Begging at intersections

[beartrack]

About a year ago I noticed one young, very unkept young man, begging for money at the intersection of Rt 41 and Rt 42. I may be a bad person but, I do not believe that folks should be allowed to beg in the middle of a very dangerous intersection. While my heart goes out to those in need, I do not think that the middle of the street walking from car to car with traffic whizzing by is the safest envirement for those people. There are churches and synagogues all around that offer help. Now there are six to eight people at a time covering all four corners. I've seen them drive up in cars and park at the gas station. I've also seen them get out of a van. They are also out in the street in front of Walmart and also Home depot. This situation in my opinion is getting out of hand and someone is going to get hurt. What I would like to know is, is it legal for these folks to do this? If it is legal, I still believe that it is dangerous and law enforcement should at least check these people out, to see if their situation is legit or a scam.

[pooh]

A number of years ago, a television station in San Diego did a piece on "beggars" at intersections. We were living on the west coast at the time. Seems there was a group of individuals, working a particular area. There were assigned times for begging for each person, they were driven to their "work" area. Apparently there was enough money being made for these people to continue.

It is dangerous to be working in high traffic areas. How do we know these people are truly in need of help? We don't. Notice if it's the same person in one spot. Notice if they're wearing the same clothes each day, notice if they're shaved and washed. Often times, it's as you've observed, individuals being driven to an area to try and get funds from sympathetic drivers. Is it legal? I don't know. Is it dangerous? Without a doubt, for those asking for funds and for those who might stop, disrupting the flow of traffic.

[pqrstar]

In Marion County, FL, in Aug. 2008, a homeless man was awarded $10,000 in damages because the county panhandling ordinance violated his right of free speech.

"Booher v. Marion County, No. 5:07-CV-282-Oc-10GRT (M.D. Fla. filed July 11, 2007).
David Booher, a homeless individual living in Marion County, has sued the county challenging the constitutionality of a county ordinance adopted in May 2006, which requires all persons who solicit, beg or panhandle in public places without obtaining a "panhandler's license."[8] In order to obtain such a license, an individual must pay a $100 application fee, pass a background check regarding panhandling violations and types of felonies or misdemeanors and complete an application (which includes a requirement that a permanent home address and description of the location and timing of solicitation activity be provided). Further, in deciding whether to grant the license, the county administrator must find that "the location and time of the [panhandling] activity will not substantially interfere with the safe and orderly movement of traffic."[9]

Following the adoption of the ordinance, plaintiff Booher was repeatedly arrested, fined and sentenced to jail in violation of the ordinance. In response, Booher filed suit against the county seeking compensatory damages and to enjoin the enforcement of the ordinance, based on claims that the ordinance violates his right to free speech, due process and equal protection. In September 2007, the court granted Booher's motion for a preliminary injunction prohibiting the county from enforcing the ordinance during the pendency of the action. In granting the injunction, the court found that there is a substantial likelihood that the ordinance is an unlawful prior restraint on speech, is a content based restriction on speech, violates the Equal Protection Clause by impermissibly distinguishing between who can and cannot engage in charitable solicitation and is overbroad and void for vagueness by failing to sufficiently define prohibited conduct and providing the county administrator with excess discretion.

After Booher had filed a motion for partial summary judgment and a permanent
injunction, the county repealed the ordinance. In August 2008, the parties submitted a settlement agreement. The county agreed not to reenact the challenged version of the ordinance and to pay Booher $10,000 for settlement of his damages claims. Defendants agreed that Booher was the prevailing party in the action and to pay reasonable litigation costs and attorneys’ fees."

[Ooper]

Where is Rt. 41 and Rt. 42? Do you mean Rt. 441 and 42?

[Taltarzac]

I saw about 7 people panhandling near the WalMart on US 441/27 a few days ago. There were a couple on the median in the middle of the highway targeting drivers turning into the CVS or other stores across from the WalMart. Then there were 4 or so near the CVS getting people crossing to Walmart or waiting to turn south. The last was a 25 to 35 year old looking woman in shorts near the Sonic.


Believe it is illegal for minors to panhandle. I have never seen one anywhere in Florida nor in CA.

[tony]

I ran across a guy on an interstate ramp not far from my house with a sign that said:

"Please HELP!!!
Homeless and Stranded."

When he got to my car I asked how he could be stranded if he were homeless.

I took that ramp every day, and he was there for about ten more days, but he never stopped at my car again.

