Part of TVH message received today 12/8

[gatorbill1]

At The Villages Health, we care for almost 60,000 patients. As of December 4, we know of 356 cases with 75 hospitalizations and eight deaths. There are likely cases among our patients we have not heard about. We likely heard about nearly all our patients who were hospitalized or died. Our employees are also not immune. As of December 7, we have tested 73 team members with 22 being positive and 51 negative. All 22 team members are back at work having completed the necessary quarantine period. Most health care workers, whether at hospitals, nursing homes or our care centers have their exposures outside of work.

TVH has been running rapid testing with support from the State of Florida using Abbott Labs Binax tests supplied by the federal government. To date, TVH is approaching 4,000 tests run and overall positive rate is over 7%. Peak day testing has been about 13%. Another 5,000 test kits were recently received so testing will continue. There is no cost for testing, and you do not have to be a TVH patient to be tested. Testing is being offered at our Brownwood and Creekside Care Centers by online appointment. The website is The Villages Health Rapid COVID-19 Screening - Registration (http://www.tvhcovidtest.com) with availability on first come, first served basis.

As Florida moved into Phase 3 in September, there have been more people out and about with a higher likelihood of exposure. While there is scattered evidence of “pandemic fatigue,” maintaining vigilance is important. As cases have surged in multiple places around the state, country and world, locally case increases have also occurred. In many parts of the country, the increased risk of COVID infection led to restrictions on elective procedures being re-enacted; yet locally, that directive has not been given.

Communities where large populations of seniors live, are advised to take proactive steps to reduce the risk of disease transmission. The Villages® Community is the nation’s largest 55 and older active living community.

Seniors who have serious medical conditions, such as heart or lung disease, diabetes, or conditions reflective of weakened immunity, are at even higher risk. These individuals can make decisions that reduce their risk of getting COVID-19. They should consider postponing participation in large scale social events, particularly those events held indoors with multiple close contacts. Everyone can help reduce the risk of community spread until the magnitude and severity of this infection is more widely known and understood.


As we move into Phase 3 of reopening, the best way to continue progressing back to normal is maintain practices that reduce the likelihood of spread.

Everyone can help by taking the following actions:

People should not attend in-person events if they are sick
Social distancing of at least six feet is important
Consistent mask wearing is advised
Frequent handwashing, avoid shaking hands and minimize hand-to-face contact
Cover your nose and mouth when sneezing and coughing, then wash your hands

[Stu from NYC]

We were both tested this morning and thankfully both negative.

What is really scare is the people not taking proper precautions and than spreading it to medical providers.

[asianthree]

No healthcare system will claim any employees have contracted virus in the facility. That would open up liability issues, plus comp cases

Since the beginning if you tested positive, you used all cto, pto, or vacation time, until you exhausted your bank.

After bank is gone you are then on a unpaid leave. Responsible for paying your own healthcare. While working that cost is around $300 to $500 per month. Unpaid leave your healthcare is $1200 to $2800 per month.

[Kenswing]

No healthcare system will claim any employees have contracted virus in the facility. That would open up liability issues, plus comp cases

Since the beginning if you tested positive, you used all cto, pto, or vacation time, until you exhausted your bank.

After bank is gone you are then on a unpaid leave. Responsible for paying your own healthcare. While working that cost is around $300 to $500 per month. Unpaid leave your healthcare is $1200 to $2800 per month.
It's different where my wife works. She literally sneezed once at work and they administered a Covid test and sent her home. That was on the first day of her 4 day week. On the fourth day she got her results back and was cleared for work. She received "Pandemic Pay" for the days she missed. I'm not positive but I think the state is funding at least a portion of it. They've also gone to testing front line staff weekly. So far she's 0-4..

Staff that tests positive are also getting pandemic pay.

[xkeowner]

At The Villages Health, we care for almost 60,000 patients. As of December 4, we know of 356 cases with 75 hospitalizations and eight deaths. There are likely cases among our patients we have not heard about. We likely heard about nearly all our patients who were hospitalized or died. Our employees are also not immune. As of December 7, we have tested 73 team members with 22 being positive and 51 negative. All 22 team members are back at work having completed the necessary quarantine period. Most health care workers, whether at hospitals, nursing homes or our care centers have their exposures outside of work.

TVH has been running rapid testing with support from the State of Florida using Abbott Labs Binax tests supplied by the federal government. To date, TVH is approaching 4,000 tests run and overall positive rate is over 7%. Peak day testing has been about 13%. Another 5,000 test kits were recently received so testing will continue. There is no cost for testing, and you do not have to be a TVH patient to be tested. Testing is being offered at our Brownwood and Creekside Care Centers by online appointment. The website is The Villages Health Rapid COVID-19 Screening - Registration (http://www.tvhcovidtest.com) with availability on first come, first served basis.

As Florida moved into Phase 3 in September, there have been more people out and about with a higher likelihood of exposure. While there is scattered evidence of “pandemic fatigue,” maintaining vigilance is important. As cases have surged in multiple places around the state, country and world, locally case increases have also occurred. In many parts of the country, the increased risk of COVID infection led to restrictions on elective procedures being re-enacted; yet locally, that directive has not been given.

Communities where large populations of seniors live, are advised to take proactive steps to reduce the risk of disease transmission. The Villages® Community is the nation’s largest 55 and older active living community.

Seniors who have serious medical conditions, such as heart or lung disease, diabetes, or conditions reflective of weakened immunity, are at even higher risk. These individuals can make decisions that reduce their risk of getting COVID-19. They should consider postponing participation in large scale social events, particularly those events held indoors with multiple close contacts. Everyone can help reduce the risk of community spread until the magnitude and severity of this infection is more widely known and understood.


As we move into Phase 3 of reopening, the best way to continue progressing back to normal is maintain practices that reduce the likelihood of spread.

Everyone can help by taking the following actions:

People should not attend in-person events if they are sick
Social distancing of at least six feet is important
Consistent mask wearing is advised
Frequent handwashing, avoid shaking hands and minimize hand-to-face contact
Cover your nose and mouth when sneezing and coughing, then wash your hands

Good summary post. I am curious since almost 1/3 of the employees tested were positive what is the data on their wearing of masks while away from the job? The infection rate seems high if they were following your recommended guidelines.

[Homer49]

A bit off topic, but I thought the first sentence was very interesting: “ At The Villages Health, we care for almost 60,000 patients.”

I assume that number includes both primary care and specialist patients. Anyone have a feel for how many of that 60,000 patients are in their primary care system?

[Debfrommaine]

It's different where my wife works. She literally sneezed once at work and they administered a Covid test and sent her home. That was on the first day of her 4 day week. On the fourth day she got her results back and was cleared for work. She received "Pandemic Pay" for the days she missed. I'm not positive but I think the state is funding at least a portion of it. They've also gone to testing front line staff weekly. So far she's 0-4..

Staff that tests positive are also getting pandemic pay.

She's lucky she got Pandemic pay. My health care facility mandates using your vacation time for the first 3 days and on the 4th day a separate sick bank kicks in.

[Girlcopper]

At The Villages Health, we care for almost 60,000 patients. As of December 4, we know of 356 cases with 75 hospitalizations and eight deaths. There are likely cases among our patients we have not heard about. We likely heard about nearly all our patients who were hospitalized or died. Our employees are also not immune. As of December 7, we have tested 73 team members with 22 being positive and 51 negative. All 22 team members are back at work having completed the necessary quarantine period. Most health care workers, whether at hospitals, nursing homes or our care centers have their exposures outside of work.

TVH has been running rapid testing with support from the State of Florida using Abbott Labs Binax tests supplied by the federal government. To date, TVH is approaching 4,000 tests run and overall positive rate is over 7%. Peak day testing has been about 13%. Another 5,000 test kits were recently received so testing will continue. There is no cost for testing, and you do not have to be a TVH patient to be tested. Testing is being offered at our Brownwood and Creekside Care Centers by online appointment. The website is The Villages Health Rapid COVID-19 Screening - Registration (http://www.tvhcovidtest.com) with availability on first come, first served basis.

As Florida moved into Phase 3 in September, there have been more people out and about with a higher likelihood of exposure. While there is scattered evidence of “pandemic fatigue,” maintaining vigilance is important. As cases have surged in multiple places around the state, country and world, locally case increases have also occurred. In many parts of the country, the increased risk of COVID infection led to restrictions on elective procedures being re-enacted; yet locally, that directive has not been given.

Communities where large populations of seniors live, are advised to take proactive steps to reduce the risk of disease transmission. The Villages® Community is the nation’s largest 55 and older active living community.

Seniors who have serious medical conditions, such as heart or lung disease, diabetes, or conditions reflective of weakened immunity, are at even higher risk. These individuals can make decisions that reduce their risk of getting COVID-19. They should consider postponing participation in large scale social events, particularly those events held indoors with multiple close contacts. Everyone can help reduce the risk of community spread until the magnitude and severity of this infection is more widely known and understood.


