It's Time to Roll Back the 25% Sumter County Tax Increase!

[Advogado]

Developer's Puppet Commissioners' Enactment of a 25% Tax Hike
Last year, the Sumter County Commission increased our county property taxes by 25%. This obscenely large tax increase caused me to look into local politics for the first time. In doing so, I woke up to the fact that the Developer had packed the County Commission (as well as all the key positions in the local Republican Party) with his puppets and that the tax increase was a means of offloading, on to the residents, infrastructure costs that should have been borne by the Developer. This scam gives the Developer hundreds of millions of dollars at taxpayer expense. (For a further explanation, you can take a look at my September 24, 2019 speech to the County Commission, which I recently discovered is on youtube, albeit with my name misspelled: Scott Fensterbaker--How can five guys screw 125000 people? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4&t=270s) ) .

Developer's Puppet Commissioners Defeated by the EMS Team
As a result of voter outrage over the tax increase and despite the Developer's enormous spending and dirty tricks, the Developer's puppet Commissioners (Butler, Burgess, and Printz) were defeated by Republican reform candidates Estep, Miller, and Search (known as “the EMS Team”). The EMS Team promised to roll back the tax increase, making up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer's impact fee to a reasonable level. Residents were satisfied not only by the victory of the EMS Team, but also by the fact that a criminal investigation of election tactics used by the Developer in his unsuccessful attempt to keep his puppets in office is underway.

Developer's Efforts to Preserve the Tax Increase and His Sweetheart Impact Fee
Now, it appears that the two remaining Developer puppets on the Commission (Gilpin and Breeden) and County Administrator Bradley Arnold (who was hired by the Developer puppets) are attempting to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and derail efforts to roll back the tax increase. As a consequence, I have emailed the following letter to the EMS Team:

An Open Letter to the EMS Team

To: Commissioners Estep, Miller, and Search:

Apparently, the two Developer's puppets who remain on the Commission are now arguing that raising impact fees would discourage economic growth to the detriment of Sumter County, and therefore, the Developer's sweetheart rate should be continued and our 25% tax hike not rolled back-- as you guys pledged to do. The Developer's puppets' argument is absolute BS, and I hope that you are not buying it.

A simple explanation of the economic effect of impact fees is found on the Flagler County website (Page not found | FlaglerLive (https://flaglerlive.com/44763/impact-fees-faq/):)

"Impact fees are generally accepted except by developers and some real estate professionals, who call impact fees a “hidden tax” that slows or discourages growth by pricing people out of homes: if the price of a home is $10,000 or $15,000 greater than it would be without impact fees, some homeowners who might otherwise have been able to afford a house consequently would not.
Impact fees are taxes. They are hidden only in so far as they fall into a large category of “fees” that local governments impose that are indistinguishable from taxes. Semantics aside, they’re not quite hidden: Governments clearly advertise them and, of course, impose them at the time of construction.
The evidence, however, is strongly against the argument that impact fees either slow or discourage growth: Florida’s highest-growth decades followed the imposition of impact fees in the late 1970s. And Flagler County led the nation as the fastest-growing county for several years during the middle of the 2000s despite relatively steep impact fees.
Impact fees may well spur growth and increase home values: while it’s true that impact fees will add to the cost of a house, and that cost will be passed on to home-owners, the higher value of the new house will also improve the values of existing, neighboring homes. In that sense, impact fees raise the value of homes. Existing residents who have presumably paid their impact fee will also be appreciative of a government that keeps their other taxes relatively low, while generating revenue through one-time impact fees on new residents and businesses.
Absent alternative means of paying for growth, the absence of impact fees would artificially lower the price of new construction by shifting the burden of growth’s cost onto existing homes or creating considerable deficits between the impact of growth and available services, thus lowering the quality of life–and with it, home values and the attractiveness of a locality, which would potentially hurt further construction and home-ownership."

Please do not lose sight of what you were elected to do and be taken in by the Developer's puppets' specious arguments. You need to rollback the 25% tax increase (completely if possible) and make up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee-- to cover not just roads but also ALL county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. Your doing so will be your legacy. Your not doing so will let down the residents of Sumter County and destroy both your reputation and your legacy. Remember, you were not elected to be friends with the Developer or with the Developer's remaining puppet Commissioners. What was going on at the County Commission for a number of years was political malfeasance at its worst. You were elected to clean it up, not to be nice guys.

Contact the EMS Team to Show Your Support for the Tax Rollback

I would suggest that concerned residents contact Mssrs. Estep, Miller, and Search to show support for the tax rollback. Contact information is here: About the Commissioners | Sumter County, FL - Official Website (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/67/About-the-Commissioners) .
I would suggest that you not waste your time trying to convince Commissioners Gilpin and Breeden to roll back the tax increase. They remain firmly ensconced in the Developer's pocket. If it were not for the risk of contracting Covid-19 by being in a crowd, I would also encourage everyone to also attend Commission meetings until the tax hike is rolled back, but that is not a good idea right now.

[John41]

I agree the 25% tax increase should be repealed.

Contact info for pro resident commissioners
Craig.Estep@sumtercountyfl.gov
oren.miller@sumtercountyfl.gov
Gary Search phone 352-689-4400

[Bay Kid]

Good luck.

[dewilson58]

During your cut & paste of the online news article, you forgot to cut and paste the Flagler County Transportation Impact Fee of $1438.10.

[Marathon Man]

Why do we need to show support? I thought that was their entire purpose for running for office.

[Love2Swim]

Developer's Puppet Commissioners' Enactment of a 25% Tax Hike
Last year, the Sumter County Commission increased our county property taxes by 25%. This obscenely large tax increase caused me to look into local politics for the first time. In doing so, I woke up to the fact that the Developer had packed the County Commission (as well as all the key positions in the local Republican Party) with his puppets and that the tax increase was a means of offloading, on to the residents, infrastructure costs that should have been borne by the Developer. This scam gives the Developer hundreds of millions of dollars at taxpayer expense. (For a further explanation, you can take a look at my September 24, 2019 speech to the County Commission, which I recently discovered is on youtube, albeit with my name misspelled: Scott Fensterbaker--How can five guys screw 125000 people? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4&t=270s) ) .

Developer's Puppet Commissioners Defeated by the EMS Team
As a result of voter outrage over the tax increase and despite the Developer's enormous spending and dirty tricks, the Developer's puppet Commissioners (Butler, Burgess, and Printz) were defeated by Republican reform candidates Estep, Miller, and Search (known as “the EMS Team”). The EMS Team promised to roll back the tax increase, making up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer's impact fee to a reasonable level. Residents were satisfied not only by the victory of the EMS Team, but also by the fact that a criminal investigation of election tactics used by the Developer in his unsuccessful attempt to keep his puppets in office is underway.

Developer's Efforts to Preserve the Tax Increase and His Sweetheart Impact Fee
Now, it appears that the two remaining Developer puppets on the Commission (Gilpin and Breeden) and County Administrator Bradley Arnold (who was hired by the Developer puppets) are attempting to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and derail efforts to roll back the tax increase. As a consequence, I have emailed the following letter to the EMS Team:

An Open Letter to the EMS Team

To: Commissioners Estep, Miller, and Search:

Apparently, the two Developer's puppets who remain on the Commission are now arguing that raising impact fees would discourage economic growth to the detriment of Sumter County, and therefore, the Developer's sweetheart rate should be continued and our 25% tax hike not rolled back-- as you guys pledged to do. The Developer's puppets' argument is absolute BS, and I hope that you are not buying it.

