I Oppose Raising Road Impact Fees

[jrandall]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

[Mortal1]

Well you're mighty good at making "what ifs" into will be". Not sure what you guess will actually happen though since there is a guaranteed population of 100k+ to tap for future businesses.

[tophcfa]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

One sided talking points taken from the Daily Sun.

[Stu from NYC]

One sided talking points taken from the Daily Sun.

I noticed that also.

[JoMar]

Well you're mighty good at making "what ifs" into will be". Not sure what you guess will actually happen though since there is a guaranteed population of 100k+ to tap for future businesses.

The population is only relevant when the business's are competitive.....impact fees will be reflected in the prices we pay and TV residents aren't receptive to higher prices. States all over the Country are trying to attract businesses by reducing the costs through reduced tax packages to make it desirable for businesses to move there. It's not a new concept. This was a point made during the election but it fell on deaf ears. We are now going to experience reality. What I always find fascinating is we have the ability to simply move if the impact fees negatively impact us, business will need to close or lay off or not come here if they negatively impact them. Is it worth the gamble to save a few hundred bucks a year?

[JoMar]

One sided talking points taken from the Daily Sun.

They weren't talking points, they were comments made by the business community. Do you think the CEO of UF Health wasn't serious? They have two medical facilities here that won't be impacted......and his point was why build a third if the economics don't work. The other businesses also stated they would be hurt if development is slowed.....which comes under the "stating the obvious" heading. I suspect that when the emotions are removed, the County will do what is necessary to attract business and opportunity, provide an environment for those that are here to grow and make decisions that improve the quality of life for all Sumter County. It is their risk to take.

[tophcfa]

impact fees will be reflected in the prices we pay and TV residents aren't receptive to higher prices.

News Flash: TV residents with homes in Sumter county are already paying over half of the impact fees, thanks to the 25% tax increase. If the impact cost of new development can’t be passed along to those creating said costs, or their customers, than such development is not economical. I am extremely pro business, as long as the business is sustainable without being subsidized on the backs of taxpayers.

[stan the man]

I noticed that also.

me to

[tophcfa]

I suspect that when the emotions are removed, the County will do what is necessary to attract business and opportunity, provide an environment for those that are here to grow and make decisions that improve the quality of life for all Sumter County.

Please explain how someone living in the greater Spanish Springs area, who’s property taxes are subsiding the costs created by development happening south of 44, are having their quality of life improved???

[Rwirish]

Let’s all keep paying for the south of 44 development. The new commissioners were elected in part based on this issue. Perhaps the proposed impact fee increase is too high but an increase is needed.

[Love2Swim]

How big are the impact fees that would keep UF Health from opening a third facility here? They stand to make millions off The Villages. I can't believe that some fees will keep them from coming. And its ridiculous to expect existing residents to fund infrastructure for future residents. In any other planned community, the developer would pay for the infrastructure, and recoup his $$ upon sale of the new homes. This is just another way for the Villages Developer to make even more of a profit, off the backs of existing residents.

[irishmartin]

Miller and Search’s platform they run on was about not raising taxes like the previous commissioners? Is this another bate and switch?

[airdale2]

A not for profit hospital will not pay property taxes

[Nick B]

Historically impact fees have never slowed things down in Florida the builder may have to take a little less profit. Oh My!

[Northerner52]

Why doesn't Sumter issue bonds to pay for the road costs that will be paid for by the increase property taxes on the new future homes?

[geobet]

A not for profit hospital will not pay property taxes
There’s that old belief that The Villages makes money off the hospital.
The Villages Hospital has always been a not for profit institution. It is the largest Medicare payer facility in the country. Could you survive on Medicare pay rates? This is why volunteers and donors are so import to it’s ability to survive. They merged with Leesburg to share services. Leesburg has open heart surgery, The Villages has orthopedic joint replacement and rehab. The merge with UF Shands is a mutual benefit for all 3.

[J1ceasar]

That impact fees have much if anything to do with New businesses . A hospital as example may have $5 million in impact fees but it's a $599 million a year business . Each year.

[J1ceasar]

And even a developer knows they just add to the rent . See how high villages rents are???

[wirenail444]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.
The principle business impacted by these fees is the Villages developer. The impact fees in Sumter county are substantially lower than surrounding counties. The resent 25% tax increase was due to these low impact fees and the fact that the county is building roads for the developers new construction south of the turnpike. All the opposition to the increase in impact fees is coming from the Villages developer (aka, the daily sun). Do not be fooled by the rhetoric.

[Kgcetm]

Put a screw to both those guys. They have been exposed for their civic dishonesty as they have in the past and continue to this day to support the builder at the expense of the taxpayers. These guys are in the process of being fired by the electorate and are attempting to pick their pockets one last time.

[Mrmean58]

Please explain how someone living in the greater Spanish Springs area, who’s property taxes are subsiding the costs created by development happening south of 44, are having their quality of life improved???

Correct me if I'm wrong prior to the recent 25 percent increase when was the last PT increase in sumter county? 10-15 years ago?. The issue is everyone saw 25 percent which sent everyone shorts in a bunch. If the PT had increased incrementally over that time we would have a lot less outrage and had better infrastructure. Part of the issue is most everyone s primary income Soc Sec has been creeping up (.9 percent for 2021)while our Legislative branch just voted themselves a +10 percent pay increase.
Combine that fact with pending tax increases. Something to chew on for breakfast.

[jbrown132]

Well you're mighty good at making "what ifs" into will be". Not sure what you guess will actually happen though since there is a guaranteed population of 100k+ to tap for future businesses.
If history has taught us anything, increasing the cost of doing business in an area has always resulted in less business.

[Dond1959]

This is not a small increase in impact fees, it is an increase of 100 to 150%. If you think that will not have an impact on businesses and long term revenue for the county you don’t understand basic economics. If the rate is raised by that percentage commercial development will slow dramatically, the number of homes being built will slow.

So you say that’s great we don’t need anymore homes or businesses. But what you don’t calculate is the unemployment increases and costs of social services increases. Revenues for the county actually fall and guess where the county will look to make up the revenue? All those homeowners in Sumter county. The economy here is heavily dependent on the developer and you can hate them. But you increase the impact fee by this magnitude and you are jeopardizing everything we have here.

For those that say I live near Spanish Springs and will never use anything south of 44. If there is a world class research hospital and you or your spouse need that care, you won’t use it? People north of 44 are already using the amenities south of 44 and with the turnpike bridge almost complete I would bet a lot more people north of 44 will be coming down to use the amenities.

Can the impact fee be increased by some amount? Probably so, but there needs to be significant study of the issue to determine the impact, which I hope they do over the next 6 months.

[FredJacobs]

Miller and Search’s platform they run on was about not raising taxes like the previous commissioners? Is this another bate and switch?

Commissioners Miller and Search were elected to reduce taxes not raise them. Their campaign was based on reversing/reducing the 25% increase in property tax. My 2020 property tax, paid last November, had a reduction of $1.78.

[toeser]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

What is the purpose of growth if it is not self-funded? Our massive property tax increase is a perfect example why all growth is not good growth. No company run by any competent person would plan an expansion where the new revenue was not enough cover the cost of expansion. It would seem our County would benefit from the same logic.

We constantly hear from politicians about the need to expand the tax base. What's the purpose of that if new expenses eat up that expanded tax base? New roads, new water works, new sewers, new schools, more police all eat into that expanded tax base. Unless growth can actually maintain or reduce taxes paid by existing residents, it should not be pursued.

[jrandall]

Yes this is my concern. Additionally the Pandemic has caused harm to retail and restaurants in our community. I don’t think this year is the time to consider a large increase that will directly and negatively impact them.

[heenables]

Miller and Search’s platform they run on was about not raising taxes like the previous commissioners? Is this another bate and switch?

This would actually lower your taxes and raise your home value while raising costs for the developers. They need to do that but how much remains the question.

[bobnyce]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.
Impact fees are taxes. They are taxes imposed on the beneficiaries of new development that create the need for new facilities, roads, schools, utilities, police, fire, etc. They are intended to cover the additional expense of providing these new services while the property taxes levied on the new property will cover the ongoing maintenance of those new services.

The simple question is and always has been - who should pay the cost of necessary new traffic signals, roads, schools, etc., the current property owners or those who benefit from selling or developing the property generating the need for new services.

Taxes will always be an issue but who pays these impact fees is relatively easy - those who benefit from the new homes or business sales that create the IMPACT on our local communities. Is that too much to ask of these developers.

Those costs are often estimated by the developer which can sometimes be unfair. So, yes Impact fees are necessary and should be estimated to the best that they can be. They should be fair. They should be paid by the developer of the new homes or businesses. Keep in mind it is the consumer and taxpayer that pay all bills. Companies pass on their cost to the consumer and government just taxes us to pay their bills.

So, in the end we all pay. Should we also pay for the profits of development and developers? I don't think so. My two cents.

[Windguy]

As a cyclist, I frequently ride on the roads west of TV. They are absolutely abysmal and in great need of paving. Go for a ride west of 301 sometime to see for yourself.

[Syd2008]

I hear a lot of comments on the developer and now hospital and how they are ‘rich enough’ to pay. Remember this also affects small businesses coming in. I tiered increase may be in line but always keep in mind Sumter county is not just the villages. But all I hear is development south of 44. These three commissioners voted in based on looking at entire county.
All we can hope is that the commissioners discuss and listen to all interested parties and not just homeowners. If this job is new take the time to know how your decisions will impact everyone. Lot’s of other places businesses can go in Florida.

[donassaid]

Exactly. It is all about the Developer. How much more can you want than a Billion dollar net worth each?

[Topspinmo]

Let’s all keep paying for the south of 44 development. The new commissioners were elected in part based on this issue. Perhaps the proposed impact fee increase is too high but an increase is needed.

Every person running for public office has an agenda. Why else would the run? personnel gain? Do you actually think they care about public citizen after the elections is over?

[merrymini]

Disgusting, to propose that kind of a tax increase, and yes, it is a tax increase, after running against a large tax increase.

[Bill14564]

Yes this is my concern. Additionally the Pandemic has caused harm to retail and restaurants in our community. I don’t think this year is the time to consider a large increase that will directly and negatively impact them.

The impact fees only apply to new development. Keeping the impact fees low encourages new development and new businesses. Existing retail and restaurant establishments struggling with the impact from Covid may not want the competition of new development in the area.

I have seen a post by an existing business that is looking to expand. The increased fees would absolutely influence that decision.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Impact fee might be $1200 per unit. The developer would pay it once, per unit.
Taxes might go up $600 per unit. The property owner would pay that extra $600 every year.

I think it's in the homeowner's best interest to impose the impact fee, and pay that $1200 spread out over the course of their mortgage (or pay it up front via cash purchase), rather than pay $600 per year extra for every year they live there, until such time as the rates go up again.

[Bill14564]

Disgusting, to propose that kind of a tax increase, and yes, it is a tax increase, after running against a large tax increase.

The problem with calling it a tax increase is that readers become confused (which I truly believe was the intent of the headline in the paper).

The commissioners ran against the 25% property tax increase. The argument was that the taxes were increased on existing properties in order to keep the impact fees lower on new development. If I remember correctly, the commissioners campaigned that they would roll back the property tax increase and remove some or all of the discount being applied to the impact fees. This is exactly what they seem to be proposing now.

[airstreamingypsy]

Of course the developer should pay the impact fees. Why should Sumter County residents, who are watching their once beautiful area be destroyed, pay.... that's adding insult to injury. It's outrageous that any Sumter County resident should have their taxes raised 25% to pay for something the developer is building and will profit from.

[LianneMigiano]

In addition, businesses can (and do) write off every little expense THAT YOU AND I CANNOT😭😭😭😭😭

[LowOnCash]

Yeah, God forbid that any taxes are not thrown on the residents to absorb. Then there is always those residents who like to be abused and like paying extra fees as if we're not paying enough now!

[vermonster]

Correct me if I'm wrong prior to the recent 25 percent increase when was the last PT increase in sumter county? 10-15 years ago?. The issue is everyone saw 25 percent which sent everyone shorts in a bunch. If the PT had increased incrementally over that time we would have a lot less outrage and had better infrastructure. Part of the issue is most everyone s primary income Soc Sec has been creeping up (.9 percent for 2021)while our Legislative branch just voted themselves a +10 percent pay increase.
Combine that fact with pending tax increases. Something to chew on for breakfast.
Please don't confuse an increase in property tax with an increase in the rate of property tax. Perhaps it was not necessary to increase the rate of tax over the past decade because each property owner has paid a slow but steadily increasing amount of tax because that fixed rate is applied to the increased assessed value of his/her property. And as a general comment to this post, I would like to point out that growth has its detriments as well as its benefits. You would not know this from reading the Daily Sun in which growth without end is only beneficial, as thousands of acres of productive Florida land is converted to what is considered necessary for human habitation. This is land that is no longer naturally growing trees and grasses, providing homes and habitats for wildlife, replenishing the aquifer, etc. The economic justification for impact fees is to incorporate the true and total costs of development (not just the direct costs) into the process so as not to transfer it to others (the environment, existing property owners, etc.)

[Bilyclub]

I wonder if all those people who brought the trucks and attended the hearing were on the clock and getting paid for it by the developer's favorite contractors.

[hrenner]

When in doubt, smear the truth Sayers. Good tactic :)

[jnieman]

Right on.

[Stu from NYC]

I wonder if all those people who brought the trucks and attended the hearing were on the clock and getting paid for it by the developer's favorite contractors.

Do you have any doubt?

[DAVES]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

An interesting conflict. Actually has always and will always be so. We want but we want anyone but us to pay for it. True for all of us-including me.

[Burgy]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.
Seems to me after 10 plus years, the commission never raised home taxes very much , then tried 25% and got booted out. Now the replacements are trying to tap commercial sources. The news quotes appear substantial. I think the county and commission is too pro growth and should be slowed down. We don't want or need to be the fastest in the country, it leads to these problems. We don't need to stifle business owners either.

[tophcfa]

Miller and Search’s platform they run on was about not raising taxes like the previous commissioners? Is this another bate and switch?

Disgusting, to propose that kind of a tax increase, and yes, it is a tax increase, after running against a large tax increase.

The Daily Sun articles appears to have been successful in misleading some that the new commissioners are proposing a tax increase. What the are proposing is a reallocation of how the impact costs associated with new development are paid for.

Another way to put it is that they are not looking to raise additional revenue for the county, instead they are looking to have the cost of new development paid for by the parties that are responsible for the development and stand to benefit the most from it.

There is clearly a tipping point, somewhere between the current sweetheart impact fees and raising them to what is considered full impact fees, where raising the fees too high would be detrimental to all parties involved. If the commissioners hire a respected professional who specializes in this kind of analysis, who is truly independent of the developer, I would fully support going with their recommendation. Under the prior commission, a truly independent study was never done, resulting in the current sweetheart impact fees being highly subsidized by the 25% property tax increase.

[JoMar]

The Daily Sun articles appears to have been successful in misleading some that the new commissioners are proposing a tax increase. What the are proposing is a reallocation of how the impact costs associated with new development are paid for.

Another way to put it is that they are not looking to raise additional revenue for the county, instead they are looking to have the cost of new development paid for by the parties that are responsible for the development and stand to benefit the most from it.

There is clearly a tipping point, somewhere between the current sweetheart impact fees and raising them to what is considered full impact fees, where raising the fees too high would be detrimental to all parties involved. If the commissioners hire a respected professional who specializes in this kind of analysis, who is truly independent of the developer, I would fully support going with their recommendation. Under the prior commission, a truly independent study was never done, resulting in the current sweetheart impact fees being highly subsidized by the 25% property tax increase.

I believe the advisors hired by this bunch of commissioners are also not in favor of raising the impact fees......which is one of the reasons they delayed.

[john352]

When were the voters in Sumter County ever asked if they want to pay the added property tax burden to make ”Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth”?

By state laws, the county must have a balanced budget. In 2019, the five County Commissioners (who favored the developer over the current residences) increased the property tax rate by 25%. To rollback that rate increase, the new Sumter County Commission either has to reduce services or find additional revenue. One obvious source of revenue is to increase the one-time fee for the permit for new construction (impact fees). The current residences of Sumter County did not ask for the expansion of The Villages and should not be paying for any part of that expansion. Increasing the impact fees is an obvious way of shifting the burden from the current residences back to the developer where they always belonged.

[Syd2008]

We need to stop talking about the developer only. Very narrow sighted. How will this affect all businesses in all of sumter county. Our commissioners asking for so much may need a lesson in economics.

Smaller tiered increases may be an option. Crazy that most seem to like living In a great community provided by developers foresight but some just bash them.

[Bogie Shooter]

Well, what about Costco & Trader Joe’s? Will higher impact fees encourage them to come to Sumter County?

[Aloha1]

One sided talking points taken from the Daily Sun.

