$15 per hour

[village dreamer]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.

[Dana1963]

$15.00 by 2026

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.

They already overcharge you for a donut here at Dunkin Donuts anyway. It's cheaper up north, where minimum wage is higher. Don't blame costs on minimum wage. Blame it on greedy companies that know they can get whatever they charge you, because you're willing to pay it.

[Topspinmo]

They already overcharge you for a donut here at Dunkin Donuts anyway. It's cheaper up north, where minimum wage is higher. Don't blame costs on minimum wage. Blame it on greedy companies that know they can get whatever they charge you, because you're willing to pay it.

I find most things are higher in Florida.

[Bikeracer2009]

In the 50's a carpenter could have a house, a wife that didn't work and put his kids through college before he retired. Wages started to stagnate as cola went up. By the 70's double income households became the norm as more women entered the workforce to maintain their lifestyle. The 80's brought on credit debt to keep things going. The wage divide has increased in non-union companies between the top earners and the bottom dwellers. The minimum wage increases are at least a decade apart but cola keeps chugging along so each year you technically make less money if you're paid a minimum wage.
My mother worked for minimum wages her whole life, raised two kids without a father and died without a funeral. Life was a struggle and homelessness was a yearly experience. Going days without eating, no heat in the winter or a/c in the summer.

I think the minimum wage should be a living wage. Take the average 1 bedroom apartment, the cost to live in it and the bare minimum it takes to survive in that state, divide that into an hourly pay and set that as the minimum wage for that state.

The last job I had the CEO made 8 million a year and got a 12 million dollar bonus. The workers paid more for their Healthcare. Seems fair.

[Art cov]

If one is worth $15 or $20 an hour, most businesses would gladly pay the wage if a person is worth it. A good worker is hard to find. Hard to find those who will show up and hustle. I would much rather pay $15 or $20 then $10. Try hiring 10 people and see how long they will last. The fact is those that are not worth $15 an hour will be out of a job. I have paid employees $20 an hour, but those folks would do 3 times as much work in a week then the lazy ones. The market will pay what a person is worth and if they think that they should be paid more then go find that job. Employers are tired of lazy people who can’t get on the job, or full of drama, and find every excuse to not work. Pay them what their worth and if their not worth it, let them go.

[Scott O]

They already overcharge you for a donut here at Dunkin Donuts anyway. It's cheaper up north, where minimum wage is higher. Don't blame costs on minimum wage. Blame it on greedy companies that know they can get whatever they charge you, because you're willing to pay it.
No prices are not cheaper up north...you count highest TAXED cities, NYC, Boston...your response says it all...you mean the greedy companies that employ everyone? Typical retired person comment...

[bowlingal]

It's over 6 years....$1 per year.. not all at once

[Nick B]

I will gladly pay more so someone can live a little better. And that way the business owner can still make his boat payment.

[Girlcopper]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate
keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.
The $15 wont be until 2026. Its little by little a year. I doubt we will go poor with increased fees

[pvetrano1]

R u nuts ? I live in NJ and I can tell you , nothing is more expensive in Florida !

[dewilson58]

R u nuts ? I live in NJ and I can tell you , nothing is more expensive in Florida !


Other than the Cost Index is 19% higher in NJ, you are correct. :1rotfl:

[merrymini]

The northeast, as far as my experience goes, is much more expensive then Florida. I know because I also live there. Studies have show that increasing the minimum wage to $15 per hour will REDUCE the number of jobs for entry level employees. The idea that all small business can support this wage increase is not true. Meanwhile, small businesses have been closed down while place like Walmart have been allowed to stay open!

[Medtrans]

They already overcharge you for a donut here at Dunkin Donuts anyway. It's cheaper up north, where minimum wage is higher. Don't blame costs on minimum wage. Blame it on greedy companies that know they can get whatever they charge you, because you're willing to pay it.

I don’t know what part of “up north” you are referring too, but I’ve lived in 4 up north states and not one of them was less costly than Florida. Three times property taxes than here in 2 of those states, and state income tax. Maybe a gallon of milk was less or a loaf of bread but pretty sure I can handle that over property taxes!

[Andyb]

What people don’t also understand is that young adults and students trying to get their first job, will not be available. This is a lost opportunity to learn and gain independence and maturity, plus a little spending money toward a first car, school, etc. People do not think things through. Fewer jobs will be available and goods and services will go up, too. Not good for seniors.

[Jima64]

I guess business owners will have to pay the increase but they can eliminate the workers that don't deserve it. I don't buy fast food hb's or pizza so I am not familiar with the cost but the last time I saw pricing it was way too high.

[rlcooper70]

Do you believe that people in Seattle pay double what you pay for coffee and donuts? Come on. You know they have mandatory minimum wage of $15 ... and their economy is going along very nicely. You are being manipulated by fear. Give up the fear and move on.

[johnnascar]

$15 seems reasonable considering the whole Senate voted for an extra $6oo aweek unemployment at the start of the shutdown.15 times 40 equals 600.The $600 was for 0 hours.

[Stu from NYC]

Some jobs are worth $ 15 are not.

More and more unskilled jobs are being eliminated and people replaced by computers terminals.

Raising the minimum wages speeds up the process.

Less and less cashiers at grocery stores and fast food restaurants.

[Wing-nut2]

When I retired from the Air Force in 1990, I went to work for The Home Depot. I started out at $10.00 an hour. Here it is 30 years later and most people are still making $10.00 per hour. How much of what we buy is at the same price it was 30 years ago? NOTHING! I have no problem with the $15.00 per hour wage

[mtlee024]

They already overcharge you for a donut here at Dunkin Donuts anyway. It's cheaper up north, where minimum wage is higher. Don't blame costs on minimum wage. Blame it on greedy companies that know they can get whatever they charge you, because you're willing to pay it.

You just described capitalism, Economics 101, as long as you will buy the sellers will increase the price, until you don't buy. Actually there is a formula for this. If you don't like the price of something don't buy it, but don't complain about it. At least in a capitalism country you have the opportunity to buy. Whereas, in socialist country you wait in line for the possibility of buying one roll of TP. I did not vote for the FL $15 min wage as I think it will increase prices while increasing unemployment. I am willing to bet anyone I am right. All you people who don't like self check-out get ready, because a lot more is coming.

[MandoMan]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.

$15 an hour X 40 hours a week X 50 weeks a year (allowing a two week vacation) = 2000 hours of work per year for $30,000.

$30,000 a year is approximately what I get from Social Security without working. I also have retirement savings. A lot of people in The Villages live on that, or less, but if they do, there’s a good chance they have no mortgage or a small one, and they have Medicare, which is a huge help.

Workers making $30,000 a year pay little to no Federal Income Tax but do pay the Social Security Tax. Workers making $30,000 a year don’t qualify for Medicaid but may qualify for assistance for buying health insurance. They probably no longer qualify for food stamps, or whatever it is called these days. They may no longer qualify for some other government aid that offsets every penny they pay in taxes. They are probably paying a third of their salary in rent. Most of what they don’t spend on rent and utilities goes to buying things. Their buying things keeps the rest of the country producing things to buy. If they make half as much, they buy a lot less.

A family with two workers making $30,000 a year each can afford to buy a house, maybe a small car, be more comfortable. Maybe they get health insurance. They can pay their bills. They pay income tax. They are no longer taking from the government without giving, but are productive, proud, and have a level of freedom from want they don’t have on $30,000 a year, much less less than that. They can do that with high school diplomas, or even without them if they are each earning $15 an hour. Instead of all of us paying, by way of the government, to keep them alive, they too become taxpayers.

I think that is fantastic! What happens sometimes now is that businesses hire people for a wage so low that we the government have to make up the difference. Why should employers get a free ride that way? Wouldn’t you much rather pay for those employees by paying slightly more for products and services than by paying more tax so they can receive more government handouts? A good living wage encourages people to work and lets more people enjoy the fruits of the American Dream we like to talk about. It’s part of making America great for ALL people.

[wsachs]

Last statistics I read said eight people have same wealth as 50% of the world's population. Seems fair to me.

[EdFNJ]

Every worker deserves at least a $15 min wage ... however it will absolutely destroy the small mom & pop stores unless there is some sort of exemption for stores who do under $???????? gross per year.

[Villages Kahuna]

Those prices would be awful. But where did you get those numbers?

[Dana1963]

You just described capitalism, Economics 101, as long as you will buy the sellers will increase the price, until you don't buy. Actually there is a formula for this. If you don't like the price of something don't buy it, but don't complain about it. At least in a capitalism country you have the opportunity to buy. Whereas, in socialist country you wait in line for the possibility of buying one roll of TP. I did not vote for the FL $15 min wage as I think it will increase prices while increasing unemployment. I am willing to bet anyone I am right. All you people who don't like self check-out get ready, because a lot more is coming.
It's strange 6 months ago we went through the same scenario, limits on toilet paper, paper towels, sanitation supplies even now Clorox wipes are limited by supply along with limits on alcohol and hydrogen peroxide purchases

[DecaturFargo]

Actually, yes. Unlike my counterparts here in the Villages, I care about a decent livelihood for workers. Life is not all about me! My Christians Villagers better look within and assess their true sense of community.

[SWesterlund]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.

The fact that Morgan and Morgan is behind the push for this, is enough for me to be against it. And, I agree with your analysis on the repercussions of raising the minimum wage.

[jbrown132]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.
Here is my question. It is clear that the cost of food in restaurants will go up. If a waiter is now making $15.00 an hour do I still tip 20%. Say you and your wife go to dinner an the tab is $50.00. At 20% the tip would be $7.50 making their wage $22.50 and that assumes you are there for the entire hour. This intuitively seems highly to me an I believe will hurt these establishments. Maybe I’m wrong.

[Nucky]

We would be honored to pay more for whatever is necessary to raise the minimum pay to $15. Florida should be commended.

That being said I owed a small Copy Machine & Fax Machine Sales & Service company about 30ish years ago and as an owner, if I was required to raise someone's pay then they would have to step up their game and earn it. No more day off for a day at the beach and leaving me holding the bag. I wouldn't mind paying them even more if they were worth it. Changing the Minimum Wage during a Pandemic may not be the best timing. When would be the best timing? Progress is never easy.

[wdst1]

Why don’t you try living on the current minimum wage, which in Florida is currently $8.56/ hr. only then you can talk about $3 donuts.

[jammendolia]

I am from Taxachusett. High school kids and unskilled labor is not worth $15 an hour.

[Nucky]

Here is my question. It is clear that the cost of food in restaurants will go up. If a waiter is now making $15.00 an hour do I still tip 20%. Say you and your wife go to dinner an the tab is $50.00. At 20% the tip would be $7.50 making their wage $22.50 and that assumes you are there for the entire hour. This intuitively seems highly to me an I believe will hurt these establishments. Maybe I’m wrong.

The tip would still be 20% in our world. I wouldn't judge you if you tip more or less. :duck:

[Marty94]

Changes to minimum wage affects not only small business that must absorb or pass on these costs, but will require the federal government to change its pay scale as well. At $15/hr, minimum wage will be significantly greater than an enlisted member of our armed forces and competitive with civil service positions requiring degrees. To put this into context, my son, a mechanical engineer, with an education cost over $300k, was hired by the Dept of the Army three years ago. His designs can be seen in many industries today. His starting salary wasn’t much higher than this approved minimum wage. The government will have a hard time finding college educated students with bright minds that will be willing to accept these positions. Adjustments will have to be made to remain competitive and that cost will be passed on to all taxpayers.

[DIver0258]

I feel many are missing the bigger picture. Many restaurants have already laid the groundwork, by installing kiosks and online ordering apps. There will be signficant loss of jobs in this sector. Many small business will be forced to close, I know we ran a small business for many years. Our folks were paid between $8.00 starting out capping at $12.50. At a $15.00 starting point we could not have remained in business. There would be no profit at the end of the week. Raise prices you say, many customers quit or pushed back when we mentioned having to raise prices due to higher operating costs. I agree everyone deserves to make a decent wage. Entry level positions do not mandate $15.00. These positions are stepping stones to a better position, more skilled, with a higher wage. I am just speaking from the small guys perspective. Many don't realize the cost involved in operating a small business.

[KRM0614]

They already overcharge you for a donut here at Dunkin Donuts anyway. It's cheaper up north, where minimum wage is higher. Don't blame costs on minimum wage. Blame it on greedy companies that know they can get whatever they charge you, because you're willing to pay it.
Thank you so much ! That’s exactly right it’s not the wages paid it’s the profits kept ! Almost every state has higher minimum wages and their prices are less. Look how expensive Public is ! Kroger’s would mop the floor here!

This is a unique environment also as all the local business pay much higher rent and royalties to the Morse family/ Villages. Some how they’ve managed to price gouge. As the place gets larger non of the operating costs go down in fact the amenity bill is now around 210-230 a month.

[KRM0614]

If one is worth $15 or $20 an hour, most businesses would gladly pay the wage if a person is worth it. A good worker is hard to find. Hard to find those who will show up and hustle. I would much rather pay $15 or $20 then $10. Try hiring 10 people and see how long they will last. The fact is those that are not worth $15 an hour will be out of a job. I have paid employees $20 an hour, but those folks would do 3 times as much work in a week then the lazy ones. The market will pay what a person is worth and if they think that they should be paid more then go find that job. Employers are tired of lazy people who can’t get on the job, or full of drama, and find every excuse to not work. Pay them what their worth and if their not worth it, let them go.
Boom ! Exactly thank you

[Bob.Betty]

Since when was fastfood work supposed to be a career?

[Tennisnut]

This is a statement regarding our economy. Our economy can not provide for support for everyone to have healthcare, our small businesses can not survive without paying a very low minimum wages without their employees receiving government subsidies such as the SNAP benefits. This economy is based on the sacrifices of these workers.

[Stu from NYC]

Here is my question. It is clear that the cost of food in restaurants will go up. If a waiter is now making $15.00 an hour do I still tip 20%. Say you and your wife go to dinner an the tab is $50.00. At 20% the tip would be $7.50 making their wage $22.50 and that assumes you are there for the entire hour. This intuitively seems highly to me an I believe will hurt these establishments. Maybe I’m wrong.

If servers made salary of $ 15 one should reevaluate tip levels. No idea to what at the moment but a lesser percentage would probably make sense.

[KRM0614]

R u nuts ? I live in NJ and I can tell you , nothing is more expensive in Florida !
That depends where you are in NJ! Northern jersey is higher than central or south but not the shore !
Many things here are taxed locally and multiple. Property taxes for my house are very high as is most everything and I came from MI a upper middle class area.

[Stu from NYC]

Since when was fastfood work supposed to be a career?

