those who had mild versions of the disease — continue to experience symptoms after their initial recovery.

Older people and people with many serious medical conditions are the most likely to experience lingering COVID-19 symptoms. The most common signs and symptoms that linger over time include:

Fatigue
Cough
Shortness of breath
Headache
Joint pain

Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems

Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.

Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

Blood clots and blood vessel problems

COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.

Other organs affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.

Problems with mood and fatigue

People who have severe symptoms of COVID-19 often have to be treated in a hospital's intensive care unit, with mechanical assistance such as ventilators to breathe. Simply surviving this experience can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.

Because it's difficult to predict long-term outcomes from the new COVID-19 virus, scientists are looking at the long-term effects seen in related viruses, such as severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.
Many long-term COVID-19 effects still unknown

Much is still unknown about how COVID-19 will affect people over time. However, researchers recommend that doctors closely monitor people who have had COVID-19 to see how their organs are functioning after recovery.

It's important to remember that most people who have COVID-19 recover quickly. But the potentially long-lasting problems from COVID-19 make it even more important to reduce the spread of the disease by following precautions such as wearing masks, avoiding crowds and keeping hands clean.

This is a reasonable review of some post-viral sequellae, but be very careful how you interpret it.

1) None of the "long term" effects are UNIQUE to COVID 19, they occur with just about any virus. There is no good data to show they occur more frequently with COVID.

2) Note the "byline" on the original article---"Mayo Clinic Staff". This is not a research article or study, it is just a list some people at Mayo scraped together. Studies are scrutinized by fellow researchers who try to reproduce the results. This is equivalent to an editorial in a newspaper---no fact checking.

3) Cardiac effects---- Unless you have "cardiac imaging" from hundreds of people just before and after COVID infection, the statement has no scientific validity. It is likely true, since many viruses can causes a long term myocarditis, but the sine qua non is endomyocardial biopsy, which I doubt anyone would volunteer for.

4) Pulmonary effects---Any respiratory virus, and even bacterial pneumonitis can result in lung scarring and reduced FEV1 and TLC long term

5) Neurological effects---Any virus and most viral vaccines have a low incidence of Guillian-Barre syndrome (which is easier to write than acute idiopathic demyelinating polyradiculopathy). Alzheimer's and Parkinson's take years to develop and diagnose, so how they can make this statement about a virus that has been around for less than a year is questionable

6) Blood clots---again, just about any infection can lead to a coagulopathy

But where the authors really go astray is with their statement of SARS leading to "chronic fatigue syndrome" There is no consensus in the medical community that CFS even exists, it is NOT a disease, it is a collection of somatic symptoms that usually occurs in patients with severe psychiatric overlay. I would give it no credence.

So there, I just gave a superficial critical overview of the article on Mayo's website. The real unknown here is how often these sequellae occur vs. other viruses, such as Influenza A

[Girlcopper]

First and foremost, social distancing. It is very hard to contract this virus from more than 6 feet away, even without a mask and especially outdoors.

Second, mask in the appropriate setting. Mostly when you cannot guarantee social distancing, and especially indoors when people are getting within 6 feet. But remember, a mask is not a suit of armor against this virus, it offers minimal protection for the wearer. It helps protect other people to a degree if not distanced. Keep in mind, however, to get the virus from another, that person has to be spewing droplets in your vicinity, he has to be positive for COVID, and in the infective stage as well, plus deliver enough of an inoculum to infect you. The odds are low, but if they were zero, there would be no pandemic. There is no need to worship at the altar of the holy mask, wear it to bed or while driving alone, etc.

Third, while there is little evidence of surface to human infection, it can't hurt to wash your hands often and use hand sanitizer. There are plenty of other germs out there that can be avoided in this fashion

Hope that answers your question
The mask does NOT protect the wearer. It protects others from the wearer

[golfing eagles]

Based on Dr. Fauci’s record why would anyone believe him , the CDC, or the other health experts who have proven since this started none of them are sure about anything relating to COVID?

Based on Fauci's record, you should listen to every word he says. Even the country's leading expert cannot know the unknown

[golfing eagles]

The mask does NOT protect the wearer. It protects others from the wearer

Please try READING the post again, based on your response I think you may have missed something:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[matandch]

We’re Doomed! 😳

[Snowprint]

The small percentage of deaths doesn’t mean that getting COVID19 is inconsequential. Chris Christie didn’t die but he was hospitalized and was in the ICU. That IS a life changing experience! There’s also evidence of of lingering symptoms, so called “long haulers.” There’s now proof that reinfection can occur.
There’s so much unknown about COVID19 that just “living your life” like it’s not dangerous is akin to playing Russian roulette. Please wear a mask & practice social distancing for other people even if you don’t care about yourself.
Herd immunity, which is now being advocated by some, is a recipe for disaster that is going to kill millions, not thousands, and overwhelm the health care system.
COVID19 isn’t Republican or Democrat. It doesn’t care who it kills or sickens. It has only one goal...to replicate. America is the world’s leader among developed countries in allowing COVID19 to replicate. That’s not going to change until millions of Americans stop being stupid. It’s not “freedom” to refuse to wear a mask or ignore social distancing. It is, simply, sociopathic.

[jbrown132]

Given your expertise what is your recommendation of what people can sensibly do to protect themselves? I am not being snarky, I am genuinely interested in your opinion.
It’s simple, just go about your life but be sensible. Wash your hands often, use hand sanitizer when you come out of stores and when you cannot distance wear a mask if it makes you feel comfortable. This is a virus. You cannot hid from it any more than you can hide from the common cold or the flu. The only thing you can do is take as many precautions as you can but hiding in your home is not one of them as it has it’s own health risks associated with it.

[billyb1950]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

For God's sake, do want you personally want to, but don't forget to keep your mask on between bites. The 3,300 case count is Florida wide and includes many cases on college campuses, similar to other states.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'd like to see the demographics on these 3030 new cases. The last big bump we had was mostly in the southeast and due to young people going to bars and getting the virus.

Where are these 3030 cases?

What age groups are they in? Are they younger people engaging in more risky behavior or are they older more susceptible people?

I saw an article last week that said in since the schools have reopened, cases of school age children in September have gone down.

In a state with over 21 million people and a large area, 3030 does not seem like a large number and it's important to know how localized this outbreak is. If most of the cases are in Miami, for example, I wouldn't be overly worried. At the rate of 3030 cases per week, it would take 64,000 weeks to infect the entire population of the state?

And as the president has stated, most people (over 95%) will experience mild flu like symptoms.

I'm not taking this lightly. I try to stay six feet away from people and I wear a mask when I go indoors at public places. But numbers get thrown around like they are huge. Every day in the online paper, I see 5 new cases, 12 new cases, 19 new cases etc. like they are huge numbers. They are not. I think that the numbers are low because most people are doing what's necessary to minimize their chance of becoming infected.

Another question that I have is about false positives. I have a friend who along with his wife both tested positive. After two days and two more tests 24 hours apart they were determined to be negative and that the initial results were a false positive. My questions are, how many of these false positives are there and are they counted in the 3030 reported cases?

[Bill1701]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

This is not the second wave. It is still the first. The virus is not going away anytime soon. An effective vaccine won't be available for the masses until at least next year and there is no guarantee that 50% will take it.

[jbrown132]

Over 200,000 Americans dead from the virus, multiple documented infections from events where social distancing is not practiced, and soaring infection rates in multiple heatlh care systems in multiple states.

Why is it that Spain, Italy, and England who had the toughest lock down rules I Europe have as of a percentage of population higher infectious and death rates than the US and their economies are in significantly more trouble than ours?

[JoelJohnson]

Thursday’s Coronavirus Updates: 3,356 new cases, 141 new deaths reported in Florida.
WINK NEWS

Here is the web site:

Experience (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/d2726d6c01c4486181fec2d4373b01fa)

[Mardarlowe]

Ole Dr Fugi. What a nut.

[Leadbone1]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

Ridiculous! It’s about hospitalizations and deaths not about the number of cases which is also dropping drastically. Don’t know where you’re getting your information? But by all means stay in your house!

[doyle31]

The number of cases is meaningless.

In Sumter county, population of 135,000, a total of 77 people have died from the virus. That works out to .o5% of the population. Not exactly the end of the world kind of number.

This is not a virus like Ebloa. Get out and enjoy life!
Look up ‘long-haulers’. It’s not just death I worry about.

[Snowprint]

Why is it that Spain, Italy, and England who had the toughest lock down rules I Europe have as of a percentage of population higher infectious and death rates than the US and their economies are in significantly more trouble than ours?
Spain has a higher death rate. The US has a higher infection rate than Spain , Italy. & the U.K. The US has a higher death rate than Italy & the U. K.

[Dana1963]

I'd like to see the demographics on these 3030 new cases. The last big bump we had was mostly in the southeast and due to young people going to bars and getting the virus.

Where are these 3030 cases?

What age groups are they in? Are they younger people engaging in more risky behavior or are they older more susceptible people?

I saw an article last week that said in since the schools have reopened, cases of school age children in September have gone down.

In a state with over 21 million people and a large area, 3030 does not seem like a large number and it's important to know how localized this outbreak is. If most of the cases are in Miami, for example, I wouldn't be overly worried. At the rate of 3030 cases per week, it would take 64,000 weeks to infect the entire population of the state?

And as the president has stated, most people (over 95%) will experience mild flu like symptoms.

I'm not taking this lightly. I try to stay six feet away from people and I wear a mask when I go indoors at public places. But numbers get thrown around like they are huge. Every day in the online paper, I see 5 new cases, 12 new cases, 19 new cases etc. like they are huge numbers. They are not. I think that the numbers are low because most people are doing what's necessary to minimize their chance of becoming infected.

Another question that I have is about false positives. I have a friend who along with his wife both tested positive. After two days and two more tests 24 hours apart they were determined to be negative and that the initial results were a false positive. My questions are, how many of these false positives are there and are they counted in the 3030 reported cases?
That same person who says 95% also said in under control months ago as most states are increasing. South Dakota who had minor outbreaks in the beginning is now complaining about too much testing while there hospitals are almost at 100% capacity.

[Cheiro]

The number of cases is meaningless.

In Sumter county, population of 135,000, a total of 77 people have died from the virus. That works out to .o5% of the population. Not exactly the end of the world kind of number.

This is not a virus like Ebloa. Get out and enjoy life!

It is if you are one of those .05%.

[Singerlady]

The number of cases is meaningless.

In Sumter county, population of 135,000, a total of 77 people have died from the virus. That works out to .o5% of the population. Not exactly the end of the world kind of number.

This is not a virus like Ebloa. Get out and enjoy life!

Perhaps true. Just don’t want to be on the other end of your stat. Not ready for being 6 feet under, yet.

[Ndomines]

Since the dawn of time there is one and only one cure for any virus, exposure. Be it from a vaccine or the the virus itself.

Thus be prepared to 'hunker down' for years. Or accept risks in your life as you have and continue to accept for the remainder of your life for virtually every activity in life.

And I will accept risks and enjoy life by not hunkering down.
Then wear a mask. It’s meant not to protect you but others from your spray.

[Green-Eyed Lady]

New COVID testing is "self-testing". A friend experienced mild symptoms (body aches and unusual tiredness) this week, reserved an appt at CVS on 466 for testing, after signing up online. The person spoke to a nurse (?) thru the drive up window, answered a few pertinent questions and was given a brown paper bag thru the moveable bin. Inside the bag were 2 plastic zip lock bags. One contained the dreaded nose swab and a capped test tube. The other bag contained a wet sani wipe. The nurse explained to my friend how to swab her nose, press the swab toward the ear on both sides, break off the swab and place it in the bit of liquid inside the test tube and seal it in. Using the sani wipe, my friend then wiped the baggie containing the test tube, rolled up the bag (also containing her name, DOB, address and contact phone number) and placed it in the bin. The nurse explained that she would receive her results in 2 to 5 days by email. Easy peasy, and no hurtful swabbing up to the brain. Hope my friend is negative...she had mild symptoms, but did the right thing! She says she is self-isolating until the results are in. She is healthy, not overweight, and with no underlying conditions.

[merrymini]

Sorry for your loss - but at least they were not killed because someone would not wear a mask or social distance

What difference would that make?

[meridian5850]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

I'll keep posting this until more folks understand that while potentially more serious to older people, this virus isn't even as contagious as the H1N1 from 2009.

This data is a week old now:

I continue be amazed at how many folks seem to think everyone they encounter has the virus, when in fact, several days ago Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO Health Emergencies Program Director, said their best guess is that 10% of the world's population has been infected, or about 750 million people. WHO's data says that about 1 million people have died from it. Disregarding whether they died "from" it or "with" it, doing the basic math:

1,000,000 ÷ 750,000,000 = .0013
.0013 x 100 = 0.13% death rate of those infected

OR 99.87% of everyone who gets it survive.

Covid-19: World in ‘for a hell of a ride’ in coming months, Dr Mike Ryan says (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?fbclid=IwAR19_KH6Q7gkLnCFlBglologLJSmHNo 0_hTIFw59NyFrgwD6xkiX8umEr1s)

There have been 7.7 million cases in the USA, well below the 10% figure above. The 2009 H1N1 flu infected over 60,000,000 people. Which one was more contagious? The average death rate for the seasonal flu is 0.1% vs. 0.13% for Covid-19. No one batted an eye back then thinking they might get the flu and so many ITT in a panic for this.

Also, 40% of the deaths in the USA are from nursing homes because the governors of 4 or 5 states thought it was smart to put covid patients into them.

[Joanne19335]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

I have been hunkering down since this began. Except for playing golf and being an Ambassador, I stay home and away from crowds. My neighbors do likewise. Thank you for posting one of the more sensible comments I have read on this site in quite awhile.

[nick demis]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

Is there a lot more cases or is it a result of how many more tests are being done?
Here at home, they just announced that many restaurants in Gloucester are closing because the TOTAL number of active cases in the town has reached 53. Not 530 or 5300, 53, of which none are in the hospital.

[meridian5850]

Sorry for your loss - but at least they were not killed because someone would not wear a mask or social distance

No, they just got killed by someone who was driving drunk, or texting, or inattention. How is one different from another? :rolleyes:

[toeser]

Since the dawn of time there is one and only one cure for any virus, exposure. Be it from a vaccine or the the virus itself.

Thus be prepared to 'hunker down' for years. Or accept risks in your life as you have and continue to accept for the remainder of your life for virtually every activity in life.

And I will accept risks and enjoy life by not hunkering down.