Were any of them falsehoods? The head of UF Medical said as much at the meeting.

[Aloha1]

When were the voters in Sumter County ever asked if they want to pay the added property tax burden to make ”Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth”?

By state laws, the county must have a balanced budget. In 2019, the five County Commissioners (who favored the developer over the current residences) increased the property tax rate by 25%. To rollback that rate increase, the new Sumter County Commission either has to reduce services or find additional revenue. One obvious source of revenue is to increase the one-time fee for the permit for new construction (impact fees). The current residences of Sumter County did not ask for the expansion of The Villages and should not be paying for any part of that expansion. Increasing the impact fees is an obvious way of shifting the burden from the current residences back to the developer where they always belonged.

First, they elected the Commissioners (we are a representative republic, remember?). Second, in reviewing my purchase agreement for TV, I do not see a clause that says "When you move in, all growth and building will stop". And third, you always have the option to sell and go elsewhere but don't count on no more growth or state taxes wherever you go to.

[Rsenholzi]

The impact fees are charged against the builder. They have been consistently 2/3 ‘s lower than the surrounding townships in Florida. They are paying $900 while the lowest amount charged in the area is $2300. Why should we absorb the cost of the builders fees? Why should they get a break when they are the ones making millions of dollars

[Bogie Shooter]

The impact fees are charged against the builder. They have been consistently 2/3 ‘s lower than the surrounding townships in Florida. They are paying $900 while the lowest amount charged in the area is $2300. Why should we absorb the cost of the builders fees? Why should they get a break when they are the ones making millions of dollars
No townships in Florida.

List of municipalities in Florida - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Florida)

[Marathon Man]

When were the voters in Sumter County ever asked if they want to pay the added property tax burden to make ”Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth”?

By state laws, the county must have a balanced budget. In 2019, the five County Commissioners (who favored the developer over the current residences) increased the property tax rate by 25%. To rollback that rate increase, the new Sumter County Commission either has to reduce services or find additional revenue. One obvious source of revenue is to increase the one-time fee for the permit for new construction (impact fees). The current residences of Sumter County did not ask for the expansion of The Villages and should not be paying for any part of that expansion. Increasing the impact fees is an obvious way of shifting the burden from the current residences back to the developer where they always belonged.

That's not how it works. Elected represetatives make the decisions. They may or may not ask for input from residents. We all know that, right?

[Bill14564]

No townships in Florida.

List of municipalities in Florida - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Florida)

Do you also have a link for the impact fees in the counties around us?

[Bill14564]

The impact fees are charged against the builder. They have been consistently 2/3 ‘s lower than the surrounding townships in Florida. They are paying $900 while the lowest amount charged in the area is $2300. Why should we absorb the cost of the builders fees? Why should they get a break when they are the ones making millions of dollars

$900 is the fee for a standalone home in a retirement community. A better comparison would be the fee for a home not in a retirement community or the fee for a fast food restaurant.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I am for a *modest* tax increase. Or tax rate increase. Or whatever that thing is, that people refer to when they talk about a 25% increase in Sumter County. I feel 25%, for whatever it is, is too much to jack it up all at once. On the other hand, the County needs to have enough of a cushion every year that they can afford an emergency situation (flooding, tornadoes, sink holes, bridge decay, etc) without worrying about going into the red. If they're already in the red, they need to get out of it. And that means the revenue stream has to increase.

And so I'm also in favor of a modest impact fee increase. Not 150%. More like 80%. It's currently around $900/unit. Make it $1500/unit. That's only $600 more per unit than currently, it can EASILY be absorbed by the developer, OR passed on to new homeowners, without anyone feeling a pinch.

If you spread out the increased revenue needs among both property owners -and- developers via impact fees for new construction, everyone tosses in a few quid, and no one feels like they're shouldering the entire burden for everyone else.

You could -also- have a residential tenant tax, since they don't own property and aren't building new construction, and in that way you can reduce the burden of taxes on the landlord (who has to pay for all the units), while still requiring him to toss in a few quid of his own. A residential tenant tax might be as little as $2/month extra for income-restricted properties, and as much as $20/month extra for luxury apartments.

[angiefox10]

Please share this so people can understand what is going on. Thank you....

The Daily Fun decided to post yet again their propaganda so I feel compelled to post yet again the truth.

The sky is NOT falling.

My sources tell me those trucks setting out there during the meeting…. They are brand new trucks purchased to the tune of $500,000 each bought with our tax dollars. It’s estimated that the villages spent 50 Million just last year on new “stuff” and the new building on 470. Which sources tell me is only going to be there for about five years since they plan on putting homes there in five years.

One of the many emails I received…the one that said it best….

“My husband is an employee of one of the Villages subsidiaries. He, along with MANY of his co-workers were strongly urged, and in a lot of cases "expected" to park their work trucks in that parking lot and sit through that meeting. My husband had NO IDEA what any of that was about. It wasn’t until he sent me pictures of the parking lot that I even understood where he was or what "meeting" he had been ordered to attend. He doesn't involve himself in politics at all. He had no idea what he was doing. Other than simply, "reporting for duty for some overtime pay". . He was told if "it" goes thru, they may all be without jobs.”

So… most of the people in that room were paid to be there. Overtime pay. And threatened with jobs if “it” goes through.

Look folks. The Commissioners are NOT raising the taxes on the people. They are raising the impact fees on the developers so they can lower the taxes on the residents giving you and I more money to spend in the stores that they would like to say that will suffer.

Can you explain to me how a restaurant like Blue Fin can suffer from us having more money in our pockets? The shops are not developers and are NOT paying more to the county as the Daily Fun would have people believe. The only way this affects the shops is that we have more pocket money to spend in their stores


If we reduce every property owner’s real estate taxes, maybe they could spend the extra money and help put the 2,000 unemployed people in Sumter County back to work.

Remember when the Daily Fun told us the villages wouldn’t build any farther than 466A? And it did. Remember when The Daily Fun said they wouldn’t build past 44? And they did. Now they want you to believe if they have to pay their fair share and pay for the infrastructure that is actually part of THEIR development then the whole economy will suffer? True, they won’t make the profit on the homes that they were making. I think I read it’s about $1,400 for a $250,000 home. (Which they will pass on to the buyer, bless their hearts). But they will continue building. This is the golden egg. They will continue to build.

The people who were at that meeting never voted for the new commissioners in the first place. Those were the Villages subsidiaries… They don’t care if the taxes go up to build the streets in The Village… They have the money to pay it. They have our money!

Where I come from, when something like The Villages is being built bringing in MORE taxes, our taxes usually go down, NOT up! And to say they haven’t gone up in years so it’s OK… NO, it’s NOT OK. There was no need for the taxes to go up in the first place AND there is more to Sumter County than The Villages. There are roads and infrastructure in South Sumter that need work. We live in a beautiful county. It’s time we have commissioners who care about the whole county and work for ALL the residents and not just the developers. Isn’t that what they promised to do? Isn’t that what they ran on?

The Daily Fun was nice enough to post this picture of their trucks blocking the parking spaces so the residents couldn't get in.

[Bilyclub]

I think in all fairness when you weigh in on Sumter County Board issues you should declare who your husband is.

[guitarguy]

World famous economist Milton Friedman on taxes
‘“They are hidden through withholding, but they are also hidden by being imposed on business, supposedly on business, when really, of course, business can't pay taxes, only people can pay taxes.”

[angiefox10]

I think in all fairness when you weigh in on Sumter County Board issues you should declare who your husband is.

Is it worse that I am Miller’s wife than the developers own the Daily Fun?

I don’t know this person. 😊

“ To the Editor:

What a load of BS. Talk about state-controlled media. The Villages Daily Sun, owned, operated, and controlled by The Villages developer has sunk to new lows.
I don’t think you could see more one-sided reporting and attack propaganda media reporting in state-controlled Russia or China.
Wednesday’s “the world is coming to an end” article was so blatantly slanted and self serving, it was almost comical.
And then they doubled down in Thursday’s paper. Wow, complete arrogance. They obviously believe we are indeed that stupid. They had quotes from Villages officials, and of course all their business partners who contributed to the ousted commissioner’s campaigns and are now lining up to vilify the new commissioners, no doubt at the urging of the master.
“We the People” not the Developer or his loyal suck-ups, voted overwhelmingly to oust the previous yes men commissioners and their 25 percent tax increase (mine was 28 percent).
The new commissioners were elected to address this ridiculous increase and the equally ridiculous low impact fee the developer pays per housing unit. The owners of these new housing units and area businesses are the ones that will be using 95 percent of the new roads and infrastructure these impact fees pay for. And all these whining business leaders are going to continue to profit enormously from the new homes.
So why are the residents north of SR 44, and especially the residents north of 466 and 466A, who will rarely if ever use these roads being asked to foot the bill? Where the Hell was all the outrage from all these businesses we support when they raised our taxes? These two Daily Sun articles tell us over and over that “Tax Increases” will destroy the county and “cripple business growth.” Give me a break. Apparently, according to the Daily Sun and these business leaders, the current increase in impact fees is very bad, but the 25 percent increase on residents was very good. Talk about hypocrisy.
Why was this commission meeting so far south away from the voters most affected? It was very convenient to be so close to construction sites so all of those construction vehicles and pickup trucks could take up all the parking spaces. Gee, I wonder who could have coordinated all of that.
So now it’s clear the Developer has chosen to try to control and intimidate the newly elected commissioners through attacks using their newspaper and their loyal and wealthy business partners, as well as stacking commission meetings. When the “State” controls the press they will always use it to try to control and contain their opponents.
By the way, I have been here long enough to remember the substantial tax increase they wanted to fund the first hospital. It couldn’t possibly be built without the new tax the Daily Sun told us over and over. Well we voted the tax down and guess what, the hospital was built and doing quite well. Now we hear that the new hospital would be in jeopardy if we increase the impact fee. More BS, just like the rest of it.”

Luke Courtemanche
Village of Haciendas of Mission Hills

[kappy]

I just began reading this thread and after going through two pages, it became obvious to me what is happening. The same people who parked their dump trucks in the parking lot on Tuesday, have joined to spread the same fear that the paper is spreading. Doom and gloom? I doubt it. The $1458 increase in the impact fee of each new home will be passed on to the buyer of the new homes that the developer is building. Why? Because we live in a beautiful community and an additional $1500 will not stop anyone interested in TV from buying a home. Oh, businesses will no longer come to Sumter County, they declare. Wrong again, the businesses will continue to go where the population is. TV has been #1 in growth for the past 11 years. Do you honestly believe that $1500 per home is going to change that? If you do, I have a bridge I’d like to sell you. Remember, an impact fee is a one time charge. A tax increase, unless reversed, is a charge EVERY year you own a house in Sumter County.

Send an email to the three Commissioners who were elected on a platform to roll back the 25% tax increase. Show them that their priority should be the voters of Sumter County. They had the courage to run for the office. They should have the courage to “do the right thing!”

[dadoiron]

How big are the impact fees that would keep UF Health from opening a third facility here? They stand to make millions off The Villages. I can't believe that some fees will keep them from coming. And its ridiculous to expect existing residents to fund infrastructure for future residents. In any other planned community, the developer would pay for the infrastructure, and recoup his $$ upon sale of the new homes. This is just another way for the Villages Developer to make even more of a profit, off the backs of existing residents.

No more subsidies for the Villages Developer!

[Mmhrdh0529]

I can’t remember the exact numbers but if you look at other developments through out the county and in Florida the villages pay a small amount compared to other developments. I remember this being brought up when they raised our real estate taxes.

[Villages Kahuna]

As another poster noted, the original post by OP is little more than a repetition of the points cited in The Daily Sun. For those of you who are either new residents or haven’t noticed, The Daily Sun is little more than a megaphone for the Developer.

Without a legitimate newspaper in The Villages, that means you should do your own research on this subject or seek sources of information. With careful reading this site is a pretty good place to get the different points of view on the subject. But read the posts carefully. Discard short ‘pithy’ posts that don’t appear thoughtful. Read all sides of the question, all opinions. And don’t necessarily believe the statistics posted here unless they are well-referenced.

[Love2Swim]

Is it worse that I am Miller’s wife than the developers own the Daily Fun?

I don’t know this person. 😊

“ To the Editor:

What a load of BS. Talk about state-controlled media. The Villages Daily Sun, owned, operated, and controlled by The Villages developer has sunk to new lows.
I don’t think you could see more one-sided reporting and attack propaganda media reporting in state-controlled Russia or China.
Wednesday’s “the world is coming to an end” article was so blatantly slanted and self serving, it was almost comical.
And then they doubled down in Thursday’s paper. Wow, complete arrogance. They obviously believe we are indeed that stupid. They had quotes from Villages officials, and of course all their business partners who contributed to the ousted commissioner’s campaigns and are now lining up to vilify the new commissioners, no doubt at the urging of the master.
“We the People” not the Developer or his loyal suck-ups, voted overwhelmingly to oust the previous yes men commissioners and their 25 percent tax increase (mine was 28 percent).
The new commissioners were elected to address this ridiculous increase and the equally ridiculous low impact fee the developer pays per housing unit. The owners of these new housing units and area businesses are the ones that will be using 95 percent of the new roads and infrastructure these impact fees pay for. And all these whining business leaders are going to continue to profit enormously from the new homes.
So why are the residents north of SR 44, and especially the residents north of 466 and 466A, who will rarely if ever use these roads being asked to foot the bill? Where the Hell was all the outrage from all these businesses we support when they raised our taxes? These two Daily Sun articles tell us over and over that “Tax Increases” will destroy the county and “cripple business growth.” Give me a break. Apparently, according to the Daily Sun and these business leaders, the current increase in impact fees is very bad, but the 25 percent increase on residents was very good. Talk about hypocrisy.
Why was this commission meeting so far south away from the voters most affected? It was very convenient to be so close to construction sites so all of those construction vehicles and pickup trucks could take up all the parking spaces. Gee, I wonder who could have coordinated all of that.
So now it’s clear the Developer has chosen to try to control and intimidate the newly elected commissioners through attacks using their newspaper and their loyal and wealthy business partners, as well as stacking commission meetings. When the “State” controls the press they will always use it to try to control and contain their opponents.
By the way, I have been here long enough to remember the substantial tax increase they wanted to fund the first hospital. It couldn’t possibly be built without the new tax the Daily Sun told us over and over. Well we voted the tax down and guess what, the hospital was built and doing quite well. Now we hear that the new hospital would be in jeopardy if we increase the impact fee. More BS, just like the rest of it.”

Luke Courtemanche
Village of Haciendas of Mission Hills

:bigbow:

[golfing eagles]

OK, 68 posts so far, the majority of which seems to express the wish that "the developer" gets stuck with the impact fees. Reality check-----that will never happen. What happens is the price of the new homes go up by that amount. Period. And since even a full 2300/home is less than 1% of the sales price, it will not have a negative impact on sales.

New development requires new infrastructure, the debate is over who benefits and who pays. You might argue that "the developer" benefits, but they are only the middlemen. Impact fees are generally going to be paid by the buyer of a new home or business, the property tax by all property owners.

Some infrastructure (sewer, residential roads, water supply) are primarily of benefit to the new homeowner. Some infrastructure (bridges, tunnels, MMPs) benefit primarily Villagers. And some (shopping plazas, new employment) benefit non-villagers as well). So how to divide the cost?

Taxes? History shows that Sumter County had a high millage rate 20 years ago and later that tax was reduced. Why? Broader tax base. With 20,000 new homes planned south of 44 at about 3,000 tax/year, that's 60 million dollars in increased revenue for the county----AND THAT IS THE PRIMARY BENEFIT TO ALL COUNTY RESIDENTS. The "25% tax increase" can be quite temporary with those numbers.

Impact fees? That puts the burden on a much smaller segment of the population (new homeowners, NOT "the developer"). But then they would be subsidizing this huge increase in the tax base for everyone else in the county. And it would be a disincentive to new business.

Combination of both? Probably a formula could be worked out

I think it is naive to think "the developer" has organized this "vast conspiracy" to artificially keep impact fees low, since they won't be paying them anyway.

[Astron]

Yes this is my concern. Additionally the Pandemic has caused harm to retail and restaurants in our community. I don’t think this year is the time to consider a large increase that will directly and negatively impact them.

Impact fees are only going to effect new construction, not existing businesses. If the impact fees reduce new business moving into TV, a dubious claim, that will likely help existing businesses. Since most areas in Florida have impact fees, I think a good question is how do Sumter County’s impact fees compare to the existing fees in other counties the State? It only will drive way business if the fees are substantially higher than neighboring countries.

