History of the POA

[eweissenbach]

Just found this and found it interesting. Gives you insight into the beginnings of The Villages and the POA. Our History | POA of The Villages (https://poa4us.org/our-history/)

[Bay Kid]

Thank you for sharing TVs history.

[John41]

Just found this and found it interesting. Gives you insight into the beginnings of The Villages and the POA. Our History | POA of The Villages (https://poa4us.org/our-history/)

Interesting article. The POA has championed the residents interests on many issues.

[Velvet]

What a lovely article. Thank you for posting it. The history tells me what my uncle and aunt in the 80’s and later my father and mother faced in The Villages. We have progressed so much since then, I can hardly believe all this took place in my lifetime. And we are not finished yet!

[Mleeja]

Of course the article was written from the POA’s perspective. It sure makes them look good. Maybe when they first started they were a check against the Developer. Today, they are a political organization, pure and simple. Look at how many of your CDD, AAC, PWAC representatives are members or officers (present or past) of the POA. Look how at least three of the Sumter County Commissioners are beholding to the POA. They are slowly taking over The Villages. Before long the most powerful persons in our community will be the board of directors of the POA. This is when I put the “For Sale” sign in the yard.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Of course the article was written from the POA’s perspective. It sure makes them look good. Maybe when they first started they were a check against the Developer. Today, they are a political organization, pure and simple. Look at how many of your CDD, AAC, PWAC representatives are members or officers (present or past) of the POA. Look how at least three of the Sumter County Commissioners are beholding to the POA. They are slowly taking over The Villages. Before long the most powerful persons in our community will be the board of directors of the POA. This is when I put the “For Sale” sign in the yard.

I think you may be confusing the POA with the HOA.

Regarding the history page - it was a little hard to read as uploaded. No spaces between paragraphs, typos and spelling mistakes creating sentences that made no sense at all - I mean - PLEAD Bank? Seriously? They need a copy editor. I might volunteer. It isn't the first time I've looked at one of their publications and wondered "whose auto-fill picked THAT word?" (correct word is BLOOD - it's a blood bank, not a plead bank).

A better-organized timeline probably would've been more suitable, rather than the wall of text.

I made it about halfway down before I had to just close the page and do something else with my eyes. Much of the history I already knew, as I'd done tons of reading about the Villages, both official Villages documents and unofficial accountings of its history, and read their entire website prior.

[John41]

Of course the article was written from the POA’s perspective. It sure makes them look good. Maybe when they first started they were a check against the Developer. Today, they are a political organization, pure and simple. Look at how many of your CDD, AAC, PWAC representatives are members or officers (present or past) of the POA. Look how at least three of the Sumter County Commissioners are beholding to the POA. They are slowly taking over The Villages. Before long the most powerful persons in our community will be the board of directors of the POA. This is when I put the “For Sale” sign in the yard.

Those POA commissioners were overwhelming elected by the residents a few months ago as a check on the developers puppet commissioners who raised our taxes 25% so the developer wouldn't have to pay for his roads in the area South of 44.

[Mleeja]

Those POA commissioners were overwhelming elected by the residents a few months ago as a check on the developers puppet commissioners who raised our taxes 25% so the developer wouldn't have to pay for his roads in the area South of 44.

But they were all selected and promoted by the POA. If not for their backing no one would have known who they were. Go back and review the POA Bulletins. All three will just be mouth pieces for the POA.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

But they were all selected and promoted by the POA. If not for their backing no one would have known who they were. Go back and review the POA Bulletins. All three will just be mouth pieces for the POA.

The POA are all residents of the Villages. There are thousands of members, and every single one of them is a resident. ANY resident can be a member, and the dues I believe are just $10/year. If you don't like what they're doing, you can sit on the sidelines and complain, or you can join the POA and let your opinion be heard - and cast your vote.

[Bob.Betty]

Why wait?

[graciegirl]

Of course the article was written from the POA’s perspective. It sure makes them look good. Maybe when they first started they were a check against the Developer. Today, they are a political organization, pure and simple. Look at how many of your CDD, AAC, PWAC representatives are members or officers (present or past) of the POA. Look how at least three of the Sumter County Commissioners are beholding to the POA. They are slowly taking over The Villages. Before long the most powerful persons in our community will be the board of directors of the POA. This is when I put the “For Sale” sign in the yard.

I am not a fan of the POA. When we first moved here it had two long standing leaders who I think wrote the bulletin. It was often misspelled and it seemed to me to be anti-developer.

I still am not a fan.

[twoplanekid]

Both the VHA and POA have their place in representing groups of Villagers. As a member of the VHA that claims to be independent of any Developer influence, I feel uncomfortable that only the VHA has mail pickup boxes at all postal locations in the Villages, past presidents of the VHA seem to be appointed to new government positions by the Developer and the VHA is given special treatment for tickets to the once a year Developer night program. As the VHA does many good things for the Village community, I retain my membership, participate in their activities, and try to look the other way to the things I mentioned that I believe are in conflict with the stated VHA position of total independence from the developer.