You are entitled to your opinion and your lifestyle, but I believe it to be a foolish one for one big reason. We are likely to have one of more vaccines within 3-4 months and there are extremely promising treatments in the works as well. It seems to me the risk/reward ratio favors those who continue to take caution.

[La lamy]

I am getting pretty sick of the pandemic fear porn. It obviously is being driven by a political agenda. Are these fear mongers just as concerned by the deaths due to the lockdown such as suicides, overdoses and missed medical procedures? Of course not. It doesn't fit the narrative. Crushing the economy always has deadly ramifications. Of course it doesn't help when you force nursing homes to take in contagious patients from hospitals. Funny how those deaths are never talked about.

And notice the least restrictive policy response in Europe was in Sweden, which has among the lowest death rates today.
Not true. Check these Oct 16th 2020 stats in this link • COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/)

Sweden has 580.37 deaths per million
US has 662.88 deaths per million
Happy to say Canada is very low at 263.26 deaths per million.

Sweden are now rethinking herd immunity and adding Covid restrictions.

[jbrown132]

Spain has a higher death rate. The US has a higher infection rate than Spain , Italy. & the U.K. The US has a higher death rate than Italy & the U. K.

Not as a percentage of population.

[PersonalChoice]

Thank you. I challenge the OP to produce just ONE original research article of a multi-centered university double blinded, placebo controlled study of at least 2000 people in a LEGITIMATE MEDICAL JOURNAL (NEJM, JAMA, Lancet) that shows the impact of Vit D3 and C as claimed. Articles from the North Dakota journal of holistic therapy and vitamin sales techniques or a pharmacy doctoral thesis study of 22 fellow students DO NOT COUNT!!!

Who would spend millions of dollars to prove that inexpensive supplements can boost the immune system and possibly prevent disease? The pharmaceutical companies won't fund these trials.

[meridian5850]

The mask does NOT protect the wearer. It protects others from the wearer

You realize that the distance between the fibers in the vast majority of masks being worn compared to the size of this virus is akin to a chain link fence and a fly, right?

[La lamy]

[/SIZE][/U][/U]
Not true. Check these Oct 16th 2020 stats in this link • COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/)

Sweden has 580.37 deaths per million
US has 662.88 deaths per million
Happy to say Canada is very low at 263.26 deaths per million.

Sweden are now rethinking herd immunity and adding Covid restrictions.

Also wanted to add that Sweden probably has many more deaths per capita than reported because they chose to not test or treat people over a certain body mass or 80 years of age when their medical system was overwhelmed. This is a fantastic article from science mag about Sweden's herd immunity experiment. ‘It’s been so, so surreal.’ Critics of Sweden’s lax pandemic policies face fierce backlash | Science | AAAS (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash)

[wilkinson]

Seems like the scientists were right about wearing mask to prevent this from spreading. What adjective best describes people who don't wear masks? Are they the same ones who don't stop at stop signs?

[meridian5850]

The small percentage of deaths doesn’t mean that getting COVID19 is inconsequential. Chris Christie didn’t die but he was hospitalized and was in the ICU. That IS a life changing experience! There’s also evidence of of lingering symptoms, so called “long haulers.” There’s now proof that reinfection can occur.
There’s so much unknown about COVID19 that just “living your life” like it’s not dangerous is akin to playing Russian roulette. Please wear a mask & practice social distancing for other people even if you don’t care about yourself.
Herd immunity, which is now being advocated by some, is a recipe for disaster that is going to kill millions, not thousands, and overwhelm the health care system.
COVID19 isn’t Republican or Democrat. It doesn’t care who it kills or sickens. It has only one goal...to replicate. America is the world’s leader among developed countries in allowing COVID19 to replicate. That’s not going to change until millions of Americans stop being stupid. It’s not “freedom” to refuse to wear a mask or ignore social distancing. It is, simply, sociopathic.

I don't know about that since it seems to avoid "peaceful" protestors. :rolleyes:

[ScottS]

So basically all other viruses and disease no longer exist. You just listed symptoms for every other virus and disease out there but called it Covid. All least that’s not fear mongering....oh wait, that’s exactly what it is. People keep listing numbers of Covid but fail to realize these numbers include a multitude of other viruses and diseases, that they are just putting under the Covid umbrella. Get out and live life sheesh.

[sallybowron]

Not the end of the world for most, but for those who get it it is the end of the world. Most people I meet are going to continue going out because "they won't get it" that's what the dead people thought alos.

[davem4616]

Also wanted to add that Sweden probably has many more deaths per capita than reported because they chose to not test or treat people over a certain body mass or 80 years of age when their medical system was overwhelmed. This is a fantastic article from science mag about Sweden's herd immunity experiment. ‘It’s been so, so surreal.’ Critics of Sweden’s lax pandemic policies face fierce backlash | Science | AAAS (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash)



until EVERY nation counts the # of covid-19 cases and deaths the exact same way, (and honestly reports their information) comparing the USA's data to any other country is extremely suspect (and for that matter there is no guarantee that every state, county within the US is using the exact same approach)

this pandemic is far from over

it's not that difficult to figure out what to do

like the Nike commercial said, 'just do it'

[CFrance]

A lot of people wearing mask religiously are getting Covid. What exactly do we do? Most get over it just fine and some don’t. I will not hibernate inside! I will take precautions but I’m living life. I will not be driving a vehicle alone n wear a mask. If I’m outside keeping a distance, I will live life like always. If someone is sneezing away like crazy or coughing their heads off then I will politely get away from them. If your sick stay away from people. Flu n cold season is around the corner, this will get interesting. Science and doctors told us all kinds of things: When warm summer comes this was going away. Nobody remembers half of what they told us because they flip-flop on everything. I can’t keep up with all the experts, and the differing opinions. If some mask don’t work then why are they so popular everywhere? In spite of everything life is good! If we shut the television off, life gets better The news 24/7 is driving some absolutely crazy! Don’t believe the ... (nonsense).
The mask is to protect others, not themselves. My neighbor stated some study he heard that 75% of the people getting covid wore masks. I said that's because they got it from the people who WERE NOT wearing masks.

For every study, there seems to be another study pointing to the opposite. I go with the first one I read that put the infection rate much lower if everyone wore masks when not social distancing.

I applaud Publix and Fresh Market for their mask requirements.

[oldtimes]

Who would spend millions of dollars to prove that inexpensive supplements can boost the immune system and possibly prevent disease? The pharmaceutical companies won't fund these trials.

The supplement manufacturers? It is a billion dollar industry.

[New Englander]

Based on Fauci's record, you should listen to every word he says. Even the country's leading expert cannot know the unknown

This is so true. This demon of a virus is totally new and even the most knowledgeable of the words scientist's are still learning new things about it.

[kendi]

Tell that to the person who's spouse was one of the .05%

There are many many ways to die. And we all will one day. We can choose to fear them all or choose to live life until that day finally arrives.

[Joe C.]

Cases are increasing again. Is it because of the second wave? Or is it just because more and more people are getting tested? My own thoughts are probably a combination of more people getting back to work and school and obviously getting exposed, and more test results. But for some people it is fatal; the percentages are very very almost extremely low.
I do wash my hands often (but always did), and wear a mask in any store that requires it, but other than that, I don't wear one. I also stay away from large indoor crowds. Other than that, I figure that if I get it, then I get it. Will I die from it? I hardly think so. But then again, I'm going to die from something, someday.

[Andyb]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.


If the doctors and hospitals treat it, there would be far fewer deaths. There are only giving Tylenol, vita Miya day O2 when needed. An antibiotic, steroids, and Remdisivir are needed at the get go.

[graciegirl]

Cases are increasing again. Is it because of the second wave? Or is it just because more and more people are getting tested? My own thoughts are probably a combination of more people getting back to work and school and obviously getting exposed, and more test results. But for some people it is fatal; the percentages are very very almost extremely low.
I do wash my hands often (but always did), and wear a mask in any store that requires it, but other than that, I don't wear one. I also stay away from large indoor crowds. Other than that, I figure that if I get it, then I get it. Will I die from it? I hardly think so. But then again, I'm going to die from something, someday.

Your summary echo's many thoughts of many people. Couple that with the pause of testing on vaccines. I had been hanging on to the hope for a vaccine that would at least diminish some of the risk of Covid-19 by November or December, but last night's National News seems to push that hope back a couple of months.

What I miss the most is painting in the art room at Laurel Manor regional rec center. About now snowbirds would begin joining our group again. The group has some amazingly gifted artists and watching what appears on their canvases is a joy all it's own.

The art class is there and I am sure people are there too. I try to remember that these are choices and I prefer to not risk groups just yet.

[ts12755]

Going away??? What planet do you live on? This is a highly contagious man-made deadly virus. Get used to living with it. Everyone will get it. 99.5% of people will survive. Those obese or already sick will die. Man cannot change that, not even with a vaccine.

[Manhoopty]

What do you tell the person who’s spouse died of suicide, depression, or any of the many consequences of “hunkering down”z?

[Art Gariepy]

My goodness a person I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH! Thanks for taking the time to inject some sense into all this!

[sooziesoul]

Not to be rude but none of us live forever. It just seems like forever when you aren’t enjoying life.

[Donvan]

Amend

[cherylncliff]

Given your expertise what is your recommendation of what people can sensibly do to protect themselves? I am not being snarky, I am genuinely interested in your opinion.

WEAR A MASK when indoors in public places
Wear a mask when in a large outdoor crowded areas
Avoid crowds
Stay AT LEAST 6 ft from non-family members
Wash your hands
Get a flu shot

Until there is an effective vaccine and/or effective therapies you need to be cautious and careful. Herd immunity will not work in the face of a pandemic of this lethality.

[Jokomo]

What do you tell the person who's spouse died in an automobile accident?

Well, if the spouse was killed by a drunk driver, I would express sympathy for the loss and rage at the selfish person who thought his need for pleasure was more important than his need to regulate his behavior and ended up killing someone.

[graciegirl]

What do you tell the person who’s spouse died of suicide, depression, or any of the many consequences of “hunkering down”z?


That doesn't seem to be a reasonable argument. You may THINK you know that people who are avoiding contact with the virus are depressed, but the people in The Villages, most of us have faced far worse this staying in.

I wish you could have seen the thousands and thousands of cancer survivors that we used to gather at The High School. So many people have suffered the loss of their loved spouse here and manage to continue somehow.

AND........Hunkering down is not difficult at all when the beautiful sunshine is all around and a safe cart ride is sitting in the garage. When we have Facebook and TOTV to interact with others.

I have seen far worse than living right now in this beautiful place.

[Marshaw]

On any given day there are conflicting reports as to mask, no mask. Stay home, go out, herd mentality. My take is very simple. Never in the history of communicate disease have we quareentied the well. So dig down and muster up your last ounce of common sense and enjoy life to it's fullest. If your sickly stay home. If you well go do things that make sense. Driving a car with a mask doesn't make sense. Walking a dog at 6am with a mask and gloves is insane. Ordering food from a grocery store to be picked up makes sense. C'mon people

[jimjamuser]

Absolutely agree with this factual thread starter. Michael Osterholm, a leading epidemiologist, says that the US has around 50,000 cases per day currently. But, before the end of the year there will be 100,000 per day. You can Google him easily. He also doubts that a vaccine would be available to the average person before the middle of 2021. And since NOT all Americans will take the vaccine and our borders can not be closed, that the CV will be with us FOREVER. But, hopefully in only small numbers of infections in the future. He and other scientists have also said that countries such as Australia, New Zealand, and (I believe) Japan are able to limit the CV to acceptable numbers because they are islands. So, they can better control and quarantine people as they arrive. He predicted 2 months ago that the rapid Abbott test as used by the White House was like the Secret Service using water pistols against assassins. He said that the US is like a train racing toward a wreck!

[jimjamuser]

Since the dawn of time there is one and only one cure for any virus, exposure. Be it from a vaccine or the the virus itself.

Thus be prepared to 'hunker down' for years. Or accept risks in your life as you have and continue to accept for the remainder of your life for virtually every activity in life.

And I will accept risks and enjoy life by not hunkering down.
I respect that opinion and course of action. But then, how do you explain to yourself the fact that the people in Australia, New Zealand and Japan all lead normal lives and have effectively overcome CV? They do NOT have an "either-or" life decision as we do. They closed down tightly and then contact traced diligently and it worked! They embraced science and took it seriously and told the truth to their population.

[jammendolia]

Given your expertise what is your recommendation of what people can sensibly do to protect themselves? I am not being snarky, I am genuinely interested in your opinion.
Doctor say if you wear a mask, don’t touch your face and wash your hands frequently you’ll be safe. I know that the virus can also go in through your eyes, so to be really safe, wear a mask and a shield

[graciegirl]

I respect that opinion and course of action. But then, how do you explain to yourself the fact that the people in Australia, New Zealand and Japan all lead normal lives and have effectively overcome CV? They do NOT have an "either-or" life decision as we do. They closed down tightly and then contract traced diligently and it worked! They embraced science and took it seriously and told the truth to their population.

total population australia - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=total+population+australia&cvid=c4b0d2bfed64451db140b1429d36e16e&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

[oldtimes]

I respect that opinion and course of action. But then, how do you explain to yourself the fact that the people in Australia, New Zealand and Japan all lead normal lives and have effectively overcome CV? They do NOT have an "either-or" life decision as we do. They closed down tightly and then contract traced diligently and it worked! They embraced science and took it seriously and told the truth to their population.

Australia and New Zealand are a small fraction of our population and Japan is an entirely different culture. They have been wearing masks for decades before this started and still are. Americans have a you can’t tell me what to do attitude.

[golfing eagles]

Not the end of the world for most, but for those who get it it is the end of the world. Most people I meet are going to continue going out because "they won't get it" that's what the dead people thought alos.

For most, driving to Orlando is not "the end of the world" But for some........

[jimjamuser]

The number of cases is meaningless.

In Sumter county, population of 135,000, a total of 77 people have died from the virus. That works out to .o5% of the population. Not exactly the end of the world kind of number.

This is not a virus like Ebloa. Get out and enjoy life!
As a great philosopher once said, "its NOT over till its over. If I were a predicting person, I would predict that TV Land gets hit with a CV spike in about Dec 1st because of the snow birds returning and the problems. There WERE only 2 CV deaths in one day recently in Fl. But the day before was 14. The cases in Fl have leveled off at around 3,000 per day. Deaths may be down because of better treatment and experience with the disease (such as keeping patients face down)? Or it could be possible undercounting? Either way, the CV experience can be short of death, but VERY torturous. And you CAN be reinfected and they are finding a good possibility of serious mental and physical long term problems. 30 % of recovering CV victims report long-term MENTAL FOG that prevents them form returning to work and a normal life. So, the big picture on CV is bigger than just a small number of deaths (for now). When you calculate YOUR risk of problems from CV, take ALL factors into consideration. Do not be just a sheep that moves with the HERD of optimism that is being circulated here in La, La TV Land.