[dewilson58]

I think a good question is how do Sumter County’s impact fees compare to the existing fees in other counties the State? .
Google it, you will have your answer. :ohdear:

[dewilson58]

Send an email to the three Commissioners who were elected on a platform to roll back the 25% tax increase. Show them that their priority should be the voters of Sumter County. They had the courage to run for the office. They should have the courage to “do the right thing!”
The silly three (and silly voters) have not figured out how to replace the $50mil/year if the 25% is rolled back.:shocked:

[golfing eagles]

The silly three (and silly voters) have not figured out how to replace the $50mil/year if the 25% is rolled back.:shocked:

Not immediately, but as I posted above, the 60 million in increased tax base will cover it

[biker1]

The announced plans are actually for a bit more than 60,000 new homes south of 44. If the plans come to fruition, The Villages will essentially double in size over the next 25 years. On a slightly different subject, since about 80% of Sumter County is The Villages and the continued expansion will be primarily from retired folks without children, it makes me wonder what they do/will do with the school tax revenue.



Taxes? History shows that Sumter County had a high millage rate 20 years ago and later that tax was reduced. Why? Broader tax base. With 20,000 new homes planned south of 44 at about 3,000 tax/year, that's 60 million dollars in increased revenue for the county----AND THAT IS THE PRIMARY BENEFIT TO ALL COUNTY RESIDENTS. The "25% tax increase" can be quite temporary with those numbers.

[MIskra]

I am a resident of Sumter County. I attended this meeting at the Everglades Rec Center. There were lots of residents in attendance. There was additional parking at the Publix next door to the rec center, so please don't believe Oren Miller's wife's claim that residents were not able to attend. One thing that the commissioners disclosed in this meeting is that the county cannot disproportionally target a single business, or category of businesses, and impose tax increases on just them. It’s against the law. We all need to accept the fact that every business in our county will be affected by raising road impact fees. It's not just about The Developer. It's not just about the Villages. The cost of building EVERYTHING will increase, as well as the cost of leasing any type of facility. It was heartbreaking to listen to the stress from all the hard-working young people who are scared as hell that the rug is going to be pulled out from under them. Even a guy who just makes T-shirts for a living. Put yourselves in their shoes. Remember how stressful it was when you were young and working to achieve your goals. Can you recall the anxiety that you felt when the success of your employer or small business was in jeopardy? All these increases will be passed on to you, the consumer, in everything that you purchase. Many businesses are still struggling to recover from COVID, and when they say that this could put them out of business, believe them. Our restaurants, retailers and grocery stores are at risk. Our small businesses and contractors are at risk. Our hospitals and medical clinics are at risk. Affordable housing for young families, working professionals, and retirees are at risk. This is a big deal.

[Bill14564]

I am a resident of Sumter County. I attended this meeting at the Everglades Rec Center. There were lots of residents in attendance. There was additional parking at the Publix next door to the rec center, so please don't believe Oren Miller's wife's claim that residents were not able to attend. One thing that the commissioners disclosed in this meeting is that the county cannot disproportionally target a single business, or category of businesses, and impose tax increases on just them. It’s against the law. We all need to accept the fact that every business in our county will be affected by raising road impact fees. It's not just about The Developer. It's not just about the Villages. The cost of building EVERYTHING will increase, as well as the cost of leasing any type of facility. It was heartbreaking to listen to the stress from all the hard-working young people who are scared as hell that the rug is going to be pulled out from under them. Even a guy who just makes T-shirts for a living. Put yourselves in their shoes. Remember how stressful it was when you were young and working to achieve your goals. Can you recall the anxiety that you felt when the success of your employer or small business was in jeopardy? All these increases will be passed on to you, the consumer, in everything that you purchase. Many businesses are still struggling to recover from COVID, and when they say that this could put them out of business, believe them. Our restaurants, retailers and grocery stores are at risk. Our small businesses and contractors are at risk. Our hospitals and medical clinics are at risk. Affordable housing for young families, working professionals, and retirees are at risk. This is a big deal.

Remember, the impact fees affect new construction; they should not affect existing structures. The restaurants, retailers, grocery stores, hospitals, and clinics I go to all exist and will not be paying any increased impact fees.

Of course, any expansion of these into new structures would be affected by higher fees.

Also, a large amount of new home construction without additional grocery stores means my store will become more crowded. On the other hand, a large amount of new home construction will be a huge draw for new businesses.

[dewilson58]

Not immediately, but as I posted above, the 60 million in increased tax base will cover it
Yes Dear, but you are comparing Apples & Cheeseburgers.
Your $60mil will take about 15 to 20 years.
By then, other expenses and inflation will eat up the 25%.
Temporary it won't be.

[airstreamingypsy]

Please explain how someone living in the greater Spanish Springs area, who’s property taxes are subsiding the costs created by development happening south of 44, are having their quality of life improved???

I live off 466A and I assure you my quality of life is diminishing because of all the development happening in Wildwood, and my taxes were increased 25% to have my quality of life diminished.

[Advogado]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

Do you work for the Developer or one of his suppliers?

This is a regurgitation of the BS being spewed by the Developer through his newspaper (and through his suppliers when he had them pack the last County Commission meeting, keeping out the public by filling up the parking lot with their heavy equipment). It is BS that was rejected by voters in the last election by a 2 to 1 margin when they elected the EMS Team (Estep, Miller, and Search)--tossing out three of the Developer's five puppet Commissioners in an effort to clean up the cesspool that was the County Commission.

Unfortunately, for reasons that are not clear, the E member of the EMS team is not fulfilling his campaign promise to roll back the 25% property tax increase and compensate for the lost revenue by requiring the Developer to pay for his own county infrastructure. He is handing the Developer millions of dollars, at taxpayer expense, just by delaying even consideration of reasonable impact fees. If reasonable impact fees are never implemented, he will be handing the Developer hundreds of millions of dollars at taxpayer expense.

Kudos to Commissioners Gary Search and Oren Miller for keeping their promise to the voters.

Commissioner Estep owes us an explanation and an apology. He needs to change his mind, fulfill his campaign promise, and vote to immediately proceed with our tax cut and implementation of reasonable impact fees to pay for the tax cut. To put impact fees in perspective, thanks to his Commission puppets, the Developer is only paying 5% of what he would pay in Collier County. We are making up the difference!

[golfing eagles]

Yes Dear, but you are comparing Apples & Cheeseburgers.
Your $60mil will take about 15 to 20 years.
By then, other expenses and inflation will eat up the 25%.
Temporary it won't be.

How does 60 million PER YEAR take 15-20 years to cover a 50 million debt????? Common care math?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And if the previous poster is correct about 60,000 new homes, that's approx. 180 million PER YEAR, so the 25% tax hike could be rolled back in 4 months

[dewilson58]

......the Developer is only paying 5% of what he would pay in Collier County.
Apples & Oranges.
1/2 of Collier is for Schools.
Collier has dollars for parks, etc., which do not apply to TV.
:ho:

[golfing eagles]

Do you work for the Developer or one of his suppliers?

To put impact fees in perspective, thanks to his Commission puppets, the Developer is only paying 5% of what he would pay in Collier County. We are making up the difference!

And if "we" weren't, "we" still would be paying in higher new home prices. "The developer" is never going to eat those impact fees.

What do you think? That a developer in Collier County pays $2300/home impact fee and just takes it out of his profit???? Or is the average home cost $2300 more than it would have otherwise? Get real, "the developer" is not greedy, or evil, just a business entity and a successful one at that, which probably leads to jealousy and the concept that he should pay more because he is "rich". Go out and earn 1 billion yourself and you can pay whatever you want in unnecessary taxes and fees

[Rickanvic]

I have read all 6 pages of comments. This is the first house I have ever purchased with a bond. I did not see one comment about the bond. For fear of sounding stupid (some people can be mean) what is my $30,000.00 bond paying for?

[kappy]

Look at page A8 in today’s paper. Headline reads, “Villages Experiencing Boom in New Businesses.” Even in a pandemic TV continues to be the fastest growing adult community for the last 11 years. Do you think that a $1500 increase in the price of a new home is going to stop people from buying a new home in TV? Yes, that’s the increase the developer will pass on to all new home buyers. And businesses want to be where the population is growing. Current businesses will actually benefit from the impact fee increase since they will get the same tax 25% roll back as homeowners will get. And, since these businesses are already in existence, they will not have to pay any impact fee since that was paid when their office, factory, etc. was built years ago. Let’s stop the gloom and doom talk and just “do what is right.” Impact fees are a one time charge; tax increases are paid every single year when you pay your taxes, unless the increase is rolled back. People, use your common sense.

[biker1]

The 60K homes is correct but there appears to be a little problem with your numbers. You previously mentioned $3000 per home (for taxes). That is probably not a bad number but 1/2 of that is the school tax. The Villages builds about 2200 homes per year so the incremental county tax revenue is about $3+ million per year, if they continue at that same pace.

How does 60 million PER YEAR take 15-20 years to cover a 50 million debt????? Common care math?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And if the previous poster is correct about 60,000 new homes, that's approx. 180 million PER YEAR, so the 25% tax hike could be rolled back in 4 months

[biker1]

Where did you get the $1500 number from?

Look at page A8 in today’s paper. Headline reads, “Villages Experiencing Boom in New Businesses.” Even in a pandemic TV continues to be the fastest growing adult community for the last 11 years. Do you think that a $1500 increase in the price of a new home is going to stop people from buying a new home in TV? Yes, that’s the increase the developer will pass on to all new home buyers. And businesses want to be where the population is growing. Current businesses will actually benefit from the impact fee increase since they will get the same tax 25% roll back as homeowners will get. And, since these businesses are already in existence, they will not have to pay any impact fee since that was paid when their office, factory, etc. was built years ago. Let’s stop the gloom and doom talk and just “do what is right.” Impact fees are a one time charge; tax increases are paid every single year when you pay your taxes, unless the increase is rolled back. People, use your common sense.

[biker1]

Do a search on Goldwingnut. I believe he has some posts where he goes into detail on which infrastructure is funded by the bonds.

I have read all 6 pages of comments. This is the first house I have ever purchased with a bond. I did not see one comment about the bond. For fear of sounding stupid (some people can be mean) what is my $30,000.00 bond paying for?

[golfing eagles]

The 60K homes is correct but there appears to be a little problem with your numbers. You previously mentioned $3000 per home (for taxes). That is probably not a bad number but 1/2 of that is the school tax. The Villages builds about 2200 homes per year so the incremental county tax revenue is about $3+ million per year, if they continue at that same pace.

Point conceded. So 3 million year 1, 6 million year 2 = 9 million first 2 years, 18 million for 3 years, 30 million for 4 years, 45 million in 5 years.

So it might take 5 years to pay back the 50 million in original infrastructure expense, but after that it's all gravy to Sumter County residents

I'm sure there are some here who think "the developer' should just write a check for 50 million to the county, well.........:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rot fl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bogie Shooter]

I have read all 6 pages of comments. This is the first house I have ever purchased with a bond. I did not see one comment about the bond. For fear of sounding stupid (some people can be mean) what is my $30,000.00 bond paying for?

Infrastructure of your village.
If you want to do a little research......do a search on this site. Or go to Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org).

[Jokomo]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.


It looks like the Developer is trying to undermine the will of the voters, after failing to do so during the election. It’s time to end this corporate welfare and let the market set the standard.

[biker1]

Yes, the incremental amounts do add up with time. Keep in mind that some of the revenue will be needed for services for the continually growing population and presumably cannot be all applied to infrastructure. I would like to see an analysis from the county of how much the new construction impact fees would need to increase in order to rollback the 25% county tax increase of 2 years ago. I suspect that increasing the impact fee to $5K (a SWAG) would not impact sales (that would be a 2% increase on average and I agree that the cost would be passed through to the buyer). I have no idea what real number would be needed, which is why an analysis from the County would be nice to see.

Point conceded. So 3 million year 1, 6 million year 2 = 9 million first 2 years, 18 million for 3 years, 30 million for 4 years, 45 million in 5 years.

So it might take 5 years to pay back the 50 million in original infrastructure expense, but after that it's all gravy to Sumter County residents

I'm sure there are some here who think "the developer' should just write a check for 50 million to the county, well.........:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rot fl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Vernon Hud]

YES>>>>>Let the builder pay them, and they will pass it on to the home owners. And by the way, this community is growing to fast anyway, and some people always say you can move. Well, I think we all know that, we did move here for a better retirement, but why should we pay for these sweetheart deals for the developer to keep lining their pockets. When we bought here in 2007, the builder was worth 3 Billion dollars then , can you imagine what they are worth now. It is the same old story with the rich, if I cry enough, I will eventually get my way.

[dewilson58]

How does 60 million PER YEAR take 15-20 years to cover a 50 million debt????? Common care math?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And if the previous poster is correct about 60,000 new homes, that's approx. 180 million PER YEAR, so the 25% tax hike could be rolled back in 4 months


They are building 2,000/3000 homes per year............it will take years to get to 20,000 homes. 20,000 (or the new 60,000) WILL NOT be built in one year.



Also, It's not $50mil in debt, it's $50mil in increased taxes every year (generated by the 25%)

[golfing eagles]

YES>>>>>Let the builder pay them, and they will pass it on to the home owners. And by the way, this community is growing to fast anyway, and some people always say you can move. Well, I think we all know that, we did move here for a better retirement, but why should we pay for these sweetheart deals for the developer to keep lining their pockets. When we bought here in 2007, the builder was worth 3 Billion dollars then , can you imagine what they are worth now. It is the same old story with the rich, if I cry enough, I will eventually get my way.

And you care how rich the developer is, because........

Remember, the developer will just pass any impact fees along, just as you said, so I've lost the point you were trying to make, if any

[tophcfa]

Is it worse that I am Miller’s wife than the developers own the Daily Fun?

I don’t know this person. 😊

“ To the Editor:

What a load of BS. Talk about state-controlled media. The Villages Daily Sun, owned, operated, and controlled by The Villages developer has sunk to new lows.
I don’t think you could see more one-sided reporting and attack propaganda media reporting in state-controlled Russia or China.
Wednesday’s “the world is coming to an end” article was so blatantly slanted and self serving, it was almost comical.
And then they doubled down in Thursday’s paper. Wow, complete arrogance. They obviously believe we are indeed that stupid. They had quotes from Villages officials, and of course all their business partners who contributed to the ousted commissioner’s campaigns and are now lining up to vilify the new commissioners, no doubt at the urging of the master.
“We the People” not the Developer or his loyal suck-ups, voted overwhelmingly to oust the previous yes men commissioners and their 25 percent tax increase (mine was 28 percent).
The new commissioners were elected to address this ridiculous increase and the equally ridiculous low impact fee the developer pays per housing unit. The owners of these new housing units and area businesses are the ones that will be using 95 percent of the new roads and infrastructure these impact fees pay for. And all these whining business leaders are going to continue to profit enormously from the new homes.
So why are the residents north of SR 44, and especially the residents north of 466 and 466A, who will rarely if ever use these roads being asked to foot the bill? Where the Hell was all the outrage from all these businesses we support when they raised our taxes? These two Daily Sun articles tell us over and over that “Tax Increases” will destroy the county and “cripple business growth.” Give me a break. Apparently, according to the Daily Sun and these business leaders, the current increase in impact fees is very bad, but the 25 percent increase on residents was very good. Talk about hypocrisy.
Why was this commission meeting so far south away from the voters most affected? It was very convenient to be so close to construction sites so all of those construction vehicles and pickup trucks could take up all the parking spaces. Gee, I wonder who could have coordinated all of that.
So now it’s clear the Developer has chosen to try to control and intimidate the newly elected commissioners through attacks using their newspaper and their loyal and wealthy business partners, as well as stacking commission meetings. When the “State” controls the press they will always use it to try to control and contain their opponents.
By the way, I have been here long enough to remember the substantial tax increase they wanted to fund the first hospital. It couldn’t possibly be built without the new tax the Daily Sun told us over and over. Well we voted the tax down and guess what, the hospital was built and doing quite well. Now we hear that the new hospital would be in jeopardy if we increase the impact fee. More BS, just like the rest of it.”

Luke Courtemanche
Village of Haciendas of Mission Hills

I am guessing the editor used the above letter to wipe his butt. If the letter was published in the Daily Sun, the editor would be looking for a new job.

[fastboat]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

Boy they got to you didn't they? Just how is raising the developer's impact fees going to affect businesses or the UF hospital for that matter? If it affects anything it will be the cost of new house being built below Rt 44 by a couple hundred dollars because the developer refuses to take anything less than the $100K+ profit they make on each and every house they sell. Wake up. I don't begrudge them making a profit but how much is enough? They're all BILLIONAIRES already?

[biker1]

I doubt an increase of "a couple of hundred dollars" is going to accomplish anything. The 25% increase in the County Tax two years ago increased the revenues by about $48M. If you are trying to replace that with impact fees on residential construction only, you would need to increase the impact fee by about $22K (per new home). I'm not sure that is the whole story, which I why I would like to see some perspective from the County.