[Larryandlinda]

About a year ago I noticed one young, very unkept young man, begging for money at the intersection of Rt 41 and Rt 42. I may be a bad person but, I do not believe that folks should be allowed to beg in the middle of a very dangerous intersection. While my heart goes out to those in need, I do not think that the middle of the street walking from car to car with traffic whizzing by is the safest envirement for those people. There are churches and synagogues all around that offer help. Now there are six to eight people at a time covering all four corners. I've seen them drive up in cars and park at the gas station. I've also seen them get out of a van. They are also out in the street in front of Walmart and also Home depot. This situation in my opinion is getting out of hand and someone is going to get hurt. What I would like to know is, is it legal for these folks to do this? If it is legal, I still believe that it is dangerous and law enforcement should at least check these people out, to see if their situation is legit or a scam.

A newer twist is 'stranded' people highway rest stops.
Families, older women, as well as the typical younger/mid-age men are involved.

For over 50 years we have tried to give food to those claiming to be hungry,
(even ordering fine meals to go from restaurants where we were eating).

At our retail shops, we get wanderers begging, 'stranded' or otherwise.
We have gasoline handy, and have offered day work to anyone willing.

It has rarely worked.

Plain and simple, begging is often the job, why work?

Is it dangerous for the panhandlers to walk among the lanes?
sure, but safer than the way heavy senior in Baltimore who regularly ties up traffic rolling among the traffic lanes on busy MLK near the Stadiums. Near misses are common.

While we hope we don't see wreaths on the corner, this is dangerous.

Yes, there's plenty of work, guidance, and counseling and these folk should take advantage of it

L and L

[l2ridehd]

There is only one reason they are there. Because it works. I refuse to support this type of panhandling, but do give generously to the Salvation Army. As long as people keep giving them money, they will be there.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

A couple weeks ago I seen a woman on 441 by Mcdonalds panhandling. Her sign said she was an out of work CNA with kids.
My first thought was if she can't find a job around here then substance abuse or criminal history must be a leading factor.
I also have noticed that when the snowbirds return that there are more beggars at the intersections.

[Lou Card]

I drove up and down 14th street through Washington DC for 6 years. There was one begger that was there on the same corner only in the morning, but at about 6:30 am when I went thru, he was more reliable than my workers. He only had a very small sign that said HELP PLEASE. For six years, every morning, and I would see maybe one out of every 5 or 6 cars had him something. Never a bag of food or a blanket, but hand to hand most likely change. Lights changed at about 3 minute intervals. Figure if he only got 50 Cents in Change per donation, 20 times per hour, thats 10.00 dollars tax free per hour. I feel it was probably a lot more than 10 dollars. Why work for min wage with that kind of take for just standing up with your hand out.

[MelZ]

A few years ago I was approached by a young man across from Penn Station in NYC. He said he was hungry and hadn't eaten in a day.

I bought him a hot dog which he proceeded to try to sell.

Don't give to give in to them, the only job their interested in is ...........

PANHANDLING

I donate to reputable charities instead

[graciegirl]

I think that most of us would be amazed to know how much money they take in begging.

[iandwk]

I have read articles about this being a business, with the panhandlers pulling in as much as $2000 per week. Nice work if you can get it. I never made that much when I was working for a living.

There used to be a group in eastern Kentucky that had a computerized system of hitting up churches on Sunday mornings. They were networked all over the area and even down into Tennessee so the same carload of filthy children and adults in their beat-up old cars wouldn't hit the same church twice. They were making a lot of money. Our local sheriff told me to start sending them to him, that he had funds for people with legitimate needs like that. The next Sunday a family came to our church and I told the man to wait and I would call the sheriff because he could help them. They burned rubber getting out of the parking lot. We never got another visit from any of them. I guess their computer network x'ed us out.

[nONIE]

It seems there are always "will work for food" People by the Walmart on 44l. Last winter one of them had a tiny chichuahua puppy with him that looked emaciated. Thats where my resistance gave in . I went into Walmart and bought it enough dog food to last for a long long time , I tried to resist giving the beggar money bought thought "ten dollars isnt going to kill me".

Guess I must learn to be alot tougher in these situations but I know if theres an animal involved I will never be strong! :sigh:

[graciegirl]

Dearest Nonie,

That doesn't surprise me. You have the kindest heart.

[Chopper]

While walking down the street in Houston with a client on our way to lunch we were approached by a young man. He told us his daughter was very sick and he didn't have the money to have a prescription filled. The person I was with had apparently heard similar stories before. He offered to have the prescription filled at a drugstore down the street. The young man said "never mind" and walked away. If I had been by myself I might have given him some money. Lesson learned.

