When will the vaccines have an impact on Covid 19

[John41]

The Pfizer Covid 19 vaccine rollout begins tomorrow in the US. According to one of the developers of the Pfizer vaccine it will be next Summer before the world is back to pre Covid 19 normal. UGH!!! another year unless vaccinated or already have antibodies.
—————————————-

At least 30% percent of the world will have to be vaccinated to have an impact on the spread of the novel coronavirus pandemic, the biotech firm that developed one of the world's major vaccine candidates said Wednesday.

"But, we will only get a full effect if we reach about 60 to 70% of people," said Dr. Ugur Sahin, the CEO and co-founder of BioNTech said, adding that he expects this to be achieved by the end of next summer.

[blueash]

The question you asked is when will it have an impact and the answer is with the first dose given to the first patient. And more of an impact when the second person gets an initial dose. With each additional person who gets some protection we all get some protection. It is the accumulation of all these small incremental benefits that finally helps a community or a nation reach herd immunity. But it all starts with one person's inoculation which helps that person and everyone else.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The question you asked is when will it have an impact and the answer is with the first dose given to the first patient. And more of an impact when the second person gets an initial dose. With each additional person who gets some protection we all get some protection. It is the accumulation of all these small incremental benefits that finally helps a community or a nation reach herd immunity. But it all starts with one person's inoculation which helps that person and everyone else.

...and this herd immunity is only for this incarnation of the virus. If the virus mutates, the vaccine might - or might not - protect anyone against the new mutation of it. We really won't know for sure until next year, whether or not it will mutate and require a new vaccine to protect against the mutation.

[jimjamuser]

...and this herd immunity is only for this incarnation of the virus. If the virus mutates, the vaccine might - or might not - protect anyone against the new mutation of it. We really won't know for sure until next year, whether or not it will mutate and require a new vaccine to protect against the mutation.
The vaccines are a fascinating, deep, and broad story with more questions than black and white answers. I find Pulitzer Prize winner Lori Garrett to be my "go-to" individual as a source of knowledge. She correctly predicted this Plague several years ago in her book. One question that comes up is the difficultly of delivery for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines due to expensive refrigeration requirements. The JnJ vaccine is on schedule to be available sometime in January. It (I believe) has larger phase 3 volunteer numbers than the Pfizer vaccine - and other advantages. Garrett stated that Pfizer may be having trouble supplying the number of doses that they originally claimed - Moderna also because they are both based on the same system - requiring extreme cold storage - and needing the same raw materials in manufacturing. The JnJ vaccine uses a different approach so has several advantages. So, like I said - more questions than answers, which is to be expected with a completely new "novel" virus.

[retiredguy123]

Am I the only one who hates that the news programs are constantly showing someone getting stuck with a needle?

I wish they would stop that.

[Byte1]

As far as I am concerned, as soon as they start distributing it here, I'm going back to normal. I always wash my hands during the day, due to my travels overseas. I do not like to get physically close to people anyway so I always have social distanced. BUT, I have no intention of wearing a mask anywhere, unless it is mandated by a legitimate law. This is one step in the direction of giving us our freedom back.
Thanks to a great leader cutting the red tape and getting this pushed forward, we have a vaccine in months rather than years. The whole world is better for it, because the vaccine would not have been released anywhere else this fast either if not for the leadership here in the U.S. of A. Argue all you wish, but you know it's fact.

[Byte1]

Am I the only one who hates that the news programs are constantly showing someone getting stuck with a needle?

I wish they would stop that.

Why? Prime time TV shows much worse gore. A needle shot doesn't even produce any blood. Guess it doesn't bother me because I have given shots for years/decades and still do so.

[JimJohnson]

The Pfizer Covid 19 vaccine rollout begins tomorrow in the US. According to one of the developers of the Pfizer vaccine it will be next Summer before the world is back to pre Covid 19 normal. UGH!!! another year unless vaccinated or already have antibodies.
—————————————-

At least 30% percent of the world will have to be vaccinated to have an impact on the spread of the novel coronavirus pandemic, the biotech firm that developed one of the world's major vaccine candidates said Wednesday. The

"But, we will only get a full effect if we reach about 60 to 70% of people," said Dr. Ugur Sahin, the CEO and co-founder of BioNTech said, adding that he expects this to be achieved by the end of next summer.

For many, it will show benefits immediately, but for those that think it is a Hoax, mid summer should show a slow down in deaths for them through the herd immunity of the believers in science.

[coffeebean]

Am I the only one who hates that the news programs are constantly showing someone getting stuck with a needle?

I wish they would stop that.

I find it extremely comforting to watch the injection process of a vaccine that will eventually give us back our normal lives.

[chet2020]

...and this herd immunity is only for this incarnation of the virus. If the virus mutates, the vaccine might - or might not - protect anyone against the new mutation of it. We really won't know for sure until next year, whether or not it will mutate and require a new vaccine to protect against the mutation.

The virus has already mutated hundreds of times. As a result of the vaccine, our antibodies will attack the virus spike proteins. The spike proteins are how the virus attaches to our cells to produce more virus. So the good news is that if there is a significant mutation to the spike protein, our antibodies may not recognize it, but it may also render the virus harmless. This is why there is optimism that the vaccine will staying power.

