A "Voting Fraud" Thread

[jacksonbrown]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.

[Stu from NYC]

People should have to submit proof of identity in order to vote.

[DonH57]

I believe voter fraud pretty much will never be eradicated. Who controls the standard to ensure only one form is certified for use by every state across the board produced and distributed by only one federally approved contractor?

[graciegirl]

Is it o.k. to say I am frustrated and depressed? I am.

[dewilson58]

Is it o.k. to say I am frustrated and depressed? I am.
Laugh, don't cry.

[jacksonbrown]

Is it o.k. to say I am frustrated and depressed? I am.

GG, you just got me to laughing, and then I looked at your tag line -- well done!

[Two Bills]

On the scale needed to influence the outcome of an election, negligible.
It is a myth.
Where is the slightest evidence, apart from allegation?

[DeanFL]

.
.
...even tho I was a strong supporter of one candidate, I simply cannot believe that some states can inhibit independent Poll "Watchers" to monitor the vote counting. We all know that each state has its own laws re elections - many can easily be subject to "cheating and fraud". In this country, one would think/hope/believe that we would have an honest vote counting and reporting. Some evidence indicates this may not be the case, especially in some states. Certainly hope that all this can be worked out, even in courts if needed.

Hopefully this won't be a terribly extended final result resolution.

In the end my attitude is "It Is What It Is". Life is too short, and not worth it to harbor excessive hate or worry.

I plan to put out my American flag - either way. We must be strong.
.
.

[retiredguy123]

If you are a U.S. citizen, you should be required to prove it with a national ID card issued by the Federal Government. Without that, we will continue to have voter fraud and other fraud related to citizenship benefits.

[macawlaw]

If there were voter fraud, then I would expect the same party to prevail for the President, Senate, and House. Votes are still being counted as I type this, but the above does not appear to be the case.

Also, why is there only alleged fraud in the states with close races? I find this suspicious.

Finally, this issue appears to inspire an emotional response rather than a reasoned one. I have read many passionate accusations, but none of those have provided proof for the accusation.

[billethkid]

Where it can it will.
Whether it makes a difference or not we will never know.

Like speeding it is not right.....doesn't stop the speeders....and since it does not affect most of us.....does not make it OK.

[manaboutown]

Anyone else remember Landslide Lyndon? How "Landslide Lyndon" stole Senate race in 1948? - And U.S. entered Vietnam War. (https://myemail.constantcontact.com/How--Landslide-Lyndon--stole-Senate-race-in-1948----And-U-S--entered-Vietnam-War-.html?soid=1108762609255&aid=4rzoetBtjhQ)

[tvbound]

There is a huge difference between significant voter fraud (which has never been found, anywhere or anytime) and it just taking so long to count the unprecedented number of mailed-in ballots, due to the fear of catching Covid standing in a massive line. Every ballot cast in accordance with the appropriate state law(s) should be counted, regardless of how long it takes. That is the very foundation of a Constitutional Federal Republic. A lot of people also forget, that election laws are a state right and they vary from state to state. Here's a good link that shows those different laws.

VOPP: Table 11: Receipt and Postmark Deadlines for Absentee Ballots (https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-table-11-receipt-and-postmark-deadlines-for-absentee-ballots.aspx?fbclid=IwAR0LqemA8S_JO-AJ5XKF8aQqgYBJSPUTsFGiAwNQnSgUeXyLQVJe2iOHxbU)

[Stu from NYC]

People in Chicago are known to have voted for many years after they died, some of them even switched parties

[Going My Way]

People should have to submit proof of identity in order to vote.

On 11/3/2020 I went to Paradise Rec Center in order to cast my vote, the lady did ask for my Driver’s License before I was able to get my voting sheets... :confused:

[Topspinmo]

Actually I have less faith in federal government as years go by, corruption, career politicians, and billionaires interest to sway government. Hopefully I will be dead before it turns into just another 3rd world country.

[Going My Way]

No Voter ID could result in:
Send "Early Ballot" in the mail; then on election day vote again in person if no ID is required....

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

On 11/3/2020 I went to Paradise Rec Center in order to cast my vote, the lady did ask for my Driver’s License before I was able to get my voting sheets... :confused:

He's talking about mail-in voting, which requires you to not even be physically capable of presenting your ID to anyone. But it does require that your signature be on file (usually via your Florida drivers' license, which is now also a valid Federal ID, or in person registration to vote), so that the signatures can be matched when you sign the back of the envelope before mailing it in.

Considering that mail-in voting, *regardless of the reason for the mail-in, whether absentee or not* has existed since the Civil War, and considering that mail fraud has been negligible since, and considering that even when it IS discovered, it invalidates the fraudulent votes - thus making the actual votes valid and countable..

considering all that, mail-in ballots is not, nor has it ever been, a concern in this country.

In person voting HAS been a problem, particularly in Georgia and Florida, when a certain party did some certain things creating certain problems, and the subsequent attempts at covering it up were exposed.

So if it were me, I'd be more concerned about a certain party's attempts to subvert and corrupt the voting process at the polling places, and less concerned about mail-in voting.

I'm not all that concerned about either. The person I didn't want, took the Florida election fair and square. I don't like it, but I accept it. Hopefully, the people on that side will have the same attitude if their person doesn't win the final national result. Somehow though, considering THEIR history - I don't have much faith in that.

[Arctic Fox]

why is there only alleged fraud in the states with close races? I find this suspicious.

Voter fraud can only make the smallest of differences, so it has to be a close race to make it worth investigating.

[retiredguy123]

On 11/3/2020 I went to Paradise Rec Center in order to cast my vote, the lady did ask for my Driver’s License before I was able to get my voting sheets... :confused:
Asking and requiring are two different things. Florida law does not require a driver's license or other ID to vote.

[billethkid]

Asking and requiring are two different things. Florida law does not require a driver's license or other ID to vote.

Then why do they ask to see your drivers license when entering the voting establishment and verify the address?

[jnafix]

People should have to submit proof of identity in order to vote.
And all Americans citizens do... When have YOU or anyone that YOU know have ever voted without proper ID ? :ohdear:

[retiredguy123]

Then why do they ask to see your drivers license when entering the voting establishment and verify the address?
If you don't have an ID, they can require you to vote with a provisional ballot. Then, they are supposed to verify your signature later and accept your vote. But, they cannot require you to present an ID to vote.

[jnafix]

Asking and requiring are two different things. Florida law does not require a driver's license or other ID to vote.

No, you are wrong. So you think that in the USA you can just walk into a polling station and give them some random name and then you can vote for the Prez of the USA. :ohdear:

[jnafix]

People in Chicago are known to have voted for many years after they died, some of them even switched parties
Ya, I also overheard that from a guy talk'n to some other guy at the end of the bar. I think they were from NYC.

[Byte1]

For those demanding PROOF of voter fraud, I find it interesting that they are the same ones that do not need "proof" of foreign influence. They just take it as fact. The point is that you can't detect voter fraud without an investigation. Many states will not allow investigators inside to investigate voter fraud.
The absolute FACT is that the Constitution stipulates, mandates that ONLY American citizens may vote in national elections, period. Are we supposed to take the honor system and consider that everyone is telling the truth and do not have to prove identity? Do not have to prove citizenship? If one does not have proof of their identity then they are too stupid to vote. In one state North of us, does not even require anything more than a verbal statement of name and address. They do not even require a piece of paper as proof of residence, just your verbal statement.
If you do not believe that proof should be required, then I am sure you are upset at having to provide proof to purchase alcohol, airline tickets, prescription drugs, cash a check, and even use your credit card if you do not sign the back.
The idea that some minorities would be disenfranchised if proof is required is a slur on minorities.

[retiredguy123]

No, you are wrong. So you think that in the USA you can just walk into a polling station and give them some random name and then you can vote for the Prez of the USA. :ohdear:
I am not wrong. Florida law does not require an ID to vote for president. If you show up with no ID, they can require you to use a provisional ballot to vote. Then, they are supposed to verify your signature with the voter registration signature on file. But, if they refuse to let you vote, they are violating Florida law.

[swooner]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.
Someday we will be smart enough to get rid of the Electoral College. After doing so, voter fraud, if there is any would not be an issue when one candidate registers 4,000,000 votes more than the other. Electoral College does not reflect the will of the people.

[jnafix]

I am not wrong. Florida law does not require an ID to vote for president. If you show up with no ID, they can require you to use a provisional ballot to vote. Then, they are supposed to verify your signature with the voter registration signature on file. But, if they refuse to let you vote, they are violating Florida law.
And there you have it (verify your signature with the voter registration signature on file). :clap2:

[Byte1]

Someday we will be smart enough to get rid of the Electoral College. After doing so, voter fraud, if there is any would not be an issue when one candidate registers 4,000,000 votes more than the other. Electoral College does not reflect the will of the people.

So, you believe that one or two CITIES in America should be able to decide the fate of ALL the rest of your fellow Americans? How quaint. Some folks are much smarter than the founding fathers, right? I guess the rest of us won't even need to vote or actually even have a say in how the country is run, if we do away with the EC votes. Hey, we won't even need congress anymore either, since the rest of the country won't matter.

Some folks need to take a refresher CIVICS course. WE live in a Republic, a Constitutional Republic, NOT a Democracy. America is not yet a Socialist country.

[Byte1]

And there you have it (verify your signature with the voter registration signature on file). :clap2:

Signatures do not cut it. Just look at your signature on those digital pads when you purchase by credit card. All persons should have to provide proof of citizenship when registering to vote, and then proof of ID (picture form of ID) when you actually vote. The military living overseas fills out an absentee ballot and it has to be certified with witness signature before it is mailed. No one should have mail in voting unless they are not able to vote in their resident state. The honor system does not cut it.

[jnafix]

Signatures do not cut it. Just look at your signature on those digital pads when you purchase by credit card. All persons should have to provide proof of citizenship when registering to vote, and then proof of ID (picture form of ID) when you actually vote. The military living overseas fills out an absentee ballot and it has to be certified with witness signature before it is mailed. No one should have mail in voting unless they are not able to vote in their resident state. The honor system does not cut it.
Yes Yes Yes - Now I believe you. There was wide spread voter fraud in the state of Florida because no one needed proof of citizenship or proof of residency. Lots of people even voted twice (because they were told to by potus). I'm with you brother. So you are saying that it's very possible that those electoral collage votes might have been meant go to the other guy. :pray:

[Kilmacowen]

No Voter ID could result in:
Send "Early Ballot" in the mail; then on election day vote again in person if no ID is required....