A simple explanation of the economic effect of impact fees is found on the Flagler County website (Page not found | FlaglerLive (https://flaglerlive.com/44763/impact-fees-faq/):)

"Impact fees are generally accepted except by developers and some real estate professionals, who call impact fees a “hidden tax” that slows or discourages growth by pricing people out of homes: if the price of a home is $10,000 or $15,000 greater than it would be without impact fees, some homeowners who might otherwise have been able to afford a house consequently would not.
Impact fees are taxes. They are hidden only in so far as they fall into a large category of “fees” that local governments impose that are indistinguishable from taxes. Semantics aside, they’re not quite hidden: Governments clearly advertise them and, of course, impose them at the time of construction.
The evidence, however, is strongly against the argument that impact fees either slow or discourage growth: Florida’s highest-growth decades followed the imposition of impact fees in the late 1970s. And Flagler County led the nation as the fastest-growing county for several years during the middle of the 2000s despite relatively steep impact fees.
Impact fees may well spur growth and increase home values: while it’s true that impact fees will add to the cost of a house, and that cost will be passed on to home-owners, the higher value of the new house will also improve the values of existing, neighboring homes. In that sense, impact fees raise the value of homes. Existing residents who have presumably paid their impact fee will also be appreciative of a government that keeps their other taxes relatively low, while generating revenue through one-time impact fees on new residents and businesses.
Absent alternative means of paying for growth, the absence of impact fees would artificially lower the price of new construction by shifting the burden of growth’s cost onto existing homes or creating considerable deficits between the impact of growth and available services, thus lowering the quality of life–and with it, home values and the attractiveness of a locality, which would potentially hurt further construction and home-ownership."

Please do not lose sight of what you were elected to do and be taken in by the Developer's puppets' specious arguments. You need to rollback the 25% tax increase (completely if possible) and make up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee-- to cover not just roads but also ALL county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. Your doing so will be your legacy. Your not doing so will let down the residents of Sumter County and destroy both your reputation and your legacy. Remember, you were not elected to be friends with the Developer or with the Developer's remaining puppet Commissioners. What was going on at the County Commission for a number of years was political malfeasance at its worst. You were elected to clean it up, not to be nice guys.

Contact the EMS Team to Show Your Support for the Tax Rollback

I would suggest that concerned residents contact Mssrs. Estep, Miller, and Search to show support for the tax rollback. Contact information is here: About the Commissioners | Sumter County, FL - Official Website (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/67/About-the-Commissioners) .
I would suggest that you not waste your time trying to convince Commissioners Gilpin and Breeden to roll back the tax increase. They remain firmly ensconced in the Developer's pocket. If it were not for the risk of contracting Covid-19 by being in a crowd, I would also encourage everyone to also attend Commission meetings until the tax hike is rolled back, but that is not a good idea right now.

Agree....:bigbow:

[Advogado]

Why do we need to show support? I thought that was their entire purpose for running for office.

Remember that the Developer has hundreds of millions of dollars riding on blocking all, or at least part, of the rollback-- thereby protecting all, or at least part, of his sweetheart impact fee. The Developer and his puppets will be doing everything possible to somehow convince at least one member of the EMS team to renege on his campaign promise--thereby blocking or reducing the rollback. Failing that, the Developer and his puppets will do everything possible to delay both the tax rollback and the imposition of the higher impact fee.

The first step is for the Commission to contract for a study of the cost of ALL county infrastructure (not just roads) that will be necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages and to calculate an appropriate impact fee to pay for it. That study will have to be done in any case, and there is no reason to delay doing it.

[Velvet]

I notice only districts 1 to 5 in the contact list. I am in district 6 and my taxes went up by 28.1% last year (not this year).

[Advogado]

I notice only districts 1 to 5 in the contact list. I am in district 6 and my taxes went up by 28.1% last year (not this year).

I think that you are confusing CDD districts with County Districts. Check your voter registration card to see which County District you are in. There are only 5 County Districts.

Your 28.1% is a combination of the 25% millage increase, plus an increase in your assessed value.

Your taxes this year continue to be charged at the millage rate that was increased by 25% in 2019 in order to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. Every time you pay your County Tax, you are, essentially, writing a check to the Developer in the amount of your higher tax.

[Velvet]

:icon_wink: At least once a day I say to myself "If only you had started taking notes on day one in 2004, you could have written one hell of a book about what people don't know or understand about this place". How does "You can't make this $hit up!" sound for a title? :popcorn:

I agree, I still make mistakes, and thank you for correcting me, but not about how much increase I had to pay in property tax. That came out of my bank account.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I have no horse in this race since I live in Lake County. But from an observer's point of view, I think there does need to be a tax increase. Does it need to be 25%? Doubtful.

But considering that for 14 years, inflation has gone up, but taxes have remained stagnant, I think it could be disastrous for Sumter County if SOMETHING doesn't change.

You need revenue from somewhere. The Villages Developer is paying pennies on the dollar for fees to the county, compared to what other developers are being charged. That wouldn't be such a big deal, except the developer is doing almost all of the developing.

If you're not going to raise the developers fees, then you'll have to pay his share of the taxes.

If it were me, I'd raise the developer fees from $900-something per unit, to $1500 per unit - which is still lower than what everyone else is being charged to develop.

And then I would reduce that 25% to 15%.

Alternatively: impose a one-time assessment on every single property in the county of $2000 per property (a 5-unit attached condo property would count as 5 units, not 1), payable over the next 5 years, and then raise the property tax 10% after that 5 year period. [EDITED - $5000 seemed way too steep after second thought, but $2000 spread over a 5-year period seems pretty reasonable]

PLUS raise the developer fees to $1500 per unit for designated owned properties, and $1000 per designated rental property.

[Stu from NYC]

Time to close this thread as it is purely political and of no interest to those of us not in Sumter County.

Since the vast majority of the Villagers live in Sumter County I would like to see threads like this continue.

When a thread is of no interest to me rather easy to scroll on past.

[Stu from NYC]

You seem determined not to let the facts interfere with your irrational love of the Developer and hatred of your neighbors who volunteer for the POA. I will concede that the Developer has built a nice place to live, but this does not give the Developer a license to enrich himself at taxpayer expense. We live in a community, not in a resort hotel, and we should demand honest government that represents the people, not special interests.

With regard to the class action lawsuit you mention: For the benefit of newbies, it was sponsored by the POA when the Developer allowed the amenities to the deteriorate. It resulted in the Developer's having to pony up over $40 million for the residents. If you think that the suit was not justified, feel free to write the Developer a check for your share, which would probably come to roughly $800 ($40 million/50,000 homes) or so.

Thank you for sharing. Like to get all points of view on here.

[manaboutown]

You seem determined not to let the facts interfere with your irrational love of the Developer and hatred of your neighbors who volunteer for the POA. I will concede that the Developer has built a nice place to live, but this does not give the Developer a license to enrich himself at taxpayer expense. We live in a community, not in a resort hotel, and we should demand honest government that represents the people, not special interests.

With regard to the class action lawsuit you mention: For the benefit of newbies, it was sponsored by the POA when the Developer allowed the amenities to the deteriorate. It resulted in the Developer's having to pony up over $40 million for the residents. If you think that the suit was not justified, feel free to write the Developer a check for your share, which would probably come to roughly $800 ($40 million/50,000 homes) or so.

:agree:

[dewilson58]

You need revenue from somewhere. The Villages Developer is paying pennies on the dollar for fees to the county, compared to what other developers are being charged.
If you're not going to raise the developers fees, then you'll have to pay his share of the taxes.

If it were me, I'd raise the developer fees from $900-something per unit, to $1500 per unit - which is still lower than what everyone else is being charged to develop.




I think your information is not factual. All +55 community developers pay the same impact fee. The Villages does NOT get a discount or special treatment.

[New Englander]

Since the vast majority of the Villagers live in Sumter County I would like to see threads like this continue.

When a thread is of no interest to me rather easy to scroll on past.

:agree:

[John41]

The first step is for the Commission to contract for a study of the cost of ALL county infrastructure (not just roads) that will be necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages and to calculate an appropriate impact fee to pay for it. That study will have to be done in any case, and there is no reason to delay doing it.

