Despite the pandemic, 2020 US death rate increase is lowest in 5 years

[Swoop]

Year to date, the death rate in the US is 8.880/1,000. That is an increase over the 8.782/1,000 rate from 2019. However the increase is the smallest year to year increase in the last five years. With so many deaths being attributed to the Coronavirus, why wasn’t there an uptick in the death rate in 2020? A logical answer would be that the vast majority of Covid coded deaths were with Covid, not from Covid and many of those people would have died even if they had not contracted the virus.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Year to date, the death rate in the US is 8.880/1,000. That is an increase over the 8.782/1,000 rate from 2019. However the increase is the smallest year to year increase in the last five years. With so many deaths being attributed to the Coronavirus, why wasn’t there an uptick in the death rate in 2020? A logical answer would be that the vast majority of Covid coded deaths were with Covid, not from Covid and many of those people would have died even if they had not contracted the virus.

Fewer people going to work = fewer work-related deaths.
Fewer people travelling for leisure = fewer people dying while on vacation.
Fewer people leaving their homes to drive on their daily routines = fewer people in car accidents resulting in death.
Fewer people leaving their houses at all = fewer gang-related drive-by shootings.
It also means fewer criminals breaking into homes, since they don't know if death is on the other side of the door.

People are afraid to live their normal lives, and other people are cautiously living a life adjusted to reduce the risk of catching a deadly illness. It means there are fewer people out and about, moving targets for death.

[Swoop]

Fewer people going to work = fewer work-related deaths.
Fewer people travelling for leisure = fewer people dying while on vacation.
Fewer people leaving their homes to drive on their daily routines = fewer people in car accidents resulting in death.
Fewer people leaving their houses at all = fewer gang-related drive-by shootings.
It also means fewer criminals breaking into homes, since they don't know if death is on the other side of the door.

People are afraid to live their normal lives, and other people are cautiously living a life adjusted to reduce the risk of catching a deadly illness. It means there are fewer people out and about, moving targets for death.
Automobile accident deaths are down, but suicides are up, drug related deaths are up people who died who were unable to have necessary surgery & people died who were unable to be diagnosed are all up. And murders are actually up in 2020.

[billethkid]

Then.......... there should be an increase of deaths at home vs normal at home death rate

An increase in deaths 5 miles or less from home?

There are only so many slices in the pie no matter how one cuts it.

[JoelJohnson]

U.S. Death Rate 1950-2020 | MacroTrends (https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate)

[Swoop]

Then.......... there should be an increase of deaths at home vs normal at home death rate

An increase in deaths 5 miles or less from home?

There are only so many slices in the pie no matter how one cuts it.
Exactly, the cause of death can be manipulated, but dead is dead. The Coronavirus has been compared to the Spanish Flu, but the death rate in the US increased by 31% the first year the Spanish Flu effected the US. Yet in 2020 there hasn’t been an uptick in deaths despite this pandemic...

[jebartle]

We are not finished yet!

[graciegirl]

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality)

[Bogie Shooter]

Yep, that COVID is all just a hoax , as some are led to believe.

[Two Bills]

With.
From.
The operative word is Because.

[John41]

Year to date, the death rate in the US is 8.880/1,000. That is an increase over the 8.782/1,000 rate from 2019. However the increase is the smallest year to year increase in the last five years. With so many deaths being attributed to the Coronavirus, why wasn’t there an uptick in the death rate in 2020? A logical answer would be that the vast majority of Covid coded deaths were with Covid, not from Covid and many of those people would have died even if they had not contracted the virus.

I think you make a good point. I think a breakdown of the change in the way deaths occurred year over year would be useful as hospitals weren’t overburdened last year as they are this.

[Topspinmo]

Yep, that COVID is all just a hoax , as some are led to believe.

IMO it’s not hoax, but not as deadly as some are lead to believe. If so, there would be millions dead and billion infected already. Any virus will be deadly serious on weak, old, and even low % to young healthy. So, anybody with brain will take precautions.

The virus has turned into war for votes. Just like Russian as China get out of jail free card. Funny how we never heard anything about China trying to change our country political process.

I recommend China in focus on utube to get idea what’s going on in world today which most National media Somehow fail to report.

