Herd Immunity

[coffeebean]

Another thread closed before I could respond to a comment. I'm getting "Thread Closed" fatigue........

Originally posted by oneclickplus..........
"You can't get "herd immunity" without infecting the herd. Take OFF your mask and go about your life. If you're worried about other people living free without a mask - then stay home."

We will achieve herd immunity SAFELY when enough people globally are inoculated with a safe and effective vaccine. I can only hope that day will come while I'm still alive and can once again enjoy life as it was pre-pandemic.

In the mean time, I will wear my mask when in public indoors all the time and outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. The exception to wearing a mask indoors is when dining in a restaurant. Hubby and I will not go to any restaurant that does not socially distance their patrons. That is a choice hubby and I have made for ourselves. We are doing everything we can to stay safe yet still enjoy life. It can be done. No, we do not want to stay home.

[Michread]

With herd immunity you don’t get a shot of mercury and aluminum. Vaccines contain known toxins that in any other ingest able, and /or injected form are banned.

[coffeebean]

With herd immunity you don’t get a shot of mercury and aluminum. Vaccines contain known toxins that in any other ingest able, and /or injected form are banned.

The FDA will assure us that the vaccine is safe. I will believe them. I've never died of a vaccine before and I figure I will survive this one too.

Achieving herd immunity without a vaccine will find us with many many more deaths. That is NOT the way to go.

[Velvet]

With herd immunity you don’t get a shot of mercury and aluminum. Vaccines contain known toxins that in any other ingest able, and /or injected form are banned.

Yes, you are right, you get a chance to die a painful, suffocating, lonely death instead. Yeah for herd immunity!

[coffeebean]

Here is another comment I would like to reply to (from that CLOSED thread).......

sooziesoul stated:
"I’m 40 years in Healthcare and I KNOW what masks can and can’t do. Masks do NOT "contain a virus. Particulates of a virus are so small that they pass right through!"

Really? 40 years in healthcare? Have you heard of "Droplet Precations"?

The virus does not travel on its own. The virus is contained in droplets and/or aerosols which are larger than the virus particles. There is no respiratory virus that will eject itself from the body all by itself. Those teeny tiny virus particles need a mode of transmission. That mode of transmission is droplets and aerosols.

[oldtimes]

Another thread closed before I could respond to a comment. I'm getting "Thread Closed" fatigue........

Originally posted by oneclickplus..........
"You can't get "herd immunity" without infecting the herd. Take OFF your mask and go about your life. If you're worried about other people living free without a mask - then stay home."

We will achieve herd immunity SAFELY when enough people globally are inoculated with a safe and effective vaccine. I can only hope that day will come while I'm still alive and can once again enjoy life as it was pre-pandemic.

In the mean time, I will wear my mask when in public indoors all the time and outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. The exception to wearing a mask indoors is when dining in a restaurant. Hubby and I will not go to any restaurant that does not socially distance their patrons. That is a choice hubby and I have made for ourselves. We are doing everything we can to stay safe yet still enjoy life. It can be done. No, we do not want to stay home.

What is your objective with all these threads? Do you think you are going to change anyone’s mind? It doesn’t matter how right or wrong you are people are still going to do what they want.

[Velvet]

And... I am pretty sure most people know exactly when there was turn towards the policy of heard immunity and why, a couple of weeks ago.

[xkeowner]

The virus does not travel on its own. The virus is contained in droplets and/or aerosols which are larger than the virus particles. There is no respiratory virus that will eject itself from the body all by itself. Those teeny tiny virus particles need a mode of transmission. That mode of transmission is droplets and aerosols.[/QUOTE]

What happens to those droplets when the reach either the inside or outside of a paper or cloth mask. The are quickly absorbed and no longer have the integrity of a droplet. This allows the componets within the droplet to separate and then pass through the mask. Masks may briefly delay the passage of a virus but unless it is a N95 rated mask they do not stop it.

[Velvet]

What is your objective with all these threads? Do you think you are going to change anyone’s mind? It doesn’t matter how right or wrong you are people are still going to do what they want.

Yes, I do believe repeating a message makes a difference. Just look at the percentage of mask compliance over the month nationally. Sometimes the only way people finally hear is when you play the broken record. Most politicians do this.

[coffeebean]

What is your objective with all these threads? Do you think you are going to change anyone’s mind? It doesn’t matter how right or wrong you are people are still going to do what they want.

I keep hoping one person will actually listen and open their mind. The information I pass on in these threads is very much available to anyone. I believe in the science and scientists.

I've heard the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. I guess, that is what I'm up against. I just keep plugging along and hope one person will open their minds to science that has been proven.

[oldtimes]

I keep hoping one person will actually listen and open their mind. The information I pass on in these threads is very much available to anyone. I believe in the science and scientists.

I've heard the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. I guess, that is what I'm up against. I just keep plugging along and hope one person will open their minds to science that has been proven.

Good luck then. I just think sometimes it just makes people dig their heels in harder.

[coffeebean]

What happens to those droplets when the reach either the inside or outside of a paper or cloth mask. The are quickly absorbed and no longer have the integrity of a droplet. This allows the componets within the droplet to separate and then pass through the mask. Masks may briefly delay the passage of a virus but unless it is a N95 rated mask they do not stop it.

Please provide a link to this information that the virus can pass through a mask when the droplets/aerosols have evaporated.

I have posted a video several times on this forum that demonstrates how well a single layer of T Shirt material blocks droplets from spraying onto a mirror when water is spritzed on the fabric in front of a mirror. NO water droplets get through and the mirror stays perfectly dry. If there are virus in those droplets. you are saying that the virus will proceed through the fabric all by itself? Really? I would honestly like to know if this can happen.

Logically, if the virus is on the outside of the mask after the droplet has completely evaporated, how in the world does the virus make its way to the other side of the fabric or paper mask? Think about that. Does the virus have feet? I honestly don't think this is possible and I have not read any articles that claim this is a possibility.

We are supposed to be very careful when handling our masks when removing them so not to contaminate our hands. Personally, I take off my mask by the ear loops and reach behind my ear to remove the mask. Another safety practice people should be doing after they remove their masks is to either sanitize their hands or wash their hands with soap and water. That may be the reason we sometimes see people driving in their cars, by themselves, with a mask on. They do not want to contaminate their hands.

Again, please provide a link that states the virus can pass through a mask (not N95) after the droplets/aerosols have evaporated. Thanks.

[Altavia]

I keep hoping one person will actually listen and open their mind. The information I pass on in these threads is very much available to anyone. I believe in the science and scientists.

I've heard the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. I guess, that is what I'm up against. I just keep plugging along and hope one person will open their minds to science that has been proven.

Sadly, being intentionally obtuse and contrarian seems to be the new religion for some...