I believe that all groups should work together thru networking. And they should view the Developer as the most powerful entity in the community to then always keep communications open with them.

[lstevenson1470]

They may be cleaning it up right now. I tried to follow the link and it is down. 9:30 am Sunday 12/27/20

[John41]

But they were all selected and promoted by the POA. If not for their backing no one would have known who they were. Go back and review the POA Bulletins. All three will just be mouth pieces for the POA.

The POA represents the residents interests. Using your terminology, the POA is the "mouthpiece" for the residents eg. repealing the 25% property tax increase.
Of all the issues The POA has been involved in which ones did not represents the residents interests?

The VHA represents the developer and is his "mouthpiece".

[Jerry Leinsing]

It would be a good idea to belong to both while keeping perspective. The POA is for the people. The developers are for themselves. Complicated, huh?

[eweissenbach]

I consider myself pretty pro developer, but I happen to believe in checks and balances, so am a member of the POA. Neither politicians nor corporations should be allowed carte blanc to do anything they want, or serves their interests. BTW the document I shared was written in 1999-2000 covering the first ten years of the POA, while part two was written in 2010.

[Mleeja]

The POA represents the residents interests. Using your terminology, the POA is the "mouthpiece" for the residents eg. repealing the 25% property tax increase.
Of all the issues The POA has been involved in which ones did not represents the residents interests?

The VHA represents the developer and is his "mouthpiece".

If you think the tax increase is going to be repealed, I have a bridge across Lake Sumter I will sell you real cheap! It will not happen. If the tax increased is rolled back, and the impact fees are increased on The Villages Development, growth in the southern areas will stop!

The POA does not publish membership numbers, but I doubt that they represent all of the residents or even a majority.

Lastly, the VHA has taken more of the roll of a service organization.

When is the last time the POA has held an event to raise money for charity, collected and distributed durable medical equipment for residents, or held golf cart safety classes? In my seven years here the answer is never. All they have done is oppose development and expansion of The Villages.

[graciegirl]

The POA represents the residents interests. Using your terminology, the POA is the "mouthpiece" for the residents eg. repealing the 25% property tax increase.
Of all the issues The POA has been involved in which ones did not represents the residents interests?

The VHA represents the developer and is his "mouthpiece".

Yeah. The POA people say all that a lot.

I see all the things that are repaired, fixed, painted, washed, done, prepared, made nice, and I say...I like how this place is run.

I see how this place doesn't spend money foolishly. I see how this place appeals to people who have worked hard all of their lives. This is a good thing here.

[eweissenbach]

The POA represents the residents interests. Using your terminology, the POA is the "mouthpiece" for the residents eg. repealing the 25% property tax increase.
Of all the issues The POA has been involved in which ones did not represents the residents interests?

The VHA represents the developer and is his "mouthpiece".

Yeah. The POA people say all that a lot.

I see all the things that are repaired, fixed, painted, washed, done, prepared, made nice, and I say...I like how this place is run.

I see how this place doesn't spend money foolishly. I see how this place appeals to people who have worked hard all of their lives. This is a good thing here.

Interestingly, I see both of you as being spot on.

[PennBF]

When the Developer was expanding on the South end of the Villages he was expanding faster than At&T could cover the growth. The POA collected over 500 complaints regarding this problem and the POA met with the Florida VP of AT&T to see what could be
done. As a result the VP agreed to sell the boosters for cell phone in some cases at half
price and in some cases they donated them until cell towers could be built and the residents who purchase or secured boosters could keep them. This was not advertised but done by the POA to help the residents. This is the kind of quiet support the POA
provides to the residents. To build a Cell Tower first you have to get the land, then get
the government permission to construct and use. It takes about a year and a half from start to finish to get a new Cell Tower. :popcorn:

[John41]

Yeah. The POA people say all that a lot.

I see all the things that are repaired, fixed, painted, washed, done, prepared, made nice, and I say...I like how this place is run.

I see how this place doesn't spend money foolishly. I see how this place appeals to people who have worked hard all of their lives. This is a good thing here.

The residents spoke decisively in the last county election and overwhelmingly rejected your point of view that change is not needed.

[Advogado]

Those POA commissioners were overwhelming elected by the residents a few months ago as a check on the developers puppet commissioners who raised our taxes 25% so the developer wouldn't have to pay for his roads in the area South of 44.

A lot of people don't understand that the Developer should not only be paying for roads necessitated by his massive expansion of The Villages. He should be paying for ALL county infrastructure necessitated by that expansion, e.g., fire stations, police stations, equipment like fire engines and police cars, libraries, government buildings. In Florida counties where he doesn't control the County Commissions, impact fees are set high enough to cover those costs.