Won't happen. There is a Barcode on every ballot that is scanned just like getting on a plane. You also could be charged with voter fraud, getting prison time.

[Number 10 GI]

You have to show a picture ID to fly on an airplane, to cash a check, to purchase booze and cigarettes, to open a bank account, to receive certain medications, to get a loan, to purchase a firearm, and a number of other things so what is the problem with showing one to vote?

[retiredguy123]

You have to show a picture ID to fly on an airplane, to cash a check, to purchase booze and cigarettes, to open a bank account, to receive certain medications, to get a loan, to purchase a firearm, and a number of other things so what is the problem with showing one to vote?
The problem is in the title of the thread. If you have to present a photo ID to vote, then it would make it more difficult for those who want to make a fraudulent vote.

[Going My Way]

Someday we will be smart enough to get rid of the Electoral College. After doing so, voter fraud, if there is any would not be an issue when one candidate registers 4,000,000 votes more than the other. Electoral College does not reflect the will of the people.

Or how about one candidate wins 90% of the counties in a State but still lose the State... :popcorn:

[New Englander]

People in Chicago are known to have voted for many years after they died, some of them even switched parties

Somehow, I'm not at all surprised.

[Kerry Azz]

We are all frustrated, not depressed though. Don’t worry it’ll be over soon.

[New Englander]

I believe there is both voting fraud and vote counting fraud.

[Gulfcoast]

I think that there have been some sketchy things going on with the vote count in other states. I am proud of the way Florida handled the entire election process. If Florida can get an election night result, so should the other states.

[Nucky]

I saw a joke on Facebook today that said something to the effect of we should have hired the staff from Chick-fil-A, the counting would have been done two days ago. :1rotfl::1rotfl: They are so efficient!

Could this have gone any other way? A mess till the end! :ohdear:

[Kilmacowen]

You have to show a picture ID to fly on an airplane, to cash a check, to purchase booze and cigarettes, to open a bank account, to receive certain medications, to get a loan, to purchase a firearm, and a number of other things so what is the problem with showing one to vote?

You can't vote twice on the same bar code. Also when you register they do not use a digital signature.

[retiredguy123]

You can't vote twice on the same bar code. Also when you register they do not use a digital signature.
What about when you show up without an ID and you use a provisional ballot? How can they create a specialized bar code for provisional ballots? Also, validating a ballot by comparing two signatures seems to me to be a very subjective and inaccurate method.

[jmcote]

I believe voter fraud pretty much will never be eradicated. Who controls the standard to ensure only one form is certified for use by every state across the board produced and distributed by only one federally approved contractor?

I think there has many more instances of voter suppression. Much more damaging as well.

[jacksonbrown]

I think there has many more instances of voter suppression.

Voter suppression and racist. The two most overused words from mainstream media.

With all those ivy league talking heads espousing their opinions, could not they think of something any more original?

Guess not.

[tophcfa]

My question is this, why is it that when all the early votes were in, one party was way ahead, then when people actually went to physically vote, the other side surged ahead, but then when the straggling mail in ballots got counted, the original party again surged back in front. Why does one party get it's advantage from early and mail in voting, while the other benefits from people actually physically showing up with a valid ID to vote? The whole thing seems kind of fishy to me? But then again, what do I know?

[jmcote]

Voter suppression and racist. The two most overused words from mainstream media.

With all those ivy league talking heads espousing their opinions, could not they think of something any more original?

Guess not.

If quacks like a duck ...

[manaboutown]

An unfortunately large amount of voter fraud of various types was committed by the usual suspects. Hopefully the courts will be able to correct some of it although likely much of it will get by. What a sad situation.

[44Apple]

Funny how this was not mentioned as a problem in 2016, wonder what changed?

[Northwoods]

I saw a joke on Facebook today that said something to the effect of we should have hired the staff from Chick-fil-A, the counting would have been done two days ago. :1rotfl::1rotfl: They are so efficient!

Could this have gone any other way? A mess till the end! :ohdear:

Love it!!!

My question is... why is it certain large urban cities that seem to take so long to count votes? Other large cities seem to be able to get it done.
I guess they need to see how many additional mail-in ballots they need to swing the election to a certain candidate.

[Bill14564]

My question is this, why is it that when all the early votes were in, one party was way ahead, then when people actually went to physically vote, the other side surged ahead, but then when the straggling mail in ballots got counted, the original party again surged back in front. Why does one party get it's advantage from early and mail in voting, while the other benefits from people actually physically showing up with a valid ID to vote? The whole thing seems kind of fishy to me? But then again, what do I know?

Just a guess, but one party spent its time pointing to fraud in the mail-in voting and disputing the effectiveness of masks and social distancing. The other party made a point of wearing masks, practicing distancing, and encouraging mail-in voting. I haven't looked at the statistics you refer to but I wonder if those differences in the parties match the results that you saw.

[Buckeyephan]

The sad truth is that once again, half of the country will be angry that their candidate lost. If we can create anything good from this mess, I hope states will take a long, hard look at the way they conduct voting and counting ballots before the 2022 midterm election. It should be apparent that things need to be improved. I hope this will be a wake-up call that Americans deserve that. Right now, I feel like I live in a third-world country with boarded up stores, riots in the streets and questionable vote counting. Thank you 2020 for another punch in the face.

[Tennisnut]

A voter fraud commission headed by Kris Kobach was disbanded in 2018 due to a lack of findings.

[Coal Miner]

Our great nations system of Democracy is filled with checks that make voter fraud almost impossible. Allegations of voter fraud usually comes from poor losers. Dont believe otherwise.

[Worldseries27]

someday we will be smart enough to get rid of the electoral college. After doing so, voter fraud, if there is any would not be an issue when one candidate registers 4,000,000 votes more than the other. Electoral college does not reflect the will of the people.
that solves nothing. If voter fraud is being perpetrated then your example of 4 million is suspect also.
The problem is to eliminate the ability to cheat.
I expect we will all get an education in this as the sc either accepts or dismisses the results as invalid.
The sc can broker an agreement or rule on the matter on it's merits.
What im hoping for is justice. Without any hearings these 9 judges know the score about what really happened on election day. Basically the perpetrators have committed their crimes on a vast and coordinated effort and have challenged the supreme court, the last line of defense to stop them.
The insult has been delivered. The gauntlet has been thrown. What sayeth thee oh guardians of justice ?

[Scott O]

Our great nations system of Democracy is filled with checks that make voter fraud almost impossible. Allegations of voter fraud usually comes from poor losers. Dont believe otherwise.
And I do agree on one point, OUR GREAT NATION! That’s right, that’s on its way to being destroyed...

[Hiltongrizz11]

Who says that there is no evidence? Open your world....it's there.

Science doesn't explain everything.
And people who say "there's no evidence to support ...." are ignorant.

A hundred years ago "there was no evidence" at crime scenes. We didn't know about DNA, fingerprints, and more. The "evidence" WAS THERE. We were just too uneducated to know.

So today when you hear or read "there is no evidence" to support .....just think of the arrogance and ignorance of that statement

[Scott O]

that solves nothing. If voter fraud is being perpetrated then your example of 4 million is suspect also.
The problem is to eliminate the ability to cheat.
I expect we will all get an education in this as the sc either accepts or dismisses the results as invalid.
The sc can broker an agreement or rule on the matter on it's merits.
What im hoping for is justice. Without any hearings these 9 judges know the score about what really happened on election day. Basically the perpetrators have committed their crimes on a vast and coordinated effort and have challenged the supreme court, the last line of defense to stop them.
The insult has been delivered. The gauntlet has been thrown. What sayeth thee oh guardians of justice ?
We all know where the poster original comments stem from, their lack of faith in our Constitution...that right there says it all.....

[Scott O]

Just a guess, but one party spent its time pointing to fraud in the mail-in voting and disputing the effectiveness of masks and social distancing. The other party made a point of wearing masks, practicing distancing, and encouraging mail-in voting. I haven't looked at the statistics you refer to but I wonder if those differences in the parties match the results that you saw.
The party who claim they couldn’t go in person to vote? Then on Election Day, the CDC comes up with “even if you have Covid you can go vote” so explain to me? 1/2 of us understand the cathartic corruption that keeps moving along and continues to be accepted. We are not accepting it any longer....

[ficoguy]

How about 70000 mailed in ballots show up and every single one is for D. Statistically impossible.

[Lindsyburnsy]

I'm old enough to remember that an Election Fraud taskforce was formed by the current administration and nothing could be found and the taskforce was dismantled. There will always be a few votes here or there, but not massive amounts to make a difference. However, voter suppression is real and every tactic was used, including removing drop boxes, taking sorting machines out of the USPS, limiting voter polling stations, online propaganda. Even with all that, people turned out in droves to make their voices heard. Good for America!

If you are a U.S. citizen, you should be required to prove it with a national ID card issued by the Federal Government. Without that, we will continue to have voter fraud and other fraud related to citizenship benefits.

[ficoguy]

But then no one ever bothers to check the provisional to see if there was a previously mailed in ballot.

[Daleholbrook]

But the media is controlling the message so we the people aren’t getting all the info to make a decision

[Meboko]

On 11/3/2020 I went to Paradise Rec Center in order to cast my vote, the lady did ask for my Driver’s License before I was able to get my voting sheets... :confused:

Same here. When we went to vote at Mulberry Rec Center my husband and I were both asked for our driver licenses. Never voted without being asked here in Florida or New Jersey where I did not have to show my driver license.

[banjobob]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.
The only true way to run elections is in person voting only either at poling places or as the military organized votes by region and only with photo ID. Chicago Philadelphia and others are famous for political corruption. Absentee voting only in limited numbers.

[Bucco]

Just just an interesting note.....

As POTUS himself pointed out, the GOP had much success in other areas.

If you look at most states "in play" and check the "down ticket" you find that the "fraud" alleged seems not to have been widespread meaning the folks on the ballot not running for POTUS from the GOP did pretty well.

[Eg_cruz]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.
If anyone question fraud I ask them answer a simple question CO is 100% mail in and drop off.....zero votes in person. If they can count their ballots on Nov 3rd. Why are the battleground state stuck....why are ballots just popping up everywhere? CA, TX, FL, NY the highest populated states can count in one day in fact CA ...CALL IT WITHIN ONE HOUR. I don’t care what side you are on if you can see the fraud then you are be willfully blind

[Eg_cruz]

And all Americans citizens do... When have YOU or anyone that YOU know have ever voted without proper ID ? :ohdear:
Mail in ballots......hello

[DecaturFargo]

Let's not. There is no voter fraud.

