What are they thinking?

[Gulfcoast]

Sorry but this COVID IS (big time IS) an extremely deadly virus that you REALLY do NOT want to tango with. Total deaths are about 1/4 of a MILLION deaths, today. Medical experts predict one-half of a million deaths by mid-2021. Today hospitalizations are about 4.5 million people. So, to extend that to mid-2021, that would be (say) about 10 million people that have been killed or have had terrible experiences with CV. A terrible experience could be a hospital bill too big to ever pay. So, by mid-2021 10 million out of 360 million have suffered badly from CV. That is 1 person out of every 36 that you walk by in a week had bad experiences. Then count the families that have been disrupted. That would make about 1 person out of EVERY 6th person having bad experiences with CV. NOW, everyone knows a friend that has been affected by CV and we are just to mid-2021. It might be over by then, but SOME MEDICAL experts believe that CV will remain an every- year problem into the future????

I do not expect the rate of severe complications from COVID-19 to remain consistent. From my own observations, most of the people who are coming down with this virus are asymptomatic or only have very mild cold like symptoms. That indicates that the people who are suffering severe complications from the virus are in some way susceptible to getting seriously ill from it. Usually that means they have other fairly serious health problems that make them more vulnerable to getting sick from any virus not just COVID.

[coffeebean]

So, it has been REPORTED but they failed to REPORT what the side effects are? Then, it wasn't reported. More fake news.

You misunderstood what I said. The side effects of Covid were reported, I just don't remember what those side effects were. I believe motor issues and brain issues were mentioned but don't take that to the bank.

[Byte1]

Side effects that were reported at the beginning were blood clots. Who knows whether that was from the virus or from the treatment.

Lets not over inflate the virus. It is what it is, and it is not the end of civilization. It may cause the end of some of our liberties though, if folks don't settle down and quit demanding laws enacted to limit our freedom and liberty.
The way I figure it (my opinion) we have a choice. We can do everything voluntarily to protect ourselves and suffer through an economic drought, or we can allow a few people in D.C. the power to limit and control our destiny. America's freedom and liberty is a model for the rest of the world. We give other countries hope. Hope that some day their country can be as great as ours.
The more power we give a few politicians over us, the more they move us into slavery. Although, there are some countries out there that need or enjoy having a gov nanny.

[coffeebean]

Herd immunity is what Fauci and other "experts" were pushing for early on. Now it's stupidity? I don't think so. It's REALISTIC as my original post read.

If flu vaccine penetration is any guide, less than 40% will take a vaccine that comes along. I think even less than the flu vaccine participants will accept it because it is new and rushed. Everyone saying they don't know what the future holds in terms of residual effects of getting the virus is not considering the unknown of a vaccine. Sure, they tested it. And those tested have had the vaccine for at most weeks or months. But the non-realists are worrying about months and years after getting the virus.

I prefer to trust my God-given immune system to take care of this much more than I trust Pfizer.

Again - REALISM. No matter what you think is stupid, REALITY will run you over like a truck. If only 30% get the vaccine, we are still going with herd immunity by INFECTION (not necessarily sickness or death). What if 90% get this new-fangled vaccine because it's free and widely available and suddenly MILLIONS are dying. What then? Personally, I will be calling that STUPID.

On the plus side, that will make a lot of water front property available and good prices and simultaneously solve the social security financial mess. I think those relying on a vaccine are the stupid ones.

Dr. Fauci never advocated herd immunity. Where did you get that from?.......

Dr. Fauci says letting the coronavirus spread to achieve herd immunity is '''nonsense''' and '''dangerous''' (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/15/dr-fauci-says-letting-the-coronavirus-spread-to-achieve-herd-immunity-is-nonsense-and-dangerous.html)

[jimjamuser]

Herd immunity is what Fauci and other "experts" were pushing for early on. Now it's stupidity? I don't think so. It's REALISTIC as my original post read.

If flu vaccine penetration is any guide, less than 40% will take a vaccine that comes along. I think even less than the flu vaccine participants will accept it because it is new and rushed. Everyone saying they don't know what the future holds in terms of residual effects of getting the virus is not considering the unknown of a vaccine. Sure, they tested it. And those tested have had the vaccine for at most weeks or months. But the non-realists are worrying about months and years after getting the virus.

I prefer to trust my God-given immune system to take care of this much more than I trust Pfizer.

Again - REALISM. No matter what you think is stupid, REALITY will run you over like a truck. If only 30% get the vaccine, we are still going with herd immunity by INFECTION (not necessarily sickness or death). What if 90% get this new-fangled vaccine because it's free and widely available and suddenly MILLIONS are dying. What then? Personally, I will be calling that STUPID.

On the plus side, that will make a lot of water front property available and good prices and simultaneously solve the social security financial mess. I think those relying on a vaccine are the stupid ones.
One-click over the line - sweet Jesus. When REAL epidemiologists like Dr. Fauci talk of herd immunity it is different than when fake Dr's like Dr. Atlas speak of herd immunity. Dr. Fauci means when 80 or 90 % of a country is vaccinated, then BECAUSE OF the vaccine the "herd" is SATISFACTORILY protected with vaccine stimulated anti-bodies. Dr. Atlas means when 80% of the herd gets SICK, that the SURVIVERS have anti-bodies for the disease. LESS people DIE with Dr. Fauci's method! And, actually, Dr. Atlas was just part of the con job of a justification for a botched (un-scientific) early country-wide Federal response to the CV crisis!

[dave from deland]

I will not go to places with unrestricted crowds and will follow CDC guidelines at stores, etc.

[coffeebean]

Then don't complain when someone does not agree with your view and decides not to wear a mask. You cannot make demands on other people, just because you believe all the hype and wish to panic when you see someone not wearing a mask. It is your choice to jump into the water. Most likely there won't be a 'gator in the water, but there could be. It is only your fault if you wish to enter the "danger" zone.

Hype? It is not hype when I can see with my own eyes the havoc this virus has caused in many large cities in our country. To see our health care workers, doctors and first responders pleading with people to follow guidelines that you resist and refuse to do, makes my heart hurt. There is no getting through to you or any of the people who think like you do.

[Dorebea]

No religion would say for people to SURRENDER to a PLAGUE and become a denier of Science!

Please see the CDC case study in my post #246

[Bill14564]

There simply is no question that masks save lives. Thus, they are recommended by virtually every expert in the field.

There are several people on this board who question whether masks save lives. If *virtually* every expert in the field recommends them then that implies there are *some* experts in the field that don't. The states with strict mask mandates today are seeing an increase in cases too. Yes, they must be doing SOMETHING wrong, but maybe, just maybe, that SOMETHING is relying too much on the mask.

Personally, I DO believe masks can make a difference and I am happy to see businesses require them. I DON'T believe they are a complete solution or the only thing needed for a solution.

[Bill14564]

...
Failure to do this will cause Florida to become like South Dakota which today has a 60% positive CV rate, meaning that every 2 out of 3 persons is carrying the virus.

Small correction: 60% is 3 out of 5, not 2 out of 3. And, more importantly, 60% represents the rate of *tests* that are coming back positive,. 3 out of 5 people tested have positive tests but since not all people are being tested it is not accurate to say that 3 out of 5 persons in South Dakota are carrying the virus.

[jimjamuser]

Wisconsin is lucky to get it that high. We need 90%-100% positivity and this will be over. The weak will die and 99% will survive. What - evolution and survival of the fittest is no longer the religion you profess?
Be careful what you want to be professed. I will go ALL Professor on you and say.........all religions are relics from past near tribal cultures, that were designed to keep the masses in line. Today they are quaint, but still dangerous devices to drive wedges between groups and sub-cultures. They are by nature CONSERVATIVE because they cling to the status quo primarily to benefit the upper class and hypnotize the lower classes.

To prove that - just remember that the cause of most wars throughout History has been RELIGION. It is ironic that religiosity preaches peace and harmony while, in fact, creating violence. End of my professing, no more forever!

[coffeebean]

WHY?
Perhaps I wish to see everyone wear only blue shirts and pants. Does my demand matter any less or more than yours?

Those are not my demands. Those are guidelines from the CDC that I wish people would abide by. Following the guidelines to mitigate a virus and prevent our health care system from becoming over whelmed is not that same as your demand for everyone to wear only blue shirts and pants.

Just wondering.....don't you think sporting events should have stadiums filled with fans? If you do, that is never going to happen if folks refuse to follow guidelines to slow the spread of the virus.

I make no demands. It is more of a pleading than a demanding. Hope folks realize that I just want to see this country come through this pandemic without losing hundreds of thousands more lives to Covid.

[jimjamuser]

I think that Desantis is one of the best governors in this entire country. When this crisis first began, he had the foresight to protect our most vulnerable senior citizens by implementing strict visitation guidelines in assisted living and nursing home communities.