You are absolutely correct about the cost analysis being required by the Florida Impact Fee Law. It must reflect actual expenses and developer sweetheart deals are prohibited.

[John41]

TOTV rules permit discussion of local politics and if you dont live in Sumter not every post has to be of interest to you.

[John41]

I think your information is not factual. All +55 community developers pay the same impact fee. The Villages does NOT get a discount or special treatment.

Impact fees are not the same for every 55+ developer. They must reflect the actual cost which will vary.
See Parts (f) and (g) below.
________________________

Florida Impact Fee Law
1163.31801 Impact fees; short title; intent; minimum requirements; audits; challenges.—
(1) This section may be cited as the “Florida Impact Fee Act.”
(2) The Legislature finds that impact fees are an important source of revenue for a local government to use in funding the infrastructure necessitated by new growth. The Legislature further finds that impact fees are an outgrowth of the home rule power of a local government to provide certain services within its jurisdiction. Due to the growth of impact fee collections and local governments’ reliance on impact fees, it is the intent of the Legislature to ensure that, when a county or municipality adopts an impact fee by ordinance or a special district adopts an impact fee by resolution, the governing authority complies with this section.
(3) At a minimum, an impact fee adopted by ordinance of a county or municipality or by resolution of a special district must satisfy all of the following conditions:
(a) The calculation of the impact fee must be based on the most recent and localized data.
(b) The local government must provide for accounting and reporting of impact fee collections and expenditures. If a local governmental entity imposes an impact fee to address its infrastructure needs, the entity must account for the revenues and expenditures of such impact fee in a separate accounting fund.
(c) Administrative charges for the collection of impact fees must be limited to actual costs.
(d) The local government must provide notice not less than 90 days before the effective date of an ordinance or resolution imposing a new or increased impact fee. A county or municipality is not required to wait 90 days to decrease, suspend, or eliminate an impact fee.
(e) Collection of the impact fee may not be required to occur earlier than the date of issuance of the building permit for the property that is subject to the fee.
(f) The impact fee must be proportional and reasonably connected to, or have a rational nexus with, the need for additional capital facilities and the increased impact generated by the new residential or commercial construction.
(g) The impact fee must be proportional and reasonably connected to, or have a rational nexus with, the expenditures of the funds collected and the benefits accruing to the new residential or nonresidential construct

[Advogado]

I think your information is not factual. All +55 community developers pay the same impact fee. The Villages does NOT get a discount or special treatment.
How many other +55 Developers are there in Sumter County?

The sweetheart impact fee was limited to road costs, and it does not cover other infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. To give the Developer even more of a break, the impact fee was set at only 40% of the amount deemed appropriate by the 2019 study, which study, as indicated, was limited to road costs.

If you want to see how understand how badly we are getting screwed, watch the video linked in my post and compare Sumter County with Collier County, a County where the Developer does not control the Commission.

Our tax was increased by 25% for only one reason-- to put the amount thereof into the Developer's pocket by maintaining his sweetheart impact fee. If you are okay with that, fine, but understand what you are okay about.

[dewilson58]

How many other +55 Developers are there in Sumter County? If you are okay with that, fine, but understand what you are okay about.


It's available for any and all developers.


I do understand and I'm fine with it.


:clap2:

[dewilson58]

Impact fees are not the same for every 55+ developer. They must reflect the actual cost which will vary.
See Parts (f) and (g) below.
________________________


Wrong again.

Within Sumter County the impact fee is all the same for +55 Developers

[John41]

Wrong again.

Within Sumter County the impact fee is all the same for +55 Developers

But you didnt say that did you. And if you read Part A of the law it does not have to be be county wide either if there are special costs associated with a particular project.

[dewilson58]

But you didnt say that did you.
:what:

[JoMar]

I suspect repeal will not happen once those that were voted in have the responsibility for their actions. I also suspect that by slowing down growth COSTCO will never come here :)

[Marathon Man]

...

The first step is for the Commission to contract for a study of the cost of ALL county infrastructure (not just roads) that will be necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages and to calculate an appropriate impact fee to pay for it. ...

And, the appropriate taxes to be payed by residents. Therefore, calls for a rollback are premature. Data driven decisions are always best.

[Aloha1]

This is about corruption and taxes. It is not about politics.

So you say. And yet the infighting between the new Commissioners has already begun. Remember the parable about the goose who laid the golden eggs.

[Kenswing]

~Snipped~

Please do not lose sight of what you were elected to do and be taken in by the Developer's puppets' specious arguments. You need to rollback the 25% tax increase (completely if possible) and make up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee-- to cover not just roads but also ALL county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. Your doing so will be your legacy. Your not doing so will let down the residents of Sumter County and destroy both your reputation and your legacy. Remember, you were not elected to be friends with the Developer or with the Developer's remaining puppet Commissioners. What was going on at the County Commission for a number of years was political malfeasance at its worst. You were elected to clean it up, not to be nice guys.


It sounds like you're losing confidence in YOUR puppet Commissioners.. So many puppets, so little integrity.. lol

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And, the appropriate taxes to be payed by residents. Therefore, calls for a rollback are premature. Data driven decisions are always best.

Retconning a necessary tax increase is foolish. But expecting NO tax increase at all, is equally foolish. There needs to be a tax increase. But I don't think it needed to be 25%. I think there were, and still are, other avenues to reach out to, for increased revenue. And more cost-efficient decisions the county could make toward saving more, spending less, and still providing service to the towns.

[tophcfa]

I wouldn’t mind subsidizing the developers impact fees, if it was the impact caused by building lots of new Championship golf courses. However, I have absolutely no desire to subsidize the impact fees necessitated by building tens of thousands of new homes, and now apartment complexes as well.

Roll, roll, roll them back, or build more Championship golf, south of 44. Hmmm, sounds like a song I herd before.

[Topspinmo]

Developer's Puppet Commissioners' Enactment of a 25% Tax Hike
Last year, the Sumter County Commission increased our county property taxes by 25%. This obscenely large tax increase caused me to look into local politics for the first time. In doing so, I woke up to the fact that the Developer had packed the County Commission (as well as all the key positions in the local Republican Party) with his puppets and that the tax increase was a means of offloading, on to the residents, infrastructure costs that should have been borne by the Developer. This scam gives the Developer hundreds of millions of dollars at taxpayer expense. (For a further explanation, you can take a look at my September 24, 2019 speech to the County Commission, which I recently discovered is on youtube, albeit with my name misspelled: Scott Fensterbaker--How can five guys screw 125000 people? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4&t=270s) ) .

Developer's Puppet Commissioners Defeated by the EMS Team
As a result of voter outrage over the tax increase and despite the Developer's enormous spending and dirty tricks, the Developer's puppet Commissioners (Butler, Burgess, and Printz) were defeated by Republican reform candidates Estep, Miller, and Search (known as “the EMS Team”). The EMS Team promised to roll back the tax increase, making up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer's impact fee to a reasonable level. Residents were satisfied not only by the victory of the EMS Team, but also by the fact that a criminal investigation of election tactics used by the Developer in his unsuccessful attempt to keep his puppets in office is underway.

Developer's Efforts to Preserve the Tax Increase and His Sweetheart Impact Fee
Now, it appears that the two remaining Developer puppets on the Commission (Gilpin and Breeden) and County Administrator Bradley Arnold (who was hired by the Developer puppets) are attempting to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and derail efforts to roll back the tax increase. As a consequence, I have emailed the following letter to the EMS Team:

An Open Letter to the EMS Team

To: Commissioners Estep, Miller, and Search:

Apparently, the two Developer's puppets who remain on the Commission are now arguing that raising impact fees would discourage economic growth to the detriment of Sumter County, and therefore, the Developer's sweetheart rate should be continued and our 25% tax hike not rolled back-- as you guys pledged to do. The Developer's puppets' argument is absolute BS, and I hope that you are not buying it.