[richs631]

If anyone can give me just one good reason why you don’t have to show ID in most states to vote I will keep my mouth shut!

[Bucco]

If anyone question fraud I ask them answer a simple question CO is 100% mail in and drop off.....zero votes in person. If they can count their ballots on Nov 3rd. Why are the battleground state stuck....why are ballots just popping up everywhere? CA, TX, FL, NY the highest populated states can count in one day in fact CA ...CALL IT WITHIN ONE HOUR. I don’t care what side you are on if you can see the fraud then you are be willfully blind

In reality, the states that are slow in reporting are GOP controlled legislatures that insisted on tough regulations relative to counting votes, ie. Pennsylvania Republican legislature insisted that no mail in votes be touched until all votes cast on Election Day be counted. Same thing in Michigan and a few others, all controlled by GOP legislatures.

[rustyp]

306/232

- how ironic
- one would have to find mega fraud to overcome a landslide of that proportion

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.

One thing that I understand and a lot of people get wrong is that the words "common defense" and "general welfare" refer to the common defense and general welfare of the states, not individuals.

People forget or don't want to believe that the original concept of this country was a loose union of several somewhat independent states similar to the European Union. With a few exceptions, the word state refers to a country, such as the State of Israel. The job of our state department is to deal with foreign countries (states).

The founders disagreed on how much power the federal government should have. It was a very innovative idea for a country and finding a balance has never been easy.

In my opinion, even the founders that were in favor of a stronger central government would be shocked to see what we have today.

I know that this may not be relative to the actual subject of the OP, but I fell that it is necessary to point this out as the poster decided to place parenthesis around certain phrases that he felt are important.

[DecaturFargo]

18 years as an election official in Virginia. DL is only one gorm of ID. There are many others, but you have yo have an acceptable picture ID.

[Bay Kid]

We have known for 4 years that this election is on Nov. 3rd. Why should anything be allowed to be found/counted after Nov. 3rd? Why would you wait to election day to mail in a ballot? We should be done with this.

Just logic, if we still use common logic this in our country..

[soniak4@gmail.com]

There was a study and they found that it is true, there is voter fraud committed in the US. In April 2020, a 20-year voter fraud study by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found the level of fraud "exceedingly rare" since it occurs only in "0.00006 percent" of instances nationally, and, in one state, "0.000004 percent — about five times less likely than getting hit by lightning in the United States."

0.00006% is NOTHING, make no impact one way or another. Now, let’s move on. Enjoy the rest of your day.

[jbrown132]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.
Regardless of who wins the only looser the other night were the American people.

[44Apple]

Love it!!!

My question is... why is it certain large urban cities that seem to take so long to count votes? Other large cities seem to be able to get it done.
I guess they need to see how many additional mail-in ballots they need to swing the election to a certain candidate.

Because some state GOP legislatures decided that counting would not start until Election Day, and not before.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Why couldn't the mail in and early ballots be counted as they are received and the results kept under wraps until the results are known?

Why are they being received first and counted last?

IMHO, in this age of technology, this whole process is an embarrassment to our country.

First of all, why do we need early voting and mail in voting? For centuries people have gone the polls on election day ad voted. That seems to have worked pretty well for over 200 years.

Secondly, why do we need mail in ballots. I realize that we've always had them, but in the past they were very limited.

My suggestions. Since some people have claimed that they can't get to the pools on election day because they work, hold the election on a weekend. Since the polls may be crowded and people have to wait in line, do it over two or three days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Mandate that employers give employees and extra hour break on election days.

Secondly allow mail in ballots only for people who can demonstrate a legitimate need. Those in the military or who otherwise will be out of the country or people who are confined at home or in a hospital should be the only ones that are allowed to vote by mail. There might be other conditions, and those would have to be defined to see who qualifies. But sending out hundreds of millions of ballots and expecting them all to be returned on time and properly filled out is unrealistic. I voted in person and received instructions on what to do if I made a mistake. How does that work with a mail in ballot?

The third thing would be to end all of this counting by hand. When I taught at a college, we had the answer sheets where the students would fill in the oval. I would insert the completed answer sheets into a machine and I would get printout of the grades of a class of thirty within minutes. When I voted, I filled out the ovals and inserted my ballot into a machine. I assume that that machine read the ballot and kept a tally of the results. I realize that every state has the freedom to decide how people will vote, but there must be a way to get this done so that all states are using the same system and don't have volunteers sitting at tables manually counting votes.

Just my ideas. They will never be adopted. I probably just had to vent after watching this absurd system every four years.

[coconutmama]

Our great nations system of Democracy is filled with checks that make voter fraud almost impossible. Allegations of voter fraud usually comes from poor losers. Dont believe otherwise.

Amen.

Additionally I often wonder where does free speech end and slander take it’s place?

[Larchap49]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.

I think it is past time for the end of the paper ballot. Paper ballots being controlled by a bunch of untrained volunteers who many times probably have an agenda is a recipe for fraud and corruption. I also feel that a Presidential election should be separate from all other state or local issues. The rules for voting should be standardized accross the country and voting should be by electronic methods that limit the chance of fraud to a minimum. Until that happens I and many others will not have any faith in the process.

[FromNY]

.
.
...even tho I was a strong supporter of one candidate, I simply cannot believe that some states can inhibit independent Poll "Watchers" to monitor the vote counting. We all know that each state has its own laws re elections - many can easily be subject to "cheating and fraud". In this country, one would think/hope/believe that we would have an honest vote counting and reporting. Some evidence indicates this may not be the case, especially in some states. Certainly hope that all this can be worked out, even in courts if needed.

Hopefully this won't be a terribly extended final result resolution.

In the end my attitude is "It Is What It Is". Life is too short, and not worth it to harbor excessive hate or worry.

I plan to put out my American flag - either way. We must be strong.
.
.
Here lies the problem:
EACH state has their own laws for voting! If we are UNITED States laws should be the same at least for National Elections. We are in a modern age why not transcend to digital voting centers . 14 days of voting. One day of catch up known as election day. All votes in and counted before that day? Mail in drop off still can happen but with an enhanced service of time management. Time to push for change. 4 years is not that far away. Blessings for America!

[merrymini]

All people should have id.
Election day is not a secret, no votes should count if not received by election day.
The electoral college protects states with low populations.I do not want CA and NY to rule the rest of the country.
We survived McCarthy so we will prevail against socialism too.
Somebody should get jobs for those rich white kids setting fires so they know what “work” really means.
We may be looking at the decline of our power if the young people of this country believe communism is good.

[Taltarzac725]

Here lies the problem:
EACH state has their own laws for voting! If we are UNITED States laws should be the same at least for National Elections. We are in a modern age why not transcend to digital voting centers . 14 days of voting. One day of catch up known as election day. All votes in and counted before that day? Mail in drop off still can happen but with an enhanced service of time management. Time to push for change. 4 years is not that far away. Blessings for America!

Probably because digital can be hacked by cyber criminals. Old school with many checks-and-balances is much better.

[ts12755]

20 years from now middle class will be gone. God will be removed from America. We don't have to worry about it, we'll be dead. Our children and grandchildren will not get to live the life we did.

[Taltarzac725]

20 years from now middle class will be gone. God will be removed from America. We don't have to worry about it, we'll be dead. Our children and grandchildren will not get to live the life we did.

God is very much alive in the US and will stay that way. It is though worship by many different cultures with different views of God. The problem always comes up when some one with a lot of power starts dictating their view of God on others. A Henry VIII for instance who wants to get out of his passionless marriage to a Catholic.

[jjp2532]

And all Americans citizens do... When have YOU or anyone that YOU know have ever voted without proper ID ? :ohdear:

Live in IL, never have I been required to show ID to vote on any level.

[Mohawksin]

People should have to submit proof of identity in order to vote.

ID and Mark on their hand which wears off the day after the election.

[Steve32162]

[QUOTE=jacksonbrown;1856554]Hey you'll.../QUOTE]

you'll = you will
y'all = you all

https://d32rzbb554tqz0.cloudfront.net/forums/images/smilies/clap2.gif

[gail swanson]

Great attitude🤗

[bilcon]

No mail in ballots unless you can prove you are incapacitated. Vote in person except for absentee ballots for those serving in Armed Forces. All ballots must be in and counted by Election Day. No exceptions. Just my thoughts. There was definitely room for fraud in this election.

[Taltarzac725]

Live in IL, never have I been required to show ID to vote on any level.

I have had to show ID always in NV, MN, CA and FL elections.

[Ken Lee]

So what you are saying is let's talk about our political process without being political? Good luck with that...

[jbrown132]

There is a huge difference between significant voter fraud (which has never been found, anywhere or anytime) and it just taking so long to count the unprecedented number of mailed-in ballots, due to the fear of catching Covid standing in a massive line. Every ballot cast in accordance with the appropriate state law(s) should be counted, regardless of how long it takes. That is the very foundation of a Constitutional Federal Republic. A lot of people also forget, that election laws are a state right and they vary from state to state. Here's a good link that shows those different laws.

VOPP: Table 11: Receipt and Postmark Deadlines for Absentee Ballots (https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-table-11-receipt-and-postmark-deadlines-for-absentee-ballots.aspx?fbclid=IwAR0LqemA8S_JO-AJ5XKF8aQqgYBJSPUTsFGiAwNQnSgUeXyLQVJe2iOHxbU)
I think you meant every legal ballot. There is a bid difference

[cheweycat]

Similar to wearing a facemask to protect others from the virus.

[bilcon]

So much for not bringing in you usual liberal point of view

[rmd2]

What about when you show up without an ID and you use a provisional ballot? How can they create a specialized bar code for provisional ballots? Also, validating a ballot by comparing two signatures seems to me to be a very subjective and inaccurate method.

Yes, worse than hanging chads.

[Bonnevie]

I believe there is both voting fraud and vote counting fraud.

vote counting fraud? there are both parties on hand to observe. there are cameras everywhere!

[jbrown132]

He's talking about mail-in voting, which requires you to not even be physically capable of presenting your ID to anyone. But it does require that your signature be on file (usually via your Florida drivers' license, which is now also a valid Federal ID, or in person registration to vote), so that the signatures can be matched when you sign the back of the envelope before mailing it in.