Some of the most abysmal statistics in that regard come from the states like Michigan, NY and NJ who put COVID-19 patients in with medically fragile elderly people while shutting out visits from their (very) concerned family members. The lack of common sense and decency in those so called leaders is beyond appalling and they are not the ones to look to for standards.

Statistics are simply not bearing out this idea that shut downs, mask mandates, curfews or other draconian rules are keeping citizens any safer.
There are YouTube videos of scientific tests that use special light to show droplets emitted when people breathe. Then they show different situations and you can see how far the droplets travel - like with masks and when shouting and when sneezing. It is PROOF THAT MASKS WORK!

[jimjamuser]

Then don't complain when someone does not agree with your view and decides not to wear a mask. You cannot make demands on other people, just because you believe all the hype and wish to panic when you see someone not wearing a mask. It is your choice to jump into the water. Most likely there won't be a 'gator in the water, but there could be. It is only your fault if you wish to enter the "danger" zone.
I don't understand that point about NOT having demands on an individual. We all have legal demands on us. It is DEMANDED that we do NOT exceed speed limits, that we do NOT REMOVE emission equipment from vehicles, that go to school after a certain age, that we don't do violence to other people and property. It is DEMANDED by society that we do NOT drive while intoxicated or under other influences. Our parents DEMANDED that we brush our teeth.

Society is not without DEMANDS, it is an integral part of group living.

[Advogado]

There are several people on this board who question whether masks save lives. If *virtually* every expert in the field recommends them then that implies there are *some* experts in the field that don't. The states with strict mask mandates today are seeing an increase in cases too. Yes, they must be doing SOMETHING wrong, but maybe, just maybe, that SOMETHING is relying too much on the mask.

Personally, I DO believe masks can make a difference and I am happy to see businesses require them. I DON'T believe they are a complete solution or the only thing needed for a solution.
I used the adverb "virtually" because I am sure that some purported "expert" does not agree that masks work. Neither I nor anybody else claims masks are a "complete" solution. They are clearly a necessary part of getting the virus under control, which is necessary to save both lives and our economy. We need immediate county action on a mask mandate.

[Gulfcoast]

I will not go to places with unrestricted crowds and will follow CDC guidelines at stores, etc.

This is reasonable. When you mitigate your own risks, what others do is less important.

[jimjamuser]

Side effects that were reported at the beginning were blood clots. Who knows whether that was from the virus or from the treatment.

Lets not over inflate the virus. It is what it is, and it is not the end of civilization. It may cause the end of some of our liberties though, if folks don't settle down and quit demanding laws enacted to limit our freedom and liberty.
The way I figure it (my opinion) we have a choice. We can do everything voluntarily to protect ourselves and suffer through an economic drought, or we can allow a few people in D.C. the power to limit and control our destiny. America's freedom and liberty is a model for the rest of the world. We give other countries hope. Hope that some day their country can be as great as ours.
The more power we give a few politicians over us, the more they move us into slavery. Although, there are some countries out there that need or enjoy having a gov nanny.
Agreed that the US was ONCE a model for freedom and liberty for other countries to follow. That was about pre-1970. Today the world LAUGHS at us as we teeter on the brink of losing our precious freedoms. We are low on the world list for "quality of life". We have the HIGHEST wealth disparity of any western country. We have a recent tax cut that was NOT needed and further hurts the wealth disparity. We are fighting about little things like mask-wearing, when we need a united front against a dangerous Plague. Nobody, but me, mentions Global Warming because we created so many other problems for OURSELVES. Racism as a problem should have been fixed 50 years ago. WE had some elements of the GREATEST country back pre-1970 (at least whites did) but we evolved from that point rather sideways - not making substantial progress forward from there. So, here we are - some like yourself feel that the US is wonderful. I feel like we had our chance and BLEW it! And the future is NOT so bright that we have to wear shades - we have to wear HazMat suits!!!!!

[mistervin]

You are free to go or not go to the Square, live in The Villages, Florida or not.

[coffeebean]

O.k. so you don't want people to impose restrictions on you that you don't agree with but you feel it's o.k. to impose your restrictions on others that they don't agree with?

I think that people have been playing along with the masks for the most part and there will be some major push back if there are mask mandates put in place.

Those are not "my" restrictions. They are the guidelines put forth by the experts in the field of epidemiology. Let's not forget that the CDC is in existence to maintain our public health and safety.

[coffeebean]

You're using unreasonable goalposts to justify an opinion that has no justification.

Yes people who have EXTREME situations, need to take EXTREME measures. But MOST people don't have extreme situations. Most people - especially here at the Villages, have moderate risks. Higher risks simply by virtue of the fact that they're OLD, and lower risks by virtue of the fact that this is an active community and most of these old people don't hang out on rocking chairs knitting until their arthritis and dementia puts them in a home for the aged. I'd venture to guess that the overall fitness level of our community is the #1 reason we're not all sick - and if it weren't for that, there would be thousands more dead old people in Sumter County than the comparable low quantity there are now.

You're also using "safe from" as your benchmark. That is an unreasonable benchmark. The appropriate and correct benchmark with regards to mask wearing, social distancing, and hand sanitizing is "LESS UNSAFE."

There is a HUGE difference between "100% safe" and "less unsafe." There is ALWAYS a risk. The risk is reduced when we (get ready for it)...


(wait for it)...


(drumroll)...


Wash your hands. Social distance. Wear a mask.

Risk reduction. Not safe. Less unsafe. Risk reduction. Not safe. Less unsafe.

Not sure how many posts have to have these phrases in them, before people who insist that the opposite of their opinion is "masks will prevent" anything at all, realize that it is not the opposite of their opinion.

Their opinion is "screw masks, they don't work, I don't like them, I don't wanna, my freedom to go where I want and if you don't like it stay home."

OUR opinion is: "Masks REDUCE THE RISKS, we don't like them, we don't wanna, but we are civilized, so if you don't like it, YOU stay home."

OBB....you have such a way with words!

[Gulfcoast]

Those are not "my" restrictions. They are the guidelines put forth by the experts in the field of epidemiology. Let's not forget that the CDC is in existence to maintain our public health and safety.

They are guidelines just like a hot weather advisory is a guideline which usually tells older people and those with compromised health to limit their time outdoors.

It doesn't mean that the elderly and those with compromised health are not allowed outdoors. They can go outside if that is what they choose to do.

A guideline to wear a mask and avoid crowded places are guidelines that you are free to follow. Always maintain at least 6 feet between yourself and another person and you should have no problem. Just don't expect others to do as you do.

[Bucco]

Agreed that the US was ONCE a model for freedom and liberty for other countries to follow. That was about pre-1970. Today the world LAUGHS at us as we teeter on the brink of losing our precious freedoms. We are low on the world list for "quality of life". We have the HIGHEST wealth disparity of any western country. We have a recent tax cut that was NOT needed and further hurts the wealth disparity. We are fighting about little things like mask-wearing, when we need a united front against a dangerous Plague. Nobody, but me, mentions Global Warming because we created so many other problems for OURSELVES. Racism as a problem should have been fixed 50 years ago. WE had some elements of the GREATEST country back pre-1970 (at least whites did) but we evolved from that point rather sideways - not making substantial progress forward from there. So, here we are - some like yourself feel that the US is wonderful. I feel like we had our chance and BLEW it! And the future is NOT so bright that we have to wear shades - we have to wear HazMat suits!!!!!

You nailed it about our country not being a model for anything. We are mocked and ridiculed through the world. We have become a laughingstock, sadly. Our future is bleak right now.

[jimjamuser]

Small correction: 60% is 3 out of 5, not 2 out of 3. And, more importantly, 60% represents the rate of *tests* that are coming back positive,. 3 out of 5 people tested have positive tests but since not all people are being tested it is not accurate to say that 3 out of 5 persons in South Dakota are carrying the virus.
You are correct that 60% would be 3 out of 5 - 2 of 3 would be 66%. I guess I thought 66 was close to 60 and 2 out of 3 sounded more relatable to most people. So, I stand corrected! The other part about 60% being positive results divided by total tested people. I am ASSUMING that the results of that small study can be extrapolated to the whole population of South Dakota. I am NOT assuming that it would be exactly 60% of the whole state. I doubt that EVEN the preparers of the statistics that were releasing that information could guarantee it to be even within 10% accuracy for the whole state.

I would say that it ONLY indicates that South Dakota is a much HOTTER hot spot than FL. is right now. It could be because of lower temperatures and more indoor gatherings ( maybe in churches, without masks). There may be a whole host of other factors. I really do NOT know. Maybe wearing cowboy boots is a magnet for the virus? I am sure that some University is studying that.

I was just trying to make TV Land more aware of the problem and the need to have more awareness and to overcome COVID fatigue and an unreasoned fear of mask-wearing. We are older than South Dakota and we live more closely together, so there is a reasonable worry that TV Land could have cases around 60% and then what happens?

