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Topspinmo
01-20-2021, 06:57 AM
Anybody willing to guess how high gas prices will be in year and 4 years. IMO $3.50 and above $5.00. So will say that good thing, and some will say its economy killer. It will affect everything, most all food prices. There will Alway be demand for crude oil and coal.

stanley
01-20-2021, 07:47 AM
It will definitely go up, but don't worry......the national minimum wage that's going to go up will offset the cost.....:ohdear:

PugMom
01-20-2021, 07:48 AM
the worst it ever got for us was in Ct., with prices of 4.85. it's anybody's guess what it will be now, got to wait & see what the new climate director, of whatever, does. (if we stick to point, we should be able to discuss the thread further-am keeping names out.) it would be nice if we could keep current prices stable.:popcorn:

billethkid
01-20-2021, 08:33 AM
Ya can't keep spending billions and trillions without some source of revenue!!!!

Moderator
01-20-2021, 08:36 AM
Please try to stay on the topic and avoid turning this into a partisan or political discussion...or the thread will be closed.

It's worth a try to see if focus can be maintained....

Moderator

Stu from NYC
01-20-2021, 08:36 AM
At least $ 4. They will put a large tax on gas so we can help people here illegally get free stuff.

Viperguy
01-20-2021, 08:42 AM
Ever been to Hawaii?

sail33or
01-20-2021, 08:46 AM
Buy Oil and Refinery Dividend Paying Stocks. Your profits will far exceed your cost of gasoline.

The more you "clamp down" on something the more it rises in value. (Supply and Demand).

Windmills, Batteries and Solar Panels (are made of Oil)(Require Oil to be delivered and require Oil to be installed and maintained." The irony of "Clamping down on Oil".

gatorbill1
01-20-2021, 10:38 AM
No individual or even country controls gas prices. Oil is sold on the commodity market based on supply and demand. A lot of supply is controlled by Middle East countries including Saudi Arabi. Russia seems to have a hand in pricing also. We are a small player.

biker1
01-20-2021, 10:49 AM
Yes, oil is a global commodity but the US is far from a small player. In fact, the US is the largest producer of oil in the world.

No individual or even country controls gas prices. Oil is sold on the commodity market based on supply and demand. A lot of supply is controlled by Middle East countries including Saudi Arabi. Russia seems to have a hand in pricing also. We are a small player.

charlieo1126@gmail.com
01-20-2021, 10:52 AM
No individual or even country controls gas prices. Oil is sold on the commodity market based on supply and demand. A lot of supply is controlled by Middle East countries including Saudi Arabi. Russia seems to have a hand in pricing also. We are a small player. let’s not a sensible answer get in the way of another conspiracy thread

Kenswing
01-20-2021, 10:57 AM
No individual or even country controls gas prices. Oil is sold on the commodity market based on supply and demand. A lot of supply is controlled by Middle East countries including Saudi Arabi. Russia seems to have a hand in pricing also. We are a small player.
Quite the opposite. We are the LARGEST player.

Top ten largest oil-producing countries in the world (https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/top-oil-producing-countries/)

DeanFL
01-20-2021, 11:05 AM
Quite the opposite. We are the LARGEST player.

Top ten largest oil-producing countries in the world (https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/top-oil-producing-countries/)
.
.
for now
.
.

kkingston57
01-20-2021, 11:25 AM
Matter of supply and DEMAND. People now more likely to work from home, travel is down, fuel efficient cars getting more prevalent etc. We in TV should have the least worries about gas prices. Since moving here I buy less than 10 gallons of gas a month for the cart and car gets filled(20 gallons)up once a month. Even if gas goes to $4 a gallon, this additional cost will be negligible.

Topspinmo
01-20-2021, 11:30 AM
No individual or even country controls gas prices. Oil is sold on the commodity market based on supply and demand. A lot of supply is controlled by Middle East countries including Saudi Arabi. Russia seems to have a hand in pricing also. We are a small player.

Yep, when fracking no longer allowed, natural gas cheap right now, won’t be where fracking stops. Next step back to coal.