As we move into Phase 3 of reopening, the best way to continue progressing back to normal is maintain practices that reduce the likelihood of spread.

Everyone can help by taking the following actions:

People should not attend in-person events if they are sick
Social distancing of at least six feet is important
Consistent mask wearing is advised
Frequent handwashing, avoid shaking hands and minimize hand-to-face contact
Cover your nose and mouth when sneezing and coughing, then wash your hands
Old news! Should have known this and been doing this for months!

[jacksonbrown]

All 22 team members are back at work having completed the necessary quarantine period.

So Villages Health directors are attesting that CV disappears completely from within the affected individuals within 14 days. And that the individuals are no longer infectious, particularly indoors where most, if not all, attend to patients.

Really?

Most health care workers, whether at hospitals, nursing homes or our care centers have their exposures outside of work.

Someone please interpret this for me.

I don't understand "have their exposures outside of work".

[toeser]

At The Villages Health, we care for almost 60,000 patients. As of December 4, we know of 356 cases with 75 hospitalizations and eight deaths. There are likely cases among our patients we have not heard about. We likely heard about nearly all our patients who were hospitalized or died. Our employees are also not immune. As of December 7, we have tested 73 team members with 22 being positive and 51 negative. All 22 team members are back at work having completed the necessary quarantine period. Most health care workers, whether at hospitals, nursing homes or our care centers have their exposures outside of work.

TVH has been running rapid testing with support from the State of Florida using Abbott Labs Binax tests supplied by the federal government. To date, TVH is approaching 4,000 tests run and overall positive rate is over 7%. Peak day testing has been about 13%. Another 5,000 test kits were recently received so testing will continue. There is no cost for testing, and you do not have to be a TVH patient to be tested. Testing is being offered at our Brownwood and Creekside Care Centers by online appointment. The website is The Villages Health Rapid COVID-19 Screening - Registration (http://www.tvhcovidtest.com) with availability on first come, first served basis.

As Florida moved into Phase 3 in September, there have been more people out and about with a higher likelihood of exposure. While there is scattered evidence of “pandemic fatigue,” maintaining vigilance is important. As cases have surged in multiple places around the state, country and world, locally case increases have also occurred. In many parts of the country, the increased risk of COVID infection led to restrictions on elective procedures being re-enacted; yet locally, that directive has not been given.

Communities where large populations of seniors live, are advised to take proactive steps to reduce the risk of disease transmission. The Villages® Community is the nation’s largest 55 and older active living community.

Seniors who have serious medical conditions, such as heart or lung disease, diabetes, or conditions reflective of weakened immunity, are at even higher risk. These individuals can make decisions that reduce their risk of getting COVID-19. They should consider postponing participation in large scale social events, particularly those events held indoors with multiple close contacts. Everyone can help reduce the risk of community spread until the magnitude and severity of this infection is more widely known and understood.


As we move into Phase 3 of reopening, the best way to continue progressing back to normal is maintain practices that reduce the likelihood of spread.

Everyone can help by taking the following actions:

People should not attend in-person events if they are sick
Social distancing of at least six feet is important
Consistent mask wearing is advised
Frequent handwashing, avoid shaking hands and minimize hand-to-face contact
Cover your nose and mouth when sneezing and coughing, then wash your hands


I hope people that are getting tested feel they have a reason to be tested beyond idle curiosity. We should not waste resources that may be needed by others. I have no plans to ever be tested unless I have strong reason to believe I have been exposed or have the virus.

[golfing eagles]

Good summary post. I am curious since almost 1/3 of the employees tested were positive what is the data on their wearing of masks while away from the job? The infection rate seems high if they were following your recommended guidelines.

Doesn't matter if the employees were wearing a mask, only those that were around them

[golfing eagles]

All 22 team members are back at work having completed the necessary quarantine period.

So Villages Health directors are attesting that CV disappears completely from within the affected individuals within 14 days. And that the individuals are no longer infectious, particularly indoors where most, if not all, attend to patients.

Really?

Most health care workers, whether at hospitals, nursing homes or our care centers have their exposures outside of work.

Someone please interpret this for me.

I don't understand "have their exposures outside of work".

Yes, really. The contagious period is self-limited

Exposure outside of work refers to their off duty time, not from patients in the office. How they determined this is another question.

[jacksonbrown]

Exposure outside of work refers to their off duty time, not from patients in the office. How they determined this is another question.

Thank you GE. I "assumed" the same until I considered just how ridiculous this might be. Surely the sentence was penned by a PR hack, not a medical professional.

Most of the missive is gratuitous advertising.

[Jerseyborn]

Even though wearing a mask is more protective of your neighbor, it also offers a percentage of protection to the one wearing the mask.

[Jerseyborn]

Exposure after work hours ie- eating out, visiting friends, shopping in person.

[golfing eagles]

Even though wearing a mask is more protective of your neighbor, it also offers a percentage of protection to the one wearing the mask.

True. Maybe 0.001%

[merrymini]

I wish people who make no sense would shut up and not expect us to read missives that run for untold paragraphs of junk.

[ts12755]

We are just destroying people. Families, lives, businesses by locking down. Open all businesses, schools, etc... let this virus rage and it will be gone or under control, like Spanish flu, in 18 months. Remember, 80% of the population won't even know they have this virus.

[donassaid]

Just one question. If masks work so well, with 90% or more wearing masks all the time, why is the virus still "exploding" across the country, even in states with draconian lockdiwns? Just saying.

[oneclickplus]

At The Villages Health, we care for almost 60,000 patients. As of December 4, we know of 356 cases with 75 hospitalizations and eight deaths.

So, in a population of generally seniors, we have an infection rate of about half a percent (.59% or .0059); about 1 in every 200 is infected (not necessarily sick or even have symptoms). Less than a quarter of those or about 1/10th of 1% (.00125) see the inside of a hospital. And a whopping death rate of about 1/100th of 1% (0.000133).

Tell me again why the country is locked down, businesses and livelihood are being destroyed, suicides and depression are way up. I'm sorry but it's time for some serious civil disobedience - a serious push back against those in power who are destroying America for 0.000133

It's not that I don't care. I care very much about the 99.987%; that is, everyone else. Why don't others?

This is not political. I'm just doing the math presented.

[FromNY]

Because many are not wearing the masks appropriately. Or are using Masks that do not provide protection. So they are having false sense of security. Unfortunately most people are not taught how to wear and care for masks. Sad sad...

[jacksonbrown]

Asymptomatic people who test positive for CV are not necessarily contagious.

Calling an incidence of a positive test a “case” is highly misleading, for it implies illness or impairment, when many people suffer no symptoms at all.

Why bother to find out if we have this new bug if we feel fine and have no symptoms of illness.

It’s high time to boot out the BS regarding CV, beginning with the fib that “testing positive” means there’s another “case of CV ” that must be reported to the public.

Is it that THE daily tally reports on “cases” help keep the public brainwashed and compliant?

For the many who continue to accept as true what they get from television and from other mainstream media regarding CV, thinking that, well, “those news reporters wouldn’t be lying,” I have this to say "if you think the mainstream news delivers the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, you had better think again".

[jacksonbrown]

Because many are not wearing the masks appropriately. Or are using Masks that do not provide protection. So they are having false sense of security. Unfortunately most people are not taught how to wear and care for masks. Sad sad...

We were in attendance for last Saturday's Lady Lake Christmas Parade.

While I can understand that many on the sidelines chose not to wear any mask, many of these ladies wore only a clear face shield, which does little to provide for any protection from the CV.

[Bill14564]

...

Why bother to find out if we have this new bug if we feel fine and have no symptoms of illness.

...



Perhaps for the 100,000+ who don't feel fine and are currently hospitalized, the 287,000 who have died and don't feel anything at all, and the hundreds of millions who are trying to avoid becoming infected and rolling the dice on how they will feel.

[golfing eagles]

Perhaps for the 100,000+ who don't feel fine and are currently hospitalized, the 287,000 who have died and don't feel anything at all, and the hundreds of millions who are trying to avoid becoming infected and rolling the dice on how they will feel.

I must be missing something---that response made no sense to me
You mean people should get tested for the dead victims? Those already in the hospital (which I doubt is 100K). The general population?--I doubt you will come into contact with hundreds of millions of people

[Bill14564]

We were in attendance for last Saturday's Lady Lake Christmas Parade.

While I can understand that many on the sidelines chose not to wear any mask, many of these ladies wore only a clear face shield, which does little to provide for any protection from the CV.

You probably want a better example. 1. Clear face shields DO provide some protection, particularly by preventing droplets from traveling away from the nose and mouth. 2. Those ladies appear to be more than six feet from each other and from the sidelines. 3. Two out of the three ladies pictured clearly enough to determine what they are wearing ARE wearing masks.