Well said. People seem to forget that many entry level positions are just that and not a career.

Why would anyone be satisfied with a career flipping burgers.

Great to do that starting out but gain experience and look to move to something that pays better and gives more job satisfaction.

[sloanst]

Minimum wage was never meant to support a family. It's a stepping stone so people can get work experience while they are getting an education. Flipping burgers and stocking shelves is not a career.

[Dana1963]

If servers made salary of $ 15 one should reevaluate tip levels. No idea to what at the moment but a lesser percentage would probably make sense.
A good waitress/waiter may take care of 5 tables an hour for a couple the meal + drinks maybe as little as $50.00 per couple $250.00 @ 15% gratuity = $37.50 hourly. Even if only 2 tables an hour $100 bill @ 15% = $15 hourly. Not to shaby
Actually they might refresh your beverage take your order deliver your meal then check about 15 minutes work

[Going My Way]

If servers made salary of $ 15 one should reevaluate tip levels. No idea to what at the moment but a lesser percentage would probably make sense.
I agree with you!
Tips are for those that work for tips..
A worker making $15 an hour comes to over $31K a year, that equal to a union 4th year electrical apprentice who are NOT allowed to accept tips..
A Bar-Owner works a shift behind the bar at his own establishment would you tip him?

[Dana1963]

Here is my question. It is clear that the cost of food in restaurants will go up. If a waiter is now making $15.00 an hour do I still tip 20%. Say you and your wife go to dinner an the tab is $50.00. At 20% the tip would be $7.50 making their wage $22.50 and that assumes you are there for the entire hour. This intuitively seems highly to me an I believe will hurt these establishments. Maybe I’m wrong.
The 20% tip would be $10 @ 15% would be $7.50 think of it as NEW MATH.

[Stu from NYC]

A good waitress/waiter may take care of 5 tables an hour for a couple the meal + drinks maybe as little as $50.00 per couple $250.00 @ 15% gratuity = $37.50 hourly. Even if only 2 tables an hour $100 bill @ 15% = $15 hourly. Not to shaby
Actually they might refresh your beverage take your order deliver your meal then check about 15 minutes work

You should allow for server to tip out the others who work there.

[Dana1963]

Changes to minimum wage affects not only small business that must absorb or pass on these costs, but will require the federal government to change its pay scale as well. At $15/hr, minimum wage will be significantly greater than an enlisted member of our armed forces and competitive with civil service positions requiring degrees. To put this into context, my son, a mechanical engineer, with an education cost over $300k, was hired by the Dept of the Army three years ago. His designs can be seen in many industries today. His starting salary wasn’t much higher than this approved minimum wage. The government will have a hard time finding college educated students with bright minds that will be willing to accept these positions. Adjustments will have to be made to remain competitive and that cost will be passed on to all taxpayers.
Your son should have enlisted and went to OCS if qualifies as an officer 01 pay grade is over $5100 monthly.

[Dana1963]

You should allow for server to tip out the others who work there.
Busing staff/ dishwasher are sometimes tipped at 10% of the waiter/waitresses total for shift and split among those employees.

[LianneMigiano]

My son left CT in JAN earning $22 hr. (after 30 years in the business). He is now working here for $13 hr. doing the same thing he did up north. His experience apparently counts for NOTHING. All this also being at one of the top rated companies to work for in The Villages!!!!!

[biker1]

I don't know where your son lived in CT but it is, in general, a very high cost of living area, particularly in the southwest. Salaries do reflect the cost of living. The cost of living is probably lower here than CT. Also, you, in general, get paid according to the revenue and profits you bring into a company. Experience can certainly help but it isn't a guarantee of a higher salary.

My son left CT in JAN earning $22 hr. (after 30 years in the business). He is now working here for $13 hr. doing the same thing he did up north. His experience apparently counts for NOTHING. All this also being at one of the top rated companies to work for in The Villages!!!!!

[Dana1963]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.
Florida Amendment 2. Raise Minimum Wage
Raises the minimum wage to $10.00 per hour effective September 30th, 2021 and then increases it annually by $1.00 per hour until the minimum wage reaches $15.00 per hour in 2026 and then reverts back to being adjusted annually for inflation.
99% reporting
Vote %
Vote count
Yes
60.8% 6,371,082
No
39.2% 4,107,932

[biker1]

Tipped employees' base wages will most likely not be going to $10 per hour (forget the $15 per hour number as that doesn't happen till 2026) next year. Tipped employees in FL must make the FL minimum wage (currently $8.56 per hour) through a combination of the tipped employees base wage (currently $5.54 per hour) and tips. If they don't make the $8.56 per hour number via their base wage plus tips then their employer must make up the difference. The tipped employee base wage will probably increase somewhat and they will probably be guaranteed at least $10 per hour via base wage and tips (plus employer contribution if necessary).

Here is my question. It is clear that the cost of food in restaurants will go up. If a waiter is now making $15.00 an hour do I still tip 20%. Say you and your wife go to dinner an the tab is $50.00. At 20% the tip would be $7.50 making their wage $22.50 and that assumes you are there for the entire hour. This intuitively seems highly to me an I believe will hurt these establishments. Maybe I’m wrong.

[NoMoSno]

Currently, no other state except for NYC has a minimum wage this high.
NYC only has a minimum wage of $15.

[Gulfcoast]

Why don’t you try living on the current minimum wage, which in Florida is currently $8.56/ hr. only then you can talk about $3 donuts.

That is generally for first time jobs. Once they have experience and show that they are reliable and capable they earn more...which seems very fair to me.

Raising the minimum wage to $15/hr will make it much harder for employees to earn raises over time. The really good, experienced employees will wind up making the same wage as the newbies which isn't right.

[Gulfcoast]

Currently, no other state except for NYC has a minimum wage this high.
NYC only has a minimum wage of $15.

And who can afford to live in NYC on $15/hr so what exactly the point?

[Nevermore]

I believe in a livable wage. People work hard, like the Villages gardeners. They need those extra dollars a lot more then you do.

[carolandjohn]

How many of those people whose earnings would be increased can now afford to buy a donut or a pizza?

[STLRAY]

Most (but not all) minimum wage employers are small mom and pop family businesses that operate on razor thin margins and cannot adsorb the higher costs. Some will fail, some will automate and some will raise prices. The people who keep their jobs will be better off. The ones who lose their jobs from either automation or the failure of their employer will lose out. In my small business I was willing to pay higher wages because that's what it takes to hire the best people.

[dewilson58]

How many of those people whose earnings would be increased can now afford to buy a donut or a pizza?
Economics say all of them...........their wages went up faster than the donut/pizza.

[Gulfcoast]

I believe in a livable wage. People work hard, like the Villages gardeners. They need those extra dollars a lot more then you do.

The problem is that all wages and the prices for everything (goods/services/housing) will also go up as the minimum wage rises. It's all relative.

This isn't going to make things better for the low wage earners and it's going to be terrible for the retirees in Florida who are already living on a fixed income.

[jimhurtt@twc.com]

Yes but the only occupation where the employees are expected to "live off their tips" are waiters and waitresses. Every other business has to pay the federal minimum wage.

[vintageogauge]

Why don’t you try living on the current minimum wage, which in Florida is currently $8.56/ hr. only then you can talk about $3 donuts.

The minimum wage is not intended for those who are working a full time job and raising a family and have to live on these low wages. It is for entry positions for students, part timers, or for those that are not qualified for jobs paying more, in larger companies these jobs lead to better jobs and in some cases paid college tuition. It is sad to say but there are people out there that cannot be productive enough to earn $15.00/hour. These entry and part time jobs will be reduced to the point that only those who are ambitious, skillful, and hard working will get them, the others will be paid out of the extra taxes the entry level jobs produce while they sit at home having a not so good life. When these jobs are reduced the check out lines, drive through lines, motel check in times, all will be longer and longer.

[Gulfcoast]

Yes but the only occupation where the employees are expected to "live off their tips" are waiters and waitresses. Every other business has to pay the federal minimum wage.

I used to wait tables and a good server can work fewer hours and make more money than a person making hourly minimum wage does. I've known college kids who make $300/$400 in tips alone on a single weekend night. A kid earning $9/hr flipping burgers 30 hours a week makes about $270/week.

Now when restaurants require things like tip pooling and tip sharing the deal is not so great for servers.

[Kenswing]

One unintentional consequence of raising the minimum wage in Seattle was that people cut their hours because the raise would disqualify them from certain social programs.

[petiteone]

We already pay 25 for a pizza. If everyone made a living wage we'd have lower taxes and fewer people on welfare.

[Stu from NYC]

We already pay 25 for a pizza. If everyone made a living wage we'd have lower taxes and fewer people on welfare.

Sorry but that is not exactly how the economy works.

[STLRAY]

I was born with no marketable skills. I found out as a teenager that the jobs available to me with no skills were unpleasant and paid very little. With two years in community college and two more in a affordable state college I could earn far more with much less effort. I guess I could have bitched and moaned about how unfair my lot in life was. Getting my butt in gear and getting trained to do something that paid well seems like a more effective strategy. I am sympathetic to the plight of people with no marketable skills. I used to be one of those people. I am not sure demanding that the government force my boss to pay me more than I am worth will be an effective strategy long term.

[jimjamuser]

In the 50's a carpenter could have a house, a wife that didn't work and put his kids through college before he retired. Wages started to stagnate as cola went up. By the 70's double income households became the norm as more women entered the workforce to maintain their lifestyle. The 80's brought on credit debt to keep things going. The wage divide has increased in non-union companies between the top earners and the bottom dwellers. The minimum wage increases are at least a decade apart but cola keeps chugging along so each year you technically make less money if you're paid a minimum wage.
My mother worked for minimum wages her whole life, raised two kids without a father and died without a funeral. Life was a struggle and homelessness was a yearly experience. Going days without eating, no heat in the winter or a/c in the summer.

I think the minimum wage should be a living wage. Take the average 1 bedroom apartment, the cost to live in it and the bare minimum it takes to survive in that state, divide that into an hourly pay and set that as the minimum wage for that state.

The last job I had the CEO made 8 million a year and got a 12 million dollar bonus. The workers paid more for their Healthcare. Seems fair.
Good post. Sorry about those bad life experiences. A higher minimum wage should help society. The current wealth disparity will be hard to resolve. Most people are not even aware of things like that. The US could have done so much better for its citizens.

[jimjamuser]

Some jobs are worth $ 15 are not.

More and more unskilled jobs are being eliminated and people replaced by computers terminals.

Raising the minimum wages speeds up the process.

Less and less cashiers at grocery stores and fast food restaurants.
A.I. and robotics will eliminate jobs at a high rate regardless of WHAT the minimum wage is.

[Stu from NYC]

A.I. and robotics will eliminate jobs at a high rate regardless of WHAT the minimum wage is.

But a higher minimum wage will incentivize companies to speed up the process.

It is a shame that so many of us go to supermarkets and do self checkouts. Provide free labor to supermarkets while putting cashiers out of work.

[Aloha1]

If servers made salary of $ 15 one should reevaluate tip levels. No idea to what at the moment but a lesser percentage would probably make sense.

And keep in mind, that tip goes directly to the employee and does nothing to help the employer absorb the wage mandate. And that's why prices will be going up.

[Yjacket74]

Here is my question. It is clear that the cost of food in restaurants will go up. If a waiter is now making $15.00 an hour do I still tip 20%. Say you and your wife go to dinner an the tab is $50.00. At 20% the tip would be $7.50 making their wage $22.50 and that assumes you are there for the entire hour. This intuitively seems highly to me an I believe will hurt these establishments. Maybe I’m wrong.

Time to STOP this 'tipping' nonsense and pay people a decent wage. In Australia, if you try to tip, the worker says "I work for a living" and refuses the tip.

[npwalters]

I was born with no marketable skills. I found out as a teenager that the jobs available to me with no skills were unpleasant and paid very little. With two years in community college and two more in a affordable state college I could earn far more with much less effort. I guess I could have bitched and moaned about how unfair my lot in life was. Getting my butt in gear and getting trained to do something that paid well seems like a more effective strategy. I am sympathetic to the plight of people with no marketable skills. I used to be one of those people. I am not sure demanding that the government force my boss to pay me more than I am worth will be an effective strategy long term.

Yep

[Smilingfeelsgood]

I believe the hourly rate for any hiree should be the result of an agreement between the employer and the hiree. If a hiree is willing to work for $7 per hour and the employer agrees, so be it. If the hiree wants $15 and the employer is only willing to pay $13, we all move on. No one should dictate what an employer has to pay. We all know what our financial needs are. Requiring a mandatory per hour rate distorts the per hour rate of others above this position, i.e if the dish washer is paid a mandatory $15 should the register clerk be paid more or the same even though there is more knowledge and skill required. I vote for the "mutual agreement" theory. How about you?

[Snowprint]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.

You’re worried about golf fees going up? How about, instead of worrying about paying a little more for a worthless leisure activity which, I expect, will not affect you at all, worrying about someone being paid a living wage? How about thinking about someone working a full time job making less than $350 a week before taxes? How does that person pay for shelter, food, clothes, children etc? They aren’t worried about green fees or having their lawn look pretty. Paying someone a living wage isn’t a luxury. It’s a necessity for a country that possesses as much wealth as the United States. I, for one, refuse to have any sympathy for someone who’s more worried about the amount they pay for green fees...

[PugMom]

I am from Taxachusett. High school kids and unskilled labor is not worth $15 an hour.

dittos, same as Corrupticut

[Gulfcoast]

I was born with no marketable skills. I found out as a teenager that the jobs available to me with no skills were unpleasant and paid very little. With two years in community college and two more in a affordable state college I could earn far more with much less effort. I guess I could have bitched and moaned about how unfair my lot in life was. Getting my butt in gear and getting trained to do something that paid well seems like a more effective strategy. I am sympathetic to the plight of people with no marketable skills. I used to be one of those people. I am not sure demanding that the government force my boss to pay me more than I am worth will be an effective strategy long term.

In Florida kids can get free tuition through Bright Future scholarships which are paid for through lottery sale proceeds. So they can get a free college education AND gain valuable job experience (customer service, cash handling, working under pressure/deadlines) because the entry level restaurant/retail jobs are so plentiful in this state.

[Joe V.]

You’re worried about golf fees going up? How about, instead of worrying about paying a little more for a worthless leisure activity which, I expect, will not affect you at all, worrying about someone being paid a living wage? How about thinking about someone working a full time job making less than $350 a week before taxes? How does that person pay for shelter, food, clothes, children etc? They aren’t worried about green fees or having their lawn look pretty. Paying someone a living wage isn’t a luxury. It’s a necessity for a country that possesses as much wealth as the United States. I, for one, refuse to have any sympathy for someone who’s more worried about the amount they pay for green fees...