[Swoop]

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality)

That’s based on the number of cases that are coded as Coronavirus deaths in the US. The more you code as Covid, the higher the percentage. But if all those deaths were caused by the virus, then we would have seen a spike in the US death rate in 2020. Based on the numbers you provided in the link, we would have seen an increase of more than 20%. But we didn’t.

[Swoop]

With.
From.
The operative word is Because.
No, not because. If those people died “because” of the virus, the death rate would have spiked up in 2020. There was actually a lower percentage increase than in the prior 5 years.

[Swoop]

Yep, that COVID is all just a hoax , as some are led to believe.

Covid is not a hoax, Covid is very real, it is also really overblown...

[Two Bills]

Covid is not a hoax, Covid is very real, it is also really overblown...

Tell that to the loved ones of those that have died because it, or the tens of thousands still suffering the after effects after surviving it.
There is nothing overblown with the virus, only the more sensational ways of reporting it in some of the media.

[dtennent]

A few things to consider...1) There is a lag in reported deaths that can take several weeks to catch up and 2) It is always good to look at more than one source. Here is a recent report in Forbes magazine which shows a different take. The source of the graph is JAMA.

How Excess Mortality In 2020 Compares [Infographic] (https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/10/15/how-excess-mortality-in-2020-compares-infographic/#9041bee67a24)

Finally, here is a graphic approach to explaining why masks are important.

[Byte1]

A few things to consider...1) There is a lag in reported deaths that can take several weeks to catch up and 2) It is always good to look at more than one source. Here is a recent report in Forbes magazine which shows a different take. The source of the graph is JAMA.

How Excess Mortality In 2020 Compares [Infographic] (https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/10/15/how-excess-mortality-in-2020-compares-infographic/#9041bee67a24)

Finally, here is a graphic approach to explaining why masks are important.

So, the moral of the story is to wear pants and you won't catch the virus, right? :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

[Byte1]

A few things to consider...1) There is a lag in reported deaths that can take several weeks to catch up and 2) It is always good to look at more than one source. Here is a recent report in Forbes magazine which shows a different take. The source of the graph is JAMA.

How Excess Mortality In 2020 Compares [Infographic] (https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/10/15/how-excess-mortality-in-2020-compares-infographic/#9041bee67a24)

Finally, here is a graphic approach to explaining why masks are important.

How about this:
A naked man approaches you with the intention of peeing on you.
You are armed with a gun and pull it out.
That's better protection than a pair of pants, but a pair of pants may keep you from getting splashed on if he has gotten too close and pees because you scared the pee out of him.

Protect yourself and let everyone else worry about protecting themselves. :MOJE_whot: :MOJE_whot:

[Swoop]

Covid is not a hoax, Covid is very real, it is also really overblown...

Tell that to the loved ones of those that have died because it, or the tens of thousands still suffering the after effects after surviving it.
There is nothing overblown with the virus, only the more sensational ways of reporting it in some of the media.
That is the weakest possible response. 650,000 people in the US die from heart disease every year. Is that on the news 24/7? Where is the outrage? There has been no appreciable increase in deaths in the US during this pandemic. So yes, it is overblown. It has received a disproportionate amount of media coverage and fear mongering.

[jimbomaybe]

That is the weakest possible response. 650,000 people in the US die from heart disease every year. Is that on the news 24/7? Where is the outrage? There has been no appreciable increase in deaths in the US during this pandemic. So yes, it is overblown. It has received a disproportionate amount of media coverage and fear mongering. If something can be used politically it will be and this is no exception, finding stats to support any position is done all the time , so called "news" reporting is a challenge in critical thinking and researching what was said, just believe what ever "facts" suites your closest held beliefs

[Byte1]

That is the weakest possible response. 650,000 people in the US die from heart disease every year. Is that on the news 24/7? Where is the outrage? There has been no appreciable increase in deaths in the US during this pandemic. So yes, it is overblown. It has received a disproportionate amount of media coverage and fear mongering.

....and a big dose of mass hysteria...:shocked:

[Marathon Man]

I don't understand why some people have a need to try to convince all of us that Covid is nothing to worry about.

