Golf Question, Executive versus Championship

[tophcfa]

I am confused and have a question. My understanding is that the Championship courses are owned and operated by the developer. The are a for profit operation and are supported by the green fees. The executive courses are owned and operated by the Villages Community Development District. They are not for profit and are supported by amenity fees and trail fees. Both the executives and championships are clearly described as separate operations, with separate owners and profit motivations.

Here is where I am confused. How is it that if they are truly totally separate operations, the Priority Membership fee gets the member benefits for each separate operation? For those who are unaware, the priority membership gives the member priority t times and discounts at the Championships, but it also covers the members trail fees at the Executives. Are they really separate operations, or is that just lip service? Inquiring minds want to know?

[CWGUY]

:confused: I would think if inquiring minds really wanted to know, they would not be asking on this site. Maybe ask someone at the District Government or The Villages Golf Management. It must suck to be stuck up north in Mass. But if it makes you feel any better...... it's getting COLD here tonight. :) Thurs. and Fri. back in the 70's. I remember playing golf in the snow not to far from you I think. Over in Schodack, N.Y. there was a public course that never closed. Seems like 100 years ago. Don't even know if it's still there. :ho:

VCDD Golf (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/golf/golf.aspx)

Golf And Country Club Administration 352-753-3396

[tophcfa]

:confused: I would think if inquiring minds really wanted to know, they would not be asking on this site. Maybe ask someone at the District Government or The Villages Golf Management. It must suck to be stuck up north in Mass. But if it makes you feel any better...... it's getting COLD here tonight. :) Thurs. and Fri. back in the 70's. I remember playing golf in the snow not to far from you I think. Over in Schodack, N.Y. there was a public course that never closed. Seems like 100 years ago. Don't even know if it's still there. :ho:

VCDD Golf (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/golf/golf.aspx)

Golf And Country Club Administration 352-753-3396

Hmmm, the website you posted for me to look at for answers is exactly where I got the information that raised my question. I don't want to be like a dog chasing my tail, or get into a circular argument with no solution. The VCDD website is what it is, it raises more questions than it answers. That is why I posted the thread, to see if anyone had an answer. That is why many people like TOTV, because there are people out there who enjoy helping out others looking for answers. Whenever I can, I try to help out others when I have an answer to their inquiry. And no, I do not take any pleasure in the fact that some Villagers are not enjoying that it got very cold there tonight.

[mulligan]

Hmmm, the website you posted for me to look at for answers is exactly where I got the information that raised my question. I don't want to be like a dog chasing my tail, or get into a circular argument with no solution. The VCDD website is what it is, it raises more questions than it answers. That is why I posted the thread, to see if anyone had an answer. That is why many people like TOTV, because there are people out there who enjoy helping out others looking for answers. Whenever I can, I try to help out others when I have an answer to their inquiry. And no, I do not take any pleasure in the fact that some Villagers are not enjoying that it got very cold there tonight.

What I learned after working as an ambassador : The OP is mostly correct. Each champ course is tasked with management of turf maintenance contracts and staffing of from 2 to 5 exec courses which are owned by the district. Money at exec's is turned in to the district daily, while the champs turn their's in to the developer through their management office. Spreads the exec management out to 13 different facility managers which makes it a slightly less daunting task.

[Marathon Man]

Could it be that they include the trail fee as part of the Priority Membership cost? Then they pay the trail fee for you? That would make it transparent to you, but it is actually still seperate.

[tophcfa]

Could it be that they include the trail fee as part of the Priority Membership cost? Then they pay the trail fee for you? That would make it transparent to you, but it is actually still seperate.

That is the first thing that I thought of, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would they bundle the two separate fees in one direction, but not the other. Any resident can pay an unbundled trail fee without becoming a priority member. But you can't become a priority member without bundling it together with paying a trail fee for the executives? If the two operations are really under separate management, why don't residents have the option of either paying for one or the other, or both separately? It doesn't make any sense to me, perhaps I am missing something?

[ctmurray]

I am confused and have a question. My understanding is that the Championship courses are owned and operated by the developer. The are a for profit operation and are supported by the green fees. The executive courses are owned and operated by the Villages Community Development District. They are not for profit and are supported by amenity fees and trail fees. Both the executives and championships are clearly described as separate operations, with separate owners and profit motivations.