A simple explanation of the economic effect of impact fees is found on the Flagler County website (Page not found | FlaglerLive (https://flaglerlive.com/44763/impact-fees-faq/):)

"Impact fees are generally accepted except by developers and some real estate professionals, who call impact fees a “hidden tax” that slows or discourages growth by pricing people out of homes: if the price of a home is $10,000 or $15,000 greater than it would be without impact fees, some homeowners who might otherwise have been able to afford a house consequently would not.
Impact fees are taxes. They are hidden only in so far as they fall into a large category of “fees” that local governments impose that are indistinguishable from taxes. Semantics aside, they’re not quite hidden: Governments clearly advertise them and, of course, impose them at the time of construction.
The evidence, however, is strongly against the argument that impact fees either slow or discourage growth: Florida’s highest-growth decades followed the imposition of impact fees in the late 1970s. And Flagler County led the nation as the fastest-growing county for several years during the middle of the 2000s despite relatively steep impact fees.
Impact fees may well spur growth and increase home values: while it’s true that impact fees will add to the cost of a house, and that cost will be passed on to home-owners, the higher value of the new house will also improve the values of existing, neighboring homes. In that sense, impact fees raise the value of homes. Existing residents who have presumably paid their impact fee will also be appreciative of a government that keeps their other taxes relatively low, while generating revenue through one-time impact fees on new residents and businesses.
Absent alternative means of paying for growth, the absence of impact fees would artificially lower the price of new construction by shifting the burden of growth’s cost onto existing homes or creating considerable deficits between the impact of growth and available services, thus lowering the quality of life–and with it, home values and the attractiveness of a locality, which would potentially hurt further construction and home-ownership."

Please do not lose sight of what you were elected to do and be taken in by the Developer's puppets' specious arguments. You need to rollback the 25% tax increase (completely if possible) and make up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee-- to cover not just roads but also ALL county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. Your doing so will be your legacy. Your not doing so will let down the residents of Sumter County and destroy both your reputation and your legacy. Remember, you were not elected to be friends with the Developer or with the Developer's remaining puppet Commissioners. What was going on at the County Commission for a number of years was political malfeasance at its worst. You were elected to clean it up, not to be nice guys.

Contact the EMS Team to Show Your Support for the Tax Rollback

I would suggest that concerned residents contact Mssrs. Estep, Miller, and Search to show support for the tax rollback. Contact information is here: About the Commissioners | Sumter County, FL - Official Website (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/67/About-the-Commissioners) .
I would suggest that you not waste your time trying to convince Commissioners Gilpin and Breeden to roll back the tax increase. They remain firmly ensconced in the Developer's pocket. If it were not for the risk of contracting Covid-19 by being in a crowd, I would also encourage everyone to also attend Commission meetings until the tax hike is rolled back, but that is not a good idea right now.

I still pay more taxes, so no, about time Sumter county started paying there fair share. Another thing get use to it, taxes are going to go up ⬆️. It’s there only answer.

[Northwoods]

/// struggling with an attachment...

[Northwoods]

They have to "roll back" the 25% tax increase. It's what they ran on. If they don't, they will have a very hard time getting re-elected next time.

[Velvet]

Just wondering, if any studies were done previously to see how people would react to such a large at one time increase. This response would probably have been forecasted. The frog and the hot water story.

[John41]

So you say. And yet the infighting between the new Commissioners has already begun. Remember the parable about the goose who laid the golden eggs.

An example below of how the new commissioners are working together and not squabbling. The only no vote was Gary Breeden, one of the developer's puppets.
______________________________
Sumter County commissioners voted 4-1 Tuesday night to establish a no-kill animal shelter, culminating a five-year goal of newly elected Commissioner Oren Miller.

[Dilligas]

And, the appropriate taxes to be payed by residents. Therefore, calls for a rollback are premature. Data driven decisions are always best.
If you roll back the 2019 millage rate tax increase, then the last 10 years of no or very little increases (& decreases) will be assessed and small annual increases every year will be retroactively assessed. We have been and are still one of the lowest rate counties in Florida.

[Girlcopper]

I wouldn’t mind subsidizing the developers impact fees, if it was the impact caused by building lots of new Championship golf courses. However, I have absolutely no desire to subsidize the impact fees necessitated by building tens of thousands of new homes, and now apartment complexes as well.

Roll, roll, roll them back, or build more Championship golf, south of 44. Hmmm, sounds like a song I herd before.
Not everyone cares about golf and have other interests. Nothing wrong with new homes and apartments. We dont live in a bubble

[Advogado]

And, the appropriate taxes to be payed by residents. Therefore, calls for a rollback are premature. Data driven decisions are always best.
Calls for a rollback are not premature. Revenue to the County will remain the same. The difference will be that the Developer (through a realistic impact fee), not the current residents (through their property taxes), will be paying for County infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages.

[kappy]

Although costs go up annually, Sumter County did not have a tax increase for many years due to the fact that additional revenues from all the new houses sold in the county each year were more than enough to cover any increase in expenses. If the impact fees were raised to where they should be resulting in a full 100% roll back of the increase, the developer would simply pass that increase to each new home built. In effect, the new homes would be paying for the increase in road construction, thereby paying for the increase that those new homes created.

The three new commissioners ran on a campaign of a 100% roll back. Many Sumter voters actually changed parties to vote for the EMT team. Do you honestly believe that the additional purchase price of each home caused by the charging the developer an increased impact fee will stop people from moving to The Villages? I doubt it!

The email address for Commissioner Gary Search is: gary.search@sumtercountyfl.gov. (I do not know why this address is not on the county website).
The email address for Craig Estep is:craig.estep@sumtercountyfl.gov.
The email address for Oren Miller is: oren.miller@sumtercountyfl.gov.

It only takes a few minutes to send an email to the three commissioners. In fact, you can address it to all three and not have to send three separate emails. I sent my email yesterday and indicated that the citizens of Sumter County who voted for them expect them to keep their campaign promise to roll back the tax increase by the full amount of the increase, not 60%, or 75% but the full 100%.

[Topspinmo]

Impact fees are not the same for every 55+ developer. They must reflect the actual cost which will vary.
See Parts (f) and (g) below.
________________________

Florida Impact Fee Law
1163.31801 Impact fees; short title; intent; minimum requirements; audits; challenges.—
(1) This section may be cited as the “Florida Impact Fee Act.”
(2) The Legislature finds that impact fees are an important source of revenue for a local government to use in funding the infrastructure necessitated by new growth. The Legislature further finds that impact fees are an outgrowth of the home rule power of a local government to provide certain services within its jurisdiction. Due to the growth of impact fee collections and local governments’ reliance on impact fees, it is the intent of the Legislature to ensure that, when a county or municipality adopts an impact fee by ordinance or a special district adopts an impact fee by resolution, the governing authority complies with this section.
(3) At a minimum, an impact fee adopted by ordinance of a county or municipality or by resolution of a special district must satisfy all of the following conditions:
(a) The calculation of the impact fee must be based on the most recent and localized data.
(b) The local government must provide for accounting and reporting of impact fee collections and expenditures. If a local governmental entity imposes an impact fee to address its infrastructure needs, the entity must account for the revenues and expenditures of such impact fee in a separate accounting fund.
(c) Administrative charges for the collection of impact fees must be limited to actual costs.
(d) The local government must provide notice not less than 90 days before the effective date of an ordinance or resolution imposing a new or increased impact fee. A county or municipality is not required to wait 90 days to decrease, suspend, or eliminate an impact fee.
(e) Collection of the impact fee may not be required to occur earlier than the date of issuance of the building permit for the property that is subject to the fee.
(f) The impact fee must be proportional and reasonably connected to, or have a rational nexus with, the need for additional capital facilities and the increased impact generated by the new residential or commercial construction.
(g) The impact fee must be proportional and reasonably connected to, or have a rational nexus with, the expenditures of the funds collected and the benefits accruing to the new residential or nonresidential construct

If anything needs rolled back it’s the apartments at HH’s, that area was already built out residential 20 years go. Developers can do what the want in SS, LSL, BW with buildings already built, but over crowd and overcrowded area that he sold to district not right. But, if you get bunch of puppets in places where approval you get EVERYTHING they want.