Considering that mail-in voting, *regardless of the reason for the mail-in, whether absentee or not* has existed since the Civil War, and considering that mail fraud has been negligible since, and considering that even when it IS discovered, it invalidates the fraudulent votes - thus making the actual votes valid and countable..

considering all that, mail-in ballots is not, nor has it ever been, a concern in this country.

In person voting HAS been a problem, particularly in Georgia and Florida, when a certain party did some certain things creating certain problems, and the subsequent attempts at covering it up were exposed.

So if it were me, I'd be more concerned about a certain party's attempts to subvert and corrupt the voting process at the polling places, and less concerned about mail-in voting.

I'm not all that concerned about either. The person I didn't want, took the Florida election fair and square. I don't like it, but I accept it. Hopefully, the people on that side will have the same attitude if their person doesn't win the final national result. Somehow though, considering THEIR history - I don't have much faith in that.
There is a big difference between mail in ballots and absentee ballots. To get absentee ballot you have to request it. One obtained you fill it out and mail it back. The case this year was that millions of ballots were just mailed out with no request. I legally vote in FL but I received a mail ballot from my old home state of MA where I still own a piece of property. So in effect I could have voted twice. I’ll bet there were millions of other similar cases. Absentee ballots are fine but the wholesale mailing of ballots is just wrong.

[Bill1701]

I doubt there is widespread fraud, but given the close races in some states it wouldn't take much to change the winner. We don't have a national election in this country. We have 51 different elections, all run by different rules and regulations.

[joedi]

If you are a U.S. citizen, you should be required to prove it with a national ID card issued by the Federal Government. Without that, we will continue to have voter fraud and other fraud related to citizenship benefits.

Wrong!:

[Johnsocat]

And all Americans citizens do... When have YOU or anyone that YOU know have ever voted without proper ID ? :ohdear:

My daughter voted in person in Virginia
She was not asked for ID.

[Bonnevie]

In April 2020, a 20-year voter fraud study by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found the level of fraud "exceedingly rare" since it occurs only in "0.00006 percent" of instances nationally, and, in one state, "0.000004 percent — about five times less likely than getting hit by lightning in the United States."

[skip0358]

If i have a bill that's due on a certain date and I miss the due date I pay a fine. Voting should be the same way period. Not in before Election day it's not counted that's your fine. ID should be required and if someone voted in one state a second vote should be rejected by the system. Dead people shouldn"t vote. Lastly how could the speaker say a week ago regardless of the outcome so & so will be sworn in in January!

[Marine1974]

Remember the fake dossier presented to a FISA court judge
to spy on a candidate in the last
election by a dirty FBI paid for by a certain political party . I believe a certain political party would stop
at nothing to win an election . Now is the time to audit votes , recount votes and get to the bottom of election fraud for all Americans . This is not Venezuela.
Make the folks that perpetuated a crime as an example with heavy
prison sentences and fines as an example. It’s important , Americans need to know if a crime was committed or not . We need to rid our government of corruption.

[Topspinmo]

If anyone question fraud I ask them answer a simple question CO is 100% mail in and drop off.....zero votes in person. If they can count their ballots on Nov 3rd. Why are the battleground state stuck....why are ballots just popping up everywhere? CA, TX, FL, NY the highest populated states can count in one day in fact CA ...CALL IT WITHIN ONE HOUR. I don’t care what side you are on if you can see the fraud then you are be willfully blind


Was easy in California, Washington, and Oregon. Republican is as rare as ivory billed woodpecker.

[Topspinmo]

vote counting fraud? there are both parties on hand to observe. there are cameras everywhere!

Wrong some state allows no observers

[maggie1]

There is a huge difference between significant voter fraud (which has never been found, anywhere or anytime) and it just taking so long to count the unprecedented number of mailed-in ballots, due to the fear of catching Covid standing in a massive line. Every ballot cast in accordance with the appropriate state law(s) should be counted, regardless of how long it takes. That is the very foundation of a Constitutional Federal Republic. A lot of people also forget, that election laws are a state right and they vary from state to state. Here's a good link that shows those different laws.

VOPP: Table 11: Receipt and Postmark Deadlines for Absentee Ballots (https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-table-11-receipt-and-postmark-deadlines-for-absentee-ballots.aspx?fbclid=IwAR0LqemA8S_JO-AJ5XKF8aQqgYBJSPUTsFGiAwNQnSgUeXyLQVJe2iOHxbU)

IMHO, all elections should follow one specific set of rules. With PA allowing ballots to be counted three days after being received, as long as the postmark is dated the day of the election, makes it easier for the losing party to claim voter fraud. This is a federal election, and should folllow one format throughout the US. If PA allows three days after the election, then all states should allow it. We just can't go on with 52 states making up their own rules as to where, when, and how to cast ones vote.

[Bill14564]

And all Americans citizens do... When have YOU or anyone that YOU know have ever voted without proper ID ? :ohdear:

I'll add Maryland to the list. Except for certain rare cases you aren't asked for any form of ID when you vote.

[rmd2]

vote counting fraud? there are both parties on hand to observe. there are cameras everywhere!

No both parties were NOT allowed to observe. At many of the vote counting facilities the other party was not allowed to come into the room to observe. At some they were not even allowed to come into the building! Some covered up the windows so others were not allowed to observe what was going on. To "observe" you need to be right there to actually see the votes counted and tabulated.
The decision to allow late mail-in votes as long as they were postmarked by Nov 3rd was another fraud. ANYONE with a postage machine can put any date they want on the mail. A party could have 100,000 fraud votes ready to go for any swing state and dump them late as needed and this happened.
Look on U-Tube and see the real time voting graph where one party was ahead in Wisconsin and then at 3 am a very unusual straight up line on the graph put the other party ahead.

[rmd2]

Was easy in California, Washington, and Oregon. Republican is as rare as ivory billed woodpecker.

California had 1/3 of the total vote Republicans this year.

[bilcon]

I just spoke to my daughter on LI, NY. She was never asked for any ID when she voted. They asked her the first 3 letters of her last name and they said her first name and repeated her address. All she had to say is yes. The couple in front of her were told they had already voted, which was not true and were refused. They were told they had to go to the county voting office. Someone voted using their names. My granddaughter was still on the voter rolls in NY even though she is registered and voted in Florida. People still believe there was no fraud. HUMMM!

[rustyp]

No both parties were NOT allowed to observe. At many of the vote counting facilities the other party was not allowed to come into the room to observe. At some they were not even allowed to come into the building! Some covered up the windows so others were not allowed to observe what was going on. To "observe" you need to be right there to actually see the votes counted and tabulated.
The decision to allow late mail-in votes as long as they were postmarked by Nov 3rd was another fraud. ANYONE with a postage machine can put any date they want on the mail. A party could have 100,000 fraud votes ready to go for any swing state and dump them late as needed and this happened.
Look on U-Tube and see the real time voting graph where one party was ahead in Wisconsin and then at 3 am a very unusual straight up line on the graph put the other party ahead.

How did they determine which party counted the votes ?

[maggie1]

Voter suppression and racist. The two most overused words from mainstream media.

With all those ivy league talking heads espousing their opinions, could not they think of something any more original?

Guess not.

So, what would you call it if not voter suppression and/or racism? The Post Master General is replaced by a billionaire that had no experience in postal operations, and the first thing he does is eliminate great number of sorting machines. Do you think that slows the process? How about a number of states limiting the number of drop off boxes? You think that might be akin to voter suppression? I know that I'd find it too inconvenient if I had to drive eight to gen miles in my county to drop off my vote at the only drop box in the county. This is especially problematic in the poorer sections of the community, where many people must rely on public transportation to get around.

[Going My Way]

Someday we will be smart enough to get rid of the Electoral College. After doing so, voter fraud, if there is any would not be an issue when one candidate registers 4,000,000 votes more than the other. Electoral College does not reflect the will of the people.
Or how about a candidate that wins 90% of the counties in a State but still loses that State... :popcorn:
We have 51 different elections, all run by different rules and regulations.
Well then they should make it: The candidate the wins the most states gets to become President…

[canyonblue]

I believe there is both voting fraud and vote counting fraud.

"It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."

[Cheiro]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.

The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue.
The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he/she will impersonate another voter at the polls.”

[Marty94]

I was at the county offices getting a ballot as mine had been sent out of state to my mailing address. In the line with me was an elderly man that had to come in because his signatures didn’t match. His hand writing had become illegible. He was in a wheelchair and accompanied by his daughter. When I went to drop off my ballot, the woman taking it looked at my signature, scoffed and said in a nasty tone, “they probably aren’t going to accept this”. I didn’t know what to say. I mean, it’s my signature. So, here are two different examples of issues with mail-in ballots. How many elderly mail-in ballots were rejected and the member couldn’t get to a county office to verify, and how many last-minute ballots like mine might have been rejected?

Separate subject, but related, I just received a driver’s license renewal at my military home of record. I haven’t held a state driver’s license from them in years. FL was supposed to notify them when I was issued my driver’s license here. I’m still trying to correct this. Along with my license is voter registration, but I am registered here. So, I guess I have to ask, do the states ever talk to each other?

[canyonblue]

BREAKING: Poll Watchers Being KICKED OUT of Philadelphia Polling Places (Video)

Poll watchers denied entry (https://us24news.com/2020/11/03/breaking-republican-poll-watchers-being-kicked-out-of-philadelphia-polling-places/?fbclid=IwAR0eCsP-GbaoCe3J_QAq7lEvylTYnTjuRNnQ6brhlke2tnEEKYjXkgf-bcc)

[toeser]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.

Mail-out ballots were an invitation for fraud and that system should not exist. Absentee ballots require that you, the voter, request the ballot. When a state mails out ballots for every registered voter, there are going to be problems because no state has up-to-date voter rolls. People move, people die. Someone is going to get those ballots and it's not the person intended.

When I moved from my northern state to Florida, it took me over two years to get my name off the rolls in my northern state and I was trying. Most people don't bother to try to clear their name off the voter rolls. It's a bad system.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Hmmmm one side had perfect early mail in vote and perfect ID at polls , the other side had all illegal mail in ballots and fake Id ‘S at polls hmmmmm

[airstreamingypsy]

Voter fraud is almost non existent, it's a fantasy created by someone who cannot stand to lose, was setting up to have a reason why he lost.