[graciegirl]

For most, driving to Orlando is not "the end of the world" But for some........

????

I think we can surmise that your opinion is that overall we Villagers are being too cautious about Covid-19?

Sally is facing a new challenge from an old enemy and is very wise to avoid any new threats to her health. That is because I know her. None of us wants to be considered weak or not brave. However, the decisions that people make here are often based on logic and their own circumstances, just as yours are Doc. Sir.

[NavyVet]

Seems to me we are still in the midst of the first wave. I have not felt safe going anywhere since early March when we were just realizing the pandemic was upon us. Mask and gloves are the norm wherever I go and restaurant dining, large gatherings, etc. are out of the question for me for the foreseeable future.

Same here. At minimum a second wave will come and I'll bet it will be at least another full year before the virus runs it course. I continue to stay as safe as possible. The upside is I also have NOT had a head cold, flu, strep throat, bronchitis, stomach virus, URI, tonsillitis, or pneumonia since before this whole pandemic started. LOL
The key is staying away from people in public places and following protocols. Masks may be an inconvenience but I sure don't want to end up on a ventilator!

[golfing eagles]

????

I think we can surmise that your opinion is that overall we Villagers are being too cautious about Covid-19?

Sally is facing a new challenge from an old enemy and is very wise to avoid any new threats to her health. That is because I know her. None of us wants to be considered weak or not brave. However, the decisions that people make here are often based on logic and their own circumstances, just as yours are Doc. Sir.

Not at all. Overall, I would have kept the restaurants to 50% capacity, kept the squares closed and be very careful about what Rec center activities I would allow. There are some people who are going to be reckless no matter what, and others that are gripped with irrational fear--those are the extremes that I tend to address, the other 95% of us are generally being sensible, so I don't comment on them.

[jimjamuser]

A lot of people wearing mask religiously are getting Covid. What exactly do we do? Most get over it just fine and some don’t. I will not hibernate inside! I will take precautions but I’m living life. I will not be driving a vehicle alone n wear a mask. If I’m outside keeping a distance, I will live life like always. If someone is sneezing away like crazy or coughing their heads off then I will politely get away from them. If your sick stay away from people. Flu n cold season is around the corner, this will get interesting. Science and doctors told us all kinds of things: When warm summer comes this was going away. Nobody remembers half of what they told us because they flip-flop on everything. I can’t keep up with all the experts, and the differing opinions. If some mask don’t work then why are they so popular everywhere? In spite of everything life is good! If we shut the television off, life gets better The news 24/7 is driving some absolutely crazy! Don’t believe the ... (nonsense).
Wrong! Science did NOT, definitly NOT say that CV was going away in the summer. Some NON -SCIENCE (sounds like nonsense which it was) people said that. It is a little harder to find out the truth about any subject than it was before social media - but it is STILL possible. One must be open-minded and a better detective than before to hunt down the truth. I understand that it IS DIFFICULT. There is both Russian and domestic propaganda to wade through. There are minefields and "mind fields" to avoid. Watch out for obvious traps such as conspiracy theories and Qanon. Good luck!

[crydzanich]

Off topic with that comment. Yeah, sorry people are losing spouses but we are discussing percentages of people ill in TV

Today’s report from the health dept shows 7 more in the villages since yesterday. Total 747 in Villages. The numbers go up everyday.Ok, they all don’t die but most are left with lingering problems. I know a young woman in her mid forties in excellent health, works out, eats right, and takes good care of herself with no underlying condition . She contracted COVID in March at work before we really knew what it was. She was hospitalized for two weeks and sent home. It is now mid Oct and she is still having problems, difficulty breathing, balance is affected, joint pain and fatigue. She was always such an upbeat person, always full of positivity, now she is a shell of her previous self. Has to go to physical therapy, breathing therapy and Doctor appointment after Doctor appointment. She is depressed and sees no end to her suffering. My heart breaks for her.

[jimjamuser]

The small percentage of deaths doesn’t mean that getting COVID19 is inconsequential. Chris Christie didn’t die but he was hospitalized and was in the ICU. That IS a life changing experience! There’s also evidence of of lingering symptoms, so called “long haulers.” There’s now proof that reinfection can occur.
There’s so much unknown about COVID19 that just “living your life” like it’s not dangerous is akin to playing Russian roulette. Please wear a mask & practice social distancing for other people even if you don’t care about yourself.
Herd immunity, which is now being advocated by some, is a recipe for disaster that is going to kill millions, not thousands, and overwhelm the health care system.
COVID19 isn’t Republican or Democrat. It doesn’t care who it kills or sickens. It has only one goal...to replicate. America is the world’s leader among developed countries in allowing COVID19 to replicate. That’s not going to change until millions of Americans stop being stupid. It’s not “freedom” to refuse to wear a mask or ignore social distancing. It is, simply, sociopathic.
That is one of the greatest post that I have ever read here! Kudos. It was very strong on current events AND Science. And it had brevity, while still PACKING in the information - something I never seem to be able to do - I am jealous.

[Byte1]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

Oh well, you do what you gotta do. Personally, I am going to live my life and not worry about it. I have found that worrying does absolutely nothing. If I make a mistake and make the wrong decision, that is my problem not someone else's. I do not plan to "hunker down" at all. As a matter of fact, on Tue I took a nice ride and went to a restaurant where I saw absolutely no one wearing a mask and it was at full capacity. Not even the service folks wore masks. Like I said, I plan to live my life.
I wonder how many folks will die from worrying about this virus. Most likely they will deem it Covid related deaths.
I'll make a prediction. I will live my life and not die from the virus. If I am wrong and I do succumb to the virus and die, no one will know it on here, so it really doesn't matter. :icon_wink:

[Byte1]

Thursday’s Coronavirus Updates: 3,356 new cases, 141 new deaths reported in Florida.
WINK NEWS

And the Villages keeps on trucking with hardly a death.
Consider this; how many more deaths this year than any other year in the Villages?

[Dana1963]

total population australia - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=total+population+australia&cvid=c4b0d2bfed64451db140b1429d36e16e&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)
Florida Population 2020 (Demographics, Maps, Graphs) (https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/florida-population)
Similar to Florida

[Dana1963]

Australia and New Zealand are a small fraction of our population and Japan is an entirely different culture. They have been wearing masks for decades before this started and still are. Americans have a you can’t tell me what to do attitude.
Australia population 25,000,000 Florida 21,000,000, New Zealand 8,000,000

[CFrance]

WEAR A MASK when indoors in public places
Wear a mask when in a large outdoor crowded areas
Avoid crowds
Stay AT LEAST 6 ft from non-family members
Wash your hands
Get a flu shot

Until there is an effective vaccine and/or effective therapies you need to be cautious and careful. Herd immunity will not work in the face of a pandemic of this lethality.
A sensible way to enjoy life while protecting yourself and others.:ho:

[CFrance]

Australia population 25,000,000 Florida 21,000,000, New Zealand 8,000,000
The case rate per million (or hundred thousand, or whatever) is more relevant than the population of a country.

[oldtimes]

Australia population 25,000,000 Florida 21,000,000, New Zealand 8,000,000

Yes but Australia has a much larger land mass (roughly the size of the entire US) so the 25 million are already social distanced far more than Florida. It is very difficult to compare countries since they have different land mass, population and culture which is a big issue. Many populations are far more compliant than Americans, some because of the penalties for non compliance.

[riamd1954]

If you believe tags bull**** I’ll sell you a bridge !!

[donassaid]

No different than if they died of heart disease, diabetes, stroke or accidenr.

[CFrance]

Yes but Australia has a much larger land mass (roughly the size of the entire US) so the 25 million are already social distanced far more than Florida. It is very difficult to compare countries since they have different land mass, population and culture which is a big issue. Many populations are far more compliant than Americans, some because of the penalties for non compliance.
Australia's population is centered around its coastal cities because that is where the infrastructure was built. The interior is not highly populated. 80% of the population is on the coast and its many cities. Have you ever been there? I can guarantee you there is little spread-out or distanced inside of Sydney, Melbourne, Darwin, Brisbane, Townsend, Hobart--the places I have been to. I have not been to Perth but am told it is also densely populated. I have friends in Adelaide that say the same.

[oldtimes]

Australia's population is centered around its coastal cities because that is where the infrastructure was built. The interior is not highly populated. 80% of the population is on the coast and its many cities. Have you ever been there? I can guarantee you there is little spread-out or distanced inside of Sydney, Melbourne, Darwin, Brisbane, Townsend, Hobart--the places I have been to. I have not been to Perth but am told it is also densely populated. I have friends in Adelaide that say the same.

The same is true of most places, including Florida. The greatest density of population in Florida is in 5 counties. My point is that it is very difficult to make comparisons of places with such differences in land mass, population and mostly culture. Though the government may be partly to blame I think the attitude of most Americans is the real issue.

[ggdawg]

Since the dawn of time there is one and only one cure for any virus, exposure. Be it from a vaccine or the the virus itself.

Thus be prepared to 'hunker down' for years. Or accept risks in your life as you have and continue to accept for the remainder of your life for virtually every activity in life.

And I will accept risks and enjoy life by not hunkering down.

I agree... however, as a person helping to care for an adult child with three chronic diseases and a low immune system, it's hard to make that decision to go out and be at risk and not hunker down. I guess I'm one of those that have to be in the anti-risk category. Thanks for your input.

[chet2020]

Florida Dept. of Health:

3,330 new cases
2 deaths

Johns Hopkins says 141 COVID-19 Florida deaths reported yesterday. The seven-day-rolling death rate has been fairly flat at around 100 COVID-19 deaths/day since early September. During the same time period, current hospitalizations has been flat at around 2,100 (total in hospital being treated), seven-day-rolling cases flat at approx 3,000 cases/day. Things seem to be neither improving or getting worse.

[bpascani]

Is this figure for just Thursday, or for the past 7 (or whatever) days, please

[Pettys1]

Who's to say they would've died from something else. So in that case don't get behind the wheel if a car, don't walk across a street, don't breathe... People you've got to be kidding me..

[Joe C.]

]Australia and New Zealand are a small fraction of our population and Japan is an entirely different culture. They have been wearing masks for decades before this started and still are. Americans have a you can’t tell me what to do attitude.[/QUOTE]

Japan is certainly a different culture.....a culture of obedience. If the Japanese authorities ordered all their citizens to cover their ass with their left hand when walking out in public, that's exactly what you would see. They are a closed society and don't have the freedoms that we have. :bigbow:

[graciegirl]

Are you for real????? The results of protesting lately has been riots and looting. How is that "for the good of all". I suggest you make an apology to all the other loons who are left of Karl Marx, since you sucked up all their Kool-aid as well. If you get offended, make it quick, since I don't expect this post to last long:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Well said, Doctor.

[biker1]

As per the Florida Covid-19 dashboard, the average number of deaths per day for the last 30 days is probably around 45. It is a bit hard to get an exact number since the deaths associated with each day appear to take some time to be reported so the exact number for each day can change for several weeks. For example, 2 deaths were reported yesterday (10/15). That number is likely to increase in the near future.

Johns Hopkins says 141 COVID-19 Florida deaths reported yesterday. The seven-day-rolling death rate has been fairly flat at around 100 COVID-19 deaths/day since early September. During the same time period, current hospitalizations has been flat at around 2,100 (total in hospital being treated), seven-day-rolling cases flat at approx 3,000 cases/day. Things seem to be neither improving or getting worse.

[bluedivergirl]

Are you for real????? The results of protesting lately has been riots and looting. How is that "for the good of all". I suggest you make an apology to all the other loons who are left of Karl Marx, since you sucked up all their Kool-aid as well. If you get offended, make it quick, since I don't expect this post to last long:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

:bigbow:

[Karenlebrun]

Stay away from crowds, wear a mask, wash hands, social distance, use hand sanitizer.

[jimjamuser]

Today’s report from the health dept shows 7 more in the villages since yesterday. Total 747 in Villages. The numbers go up everyday.Ok, they all don’t die but most are left with lingering problems. I know a young woman in her mid forties in excellent health, works out, eats right, and takes good care of herself with no underlying condition . She contracted COVID in March at work before we really knew what it was. She was hospitalized for two weeks and sent home. It is now mid Oct and she is still having problems, difficulty breathing, balance is affected, joint pain and fatigue. She was always such an upbeat person, always full of positivity, now she is a shell of her previous self. Has to go to physical therapy, breathing therapy and Doctor appointment after Doctor appointment. She is depressed and sees no end to her suffering. My heart breaks for her.
Good post for people to be aware of.

[jimjamuser]

I just want to thank all of you that plan to "hunker down" at home for the next year, or whenever they deem the "beer virus" over. It's so nice to be out and about with less traffic and less wait for a seat in a restaurant. The fresh air has been very invigorating. In case you get bored being shut in, I have found many, many pandemic and virus related movies playing on Netflix and Amazon Prime, as well as several FREE streaming sites...to entertain you. Hey, I have an idea. Why doesn't someone start a blog related to movies everyone is watching pertaining to pandemics and virus's? That should be fun. :1rotfl: :a040:
I will go for the bait! On Prime I enjoyed "The Boys", "Utopia", "Defiance" and "The Vikings" season 1 - 4 which I missed many years ago. Plus misc Chinese made movies (the newer ones will surprise you how good they are). Plus some Sci/Fi movies. Who needs the real world with all that entertainment? I will come back to the real world when you-all make it right. Satisfied now?