[Bill14564]

I must be missing something---that response made no sense to me

We (in the larger sense) should find out if we have this bug, even if we don't have symptoms, in order to protect those around us. It isn't about whether *I* feel sick, it's about whether I might be contagious and make someone else sick. While I have no symptoms and feel fine, the person I infect may not be as fortunate.

And yes, of course, there is little need to get tested if you have had no known exposure to the virus.

[golfing eagles]

We (in the larger sense) should find out if we have this bug, even if we don't have symptoms, in order to protect those around us. It isn't about whether *I* feel sick, it's about whether I might be contagious and make someone else sick. While I have no symptoms and feel fine, the person I infect may not be as fortunate.

And yes, of course, there is little need to get tested if you have had no known exposure to the virus.

If you are positive, but have no symptoms of coughing/sneezing and stay 6 feet away from others, you won't infect anyone regardless of whether you have been tested or wear a mask

[Bill14564]

If you are positive, but have no symptoms of coughing/sneezing and stay 6 feet away from others, you won't infect anyone regardless of whether you have been tested or wear a mask

Thank you for the advice, but that may not help the others in my household. While I might be able to stay six feet away, I will still be exhaling into a a shared enclosed area and I will be touching shared items. If I am infected then the best advice is to isolate. But, I will only know if I am infected by getting a test.

[golfing eagles]

Thank you for the advice, but that may not help the others in my household. While I might be able to stay six feet away, I will still be exhaling into a a shared enclosed area and I will be touching shared items. If I am infected then the best advice is to isolate. But, I will only know if I am infected by getting a test.

So what and so what? Surface to human transmission is essentially zero, and unless you live in a 6 foot closet with no ventilation, normal breathing is highly unlikely to put enough viable virus into the air others breathe to infect them. But if you live in close contact with multiple family members I would wear a mask and isolate as much as possible also. It probably won't make a difference in terms of whether or not a family member gets COVID, but you would feel awful if someone in your home contracted it.

[ScottS]

The test kits they are using don’t test for covid, they test for the flu. And 90% of those give a false positive. The Netherlands, Ireland and about 8 other countries are raising hell over the false pandemic. Stop the fear mongering!

[Bill14564]

So what and so what? Surface to human transmission is essentially zero, and unless you live in a 6 foot closet with no ventilation, normal breathing is highly unlikely to put enough viable virus into the air others breathe to infect them. But if you live in close contact with multiple family members I would wear a mask and isolate as much as possible also. It probably won't make a difference in terms of whether or not a family member gets COVID, but you would feel awful if someone in your home contracted it.

The CDC, some studies suggesting aerosol transmission, and common sense don't agree with you. But you do you and I'll do me and we'll be fine.

[Joe C.]

Whenever I get a message from TV Health, I just delete it. It's their "advice" or other fluff stuff. I make all my appointments and messages to my doctor through the "portal". I don't need to waste my time on things that for the most part don't concern me.

[Bill14564]

The test kits they are using don’t test for covid, they test for the flu. And 90% of those give a false positive. The Netherlands, Ireland and about 8 other countries are raising hell over the false pandemic. Stop the fear mongering!

This is ridiculous!

[golfing eagles]

The test kits they are using don’t test for covid, they test for the flu. And 90% of those give a false positive. The Netherlands, Ireland and about 8 other countries are raising hell over the false pandemic. Stop the fear mongering!

Where did you get THAT idea???? Source please, I need a good laugh this morning

[golfing eagles]

The CDC, some studies suggesting aerosol transmission, and common sense don't agree with you. But you do you and I'll do me and we'll be fine.

"Common sense" often does not agree with scientific studies. Aerosol transmission is only at close distances and with a high inoculum. And I didn't see exactly what the "CDC" stated, or if it is an official announcement or one persons opinion

[KRM0614]

At The Villages Health, we care for almost 60,000 patients. As of December 4, we know of 356 cases with 75 hospitalizations and eight deaths. There are likely cases among our patients we have not heard about. We likely heard about nearly all our patients who were hospitalized or died. Our employees are also not immune. As of December 7, we have tested 73 team members with 22 being positive and 51 negative. All 22 team members are back at work having completed the necessary quarantine period. Most health care workers, whether at hospitals, nursing homes or our care centers have their exposures outside of work.

TVH has been running rapid testing with support from the State of Florida using Abbott Labs Binax tests supplied by the federal government. To date, TVH is approaching 4,000 tests run and overall positive rate is over 7%. Peak day testing has been about 13%. Another 5,000 test kits were recently received so testing will continue. There is no cost for testing, and you do not have to be a TVH patient to be tested. Testing is being offered at our Brownwood and Creekside Care Centers by online appointment. The website is The Villages Health Rapid COVID-19 Screening - Registration (http://www.tvhcovidtest.com) with availability on first come, first served basis.

As Florida moved into Phase 3 in September, there have been more people out and about with a higher likelihood of exposure. While there is scattered evidence of “pandemic fatigue,” maintaining vigilance is important. As cases have surged in multiple places around the state, country and world, locally case increases have also occurred. In many parts of the country, the increased risk of COVID infection led to restrictions on elective procedures being re-enacted; yet locally, that directive has not been given.

Communities where large populations of seniors live, are advised to take proactive steps to reduce the risk of disease transmission. The Villages® Community is the nation’s largest 55 and older active living community.

Seniors who have serious medical conditions, such as heart or lung disease, diabetes, or conditions reflective of weakened immunity, are at even higher risk. These individuals can make decisions that reduce their risk of getting COVID-19. They should consider postponing participation in large scale social events, particularly those events held indoors with multiple close contacts. Everyone can help reduce the risk of community spread until the magnitude and severity of this infection is more widely known and understood.


As we move into Phase 3 of reopening, the best way to continue progressing back to normal is maintain practices that reduce the likelihood of spread.

Everyone can help by taking the following actions:

People should not attend in-person events if they are sick
Social distancing of at least six feet is important
Consistent mask wearing is advised
Frequent handwashing, avoid shaking hands and minimize hand-to-face contact
Cover your nose and mouth when sneezing and coughing, then wash your hands
Are you working for them? Do much false information and fear mongering

[Bill14564]

Are you working for them? Do much false information and fear mongering

The original post looked informative to me. Nothing in it looked unreasonable and nothing looked like fear mongering. Which specific details do you claim to be false?

[Bogie Shooter]

The test kits they are using don’t test for covid, they test for the flu. And 90% of those give a false positive. The Netherlands, Ireland and about 8 other countries are raising hell over the false pandemic. Stop the fear mongering!

Who is they?

[jimjamuser]

At The Villages Health, we care for almost 60,000 patients. As of December 4, we know of 356 cases with 75 hospitalizations and eight deaths. There are likely cases among our patients we have not heard about. We likely heard about nearly all our patients who were hospitalized or died. Our employees are also not immune. As of December 7, we have tested 73 team members with 22 being positive and 51 negative. All 22 team members are back at work having completed the necessary quarantine period. Most health care workers, whether at hospitals, nursing homes or our care centers have their exposures outside of work.

TVH has been running rapid testing with support from the State of Florida using Abbott Labs Binax tests supplied by the federal government. To date, TVH is approaching 4,000 tests run and overall positive rate is over 7%. Peak day testing has been about 13%. Another 5,000 test kits were recently received so testing will continue. There is no cost for testing, and you do not have to be a TVH patient to be tested. Testing is being offered at our Brownwood and Creekside Care Centers by online appointment. The website is The Villages Health Rapid COVID-19 Screening - Registration (http://www.tvhcovidtest.com) with availability on first come, first served basis.

As Florida moved into Phase 3 in September, there have been more people out and about with a higher likelihood of exposure. While there is scattered evidence of “pandemic fatigue,” maintaining vigilance is important. As cases have surged in multiple places around the state, country and world, locally case increases have also occurred. In many parts of the country, the increased risk of COVID infection led to restrictions on elective procedures being re-enacted; yet locally, that directive has not been given.

Communities where large populations of seniors live, are advised to take proactive steps to reduce the risk of disease transmission. The Villages® Community is the nation’s largest 55 and older active living community.

Seniors who have serious medical conditions, such as heart or lung disease, diabetes, or conditions reflective of weakened immunity, are at even higher risk. These individuals can make decisions that reduce their risk of getting COVID-19. They should consider postponing participation in large scale social events, particularly those events held indoors with multiple close contacts. Everyone can help reduce the risk of community spread until the magnitude and severity of this infection is more widely known and understood.


As we move into Phase 3 of reopening, the best way to continue progressing back to normal is maintain practices that reduce the likelihood of spread.