We are approaching the point of no return to avoid overflowing the medical systems worldwide.

[coffeebean]

Good luck then. I just think sometimes it just makes people dig their heels in harder.

I get it. Those folks have their fingers in their ears while loudly yelling, "la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la". Yup. I've seen them do it. LOL.

emoticon with fingers in ears - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=emoticon+with+fingers+in+ears&client=firefox-b-1-d&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=ENWj4ImjoqGZNM%252CMJ_Bq3Q2V_HT8M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQ8sC4pklGjmnF-jbe9mb2fZvK-Uw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQ-MPQl9rsAhWN1FkKHcTICo0Q9QF6BAgLEDM#imgrc=ENWj4Imjo qGZNM)

EDIT: I STILL don't have any idea how to post a picture on this forum.

[oldtimes]

I get it. Those folks have their fingers in their ears while loudly yelling, "la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la". Yup. I've seen them do it. LOL.

emoticon with fingers in ears - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=emoticon+with+fingers+in+ears&client=firefox-b-1-d&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=ENWj4ImjoqGZNM%252CMJ_Bq3Q2V_HT8M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQ8sC4pklGjmnF-jbe9mb2fZvK-Uw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQ-MPQl9rsAhWN1FkKHcTICo0Q9QF6BAgLEDM#imgrc=ENWj4Imjo qGZNM)

EDIT: I STILL don't have any idea how to post a picture on this forum.


Scroll down further on the reply section there is a button for Manage attachments in the Additional options section. There is also a small icon at the top that looks like a paperclip

[xkeowner]

Please provide a link to this information that the virus can pass through a mask when the droplets/aerosols have evaporated.

I have posted a video several times on this forum that demonstrates how well a single layer of T Shirt material blocks droplets from spraying onto a mirror when water is spritzed on the fabric in front of a mirror. NO water droplets get through and the mirror stays perfectly dry. If there are virus in those droplets. you are saying that the virus will proceed through the fabric all by itself? Really? I would honestly like to know if this can happen.

Logically, if the virus is on the outside of the mask after the droplet has completely evaporated, how in the world does the virus make its way to the other side of the fabric or paper mask? Think about that. Does the virus have feet? I honestly don't think this is possible and I have not read any articles that claim this is a possibility.

We are supposed to be very careful when handling our masks when removing them so not to contaminate our hands. Personally, I take off my mask by the ear loops and reach behind my ear to remove the mask. Another safety practice people should be doing after they remove their masks is to either sanitize their hands or wash their hands with soap and water. That may be the reason we sometimes see people driving in their cars, by themselves, with a mask on. They do not want to contaminate their hands.

Again, please provide a link that states the virus can pass through a mask (not N95) after the droplets/aerosols have evaporated. Thanks.

At no time did I say they had evaporated. They break down leaving a damp mask with smaller particles which then can pass through the mask. Basic physics.

[Michread]

The FDA will assure us that the vaccine is safe. I will believe them. I've never died of a vaccine before and I figure I will survive this one too.

Achieving herd immunity without a vaccine will find us with many many more deaths. That is NOT the way to go.

I rather get the flu than become like the walking dead who have Alzheimer’s.

Aluminum Exposure Again Linked to Alzheimer's Disease | Technology Networks (https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/aluminum-exposure-again-linked-to-alzheimers-disease-329670)

[Velvet]

I rather get the flu than become like the walking dead who have Alzheimer’s.

Aluminum Exposure Again Linked to Alzheimer's Disease | Technology Networks (https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/aluminum-exposure-again-linked-to-alzheimers-disease-329670)

Are we sure they are not adding arsenic into the vaccine too? Do we know all the ingredients of any of the future vaccines? Or are we just trying to frighten ourselves?

[oldtimes]

I rather get the flu than become like the walking dead who have Alzheimer’s.

Aluminum Exposure Again Linked to Alzheimer's Disease | Technology Networks (https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/aluminum-exposure-again-linked-to-alzheimers-disease-329670)

There are also links to Covid and brain damage.
Brain Scans Show a Whole Spectrum of COVID-19 Abnormalities We Can't Fully Explain (https://www.sciencealert.com/how-covid-disturbs-brain-waves)

[gatorbill1]

If we could pass a law allowing euthanasia we could maybe please all those who want herd immunity and don't want to wear a mask.
We could thin the herd quickly.

[coffeebean]

Scroll down further on the reply section there is a button for Manage attachments in the Additional options section. There is also a small icon at the top that looks like a paperclip

I just posted a photo of a picture in my photo library on my computer. How do I post a photo from the internet? What I usually do (such as posting photos and video clips in email) is copy and paste into the email. Can I do that on this forum or must I select a photo from my photo library?
Thanks

So sorry for hijacking the thread.

[coffeebean]

At no time did I say they had evaporated. They break down leaving a damp mask with smaller particles which then can pass through the mask. Basic physics.

I re-read your post and I see that you did not mention the word "evaporate". However, I still do not think it is possible for the virus to penetrate the mask unless the mask becomes very wet from wearing it for a long time and that is a very strong maybe.

That is not something that we have been warned about, as far as I know. I have not heard any of the doctors warning us about the virus penetrating a mask after it becomes moist. Have I missed something? Basic physics means nothing to me as far as this is concerned.

I would like to hear from the experts that we must remove a moist mask so the virus does not penetrate the fabric or paper from the outside of the mask.

[oldtimes]

I just posted a photo of a picture in my photo library on my computer. How do I post a photo from the internet? What I usually do (such as posting photos and video clips in email) is copy and paste into the email. Can I do that on this forum or must I select a photo from my photo library?
Thanks

So sorry for hijacking the thread.

To my knowledge you have to first save it to your computer unless you can post a link to the picture. Copy and paste does not work.

[Velvet]

What they teach in kindergarten, “Sticks (Covid) and stones may break my bones, but words will never break me. But names will never harm me.” :)

[coffeebean]

To my knowledge you have to first save it to your computer unless you can post a link to the picture. Copy and paste does not work.
That is what I have figured. Thank you for your help.

[Chi-Town]

Without a vaccine and assuming that immunity is a lifetime 70% of the population will need to be infected and survive to achieve herd immunity. So until we get to the 200 million level let's hope for an effective vaccine.

[Two Bills]

Recent research has shown that immuity is active for months, as apposed to a longer time span, for those who survive Covid.


Covid: Antibodies '''fall rapidly after infection''' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54696873)

[Dgizzi]

The FDA will assure us that the vaccine is safe. I will believe them. I've never died of a vaccine before and I figure I will survive this one too.