[Reedpanos@gmail.com]

We all have a stake in this issue, so do not think it is a done deal. Our home prices are artificially depressed due to the thousands of new homes being sold by the developer at prices undercut by the 25% tax increase. Putting the increase in the impact fee on new home buyers increases both new homes and by market pressure existing home prices. That helps everyone except the developer.

[rmd2]

An example below of how the new commissioners are working together and not squabbling. The only no vote was Gary Breeden, one of the developer's puppets.
______________________________
Sumter County commissioners voted 4-1 Tuesday night to establish a no-kill animal shelter, culminating a five-year goal of newly elected Commissioner Oren Miller.

Big deal, a "pet" project that has nothing to do with their promises.

[Niferlou06]

Here is the email reply:
Thank you for your well thought out and insightful email. I have not lost sight of what I have come to office to do. I want to reassure you of that first and foremost. Additionally we are having a workshop on January 5th to address the issues of impact fees and what those effects may be on potential revenues to try and lower the burden on the ad valorum tax base. It is critical for us to find additional revenue streams and apply those to once again lower the burden on the ad valorum taxes in Sumter County. Thank you for your interest as I work toward identifying solutions to remedy the situation...Craig

[JoMar]

We all have a stake in this issue, so do not think it is a done deal. Our home prices are artificially depressed due to the thousands of new homes being sold by the developer at prices undercut by the 25% tax increase. Putting the increase in the impact fee on new home buyers increases both new homes and by market pressure existing home prices. That helps everyone except the developer.

Another "I got mine" so I don't expect you to "get yours" post. I like the post when one of the new commissioners said they need to find new revenue streams (which of course is us in a different format?). As we continue to fight the developer I can see the developer also finding new revenue streams and focusing less on what the residents care about and more around what works for them.....commercial properties, housing for commercial support, apartment complexes etc. Be careful what you wish for, you might just be successful.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Here is the email reply:
Thank you for your well thought out and insightful email. I have not lost sight of what I have come to office to do. I want to reassure you of that first and foremost. Additionally we are having a workshop on January 5th to address the issues of impact fees and what those effects may be on potential revenues to try and lower the burden on the ad valorum tax base. It is critical for us to find additional revenue streams and apply those to once again lower the burden on the ad valorum taxes in Sumter County. Thank you for your interest as I work toward identifying solutions to remedy the situation...Craig

...additional revenue streams. This is something they should ALWAYS have. The town I came from (yes, Connecticut, yes, boo-hiss taxes, shove that to the side and pay attention to what I'm saying, not to your emotions for once)...

is always in the black. They have a "rainy day fund" because they KNOW there will always be emergencies that they need extra funding for. We paid heavy in property taxes, but the town ALWAYS paid its bills and as a result, was able to get an A rating - which resulted in more services for less money overall.

When we were hit with 6 FEET of snow over a 1-week period, our town was able to plow us out and prepare the roads for the utility companies to put us all back online within a week. MOST of us had heat again within 24 hours. The town public works department worked 24/7 to get trees off the road, get splintered garage corners away from power lines, and move roofs that had collapsed away from stairwells.

And still - they didn't end up in debt to anyone, or have to raise the taxes. Personally I'd rather pay $1 too much in taxes every year, than have an emergency and the town not have enough to pay for the emergency.

Because when that happens, debt accrues interest, and the taxpayer is the one who has to pay that.

[dewilson58]

Our home prices are artificially depressed due to the thousands of new homes being sold by the developer at prices undercut by the 25% tax increase. Putting the increase in the impact fee on new home buyers increases both new homes and by market pressure existing home prices. That helps everyone except the developer.


"artificially depressed" ..................... my home as increased over 10% per year. not too depressed. :ohdear:


The Developer would LOVE to have taxes cut. They pay millions in property taxes every year. Increase the impact fee on new homes will not cost the Developer a dime. The fee will just be added onto the price of the new house. :ho:

[Chellybean]

Remember that the Developer has hundreds of millions of dollars riding on blocking all, or at least part, of the rollback-- thereby protecting all, or at least part, of his sweetheart impact fee. The Developer and his puppets will be doing everything possible to somehow convince at least one member of the EMS team to renege on his campaign promise--thereby blocking or reducing the rollback. Failing that, the Developer and his puppets will do everything possible to delay both the tax rollback and the imposition of the higher impact fee.

The first step is for the Commission to contract for a study of the cost of ALL county infrastructure (not just roads) that will be necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages and to calculate an appropriate impact fee to pay for it. That study will have to be done in any case, and there is no reason to delay doing it.

How about the developer reduce his profit margin to pay for the impact fee's HMMMMM is this Greed?

[Chellybean]

"artificially depressed" ..................... my home as increased over 10% per year. not too depressed. :ohdear:


The Developer would LOVE to have taxes cut. They pay millions in property taxes every year. Increase the impact fee on new homes will not cost the Developer a dime. The fee will just be added onto the price of the new house. :ho:

Where in Gods name do you get 10% a year? Zillow is not a good gauge either and very rarely accurate.
You don't have a increase in value till you sell and get your price, Good luck Mr. Helpful, I very rarely agree with your views.

[Advogado]

How about the developer reduce his profit margin to pay for the impact fee's HMMMMM is this Greed?
The Developer's profits would definitely be hit with the imposition of a reasonable impact fee. If he could profitably raise prices to completely cover increased impact fees, he would already be charging the higher prices. (If not, he should fire his CFO for leaving money on the table.)

This is why the Developer packed the Commission to keep his impact fee obscenely low-- by offloading what should be his infrastructure costs on to us, via the 25% tax increase.

[Advogado]

If you roll back the 2019 millage rate tax increase, then the last 10 years of no or very little increases (& decreases) will be assessed and small annual increases every year will be retroactively assessed. We have been and are still one of the lowest rate counties in Florida.
Remember that as your assessment has gone up, your (and the County's revenue) has tax increased over what it would have been without the reassessment. The addition of new taxable building plus increased valuations should have removed the need for a tax increase.

The 25% increase was enacted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners for ONE reason: to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee at our expense.

[Advogado]

Here is the email reply:
Thank you for your well thought out and insightful email. I have not lost sight of what I have come to office to do. I want to reassure you of that first and foremost. Additionally we are having a workshop on January 5th to address the issues of impact fees and what those effects may be on potential revenues to try and lower the burden on the ad valorum tax base. It is critical for us to find additional revenue streams and apply those to once again lower the burden on the ad valorum taxes in Sumter County. Thank you for your interest as I work toward identifying solutions to remedy the situation...Craig
The Developer, not present residents, should be paying for the infrastructure (all county infrastructure and not just roads) expansion necessitated by the Developer's expansion of The Villages. The County Commission needs to, immediately, contract for an impact-fee study to determine what that amount should be. Upon completion of the study, the Commission needs to increase the Developer's impact fees in the amount determined by the study and reduce the 25% tax hike by the amount of the increased impact-fee revenue.

Simple as that and what the EMS Team promised to do.

[Advogado]

"artificially depressed" ..................... my home as increased over 10% per year. not too depressed. :ohdear:


The Developer would LOVE to have taxes cut. They pay millions in property taxes every year. Increase the impact fee on new homes will not cost the Developer a dime. The fee will just be added onto the price of the new house. :ho:

Your home would have increased more if you were not competing with the Developer's artificially low new home prices, which you are subsidizing with your tax increase and the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. In addition, the Developer's sweetheart impact fee is garnering him hundreds of millions of dollars, which more than makes up for whatever higher property taxes he is now paying on his mostly vacant land and on the relatively small number of completed houses in his inventory.