[Snowprint]

[QUOTE=Byte1;1848315]I am not obligated to "protect" anyone. I am not getting paid to be a "protector, security guard, fire fighter, police officer" therefore if you fear someone that lawfully conducts themselves in such a manner not conducive to your preferences or implied needs or safety standards, then it is up to you to protect yourself. Therefore, if you see me without a mask, eye protection, gloves or hand sanitizer, you would be prudent to avoid any contact and stay out of the vicinity where any infection might occur. There is no law that stipulates that I must conform to anyone's standard of protection. If you observe me wearing a mask, you may assume that I am doing it for your protection, but in reality I will be doing it solely for my spouse's protection. In my opinion, it is your obligation to protect yourself, not mine to protect you. For some reason many on here seem to believe that we all care what happens to you and that we are here solely to perform or conduct ourselves to your whims. Sorry but hysterical guilt trips probably don't effect at least half of the population. I will stop and assist you if your car is broke down on the side of the road, but if you insist or complain that I do not have a mask on, I will turn and leave you stranded.
Stay "hunkered down" at home and you will have no complaint about what others are doing. Some of us take life threatening chances every day.
Everyone has their own idea of how far they will go to protect themselves against life ending circumstances. As I get older, my limit bar tends to rise higher almost on a daily basis. My bucket list is still active with plenty of items not yet crossed off, so I am not going to let a little bug scare me into hiding at home. And yes, I have had a couple of relatives die supposedly of COVID, but that does not put me in a panic.
So do what you gotta do, but don't presume to demand others change their lifestyles to suit you.[

Not scared of “a little bug” & saying people “supposedly” died of COVID19?
Really!
There’s no point in even trying to point out the flawed thinking here. It wouldn’t matter anyway. It’s pretty clear you aren’t interested in listening to anyone you don’t see in the mirror. I just hope you’re very old and just set in your ways. The adage that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks is appropriate. If I’m wrong about your age, then it’s even worse.

[Topspinmo]

I'm still grossed out by the word "spewing".
I'm going to have nightmares tonight.

Why you’re breathing in microscopic spews all the time, even as you type.

[Topspinmo]

Stay away from crowds, wear a mask, wash hands, social distance, use hand sanitizer.

But, but, I got tickets every night for the squares?

[Dayeight99]

You have been bamboozled! The seasonal flu is just as serious. What about heart disease, cancer, etc. You can’t get outta this life alive. Enjoy it while you’re here. Chill! Turn off CNN and go for a hike, without your mask. Fresh air cures a lot of ailments. The people wearing masks touch their faces to adjust their masks 100 times more than without a mask. I thought we weren’t suppose to touch our faces? Unbelievable.

[regas56]

I do what I can as I go about my life. My days are numbered; just don't know how many. I will die of something and it may be this virus. Hopefully I'll be able to say goodbye to my loved ones, unlike those who perish in car wrecks or are stricken with heart attacks and strokes, and run through the Golden Gate to loved ones who went before. Recent emergency open heart surgery at barely 60, no warnings, no smoking, drinking or drug use 6'1" 188 lbs and very active work lifestyle.. Scared the crap outta me and hurt like hell for months afterward.. A few months later a nasty brown recluse spider bite that I'm still fighting (6months) along with 3 polyops (2 precancerous) a double esophageal stricture (fixed) abdominal hernial and internal hemorrhoid.. Yep a very active 16 months. So I hear if I get covid I have a 1% chance of dying...bwahahahahahahahaha!! I'll mask to protect others and try and social distance but as far as I'm concerned God couldn't be any plainer in telling me to get my butt out there and enjoy every second I got left and times a wasting..

[EdFNJ]

You have been bamboozled! The seasonal flu is just as serious. What about heart disease, cancer, etc. You can’t get outta this life alive. Enjoy it while you’re here. Chill! Turn off CNN and go for a hike, without your mask. Fresh air cures a lot of ailments. The people wearing masks touch their faces to adjust their masks 100 times more than without a mask. I thought we weren’t suppose to touch our faces? Unbelievable. You really need to change the channel.

[manaboutown]

]Australia and New Zealand are a small fraction of our population and Japan is an entirely different culture. They have been wearing masks for decades before this started and still are. Americans have a you can’t tell me what to do attitude.

Japan is certainly a different culture.....a culture of obedience. If the Japanese authorities ordered all their citizens to cover their ass with their left hand when walking out in public, that's exactly what you would see. They are a closed society and don't have the freedoms that we have. :bigbow:[/QUOTE]

In Japan "The nail that sticks up gets pounded down." Ever observe Japanese tourists following their guides at tourist destinations anywhere in Europe and elsewhere?

An American young man I know teaches physics at a high end South Korean high school. Early in the Pandemic when he, his wife and baby returned there from a stateside visit they had to endure a highly secure 14 day quarantine. They don't mess around over there.

[dadoiron]

First and foremost, social distancing. It is very hard to contract this virus from more than 6 feet away, even without a mask and especially outdoors.

Second, mask in the appropriate setting. Mostly when you cannot guarantee social distancing, and especially indoors when people are getting within 6 feet. But remember, a mask is not a suit of armor against this virus, it offers minimal protection for the wearer. It helps protect other people to a degree if not distanced. Keep in mind, however, to get the virus from another, that person has to be spewing droplets in your vicinity, he has to be positive for COVID, and in the infective stage as well, plus deliver enough of an inoculum to infect you. The odds are low, but if they were zero, there would be no pandemic. There is no need to worship at the altar of the holy mask, wear it to bed or while driving alone, etc.

Third, while there is little evidence of surface to human infection, it can't hurt to wash your hands often and use hand sanitizer. There are plenty of other germs out there that can be avoided in this fashion

Hope that answers your question

The workers all wore masks but nobody else was and way too close 1 foot from me. Keeping 6 feet away from stupid people is hard when they sneak up on you from behind.

There will be alot of people having this here since apparently those people have not listened.

Can't fix stupid but death is a permanent fix either way.

[Alaska Butch]

You must understand the mechanics of a virus. I was fortunate to work at the military medical school where lecturers from USAMRIID ( US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases) regularly lectured. Viruses work their way through herds. We are a herd. One way or another you will be exposed to this virus. The masks and isolation are measures used to slow the virus. Not stop it. That way our medical capabilities will not be overtaxed thereby saving more lives. So sorry to break it to you! Your gonna get it! The questions are when and how severe you get it. Severity depends on the shape your immune system is in. Not conjecture here. Scientific fact.

[irishwonone]

It's unfortunate that all seniors, at some time, experience fatigue, cough, shortness of breath, headache, and, joint pain. Well maybe not shortness of breath but clearly all of the remainder. Therefore it's clear we're a target for any virus and the safety measures you mention should certainly help!

[Girlcopper]

No, they just got killed by someone who was driving drunk, or texting, or inattention. How is one different from another? :rolleyes:
Because this post is about the pandemic in case you hadnt noticed

[algi45]

Thursday’s Coronavirus Updates: 3,356 new cases, 141 new deaths reported in Florida.
WINK NEWS
The Florida state statistics are irrelevant to TV. The latest number of new infections in TV is 5 with no new deaths.

[PugMom]

Since the dawn of time there is one and only one cure for any virus, exposure. Be it from a vaccine or the the virus itself.

Thus be prepared to 'hunker down' for years. Or accept risks in your life as you have and continue to accept for the remainder of your life for virtually every activity in life.

And I will accept risks and enjoy life by not hunkering down.

i'm with you, 8 MONTHS is long enough. it's getting insane.

[PugMom]

See Dr. Fauci article just published on CNBC dot com .

no thanks. this guy is no longer trusted. i've had enough of this.

[kanoa1kale2]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.

A little statistic. 8 million currently infected, 328 million U.S. population means there are around 320 million people yet to be infected. When the 320 million go back to their normal activities which is inevitable, there will be a spike in infections. If there is a vaccine approved and distributed, that will reduce the problem, but not eliminate it. For most, going back to work is a matter of survival. You will 100% not survive without a job, medical insurance, or a home, but Covid-19 is 99% survivable. Being part of the older population, I have no idea how long I have before the lights go out, but I don't intend to sit at home and wait on it. If I wind up being one of the 1% that don't make it, so be it.

[Labanz]

The mask does NOT protect the wearer. It protects others from the wearer

Why in the beginning were we told not to wear masks? Because we needed to have enough masks for the medical staff! Why? Because they need to be protected! Ask a professional it certainly does help protect them.
In case you don’t know one I do, a life time hospice nurse, and yes it does help to protect the person wearing it. She can not believe how easily people fell for that line, “it protects others”!

[graciegirl]

You must understand the mechanics of a virus. I was fortunate to work at the military medical school where lecturers from USAMRIID ( US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases) regularly lectured. Viruses work their way through herds. We are a herd. One way or another you will be exposed to this virus. The masks and isolation are measures used to slow the virus. Not stop it. That way our medical capabilities will not be overtaxed thereby saving more lives. So sorry to break it to you! Your gonna get it! The questions are when and how severe you get it. Severity depends on the shape your immune system is in. Not conjecture here. Scientific fact.

And....If you avoid getting it by staying away from crowds and wearing masks to get provisions, there are a bunch of savvy scientists working diligently on a vaccine that will we hope protect those of us most at risk from dying........... We may still get it, but perhaps it won't kill us. AND having an immune system not in good shape is not a character fault. It happens with age. BUTCH!!!

[La lamy]

Today’s report from the health dept shows 7 more in the villages since yesterday. Total 747 in Villages. The numbers go up everyday.Ok, they all don’t die but most are left with lingering problems. I know a young woman in her mid forties in excellent health, works out, eats right, and takes good care of herself with no underlying condition . She contracted COVID in March at work before we really knew what it was. She was hospitalized for two weeks and sent home. It is now mid Oct and she is still having problems, difficulty breathing, balance is affected, joint pain and fatigue. She was always such an upbeat person, always full of positivity, now she is a shell of her previous self. Has to go to physical therapy, breathing therapy and Doctor appointment after Doctor appointment. She is depressed and sees no end to her suffering. My heart breaks for her.
Thanks for the reminder that even if you don't die from Covid, the physical ramifications could be a living hell. I'll always choose to be careful to not get infected and still enjoy life. :pray:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

i'm with you, 8 MONTHS is long enough. it's getting insane.

I know. If only someone had warned us that we should close down completely, nationwide, for just a couple of months - to prevent the onslaught for almost a year.

If only we had known...

:censored::oops::shrug:

[asianthree]

You must understand the mechanics of a virus. I was fortunate to work at the military medical school where lecturers from USAMRIID ( US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases) regularly lectured. Viruses work their way through herds. We are a herd. One way or another you will be exposed to this virus. The masks and isolation are measures used to slow the virus. Not stop it. That way our medical capabilities will not be overtaxed thereby saving more lives. So sorry to break it to you! Your gonna get it! The questions are when and how severe you get it. Severity depends on the shape your immune system is in. Not conjecture here. Scientific fact.
So nice to see a post with someone with background, not just an armchair net searcher, or the person who has decided that they can analyze a person without a degree. Some will actually yell at you for your post, but I thank you

[Tracy Turnbull]

I'll keep posting this until more folks understand that while potentially more serious to older people, this virus isn't even as contagious as the H1N1 from 2009.

This data is a week old now:

I continue be amazed at how many folks seem to think everyone they encounter has the virus, when in fact, several days ago Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO Health Emergencies Program Director, said their best guess is that 10% of the world's population has been infected, or about 750 million people. WHO's data says that about 1 million people have died from it. Disregarding whether they died "from" it or "with" it, doing the basic math:

1,000,000 ÷ 750,000,000 = .0013
.0013 x 100 = 0.13% death rate of those infected

OR 99.87% of everyone who gets it survive.

Covid-19: World in ‘for a hell of a ride’ in coming months, Dr Mike Ryan says (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?fbclid=IwAR19_KH6Q7gkLnCFlBglologLJSmHNo 0_hTIFw59NyFrgwD6xkiX8umEr1s)

There have been 7.7 million cases in the USA, well below the 10% figure above. The 2009 H1N1 flu infected over 60,000,000 people. Which one was more contagious? The average death rate for the seasonal flu is 0.1% vs. 0.13% for Covid-19. No one batted an eye back then thinking they might get the flu and so many ITT in a panic for this.

Also, 40% of the deaths in the USA are from nursing homes because the governors of 4 or 5 states thought it was smart to put covid patients into them.

Exactly!! 😊

[La lamy]

Japan is certainly a different culture.....a culture of obedience. If the Japanese authorities ordered all their citizens to cover their ass with their left hand when walking out in public, that's exactly what you would see. They are a closed society and don't have the freedoms that we have. :bigbow:

In Japan "The nail that sticks up gets pounded down." Ever observe Japanese tourists following their guides at tourist destinations anywhere in Europe and elsewhere?

An American young man I know teaches physics at a high end South Korean high school. Early in the Pandemic when he, his wife and baby returned there from a stateside visit they had to endure a highly secure 14 day quarantine. They don't mess around over there.[/QUOTE]

Canada has a strict 14 day quarantine as well when entering the country. Up to a $1,000,000 fine if caught breaking the rule.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So nice to see a post with someone with background, not just an armchair net searcher, or the person who has decided that they can analyze a person without a degree. Some will actually yell at you for your post, but I thank you

It also means there's more time for the vaccines to be developed. When your life (literally - life vs. death) relies on playing the waiting game. You need time to be on your side.

We know there'll be a vaccine, eventually. Will you be dead before we get it, or will you be able to get it? You have no control over whether or not you get sick. But you DO have control over the risks you take, or refuse to take, in order to increase your odds of not getting it.

[ChrissyI1]

Don’t think I’m interested in catching a virus that can kill you just for exposure. Stay home and stay safe. And listen to the scientists and medical community for pertinent information - the numbers don’t lie. And we can do what we want to do - just do it safely - and wear masks. Maybe some people don’t care about there fellow human beings - if they want to take a risk with their own lives that is their right. However, it is NOT their right to infect others and possibly cause death because of their recklessness!

[Skunky1]

Those who do not listen to or heed the science and refuse to wear a mask in public ,stores ,bars, restaurants etc. are super spreaders with little or no respect for their fellow citizens

[Lottoguy]

And who runs the Florida Dept. of Health? LoL

[Lindsyburnsy]

All of reputable scientists tell you that herd immunity will have to infect millions of people and kill at least a 2 Million for it to work, so as Dr. Fauci said "this is nonsense". I would not take my herd immunity cues from a radiologist rather than a virologist. There is only one person who has had the disease and promotes this; the one who was infected and treated with experimental drugs, remdesivir and steroids. Should have let it run its course? Well, everybody else should let it run its course.

[Footer]

I just left Wisconsin where it's starting to get bad. 1 out of 4 people tested are positive. Over 4000 daily cases, a lot in the Green Bay area. Ran out of hospital space so they opened a field hospital at the State Fair grounds in Milwaukee (which is 2 hours from Green Bay but probably easier to find staffing).

I expect the second wave will be way worse there than here in The Villages as people spend more time inside.

I don't quite understand the advocates of herd immunity. Presumably people needing hospitalization will go up significantly. You can only build and staff so many field hospitals.

I'll be visiting a friend with cancer at his house. I feel great but I will wear a mask out of respect for him, even though he won't ask me to. It doesn't cost me anything. Might even cut down on my snacking.