[coffeebean]

There are several people on this board who question whether masks save lives. If *virtually* every expert in the field recommends them then that implies there are *some* experts in the field that don't. The states with strict mask mandates today are seeing an increase in cases too. Yes, they must be doing SOMETHING wrong, but maybe, just maybe, that SOMETHING is relying too much on the mask.

Personally, I DO believe masks can make a difference and I am happy to see businesses require them. I DON'T believe they are a complete solution or the only thing needed for a solution.
Masks CAN be a solution but we Americans are no where near the compliance that is needed to mitigate the virus. I'm afraid we will never see the compliance that is needed for masks to really be effective in slowing the spread. Sad, isn't it?

[coffeebean]

There are YouTube videos of scientific tests that use special light to show droplets emitted when people breathe. Then they show different situations and you can see how far the droplets travel - like with masks and when shouting and when sneezing. It is PROOF THAT MASKS WORK!

Glad you brought that up. Just in case anyone has not seen this video.........

How Well Do Masks Work? (Schlieren Imaging In Slow Motion!) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/0Tp0zB904Mc)

[coffeebean]

They are guidelines just like a hot weather advisory is a guideline which usually tells older people and those with compromised health to limit their time outdoors.

It doesn't mean that the elderly and those with compromised health are not allowed outdoors. They can go outside if that is what they choose to do.

A guideline to wear a mask and avoid crowded places are guidelines that you are free to follow. Always maintain at least 6 feet between yourself and another person and you should have no problem. Just don't expect others to do as you do.


So.......are you saying that those who refuse to do the right thing and do their part to quell a virus which has created havoc on the world are to be tolerated?

[Gulfcoast]

You are correct that 60% would be 3 out of 5 - 2 of 3 would be 66%. I guess I thought 66 was close to 60 and 2 out of 3 sounded more relatable to most people. So, I stand corrected! The other part about 60% being positive results divided by total tested people. I am ASSUMING that the results of that small study can be extrapolated to the whole population of South Dakota. I am NOT assuming that it would be exactly 60% of the whole state. I doubt that EVEN the preparers of the statistics that were releasing that information could guarantee it to be even within 10% accuracy for the whole state.

I would say that it ONLY indicates that South Dakota is a much HOTTER hot spot than FL. is right now. It could be because of lower temperatures and more indoor gatherings ( maybe in churches, without masks). There may be a whole host of other factors. I really do NOT know. Maybe wearing cowboy boots is a magnet for the virus? I am sure that some University is studying that.

I was just trying to make TV Land more aware of the problem and the need to have more awareness and to overcome COVID fatigue and an unreasoned fear of mask-wearing. We are older than South Dakota and we live more closely together, so there is a reasonable worry that TV Land could have cases around 60% and then what happens?

The people in South Dakota sure seem to love their governor. They even threw her parade!
She must be doing something right for her citizens to approve so highly of her.

[Gulfcoast]

So.......are you saying that those who refuse to do the right thing and do their part to quell a virus which has created havoc on the world are to be tolerated?

Yes, absolutely we have to tolerate each other. The bottom line is we only have control over ourselves. If I am worried about catching this virus, I am going to 1) avoid crowds 2) stay 6 feet away from others at all times 3) wash my hands frequently 4) shop at less busy times. Masks won't do a thing if you don't do those 4 things and if you are doing those 4 things you should be good no matter what others may or may not do.

[Swoop]

I used the adverb "virtually" because I am sure that some purported "expert" does not agree that masks work. Neither I nor anybody else claims masks are a "complete" solution. They are clearly a necessary part of getting the virus under control, which is necessary to save both lives and our economy. We need immediate county action on a mask mandate.
So explain why states that have mandatory mask mandates are spiking at a rates equal to or higher than states without mandatory mask requirements? Look at the states & look at the number of positive cases. Then based on those numbers, justify why “we need immediate county action on a mask mandate”.

[B-flat]

If your that considered then stay home. Order on line get delivery service.. People just want to live there lives. The numbers are fudged it's been proven... So just be cautious for yourself. Wear a mask,gloves an your ok... 95% of the people are wearing mask an they say the numbers are climbing? People you really need to do your own research not just CDC or Media we know how accurate they are

Spoke to a friend who is a key member of the staff of a hospital which I will not name. From what I've heard they have 60 beds and only 12 are occupied with Covid19 patients only 2 of them are critical. Yup, I'm convinced the numbers are fudged and it wasn't only this person's report.

On the opening of the squares I'm blessed that I partied, did the nightclub dance scene until I was 32 while still unmarried. I had enough of that party dance drinking scene to last me the rest of my life. I find it comical 50, 60 and 70 year old somethings acting like teenagers. You don't have to hit that party scene to enjoy a contented and happy life.

Stay healthy everyone do what you feel is right for you.

[Polar Bear]

...I find it comical 50, 60 and 70 year old somethings acting like teenagers. You don't have to hit that party scene to enjoy a contented and happy life...
I don’t think they’re acting at all, especially not like teenagers. They’re living their life as 50, 60 and 70 year olds who actually enjoy the squares as part of their contented and happy life.

I find it comical...or maybe a better word is sad...when somebody judges others by their own standards when they really don’t have a clue.

[Gulfcoast]

Spoke to a friend who is a key member of the staff of a hospital which I will not name. From what I've heard they have 60 beds and only 12 are occupied with Covid19 patients only 2 of them are critical. Yup, I'm convinced the numbers are fudged and it wasn't only this person's report.

On the opening of the squares I'm blessed that I partied, did the nightclub dance scene until I was 32 while still unmarried. I had enough of that party dance drinking scene to last me the rest of my life. I find it comical 50, 60 and 70 year old somethings acting like teenagers. You don't have to hit that party scene to enjoy a contented and happy life.

Stay healthy everyone do what you feel is right for you.

Why should the kids have all the fun? When we move there I plan to spend my days going to fitness classes, golfing, biking, shopping, attending club meetings, swimming at the pool and once or twice a week we'll head to the squares for dinner, adult drinks and live entertainment.

[stanley]

.....

[Velvet]

“Stay healthy everyone do what you feel is right for you.”

That means I can go 180 mph on the highway with my Kawasaki 6R cause it feels right to me. (The bike is more steady at higher speeds.) Right?

[Advogado]

So explain why states that have mandatory mask mandates are spiking at a rates equal to or higher than states without mandatory mask requirements? Look at the states & look at the number of positive cases. Then based on those numbers, justify why “we need immediate county action on a mask mandate”.

I can explain it by questioning the accuracy of your statement and by referring you to this article, which is one of many confirming the effectiveness of mask mandates: Mask mandates: Why every state should have one, in 4 charts - Vox (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/21546014/mask-mandates-coronavirus-covid-19)

[VApeople]

You nailed it about our country not being a model for anything. We are mocked and ridiculed through the world. We have become a laughingstock, sadly. Our future is bleak right now.

We don't care. We are too busy just trying to enjoy each day.

[manaboutown]

:sad::sad::sad:

[manaboutown]

You are correct that 60% would be 3 out of 5 - 2 of 3 would be 66%. I guess I thought 66 was close to 60 and 2 out of 3 sounded more relatable to most people. So, I stand corrected! The other part about 60% being positive results divided by total tested people. I am ASSUMING that the results of that small study can be extrapolated to the whole population of South Dakota. I am NOT assuming that it would be exactly 60% of the whole state. I doubt that EVEN the preparers of the statistics that were releasing that information could guarantee it to be even within 10% accuracy for the whole state.

I would say that it ONLY indicates that South Dakota is a much HOTTER hot spot than FL. is right now. It could be because of lower temperatures and more indoor gatherings ( maybe in churches, without masks). There may be a whole host of other factors. I really do NOT know. Maybe wearing cowboy boots is a magnet for the virus? I am sure that some University is studying that.

I was just trying to make TV Land more aware of the problem and the need to have more awareness and to overcome COVID fatigue and an unreasoned fear of mask-wearing. We are older than South Dakota and we live more closely together, so there is a reasonable worry that TV Land could have cases around 60% and then what happens?

Thank you China, Wuhan especially, for sending this bioweapon out into the world.

[Pairadocs]

I totally agree with you.

Since the start of this pandemic my response to people going back to normal life has been “what’s changed?”

I am high risk and cannot resume my previous way of life.
I understand many are NOT high risk and their response may be quite different.

One thing we can all agree with is everyone would like life back to normal.