Here the Developer has had a sweetheart deal for years, at the expense of residents, thanks to his packing the Commission with his puppets. Every time you write a check for your county taxes, you are writing a check to the Developer for more than 25% of that amount.

[Advogado]

Of course the article was written from the POA’s perspective. It sure makes them look good. Maybe when they first started they were a check against the Developer. Today, they are a political organization, pure and simple. Look at how many of your CDD, AAC, PWAC representatives are members or officers (present or past) of the POA. Look how at least three of the Sumter County Commissioners are beholding to the POA. They are slowly taking over The Villages. Before long the most powerful persons in our community will be the board of directors of the POA. This is when I put the “For Sale” sign in the yard.

The POA is the only protection that the residents have against Developer abuse.

An example of that abuse is his packing the County Commission with his puppets so that he could: (a) get rubber-stamp approval of his expansion plans; and (b) offload on to residents (through a 25% county tax increase) county infrastructure costs that he should be paying for (through impact fees). Other examples can be found on the POA website, the most egregious being the deterioration of amenity facilities requiring a class-action lawsuit which resulted in a $40 million settlement. I would much rather have public officials beholding to my volunteer neighbors in the POA than have those officials in the pocket of the Developer.

I am astounded that you would feel differently unless you are somehow affiliated with the Developer or simply do not understand the reality of what has transpired.

[graciegirl]

The POA is the only protection that the residents have against Developer abuse.

An example of that abuse is his packing the County Commission with his puppets so that he could: (a) get rubber-stamp approval of his expansion plans; and (b) offload on to residents (through a 25% county tax increase) county infrastructure costs that he should be paying for (through impact fees). Other examples can be found on the POA website, the most egregious being the deterioration of amenity facilities requiring a class-action lawsuit which resulted in a $40 million settlement. I would much rather have public officials beholding to my volunteer neighbors in the POA than have those officials in the pocket of the Developer.

I am astounded that you would feel differently unless you are somehow affiliated with the Developer or simply do not understand the reality of what has transpired.

I am astounded too. I once went to a party and a person who I had never met said something similar to me. Fortunately a good many people know me personally. I believe that anyone with common sense can see that this place is very well run and that the decisions made by the developer are good for The Villages and good for the residents. I have seen not one drop of evidence that The Developer is acting in any way but conducting a successful business that not only is run well and ethically but supports the economy of the entire three counties it is part of. It is a huge part of Sumter County which was at one time a place with low employment and low income. A rising tide lifts all ships.

I hope someday that I can shake the hand of Jennifer, Mark or Tracy Morse. I would like very much to meet any of them.

They have a half brother who lives in my Village and we have met him once briefly at a party. He is not involved in the business but was once involved in the golf courses I believe.

I wish there was a group that was independent and helpful. I do not like the POA. I think there are other things going on and I don't like to think about them. I hope all the political action folks calm down soon and see that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[rustyp]

I am astounded too. I once went to a party and a person who I had never met said something similar to me. Fortunately a good many people know me personally. I believe that anyone with common sense can see that this place is very well run and that the decisions made by the developer are good for The Villages and good for the residents. I have seen not one drop of evidence that The Developer is acting in any way but conducting a successful business that not only is run well and ethical but supports the economy of the entire three counties it is part of. It is a huge part of Sumter County which was at one time a place with low employment and low income. A rising tide lifts all ships.

I hope someday that I can shake the hand of Jennifer, Mark or Tracy Morse. I would like very much to meet any of them.

They have a half brother who lives in my Village and we have met him once briefly at a party. He is not involved in the business but was once involved in the golf courses I believe.

I wish there was a group that was independent and helpful. I do not like the POA. I think there are other things going on and I don't like to think about them. I hope all the political action folks calm down soon and see that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Perhaps it's good to have the ying and the yang. Have memories forgot when the POA came to the rescue at the tune of 40 million dollars. Residents familiar with Paradise Rec Center, Paradise Park, and the narrow concrete bumpy MMP paths remember. Let me refresh some memories - the Developer did not volunteer the $40 million the POA had to sue and won the lawsuit. I personally think the developer does a good job but that doesn't mean 100% of the time they act in our best interest. Fast forward to more recent times. Who is stepping up to pay for the Sumter bridge infrastructure damage ? Like many of you say The Developers are in the business to make a profit. Sometimes their interests and ours won't always coincide.

[John41]

I am astounded too. I once went to a party and a person who I had never met said something similar to me. Fortunately a good many people know me personally. I believe that anyone with common sense can see that this place is very well run and that the decisions made by the developer are good for The Villages and good for the residents. I have seen not one drop of evidence that The Developer is acting in any way but conducting a successful business that not only is run well and ethical but supports the economy of the entire three counties it is part of. It is a huge part of Sumter County which was at one time a place with low employment and low income. A rising tide lifts all ships.