The second post in this thread is definately worth reading. A few weeks ago I tried to do some research on my own to see if I could tell just how deadly the virus was. In other words, just how many deaths above and beyond normal have we had. It is much too complicated for me to come up with the answer - partly because of the items called out in post #2.

[Mrprez]

It is a two way street there Marathon Man. Just as many trying to convince others that it is something to worry about. In today’s order on line economy, there is no need for you to leave your house. You can get most anything delivered right to your door, including a new car! The science has been all over the place in this from the beginning. had their message been consistent from the beginning it might be a different story. Perhaps, if we face this again, we will be better equipped.

[asianthree]

In the next few years there will be an uptick in deaths, not related to Covid, but to cancer. Many people are not going to the doctor, and screenings are at an all time low. Not to mention the amount of cardiac issues that will go undetected

[Swoop]

I don't understand why some people have a need to try to convince all of us that Covid is nothing to worry about.

The second post in this thread is definately worth reading. A few weeks ago I tried to do some research on my own to see if I could tell just how deadly the virus was. In other words, just how many deaths above and beyond normal have we had. It is much too complicated for me to come up with the answer - partly because of the items called out in post #2.
The very numbers that I cited in my OP came from the same link that was listed in post #2. It provides you the death rate per 1,000 per year. Each of the last 5 years there has been a nominal increase in the death rate. The increase from 2019 to 2020 was less than the increase in any of the prior 5 years. Where are the 220,000 Covid deaths? If Covid killed 220,000 Americans, there would have been a surge in the numbers not a decline. Basically, percentage wise, there was no increase in the death rate. So although 220,000 people were listed as Covid deaths. The number of actual Covid deaths is far less. The vast majority of those coded as Covid deaths died from complications from other issues. Since the number did not spike, it appears that the majority of those people would have died with or without Covid. You can look for yourself, it’s all there statistically on the very website you mentioned.

[coffeebean]

That is the weakest possible response. 650,000 people in the US die from heart disease every year. Is that on the news 24/7? Where is the outrage? There has been no appreciable increase in deaths in the US during this pandemic. So yes, it is overblown. It has received a disproportionate amount of media coverage and fear mongering.

Last I checked, heart disease is not contagious.

[Topspinmo]

How about this:
A naked man approaches you with the intention of peeing on you.
You are armed with a gun and pull it out.
That's better protection than a pair of pants, but a pair of pants may keep you from getting splashed on if he has gotten too close and pees because you scared the pee out of him.

Protect yourself and let everyone else worry about protecting themselves. :MOJE_whot: :MOJE_whot:


Armed with gun? Depends on how fast he can pull it out and if he has prostrate problems :duck:

[Swoop]

Last I checked, heart disease is not contagious.
More than 60 million Americans were infected with the H1N1 virus in the 12 month period 4/09-4/10. Yet there wasn’t a fraction of the media coverage that Covid has received. The CDC has reported that only 6% of all Covid coded deaths didn’t involve a comorbidity. Based on those numbers, H1N1 was actually more deadly. Where was the 24/7 news coverage?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Awesome, great reporting job. Now do "permanent lung damage and other debilitating, life-altering illness cases as a result of COVID-19." And compare that with all of those same illnesses as a result of "not COVID-19," for the past 5 years.

[Swoop]

Awesome, great reporting job. Now do "permanent lung damage and other debilitating, life-altering illness cases as a result of COVID-19." And compare that with all of those same illnesses as a result of "not COVID-19," for the past 5 years.
Since no one has any idea, it’s probably just as blown out of proportion as the virus itself.
Some people just can’t stand it when the facts don’t align with their feelings...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Since no one has any idea, it’s probably just as blown out of proportion as the virus itself.
Some people just can’t stand it when the facts don’t align with their feelings...

What is your source for this knowledge that no one has any idea? And what is your source for the knowledge that it's "probably just as blown out of proportion as the virus itself?" Or was that just a feeling, not based on facts?

[Swoop]

What is your source for this knowledge that no one has any idea? And what is your source for the knowledge that it's "probably just as blown out of proportion as the virus itself?" Or was that just a feeling, not based on facts?
Interesting, I cited the fact that although there have been over 220,000 coded Covid deaths in 2020, it somehow didn’t effect the total death rate for this year. You didn’t like those facts, and yes, they are facts. Instead you have asked me to prove an unknown. Since the same sources that have overblown the severity of the virus are touting the long term side effects of the virus, it stands to reason that they are probably also overblown...