And you continue to whine on.

[jimjamuser]

$15 an hour X 40 hours a week X 50 weeks a year (allowing a two week vacation) = 2000 hours of work per year for $30,000.

$30,000 a year is approximately what I get from Social Security without working. I also have retirement savings. A lot of people in The Villages live on that, or less, but if they do, there’s a good chance they have no mortgage or a small one, and they have Medicare, which is a huge help.

Workers making $30,000 a year pay little to no Federal Income Tax but do pay the Social Security Tax. Workers making $30,000 a year don’t qualify for Medicaid but may qualify for assistance for buying health insurance. They probably no longer qualify for food stamps, or whatever it is called these days. They may no longer qualify for some other government aid that offsets every penny they pay in taxes. They are probably paying a third of their salary in rent. Most of what they don’t spend on rent and utilities goes to buying things. Their buying things keeps the rest of the country producing things to buy. If they make half as much, they buy a lot less.

A family with two workers making $30,000 a year each can afford to buy a house, maybe a small car, be more comfortable. Maybe they get health insurance. They can pay their bills. They pay income tax. They are no longer taking from the government without giving, but are productive, proud, and have a level of freedom from want they don’t have on $30,000 a year, much less less than that. They can do that with high school diplomas, or even without them if they are each earning $15 an hour. Instead of all of us paying, by way of the government, to keep them alive, they too become taxpayers.

I think that is fantastic! What happens sometimes now is that businesses hire people for a wage so low that we the government have to make up the difference. Why should employers get a free ride that way? Wouldn’t you much rather pay for those employees by paying slightly more for products and services than by paying more tax so they can receive more government handouts? A good living wage encourages people to work and lets more people enjoy the fruits of the American Dream we like to talk about. It’s part of making America great for ALL people.
A government program to improve roads and infrastructure would give many people a living wage and be a good long-term investment. I will believe it when I see it. People should push for that.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Maybe retail prices will go up, maybe they won't. The assumptions that all financial relationships are linear and inflexible is not a very good one. First, lets assume that in a P&L or income statement, the minimum wage worker is in COGS, cost of goods sold. so without any changes in revenue or pricing, margins go down. Now margins change all the time for various supply chain and other costs. from margins SG&A costs are spent. Now to maintain the same operating income on a lower margin, some SG&A costs are unaffordable. . . or maybe the owner will accept a lower operating income even after everyone else maintains the same pay.

So every company and owners are different, some may increase prices because they feel entitled to a certain level of income, some may not, however, the business world decisions are never one dimensional and a guarantee. But I will say if you look at the data over the last 50 years, the minimum wage was not indexed to inflation, as a previous poster personally demonstrated.

So everyone on a salary and receiving social security received an inflationary raise, which means that their purchasing power remained the same, didn't increase, didn't decrease. Your ability to increase your wages comes from promotions or increased skills or higher demand for your skill. Minimum wage did not get that increase anfor nually many years, so business and everyone else enjoyed the increased profits or the reduced inflationary effect. . .

However, when the spread gets very wide, there is a reversion to the mean, and this increase is an example of that, bringing the relationship back in line, or closer to in line with the intent of the rate, entry level employment or unskilled labor

But not all jobs can be replaced by machines, there will be some. . . but lets not let schadenfreude be the rule of the forum. its an opportunity for the entry level or for the working class who has no opportunity to increase skills to earn a bit more at the expense of business income margins, and the business will adjust. . . how, not sure, everyone is different. The salaried class and retired class gained while they didn't at different times in the past, the world isn't linear or constantly fair but we aren't all victims all the time either. . .

finance guy

[oldtimes]

The problem is that all wages and the prices for everything (goods/services/housing) will also go up as the minimum wage rises. It's all relative.

This isn't going to make things better for the low wage earners and it's going to be terrible for the retirees in Florida who are already living on a fixed income.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Too often people only see the side that sounds nice and do not understand that there is also a downside. This will be great for minimum wage earners but there will be a price to pay for small business and there will be job losses as well. Also as Kenswing mentioned some minimum wage earners will lose their federal assistance. Also people who now make 15.00 per hour will demand an increase and rightfully so. It’s never that simple.

[Mapuha17]

Agree

[Gulfcoast]

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Too often people only see the side that sounds nice and do not understand that there is also a downside. This will be great for minimum wage earners but there will be a price to pay for small business and there will be job losses as well. Also as Kenswing mentioned some minimum wage earners will lose their federal assistance. Also people who now make 15.00 per hour will demand an increase and rightfully so. It’s never that simple.

The community will have fewer food and retail options as businesses either shut down or move out. I wish we could at least decide this minimum wage thing based on county rather than enforce this across the entire state.

[jimjamuser]

Time to STOP this 'tipping' nonsense and pay people a decent wage. In Australia, if you try to tip, the worker says "I work for a living" and refuses the tip.
Got to love Australia!

[Topspinmo]

R u nuts ? I live in NJ and I can tell you , nothing is more expensive in Florida !

Compared to Midwest Florida is my NJ.

[billethkid]

All else being equal...when expenses go up there has to be increased revenue from incremental new business added, or price increase to you and me OR reduction of expenses (get rid of people).

And I am sure that everybody who is for the ongoing increasing of the minimum wage have no problems with prices being increased (:1rotfl:).

Let's mark our calendars and see how long it takes before the $15 minimum is just not enough to live on.

A ridiculous concept driven by politicians.

[PatGerrity]

Doesn’t go fully into practice till 2026; by then it will be equivalent to $10 hour

[Pairadocs]

$15.00 by 2026

All true points, but the worst of all will be the TRUE minimum wage people (not retired people, teens, and others only working for "extras" in their lives) whose wages will be raised to $15 per hour, they are the real losers in this. Others will some how be able to absorb it, but this will only push that class of workers even further down and out of the lower end of the "middle class". It's a shame, a healthy thriving country is one that EXPANDS the "middle class". It will hurt everyone a little, it will hurt the lowest paid among us the hardest. It's sad. I did notice an extremely wealthy Florida resident, one who has pushed so many "progressive" ideas about drug legalization, and others was a powerful force behind this. It was obviously the desire of the majority of Floridians, so, I guess those of us who think it will do more damage than good will just have to wait and see !

[Pairadocs]

The problem is that all wages and the prices for everything (goods/services/housing) will also go up as the minimum wage rises. It's all relative.

This isn't going to make things better for the low wage earners and it's going to be terrible for the retirees in Florida who are already living on a fixed income.

I don't really disagree with you, but I believe it is not the retirees who will suffer most, but the working families who work for minimum wage. EVERYTHING will now be further from their grasp, from a new car to a meal out to a simple ice cream cone. I agree it will be hard on fixed income retirees, but most (I am not saying ALL, just most) retirees have SS and some other source of income, and many have TWO SS checks coming in, others have savings, 401K, various pensions, and for some they have their minimum wage job AND a SS check coming in. Again, I AGREE it is tough on retirees, but not as tough as it will be on these poor folks trying to raise a family and have some decent quality of life at a minimum wage job that will now go to $15 an hour and make quality of life even more difficult for them. At $13 an hour perhaps they could treat their children to a $2.50 ice cream cone once in awhile, when those cones go to $3.50 ? Well, figure it out, $1.00 increase is 40%, but the $15 an hour is not going to be a 40% increase in wages for our lowest paid workers. What if a simple hot dog also goes to $3.50, a $1.25 soda goes to $1.50 and so on for every item they have to put in their shopping baskets.

[Pairadocs]

You’re worried about golf fees going up? How about, instead of worrying about paying a little more for a worthless leisure activity which, I expect, will not affect you at all, worrying about someone being paid a living wage? How about thinking about someone working a full time job making less than $350 a week before taxes? How does that person pay for shelter, food, clothes, children etc? They aren’t worried about green fees or having their lawn look pretty. Paying someone a living wage isn’t a luxury. It’s a necessity for a country that possesses as much wealth as the United States. I, for one, refuse to have any sympathy for someone who’s more worried about the amount they pay for green fees...

Quite a few illogical statements here. First of all not sure the person who wrote it (don't know them) but seems they were not worried about "golf fees", but if they were, isn't that why people move to a place to retire where they can enjoy some simple pleasures ? So, of course the air gun shooters will "worry" about the price of ammo, the golfers the price of golf, and the boaters the price of fuel. Also, "worthless" activities ? Really ? There is a GREAT DEAL of research to refute that, don't need to say any more. I am not a tennis player myself, but that certainly doesn't make it "worthless". Now the important part of this is, if the person who wrote it actually studied economics, and was not writing this out of emotion, then they know that family making $350. a week is going to now get pushed FURTHER down the economic ladder to a much lower quality of life. When every local business ads a penny or two, a dime or two, or a dollar or two to every product, and they will HAVE to or they and their family go down one rung on the scale of economic basic stability. The guy with the wife and four kids who started a lawn care business with himself and his brother ? HOW else will they NOT allow their family to move down one rung, unless they raise their prices to allow them to pay their minimum wage lawn care workers ? And those workers ? A gallon on milk and a some cereal and bananas will now cost them much more than the percentage of the "raise" they received. It's all an illusion, there are no short cuts to making everyone "equal".

[John41]

To raise real incomes
1. Reinstate the progressive tax rates after WW2
2. Encourage unionization
3. Stop illegal immigration
4. Discourage companies going offshore to cheap foreign labor
5. Encourage one parent to be stay at home
6. Invest social security partly in stocks
7. No cost basic medical emphasizing prevention
8. Encourage learning a trade instead of gender studies in college

[Bikeracer2009]

It looks to me that the biggest concern to raising the minimum wage is a resulting inflationary offset that negates the income increase and hurts those on a fixed income.

As I and others that are way smarter than I am have pointed out is that stagnant wages don't slow down inflation. When a business raises it's prices year after year but pays their employees the same minimum wage they make more money. This goes on for at least a decade between raising the minimum wage.

The difference between the lowest paid worker and the highest paid employee/owner has grown substantially over the last 70 years when looking at an earlier example I gave. Capitalism is great but there may come a time when the 99% refuses to play the game anymore.

I once saw a picture of a bunch of rich white guys playing a game of monopoly. The table the game was being played on was held up on the backs of black guys on their knees. The caption on the picture read "all we have to do is stand up".

The rich need to remember that the money and power they have can be taken away. Play the game with some compassion for the people or the game ends.

[Northwoods]

My son left CT in JAN earning $22 hr. (after 30 years in the business). He is now working here for $13 hr. doing the same thing he did up north. His experience apparently counts for NOTHING. All this also being at one of the top rated companies to work for in The Villages!!!!!

I have a friend (professional with 4-year degree) who moved down here and took a significant hit on their salary. I think a part of it is that FL doesn't have a state income tax so salaries are lower. I will say that it appears that jobs pay less in FL vs. "northern" states.

[Kenswing]

I have a friend (professional with 4-year degree) who moved down here and took a significant hit on their salary. I think a part of it is that FL doesn't have a state income tax so salaries are lower. I will say that it appears that jobs pay less in FL vs. "northern" states.
We currently live in WA. which is also a no income tax state. My wife is a nurse. She will be taking an almost 50% cut in pay when we move to The Villages.. :faint:

[Marty94]

Your son should have enlisted and went to OCS if qualifies as an officer 01 pay grade is over $5100 monthly.

He would gladly serve, but does not medically qualify.

[Gulfcoast]

All true points, but the worst of all will be the TRUE minimum wage people (not retired people, teens, and others only working for "extras" in their lives) whose wages will be raised to $15 per hour, they are the real losers in this. Others will some how be able to absorb it, but this will only push that class of workers even further down and out of the lower end of the "middle class". It's a shame, a healthy thriving country is one that EXPANDS the "middle class". It will hurt everyone a little, it will hurt the lowest paid among us the hardest. It's sad. I did notice an extremely wealthy Florida resident, one who has pushed so many "progressive" ideas about drug legalization, and others was a powerful force behind this. It was obviously the desire of the majority of Floridians, so, I guess those of us who think it will do more damage than good will just have to wait and see !

I share your concerns about this wage increase and I think you are right - the workers who are supporting themselves and their families on a minimum wage income are going to be hurt the worst by this even if it seems, at first, that the wage increase would be a great thing for them. I think people voted for this increase without really considering (or perhaps understanding) the economic consequences of doing so.

[jimbomaybe]

We already pay 25 for a pizza. If everyone made a living wage we'd have lower taxes and fewer people on welfare. So raise the minimum wage to $30. an hour and we will be in economic heaven

[ruralgoddess]

If one is worth $15 or $20 an hour, most businesses would gladly pay the wage if a person is worth it. A good worker is hard to find. Hard to find those who will show up and hustle. I would much rather pay $15 or $20 then $10. Try hiring 10 people and see how long they will last. The fact is those that are not worth $15 an hour will be out of a job. I have paid employees $20 an hour, but those folks would do 3 times as much work in a week then the lazy ones. The market will pay what a person is worth and if they think that they should be paid more then go find that job. Employers are tired of lazy people who can’t get on the job, or full of drama, and find every excuse to not work. Pay them what their worth and if their not worth it, let them go.
While $15 may seem exorbitant to some, consider what that means for someone working a 40 hour week:

40 hours x $15 = $600/week before withholding

So your monthly gross income would be
$2400 before withholding.

Think long and hard about that meagre amount.

[Girlcopper]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.
It will be given in increments until the full $15 is reached in 2026. Whats the big deal? I doubt your pizza will go to $20 or a donut to $3. What you will see is any benefits being given to workers will be discontinued. During the last raise, Publix cut way down on full time workers and just hired more part timers. No benefits had to be given then and the customer n business didnt suffer.

[Girlcopper]

$15 an hour X 40 hours a week X 50 weeks a year (allowing a two week vacation) = 2000 hours of work per year for $30,000.

$30,000 a year is approximately what I get from Social Security without working. I also have retirement savings. A lot of people in The Villages live on that, or less, but if they do, there’s a good chance they have no mortgage or a small one, and they have Medicare, which is a huge help.

Workers making $30,000 a year pay little to no Federal Income Tax but do pay the Social Security Tax. Workers making $30,000 a year don’t qualify for Medicaid but may qualify for assistance for buying health insurance. They probably no longer qualify for food stamps, or whatever it is called these days. They may no longer qualify for some other government aid that offsets every penny they pay in taxes. They are probably paying a third of their salary in rent. Most of what they don’t spend on rent and utilities goes to buying things. Their buying things keeps the rest of the country producing things to buy. If they make half as much, they buy a lot less.