I hope someday that I can shake the hand of Jennifer, Mark or Tracy Morse. I would like very much to meet any of them.

They have a half brother who lives in my Village and we have met him once briefly at a party. He is not involved in the business but was once involved in the golf courses I believe.

I wish there was a group that was independent and helpful. I do not like the POA. I think there are other things going on and I don't like to think about them. I hope all the political action folks calm down soon and see that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You have been given ample evidence of the developers misdeeds but choose to ignore it. Ignore the facts if you will, but fortunately, the overwhelming majority of residents in this last election rejected your point of view.

[graciegirl]

You have been given ample evidence of the developers misdeeds but choose to ignore it. Stick your head in the sand if you will, but fortunately, the overwhelming majority of residents in this last election rejected your point of view.

Here. Read this thread from a few years back;

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/what-does-settlement-mean-regard-recreation-facilities-management-11447/?highlight=Elaine+Dreidame

[rustyp]

Another interesting thread from TOTV on this subject from the past:

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/property-owners-association-131723/index2.html

[John41]

Here. Read this thread from a few years back;

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/what-does-settlement-mean-regard-recreation-facilities-management-11447/?highlight=Elaine+Dreidame

I read it. It's from a poster who is relying on the Daily Sun which the developer owns. Do you really believe its objective? Why would there be a lawsuit needed if the developer was doing his job? Did you read the POA newsletter to get another side?

Most of the time, as you say correctly, The Villages is well maintained. But that comes out of the amenity fees we pay not out of the goodness of the developers heart.

The Villages is what it is today, a desirable retirement community, because of the foresight of the original developers. This generation of Morses is trying to change that vision. And ironically , that past vision you cherish so much, you yourself are destroying with uncritical support for them.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I am astounded too. [snip] I have seen not one drop of evidence that The Developer is acting in any way but conducting a successful business that not only is run well and ethically but supports the economy of the entire three counties it is part of. [snip]

That is because you have chosen not to look. Should you choose otherwise in the future, you might catch a glimpse or two of what most other people notice (whether they support what they notice or are against it are two different things).

It is a huge part of Sumter County which was at one time a place with low employment and low income. A rising tide lifts all ships.

A huge part of Sumter County was farmland, and wild hogs. Low employment because most people worked on their family's farm and were therefore not considered employees. Low income, because - family farm - no pay. The Villages bought out the farms, displaced the families, and razed all that farmland to develop homes for seniors - most of whom don't get a paycheck either because they're retired.

They have a half brother who lives in my Village and we have met him once briefly at a party. He is not involved in the business but was once involved in the golf courses I believe.

Yes, and I like chocolate ice cream, which I know for a fact that at least one member of the Morse Family also likes. It has nothing to do with the topic but hey - if it's good for you, it's good for me.

I do not like the POA. I think there are other things going on and I don't like to think about them. I hope all the political action folks calm down soon and see that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yes, because in your world (as seen in the first paragraph of your post) - if you don't see it or think about it, it can't possibly exist.

I get that you don't like unpleasant things Gracie. I get that. I appreciate it. But not liking unpleasant things doesn't mean unpleasant things can't possibly exist if you choose to not pay attention to them.

[graciegirl]

That is because you have chosen not to look. Should you choose otherwise in the future, you might catch a glimpse or two of what most other people notice (whether they support what they notice or are against it are two different things).



A huge part of Sumter County was farmland, and wild hogs. Low employment because most people worked on their family's farm and were therefore not considered employees. Low income, because - family farm - no pay. The Villages bought out the farms, displaced the families, and razed all that farmland to develop homes for seniors - most of whom don't get a paycheck either because they're retired.



Yes, and I like chocolate ice cream, which I know for a fact that at least one member of the Morse Family also likes. It has nothing to do with the topic but hey - if it's good for you, it's good for me.



Yes, because in your world (as seen in the first paragraph of your post) - if you don't see it or think about it, it can't possibly exist.

I get that you don't like unpleasant things Gracie. I get that. I appreciate it. But not liking unpleasant things doesn't mean unpleasant things can't possibly exist if you choose to not pay attention to them.

Get back to me after living here for fifteen years and carefully observing. I have been here for a long time and still have the same screen name and I do still think it was the best choice to decide to move here. The people I have met and the safety of this place are only two reasons I love it here. People take good care of their stuff and most of them are rule followers. I never would have believed that something called a CDD could be really better run than a city with a mayor and councilmen.

Read this again. Take notes.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/what-does-settlement-mean-regard-recreation-facilities-management-11447/?highlight=Elaine+Dreidame

[Moderator]

The topic is the history of the POA. Please discuss the topic and not each other or the thread will be closed.

Moderator

[tophcfa]

POA should change the acronym to C&B, for checks and balances.