[Villages Kahuna]

Voting procedures are established by laws passed by the various state legislatures. There are wide variations in those procedures.

Instances of “voter fraud” are demonstrable and provable violations of our state voting laws, not just what you think or wish is evidence of fraud.

Think of it this way...would you be so certain that you have observed or experienced instances of voter fraud that you would hire an attorney to file a lawsuit asserting fraud and pay the legal fees from hour own pocket? If you weren’t sure it was a violation of state voting laws, or if you didn’t have the evidence to prove your assertion, chances are it wasn’t “fraud”.

[KRM0614]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.
Like Jackson brown music

[xcaligirl]

Is it o.k. to say I am frustrated and depressed? I am.
Me too, Gracie. I don't think we're alone on this one!

[Tennisnut]

Me too, Gracie. I don't think we're alone on this one!

Me too Gracie. I have felt that way for the last 4 years. However, I am encouraged by the majority of the people in this nation and they have spoken. It has given me new faith that we will become a United States of America.

[Lottoguy]

In PA they have had 19 watchers from both sides INSIDE watching the counting. DJT said there was none. A blatant lie that only finds the ears of those who want to believe. So sad....

[Lottoguy]

There is a study that says your more likely to get hit by lightning then get away with voter fraud.

[Lottoguy]

There is a study that says your more likely to get hit by lightning then get away with voter fraud. Getting Hit by Lightning Is More Common Than Voter Fraud in the US (https://couriernewsroom.com/2020/10/15/getting-hit-by-lightning-is-more-common-than-voter-fraud-in-the-us/)

[Lottoguy]

I've always been asked to show ID when I vote. Getting Hit by Lightning Is More Common Than Voter Fraud in the US (https://couriernewsroom.com/2020/10/15/getting-hit-by-lightning-is-more-common-than-voter-fraud-in-the-us/)

[Maryland Girl]

The problem is unsolicited mass mailed ballots. That is why they are looking closely at Nevada.

Briefly, in Nevada, as in other states, the voter rolls can be dirty, meaning they have deceased people and people who have moved out of state. Again, in Nevada, they mail out ballots to everyone on the voter roll. Multiple ballots end up at the same address because there was a person living there who is now deceased or there is a live person(s) living at that address currently. Also, in Nevada, they changed the rules so that the ballot is not verified by a signature. This leads to ballot harvesting; people, some of whom are paid by taxpayer dollars, can help the voter to fill out the ballot, and/or collect bundles of ballots. These bundles can be set aside and as the vote count goes on, they know how many votes they need to win so they just count more ballots from those in the bundle. There is photographic evidence in previous Nevada elections of ballots just laying out on the street and in the gutters. Especially along the strip. My understanding is that the lawsuit brought by the Trump administration in Nevada wants to prove that this type of mass mailing of ballots leads to systemic voter fraud across multiple states. This is how it may end up at the SC.

This is what happened in CA in 2018 (where ballot harvesting is legal) when multiple candidates for the House who 'won' their elections were later told they had lost. One rep. was even sworn in before being told they had lost. There was no push back on this so it continues. It is also what was happening to Scott and DeSantis in 2018. As the evening wore on, boxes of ballots were being found under desks, in car trunks, etc. in Broward and Palm Beach Counties. DeSantis cleaned this up, which was instrumental in FL having such a successful uncontested election in 2020.

It does not matter what party you belong to. Every citizen should be concerned and want fair elections with integrity. If they can commit fraud this election, then they can commit fraud in another election. That goes for either party. Remember the recent case in NC where a Republican was committing fraud and the whole election result was thrown out and the election held again. The American people have lost so much faith in their institutions and if they lose faith in the integrity of our elections, that is of great importance to us as a nation. We should all stand together and reject any voter fraud because it is not a partisan issue.

[kenoc7]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.
There have been hundreds of studies of voter fraud in the US and they always show that it is non-existent or minuscule. The continuing narrative saying it exists is just another worthless conspiracy theory.

[Lottoguy]

Getting Hit by Lightning Is More Common Than Voter Fraud in the US (https://couriernewsroom.com/2020/10/15/getting-hit-by-lightning-is-more-common-than-voter-fraud-in-the-us/)

[Lottoguy]

What is your source for saying this? Talk is cheap...

[kenoc7]

The problem is unsolicited mass mailed ballots. That is why they are looking closely at Nevada.

Briefly, in Nevada, as in other states, the voter rolls can be dirty, meaning they have deceased people and people who have moved out of state. Again, in Nevada, they mail out ballots to everyone on the voter roll. Multiple ballots end up at the same address because there was a person living there who is now deceased or there is a live person(s) living at that address currently. Also, in Nevada, they changed the rules so that the ballot is not verified by a signature. This leads to ballot harvesting; people, some of whom are paid by taxpayer dollars, can help the voter to fill out the ballot, and/or collect bundles of ballots. These bundles can be set aside and as the vote count goes on, they know how many votes they need to win so they just count more ballots from those in the bundle. There is photographic evidence in previous Nevada elections of ballots just laying out on the street and in the gutters. Especially along the strip. My understanding is that the lawsuit brought by the Trump administration in Nevada wants to prove that this type of mass mailing of ballots leads to systemic voter fraud across multiple states. This is how it may end up at the SC.

This is what happened in CA in 2018 (where ballot harvesting is legal) when multiple candidates for the House who 'won' their elections were later told they had lost. One rep. was even sworn in before being told they had lost. There was no push back on this so it continues. It is also what was happening to Scott and DeSantis in 2018. As the evening wore on, boxes of ballots were being found under desks, in car trunks, etc. in Broward and Palm Beach Counties. DeSantis cleaned this up, which was instrumental in FL having such a successful uncontested election in 2020.

It does not matter what party you belong to. Every citizen should be concerned and want fair elections with integrity. If they can commit fraud this election, then they can commit fraud in another election. That goes for either party. Remember the recent case in NC where a Republican was committing fraud and the whole election result was thrown out and the election held again. The American people have lost so much faith in their institutions and if they lose faith in the integrity of our elections, that is of great importance to us as a nation. We should all stand together and reject any voter fraud because it is not a partisan issue.
If Americans have "lost faith" it is almost entirely caused by false claims (like yours) of voter fraud. In the end, truth will conquer all the BS claims.

[Lottoguy]

Actually in PA the state Democrats wanted to count the votes early as they came in. It was the Republican controlled house in PA that decided on counting the mail-in votes on the day of the election. It is them that caused this delay. Why Pennsylvania is still counting votes after Election Day - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pennsylvania-counting-votes-election-day/story?id=73993649)

[jmpalladino]

There has been absolutely no proof of Voter Fraud, only conspiracy theories, and the instance by the Loser.

[Lottoguy]

Source for "no observers in some states" please? I can't find that anywhere.

[Lottoguy]

Yes, I too watched that FOX rebuttal on the NO OBSERVERS in PA. Such terrible lies from DJT that can only harm our country. We need to heal as a country.

[Dana1963]

Actually in PA the state Democrats wanted to count the votes early as they came in. It was the Republican controlled house in PA that decided on counting the mail-in votes on the day of the election. It is them that caused this delay. Why Pennsylvania is still counting votes after Election Day - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pennsylvania-counting-votes-election-day/story?id=73993649)
This fact was repeated on Fox&Friends this morning as with other Conservative-controlled legislators.

[PugMom]

Somehow, I'm not at all surprised.

your name says New Englander, so you know how it goes up there. whenever a certain candidate pulls ahead, the counting mysteriously stops until they can 'find' more ballots. they usually turn up somewhere in Bridgeport, typically in someone's car trunk, & are all marked for the same person.
as for what is going on today? i see a lot of hanging chads in our future

[rferg40]

"Since 2006, five cases of voter fraud have led to criminal convictions in Colorado, according to a database maintained by the Heritage Foundation, a conservative research and education institution."

Colorado has used mail in ballots for years without problems. I don't know if these five cases involved 5 ballots or more, but it would be hard to pull off on a massive scale.

I believe a paper ballot mailed in is more secure and less likely to be tampered with than a voting machine hooked up to the internet.

The scale of the fraud that would be required to change the outcome of most national or state elections would be much easier through "high" tech than the "low" tech paper ballot.

[Conniehar]

In Illinois you do not need an ID to vote. Verbal confirmation of your name, address and DOB is all that is requested. And you receive a regular ballot - not provisional.

[OhioBuckeye]

Then the TOTV banned me a while back for my FREEDOM OF SPEACH for mentioning a certain party & the person who thinks they’re President & lied like H_ _ _ in the debate. The election was a joke!

[Maryland Girl]

If Americans have "lost faith" it is almost entirely caused by false claims (like yours) of voter fraud. In the end, truth will conquer all the BS claims.

For heavens sake, I did not make up what I just wrote. It can be verified. This is not a partisan issue.

[Bucco]

For heavens sake, I did not make up what I just wrote. It can be verified. This is not a partisan issue.

Would love to hear your factual basis for your claim.

Links, etc

[Bucco]

Hmmmm one side had perfect early mail in vote and perfect ID at polls , the other side had all illegal mail in ballots and fake Id ‘S at polls hmmmmm

Please supply a factual basis for your claims.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

The problem is unsolicited mass mailed ballots. That is why they are looking closely at Nevada.

Briefly, in Nevada, as in other states, the voter rolls can be dirty, meaning they have deceased people and people who have moved out of state. Again, in Nevada, they mail out ballots to everyone on the voter roll. Multiple ballots end up at the same address because there was a person living there who is now deceased or there is a live person(s) living at that address currently. Also, in Nevada, they changed the rules so that the ballot is not verified by a signature. This leads to ballot harvesting; people, some of whom are paid by taxpayer dollars, can help the voter to fill out the ballot, and/or collect bundles of ballots. These bundles can be set aside and as the vote count goes on, they know how many votes they need to win so they just count more ballots from those in the bundle. There is photographic evidence in previous Nevada elections of ballots just laying out on the street and in the gutters. Especially along the strip. My understanding is that the lawsuit brought by the Trump administration in Nevada wants to prove that this type of mass mailing of ballots leads to systemic voter fraud across multiple states. This is how it may end up at the SC.

This is what happened in CA in 2018 (where ballot harvesting is legal) when multiple candidates for the House who 'won' their elections were later told they had lost. One rep. was even sworn in before being told they had lost. There was no push back on this so it continues. It is also what was happening to Scott and DeSantis in 2018. As the evening wore on, boxes of ballots were being found under desks, in car trunks, etc. in Broward and Palm Beach Counties. DeSantis cleaned this up, which was instrumental in FL having such a successful uncontested election in 2020.