[retiredguy123]

I find it extremely comforting to watch the injection process of a vaccine that will eventually give us back our normal lives.
So, how many injections do I need to watch on TV to get immunity?

[graciegirl]

When I receive the Pfizer vaccine, when I finish getting both shots of the series and wait for the required length of time for my body to achieve immunity. Then the pandemic is over for me and mine. I can walk among the peoples of the world again, whether they have it or not.

I have already received shots for the seasonal flu and have been immunized against Herpes Zoster and Pneumonia (two kinds). I cannot get those diseases and give them to anyone.

If there were infants in our family I would be revaccinated for the childhood diseases, especially Pertussis, (whooping cough).

[Stu from NYC]

When I receive the Pfizer vaccine, when I finish getting both shots of the series and wait for the required length of time for my body to achieve immunity. Then the pandemic is over for me and mine. I can walk among the peoples of the world again, whether they have it or not.

I have already received shots for the seasonal flu and have been immunized against Herpes Zoster and Pneumonia (two kinds). I cannot get those diseases and give them to anyone.

If there were infants in our family I would be revaccinated for the childhood diseases, especially Pertussis, (whooping cough).

That is our feeling as well, we can burn our masks

[Stu from NYC]

So, how many injections do I need to watch on TV to get immunity?

That is what fast forward is for

[billethkid]

When I receive the Pfizer vaccine, when I finish getting both shots of the series and wait for the required length of time for my body to achieve immunity. Then the pandemic is over for me and mine. I can walk among the peoples of the world again, whether they have it or not.

I have already received shots for the seasonal flu and have been immunized against Herpes Zoster and Pneumonia (two kinds). I cannot get those diseases and give them to anyone.

If there were infants in our family I would be revaccinated for the childhood diseases, especially Pertussis, (whooping cough).


Our position as well!

[jimjamuser]

As far as I am concerned, as soon as they start distributing it here, I'm going back to normal. I always wash my hands during the day, due to my travels overseas. I do not like to get physically close to people anyway so I always have social distanced. BUT, I have no intention of wearing a mask anywhere, unless it is mandated by a legitimate law. This is one step in the direction of giving us our freedom back.
Thanks to a great leader cutting the red tape and getting this pushed forward, we have a vaccine in months rather than years. The whole world is better for it, because the vaccine would not have been released anywhere else this fast either if not for the leadership here in the U.S. of A. Argue all you wish, but you know it's fact.
The Pfizer vaccine is just one of many. The Moderna vaccine is like a sister vaccine to the Pfizer, very similar. There are about 3 more vaccines that might be sold in the US. One of them may end up as the World standard. It is too early to tell. Other countries have their own internally produced vaccines. China and Russia have been giving out doses to their citizens for weeks. Even Australia has one under development.

The 3rd world needs a vaccine that can be stored at room temperature so that leaves out Pfizer and Moderna. The JnJ vaccine coming out in January is a room temperature type vaccine. It could be the best seller. There are more vaccines that I am not aware of.

[jimjamuser]

That is our feeling as well, we can burn our masks
That IS a nice hope, a nice dream. But, reality is saying otherwise.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

As far as I am concerned, as soon as they start distributing it here, I'm going back to normal. I always wash my hands during the day, due to my travels overseas. I do not like to get physically close to people anyway so I always have social distanced. BUT, I have no intention of wearing a mask anywhere, unless it is mandated by a legitimate law. This is one step in the direction of giving us our freedom back.
Thanks to a great leader cutting the red tape and getting this pushed forward, we have a vaccine in months rather than years. The whole world is better for it, because the vaccine would not have been released anywhere else this fast either if not for the leadership here in the U.S. of A. Argue all you wish, but you know it's fact.

I'd be a bit careful about that. The vaccine is going to require two doses. About a month apart. The first will be about 50% effective in preventing the vaccine and the second about 95% effective. I'll go back to normal after the second dose.

[stanley]

There are more vaccines that I am not aware of.


:1rotfl:

[skip0358]

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!

[Byte1]

I'd be a bit careful about that. The vaccine is going to require two doses. About a month apart. The first will be about 50% effective in preventing the vaccine and the second about 95% effective. I'll go back to normal after the second dose.

I guess I should have mentioned the "two" doses instead of assuming that others knew what I was thinking. I probably should have learned by now that others can not read my mind, even though my spouse assures me that she can. :icon_wink:

[Byte1]

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!

As they say, NO vaccination is a 100% effective. The flu shot is only 30-60% effective. Supposedly, this COVID vaccination is about 95% effective, making it one of the most amazing accomplishments of the century....IF it turns out to be a valid statement after mass inoculations are behind us.

[jimjamuser]

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!
Well, It IS being given out on an emergency use only basis. And they EXPECT symptoms to occur. And some may be moderate, but it is better than taking a chance on getting the full, terrible effects of the actual Pandemic. It is a calculated risk to society worth taking.