[manaboutown]

Thank God for the POA and the dedicated people who started and continue it to right wrongs. It attempts to assure the Developer keeps its obligations to maintain what it built even years ago and not focus primarily on new areas where it is building and selling new homes.

[biker1]

The Developer is not responsible for maintaining what it built years ago (I am assuming you were referring to the various amenities). The CDDs own the amenities, with the exception of those south of 44 that have not yet been turned over to the CDDs, and are responsible for maintaining them. The Developer does own the Championship Courses and the commercial property. I do agree that the POA does good work. I view them as responsible media.

Thank God for the POA and the dedicated people who started and continue it to right wrongs. It attempts to assure the Developer keeps its obligations to maintain what it built even years ago and not focus primarily on new areas where it is building and selling new homes.

[twoplanekid]

The Developer is not responsible for maintaining what it built years ago (I am assuming you were referring to the various amenities). The CDDs own the amenities, with the exception of those south of 44 that have not yet been turned over to the CDDs, and are responsible for maintaining them. The Developer does own the Championship courses and the commercial property. I do agree that the POA does good work. I view them as responsible media.

I believe that the amenities (recreational facilities) have to be purchased by the CDDs from the Developer. The system/procedure that is used to determine that value could be called into question. Is it fair to everyone?

[tophcfa]

I think that the list of the POA’s accomplishments is very misleading. Why, because the list does not include what could very well have happened if the POA did not exist.

[biker1]

Yes, the amenities are sold to the CDDs. A big chunk of your amenities fee goes to serving the debt from buying the amenities. Why do you think the "system/procedure that is used to determine the value could be called into question"? Do you have some reason to suspect something was not done equitably? I really done care for such speculations without some specific reason.

I believe that the amenities (recreational facilities) have to be purchased by the CDDs from the Developer. The system/procedure that is used to determine that value could be called into question. Is it fair to everyone?

[tophcfa]

Yes, the amenities are sold to the CDDs. A big chunk of your amenities fee goes to serving the debt from buying the amenities. Why do you think the "system/procedure that is used to determine the value could be called into question"? Do you have some reason to suspect something was not done equitably? I really done care for such speculations without some specific reason.

Twoplanekid asked a reasonable question, there is no reason to attack anyone for wanting to understand the truth. Do you have any concrete facts to bring to the table to add clarity?

[Buffalo Jim]

If I am even half-correct in my observations it seems that the current low rate environment would lend itself to more creative financing for even some of the infrastructure projects which may have already been funded in the newly developed sections of the Community . As well as for those which will be required in the near future .

If the projects which drove the increase were properly financed in a more sophisticated construct it just might be possible to roll back much of the increase which has so many justifiably upset .

[biker1]

I wasn't the one attacking the fidelity of the process without providing any evidence. Add clarity to what? The fact that the CDDs purchase the amenities from the Developer? I think that is pretty clear. Anything else I can help you with?

Twoplanekid asked a reasonable question, there is no reason to attack anyone for wanting to understand the truth. Do you have any concrete facts to bring to the table to add clarity?

[biker1]

I think you wanted to say "...because the list DOES INCLUDE what ..." ??? Presumably you meant that items credited to the POA would have happened regardless ??

I think that the list of the POA’s accomplishments is very misleading. Why, because the list does not include what could very well have happened if the POA did not exist.

[Advogado]

The Developer is not responsible for maintaining what it built years ago (I am assuming you were referring to the various amenities). The CDDs own the amenities, with the exception of those south of 44 that have not yet been turned over to the CDDs, and are responsible for maintaining them. The Developer does own the Championship Courses and the commercial property. I do agree that the POA does good work. I view them as responsible media.

You seem to imply that the resident-controlled CDDs own the amenities. That is not the case and never has been. The three Developer-controlled commercial CDDs own most of the amenities, having bought them from the Developer. The Developer has not yet sold his CDDs the amenities in the newest areas. Due to the class-action lawsuit settlement, residents have a degree of control over operation of the amenities.

Until the IRS cracked down on the Developer's abuse and ordered it stopped, the Developer had been having his CDDs issue purportedly tax-exempt bonds to raise cash to pay himself. This scam forced the US taxpayer to subsidize his business operations. Fortunately for the residents and for the Developer, the IRS did not impose its order retroactively and tax interest on the bonds already issued or our whole amenity system could have gone down the tubes.

(The Developer-controlled CDDs now have to issue taxable bonds to raise the cash, so we, as US taxpayers, are no longer subsidizing the Developer's business. However, we continue to subsidize it as Sumter County property-taxpayers as we pay for his county infrastructure though our 25% tax increase.)

During the multi-year IRS investigation of the Developer's abuse of tax-exempt bonds, the POA kept residents informed about what was going on. The VHA (a shill for the Developer) and the Daily Sun (owned by the Developer) downplayed the potential severity of the situation and spun the facts.