[oldtimes]

I know. If only someone had warned us that we should close down completely, nationwide, for just a couple of months - to prevent the onslaught for almost a year.

If only we had known...

:censored::oops::shrug:

Really? Close all of the supermarkets, doctors offices, gas stations, pharmacies? In the countries that locked down it is coming back. It was just impossible to stop it, the best we could do was slow it down.

[jimjamuser]

You have been bamboozled! The seasonal flu is just as serious. What about heart disease, cancer, etc. You can’t get outta this life alive. Enjoy it while you’re here. Chill! Turn off CNN and go for a hike, without your mask. Fresh air cures a lot of ailments. The people wearing masks touch their faces to adjust their masks 100 times more than without a mask. I thought we weren’t suppose to touch our faces? Unbelievable.
Nice word - bamboozled. Have not seen that one is about 25 years. Great to bring back the oldies. - - and I like all the rationalizations about the impotence of the CV Plague. That did not come out of the mouth of 99% of the qualified Doctors and medical experts. It must have come from some source of misinformation and propaganda. I wonder IF older people in TV Land REALLY realize that they are the most vulnerable to CV. And it has been said to Bob Woodward in tapes to be extremely dangerous. I wonder if they know that cases are almost 70,000 per day in the US and are predicted to go to 100,000 by January. Misinformation is everywhere. Much is sponsored by a country that was the enemy of the US during the cold war, which some have forgotten about, but is STILL going on. An easy way to drive a wedge between patriotic Americans is to divide them into 2 groups .....people that believe the warnings by top US Scientists about CV and the CV deniers. Create a propaganda effort to get Americans into 2 groups ....masked and non-masked. As you can see from the comments here on this local forum, that cold war enemy has succeeded!

[tvbound]

Although it seems popular with some, I think I'll pass on the philosophy being pushed by certain people that - "It's your patriotic duty to become infected, or die, by Covid 19."

[jimjamuser]

Japan is certainly a different culture.....a culture of obedience. If the Japanese authorities ordered all their citizens to cover their ass with their left hand when walking out in public, that's exactly what you would see. They are a closed society and don't have the freedoms that we have. :bigbow:

In Japan "The nail that sticks up gets pounded down." Ever observe Japanese tourists following their guides at tourist destinations anywhere in Europe and elsewhere?

An American young man I know teaches physics at a high end South Korean high school. Early in the Pandemic when he, his wife and baby returned there from a stateside visit they had to endure a highly secure 14 day quarantine. They don't mess around over there.[/QUOTE]
We have been "messing around" with a dangerous enemy. And still have NOT learned from other countries that have MUCH better solutions to CV. I would trade 2 weeks of being quarantined that S. Korea mandated for the FREEDOM of being free of CV and leading normal lives. Small price to pay. The US has suffered from dueling misinformation vs Science. S. Korea and other, successful against CV, countries have a society that values Science and spoke with ONE VOICE to its citizens. That is how to defeat CV. The US has (or had)the top economy in the world. It has the most top scientists and medical experts. Yet this knowledge and strength did NOT get transferred DOWN to ordinary people. There is no unified effort to fight this enemy. Just compare that to the effort to win WWII. WE have lost the fight against CV and History will remember this GREAT loss!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

You must understand the mechanics of a virus. I was fortunate to work at the military medical school where lecturers from USAMRIID ( US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases) regularly lectured. Viruses work their way through herds. We are a herd. One way or another you will be exposed to this virus. The masks and isolation are measures used to slow the virus. Not stop it. That way our medical capabilities will not be overtaxed thereby saving more lives. So sorry to break it to you! Your gonna get it! The questions are when and how severe you get it. Severity depends on the shape your immune system is in. Not conjecture here. Scientific fact.
This is a rationalization for denying the ability of people and countries to fight against the CV. It is fatalistic. At least, it is well worded and hints that Science agrees with that position and opinion. Science does NOT preclude people from reacting well to the emergency. This can be SIMPLY proved by comparing the reactions and outcomes of the US with other countries. Look at Canada's superior results on a per capita basis. Notice that all the top countries the world have universal health care. Oh yes, I forgot one top country does NOT have that superior (for the average citizen) healthcare. Can you guess which one is the outlier? Yes, it is the one with the worst per capita statistics.

[jimjamuser]

All of reputable scientists tell you that herd immunity will have to infect millions of people and kill at least a 2 Million for it to work, so as Dr. Fauci said "this is nonsense". I would not take my herd immunity cues from a radiologist rather than a virologist. There is only one person who has had the disease and promotes this; the one who was infected and treated with experimental drugs, remdesivir and steroids. Should have let it run its course? Well, everybody else should let it run its course.
Good post, Kudos!

[jimjamuser]

Really? Close all of the supermarkets, doctors offices, gas stations, pharmacies? In the countries that locked down it is coming back. It was just impossible to stop it, the best we could do was slow it down.
Pessimistic and fatalistic and incorrect and unaware of the successes of other countries.

[golfing eagles]

Why in the beginning were we told not to wear masks? Because we needed to have enough masks for the medical staff! Why? Because they need to be protected! Ask a professional it certainly does help protect them.
In case you don’t know one I do, a life time hospice nurse, and yes it does help to protect the person wearing it. She can not believe how easily people fell for that line, “it protects others”!

I find it hard to believe that a "lifetime hospice nurse" could be so ignorant. Medical staff wears masks to protect THE PATIENT, not themselves. We wear them in the OR so as to not cough or sneeze (or drool) into an open body cavity. We wear them around immunocompromised patients so WE don't infect THEM. It has nothing to do with protecting ourselves. But glad to hear you KNOW a medical professional:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[oldtimes]

Pessimistic and fatalistic and incorrect and unaware of the successes of other countries.

No realistic. You can't even get Americans to wear a mask.

[Byte1]

I don't know who you are and what your background is, but your ignorance of CFS is astounding. I have lived with this illness for 30 years. You have obviously never studied this illness. I have. After reading that paragraph, I certainly would question anything you write about health.

Did you read the post? He said that he was quoting from another source, not his own information or view. I believe he said that one of the sources was from Mayo, right? He did preempt the post with the fact that the information was NOT research but some opinions of professionals at Mayo.

[coffeebean]

I'd like to see the demographics on these 3030 new cases. The last big bump we had was mostly in the southeast and due to young people going to bars and getting the virus.

Where are these 3030 cases?

What age groups are they in? Are they younger people engaging in more risky behavior or are they older more susceptible people?

I saw an article last week that said in since the schools have reopened, cases of school age children in September have gone down.

In a state with over 21 million people and a large area, 3030 does not seem like a large number and it's important to know how localized this outbreak is. If most of the cases are in Miami, for example, I wouldn't be overly worried. At the rate of 3030 cases per week, it would take 64,000 weeks to infect the entire population of the state?

And as the president has stated, most people (over 95%) will experience mild flu like symptoms.

I'm not taking this lightly. I try to stay six feet away from people and I wear a mask when I go indoors at public places. But numbers get thrown around like they are huge. Every day in the online paper, I see 5 new cases, 12 new cases, 19 new cases etc. like they are huge numbers. They are not. I think that the numbers are low because most people are doing what's necessary to minimize their chance of becoming infected.

Another question that I have is about false positives. I have a friend who along with his wife both tested positive. After two days and two more tests 24 hours apart they were determined to be negative and that the initial results were a false positive. My questions are, how many of these false positives are there and are they counted in the 3030 reported cases?

That calculation didn't seem quite right to me. I did quick math, using the numbers you mentioned in your post........


21,000,000 population divided by 3000 cases per week equals 7,000 weeks NOT 64,000 weeks. Were you just making a joke when you said that?

[coffeebean]

You realize that the distance between the fibers in the vast majority of masks being worn compared to the size of this virus is akin to a chain link fence and a fly, right?

Here we go. One more time..........the virus does not travel by itself. There are thousands of virus particles in one droplet. The virus also travels in aerosols which are smaller than droplets yet are larger than the virus itself. If a mask can block one droplet from escaping into the air, that is THOUSANDS of virus particles that are contained in the mask. Of course, masks block many more droplets than just one and masks do block aerosols too. Just think of all those virus particles that are not escaping into the air that others breath.

The chain link fence and mosquito is useless analogy. It is laughable, actually.

[coffeebean]

The mask is to protect others, not themselves. My neighbor stated some study he heard that 75% of the people getting covid wore masks. I said that's because they got it from the people who WERE NOT wearing masks.

For every study, there seems to be another study pointing to the opposite. I go with the first one I read that put the infection rate much lower if everyone wore masks when not social distancing.

I applaud Publix and Fresh Market for their mask requirements.

That is very true. But, it is up to the prudent person to keep their distance from anyone who is not masked. I also stay away from anyone who wears a mask with a one way valve. Those one way valves, protect the wearer but allow the wearer to exhale into the surrounding air. If the person is infected, the virus can be exhaled into the air through the one way valve. Thankfully, I'm seeing less and less of those one way valve masks in use.

[coffeebean]

Oh well, you do what you gotta do. Personally, I am going to live my life and not worry about it. I have found that worrying does absolutely nothing. If I make a mistake and make the wrong decision, that is my problem not someone else's. I do not plan to "hunker down" at all. As a matter of fact, on Tue I took a nice ride and went to a restaurant where I saw absolutely no one wearing a mask and it was at full capacity. Not even the service folks wore masks. Like I said, I plan to live my life.
I wonder how many folks will die from worrying about this virus. Most likely they will deem it Covid related deaths.
I'll make a prediction. I will live my life and not die from the virus. If I am wrong and I do succumb to the virus and die, no one will know it on here, so it really doesn't matter. :icon_wink:
Which restaurant did you go to? I will not go there until this virus has succumbed to humans.

[tvbound]

I’ve never heard this before. Source?

Simply summarizing those who refuse, or ridicule, the wearing of masks, social distancing, etc. and thinking that we could ever reach "herd immunity." As for sources, those are pretty numerous.

[John41]

I don't know who you are and what your background is, but your ignorance of CFS is astounding. I have lived with this illness for 30 years. You have obviously never studied this illness. I have. After reading that paragraph, I certainly would question anything you write about health.

I agree with you that if he thinks CFS is not a real disease he’s doing a disservice.
How many times have doctors said “it’s all in your head” when in fact a diagnosis by a better doctor uncovers the true disease.

[coffeebean]

You have been bamboozled! The seasonal flu is just as serious. What about heart disease, cancer, etc. You can’t get outta this life alive. Enjoy it while you’re here. Chill! Turn off CNN and go for a hike, without your mask. Fresh air cures a lot of ailments. The people wearing masks touch their faces to adjust their masks 100 times more than without a mask. I thought we weren’t suppose to touch our faces? Unbelievable.

People who are touching their masks to adjust them, are not touching their faces. They are touching their masks. I see it all the time on TV when reporters are wearing their masks that fall down. They touch the mask to pick it back up.

Have you watched Biden touch his nose every two to three minutes when he is giving a speech? I think it is a nervous habit. He is much better off wearing a mask because at least his fingers will not touch his nose like they do when he is maskless..

[jimmemac]

First and foremost, social distancing. It is very hard to contract this virus from more than 6 feet away, even without a mask and especially outdoors.

Second, mask in the appropriate setting. Mostly when you cannot guarantee social distancing, and especially indoors when people are getting within 6 feet. But remember, a mask is not a suit of armor against this virus, it offers minimal protection for the wearer. It helps protect other people to a degree if not distanced. Keep in mind, however, to get the virus from another, that person has to be spewing droplets in your vicinity, he has to be positive for COVID, and in the infective stage as well, plus deliver enough of an inoculum to infect you. The odds are low, but if they were zero, there would be no pandemic. There is no need to worship at the altar of the holy mask, wear it to bed or while driving alone, etc.

Third, while there is little evidence of surface to human infection, it can't hurt to wash your hands often and use hand sanitizer. There are plenty of other germs out there that can be avoided in this fashion

Hope that answers your question
I concur 100% and hope that the naysayers listen.

[coffeebean]

I know. If only someone had warned us that we should close down completely, nationwide, for just a couple of months - to prevent the onslaught for almost a year.

If only we had known...

:censored::oops::shrug:

I never agreed with shutting down. What we needed EARLY ON, (in January) was a mask MANDATE by our Federal Government. We would not be in this mess now.

[golfing eagles]

I agree with you that if he thinks CFS is not a real disease he’s doing a disservice.
How many times have doctors said “it’s all in your head” when in fact a diagnosis by a better doctor uncovers the true disease.

Did you read my post at all????
CFS is NOT a real disease. At most it is a syndrome, one that may or may not exist, cannot be defined, cannot be tested for and cannot be treated, regardless of any cult mystique that has surrounded it. I know I'm talking to a brick wall with many who have chosen to believe in it, but the remaining rational people should know the facts

[Byte1]

I never agreed with shutting down. What we needed EARLY ON, (in January) was a mask MANDATE by our Federal Government. We would not be in this mess now.

Yes, some folks really do NEED a gov nanny to protect them. We don't and didn't need a mask mandate. If you wish to wear a mask then it is your right to wear one. It is NOT your right to demand others to wear one for your safety. You have the right to stay home or go where you will feel safe. You have no right to dictate limitations on other American freedoms. You do not have to agree, but you do have to abide by the law. There is no law that mandates a mask and if there was one, then they would also have to mandate what kind of mask, how you wear it, etc.
Since I have been reading hysterical posts on here, I have started to relax my mask wearing. I have seen how few folks die from the virus and I do not believe that I will. If that bothers you, oh well. Life is full of disagreements, and like the song goes "you don't always get what you want...."
If a business has it posted that customers wear a mask, then I will comply. Otherwise, I just stay a "safe" distance away from folks that I converse with and I don't linger with others that I have to pass.
I do not see why so many folks insist on living in a constant panic mode, but some folks are just weak. Just because someone died from a virus, flu, measles, pox, etc. does not mean that the spores are concentrated in the air. I have always used the wipes offered at stores like Walmart or Publix to wipe my cart and my hands. It's just one of those things that is a habit. Living overseas in some filthy countries, taught me to wash my hands many times a day. I did wear my mask and gloves when this thing first started, and I have had two family members die from the virus(supposedly). But, I refuse to live in a state of hysteria.
Suit yourself but don't presume to tell me how I should "protect" you. Like I have said many times, if you fear the monstrous COVID virus, then stay home and leave the rest of us to live our lives. If we are wrong, then it's just fewer folks polluting your world.
Thanks to all the information gleaned from this forum, I no longer wear my mask as much. I now feel that I have been overly cautious.