You are one of the few rational posters I've read. You understand you are high risk and you take responsibility for your health and safety. You also understand that there are many people who certainly do not deny the seriousness of this, but they are not in high risk categories and while they don't want to become ill, for each and every one, is some aching, head aches, some fever and maybe not, something they believe they have faced many times in their lives, yes it is. Few on here have your logical thinking, they think only with their own emotions. The Villages is an "Active Life Style" community and they DEFINITELY let it be known they are NOT a "retirement" community. When we first looked, they even corrected me immediately when I said, "we have life long family in Florida so we've been looking at a lot of retirement communities". I was corrected "WELL, if that is what you are looking for, this may not meet your needs, we don't have a rec center with a weekly bingo game and pool."
He went on to explain the scuba diving, the number of bicycle and motor cycle clubs, beach clubs, etc. etc. He let us know this was a golfing, pickle ball, dancing night life place. Even named a couple "retirement communities" in the area we might want to take a look at if that was what we were seeking.

I personally was leery of living completely separate from children and young families, I always felt my own life was enriched (when our boys were off to college) when a family moved in and we'd see some bicycles and a swing set ! And, also was so enriched by the retired folks who lived in our neighborhood who would have me over for coffee in the kitchen and chatting. Yes, they would leave for Florida or Arizona for January, and usually be back by March 1. We were so impressed by the grand parents and grand child program the villages puts on, amazed at the array of offerings.

The judgmental attitudes that seem to literally fly over this web site, is sad to see but it is human. It was so uplifting to read your post, you need to take special precautions and yet, you understand while others could become ill, they understand there degree of risk and they weight that against the possibility of NEVER seeing that new grand child or NEVER dancing with their loved one again... WHY ? Not because the caught the virus, but because they were in an auto accident, much higher risk of being killed every single time we get in an automobile, yet, because we think we are a very safe driver we get in our cars 2, 3, 4 times a day and KNOWING it is not us but some fool running a red light can hit us and we'll never even know how we were killed ! Life is to live. Diseases should be RESPECTED, and people should do what is right for them and leave other's to manage their own lives and assess their own risk level. Your way of analyzing your life and situation instead of judging all your friends is to be admired ! :bigbow:

[Swoop]

I can explain it by questioning the accuracy of your statement and by referring you to this article, which is one of many confirming the effectiveness of mask mandates: Mask mandates: Why every state should have one, in 4 charts - Vox (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/21546014/mask-mandates-coronavirus-covid-19)
Those are old numbers. Just look at the more current data. Example:
http://https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachments/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/86958d1605530454-what-they-thinking-f6f2632a-af8d-4223-9abd-219456bb7848-jpg

[merrymini]

Assuming masks and such work. Big assumption.

[Advogado]

Assuming masks and such work. Big assumption.

I don't know about the "and such", but masks do work.

[graciegirl]

I am convinced that most Villagers are taking Covid-19 very seriously. I watch the numbers of new cases and of deaths carefully in Sumter County where most of The Villages is.

We have not had a death in Sumter County for six days now and the new cases are in the teens. I was very surprised that we didn't have a spike after the large political gathering for the President a couple of weeks ago. I still along with our daughter have remained home and for the very few times I have gone out have been very careful, wearing a mask and using hand sanitizer. My husband goes out to play golf but continues to drive alone in the cart and stay distanced from his playing partners.

I think what we do is mattering, but there must be a lot of power in sunshine to keep the virus from spreading. I still am very glad we will soon have a vaccine.

Here are the numbers today for Sumter County;

coronavirus deaths sumter county florida - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=coronavirus+deaths+sumter+county+florida&cvid=19c41f86a3a94570ae414e38049264bd&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

The State of Florida is showing a large increase.

[Bill14564]

I don't know about the "and such", but masks do work.

Define "work."

Masks likely provide some level of effectiveness when used as a source control but less effectiveness when used to protect the wearer. Masks are less effective when not fitted properly even if worn over both nose and mouth. Masks are better than nothing but are not 100% effective.

Studies, expert's guidance, and anecdotal evidence are all over the map on this. Yes, I know, the studies that disagree with your position are flawed and the experts that disagree are quacks. The problem is, that statement applies equally to both sides of the argument.

Arguing that mask are worthless is foolish. Arguing that masks will save the world is foolish. Arguing that without masks we are all doomed is foolish.

Masks can help, if even a little bit, and are an important part of an overall strategy but that must also include avoiding high risk activities.

[Velvet]

Of course masks work. It depends on the type of mask. My university lab put many types of masks through very stringent testing. A neck gaiter or or bandana is made of loosely woven material and will let most of the virus through. A 600 count cotton mask (like some pillow cases) lets much less through. Three layers of mask, middle layer a filter, is almost as safe as the gold standard N95 mask.

The recent N95 masks we can buy have a relatively tight fit because of the elastic around the head, they can be made longer for very large heads. The tight fit makes sure no air flows through. Last spring in NY they found medical staff and first responders who worked directly with Covid positive patients had a lower infection rate than the general public. That is how well the masks and PPE work.

[YouNeverKnow]

Define "work."

Masks likely provide some level of effectiveness when used as a source control but less effectiveness when used to protect the wearer. Masks are less effective when not fitted properly even if worn over both nose and mouth. Masks are better than nothing but are not 100% effective.

Studies, expert's guidance, and anecdotal evidence are all over the map on this. Yes, I know, the studies that disagree with your position are flawed and the experts that disagree are quacks. The problem is, that statement applies equally to both sides of the argument.


Arguing that mask are worthless is foolish. Arguing that masks will save the world is foolish. Arguing that without masks we are all doomed is foolish.

Masks can help, if even a little bit, and are an important part of an overall strategy but that must also include avoiding high risk activities.
The hope is that if both people are wearing a mask that the viral load that is received from someone that might be positive is less than if neither is wearing a mask and exposed to a full viral load of the virus. There have been discussions that the amount of viral load someone receives may determine how sick they become.

[coffeebean]

So explain why states that have mandatory mask mandates are spiking at a rates equal to or higher than states without mandatory mask requirements? Look at the states & look at the number of positive cases. Then based on those numbers, justify why “we need immediate county action on a mask mandate”.
There will always be folks who will not follow the mandate and break the "law". They will go maskless and congregate in close quarters with others in non public spaces. Then they will go maskless into public spaces and spread the virus. There are way too many people who do not believe this virus is a threat and do not believe that masks are beneficial to slowing the spread of the virus.

Too many Americans are on this train and we Americans will never ever achieve the compliance of the people to pull off mitigating the virus by masking and social distancing. Sad, but true.

Our only salvation out of this mess is a vaccine. Just heard this morning that the Moderna vaccine has a 94.5% efficacy. That is wonderful news!

[coffeebean]

Define "work."

Masks likely provide some level of effectiveness when used as a source control but less effectiveness when used to protect the wearer. Masks are less effective when not fitted properly even if worn over both nose and mouth. Masks are better than nothing but are not 100% effective.

Studies, expert's guidance, and anecdotal evidence are all over the map on this. Yes, I know, the studies that disagree with your position are flawed and the experts that disagree are quacks. The problem is, that statement applies equally to both sides of the argument.

Arguing that mask are worthless is foolish. Arguing that masks will save the world is foolish. Arguing that without masks we are all doomed is foolish.

Masks can help, if even a little bit, and are an important part of an overall strategy but that must also include avoiding high risk activities.

Masks minimize the risk but they are more effective when people are distanced from each other. Sitting, shoulder to shoulder at a four top or six top, and worse yet, a 10 top in a restaurant with your closest friends is not a smart idea.

[Tom359]

Sweden had no lockdowns, no mask mandate. Number of deaths year to date is lower than previous years.

• Sweden: death rate 2010-2020 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/)

[Byte1]

Sorry, but I will NOT condone a mask mandate. I will entertain suggestions related to the safety of wearing a mask and maybe even go along with the mass hysteria and wear my mask like a good lil citizen. But, I will not agree with a Federal mandate to wear a mask and will not wear one if such a thing happens. Sorry, but I am not a needy lemming that will be lead around by the gov nanny. A CDC suggestion does not warrant a law.
How many of you will start wearing a mask during Flu season? Well if the gov decides that they got away with mandating a mandate for the virus, a flu mandate will be next.
Sorry, but as far as I am concerned you all are a bunch of needy babies that think that just because someone tells you that you will be safer if you wear a mask, wear a helmet, wear a seatbelt, that you NEED a law to make you wear one. Can't you use your own common sense and make your own decisions. Don't put the blame on me if you do not like what other people are doing. Being nosy and feeling the need to interfere with other folks living, is being a pest.
Beware of what you ask the gov to do FOR you. I am not anti government. I just believe in limitations when it comes to power. Once the vaccine is available I will NOT wear a mask again. Until then, I will wear a mask when I think it is necessary. I don't owe any of you anything, especially those on here that disparage this great nation. As far as I am concerned, those that suggest that other countries are laughing at us, do not know what they are speaking of. Until you live half you life in other countries, you do not know enough to even suggest that anyone in other countries would not give up their own families to be able to live here. The only thing they laugh at is the spoiled citizens that complain about how rough they have it here. I did not spend most of my life in service for this country to have a bunch of nobodies put down this great country, so I owe none of you anything. I paid in full, just like many others in my family before me.
You cry about how the gov MUST mandate masks for everyone, but you have no clue as to how it would be enforced. The police aren't going to enforce a mask law. They have way more important things to do than to babysit a bunch of no-loads. Will the mandate stipulate how one must wear the mask? Will it stipulate what an acceptable mask would be? Perhaps eye protection also? How about mandating gloves also? What a bunch of BS .
No one is arguing the fact that wearing a mask can protect to a certain extent. It is not the only thing that can protect. Long sleeved shirts, eye protection, gloves, and just plain staying at home....all protect to a certain extent.
The vaccine will be out shortly and then you won't have anything to complain about. Can't wait for the Flu season to get underway. Wonder how many will wear their masks then. After all, the mask protects...........:1rotfl:

[Bucco]

We don't care. We are too busy just trying to enjoy each day.