Everyone can help by taking the following actions:

People should not attend in-person events if they are sick
Social distancing of at least six feet is important
Consistent mask wearing is advised
Frequent handwashing, avoid shaking hands and minimize hand-to-face contact
Cover your nose and mouth when sneezing and coughing, then wash your hands
With respect to NOT shaking hands ( which is such obvious advice).......It should be noted that on the front page of the Villages Sun, there is a picture of 2 VFW older adults shaking hands (without gloves on). They have masks on, but one man has his nose uncovered and they are face-to-face at about a one-foot distance.

That front-page message strongly promotes BAD health and welfare advice to all of The Villages. It is typical of the newspaper's continual DOWNPLAYING of the CV disease spread that endangers ALL The Villages residents. A good newspaper editor would have caught that mistake and stopped it.

[Byte1]

I have heard and read many times that the COVID test is not conclusive and in many cases result in false POSITIVE readings. So, if you get a false positive and have no symptoms, they have you scared and quarantined.
Here is something I read recently, and I am interested in what the "experts" on here have to say about it. I am sure that some will say that it's not valid, but even if so I think it is something to consider. Believe or scoff, your choice.

"....people can be exposed to virus, and mount a simple innate immune response and never know any differently. When you test these people with very low viral loads, who are not sick, you can find the viral RNA code that is used to “diagnose” if you cycle enough times. ....... Labcorp cycles at least 40 times to detect viral genome fragments. The PCR test was never intended for diagnosis of infection but as a qualitative test for presence of parts of a virus genome. .. there has been some confusion circulating the net about what the inventor Kary Mullis had said about that. But we walk daily with people who have any number of parts of killer virus or bacterial genomes which one could pick up with a PCR test if one had the specific test for it."

"When it comes to COVID, the presence of viral particles picked up by the PCR technique does not and has not been quantitatively linked to an active “symptomatic” infection. It simply cannot be so, because infection threshold as a result of viral load is different for each patient. It turns out, if you “cycle” over around 25 times, the false positivity of COVID infection starts getting very high."


"..the PCR test is used to amplify small amount of genetic material so as to recognize patterns of DNA by “cycling.” (Also, for RNA virus, the RNA is converted to DNA in order to be detected, it’s just the way the test works)....It works because if you amplify and cycle enough times to “grow” legitimate DNA fragments, you get something with with a fair amount of specificity. What is becoming more and more apparent is that the PCR test was not designed as a diagnostic tool for infection, and really cannot function as one without having a huge amount of false positives, period."

[jimjamuser]

No healthcare system will claim any employees have contracted virus in the facility. That would open up liability issues, plus comp cases

Since the beginning if you tested positive, you used all cto, pto, or vacation time, until you exhausted your bank.

After bank is gone you are then on a unpaid leave. Responsible for paying your own healthcare. While working that cost is around $300 to $500 per month. Unpaid leave your healthcare is $1200 to $2800 per month.
That is exactly why the countries with National Health Care have better Health outcomes like long life and better "quality of life" than in the US. Look up Australia of Switzerland and see the difference. The insurance companies OWN America and Americans meekly accept that "con job".

[jimjamuser]

Good summary post. I am curious since almost 1/3 of the employees tested were positive what is the data on their wearing of masks while away from the job? The infection rate seems high if they were following your recommended guidelines.
It would not be possible to get any meaningful statistics from that small of a group. Especially while asking a SUBJECTIVE question like, " how often do you wear your mask after work?" People would "blow-off" a question like that and just LIE.

[jimjamuser]

I hope people that are getting tested feel they have a reason to be tested beyond idle curiosity. We should not waste resources that may be needed by others. I have no plans to ever be tested unless I have strong reason to believe I have been exposed or have the virus.
if the DPA had been enacted in March, then we WOULD have plenty of tests for everyone. Other countries do NOT have that problem.

[graciegirl]

Good summary post. I am curious since almost 1/3 of the employees tested were positive what is the data on their wearing of masks while away from the job? The infection rate seems high if they were following your recommended guidelines.

We have all visited our doctor there through Zoom or something like it. Virtual visits. We did enter to have blood drawn. You MUST wear a mask and they take your temperature at the door.

I cannot tell you how we three like Villages Health and LOVE, love, love Dr. Rizzi.

[jimjamuser]

Even though wearing a mask is more protective of your neighbor, it also offers a percentage of protection to the one wearing the mask.
That is correct and was PROVEN 4 months ago. But AWARENESS has yet to sink in. That is why the US has the world's biggest CV problem. And Florida has just turned red on the US hot spot map.

[graciegirl]

that is correct and was proven 4 months ago. But awareness has yet to sink in. that is why the us has the world's biggest cv problem. And florida has just turned red on the us hot spot map.

The vaccine is coming to us soon.

[Velvet]

Asymptomatic people who test positive for CV are not necessarily contagious.

Calling an incidence of a positive test a “case” is highly misleading, for it implies illness or impairment, when many people suffer no symptoms at all.

Why bother to find out if we have this new bug if we feel fine and have no symptoms of illness.

It’s high time to boot out the BS regarding CV, beginning with the fib that “testing positive” means there’s another “case of CV ” that must be reported to the public.

Is it that THE daily tally reports on “cases” help keep the public brainwashed and compliant?

For the many who continue to accept as true what they get from television and from other mainstream media regarding CV, thinking that, well, “those news reporters wouldn’t be lying,” I have this to say "if you think the mainstream news delivers the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, you had better think again".

Regarding media and brainwashing, what about all the other countries in the world? Worldometer reports on 220 countries with the virus. Can you name one country or place outside of the US where Covid is considered a hoax or insignificant? Even Sweden has stopped their “herd immunity” experiment.

[sktb888]

Thank you for the information. :)

[golfing eagles]

That is exactly why the countries with National Health Care have better Health outcomes like long life and better "quality of life" than in the US. Look up Australia of Switzerland and see the difference. The insurance companies OWN America and Americans meekly accept that "con job".

Beware of the basis for the claim other countries have a longer life expectancy. One of the most influential criteria that goes into life expectancy is infant mortality. The US has a higher infant mortality rate than these other countries because we count EVERY live birth, even a 22 week premie that takes one breath and dies. These other countries only count births after 34 weeks, hence the difference in life expectancy.

Also consider that if health care was so wonderful in the National Health Insurance nations, why do royalty, political leaders and billionaires flock to NY or Boston when they have a serious problem, instead of Luxembourg

[jimjamuser]

So, in a population of generally seniors, we have an infection rate of about half a percent (.59% or .0059); about 1 in every 200 is infected (not necessarily sick or even have symptoms). Less than a quarter of those or about 1/10th of 1% (.00125) see the inside of a hospital. And a whopping death rate of about 1/100th of 1% (0.000133).

Tell me again why the country is locked down, businesses and livelihood are being destroyed, suicides and depression are way up. I'm sorry but it's time for some serious civil disobedience - a serious push back against those in power who are destroying America for 0.000133

It's not that I don't care. I care very much about the 99.987%; that is, everyone else. Why don't others?

This is not political. I'm just doing the math presented.
The infection rate in the Villages is 1 out of every 22 people, or 4.5 %.

[jimjamuser]

We were in attendance for last Saturday's Lady Lake Christmas Parade.

While I can understand that many on the sidelines chose not to wear any mask, many of these ladies wore only a clear face shield, which does little to provide for any protection from the CV.
Another case of bad social models!

[jimjamuser]

I must be missing something---that response made no sense to me
You mean people should get tested for the dead victims? Those already in the hospital (which I doubt is 100K). The general population?--I doubt you will come into contact with hundreds of millions of people
Today's nationwide hospitalization amount is 109,000 people.

[jimjamuser]

Perhaps for the 100,000+ who don't feel fine and are currently hospitalized, the 287,000 who have died and don't feel anything at all, and the hundreds of millions who are trying to avoid becoming infected and rolling the dice on how they will feel.
Good factual post!

[golfing eagles]

Today's nationwide hospitalization amount is 109,000 people.

And how many of those were hospitalized BECAUSE of covid vs. those admitted for other reasons and tested positive????

[jimjamuser]

Thank you for the advice, but that may not help the others in my household. While I might be able to stay six feet away, I will still be exhaling into a a shared enclosed area and I will be touching shared items. If I am infected then the best advice is to isolate. But, I will only know if I am infected by getting a test.
Absolutely correct! And some great American thought leader said last summer about CV, "testing, testing, testing!" It can NOT be said often enough that the DPA should have been enacted in March to provide ALL the quality equipment and testing, testing, testing that Americans needed and deserved. As is in discussion here and now, all of us were shortchanged, and nurses and hospital staff and their families and friends DIED over just that one inaction. The nation spit on their graves!

[golfing eagles]

Absolutely correct! And some great American thought leader said last summer about CV, "testing, testing, testing!" It can NOT be said often enough that the DPA should have been enacted in March to provide ALL the quality equipment and testing, testing, testing that Americans needed and deserved. As is in discussion here and now, all of us were shortchanged, and nurses and hospital staff and their families and friends DIED over just that one inaction. The nation spit on their graves!