In addition, the POA wrote the IRS asking that any adverse ruling only be applied prospectively because of the disastrous impact that a retroactive ruling would have on our amenity system and life style. We will never know if the POA's letter affected final IRS non-retroactive ruling, but the episode is just one more example of the volunteers in the POA trying to look out for the interests of the residents.

The IRS incident is extremely complicated; so I won't get into further details, but if you didn't live here and follow the story as it was unfolding, you can read about it in archived POA Bulletins.

[biker1]

No, I never implied that. I did not go into the distinction between the commercial (VCCDD, SLCDD, BCDD) and residential CDDs. I did state that the amenities south of 44 have not been turned over yet. I was responding to the post regarding the Developer maintaining the amenities. That, as I posted, is not correct as the Developer does not own or maintain the amenities, the CDDs do. One of the main purposes of CDDs is to provide a form of "Government" with state regulated fiduciary responsibilities for the maintenance of amenities after the Developer has left.

You seem to imply that the resident-controlled CDDs own the amenities. That is not the case and never has been. The three Developer-controlled commercial CDDs own most of the amenities, having bought them from the Developer. The Developer has not yet sold his CDDs the amenities in the newest areas.

[PennBF]

To clear some of the air regarding the POA. I am familiar with the inter workings of the POA and to clarify the accusation that it is in anyway committed to a specific party
or organization is just plain wrong. If an official(s) is/are directing an action that is not in the best interest in the residents of The Villages then of course it will be addressed but not with intent of supporting a party/group but rather challenging the act that would have a negative impact for the residents. There have been a number of missteps by some that control the directions of the Villages. Did they go to "0" base budgeting, no. That may have helped them to remove some of the contamination in their spending. To accuse members of the Board of the POA of violating the original intent of the Organization would indicate a basic lack of understanding its historical and fundamental mission. I am not a current Board Member of the POA but make it my objective to understand their mission and results. I would be the first to say that in some instances I may not be in favor of a particular action allegedly supported by the POA, (e.g. not pressing hard enough for reflectors on all cart paths to help night driving, etc) but because of one or 2 opinions it would not justify missing the more serious questions being addressed by the POA and it's board!! We are lucky this Organization exists and truly adds a check and balance for the Residence. With a $10 a year fee it is the best buy in The Villages. Also, no one to my knowledge is turned down at the door to attend monthly meetings or to raise questions.You can always catch up with the paper
that is sent to each home in the Villages on a monthly basis!:popcorn:

[Advogado]

No, I never implied that. I did not go into the distinction between the commercial and residential CDDs. I did state that the amenities south of 44 have not been turned over yet. I was responding to the post regarding the Developer maintaining (essentially) the amenities. That, as I posted, is not correct as the Developer does not maintain the amenities, the CDDs do.
My point, in that regard, was that the reader should understand that the CDDs that own the amenities are the 3 Developer-controlled ones, not the resident-controlled one. I didn't think that that was clear from your post, which is why is used the word "seem".

[tvbound]

Having done quite a bit of research, but also admitting that the whole CDD thing is still confusing to us, I still can't help but wonder about the obvious conflict of interest when the entity valuing the infrastructure - is also connected or personally indebted to the developer. It's a pretty sweet deal if you can get someone to determine the selling price of an item, if they have an allegiance to yourself. I wish I could do that when selling something.

[dewilson58]

The IRS incident is extremely complicated; so I won't get into further details, .
OLD, OLD news.
Sad how much time & effort is spent trying to trash.

Not complicated at all.................Bottomline, the developer and entities won!!

[manaboutown]

You seem to imply that the resident-controlled CDDs own the amenities. That is not the case and never has been. The three Developer-controlled commercial CDDs own most of the amenities, having bought them from the Developer. The Developer has not yet sold his CDDs the amenities in the newest areas. Due to the class-action lawsuit settlement, residents have a degree of control over operation of the amenities.

Until the IRS cracked down on the Developer's abuse and ordered it stopped, the Developer had been having his CDDs issue purportedly tax-exempt bonds to raise cash to pay himself. This scam forced the US taxpayer to subsidize his business operations. Fortunately for the residents and for the Developer, the IRS did not impose its order retroactively and tax interest on the bonds already issued or our whole amenity system could have gone down the tubes.

(The Developer-controlled CDDs now have to issue taxable bonds to raise the cash, so we, as US taxpayers, are no longer subsidizing the Developer's business. However, we continue to subsidize it as Sumter County property-taxpayers as we pay for his county infrastructure though our 25% tax increase.)

During the multi-year IRS investigation of the Developer's abuse of tax-exempt bonds, the POA kept residents informed about what was going on. The VHA (a shill for the Developer) and the Daily Sun (owned by the Developer) downplayed the potential severity of the situation and spun the facts.

In addition, the POA wrote the IRS asking that any adverse ruling only be applied prospectively because of the disastrous impact that a retroactive ruling would have on our amenity system and life style. We will never know if the POA's letter affected final IRS non-retroactive ruling, but the episode is just one more example of the volunteers in the POA trying to look out for the interests of the residents.