A family with two workers making $30,000 a year each can afford to buy a house, maybe a small car, be more comfortable. Maybe they get health insurance. They can pay their bills. They pay income tax. They are no longer taking from the government without giving, but are productive, proud, and have a level of freedom from want they don’t have on $30,000 a year, much less less than that. They can do that with high school diplomas, or even without them if they are each earning $15 an hour. Instead of all of us paying, by way of the government, to keep them alive, they too become taxpayers.

I think that is fantastic! What happens sometimes now is that businesses hire people for a wage so low that we the government have to make up the difference. Why should employers get a free ride that way? Wouldn’t you much rather pay for those employees by paying slightly more for products and services than by paying more tax so they can receive more government handouts? A good living wage encourages people to work and lets more people enjoy the fruits of the American Dream we like to talk about. It’s part of making America great for ALL people.
OMG. That took awhile to read and longer to write. Basicly, who cares? If you feel prices of things will now be too high, dont buy it, stay home, cook all your own meals, do your own repairs. If it wasnt announced, you wouldnt even know what minimum wage went to and wouldnt think twice about it

[biker1]

Only 2% of hourly workers are at minimum wage. Of that 2%, about half are between the ages of 16 and 24. Of that 2%, about 30% are working full-time (40 hours) or more. Minimum wage jobs are mostly held by younger people who are starting their careers and working part time.

Minimum wage jobs are primarily entry level jobs and, as such, represent the beginning of a career. Most people don't stay at those low pay jobs for very long; they move up quickly.

A CBO study estimates that changing the Federal minimum wage to $15 per hour in 2025 would increase the wages of about 17 million people but 1.3 million would become jobless. There are consequences, perhaps many unintended consequences, when the Government decides what labor is worth as opposed to letting free market dynamics establish the worth of labor.

While $15 may seem exorbitant to some, consider what that means for someone working a 40 hour week:

40 hours x $15 = $600/week before withholding

So your monthly gross income would be
$2400 before withholding.

Think long and hard about that meagre amount.

[mydavid]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. I dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up. A lot of discontent with China these days, and this is the reason, Americans want cheep products and at the same time chant "Buy American" Can't have it both ways, An American Co. makes a iPhone cup holder that cost three times more then others afford that do the same function, which do you choose

[loweglor]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.
So here is the problem. Some People just don't want to pay for some people to earn a living wage. We have a system that creates wealth for some at the expense of many. What a shame that as a society we haven't evolved enough to change that.

[Jazzman]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.

Florida is a service based economy. IMO it’s fair to expect that employees be paid a higher hourly rate so that they remain with an employer and minimize job hopping. Job hopping results in the employer now having to find a replacement, train that person, etc. The higher wage scenario and job hopping has been happening behind the scene, even here. For example, a service worker here who I know left his employer here in the villages to go work at Target in Lady Lake. The reason, four more dollars per hour and benefits. Yes it will affect small business but here it will be a gradual increase through 2026.

[dewilson58]

employees be paid a higher hourly rate so that they remain with an employer and minimize job hopping.


NOT a benefit of raising min wage. :ohdear:

[La lamy]

I'm all for living wages that make sense for the economy of the day. There's a cost to anything being too cheap. People who can't make ends meet may be more of a problem than us paying a little more to help them live with dignity.

[davephan]

Changes to minimum wage affects not only small business that must absorb or pass on these costs, but will require the federal government to change its pay scale as well. At $15/hr, minimum wage will be significantly greater than an enlisted member of our armed forces and competitive with civil service positions requiring degrees. To put this into context, my son, a mechanical engineer, with an education cost over $300k, was hired by the Dept of the Army three years ago. His designs can be seen in many industries today. His starting salary wasn’t much higher than this approved minimum wage. The government will have a hard time finding college educated students with bright minds that will be willing to accept these positions. Adjustments will have to be made to remain competitive and that cost will be passed on to all taxpayers.

About 90% of the college majors have poor to low return on investment. Many people get a worthless college degree, and end up getting a low wage job that they could have obtained with no college degree.

I worked in low wage jobs for almost two decades, before going to a low cost technical college, and obtained a two year IT degree in one year. My starting wage at the IT job was double what I used to make. After about 15 years on the IT job, I was making 5 to 6 times the customer service job.

People need to invest in themselves to increase their job skills in careers that have a good return on the education investment in time and money.

In the trades, an electrician is equal to 3 carpenters. A plumber is equal to 5 carpenters. Moral of the story, become a plumber, not a carpenter, if you work in the trades.

The $15 wage is not a panacea. Target raised the wages to $15 and hour. At the same time, full time workers became part tie workers with no benefits.

Most people have it within themselves to do much more than they think that they can do. I limited my income for almost two decades, working low wage jobs. People have to acquire the job skills so that they can earn higher incomes.

With Socialism or Communism, everyone is brought down to the low level. Imagine hard working students who get A’s, are given C’s, so that all students can receive a C, even the lazy students, that are unwilling to work hard.

[Bay Kid]

Minimum wages are designed to be for entry level jobs, a starting point. From there you earn your way to better pay.

[Eg_cruz]

They already overcharge you for a donut here at Dunkin Donuts anyway. It's cheaper up north, where minimum wage is higher. Don't blame costs on minimum wage. Blame it on greedy companies that know they can get whatever they charge you, because you're willing to pay it.
Stop it.....do you really feel that way. First The Village retail prices are the highest per square foot then anywhere else, plus they do a triple net lease. So has nothing to do with greedy companies other then the Morris family. Prices will go up and small businesses will have no choice but to close. This amendment helps no one.

[justjim]

It will take six years for Florida to get the minimum wage to 15.00. By then most States will be paying 18.00-20.00. A living wage is necessary for an incentive to get people of “Public Aid”. We “Pay” one way or another. Forty percent of working Americans do not have 400.00 in a rainy day fund and live from payday to payday. Perhaps our school system need to do a better job of teaching basic economics because parents are obviously failing to do what many of our parents did when we were children. Just a thought.

[retiredguy123]

If a $15 minimum wage was mandated and actually enforced, millions of small businesses would be forced to go out of business.

Many business owners don't even make that much money.

[sloanst]

Do you believe that people in Seattle pay double what you pay for coffee and donuts? Come on. You know they have mandatory minimum wage of $15 ... and their economy is going along very nicely. You are being manipulated by fear. Give up the fear and move on.
For those businesses that aren't burned out.:faint:

[dewilson58]

First The Village retail prices are the highest per square foot then anywhere else, plus they do a triple net lease.


:1rotfl::1rotfl:
Stop, Stop.....it hurts too much.
:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Hackercraft]

It’s not here yet but new fast food restaurants are replacing workers with kiosks and automated food assembly machines. Your next Big Mac could be made without ever being touched by a human. One technician per shift could run an entire restaurant.

[dewilson58]

For those businesses that aren't burned out.:faint:
Agree.

Not the community to model.

[sloanst]

Here is the answer to $15/hr. I couldn't have said it better myself.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xq-q6a9tCM)

[jacksonbrown]

Here is the answer to $15/hr. I couldn't have said it better myself.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xq-q6a9tCM)

He obviously never had to make payroll.

[STLRAY]

Many on here have expressed concern that the higher minimum wage will be inflationary. It will, but probably to a lesser degree than many fear. On average restaurants spend 30 percent of sales on payroll. Profit margins are 5 percent. Figure payroll costs will increase about 50 percent when this is fully phased in. (Some employees probably already make more than the new minimum) So, you can expect to see about a 15 percent increase in prices over five years if the owners pass all the costs on to their customers or about three percent per year.

[Going My Way]

I'm all for living wages that make sense for the economy of the day. There's a cost to anything being too cheap. People who can't make ends meet may be more of a problem than us paying a little more to help them live with dignity.

Do you know how many Social Services programs their is for those in need, more then the Middle Class can continue afford..

[P&WBryant]

New Zealand has had a $15 minimum wage for years. And they seem somehow to manage!

[biker1]

Ben Shapiro is a co-founder of The Daily Wire. I believe they have about 75 employees.

He obviously never had to make payroll.

[jimjamuser]

About 90% of the college majors have poor to low return on investment. Many people get a worthless college degree, and end up getting a low wage job that they could have obtained with no college degree.

I worked in low wage jobs for almost two decades, before going to a low cost technical college, and obtained a two year IT degree in one year. My starting wage at the IT job was double what I used to make. After about 15 years on the IT job, I was making 5 to 6 times the customer service job.

People need to invest in themselves to increase their job skills in careers that have a good return on the education investment in time and money.

In the trades, an electrician is equal to 3 carpenters. A plumber is equal to 5 carpenters. Moral of the story, become a plumber, not a carpenter, if you work in the trades.

The $15 wage is not a panacea. Target raised the wages to $15 and hour. At the same time, full time workers became part tie workers with no benefits.

Most people have it within themselves to do much more than they think that they can do. I limited my income for almost two decades, working low wage jobs. People have to acquire the job skills so that they can earn higher incomes.

With Socialism or Communism, everyone is brought down to the low level. Imagine hard working students who get A’s, are given C’s, so that all students can receive a C, even the lazy students, that are unwilling to work hard.
Why do so many people have an UNFOUNDED fear that there is a socialist "behind every bush"? Are the Koch Brothers and others using their money to push that kind of propaganda out of social media, news channels, and some radio programs? It seems to be a fairly recent phenomenon ( last 5 or 10 years). This fear has affected many people in the Miami-Dade area - and spread around the country.

[jacksonbrown]

Ben Shapiro is a co-founder of The Daily Wire. I believe they have about 75 employees.

Sorry, I should have posted that "the first speaker" (who portends to speak for others)....

BTW, Ben Shapiro certainly took him to task.

[Going My Way]

:1rotfl::1rotfl:
Stop, Stop.....it hurts too much.
:1rotfl::1rotfl:

:22yikes: Mr. Helpful . . . :1rotfl::1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

Stop it.....do you really feel that way. First The Village retail prices are the highest per square foot then anywhere else, plus they do a triple net lease. So has nothing to do with greedy companies other then the Morris family. Prices will go up and small businesses will have no choice but to close. This amendment helps no one.
Good info about that "certain family". Good to keep that in perspective.

[biker1]

Oh, yes, I see what you mean now. He is probably just a student.

Ben Shapiro has excellent debating skills.

Sorry, I should have posted that "the first speaker" (who portends to speak for others)....

BTW, Ben Shapiro certainly took him to task.

[jimjamuser]

New Zealand has had a $15 minimum wage for years. And they seem somehow to manage!
New Zealand does better than the US on ALL measures of social well-being and quality of life. That is EASY to Google.

[jimjamuser]

Oh, yes, I see what you mean now. He is probably just a student.

Ben Shapiro has excellent debating skills.
Talking fast and APPEARING to be confident does not necessarily mean that his side of that debate was the correct and empathetic one. If you are arrogant and NOT empathetic, you can bully an audience into believing that you are right (even though wrong). And it is a well-known fact that it is WAY easier to debate the CONSERVATIVE side of any argument. Mr. Shapiro WAS indeed impressive (on the surface), but I imagine that if he took the OPPOSITE side of the debate - that HE would maintain his illusion of being forceful and RIGHT.

Hitler would have been a CHAMPION debater! And probably Stalin. I would NOT have bet against either of them. ......One needs to understand that MIGHT does NOT make RIGHT. Indira Gandhi would have LOST a lot of debates.

[DAVES]

yes it would be nice if everyone could make $15 per hour , but. will you pay $3 for a donut,$20 for pizza. i dont know where this is going to go. can a small shop pay $15?? you all know who pays the $15.... we will. how about all the grass cutters , gate keepers,all the golf course people. all our fees will go up.
My two cents worth.
Far as minimum wage, we look for simple answers to a very complex issue. Choosing say 15.00 an hour. The dollar is not a fixed quantity as is say an inch. Roughly said it takes $6.00 to buy what a dollar did in ???? 1970. People working for 15.00 an hour would likely get food stamps etc. Thus they have more to spend than the $15 they earn. The past amendment is a raise over time.
Is our government predicting, installing, causing further inflation in the future? Fair-fair is in the eye of the beholder. Reality is that if labor costs go up businesses will explore if the job needs to be done and or if a machine can do it. Opportunity? We all walk past it everyday. Success, is not only seeing it but acting on what you see. We all have shoulda, coulda, mighta.

[biker1]

Ben Shapiro is an excellent debater because his arguments are well thought out, he usually presents facts and data, and he uses effective debating strategies. Please stop capitalizing words - it is obnoxious.

Talking fast and APPEARING to be confident does not necessarily mean that his side of that debate was the correct and empathetic one. If you are arrogant and NOT empathetic, you can bully an audience into believing that you are right (even though wrong). And it is a well-known fact that it is WAY easier to debate the CONSERVATIVE side of any argument. Mr. Shapiro WAS indeed impressive (on the surface), but I imagine that if he took the OPPOSITE side of the debate - that HE would maintain his illusion of being forceful and RIGHT.

Hitler would have been a CHAMPION debater! And probably Stalin. I would NOT have bet against either of them. ......One needs to understand that MIGHT does NOT make RIGHT. Indira Gandhi would have LOST a lot of debates.

[Going My Way]

New Zealand does better than the US on ALL measures of social well-being and quality of life. That is EASY to Google.

Maybe because New Zealand don't have as many freeloaders or borders next to 3rd world countries, could that be it?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No prices are not cheaper up north...you count highest TAXED cities, NYC, Boston...your response says it all...you mean the greedy companies that employ everyone? Typical retired person comment...

I'm not retired. I still work. I'm newly transplanted down here, and I know what my grocery bills were in 2018 in Connecticut compared to what they are now in Florida. Prices here in the Villages are ridiculous. Even something as basic as a pound of ground chuck is insane. In order to get the best prices, every week, I have to go to 4 different stores, and take advantage of their rotating sales, and buy mostly store-brand. If I need a particular item that is only sold at one store, and that store charges more for everything else, that's a trip to a store for ONE item only.

Gas, time, effort, mileage on my car (or golf cart) all add up. Where I used to live in Connecticut, I could get everything I wanted at 2 different stores, each within a mile of each other. I could walk to one of them, and it was a 5-minute drive to the other. Quality foods, brand names for most items, specialty items that I usually got were also usually on sale or had coupons.

My usual weekly supermarket trip in Connecticut was $55. My usual weekly supermarket trip in Florida is $70.

Doesn't seem like much - but neither does a $1.44/hour raise from $8.56 to $10/hour. It basically covers the grocery bill increase, and the added cost of gas, time, and mileage to buy them.

And that doesn't even start until next September. The $15/hour doesn't start until September 2016 - almost 7 years from now.