Boy they got to you didn't they? Just how is raising the developer's impact fees going to affect businesses or the UF hospital for that matter? If it affects anything it will be the cost of new house being built below Rt 44 by a couple hundred dollars because the developer refuses to take anything less than the $100K+ profit they make on each and every house they sell. Wake up. I don't begrudge them making a profit but how much is enough? They're all BILLIONAIRES already?

[EviesGP]

Agree(with above). The Impact Fees and the 25% tax increase are not precisely related.

The Impact Fees are/have been an ongoing concern, as the developer has been allowed to pay a reduced portion. I think this is wrong, as the developer planned, purchased, and executed this expansion, without us tax payers having input(only the commissioners, whom encouraged it). Hence, the burden should be put on the developer, who has every right to pass that on to the purchaser. Never have I seen a place, where a developer proposes a development to a town or municipality(county), have it approved, and then pass the impact costs onto other areas of the county???

As for the 25% tax increase, the Impact Fees are only a portion of that. There were many other items included. Like, pay increases for themselves. School Resource Officers(SRO), which were already (mostly) being provided, but they opted to add more staff, to cover it, now that the state law came into effect. Yada Yada Yada.
Regardless, you can argue for and against some of these initiatives, and determine which are important and worthy of a tax increase. My issue is/was, that they were ALL piled into one omnibus spending bill with very little debate?! Again, I have never seen anything like it? Even in a very liberal(tax heavy) state that I came from, a 25% increase in one year would be totally unacceptable! Regardless of the tax liability history of the county, that is VERY POOR planning on their parts, to wait and decide this increase was needed all at once?! And, when questioned, they stated it was all necessary. THEN, they decide to reduce it? Just what kind of planning was really done??? So, yes. They can opt to roll back some of the 25%, and if some of those initiatives are defunded, those agencies will have to make tough budgetary decisions, like everyone else.
NOTE: I love TV, and all it has to offer. And I am NOT anti-developer. I love what the Morse's have done. And I am quite disappointed that this issue has been brought into "Florida's Friendliest Hometown".

[Advogado]

And if "we" weren't, "we" still would be paying in higher new home prices. "The developer" is never going to eat those impact fees.

What do you think? That a developer in Collier County pays $2300/home impact fee and just takes it out of his profit???? Or is the average home cost $2300 more than it would have otherwise? Get real, "the developer" is not greedy, or evil, just a business entity and a successful one at that, which probably leads to jealousy and the concept that he should pay more because he is "rich". Go out and earn 1 billion yourself and you can pay whatever you want in unnecessary taxes and fees
That is nuts. Sure, the Developer will pass along as much of the higher impact fee as market forces will allow, but probably not 100% and he will take a profit hit. Why do you think he is fighting so hard to keep his sweetheart deal?

But whether he passes on his costs or not is no concern to us, the current residents. The new residences are causing the additional infrastructure, not us. If new house prices go up, so what? It will increase the value of our homes. In the last election, we overwhelmingly decided we want our 25% property tax hike rolled back!

[kappy]

The developer currently pays $972 per new home built. If the 100% impact fee is $2430. The difference is $1458. I just rounded to $1500 , which we all know will be passed on to the buyer of the new home.

[Advogado]

Apples & Oranges.
1/2 of Collier is for Schools.
Collier has dollars for parks, etc., which do not apply to TV.
:ho:

No, it is apples and apples, for illustrative purposes. It illustrates the approximate size of the Developer's sweetheart deal when he only pays 40% of appropriate road infrastructure costs.

Collier County requires developers to pay for ALL their infrastructure: roads, libraries, government buildings, fire stations and equipment, parks, etc. The Developer, thanks to his puppet Commissioner, only pays for roads and then only 40% of his share. You, the other current residents, and I are making up the shortfall. This amounts to us giving the Developer hundreds of millions of dollars.

Certainly, I don't have a number as to exactly how much the Villages Developer should be paying, but it is crystal clear that he has set up a sweetheart deal for himself. Calculating the appropriate amount for him to pay is why impact-fee studies are conducted and why one needs to be done for all infrastructure (in addition to roads) in Sumter County.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And you care how rich the developer is, because........

Remember, the developer will just pass any impact fees along, just as you said, so I've lost the point you were trying to make, if any

The developer will pass the impact fee along to the new homeowner. That fee will be paid once, and it'll be however more more than whatever they are paying for the current $900 impact fee being imposed on that same property now. Once that finite dollar amount is paid, it never has to be paid again.

Compare to an increase in taxes, which has to be paid every year, and will easily exceed the *increase* in the already-existing one-time impact fee within 5 years.

Anyone already living in the Villages, OR looking for a resale and not new construction, will NOT have to absorb the developer's cost of the impact fee, because there exists no impact fee on already-existing homes.

The ONLY people affected by the impact fees are builders (and therefore) buyers of new construction. They are affected by it ONCE.

Who is affected by increased taxes? EVERYONE living in the county. And they will pay it EVERY YEAR.

That's why I'm for a lower tax increase, and a higher impact fee.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The developer currently pays $972 per new home built. If the 100% impact fee is $2430. The difference is $1458. I just rounded to $1500 , which we all know will be passed on to the buyer of the new home.

And -only- the buyer of the new home. No one else.

Compare now to the 25% increase which might be as little as $50/year, or might be as much as $1000/year.

For the next 5 years. For every single property owner in the county.

[MIskra]

I just read the Executive Summary from the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners, dated January 5, 2021 with the Subject of "Other Impact Fees than Road Impact Fees (for Direction)." The commissioners are researching the possibility of imposing additional/new impact fees. In this meeting they discussed the following impact fees:
• A fire services impact fee
• A law enforcement impact fee
• An impact fee for the public safety radio system
• A jail and court impact fee
• An animal shelter impact fee
• A recreation impact fee
• A library services impact fee
You can be sure that, just like the roads, more of these hidden fees will have a big impact on your wallet.

[dewilson58]

Collier County requires developers to pay for ALL their infrastructure: roads, libraries, government buildings, fire stations and equipment, parks, etc. The Developer, thanks to his puppet Commissioner, only pays for roads and then only 40% of his share..


:cryin2::cryin2:Apples to Oranges.............The Developer pays for their own parks. The retirement community does not need schools. Libraries are dying.

[Advogado]

I just read the Executive Summary from the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners, dated January 5, 2021 with the Subject of "Other Impact Fees than Road Impact Fees (for Direction)." The commissioners are researching the possibility of imposing additional/new impact fees. In this meeting they discussed the following impact fees:
• A fire services impact fee
• A law enforcement impact fee
• An impact fee for the public safety radio system
• A jail and court impact fee
• An animal shelter impact fee
• A recreation impact fee
• A library services impact fee
You can be sure that, just like the roads, more of these hidden fees will have a big impact on your wallet.

If impact fees are imposed to cover the cost of those items, the "big impact on your wallet" will be a fattening, as our property tax is rolled back when the Developer starts to pay his fair share.

[dewilson58]

To frame this up.......is this the math???.....round numbers......


25% tax increase generated ~$50,000,000 per year.
Let's say there are 2,000 new homes built per year.


That would tell me: It would take an additional $1,000 impact fee to reduce the tax rates 1 out of the 25%.


So if the Impact Fee would increase to $3,000.............county taxes could be reduced 3% to 4% out of the 25% increase (to be revenue neutral).



:popcorn:

[dewilson58]

Developer's sweetheart deal when he only pays 40% of appropriate road infrastructure costs.
Incorrect.
The grossed-up number from the 40% fee is unrelated to the costs South of 44.

[MIskra]

[B]
So if the Impact Fee would increase to $3,000.............county taxes could be reduced 3% to 4% out of the 25% increase (to be revenue neutral).
:popcorn:

Are you aware that funds collected from impact fees cannot be used for operation, maintenance, or repair of capital facilities? Also, impact fees cannot be used as general taxes to fund services or infrastructure beyond the requirements of the specific housing or commercial land development. The county's use of impact fees are very restricted, so I'm not sure that property taxes could be reduced 3 - 4 percent.

[rogerk]

Facts are facts! Just think about it; truth and logic are the facts. You may disagree with the conclusion but you can’t disagree with the facts!

[dewilson58]

Are you aware that funds collected from impact fees cannot be used for operation, maintenance, or repair of capital facilities? Also, impact fees cannot be used as general taxes to fund services or infrastructure beyond the requirements of the specific housing or commercial land development. The county's use of impact fees are very restricted, so I'm not sure that property taxes could be reduced 3 - 4 percent.
Absolutely I'm aware.
Are you aware where the 25% increase dollars went??
That's the whole topic here.

[rogerk]

I live off 466A and I assure you my quality of life is diminishing because of all the development happening in Wildwood, and my taxes were increased 25% to have my quality of life diminished.
Think how much your taxes will increase if they weren’t offset by the businesses that choose to invest and build in Sumter County

[MIskra]

Absolutely I'm aware.
Are you aware where the 25% increase dollars went??
That's the whole topic here.

The point is that there may not be a simple correlation between raising impact fees and lowering property taxes. There are a lot of costs in the county budget that, by law, cannot be funded through impact fees.

[Advogado]

The point is that there may not be a simple correlation between raising impact fees and lowering property taxes. There are a lot of costs in the county budget that, by law, cannot be funded through impact fees.

The voters decided (or we thought we decided) this whole issue in the last election.

By booting out the Developer's puppets and voting in the EMS team, we overwhelmingly voted to increase impact fees and use the revenue to roll back the 25% property-tax increase. How much it can be rolled back (maybe even more than 100%) will depend on the findings of the impact-fee study on infrastructure costs in addition to road costs.

The Developer (and his supporters on this site) are trying to undo the election results.

[BiPartisan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the reduced impact fee applies to residential homes not commercial (review the Sumter County impact fees schedule), and limited to "retirement community" properties, otherwise non retirement communities properties are charged the full fee. The fee for a non retirement community is $2666 and for a retirement community is $972. The difference is $1694. or on a $300,000 home that is a .5% increase. Home prices in the county have increased by approximately 6.1%, so property values far outpace the increase in the additional amount that would be charged to cover the increase in the "road impact" fee and the developer already charges more for a new house today than in the past.
Regarding hurting business in the area... the impact fee is a one time cost at the time of construction permitting, so it would not have a long term affect on the cost of doing business, whereas the increase in property tax (25% increase) is ongoing annually and increases as the tax authority increase the value of the property, therefore ongoing taxes does affect businesses since landlords will pass on the increased cost of property taxes and the companies that own the building will either absorb the increase or increase the cost of goods sold to cover the increase in taxes.
As far as roads that require repairs, much of that is financed through tax collection (property and sales tax) and the gasoline tax we all pay when we purchase gas for our vehicles. If I recall, the county has approved plans for the Villages to build over 100,000 new homes which will drastically increase the tax revenues by millions annually through property tax, increase in gasoline and sales tax.
Increasing the impact fee will not cost the developer, but will be passed on to the purchase by the buyer. Reducing the tax increase will be offset by the impact fee and the additional tax revenues through the increase in the number of households.

[MIskra]

I also remember when the campaigning commissioners and taxpayers were outraged that our incumbent commissioners voted themselves, what was perceived to be, an excessive pay raise. Yet, I have not seen a single one of our newly elected commissioners volunteer to roll back their pay to 2019 levels. It does not take a vote to do that. Each individual commissioner has the ability to request a cut in their pay to whatever they feel is appropriate.

[MIskra]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the reduced impact fee applies to residential homes not commercial (review the Sumter County impact fees schedule), and limited to "retirement community" properties, otherwise non retirement communities properties are charged the full fee.

I am going to respectfully correct you. You are wrong. In the January 12th Commissioner Meeting, which I attended, the commissioners said that it is against the law for the county to disproportionally target a single business, or category of businesses, and impose impact fee increases on just them. As much as many of us would like to impose the increased fee only on The Villages Developer, their proposed increase would impact ALL new construction (they are proposing an increase of 150%). That includes new commercial, industrial, manufacturing, medical, and housing (retirement and non-retirement homes). There is a legitimate concern that this significant increase will stagnate the county's economy. There was an assumption by taxpayers in the last election that simply was not true. I applaud the commissioners who voted to put this on hold so that they can do their due diligence research. In the long term, it will be impossible to shift the tax burden away from residential property owners if anti-business fees keep businesses from investing here.

[Bill14564]

...

In the long term, it will be impossible to shift the tax burden away from residential property owners if anti-business fees keep businesses from investing here.

Anti-business fees? That's an interesting way to characterize the additional cost that a new structure (home, restaurant, warehouse) has on the infrastructure.

Let's remember that the current fee are actually a 60% discount off the actual cost. "Raising" the fees is actually just doing away with a benefit that new development currently receives.

If Publix had a 60% off sale they would go out of business. In Sumter county they simply passed that on to the homeowners.

When my introductory offer ends with Xfinity I don't accuse them of raising prices, I accept that I was getting a break for the first year of service. And yes, I might decide that their regular price is too expensive and move my business elsewhere.

On the idea that businesses will move elsewhere: Yes, that's possible, but turning your back on 100,000+ customers isn't going to be easy. And if "elsewhere" is over to the neighboring county where impact fees are so much less then I guess I'll have to use the car rather than the golf cart.

(I am not unsympathetic to commercial establishments - the impact fees for those appear to be very high at the 40% level and would be exorbitant at the 100% level. There must be some reasonable comprise)

[Advogado]

I am going to correct you. You are wrong. In the January 12th Commissioner Meeting, which I attended, the commissioners said that it is against the law for the county to disproportionally target a single business, or category of businesses, and impose impact fee increases on just them. As much as many of us would like to impose the increased fee only on The Villages Developer, their proposed increase would impact ALL new construction (they are proposing an increase of 150%). That includes new commercial, industrial, manufacturing, medical, and housing (retirement and non-retirement homes). There is a legitimate concern that this significant increase will stagnate the county's economy. There was an assumption by taxpayers in the last election that simply was not true. I applaud the commissioners who voted to put this on hold so that they can do their due diligence research. In the long term, it will be impossible to shift the tax burden away from residential property owners if anti-business fees keep businesses from investing here.

Counties with higher impact fees do just fine. They are attractive places to invest because property taxes are correspondingly lower. If you really want the truth about the economic effect of impact fees, discount the BS being spread by the Daily Sun and the Developer's supporters on this site and read the analysis on the Flagler county website: Impact Fees FAQ: What Are They, Who Pays Them and Why | Development and Taxes (https://flaglerlive.com/44763/impact-fees-faq/)

In any event, this whole issue was decided (or should have been decided) in last year's election with the ouster of the Developer's puppet Commissioners and the election of the EMS team.

[MIskra]

Counties with higher impact fees do just fine. .

There seems to be an attitude amongst us Villagers that because The Villages is a large, growing retirement-community, then commercial, industrial, manufacturing, and medical facilities should be scrambling to set up shop here. Let’s take a reality check. We are nothing more than a huge retirement community where most people are living on social security and Medicare surrounded by agricultural farmland. We have an undiversified population burdened by an undiversified tax base. If raising impact fees discourages business growth, this situation will never change. We are asking the commissioners to play Russian roulette with our county’s economy. We should be asking them to maintain their business-friendly policies and start looking at the other half of the equation by finding ways to reduce government spending instead of raising taxes and imposing hidden fees.

[kappy]

Asking the current Commissioners to roll back the salary increase voted on by the previous Commissioners is such a narrow-minded view of the entire situation. How petty can you get? The 25% tax increase on all homeowners in Sumter County in 2019 was just wrong. Three new Commissioners committed to roll that tax back. Now is time for action. Honor your commitment. If you recall, during the public meetings where the tax was ready to be enacted, the five Commissioners heard hours of arguments against the increase. Did they actually give any response to the audience during those meetings? No, they just turned around and voted unanimously for the increase. That increase can be rolled back if the three new commissioners have the courage of their convictions. Don’t wait until July. Do it Now!

[Magic19]

AMEN..........brother

[BiPartisan]

I am going to respectfully correct you. You are wrong. In the January 12th Commissioner Meeting, which I attended, the commissioners said that it is against the law for the county to disproportionally target a single business, or category of businesses, and impose impact fee increases on just them. As much as many of us would like to impose the increased fee only on The Villages Developer, their proposed increase would impact ALL new construction (they are proposing an increase of 150%). That includes new commercial, industrial, manufacturing, medical, and housing (retirement and non-retirement homes). There is a legitimate concern that this significant increase will stagnate the county's economy. There was an assumption by taxpayers in the last election that simply was not true. I applaud the commissioners who voted to put this on hold so that they can do their due diligence research. In the long term, it will be impossible to shift the tax burden away from residential property owners if anti-business fees keep businesses from investing here.