[2BNTV]

Many years ago, I was walking with my son when in New York City and a panhandler asked for a $1.00 to buy something to drink. I noticed he had a bottle of whiskey in his hand.
My son questioned why I didn't give him the dollar he asked for and I replied, "that will enable him to further destroy himself". It would be legitimate if the panhandler were to use the monies given to them for a useful pupose.
My heart goes out to those who are truly in need and are trying to straighten their lives out. I prefer to donate to charities where the bulk of the donation goes to the charity and not for administration fees.
Unfortunately, there are many people who are homeless who need help.
IMHO - There is nothing wrong in trying to help someone but some people want others to enable their behavior. You can't help people who don't want to help themselves.

[jebartle]

A couple of months ago at the Walmart on 441, there was a young boy, clean cut, around 10-12 years of age, that was standing behind a lady that was sitting on the ground panhandling, I can only assume (that has gotten me into trouble b4) she was his mother....I'm sure this made a lasting impression on the young man..."Why work, it's easier to beg"...I know in these tough economic times there are real needs, but like previous threads, I've noticed them being dropped off in vans in groups at that intersection...Not sure what the solution is!...I'm sure it will continue until the well dries up!

[Redtail]

A few years ago I was approached by a young man across from Penn Station in NYC. He said he was hungry and hadn't eaten in a day.

I bought him a hot dog which he proceeded to try to sell.

Don't give to give in to them, the only job their interested in is ...........

PANHANDLING

I donate to reputable charities instead

i have a difficult time believing all panhandlers are bad people. when time permits at an intersection i will occasionally hand out a dollar bill and ive always been thanked in a friendly way and even more importantly i always get a warm and fuzzy feeling!! i come from humble beginnings and cant help but feel for these people.

[beartrack]

I think the bottom line here is to inform everyone we know, that no matter how these panhandlers appear, or where they appear, do not give in. They will try every means to get you to give them money. They will use the elderty, children, dogs, you name it. My fear is that in our litigious society, what would happen if you accidently hit one of them with your car at a crowded, busy intersection? Would it be your fault for being distracted or their fault for distracting you? Would it be the drivers fault for hurting one of them in the course of a fender bender of some sort, or would it be their fault for being in the middle of the street. I think that before this scenario befalls one of us, we should all be calling the Sheriff's office to ask to have them removed from the middle of the street. I will make my call today.

[beartrack]

Redtail, You sound like a very warm hearted, generous person. But I think your generousity is misplaced. Most of us come from humble beginnings. I was born in, and raised on, the mean streets of Brooklyn NY. Trust me, I know all about "Humble beginnings" I get "Warm and fuzzy when I give money to The Salvation army or at church or working in a soup kitchen or delivering meals on wheels" Or when my son tells my he just got home from doing a "Freedom flight' with a WW11 Veteran. There are lots and lots of ways for you to get that "warm and fuzzy feeling" without contributing to people that can get all the help they need without begging and endangering others. I hope for your sake that the next person you hand money to doesn't bite that hand. There are some very bad characters out there and you only encourage them by giving them money, thereby putting us all at risk.

[pauld315]

I can only remember a couple of times I have given money to "beggars" and all 3 tomes were worth it.

1) Years ago, I was in LA on business and a lady came up to me and asked me if I had any money that I could give her to help feed her and her little daughter. I handed her a 5 dollar bill and watched her and her daughter go directly into a small deli and order something to eat.

2) I was in Poland (again on business) and one evening this lady approached me. She was actually emaciated. Her drawn face still haunts me to this day.In her broken English, she asked if i had any money I could give her. I gave her 5 zloty (equivalent to about $1.35) She also went right to a street vendor and ordered something to eat.

3) The third time was in San Francisco by the wharf while we were on vacation. One guy there had a sign that said something to the effect "I need a beer". I said to myself that at least he was being honest and gave him a couple dollars !

Nowadays, when I get approached, I just tell them that I don't carry any cash, which is almost true since I use my debit card for just about everything.
I had one lady the other day in Raleigh yell at me from across the street asking if I had 10 dollars to give her....sorry don't carry any cash !