[Scott O]

Absolutely agree 100% they have blown this extremely out of proportion...many of us have gone back to our daily lives months ago, work, recreation, eating out etc...and we are all fine...

[transplanted]

Year to date, the death rate in the US is 8.880/1,000. That is an increase over the 8.782/1,000 rate from 2019. However the increase is the smallest year to year increase in the last five years. With so many deaths being attributed to the Coronavirus, why wasn’t there an uptick in the death rate in 2020? A logical answer would be that the vast majority of Covid coded deaths were with Covid, not from Covid and many of those people would have died even if they had not contracted the virus.

My reply is not intended to be political, just using this example because it's one we're all familiar with. George Floyd... - curious how they wove in COVID-19 in conjunction w/his death (as distinguished from manner of death) and was he counted in the COVID death count.
My mom had liver cancer - solely contained w/in the liver - only found on x-ray following a fall after she fainted... developed pneumonia after the fall. During a check on the pneumonia they found her heart valves were flopping around (heart problems her whole life). She died a couple of days later (4 weeks after the fall - and her death cert says liver cancer -- even though it was clearly her heart insufficiency. So it DOES seem they choose whatever they want, among the maladies.

[rlcooper70]

That's quite an observation .... have you considered how many fewer people are driving?

[Swoop]

That's quite an observation .... have you considered how many fewer people are driving?
Accordingly to the NHTSA, in 2020, traffic fatalities are down 3.3% which over the first 3 quarters of the year equals 906 fewer deaths than in the first 9 months of 2019.
So, I don’t think that 906 traffic deaths offsets 220,000 “Covid deaths”...

[Marathon Man]

Interesting, I cited the fact that although there have been over 220,000 coded Covid deaths in 2020, it somehow didn’t effect the total death rate for this year. You didn’t like those facts, and yes, they are facts. Instead you have asked me to prove an unknown. Since the same sources that have overblown the severity of the virus are touting the long term side effects of the virus, it stands to reason that they are probably also overblown...

We had a pretty major shutdown of businesses. Very little travel taking place. People staying home much more than before. I would expect the death rate to drop under these conditions - but it did not. That is the Covid effect on the death rate.

Can I prove it? No. But I have a mind that is capable of logical thinking. And my conclusion is that the death rate was rased by Covid. How much? No idea.

And I'll say it again. I don't understand why some people are so passionate about trying to convince us all that Covid is nothing to worry about. I don't live in fear. And I certainly did not panic when all this started. But, I am going to continue to wear a make in stores and keep a bit of distance between others and myself. If that bothers someone, their problem not mine.

[Swoop]

We had a pretty major shutdown of businesses. Very little travel taking place. People staying home much more than before. I would expect the death rate to drop under these conditions - but it did not. That is the Covid effect on the death rate.

Can I prove it? No. But I have a mind that is capable of logical thinking. And my conclusion is that the death rate was rased by Covid. How much? No idea.

And I'll say it again. I don't understand why some people are so passionate about trying to convince us all that Covid is nothing to worry about. I don't live in fear. And I certainly did not panic when all this started. But, I am going to continue to wear a make in stores and keep a bit of distance between others and myself. If that bothers someone, their problem not mine.

Suicides are up, drug related deaths are up & murders are all up in 2020. Offset that with a decrease in traffic deaths. So what happened to the 220,000 “Covid deaths”?
Did the vast majority of them die from their other health issues that would most likely have killed them even without Covid? That seems to be “logical thinking”...

[Byte1]

We had a pretty major shutdown of businesses. Very little travel taking place. People staying home much more than before. I would expect the death rate to drop under these conditions - but it did not. That is the Covid effect on the death rate.

Can I prove it? No. But I have a mind that is capable of logical thinking. And my conclusion is that the death rate was rased by Covid. How much? No idea.