[jimjamuser]

As they say, NO vaccination is a 100% effective. The flu shot is only 30-60% effective. Supposedly, this COVID vaccination is about 95% effective, making it one of the most amazing accomplishments of the century....IF it turns out to be a valid statement after mass inoculations are behind us.
Effective does NOT mean a once in a lifetime vaccine. It just means that in their trial population (40,000 I believe) it has given a degree of protection against the worst outcomes of CV like hospitalization and death for 95% of the infected trial volunteers. The time-lapse for protection might be for 3 months, 3 years, or maybe (? unlikely) for a lifetime. Too early to say.

[blueash]

Effective does NOT mean a once in a lifetime vaccine. It just means that in their trial population (40,000 I believe) it has given a degree of protection against the worst outcomes of CV like hospitalization and death for 95% of the infected trial volunteers. The time-lapse for protection might be for 3 months, 3 years, or maybe (? unlikely) for a lifetime. Too early to say.

You are mistaken in your explanation of how the effectiveness of the vaccine was calculated. In the Pfizer vaccine study there was ~95% protection against clinical COVID meaning the patient was ill with COVID whether mild moderate or severe. It did not look at subclinical disease so some vaccinated persons might have caught COVID but not developed any symptoms but still be capable of spreading the virus to others.

The other way to express this is that for every 20 people who get sick with COVID, if they'd gotten the vaccine 19 would not have gotten sick. You are correct that the duration of immunity from being vaccinated is unknown. It will be important to understand that ongoing post-vaccination studies will partly answer that in the next year. One small factor is that while there is lots of COVID in the community, those who have been vaccinated may encounter the wild virus which will act as an immune booster for them. Once there is far less disease circulating that natural booster from exposure will disappear and later follow up studies may show a shorter duration of protection than the earlier studies.

This happened with chicken pox vaccine which when first offered seemed to be giving extremely long protection without breakthrough cases in those vaccinated children. But they were going to school with lots of unvaccinated kids and being exposed to wild chicken pox. Once almost every child was protected there began to be seen more breakthrough cases and a booster dose was recommended. That plan has worked very well.

[coffeebean]

When I receive the Pfizer vaccine, when I finish getting both shots of the series and wait for the required length of time for my body to achieve immunity. Then the pandemic is over for me and mine. I can walk among the peoples of the world again, whether they have it or not.

I have already received shots for the seasonal flu and have been immunized against Herpes Zoster and Pneumonia (two kinds). I cannot get those diseases and give them to anyone.

If there were infants in our family I would be revaccinated for the childhood diseases, especially Pertussis, (whooping cough).

Just wondering why adults would consider getting the childhood diseases vaccination again. Aren't the children themselves required to be vaccinated against those diseases before they can attend school?

[Get real]

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

[Get real]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpT4wPuUYAAKhmZ.jpg

[Bill14564]

<cartoon removed>



Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Unfortunately, it would take several paragraphs to explain all that is misleading about this picture. But in short:

Immune? Not on the day of vaccination and probably not until several days after the second dose. So true, not immune as the needle goes into your arm but on the path to immunity.

Mask? The vaccine prevents you from contracting the disease but possibly not from becoming infected. Masks protect those around you from the infection that you spread to them. Since you can still become infected and since others can still become sick, masks are still necessary.

Manufacturer Liability? This might already be a standard thing in the US. If not, the manufacturer would likely be happy spending a few more years on development and testing. We are at a current rate of about 400,000 deaths per year; would you rather hold the manufacturer harmless or continue to bet you or your loved ones won't be in next group of 400,000?

Why did I do this? Personal choice and a wise bet.

[biker1]

The control group gets the placebo. They won't have adverse reactions.

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

[coffeebean]

I'd be a bit careful about that. The vaccine is going to require two doses. About a month apart. The first will be about 50% effective in preventing the vaccine and the second about 95% effective. I'll go back to normal after the second dose.

I heard on MSM that the Pfizer vaccine has a 95% efficacy for preventing infection and 100% efficacy for preventing severe Covid illness. So....I understand that to mean that the 5% who are vulnerable to Covid illness will not ever have severe illness. That's good enough for me.

[coffeebean]

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!

Did you have minor cases of the flu, pneumonia and shingles after receiving the vaccines?

[coffeebean]

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

Covid has been very dangerous to over 300,000 Americans who have died and many more Americans who will endure long lasting effects, and maybe lasting for the rest of their lives. When the vaccine is available to me, I'll be rolling up my sleeve so I don't have to worry any more about contracting a potentially deadly virus.

[coffeebean]

Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Unfortunately, it would take several paragraphs to explain all that is misleading about this picture. But in short:

Immune? Not on the day of vaccination and probably not until several days after the second dose. So true, not immune as the needle goes into your arm but on the path to immunity.

Mask? The vaccine prevents you from contracting the disease but possibly not from becoming infected. Masks protect those around you from the infection that you spread to them. Since you can still become infected and since others can still become sick, masks are still necessary.

Manufacturer Liability? This might already be a standard thing in the US. If not, the manufacturer would likely be happy spending a few more years on development and testing. We are at a current rate of about 400,000 deaths per year; would you rather hold the manufacturer harmless or continue to bet you or your loved ones won't be in next group of 400,000?

Why did I do this? Personal choice and a wise bet.

I will be taking the risk to be vaccinated. I will not worry anymore about the health of others around me. They could also take the same risk I will be taking and get themselves vaccinated.