Here is where I am confused. How is it that if they are truly totally separate operations, the Priority Membership fee gets the member benefits for each separate operation? For those who are unaware, the priority membership gives the member priority t times and discounts at the Championships, but it also covers the members trail fees at the Executives. Are they really separate operations, or is that just lip service? Inquiring minds want to know?

I look at the inclusion of the trail fees with Priority as an incentive for you to sign up for Priority. There are lots of cross company incentives, I get a discount for service/vendor X for signing up for service/vendor Y. Think of wireless or streaming TV for examples. Here is is the VCCD and the Developer having such an agreement. It makes the Priority Fee seem less as it includes this known cost.

[JoMar]

What you don't see is the underlying agreements between the Developer and the District. There are many corporations that have underlying agreements, for usage, for product, for billing services, for maintenance etc. What you don't see is how they allocate revenue and to which underlying companies. In today's world very little ownership is black and white.

[Aw Man]

I look at the inclusion of the trail fees with Priority as an incentive for you to sign up for Priority. There are lots of cross company incentives, I get a discount for service/vendor X for signing up for service/vendor Y. Think of wireless or streaming TV for examples. Here is is the VCCD and the Developer having such an agreement. It makes the Priority Fee seem less as it includes this known cost.

I agree, including the trail fee cost is a built in incentive or perk in signing up for Priority membership
Additional incentive or perk is if I own a Single Priority membership and my wife is not Priority because she just wants to play Executive courses, she actually gets a discount on her annual trail fee cost because I’m a Priority member. Her annual trail fee cost is $109 vs $141.

[tophcfa]

chilout

G o l f A n d C o u n t r y C l u b A d m i n i s t r a t i o n 3 5 2 -7 5 3 - 3 3 9 6 I typed it slower..... have you called them yet?


:ohdear: Sorry, that was sarcastic.


"The VCDD website is what it is, it raises more questions than it answers." That is your opinion. IMHO there is a great deal of information and answers on the site...... at least it always lists the phone numbers or email addresses of the people who can help you.

"I try to help out others when I have an answer to their inquiry." That's nice of you...... you can continue to answer inquires, right or wrong and I'll continue to post links with information and phone numbers. I don't feel I know all the answers...... just where to find most of them.

Stay safe. Stay warm. Have a good day. :ho:

Yes, I called them. I spoke to a very nice woman who verified everything I have already posted. However, she had absolutely no explanation as to why things work the way they do. She kept repeating she does not make the policies, she only explains what they are. She told me to send an e-mail with my questions which I did. You guessed it, no response. I was hoping someone on TOTV might have some insight?

[tophcfa]

I agree, including the trail fee cost is a built in incentive or perk in signing up for Priority membership

I don’t understand the logic in that statement. Just to make the math simple let’s assume priority costs $10, with $8 going toward preferred t times and discounts on the Championships, and $2 covers the executive trail fees. How does charging $10 for both give an incentive over buying the two services separately? For some it is a disincentive because they are only interested in the $8 service and don’t want to pay for a separate service they don’t plan to use?

[JSR22]

Included with Priority Golf is a Priority Pool Membership. We have a pool. I asked if I could subtract the pool cost and the answer was no.

[Aw Man]

I don’t understand the logic in that statement. Just to make the math simple let’s assume priority costs $10, with $8 going toward preferred t times and discounts on the Championships, and $2 covers the executive trail fees. How does charging $10 for both give an incentive over buying the two services separately? For some it is a disincentive because they are only interested in the $8 service and don’t want to pay for a separate service they don’t plan to use?

OK, you are correct, unless you know the cost of the separate services and have the ability to buy one or the other, it’s impossible to determine if there’s a real financial incentive to buy the combined services.

Also, it’s obvious there can not be a real or perceived incentive unless a person plays golf quite often on both Championship and Executive golf courses.

My example:
Given an annual “All Clubs” Single Priority golf membership cost of $740, I would have to play on:

- Executive courses 36 times in a year to break even on the $140 annual trail fee cost.

- Championship courses 75 times in a year for $8 per green fee savings to match the remaining $600 of the Priority membership cost.

In my case, playing 200 rounds per year, 100 on Champ and 100 on Exec courses, having both services bundled saves me about $200/year in total greens fees plus my wife saves $36/year on her Trail Fee cost.
All that, for me, is at least a perceived, if not real, incentive to keep the Priority membership with the bundled services.