It does not matter what party you belong to. Every citizen should be concerned and want fair elections with integrity. If they can commit fraud this election, then they can commit fraud in another election. That goes for either party. Remember the recent case in NC where a Republican was committing fraud and the whole election result was thrown out and the election held again. The American people have lost so much faith in their institutions and if they lose faith in the integrity of our elections, that is of great importance to us as a nation. We should all stand together and reject any voter fraud because it is not a partisan issue. get these unsolicited ballots , are people suggesting without any proof but one mans claims that we should have a new election even when people in charge of the elections both Republican and Democrat say they have no proof of fraud . The whole world is not only laughing but appalled that the greatest democracy in the world is acting like some banana republic

[quietpine]

Maybe it’s time to overhaul the 230 year old Constitution. It was written as a compromise to institutionalize slavery and we have been digging out ever since.

[Bucco]

The problem is unsolicited mass mailed ballots. That is why they are looking closely at Nevada.

Briefly, in Nevada, as in other states, the voter rolls can be dirty, meaning they have deceased people and people who have moved out of state. Again, in Nevada, they mail out ballots to everyone on the voter roll. Multiple ballots end up at the same address because there was a person living there who is now deceased or there is a live person(s) living at that address currently. Also, in Nevada, they changed the rules so that the ballot is not verified by a signature. This leads to ballot harvesting; people, some of whom are paid by taxpayer dollars, can help the voter to fill out the ballot, and/or collect bundles of ballots. These bundles can be set aside and as the vote count goes on, they know how many votes they need to win so they just count more ballots from those in the bundle. There is photographic evidence in previous Nevada elections of ballots just laying out on the street and in the gutters. Especially along the strip. My understanding is that the lawsuit brought by the Trump administration in Nevada wants to prove that this type of mass mailing of ballots leads to systemic voter fraud across multiple states. This is how it may end up at the SC.

This is what happened in CA in 2018 (where ballot harvesting is legal) when multiple candidates for the House who 'won' their elections were later told they had lost. One rep. was even sworn in before being told they had lost. There was no push back on this so it continues. It is also what was happening to Scott and DeSantis in 2018. As the evening wore on, boxes of ballots were being found under desks, in car trunks, etc. in Broward and Palm Beach Counties. DeSantis cleaned this up, which was instrumental in FL having such a successful uncontested election in 2020.

It does not matter what party you belong to. Every citizen should be concerned and want fair elections with integrity. If they can commit fraud this election, then they can commit fraud in another election. That goes for either party. Remember the recent case in NC where a Republican was committing fraud and the whole election result was thrown out and the election held again. The American people have lost so much faith in their institutions and if they lose faith in the integrity of our elections, that is of great importance to us as a nation. We should all stand together and reject any voter fraud because it is not a partisan issue.

I maintain that all our elections are honest and democratic, notwithstanding very few instances...ALL REPORTED AND INVESTIGATED

I am seeing no valid reasons for these false claims, certainly not on this forum, and not anywhere in this country.

Lateness of counting, and leaning of votes is easily and often xplained. I suggest that most of the "supposed" issues are the result of the GOP legislature in these states laws and rules.

If one side it committing fraud, they suck at it, because that fraud was not successful in so many cases on the same ballot as the accused fraud.

[Bucco]

get these unsolicited ballots , are people suggesting without any proof but one mans claims that we should have a new election even when people in charge of the elections both Republican and Democrat say they have no proof of fraud . The whole world is not only laughing but appalled that the greatest democracy in the world is acting like some banana republic

You are correct. We, the USA, are very much the butt of jokes all over the world. Our country seems to be in the mode of crying and accusing, instead of embracing our process.

[jnafix]

No mail in ballots unless you can prove you are incapacitated. Vote in person except for absentee ballots for those serving in Armed Forces. All ballots must be in and counted by Election Day. No exceptions. Just my thoughts. There was definitely room for fraud in this election.
Nope: remember Bush vs Gore. Florida state POPO roadblocks. Ohio moving around polling stations. People everywhere being told their polling places have just been moved. So many old people just want to go back to the Old Fashion Voting Fraud. Maybe only just because it only favored their party. Wake up it's 2020 and in four years we'll all most likely be voting on line.
:ohdear:

[ismatta]

Widespread voter fraud is a myth created by the losing party in an attempt to manipulate an election in their favor. Also known as cheating. Truth, honesty, and fairness is implicit in the foundations of our country. If there is fraud, where is the evidence? Show us the proof, or it is obvious you are attempting to cheat, and subvert democracy. Let move on from this obvious attempt to change a result you don’t like.

[Accidental1]

I think that there have been some sketchy things going on with the vote count in other states. I am proud of the way Florida handled the entire election process. If Florida can get an election night result, so should the other states.

I too believe Florida handled the election well. Perhaps all states need to allow counting of mail in ballots prior to election day so there won't be so much delay.

[coffeebean]

I think that there have been some sketchy things going on with the vote count in other states. I am proud of the way Florida handled the entire election process. If Florida can get an election night result, so should the other states.
Florida was a slam dunk for Trump. It was not close so of course Florida was called on election night. Having said that, if Florida was a tight race such as Penn. then Florida would also have to count every single vote to have a winner for the state.

[jebartle]

Is it o.k. to say I am frustrated and depressed? I am.

I've been that way for 4 years, your turn.

[jimjamuser]

Is it o.k. to say I am frustrated and depressed? I am.
Then maybe it is OK for me to say that I am relatively happy!

[canyonblue]

Mail-in ballots were part of a plot to deny Lincoln reelection in 1864

Traveling to Baltimore in the fall of 1864, Orville Wood had no way of knowing he would soon uncover the most elaborate election conspiracy in America’s brief history. Wood was a merchant from Clinton County in the most northeastern corner of New York. As a supporter of President Abraham Lincoln, he was tasked with visiting troops from his hometown to “look after the local ticket.” New York legislators had only established the state’s mail-in voting system in April with the intent of ensuring the suffrage of White troops battling the Confederate Army.

The results of the 1864 elections would heavily affect the outcome of the war. Lincoln and his supporters in the National Union Party sought to continue the war and defeat the Confederacy outright. Meanwhile antiwar Democrats, also referred to as Copperheads, looked for an immediate compromise with the Confederate leaders and the end of the abolition movement. Troops from New York were allowed to authorize individuals back home to cast a vote on their behalf. Along with their mail-in ballots, troops would assign their power of attorney on slips that required four signatures: the voter’s, the person authorized as a recipient, a witness to the signed affidavit and a fellow officer. These documents would be sealed in an envelope and shipped back home to be counted in the final vote. This was the process that Orville Wood intended to uphold, he would testify in court later. He quickly found out what a challenge that would be. Wood arrived at Fort McHenry in Baltimore to visit with the 91st New York Regiment. There, an Army captain suggested that there had been some “checker playing” when it came to the gathering of soldiers’ mail-in ballots. These suspicions of fraud were echoed when Wood visited wounded men at the Newton University Hospital. The rumors of wrongdoing led Wood to the office of Moses Ferry in Baltimore.

Ferry had been selected by New York Gov. Horatio Seymour to help oversee the voting process for New York’s enlisted men. Seymour had vetoed the initial bill to establish mail-in voting and would go on to run against Ulysses S. Grant in the 1868 presidential election. Wood masked his suspicions as he entered Ferry’s office, portraying himself as a strong supporter of Lincoln’s opponent, George McClellan. This was enough to gain Ferry’s trust, he testified later.

Ferry told Wood that the votes from New York’s 91st Regiment had already been tallied: 400 for McClellan and 11 for Lincoln.

Wood returned to the office later and, following Ferry’s instructions, began forging signatures of the 16th New York Cavalry. Meanwhile, a clerk sat across the room signing ballots from the roster of names Wood had brought with him from home. Wood asked to personally deliver these fraudulent ballots, but Ferry said they would have to receive final approval from his colleague in Washington — Edward Donahue Jr. Donahue soon arrived in Baltimore and met with Wood. It was revealed during this conversation that around 20 co-conspirators were already at work in D.C. to aid in the plot to deliver votes to McClellan. The following day Wood watched as Donahue and his crew formed a sort of assembly line, passing blank papers along to one another to be signed with the names of active enlisted men, wounded and dead soldiers, and officers who never existed.

In addition to operations in D.C. and Baltimore, the scheme extended back to New York. Donahue had received rosters of soldiers from military officials and members of law enforcement. A letter from Gen. J.A. Ferrell read, “Inclosed in this package you will find tickets, also a list of names of the actual residents of Columbia County, now members of the 128th Regiment. With my best wishes for your success.” A letter from Albany Sheriff H. Cromdell offered to send additional men to assist in Baltimore. The letter read, “All is well here, and we are confident of complete success. It is unnecessary to say that all here have entire confidence in your skill and abetting, and hope you like your help.”

Also discovered in Ferry’s office was a list of around 400 names belonging to sick and wounded soldiers under treatment at a nearby hospital. In reference to the roster, Ferry joked, “Dead or alive, they all had cast a good vote.”

Ferry, Donahue, and their fellow conspirators found humor in their work. One accomplice mocked the outcry he expected from abolitionist newspapers following the corruption of the election. The men bragged about their past successes in fixing local elections back home. Together, the men had shipped crates of fraudulent votes back to New York. But their scheme was over. Wood reported the operation to authorities. Ferry’s office was searched, and on the morning of Oct. 27, 1864 — less than two weeks before the election — he and Donahue stood trial before a military commission. Ferry offered a full confession that same day, even offering up the names of others involved in the scheme. Donahue proved more of a challenge. Following the first day of the trial, a reporter for the New York Times wrote, “The honest electors of the state of New York have escaped an extensive and fearful fraud, a fraud in keeping with the proclivities of the party in whose behalf it was initiated, but one that, if unexposed might have subverted the honest will of the people and left the state and the nation at the mercy of those who would make peace with rebellion and fellowship with traitors.”

Arrests in New York and Washington continued to mount as Donahue returned to trial. Following Wood’s damning testimony and supporting evidence, Donahue begged for mercy from the court. He was a young man, newly married, with no previous record. He visibly wilted as he realized the weight of his current situation, no longer expressing the defiance with which he had entered the proceedings. The judge advocate addressed the tribunal, saying that Donahue had engaged in one of the most gigantic frauds ever attempted in America — “a fraud which, if it shall be successful, will, in my opinion, have produced a disruption of our entire country, and our war for the preservation of the Union will be practically at an end and futile.”