[jimjamuser]

Simply summarizing those who refuse, or ridicule, the wearing of masks, social distancing, etc. and thinking that we could ever reach "herd immunity." As for sources, those are pretty numerous.
Google Laaurie Garrett or Dr. Michael Osterholm. They can explain what a JOKE herd immunity really is.

[skylane8]

That's right, YOU DON"T KNOW, and I'm not the ignorant one.
I'll bite---since you THINK you have more expertise than I, please give me a working definition of CFS beyond a collection of somatic symptoms. Give me medically accepted diagnostic criteria. Give me a test that shows CFS.

When someone has a positive ANA and doesn't meet criteria for a specific rheumatologic disorder, ate least we can throw it in the catch-all category of mixed connective tissue disease. When someone has an elevated ESR and muscle and joint aches, we can use the catch-all of fibromyalgia. There is no equivalent for CFS.

Worse yet, CFS has become a sort of cult following. There are people putting out "CFS newsletters and magazines" They may call themselves doctors but most are nutritionists and holistic quacks. This happens with just about every condition that cannot be specifically diagnosed and has no treatment. Patients are desperate to latch onto anything that sounds authoritarian and offers hope.

Now I'm sorry you have had something for 30 years, and if you want to call it CFS, fine. I'm happy you have "studied" it, although I'm at a loss to fathom from what legitimate source you obtained your information. And feel free to question "anything I have to say about health", despite the fact that I have treated tens of thousands of patients and could give 4 pages of credentials here. But I will give you some free advice----eat a balanced diet, exercise, maintain ideal body weight, and take reasonable vitamin supplements, but most of all, do not buy any of the snake oil these CFS publications will try to sell you
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: It's Real, and We Can Do Better (https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/908622?src=par_cdc_stm_mscpedt&faf=1)

[golfing eagles]

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: It's Real, and We Can Do Better (https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/908622?src=par_cdc_stm_mscpedt&faf=1)

Not very impressive---a believer with a degree---there are many of them

Don't get me wrong, bottom line is CFS may very well be real, in 50 years we might be laughing at those that didn't think so. But for now, there is a lot of room for doubt. That doesn't make your symptoms any less real, it just means they don't fit neatly into a diagnostic category, cannot be studied by objective criteria, and has no specific treatment. I hope they find a treatment soon to help you and others. The other bottom line of course is that without an ICDM-9 code , nobody gets paid.

[John41]

Did you read my post at all????
CFS is NOT a real disease. At most it is a syndrome, one that may or may not exist, cannot be defined, cannot be tested for and cannot be treated, regardless of any cult mystique that has surrounded it. I know I'm talking to a brick wall with many who have chosen to believe in it, but the remaining rational people should know the facts

Half the physicians believe it is real and every person who has it knows it is. Many research centers are working to better identify and treat it. I don’t have CFS but understand the frustration of those who do.

[coffeebean]

Yes, some folks really do NEED a gov nanny to protect them. We don't and didn't need a mask mandate. If you wish to wear a mask then it is your right to wear one. It is NOT your right to demand others to wear one for your safety. You have the right to stay home or go where you will feel safe. You have no right to dictate limitations on other American freedoms. You do not have to agree, but you do have to abide by the law. There is no law that mandates a mask and if there was one, then they would also have to mandate what kind of mask, how you wear it, etc.
Since I have been reading hysterical posts on here, I have started to relax my mask wearing. I have seen how few folks die from the virus and I do not believe that I will. If that bothers you, oh well. Life is full of disagreements, and like the song goes "you don't always get what you want...."
If a business has it posted that customers wear a mask, then I will comply. Otherwise, I just stay a "safe" distance away from folks that I converse with and I don't linger with others that I have to pass.
I do not see why so many folks insist on living in a constant panic mode, but some folks are just weak. Just because someone died from a virus, flu, measles, pox, etc. does not mean that the spores are concentrated in the air. I have always used the wipes offered at stores like Walmart or Publix to wipe my cart and my hands. It's just one of those things that is a habit. Living overseas in some filthy countries, taught me to wash my hands many times a day. I did wear my mask and gloves when this thing first started, and I have had two family members die from the virus(supposedly). But, I refuse to live in a state of hysteria.
Suit yourself but don't presume to tell me how I should "protect" you. Like I have said many times, if you fear the monstrous COVID virus, then stay home and leave the rest of us to live our lives. If we are wrong, then it's just fewer folks polluting your world.
Thanks to all the information gleaned from this forum, I no longer wear my mask as much. I now feel that I have been overly cautious.

You missed the point of my post. If the Federal Government had mandated masks back in January, the virus would have been starved of hosts. No hosts, the virus burns itself out. I truly believe we did not have to shut down the economy. Masking would have served that purpose. I would much rather have had a mask mandate than tank our economy.

[GPGuar]

Yes, some folks really do NEED a gov nanny to protect them. We don't and didn't need a mask mandate. If you wish to wear a mask then it is your right to wear one. It is NOT your right to demand others to wear one for your safety. You have the right to stay home or go where you will feel safe. You have no right to dictate limitations on other American freedoms. You do not have to agree, but you do have to abide by the law. There is no law that mandates a mask and if there was one, then they would also have to mandate what kind of mask, how you wear it, etc.
Since I have been reading hysterical posts on here, I have started to relax my mask wearing. I have seen how few folks die from the virus and I do not believe that I will. If that bothers you, oh well. Life is full of disagreements, and like the song goes "you don't always get what you want...."
If a business has it posted that customers wear a mask, then I will comply. Otherwise, I just stay a "safe" distance away from folks that I converse with and I don't linger with others that I have to pass.
I do not see why so many folks insist on living in a constant panic mode, but some folks are just weak. Just because someone died from a virus, flu, measles, pox, etc. does not mean that the spores are concentrated in the air. I have always used the wipes offered at stores like Walmart or Publix to wipe my cart and my hands. It's just one of those things that is a habit. Living overseas in some filthy countries, taught me to wash my hands many times a day. I did wear my mask and gloves when this thing first started, and I have had two family members die from the virus(supposedly). But, I refuse to live in a state of hysteria.
Suit yourself but don't presume to tell me how I should "protect" you. Like I have said many times, if you fear the monstrous COVID virus, then stay home and leave the rest of us to live our lives. If we are wrong, then it's just fewer folks polluting your world.
Thanks to all the information gleaned from this forum, I no longer wear my mask as much. I now feel that I have been overly cautious.
Well said, if someone feels that wearing a mask is helping to keep themselves and others safe then fine... good for them. But I prefer to only wear a mask when it’s required, otherwise I just try to keep a safe distance from others as I go about my own business. I see people out and about wearing masks when there’s no one within 100 feet of them. A little silly to me but I’ll respect their caution and try to give them their space.

[skylane8]

Did you read my post at all????
CFS is NOT a real disease. At most it is a syndrome, one that may or may not exist, cannot be defined, cannot be tested for and cannot be treated, regardless of any cult mystique that has surrounded it. I know I'm talking to a brick wall with many who have chosen to believe in it, but the remaining rational people should know the facts
Read the definition of CFS on the CDC website. Watch the video by doctor Unger. Please stop giving false information about this illness.

[Kenswing]

You missed the point of my post. If the Federal Government had mandated masks back in January, the virus would have been starved of hosts. No hosts, the virus burns itself out. I truly believe we did not have to shut down the economy. Masking would have served that purpose. I would much rather have had a mask mandate than tank our economy.
The thing is there was almost instantly a mask shortage. My wife's a nurse and her hospital had a hard time staying supplied. There was almost nothing available to the general public.

You can mandate all you want but if supply can't keep up with demand it's pretty much an empty mandate.

[biker1]

Golfing Eagles is a physician. I am pretty sure he knows more than you. You would be well advised to listen to what he is saying.

Read the definition of CFS on the CDC website. Watch the video by doctor Unger. Please stop giving false information about this illness.

[Bucco]

The thing is there was almost instantly a mask shortage. My wife's a nurse and her hospital had a hard time staying supplied. There was almost nothing available to the general public.

You can mandate all you want but if supply can't keep up with demand it's pretty much an empty mandate.

All the more reason to maintain a “crew” monitoring and insuring we were prepared,

And

Acting very quickly as soon as we knew we had a problem....January.

And remember, the country did not send masks to China early on that were owned by the government, BUT, they did assist in shipping that material donated by American companies. Wonder if those companies had been told...oh never mind.

[skylane8]

Golfing Eagles is a physician. I am pretty sure he knows more than you. You would be well advised to listen to what he is saying.
When you get CFS, feel free to go to Dr. Eagles. I went to Paul Cheney, MD. He spent the majority of his career working with CFS patients until he retired. I trusted him with my care for 25 years. Dr. Eagles may be a wonderful doctor, but I'll stay with my current doctor who believes CFS is a real illness.

[Polar Bear]

Did you read my post at all????
CFS is NOT a real disease. At most it is a syndrome, one that may or may not exist, cannot be defined, cannot be tested for and cannot be treated, regardless of any cult mystique that has surrounded it. I know I'm talking to a brick wall with many who have chosen to believe in it, but the remaining rational people should know the facts
I've always respected your opinion, doc. But I think you were a bit extreme and harsh in this post.

I know CFS is a nebulous, difficult-to-define condition. But WebMD, The Mayo Clinic, and Harvard Health are a few of those folks "who have chosen to believe in it". Personally I consider them to be among the rational people.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The thing is there was almost instantly a mask shortage. My wife's a nurse and her hospital had a hard time staying supplied. There was almost nothing available to the general public.

You can mandate all you want but if supply can't keep up with demand it's pretty much an empty mandate.

The second masks became readily available again, they should have mandated it. Instead of waiting months for the country to recover (which obviously hasn't happened yet) we would have stood a much better chance of recovering within a month or two after a mandate was issued.

We'll never know, now. And the first wave never ended so no - this isn't a second wave starting. It's just the resurgence of the first one.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

When you get CFS, feel free to go to Dr. Eagles. I went to Paul Cheney, MD. He spent the majority of his career working with CFS patients until he retired. I trusted him with my care for 25 years. Dr. Eagles may be a wonderful doctor, but I'll stay with my current doctor who believes CFS is a real illness.

Eagles is nitpicking. No, it's not a "disease." But yes, it is an illness. People who have CFS actually have CFS. It's a thing. It isn't a disease. But it exists, and it's a thing, and some people have it, no matter which nit Dr. Eagles picks from it.

[golfing eagles]

I've always respected your opinion, doc. But I think you were a bit extreme and harsh in this post.

I know CFS is a nebulous, difficult-to-define condition. But WebMD, The Mayo Clinic, and Harvard Health are a few of those folks "who have chosen to believe in it". Personally I consider them to be among the rational people.

Sure I was harsh, PB. I usually get that way after being called ignorant. And remember, medical websites that are intended for the layperson tend to "give them what they want"

Eagles is nitpicking. No, it's not a "disease." But yes, it is an illness. People who have CFS actually have CFS. It's a thing. It isn't a disease. But it exists, and it's a thing, and some people have it, no matter which nit Dr. Eagles picks from it.

Yes, definitely nitpicking. I wanted to show that the medical community has differing view on CFS and nothing is definitive. I had no delusion that I would be able to educate a "true believer"

“Yeah, there is no IMDE number for CFS so I can’t get paid.” Speaks volumes about him.

Now I'll get harsh----HOW DARE YOU!. First, do you have a reading comprehension issue, since I never posted that. I was explaining how vague symptom complexes are often given a name so OTHERS can bill for them. I personally have given away millions in free care, never denied a patient care based on ability to pay, and never followed my bottom line closely. So as far as your comment goes, I have a few proctologists that I can refer you too. (Sorry, but I think you deserved that)

When you get CFS, feel free to go to Dr. Eagles. I went to Paul Cheney, MD. He spent the majority of his career working with CFS patients until he retired. I trusted him with my care for 25 years. Dr. Eagles may be a wonderful doctor, but I'll stay with my current doctor who believes CFS is a real illness.

I'm glad you found what you were looking for. So to be clear, I've posted a link to Dr. Cheney's clinic, which of course he named after himself. Everyone can look at all the fringe/alternative medicine on the site and decide for themselves

Cheney Clinic - Helping Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (http://www.cheneyclinic.com/)

[biker1]

You should avoid accusing people with domain expertise of giving false information, as you did.

When you get CFS, feel free to go to Dr. Eagles. I went to Paul Cheney, MD. He spent the majority of his career working with CFS patients until he retired. I trusted him with my care for 25 years. Dr. Eagles may be a wonderful doctor, but I'll stay with my current doctor who believes CFS is a real illness.

[oldtimes]

The second masks became readily available again, they should have mandated it. Instead of waiting months for the country to recover (which obviously hasn't happened yet) we would have stood a much better chance of recovering within a month or two after a mandate was issued.

We'll never know, now. And the first wave never ended so no - this isn't a second wave starting. It's just the resurgence of the first one.

There is NO way even with a mandate that everyone would have worn a mask. This forum is proof of that.

[Polar Bear]

Sure I was harsh, PB. I usually get that way after being called ignorant. And remember, medical websites that are intended for the layperson tend to "give them what they want"...
Many websites do what you say, but I don’t put the Mayo Clinic, Harvard Health, and WebMD websites in that category.

[Byte1]

The second masks became readily available again, they should have mandated it. Instead of waiting months for the country to recover (which obviously hasn't happened yet) we would have stood a much better chance of recovering within a month or two after a mandate was issued.

We'll never know, now. And the first wave never ended so no - this isn't a second wave starting. It's just the resurgence of the first one.

"Mandating" the public to wear a mask is almost impossible. You would have to stipulate what is construed as a legitimate mask, how must one wear it to make it lawful, and when would the mask be required. Folks that seem to think that the gov must direct their lives are folks that should live in a country run by a socialist dictator. Americans should have free will. What's next, mandating mask usage during flu season? Mandating long sleeved shirts to prevent sun damage? No one in the gov has prevented you from wearing a mask to protect yourself.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There is NO way even with a mandate that everyone would have worn a mask. This forum is proof of that.

For the people in the balcony, who weren't listening the first dozen times it was repeated with a microphone down on stage:

Increased use = reduced risk.

Expounding on that:

The more people who comply, the less likely anyone is to get sick. If EVERYONE complied, there would still be a risk of getting sick. But the risk would be minimal, and we would've been able to open up a lot sooner.

But since there was no mandate, there was no reason for most people to feel compelled to wear masks. And so they didn't. And now we're on an increased crescendo of the first wave, because 9 months later - the first wave is still alive and kicking.