And if we banned automobiles, the death rate would go down also. And if folks ate less, there would be less deaths attributed to diabetes, high blood pressure and stroke. If we banned alcohol, there would be less deaths related to alcohol abuse, etc, etc. I think the point may be that the virus may or may not have been over exploited, exaggerated, over blown.
I am not suggesting that the virus is a hoax. I am suggesting that maybe some panic stricken folks are over reacting. Or, maybe not. Some of you are hiding under your beds in fear (right or wrong) and demanding others do the same. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the human race will be wiped out by this virus. If you fear the virus, then by all means wear protective gear. Protect yourself. Like I have said over and over again, don't expect me to protect you. I am not being negligent UNLESS I discover that I am infected and still wander about the public without taking protective precautions.
When aids was first discovered, I used plastic utensils when I ate out and straws, rather than drink out of washed glasses or forks. Later, when more information was available I realized that I was taking unnecessary precautions. Folks wouldn't allow their kids to attend school with HIV infected children.
I am glad we are having these discussions, because I have now relaxed my guard a bit regarding the virus scare. I am not discounting masks. I rely more upon social distancing than protective attire. My daily activities have returned to just about normal. I am not wasting my time worrying about something that is less likely to infect me than catching the common cold. And I haven't had a cold in about ten years or so.
Do what you gotta do, but don't stress yourselves out worrying about what other folks are doing.

[Bay Kid]

Covid is not a hoax, Covid is very real, it is also really overblown...

Only the Chinese know for sure.

[merrymini]

Does being bored to death count?

[Rlparks84003]

This internet post has been found to be misleading and not totally accurate. You can make statistics say what you want. It seems most responders are reading what they already believe. A few simple fact checks will show this post is old, not accurate and misleading. Latest data shows 280,000 excess deaths this year. A little simple research is all it takes

[Swoop]

This internet post has been found to be misleading and not totally accurate. You can make statistics say what you want. It seems most responders are reading what they already believe. A few simple fact checks will show this post is old, not accurate and misleading. Latest data shows 280,000 excess deaths this year. A little simple research is all it takes

This post is neither old nor inaccurate. The only thing misleading is the coding of 280,000 Covid deaths. If 280,000 people died from the Coronavirus in the US in 2020, then why wasn’t there a spike in the actual death rate? The majority of those deaths were most likely from other preexisting conditions. Most would have died anyway, even without Covid. That’s why the death rate in 2020 increased at a lower rate than any of the previous 5 years. Simple facts. Look at the death rates in the US for the last 5 years and see for yourself.

[wxxhead]

Very interesting!

[jimjamuser]

Automobile accident deaths are down, but suicides are up, drug related deaths are up people who died who were unable to have necessary surgery & people died who were unable to be diagnosed are all up. And murders are actually up in 2020.
I can understand why murders are up - CV has caused tension to go up and is tearing apart the social fabric. There are probably disputes arising within families that end up in violence. - Racial tensions are rising from issues of wealth disparity, job loss, current fear of Police, and ultimately a fear of future increased Police state. Social fabric tension causes fear of change in general, which leads to crime, which might escalate to murder. In an environment of fear, people become more tribal and want to place blame on the "OTHER" groups or tribes, often minorities. Strange conspiracy theories take hold with people unemployed and staying at home, which get spread more than usual on social media sites that do not block the hate. - people are becoming homeless as they can no longer pay their rent and mortgages. This will be hard to reverse at this time. These people will lose hope and get more and more desperate. It is not a pretty picture. The future is confused and insecure. Also, suicides are a problem already mentioned in other posts.

[kappy]

I believe it will be years before we know how many deaths that are attributed to the virus are really virus related. In all likelihood, the vast majority of deaths that are registered as COVID deaths probably had another more likely cause and getting the virus caused a quicker death, primarily with the elderly. We, of course, do not know what damage may have been done to the bodies of all those people who survived the virus. When we have a vaccine and start to see the elimination of the virus, some scientists will go back and look at all the COVID deaths to get a better idea of the number of deaths that can actually be attributed to the virus alone. Hopefully, that day will be soon. Since I am a senior citizen, I will continue to wear a mask and socially distance myself.

[jimjamuser]

Exactly, the cause of death can be manipulated, but dead is dead. The Coronavirus has been compared to the Spanish Flu, but the death rate in the US increased by 31% the first year the Spanish Flu effected the US. Yet in 2020 there hasn’t been an uptick in deaths despite this pandemic...
Improvements in medical science could explain some of that difference. Also, even though the US responded slower to CV than other countries, the US may have responded even slower and not as well during the Spanish Flu. Which, interestingly, was really started in Kansas, but got misnamed by the US Government. Funny how History never corrected that mistake?