By then, who knows how much it'll cost for just the basic needs in Florida?

[Topspinmo]

I'm not retired. I still work. I'm newly transplanted down here, and I know what my grocery bills were in 2018 in Connecticut compared to what they are now in Florida. Prices here in the Villages are ridiculous. Even something as basic as a pound of ground chuck is insane. In order to get the best prices, every week, I have to go to 4 different stores, and take advantage of their rotating sales, and buy mostly store-brand. If I need a particular item that is only sold at one store, and that store charges more for everything else, that's a trip to a store for ONE item only.

Gas, time, effort, mileage on my car (or golf cart) all add up. Where I used to live in Connecticut, I could get everything I wanted at 2 different stores, each within a mile of each other. I could walk to one of them, and it was a 5-minute drive to the other. Quality foods, brand names for most items, specialty items that I usually got were also usually on sale or had coupons.

My usual weekly supermarket trip in Connecticut was $55. My usual weekly supermarket trip in Florida is $70.

Doesn't seem like much - but neither does a $1.44/hour raise from $8.56 to $10/hour. It basically covers the grocery bill increase, and the added cost of gas, time, and mileage to buy them.

And that doesn't even start until next September. The $15/hour doesn't start until September 2016 - almost 7 years from now.

By then, who knows how much it'll cost for just the basic needs in Florida?

Everybody think there getting break by Florida no income tax? They make it up and more with other taxes.

[retiredguy123]

Everybody think there getting break by Florida no income tax? They make it up and more with other taxes.
Maybe the state does, but, on an individual basis, it depends a lot on what your income is.

[jimjamuser]

My two cents worth.
Far as minimum wage, we look for simple answers to a very complex issue. Choosing say 15.00 an hour. The dollar is not a fixed quantity as is say an inch. Roughly said it takes $6.00 to buy what a dollar did in ???? 1970. People working for 15.00 an hour would likely get food stamps etc. Thus they have more to spend than the $15 they earn. The past amendment is a raise over time.
Is our government predicting, installing, causing further inflation in the future? Fair-fair is in the eye of the beholder. Reality is that if labor costs go up businesses will explore if the job needs to be done and or if a machine can do it. Opportunity? We all walk past it everyday. Success, is not only seeing it but acting on what you see. We all have shoulda, coulda, mighta.
I agree highly with your last 2 sentences. I would extend that to mean that success is a matter of having properly prepared yourself. Then, you try to put your ideas to work for profit in some initial venture. Even good ideas FAIL in the marketplace - there are SO many variables! With most of these variables, you have LITTLE control over. MOST inventors fail their 1st time in the marketplace. ONLY a FEW try over and over until they succeed. Of those few, only another small % succeed in a huge manner. They get rewarded to the tune of millions of dollars - even billions. There seems to involve a lot of LUCK and LUCKY timing in the accumulation of individual wealth. Then, they FIGHT to hold onto that money AND keep it in their FAMILIES. The tax system of any country then becomes their enemy!


The US Estate tax system was DESIGNED (early on) to encourage EVERY generation to be REQUIRED to find success on its own. The US Estate tax was designed to prevent families from passing EXCESSIVE wealth forward forever to their next generations. The income tax System was MEANT to be progressive - more income you pay a greater % to the government. When families pass wealth along untaxed, the ULTIMATE result is KINGS and KINGDOMS - THE VERY problem that the early American settlers were running away from - they FEARED a return to KINGS.

Today the SUPER wealthy have made rules to suit themselves - ways to get around estate taxes - ways to avoid the higher tax brackets. The result is the formation of small kingdoms (you could call them Princedoms also). An example today would be the Koch Brothers, the family of Sheldon Adelson - the Las Vegas big hotel owner, several NYC real estate developer families, and others (some keeping low profiles). One basic principle of government is to TAX the LUCKY individuals and re-distribute (not a dirty word) some wealth from the LUCKY individuals to the less LUCKY individuals. This could be best described as social empathy and fairness. Today the GREED of the LUCKY wealthy ones overpowers their sense of social responsibility and empathy. A wealthy individual that encompasses the American ideals of social responsibility and fairness is Warren Buffet. If ALL the wealthy ONLY had his attitude - The US would be a wonderful COUNTRY. Today the wealthy have allowed their GREED to put the US into a tailspin.

[Pairadocs]

They already overcharge you for a donut here at Dunkin Donuts anyway. It's cheaper up north, where minimum wage is higher. Don't blame costs on minimum wage. Blame it on greedy companies that know they can get whatever they charge you, because you're willing to pay it.

Was once a nearly daily DD customer, never did think the donuts were as good as KK, but we had no KK here so had to settle. But, you are right, the prices (compared to the quality of the products) no longer justifies my business. I have found that KK's do freeze VERY well.....LOL...when I am in Orlando on other errands anyway and purchase them fresh from a 24 hour store (personally don't care for the ones we get here in stores and gas stations). There is a very good non chain doughnut store in Leesburg too !

[jimjamuser]

Maybe because New Zealand don't have as many freeloaders or borders next to 3rd world countries, could that be it?
It may help. Good point!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The minimum wage is not intended for those who are working a full time job and raising a family and have to live on these low wages. It is for entry positions for students, part timers, or for those that are not qualified for jobs paying more, in larger companies these jobs lead to better jobs and in some cases paid college tuition. It is sad to say but there are people out there that cannot be productive enough to earn $15.00/hour. These entry and part time jobs will be reduced to the point that only those who are ambitious, skillful, and hard working will get them, the others will be paid out of the extra taxes the entry level jobs produce while they sit at home having a not so good life. When these jobs are reduced the check out lines, drive through lines, motel check in times, all will be longer and longer.

You are absolutely positively completely and entirely incorrect. Minimum wage originated to provide a living wage for sweatshop workers, who often would work 60-70 hours a week, sometimes not getting paid at all, and always not getting paid enough to provide food for their families. There was also no overtime pay, then. No breaks, and if you had to go to the bathroom too many times during your shift, they would quickly replace you with someone else who was begging for work.

Minimum wage was seen, in part, a response to the labor movement and unions forming all over the country. Eventually the federal government imposed a few more rules, and increased the minimum wage during the Great Depression.

Roosevelt implemented the first attempt at establishing a minimum wage as part of this New Deal in 1933. It took a Supreme Court decision to even determine that Congress had the power to regulate employment conditions. Until then, employers could abuse employees and their work loads however they wanted, and no one could do anything about it.

Minimum wages in 1938 only applied to certain circumstances, and it was expanded in the 1960's. By 1990, minimum wage had increased from 25 cents in 1938 to $3.80. So it took 52 YEARS to get from a quarter, to just under $4/hour.

At that point, inflation had already exceeded the buying power of minimum wage.

It took from 1990 til 2009 - another 19 years, to get to the $7.25 that it has been for the past 11 years. There are also federal regulations with regards to tipped employees, minors, and agricultural workers, so that is already covered by federal law.

Meanwhile, the cost of living and inflation has continued to rise, because (contrary to popular belief) the economy is NOT doing well at all (if it was, all those businesses would've been able to stand by during the worst of the Pandemic shut-downs and re-opened without effort).

Some states have made attempts to catch up with inflation - some have not. Florida is one of the latter. They're not even the worst offenders. But they're pretty bad. This is their opportunity to catch up with most of the rest of the country, and give people a reason to stick around EVEN in traditional low-wage jobs. It also is a good incentive to attract people looking for better careers, who know they have to start at the bottom. Why should they accept $8.56/hour as an entry-level anything, anywhere in the state of Florida, which is culturally backward, educationally sub-par, with hurricane threats in every major hub of civilization on a semi-regular basis every single year - when they can share a flat just outside Boston, or the outskirts of New York City, or the beltway around Charleston - for the same costs of living. with excellent public transportation systems (thus eliminating the need for a car), at much higher wages?

Answer: there's nothing stopping them from doing that now. And that is exactly why Florida is great for retired people - not so great for people just starting out in life and wanting to enter the job market and work their way up. People don't really move to Florida for the income opportunities, unless they're transferring from a place they've already proven themselves.

People move OUT of Florida after graduating college, to find productive and good-paying jobs in their fields, because they know they won't get bubkes here.

[jimjamuser]

I'm not retired. I still work. I'm newly transplanted down here, and I know what my grocery bills were in 2018 in Connecticut compared to what they are now in Florida. Prices here in the Villages are ridiculous. Even something as basic as a pound of ground chuck is insane. In order to get the best prices, every week, I have to go to 4 different stores, and take advantage of their rotating sales, and buy mostly store-brand. If I need a particular item that is only sold at one store, and that store charges more for everything else, that's a trip to a store for ONE item only.

Gas, time, effort, mileage on my car (or golf cart) all add up. Where I used to live in Connecticut, I could get everything I wanted at 2 different stores, each within a mile of each other. I could walk to one of them, and it was a 5-minute drive to the other. Quality foods, brand names for most items, specialty items that I usually got were also usually on sale or had coupons.

My usual weekly supermarket trip in Connecticut was $55. My usual weekly supermarket trip in Florida is $70.

Doesn't seem like much - but neither does a $1.44/hour raise from $8.56 to $10/hour. It basically covers the grocery bill increase, and the added cost of gas, time, and mileage to buy them.

And that doesn't even start until next September. The $15/hour doesn't start until September 2016 - almost 7 years from now.

By then, who knows how much it'll cost for just the basic needs in Florida?
A convincing argument. Well delivered!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Was once a nearly daily DD customer, never did think the donuts were as good as KK, but we had no KK here so had to settle. But, you are right, the prices (compared to the quality of the products) no longer justifies my business. I have found that KK's do freeze VERY well.....LOL...when I am in Orlando on other errands anyway and purchase them fresh from a 24 hour store (personally don't care for the ones we get here in stores and gas stations). There is a very good non chain doughnut store in Leesburg too !

Donuts, to me, are a completely unnecessary "luxury" that I don't miss and can easily do without. And I make better coffee at home, I'll be damned if I'll pay $2.10 for a medium regular, when my morning cappuchino (which you'd probably pay $5 for at Starbucks except they don't use Cafe La Llave or Bustello or similar) only costs me around 40 cents to make.

The reason DD stays in business is because people are willing to pay to have someone else do pedestrian-quality foods at premium prices. If you can afford a $1.50 donut every week, then you can afford a $3.00 donut every other week - or learn how to make your own and have them every day.

[justjim]

About 90% of the college majors have poor to low return on investment. Many people get a worthless college degree, and end up getting a low wage job that they could have obtained with no college degree.

I worked in low wage jobs for almost two decades, before going to a low cost technical college, and obtained a two year IT degree in one year. My starting wage at the IT job was double what I used to make. After about 15 years on the IT job, I was making 5 to 6 times the customer service job.

People need to invest in themselves to increase their job skills in careers that have a good return on the education investment in time and money.

In the trades, an electrician is equal to 3 carpenters. A plumber is equal to 5 carpenters. Moral of the story, become a plumber, not a carpenter, if you work in the trades.

The $15 wage is not a panacea. Target raised the wages to $15 and hour. At the same time, full time workers became part tie workers with no benefits.

Most people have it within themselves to do much more than they think that they can do. I limited my income for almost two decades, working low wage jobs. People have to acquire the job skills so that they can earn higher incomes.

With Socialism or Communism, everyone is brought down to the low level. Imagine hard working students who get A’s, are given C’s, so that all students can receive a C, even the lazy students, that are unwilling to work hard.

With all due respect I would rather have a college degree than not. Statistics show that on the average a college grad earns in a lifetime well over one million dollars more than a high school grad. 75% of all home buyers were college grads in 2016 which is the latest data I found available on a persons ability to purchase a home. It is well known that a college degree is important to having an opportunity to succeed in today’s workforce. It “gets your foot in the door” so to speak. That said, are there other ways to also succeed today? Of course, there are a number of skilled jobs requiring some additional training where an above average wage is available to be earned. And as always, the harder you work the luckier you get. Entrepreneurs who work hard and have unique ideas can be phenomenally successful in today’s business climate.

[jimjamuser]

You are absolutely positively completely and entirely incorrect. Minimum wage originated to provide a living wage for sweatshop workers, who often would work 60-70 hours a week, sometimes not getting paid at all, and always not getting paid enough to provide food for their families. There was also no overtime pay, then. No breaks, and if you had to go to the bathroom too many times during your shift, they would quickly replace you with someone else who was begging for work.

Minimum wage was seen, in part, a response to the labor movement and unions forming all over the country. Eventually the federal government imposed a few more rules, and increased the minimum wage during the Great Depression.

Roosevelt implemented the first attempt at establishing a minimum wage as part of this New Deal in 1933. It took a Supreme Court decision to even determine that Congress had the power to regulate employment conditions. Until then, employers could abuse employees and their work loads however they wanted, and no one could do anything about it.

Minimum wages in 1938 only applied to certain circumstances, and it was expanded in the 1960's. By 1990, minimum wage had increased from 25 cents in 1938 to $3.80. So it took 52 YEARS to get from a quarter, to just under $4/hour.

At that point, inflation had already exceeded the buying power of minimum wage.

It took from 1990 til 2009 - another 19 years, to get to the $7.25 that it has been for the past 11 years. There are also federal regulations with regards to tipped employees, minors, and agricultural workers, so that is already covered by federal law.

Meanwhile, the cost of living and inflation has continued to rise, because (contrary to popular belief) the economy is NOT doing well at all (if it was, all those businesses would've been able to stand by during the worst of the Pandemic shut-downs and re-opened without effort).

Some states have made attempts to catch up with inflation - some have not. Florida is one of the latter. They're not even the worst offenders. But they're pretty bad. This is their opportunity to catch up with most of the rest of the country, and give people a reason to stick around EVEN in traditional low-wage jobs. It also is a good incentive to attract people looking for better careers, who know they have to start at the bottom. Why should they accept $8.56/hour as an entry-level anything, anywhere in the state of Florida, which is culturally backward, educationally sub-par, with hurricane threats in every major hub of civilization on a semi-regular basis every single year - when they can share a flat just outside Boston, or the outskirts of New York City, or the beltway around Charleston - for the same costs of living. with excellent public transportation systems (thus eliminating the need for a car), at much higher wages?

Answer: there's nothing stopping them from doing that now. And that is exactly why Florida is great for retired people - not so great for people just starting out in life and wanting to enter the job market and work their way up. People don't really move to Florida for the income opportunities, unless they're transferring from a place they've already proven themselves.

People move OUT of Florida after graduating college, to find productive and good-paying jobs in their fields, because they know they won't get bubkes here.
WOW! ( I was told NOT to capitalize, but I could not help myself - the DEVIL made me do it). A VERY impressive History lesson. Plus seeing both the US and Florida in a realistic way. Very WOW!