Topspinmo
01-20-2021, 11:31 AM
Matter of supply and DEMAND. People now more likely to work from home, travel is down, fuel efficient cars getting more prevalent etc. We in TV should have the least worries about gas prices. Since moving here I buy less than 10 gallons of gas a month for the cart and car gets filled(20 gallons)up once a month. Even if gas goes to $4 a gallon, this additional cost will be negligible.

Not thinking about use. We no longer have to work for living.

Topspinmo
01-20-2021, 11:33 AM
Ever been to Hawaii?

Flew over it, but, no and don’t intend to.

gatorbill1
01-20-2021, 11:50 AM
Yes, oil is a global commodity but the US is far from a small player. In fact, the US is the largest producer of oil in the world.

We may be largest producer, but we keep pumping, others stop to get price up.

Debfrommaine
01-20-2021, 11:50 AM
Not thinking about use. We no longer have to work for living.

Yes, some of us do.

biker1
01-20-2021, 11:56 AM
Since oil is a global commodity, if other nations cut production then the price for all goes up. However, supply and demand are pretty much in synch as storage is limited. Once you fill up all land based storage and tankers there is no place left to store excess production.

We may be largest producer, but we keep pumping, others stop to get price up.

jimjamuser
01-20-2021, 07:02 PM
Anybody willing to guess how high gas prices will be in year and 4 years. IMO $3.50 and above $5.00. So will say that good thing, and some will say its economy killer. It will affect everything, most all food prices. There will Alway be demand for crude oil and coal.
Always is an infinite time period and coal and crude oil are finite resources.

jimjamuser
01-20-2021, 07:09 PM
Buy Oil and Refinery Dividend Paying Stocks. Your profits will far exceed your cost of gasoline.

The more you "clamp down" on something the more it rises in value. (Supply and Demand).

Windmills, Batteries and Solar Panels (are made of Oil)(Require Oil to be delivered and require Oil to be installed and maintained." The irony of "Clamping down on Oil".
That is a partial truth that invalidates the conclusion.

John41
01-20-2021, 07:55 PM
Anybody willing to guess how high gas prices will be in year and 4 years. IMO $3.50 and above $5.00. So will say that good thing, and some will say its economy killer. It will affect everything, most all food prices. There will Alway be demand for crude oil and coal.

I will also say $3.50 and $5.00 but worse there might be shortages as we lose energy independence in which case price could escalate to $8 per gallon. And it will be an economy killer as oil workers are laid off and the CPI prices see substantial inflation. Stagflation again.

RaunchyRich
01-20-2021, 08:02 PM
Anybody willing to guess how high gas prices will be in year and 4 years. IMO $3.50 and above $5.00. So will say that good thing, and some will say its economy killer. It will affect everything, most all food prices. There will Alway be demand for crude oil and coal.
Will any of you guys be around to complain about it! The Electric car is the future, get onboard ! Spend some of that Communion money....,

tophcfa
01-20-2021, 08:05 PM
No individual or even country controls gas prices. Oil is sold on the commodity market based on supply and demand. A lot of supply is controlled by Middle East countries including Saudi Arabi. Russia seems to have a hand in pricing also. We are a small player.

You are absolutely correct as it pertains to the pure commodity price of a barrel or unrefined crude oil. However, a country can greatly influence the price it’s citizens pay at the pump. Restrictions on refinement, mandating ethanol additives, traditional taxes per gallon, and the threat of green new deal carbon taxes are all examples of why prices at the pump could, and probably will, skyrocket.

pacjag
01-20-2021, 08:26 PM
You are all ignoring the taxation aspect of the equation. The government does not control the price of oil or gasoline but they can sure as hell raise taxes on both to pay for entitlements.

Topspinmo
01-20-2021, 08:27 PM
Will any of you guys be around to complain about it! The Electric car is the future, get onboard ! Spend some of that Communion money....,

No, I don’t plan on living for ever. Where do you think electric going to come from?

RaunchyRich
01-20-2021, 08:32 PM
Nuclear , Solar , Hydroelectric

JimJohnson
01-21-2021, 03:12 AM
Ride a bicycle.

mike1946
01-21-2021, 05:57 AM
Y'all just be glad you don't live in the UK - Gas (Petrol) has been over $9 a gallon for years and diesel even more.