Achieving herd immunity without a vaccine will find us with many many more deaths. That is NOT the way to go.
YES IT IS. When I started working from home 5 yrs ago, I thought, great I won’t get sick as much!! WRONG!! Since I was not around people all the time, my immune system weakened! I had several doctors tell me this. They said at any age if you are not around people a lot and then go out, you will get sick more. And it’s true!!

[Dgizzi]

Another thread closed before I could respond to a comment. I'm getting "Thread Closed" fatigue........

Originally posted by oneclickplus..........
"You can't get "herd immunity" without infecting the herd. Take OFF your mask and go about your life. If you're worried about other people living free without a mask - then stay home."

We will achieve herd immunity SAFELY when enough people globally are inoculated with a safe and effective vaccine. I can only hope that day will come while I'm still alive and can once again enjoy life as it was pre-pandemic.

In the mean time, I will wear my mask when in public indoors all the time and outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. The exception to wearing a mask indoors is when dining in a restaurant. Hubby and I will not go to any restaurant that does not socially distance their patrons. That is a choice hubby and I have made for ourselves. We are doing everything we can to stay safe yet still enjoy life. It can be done. No, we do not want to stay home.
I started working from home 5yrs ago. I thought great, I won’t catch colds as much. WRONG, I was still catching s colds and worse. Went to my doctor and he said, you are getting more sick with colds because you are not around people. Your immune system weakens. I couldn’t believe it, but it does happen. The more you stay away from people the more your immune system will weaken. And that happens with older people because they go out less. We have been running around in the villages, in the restaurants and bars since they opened and like all the others have not gotten sick. And I still work from home and honestly will not go out everyday or night just cause I work and I still have not gotten sick. My guy is 69 and a few health issues. Stay healthy and do what’s best for you

[Worldseries27]

[quote=oldtimes;1853993]what is your objective with all these threads? Do you think you are going to change anyone’s mind? It doesn’t matter how right or wrong you are people are still going to do what they want.[/quote
this thread is the definition of panic. Do the best you can to protect yourselves but understand this.
We are not going to live forever. make peace with that

session over

[Malsua]

Recent research has shown that immuity is active for months, as apposed to a longer time span, for those who survive Covid.


Covid: Antibodies '''fall rapidly after infection''' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54696873)

B cell antibodies are only part of the story. There is a robust T-cell response in a significant number of people. In fact studies have shown that prior exposure to certain coronavirus colds has led to very robust t-cell response. It is this mechanism which is most likely the explanation behind "asymptomatic" cases. These cases really probably aren't cases at all. They are positive tests. The reason behind the positive test is that Tcells like macrophages and killer tcells are destroying the virus and what the PCR test is detecting is viral debris.

Pre-symptomatic cases need to be differentiated from asymptomatic. Pre-symptomatic simply means you're not exhibiting symptoms of covid-19 yet. Asymptomatic means you probably never got the disease, you simply have the sars-cov-2 virus present in your system, even if just viral debris. Killer t-cells, inject perforin into cells infected with virus, causing them to swell, eventually they pop and bits and piece float around until housekeeping clears it out. Macrophages are like the blob of your immune system, surround a cell completely and dissolving it. There are more tcells, but both of these cells leave PCR test detectable bits of virus floating around for a while.

[Scott O]

Another thread closed before I could respond to a comment. I'm getting "Thread Closed" fatigue........

Originally posted by oneclickplus..........
"You can't get "herd immunity" without infecting the herd. Take OFF your mask and go about your life. If you're worried about other people living free without a mask - then stay home."

We will achieve herd immunity SAFELY when enough people globally are inoculated with a safe and effective vaccine. I can only hope that day will come while I'm still alive and can once again enjoy life as it was pre-pandemic.

In the mean time, I will wear my mask when in public indoors all the time and outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. The exception to wearing a mask indoors is when dining in a restaurant. Hubby and I will not go to any restaurant that does not socially distance their patrons. That is a choice hubby and I have made for ourselves. We are doing everything we can to stay safe yet still enjoy life. It can be done. No, we do not want to stay home.
And your point? We have heard everyone’s choice since all of this...it’s a personal matter and choose what makes you comfortable...I really don’t care...it’s still a free country, I’d like it to stay that way...remember this when you vote..

[Girlcopper]

With herd immunity you don’t get a shot of mercury and aluminum. Vaccines contain known toxins that in any other ingest able, and /or injected form are banned.
Are you serious? Guess Ill sit home and wait to die from all the years of vaccines Ive had. Thanks for the heads up

[jebartle]

If click it or ticket is ok, why not mask it or casket.

[scottvs1961]

YES IT IS. When I started working from home 5 yrs ago, I thought, great I won’t get sick as much!! WRONG!! Since I was not around people all the time, my immune system weakened! I had several doctors tell me this. They said at any age if you are not around people a lot and then go out, you will get sick more. And it’s true!!

Only 5 years? Excuse me but I have worked from home more more than 20 years. I very seldom get sick. I can’t tell you the last time I was truly sick even with a cold. It clearly must be your metabolism. If what you say is true, I would need to be a total hermit and avoid all people. Trying to make such a broad blanket statement is just plain ridiculous.

[Scott O]

Here is another comment I would like to reply to (from that CLOSED thread).......

sooziesoul stated:
"I’m 40 years in Healthcare and I KNOW what masks can and can’t do. Masks do NOT "contain a virus. Particulates of a virus are so small that they pass right through!"

Really? 40 years in healthcare? Have you heard of "Droplet Precations"?

The virus does not travel on its own. The virus is contained in droplets and/or aerosols which are larger than the virus particles. There is no respiratory virus that will eject itself from the body all by itself. Those teeny tiny virus particles need a mode of transmission. That mode of transmission is droplets and aerosols.
And your point? We have heard everyone’s choice since all of this...it’s a personal matter and choose what makes you comfortable...I really don’t care...it’s still a free country, I’d like it to stay that way...remember this when you vote..

[Scott O]

There are also links to Covid and brain damage.
Brain Scans Show a Whole Spectrum of COVID-19 Abnormalities We Can't Fully Explain (https://www.sciencealert.com/how-covid-disturbs-brain-waves)
You know you get up every day and there is a plethora of diseases, cancers, illnesses and accidents that can all contribute to anyone’s demise! Again, what’s your point?... You can get up every day and live your life like it’s your last and enjoy and be smart...or you can sit around and and drain yourself mentally and be miserable...it’s your choice, don’t inflict it on others...the hamster wheel keeps going around for some...try jumping off for a change...

[NCbear]

Herd immunity in humans has NEVER been achieved. Read the science. Even with less lethal pandemics in the past...NEVER. It’s a fantasy for us to think that is our salvation. Listen to SCIENTISTS. Not Politicians!!!!!

[biker1]

Not true. Mumps, measles, chicken pox, and polio are often cited examples of diseases eradicated through herd immunity. Herd immunity is often achieved via vaccines.