Bottom line, when I'm fully immune at 95% and 100% of not having severe disease, my mask comes OFF and will remain OFF. To those who are not able to take the vaccine, sorry but just stay away from me because I will NOT be wearing a mask.

[stanley]

Bottom line, when I'm fully immune at 95% and 100% of not having severe disease, my mask comes OFF and will remain OFF. To those who are not able to take the vaccine, sorry but just stay away from me because I will NOT be wearing a mask.

The one's opting to not wear masks now will be the same one's that won't get the vaccine. You will never know.

[jimjamuser]

You are mistaken in your explanation of how the effectiveness of the vaccine was calculated. In the Pfizer vaccine study there was ~95% protection against clinical COVID meaning the patient was ill with COVID whether mild moderate or severe. It did not look at subclinical disease so some vaccinated persons might have caught COVID but not developed any symptoms but still be capable of spreading the virus to others.

The other way to express this is that for every 20 people who get sick with COVID, if they'd gotten the vaccine 19 would not have gotten sick. You are correct that the duration of immunity from being vaccinated is unknown. It will be important to understand that ongoing post-vaccination studies will partly answer that in the next year. One small factor is that while there is lots of COVID in the community, those who have been vaccinated may encounter the wild virus which will act as an immune booster for them. Once there is far less disease circulating that natural booster from exposure will disappear and later follow up studies may show a shorter duration of protection than the earlier studies.

This happened with chicken pox vaccine which when first offered seemed to be giving extremely long protection without breakthrough cases in those vaccinated children. But they were going to school with lots of unvaccinated kids and being exposed to wild chicken pox. Once almost every child was protected there began to be seen more breakthrough cases and a booster dose was recommended. That plan has worked very well.
Thank you!

[jimjamuser]

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.
What a disservice to "friends"!

[Bill14564]

I will be taking the risk to be vaccinated. I will not worry anymore about the health of others around me. They could also take the same risk I will be taking and get themselves vaccinated.

Bottom line, when I'm fully immune at 95% and 100% of not having severe disease, my mask comes OFF and will remain OFF. To those who are not able to take the vaccine, sorry but just stay away from me because I will NOT be wearing a mask.

Many people are saying that today - just stay away if you don't want to get sick. Many others are ferociously criticizing them for not caring about those around them. All of a sudden when YOU are safe things change?

I know my place in line is far behind many on this board. I would like a little consideration then, just as I am being considerate now.

[Velvet]

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

Can I presume you won’t drive a car either because it is recent technology relative to horses etc.

[graciegirl]

Am I the only one who hates that the news programs are constantly showing someone getting stuck with a needle?

I wish they would stop that.

It is not so bad at all. I think of this vaccine as an invitation for all of our bodies protective elements to armor up. It truly is an enormous victory from a lot of very dedicated and extremely smart people who stayed focused and achieved this miracle in an amazingly short time.

I would far rather look at that jab than listen to the jabber from the mouthy politicians and read the forgone conclusions written by the opinionated writers.

[coffeebean]

many people are saying that today - just stay away if you don't want to get sick. Many others are ferociously criticizing them for not caring about those around them. all of a sudden when you are safe things change?

i know my place in line is far behind many on this board. I would like a little consideration then, just as i am being considerate now.

Yup! I'm going to do my part for our country to reach herd immunity. That, to me, is the most patriotic thing anyone can do. Anyone who is able to be vaccinated but chooses not to be vaccinated is not my concern anymore. Sorry.

Those who have to wait for the vaccine will just have to continue to wear masks and social distance themselves from others. That is what I plan to do until I'm vaccinated and immune then, my mask comes OFF for good! I will not ever feel the need to protect others who fail to protect themselves. Those folks who have refused to wear masks since this pandemic began will not be a concern for me anymore. Why should anyone do that once they are immune?

[Bill14564]

Yup! I'm going to do my part for our country to reach herd immunity. That, to me, is the most patriotic thing anyone can do. Anyone who is able to be vaccinated but chooses not to be vaccinated is not my concern anymore. Sorry.

Those who have to wait for the vaccine will just have to continue to wear masks and social distance themselves from others. That is what I plan to do until I'm vaccinated. All bets are off when I'm immune. My mask comes for good!

Paraphrasing: "I feel I am safe therefore I will do nothing that inconveniences me. I don't care how it affects others, that's their problem."

You don't even understand how that statement makes you exactly the same as the never-maskers today. Very sad.

[coffeebean]

Paraphrasing: "I feel I am safe therefore I will do nothing that inconveniences me. I don't care how it affects others, that's their problem."

You don't even understand how that statement makes you exactly the same as the never-maskers today. Very sad.

I do not agree at all with your paraphrased statement. As I said earlier, I will be assuming some risk by being vaccinated. There are benefits to taking that risk and that is the ability to go back to a normal life. I will be helping this country reach a safe herd immunity. What about this do you not understand?

[Byte1]

Get the vaccination or don't get it. Your choice. Same as with the Flu shot, some get it and some don't. There will always be illnesses, some fatal. Once the vaccine is available here, I will take off the mask permanently whether I get the shot or not.