Thank you for your comment and clarification given at the meeting. Unfortunately I do not agree with their assessment. Florida law allows the County to impose a less fee specifically for Retirement or age restricted communities. It is not mandatory so all they would be doing is eliminating the special category and associated reduction and charge the full amount that non retirement/age restricted pay for the impact fees. Otherwise don't increase the fees for just one group, but eliminate that special category completely, it was optional to add it in the first place.
Just my opinion.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Thank you for your comment and clarification given at the meeting. Unfortunately I do not agree with their assessment. Florida law allows the County to impose a less fee specifically for Retirement or age restricted communities. It is not mandatory so all they would be doing is eliminating the special category and associated reduction and charge the full amount that non retirement/age restricted pay for the impact fees. Otherwise don't increase the fees for just one group, but eliminate that special category completely, it was optional to add it in the first place.
Just my opinion.

Yeah that was my take-away: that the 150% increase is the RESULT of eliminating discounts for developers of retirement/age-restricted properties. They weren't imposing a 150% increase on all development.

[MIskra]

Thank you for your comment and clarification given at the meeting. Unfortunately I do not agree with their assessment. Florida law allows the County to impose a less fee specifically for Retirement or age restricted communities. It is not mandatory so all they would be doing is eliminating the special category and associated reduction and charge the full amount that non retirement/age restricted pay for the impact fees. Otherwise don't increase the fees for just one group, but eliminate that special category completely, it was optional to add it in the first place.
Just my opinion.

My interpretation of what was said at the meeting is that the fees are currently discounted for all categories, not just the category of "Retirement Community" (applying a discount to just one category would have also been against the law). I believe that the intent of the discount was to encourage business and residential growth (including affordable housing for non-retirement homes). At the meeting, they did not talk about eliminating the category of "Retirement Community" but perhaps doing so might not be justifiable in court from developers of all Retirement Communities (I am aware of one other Retirement Community in South Sumter, but there might be more). The link to the Road Impact Study: https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/15135?fileID=35688 The chart on page 25 (Table 8) shows that compared to nearby counties, Sumter's road impact fees are about the same, or higher (with the exception of Pasco).

[Aloha1]

I just began reading this thread and after going through two pages, it became obvious to me what is happening. The same people who parked their dump trucks in the parking lot on Tuesday, have joined to spread the same fear that the paper is spreading. Doom and gloom? I doubt it. The $1458 increase in the impact fee of each new home will be passed on to the buyer of the new homes that the developer is building. Why? Because we live in a beautiful community and an additional $1500 will not stop anyone interested in TV from buying a home. Oh, businesses will no longer come to Sumter County, they declare. Wrong again, the businesses will continue to go where the population is. TV has been #1 in growth for the past 11 years. Do you honestly believe that $1500 per home is going to change that? If you do, I have a bridge I’d like to sell you. Remember, an impact fee is a one time charge. A tax increase, unless reversed, is a charge EVERY year you own a house in Sumter County.

Send an email to the three Commissioners who were elected on a platform to roll back the 25% tax increase. Show them that their priority should be the voters of Sumter County. They had the courage to run for the office. They should have the courage to “do the right thing!”
Oh, please. It isn't just about homes. Read the comments from small business owners. Tens of thousands of dollars of extra tax just to open up. Way to kill our lifestyle.

[Advogado]

Oh, please. It isn't just about homes. Read the comments from small business owners. Tens of thousands of dollars; of extra tax just to open up. Way to kill our lifestyle.
Existing businesses and new businesses moving into existing buildings are unaffected by impact fees, and everybody pays lower property taxes. Research the matter and you will see the counties with higher impact fees do just fine.

Anyway, this whole issue SHOULD have been decided with the election of the EMS team. Your argument lost by a 2 to 1 vote. What is going on now is a carefully orchestrated attempt by the Developer to undo the election.

[Aloha1]

Existing businesses and new businesses moving into existing buildings are unaffected by impact fees, and everybody pays lower property taxes. Research the matter and you will see the counties with higher impact fees do just fine.

Anyway, this whole issue SHOULD have been decided with the election of the EMS team. Your argument lost by a 2 to 1 vote. What is going on now is a carefully orchestrated attempt by the Developer to undo the election.

You got yours but the rest of us get nothing? We're talking about new and different businesses coming here. Why would they if the cost to build is onerous? You got on your high horse about this and it's getting old.

Imagine if there were NO impact fee law in FL. Guess where the money for all the needs of the County would come from. YOU, by way of higher taxes. That's how it's done in most States. Please stop with the conspiracy theories. The Villages is the best thing that ever happened to Sumter County.

[village dreamer]

Why doesn't Sumter issue bonds to pay for the road costs that will be paid for by the increase property taxes on the new future homes? no just add the cost to all new house bonds, whats another grand or two?

[BiPartisan]

Oh, please. It isn't just about homes. Read the comments from small business owners. Tens of thousands of dollars of extra tax just to open up. Way to kill our lifestyle.

Impact fees do not affect small business. They are assessed on new construction only, the damage to small business is the annual taxes. I don't know how this became a small business issue, they very seldom construct their own building. If they rent, the increase in property tax is an issue.

[BiPartisan]

[QUOTE=dewilson58;1888353]To frame this up.......is this the math???.....round numbers......


25% tax increase generated ~$50,000,000 per year.
Let's say there are 2,000 new homes built per year.


That would tell me: It would take an additional $1,000 impact fee to reduce the tax rates 1 out of the 25%.


So if the Impact Fee would increase to $3,000.............county taxes could be reduced 3% to 4% out of the 25% increase (to be revenue neutral).



Perhaps based on the present tax base you are perhaps correct. But adding 100,000 new homes at an average of $3000 in annual property tax the new base is increased by $300,000,000. Not to include the increase in sales tax and gas tax... Also, the development is not just residential, there is a lot of new commercial as well.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Businesses moving into the buildings built by the Morse Family, are not buying the properties. They're renting them. Impact fees will likely be built into their rent. The Morse Family still owns those buildings.

[BiPartisan]

Oh, please. It isn't just about homes. Read the comments from small business owners. Tens of thousands of dollars of extra tax just to open up. Way to kill our lifestyle.

Sorry to ask, but I don't understand how it costs small business tens of thousands of dollars to open..? Extra tax? Where, impact fees are for construction of new facilities, as I said before, small business very seldom build there own facilities, they rent.... I don't understand your concern. Where is the additional cost?

[Aloha1]

Impact fees do not affect small business. They are assessed on new construction only, the damage to small business is the annual taxes. I don't know how this became a small business issue, they very seldom construct their own building. If they rent, the increase in property tax is an issue.

If indeed, a small business leases instead of building, how do you think the builder recoups his cost? Higher lease costs, which may make that small business financially unable to afford the lease. And yes, higher taxes which the small business pays, not the builder. Enjoy your cheap sandwich while you can.

[Bill14564]

If indeed, a small business leases instead of building, how do you think the builder recoups his cost? Higher lease costs, which may make that small business financially unable to afford the lease. And yes, higher taxes which the small business pays, not the builder. Enjoy your cheap sandwich while you can.

And again, existing businesses will not be affected by increasing the impact fee UNLESS it is accompanied by a decrease in the property tax which would only make my sandwich even cheaper.

Yes, an existing business desiring to open a new location would pay more at the new location. It would remain to be seen whether higher costs at a new location would lead to increased prices at an existing location.

[Bilyclub]

Don't forget who owns that brand spanking new industrial park just East of I-75.

[Stu from NYC]

And again, existing businesses will not be affected by increasing the impact fee UNLESS it is accompanied by a decrease in the property tax which would only make my sandwich even cheaper.

Yes, an existing business desiring to open a new location would pay more at the new location. It would remain to be seen whether higher costs at a new location would lead to increased prices at an existing location.

It is the responsibility of the business owner to review all of the costs for operating the business and decides if he can make a reasonable profit at the location.

If we see very few people leasing property it will be obvious that impact fees are too high and they can always be adjusted.

[John41]

It is the responsibility of the business owner to review all of the costs for operating the business and decides if he can make a reasonable profit at the location.

If we see very few people leasing property it will be obvious that impact fees are too high and they can always be adjusted.

Or the developers leases are too costly which is why a lot of commercial property North of 44 is undeveloped. Also the developer insists on being able to review the books of the business something Costco will not permit.

[Bogie Shooter]

Or the developers leases are too costly which is why a lot of commercial property North of 44 is undeveloped. Also the developer insists on being able to review the books of the business something Costco will not permit.

Where is this undeveloped property?
Costco would never consider building within The Villages for many other reasons.

[John41]

Please share this so people can understand what is going on. Thank you....

The Daily Fun decided to post yet again their propaganda so I feel compelled to post yet again the truth.

The sky is NOT falling.

My sources tell me those trucks setting out there during the meeting…. They are brand new trucks purchased to the tune of $500,000 each bought with our tax dollars. It’s estimated that the villages spent 50 Million just last year on new “stuff” and the new building on 470. Which sources tell me is only going to be there for about five years since they plan on putting homes there in five years.

One of the many emails I received…the one that said it best….

“My husband is an employee of one of the Villages subsidiaries. He, along with MANY of his co-workers were strongly urged, and in a lot of cases "expected" to park their work trucks in that parking lot and sit through that meeting. My husband had NO IDEA what any of that was about. It wasn’t until he sent me pictures of the parking lot that I even understood where he was or what "meeting" he had been ordered to attend. He doesn't involve himself in politics at all. He had no idea what he was doing. Other than simply, "reporting for duty for some overtime pay". . He was told if "it" goes thru, they may all be without jobs.”

So… most of the people in that room were paid to be there. Overtime pay. And threatened with jobs if “it” goes through.

Look folks. The Commissioners are NOT raising the taxes on the people. They are raising the impact fees on the developers so they can lower the taxes on the residents giving you and I more money to spend in the stores that they would like to say that will suffer.

Can you explain to me how a restaurant like Blue Fin can suffer from us having more money in our pockets? The shops are not developers and are NOT paying more to the county as the Daily Fun would have people believe. The only way this affects the shops is that we have more pocket money to spend in their stores


If we reduce every property owner’s real estate taxes, maybe they could spend the extra money and help put the 2,000 unemployed people in Sumter County back to work.

Remember when the Daily Fun told us the villages wouldn’t build any farther than 466A? And it did. Remember when The Daily Fun said they wouldn’t build past 44? And they did. Now they want you to believe if they have to pay their fair share and pay for the infrastructure that is actually part of THEIR development then the whole economy will suffer? True, they won’t make the profit on the homes that they were making. I think I read it’s about $1,400 for a $250,000 home. (Which they will pass on to the buyer, bless their hearts). But they will continue building. This is the golden egg. They will continue to build.

The people who were at that meeting never voted for the new commissioners in the first place. Those were the Villages subsidiaries… They don’t care if the taxes go up to build the streets in The Village… They have the money to pay it. They have our money!

Where I come from, when something like The Villages is being built bringing in MORE taxes, our taxes usually go down, NOT up! And to say they haven’t gone up in years so it’s OK… NO, it’s NOT OK. There was no need for the taxes to go up in the first place AND there is more to Sumter County than The Villages. There are roads and infrastructure in South Sumter that need work. We live in a beautiful county. It’s time we have commissioners who care about the whole county and work for ALL the residents and not just the developers. Isn’t that what they promised to do? Isn’t that what they ran on?

The Daily Fun was nice enough to post this picture of their trucks blocking the parking spaces so the residents couldn't get in.

The most accurate post yet.

[ton80]

To understand what the impacts are we need to consider real numbers showing what the annual costs are. Percentages can be very misleading unless they are completely applied correctly. Percentages are often used selectively to distort the true impacts for the presenter's own purposes.

IMO, I believe that the real issue is not simply that the Developer got a sweet deal, but where is Sumter County spending all of the increased ad valorem tax revenue.

The following values come from the Sumter County Budget:

1. Ad valorem Taxes Revenues in FY 2019= 58.8 M$
2. in FY 2020 = 82.1 M$
This an increase of 33.3 M $ EVERY YEAR FORWARD. This increase is a combination effect of increased assessed value (2100 new homes in TV and about 400 outside TV) and increased ad valorem property tax rate

3. No impact fees schedule was shown in in the budget.
The budget indicates 2100 Homes built in the villages that fiscal year. To illustrate the one-time cost of raising the impact fee I will use examples of incremental cost
$1,000 increase in impact fee generates 2.1 M$ for one year
$2,000 increase in impact fee generates 4.2M$ for one year

The reduced impact fee amount is not the cause for the enormous ad valorem property tax increase.

Looking further in the budget, the section on outstanding debt shows the debt going from about $!00M to about 20 M$ in 2032. This is a factor. I did not try to look at the additional projects and additional employee costs, etc.

I agree that the Developer and all other Developers should pay their full share. $1,000 or 2,000 more will have little effect on selling new homes.
Increasing the property tax rates has a larger effect. The ad valorem tax increased from 5.35 mils to 6.43 mils. The total tax rate went from 11 mils to 12 mils call it 1.2% on the assessed value of your house.
200K house x .0012 = $240 $ per year increase
400 K $480 per year ETC

In addition the new homes have increased bonds with relatively high interest rates that add to the new home owners costs. These two costs have a much bigger impact than a 1,000 or 2,000 higher selling price.

The real question is: Where is the extra $33M per year going? Remember this amount will keep increasing each year because more homes are being built unless the tax rates are decreased.

The Commissioners can do us a real service by concentrating on ensuring that the tax revenues are used wisely. If the costs are contained and funds accumulate, tax rates should get reduced. IMHO, if they get a increased impact fee it is helpful a bit, but it is a small effect.

[John41]

To understand what the impacts are we need to consider real numbers showing what the annual costs are. Percentages can be very misleading unless they are completely applied correctly. Percentages are often used selectively to distort the true impacts for the presenter's own purposes.

IMO, I believe that the real issue is not simply that the Developer got a sweet deal, but where is Sumter County spending all of the increased ad valorem tax revenue.

The following values come from the Sumter County Budget:

1. Ad valorem Taxes Revenues in FY 2019= 58.8 M$
2. in FY 2020 = 82.1 M$
This an increase of 33.3 M $ EVERY YEAR FORWARD. This increase is a combination effect of increased assessed value (2100 new homes in TV and about 400 outside TV) and increased ad valorem property tax rate

3. No impact fees schedule was shown in in the budget.
The budget indicates 2100 Homes built in the villages that fiscal year. To illustrate the one-time cost of raising the impact fee I will use examples of incremental cost
$1,000 increase in impact fee generates 2.1 M$ for one year
$2,000 increase in impact fee generates 4.2M$ for one year

The reduced impact fee amount is not the cause for the enormous ad valorem property tax increase.

Looking further in the budget, the section on outstanding debt shows the debt going from about $!00M to about 20 M$ in 2032. This is a factor. I did not try to look at the additional projects and additional employee costs, etc.

I agree that the Developer and all other Developers should pay their full share. $1,000 or 2,000 more will have little effect on selling new homes.
Increasing the property tax rates has a larger effect. The ad valorem tax increased from 5.35 mils to 6.43 mils. The total tax rate went from 11 mils to 12 mils call it 1.2% on the assessed value of your house.
200K house x .0012 = $240 $ per year increase
400 K $480 per year ETC

In addition the new homes have increased bonds with relatively high interest rates that add to the new home owners costs. These two costs have a much bigger impact than a 1,000 or 2,000 higher selling price.

The real question is: Where is the extra $33M per year going? Remember this amount will keep increasing each year because more homes are being built unless the tax rates are decreased.

The Commissioners can do us a real service by concentrating on ensuring that the tax revenues are used wisely. If the costs are contained and funds accumulate, tax rates should get reduced. IMHO, if they get a increased impact fee it is helpful a bit, but it is a small effect.

That $240 property tax increase on the 70,000 Sumter households is $14 million out of their pockets, and subsequently $14million less revenue for the businesses North of 44.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If indeed, a small business leases instead of building, how do you think the builder recoups his cost? Higher lease costs, which may make that small business financially unable to afford the lease. And yes, higher taxes which the small business pays, not the builder. Enjoy your cheap sandwich while you can.

I have the distinct feeling that the Morse Family has a pretty good idea of how to handle their financial interests. If they price their business space too high, they won't get anyone to rent. They won't be pricing themselves out of tenants.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The real question is: Where is the extra $33M per year going? Remember this amount will keep increasing each year because more homes are being built unless the tax rates are decreased.

The Commissioners can do us a real service by concentrating on ensuring that the tax revenues are used wisely. If the costs are contained and funds accumulate, tax rates should get reduced. IMHO, if they get a increased impact fee it is helpful a bit, but it is a small effect.

If funds accumulate, that means they're no longer in debt. That's a good thing. Right now Sumter County is in the red. They have spent, and spent, whether wisely or not, doesn't even matter anymore. What matters is that they have debts. A city with debts is a city that has to make up the loss, and has to get the money from somewhere. Part of the cost of being a municipality needs to include a buffer - call it a roof fund, or a rainy day fund, or "reserves."