[retiredguy123]

New Zealand has had a $15 minimum wage for years. And they seem somehow to manage!
Apples and oranges. Try to move to New Zealand if you have no skills and can't even speak the language.

[Pairadocs]

New Zealand does better than the US on ALL measures of social well-being and quality of life. That is EASY to Google.

Perhaps more people will now consider retiring there (to New Zealand). They are a leading country in literacy too, so those who have always had a nagging feeling that there are many more attractive countries than the United States, will seriously consider not suffering away their best years here ? Years ago when I was really not near retirement, many near retirement at the university where I was on faculty were making plans to retire in Mexico. I believe if people made more decisions based on their own personal desires, political leanings, comfort zone, and socioeconomic preferences, we'd be a much more peaceful, homogeneous (regardless of our cultural roots, colors, or religions), and just plain happy country. But people continue to live in great stress and unhappiness, spending their lives preferring to complain and/or just living in envy of what they "could" have if only they were in --------- (fill in the blank). It's the old old "grass is greener" saying, and perhaps it IS GREENER, so why not take the initiative to go where there is the best fit for you ! I am NOT saying the old "if you don't like it get OUT", not at all, just that people should put more thought into their own life and happiness than they do when choosing a location, city or country to live in.

[davephan]

New Zealand does better than the US on ALL measures of social well-being and quality of life. That is EASY to Google.

Have you ever visited New Zealand and Australia? I have. The standard of living is drastically lower in New Zealand than Australia, and the standard of living in Australia is drastically lower than in the US.

Gasoline is about $9 to $10 a gallon in New Zealand. A shirt in New Zealand costs about $100. The same shirt in the US is $16. An electric food mixer that costs about $280 in the US, costs $1,500 in New Zealand. All those are prices converted to USD and the gallon. As a result of the extremely high prices in New Zealand, the standard of living is drastically lower than in the US.

New Zealand and Australia are places to visit. I’d never ever want to live there. The governments in both countries are extremely liberal too. If you drive a car, minor violations get you “points”. Only a few points, and you can’t drive for two years!

[Gulfcoast]

In Florida students can begin earning college credit in HS through dual enrollment and they can also earn Bright Futures merit scholarships (based on HS GPA, test scores, volunteer hours) paid for by the state's lottery sale proceeds to use after graduation - both in college and in the trade schools. It's a terrific deal for students here in Florida.

The lower minimum wage also attracts businesses to Florida which means more jobs and more opportunities for full time restaurant/retail employees to advance in their jobs. That is also a good deal for workers even if it might take some time on the job to advance. People can and do support themselves on fast food and retail wages here in the state of Florida.

Jacking up the minimum wage to $15/hr over the next 5 years might seem like a great idea. But when businesses pull out of Florida or shut down altogether that will take away both jobs and advancement opportunities. It will also raise the cost of goods/services/housing across the board. After all, if a burger flipper gets $15/hr, jobs requiring college degrees will need to pay much better than that. Rents go up, services get pricier, goods get more expensive and the low wage earners and retirees living on a fixed income are worse off than before.

[Pairadocs]

Donuts, to me, are a completely unnecessary "luxury" that I don't miss and can easily do without. And I make better coffee at home, I'll be damned if I'll pay $2.10 for a medium regular, when my morning cappuchino (which you'd probably pay $5 for at Starbucks except they don't use Cafe La Llave or Bustello or similar) only costs me around 40 cents to make.

The reason DD stays in business is because people are willing to pay to have someone else do pedestrian-quality foods at premium prices. If you can afford a $1.50 donut every week, then you can afford a $3.00 donut every other week - or learn how to make your own and have them every day.

Absolutely, did not mean to imply in any way that I do not support capitalism and owner control of their private business. Like you have, and I have, each makes their own decision if/when, the product or service is not worth the price. Basic economics beats all the arguments this way or that, every time. If a person is willing to pay $1.50 for a cup of coffee (that also covers a certain "social" note of being in a community gathering place, and a small premium for "rental" of a chair or booth for a pass time one values, and that cup goes to $2.25, the same measure of social pleasure combined with the actual product, looses it's "value" to that individual, and..... when a certain percentage of people begin to feel that way, business and profits go "down".... I know in the villages many people I used to see in the mornings have moved or don't come at all. McDonald's I am told, has benefited from the price increase at so many places.... however, ALL of this was taking place before the "China virus", who knows where it all stands now. Homemade yeast doughnuts are WONDERFUL... God bless my mom who would go through all that for us at least twice a month..... "back then in the good 'ol days !"

[Pairadocs]

About 90% of the college majors have poor to low return on investment. Many people get a worthless college degree, and end up getting a low wage job that they could have obtained with no college degree.

I worked in low wage jobs for almost two decades, before going to a low cost technical college, and obtained a two year IT degree in one year. My starting wage at the IT job was double what I used to make. After about 15 years on the IT job, I was making 5 to 6 times the customer service job.

People need to invest in themselves to increase their job skills in careers that have a good return on the education investment in time and money.

In the trades, an electrician is equal to 3 carpenters. A plumber is equal to 5 carpenters. Moral of the story, become a plumber, not a carpenter, if you work in the trades.

The $15 wage is not a panacea. Target raised the wages to $15 and hour. At the same time, full time workers became part tie workers with no benefits.

Most people have it within themselves to do much more than they think that they can do. I limited my income for almost two decades, working low wage jobs. People have to acquire the job skills so that they can earn higher incomes.

With Socialism or Communism, everyone is brought down to the low level. Imagine hard working students who get A’s, are given C’s, so that all students can receive a C, even the lazy students, that are unwilling to work hard.


Totally agree with you with one exception that is a bit misleading. Definitely not 90% of college grads make a "bad" investment. If you look deeper, sadly, to many students choose the wrong major IF pay back is their major focus. We always had many students who were only interested in degrees in social work, marketing, and others. While fine majors, follow you heart's desire, they are usually warned (not always) that they have not chosen high paying fields (if that is what they are seeking, return on investment). Then, there are many who do not choose their college or university carefully. Not necessary to go Ivy League or top 10, but the problem comes in when students are not detailed in researching things like accreditation, research and writing recognition of faculty (again, MANY FINE small schools have outstanding faculty), and much more. So many "invest" in schools with poor track records of placement assistance, lack of accreditation, and now the valuable outreach of making the higher education experience available to a larger audience via technology, has resulted in a much devalued educational experience and ultimately a "useless" degree (thought ALL learning is valuable in that it enriches the individual's personal life and self-esteem). But, 90% figure of "useless" degrees and debt is too high, not accurate. Same exists in "trade" schools, must be very careful, some are very valuable, some are definitely NOT ! Regarding your comment about people investing in themselves, RIGHT ON ! Have you noticed (those of you who have traveled, lived, and studied abroad a great deal) that our country seems to be one where people are more willing to invest in hobbies, and nicer tech items, clothing, shoes, etc. than they are in themselves ? Not a condemnation, just an observation. Last comment on your post. I believe the reason so many people do not truly understand the repercussions of socialism and the progression to communism (not due to basic ideology but due to the pure greed and ambition of those who feel the power of being "in charge" of so many) is because so many have NOT actually known someone who lived under such systems, who have personal knowledge. Here in Florida we have the advantage of actually knowing people who have lived in Cuba, Venezuela, and many island and central American countries, as well as those from various European autocratic governments. Once people have a personal contact/friend who has actually known that life, their perspective changes and they begin to really understand.

[Hifred]

There are exceptions to the minimum wage law so donuts, ice cream cones and hamburger prices don't need to rise like the person posting suggested. Student workers, tipped employees, workers under the age of 20 and salaried employees don't fall under the minimum wage laws.

[JoMar]

I agree highly with your last 2 sentences. I would extend that to mean that success is a matter of having properly prepared yourself. Then, you try to put your ideas to work for profit in some initial venture. Even good ideas FAIL in the marketplace - there are SO many variables! With most of these variables, you have LITTLE control over. MOST inventors fail their 1st time in the marketplace. ONLY a FEW try over and over until they succeed. Of those few, only another small % succeed in a huge manner. They get rewarded to the tune of millions of dollars - even billions. There seems to involve a lot of LUCK and LUCKY timing in the accumulation of individual wealth. Then, they FIGHT to hold onto that money AND keep it in their FAMILIES. The tax system of any country then becomes their enemy!


The US Estate tax system was DESIGNED (early on) to encourage EVERY generation to be REQUIRED to find success on its own. The US Estate tax was designed to prevent families from passing EXCESSIVE wealth forward forever to their next generations. The income tax System was MEANT to be progressive - more income you pay a greater % to the government. When families pass wealth along untaxed, the ULTIMATE result is KINGS and KINGDOMS - THE VERY problem that the early American settlers were running away from - they FEARED a return to KINGS.

Today the SUPER wealthy have made rules to suit themselves - ways to get around estate taxes - ways to avoid the higher tax brackets. The result is the formation of small kingdoms (you could call them Princedoms also). An example today would be the Koch Brothers, the family of Sheldon Adelson - the Las Vegas big hotel owner, several NYC real estate developer families, and others (some keeping low profiles). One basic principle of government is to TAX the LUCKY individuals and re-distribute (not a dirty word) some wealth from the LUCKY individuals to the less LUCKY individuals. This could be best described as social empathy and fairness. Today the GREED of the LUCKY wealthy ones overpowers their sense of social responsibility and empathy. A wealthy individual that encompasses the American ideals of social responsibility and fairness is Warren Buffet. If ALL the wealthy ONLY had his attitude - The US would be a wonderful COUNTRY. Today the wealthy have allowed their GREED to put the US into a tailspin.

Pretty sure you were not one of LUCKY individuals which makes your post, though slightly ignorant, understandable.

[jimjamuser]

Perhaps more people will now consider retiring there (to New Zealand). They are a leading country in literacy too, so those who have always had a nagging feeling that there are many more attractive countries than the United States, will seriously consider not suffering away their best years here ? Years ago when I was really not near retirement, many near retirement at the university where I was on faculty were making plans to retire in Mexico. I believe if people made more decisions based on their own personal desires, political leanings, comfort zone, and socioeconomic preferences, we'd be a much more peaceful, homogeneous (regardless of our cultural roots, colors, or religions), and just plain happy country. But people continue to live in great stress and unhappiness, spending their lives preferring to complain and/or just living in envy of what they "could" have if only they were in --------- (fill in the blank). It's the old old "grass is greener" saying, and perhaps it IS GREENER, so why not take the initiative to go where there is the best fit for you ! I am NOT saying the old "if you don't like it get OUT", not at all, just that people should put more thought into their own life and happiness than they do when choosing a location, city or country to live in.
I agree. A very well done and thought-provoking post.

[MareL]

We currently live in WA. which is also a no income tax state. My wife is a nurse. She will be taking an almost 50% cut in pay when we move to The Villages.. :faint:

I moved here from Az. My daughter & Grandson moved with me. She is a Certified Medical Assistant which means she has student loans to pay. In Az she was making $16/hr and had 3 1/2 yrs experience. Here DOCTOR offices were offering her $10. She is a single parent. She bought a small house with the Gov's help (due to low income). It is actually less expensive for her to make mortgage payments than it was to pay Rent. With all the elderly here in Fl, where would these Dr's be without their Medical Assistants running their offices? But they offer such low salaries because they can get away with it. After living here for almost 3 yrs, she has FINALLY found an office that pays a decent salary of $15/hour.

[jimjamuser]

Have you ever visited New Zealand and Australia? I have. The standard of living is drastically lower in New Zealand than Australia, and the standard of living in Australia is drastically lower than in the US.

Gasoline is about $9 to $10 a gallon in New Zealand. A shirt in New Zealand costs about $100. The same shirt in the US is $16. An electric food mixer that costs about $280 in the US, costs $1,500 in New Zealand. All those are prices converted to USD and the gallon. As a result of the extremely high prices in New Zealand, the standard of living is drastically lower than in the US.

New Zealand and Australia are places to visit. I’d never ever want to live there. The governments in both countries are extremely liberal too. If you drive a car, minor violations get you “points”. Only a few points, and you can’t drive for two years!
Standard of living : The US ranks around 30th in the world in the World list of the standard of living. There are separate categories for "infant mortality", which tells you about Health care. There are many other categories, but its PURPOSE is to provide a yardstick to measure or compare various countries. It is very informative. The Scandinavian countries are at the top. I believe that Canada is about # 11. Not sure where New Zealand is - I have not looked at that list in about 6 months. Had no reason to.

Liberals and car accident : If New Zealand is a liberal country, then I would LOVE to live there. So smart! As to they take away a person's driver's license for 2 years because they were caught driving badly, I would also LOVE that mentality towards driver safety. A teenager in the US that CAUSED a traffic accident SHOULD have their license taken away for 2 years. Then, they would NEVER forget it - which may stop them from driving drunk in their future life and KILLING someone. I would NOT like to be killed by a bad driver, would you? A liberal, country of GOOD drivers - what's NOT to like? Go New Zealand, you rule!

[jimjamuser]

Totally agree with you with one exception that is a bit misleading. Definitely not 90% of college grads make a "bad" investment. If you look deeper, sadly, to many students choose the wrong major IF pay back is their major focus. We always had many students who were only interested in degrees in social work, marketing, and others. While fine majors, follow you heart's desire, they are usually warned (not always) that they have not chosen high paying fields (if that is what they are seeking, return on investment). Then, there are many who do not choose their college or university carefully. Not necessary to go Ivy League or top 10, but the problem comes in when students are not detailed in researching things like accreditation, research and writing recognition of faculty (again, MANY FINE small schools have outstanding faculty), and much more. So many "invest" in schools with poor track records of placement assistance, lack of accreditation, and now the valuable outreach of making the higher education experience available to a larger audience via technology, has resulted in a much devalued educational experience and ultimately a "useless" degree (thought ALL learning is valuable in that it enriches the individual's personal life and self-esteem). But, 90% figure of "useless" degrees and debt is too high, not accurate. Same exists in "trade" schools, must be very careful, some are very valuable, some are definitely NOT ! Regarding your comment about people investing in themselves, RIGHT ON ! Have you noticed (those of you who have traveled, lived, and studied abroad a great deal) that our country seems to be one where people are more willing to invest in hobbies, and nicer tech items, clothing, shoes, etc. than they are in themselves ? Not a condemnation, just an observation. Last comment on your post. I believe the reason so many people do not truly understand the repercussions of socialism and the progression to communism (not due to basic ideology but due to the pure greed and ambition of those who feel the power of being "in charge" of so many) is because so many have NOT actually known someone who lived under such systems, who have personal knowledge. Here in Florida we have the advantage of actually knowing people who have lived in Cuba, Venezuela, and many island and central American countries, as well as those from various European autocratic governments. Once people have a personal contact/friend who has actually known that life, their perspective changes and they begin to really understand.
Yes, communism is bad. WE have a greater chance of going off the deep end in the OTHER direction. I agree with ALL the rest of that good discussion.