I did read some crazy article where someone said that the gov. was thinking of putting markers in the shot so that others would be able to tell if someone had the vaccination or not. It was to be able to verify the vaccination for travel purposes, etc. The area of the shot would supposedly be visible to the naked eye. Sounds kind of far fetched to me, but knowing how some folks want a gov nanny to protect them, I guess it is not totally impossible to believe that some could come up with something this ridiculous. Just another conspiracy theory, I hope.

[Bill14564]

I do not agree at all with your paraphrased statement. As I said earlier, I will be taking the risk of being vaccinated. There are benefits to taking that risk and that is the ability to go back to a normal life. I will be helping this country reach a safe herd immunity. What about this do you not understand?

You are helping yourself and the country overall by taking the vaccine. Good for you, I will be doing the same.

Where we disagree is your attitude that once YOU are immune you can stop wearing the mask. Even though you might infect those of us less fortunate than you that have to wait longer for the vaccine, YOU are immune so the rest of us can fend for ourselves.

Today there are many people who are either immune or young enough to expect minor symptoms. Using your logic, why should they wear masks? They have already helped their country by becoming immune or they are currently helping their country by attempting to become immune and adding to herd immunity. One of the benefits of taking that risk should be the ability to go back to a normal life. Sure, they can still infect both of us but that is not their problem, they have taken the risk to help their country and now they should get the benefits of taking that risk.

I will understand your position better when you start advocating that anyone that has already had the virus and anyone under 40 can stop wearing masks today.

[Seve1]

First of all it is not a vaccine by the traditional terms. It is a bioengineered compound right out of science fiction. It contains a messenger RNA protein that goes into our cells and tells the cells to make a replica strand of the virus that activates our immune system. Bill Gates and other big techies have their hands all over this. There are also some markers that are injected along with the messenger RNA protein to “protect it” We are all being experimented on.

[Two Bills]

First of all it is not a vaccine by the traditional terms. It is a bioengineered compound right out of science fiction. It contains a messenger RNA protein that goes into our cells and tells the cells to make a replica strand of the virus that activates our immune system. Bill Gates and other big techies have their hands all over this. There are also some markers that are injected along with the messenger RNA protein to “protect it” We are all being experimented on.

Total Bovine excrement!:ohdear:

[graciegirl]

First of all it is not a vaccine by the traditional terms. It is a bioengineered compound right out of science fiction. It contains a messenger RNA protein that goes into our cells and tells the cells to make a replica strand of the virus that activates our immune system. Bill Gates and other big techies have their hands all over this. There are also some markers that are injected along with the messenger RNA protein to “protect it” We are all being experimented on.

Sir/madam. You are misinformed. I completely concur with Two Bills response to this post.

[blueash]

First of all it is not a vaccine by the traditional terms. It is a bioengineered compound right out of science fiction. It contains a messenger RNA protein that goes into our cells and tells the cells to make a replica strand of the virus that activates our immune system. Bill Gates and other big techies have their hands all over this. There are also some markers that are injected along with the messenger RNA protein to “protect it” We are all being experimented on.

As you have earlier this month told us you will follow the COVID advise given by the Governor of Florida, but not accept the word of the WHO or Dr. Fauci, I present for your edification the words of Mr. DeSantis on whether or not you should accept the mRNA vaccine:
"This is a game changer," DeSantis said during a news conference at Tampa General Hospital. "It's a great day for the United States. It's a great day for the state of Florida...This is a really, really significant milestone in terms of combating the coronavirus pandemic,"

There you have it from your go to authority on Covid control. Get the shot.

Please explain, with links to evidence, what Bill Gates did that may make this vaccine unsafe. Real links to evidence, not just the ravings of people or locker room talk. The outright slander of Mr Gates by people has amazed me. Microchips. No conspiracy theory should be accepted without evidence. Spreading dangerous rumors which may result in deaths is inhuman and perhaps criminal. If people refuse this and other vaccines because they read on the internet that an evil genius is going to control your life with a super secret invisible technology that he will slip into your Covid shot without anyone knowing about it, and then they or their loved ones or even complete strangers become sick and die because we don't get Covid under control. Those who spread such garbage rumors will hopefully answer before their God for those deaths.

Or maybe Gates has bought off DeSantis or already has gotten him microchipped and is controlling him with his PlayStation.

[Bucco]

It is not so bad at all. I think of this vaccine as an invitation for all of our bodies protective elements to armor up. It truly is an enormous victory from a lot of very dedicated and extremely smart people who stayed focused and achieved this miracle in an amazingly short time.

I would far rather look at that jab than listen to the jabber from the mouthy politicians and read the forgone conclusions written by the opinionated writers.


Certainly did not happen overnight and kudos to all the research even before we knew about COVID19.

"How could scientists race out COVID-19 vaccines so fast without cutting corners? A head start helped — over a decade of behind-the-scenes research that had new vaccine technology poised for a challenge just as the coronavirus erupted.

“The speed is a reflection of years of work that went before,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, the top U.S. infectious disease expert, told The Associated Press. “That’s what the public has to understand.”

"Creating vaccines and having results from rigorous studies less than a year after the world discovered a never-before-seen disease is incredible, cutting years off normal development. But the two U.S. frontrunners are made in a way that promises speedier development may become the norm — especially if they prove to work long-term as well as early testing suggests."