Reserves are used when expenses occur that weren't part of any other line-item on the budget. Such as hurricane damage repair expenses. Or sink-hole expenses. Or heck - if there's a fire at one of the municipal buildings. Or some emergency that requires the use of the county sheriff's department to spring into overtime pay.

That's what reserves are for. Many municipalities in the country don't put much emphasis on reserves, they'd rather keep taxes low and create the facade of being good to homeowners. But then when there's an emergency, they have to scramble to find the funds to pay to resolve it or risk their bond rating taking a dive.

[Bilyclub]

To understand what the impacts are we need to consider real numbers showing what the annual costs are. Percentages can be very misleading unless they are completely applied correctly. Percentages are often used selectively to distort the true impacts for the presenter's own purposes.

IMO, I believe that the real issue is not simply that the Developer got a sweet deal, but where is Sumter County spending all of the increased ad valorem tax revenue.

The following values come from the Sumter County Budget:

1. Ad valorem Taxes Revenues in FY 2019= 58.8 M$
2. in FY 2020 = 82.1 M$
This an increase of 33.3 M $ EVERY YEAR FORWARD. This increase is a combination effect of increased assessed value (2100 new homes in TV and about 400 outside TV) and increased ad valorem property tax rate

3. No impact fees schedule was shown in in the budget.
The budget indicates 2100 Homes built in the villages that fiscal year. To illustrate the one-time cost of raising the impact fee I will use examples of incremental cost
$1,000 increase in impact fee generates 2.1 M$ for one year
$2,000 increase in impact fee generates 4.2M$ for one year

The reduced impact fee amount is not the cause for the enormous ad valorem property tax increase.

Looking further in the budget, the section on outstanding debt shows the debt going from about $!00M to about 20 M$ in 2032. This is a factor. I did not try to look at the additional projects and additional employee costs, etc.

I agree that the Developer and all other Developers should pay their full share. $1,000 or 2,000 more will have little effect on selling new homes.
Increasing the property tax rates has a larger effect. The ad valorem tax increased from 5.35 mils to 6.43 mils. The total tax rate went from 11 mils to 12 mils call it 1.2% on the assessed value of your house.
200K house x .0012 = $240 $ per year increase
400 K $480 per year ETC

In addition the new homes have increased bonds with relatively high interest rates that add to the new home owners costs. These two costs have a much bigger impact than a 1,000 or 2,000 higher selling price.

The real question is: Where is the extra $33M per year going? Remember this amount will keep increasing each year because more homes are being built unless the tax rates are decreased.

The Commissioners can do us a real service by concentrating on ensuring that the tax revenues are used wisely. If the costs are contained and funds accumulate, tax rates should get reduced. IMHO, if they get a increased impact fee it is helpful a bit, but it is a small effect.

I thought the tax increase was to pay for the roads South of 44. The county agreed to let the developer build the roads and then the county would reimburse them. Instead of getting bids for the work.

[big guy]

If the builder's dump trucks were the only ones to pay the impact fee, most of the battle would be won.

[Happydaz]

I have the distinct feeling that the Morse Family has a pretty good idea of how to handle their financial interests. If they price their business space too high, they won't get anyone to rent. They won't be pricing themselves out of tenants.

As far as “They won’t be pricing themselves out of tenants,” this may not always be true. The Lofts apartments at Brownwood are an example where they have not rented out even half of the units. Prices are steep for these apartments and garage space is extra. Just take a drive by these apartments and see how little activity is going on.

[golfing eagles]

As far as “They won’t be pricing themselves out of tenants,” this may not always be true. The Lofts apartments at Brownwood are an example where they have not rented out even half of the units. Prices are steep for these apartments and garage space is extra. Just take a drive by these apartments and see how little activity is going on.

Hmmm. Those lofts are such a failure that they are building more of them south of 44 and at Hacienda Hills. Wow, those billionaire Morse's are stupid business people, duplicating failure on a massive scale:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

BTW, do you have a source for stating Brownwood is less than 1/2 rented?? Last I saw there were no more units available, and that was months ago.

[dewilson58]

I thought the tax increase was to pay for the roads South of 44. The county agreed to let the developer build the roads and then the county would reimburse them. Instead of getting bids for the work.
:what:

[dewilson58]

Perhaps based on the present tax base you are perhaps correct. But adding 100,000 new homes at an average of $3000 in annual property tax the new base is increased by $300,000,000. Not to include the increase in sales tax and gas tax... Also, the development is not just residential, there is a lot of new commercial as well.
& if 1,000,000 new homes @ $8000 tax per home, the total is $8,000,000,000.
pointless.

[Bogie Shooter]

As far as “They won’t be pricing themselves out of tenants,” this may not always be true. The Lofts apartments at Brownwood are an example where they have not rented out even half of the units. Prices are steep for these apartments and garage space is extra. Just take a drive by these apartments and see how little activity is going on.

Doing a drive by is hardly the way to determine occupancy.

[ton80]

If funds accumulate, that means they're no longer in debt. That's a good thing. Right now Sumter County is in the red. They have spent, and spent, whether wisely or not, doesn't even matter anymore. What matters is that they have debts. A city with debts is a city that has to make up the loss, and has to get the money from somewhere. Part of the cost of being a municipality needs to include a buffer - call it a roof fund, or a rainy day fund, or "reserves."

Reserves are used when expenses occur that weren't part of any other line-item on the budget. Such as hurricane damage repair expenses. Or sink-hole expenses. Or heck - if there's a fire at one of the municipal buildings. Or some emergency that requires the use of the county sheriff's department to spring into overtime pay.

That's what reserves are for. Many municipalities in the country don't put much emphasis on reserves, they'd rather keep taxes low and create the facade of being good to homeowners. But then when there's an emergency, they have to scramble to find the funds to pay to resolve it or risk their bond rating taking a dive.

I understand all of that. My point is that the Commissioners need to watch how the money is spent. If too much money is continually spent and spent perhaps unwisely as you mentioned, they will continue to add debt to satisfy their appetite. The debt will not be reduced despite the high tax rate increase.
Another point is should we have confidence in County management that did not realize that they had a problem? All of a sudden a large tax increase is necessary. Where is the emergency you allude to? I would like to see where the extra $33.3 M per year is going. Don't you?

[Happydaz]

///

[Happydaz]

Doing a drive by is hardly the way to determine occupancy.

On April 29, 2015 I started a thread that stated that I had heard a report that The Villages was buying land south of SR 44 and that they were planning a major expansion. This was long before any announcement was made by The Villages executives. People made fun of that thread too. Go back and look. I think it was titled “South of 44.

[John41]

On April 29, 2015 I started a thread that stated that I had heard a report that The Villages was buying land south of SR 44 and that they planning a major expansion. This was long before any announcement was made by The Villages executives. People made fun of that thread too. Go back and look. I think it was titled “South of 44.

A drive by especially at night is a good way to determine occupancy but The Villages cheerleaders can not stand criticism of the developer. And I heard from another source the apartments are not renting well.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I understand all of that. My point is that the Commissioners need to watch how the money is spent. If too much money is continually spent and spent perhaps unwisely as you mentioned, they will continue to add debt to satisfy their appetite. The debt will not be reduced despite the high tax rate increase.
Another point is should we have confidence in County management that did not realize that they had a problem? All of a sudden a large tax increase is necessary. Where is the emergency you allude to? I would like to see where the extra $33.3 M per year is going. Don't you?

It isn't "all of a sudden." It was reported about for the past couple of years - that this need has been accumulating steadily. They should have imposed small tax increases every couple of years, but chose not to increase them at all for 14 years. Inflation happens, new costs and needs happen, population (and therefore infrastructure needs) happen, more schools are needed to be built because of more people (remember the Villages aren't the only people who live in Sumter County and they DO hire people with kids, who come to the area for jobs.

So all these expenses have increased, but taxes remained the same for 14 years. Eventually, someone said "hey you know what? We really need to get this under control." And they all agreed, and boom. Tax increase. They had 14 years of inflation to make up for.

But they could have made the increase less, by increasing impact fees. A bigger impact fee, a smaller tax increase. Each contributing more than they did, but none of them bearing the entire burden of the need.

Also, the budget and expenses for the county is a matter of public record. You can see a line-item accounting of it if you want. And, as I mentioned, I live in Lake County. If I felt something in my county wasn't being done efficiently I would absolutely check with the county's public records to confirm/assuage my concerns.

[Advogado]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

jrandall, do you work for the Developer or one of his suppliers?

Your post is a regurgitation of the BS being spewed by the Developer through his newspaper (and through his suppliers when he apparently had them pack the last County Commission meeting-- keeping out the public by filling up the parking lot with their heavy equipment). It is BS that was rejected by voters in the last election by a 2 to 1 margin when they elected the EMS Team (Estep, Miller, and Search)--tossing out three of the Developer's five puppet Commissioners in an effort to clean up the cesspool that was the County Commission.

Unfortunately, for reasons that are not clear, the E member of the EMS team is not fulfilling his campaign promise to roll back the 25% property tax increase and compensate for the lost revenue by requiring the Developer to pay for his own county infrastructure. He is handing the Developer millions of dollars, at taxpayer expense, just by delaying even consideration of reasonable impact fees. If reasonable impact fees are never implemented, Mr. Estep will be handing the Developer hundreds of millions of dollars at taxpayer expense.

Kudos to Commissioners Gary Search and Oren Miller for keeping their promise to the voters.

Commissioner Estep owes us an explanation and an apology. He needs to change his mind, fulfill his campaign promise, and vote to immediately proceed with our tax cut and implementation of reasonable impact fees to pay for the tax cut. To put impact fees in perspective, thanks to his Commission puppets, the Developer is only paying 5% of what he would pay in Collier County. We are making up the difference!

[John41]

jrandall, do you work for the Developer or one of his suppliers?

Your post is a regurgitation of the BS being spewed by the Developer through his newspaper (and through his suppliers when he apparently had them pack the last County Commission meeting-- keeping out the public by filling up the parking lot with their heavy equipment). It is BS that was rejected by voters in the last election by a 2 to 1 margin when they elected the EMS Team (Estep, Miller, and Search)--tossing out three of the Developer's five puppet Commissioners in an effort to clean up the cesspool that was the County Commission.

Unfortunately, for reasons that are not clear, the E member of the EMS team is not fulfilling his campaign promise to roll back the 25% property tax increase and compensate for the lost revenue by requiring the Developer to pay for his own county infrastructure. He is handing the Developer millions of dollars, at taxpayer expense, just by delaying even consideration of reasonable impact fees. If reasonable impact fees are never implemented, Mr. Estep will be handing the Developer hundreds of millions of dollars at taxpayer expense.

Kudos to Commissioners Gary Search and Oren Miller for keeping their promise to the voters.

Commissioner Estep owes us an explanation and an apology. He needs to change his mind, fulfill his campaign promise, and vote to immediately proceed with our tax cut and implementation of reasonable impact fees to pay for the tax cut. To put impact fees in perspective, thanks to his Commission puppets, the Developer is only paying 5% of what he would pay in Collier County. We are making up the difference!

Here is a copy of the email I received from Mr. Estep when I emailed him regarding my support for repealing the 25% property tax increase. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being as I believe more time is needed for fact finding. However by Summer a vote needs to be taken on the rollback.
-------------------

Mr. *********
Thank you for your email. As you may know we have tabled that issue because of the Covid-19 issue, and will revisit the issue in the future. In the meantime, it is my desire to gather as much information as possible to ensure when a decision is made in the future, that it is my best informed decision. Thank you again for your input, it is valued...and respected...Craig

[Advogado]

Here is a copy of the email I received from Mr. Estep when I emailed him regarding my support for repealing the 25% property tax increase.
-------------------

Mr. *********
Thank you for your email. As you may know we have tabled that issue because of the Covid-19 issue, and will revisit the issue in the future. In the meantime, it is my desire to gather as much information as possible to ensure when a decision is made in the future, that it is my best informed decision. Thank you again for your input, it is valued...and respected...Craig
John41, in your icon, you say, "Don't pee on my shoes and tell me it's raining." After that reply from Mr. Estep, check your shoes. Mr. Estep has had over a year to "gather as much information as possible". There is some other reason for his reneging on his campaign promise. I understand that he had a meeting with Developer "Community Relations Vice-President" Gary Lester, at Lester's office, but I would be shocked if that had anything to do with Mr. Estep's vote.

[dewilson58]

Avogado always backs up his opinions with facts. Your snarky remark is off topic and contributes nothing.
Twisting the truth to fit an agenda is not "facts".
He has an apples to oranges comparison with Collier.
Read & Learn.

[dewilson58]

There is something other reason for his reneging on his campaign promise.


Yes.............he just realized the County can not reverse the 25% increase without a plan. The light bulb has not come on for the other two newbie commish's.

[John41]

John41, in your icon, you say, "Don't pee on my shoes and tell me it's raining." After that reply from Mr. Estep, check your shoes. Mr. Estep has had over a year to "gather as much information as possible". There is some other reason for his reneging on his campaign promise. I understand that he had a meeting with Developer "Community Relations Vice-President" Gary Lester, at Lester's office, but I would be shocked if that had anything to do with Mr. Estep's vote.

You are more informed than I am so you are probably correct. What about a recall?
-----------------
According to Fla. Stat. Annotated §100.36(1), "Any member of the governing body of a municipality or charter county, hereinafter referred to in this section as “municipality,” may be removed from office by the electors of the municipality."

[John41]

Twisting the truth to fit an agenda is not "facts".
He has an apples to oranges comparison with Collier.
Read & Learn.

Where are your facts that Avogado is twisting the truth? You make statements without supporting facts. "Read and learn" is not a supporting fact so you get a F in freshman logic
1. What is your version of the truth?
2. How is it being twisted in your opinion?
3. Why is it an apples and oranges comparison?
4. Were the voters in the last election misinformed?

[dewilson58]

Where are your facts that Avogado is twisting the truth?
1. What is your version of the truth?
2. How is it being twisted in your opinion?
3. Why is it an apples and oranges comparison?
4. Were the voters in the last election misinformed?
If you read, you will learn.
Collier fee includes schools, parks, etc., which either does not apply to a +55 community or the developer pays for.
Check the facts, then you will know who states facts.
:ohdear:

[John41]

If you read, you will learn.
Collier fee includes schools, parks, etc., which either does not apply to a +55 community or the developer pays for.
Check the facts, then you will know who states facts.
:ohdear:

Obviously you have no supporting facts for your assertions and I am not going to do your research for you.

[dewilson58]

Obviously you have no supporting facts for your assertions and I am not going to do your research for you.
:1rotfl: All you have to do is look at Collier County Impact Fee.
Knowledge is priceless.

[dewilson58]

Obviously you have no supporting facts for your assertions and I am not going to do your research for you.
You must learn, just because it's posted on the internet does not mean it's true. :coolsmiley:

[dewilson58]

4. Were the voters in the last election misinformed?
I don't know what they were told.

Each voter must answer this question, I can not answer for each & every voter. :welcome:

[Altavia]

Yes.............he just realized the County can not reverse the 25% increase without a plan. The light bulb has not come on for the other two newbie commish's.

Exactly!

At the end of the day, there is no budget Santa Clause for the county.

[Bilyclub]

After that reply from Mr. Estep, check your shoes. Mr. Estep has had over a year to "gather as much information as possible".

They only took office in November. I'm sure he was not privy to a lot of information until he was sworn in.

[John41]

If funds accumulate, that means they're no longer in debt. That's a good thing. Right now Sumter County is in the red. They have spent, and spent, whether wisely or not, doesn't even matter anymore. What matters is that they have debts. A city with debts is a city that has to make up the loss, and has to get the money from somewhere. Part of the cost of being a municipality needs to include a buffer - call it a roof fund, or

According to Fitch municipal bond rating Sumter county is rated AA+ so I dont know why you think Sumter is in the red and needs a tax increase. Note "very low long term liability burden".
--------------------

The latest Fitch report attributes Sumter County’s strong rating to “the county’s superior gap-closing capacity, very low long-term liability burden, and solid expenditure flexibility.”

[John41]

After that reply from Mr. Estep, check your shoes. Mr. Estep has had over a year to "gather as much information as possible".

They only took office in November. I'm sure he was not privy to a lot of information until he was sworn in.

Thanks. Thats what I thought too but I've lost track of time since being shut in with covid social distancing

[Advogado]

Yes.............he just realized the County can not reverse the 25% increase without a plan. The light bulb has not come on for the other two newbie commish's.

The EMS team was crystal clear that the 25% tax increase would be rolled back by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee! The light bulb has been turned off by Commissioner Estep. What is going on here????

[Advogado]

If you read, you will learn.
Collier fee includes schools, parks, etc., which either does not apply to a +55 community or the developer pays for.
Check the facts, then you will know who states facts.
:ohdear:

Exactly the point. The Developer's puppets have offloaded those costs onto the residents, and now Mr. Estep, contrary to his campaign promise, is allowing it to continue. In any other county, not controlled by the Developer, those costs would be covered by impact fees. Here the costs are offloaded on to the residents.