Just stop whining.

ithos
01-21-2021, 06:10 AM
In the last few years not only did the US become energy independent on oil but also was the marginal producer in the world. Based on the proclamations of the incoming administration, existing fracking operations and drilling permits will come under increased regulatory pressure to be downscaled or eliminated. The purpose is to reduce the carbon emissions.

The impact on the economy will be two fold. First the prices of all energy sources will go up which will restrain the growth of the economy and put a disproportionate burden on the poor and lower middle class.

The second and possibly the biggest hurdle to returning to the pre pandemic record low unemployment levels is that the US will lose its primary competitive advantage for manufacturing. This will be a major drag for jobs particularly in the Midwest which had seen a revival of sorts due to not only cheaper energy costs but the USMCA agreement, deregulations and protective tariffs.

Langwelld
01-21-2021, 07:02 AM
While we lower our living standards to lower emissions the rest of the developing world including China will be burning coal and gas like crazy accelerating their growth past the USA. UGH!

Rjstmc
01-21-2021, 07:03 AM
Everything we buy will increase in price with the increase in fuel prices. Trucks deliver most of our needs.

Fairway Cruises
01-21-2021, 07:08 AM
No individual or even country controls gas prices. Oil is sold on the commodity market based on supply and demand. A lot of supply is controlled by Middle East countries including Saudi Arabi. Russia seems to have a hand in pricing also. We are a small player.

Not true. USA is one of the worlds biggest producers and self sufficient.

oxfordreb52@gmail.com
01-21-2021, 07:16 AM
Yes, oil is a global commodity but the US is far from a small player. In fact, the US is the largest producer of oil in the world.

With the Keystone Pipeline being closed yesterday by the new president, prices will go up as the U.S. will have to purchase more oil from foreign countries. You can imagine what and why this is happening by following the money. And it puts a hardship on everyone when this happens especially the lower income and fixed income population.

westernrider75
01-21-2021, 07:17 AM
Our gas in PA is $2.75 today!

Dantes
01-21-2021, 07:18 AM
My SSI will not off see the price

DIver0258
01-21-2021, 07:21 AM
Everything we buy will increase in price with the increase in fuel prices. Trucks deliver most of our needs.

Exactly, increased oil prices will cost jobs and stall growth. Someone mentioned wind turbines for power, 400 + gallons of oil per turbine changed at least annually. Oil based products for plastics. Transportation costs will increase. The port I worked at had 14000 trucks travel through the terminal daily, these trucks are supplying stores we shop at. All price increases and tax increases will be passed on to the consumer, Also with reduced US production we will allow the major oil producers begin to control the crude market again by making production cuts. All will spin into a cycle we all have experienced before. I will leave the national minimum wage increase for another day.

Thanks to all for staying on topic and not turning this the wrong way.

mk1126
01-21-2021, 07:22 AM
$2.25

Rollie
01-21-2021, 07:22 AM
Will any of you guys be around to complain about it! The Electric car is the future, get onboard ! Spend some of that Communion money....,

Did you ever think about where the power comes from to renew those batteries? Might just be a gas powered power plant, and when gas prices go up so do power costs.

Rollie

Girlcopper
01-21-2021, 07:34 AM
Anybody willing to guess how high gas prices will be in year and 4 years. IMO $3.50 and above $5.00. So will say that good thing, and some will say its economy killer. It will affect everything, most all food prices. There will Alway be demand for crude oil and coal.
Start saving penniesin the piggy bank now. Gas has skyrocketed and then come back down again for decades. Each time its for a different reason. This too shall pass

DOGSAREKEEPERS
01-21-2021, 07:43 AM
Some will say "see, electric cars are the way to go". Grab your stock portfolio.
It will be interesting to watch how losing our own fuel independence will take us to........where?