And I hope you enjoy them to the fullest.

Unfortunately, you are quoting me and criticizing me out of context....very exasperating, but I suspect it was already known and had other reasons.

A poster way back said that the United States is the model for the rest of the world, and I simply agreed with another poster who challenged that thinking. Of course, they were left "unattached" :)

We are not a model of any kind to the rest of the world, and always am reminded of the quote from the writer in Ireland way back in April when he said......"But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the US until now: pity."

Of course we have even become more of a laugh to the world since then, but the subject of the thread is the virus. I just could not leave an "egg" like that to simply lay there. Please if you quote me, do it in context.

Thank you

[rde3036]

90% of the masks people are wearing are worthless pieces of cloth they do not protect you or the people around you. These are not high quality medical masks.

[stanley]

Sorry, but I will NOT condone a mask mandate. I will entertain suggestions related to the safety of wearing a mask and maybe even go along with the mass hysteria and wear my mask like a good lil citizen. But, I will not agree with a Federal mandate to wear a mask and will not wear one if such a thing happens. Sorry, but I am not a needy lemming that will be lead around by the gov nanny. A CDC suggestion does not warrant a law.
How many of you will start wearing a mask during Flu season? Well if the gov decides that they got away with mandating a mandate for the virus, a flu mandate will be next.
Sorry, but as far as I am concerned you all are a bunch of needy babies that think that just because someone tells you that you will be safer if you wear a mask, wear a helmet, wear a seatbelt, that you NEED a law to make you wear one. Can't you use your own common sense and make your own decisions. Don't put the blame on me if you do not like what other people are doing. Being nosy and feeling the need to interfere with other folks living, is being a pest.
Beware of what you ask the gov to do FOR you. I am not anti government. I just believe in limitations when it comes to power. Once the vaccine is available I will NOT wear a mask again. Until then, I will wear a mask when I think it is necessary. I don't owe any of you anything, especially those on here that disparage this great nation. As far as I am concerned, those that suggest that other countries are laughing at us, do not know what they are speaking of. Until you live half you life in other countries, you do not know enough to even suggest that anyone in other countries would not give up their own families to be able to live here. The only thing they laugh at is the spoiled citizens that complain about how rough they have it here. I did not spend most of my life in service for this country to have a bunch of nobodies put down this great country, so I owe none of you anything. I paid in full, just like many others in my family before me.
You cry about how the gov MUST mandate masks for everyone, but you have no clue as to how it would be enforced. The police aren't going to enforce a mask law. They have way more important things to do than to babysit a bunch of no-loads. Will the mandate stipulate how one must wear the mask? Will it stipulate what an acceptable mask would be? Perhaps eye protection also? How about mandating gloves also? What a bunch of BS .
No one is arguing the fact that wearing a mask can protect to a certain extent. It is not the only thing that can protect. Long sleeved shirts, eye protection, gloves, and just plain staying at home....all protect to a certain extent.
The vaccine will be out shortly and then you won't have anything to complain about. Can't wait for the Flu season to get underway. Wonder how many will wear their masks then. After all, the mask protects...........:1rotfl:

World class post, speaks volumes .............buy that man a beer!

Edited to say that I do have a minor problem with your post..........you said "sorry" twice.............no need to be sorry!

[Advogado]

[QUOTE=T59;1861835]Sweden had no lockdowns, no mask mandate. Number of deaths year to date is lower than previous years.

Think about what you are saying. The 2020 deaths are only through November 6. I.e., there are two more months to go. Sweden's experiment with herd immunity has been a failure. By the end of 2020, Sweden's deaths will far exceed their 2019 number. As the site you link to states: "Sweden was the Nordic country that reported the highest number of COVID-19 deaths in 2020."

[Bill14564]

[QUOTE=T59;1861835]Sweden had no lockdowns, no mask mandate. Number of deaths year to date is lower than previous years.

Think about what you are saying. The 2020 deaths are only through November 6. I.e., there are two more months to go. Sweden's experiment with herd immunity has been a failure. By the end of 2020, Sweden's deaths will far exceed their 2019 number. As the site you link to states: "Sweden was the Nordic country that reported the highest number of COVID-19 deaths in 2020."

That's simply a ridiculous statement.

Look at the numbers. With 77K deaths in 10 months of 2020 that's an average of 7.7K/month. Two months to go would be 15K more deaths for a total of 92K for all of 2020. Slightly (4K) more than 2019. And all that *IF* they meet the 7.7K average for the next two months. Their Covid deaths just hit 40/day the other day which would be 1.2K if that holds.

Yes, Sweden's deaths might slightly exceed 2019 but probably not 2018. To say their 2020 deaths will far exceed 2019, based on these numbers, is just ridiculous.

Sweden does lead the Nordic countries in deaths. If this was planned, Sweden did this in order to keep their economy open and their people free. I wonder how the other Nordic countries are faring in that regard.

[Advogado]

[QUOTE=Advogado;1861885]

That's simply a ridiculous statement.

Look at the numbers. With 77K deaths in 10 months of 2020 that's an average of 7.7K/month. Two months to go would be 15K more deaths for a total of 92K for all of 2020. Slightly (4K) more than 2019. And all that *IF* they meet the 7.7K average for the next two months. Their Covid deaths just hit 40/day the other day which would be 1.2K if that holds.

Yes, Sweden's deaths might slightly exceed 2019 but probably not 2018. To say their 2020 deaths will far exceed 2019, based on these numbers, is just ridiculous.

Sweden does lead the Nordic countries in deaths. If this was planned, Sweden did this in order to keep their economy open and their people free. I wonder how the other Nordic countries are faring in that regard.

You don't take into a account that COVID-19 didn't really hit and Swedes start to die until the spring of 2020. Therefore, your use of the average monthly death rate to project deaths for the rest of the year is, to use your term, "ridiculous".

The fact is that Sweden's herd-immunity approach is generally regarded as a failure, which has given Sweden the highest death rate of any Nordic country. Now, cold weather is setting in and COVID cases are soaring, so, as I stated, your use of the average monthly death rate as a projection is invalid. In fact, Sweden has had to impose extraordinary restrictions, including banning gatherings of more than 8 people. See, e.g.: Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-16/sweden-imposes-unprecedented-covid-restrictions-as-cases-soar)

[Swoop]

[QUOTE=Advogado;1861885]

That's simply a ridiculous statement.

Look at the numbers. With 77K deaths in 10 months of 2020 that's an average of 7.7K/month. Two months to go would be 15K more deaths for a total of 92K for all of 2020. Slightly (4K) more than 2019. And all that *IF* they meet the 7.7K average for the next two months. Their Covid deaths just hit 40/day the other day which would be 1.2K if that holds.

Yes, Sweden's deaths might slightly exceed 2019 but probably not 2018. To say their 2020 deaths will far exceed 2019, based on these numbers, is just ridiculous.

Sweden does lead the Nordic countries in deaths. If this was planned, Sweden did this in order to keep their economy open and their people free. I wonder how the other Nordic countries are faring in that regard.
Sweden’s Covid deaths have continued to be low after their initial spike.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachments/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/86973d1605587760-what-they-thinking-2d84e118-821b-4cb5-902e-3d0560185e7a-jpg

[Advogado]

The number of anti-mask posts on this site illustrate why our County Commission must adopt a mask requirement before our hospitals are overrun and more Floridians unnecessarily die. Thirty-five states and a number of Florida counties have already done this.

[Swoop]

The number of anti-mask posts on this site illustrate why our County Commission must adopt a mask requirement before our hospitals are overrun and more Floridians unnecessarily die. Thirty-five states and a number of Florida counties have already done this.

States with mask mandates are spiking at a higher level than states without mask mandates.

[biker1]

There were 7 new cases in Sumter yesterday. 2.3% of those tested were positive. While cases may be spiking is some areas, Sumter is not currently one of those.