Herd immunity in humans has NEVER been achieved. Read the science. Even with less lethal pandemics in the past...NEVER. It’s a fantasy for us to think that is our salvation. Listen to SCIENTISTS. Not Politicians!!!!!

[merrymini]

If we could pass a law allowing euthanasia we could maybe please all those who want herd immunity and don't want to wear a mask.
We could thin the herd quickly.

Cdc studies, if you want to believe them, indicate that 85 percent of people who caught covid were masks wearers and only 4 percent never wore a mask. As far as brain damage, it is apparent that a great many people suffer from that even thought they never had the disease, including those who propose euthanasia as a solution.

[JOLIVERIO]

Don’t believe in wearing a mask. Next time you have to go to the hospital, tell the Doctor that he/she doesn’t have to wear a mask. You are willing to take a chance on getting an infection. Also, forget about washing hands.

[oldtimes]

You know you get up every day and there is a plethora of diseases, cancers, illnesses and accidents that can all contribute to anyone’s demise! Again, what’s your point?... You can get up every day and live your life like it’s your last and enjoy and be smart...or you can sit around and and drain yourself mentally and be miserable...it’s your choice, don’t inflict it on others...the hamster wheel keeps going around for some...try jumping off for a change...

My point was that this person was just as likely to get brain damage from Covid as from the vaccine. I actually agree with you that nothing is completely safe.

[sktb888]

How is Herd Immunity Achieved at Scale? | Banner Health (https://www.bannerhealth.com/healthcareblog/teach-me/what-is-herd-immunity#:~:text=With%20no%20vaccine%2C%20there,ev en%20more%20unintended%20consequences).

[Dana1963]

Another thread closed before I could respond to a comment. I'm getting "Thread Closed" fatigue........

Originally posted by oneclickplus..........
"You can't get "herd immunity" without infecting the herd. Take OFF your mask and go about your life. If you're worried about other people living free without a mask - then stay home."

We will achieve herd immunity SAFELY when enough people globally are inoculated with a safe and effective vaccine. I can only hope that day will come while I'm still alive and can once again enjoy life as it was pre-pandemic.

In the mean time, I will wear my mask when in public indoors all the time and outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. The exception to wearing a mask indoors is when dining in a restaurant. Hubby and I will not go to any restaurant that does not socially distance their patrons. That is a choice hubby and I have made for ourselves. We are doing everything we can to stay safe yet still enjoy life. It can be done. No, we do not want to stay home.
Televangelist Kenneth Copeland declares that ***** is now immune to COVID-19, which is evidence that Christians are immune to the virus.

[FromNY]

Excellent article. Well worth the read.Educate yourself before making decisions.

[Velvet]

I started working from home 5yrs ago. I thought great, I won’t catch colds as much. WRONG, I was still catching s colds and worse. Went to my doctor and he said, you are getting more sick with colds because you are not around people. Your immune system weakens. I couldn’t believe it, but it does happen. The more you stay away from people the more your immune system will weaken. And that happens with older people because they go out less. We have been running around in the villages, in the restaurants and bars since they opened and like all the others have not gotten sick. And I still work from home and honestly will not go out everyday or night just cause I work and I still have not gotten sick. My guy is 69 and a few health issues. Stay healthy and do what’s best for you

Depends what’s causing your sickness. If it’s cancer or something like that I believe you, but if it is bacteria or virus I don’t think so. Contagious illness like the flu, cold, measles etc are .... well contagious. You get it from people.

Older people have less immunity. In Canada, for example, 80% of all Covid deaths occurred among long term residents. They were always among people, tell your doctor.

[Dana1963]

Cdc studies, if you want to believe them, indicate that 85 percent of people who caught covid were masks wearers and only 4 percent never wore a mask. As far as brain damage, it is apparent that a great many people suffer from that even thought they never had the disease, including those who propose euthanasia as a solution.
We can tell you watch Tucker, Fact check: Trump falsely claims that CDC found that 85% of people who wear masks get the coronavirus - CNNPolitics (https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/16/politics/fact-check-trump-cdc-masks-85-percent/index.html)
You are GULLIBLE

[cherylncliff]

With herd immunity you don’t get a shot of mercury and aluminum. Vaccines contain known toxins that in any other ingest able, and /or injected form are banned.

Vaccines do NOT contain mercury or aluminum. Stop getting your science from politicians and go read the literature!

[kendi]

Another thread closed before I could respond to a comment. I'm getting "Thread Closed" fatigue........

Originally posted by oneclickplus..........
"You can't get "herd immunity" without infecting the herd. Take OFF your mask and go about your life. If you're worried about other people living free without a mask - then stay home."

We will achieve herd immunity SAFELY when enough people globally are inoculated with a safe and effective vaccine. I can only hope that day will come while I'm still alive and can once again enjoy life as it was pre-pandemic.

In the mean time, I will wear my mask when in public indoors all the time and outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. The exception to wearing a mask indoors is when dining in a restaurant. Hubby and I will not go to any restaurant that does not socially distance their patrons. That is a choice hubby and I have made for ourselves. We are doing everything we can to stay safe yet still enjoy life. It can be done. No, we do not want to stay home.

Not sure why you think we need to know this. Thankful for closed mask and COVID threads.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

YES IT IS. When I started working from home 5 yrs ago, I thought, great I won’t get sick as much!! WRONG!! Since I was not around people all the time, my immune system weakened! I had several doctors tell me this. They said at any age if you are not around people a lot and then go out, you will get sick more. And it’s true!!

That’s one theory. Here’s another that I offer to anyone interested. I wish you all the best.

Excerpt from following article: “Poor emotional health can weaken your body’s immune system. This makes you more likely to get colds and other infections during emotionally difficult times.”

Mind/Body Connection: How Emotions Affect Health (https://familydoctor.org/mindbody-connection-how-your-emotions-affect-your-health/)

[nick demis]

I keep hoping one person will actually listen and open their mind. The information I pass on in these threads is very much available to anyone. I believe in the science and scientists.

I've heard the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. I guess, that is what I'm up against. I just keep plugging along and hope one person will open their minds to science that has been proven.

Which science? There are many scientist on both sides.

[sktb888]

Another thread closed before I could respond to a comment. I'm getting "Thread Closed" fatigue........

Originally posted by oneclickplus..........
"You can't get "herd immunity" without infecting the herd. Take OFF your mask and go about your life. If you're worried about other people living free without a mask - then stay home."

We will achieve herd immunity SAFELY when enough people globally are inoculated with a safe and effective vaccine. I can only hope that day will come while I'm still alive and can once again enjoy life as it was pre-pandemic.