And once you've done all this "testing", what's your plan for the results????

[Byte1]

Old news......Sweden tried that months ago. They quickly found out that it was a FAILURE and reversed course. It is UNCONSCIONABLE that anarchists are trying to HURT older people with bogus hyperbole!

Sweden doesn't even have the population of Florida and you consistently attempt to hold them up as a comparison to the U.S.? Please............

[jimjamuser]

[/color]

The vaccine is coming to us soon.
Yes, that IS wonderful news. But, it is not such a black and white issue as might be 1st imagined. I could write a long post about that but I won't. I put one in current events and news if anyone is interested. I can just refer you to TODAY'S CDC report saying basically that it is NOT over until It IS over.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Jerseyborn
Even though wearing a mask is more protective of your neighbor, it also offers a percentage of protection to the one wearing the mask.

Golfing eagle
True. Maybe 0.001%

That reply by Golfing Eagle is NOT correct. He made up a number to fit his personal opinion of this pandemic and how it should be managed. The degree of protection provided to the mask wearer is not known and making up an extremely low number is a bald faced attempt to manipulate the reader by a retired physician who should know better. Instead the comment might say the amount of protection is unknown.

Golfing eagle also attempts to slam the reports from the CDC saying this:

"... And I didn't see exactly what the "CDC" stated, or if it is an official announcement or one persons opinion

He, I would think, knows better. Why is CDC in quotes? He knows how to find CDC reports. Here is what is on the CDC website regarding the issue of masks and protection for the wearer: (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html)

Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
Updated Nov. 20, 2020
..Filtration for Personal Protection
Studies demonstrate that cloth mask materials can also reduce wearers’ exposure to infectious droplets through filtration, including filtration of fine droplets and particles less than 10 microns...
A retrospective case-control study from Thailand documented that, among more than 1,000 persons interviewed as part of contact tracing investigations, those who reported having always worn a mask during high-risk exposures experienced a greater than 70% reduced risk of acquiring infection compared with persons who did not wear masks under these circumstances..

Conclusions
Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2. The prevention benefit of masking is derived from the combination of source control and personal protection for the mask wearer. The relationship between source control and personal protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use. Further research is needed to expand the evidence base for the protective effect of cloth masks

The circumstances of the report from Thailand are not similar to everyday use in a community. So do not expect 70% benefit to yourself from mask wearing. Nowhere is a number given and making up a number is irresponsible. CDC reports on their website represent official consensus statements of the CDC. And the CDC is clearly saying that there is enough real benefit of mask wearing for the wearer that they devote a section of their report and much of their conclusion to discussing that benefit.

[jimjamuser]

Regarding media and brainwashing, what about all the other countries in the world? Worldometer reports on 220 countries with the virus. Can you name one country or place outside of the US where Covid is considered a hoax or insignificant? Even Sweden has stopped their “herd immunity” experiment.
Yes!!!!!! I have been saying that to TV Land now for months. Maybe some are becoming aware.

[golfing eagles]

That reply by Golfing Eagle is NOT correct. He made up a number to fit his personal opinion of this pandemic and how it should be managed. The degree of protection provided to the mask wearer is not known and making up an extremely low number is a bald faced attempt to manipulate the reader by a retired physician who should know better. Instead the comment might say the amount of protection is unknown.

Golfing eagle also attempts to slam the reports from the CDC saying this:



He, I would think, knows better. Why is CDC in quotes? He knows how to find CDC reports. Here is what is on the CDC website regarding the issue of masks and protection for the wearer: (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html)



The circumstances of the report from Thailand are not similar to everyday use in a community. So do not expect 70% benefit to yourself from mask wearing. Nowhere is a number given and making up a number is irresponsible. CDC reports on their website represent official consensus statements of the CDC. And the CDC is clearly saying that there is enough real benefit of mask wearing for the wearer that they devote a section of their report and much of their conclusion to discussing that benefit.

Yes, it's obviously a fictitious number just to show that personal protection from the usual type of mask is minimal. The CDC was in quotes because I didn't see the statement. The media loves to quote/misquote someone who works at the CDC as if it was the gospel truth.

A retrospective case controlled study from Thailand??????? I can't think of a worse study design. Retrospective studies are suspect in the best of circumstances, and I'm not convinced that Thailand is the definitive word on COVID. Have you considered that the infection rate was down 70% because everyone else around these people were also wearing masks?

Lastly, why did you make this personal? I've never responded to your posts in such a way.

[jimjamuser]

Beware of the basis for the claim other countries have a longer life expectancy. One of the most influential criteria that goes into life expectancy is infant mortality. The US has a higher infant mortality rate than these other countries because we count EVERY live birth, even a 22 week premie that takes one breath and dies. These other countries only count births after 34 weeks, hence the difference in life expectancy.

Also consider that if health care was so wonderful in the National Health Insurance nations, why do royalty, political leaders and billionaires flock to NY or Boston when they have a serious problem, instead of Luxembourg
Thank you. I accept your 1st paragraph as being correct and informative. I do not know all the details of that to be able to disagree. So it seems correct to me. You could have also have made the case that the US allows more immigration (both legal and illegal) than countries like Switzerland and many other European and Asian countries - so statistics get skewed. Like height, for example, the US average height and longevity has decreased recently due to immigration and even the US drug overdose problem.

As to the 2nd paragraph. It is true, but they come here to the US because we have the BEST health outcomes for the upper 1%. It is for the lower 90% that depend on insurance from employment, that the problem of lower health outcomes is in play. Because of not having Universal Health Care the AVERAGE US citizen is worse off "quality of life"-wise than say the average citizen of the UK, or Australia or pick most ANY 1st world country. WE, the US of A are the outlier of world countries. We are the only one dependant on Employer Insurance for health care. The insurance companies of America are the metaphorical VAMPIRE SQUID with its tentacles around the necks of the Average American - sucking the health-blood away!

[jimjamuser]

And how many of those were hospitalized BECAUSE of covid vs. those admitted for other reasons and tested positive????
That would vary from hospital to hospital. But that large number added to the LITERAL cries and actual crying of doctors on TV as they IMPLORE Americans to stay home and take this seriously - From Texas to the Dakotas they are building field tents or getting ready to build them. And the Thanksgiving spike is just beginning! It ALL points to the same thing.......BIG future problems and hospitals being overburdened and Medical care quality dropping - and staffing problems right around the corner ......and then Christmas, which may possibly be the US's greatest historic disaster. It is VERY possible!

[jaj523]

If a person gets multiple positive tests, does each one add to the total? I know several people who tested positive with no symptoms, went back a couple of weeks later and tested positive again. Do both these positives add to the total? If this is true, the number of positive tests reported could be very misleading and way overstated. It took one person I know three tests before he finally got a "negative."

[jimjamuser]

And once you've done all this "testing", what's your plan for the results????
Then. we will have individual KNOWLEDGE, which will lead to individual RESPONSIBILITY - and that will be something that the PATRIOTIC residents of TV Land can relate to without question. The US citizens do NOT like to be mandated to by the Federal government (they mistrust it) - so, this individual KNOWLEDGE will be the only FORCE that can bring about the outcome that WE ALL desire; that is, stopping the CV Plague. With this FORCE of taking the basic mask, distance, and indoor RISKS into INDIVIDUAL calculation = and added to the oncoming VACCINES, we can and hopefully will, finally achieve REAL, REAL herd immunity!!!!!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

Sweden doesn't even have the population of Florida and you consistently attempt to hold them up as a comparison to the U.S.? Please............
The dissimilar population numbers of Sweden and the US have nothing to do with my point - which was to disagree with the inappropriate medical system of trying to achieve, so-called, "Herd Immunity" without having a vaccine. It is impossible. I am trying to help! I am on your side!

[graciegirl]

Thank you. I accept your 1st paragraph as being correct and informative. I do not know all the details of that to be able to disagree. So it seems correct to me. You could have also have made the case that the US allows more immigration (both legal and illegal) than countries like Switzerland and many other European and Asian countries - so statistics get skewed. Like height, for example, the US average height and longevity has decreased recently due to immigration and even the US drug overdose problem.

As to the 2nd paragraph. It is true, but they come here to the US because we have the BEST health outcomes for the upper 1%. It is for the lower 90% that depend on insurance from employment, that the problem of lower health outcomes is in play. Because of not having Universal Health Care the AVERAGE US citizen is worse off "quality of life"-wise than say the average citizen of the UK, or Australia or pick most ANY 1st world country. WE, the US of A are the outlier of world countries. We are the only one dependant on Employer Insurance for health care. The insurance companies of America are the metaphorical VAMPIRE SQUID with its tentacles around the necks of the Average American - sucking the health-blood away!

I disagree with this argument. We have the best health care because of competition, both academic and monetary and for prestige and then throw in a matter of pride and diligence and brilliance. We have attracted the finest physicians from around this world. I cannot tell you how many lived on my street in Cincinnati.