[Redtail]

Redtail, You sound like a very warm hearted, generous person. But I think your generousity is misplaced. Most of us come from humble beginnings. I was born in, and raised on, the mean streets of Brooklyn NY. Trust me, I know all about "Humble beginnings" I get "Warm and fuzzy when I give money to The Salvation army or at church or working in a soup kitchen or delivering meals on wheels" Or when my son tells my he just got home from doing a "Freedom flight' with a WW11 Veteran. There are lots and lots of ways for you to get that "warm and fuzzy feeling" without contributing to people that can get all the help they need without begging and endangering others. I hope for your sake that the next person you hand money to doesn't bite that hand. There are some very bad characters out there and you only encourage them by giving them money, thereby putting us all at risk.

dont judge the whole world by NY......

[beartrack]

dont judge the whole world by NY......

This must be a joke, right? What's the punch line???? :1rotfl:

[Walt.]

Back around Christmas 1972 I was walking along on my lunch hour when a well dress (and attactive) girl came up to me and gave me this story about having lost her wallet and needing just a few dollars to get home (to New Jersey). She,of course, would be sooo grateful and would mail it back to me. Unfortunately for her I had noticed he hit up some other guy a few minutes earlier and declined. Good scam though... you figure "well... she's well dressed, young... doesn't look like some bum." And a lot of young guys would like to play the big shot for this "helpless girl."

A few months later I was taking my daily lunch-time walk when the same girl came up to me. Before she started I said "What?? You're still trying to get to New Jersey??" She was startled said something like "Never mind" and nailed some poor sap about a minute later. I couldn't help myself; I went over to her when the guy was gone and asked how much she made at this "job." Her answer was (and not said in a mean way) "More money than you'll ever see."
Walt.

[Forsyth]

Yes, I've seen panhandlers work as a team. In addition, as a E.R. nurse, currently working out of FL, but seeing the best and the worst, I'd like to throw in my opinion. I, too, have given people at intersections, as my "good deed of the day." However, I also see these type people, either as Medicaid or self-pay never-to-be collected. They get, at the goverment's direction, the best medical treatment that hospitals provide and are transferred to another facility for specialized care, no questions about payment has ever stopped the receipt of the best medical care. Helicopter transport where I'm currently working is $12,000 to a hospital 40 miles away. But I can't even go to an Urgent Care without "permission" from the insurance company and co-payment. Families will sell foodstamps for profit. Cell phones, manicures, pedicures, hairdos, tattoos. People come into the ER every day with moans and groans, demanding treatment of this or that ailment, then I take the drug screen and it turns up positive for cocaine. Where do they get it and how do they pay for it?? Another situation that's setting my teeth on edge: Many organizations give out free school products now. I don't remember anybody ever giving us school supplies, in addition, my father had to buy my textbooks from grade 7 to grade 12. He worked in a factory making about $30/week. No one is giving my grandchildren anything.
I'll come down from my soapbox now.....

[redwitch]

I'm one of those who does give to panhandlers. Yes, it is a job for them, but it is not an easy job. Heck, I clean houses, weed yards amongst other things. I frequently come home exhausted and it's still easier work than what these people do. I'm not in the hot sun hour after hour. I'm not sucking up exhaust fumes nor being cursed at by others. And I'm not standing at an intersection praying some idiot doesn't accidently or deliberately (yes, that has happened) try to run me over.

There are reasons these people don't have regular jobs. Sometimes it is a criminal record. Sometimes it is sheer laziness. More often, it is mental illness (bipolar being the most common). Plus, most truly are homeless and it is next to impossible to get a job without documentation and a current address, especially today.

In San Francisco, I would stop at Starbuck's every Friday on my way home and pick up all the food they were going to throw away. I would stop and give some to every panhandler I saw on my way to the BART station. In 5 years, there was only one who turned down the food. I ended up getting to know a few of them quite well. Some of their stories were heartbreaking; some were of the you got what you deserved variety; some were more or less of the oh well variety. Regardless, they were human and I could help them.

Today, if I have the spare change I will give it to the homeless. How they spend it is their business. Some will use it for nourishment; some for booze or drugs. I also donate to the local food kitchen and a few other local charities. What I will not do is give to the con artists who feed me a line (like the scam of needing to get home). You stand or sit with your sign, you get from me. You try to talk to me, I walk away. You have a table and chair in front of a store and a sign for a charity I've never heard of, not a dime. Bell ringers, every bit I can muster every time I see them.

I understand those who can't/won't give to panhandlers. I understand Nonie's absolute need to give to the pup. I understand those who give only in special circumstances. Personally, I don't think there is a right or wrong in giving to panhandlers, whether on a street corner, off ramp or wherever. We all have to do what is right for us.