The number of anti-mask posts on this site illustrate why our County Commission must adopt a mask requirement before our hospitals are overrun and more Floridians unnecessarily die. Thirty-five states and a number of Florida counties have already done this.

[Byte1]

They are not listing "new cases" honestly. They are listing test results (all positive test results) as "new cases" because they do not check to see if the testee had tested positive before. If one is tested, then they get tested again until they test negative. You can have one person tested four or five times that is counted as four or five "new cases" which is not being labeled truthfully.
Like someone else said, the only way to get an accurate (if that) reading is to count deaths contributed to the virus. Even then, one can die of something else and be counted "covid related."

[Advogado]

There were 7 new cases in Sumter yesterday. 2.3% of those tested were positive. While cases may be spiking is some areas, Sumter is not currently one of those.
Exactly! To try to keep it under control here, we need a mask mandate. We should not wait until hundreds of people are dying every day to take common-sense measures to prevent needless deaths and a disaster for our local economy.

There is no longer any doubt whatsoever that masks save lives.

[Two Bills]

States with mask mandates are spiking at a higher level than states without mask mandates.

I would say that is why they bring in the mandates.
Just maybe, if people had listened to the advice to wear a mask earlier, instead of looking for any spurious reason not to, mandates would not have been needed.
How hard is it to pop one on when needed?
A little protection is better than none!

[Advogado]

States with mask mandates are spiking at a higher level than states without mask mandates.
th
Your statement is inconsistent with reports that I have seen, but I am always willing to be educated. What is your source? The two states with the highest rates of infection, by far, are the non-masking states of N. and S. Dakota, although N. Dakota just woke up to reality and implemented a mask mandate.

Even if your statistics are true, there is no doubt that masks work to reduce infections. Remember that the non-masking-mandate states (like N. and S. Dakota) tend to be rural, with a scattered population and much less crowding and reliance on mass transit, i.e., inherently lower risk. Furthermore, the non-masking states probably do far less testing than the masking-mandate states.

[Bill14564]

I would say that is why they bring in the mandates.
Just maybe, if people had listened to the advice to wear a mask earlier, instead of looking for any spurious reason not to, mandates would not have been needed.
How hard is it to pop one on when needed?
A little protection is better than none!

?? You want a mandate to the mandate because the original mandate was ineffective?

It could very well be that people were ignoring the mandate. It's hard to imagine since here, even without a mandate, there are a lot of masks being worn. But isn't it also possible that for all that masks *might* help, they are not effective enough? If that's the case then a mask mandate would just give a false sense of security which would lead to people dropping their guard and ultimately to even more infections.

[Two Bills]

?? You want a mandate to the mandate because the original mandate was ineffective?

It could very well be that people were ignoring the mandate. It's hard to imagine since here, even without a mandate, there are a lot of masks being worn. But isn't it also possible that for all that masks *might* help, they are not effective enough? If that's the case then a mask mandate would just give a false sense of security which would lead to people dropping their guard and ultimately to even more infections.

Sorry.
You lost me after the third mandate!

[Byte1]

I would say that is why they bring in the mandates.
Just maybe, if people had listened to the advice to wear a mask earlier, instead of looking for any spurious reason not to, mandates would not have been needed.
How hard is it to pop one on when needed?
A little protection is better than none!

It's because of the side effects that folks do not wish to wear masks for long periods. Do you really want to have your ears stick out and look like this? :1rotfl::1rotfl:

[biker1]

Calm down. I don't think we will see "hundreds of people dying every day" in Sumter County. We have had a total of 89 deaths attributed to the coronavirus to-date. Many establishments are either requiring or requesting masks be worn already. Most people I see inside are wearing a mask already.

Exactly! To try to keep it under control here, we need a mask mandate. We should not wait until hundreds of people are dying every day to take common-sense measures to prevent needless deaths and a disaster for our local economy.

There is no longer any doubt whatsoever that masks save lives.

[Swoop]

th
Your statement is inconsistent with reports that I have seen, but I am always willing to be educated. What is your source? The two states with the highest rates of infection, by far, are the non-masking states of N. and S. Dakota, although N. Dakota just woke up to reality and implemented a mask mandate.

Even if your statistics are true, there is no doubt that masks work to reduce infections. Remember that the non-masking-mandate states (like N. and S. Dakota) tend to be rural, with a scattered population and much less crowding and reliance on mass transit, i.e., inherently lower risk. Furthermore, the non-masking states probably do far less testing than the masking-mandate states.
I posted the chart for Pennsylvania in an earlier response. They are one of the long term mask mandate states. They are spiking way up now. You can go to that site and plug in every state to compare. Mask mandates are ineffective. Either because people don’t comply, or because masks really don’t have an appreciable effect...

[Velvet]

Why is it that when I wear a mask I am called “fearful” but when an astronaut wears a similar mask, he is called “disciplined”?

[Bogie Shooter]

It's because of the side effects that folks do not wish to wear masks for long periods. Do you really want to have your ears stick out and look like this? :1rotfl::1rotfl:

Vanity means nothing when in a box in the ground.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

States with mask mandates are spiking at a higher level than states without mask mandates.

That could be really useful information. Source please.

[Villageswimmer]

So explain why states that have mandatory mask mandates are spiking at a rates equal to or higher than states without mandatory mask requirements? Look at the states & look at the number of positive cases. Then based on those numbers, justify why “we need immediate county action on a mask mandate”.

I think the reason may be that the mask mandates came a little too late. The proverbial horse was out of the barn.

[coffeebean]

They are not listing "new cases" honestly. They are listing test results (all positive test results) as "new cases" because they do not check to see if the testee had tested positive before. If one is tested, then they get tested again until they test negative. You can have one person tested four or five times that is counted as four or five "new cases" which is not being labeled truthfully.
Like someone else said, the only way to get an accurate (if that) reading is to count deaths contributed to the virus. Even then, one can die of something else and be counted "covid related."
I don't pay attention to any of the numbers or statistics. What I pay attention to is if the hospitals are over whelmed, if the health care providers are exhausted and the staff just can not keep up with the patient demands. I also pay attention to how many satellite hospital beds are being set up, especially for large cities. I pay attention to refrigerated trucks in use to store the dead bodies because morgues are at max.

[coffeebean]

I posted the chart for Pennsylvania in an earlier response. They are one of the long term mask mandate states. They are spiking way up now. You can go to that site and plug in every state to compare. Mask mandates are ineffective. Either because people don’t comply, or because masks really don’t have an appreciable effect...

Masks most certainly would be more effective if everyone wore their mask correctly. A mask worn below the nose is like not wearing a mask at all. Think about this......when you are tested with a long swab, it is your naso pharynx that is swabbed. That is the swab up the nose. So......why wear a mask with the nose exposed? Oh....to breath better? That is no excuse. Sorry.

Wearing a mask below the chin is absolutely useless but yet, I see people in public indoor spaces wearing their mask below their chin. Just silly. Take the damn thing off if that is how you wear it.

[Malsua]

Masks most certainly would be more effective if everyone wore their mask correctly. A mask worn below the nose is like not wearing a mask at all. Think about this......when you are tested with a long swab, it is your naso pharynx that is swabbed. That is the swab up the nose. So......why wear a mask with the nose exposed? Oh....to breath better? That is no excuse. Sorry.

Wearing a mask below the chin is absolutely useless but yet, I see people in public indoor spaces wearing their mask below their chin. Just silly. Take the damn thing off if that is how you wear it.

Actually, the predominant source of viral particles coming from a human, comes out of the mouth during normal breathing. The primary source of infection is through the nose. If a person sneezes, it comes out both. Standard breathing however, more virus is ejected via the mouth.

In other words, those people with the chin strap mask are somewhat protecting you, but are not protecting themselves at all.

What a mask does is reduce your inoculum (Your dose). You will still be exposed to virus, but to a smaller quantity at any one time. This allows your body to build a response before it is overwhelmed and you have a better chances of a good outcomes.

Distance is truly the only way to be sure you are not exposed. Anyone that is compromised must avoid exposure and only wear an N95 or better(full face respirator) in any setting with other people of unknown infection status.

Masks, at least those commonly available to normies, are something, but they aren't much. Suggesting that universal masking would halt the pandemic simply isn't the case. They do help improve the number of minor or asymptomatic cases though.

[Byte1]

I don't pay attention to any of the numbers or statistics. What I pay attention to is if the hospitals are over whelmed, if the health care providers are exhausted and the staff just can not keep up with the patient demands. I also pay attention to how many satellite hospital beds are being set up, especially for large cities. I pay attention to refrigerated trucks in use to store the dead bodies because morgues are at max.