Finally, you obviously never studied economics or ran a business if you think that a business can simply add increased costs to its prices without reducing sales and taking a profit hit. A reasonable impact fee will cut, but certainly not eliminate, the Developer's bottom line, which is why his puppets set the fee so low.

[JoMar]

We will now see if the new puppets will dance to their puppeteers.

[dewilson58]

Your home would have increased more if you were not competing with the Developer's artificially low new home prices, which you are subsidizing with your tax increase and the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. In addition, the Developer's sweetheart impact fee is garnering him hundreds of millions of dollars, which more than makes up for whatever higher property taxes he is now paying on his mostly vacant land and on the relatively small number of completed houses in his inventory.

Finally, you obviously never studied economics or ran a business if you think that a business can simply add increased costs to its prices without reducing sales and taking a profit hit. A reasonable impact fee will cut, but certainly not eliminate, the Developer's bottom line, which is why his puppets set the fee so low.
Tired old record continues to play.

& wrong on so many items.
Every new home is in competition with a developers continued growth. This is true in every new housing development. Clueless if you did not know this when you purchased. If I cared, +10%/year is great. But I don't care, I'm not selling.


Impact fee is not a sweetheart deal. Any impact fee does not cost The Villages a dime. Doesn't matter if it's $900 or $1900 or $2900. In this market, The Villages can just pass the fee on.



Have you seen The Villages tax bill??.......No you haven't. Have I, yep. Millions of dollars out of their pockets paying their taxes. AGAIN, impact fee doesn't cost them a dime.


Economics...............again........clueless. The Villages have not met price pressures in any economic 101 model. To understand economic, you need to get well past 101 and a Google search.


:clap2:

[dewilson58]

Where in Gods name do you get 10% a year? Zillow is not a good gauge either and very rarely accurate.
You don't have a increase in value till you sell and get your price, Good luck Mr. Helpful, I very rarely agree with your views.
Thank you for wishing me luck, but I'm not selling.


Quite easy to determine valuation...............Look at comp's of same models which have sold.

Also, appraised values are a very good indication of value.

10% is actually low compared to the appraisal I have.

Thanks for asking. :ho:

[biker1]

What would the impact fee have to be increased by to offset the approximately 25% increase in the County Tax of 2019?

Calls for a rollback are not premature. Revenue to the County will remain the same. The difference will be that the Developer (through a realistic impact fee), not the current residents (through their property taxes), will be paying for County infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages.

[dewilson58]

What would the impact fee have to be increased by to offset the approximately 25% increase in the County Tax of 2019?
I know, I know. Pick me, Pick me. I'll wait. :popcorn:

[biker1]

I know, it was a thinly veiled attempt to find out if Avogadro actually knows any real numbers or is just spouting a bunch of qualitative nonsense. I agree with you that if the number is relatively small, say less than 10K, it can be passed through to the buyers without issue as they don’t seem to have any problems selling every house they can build. You have an idea what the real number is ? I couldn’t begin to guess without spending a bunch of time.


I know, I know. Pick me, Pick me. I'll wait. :popcorn:

[Bogie Shooter]

We will now see if the new puppets will dance to their puppeteers.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bogie Shooter]

What would the impact fee have to be increased by to offset the approximately 25% increase in the County Tax of 2019?

Tough questions not allowed or accepted.....

[Advogado]

What would the impact fee have to be increased by to offset the approximately 25% increase in the County Tax of 2019?
That will have to be determined by the results of an impact study.

As another poster earlier explained, the amount of impact fees has to be determined by a calculation of the infrastructure costs imposed on the county by the new construction. That is why the County Commission needs to immediately contract for a study of the cost of non-road infrastructure.

An impact-fee study was done in 2019 with respect only to roads, and then the puppet commissioners only imposed a road impact fee in 40% of the amount justified by the study-- while increasing our taxes by 25%. Thus, it would seem, on the basis of that study, the current ROAD impact fee could immediately be increased by 150%, i.e. up to 100% of the amount shown in the 2019 study.

[dewilson58]

That will have to be determined by the results of an impact study.

As another poster earlier explained, the amount of impact fees has to be determined by a calculation of the infrastructure costs imposed on the county by the new construction. That is why the County Commission needs to immediately contract for a study of the cost of non-road infrastructure.

An impact-fee study was done in 2019 with respect only to roads, and then the puppet commissioners only imposed a road impact fee in 40% of the amount justified by the study-- while increasing our taxes by 25%. Thus, it would seem, on the basis of that study, the current ROAD impact fee could immediately be increased by 150%, i.e. up to 100% of the amount shown in the 2019 study.
A Swing and A Miss.


Biker asked, "What would the impact fee have to be increased by to offset the approximately 25% increase ". That has NOTHING to do with the cost of the infrastructure. Nothing. It's simple math. Taxes increased, say, $50,000,000. Divide that by the 3,000 new homes. Boom..........+$15,000 fee increase.


Your math......150% increase time 3,000 new homes = about $4,000,000. A tad short.


Like Biker said, qualitative nonsense.

[Advogado]

I know, it was a thinly veiled attempt to find out if Avogadro actually knows any real numbers or is just spouting a bunch of qualitative nonsense. I agree with you that if the number is relatively small, say less than 10K, it can be passed through to the buyers without issue as they don’t seem to have any problems selling every house they can build. You have an idea what the real number is ? I couldn’t begin to guess without spending a bunch of time.
Concrete numbers will need to await the outcome of an impact study of the cost of non-road infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages. I have never claimed to have the numbers resulting from imposition of a non-sweetheart impact fee, and I don't think that they yet exist.

With respect to the question of how much of an increased impact fee the Developer will be able to pass on to new home buyers, I don't know and don't particularly care. I will point out though that IF the Developer could pass on your theoretical 10K impact to buyers without reducing sales and profits, he would have already increased his prices by 10K-- or he should fire his CFO for leaving money on the table. In any event, with an appropriate impact fee (whether or not it is all passed on to new-home buyers), you and I, the current residents, will not be paying for the new infrastructure.

[biker1]

OK, so you don’t know. Pretty much what I suspected.


That will have to be determined by the results of an impact study.

As another poster earlier explained, the amount of impact fees has to be determined by a calculation of the infrastructure costs imposed on the county by the new construction. That is why the County Commission needs to immediately contract for a study of the cost of non-road infrastructure.

An impact-fee study was done in 2019 with respect only to roads, and then the puppet commissioners only imposed a road impact fee in 40% of the amount justified by the study-- while increasing our taxes by 25%. Thus, it would seem, on the basis of that study, the current ROAD impact fee could immediately be increased by 150%, i.e. up to 100% of the amount shown in the 2019 study.

[Advogado]

A Swing and A Miss.


Biker asked, "What would the impact fee have to be increased by to offset the approximately 25% increase ". That has NOTHING to do with the cost of the infrastructure. Nothing. It's simple math. Taxes increased, say, $50,000,000. Divide that by the 3,000 new homes. Boom..........+$15,000 fee increase.


Your math......150% increase time 3,000 new homes = about $4,000,000. A tad short.


Like Biker said, qualitative nonsense.


I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are talking about.

For starters, the new Villages area will consist of something like 50,000 additional homes. Increasing the ROAD impact fee by 150% would bring in roughly $1,200 more per home. That is an additional $60,000,000 of tax revenue from just home construction. I do not know how much more would come in from commercial construction and from impact fees for such infrastructure as government buildings, parks, libraries, etc., nor can I say (without seeing the results of an impact study) how much of the 25% tax hike can be rolled back-- maybe it all could be plus a further tax reduction.

You seem to forget that the justification of the tax increase was to pay for new county infrastructure, especially roads. If that is paid for via impact fees, it would seem that the tax increase should be rolled back completely.