[l2ridehd]

If you give money to these folks, you are enabling there behavior. Stop doing it and they will go away to some other corner where there are more suckers. These people make more money doing this then they would working. That is why they do it. And yes I know, some are really in need and do this to survive. And that is the sad part. Because so many have decided this is an easy way to make a living, others suffer. It's like those that take as many government handouts as they can find even though they really don't need them. Then those that really do don't get the help they need. The emergency room example used above, because it is so abused by those taking advantage of the system, those that need help in an emergency struggle to get the help they need.

So just continue to give the handouts to these people and the next time you drive by there, there will be more of them. Why not? It works.

[salpal]

Many beggers and homeless are veterans. I personally do not care if they take my money and buy booze or cigarettes. The dollar or two I hand them is not going to endanger my lifestyle. You can say all you want about how I am encouraging them to be unhealthy, blah, blah, blah, I don't care, I feel sorry for them and that is just me.:blahblahblah::blahblahblah:

[Larryandlinda]

It seems there are always "will work for food" People by the Walmart on 44l. Last winter one of them had a tiny chichuahua puppy with him that looked emaciated. Thats where my resistance gave in . I went into Walmart and bought it enough dog food to last for a long long time , I tried to resist giving the beggar money bought thought "ten dollars isnt going to kill me".

Guess I must learn to be alot tougher in these situations but I know if theres an animal involved I will never be strong! :sigh:

Yes wise men know about puppy power and it's influence over women (and man)

L and L

[graciegirl]

Yes, I've seen panhandlers work as a team. In addition, as a E.R. nurse, currently working out of FL, but seeing the best and the worst, I'd like to throw in my opinion. I, too, have given people at intersections, as my "good deed of the day." However, I also see these type people, either as Medicaid or self-pay never-to-be collected. They get, at the goverment's direction, the best medical treatment that hospitals provide and are transferred to another facility for specialized care, no questions about payment has ever stopped the receipt of the best medical care. Helicopter transport where I'm currently working is $12,000 to a hospital 40 miles away. But I can't even go to an Urgent Care without "permission" from the insurance company and co-payment. Families will sell foodstamps for profit. Cell phones, manicures, pedicures, hairdos, tattoos. People come into the ER every day with moans and groans, demanding treatment of this or that ailment, then I take the drug screen and it turns up positive for cocaine. Where do they get it and how do they pay for it?? Another situation that's setting my teeth on edge: Many organizations give out free school products now. I don't remember anybody ever giving us school supplies, in addition, my father had to buy my textbooks from grade 7 to grade 12. He worked in a factory making about $30/week. No one is giving my grandchildren anything.
I'll come down from my soapbox now.....

Well said. I sure do agree.:clap2::thumbup:

and I'll add this. My husband says that we are the only country in the world whose poor people are overweight.

I don't want anyone here to think that I don't care about people who are down and out. No one knows exactly how a person lives and what their problems are. I just think that a lot more people could try a little harder than they do. I really believe that a lot of people are lazy and just live off of the government.

[uujudy]

We had a minister who printed up a list of all the social service agencies & their addresses in the town, including food banks, shelters, churches & clinics. She printed it so the list was small (but still readable), and we could carry them in our wallets, and she encouraged us to give them to the panhandlers instead of money. Everyone I gave a list to thanked me. One of them cried. She was new in town and had no idea there were agencies that would help her.

[Talk Host]

Okay, here are my 3 begging stories.

In Kathmandu, Nepal on business I was constantly approached by beggars, mostly little children. They would even stand outside a restaurant window staring in at me as I ate. One thing that struck me, after a while, was that many of them had a deformity of some sort. Mostly arms and legs. I asked one of my Nepalese colleagues about that aspect. Here is what she said: "When these children are infants, their parents break one of their arms or legs so that it is deformed, enhancing their ability to successfully beg."

In Novosibirsk, Siberia, a colleague and I were walking along a main street on a snowy Friday evening. We were approached by a Siberian fellow. He said, "Are you American guys?" We said "Yes." He then said, "Please give me $75 so I can buy a Japanese television."

Many of you have been to Ireland. In Dublin mostly, "Tinker" children have been trained to beg by their parents. They will get in front of you on a Dublin street, walk backward at the same pace as you with their eyes fixed on yours. All the while, shaking a small empty box toward you. It's hypnotic and haunting.

If you don't know about Tinkers. Look them up on Google.