Our systems WORKS and the expertise is extended to many people who cannot afford it, either by the teaching hospitals or by the generous grants and funds and charities established by those who ARE monetarily successful.

If you do not like to use insurance. SAVE YOUR MONEY, but don't take mine. I have never taken a thing from anyone that I didn't work for. Plus the truly kind, the real givers, the kind souls who help are usually very silent about it.

I do not feel any true caring in many posts I read here, just more of the same old "one upmanship" and big mouths.

[jacksonbrown]

a not-so-well-informed, captive audience

What?

I contend that as a group, we are better educated and better informed than any other segment of the population.

And, we are certainly not "captive".

Ask us how we spend our free (retired) time; golfing, dancing, cycling, swimming, pickle ball......

[Swoop]

That is correct and was PROVEN 4 months ago. But AWARENESS has yet to sink in. That is why the US has the world's biggest CV problem. And Florida has just turned red on the US hot spot map.
Then explain why states with strict mask mandates like Pennsylvania are spiking at higher rates than states like Florida. In addition to mask mandates, Pennsylvania has limited indoor dining (none in Philadelphia), as well as many other limitations on businesses and gatherings.

[jimjamuser]

I disagree with this argument. We have the best health care because of competition, both academic and monetary and for prestige and then throw in a matter of pride and diligence and brilliance. We have attracted the finest physicians from around this world. I cannot tell you how many lived on my street in Cincinnati.

Our systems WORKS and the expertise is extended to many people who cannot afford it, either by the teaching hospitals or by the generous grants and funds and charities established by those who ARE monetarily successful.

If you do not like to use insurance. SAVE YOUR MONEY, but don't take mine. I have never taken a thing from anyone that I didn't work for. Plus the truly kind, the real givers, the kind souls who help are usually very silent about it.

I do not feel any true caring in many posts I read here, just more of the same old "one upmanship" and big mouths.
OK, I feel forced to give my answer, which is an opinion just like yours is, and which I respect. To generalize, I see the statements of "American Exceptionalism" coming through loud and clear. You are in good company and MANY people believe that. I believe that it is a PARTIAL truth. It was 100% TRUE starting in about 1950 and continuing until about 1974, which is MY estimate only (others have mentioned different ending dates). As a proof of that.....just one proof among many, but one easily researched......look at a graph for average US worker wages in constant dollars (that eliminates dollar inflation). it shows a consistent increase from 1950 to 1974 - then it begins to level off and stays constant until around 1990 to 2000 (exact date, not important) . This was caused by several factors - increased immigration (both types) - planned weakening of US Unions - increased salaries to CEOs and even University Heads (wonder why student debt went up?) - robotic assembly lines and basic level A.I. - and foreign wars draining US men and treasure.

The end result was intentional and it increased Corporate power and profits and drove the Global Economy while leaving behind the average US worker. Note: that did NOT happen in Germany where management and unions made peace and have bathed in the glory of high GNP and quality of life because of it! Now today A.I. and robotics have improved and soon will cause CHRONIC unemployment for around 30% of US citizens. We will live to see that!

Now on to INSURANCE......it is a subject too large. I can try quickly to scratch the surface. Why is the US the only country that links insurance to employment?......you must study post WW1 to get the background. .......Richard Nixon proposed Universal Health Care - Mitt Romney had a fully functional version in Massachusetts when he was Governor......see a pattern? The VA and medicare are National Health Care programs. In the future, the US WILL universally accept Universal Health Care! - hope that helps.

[oldtimes]

I disagree with this argument. We have the best health care because of competition, both academic and monetary and for prestige and then throw in a matter of pride and diligence and brilliance. We have attracted the finest physicians from around this world. I cannot tell you how many lived on my street in Cincinnati.

Our systems WORKS and the expertise is extended to many people who cannot afford it, either by the teaching hospitals or by the generous grants and funds and charities established by those who ARE monetarily successful.

If you do not like to use insurance. SAVE YOUR MONEY, but don't take mine. I have never taken a thing from anyone that I didn't work for. Plus the truly kind, the real givers, the kind souls who help are usually very silent about it.

I do not feel any true caring in many posts I read here, just more of the same old "one upmanship" and big mouths.

If you do an internet search you will find that we do not have the best healthcare in the world. We do however spend the most money.

[jimjamuser]

a not-so-well-informed, captive audience

What?

I contend that as a group, we are better educated and better informed than any other segment of the population.

And, we are certainly not "captive".

Ask us how we spend our free (retired) time; golfing, dancing, cycling, swimming, pickle ball......
What about the paper and yesterday's front-page picture of bad Health Care habits and modeling. What about the "happy paper" description that I have often heard. What about the "bubble mentality" that I often hear about TV Land. Why was the comic strip "Doonesbury" removed some years back from the paper? Did NOT the secret SS police capture "Doonesbury".......as a communist conspirator?

[graciegirl]

If you do an internet search you will find that we do not have the best healthcare in the world. We do however spend the most money.

WHERE would you find better health care than at The Cleveland Clinic, Philadelphia Childrens, Anderson Cancer, Johns Hopkins, The Mayo?

WHERE?

[jimjamuser]

If you do an internet search you will find that we do not have the best healthcare in the world. We do however spend the most money.
Absolutely spot on. - Most wasted taxpayer money and outcomes around 30th in the free world.

[oldtimes]

WHERE would you find better health care than at The Cleveland Clinic, Philadelphia Childrens, Anderson Cancer, Johns Hopkins, The Mayo?

WHERE?

You are the queen of Bing. Type in best healthcare in the world. Americans only think they are the best but once you have traveled overseas you find that we are simply full of ourselves.

[jimjamuser]

WHERE would you find better health care than at The Cleveland Clinic, Philadelphia Childrens, Anderson Cancer, Johns Hopkins, The Mayo?

WHERE?
You can find it easily if you are in the upper 1%. Poor Blacks, Browns, and etc. living in ghettos do NOT get luxury hospital treatment - often they get zero treatment.

[jimjamuser]

You are the queen of Bing. Type in best healthcare in the world. Americans only think they are the best but once you have traveled overseas you find that we are simply full of ourselves.
Spot on!

[golfing eagles]

Absolutely spot on. - Most wasted taxpayer money and outcomes around 30th in the free world.

30th? LOL:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

An extremely flawed statistical argument purported by the WHO, an organization I wouldn't let publish treatment guidelines for my dog, much less analyze and compare health care around the world compared to the US. Heck, they won't even admit the Wuhan flu started in China. Personally, I would pull all US funding away from them.

[graciegirl]

You are the queen of Bing. Type in best healthcare in the world. Americans only think they are the best but once you have traveled overseas you find that we are simply full of ourselves.

I had a friend in Austria who had to wait three months to begin Breast cancer treatment.

I have traveled overseas. I have a daughter who lives now in London. I think the rankings are based on socialistic criteria rather than quality..

[oldtimes]

I had a friend in Austria who had to wait three months to begin Breast cancer treatment.

I have traveled overseas. I have a daughter who lives now in London. I think the rankings are based on socialistic criteria rather than quality..

I think even in other countries the quality of care you receive depends on how much you can afford.

[mmignosa]

Thank you for the information. We appreciate everyone’s efforts in helping us stay healthy.

[jimjamuser]

30th? LOL:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

An extremely flawed statistical argument purported by the WHO, an organization I wouldn't let publish treatment guidelines for my dog, much less analyze and compare health care around the world compared to the US. Heck, they won't even admit the Wuhan flu started in China. Personally, I would pull all US funding away from them.
Yes, really 30th. the US is that way in infant mortality, height, longevity, and MANY other "quality of life" measures. Scandinavian Countries and Switzerland are typically in the top 10. It is NOT rocket science. A simple google machine interlude will, like a crystal ball, reveal all! Dr. Google is ALL knowing.

[jimjamuser]

I had a friend in Austria who had to wait three months to begin Breast cancer treatment.

I have traveled overseas. I have a daughter who lives now in London. I think the rankings are based on socialistic criteria rather than quality..
Socialistic criteria IS quality - quality of life - a much better yardstick of life worth living than CEO pay or GNP. The goal of a country (any country) should NOT be economic growth or population growth or pollution growth, but, rather people's quality of life growth. Like height, happiness, air quality, average education, health care opportunities, social upward mobility (incidentally the US is currently about 30th behind Estonia).

To put it simply, the "greed is good" mantra of most of our generation has left many of us shallow and purposeless. Societal improvement was the goal for a small % of our generation and they were the pioneers for any possible US future improvement. After the recent US failure to lead and the CV breakdown, the world is looking to more progressive and less greedy countries for leadership. We are in a tailspin!

[jimjamuser]

Then explain why states with strict mask mandates like Pennsylvania are spiking at higher rates than states like Florida. In addition to mask mandates, Pennsylvania has limited indoor dining (none in Philadelphia), as well as many other limitations on businesses and gatherings.
I have explained that ad nauseam in past posts. Please feel free to read those. Thank you very much.