In the mean time, I will wear my mask when in public indoors all the time and outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. The exception to wearing a mask indoors is when dining in a restaurant. Hubby and I will not go to any restaurant that does not socially distance their patrons. That is a choice hubby and I have made for ourselves. We are doing everything we can to stay safe yet still enjoy life. It can be done. No, we do not want to stay home.
'Herd Immunity" and "mask wearing" have been made political subjects and statements. Doesn't anyone FACT CHECK???? Come on people....do a little research with the fact checking venues of your choice to sort out the manipulating lies that have divided our country. And above all please be kind to each other. Division is another political lie. We are one people...we'd all better start embracing our differences and respecting each other. We can plainly see how the alternative has worked out for us...and it's NOT WORKING for anyone.

[BarryD]

Herd immunity may or may not ever come. Herd immunity has never occurred for the flu. The virus keeps mutating, immunity fades. The vaccine last year was only around 45% effective. So don't bet your life on herd immunity.

Some good news is that a lower percentage of people are dying of COVID-19 as doctors learn more about how to treat patients who have it. And it will continue to get better.

In the meantime, do everything you can to avoid getting it or giving it to others (masks, distancing, hand washing, just like the professionals are saying).

[LiverpoolWalrus]

'Herd Immunity" and "mask wearing" have been made political subjects and statements. Doesn't anyone FACT CHECK???? Come on people....do a little research with the fact checking venues of your choice to sort out the manipulating lies that have divided our country. And above all please be kind to each other. Division is another political lie. We are one people...we'd all better start embracing our differences and respecting each other. We can plainly see how the alternative has worked out for us...and it's NOT WORKING for anyone.

I’m with you that we are one and we all have more in common than we have differences. But from what I understand, mask wearing is physiological - not political - in that it helps prevent transmission of the virus. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it. I’d like to abandon my mask too!

[jimjamuser]

With herd immunity you don’t get a shot of mercury and aluminum. Vaccines contain known toxins that in any other ingest able, and /or injected form are banned.
That is way anti-science! I hope that very few people believe that - or soon this country will be forcing women to wear bonnets and blinders when out in public. The modern world would crumble back to the dark ages. Please say that it isn't so!

[kenoc7]

Yes, you are right, you get a chance to die a painful, suffocating, lonely death instead. Yeah for herd immunity!
Listen to the science, not the wacky anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists

[Dana1963]

Did you know gullible and gullable are not in the dictionary?
GULLIBLE | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gullible)

[Velvet]

Listen to the science, not the wacky anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists

My background is chemical engineering, you bet I listen to science! I was being sarcastic about herd immunity without a vaccine, hope it was obvious.

[sktb888]

I’m with you that we are one and we all have more in common than we have differences. But from what I understand, mask wearing is physiological - not political - in that it helps prevent transmission of the virus. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it. I’d like to abandon my mask too!
Thanks for your reply. :)

Masks definitely help stop the spread! Not my opinion but scientific fact. That is why I am imploring people to FACT CHECK with reputable platforms that will give you truth on these topics and anything else that needs investigating.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

[
Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus View Post
Did you know gullible and gullable are not in the dictionary?

QUOTE=Dana1963;1854485]GULLIBLE | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gullible)[/QUOTE]

Just wonderin’ Dana ... you thought I was serious?

[Freeda]

Another thread closed before I could respond to a comment. I'm getting "Thread Closed" fatigue........

Originally posted by oneclickplus..........
"You can't get "herd immunity" without infecting the herd. Take OFF your mask and go about your life. If you're worried about other people living free without a mask - then stay home."

We will achieve herd immunity SAFELY when enough people globally are inoculated with a safe and effective vaccine. I can only hope that day will come while I'm still alive and can once again enjoy life as it was pre-pandemic.

In the mean time, I will wear my mask when in public indoors all the time and outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. The exception to wearing a mask indoors is when dining in a restaurant. Hubby and I will not go to any restaurant that does not socially distance their patrons. That is a choice hubby and I have made for ourselves. We are doing everything we can to stay safe yet still enjoy life. It can be done. No, we do not want to stay home.

Here is a outline of information concerning masks from the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons' website.

Mask Facts - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/)

[donassaid]

"Proven science"? According to tge CDC, 84% of all those who have tested positive wore a mask most of the time (14%) or all the time (70%). So where is the science behind wearing a mask? If "not wearing" a mask is putting others in jeopardy from your spreading the virus, why doesn't wearing a mask protect you from getting the virus? And why have 600,000 healthcare workers wearing the N95 mask ( most sophisticated mask available), tested positive for the virus? Wearing a mask is nothing more than a placebo that gives one a false sense of security, makes you feel better about being more responsible while forcing you to breathe in your own carbon dioxide and lowering your own immunity to the virus and other germs. So, if you want to wear a mask and pretend it is doing some good, knock yourself out. While you are at it, pretend that you see me wearing a mask as well and "lighten up).

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Masks definitely help stop the spread! Not my opinion but scientific fact.

Oh, my bad. When you said this:

"'Herd Immunity" and "mask wearing" have been made political...",

I thought you were coming down on the side of the naysayers. You'd think after all these years I'd know about that word "assume" by now!

One thing I like about this forum is whenever anyone makes a controversial claim, someone will always chime in and ask for sources. (I'm still waiting for the poster who claimed mask wearing causes pleurisy the other day to post a citation.)

So I try to be proactive and always post a source, both to lend credence to what I'm saying and also beat them to the punch.

And I agree with you!
COVID-19: How much protection do face masks offer? - Mayo Clinic (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449)

[Lindsyburnsy]

Wow, all this time surgeons have been wearing masks; maybe they just don't want anybody knowing their identity?

[coffeebean]

And your point? We have heard everyone’s choice since all of this...it’s a personal matter and choose what makes you comfortable...I really don’t care...it’s still a free country, I’d like it to stay that way...remember this when you vote..

My point?.........
This is not a personal matter to choose not to wear a mask. It is a matter of public health and safety. People all over the world are wearing masks, listening to experts and scientists and yet, people here in America do not want to do their part. It is not a personal choice to choose to infect another person with what could possibly be a deadly virus. I respectfully disagree with your stance on this matter.

Agree with you that The United States is a free country but people still must abide by laws and rules. The laws may be enforced by government then there are rules that are enforced by local establishments. I don't see anyone walking into a public building bare naked.

If you are not able to walk into an establishment bare naked, is that an infringement on your freedom? Just wondering.

[coffeebean]

Which science? There are many scientist on both sides.

I am a huge proponent of wearing a face covering in addition to social distancing. I believe in the science which has demonstrated that these measures with the addition of frequent hand washing and/or hand sanitizing DOES slow the spread of the virus. That is the science I was referring to.