Pdesensi
01-21-2021, 07:46 AM
Hope they get the bridges done so we can use our golf carts to get around and not use our autos.

mrf6969
01-21-2021, 08:01 AM
Matter of supply and DEMAND. People now more likely to work from home, travel is down, fuel efficient cars getting more prevalent etc. We in TV should have the least worries about gas prices. Since moving here I buy less than 10 gallons of gas a month for the cart and car gets filled(20 gallons)up once a month. Even if gas goes to $4 a gallon, this additional cost will be negligible.
True but the focus should be on how these prices will effect our kids families.

moe1212
01-21-2021, 08:17 AM
if you think business are going to just start paying 15.00 minimum you have another thing coming. This will unemploy millions of workers and or put businesses out of business.

merrymini
01-21-2021, 08:19 AM
Like nature, economies are all intertwined and I cannot see how the price of gas cannot go up with the policies that, I believe, will be pushed forward. Heating and cooling your home, running vehicles, delivery of all goods and food would be affected. Just because you do not have a job doesn’t mean others don’t and these increased costs will affect them mostly and you too. When your grandchildren ask what you left them, you can show them the trillions of dollars of deficits that they will have to pay.

tomhinz
01-21-2021, 08:19 AM
You are right

Hape2Bhr
01-21-2021, 08:20 AM
Y'all just be glad you don't live in the UK - Gas (Petrol) has been over $9 a gallon for years and diesel even more.

Just stop whining.

Might this be the consequences of entitlements (on an island nation)?

With the present and future decimation of our petroleum industry...$12 - 16/gal. :boom:

oldtimes
01-21-2021, 08:24 AM
Whatever happens will hurt some people but help others. There is a 3.3 trillion dollar deficit and the money has to come from someplace so one way or another we are all going to pay.

jbrown132
01-21-2021, 08:27 AM
Matter of supply and DEMAND. People now more likely to work from home, travel is down, fuel efficient cars getting more prevalent etc. We in TV should have the least worries about gas prices. Since moving here I buy less than 10 gallons of gas a month for the cart and car gets filled(20 gallons)up once a month. Even if gas goes to $4 a gallon, this additional cost will be negligible.

For you, what about those poor people who have to work for a living and don’t live under the bubble.

cathiehines
01-21-2021, 08:38 AM
Unfortunately, we won't be for long with the Keystone Pipeline being closed down as of yesterday. Plus, there's a sur-tax on it's way on gas. Really hurts the working families having to commute back and forth to work. Prices of food, anything with plastic will soar.

DAVES
01-21-2021, 08:49 AM
It will definitely go up, but don't worry......the national minimum wage that's going to go up will offset the cost.....:ohdear:

Re: national minimum wage
People do not understand. First of all the dollar is not a defined value. From 1970 or so it takes 7-8 of them to buy the same thing. This past year our dollar lost 7% of it's value.
Fair is in the eyes of the beholder. Savings, pensions, social security it is highly unlikely that they, after taxes will keep pace with inflation.

jbrown132
01-21-2021, 08:55 AM
As prices go up it effects of the cost of almost everything. That coupled with the new $15.00 minimum wage, which will also cause prices to rise and higher unemployment as businesses will pass along these costs to consumers I do not see the economy staying strong very long term. Add on the trillions we are adding to the national debt at some point the bubble is going to burst and it will be time to pay the piper. God help our children and grandchildren when this happens, as we will have left them one heck of a mess.

Marine1974
01-21-2021, 08:55 AM
The minimum wage going up will not offset the cost of gas , food prices going up , will only leave the minimum wage earners poorer .

DAVES
01-21-2021, 08:59 AM
The president just rejoined the Paris Accord invoked more stringent fuel efficiency mandates, imposed a moratorium on oil and natural gas activities in ANWAR and stopped the Keystone pipeline.

What else could he possibly have done to raise the price of gasoline.

What a lot of people don't realize is that every product sold in this country and many services provided use gasoline. Not only with the price of gasoline go up but the price of every product and many services will increase as well. What the president and those of his party don't seem to understand is that this will affect the poor and middle class way more than it will the wealthy and upper middle class.

Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and others in that class will still travel in their private planes and limos. They don'y worry about the cost of bread going through the roof. It's those on government assistance, minimum wage workers and people trying to raise a family that will be hurt by this.