In the months following Lincoln’s victory — he won 221 electoral votes to McClellan’s 21 — anti-abolitionist newspapers attacked his legitimacy, calling the trial another aspect of a conspiracy conducted by the president to ensure his reelection.

The commission that oversaw Ferry and Donahue’s trial recommended life in prison for the two men who sought to corrupt the election by mail. The president, who would soon be slain, approved.

[Byte1]

I am not wrong. Florida law does not require an ID to vote for president. If you show up with no ID, they can require you to use a provisional ballot to vote. Then, they are supposed to verify your signature with the voter registration signature on file. But, if they refuse to let you vote, they are violating Florida law.

You may be right, BUT I saw two people get sent home to get their IDs from early voting. I cannot understand how anyone would leave home without some form of ID, even if not a Villages ID, which they will take here.

[coffeebean]

My question is this, why is it that when all the early votes were in, one party was way ahead, then when people actually went to physically vote, the other side surged ahead, but then when the straggling mail in ballots got counted, the original party again surged back in front. Why does one party get it's advantage from early and mail in voting, while the other benefits from people actually physically showing up with a valid ID to vote? The whole thing seems kind of fishy to me? But then again, what do I know?

Not fishy at all. BEFORE Election Day, it was reported by all networks that initially on election night, Trump is going to have a very significant lead. Why? Because Trump encouraged his base to VOTE IN PERSON AT THE POLLS. We all know that the democrats take this virus very seriously and were not willing to go to the polls to cast their votes. Most democrats VOTED BY MAIL.

The votes to be counted first were the ballots cast on election day at the polls. Hence, big surge for Trump. Then after all those votes were to be counted, then the mail in votes would be counted. Hence, Biden surged ahead of Trump. I was expecting this to happen and I figured the country would understand what was predicted before Election Day.

What was predicted to happen has come to fruition. I'm not surprised.

[Byte1]

Yes Yes Yes - Now I believe you. There was wide spread voter fraud in the state of Florida because no one needed proof of citizenship or proof of residency. Lots of people even voted twice (because they were told to by potus). I'm with you brother. So you are saying that it's very possible that those electoral collage votes might have been meant go to the other guy. :pray:

I have no idea. I am just saying that we need an unimpeachable method of registering votes, so that there will be no question as to who wins, and no accusations. I see no valid argument against voter ID to prove citizenship. Think of all the money that would be saved if we had a certified picture form of voter registration that proved citizenship. AND NO ballots should be sent out unsolicited. And absentee ballots for those that find it impossible to vote in person, should be witnessed and certified by a gov official. An election is one of the most important occasion in anyone's life.

[Byte1]

You can't vote twice on the same bar code. Also when you register they do not use a digital signature.

I don't know about anyone else but I DID sign digitally using a cotton swab, here in the Villages during early voting.

[jebartle]

Has anyone noticed that the 9 states that vote exclusively by mail, no problem, hmmmm!
Lake co., fla, counted ballots when received, no problem, only the result, but that is democracy, I can live with that result, especially now.

[justjim]

Some lose with grace and some do not. Some win with grace and some do not. As far as the “election ballot process”, that process is given to the States and the States to their counties. That’s the way it works and that is one of the reasons attempted “fraud” is rare and and in a National presidential election one election after another the process has its checks and balances at the local level and the process works. This is how a democracy works.

[Buckeye Bob]

People should have to submit proof of identity in order to vote.

If voter fraud is proven, people need to go to jail regardless of party or position. That goes for all the crooks in DC.

[jimjamuser]

He's talking about mail-in voting, which requires you to not even be physically capable of presenting your ID to anyone. But it does require that your signature be on file (usually via your Florida drivers' license, which is now also a valid Federal ID, or in person registration to vote), so that the signatures can be matched when you sign the back of the envelope before mailing it in.

Considering that mail-in voting, *regardless of the reason for the mail-in, whether absentee or not* has existed since the Civil War, and considering that mail fraud has been negligible since, and considering that even when it IS discovered, it invalidates the fraudulent votes - thus making the actual votes valid and countable..

considering all that, mail-in ballots is not, nor has it ever been, a concern in this country.

In person voting HAS been a problem, particularly in Georgia and Florida, when a certain party did some certain things creating certain problems, and the subsequent attempts at covering it up were exposed.

So if it were me, I'd be more concerned about a certain party's attempts to subvert and corrupt the voting process at the polling places, and less concerned about mail-in voting.

I'm not all that concerned about either. The person I didn't want, took the Florida election fair and square. I don't like it, but I accept it. Hopefully, the people on that side will have the same attitude if their person doesn't win the final national result. Somehow though, considering THEIR history - I don't have much faith in that.
Good post. in the recent election, There were more than 150,000 ballots (and that may go up to 300,00) blocked (on purpose?) in Post Office facilities and NOT delivered by election day and therefore considered INVALID. Many were suspiciously found in battleground states. This should have been predicted and prevented when PO delivery statistics and procedures were changed in months leading up to Nov. 3rd. Where were the crack FBI investigators who are charged with preventing this type of crime? Where is the public outrage? Where are the criminal charges for leadership in the PO? A charge of TREASON would be fitting.

[Byte1]

In reality, the states that are slow in reporting are GOP controlled legislatures that insisted on tough regulations relative to counting votes, ie. Pennsylvania Republican legislature insisted that no mail in votes be touched until all votes cast on Election Day be counted. Same thing in Michigan and a few others, all controlled by GOP legislatures.

Interesting, if true. However, how do you explain Florida? Doesn't fit your premise does it? Florida had no problem getting their count done expeditiously.

[Bonnevie]

Wrong some state allows no observers

it's determined by their legislators....but regarding partisan observers it appears all state do allow it and 41 states require certification of those observers

Partisan Observers. Commonly known as poll watchers, these party people are deployed to do two things: report to their party headquarters about who has voted and who still needs a “nudge” to vote, and watch for any missteps in election processes. They’ve been in use for at least 100 years as a way to promote election integrity, with the idea that if both parties are watching, it’s much harder for either to tamper with the votes. Virtually all states govern how many watchers a party can send to each polling place, and at least 41 states have some kind of accreditation process for them.

[jimjamuser]

We are all frustrated, not depressed though. Don’t worry it’ll be over soon.
Unfortunately, it won't be over for years. A house divided can not stand!

[Doug526]

National Rules for All National Elections.
Not State Rules that can all be different.
Make it easy to go and vote, count as entered into machine,
No mater where the machine is located.
If a Voter goes to a machine to vote, they should first should ID to that machine before Ballot appears.
Place them in Secure areas in, maybe banking locations.
:posting:

[Byte1]

20 states do not require any form of ID to vote.

[Bucco]

Interesting, if true. However, how do you explain Florida? Doesn't fit your premise does it? Florida had no problem getting their count done expeditiously.

Florida law allows for counting well before Election Day.

Discussions are not getting that each state has different laws and regulations for the counting of votes

In addition, Florida actually sped up the counting, by law, because of COVID

[Bonnevie]

National Rules for All National Elections.
Not State Rules that can all be different.
Make it easy to go and vote, count as entered into machine,
No mater where the machine is located.
If a Voter goes to a machine to vote, they should first should ID to that machine before Ballot appears.
Place them in Secure areas in, maybe banking locations.
:posting:

then you'll need a constitutional amendment.

The Constitution grants the states the power to set voting requirements

[jimjamuser]

Remember the fake dossier presented to a FISA court judge
to spy on a candidate in the last
election by a dirty FBI paid for by a certain political party . I believe a certain political party would stop
at nothing to win an election . Now is the time to audit votes , recount votes and get to the bottom of election fraud for all Americans . This is not Venezuela.
Make the folks that perpetuated a crime as an example with heavy
prison sentences and fines as an example. It’s important , Americans need to know if a crime was committed or not . We need to rid our government of corruption.
Too many conspiracy theories can have a devastating effect on a person's mind. The older we get the harder it is to differentiate between truth and propaganda. Good luck!

[jimjamuser]

So, what would you call it if not voter suppression and/or racism? The Post Master General is replaced by a billionaire that had no experience in postal operations, and the first thing he does is eliminate great number of sorting machines. Do you think that slows the process? How about a number of states limiting the number of drop off boxes? You think that might be akin to voter suppression? I know that I'd find it too inconvenient if I had to drive eight to gen miles in my county to drop off my vote at the only drop box in the county. This is especially problematic in the poorer sections of the community, where many people must rely on public transportation to get around.
Good solid and factual post. Kudos.

[Byte1]

There is ALWAYS some form of voter fraud. I can remember just a few years ago where a guy in one of the Southern states voted three times and was arrested when found out. In states that do not require any form of ID to vote, there is always someone that is found to be voting for his/her parents or another relative. I am still registered in another state after being here for ten years. My father is still registered in another state and he has been deceased for a decade. That state does not require any form of identification. You just tell them your name and address and they look it up on the computer to prove that a person with that name and address is registered.
For those that say that investigations have been completed with no evidence of voter fraud, that is not correct. However, many states have refused access to officials coming from outside of the state to perform an investigation for voter fraud. If one cannot investigate, it is very difficult to prove an accusation. It is also hard to prove voter fraud without voter ID. It is also interesting when bags of ballots disappear or suddenly appear in a trunk of a car. Apparently, it is only one side of that feels that there is no voter fraud. This argument has been rehashed over and over again after every election. Last time it was the "Russians are coming" where they were accused of fixing the election for one candidate. Another accusation was of interfering with the election. One party believes in BIG conspiracies involving espionage with voter suppression and the other party believes simply in voter fraud.
The party that does not believe in voter fraud, also does not believe in requiring ID. Their excuse is racist. They insist that minorities are too inept to obtain a photo ID and are disenfranchised.

[Tom2172]

Florida counted 43 million votes on election night
Why didn’t all the states do it?
Elections with out transparency and poll watchers are fraudulent

Mail in ballots were put out for voting fraud and that’s what we got everyone knew it
Trump warmed about it for months

Now we have an election determined by party operatives counting votes behind closed doors with no poll watchers no cameras no transparency

Jospeh Stalin said elections are meaningless it’s the people that count the votes that decide election -

We need a total revote of the election with voter ID, poll watchers , cameras etc
Full transparency everyone should be for free and open elections!
Without games being played

Revote on a Saturday polls open 24 hours fully staffed it can be done!