[biker1]

I will admit that I do not know the Developer's pricing model but I would guess that it may be similar to several companies I worked for. We typically had a gross margin target we were trying to hit. If the cost went up, the price went up. We dropped products when we could not compete at the gross margins we needed. The average price of new homes is probably about $300K. Let us assume, for the moment because of the lack of any real data, the impact fee needed to go to $10K. That is an average increase of about 3%. I can't speak for everyone but that (a straight pass through of an increased impact fee) would not have been an impediment to us when deciding to buy a new home in The Villages. Can we agree that without any real numbers this thread is just a bunch of speculative nonsense?

Concrete numbers will need to await the outcome of an impact study of the cost of non-road infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages. I have never claimed to have the numbers resulting from imposition of a non-sweetheart impact fee, and I don't think that they yet exist.

With respect to the question of how much of an increased impact fee the Developer will be able to pass on to new home buyers, I don't know and don't particularly care. I will point out though that IF the Developer could pass on your theoretical 10K impact to buyers without reducing sales and profits, he would have already increased his prices by 10K-- or he should fire his CFO for leaving money on the table. In any event, with an appropriate impact fee (whether or not it is all passed on to new-home buyers), you and I, the current residents, will not be paying for the new infrastructure.

[dewilson58]

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are talking about. .



Bingo!!!!!


The 25% increase of approx $50mil is annually.
"You" must look at annual builds............which is about 3,000 per year right now.
Biker asked the increase to cover the $50mil ANNUAL increase.


If you are looking at the total 50,000 new homes......which is probably +10 years of construction, the 25% increase (all things being equal) will amount to 1/2 a TRILLION dollars.


Keep trying. :pray:

[Bogie Shooter]

I will admit that I do not know the Developer's pricing model but I would guess that it may be similar to several companies I worked for. We typically had a gross margin target we were trying to hit. If the cost went up, the price went up. We dropped products when we could not compete at the gross margins we needed. The average price of new homes is probably about $300K. If we assume, for the moment because of the lack of any real data, the impact fee needed to go to $10K. That is an average increase of about 3%. I can't speak for everyone but that would not have been an impediment to us when deciding to buy a new home in The Villages. Can we agree that without any real numbers this thread is just a bunch of speculative nonsense?

But, it does continue to stir up the masses.....

[dewilson58]

Thru all this, do you know what I wished the county would have done????


Issued a Special Revenue Bond and had future NEW property taxes pay off the bonds.


If there are 3,000 house being constructed each year, (what's the average assessed value??) for say $300,000 each, this would generate about $7,000,000 in new tax revenue every year. After ten years of growth @ 3,000 per year...........that's $300mil in tax collections. Plenty to pay off the Special Revenue Bonds.


I wish.

[Advogado]

I will admit that I do not know the Developer's pricing model but I would guess that it may be similar to several companies I worked for. We typically had a gross margin target we were trying to hit. If the cost went up, the price went up. We dropped products when we could not compete at the gross margins we needed. The average price of new homes is probably about $300K. If we assume, for the moment because of the lack of any real data, the impact fee needed to go to $10K. That is an average increase of about 3%. I can't speak for everyone but that would not have been an impediment to us when deciding to buy a new home in The Villages. Can we agree that without any real numbers this thread is just a bunch of speculative nonsense?


No, we cannot agree on that. I think you (and others who expect exact numbers at this point) are completely missing the point.

The issue here is a policy one: Does the Developer (through a reasonable impact fee) or do the current residents (through a 25% tax hike) pay for county infrastructure costs necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages?

That question was resoundingly answered by the voters this year by roughly a two to one margin when they elected to EMS Team (despite the Developer's massive spending and perhaps illegal use of fake candidates to disenfranchise voters). The decision was: THE DEVELOPER, NOT US, MUST PAY! You need to understand that that is no longer open for discussion; only the details need to be worked out.

As explained by an earlier poster, the exact numbers will have to be determined by an impact study, but the Developer, not us, the current residents, MUST pay for the Developer's infrastructure. How much of that cost the Developer can pass on to new home buyers and commercial renters will be determined by market forces and shouldn't really matter to current residents.

[biker1]

I am not missing any point. The Developer will not pay. Any additional costs will be passed through to the buyers. By the way, I don’t have a problem with that. Did you work for the Federal or a state government?

Stop with the disenfranchised voter rhetoric. If someone wanted to vote in the primary they could have by changing their affiliation.


No, we cannot agree on that. I think you are completely missing the point.

The issue here is a policy one: Does the Developer (through a reasonable impact fee) or do the current residents (through a 25% tax hike) pay for county infrastructure costs necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages?

That question was resoundingly answered by the voters this year by roughly a two to one margin when they elected to EMS Team (despite the Developer's massive spending and perhaps illegal use of fake candidates to disenfranchise voters). The decision was: THE DEVELOPER, NOT US, MUST PAY! You need to understand that that is no longer open for discussion; only the details need to be worked out.

As explained by an earlier poster, the exact numbers will have to be determined by an impact study, but the Developer, not us, the current residents, MUST pay for the Developer's infrastructure. How much of that cost the Developer can pass on to new home buyers and commercial renters will be determined by market forces and shouldn't really matter to current residents.

[loweglor]

Silly me, I always thought that housing developers paid impact fees because they significantly change property they own plus tie into utility services provided by the town/city/county. A basic explanation but you get the point. Now, in the case of housing, the impact of these connections to a city/town/county is extremely significant which could lead one to believe that the impact fees would be fairly high. However, it has been published in a number of articles that the developer received a fairly large discount on the impact fees they paid. In fact, it was considerably less than the standard fees paid by other developers for housing projects throughout, at least, central Florida. Is the developer happy? Of course. His bottom line jumped up for each house he built. Is the home buyer happy? Not when their taxes went up 25% in one year to cover........... what? Road improvements? Budget deficits? Poor local government management, that's what. The bottom line for the developer increased with the help of local government and the people.............. hey, buyer beware. Perhaps it's time for people to wake up. Your bottom line is being impacted.......... what are you going to do about it?

[tophcfa]

Thru all this, do you know what I wished the county would have done????


Issued a Special Revenue Bond and had future NEW property taxes pay off the bonds.


If there are 3,000 house being constructed each year, (what's the average assessed value??) for say $300,000 each, this would generate about $7,000,000 in new tax revenue every year. After ten years of growth @ 3,000 per year...........that's $300mil in tax collections. Plenty to pay off the Special Revenue Bonds.

I wish.

Well, that was in fact a helpful post, and I agree, I also wish that was how the developer decided to pay the impact fee. I guess that begs the question, why do you suppose they chose to not issue a Special Revenue Bond, and instead took the path of forcing existing Sumter County residents to foot the bill for a large portion of the impact fees?

[dewilson58]

Well, that was in fact a helpful post, and I agree, I also wish that was how the developer decided to pay the impact fee. I guess that begs the question, why do you suppose they chose to not issue a Special Revenue Bond, and instead took the path of forcing existing Sumter County residents to foot the bill for a large portion of the impact fees?
My Guess: Inexperienced commissioners & county finance staff. None of them have been faced with the issue and did not know what to do. I think Sumter would have been successful in issuing a bond. The new commissioners have even less experience. Oh Boy.

[Velvet]

I will admit that I do not know the Developer's pricing model but I would guess that it may be similar to several companies I worked for. We typically had a gross margin target we were trying to hit. If the cost went up, the price went up. We dropped products when we could not compete at the gross margins we needed. The average price of new homes is probably about $300K. Let us assume, for the moment because of the lack of any real data, the impact fee needed to go to $10K. That is an average increase of about 3%. I can't speak for everyone but that (a straight pass through of an increased impact fee) would not have been an impediment to us when deciding to buy a new home in The Villages. Can we agree that without any real numbers this thread is just a bunch of speculative nonsense?

Nope, not speculative. The property tax money really did come out of my bank account. I can vouch for that.