I think I saw that movie on the SyFy channel. Things are pretty peaceful around here and the hospital is not overwhelmed by the infected.
I have no problem with wearing a mask when appropriate, BUT I will not be mandated by law to wear one. Once you allow them that much power then they can force anything on you. It's not an exaggeration. Just look at other countries that have allowed the gov TOO much power. It ain't pretty.

[davefin]

Don't like it, then stay away! Like it, then party on!

[RonaldJ]

A mask does not do much to protect you. It protects others from you. If there is not a mask mandate in the squares you are crazy to go there or an avid gambler, but this may be with your life.

[dzine]

So, entertainment at the town squares were closed when the pandemic was under much better control than it currently is. Fast forward, the pandemic numbers have never been worse, and a massive influx of potential Covid spreaders are migrating south. Then the seasonal influx of high risk children and grandchildren visitors will follow. People from all over the country will be flying to Florida and converging on the 55 plus community that has been relatively safe during the slow season, where the older and more vulnerable full time residents generally take appropriate precautions. Despite this, starting next week the town squares will go back to business as usual, like the pandemic doesn’t even exist, WTF?

Could there possibly be a worse time to decide to open everything back up? I get that the powers that be need to sell all the houses they are cranking out, and it’s hard to sell houses without being able to showcase the Villages experience. But this could backfire in a big way if the Villages Covid numbers spike, which they most likely will. Not only that, but all the new houses they are trying to sell will have to compete with all the new pre-owned homes that will go on the market vacated by unfortunate Covid victims.

OK, all the Covid deniers, let me have it, I can deal with it.

I agree totally. But it's all about the money and real estate sales. Otherwise why would they risk an epidemic of covid here, which would make national news after all the times Villages was shown during the rallies and golf cart parades. Terrible chance to take and could take it's toll, along with our home values.

[EdFNJ]

So explain why states that have mandatory mask mandates are spiking at a rates equal to or higher than states without mandatory mask requirements? Look at the states & look at the number of positive cases. Then based on those numbers, justify why “we need immediate county action on a mask mandate”. Possibly because most all the mandates were put into effect AFTER the states in question were taken over by the recent spikes not before ??

[EdFNJ]

So, entertainment at the town squares were closed when the pandemic was under much better control than it currently is. Fast forward, the pandemic numbers have never been worse, and a massive influx of potential Covid spreaders are migrating south.

Could there possibly be a worse time to decide to open everything back up?

LOL, getting back to the ORIGINAL POST in this thread it turns out everything was not fully opened up in the squares. The squares are still under the same limits as they have been except no tickets are needed any longer. They are counting people and when it reaches the same max number as it was with tickets sold they close down entry. First come first served.

Only change was no ticketing which was useless anyway because they let people in after 6PM and sometimes at 5PM without tickets since day 3 when they realized the ticket idea was a fail.

[Swoop]

Possibly because most all the mandates were put into effect AFTER the states in question were taken over by the recent spikes not before ??
Sorry, simply not true. Look it up.

[Malsua]

Sorry, simply not true. Look it up.

Yeah, NY, NJ and CT have had a mask mandate in place since June/July. I also know that my company in NJ and most companies started requiring them in April. You can't go inside anywhere without one. As I said up thread. Masks do not prevent infection for the wearer. The Danish clinical study out yesterday supports this. Denmark trial measures effectiveness of adding a mask recommendation to other public health measures for preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection (https://www.rigshospitalet.dk/english/news-and-media/news/Pages/2020/november/denmark-trial-measures-effectiveness-of-adding-a-mask-recommendation-to-other-public-health-measures-for-preventing-SARS-Co.aspx)

The study was silent on whether it protects others and how masks affect disease severity. We know from animal studies that the initial dose(Inoculum) of a virus does change the LD50(Lethal dose in 50% of exposed). We know that masks do reduce inoculum. It stands to reason that you have a better chance of a better case when you are wearing a mask.

At this point, there have been enough studies done on Vitamin D to show that if you have a healthy serum level of D in your system, your odds improve DRASTICALLY! Your chance of not dying improve 89%!(see link below) I'd rather see a Vitamin D mandate than a mask mandate.

Vitamin D and survival in COVID-19 patients: A quasi-experimental study - ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096007602030296X#fig0010)

--->The full-adjusted hazard ratio for mortality according to vitamin D3 supplementation was HR = 0.11[95 %CI:0.03;0.48], P = 0.003.<---

HR = Hazard Ratio, I.E. an 89% improvement. A 1.0 would mean zero risk reduction.

[EdFNJ]

Possibly because most all the mandates were put into effect AFTER the states in question were taken over by the recent spikes not before ??

Sorry, simply not true. Look it up. I am referring to the states that are being clobbered **NOW** with geometrically increasing cases and overloaded facilities with super high positivity who refused before not states who have "spiked" to a relatively small 3-5%. Like Iowa, N Dakota, Louisiana and a couple others. Of course then there are those states where the Gov actually PROHIBITS mask mandates or refuses to allow local counties to enforce them like the one and only Ronnie D.

People are now saying "See, in Iowa (or N Dakota etc) they have a mask mandate and it doesn't help." Well of course not because the doofus governess implemented it after the damage has been done. It's too late, you can't bring back dead people.

[Gulfcoast]

I am referring to the states that are being clobbered **NOW** with geometrically increasing cases and overloaded facilities with super high positivity who refused before not states who have "spiked" to a relatively small 3-5%. Like Iowa, N Dakota, Louisiana and a couple others. Of course then there are those states where the Gov actually PROHIBITS mask mandates or refuses to allow local counties to enforce them like the one and only Ronnie D.

People are now saying "See, in Iowa (or N Dakota etc) they have a mask mandate and it doesn't help." Well of course not because the doofus governess implemented it after the damage has been done. It's too late, you can't bring back dead people.

The CDC just reversed themselves and are now saying that schools should not be closed. That's right - children should be IN class AT their schools.

I'm glad to live in Florida where parents have the choice of keeping their kids at home or sending their kids to school.

[Kilmacowen]

The CDC just reversed themselves and are now saying that schools should not be closed. That's right - children should be IN class AT their schools.

I'm glad to live in Florida where parents have the choice of keeping their kids at home or sending their kids to school.

So, I guess you're okay with people being near your mother without a mask.

[Gulfcoast]

So, I guess you're okay with people being near your mother without a mask.

No, my mom has been taking prudent precautions. We wear masks around her when we can't keep a proper social distance. We celebrated Mother's Day outside and will celebrate Thanksgiving around our large dining room table with the windows open.

I've also helped her by running errands or taking her to stores at less busy times.

Nobody had to order me to do those things, either.

[Carla B]

We had to go to the hospital but not for a reason related to Covid. After my husband was "admitted" to be an in-patient we spent five hours in the ER waiting for a room to open up. When I talked to the ER nurse about the long and uncomfortable wait, she explained that the hospitals are overwhelmed and short-staffed. Many nurses have quit. The long hours and extra demand put on them is "just not worth it."

If some people's selfish behavior causes them to get COVID and thus put extra demand on the medical workers, then shame-on them and their bad behavior.

[Gulfcoast]

We had to go to the hospital but not for a reason related to Covid. After my husband was "admitted" to be an in-patient we spent five hours in the ER waiting for a room to open up. When I talked to the ER nurse about the long and uncomfortable wait, she explained that the hospitals are overwhelmed and short-staffed. Many nurses have quit. The long hours and extra demand put on them is "just not worth it."

If some people's selfish behavior causes them to get COVID and thus put extra demand on the medical workers, then shame-on them and their bad behavior.

I think that all of the added Covid protocols and onerous paperwork have had something to do with why hospitals are becoming short staffed.

[coffeebean]

I think that all of the added Covid protocols and onerous paperwork have had something to do with why hospitals are becoming short staffed.

Protocols? Paper work? I doubt that is what is causing health care workers to quit their jobs. Think about it.

[Byte1]

We had to go to the hospital but not for a reason related to Covid. After my husband was "admitted" to be an in-patient we spent five hours in the ER waiting for a room to open up. When I talked to the ER nurse about the long and uncomfortable wait, she explained that the hospitals are overwhelmed and short-staffed. Many nurses have quit. The long hours and extra demand put on them is "just not worth it."

If some people's selfish behavior causes them to get COVID and thus put extra demand on the medical workers, then shame-on them and their bad behavior.

Obviously, you are not speaking of The Villages hospital. Plenty of rooms, but there is always a wait in the ER for a room. It's famous for long ER waits. Of course, like everything, there are always exceptions to the norm.
Most folks with the virus are sent home. Only the ones with breathing problems are kept. I see no reason for spreading panic. After all, the vaccine will start being distributed next month or the following month. Still, most folks get over it anyway.