[DrBrutyle109]

I’d be more concerned about the escalating green fees every year

[Jazzcat]

:confused: I would think if inquiring minds really wanted to know, they would not be asking on this site. Maybe ask someone at the District Government or The Villages Golf Management. It must suck to be stuck up north in Mass. But if it makes you feel any better...... it's getting COLD here tonight. :) Thurs. and Fri. back in the 70's. I remember playing golf in the snow not to far from you I think. Over in Schodack, N.Y. there was a public course that never closed. Seems like 100 years ago. Don't even know if it's still there. :ho:

VCDD Golf (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/golf/golf.aspx)

Golf And Country Club Administration 352-753-3396

Golf course in Schodack NY? You must be referring to Evergreen Country Club, which we affectionately dubbed as “Nevergreen”! 😀

[Neils]

That is the first thing that I thought of, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would they bundle the two separate fees in one direction, but not the other. Any resident can pay an unbundled trail fee without becoming a priority member. But you can't become a priority member without bundling it together with paying a trail fee for the executives? If the two operations are really under separate management, why don't residents have the option of either paying for one or the other, or both separately? It doesn't make any sense to me, perhaps I am missing something?

Very good question. Many fees in TV are set up to feed the “machine” behind the curtain

[Marathon Man]

That is the first thing that I thought of, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would they bundle the two separate fees in one direction, but not the other. Any resident can pay an unbundled trail fee without becoming a priority member. But you can't become a priority member without bundling it together with paying a trail fee for the executives? If the two operations are really under separate management, why don't residents have the option of either paying for one or the other, or both separately? It doesn't make any sense to me, perhaps I am missing something?

In other words, "I only play champ courses. Why do I need to pay trail fees?". I would wonder the same thing.

[cgalloway6]

The trail fee is per household, not per person. Why would your wife need to pay for trail fees if it is included in your priority membership?

[JSR22]

The trail fee is per household, not per person. Why would your wife need to pay for trail fees if it is included in your priority membership?

This is another issue with priority membership. If my husband was not priority it would be $140 for the 2 of us. Trail fees on the priority do not include a spouse. We have to pay an extra $109 for me and are required to pay for priority pool membership and we have our own pool.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I am confused and have a question. My understanding is that the Championship courses are owned and operated by the developer. The are a for profit operation and are supported by the green fees. The executive courses are owned and operated by the Villages Community Development District. They are not for profit and are supported by amenity fees and trail fees. Both the executives and championships are clearly described as separate operations, with separate owners and profit motivations.

Here is where I am confused. How is it that if they are truly totally separate operations, the Priority Membership fee gets the member benefits for each separate operation? For those who are unaware, the priority membership gives the member priority t times and discounts at the Championships, but it also covers the members trail fees at the Executives. Are they really separate operations, or is that just lip service? Inquiring minds want to know?

I don't know how the business side works but they do overlap. The maintenance crews for the championship courses are also responsible for executive courses in their area. For example, the maintenance crew at Lopez also maintains Amberwood, Oakleigh, Briarwood and Walnut Grove.

[tonycirocco@me.com]

I would think if inquiring minds really wanted to know, they would not be asking on this site. Maybe ask someone at the District Government or The Villages Golf Management. It must suck to be stuck up north in Mass. But if it makes you feel any better...... it's getting COLD here tonight. :) Thurs. and Fri. back in the 70's. I remember playing golf in the snow not to far from you I think. Over in Schodack, N.Y. there was a public course that never closed. Seems like 100 years ago. Don't even know if it's still there. :ho:

VCDD Golf (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/golf/golf.aspx)

Why are you so mean? Some people just go thru these threads and that's it.


Golf And Country Club Administration 352-753-3396[/QUOTE]

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I don’t understand the logic in that statement. Just to make the math simple let’s assume priority costs $10, with $8 going toward preferred t times and discounts on the Championships, and $2 covers the executive trail fees. How does charging $10 for both give an incentive over buying the two services separately? For some it is a disincentive because they are only interested in the $8 service and don’t want to pay for a separate service they don’t plan to use?

Sound like the fact that I have to pay for a bunch of cable channels that I never watch.

[Guitarman1951]

I pay annual priority fees every year and I dislike the fact that I have to pay $144 in those fees for executive courses. I rarely play the executive courses and would much rather pay for that separately.

[stan the man]

All the posts to the OP sound like sheep or empty suits. just keep following the Judas goat. Do not question the king and his court