[jimjamuser]

How about this:
A naked man approaches you with the intention of peeing on you.
You are armed with a gun and pull it out.
That's better protection than a pair of pants, but a pair of pants may keep you from getting splashed on if he has gotten too close and pees because you scared the pee out of him.

Protect yourself and let everyone else worry about protecting themselves. :MOJE_whot: :MOJE_whot:
Some people think that guns are the solution to every problem. And that is one reason that murders in the US are up, and suicides.

[jimjamuser]

It is a two way street there Marathon Man. Just as many trying to convince others that it is something to worry about. In today’s order on line economy, there is no need for you to leave your house. You can get most anything delivered right to your door, including a new car! The science has been all over the place in this from the beginning. had their message been consistent from the beginning it might be a different story. Perhaps, if we face this again, we will be better equipped.
The Medical Science has evolved as they learned more about the CV. The Science has been very consistent since about June. You can trust Science better than the non-science (nonsense). The non-Science has divided the US into 2 tribes, that for simplicity sake, can be described as "non-masked and masked". Our social media is filled with propaganda - some internal to the US and some external, like mostly Russia. Their objective is to cause wedges to divide America and destabilize her.

[Byte1]

Some people think that guns are the solution to every problem. And that is one reason that murders in the US are up, and suicides.

Funny how my guns are loaded and ready and yet not one of them has gone out and killed anyone. My guns must be pacifists. :1rotfl::MOJE_whot:

[John41]

Some people think that guns are the solution to every problem. And that is one reason that murders in the US are up, and suicides.

Actually the highest murder rate with guns is in the cities with strong gun control.
Also Mexico has very tough gun control but the drug cartels don’t pay attention to gun laws.

[Roron123]

Wow! A smart person at long last! You are absolutely correct what about all those people who have died from that Flu in 2020 over 20K and heart attacks, cancer etc but Covid gets a ride on these so that hospitals and medical field get "better payments" UGH! despicable!

[lindaelane]

That is the death rate "to date". You compared it with the death rate for all of 2019.

I completely agree that Covid will probably not result in a really high "excess death rate" when all the data are in, but we have to wait for the date to be in. Then we have to compare like to like, so we should compare the Covid period to a period when we had a bad flu season.

No, I am not committing the heresy of telling people not to take Covid seriously. It kills people - take it seriously.

But google "Great Barrington Declaration" if you would like good sense from professionals at Oxford University about lockdowns.

[Topspinmo]

The Medical Science has evolved as they learned more about the CV. The Science has been very consistent since about June. You can trust Science better than the non-science (nonsense). The non-Science has divided the US into 2 tribes, that for simplicity sake, can be described as "non-masked and masked". Our social media is filled with propaganda - some internal to the US and some external, like mostly Russia. Their objective is to cause wedges to divide America and destabilize her.

Wow, Russia. I didn’t know the Russian’s planted It in China and they got blamed for Covid-19.

[Pairadocs]

Fewer people going to work = fewer work-related deaths.
Fewer people travelling for leisure = fewer people dying while on vacation.
Fewer people leaving their homes to drive on their daily routines = fewer people in car accidents resulting in death.
Fewer people leaving their houses at all = fewer gang-related drive-by shootings.
It also means fewer criminals breaking into homes, since they don't know if death is on the other side of the door.

People are afraid to live their normal lives, and other people are cautiously living a life adjusted to reduce the risk of catching a deadly illness. It means there are fewer people out and about, moving targets for death.

Yes, exactly. Could (possible) also see large uptick in 2021 from various medical conditions that people were afraid, or reluctant to address right now fearing doctors' offices, ER's, and hospitals more than what "might" be ailing them ? The future will be interesting, all states are experiencing a greatly reduced demand for gasoline, saving refined fuel, yet, states then suffer greatly from the reduced fuel taxes ! ? Every airplane that does not land and take off, every cruise ship that does not leave a Florida port is a tremendous amount of money the state will NOT have this year. Restaurant, hotel, etc. taxes, all down. How to balance ? Property taxes up perhaps ? Sales taxes raised ? So many dominoes in the line of the virus besides the obvious unemployment, homelessness, etc.