[Swoop]

I am referring to the states that are being clobbered **NOW** with geometrically increasing cases and overloaded facilities with super high positivity who refused before not states who have "spiked" to a relatively small 3-5%. Like Iowa, N Dakota, Louisiana and a couple others. Of course then there are those states where the Gov actually PROHIBITS mask mandates or refuses to allow local counties to enforce them like the one and only Ronnie D.

People are now saying "See, in Iowa (or N Dakota etc) they have a mask mandate and it doesn't help." Well of course not because the doofus governess implemented it after the damage has been done. It's too late, you can't bring back dead people.
Are you referring to states like Pennsylvania who have had long standing mask mandates? They are really spiking. But wait, that can’t be possible...

[Dana1963]

So, entertainment at the town squares were closed when the pandemic was under much better control than it currently is. Fast forward, the pandemic numbers have never been worse, and a massive influx of potential Covid spreaders are migrating south. Then the seasonal influx of high risk children and grandchildren visitors will follow. People from all over the country will be flying to Florida and converging on the 55 plus community that has been relatively safe during the slow season, where the older and more vulnerable full time residents generally take appropriate precautions. Despite this, starting next week the town squares will go back to business as usual, like the pandemic doesn’t even exist, WTF?

Could there possibly be a worse time to decide to open everything back up? I get that the powers that be need to sell all the houses they are cranking out, and it’s hard to sell houses without being able to showcase the Villages experience. But this could backfire in a big way if the Villages Covid numbers spike, which they most likely will. Not only that, but all the new houses they are trying to sell will have to compete with all the new pre-owned homes that will go on the market vacated by unfortunate Covid victims.

OK, all the Covid deniers, let me have it, I can deal with it.
I just checked the webs cams Brownwood about 30 people line dancing Sumter landing very few. Spanish springs sunset blocking camera but then it's only 5:15

[Kilmacowen]

No, my mom has been taking prudent precautions. We wear masks around her when we can't keep a proper social distance. We celebrated Mother's Day outside and will celebrate Thanksgiving around our large dining room table with the windows open.

I've also helped her by running errands or taking her to stores at less busy times.

Nobody had to order me to do those things, either.

I was not referring to you. Other people , strangers like you that don't wear a mask and don't care about their fellow man only their "rights".

[Gulfcoast]

I was not referring to you. Other people , strangers like you that don't wear a mask and don't care about their fellow man only their "rights".

Right. My mom doesn't go to the crowded venues that my kids do (school, work, stadiums, fairs, etc). She doesn't go to the bars and entertainment venues that my husband and I do so she isn't really ever in a situation to be around non mask wearers and the like. She generally hangs around people who are very careful about mask wearing and who are careful about social distancing. She wouldn't go into a preschool classroom, for example, and read to a bunch of kids even though she LOVES children to pieces.

If there is someone in the grocery store not wearing a mask, she doesn't hang around them. We would never go around her if we were symptomatic. We've all stayed healthy.

[Dayeight99]

Relax

[Pairadocs]

So, entertainment at the town squares were closed when the pandemic was under much better control than it currently is. Fast forward, the pandemic numbers have never been worse, and a massive influx of potential Covid spreaders are migrating south. Then the seasonal influx of high risk children and grandchildren visitors will follow. People from all over the country will be flying to Florida and converging on the 55 plus community that has been relatively safe during the slow season, where the older and more vulnerable full time residents generally take appropriate precautions. Despite this, starting next week the town squares will go back to business as usual, like the pandemic doesn’t even exist, WTF?

Could there possibly be a worse time to decide to open everything back up? I get that the powers that be need to sell all the houses they are cranking out, and it’s hard to sell houses without being able to showcase the Villages experience. But this could backfire in a big way if the Villages Covid numbers spike, which they most likely will. Not only that, but all the new houses they are trying to sell will have to compete with all the new pre-owned homes that will go on the market vacated by unfortunate Covid victims.

OK, all the Covid deniers, let me have it, I can deal with it.

Don't want to let anyone "have it", AND I MAY WELL BE WRONG....but since when were children deemed "High Risk" ???? Everything I have read, seen, and heard is the exact opposite ! Also, we'll argue this forever, but do you, or anyone, feel threatened sitting outside listening to music and having some measure of "normality" to your life ? I doubt (but again .... I would not know, just a "gut" feeling) those "vulnerable" residents you mention (which would be those in sheltered care residences, nursing homes, etc. all over the Villages) probably will not be the ones going to the squares anyway, they KNOW their risk and that is why the probably moved to a more secure living arrangement to begin with. I just don't believe it is dangerous to have some music and normality to life, but I am NOT an "denier", but some of the things assumed on here just make no scientific sense at all: "clouds" of concentrated virus that "hang" in the air waiting to infect people, as one person mentioned ! Air is 5 gasses (I believe that is still true ?), quite a magic trick to get those 5 to stay stationary and lay in wait for victims ? Someone on here has a tag line about trying to understand some people is like trying to SMELL a color or a number.... THAT is right on ! The "logic" some apply is truly baffling !
Again, not giving you an argument, but do you seriously think the dying from Covid is really going to go to such horrifying levels that there will be that there are going to be nothing of vacant homes on the market ? And, WHERE could those fleeing GO to be "safe ? This is like the middle ages I guess ? I am probably the one who is naive !

[Pairadocs]

The CDC just reversed themselves and are now saying that schools should not be closed. That's right - children should be IN class AT their schools.

I'm glad to live in Florida where parents have the choice of keeping their kids at home or sending their kids to school.

A big "amen" to that. I don't think people have any idea of the psychological damage we've done to an entire generation by doing this to children for nearly a year now.

[Bay Kid]

Our VA govern told us to only have family Thanksgiving outside in small numbers??? All this while he heads to NC for his big family vacation.

Let's keep everyone in fear and then we can control them.

[tophcfa]

Well, this was predictable. Last week the town squares were opened up, and the on-line new source just reported a massive spike in Covid cases throughout the Villages. This is a really bad time to be opening everything back up! Stay tuned.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Well, this was predictable. Last week the town squares were opened up, and the on-line new source just reported a massive spike in Covid cases throughout the Villages. This is a really bad time to be opening everything back up! Stay tuned.

I don't think it's the timing that's the problem. I think it's the methodology that's the problem.

Anyone "at risk" should still wear a mask whenever they congregate in close proximity to each other outside, or any time they're in a building open to the public (except while they're eating of course).

There still should be social distancing, or at the absolute least - anyone who appears to be trying to social distance, should be given the courtesy of being allowed to do so. If someone keeps backing away from you, or skirting to the side when you're behind them in line, acknowledge that they want to keep their distance from you, and honor it.

It doesn't even need to be 6 feet. But I was in line today to return something and the woman behind me was less than 2 feet away and NOT wearing a mask. I kept trying to step a little to one side, and she came in right behind me again. I tried inching a step closer to the person in front of me, and she was right there behind me, inching just as close. There was no one behind her, so no reason she should've felt the need to crowd me.

It's as though people have forgotten to simply respect each others' space - something we used to do naturally, before COVID-19 existed.

[coffeebean]

I don't think it's the timing that's the problem. I think it's the methodology that's the problem.

Anyone "at risk" should still wear a mask whenever they congregate in close proximity to each other outside, or any time they're in a building open to the public (except while they're eating of course).

There still should be social distancing, or at the absolute least - anyone who appears to be trying to social distance, should be given the courtesy of being allowed to do so. If someone keeps backing away from you, or skirting to the side when you're behind them in line, acknowledge that they want to keep their distance from you, and honor it.

It doesn't even need to be 6 feet. But I was in line today to return something and the woman behind me was less than 2 feet away and NOT wearing a mask. I kept trying to step a little to one side, and she came in right behind me again. I tried inching a step closer to the person in front of me, and she was right there behind me, inching just as close. There was no one behind her, so no reason she should've felt the need to crowd me.

It's as though people have forgotten to simply respect each others' space - something we used to do naturally, before COVID-19 existed.

Why didn't you just ask her to step back? I certainly would have. In fact, I have asked people to give me space as they encroach close to me. I always use the word "please". No harm in that.

[dewilson58]

Why didn't you just ask her to step back? I certainly would have. In fact, I have asked people to give me space as they encroach close to me. I always use the word "please". No harm in that.
Agree.........must speak up to the clueless.

[graciegirl]

A big "amen" to that. I don't think people have any idea of the psychological damage we've done to an entire generation by doing this to children for nearly a year now.

I was just thinking how good it has been for children to be WITH their parents for eight months in a way that many of us grew up instead of being hauled around to games and programs and to be cared for as infants by people our parents wouldn't lend their car keys to.

It strongly appears that children are not as much at risk from Covid-19. We have read about teachers dying from it.

I am going to change the subject. There have been few posts about how happy folks are that two vaccines that are above 90% effective will be available to us older people and medical people soon.

I wonder why. AND....On the issue of psychological damage. I wonder what has happened that we are not talking about the light at the end of the tunnel?