[Kenswing]

I have explained that ad nauseam in past posts. Please feel free to read those. Thank you very much.
Yes you have. And you still continue to do so. Why? Why do you feel the need to preach to us in every single Covid thread? Do you really think you are educating anyone? Do you really think you are changing anyone's minds? Or do you just like hearing yourself type? You already account for 30% of the posts in this thread alone. Just like every other Covid thread. Give it a rest for goodness sakes.

[jimjamuser]

Yes you have. And you still continue to do so. Why? Why do you feel the need to preach to us in every single Covid thread? Do you really think you are educating anyone? Do you really think you are changing anyone's minds? Or do you just like hearing yourself type? You already account for 30% of the posts in this thread alone. Just like every other Covid thread. Give it a rest for goodness sakes.
Thank you, Mr. Swing. It is nice to feel so needed and cared about. I just humbly try to do my part.

[Swoop]

I have explained that ad nauseam in past posts. Please feel free to read those. Thank you very much.
Like your post about Rhode Island ICU’s?!? Sorry, but you just like to pontificate without having actual facts to back up your posts. The last thing I intended to do is search through your old posts to find even more inaccuracies...

[jimjamuser]

Like your post about Rhode Island ICU’s?!? Sorry, but you just like to pontificate without having actual facts to back up your posts. The last thing I intended to do is search through your old posts to find even more inaccuracies...
My post about R.I. ICUs was accurate. They are overcrowded and sending patients elsewhere. What is more to say about that? Very straightforward. Fl. overall is a hot spot that has hospital staff extremely worried. The areas surrounding TV Land are the darkest of red on the national map. I am just talking REALITY. I have been told on this forum, "don't worry - be happy". But, I can't because I do worry. I just had a good friend test positive because they recently came back to TV Land on an Airlines flight. That is NOT "pontification" that is Reality! Our country is overrun with conspiracy theories and misinformation about CV. It does NOT hurt anyone in The Villages for me to try to balance it with truth. WE DO have a serious problem!

[NoMoSno]

My post about R.I. ICUs was accurate. They are overcrowded and sending patients elsewhere. What is more to say about that? Very straightforward. Fl. overall is a hot spot that has hospital staff extremely worried. The areas surrounding TV Land are the darkest of red on the national map. I am just talking REALITY. I have been told on this forum, "don't worry - be happy". But, I can't because I do worry. I just had a good friend test positive because they recently came back to TV Land on an Airlines flight. That is NOT "pontification" that is Reality! Our country is overrun with conspiracy theories and misinformation about CV. It does NOT hurt anyone in The Villages for me to try to balance it with truth. WE DO have a serious problem!
Rhode Island has plenty of ICU capacity.
Some Rhode Island Covid patients are being moved to field hospital (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/02/some-rhode-island-covid-patients-are-being-moved-to-field-hospital.html)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes you have. And you still continue to do so. Why? Why do you feel the need to preach to us in every single Covid thread? Do you really think you are educating anyone? Do you really think you are changing anyone's minds? Or do you just like hearing yourself type? You already account for 30% of the posts in this thread alone. Just like every other Covid thread. Give it a rest for goodness sakes.

Probably because people keep asking. Stop asking these questions, and he'll stop answering them. Just a thought.

[jimjamuser]

Rhode Island has plenty of ICU capacity.
Some Rhode Island Covid patients are being moved to field hospital (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/02/some-rhode-island-covid-patients-are-being-moved-to-field-hospital.html)
That link answered the R.I. question in a way that agreed with me. They would NOT be setting up field hospitals if everything was going smoothly and wonderfully. The 2nd bullet point in the article distinctly says that the CV problem in R.I. is going in the WRONG direction. I DID interpret the problem in R.I. properly as PROVED by your link. So, I did a GOOD thing by reporting that INFO on this forum. Work with me and reality a little bit here!

[NoMoSno]

That link answered the R.I. question in a way that agreed with me. They would NOT be setting up field hospitals if everything was going smoothly and wonderfully. The 2nd bullet point in the article distinctly says that the CV problem in R.I. is going in the WRONG direction. I DID interpret the problem in R.I. properly as PROVED by your link. So, I did a GOOD thing by reporting that INFO on this forum. Work with me and reality a little bit here!
Just posting FACTS about the ICU, which YOU posted incorrectly.
Ironic how a state that has always had strict lock downs and mask mandates is going in the WRONG direction.
By the way RI has ALWAYS had a shortage of hospital beds...

[Swoop]

My post about R.I. ICUs was accurate. They are overcrowded and sending patients elsewhere. What is more to say about that? Very straightforward. Fl. overall is a hot spot that has hospital staff extremely worried. The areas surrounding TV Land are the darkest of red on the national map. I am just talking REALITY. I have been told on this forum, "don't worry - be happy". But, I can't because I do worry. I just had a good friend test positive because they recently came back to TV Land on an Airlines flight. That is NOT "pontification" that is Reality! Our country is overrun with conspiracy theories and misinformation about CV. It does NOT hurt anyone in The Villages for me to try to balance it with truth. WE DO have a serious problem!
Sorry incorrect again. The highest percentage ICU use in Rhode Island is in Kent County at 67% capacity. The other counties are under 50%. The typical operating capacity of ICU’s pre Covid was 70-75%. Kent County has a total of 15 ICU beds, 10 are occupied as of 12/10. There has been a surge of cases in Kent County, the fear is that they may fill those available 5 beds and run out of capacity.

[Tblue]

Yes, really 30th. the US is that way in infant mortality, height, longevity, and MANY other "quality of life" measures. Scandinavian Countries and Switzerland are typically in the top 10. It is NOT rocket science. A simple google machine interlude will, like a crystal ball, reveal all! Dr. Google is ALL knowing.

I am a retired health care provider, my son is a physician in Canada, my daughter and wife are RNs. I have been to 24 countries. If I get sick or require surgery I want to be here in the USA. As brought up before why do the very wealthy from other counties come here to be treated or get their surgery. So feel free to get you health care in Scandinavian Countries or Switzerland, I will get my health care here.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Sorry incorrect again. The highest percentage ICU use in Rhode Island is in Kent County at 67% capacity. The other counties are under 50%. The typical operating capacity of ICU’s pre Covid was 70-75%. Kent County has a total of 15 ICU beds, 10 are occupied, as of 12/7. There has been a surge of cases in Kent County, the fear is that they may fill those available 5 beds and run out of capacity.

A more pressing fear would be - what if it's near capacity and some sudden tragedy hits - like a multi-vehicle accident that sends a few people to the ER? Who gets the ICU bed, and who gets put on a rolling cot out in the hallway and possibly bleeds to death?

[Swoop]

A more pressing fear would be - what if it's near capacity and some sudden tragedy hits - like a multi-vehicle accident that sends a few people to the ER? Who gets the ICU bed, and who gets put on a rolling cot out in the hallway and possibly bleeds to death?
ICU’s typically operate at 70-75% capacity, that is what hospitals consider “optimal occupancy”.
What would you like to see? ICU’s with 100% available capacity? If that were the case who would pay the staff to not work? You sound like the governor of NY who complained about how many ventilators he needed. When in actuality he didn’t even need what he already had...

[Northwoods]

Asymptomatic people who test positive for CV are not necessarily contagious.

Calling an incidence of a positive test a “case” is highly misleading, for it implies illness or impairment, when many people suffer no symptoms at all.

Why bother to find out if we have this new bug if we feel fine and have no symptoms of illness.

It’s high time to boot out the BS regarding CV, beginning with the fib that “testing positive” means there’s another “case of CV ” that must be reported to the public.

Is it that THE daily tally reports on “cases” help keep the public brainwashed and compliant?

For the many who continue to accept as true what they get from television and from other mainstream media regarding CV, thinking that, well, “those news reporters wouldn’t be lying,” I have this to say "if you think the mainstream news delivers the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, you had better think again".

Please show me the science where asymptomatic people are not necessarily contagious.

I'm assuming you're speaking from experience?? Let me tell you about my experience.

In my social group, there have been 8 people that recently have tested positive for COVID. Four had minor symptoms. Two had significant symptoms but didn't require hospitalization. Two are in the hospital. One is on a ventilator.

Note that this group was cautious. There was no travel.

The mainstream media rhetoric is irrelevant to me. But the fact that two of my friends are in the hospital and their outcome is unknown is very relevant to me.

I speak from experience. SO hopefully you bring more to the table than just... your opinion.

[golfing eagles]

I am a retired health care provider, my son is a physician in Canada, my daughter and wife are RNs. I have been to 24 countries. If I get sick or require surgery I want to be here in the USA. As brought up before why do the very wealthy from other counties come here to be treated or get their surgery. So feel free to get you health care in Scandinavian Countries or Switzerland, I will get my health care here.