[guitarguy]

As we see more and more people acquire the virus and successfully recover(most cases), they will be asking themselves why they are still wearing a mask. I guess they wear it to make you feel safe, nothing else. There is a small part of me that says this was the intent of the cdc when suggesting all people wear masks indoors. Somewhat effective but it makes one feel a little safer.

[graciegirl]

Eagles is nitpicking. No, it's not a "disease." But yes, it is an illness. People who have CFS actually have CFS. It's a thing. It isn't a disease. But it exists, and it's a thing, and some people have it, no matter which nit Dr. Eagles picks from it.

I like Dr. Eagles a lot and I am not going to read back and see what he said to see why you just wrote the above.

On the same general subject....I have recently observed this; People seem to think that they are safe in big crowds, but will jeer at the other side...for instance to me whether you are crowded at The Woman's March on Washington, The political rallies in Florida or the protests in Washington and Wisconsin States do not seem to make a difference to the mutated virus that has sickened millions in the world for the first time this last year.

Good morning y'all. I slept in.

[golfing eagles]

Many websites do what you say, but I don’t put the Mayo Clinic, Harvard Health, and WebMD websites in that category.

Here's a good summary of where we stand, from the Western Journal of Medicine

"The chronic fatigue syndrome has gained popularity
among the lay public and has stimulated considerable scientific debate about its existence. Many investigators and practitioners have attributed the disorder to chronic depression.
Difficulty arises from the diverse symptoms associated with
fatigue states; fatigue is a prominent feature of many systemic, neurologic, and psychiatric disorders. Also, fatigue is
a subjective complaint without a quantifiable measure. This
interweaving of many symptoms and diagnoses with disabling fatigue makes it difficult to compare patient groups.
Terms applied to disorders that probably represent chronic
fatigue syndrome are chronic infectious mononucleosis,
myalgic encephalomyelitis, idiopathic chronic fatigue
and myalgia syndrome, epidemic neuromyasthenia, postviral
fatigue syndrome, and fibrositis-fibromyalgia.
Current research on the chronic fatigue syndrome has
focused on treatment, physiologic mechanisms, clinical
subtypes, fatigue quantification measures and markers,
and the association with chronic infections. Although several
potential infectious agents have been identified, including
Epstein-Barr virus, retroviruses (possibly human T-cell lymphotropic virus type II), human herpesvirus type 6, and coxsackieviruses, none has emerged as an indisputable cause of
the syndrome. Research has also focused on identifying a
metabolic marker using phosphate 31 magnetic resonance
spectroscopy and a physiologic marker using single-fiber
electromyography of muscle fatigue. Results have been
mixed, and further efforts to delineate their role in evaluating
the syndrome will be necessary. The question of whether
fatigue is mediated by central nervous system or peripheral
mechanisms has considerable scientific and therapeutic implications. Treatment remains focused on symptom and supportive management as no antiviral agent has proved successful. The answers to the many issues inherent in the chronic
fatigue syndrome await the results of research."

So bottom line---we just don't know

[oldtimes]

For the people in the balcony, who weren't listening the first dozen times it was repeated with a microphone down on stage:

Increased use = reduced risk.

Expounding on that:

The more people who comply, the less likely anyone is to get sick. If EVERYONE complied, there would still be a risk of getting sick. But the risk would be minimal, and we would've been able to open up a lot sooner.

But since there was no mandate, there was no reason for most people to feel compelled to wear masks. And so they didn't. And now we're on an increased crescendo of the first wave, because 9 months later - the first wave is still alive and kicking.

This is nothing but your opinion. There is absolutely no proof that wearing masks from the beginning would have changed anything. Half the people who wear masks use ineffective masks or do not wear them properly. You may think you know everything but you don't and your snarky replies just show your ignorance.
From the people in the balcony, who are tired of hearing it.

[John41]

Sure I was harsh, PB. I usually get that way after being called ignorant. And remember, medical websites that are intended for the layperson tend to "give them what they want"



Yes, definitely nitpicking. I wanted to show that the medical community has differing view on CFS and nothing is definitive. I had no delusion that I would be able to educate a "true believer"



Now I'll get harsh----HOW DARE YOU!. First, do you have a reading comprehension issue, since I never posted that. I was explaining how vague symptom complexes are often given a name so OTHERS can bill for them. I personally have given away millions in free care, never denied a patient care based on ability to pay, and never followed my bottom line closely. So as far as your comment goes, I have a few proctologists that I can refer you too. (Sorry, but I think you deserved that)



I'm glad you found what you were looking for. So to be clear, I've posted a link to Dr. Cheney's clinic, which of course he named after himself. Everyone can look at all the fringe/alternative medicine on the site and decide for themselves

Cheney Clinic - Helping Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (http://www.cheneyclinic.com/)



CFS is NOT a real disease. At most it is a syndrome, one that may or may not exist, cannot be defined, cannot be tested for and cannot be treated, r

Yes, definitely nitpicking. I wanted to show that the medical community has differing view on CFS and nothing is definitive.

Of your two statements above Doc which is true.
1. CFS is NOT a real disease
2. The medical community differs

[golfing eagles]

This is nothing but your opinion. There is absolutely no proof that wearing masks from the beginning would have changed anything. Half the people who wear masks use ineffective masks or do not wear them properly. You may think you know everything but you don't and your snarky replies just show your ignorance.
From the people in the balcony, who are tired of hearing it.

Wow, and people think I've been a bit harsh:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Over the last year, OBB has generally made some very good posts with reasonable thought processes. On this one issue, however, she has decided to worship at the altar in the Church of the Holy Mask. She, and likeminded individuals believe that if everyone wore a mask, all the time, from day 1, there would be no pandemic. Simply not true, pandemics are difficult to get rid of. It took almost 200 years to eradicate smallpox from the face of the Earth from Jenner's original cowpox vaccine. And smallpox was relatively easy since the virus had no animal reservoirs
Some of the always mask proponents believe they are acting out of pure altruism to protect others---well, OK, thank you. Others think the mask is protecting the wearer, which is a minimal to zero factor, one earlier post claimed this was the opinion of a lifelong nurse. The truth is that there are times when a mask is appropriate and times when it is useless, and it certainly is not the answer to the pandemic. Social distancing does more than a mask hands down. And even though surface to human transmission has not been documented to any degree, I'm sure there are still those that are wiping down their groceries with bleach (YUK)

[golfing eagles]

CFS is NOT a real disease. At most it is a syndrome, one that may or may not exist, cannot be defined, cannot be tested for and cannot be treated, r

Yes, definitely nitpicking. I wanted to show that the medical community has differing view on CFS and nothing is definitive.

Of your two statements above Doc which is true.
1. CFS is NOT a real disease
2. The medical community differs

It is a SYNDROME, that the medical community has differing opinions of. (oops, dangling participle)

To be a disease, it has to have a known etiologic agent.

Read post 191

[coffeebean]

The thing is there was almost instantly a mask shortage. My wife's a nurse and her hospital had a hard time staying supplied. There was almost nothing available to the general public.

You can mandate all you want but if supply can't keep up with demand it's pretty much an empty mandate.

As soon as the CDC requested us to cover our faces, many people got to work and made home made masks. 100% cotton was the preferred material to use. Making a face covering with a bandana and two rubber bands was also being done by many. Even using paper towels, rubber bands and coffee filters were being used. Americans were and are very resourceful. If only we were to be trusted to handle THE TRUTH!!! Between covering our faces and social distancing, we could have avoided a shut down if the masking was mandated.

[dewilson58]

If our president implored Americans to wear masks, people would listen to him. Lead by example. We did not get that.......at all. I must believe that we would all be in a much better place today if there was much better compliance to mitigate this dreadful virus.


1/2 the people in this country can't stand him.......they won't listen.


There really is no new information about prevention since May/June.......and people are still choosing to ignore.


States and Cities are free to communicate and restrict.

[coffeebean]

This is nothing but your opinion. There is absolutely no proof that wearing masks from the beginning would have changed anything. Half the people who wear masks use ineffective masks or do not wear them properly. You may think you know everything but you don't and your snarky replies just show your ignorance.
From the people in the balcony, who are tired of hearing it.

I respectfully disagree with you. Wearing masks (even home made) from the very beginning (January) would have starved the virus of hosts. That's all we had to do.......comply with mask wearing and social distancing.

The virus would not have had a chance against us humans. We would have won. Only problem is there would have had to be a high percentage of compliance to prevent the virus from latching on to new hosts. Americans are spoiled and do not want their civil rights taken from them. Hence, we are in a mess now combating an invisible enemy and we do NOT have a handle on it.

The only way out of this mess is a viable safe and effective vaccine and for enough of us Americans to accept inoculation. The vaccine will allow us to reach herd immunity, safely.

There is so much evidence that has been reported that masks do work to mitigate the virus and slow the spread. I will never understand why there are those who deny the science.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Wow, and people think I've been a bit harsh:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Over the last year, OBB has generally made some very good posts with reasonable thought processes. On this one issue, however, she has decided to worship at the altar in the Church of the Holy Mask. She, and likeminded individuals believe that if everyone wore a mask, all the time, from day 1, there would be no pandemic. Simply not true, pandemics are difficult to get rid of. It took almost 200 years to eradicate smallpox from the face of the Earth from Jenner's original cowpox vaccine. And smallpox was relatively easy since the virus had no animal reservoirs
Some of the always mask proponents believe they are acting out of pure altruism to protect others---well, OK, thank you. Others think the mask is protecting the wearer, which is a minimal to zero factor, one earlier post claimed this was the opinion of a lifelong nurse. The truth is that there are times when a mask is appropriate and times when it is useless, and it certainly is not the answer to the pandemic. Social distancing does more than a mask hands down. And even though surface to human transmission has not been documented to any degree, I'm sure there are still those that are wiping down their groceries with bleach (YUK)

Is there some part of "risk reduction" that eludes you, Doctor? Nowhere have I said, hinted, implied, or pretended to believe that wearing a mask would prevent the virus. What I have said, stated, emphasized, and repeated, is that it would reduce the risk, and lower the number of cases.

I'm not a whatever of the holy whosits. I am a proponent of the concept that risk reduction is a good thing, when there is a pandemic going on. And if people would have just agreed to reduce their risks as recommended by the CDC (and by subsequent recommendations as they learned more about this novel virus), the risk of spread would have been reduced. Not eradicated. But reduced. It could have been reduced to the point where we could've re-opened months ago.

I've also stated, on several posts in several threads, that I DO NOT WEAR A MASK OUTSIDE. I guess you skipped past all those as well. Because, y'know - if I was one of "those people" who thought everyone should've worn a mask, all the time, from day 1, I might not have said - on several posts, in several threads, that I DO NOT WEAR A MASK OUTSIDE.

I do, however, make efforts to social distance - even outside. Which is something that sadly - other people refuse to do.

[oldtimes]

I respectfully disagree with you. Wearing masks (even home made) from the very beginning (January) would have starved the virus of hosts. That's all we had to do.......comply with mask wearing and social distancing.

The virus would not have had a chance against us humans. We would have won. Only problem is there would have had to be a high percentage of compliance to prevent the virus from latching on to new hosts. Americans are spoiled and do not want their civil rights taken from them. Hence, we are in a mess now combating an invisible enemy and we do NOT have a handle on it.

The only way out of this mess is a viable safe and effective vaccine and for enough of us Americans to accept inoculation. The vaccine will allow us to reach herd immunity, safely.

There is so much evidence that has been reported that masks do work to mitigate the virus and slow the spread. I will never understand why there are those who deny the science.

I do not disagree that masks help and I do wear one myself in appropriate settings. What I disagree with is the idea that if we had done it from the beginning we would now be back to normal. The countries that locked down and slowed the spread are still seeing a resurgence.

[Charlotte Anne]

Well... our neighbors did just that...(got out enjoying life)
They BOTH just tested positive ������

[graciegirl]

I do not disagree that masks help and I do wear one myself in appropriate settings. What I disagree with is the idea that if we had done it from the beginning we would now be back to normal. The countries that locked down and slowed the spread are still seeing a resurgence.

That sadly appears to be the case doesn't it.

I would not want the job at the Helm of this SHIP......Lives are at risk because of the virus. The economy is at risk as well, and a LOT of people whose very life, their very food and bills rest on getting people back to work. We cannot keep dipping into the "well" forever to fund people.

It is another unsolvable problem for now that people seem to think there is a pat answer to.

The government is not our mother. The economy is going to get worse. Save all money you can. And please don't fan around in crowds if you are old.

[tophcfa]

The small percentage of deaths doesn’t mean that getting COVID19 is inconsequential. Chris Christie didn’t die but he was hospitalized and was in the ICU. That IS a life changing experience! There’s also evidence of of lingering symptoms, so called “long haulers.” There’s now proof that reinfection can occur.
There’s so much unknown about COVID19 that just “living your life” like it’s not dangerous is akin to playing Russian roulette. Please wear a mask & practice social distancing for other people even if you don’t care about yourself.
Herd immunity, which is now being advocated by some, is a recipe for disaster that is going to kill millions, not thousands, and overwhelm the health care system.
COVID19 isn’t Republican or Democrat. It doesn’t care who it kills or sickens. It has only one goal...to replicate. America is the world’s leader among developed countries in allowing COVID19 to replicate. That’s not going to change until millions of Americans stop being stupid. It’s not “freedom” to refuse to wear a mask or ignore social distancing. It is, simply, sociopathic.

Thanks for the post. I can state for a fact that my former next door neighbor at the Villages who died of COVID, after recovering from a medical event at a long term care facility, was not inconsequential. She was a very much alive and great person to have as our neighbor. People need to wake up to the fact that this thing is a very real and dangerous pandemic that needs to be treated as such. RIP Louise.

[coffeebean]

I do not disagree that masks help and I do wear one myself in appropriate settings. What I disagree with is the idea that if we had done it from the beginning we would now be back to normal. The countries that locked down and slowed the spread are still seeing a resurgence.

In the beginning, (January) there were so few cases in the US. How impossible would it have been to stop the virus in its tracks if we had a very high compliance of masking and social distancing? I guess you feel that would have been impossible.

[oldtimes]

In the beginning, (January) there were so few cases in the US. How impossible would it have been to stop the virus in its tracks if we had a very high compliance of masking and social distancing? I guess you feel that would have been impossible.

At that point it was already spreading globally

[Bucco]

That sadly appears to be the case doesn't it.

I would not want the job at the Helm of this SHIP......Lives are at risk because of the virus. The economy is at risk as well, and a LOT of people whose very life, their very food and bills rest on getting people back to work. We cannot keep dipping into the "well" forever to fund people.