Years of research laid groundwork for speedy COVID-19 vaccines | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/years-of-research-laid-groundwork-for-speedy-covid-19-vaccines)

[blueash]

I do not agree at all with your paraphrased statement. As I said earlier, I will be assuming some risk by being vaccinated. There are benefits to taking that risk and that is the ability to go back to a normal life. I will be helping this country reach a safe herd immunity. What about this do you not understand?

You are assuming that after you are vaccinated you are not going to get Covid and therefore you cannot spread it to others. Wearing a mask as you are well aware is to protect others from your potentially infectious material. If getting the vaccine 100% meant you could not have Covid in your breath droplets then your position of not needing a mask would be justified. However the best vaccine is 95% effective against clinical disease and of unknown but certainly below 100% against sub-clinical disease. So you have a 5% risk of not being protected from Covid even after you complete your shots and additional risk of spreading Covid if you are sub-clinically infected.

That is why people are writing that it is better to continue to wear your mask even after you get your shots until we reach the point when Covid is not widely circulating.

[tvbound]

Please explain, with links to evidence, what Bill Gates did that may make this vaccine unsafe. Real links to evidence, not just the ravings of people or locker room talk. The outright slander of Mr Gates by people has amazed me. Microchips. No conspiracy theory should be accepted without evidence. Spreading dangerous rumors which may result in deaths is inhuman and perhaps criminal. If people refuse this and other vaccines because they read on the internet that an evil genius is going to control your life with a super secret invisible technology that he will slip into your Covid shot without anyone knowing about it, and then they or their loved ones or even complete strangers become sick and die because we don't get Covid under control. Those who spread such garbage rumors will hopefully answer before their God for those deaths.

Or maybe Gates has bought off DeSantis or already has gotten him microchipped and is controlling him with his PlayStation.


"No conspiracy theory should be accepted without evidence. Spreading dangerous rumors which may result in deaths is inhuman and perhaps criminal."


Sadly, that horse left the barn long ago - in a full gallop. Even more sad, is that it's only getting worse and more horses are bolting every day. Personally, I can't wait until it's my turn in line and if others in front of me want to drop out, I'm certainly not going to expend any effort in changing (as if that were even possible) their gullible minds.

[blueash]

The control group gets the placebo. They won't have adverse reactions.

Without the long post to which biker was replying this is a bit confusing, but the earlier post was that in studies they watch for adverse effects in the active as well as placebo group.

Biker you are simultaneously right and wrong. No one knows what the risks might be of a medication or vaccine. So while something that happened long term might be an adverse reaction to the shot the only way to know is to record all events in both groups. This might include obvious things like hives or fever but also things like kidney failure or arthritis or heart attacks. Kidney failure is going to happen in any group you watch over months or years. The question is does it happen significantly more often in the drug group. So yes, the manufacturer watches for all outcomes short and long term in the active and placebo group as that data is needed for comparison and risk assessment.

Only after analysis can it then be said if an outcome is a drug related adverse event or the background expected rate.

[Two Bills]

Certainly did not happen overnight and kudos to all the research even before we knew about COVID19.

"How could scientists race out COVID-19 vaccines so fast without cutting corners? A head start helped — over a decade of behind-the-scenes research that had new vaccine technology poised for a challenge just as the coronavirus erupted.

“The speed is a reflection of years of work that went before,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, the top U.S. infectious disease expert, told The Associated Press. “That’s what the public has to understand.”

"Creating vaccines and having results from rigorous studies less than a year after the world discovered a never-before-seen disease is incredible, cutting years off normal development. But the two U.S. frontrunners are made in a way that promises speedier development may become the norm — especially if they prove to work long-term as well as early testing suggests."

Years of research laid groundwork for speedy COVID-19 vaccines | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/years-of-research-laid-groundwork-for-speedy-covid-19-vaccines)

I think a Turkish married couple with their own research company in Germany were heavily involved in the discovery of the Pfizer vaccine, or have they already been written out of history?

[Byte1]

All I know or care about is that once the vaccination is available here, I will no longer be wearing a mask regardless of what a bunch of so-called experts say on TV. If I still get the virus, I will take precautions to prevent the spread of it. I will worry about it then, but I have no intention of wearing that stupid, practically worthless rag over my face once the vaccine is here. If you don't get the vaccine, do not blame me if you become infected. It's all on you. And if you fear me then stay the heck away from me. If you still find some reason that you feel necessary to approach me, then it is all on you. If you walk in front of a moving car, it is not the operator's fault if you get run over. If you think I am dangerous, it behooves you to stay away. If that is considered uncaring, irresponsible or selfish, that is your problem so don't attempt to make it mine.
So, don't tell me that the vaccination does not protect me from the virus and that I should continue to wear my mask, because I will abstain from getting vaccinated if I am told there is no benefit from the vaccine.

[Bucco]

I think a Turkish married couple with their own research company in Germany were heavily involved in the discovery of the Pfizer vaccine, or have they already been written out of history?

I think you should re read the link I supplied. It is pretty specific about where, who and when.