[tophcfa]

My Guess: Inexperienced commissioners & county finance staff. None of them have been faced with the issue and did not know what to do. I think Sumter would have been successful in issuing a bond. The new commissioners have even less experience. Oh Boy.

I am having a hard time buying that. The commissioners had plenty of people point out to them that the impact fees should not be forced on existing taxpayers. Valuable information they obviously choose to completely ignore. Being naive is no excuse for a civil servant. For such an important decision, they could have easily justified hiring a consultant knowledgeable in such matters to properly educate them before voting.

I find it much more believable that they were told how to vote by those who they answered to, who are not the typical county taxpayers. That again begs the question, why did the ones who told the commissioners how to vote, not instruct them to explore issuing a Special Revenue Bond?

[kappy]

Unless there is a full 100% roll back, we will be paying that increase EVERY year that we own a home in Sumter County.

[dewilson58]

I am having a hard time buying that. The commissioners had plenty of people point out to them that the impact fees should not be forced on existing taxpayers. Valuable information they obviously choose to completely ignore. Being naive is no excuse for a civil servant. For such an important decision, they could have easily justified hiring a consultant knowledgeable in such matters to properly educate them before voting.

I find it much more believable that they were told how to vote by those who they answered to, who are not the typical county taxpayers. That again begs the question, why did the ones who told the commissioners how to vote, not instruct them to explore issuing a Special Revenue Bond?
Not selling, just responding.
Not saying it's an excuse, maybe a reality.

But I believe the way it all shook out cost The Villages money. Even if the Impact Fee was tripled, it would not have cost The Villages a dime. $2k or $5k more in the new home prices would not have impacted The Villages. But the 25% increase was very costly to The Villages.:) Not sure the conspiracy theories of The Villages dictated the vote holds water. :icon_wink:

[mrfixit]

Bingo!!!!!


The 25% increase of approx $50mil is annually.
"You" must look at annual builds............which is about 3,000 per year right now.
Biker asked the increase to cover the $50mil ANNUAL increase.


If you are looking at the total 50,000 new homes......which is probably +10 years of construction, the 25% increase (all things being equal) will amount to 1/2 a TRILLION dollars.


Keep trying. :pray:


So, No Worries Then ?......

Since 1/2 a Trillion $ in total $... is only
..... $$ TEN MILLION DOLLARS... $$
...per home........for each of the 50,000 homes.

[tophcfa]

Not selling, just responding.
Not saying it's an excuse, maybe a reality.

But I believe the way it all shook out cost The Villages money. Even if the Impact Fee was tripled, it would not have cost The Villages a dime. $2k or $5k more in the new home prices would not have impacted The Villages. But the 25% increase was very costly to The Villages.:) Not sure the conspiracy theories of The Villages dictated the vote holds water. :icon_wink:

Perhaps we will never know the real truth? If only we could give some truth serum to the three ousted commissioners and get them to spill the beans on what really went down.

[John41]

I am not missing any point. The Developer will not pay. Any additional costs will be passed through to the buyers. By the way, I don’t have a problem with that. Did you work for the Federal or a state government?

Stop with the disenfranchised voter rhetoric. If someone wanted to vote in the primary they could have by changing their affiliation.


The developer had his puppets run as Democrats so Democrats couldn't cross parties. And now the puppets are under investigation for election fraud, specifically disenfranchising Democratic voters.

[Velvet]

The problem I see with the property tax increase is that the people who have to pay it (continually) are not the ones who get the benefit from it.

[Advogado]

[QUOTE=biker1;1879322]I am not missing any point. The Developer will not pay. Any additional costs will be passed through to the buyers. By the way, I don’t have a problem with that. Did you work for the Federal or a state government?

Stop with the disenfranchised voter rhetoric. If someone wanted to vote in the primary they could have by changing their affiliation.[/QUOTE

You have done a remarkably good job in attacking a statement that I never made. Neither I, nor anybody else, has the numbers for the revenue that would be brought in by a non-sweetheart impact fee. That is why impact studies are done by counties.

The Developer's puppet Commissioners enacted the 25% tax increase to cover the infrastructure costs arising from the Developer's county infrastructure. Common sense would tell you that a genuine impact fee would approximate that amount.

The point here is that the last Commissioner election was all about who would pay for the Developer's county infrastructure, and by about 2 to 1, the voters decided that the Developer would through a non-sweetheart impact fee.

It also doesn't matter whether or not the Developer can simply pass all the impact fees on to the new home buyers--which, by the way, he will not be able to do. If he could, do you seriously believe and his allies would have spent about quarter of a million dollars in a vain attempt to keep his puppets in office.

[John41]

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are talking about.

For starters, the new Villages area will consist of something like 50,000 additional homes. Increasing the ROAD impact fee by 150% would bring in roughly $1,200 more per home. That is an additional $60,000,000 of tax revenue from just home construction. I do not know how much more would come in from commercial construction and from impact fees for such infrastructure as government buildings, parks, libraries, etc., nor can I say (without seeing the results of an impact study) how much of the 25% tax hike can be rolled back-- maybe it all could be plus a further tax reduction.

You seem to forget that the justification of the tax increase was to pay for new county infrastructure, especially roads. If that is paid for via impact fees, it would seem that the tax increase should be rolled back completely.


The Impact Fee Law is clear and as you said a cost analysis must be undertaken. So Revenue Bonds and all those handwaving financing methods by pretend economics experts is irrelevant.

[John41]

I know, it was a thinly veiled attempt to find out if Avogadro actually knows any real numbers or is just spouting a bunch of qualitative nonsense. I agree with you that if the number is relatively small, say less than 10K, it can be passed through to the buyers without issue as they don’t seem to have any problems selling every house they can build. You have an idea what the real number is ? I couldn’t begin to guess without spending a bunch of time.

Avogado started a good thread based on Florida's Impact Fee Law which requires a cost analysis. Unfortunately, it has been hijacked by a couple of pretend economists and I would not bother with them as they descend into childish name calling.

[biker1]

Sure he will and you can't prove otherwise. Buyers always pay the costs. Did you ever work for a real company?



It also doesn't matter whether or not the Developer can simply pass all the impact fees on to the new home buyers--which, by the way, he will not be able to do. If he could, do you seriously believe and his allies would have spent about quarter of a million dollars in a vain attempt to keep his puppets in office.

[biker1]

I will try one more time. Anyone who wanted to vote in the Republican primary could have. They could simply change their affiliation to Republican, vote, and change back. Many people did this. Should it have been necessary? No. But anyone who wanted to vote in the Republican primary could have with very little effort.

The developer had his puppets run as Democrats so Democrats couldn't cross parties. And now the puppets are under investigation for election fraud, specifically disenfranchising Democratic voters.

[Altavia]

The problem I see with the property tax increase is that the people who have to pay it (continually) are not the ones who get the benefit from it.

Every taxpayer benefits from new development in the form of taxes paid by the new homes and businesses. This is why taxes in Sumter remain among the lowest in Florida.

New homeowners also pay far more than their fair share compared to those who purchased homes years ago.

[Velvet]

I am glad that people are enjoying the subsidization of their new homes. But I still don’t think that forced charity from older home owners is the best way to go.

[Advogado]

I am glad that people are enjoying the subsidization of their new homes. But I still don’t think that forced charity from older home owners is the best way to go.
You are right, and the great majority of voters agreed with you in the last election. By overwhelmingly electing the EMS Team as County Commissioners, the voters decided that the costs of the Developer's infrastructure should be borne by the Developer in the form of a reasonable impact fee. This has been decided.

A couple of posters have been naively arguing that the Developer will simply pass along all his increased costs in the form of higher prices for the new houses and wouldn't take a profit hit. They are wrong, but it really doesn't matter. The point is, even if the Developer could do so, it would be irrelevant to the real issue being discussed here. Whether or not the Developer takes a profit hit from imposition of a reasonable impact fee, the CURRENT owners would still not be bearing infrastructure costs that should not be theirs.