[jimjamuser]

Apples and oranges. Try to move to New Zealand if you have no skills and can't even speak the language.
Apples and oranges and other fancy fruit.....I looked at New Zealand that way.......by the by they speak English in New Zealand.

[davephan]

Standard of living : The US ranks around 30th in the world in the World list of the standard of living. There are separate categories for "infant mortality", which tells you about Health care. There are many other categories, but its PURPOSE is to provide a yardstick to measure or compare various countries. It is very informative. The Scandinavian countries are at the top. I believe that Canada is about # 11. Not sure where New Zealand is - I have not looked at that list in about 6 months. Had no reason to.

Liberals and car accident : If New Zealand is a liberal country, then I would LOVE to live there. So smart! As to they take away a person's driver's license for 2 years because they were caught driving badly, I would also LOVE that mentality towards driver safety. A teenager in the US that CAUSED a traffic accident SHOULD have their license taken away for 2 years. Then, they would NEVER forget it - which may stop them from driving drunk in their future life and KILLING someone. I would NOT like to be killed by a bad driver, would you? A liberal, country of GOOD drivers - what's NOT to like? Go New Zealand, you rule!

You get “points” for tiny infractions. Such as stopping a little too close to an intersection. Going a tiny amount above the speed limit in a school zone. Not coming to a full stop at a stop sign. I’m not talking about major things, like DWI, totally reckless speeding, etc. The government is a nanny state in New Zealand.

A large number of people want to leave New Zealand to go to Australia because the wages/costs increase their standard of living significantly.

A tiny two bedroom, one bathroom condo costs about $500K and a tiny home costs over $1M. The equivalent home could be found for about $250K.

The food costs were at least double, maybe triple.

But New Zealand and Australia are great places to visit. But be prepared to spend a lot of money on that trip!

[davephan]

Apples and oranges and other fancy fruit.....I looked at New Zealand that way.......by the by they speak English in New Zealand.

They do speak English in New Zealand, but with a significant accent. Not as thick an accident as the UK.

[jimjamuser]

Pretty sure you were not one of LUCKY individuals which makes your post, though slightly ignorant, understandable.
Thank you! Saying that I am only SLIGHTLY ignorant is the BEST thing anyone has said to me in years. I have real tears in my eyes. This IS an emotional moment. I could fall in LOVE. .......I remember back.....I got a term paper back from an English Professor with a C+ grade on it and the message......"only slightly ignorant".....
..........Those were the days, my friend ......we wrote and never won....

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Many on here have expressed concern that the higher minimum wage will be inflationary. It will, but probably to a lesser degree than many fear. On average restaurants spend 30 percent of sales on payroll. Profit margins are 5 percent. Figure payroll costs will increase about 50 percent when this is fully phased in. (Some employees probably already make more than the new minimum) So, you can expect to see about a 15 percent increase in prices over five years if the owners pass all the costs on to their customers or about three percent per year.

3 percent a year and inflation right now is 1.6%, and social security increase for next year is 1.3%, so you have a small loss of purchasing power at a restaurant. However, a healthy economy has at minimum a 2% inflation rate, or higher, as stated by the goals of the federal reserve.

What is not measured very well, is the economics of price stability. If prices are to remain flat, and corporations want to grow income, there are only two answers, more customers, or cutting costs. Cutting costs involve eliminating jobs, and substitution of cheaper ingredients. . both of those do not have unlimited opportunities to growth.

So, in the end, from behavioral economics, is to have inflation run between 2 and 3% with salaries increase about the same, so that citizens see a wage increase, they feel good, and they can still afford the same items. . . not bad feelings. . . and companies can grow revenue a small amount, still good.

If you want more, you have to work harder or smarter, but inflation and price increases at the current level are not a significant business killer, as some wildly generalized predictions have been posted.

finance guy

[jimjamuser]

3 percent a year and inflation right now is 1.6%, and social security increase for next year is 1.3%, so you have a small loss of purchasing power at a restaurant. However, a healthy economy has at minimum a 2% inflation rate, or higher, as stated by the goals of the federal reserve.

What is not measured very well, is the economics of price stability. If prices are to remain flat, and corporations want to grow income, there are only two answers, more customers, or cutting costs. Cutting costs involve eliminating jobs, and substitution of cheaper ingredients. . both of those do not have unlimited opportunities to growth.

So, in the end, from behavioral economics, is to have inflation run between 2 and 3% with salaries increase about the same, so that citizens see a wage increase, they feel good, and they can still afford the same items. . . not bad feelings. . . and companies can grow revenue a small amount, still good.

If you want more, you have to work harder or smarter, but inflation and price increases at the current level are not a significant business killer, as some wildly generalized predictions have been posted.

finance guy
Absolutely correct.as to the situation TODAY using standard economic theory. Interest rates are low and the Fed is under strong pressure to keep it that way. That could change with changes in Washington. Also, CV (if unresolved in 2021) will / (or could) cause a DISTORTION in standard economic theory. WE could have negative interest rates or rampant inflation in 2021. Many Historians believe that in the US and the world there will be normal History before CV and strange, distorted History after CV. It could be that big of a factor. China could emerge the dominant economic country.

[Pairadocs]

In the 50's a carpenter could have a house, a wife that didn't work and put his kids through college before he retired. Wages started to stagnate as cola went up. By the 70's double income households became the norm as more women entered the workforce to maintain their lifestyle. The 80's brought on credit debt to keep things going. The wage divide has increased in non-union companies between the top earners and the bottom dwellers. The minimum wage increases are at least a decade apart but cola keeps chugging along so each year you technically make less money if you're paid a minimum wage.
My mother worked for minimum wages her whole life, raised two kids without a father and died without a funeral. Life was a struggle and homelessness was a yearly experience. Going days without eating, no heat in the winter or a/c in the summer.

I think the minimum wage should be a living wage. Take the average 1 bedroom apartment, the cost to live in it and the bare minimum it takes to survive in that state, divide that into an hourly pay and set that as the minimum wage for that state.

The last job I had the CEO made 8 million a year and got a 12 million dollar bonus. The workers paid more for their Healthcare. Seems fair.

Apart from the "arguments" concerning effects, pro and con, of minimum wage, I would like to salute you. I, like you and many here who have commented, have had some rough times, but to go days without eating (and probably those were the days when you were not fed anything at public schools either), and to live in a cold climate with no heat at all, is a testimony to you and your determination (which you must have had in spades to be able to retire and enjoy the life we have here), and hard work. It made me remember what my mother told me, no matter how difficult we had it (mother also widowed and with no particular skills plus did not even drive !), that there is always someone who has it tougher. Good for you, if only these days people had what you had inside to overcome such a horrific life, and not just to survive, but to truly overcome as you have, such people today who take personal responsibility and don't look to the government to improve their lot in life, are rare, and you and others in "our generation", perhaps a buzz word today but so true, are among the hearty, and determined, folks who really made this country what it is. Imagine being not only without food for days as you were, and without heat or shelter, and then taking off in a wagon to the complete unknown in search of a better life. Hope you and I are not a "dying breed", but I fear younger folks today could not make it.

[Pairadocs]

If one is worth $15 or $20 an hour, most businesses would gladly pay the wage if a person is worth it. A good worker is hard to find. Hard to find those who will show up and hustle. I would much rather pay $15 or $20 then $10. Try hiring 10 people and see how long they will last. The fact is those that are not worth $15 an hour will be out of a job. I have paid employees $20 an hour, but those folks would do 3 times as much work in a week then the lazy ones. The market will pay what a person is worth and if they think that they should be paid more then go find that job. Employers are tired of lazy people who can’t get on the job, or full of drama, and find every excuse to not work. Pay them what their worth and if their not worth it, let them go.


I don't disagree at all, it's just that sometimes that is very difficult to do. For a number of years I hired individuals for positions in public schools, from teaching to class room assistants, from custodians to clerical people. It was extremely difficult to hire and KEEP good class room assistants for the teaching staff. They were paid minimum wage as per the union dictates. Since they were not highly paid, many thought nothing of picking up personal packages, making trips to the post office, even picking up dry cleaning and dropping off checks to pay utility bills, all on paid time. Yet, I was forbidden to raise the wages of those assistants who went out of their way to help the classroom teachers, who often stayed long hours with no hourly wages, to get ready for a special event for parents or the community. In other words, when every one must be treated "evenly", "fairly as some call it", there is no incentive to excel, to go the extra mile as you pointed out. Everyone was still going to make $8 an hour, and the chances of loosing your job for doing personal errands on paid time ? No possibility ! The time and effort, plus the amount of taxpayer MONEY put into doing background checks and then paid training hours required to instill the skills needed to work with young students, guarantees job security. It's ALL INSIDE the individual, some will always give their all and do their best and more. Others will get by with as little as possible. It's in every setting, from hospitals to schools, from restaurants to factory floors. It's a difficult quality to "screen" for. Most individuals are able to pass personal interviews and convince the interviewer they are dedicated, hard working, individuals who would never attempt to "cheat" their employer out of the time the paid for.

As the write above pointed out, it takes a good sized pool of individuals to find a few responable individuals, and when you do, you "should" (but can't always) be able to reward them with higher wages; if only as an example to others that hard work and dedication does pay off ! A "chart" or "agreement", that gives the specific amount you will be paid each hour and for each year of work for an organization, regardless of your "hustle" as the writer above called it, only guarantees mediocre performance from "some" (never ALL) folks, while others will always give 125%, rather they are having a "bad hair day or a migraine day". Never could find a way around that in my personal administrative experience. From the CEO and CFO, to the support workers, incentives, in the form of $$$'s, work ! It's a powerful motivator, just profuse "thanks" are not always enough.

[Pairadocs]

I don’t know what part of “up north” you are referring too, but I’ve lived in 4 up north states and not one of them was less costly than Florida. Three times property taxes than here in 2 of those states, and state income tax. Maybe a gallon of milk was less or a loaf of bread but pretty sure I can handle that over property taxes!

Oh how right YOU ARE ! Good grief, and one more point, not only the taxes taxes taxes, and getting LESS for all those taxes, but also you forgot to mention taxing your pensions to the hilt too. I know, probably people who came from (just a guess, maybe Wyoming, South Dakota, I don't know, but I have not found a less expensive location (though friends have told me Texas is even more affordable). Family members who "thought" Arkansas would be a good choice over Michigan for retirement, really experienced a shock, and yesterday they got another tax raise... so don't look that direction if you are trying to get out of Florida, but I don't blame anyone for trying to do the best they can for themselves !

[Pairadocs]

R u nuts ? I live in NJ and I can tell you , nothing is more expensive in Florida !

Are you serious, or just making a little levity in these depressing times ? If you are really serious, try Illinois or Michigan, you'll really find you can appreciate Florida after that. Can't speak for N.J., but if it is really that inexpensive, since it does have an ocean, I would consider living there !

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Absolutely, did not mean to imply in any way that I do not support capitalism and owner control of their private business. Like you have, and I have, each makes their own decision if/when, the product or service is not worth the price. Basic economics beats all the arguments this way or that, every time. If a person is willing to pay $1.50 for a cup of coffee (that also covers a certain "social" note of being in a community gathering place, and a small premium for "rental" of a chair or booth for a pass time one values, and that cup goes to $2.25, the same measure of social pleasure combined with the actual product, looses it's "value" to that individual, and..... when a certain percentage of people begin to feel that way, business and profits go "down".... I know in the villages many people I used to see in the mornings have moved or don't come at all. McDonald's I am told, has benefited from the price increase at so many places.... however, ALL of this was taking place before the "China virus", who knows where it all stands now. Homemade yeast doughnuts are WONDERFUL... God bless my mom who would go through all that for us at least twice a month..... "back then in the good 'ol days !"

Except we all know this is false. It sounds great on paper but it doesn't work in reality.

Examples: The price of a Big Mac at McDonald's. It started at a national average of $1.60 in 1986. It's now at around $4.93, only 34 years later. In 1986, minimum wage was $3.35/hour. So a Big Mac would cost you just under half an hour's pay, in 1986, if you were earning minimum wage.

Today, with *federal* minimum wage at $7.25/hour, you'd be dishing out around 2/3 of your hour's pay for the same sandwich. With the Florida minimum wage of $8.56/hour, you're still paying more than half an hour's pay for that sandwich, that cost less than a half hour's pay in 1986.

Your buying power has weakened over the years. And that's just Big Macs. Now imagine a family of 4 wanting to treat themselves for Dad's birthday. A once a year occasion. Two Big Macs - one for each parent. A Happy Meal for the youngest kid, a Fishwich for the second kid, and a large fry for the parents and older kid to share. Plus a chocolate shake for dad since it's his birthday, and 2 sodas for the older kid and mom. Youngest kid gets a drink with the Happy Meal price.

In 1986 you could get a Big Mac, supersize fry, and a coke - all in a box for $2.59. Add another Big Mac for $1.60, Fishwich was a 95 cents, a chocolate shake for 79 cents, and since that coke is supersized, get 2 straws so the older kid can share it. The Happy Meal was $1.89.

$2.59 + 1.60 + .79 + 1.89 + .95 = $7.82 for a family of 4 to celebrate Dad's birthday at McDonald's in 1986.

Compare to today: A Big Mac meal (medium) is $6.71 with medium soda and medium fry. A second Big Mac, on its own, is $4.47. Fishwich is $4.24, and you'll still need another fry; a medium runs $2.00. A cheeseburger Happy Meal is $3.12. Don't forget the chocolate shake...a medium is $2.90. That's $23.44 for a family of 4 to celebrate Dad's birthday at McDonald's.

While that doesn't sound like a lot to you and me and most of the people living in the Villages, remember minimum wage - in 1986, at $3.35/hour, the $7.82 for the family of 4 would be 2 hours and 20 minutes pay, to cover the cost.

In 2020, in Florida at $8.56/hour, it'll take around 2 hours and 50 minutes to cover the cost. And you get less food (Big Macs are smaller, so are the fish sandwiches), and have to order an extra fry to get a similar deal.