"But long before COVID-19 was on the radar, the groundwork was laid in large part by two different streams of research, one at the NIH and the other at the University of Pennsylvania — and because scientists had learned a bit about other coronaviruses from prior SARS and MERS outbreaks."

"That was a discovery in 2013, when Graham, deputy director of NIH’s Vaccine Research Center, and colleague Jason McLellan were investigating a decades-old failed vaccine against RSV, a childhood respiratory illness.

"They homed in on the right structure for an RSV protein and learned genetic tweaks that stabilized the protein in the correct shape for vaccine development."

"Likewise, Germany’s BioNTech in 2018 had partnered with New York-based Pfizer to develop a more modern mRNA-based flu vaccine, giving both companies some early knowledge about how to handle the technology.

“This was all brewing. This didn’t come out of nowhere,” said Pfizer’s Dormitze"

"Then at the NIH, Graham woke up on Saturday Jan. 11 to see Chinese scientists had shared the genetic map of the new coronavirus. His team got to work on the right-shaped spike protein. Days later, they sent Moderna that recipe — and the vaccine race was on."

Amazing....this is what these folks do full time and are good at at. Lots of people, many countries, and lots of scientific co operation.

[Bucco]

All I know or care about is that once the vaccination is available here, I will no longer be wearing a mask regardless of what a bunch of so-called experts say on TV. If I still get the virus, I will take precautions to prevent the spread of it. I will worry about it then, but I have no intention of wearing that stupid, practically worthless rag over my face once the vaccine is here. If you don't get the vaccine, do not blame me if you become infected. It's all on you. And if you fear me then stay the heck away from me. If you still find some reason that you feel necessary to approach me, then it is all on you. If you walk in front of a moving car, it is not the operator's fault if you get run over. If you think I am dangerous, it behooves you to stay away. If that is considered uncaring, irresponsible or selfish, that is your problem so don't attempt to make it mine.
So, don't tell me that the vaccination does not protect me from the virus and that I should continue to wear my mask, because I will abstain from getting vaccinated if I am told there is no benefit from the vaccine.

"Among public health experts, there is near-unanimous endorsement of universal mask mandates to shield people from the virus and slow the pandemic.

“The more people who wear a mask, the more the community is protected and therefore the more you individually benefit,” said Dr. John Brooks, chief medical officer of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Covid-19 response program. “It’s like a herd effect.”

Wearing Masks to Prevent Coronavirus: Here'''s What Scientists Know - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-masks.html)

[biker1]

I was responding to what I believe was confusion by the poster regarding which group gets the vaccine during the clinical trial. It appeared that he was confused about the definition of the control group (the ones who get the placebo).


Without the long post to which biker was replying this is a bit confusing, but the earlier post was that in studies they watch for adverse effects in the active as well as placebo group.

Biker you are simultaneously right and wrong. No one knows what the risks might be of a medication or vaccine. So while something that happened long term might be an adverse reaction to the shot the only way to know is to record all events in both groups. This might include obvious things like hives or fever but also things like kidney failure or arthritis or heart attacks. Kidney failure is going to happen in any group you watch over months or years. The question is does it happen significantly more often in the drug group. So yes, the manufacturer watches for all outcomes short and long term in the active and placebo group as that data is needed for comparison and risk assessment.

Only after analysis can it then be said if an outcome is a drug related adverse event or the background expected rate.

[coffeebean]

You are assuming that after you are vaccinated you are not going to get Covid and therefore you cannot spread it to others. Wearing a mask as you are well aware is to protect others from your potentially infectious material. If getting the vaccine 100% meant you could not have Covid in your breath droplets then your position of not needing a mask would be justified. However the best vaccine is 95% effective against clinical disease and of unknown but certainly below 100% against sub-clinical disease. So you have a 5% risk of not being protected from Covid even after you complete your shots and additional risk of spreading Covid if you are sub-clinically infected.

That is why people are writing that it is better to continue to wear your mask even after you get your shots until we reach the point when Covid is not widely circulating.

My only answer is "Covid fatigue". I know that is probably not good enough but at least I have been doing my part since the beginning of this pandemic. There are hosts of people that have not done anything at all to help quell the transmission of this virus.

I live in a retirement community so most everyone in my community will be eligible for vaccination against Covid pretty much in the same time frame. I'm going by that fact that most of my community will have the opportunity to protect themselves from Covid by being inoculated with the vaccine. If there are those folks who will not take the vaccine because they are simply anti-vaxxers, I am not about to worry about protecting them. Sorry if this is an unpopular stance but it is the one I will make once I am immune.

[dadoiron]

Yes 👍

[Byte1]

"Among public health experts, there is near-unanimous endorsement of universal mask mandates to shield people from the virus and slow the pandemic.

“The more people who wear a mask, the more the community is protected and therefore the more you individually benefit,” said Dr. John Brooks, chief medical officer of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Covid-19 response program. “It’s like a herd effect.”