The democrats response will be to raise the minimum wage which will raise prices even more.

In the first few hours of this presidency, this president has done more damage to this country than the past five presidents combined.

I am thankful that I do not make the decisions. Most people, whoever they are, owe more than they have saved. So inflation is their friend. Most people-the biggest debtor is all of us-the national debt. The national debt last time I looked 28 Trillion dollars.
We talk about that number over and over again. How many besides me realize, face reality that we do no comprehend what one Trillion is let alone 28 of them.

The ten year treasury is now paying about 1% with 2% inflation, the fed target they are
as we blink stealing half of what you are being paid.

We are so distracted fighting each other that we are blind to reality.

Scott O
01-21-2021, 09:00 AM
No individual or even country controls gas prices. Oil is sold on the commodity market based on supply and demand. A lot of supply is controlled by Middle East countries including Saudi Arabi. Russia seems to have a hand in pricing also. We are a small player.
We don’t need the other countries right now, we as a country had become self sufficient....but not anymore, so I cannot see any benefits coming from the future....

biker1
01-21-2021, 09:00 AM
Nonsense. People working the lower paying jobs are not working from home. They need to drive to work. Increasing energy costs are regressive.


Matter of supply and DEMAND. People now more likely to work from home, travel is down, fuel efficient cars getting more prevalent etc. We in TV should have the least worries about gas prices. Since moving here I buy less than 10 gallons of gas a month for the cart and car gets filled(20 gallons)up once a month. Even if gas goes to $4 a gallon, this additional cost will be negligible.

sooziesoul
01-21-2021, 09:02 AM
And what if you are retired????Social security , it won’t go up!!!

spip911
01-21-2021, 09:04 AM
Yes but England & Europe have other modes of transportation available: Buses, trains & subways. Unfortunately the USA is a car driving society.

justjim
01-21-2021, 09:07 AM
Matter of supply and DEMAND. People now more likely to work from home, travel is down, fuel efficient cars getting more prevalent etc. We in TV should have the least worries about gas prices. Since moving here I buy less than 10 gallons of gas a month for the cart and car gets filled(20 gallons)up once a month. Even if gas goes to $4 a gallon, this additional cost will be negligible.

So many things can happen in four years and nobody has a crystal ball. Supply and demand is the formula for the price. There is likely to be less demand (electric vehicles) and plenty of supply. One answer could be about the same as taxes would make up the difference. But that seems wrong. There are Federal taxes and State taxes on gas. The last time the Federal Tax increased was 1993. It’s highly likely this will go up. States have raised gasoline taxes on a regular basis since 1993.

Our roads and bridges need lots of repairs. My guess would be around 3.25 a gallon in four years.

lkagele
01-21-2021, 09:08 AM
Whatever happens will hurt some people but help others. There is a 3.3 trillion dollar deficit and the money has to come from someplace so one way or another we are all going to pay.

I don't believe that 'the money has to come from someplace' is accurate. Our problem isn't generating enough income. The problem is that our government spends too much.

Our ruling class has absolutely NO intention of paying down the national debt. It's our great, great grandchildren that aren't even born yet that will pay the price for this country's reckless fiscal policies.

What I find ironic is that our push for 'green energy' is probably worse on our environment and our nation that fossil fuel production. An abundance of rare earth metals are needed for solar and wind energy production. Open pit mining is needed which ravages the land and, yes, takes huge amount of fossil fuels to perform. Most rare earth minerals needed come from China making us further dependent on that country.

rjneumann47
01-21-2021, 09:08 AM
It will definitely go up, but don't worry......the national minimum wage that's going to go up will offset the cost.....:ohdear:

Do you really think for one second that employers of minimum wage employees are not already raising prices to off set increase?

allenpegg1@gmail.com
01-21-2021, 09:08 AM
We don’t need the other countries right now, we as a country had become self sufficient....but not anymore, so I cannot see any benefits coming from the future....