[coffeebean]

Thanks for your reply. :)

Masks definitely help stop the spread! Not my opinion but scientific fact. That is why I am imploring people to FACT CHECK with reputable platforms that will give you truth on these topics and anything else that needs investigating.

This is not a fact check of sorts but it certainly does give an extremely convincing demonstration how masks do slow the spread of a virus. THIS VIDEO IS A MUST WATCH.......

How Well Do Masks Work? (Schlieren Imaging In Slow Motion!) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/0Tp0zB904Mc)

[coffeebean]

Here is a outline of information concerning masks from the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons' website.

Mask Facts - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/)

Sorry, I believe something I can SEE. The video with the infrared camera I just posted in my previous post trumps this information that you posted.

[coffeebean]

"Proven science"? According to tge CDC, 84% of all those who have tested positive wore a mask most of the time (14%) or all the time (70%). So where is the science behind wearing a mask? If "not wearing" a mask is putting others in jeopardy from your spreading the virus, why doesn't wearing a mask protect you from getting the virus? And why have 600,000 healthcare workers wearing the N95 mask ( most sophisticated mask available), tested positive for the virus? Wearing a mask is nothing more than a placebo that gives one a false sense of security, makes you feel better about being more responsible while forcing you to breathe in your own carbon dioxide and lowering your own immunity to the virus and other germs. So, if you want to wear a mask and pretend it is doing some good, knock yourself out. While you are at it, pretend that you see me wearing a mask as well and "lighten up).

First of all, the information about 84% of mask wearers contracted Covid has been fact checked and that information is NOT TRUE. Someone already posted a link to that fact check from CNN. See in a previous post.

Secondly, healthcare workers are dealing with Covid positive patients all day long. They are dealing with procedures, such as intubation, that have all sorts of Covid containing "stuff" flying at them. Even N95 masks leave the healthcare workers 5% vulnerable to Covid. Healthcare workers are in a very compromised environment. Anyone who refuses to wear a mask should think of the jeopardy they put health care workers in. Our hospitals are becoming overwhelmed and we should be doing everything possible from that becoming a reality right here in our neighborhood. Wear a mask and do your part.

[Michread]

Vaccines do NOT contain mercury or aluminum. Stop getting your science from politicians and go read the literature!

Which literature?

Here is the information from the CDC on adjuvants and preservatives used in vaccines which are aluminum and ethyl based mercury.

Adjuvants and Vaccines | Vaccine Safety | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html)

Thimerosal in Flu Vaccine | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/thimerosal.htm)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I rather get the flu than become like the walking dead who have Alzheimer’s.

Aluminum Exposure Again Linked to Alzheimer's Disease | Technology Networks (https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/aluminum-exposure-again-linked-to-alzheimers-disease-329670)

You are exposed to more aluminum just breathing the air, thanks to geo-engineering, than you will ever be with vaccines, or pots or pans.

Also, correlation does not equal causation. A link - is correlation. You learn this in grade-school chemistry, this doesn't require extraordinary intelligence or education to know.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Which science? There are many scientist on both sides.

On both sides of what? Do you even understand that phrase? That is politics talk. It's gobbledigook, and utter horsefeathers.

There is science - and there is anti-science. There are no scientists on the anti-science "side." There are pretenders, frauds, fakes, swindlers, documented shills, corporate sell-outs.

The scientists are on the side of science.

[GoPacers]

I rather get the flu than become like the walking dead who have Alzheimer’s.

Aluminum Exposure Again Linked to Alzheimer's Disease | Technology Networks (https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/aluminum-exposure-again-linked-to-alzheimers-disease-329670)

You should try and read a bit more on the use of adjuvants in vaccines. I'm not disagreeing with the article you reference that Al may be present in AD patients but making the "leap" that vaccines and the use of Al as an adjuvant is the source of that Al is not proven scientifically - by anyone. In fact, much of the research suggests otherwise. So many people misunderstand correlation and causation and then try to associate that lack of understanding with their view of the world.

Adjuvants and Vaccines | Vaccine Safety | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html#:~:text=Aluminum%2Dcontaining%20adj uvants%20are%20vaccine,air%2C%20food%2C%20and%20wa ter).

Rephrasing your statement: "I'd rather die from the flu at 55 than live to 80 and suffer from Alzheimer’s."

LOTS of people do in fact die from flu each year. I guess if you're not one of them then all is good, right?

[Michread]

You are exposed to more aluminum just breathing the air, thanks to geo-engineering, than you will ever be with vaccines, or pots or pans.

Also, correlation does not equal causation. A link - is correlation. You learn this in grade-school chemistry, this doesn't require extraordinary intelligence or education to know.

That’s the same argument the tobacco industry used for decades about smoking cigarettes and lung/respiratory diseases. :faint:

[LiverpoolWalrus]

On both sides of what? Do you even understand that phrase? That is politics talk. It's gobbledigook, and utter horsefeathers.

There is science - and there is anti-science. There are no scientists on the anti-science "side." There are pretenders, frauds, fakes, swindlers, documented shills, corporate sell-outs.

The scientists are on the side of science.

While I admire your conviction and partly agree, science, it must be said, is subject to interpretation. As such, disagreement among scientists is not at all unusual.

What It Means When Scientists Disagree - Scientific American Blog Network (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/what-it-means-when-scientists-disagree/)

[LiverpoolWalrus]

I rather get the flu than become like the walking dead who have Alzheimer’s.



Excerpt: “A new study has found that increasing symptoms of anxiety and depression may be linked to an increase in beta-amyloid proteins, a hallmark characteristic of Alzheimer’s disease.”

Anxiety Disorders Could Lead to Alzheimer'''s (https://www.alzheimers.net/anxiety-disorders-could-lead-to-alzheimers)

And we Villagers, if we choose, can stay ahead of the curve by taking advantage of all the opportunities at our disposal right here to stay happy and healthy. If we make the choice.

Sure things have slowed down, but take precautions and get out there and LIVE!

[Byte1]

I don't reject what you are saying. I just refuse to allow YOUR "science" to stop me from living my life. I wear a mask if I feel like wearing one, and think it is appropriate. I refuse to run amok in mass hysteria that some of you seem to perpetuate. If you do not like it, then don't come near me. After all, if you stay your safe distance you have no fear, right? Trying to Mask shame me does not work. Since reading all these posts on the subject, I am less inclined to feel threatened by the virus. You call it science and I do not disagree with you. However, I call it mass hysteria. If you feel the mask keeps you safe, then by all means, wear one. Wear a military gas mask to be really sure that you are safe. Hey, wear a hazmat suit. Just stay away from me, whether you have a mask on or not. Mass hysteria is more contagious than the COVID.