The IRS incident is extremely complicated; so I won't get into further details, but if you didn't live here and follow the story as it was unfolding, you can read about it in archived POA Bulletins.

I agree. The Developer essentially controls the commercial property CDDs which have no residents and control the residential CDDs. The intent of my prior post was to provide a short hand version of the reality of the extent of the Developer's control as it is complex, and literally absolute in much of The Villages.

Anybody remember One Sumter which literally gave the Developer control of Sumter County? ONE SUMTER ONE HOT ISSUE - News - Ocala.com - Ocala, FL (https://www.ocala.com/article/LK/20040819/News/604234738/OS)

As to the bonds: https://www.districtgov.org/images/IRSupdates/IRS%20Update%20-%205-21-14.pdf

[Advogado]

Having done quite a bit of research, but also admitting that the whole CDD thing is still confusing to us, I still can't help but wonder about the obvious conflict of interest when the entity valuing the infrastructure - is also connected or personally indebted to the developer. It's a pretty sweet deal if you can get someone to determine the selling price of an item, if they have an allegiance to yourself. I wish I could do that when selling something.
That was one of the concerns of the IRS, and the overpricing also underlay the class-action lawsuit. But you are right, the "whole CDD thing" is confusing.

[Advogado]

OLD, OLD news.
Sad how much time & effort is spent trying to trash.

Not complicated at all.................Bottomline, the developer and entities won!!
It is complicated or you would understand that "the developer and entities" lost.

The commercial CDDs can no longer issue tax exempt bonds to raise cash to pay the Developer for the amenity facilities. They are extremely lucky that the IRS did not decide to tax the interest on the bonds already issued, or they would have faced enormous liability to the holders of the bonds who would have been hit with a tax bill for their interest. They never did thank the POA for its support in avoiding that problem for both them and the residents. As I said, it is complicated, but the subject here is the POA, not the details of the Developer's tax-exempt-bond scam.

[eweissenbach]

I think most, if not all, posters to this thread would agree that the developers have shown incredible vision in planning and building the largest, most successful retirement community in the world. The “developers” are actually dozens of interrelated corporations, and not a group of altruistic rulers. Those corporations are formed to protect the shareholders from liability and to produce profit for them. There is nothing wrong inherently, or in reality, with these corporations or their shareholder/officers. But, invariably, there will be times that the corporate interests and those of the residents are not in alignment. That is not an indictment, but simply a reality of the interests of each entity. That is the reason for the POA, as an influential representative for the resident’s interests. That is not anti-developer any more than the judicial branch of government is anti-legislative. I did not post the POA notes that I happened upon as a political statement. I simply found it to be a significant and interesting document of historical value.

[John41]

That was one of the concerns of the IRS, and the overpricing . But you are right, the "whole CDD thing" is confusing.

Bernie Madoff would be proud. Maybe this financing CCD juggernaut will collapse some day also like the financial crisis several years ago.

[John41]

It is complicated or you would understand that "the developer and entities" lost.

The commercial CDDs can no longer issue tax exempt bonds to raise cash to pay the Developer for the amenity facilities. They are extremely lucky that the IRS did not decide to tax the interest on the bonds already issued, or they would have faced enormous liability to the holders of the bonds who would have been hit with a tax bill for their interest. They never did thank the POA for its support in avoiding that problem for both them and the residents. As I said, it is complicated, but the subject here is the POA, not the details of the Developer's tax-exempt-bond scam.

Thanks for an accurate post and staying on topic.

[dewilson58]

It is complicated or you would understand that "the developer and entities" lost. .

Completely wrong again.
IRS was trying to "invalid" old bonds............they didn't and walked away.


HUGE Victory for and by the developer & entities.

[dewilson58]

I think most, if not all, posters to this thread would agree that the developers have shown incredible vision in planning and building the largest, most successful retirement community in the world. The “developers” are actually dozens of interrelated corporations, and not a group of altruistic rulers. Those corporations are formed to protect the shareholders from liability and to produce profit for them. There is nothing wrong inherently, or in reality, with these corporations or their shareholder/officers. But, invariably, there will be times that the corporate interests and those of the residents are not in alignment. That is not an indictment, but simply a reality of the interests of each entity. That is the reason for the POA, as an influential representative for the resident’s interests. That is not anti-developer any more than the judicial branch of government is anti-legislative. I did not post the POA notes that I happened upon as a political statement. I simply found it to be a significant and interesting document of historical value.
Your original post was good.
Unfortunately The Village Haters started posting.
Thanks for the history.
:coolsmiley:

[tophcfa]

Your original post was good.
Unfortunately The Village Haters started posting.
Thanks for the history.
:coolsmiley:

Don't confuse people who don't put unconditional trust in the developer's every action, and feel the need for adequate checks and balances, with Village Haters. If people truly hated the Villages, why would they not sell their Villages homes at a nice profit and move on from TOTV?