Not so. USA is a major player in setting gas prices since we're self sufficient - when fracking goes, we'll again become dependent on others...

biker1
01-21-2021, 09:10 AM
I believe the price of gas will double within 3 years. The real key is to watch how much US production declines. Demand will increase as the world’s population is vaccinated. If OPEC is smart they won’t increase production and will profit from the increase in demand. The new administration will be fine with this as it will fit their narrative. People of means will buy electric cars with a substantial tax credit. The less fortunate will have an ever increasing percentage of their income go to energy.


Anybody willing to guess how high gas prices will be in year and 4 years. IMO $3.50 and above $5.00. So will say that good thing, and some will say its economy killer. It will affect everything, most all food prices. There will Alway be demand for crude oil and coal.

oldtimes
01-21-2021, 09:12 AM
I don't believe that 'the money has to come from someplace' is accurate. Our problem isn't generating enough income. The problem is that our government spends too much.

Our ruling class has absolutely NO intention of paying down the national debt. It's our great, great grandchildren that aren't even born yet that will pay the price for this country's reckless fiscal policies.

What I find ironic is that our push for 'green energy' is probably worse on our environment and our nation that fossil fuel production. An abundance of rare earth metals are needed for solar and wind energy production. Open pit mining is needed which ravages the land and, yes, takes huge amount of fossil fuels to perform. Most rare earth minerals needed come from China making us further dependent on that country.

I totally agree with you but the 3.3 trillion is already spent and the money to pay that off still needs to come from someplace.

DAVES
01-21-2021, 09:19 AM
As prices go up it effects of the cost of almost everything. That coupled with the new $15.00 minimum wage, which will also cause prices to rise and higher unemployment as businesses will pass along these costs to consumers I do not see the economy staying strong very long term. Add on the trillions we are adding to the national debt at some point the bubble is going to burst and it will be time to pay the piper. God help our children and grandchildren when this happens, as we will have left them one heck of a mess.

I do not have the answers but, one of the cries during the American Revolution was no taxation without representation. With the national debt, we are taxing people not old enough to vote and people not even born yet.

We, all of us are hooked on spending money we don't have-the national debt. I have a pile of German Reichmarks that belonged to my grandparents. A lesson either not learned or perhaps forgotten. Even the german government will not honor them in anyway. They are interesting. A nice printing job. I'm not selling mine but you can buy tons of them on ebay.
Perhaps we should all frame one and hang it on your wall as a reminder.

As today, it was not just Germany. I also have an Italian printed bill that says due to current financial issues this bill is poorly printed. When, things are straightened out we will exchange it. Hum, I do not know if Italy will honor that promise either.

It cannot happen here? People in Germany and Italy thought the same. What to do?
BEATS ME.

Mardarlowe
01-21-2021, 09:20 AM
I will have the number one combo with coke to drink. That will be $21.50. Please pull around.

oldtimes
01-21-2021, 09:33 AM
People of means will buy electric cars with a substantial tax credit. The less fortunate will have an ever increasing percentage of their income go to energy.

What is going to happen when electricity is our only source of power and it goes down? Also batteries are toxic waste, what are we going to do about that and lithium batteries are known fire hazards. We just had a fire in our neighborhood from a lithium battery that was charging in the garage. There are pros and cons to everything.

biker1
01-21-2021, 09:40 AM
I am not arguing the pros and cons of batteries. I am only suggesting what may happen. Feel free to start a new thread. By the way, nearly every portable device, including 100% of cellphones, has a lithium-ion battery and very few are bursting into flames.

What is going to happen when electricity is our only source of power and it goes down? Also batteries are toxic waste, what are we going to do about that and lithium batteries are known fire hazards. We just had a fire in our neighborhood from a lithium battery that was charging in the garage. There are pros and cons to everything.

oldtimes
01-21-2021, 09:46 AM
I am not arguing the pros and cons of batteries. I am only suggesting what may happen. Feel free to start a new thread.

You're right I should not have used you as an example. The point I was trying to make was that everyone is so concerned about the cost of gas but no one is considering the cost of alternate energy sources. One way or another it is going to cost us all.