Again - that's just McDonald's. You can look at pretty much anything, comparing it to when minimum wage was lower, and the current minimum wage, and you'll find that your dollar doesn't buy as much as it used to buy back then, overall. Wages have not kept up with costs. They just flat out haven't. The CEO salaries have gone up - the franchise owner revenue has gone up. The wealthy people who run things are MUCH wealthier than ever before, thanks in part to enormous tax write-offs and stock dividends in the companies they represent. But the workers don't get any of that. And it's the workers who are BUYING those Big Macs. Other than a certain person occupying the white house, there really aren't that many rich people who eat fast food on a regular basis. Most of them make use of their private chefs. Who are ALSO paid more than the guy flipping burgers at McDonald's.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Apart from the "arguments" concerning effects, pro and con, of minimum wage, I would like to salute you. I, like you and many here who have commented, have had some rough times, but to go days without eating (and probably those were the days when you were not fed anything at public schools either), and to live in a cold climate with no heat at all, is a testimony to you and your determination (which you must have had in spades to be able to retire and enjoy the life we have here), and hard work. It made me remember what my mother told me, no matter how difficult we had it (mother also widowed and with no particular skills plus did not even drive !), that there is always someone who has it tougher. Good for you, if only these days people had what you had inside to overcome such a horrific life, and not just to survive, but to truly overcome as you have, such people today who take personal responsibility and don't look to the government to improve their lot in life, are rare, and you and others in "our generation", perhaps a buzz word today but so true, are among the hearty, and determined, folks who really made this country what it is. Imagine being not only without food for days as you were, and without heat or shelter, and then taking off in a wagon to the complete unknown in search of a better life. Hope you and I are not a "dying breed", but I fear younger folks today could not make it.

No one should HAVE to live like that. That's the whole point of minimum wage. That's why it was implemented in the first place, and that's what people are fighting for now. The right for their kids to NOT have to endure what this person endured in his life when he (or she?) was a kid. No child should have to live in poverty, because no parent should have to decide between feeding their kids or paying rent, while working 2 20-hour jobs with no benefits, because they were unfortunate enough to be born the wrong color, with parents who spoke with the wrong accent, or the white upstanding working-class Christian parents who lived in the wrong neighborhood, and therefore couldn't get their kids to the right elementary schools.

If you are "less than" as a result of your upbringing, it's very difficult to rise above when society keeps trying to keep you down. The wealthy don't WANT poor people to get wealthy, because then they'd be competing for the wealth. That is why minimum wage is no longer a living wage. The Flemingtons of the Houston Flemingtons, don't want to have to pay their live-in nanny a living wage, because it would mean their nanny might dare to ask for an extra day off - since they can actually afford it now.

[Pairadocs]

Thank you so much ! That’s exactly right it’s not the wages paid it’s the profits kept ! Almost every state has higher minimum wages and their prices are less. Look how expensive Public is ! Kroger’s would mop the floor here!

This is a unique environment also as all the local business pay much higher rent and royalties to the Morse family/ Villages. Some how they’ve managed to price gouge. As the place gets larger non of the operating costs go down in fact the amenity bill is now around 210-230 a month.

I don't know about Publix (which I think you meant ?) being more expensive, sure not to me, but we're all from various locations so I suppose that could be true for you. But your point about the Morris family, and free enterprise, and capitalism in general, it's an age old argument and many on here will defend socialism as the only way to go, while others will make valid arguments about how well capitalism has worked for us. While we certainly have our poor and homeless, just spending time a few months a year traveling the world will convince most just how well a democratic republic form of government with a capitalistic form of commerce, has served to us so well even many of our poorest citizens (again, not all) even have some type of vehicle, a TV that may not be the newest and best, a cell phone (often needed to obtain daily work), and some measure of food daily. This is unique in the world. An individual once told me (in a central American county), "America, if only I could choose, I would choose to be poor in America". We have exceptions, but even among the exceptions, you find some individuals who have made choices like prolific drug use, criminal activity, and serious mental health issues, that have compounded their circumstances. But the actual number of people dying daily from lack of food and no clothing to protect them from the elements is actually small compared to the rest of the earth ! Even one among us dying from hunger is tragic, but over all, most do not realize just what we have accomplished here. But for all the "evils" of capitalism, the Morris family included, we still have much to be thankful for in regards to death from starvation in our country. A personal decision to self ingest various drugs, kills far more Americans, but there again, do we trade the right to self determine, even destroy one's mind or body, for the "safety" of a government or others making the decisions for us. When the Villages gets too greedy, it's time to start looking around for a more comfortable place is the way I view it, and I HAVE taken stock of many of those same things. If Kroger is cheaper, and worth some of the other things NOT available where Kroger's exists ( and I know and LIKE Kroger's, shop there when visiting children and grand children), then it's time to move. When ANY developer begins, in the minds of the customers, to take "more than they are entitled to, it's not time to change the entire foundation of the country, it's time to find another location that offers more of what ever a person is seeking. THAT'S the wonderful part of being an American, we have no limitations and restrictions on where we can, and can not, live. We are only limited by what we can spend on shelter, and we have an unlimited selection of "costs of living" locations in this country. Trouble is usually, people want to live in one certain place, and THEN turn that into exactly what they want it to be. There's good and unacceptable everywhere, each has to weight it for themselves, but complaining about who makes what profit, well, it's a pretty useless waste of time as far as I view it. When I get fed up, and I decide Publix is expensive, I'll solve it, I'll move. Thankfully in my country I don't need permission of the government to do that. And I am, thankful !

[Pairadocs]

Thank you so much ! That’s exactly right it’s not the wages paid it’s the profits kept ! Almost every state has higher minimum wages and their prices are less. Look how expensive Public is ! Kroger’s would mop the floor here!

This is a unique environment also as all the local business pay much higher rent and royalties to the Morse family/ Villages. Some how they’ve managed to price gouge. As the place gets larger non of the operating costs go down in fact the amenity bill is now around 210-230 a month.

I don't know about Publix (which I think you meant ?) being more expensive, sure not to me, but we're all from various locations so I suppose that could be true for you. But your point about the Morris family, and free enterprise, and capitalism in general, it's an age old argument and many on here will defend socialism as the only way to go, while others will make valid arguments about how well capitalism has worked for us. While we certainly have our poor and homeless, just spending time a few months a year traveling the world will convince most just how well a democratic republic form of government with a capitalistic form of commerce, has served to us so well even many of our poorest citizens (again, not all) even have some type of vehicle, a TV that may not be the newest and best, a cell phone (often needed to obtain daily work), and some measure of food daily. This is unique in the world. An individual once told me (in a central American county), "America, if only I could choose, I would choose to be poor in America". We have exceptions, but even among the exceptions, you find some individuals who have made choices like prolific drug use, criminal activity, and serious mental health issues, that have compounded their circumstances. But the actual number of people dying daily from lack of food and no clothing to protect them from the elements is actually small compared to the rest of the earth ! Even one among us dying from hunger is tragic, but over all, most do not realize just what we have accomplished here. But for all the "evils" of capitalism, the Morris family included, we still have much to be thankful for in regards to death from starvation in our country. A personal decision to self ingest various drugs, kills far more Americans, but there again, do we trade the right to self determine, even destroy one's mind or body, for the "safety" of a government or others making the decisions for us. When the Villages gets too greedy, it's time to start looking around for a more comfortable place is the way I view it, and I HAVE taken stock of many of those same things. If Kroger is cheaper, and worth some of the other things NOT available where Kroger's exists ( and I know and LIKE Kroger's, shop there when visiting children and grand children), then it's time to move. When ANY developer begins, in the minds of the customers, to take "more than they are entitled to, it's not time to change the entire foundation of the country, it's time to find another location that offers more of what ever a person is seeking. THAT'S the wonderful part of being an American, we have no limitations and restrictions on where we can, and can not, live. We are only limited by what we can spend on shelter, and we have an unlimited selection of "costs of living" locations in this country. Trouble is usually, people want to live in one certain place, and THEN turn that into exactly what they want it to be. There's good and there is unacceptable everywhere, each has to weight it for themselves, but complaining about who makes what profit, well, it's a pretty useless waste of time as far as I view it. When I get fed up, and I decide Publix is expensive, the Morris family is greedy beyond what I personally consider acceptable, I'll solve it, and probably rather quickly, I'll move, it's not as complicated as it was with children, careers, etc. Why on earth anyone in retirement puts up with what they consider unacceptable greed, rules, restrictions, or other irritating forces and circumstances, is beyond my thought full analysis ! Perhaps, they are tied here because they have moved parents of advanced age into their homes here ? That would explain their circumstances, but I would guess for most, like myself, moving is much easier now than years ago. Thankfully in my country I don't need permission of the government to do that. And I am thankful, this is not a snide remark !

[mtdjed]

Raising the minimum wage is not the only cost. All jobs are comparative in some way. Some require more skill, some harder work, some more danger, some in higher cost of living areas. Raise the minimum and all else will raise. Think of what would happen in sports. Raise the wage for the lower skilled and the upper skilled will get more

That impact will spark creative ways to reduce costs. Automation, outsourcing. reduced benefits, elimination of jobs. What could we see? More automatic checkouts, more foreign accents on help lines, elimination of manned gatehouses, postal service every three days, less groomed areas in The Villages, No more flowers in rotaries. More ALDIs and less Deli and bakery personnel. Automated lawn mowing (My neighbor has auto lawn mower now)

[thomp679]

I am from Taxachusett. High school kids and unskilled labor is not worth $15 an hour.

Question: Were you worth what you were paid for your skill? I have seen many a white collar worker not worth the salary they were paid.

By the way, I have also seen a lot of hard workers that were high school kids and unskilled labor. In fact, I see a lot of these workers around The Villages. You try working in the heat of the Florida day for the wages they are paid. And stop looking down upon low wage workers.

[Pairadocs]

Not sure which location you go to, but had a Big Mac last week and sure wasn't $5 as you posted. I even had one just outside Disney and it was not that much, so I'd venture a guess that a person is paying pretty much the same percentage of the hour's wage as back then. I can remember making about $3.25 an hour, but seems like it took one whole hour's pay for a meal deal. But, not an important argument, it is what it is. People will forever believe that artificially raising wages will work to "fix" the problems, oh well. Perhaps we need to add to the materials in the economics section of our "library", give folks a chance to study a range of economic theories and make up their own minds which "work", that's the best way. But often the "arguments" on here seem to be primarily emotionally rooted, who knows ?

[Pairadocs]

Question: Were you worth what you were paid for your skill? I have seen many a white collar worker not worth the salary they were paid.

By the way, I have also seen a lot of hard workers that were high school kids and unskilled labor. In fact, I see a lot of these workers around The Villages. You try working in the heat of the Florida day for the wages they are paid. And stop looking down upon low wage workers.

"white collar, blue collar", the emotional foundation of some of the so called arguments made on here would be laughed out of a high school level logic class. First question that comes to mind, while we all have observed "white collar" workers not "worth" anything, are there also "blue collar" workers not "worth" anything. Are there any physicians not "worth" anything ? WHO decides "worth" ? And to suggest "why don't YOU try working in the Florida heat, yada yada yada". WHY would anyone who does not like that, or maybe can't, even want to work in the "Florida heat" ? On the other hand, one of our sons LOVES it, would not do anything else, especially if confined inside a building. Makes you wonder about people the way they "talk", configure their "arguments" with pure emotion, never bothering to support their point of view. Come to think of it, I HAVE seen a lot of old people, like myself and my neighbors, don't know if they are high school grads or not, but they ARE out in the HOT Florida sun, working on golf courses, at pools, even directing traffic for events. They seem to LOVE working out in the hot Florida sun, most for VERY LOW wages. People are about as happy as they decide to be. Money does not equal happiness, and now watch, people will start posting that you can't be happy when you don't make enough to even eat. It's a deep philosophical difference between those who would say, if you work a job and do not even make enough to have food, then you need to add another job. I did this in college, had one job serving coffee and doughnuts, another checking groceries, and still could not keep both food on the table AND pay the rent on a simple, roach infested apartment on the campus of a state university. SO, no alternative ! Had to add a third job, at the university library, touble was, ran out of hours in the day. Between classes, study, and required lab time, I was not able to even sleep for more than 3-4 hours. Most people probably don't even realize you can function with 4 hours of sleep.... LOL ! And those who think it is a human birth right to have food, shelter, and medical care, well, that is not always true. There is no definitive answer to this question; do we come into this world with the RIGHT to food, shelter, and medical care, or don't we ? Christians and other religions have debated this since the beginning of time.

[Lindsyburnsy]

But we should all give the top 1% a huge raise in the form of tax reduction. Unless you are a Jeff Bezos, that doesn't include you. These low paid employees still pay the same for food, clothing, gas and vehicles.

[Bay Kid]

I feel that when the govern gives all their workers a paid vacation day that the govern should reward all workers with a paid days wages. Why do the non-govern workers have to pay for the govern workers day off?

[Gulfcoast]

Both of my young adult college age children work in fast food right now part time. Neither one voted for the minimum wage increase and I hadn't even discussed that issue with them prior to them voting. Would they like to make more money? Sure, absolutely. But they also understood what nearly doubling the minimum wage within a span of 5 years will do to the economy in our state. That made me very proud.

[Joe V.]

But we should all give the top 1% a huge raise in the form of tax reduction. Unless you are a Jeff Bezos, that doesn't include you. These low paid employees still pay the same for food, clothing, gas and vehicles.

Work 2 jobs to make ends meet like tens of thousands of us had to do in the 70s.

[Stu from NYC]

I feel that when the govern gives all their workers a paid vacation day that the govern should reward all workers with a paid days wages. Why do the non-govern workers have to pay for the govern workers day off?

Because we are sheep and allow this to happen. Keep reelecting the same people who are owned by others do as they wish not what is good for their constituents.

[thomp679]

Work 2 jobs to make ends meet like tens of thousands of us had to do in the 70s.

Let's do our research before just blurting out non-sense. If one would factor in inflation to the minimum wage for a given year, the seventies were the best years for minimum wage making $1-$3 more an hour than todays rates. Many people do work two jobs by necessary.

US minimum wage by year (https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/business/us-minimum-wage-by-year/index.html)

[Dana1963]

Work 2 jobs to make ends meet like tens of thousands of us had to do in the 70s.
I never had to work 2 jobs in the 70’s. Received benefits, sick pay, paid vacations.
The Florida legislators will change this just like Ammendment 4 from 2018 popular vote

[Gulfcoast]

I never had to work 2 jobs in the 70’s. Received benefits, sick pay, paid vacations.
The Florida legislators will change this just like Ammendment 4 from 2018 popular vote

I hope that the legislators do change it. I know that I was sort of blindsided by this question when I went into to vote. I think there should be more informed discussion regarding the pros/cons of such a substantial wage increase before such a major change is made in an otherwise conservative state.