[transplanted]

We are not finished yet!

That doesn't explain the YTD vs 2019 numbers -- only 2 months to go and I doubt it's highly unlikely to significantly increase the ratio in that period of time.

[coffeebean]

And if we banned automobiles, the death rate would go down also. And if folks ate less, there would be less deaths attributed to diabetes, high blood pressure and stroke. If we banned alcohol, there would be less deaths related to alcohol abuse, etc, etc. I think the point may be that the virus may or may not have been over exploited, exaggerated, over blown.
I am not suggesting that the virus is a hoax. I am suggesting that maybe some panic stricken folks are over reacting. Or, maybe not. Some of you are hiding under your beds in fear (right or wrong) and demanding others do the same. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the human race will be wiped out by this virus. If you fear the virus, then by all means wear protective gear. Protect yourself. Like I have said over and over again, don't expect me to protect you. I am not being negligent UNLESS I discover that I am infected and still wander about the public without taking protective precautions.
When aids was first discovered, I used plastic utensils when I ate out and straws, rather than drink out of washed glasses or forks. Later, when more information was available I realized that I was taking unnecessary precautions. Folks wouldn't allow their kids to attend school with HIV infected children.
I am glad we are having these discussions, because I have now relaxed my guard a bit regarding the virus scare. I am not discounting masks. I rely more upon social distancing than protective attire. My daily activities have returned to just about normal. I am not wasting my time worrying about something that is less likely to infect me than catching the common cold. And I haven't had a cold in about ten years or so.
Do what you gotta do, but don't stress yourselves out worrying about what other folks are doing.

OK then.....if you don't want to protect me, how about protecting our economy and our way of life as we knew it? Do you see what is happening in some of our cities? They are imposing restrictions AGAIN because this virus is out of control; thanks to people like you.

Secondly, if you find out you are infected, you are supposed to quarantine yourself. You should not be "wandering about in public" even if you are "taking protective precautions".

In closing.....how would you know you are either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic if you are not being tested every single day (and hope the tests are accurate)? As you said yourself, you would take precautions if you knew your were infected but you are not taking those same precautions on a daily basis just in case you are infected but don't know it.

Bottom line.... I will never agree with your POV so I'll agree to disagree.

[chet2020]

Automobile accident deaths are down, but suicides are up, drug related deaths are up people who died who were unable to have necessary surgery & people died who were unable to be diagnosed are all up. And murders are actually up in 2020.

Suicide rate is unchanged in 2020. Here is my source, what is yours? In fact, what are your sources for the rest of your claims?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/21/suicide-rates-pandemic-unchanged/

[Byte1]

OK then.....if you don't want to protect me, how about protecting our economy and our way of life as we knew it? Do you see what is happening in some of our cities? They are imposing restrictions AGAIN because this virus is out of control; thanks to people like you.

Secondly, if you find out you are infected, you are supposed to quarantine yourself. You should not be "wandering about in public" even if you are "taking protective precautions".

In closing.....how would you know you are either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic if you are not being tested every single day (and hope the tests are accurate)? As you said yourself, you would take precautions if you knew your were infected but you are not taking those same precautions on a daily basis just in case you are infected but don't know it.

Bottom line.... I will never agree with your POV so I'll agree to disagree.

Before responding to my post, try reading it.
To make it easier, I will summarize for you. I said I wear my mask ..............never mind. Some folks would rather hide under their beds than reason with logic.
I noticed that you singled out only one line that you seemed to take offense with. By your logic(?) I would have to wear a mask all the time during flu season, also. I am not going to pretend that I am going to coddle folks in their hysteria over this illness. I do not wear a mask during flu season either, and do not intend to UNLESS I have the flu or unless it is mandated. If that offends folks, oh well. Like I said in my post, which seems to have been skipped over, I wear a mask when I feel it is necessary or when a business requests wearing one in order to shop in their store. If I feel it is necessary, I will also wear gloves and eye protection. I maintain my distance when I am able and if not I move along as expeditiously as possible. I don't apologize for giving the appearance of a cold shoulder to those that feel it important to them to demand others "protect" them. It's not my duty or responsibility to "protect" folks that can easily protect themselves. It is not my fault if they wish to walk out into traffic or swim with the sharks. Sorry for not being sorry.
I do not run and get myself tested for COVID when I do not have ANY symptoms. It is a waste of time and money, as well as using up a test that might be needed elsewhere. Hey, like I said before if I become infected and pass, you can say "I told you so." If you wish to protect me, stay at home. If you wish for me to protect you, stay at home. There, for those that need it stated once more my advice and my offer of protection extends only as far as suggesting that you stay at home if you wish a guarantee of being safe.