JP
01-21-2021, 09:47 AM
SUV's, that typically have poor millage, will be for sale like crazy because people won't want to pay the increased gas prices.

tophcfa
01-21-2021, 09:51 AM
In the last few years not only did the US become energy independent on oil but also was the marginal producer in the world. Based on the proclamations of the incoming administration, existing fracking operations and drilling permits will come under increased regulatory pressure to be downscaled or eliminated. The purpose is to reduce the carbon emissions.

The impact on the economy will be two fold. First the prices of all energy sources will go up which will restrain the growth of the economy and put a disproportionate burden on the poor and lower middle class.

The second and possibly the biggest hurdle to returning to the pre pandemic record low unemployment levels is that the US will lose its primary competitive advantage for manufacturing. This will be a major drag for jobs particularly in the Midwest which had seen a revival of sorts due to not only cheaper energy costs but the USMCA agreement, deregulations and protective tariffs.

I agree with the above, but would add that it will also put a disproportionate burden on people who choose to live in rural areas. One of the primary ways they try to reduce carbon is to tax the hell out of energy and use the proceeds on public transit. People living in rural areas depend greatly on their automobiles as a way of life and Public transit simply is not an option. Furthermore, many rural folks need to drive gas guzzling four wheel drive vehicles to safely navigate the associated terrain. Hugh carbon taxes on energy is a form of forced urbanization.

tophcfa
01-21-2021, 09:59 AM
if you think business are going to just start paying 15.00 minimum you have another thing coming. This will unemploy millions of workers and or put businesses out of business.

It will also be a tipping point where many repetitive tasks will be turned over to robots. Robots will be flipping your burgers. They never show up late, call in sick, talk back to the boss, require benefits, and don’t take bathroom breaks or have to wear a mask.

biker1
01-21-2021, 10:12 AM
You are correct, alternate energy sources cost more than fossil fuels. The less fortunate, however, will wind up spending a greater percentage of their income on energy.

You're right I should not have used you as an example. The point I was trying to make was that everyone is so concerned about the cost of gas but no one is considering the cost of alternate energy sources. One way or another it is going to cost us all.

tophcfa
01-21-2021, 10:17 AM
I am thankful that I do not make the decisions. Most people, whoever they are, owe more than they have saved. So inflation is their friend. Most people-the biggest debtor is all of us-the national debt. The national debt last time I looked 28 Trillion dollars.
We talk about that number over and over again. How many besides me realize, face reality that we do no comprehend what one Trillion is let alone 28 of them.

The ten year treasury is now paying about 1% with 2% inflation, the fed target they are
as we blink stealing half of what you are being paid.

We are so distracted fighting each other that we are blind to reality.

Very good post, until the last few years the Federal Reserve had a longstanding monetary policy that they attempted to set interest rates so that savers earned a real rate of return above the rate of inflation. Our nation was not addicted to debt anywhere near how it currently is. That has all changed, individuals, corporations, and our nation are all up to their eyeballs in debt, savings are at all time lows, and interest rates are near zero. We are in an unsustainable bubble that keeps growing, and the longer we let it grow, without making some hard choices, the worse it will be when it bursts. Our children and grandchildren are not going to have it nearly as good as we enjoyed. Our national debt is currently at about 100% of GDP and growing exponentially as we enter indebtedness levels of countries like Greece and Italy, not good : (

Tom M
01-21-2021, 10:22 AM
There are sites out there that track long range oil futures and predictions on oil prices. In 2010 oil prices were over $100/barrel.

According to sites I've seen, they aren't projecting oil prices that high again for at least the next 10 years.

That may be in part due to generally lower demand and significant supply. Improving fuel efficiency in the U.S., lower fuel usage as some of the impact of 2020 working from home will become permanent, and growing trends toward hybrid and electric vehicles.

On the flip side, taxes on gas will continue to rise and may become the major part of the cost of fuel. Not sure how they're going to have electric vehicles pay tax for road use, but something will have to evolve on that front eventually.

Outside of dramatic tax impact, I don't see any reason why gas prices should be over $3.50 in the next 4 years. IMO.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" -- Abraham Lincoln

Moderator
01-21-2021, 10:31 AM
This thread has gone off the political deep end. TOTV is not the forum for political discussion. Please take it somewhere else.

Moderator