[dewilson58]

The EMS team was crystal clear that the 25% tax increase would be rolled back by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee! The light bulb has been turned off by Commissioner Estep. What is going on here????
What's going on is simple math...........to reverse the 25% increase, the impact fee would have to be over $20k per house (just for roads, not schools, parks, etc....so don't talk Collier) and an increase from $1k to $20k ain't going to happen.

[dewilson58]

In any other county, not controlled by the Developer, those costs would be covered by impact fees.
Wrong.


Most all counties discount the fee.
Consultants determine the cost per and the consultants recommend discounting and most counties end up discounting.

[Advogado]

I understand all of that. My point is that the Commissioners need to watch how the money is spent. If too much money is continually spent and spent perhaps unwisely as you mentioned, they will continue to add debt to satisfy their appetite. The debt will not be reduced despite the high tax rate increase.
Another point is should we have confidence in County management that did not realize that they had a problem? All of a sudden a large tax increase is necessary. Where is the emergency you allude to? I would like to see where the extra $33.3 M per year is going. Don't you?
The large tax increase was necessary for one reason: To protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. For Pete's sake, he would pay twenty times more in Collier County. We need to ask ourselves, What is going on here? We need to insist that politicians keep their campaign promises.

[Advogado]

Wrong.


Most all counties discount the fee.
Consultants determine the cost per and the consultants recommend discounting and most counties end up discounting.

Of course studies by consultants are necessary. One was already done regarding the road-impact fee. Then the Developer's puppets imposed a road-impact fee of only 40% of the amount calculated by the study! Can you explain why the Developer would pay 20 times more in Sumter County?????

The Developer's puppets also imposed no impact fees for other county infrastructure. Honest question: Are you affiliated with the Developer or do you just enjoy writing him a check each time you pay your county tax bill????? I honestly don't know how anybody can rationally defend what has been going on in Sumter County.

But this whole issue should have been decided in the last election. The voters decided, by about a 2-to-1 margin, when they elected the EMS team: Roll back the tax increase and make up the lost revenue with reasonable impact fees to pay for the new infrastructure. Only because Mr. Estep has reneged on his campaign promise are we even debating this now! What is going on? is what we ought to be asking ourselves.

[Advogado]

After that reply from Mr. Estep, check your shoes. Mr. Estep has had over a year to "gather as much information as possible".

They only took office in November. I'm sure he was not privy to a lot of information until he was sworn in.

The information is public. Mr. Estep had plenty of time to review it before telling voters that he would roll back the 25% property tax increase.

It is clear that the Developer has a sweetheart deal on impact fees. Whether the 25% tax increase can be totally reversed with an end to that sweetheart deal is yet to be calculated and will require an impact fee study covering non-road infrastructure. Maybe it can be rolled back by more than 100%. What is clear is that the tax increase can be rolled back.

[golfing eagles]

The information is public. Mr. Estep had plenty of time to review it before telling voters that he would roll back the 25% property tax increase.

It is clear that the Developer has a sweetheart deal on impact fees. Whether the 25% tax increase can be totally reversed with an end to that sweetheart deal is yet to be calculated and will require an impact fee study covering non-road infrastructure. Maybe it can be rolled back by more than 100%. What is clear is that the tax increase can be rolled back.

One more time, for those of us that don't catch on quickly.

The "developer" is not getting "a sweetheart deal". New homeowners are getting it, if it is in fact a "sweetheart deal" (which I don't dispute). So the only question that remains is whether the cost should be shouldered, one time, by a new homeowner or shouldered by all taxpayers over time.

[Advogado]

You are more informed than I am so you are probably correct. What about a recall?
-----------------




In Sumter County, it is apparently is impossible to recall Mr. Estep or any other Commissioner. Laws governing recall in Florida - Ballotpedia (https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governing_recall_in_Florida)

However, I would hope that Mr. Estep will still rejoin the other two members of the EMS team to keep their campaign promise and roll back the 25% tax increase, making up the revenue shortfall by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

[Advogado]

One more time, for those of us that don't catch on quickly.

The "developer" is not getting "a sweetheart deal". New homeowners are getting it, if it is in fact a "sweetheart deal" (which I don't dispute). So the only question that remains is whether the cost should be shouldered, one time, by a new homeowner or shouldered by all taxpayers over time.

Undoubtedly, the Developer would pass as much as possible of the increased impact fee on to new home buyers. That is fine. It is the new home buyers who are necessitating the new county infrastructure.

But simple economics: Businesses cannot simply pass on all their costs; otherwise no business would ever go bankrupt. With reasonable impact fees, the Developer's profits would take a hit. We have been subsidizing his business. That is why he is going to such extraordinary lengths to protect his sweetheart deal and to continue offload what should be his costs on to the existing residents. Why do you think he has launched his massive propaganda campaign?

But this whole issue was, or would have been except for Mr. Estep's reneging, decided in the last election by about a 2-to-1 vote.

[John41]

If you read, you will learn.
Collier fee includes schools, parks, etc., which either does not apply to a +55 community or the developer pays for.
Check the facts, then you will know who states facts.
:ohdear:

Here is the impact fee for a RETIREMENT (as is The Villages) community in Collier county and it includes schools even though it is a retirement community. So it is not apples and oranges
-----------------------------
Collier County Impact Fee Calculator
Building Use:Retirement Community (Detached)
Location:Collier County
Fire District:North Collier BC Fire
Living Area:1500
# of Units:100
Total Area per Unit:1700
Water and sewer impact fees are NOT INCLUDED. Please see fee schedule or call 239-252-6237.

Emergency Medical Services $6,201.00
Fire Please click here for North Collier Fire rates
Government Buildings $40,781.00
Jails $21,512.00
Law Enforcement $26,567.00
Library $14,583.00
Parks Regional $269,432.00
Parks Community $93,383.00
Roads $303,710.00
Schools $878,954.00
Total Fee $1,655,123.0 for 100 detached units

[John41]

In Sumter County, it is apparently is impossible to recall Mr. Estep or any other Commissioner. Laws governing recall in Florida - Ballotpedia (https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governing_recall_in_Florida)

However, I would hope that Mr. Estep will still rejoin the other two members of the EMS team to keep their campaign promise and roll back the 25% tax increase, making up the revenue shortfall by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

Here is a quote (below) from your link that states any elected Florida municipal official can be recalled for any of 7 reasons. As someone in this thread pointed out the new commissioners have only been in office since November (I didn't very that) so they have to have an audit or completely new cost analysis to set an impact fee. I would give them until Summer.
-----------------------

See also: Requirements for recall
Grounds for the recall must be provided. There are 7 allowable grounds. They are "malfeasance, misfeasance, neglect of duty, drunkenness, incompetence, permanent inability to perform official duties, and conviction of a felony involving moral turpitude."[1]

[kappy]

Mr. Estep, during his campaign for office, stated that he, “Strongly Disagreed” with the 25% tax increase in 2019. The increase was due to all the new infrastructure, along with new schools, libraries, etc. which are not even included in the calculation of the Sumter County impact fees. He and the other two new commissioners pledged to roll back that tax increase. Raising the impact fees is one of the fair ways to correct the wrong done in 2019. Let’s face facts, the cost of new development should be paid for by the people who benefit from that development. The additional $1,458 impact fee for each new home in The Villages will surely be passed on to each new homebuyer. I seriously doubt if that amount will be detrimental to the growth of TV. And, with all the new homes sold every year, the businesses will follow. Actually, it has been shown that higher impact fees actually help increase the value of all homes in the area. Impact fees are one time charges. Tax increases, unless rolled back, are every year expenditures when we all pay our taxes. It’s time that Mr. Estep honor his word and his campaign promise. A man or woman is only as good as their word.

[Advogado]

Here is a quote (below) from your link that states any elected Florida municipal official can be recalled for any of 7 reasons. As someone in this thread pointed out the new commissioners have only been in office since November (I didn't very that) so they have to have an audit or completely new cost analysis to set an impact fee. I would give them until Summer.
-----------------------

See also: Requirements for recall
Grounds for the recall must be provided. There are 7 allowable grounds. They are "malfeasance, misfeasance, neglect of duty, drunkenness, incompetence, permanent inability to perform official duties, and conviction of a felony involving moral turpitude."[1]
John, as to recall of the County Commissioners, read the portion of the link about counties. I wish that all 5 of the Developer's puppets could have been recalled prior to last November's election and that the remaining two (Gilpin and Breeden) could be recalled now instead of voted out in 2022, but I don't think it can be done in Sumter County, unlike some other counties.

An impact study is necessary regarding non-road impact fees and would be part of the analysis that you describe. The Commissioners need to immediately contract to have the study done with respect to non-road infrastructure. The road-impact-fee study was done in 2019. There is no reason why the road-impact fee cannot immediately be increased from 40% to 100% of the amount calculated in that study. The delay, thanks to Mr. Estep's breaking with Mr. Miller and Search, is putting millions into the Developer's pocket at our expense.

[Northwoods]

Yes.............he just realized the County can not reverse the 25% increase without a plan. The light bulb has not come on for the other two newbie commish's.

I think a lot of voters in South Sumter feel they helped elect the EMS team, so they are waiting for their "Charter" schools, town square, better roads and family pool. Also, didn't the "old" commissioners just end the hotel tax that paid for square entertainment?
It will be interesting to see how the new commissioners roll back the 25% tax increase. After all, that is why they were elected...

[Advogado]

I think a lot of voters in South Sumter feel they helped elect the EMS team, so they are waiting for their "Charter" schools, town square, better roads and family pool. Also, didn't the "old" commissioners just end the hotel tax that paid for square entertainment?
It will be interesting to see how the new commissioners roll back the 25% tax increase. After all, that is why they were elected...

The EMS team clearly stated that they would roll back the 25% property tax increase by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

[golfing eagles]

Undoubtedly, the Developer would pass as much as possible of the increased impact fee on to new home buyers. That is fine. It is the new home buyers who are necessitating the new county infrastructure.

But simple economics: Businesses cannot simply pass on all their costs; otherwise no business would ever go bankrupt. With reasonable impact fees, the Developer's profits would take a hit. We have been subsidizing his business. That is why he is going to such extraordinary lengths to protect his sweetheart deal and to continue offload what should be his costs on to the existing residents. Why do you think he has launched his massive propaganda campaign?

But this whole issue was, or would have been except for Mr. Estep's reneging, decided in the last election by about a 2-to-1 vote.

Since TV is the fastest growing development in the country, and since home prices are already quite a bit higher than similar properties outside TV, I think "the developer" COULD pass 100% of a higher impact fee on to the consumer without his profits "taking a hit". Not all businesses could do this, but I think this one could.

[Advogado]

Since TV is the fastest growing development in the country, and since home prices are already quite a bit higher than similar properties outside TV, I think "the developer" COULD pass 100% of a higher impact fee on to the consumer without his profits "taking a hit". Not all businesses could do this, but I think this one could.


If so, fine. But the Developer apparently doesn't think so or he would not have launched his massive propaganda campaign in the Daily Sun and had his suppliers turn out in mass at the last Commission meeting and block the parking lot with their heavy equipment. The point is that the existing residents should not be paying for the infrastructure necessitated by The Villages expansion.

In any event, the issue of replacing the 25% tax hike with reasonable impact fees was decided in the last election by a 2-to-1 margin. We wouldn't be reexamining the issue now if Mr. Estep had not reneged on his campaign pledge.

[Goldwingnut]

The EMS team clearly stated that they would roll back the 25% property tax increase by increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

I think a lot of voters in South Sumter feel they helped elect the EMS team, so they are waiting for their "Charter" schools, town square, better roads and family pool. Also, didn't the "old" commissioners just end the hotel tax that paid for square entertainment?
It will be interesting to see how the new commissioners roll back the 25% tax increase. After all, that is why they were elected...

These new county commissioners have promised something that they can't keep. The county is growing and there are services that are expected and go along with the increased population, which are they going to cut? Library hours? Police and fire service? the county services offices hours? wages? do any one of them have the backbone to make the hard and unpopular decisions? doubtful.

What exactly have they found now that they are in office that they can cut to recover the 25% increase? My guess is NOTHING! They are getting ready to go into the most shocking part of their new positions, the budget season, and the realities of operating a county of this size.

The budget process started tonight at their workshop. They were presented with information about county salaries for the workers. About a 4% increase across the board is proposed. All in about $2,200,000 increase in wages. This doesn't include any new hires, just increases for the current workers. Do they have the backbone to say no pay raises this year to the county workers? once again, doubtful. They can save 15% of the proposed increase in one quick and easy step, all they need do is forego their salaries and benefits, that'll save over $300K per year. Will they do that? keep dreaming!

The real test of their integrity will be in September when the final budget is decided, and the residents of Sumter County find out that they can't deliver on their rhetoric of the last two years; will they fortitude and the integrity to stand up at the board meeting and say to the public:
"We were wrong, we didn't know what we were talking about, we can't cut the budget."
Dream on!

Half of the 25% increase could have been given back in the most recent budget, but it wasn't, it was squandered by every department in the county with 10-20% budget increases that didn't exist in the previous year's 5-year proforma budget projections. They could have started setting money aside for upcoming maintenance and been prepared, instead of ignoring it like they did the previous 14 years. But nope, every department all of a sudden needed new computers, and tools, and other "stuff" since the money was there. The first rule of government budgeting is "if you have the money, spend it, don't give it back to the taxpayers".

As far as the South Sumter county resident expecting pools, town squares, and many of the other niceties that exist in The Villages, they are in for a shock, it's not going to happen, the county doesn't have the money for it. The county didn't build and provide all these nice things in The Villages, the residents did, by buying homes from the developer who invested of that money back into their development to make it what it is; the residents did when they paid their infrastructure bonds on every new home. The Villages isn't what it is because the county spent taxpayer money on these things, it is what it is because we, you, I and every other resident in The Villages invested our hard-earned money into it when we bought our homes. There're no free rides happening here. Each community must invest in itself if they want something better.

[tophcfa]

Since TV is the fastest growing development in the country, and since home prices are already quite a bit higher than similar properties outside TV, I think "the developer" COULD pass 100% of a higher impact fee on to the consumer without his profits "taking a hit". Not all businesses could do this, but I think this one could.

Well than, that begs the obvious question. Why do they go to such painstaking measures to control the governing bodies to insure that passing on impact fees will not be an issue, among other things?

[dewilson58]

Why do they go to such painstaking measures to control the governing bodies to insure that passing on impact fees will not be an issue, among other things?
If the assumption of control is true, the answer is the same as to why there is big money at all levels of politics, all the way to the White House. :icon_wink:

[dewilson58]

I think a lot of voters in South Sumter feel they helped elect the EMS team, so they are waiting for their "Charter" schools, town square, better roads and family pool. .
South Sumter is a wildlife preserve.
I don't think the animals need charter schools or town squares.
:ohdear:

[dewilson58]

These new county commissioners have promised something that they can't keep. The county is growing and there are services that are expected and go along with the increased population, which are they going to cut? Library hours? Police and fire service? the county services offices hours? wages? do any one of them have the backbone to make the hard and unpopular decisions? doubtful.

What exactly have they found now that they are in office that they can cut to recover the 25% increase? My guess is NOTHING! They are getting ready to go into the most shocking part of their new positions, the budget season, and the realities of operating a county of this size.

The budget process started tonight at their workshop. They were presented with information about county salaries for the workers. About a 4% increase across the board is proposed. All in about $2,200,000 increase in wages. This doesn't include any new hires, just increases for the current workers. Do they have the backbone to say no pay raises this year to the county workers? once again, doubtful. They can save 15% of the proposed increase in one quick and easy step, all they need do is forego their salaries and benefits, that'll save over $300K per year. Will they do that? keep dreaming!

The real test of their integrity will be in September when the final budget is decided, and the residents of Sumter County find out that they can't deliver on their rhetoric of the last two years; will they fortitude and the integrity to stand up at the board meeting and say to the public:
"We were wrong, we didn't know what we were talking about, we can't cut the budget."
Dream on!

Half of the 25% increase could have been given back in the most recent budget, but it wasn't, it was squandered by every department in the county with 10-20% budget increases that didn't exist in the previous year's 5-year proforma budget projections. They could have started setting money aside for upcoming maintenance and been prepared, instead of ignoring it like they did the previous 14 years. But nope, every department all of a sudden needed new computers, and tools, and other "stuff" since the money was there. The first rule of government budgeting is "if you have the money, spend it, don't give it back to the taxpayers".