Amen to that, despite the BOGUS 30th in the world ranking by the WHO.

[golfing eagles]

Socialistic criteria IS quality - quality of life - a much better yardstick of life worth living .....

Just like Venezuela??? :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

[jacksonbrown]

Amen to that, despite the BOGUS 30th in the world ranking by the WHO.

The discredited WHO? Please!

You tell 'em GE. :bigbow:

[golfing eagles]

A more pressing fear would be - what if it's near capacity and some sudden tragedy hits - like a multi-vehicle accident that sends a few people to the ER? Who gets the ICU bed, and who gets put on a rolling cot out in the hallway and possibly bleeds to death?

I've never seen a situation such as that. We had 32 ICU beds and they were generally 100% full. When there were patients in the ER who needed ICU and the attending physician was reluctant to transfer his patients to the floor, I would go around both ICU's and always find at least 10 beds I could free up. In reality, the numbers don't tell the whole story unless you know how they are derived, just like that BOGUS 30th in the world ranking, which I've explained a dozen times over the last year.

[jimjamuser]

Just posting FACTS about the ICU, which YOU posted incorrectly.
Ironic how a state that has always had strict lock downs and mask mandates is going in the WRONG direction.
By the way RI has ALWAYS had a shortage of hospital beds...
Remember the expression," not seeing the forest for the trees. Think of R.I. hospitals as ONLY the trees. Then forget R.I. altogether. My point was about the FOREST - in this case, ALL the hospitals in ALL the states of the US. Hospitals are ALL, ALL, ALL worried about overcrowding because of the STUPIDITY of the US citizens and their stubbornness and their selfishness in TRAVELING over the Thanksgiving holidays despite DESPERATE CDC warnings to the contrary. This caused RECORD cases. Record hospitalization and record DEATHS recently. More deaths in ONE day than all the US combat deaths during WW2 !!!!!!! What more can I say to convince people that we need emergency ACTION against the PLAGUE. This means things like no indoor anything like restaurants, bars, churches and etc. It means NO TRAVEL for Christmas. What would Jesus do to save people's lives over Christmas this year?

[jimjamuser]

I am a retired health care provider, my son is a physician in Canada, my daughter and wife are RNs. I have been to 24 countries. If I get sick or require surgery I want to be here in the USA. As brought up before why do the very wealthy from other counties come here to be treated or get their surgery. So feel free to get you health care in Scandinavian Countries or Switzerland, I will get my health care here.
Fine if you are in the upper 1%, But I am not. So I would do much better in Scandanavian countries for MY health care. ( and 99% of the people are like me). Mr. Guiliani's care PROVED that today as the facts came out. His SPECIAL CV COCKTAIL of drugs is NOT available to Joe ordinary Bozo in the great US of A. And deep down you know that I am correct!

[jimjamuser]

A more pressing fear would be - what if it's near capacity and some sudden tragedy hits - like a multi-vehicle accident that sends a few people to the ER? Who gets the ICU bed, and who gets put on a rolling cot out in the hallway and possibly bleeds to death?
Absolutely, and the Holiday season COULD(?) be the straw that breaks the hospital's back!

[jimjamuser]

ICU’s typically operate at 70-75% capacity, that is what hospitals consider “optimal occupancy”.
What would you like to see? ICU’s with 100% available capacity? If that were the case who would pay the staff to not work? You sound like the governor of NY who complained about how many ventilators he needed. When in actuality he didn’t even need what he already had...
The boy scouts motto is "be prepared". Also, hindsight is 20/20.....even in 2020

[jimjamuser]

Please show me the science where asymptomatic people are not necessarily contagious.

I'm assuming you're speaking from experience?? Let me tell you about my experience.

In my social group, there have been 8 people that recently have tested positive for COVID. Four had minor symptoms. Two had significant symptoms but didn't require hospitalization. Two are in the hospital. One is on a ventilator.

Note that this group was cautious. There was no travel.

The mainstream media rhetoric is irrelevant to me. But the fact that two of my friends are in the hospital and their outcome is unknown is very relevant to me.

I speak from experience. SO hopefully you bring more to the table than just... your opinion.
Thanks for sharing. That proves what I have been saying that " TV Land - we have a problem". Time to start fighting it - not going out to bars and doing "normal things".

[TCNY61]

My mother in law is in a rehab facility. She recently had to visit a hospital for a procedure. The rehab tested her when she came back (rapid test) and tested positive for Covid. Even though she had no symptoms for a few days they made her stay in the Covid ward in the facility with a roommate that also tested positive. They gave her two of the longer tests (came out negative both times) before they would let her exit the covid ward.


I have heard and read many times that the COVID test is not conclusive and in many cases result in false POSITIVE readings. So, if you get a false positive and have no symptoms, they have you scared and quarantined.
Here is something I read recently, and I am interested in what the "experts" on here have to say about it. I am sure that some will say that it's not valid, but even if so I think it is something to consider. Believe or scoff, your choice.

"....people can be exposed to virus, and mount a simple innate immune response and never know any differently. When you test these people with very low viral loads, who are not sick, you can find the viral RNA code that is used to “diagnose” if you cycle enough times. ....... Labcorp cycles at least 40 times to detect viral genome fragments. The PCR test was never intended for diagnosis of infection but as a qualitative test for presence of parts of a virus genome. .. there has been some confusion circulating the net about what the inventor Kary Mullis had said about that. But we walk daily with people who have any number of parts of killer virus or bacterial genomes which one could pick up with a PCR test if one had the specific test for it."

"When it comes to COVID, the presence of viral particles picked up by the PCR technique does not and has not been quantitatively linked to an active “symptomatic” infection. It simply cannot be so, because infection threshold as a result of viral load is different for each patient. It turns out, if you “cycle” over around 25 times, the false positivity of COVID infection starts getting very high."


"..the PCR test is used to amplify small amount of genetic material so as to recognize patterns of DNA by “cycling.” (Also, for RNA virus, the RNA is converted to DNA in order to be detected, it’s just the way the test works)....It works because if you amplify and cycle enough times to “grow” legitimate DNA fragments, you get something with with a fair amount of specificity. What is becoming more and more apparent is that the PCR test was not designed as a diagnostic tool for infection, and really cannot function as one without having a huge amount of false positives, period."

[Tblue]

Fine if you are in the upper 1%, But I am not. So I would do much better in Scandanavian countries for MY health care. ( and 99% of the people are like me). Mr. Guiliani's care PROVED that today as the facts came out. His SPECIAL CV COCKTAIL of drugs is NOT available to Joe ordinary Bozo in the great US of A. And deep down you know that I am correct!

Somehow it seems you expect those with millions to receive the same health care as Joe ordinary? A very nice thought in a perfect world but we live in a real world, and simply put if he can afford it why can’t Giuliani have better health care? I look at it as flying first class, there is a minimum all receive, put sitting in the front of plane has a few perks, pay for it if you like. Deep down you know that I am correct.

[Swoop]

Remember the expression," not seeing the forest for the trees. Think of R.I. hospitals as ONLY the trees. Then forget R.I. altogether. My point was about the FOREST - in this case, ALL the hospitals in ALL the states of the US. Hospitals are ALL, ALL, ALL worried about overcrowding because of the STUPIDITY of the US citizens and their stubbornness and their selfishness in TRAVELING over the Thanksgiving holidays despite DESPERATE CDC warnings to the contrary. This caused RECORD cases. Record hospitalization and record DEATHS recently. More deaths in ONE day than all the US combat deaths during WW2 !!!!!!! What more can I say to convince people that we need emergency ACTION against the PLAGUE. This means things like no indoor anything like restaurants, bars, churches and etc. It means NO TRAVEL for Christmas. What would Jesus do to save people's lives over Christmas this year?
“TRAVELING over the Thanksgiving holidays despite DESPERATE CDC warnings to the contrary. This caused RECORD cases. Record hospitalization and record DEATHS recently. More deaths in ONE day than all the US combat deaths during WW2 !!!!!!!”

I must have missed something, over 400,000 people died in the US from Covid in one day?!?!?!?

[Justus]

I have recently stopped contributing to discussion on this subject. Why? It has become a tiresome venue for at least one individual to espouse pejorative views on our Country's health care system which, despite constant criticism from uninformed sources, is arguably the most envied in the world. Doctors and hospitals here treat thousands of people - both wealthy and impoverished - from countries whose socialist systems are so overburdened and/or inadequate, they are either turned away or put in waiting lines so long, they often die or become terminal before receiving care.
With regard to Covid...for as many medical professionals who are lockstep with Fauci's everchanging mandates, there are thousands and thousands, both nationally and internationally, who remain vehemently opposed. They have been effectively silenced or berated, as has been much opposing opinion herein.
Change is a simple solution to discontent. Relocate to any other socialist country. Problem solved!