[Velvet]

While I admire your conviction and partly agree, science, it must be said, is subject to interpretation. As such, disagreement among scientists is not at all unusual.

What It Means When Scientists Disagree - Scientific American Blog Network (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/what-it-means-when-scientists-disagree/)

Isn’t that is how we progress? Over time and effort we know more and more and it is through disagreement that we move forwards. (I used probit from biology to analyse economic events, some were very sceptical.) But what is the alternative to science, fairytales?

[coffeebean]

I don't reject what you are saying. I just refuse to allow YOUR "science" to stop me from living my life. I wear a mask if I feel like wearing one, and think it is appropriate. I refuse to run amok in mass hysteria that some of you seem to perpetuate. If you do not like it, then don't come near me. After all, if you stay your safe distance you have no fear, right? Trying to Mask shame me does not work. Since reading all these posts on the subject, I am less inclined to feel threatened by the virus. You call it science and I do not disagree with you. However, I call it mass hysteria. If you feel the mask keeps you safe, then by all means, wear one. Wear a military gas mask to be really sure that you are safe. Hey, wear a hazmat suit. Just stay away from me, whether you have a mask on or not. Mass hysteria is more contagious than the COVID.

Actually, when I wear a mask, I'm protecting YOU, not me. I thought for sure, by now you would be aware of that. The more people that wear masks to protect others, the safer we all will be.

This pandemic is raging in our country, despite that there are those that say otherwise. How do I know? There are hospitals in the good old USA that are reaching or are at capacity. They are setting up satellite hospital beds in parking lots for Covid patients. That is just sad. I can not believe that is happening in our country.

Wear a mask.
Social distance.
Wash hands frequently.
Don't touch your face with unwashed hands.

Simple stuff we all should be doing to slow the spread of this virus until a vaccine can be distributed to the general population.

[roscoguy]

Which literature?

Here is the information from the CDC on adjuvants and preservatives used in vaccines which are aluminum and ethyl based mercury.

Adjuvants and Vaccines | Vaccine Safety | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html)

Thimerosal in Flu Vaccine | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/thimerosal.htm)

Did you actually take the time to read the reports that you linked, or stop when you got to the scary parts?

From the first link above: "Aluminum salts, such as aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and aluminum potassium sulfate have been used safely in vaccines for more than 70 years." Plus this: "Aluminum is one of the most common metals found in nature and is present in air, food, and water. Scientific research has shown the amount of aluminum exposure in people who follow the recommended vaccine schedule is low and is not readily absorbed by the body." It also explains what adjuvants such as the various aluminum salts are & why they are added to vaccines.

And from your second link: "Thimerosal use in vaccines and other medical products has a record of being very safe. Data from many studies show no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines."

Much less frightening, don't you agree?

[Byte1]

Actually, when I wear a mask, I'm protecting YOU, not me. I thought for sure, by now you would be aware of that. The more people that wear masks to protect others, the safer we all will be.

This pandemic is raging in our country, despite that there are those that say otherwise. How do I know? There are hospitals in the good old USA that are reaching or are at capacity. They are setting up satellite hospital beds in parking lots for Covid patients. That is just sad. I can not believe that is happening in our country.

Wear a mask.
Social distance.
Wash hands frequently.
Don't touch your face with unwashed hands.

Simple stuff we all should be doing to slow the spread of this virus until a vaccine can be distributed to the general population.

Like I said, I don't disagree. I just won't become a member of the mass hysteria club. I do what is right according to what I believe, not because it makes someone else happy. I am not responsible for you (no offense meant) so just don't put yourself in harms way and we will both get along favorably. If I am out and about, it is because I do not feel there is any danger of my becoming infected and carrying it home to my spouse. I feel that if you (generalizing) fear exposure, then you should take the proper precautions and not rely on others to "protect" you. Sorry if that offends others, but if one wishes to live foolishly and take chances with their own lives, it's not up to me to set them straight or bend over backward to protect them. Time for the weak to put on adult pants and take responsibility for their own lives. Not rely on others or the gov to coddle them. I have no intention of protecting the foolish. Stay away from me whether I am wearing a mask or not.
By the way, I don't wear sun screen when I am working in the yard, either. I live dangerously.

[Velvet]

So basically what I hear is; “I have the right of way and if you think you’re going to get run over, you better get out of my way!”

As a person put it, who just buried his mother from Covid, “We have lost our humanity.”

[Lindsyburnsy]

Next time you need surgery be sure to let the operating room staff and the surgeon know there is no need for them to wear masks while you have your hip replaced or have Heart surgery. 😂

[Bay Kid]

Did you actually take the time to read the reports that you linked, or stop when you got to the scary parts?

From the first link above: "Aluminum salts, such as aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and aluminum potassium sulfate have been used safely in vaccines for more than 70 years." Plus this: "Aluminum is one of the most common metals found in nature and is present in air, food, and water. Scientific research has shown the amount of aluminum exposure in people who follow the recommended vaccine schedule is low and is not readily absorbed by the body." It also explains what adjuvants such as the various aluminum salts are & why they are added to vaccines.

And from your second link: "Thimerosal use in vaccines and other medical products has a record of being very safe. Data from many studies show no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines."

Much less frightening, don't you agree?

Another good reason to eat more oysters!

[Byte1]

So basically what I hear is; “I have the right of way and if you think you’re going to get run over, you better get out of my way!”

As a person put it, who just buried his mother from Covid, “We have lost our humanity.”

Not at all. You are comparing two different thoughts.
You have the right to wear a mask. You have no right to demand others wear a mask. If you feel that this is not sufficient, then you should avoid those that you feel are putting you in danger. If I have the right of way on a street, I still have to avoid hitting a pedestrian. However, if I am driving down the street and a pedestrian throws themselves in front of me, I am not at fault for running over that pedestrian. It was that person's fault for expecting me to be able to stop.
On the other hand, "losing humanity" has nothing to do with that subject of being subjected to others' demands. I have a great deal of humanity and will always assist the needy. However, I am not subject to a demand to assist the needy. Humanity is not be a slave to other's whims. Humanity is based on charity.
There seems to be a view by half of our country that believes that the haves must assist the have nots. If a person is forced to do something against one's will, it no longer becomes charity; it becomes a tax or law.
Therefore, by using the premise that humanity is based on the whims of others, those that must wear a mask SHOULD isolate themselves from those that do not. You should and must feel charitable towards those you do not agree with as being equal recipients of your charity as you deem must share their charity with you. That is "humanity."
So, stay away from me when I am not wearing my mask and I will keep my distance from you when you deem it necessary to wear a mask. But, do not presume to limit my mobility based on your presumption that you have the right of way and I do not.
Humanity is not based upon your definition of what others must do for you.