As far as the South Sumter county resident expecting pools, town squares, and many of the other niceties that exist in The Villages, they are in for a shock, it's not going to happen, the county doesn't have the money for it. The county didn't build and provide all these nice things in The Villages, the residents did, by buying homes from the developer who invested of that money back into their development to make it what it is; the residents did when they paid their infrastructure bonds on every new home. The Villages isn't what it is because the county spent taxpayer money on these things, it is what it is because we, you, I and every other resident in The Villages invested our hard-earned money into it when we bought our homes. There're no free rides happening here. Each community must invest in itself if they want something better.
:bigbow:

[biker1]

You can choose to believe that voting for those specific candidates was a guarantee that the 25% increase in the County Tax millage rate would be rolled back in favor of the equivalent impact fee but it is not reasonable to do so. It was a campaign promise that they may or may not be able to keep.



In any event, the issue of replacing the 25% tax hike with reasonable impact fees was decided in the last election by a 2-to-1 margin. We wouldn't be reexamining the issue now if Mr. Estep had not reneged on his campaign pledge.

[golfing eagles]

Well than, that begs the obvious question. Why do they go to such painstaking measures to control the governing bodies to insure that passing on impact fees will not be an issue, among other things?

I don't know, but that's probably because I don't have the ability to read minds or jump to conclusions, unlike some posters on this thread

[Advogado]

You can choose to believe that voting for those specific candidates was a guarantee that the 25% increase in the County Tax millage rate would be rolled back in favor of the equivalent impact fee but it is not reasonable to do so. It was a campaign promise that they may or may not be able to keep.

No, it was a campaign promise that can easily be kept. How can you seriously argue to the contrary?

True, whether 100% REPEAL of the property tax hike is possible (maybe even more) can only be calculated once an impact study on infrastructure besides roads is completed. But there is absolutely no doubt that a ROLLBACK is possible simply by ending the sweetheart road impact fee-- raising it from 40% to 100% of the amount calculated by the 2019 road-impact-fee study. Only Mr. Estep's joining with the Developer's puppets, Gilpin and Breeden, has prevented that from happening.

Again, this whole issue was already determined by a huge majority of the voters last year. Only Mr. Estep's succumbing to the Developer's effort to subvert the voters' will is causing it to be argued now.

[biker1]

No, it was a campaign promise that they might be able to keep. No guarantees, not all promises are kept by politicians. As I have asked you before, provide the numbers to prove that this promise (a complete rollback of the 25% increase in the County Tax millage rate) can be kept. Also, no issue was determined by the election, with the possible exception of the fact that the voters appeared to be fed up with perceived arrogance of the incumbents. So, what is your exact point? That some rollback is possible or a complete rollback is possible? By your own admission, a study needs to be done. If this is true, how can the newly elected challengers have made a promise without that study? If the impact fees are not increased to allow for some minor rollback then I think you have a point and the newly elected challengers may not be reelected. I think we are in agreement with the exception of the fact that I allow for the possibility that what they promised they cannot deliver.

No, it was a campaign promise that can easily be kept. How can you seriously argue to the contrary?

True, whether 100% REPEAL of the property tax hike is possible (maybe even more) can only be calculated once an impact study on infrastructure besides roads is completed. But there is absolutely no doubt that a ROLLBACK is possible simply by ending the sweetheart road impact fee-- raising it from 40% to 100% of the amount calculated by the 2019 road-impact-fee study. Only Mr. Estep's joining with the Developer's puppets, Gilpin and Breeden, has prevented that from happening.

Again, this whole issue was already determined by a huge majority of the voters last year. Only Mr. Estep's succumbing to the Developer's effort to subvert the voters' will is causing it to be argued now.

[kappy]

Even if raising the impact fees now will not generate enough new revenue to allow a full 25% roll back this tax year, it is still the right thing to do. The increased costs associated with any new development should be borne by the people who are getting the benefits of that new development. That is, the new homeowners, not homeowners who have already paid for the roads that they are using. Notice I didn’t say for all the costs of the new development such as; libraries, schools, fire stations, additional police, etc. Those costs are not even used in calculating the impact fees in Sumter County. The current impact fees were established from a 2019 study which only took into account the additional road costs due to the new development. And then the County Commissioners gave the developer a 60% discount. Why? Because they can. If the impact fee calculation does not even utilize all the costs generated by the new development, it should at least help pay for some of the costs at the 100% impact fee rate.

[kkingston57]

This is the best reasonable explanation that I have read, regarding this issue.

[Aloha1]

Goldwingnut; Thank you for a cogent and concise post. You speak fact and truth as opposed to hyperbola.

[Aloha1]

One item left out of this discussion is that of the fiduciary responsibility of the Sumter Commissioners. They have a LEGAL obligation to not make financial decisions that would damage the County. Failure to do so is a chargeable crime punishable by imprisonment.
I suggest they tread carefully, LEARN all the facets of the budget, current and planned fiscal needs, and not listen the mob. Act appropriately after you learn your preconceived ideas may not have been right.

[Bilyclub]

I think some people forgot that the old board lowered the millage rate in 2020 by what they claimed to be 4%. They were hoping that would appease the voters, it didn't work.
Sumter County's proposal would lower the millage rate from 6.7000 to 6.4309.

[dewilson58]

I think some people forgot that the old board lowered the millage rate in 2020 by what they claimed to be 4%.


And the three newbies promised reversing the 25%, so we are all are going to get almost a 30% reduction. :a040: Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Goldwingnut]

I think some people forgot that the old board lowered the millage rate in 2020 by what they claimed to be 4%. They were hoping that would appease the voters, it didn't work.
Sumter County's proposal would lower the millage rate from 6.7000 to 6.4309.

This was the “roll back rate”. Per the Sumter county commissioners this is neither a rate increase or a rate decrease. Every if it is a decrease the 3 stooges promised to roll back the rate 25%. Let’s see them deliver! My money is on them being clueless about what they promised and they’ll be eating crow come September.

[Advogado]

As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

A simple question to jrandall and to the other posters who argue that the Developer's sweetheart road-impact fee should not be increased and property taxes rolled back correspondingly:
Do you believe that the Developer OR the current residents should pay for the roads and other county infrastructure (like police stations, fire stations, jails, equipment, etc.) necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages?

Right now, thanks to the Developer's sweetheart impact fee set by his puppet County Commissioners, the current residents are paying for the great majority of it.

[kappy]

The 2020 rate reduction was due to the increase in revenue because of all the new homes that were built. That reduction is what we had been seeing for all the years prior to the 2019 increase. It happened automatically when each year saw more and more homes built in the County; mostly by the developer. Those new homes did not cause road infrastructure costs since the roads were still the responsibility of the developer and had not been turned over to the County. You cannot give the former County Commissioners credit for the rate reductions in all those years. More tax revenue from more new homes without incurring new costs equals the ability to lower the tax rate each year.

[Northwoods]

These new county commissioners have promised something that they can't keep. The county is growing and there are services that are expected and go along with the increased population, which are they going to cut? Library hours? Police and fire service? the county services offices hours? wages? do any one of them have the backbone to make the hard and unpopular decisions? doubtful.

What exactly have they found now that they are in office that they can cut to recover the 25% increase? My guess is NOTHING! They are getting ready to go into the most shocking part of their new positions, the budget season, and the realities of operating a county of this size.

The budget process started tonight at their workshop. They were presented with information about county salaries for the workers. About a 4% increase across the board is proposed. All in about $2,200,000 increase in wages. This doesn't include any new hires, just increases for the current workers. Do they have the backbone to say no pay raises this year to the county workers? once again, doubtful. They can save 15% of the proposed increase in one quick and easy step, all they need do is forego their salaries and benefits, that'll save over $300K per year. Will they do that? keep dreaming!

The real test of their integrity will be in September when the final budget is decided, and the residents of Sumter County find out that they can't deliver on their rhetoric of the last two years; will they fortitude and the integrity to stand up at the board meeting and say to the public:
"We were wrong, we didn't know what we were talking about, we can't cut the budget."
Dream on!

Half of the 25% increase could have been given back in the most recent budget, but it wasn't, it was squandered by every department in the county with 10-20% budget increases that didn't exist in the previous year's 5-year proforma budget projections. They could have started setting money aside for upcoming maintenance and been prepared, instead of ignoring it like they did the previous 14 years. But nope, every department all of a sudden needed new computers, and tools, and other "stuff" since the money was there. The first rule of government budgeting is "if you have the money, spend it, don't give it back to the taxpayers".

As far as the South Sumter county resident expecting pools, town squares, and many of the other niceties that exist in The Villages, they are in for a shock, it's not going to happen, the county doesn't have the money for it. The county didn't build and provide all these nice things in The Villages, the residents did, by buying homes from the developer who invested of that money back into their development to make it what it is; the residents did when they paid their infrastructure bonds on every new home. The Villages isn't what it is because the county spent taxpayer money on these things, it is what it is because we, you, I and every other resident in The Villages invested our hard-earned money into it when we bought our homes. There're no free rides happening here. Each community must invest in itself if they want something better.

What a refreshing, honest assessment of the current situation.
Hope the current commissioners read this.....

[Northwoods]

No, it was a campaign promise that they might be able to keep. No guarantees, not all promises are kept by politicians. As I have asked you before, provide the numbers to prove that this promise (a complete rollback of the 25% increase in the County Tax millage rate) can be kept. Also, no issue was determined by the election, with the possible exception of the fact that the voters appeared to be fed up with perceived arrogance of the incumbents. So, what is your exact point? That some rollback is possible or a complete rollback is possible? By your own admission, a study needs to be done. If this is true, how can the newly elected challengers have made a promise without that study? If the impact fees are not increased to allow for some minor rollback then I think you have a point and the newly elected challengers may not be reelected. I think we are in agreement with the exception of the fact that I allow for the possibility that what they promised they cannot deliver.

Their whole campaign was "roll back the 25% tax increase." And you're saying "No guarantees"? Seriously?

[biker1]

Let me get this straight, you believe all campaign promises from politicians? Seriously? We will probably get some rollback, I doubt it will all be rolled back.

Their whole campaign was "roll back the 25% tax increase." And you're saying "No guarantees"? Seriously?

[Bill14564]

I can't decide which is worse:

- Politicians who make campaign promises they should know they cannot keep

- Voters who believe them

- Apologists that brush aside the broken promises as "just politics"

If a candidate's words and promises mean nothing then what are we electing them on, their good looks?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I can't decide which is worse:

- Politicians who make campaign promises they should know they cannot keep

- Voters who believe them

- Apologists that brush aside the broken promises as "just politics"

If a candidate's words and promises mean nothing then what are we electing them on, their good looks?

You have to vote for someone. So you come up with your own personal chart, on paper or in your head.

Mine:

What is the current situation?

What will happen if we do NOT elect someone new, based on what we already know about what the current batch has already done/not done?

Am I okay with the status quo? Yes? Then vote the incumbents back in.
No? Then vote for the other guy.


Pretty simple. The worst that can happen, is no change. The best that can happen is they keep all their promises. What will -probably- happen is at least one promise will be kept, which is an improvement over the status quo.

Never vote for a single issue. You are likely to be disappointed. Vote for the overall effect. If you feel the overall effect of the new regime will be superior to the current regime, then vote for it. If not, then vote for the current regime.

[Stu from NYC]

I can't decide which is worse:

- Politicians who make campaign promises they should know they cannot keep

- Voters who believe them

- Apologists that brush aside the broken promises as "just politics"

If a candidate's words and promises mean nothing then what are we electing them on, their good looks?

The sad part is we keep voting in the same people who caused the mess we are in, in the first place.

[Notsocrates]

Counties usually issue bonds for such purposes amortizing the cost among present and future taxpayers who benefit. With interest rates close to zero now a 30-year bond for a little north of 1% would be attractive to investors and cheap for homeowners

[Stu from NYC]

The developer must be worried, todays article in their paper is about as one sided a piece as we have ever seen.

[Bilyclub]

The developer must be worried, todays article in their paper is about as one sided a piece as we have ever seen.

Yes, they were inferring that Sumter County has a chance of landing big corporate headquarters like Miami has. The best was the quote from one of the county guys saying TV will never get a Costco, Trader Joes, or Whole Foods with the impact fee increase.

[Bill14564]

Yes, they were inferring that Sumter County has a chance of landing big corporate headquarters like Miami has. The best was the quote from one of the county guys saying TV will never get a Costco, Trader Joes, or Whole Foods with the impact fee increase.

I was impressed at how many different topics they could cram into a single article. Enough to confuse the reader about the subject and to blame all the ills of the world on the proposed "tax" increase.

[Stu from NYC]

Journalists these days have no shame.

Guess the people that run the paper think we are a collective bunch of morons. Would have thought after the primary they would have given up that thought but guess not.

[blshep1224]

The Daily Sun is at it again trying to convince the unwary that an increase in impact fees is a tax increase (see pg. 1 of today's Sun owned by the developer). I think what the developer has done south of rt.44 is great, very attractive etc. I just don't want to pay for it. Any of it. I believed the developers when they said they were done, nothing further south of 44 etc. I didn't ask for any of the development going on now. I think the real tax increasers were the previous commissioners who were advocating close to a 25% Sumter county tax increase before they got bounced out of office by outraged voters. This tax would have applied to all Sumter county residents, not just to Villages residents. I don't see why a single Mom trying to keep her family together should pay for our roads , golf courses etc. The impact fee increase proposed by Search and Miller will keep the costs where they belong, with the actual beneficiaries, new homeowners in the southern sections and the developer. The Sun is virtually a bulletin board for the Associated Press and hatchet job character assassinations like in today's edition. If you want to hear the true history of this issue and not just the one-sided BS from the Sun I urge you to call Gary Search or Oren Miller. Gary Search is in the phone book.

[eyc234]

These new county commissioners have promised something that they can't keep. The county is growing and there are services that are expected and go along with the increased population, which are they going to cut? Library hours? Police and fire service? the county services offices hours? wages? do any one of them have the backbone to make the hard and unpopular decisions? doubtful.

What exactly have they found now that they are in office that they can cut to recover the 25% increase? My guess is NOTHING! They are getting ready to go into the most shocking part of their new positions, the budget season, and the realities of operating a county of this size.

The budget process started tonight at their workshop. They were presented with information about county salaries for the workers. About a 4% increase across the board is proposed. All in about $2,200,000 increase in wages. This doesn't include any new hires, just increases for the current workers. Do they have the backbone to say no pay raises this year to the county workers? once again, doubtful. They can save 15% of the proposed increase in one quick and easy step, all they need do is forego their salaries and benefits, that'll save over $300K per year. Will they do that? keep dreaming!

The real test of their integrity will be in September when the final budget is decided, and the residents of Sumter County find out that they can't deliver on their rhetoric of the last two years; will they fortitude and the integrity to stand up at the board meeting and say to the public:
"We were wrong, we didn't know what we were talking about, we can't cut the budget."
Dream on!

Half of the 25% increase could have been given back in the most recent budget, but it wasn't, it was squandered by every department in the county with 10-20% budget increases that didn't exist in the previous year's 5-year proforma budget projections. They could have started setting money aside for upcoming maintenance and been prepared, instead of ignoring it like they did the previous 14 years. But nope, every department all of a sudden needed new computers, and tools, and other "stuff" since the money was there. The first rule of government budgeting is "if you have the money, spend it, don't give it back to the taxpayers".

As far as the South Sumter county resident expecting pools, town squares, and many of the other niceties that exist in The Villages, they are in for a shock, it's not going to happen, the county doesn't have the money for it. The county didn't build and provide all these nice things in The Villages, the residents did, by buying homes from the developer who invested of that money back into their development to make it what it is; the residents did when they paid their infrastructure bonds on every new home. The Villages isn't what it is because the county spent taxpayer money on these things, it is what it is because we, you, I and every other resident in The Villages invested our hard-earned money into it when we bought our homes. There're no free rides happening here. Each community must invest in itself if they want something better.

:bigbow: :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

[eyc234]

One item left out of this discussion is that of the fiduciary responsibility of the Sumter Commissioners. They have a LEGAL obligation to not make financial decisions that would damage the County. Failure to do so is a chargeable crime punishable by imprisonment.
I suggest they tread carefully, LEARN all the facets of the budget, current and planned fiscal needs, and not listen the mob. Act appropriately after you learn your preconceived ideas may not have been right.

Uh ooooh, watch out another logical thought, it could be getting contaigous.:MOJE_whot:

[JoMar]

I guess I'm missing something....the elections are over, those that ran to increase impact fees won so they should increase the fees and roll back the tax increase right? It doesn't matter what the Daily Sun prints or how many contractors show up at a meeting....the three won't change their position or their minds right? The good news for the residents is that Lake and Marion Counties are close enough to us that if all those businesses that we want can build there and avoid paying the fees here and we still get to go shop them right? Granted the tax revenues will also go to Marion and Lake and not Sumter but is that important to us? The majority voted for Commissioners that will increase impact fees and not increase our individual taxes so they should vote for what the majority told them to do right? What am I missing?