Wearing Masks to Prevent Coronavirus: Here'''s What Scientists Know - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-masks.html)

The "experts" also suggest that you stay home so that you are not exposed to anyone contagious. And if you don't drive a car then you cannot have a car related accident. If you don't ride a bicycle you won't have to worry about a car hitting you on in the street. If you don't fly, they you wont' die in a plane crash. There are a lot of preventive practices out there, but some folks prefer to live rather than just breath in a protective coffin.
I never said the virus was a hoax. I just do not believe that anyone should be forced to wear a mask when they do not wish to. It does not bother me at all that I see those without masks when I wear one in conformance with the rest of the lemmings. I do not feel threatened when I see someone without a mask. I stay away from folks that I do not know and some that I do know. I do not rely on ANYONE else to "protect" me. I take care of myself. Do I believe that a mask helps? Yes, I do. Do I believe the mask prevents anyone with a magic shield from the virus? No, I do not. I believe that a mask is about as good as coughing into your sleeve. I believe that you would have to wear a respirator or gas mask in order to be 99% safe.
I do not believe that wearing a mask makes one patriotic. I do not believe that those that are not wearing a mask care nothing for others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but many on here are just judging others based on their hysteria and fear. If you fear death that much, you should build a bomb shelter and move into it. Or, at least retreat to your "safe room" and cuddle your teddy bear.
Like everyone else, I have limits to what I will do to survive this thing. And like I said before, I started out wearing gloves, eye protection and a mask. Now, I only wear a mask in stores that have a sign. I do not live by other folks' limits, just my own. My life, my option. I put no one in danger. If someone approaches me, that is on them. It is not my responsibility to protect anyone other than my family. Ever heard of a Trespassing sign? Just consider anyone not wearing a mask as having one of those signs on them. Stay away from them or you are putting yourself in harms way.
The vaccine is on it's way and even after the majority receive theirs, I am willing to bet that there will be those that demand that others continue to wear their masks during flu season, and the next contagious ailment such as colds, etc. Live in fear if you all wish, but I refuse to allow mass hysteria to interfere with my lifestyle. Like it or not, but you do not have to be part of my life, so stay away from me.

[stanley]

The "experts" also suggest that you stay home so that you are not exposed to anyone contagious. And if you don't drive a car then you cannot have a car related accident. If you don't ride a bicycle you won't have to worry about a car hitting you on in the street. If you don't fly, they you wont' die in a plane crash. There are a lot of preventive practices out there, but some folks prefer to live rather than just breath in a protective coffin.
I never said the virus was a hoax. I just do not believe that anyone should be forced to wear a mask when they do not wish to. It does not bother me at all that I see those without masks when I wear one in conformance with the rest of the lemmings. I do not feel threatened when I see someone without a mask. I stay away from folks that I do not know and some that I do know. I do not rely on ANYONE else to "protect" me. I take care of myself. Do I believe that a mask helps? Yes, I do. Do I believe the mask prevents anyone with a magic shield from the virus? No, I do not. I believe that a mask is about as good as coughing into your sleeve. I believe that you would have to wear a respirator or gas mask in order to be 99% safe.
I do not believe that wearing a mask makes one patriotic. I do not believe that those that are not wearing a mask care nothing for others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but many on here are just judging others based on their hysteria and fear. If you fear death that much, you should build a bomb shelter and move into it. Or, at least retreat to your "safe room" and cuddle your teddy bear.
Like everyone else, I have limits to what I will do to survive this thing. And like I said before, I started out wearing gloves, eye protection and a mask. Now, I only wear a mask in stores that have a sign. I do not live by other folks' limits, just my own. My life, my option. I put no one in danger. If someone approaches me, that is on them. It is not my responsibility to protect anyone other than my family. Ever heard of a Trespassing sign? Just consider anyone not wearing a mask as having one of those signs on them. Stay away from them or you are putting yourself in harms way.
The vaccine is on it's way and even after the majority receive theirs, I am willing to bet that there will be those that demand that others continue to wear their masks during flu season, and the next contagious ailment such as colds, etc. Live in fear if you all wish, but I refuse to allow mass hysteria to interfere with my lifestyle. Like it or not, but you do not have to be part of my life, so stay away from me.

I've said the same thing, only with fewer words :thumbup:

[Aloha1]

I agree with most of what Byte1 posted except, I do not trust that my fellow humans who are not wearing a mask at stores I patronize are "safe". Therefore, I wear a mask any time I am inside an establishment. Common sense.

[jimjamuser]

Here are the EXPERT predictions from the Scientist at Washington State U. - by April vaccines will have saved 25,000 US citizens. That's great! BUT, more frequent mask-wearing could save an additional 56,000.

[coffeebean]

Here are the EXPERT predictions from the Scientist at Washington State U. - by April vaccines will have saved 25,000 US citizens. That's great! BUT, more frequent mask-wearing could save an additional 56,000.

There are too many people who refuse to wear masks and insist that masks don't work to slow the spread of the virus. How do we deal with that?

[billethkid]

I think I asked this somewhere before....after herd immunity and most have been vaccinated that leaves the anti maskers many or most of whom will be anti vaccine....do they become a more vulnerable group with a higher potential to "spread" among themselves?

[coffeebean]

I think I asked this somewhere before....after herd immunity and most have been vaccinated that leaves the anti maskers many or most of whom will be anti vaccine....do they become a more vulnerable group with a higher potential to "spread" among themselves?

Information which answers your question.......
Herd immunity - APIC (https://apic.org/monthly_alerts/herd-immunity/)