[Justus]

Clearly, no one who believes masks are the panacea, and herd immunity is the product of ignorance, has not read the Great Barrington Declaration, available on-line, signed by over 44,000 Medical Doctors and Medical Scientists worldwide.

[Gulfcoast]

I love my kids, I adore my husband, I love my elderly parents. I do not believe that mask wearing helps them and I do feel that mask wearing harms our retail/food service/pharmacy employees and makes them more susceptible to infection (non covid). It is time to do away with masks.

[8notes]

With herd immunity you don’t get a shot of mercury and aluminum. Vaccines contain known toxins that in any other ingest able, and /or injected form are banned.

Scientific studies have shown this to be false.

[8notes]

Clearly, no one who believes masks are the panacea, and herd immunity is the product of ignorance, has not read the Great Barrington Declaration, available on-line, signed by over 44,000 Medical Doctors and Medical Scientists worldwide.

For those not familiar with the Barrington Declaration, it is controversial, was drafted last month by three public health scientists who were hosted by the American Institute for Economic Research.

The basic assumptions in the declaration are that children and younger adults have a much lower risk of serious health consequences from COVID-19; herd immunity can be achieved by allowing such lower-risk populations to become infected and thereby achieve natural resistance; older and higher-risk populations should and can be protected from community transmission; and the negative consequences of a shutdown outweigh the negative consequences that would ensue from following this "Focused Protection" approach.

Each of these assumptions is flawed or untested. We don't know what the long term effects of Covid are on young children. It is becoming clear that herd immunity can only be achieved with a vaccine as it appears antibodies drop after several months in previous Covid positive people, making them susceptible to additional infections. And realistically, how can we protect old people? The simple answer is getting people to wear masks and social distance, but taking a look at recent rallies, and even riding around the Square at Sumter landing, it is apparent that masks don't matter to a lot of people. And it is pretty tough to control the interaction of young children and their high risk grandparents. Lastly, no one is advocating a complete lock down. What is being advocated is masks, social distancing, and contact tracing to control the disease and prevent lockdowns from being necessary.The bottom line, major scientific organizations are denouncing the Barrington Declaration, calling it life-threatening and practically impossible. Dr. Fauci called it nonsense.

[Bill14564]

For those not familiar with the Barrington Declaration, it is controversial, was drafted last month by three public health scientists who were hosted by the American Institute for Economic Research.

The basic assumptions in the declaration are that children and younger adults have a much lower risk of serious health consequences from COVID-19; herd immunity can be achieved by allowing such lower-risk populations to become infected and thereby achieve natural resistance; older and higher-risk populations should and can be protected from community transmission; and the negative consequences of a shutdown outweigh the negative consequences that would ensue from following this "Focused Protection" approach.

Each of these assumptions is flawed or untested. We don't know what the long term effects of Covid are on young children. It is becoming clear that herd immunity can only be achieved with a vaccine as it appears antibodies drop after several months in previous Covid positive people, making them susceptible to additional infections. And realistically, how can we protect old people? The simple answer is getting people to wear masks and social distance, but taking a look at recent rallies, and even riding around the Square at Sumter landing, it is apparent that masks don't matter to a lot of people. And it is pretty tough to control the interaction of young children and their high risk grandparents. Lastly, no one is advocating a complete lock down. What is being advocated is masks, social distancing, and contact tracing to control the disease and prevent lockdowns from being necessary.The bottom line, major scientific organizations are denouncing the Barrington Declaration, calling it life-threatening and practically impossible. Dr. Fauci called it nonsense.

Herd Immunity simply means there is enough immunity in the community that a virus stops spreading. Vaccinating the population is one method of reaching herd immunity. Exposing a large segment of the population to the virus to allow them to become immune is a much more controversial approach.

I suspect in six months or so the same comments will be made and questions raised about the vaccination program:

Will enough of the population take the vaccine?
How long does the immunity it creates really last?
Is it safe / do people survive taking it?
Will there be long term effects from taking it? How can you be sure?
How will we know who has taken it and developed immunity?
How do we protect the people who won't or can't take it?


I'm not advocating against masks or the eventual vaccine. On the contrary, wearing masks, even if it turns out they are not effective, at least shows that people are taking the virus seriously. If an effective vaccine comes out in a few months, that's great. But in the meantime, I think "science" needs to be open to all reasonable possibilities and not look to a vaccine as *only* viable solution.

[8notes]

Not at all. You are comparing two different thoughts.
You have the right to wear a mask. You have no right to demand others wear a mask. If you feel that this is not sufficient, then you should avoid those that you feel are putting you in danger. If I have the right of way on a street, I still have to avoid hitting a pedestrian. However, if I am driving down the street and a pedestrian throws themselves in front of me, I am not at fault for running over that pedestrian. It was that person's fault for expecting me to be able to stop.
On the other hand, "losing humanity" has nothing to do with that subject of being subjected to others' demands. I have a great deal of humanity and will always assist the needy. However, I am not subject to a demand to assist the needy. Humanity is not be a slave to other's whims. Humanity is based on charity.
There seems to be a view by half of our country that believes that the haves must assist the have nots. If a person is forced to do something against one's will, it no longer becomes charity; it becomes a tax or law.
Therefore, by using the premise that humanity is based on the whims of others, those that must wear a mask SHOULD isolate themselves from those that do not. You should and must feel charitable towards those you do not agree with as being equal recipients of your charity as you deem must share their charity with you. That is "humanity."
So, stay away from me when I am not wearing my mask and I will keep my distance from you when you deem it necessary to wear a mask. But, do not presume to limit my mobility based on your presumption that you have the right of way and I do not.
Humanity is not based upon your definition of what others must do for you.

We DO have a right to require people to wear a mask if it is in the interest of public health. That is the same reason that smoking is prohibited by law in certain public areas. Your own supposed personal rights are superseded by what is deemed in the best interest of the general public. For example, you can say I have the right not to send my kids to school. But the government has decided it is in the best interest of society as a whole to have an educated populace, so kids are required to attend school for a certain period of time. Hopefully with the new administration in Washington, we will get some uniformity across the states as far as containing the pandemic until a vaccine is available.

[biker1]

I guess you are unfamiliar with the term "home schooling". You don't have to send your kids to school. You can teach them yourself. There are some guidelines you must follow but you do not have to send your kids to school.

We DO have a right to require people to wear a mask if it is in the interest of public health. That is the same reason that smoking is prohibited by law in certain public areas. Your own supposed personal rights are superseded by what is deemed in the best interest of the general public. For example, you can say I have the right not to send my kids to school. But the government has decided it is in the best interest of society as a whole to have an educated populace, so kids are required to attend school for a certain period of time. Hopefully with the new administration in Washington, we will get some uniformity across the states as far as containing the pandemic until a vaccine is available.