[Dgodin]

Hey you'll, this discussion doesn't have to be "political", so let's not make this about one party or another. Do not mention the "D" word or "R" word, nor the "B" word or the "T" word.

Because, doing so will get this thread deleted.

This is about our political process, defined by the Constitution of the United States with a preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Please read this twice (or more). Pay particular attention to the concepts enumerated within the parentheses.

With that in mind, let's discuss voter fraud.

You first.
I volunteered as a poll watcher this election at the Lady Lake Library. I did not see evidence of any voter fraud or attempts at voter fraud. In addition, I saw that the poll workers were professional and helpful in their interactions with voters. I found especially that the clerks (location supervisor) were especially inclined to help voters resolve problems and cast legal ballots. I left my volunteer service optimistic about the future of our country.

[Kilmacowen]

I volunteered as a poll watcher this election at the Lady Lake Library. I did not see evidence of any voter fraud or attempts at voter fraud. In addition, I saw that the poll workers were professional and helpful in their interactions with voters. I found especially that the clerks (location supervisor) were especially inclined to help voters resolve problems and cast legal ballots. I left my volunteer service optimistic about the future of our country.

I also was a poll volunteer , equal dem and repub workers and watchers. Also security cameras everywhere. Any slight question about a ballot both supervisors were called over. I also gave permission for background check to be a volunteer. .

[Bonnevie]

in 2016 Wisconsin was won by only 22,745 votes: Michigan was won by only 10, 704 votes; PA by 44,292 (if current %s hold up Biden should exceed that)

the ONLY talk of voter fraud was by the winners who claimed there must be fraud because of their failure to win the popular vote. many, many people voted by mail, but the only fraud talk associated with it was regarding the popular vote not being in the winner's favor. in fact, a commission was appointed to much fan fare, then more more quietly disbanded when no evidence could be found.



the loser did not demand recounts, did not suggest fraud, and accepted the results after I'm sure considering all options.

so one wonders why fraud is such a topic of discussion this year

[Kilmacowen]

Florida counted 43 million votes on election night
Why didn’t all the states do it?
Elections with out transparency and poll watchers are fraudulent

Mail in ballots were put out for voting fraud and that’s what we got everyone knew it
Trump warmed about it for months

Now we have an election determined by party operatives counting votes behind closed doors with no poll watchers no cameras no transparency

Jospeh Stalin said elections are meaningless it’s the people that count the votes that decide election -

We need a total revote of the election with voter ID, poll watchers , cameras etc
Full transparency everyone should be for free and open elections!
Without games being played

Revote on a Saturday polls open 24 hours fully staffed it can be done!

Early voting in Florida started October 19 and were counted at that time . There were also 3 million mail in votes. They did not wait until election night to count the ballots. Due to a large population of senior citizens they had a significant number of volunteers.

[Bucco]

Florida counted 43 million votes on election night
Why didn’t all the states do it?
Elections with out transparency and poll watchers are fraudulent

Mail in ballots were put out for voting fraud and that’s what we got everyone knew it
Trump warmed about it for months

Now we have an election determined by party operatives counting votes behind closed doors with no poll watchers no cameras no transparency

Jospeh Stalin said elections are meaningless it’s the people that count the votes that decide election -

We need a total revote of the election with voter ID, poll watchers , cameras etc
Full transparency everyone should be for free and open elections!
Without games being played

Revote on a Saturday polls open 24 hours fully staffed it can be done!

One more time...

Florida LAW says they start to count the mail in votes well before Election Day.

Pennsylvania LAW says they cannot, BY LAW, touch mail in votes until all others are counted.

STATES run elections...their legislature makes the rules, and most are run by Republicans...Pa., Michigan, etc.

[Kilmacowen]

Florida counted 43 million votes on election night
Why didn’t all the states do it?
Elections with out transparency and poll watchers are fraudulent

Mail in ballots were put out for voting fraud and that’s what we got everyone knew it
Trump warmed about it for months

Now we have an election determined by party operatives counting votes behind closed doors with no poll watchers no cameras no transparency

Jospeh Stalin said elections are meaningless it’s the people that count the votes that decide election -

We need a total revote of the election with voter ID, poll watchers , cameras etc
Full transparency everyone should be for free and open elections!
Without games being played

Revote on a Saturday polls open 24 hours fully staffed it can be done!

Early voting in Florida started October 19 and were counted at that time . There were also 3 million mail in votes. They did not wait until election night to count the ballots. Due to a large population of senior citizens they had a significant number of volunteers.

[Worldseries27]

god is very much alive in the us and will stay that way. It is though worship by many different cultures with different views of god. The problem always comes up when some one with a lot of power starts dictating their view of god on others. A henry viii for instance who wants to get out of his passionless marriage to a catholic.
all european king's marriages were political arrangements. Passion had nothing to do with it
henry viii was a serial killer

[Going My Way]

We need to heal as a country.

":eek:" NOW you want Peace? :1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Worldseries27]

Hei maintain that all our elections are honest and democratic, notwithstanding very few instances...all reported and investigated

i am seeing no valid reasons for these false claims, certainly not on this forum, and not anywhere in this country.

Lateness of counting, and leaning of votes is easily and often xplained. I suggest that most of the "supposed" issues are the result of the gop legislature in these states laws and rules.

If one side it committing fraud, they suck at it, because that fraud was not successful in so many cases on the same ballot as the accused fraud.
SO BEING SO SURE OF YOUR POSITION I TAKE IT THAT YOU WILL EXPRESS NO OPPOSITION OR RESISTANCE TO THE SUPREME COURT MAKING THE FINAL DECISION REGARDING WHAT YOUR SO
SURE OF?
SESSION OVER

[Bucco]

He
SO BEING SO SURE OF YOUR POSITION I TAKE IT THAT YOU WILL EXPRESS NO OPPOSITION OR RESISTANCE TO THE SUPREME COURT MAKING THE FINAL DECISION REGARDING WHAT YOUR SO
SURE OF?
SESSION OVER

Will not make it to Supreme Court.

You must have solid evidence in any court.

Court system is not a political operation, and talking loudly and wildly with no factual back up gets cases thrown out early.

2000 election with "hanging chad" etc, the real actual closeness of the tallies had to go that high.

This election, the tallies were late (pandemic = lots of mail in) but final results are not that close, Georgia may be exception.

[Going My Way]

Vote Counting Software glitch has been found in one county in MI....

[Worldseries27]

will not make it to supreme court.

You must have solid evidence in any court.

Court system is not a political operation, and talking loudly and wildly with no factual back up gets cases thrown out early.

2000 election with "hanging chad" etc, the real actual closeness of the tallies had to go that high.

This election, the tallies were late (pandemic = lots of mail in) but final results are not that close, georgia may be exception.
your honors, the poster has not answered the question
i repeat
will you accept the supreme court decision if any in this matter?
Yes
or
no??

[coffeebean]

If anyone question fraud I ask them answer a simple question CO is 100% mail in and drop off.....zero votes in person. If they can count their ballots on Nov 3rd. Why are the battleground state stuck....why are ballots just popping up everywhere? CA, TX, FL, NY the highest populated states can count in one day in fact CA ...CALL IT WITHIN ONE HOUR. I don’t care what side you are on if you can see the fraud then you are be willfully blind

No state counts all their votes in one day. I've been watching very closely the percentages of votes that have been counted in all the states. Many states have taken at least until today to complete their vote counts. Most are at between 95% to 99% counted. NONE were completed in one day. Today is three days after election day and there are several states still counting their votes.

The states that are projected winners for one candidate ("called") on election night are those states that the races are not close at all. Easy to call it when there is a huge percentage difference for one candidate.

[coffeebean]

Mail in ballots......hello

You must be a registered voter to receive a mail in ballot. When you register, you submit ID and a signature. Isn't that what is required of a mail in ballot? I don't think mail in ballots are mailed to anyone who is not a registered voter. No?

[coffeebean]

In reality, the states that are slow in reporting are GOP controlled legislatures that insisted on tough regulations relative to counting votes, ie. Pennsylvania Republican legislature insisted that no mail in votes be touched until all votes cast on Election Day be counted. Same thing in Michigan and a few others, all controlled by GOP legislatures.

Seriously, that is ludicrous. Ballots received from early voting and mail in ballots should be counted as soon as they are received. I surely wish that ballot counting process would be adopted by all states by our next general election.

[cb1972]

You are correct. We, the USA, are very much the butt of jokes all over the world. Our country seems to be in the mode of crying and accusing, instead of embracing our process.

exactly "Crying and Accusing" instead of taking responsibility , getting an education , going to work and building a future for yourself and family.

[Accidental1]

If anyone question fraud I ask them answer a simple question CO is 100% mail in and drop off.....zero votes in person. If they can count their ballots on Nov 3rd. Why are the battleground state stuck....why are ballots just popping up everywhere? CA, TX, FL, NY the highest populated states can count in one day in fact CA ...CALL IT WITHIN ONE HOUR. I don’t care what side you are on if you can see the fraud then you are be willfully blind

Counting votes slowly and accurately isn't fraud. By the way, Colorado is allowed to start counting their votes weeks ahead of election day; that's why they get it done more quickly.

[rustyp]

If one is serious about cleaning up the voting process start with gerrymandering. Voter fraud doesn't hold a candle to this rigged concoction.

[coffeebean]

I'll add Maryland to the list. Except for certain rare cases you aren't asked for any form of ID when you vote.

What about when you register to vote? Did you have to produce photo ID along with your signature at that time ?

[Accidental1]

Vote Counting Software glitch has been found in one county in MI....

Can you please post the full story so we can understand the context?

[eremite06]

Actually I have less faith in federal government as years go by, corruption, career politicians, and billionaires interest to sway government. Hopefully I will be dead before it turns into just another 3rd world country.

That's what I've been telling my family.

[DAVES]

We often attend club lectures. Many years ago we went to one about diminished numbers of centrist voters and a rise in the number of people on the left and people on the right.
Of course the subject of dead people voting came up. At our table was me on the right and another guy on the left. We were both amused that we both were sure the dead voters voted on the other side. I'm certain that dead people vote. I hope there are enough on each side to cancel each other.

[Moderator]

This thread has turned political. I'm sure that's no surprise given the topic.

Posts will be deleted and infractions issued.

Moderator