[kkingston57]

If this is correct, my best guess is that that there are less deaths attributable to auto accidents or other types of accident. Clearly there were a lot less people on the road.

[coffeebean]

Before responding to my post, try reading it.
To make it easier, I will summarize for you. I said I wear my mask ..............never mind. Some folks would rather hide under their beds than reason with logic.
I noticed that you singled out only one line that you seemed to take offense with. By your logic(?) I would have to wear a mask all the time during flu season, also. I am not going to pretend that I am going to coddle folks in their hysteria over this illness. I do not wear a mask during flu season either, and do not intend to UNLESS I have the flu or unless it is mandated. If that offends folks, oh well. Like I said in my post, which seems to have been skipped over, I wear a mask when I feel it is necessary or when a business requests wearing one in order to shop in their store. If I feel it is necessary, I will also wear gloves and eye protection. I maintain my distance when I am able and if not I move along as expeditiously as possible. I don't apologize for giving the appearance of a cold shoulder to those that feel it important to them to demand others "protect" them. It's not my duty or responsibility to "protect" folks that can easily protect themselves. It is not my fault if they wish to walk out into traffic or swim with the sharks. Sorry for not being sorry.
I do not run and get myself tested for COVID when I do not have ANY symptoms. It is a waste of time and money, as well as using up a test that might be needed elsewhere. Hey, like I said before if I become infected and pass, you can say "I told you so." If you wish to protect me, stay at home. If you wish for me to protect you, stay at home. There, for those that need it stated once more my advice and my offer of protection extends only as far as suggesting that you stay at home if you wish a guarantee of being safe.

I did read your entire post before I responded. What struck me were the comments I highlighted and I responded to those comments. I am glad to see you do wear mask when it is requested. That is the least we can all do to do our part.

[xNYer]

Year to date, the death rate in the US is 8.880/1,000. That is an increase over the 8.782/1,000 rate from 2019. However the increase is the smallest year to year increase in the last five years. With so many deaths being attributed to the Coronavirus, why wasn’t there an uptick in the death rate in 2020? A logical answer would be that the vast majority of Covid coded deaths were with Covid, not from Covid and many of those people would have died even if they had not contracted the virus.
Where did you get this information.

[biker1]

The facts are that nobody really knows where it started and there is much speculation about a number of possible sources, including China. Spain has not been seriously considered as a starting point. The "Spanish Flu" is just a moniker.

Improvements in medical science could explain some of that difference. Also, even though the US responded slower to CV than other countries, the US may have responded even slower and not as well during the Spanish Flu. Which, interestingly, was really started in Kansas, but got misnamed by the US Government. Funny how History never corrected that mistake?

[Swoop]

Suicide rate is unchanged in 2020. Here is my source, what is yours? In fact, what are your sources for the rest of your claims?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/21/suicide-rates-pandemic-unchanged/
You post a link to a newspaper article about a completely non scientific “study” by 2 doctors, looking at suicides in one state. This is what the CDC says:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6932a1-H.pdf

[Swoop]

[QUOTE=xNYer;1851132]Where did you get this information.[/

[Swoop]

If this is correct, my best guess is that that there are less deaths attributable to auto accidents or other types of accident. Clearly there were a lot less people on the road.
From NHTSA:
“The FARS data indicate that an estimated 8,870 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes in the second quarter of 2020, a decrease of about 3.3% compared to the second quarter of 2019, which translates into 302 fewer fatalities as compared to the same period in 2019.Oct 1, 2020”
Hardly offsets 220,000 “Coronavirus deaths”...