[dewilson58]

Don't confuse people who don't put unconditional trust in the developer's every action, and feel the need for adequate checks and balances, with Village Haters. If people truly hated the Villages, why would they not sell their Villages homes at a nice profit and move on from TOTV?
:coolsmiley:
I don't confuse them.
I have wondered (but I quit) why haters stay, but some do.
Plus there are haters who don't even live here........which is even more confusing.


Have a Great New Year!!!

[John41]

Your original post was good.
Unfortunately The Village Haters started posting.
Thanks for the history.
:coolsmiley:

I went back and reviewed all the posts in this thread. Some question unconditional faith in the developer. Then there are a lot of POA haters who have sensitive toes and consider reporting the developers misdeeds or conflicts of interest as hating the developer.

[Velvet]

Personally, I differentiate between the generations of the Developers. Mr. Schwartz earned my unwavering respect, both my uncle and father knew him. The young ones, on the other hand, I don’t know them. Like everyone else they must earn respect, it doesn’t come free.

[twoplanekid]

Yes, the amenities are sold to the CDDs. A big chunk of your amenities fee goes to serving the debt from buying the amenities. Why do you think the "system/procedure that is used to determine the value could be called into question"? Do you have some reason to suspect something was not done equitably? I really done care for such speculations without some specific reason.

Please read my post -> https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sale-center-utility-company-llc-csu-seller-298488/

I was the only NSCUDD board member to vote against the CSU purchase because of the reasons listed in my statement. Believe it or not, the NSCUDD board had to approve the CSU purchase before the evaluations were made. I was also the only board member to vote against raising the CSU rates to current customers before the start date of NSCUDD taking control of that operation.

Again, I love living here and believe that almost everything is done correctly except for a few things that I would do differently.

[tophcfa]

Have a Great New Year!!!

Back at ya:ho:

[Advogado]

Completely wrong again.
IRS was trying to "invalid" old bonds............they didn't and walked away.


HUGE Victory for and by the developer & entities.

I am sorry, but that is absurd.

You are buying into the VHA/Daily Sun spin of events. Yes, the IRS was attacking the outstanding bonds' tax exemption. Fortunately for both the residents and the Developer, the IRS backed away from taxing the interest on those, which the IRS could have done. BUT the Developer was forbidden by the IRS from continuing his tax-exempt-bond scam for selling future amenities to himself via his use of captive CDDs. Now, only taxable bonds can be issued. That was hardly a victory for the Developer--"HUGE" or otherwise.

But the issue here is the POA, and I am not going to further explain the history of the tax-exempt bond investigation. Read archived POA Bulletins if you really want to understand what was involved.

[dewilson58]

I am sorry, but that is absurd.
Since you don't know, I'll tell you.............TV & entities & consultants & lawyers celebrated the outcome. It was a victory.



The whole tax exempt bond issue was just an aggressive funding tool. Many others were & are available.


The developer reissued bonds which were taxable and saved even more money. Another victory.



The Bond Buyer has an excellent independent view of what happened.

[Advogado]

Since you don't know, I'll tell you.............TV & entities & consultants & lawyers celebrated the outcome. It was a victory.



The whole tax exempt bond issue was just an aggressive funding tool. Many others were & are available.


The developer reissued bonds which were taxable and saved even more money. Another victory.



The Bond Buyer has an excellent independent view of what happened.

They celebrated because the Developer averted an absolute disaster. The Developer and his captive CDDs, in no way, won. They would have won if they had been able to continue using tax-exempt bonds, and they could have refinanced at even lower rates with such bonds. But again, let's stick to the subject: the POA.

I will observe, however, that I was impressed with the Developer's choice of a tax attorney, who did a remarkable job in averting a disaster for both the Developer and the residents. I don't know if pulling political strings might have been a factor in the outcome.

[manaboutown]

Since you don't know, I'll tell you.............TV & entities & consultants & lawyers celebrated the outcome. It was a victory.



The whole tax exempt bond issue was just an aggressive funding tool. Many others were & are available.


The developer reissued bonds which were taxable and saved even more money. Another victory.



The Bond Buyer has an excellent independent view of what happened.

They celebrated getting off the hook in part likely to the efforts of the POA. :)

[dewilson58]

(1) They celebrated because the Developer averted an absolute disaster.



(2) They would have won if they had been able to continue using tax-exempt bonds,


(1) Bingo. A great victory. Glad you agree.



(2) Very minor. Has not phased them or their success.

[dewilson58]

They celebrated getting off the hook in part likely to the efforts of the POA. :)


Yes, like every IRS audit........"getting off the hook" is a victory.


There Advo..............this all ties into the thread POA, CCD, R2D2, IRS,