It is another unsolvable problem for now that people seem to think there is a pat answer to.

The government is not our mother. The economy is going to get worse. Save all money you can. And please don't fan around in crowds if you are old.

But, would it have been great if our Government told us all the truth when they knew it ?

Would we not be better off had we known the real facts that our government knew in January, listened to a plan and as a country given it our best shot ?

Would we not be better off had our government not decided early on to allow not only disruption occur, but allow terrible bad information be allowed to come to us ?

Would we not have been better off if instead of flat out lying, our government had been honest with all of us, instead of telling lies about the virus and the future ?

The government is not our mother for sure. Mothers would not lie to their children and would make the children’s protection the number one motivation for everything they do.

Our government did not begin this terrible time, but wasted so much time and actions to keep it quiet. At the beginning, we were short masks, etc., which were shipped to China by American companies with government assistance. Had our government been honest and concerned, would that have happened.

As we now know, our government was advised in January, and knew this virus was dangerous while we unknowingly thought we were safe.

Our country has always been strong enough to fight, but when we are informed and not lied to.

On top of that, our own government established a beach head on masks, insured that sides were taken and citizens split apart on the topic.

I am sorry, but our government was irresponsible with this, and continue to be so.

I will never forget that, and many families who have lost people to the virus, especially early on when we were purposely kept in the dark, will never forget either.

[John41]

It is a SYNDROME, that the medical community has differing opinions of. (oops, dangling participle)

To be a disease, it has to have a known etiologic agent.

Read post 191

Doc, here’s the definition I got

Definition of etiology
1 : CAUSE, ORIGIN
specifically : the cause of a disease or abnormal condition

it says essentially that an etiologic agent that you referred to is the cause of a disease. Granted the cause of CFS is unknown but according to the above definition that does not mean it is not a disease just that the cause is currently unknown. Please explain what I am missing.

Also are you saying it is not a disease now but if in the future the etiologic agent is found it could be a disease,

Also let me apologize if you took my statement that “you are worried that without an IDME number you won’t get paid” as a reflection on you. I was referring to a “you” in general not “you specifically” but should have been clearer.

[gatorbill1]

There is now talk of 3rd wave????

[graciegirl]

This is about the strong resurgence of Covid-19 which is happening here and in Europe as well.

It seems to be returning again no matter how it has been handled in France, Germany, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom, Sweden, China, India etc.

The name of the thread is second wave. Since this is happening I think it is fair to say that the virus is doing what it does no matter what happens. It is a world wide thing and God only knows what the tallies of deaths will be at the end.

This is really not political. This is a Pandemic caused by a virus that has morphed into a new one. It hurts some people worse than others. Scientists all seem to agree that the most people who have died are elderly.

Why are some arguing politics??? Do you not see it is an equal opportunity nasty virus? We are all capable of reading what the CDC and the WHO has told us. It has been particularly hard for all health agencies to keep up with a rapidly changing scene. When most of us first heard about it at the end of February the health agencies in China were not clear and not sharing. They had stumbled upon something sickening and killing people in late December. In January it had traveled to Italy...still confusion as to what to do. In early March we knew that New York was having some cases. But by the middle of March it was very clear that it was HERE in the U.S.....and even the experts were not precise at that time with advice. They were thinking to save masks for the medical people and thinking to set up beds. No one could really know how it would play out or exactly what to do. There is still no one saying with clarity what works and what doesn't. Science is often slow to summarize.

[Ginpappas]

Have you ever noticed how many times a person opposed to wearing a mask uses "I". Pay attention, it is really noticeable that it is all about them and no caring for others.

[Byte1]

Have you ever noticed how many times a person opposed to wearing a mask uses "I". Pay attention, it is really noticeable that it is all about them and no caring for others.

"Have you ever noticed" how many times a person that demands others wear a mask use the phrase "no caring for others?" It seems that those folks are thinking of themselves also, or they wouldn't care if someone else is careless with their own safety. See, it works both ways. Personally, I wear a mask when I think it is prudent. Actually, I am wearing a mask less than at the beginning of this thing. The more I learn about the illness, the less I worry. And yes, I have lost two members of my family "supposedly" to COVID. I do not care if you wear a mask or not. If you wish to wear a mask, then by all means wear your mask. I haven't worn long pants in years. See, I live dangerously. But, I don't demand others to dress like me. I will say this again and probably repeat it frequently, if you feel threatened and you can avoid the supposed danger, it is on you to stay safe. It is not anyone else's duty to protect you from exposing yourself to danger. Only you. I have been in stores that require you to wear a mask. I have seen folks comply by wearing the mask under their chins. If the Gov mandated masks, that is exactly what would happen. And if anyone was charged, it would be thrown out of court because the gov did not supply everyone with gov approved masks.
You will not demand folks to wear a mask. All you can do is keep the public informed and let them make the decision to wear or not wear. Like I have said before, I wear my mask when I feel it to be necessary. I do not care if anyone else wears a mask or not. You can howl at the moon for all the good it will do. You will have some that will not wear a mask even if they could see the virus in the air. I am prepared for contingencies. I have paper masks, cloth masks, Lead filtering masks and even a military gas mask. I have a box of disposable gloves, a pack of work gloves, welding gloves. I have safety glasses, goggles, a face shield and a welding hood. I am prepared, but I will not run amok screaming that the "sky is falling."

[jebartle]

Are there more R deaths associated with this virus, just wondering?

[graciegirl]

Are there more R deaths associated with this virus, just wondering?

A better question would be....How many sick folks didn't take advanced biology in school?

[Boomer]

We never really got out of the first wave. It's clear. It's here. No end in sight.

How does it happen that we read posts from people who claim they do what they have to do to follow guidelines, but then go on to show that they are hellbent on convincing others not to listen to the science?

If this were not so real, it would be fascinating. But it is just plain weird, downright bizarre. Incomprehensible.

Then there is the irony of the fact that those who just want to let it all hang out are really the ones holding the economy down because they creep out other spenders.

Even though portfolios might be looking nice and tubby for now, that is not the real economy. And, while I am at it, speaking of portfolios, I have been wondering how those REITS holding commercial property are doing. I have never been a fan of those so I do not really know. Just curious. But I digress.

Wearing masks and washing our hands and having a sensible little pod to hang around with works for us. It's not that hard -- although I know I am going to miss the theater season -- I never came late.:icon_wink:

But too many are being had by dysinformation. (Finally! Spellcheck let me spell that word with a 'y' instead of an 'i.' Makes a more accurate prefix.)

Boomer

[oldtimes]

///

[Ginpappas]

"Have you ever noticed" how many times a person that demands others wear a mask use the phrase "no caring for others?" It seems that those folks are thinking of themselves also, or they wouldn't care if someone else is careless with their own safety. See, it works both ways. Personally, I wear a mask when I think it is prudent. Actually, I am wearing a mask less than at the beginning of this thing. The more I learn about the illness, the less I worry. And yes, I have lost two members of my family "supposedly" to COVID. I do not care if you wear a mask or not. If you wish to wear a mask, then by all means wear your mask. I haven't worn long pants in years. See, I live dangerously. But, I don't demand others to dress like me. I will say this again and probably repeat it frequently, if you feel threatened and you can avoid the supposed danger, it is on you to stay safe. It is not anyone else's duty to protect you from exposing yourself to danger. Only you. I have been in stores that require you to wear a mask. I have seen folks comply by wearing the mask under their chins. If the Gov mandated masks, that is exactly what would happen. And if anyone was charged, it would be thrown out of court because the gov did not supply everyone with gov approved masks.
You will not demand folks to wear a mask. All you can do is keep the public informed and let them make the decision to wear or not wear. Like I have said before, I wear my mask when I feel it to be necessary. I do not care if anyone else wears a mask or not. You can howl at the moon for all the good it will do. You will have some that will not wear a mask even if they could see the virus in the air. I am prepared for contingencies. I have paper masks, cloth masks, Lead filtering masks and even a military gas mask. I have a box of disposable gloves, a pack of work gloves, welding gloves. I have safety glasses, goggles, a face shield and a welding hood. I am prepared, but I will not run amok screaming that the "sky is falling."

I didn't count the "I's" but there were tons of them...

[Dana1963]

Our number of cases doesn't look good today. Looks like it is not going away and scientists were correct in our getting a second wave of virus.
I am hunkering down as I have been since start. There will be a lot less Villagers if everybody thinks it is over.
Second or Third wave already 30 states are showing increases positive and shortage of hospital beds and nursing staff. Fact is there is NO NATIONAL STRATEGY we have 50 states going 50 different directions after 7 months!

[biker1]

Each state should go their own way. Wyoming is different from New York.


Second or Third wave already 30 states are showing increases positive and shortage of hospital beds and nursing staff. Fact is there is NO NATIONAL STRATEGY we have 50 states going 50 different directions after 7 months!

[Byte1]

I didn't count the "I's" but there were tons of them...

Is there a limit imposed on "I"s?

[Lindsyburnsy]

Science has progressed since the dawn of time. Wear a mask, socially distance, avoid crowds. Unfortunately, the quack who is now pushing herd immunity is going to kill millions of people.


QUOTE=Toymeister;1847677]Since the dawn of time there is one and only one cure for any virus, exposure. Be it from a vaccine or the the virus itself.

Thus be prepared to 'hunker down' for years. Or accept risks in your life as you have and continue to accept for the remainder of your life for virtually every activity in life.

And I will accept risks and enjoy life by not hunkering down.[/QUOTE]

[graciegirl]

We all have access to valid information that generally directs those at most risk to be the most careful. Just like anything else it is the individual's responsibility to act on the information that they have carefully sourced.

That is Darwin's survival of the fittest in a nutshell.

That is common sense. That is patience. That is strength.

[Dana1963]

Each state should go their own way. Wyoming is different from New York.
Wyoming is the least populated state yet their cases are increasing. Nobody is trying!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

That calculation didn't seem quite right to me. I did quick math, using the numbers you mentioned in your post........


21,000,000 population divided by 3000 cases per week equals 7,000 weeks NOT 64,000 weeks. Were you just making a joke when you said that?

Correct. I probably input a wrong number.

So 7,000 weeks is 134 years. Still the point is that it would take a long time for every person in the state to be infected at the rate that we are going.

I know, the infection rate would increase as more people got it but the state's population is also growing.

The point is that it would take a long, long time before every person in the state is infected.

[biker1]

You missed the point entirely. There is no "one size fits all" approach since the states are very different from each other. Just like the European countries are taking different approaches.

Wyoming is the least populated state yet their cases are increasing. Nobody is trying!

[gatorbill1]

It's all over now I guess because we may not tell anyone how many cases Florida has every day. If we don't test or report positive cases it will go away.

[chet2020]

Each state should go their own way. Wyoming is different from New York.

Arguably, this is the worst national security issue we have had since WW2 and there should have been a national strategy to deal with it. Within the national strategy, you can make local allowances for population density, current case levels, and other key indicators. Every state had to reinvent the wheel and bid against each other for crucial supplies.

[Bay Kid]

It is the start of flu season. Be careful.

[Boomer]

I keep thinking about that long ago ad for the movie JAWS — “Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.”

That’s how this mess makes me feel. We have been careful from the beginning, worn masks, washed our hands, have socialized with a few others we know are careful also, but done so outside.

I admit though that a few weeks ago, we were loosening up a little. Still being careful, following guidelines, but went inside a restaurant for the first time. Nice place. They had plexiglass between booths and seated people carefully. I was sitting across from only Mr. Boomer, all servers were masked. We entered masked but, of course, removed them for dinner, and it all felt fine. Almost normal.

But now, Ohio cases are on the rise again. My doc’s office called and changed my visit to Zoom because they want to limit as much in person as possible. Cases are now invading the suburbs with increasing numbers — suburbs where there are no nursing homes to include in the count. People know people who have died or are never the same after supposed recovery.

Thanksgiving plans are changing. (Maybe I can find a Cornish hen somewhere.) People are saying to avoid this year’s big gatherings so we will be around for next year. We attended a wedding — on Zoom.

Covid is getting a grip on parts of our Ohio county where it had not been much of a problem before.

This virus is not giving up. A virus needs a host so why in the hell do we have so many among us who insist on rolling out the Welcome Wagon.

[billethkid]

:icon_bored:

:popcorn:

[dhdallas]

You are exactly right but people don't want to hear the truth and just feed in to the hysteria. Herd immunity is inevitable and we are just prolonging getting there.

[Velvet]

Seems to me we are still in the midst of the first wave. I have not felt safe going anywhere since early March when we were just realizing the pandemic was upon us. Mask and gloves are the norm wherever I go and restaurant dining, large gatherings, etc. are out of the question for me for the foreseeable future.
Does it look like the first wave?

[graciegirl]

The number of cases is meaningless.

In Sumter county, population of 135,000, a total of 77 people have died from the virus. That works out to .o5% of the population. Not exactly the end of the world kind of number.

This is not a virus like Ebloa. Get out and enjoy life!

86 have died in Sumter county and 80% of all people who have died from Covid-19 were over 70.

Ebola killed about fifty percent of all infected but they developed a vaccine. Ebola was not as easily contagious, but far more deadly.
We had no good plan against Ebola in the U.S. Doctors were allowed to return to the U.S. from Africa and did not have to quarantine.

coronavirus deaths sumter county florida - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=coronavirus+deaths+sumter+county+florida&cvid=2d3d3d2e3e604449abf9a87f2096a789&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

[Stu from NYC]

Second or Third wave already 30 states are showing increases positive and shortage of hospital beds and nursing staff. Fact is there is NO NATIONAL STRATEGY we have 50 states going 50 different directions after 7 months!

There are limits to the power of our federal govt.

[Altavia]

Does it look like the first wave?

Sumter remains low and steady

[Velvet]

So happy I live in Sumter :)

[John41]

Second or Third wave already 30 states are showing increases positive and shortage of hospital beds and nursing staff. Fact is there is NO NATIONAL STRATEGY we have 50 states going 50 different directions after 7 months!

Governors want and have the legal obligation to plan a strategy for their state and the different states have different needs. Some state governors have been outraged when Feds wanted to step in with a national plan.

[Jerseygirl08]

See Dr. Fauci article just published on CNBC dot com .

Dr. Fauci changes his tune and message on a rotating basis. Depends on who gets to him first. BTW, he's gonna be retiring real soon!!! I'd say don't trust a deep stater, read an unbiased scientific factual article you can trust. CNBC? Really biased reporting. Wouldn't trust them for anything. Whatever you do, do not trust reports coming from JB. Making up "scientific fact" seems to be his MO lately. Think for yourself, don't believe everything you read.