e-bike information

[tomwed]

Hello, Does anyone know how I can get in touch with The Villages e-bike club? Does anyone know where I can get an e-bike battery rebuilt locally?
thank-you in advance

ps I'll leave you with a joke.

"I've really had it with my dog," says a guy to his neighbor. "He'll chase anyone on a bicycle."

"Hmmm, that is a problem," said the neighbor. "What are you thinking of doing about it?"

"Guess the only answer is to take away his bike!"

[Toymeister]

I have spoke to the former ebike club president within the past week.

He said for liability reasons they disestablished in favor of the Sumter Landing bike club, slbikeclub.org. Ebikes are welcome there. They allow all classes of ebikes 1, 2 or 3. If you have a class 2 or 3 they ask that you only use pedal assist.

As far as rebuilding the battery pack there are places that do that. Personally, I would just add a rear rack and buy a penguin battery and use that over a proprietary battery pack. For that matter you probably have a penguin or bottle battery already. You can just remove and replace (no rebuild). If you splice in a pannier/ rack mounted battery you can just tap into the bikes Anderson powerpole or xt60 connectors.

In the future, use a cyclestator charger to charge your batter to 80% charge. Doing this will increase your charge cycles to over 1,600. This 'nearly full' charging is what electric cars use to get their batteries to last so long. Bike companies are not worried about that so they include a cheap 100% charger.

All that said if you want some help I'll see what I can do.

[tomwed]

Thank you very much for your advice.

1] I want to visit the bike club with my friend or send an email to the group and see what other e-bikes they are riding or recommend. My friend wants a new $1,000 to $1,500 e-bike but understandably reluctant to buy one sight unseen.

2] My ebike is made by Sun Bicycles in Miami, purchased locally in Wildwood and 5 or 6 years old. It does have a back rack cage above the rear tire and the 16"x6"x3" proprietary battery slides into the rack connecting the contacts to the rest of the bike.

The Bike pdf manual is http://ashlandelectricbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/Sun-Electrolite-Owners-Manual.pdf

SUN ELECTROLITE BATTERY SPECIFICATIONS:
 Lithium-Polymer Battery, 36VDC, 10Ah rating
 Custom Alloy Casing with Keyed Battery Lock
 Dual Fuse Protection, 20A main and 5A controller fuses
 5HR Full Recharge Time

I see now it's lithium-polymer and not lithium-ion.

ps
This support is what makes The Villages special to me. Before leasing a Smart Car the Smart Car Club was very helpful and much appreciated. Years ago I gave chromebook, computer and recipes on TOTV.

[Toymeister]

If you want a quality ebike at that price point your friend will have to buy a bike online, no question.

There are several choices depending what type of bike s/he wants. Radrover is #1 ebike brand however they cheap out at the 999 or 1199 level. There main offense is stating the 350 watt motor is 500, the 500 is 750.


At 1500.00 there are plenty of great choices.

On the lower budget I would get a lectric brand for 899 and see how s/he likes it. At 1500 I would buy a Juiced scorpion. Ideally spend 2299 for a Juiced cross current. Easily this is a 4200 at a bike shop.

[Toymeister]

Your battery is proprietary. It looks like a first generation lithium designed to mimic the shape of one of the later 36 volt lead acids. As you have probably found out the replacement cost from Sun is outrageous.

It is 10 amp hours and 36 volts, small by modern standards. Fairly cheap as these go, in a different battery shape.

I would remove the battery cells from the casing (to save weight) reinstall (so the bike looks good) and put one of these in on the rear rack: (amazon) Brand: Unit Pack Power
4.7 out of 5 stars 181Reviews
UPP Factory Direct(US Warehouse) Ebike Battery - 52V 48V 36V 13 Ah/17.5Ah Electric Bike Battery for 1000W to 200W Bafang Voilamart AW Ancheer and Other Motor Bicycle - Lithium ion Batteries Pack $239.00

If you want to feel what a higher end ebike is like I can meet up and you can try mine out (no gain for me). I have had five Ebikes and built one.

[dhdallas]

Thank you very much for your advice.

1] I want to visit the bike club with my friend or send an email to the group and see what other e-bikes they are riding or recommend. My friend wants a new $1,000 to $1,500 e-bike but understandably reluctant to buy one sight unseen.

2] My ebike is made by Sun Bicycles in Miami, purchased locally in Wildwood and 5 or 6 years old. It does have a back rack cage above the rear tire and the 16"x6"x3" proprietary battery slides into the rack connecting the contacts to the rest of the bike.

The Bike pdf manual is http://ashlandelectricbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/Sun-Electrolite-Owners-Manual.pdf

SUN ELECTROLITE BATTERY SPECIFICATIONS:
 Lithium-Polymer Battery, 36VDC, 10Ah rating
 Custom Alloy Casing with Keyed Battery Lock
 Dual Fuse Protection, 20A main and 5A controller fuses
 5HR Full Recharge Time

I see now it's lithium-polymer and not lithium-ion.

ps
This support is what makes The Villages special to me. Before leasing a Smart Car the Smart Car Club was very helpful and much appreciated. Years ago I gave chromebook, computer and recipes on TOTV.

I have 2 ebikes currently and another on preorder from Sonders. I built the one with a cheap 1000w direct drive rear wheel kit from Amazon and a generic battery from ebay installing the kit on a standard hardtail mountain bike. It works great.

Then I have a 1000w Bafang mid-drive kit on another standard hardtail MTB with a battery that has Samsung cells. It is one powerful and wicked fast machine.

I have a Sondors MadMods moped style ebike on preorder.

Read the articles on Electrek for their opinions. They love Rad Power Bikes but I think a lot of Rad bikes look like they just took a DIY kit and installed it for you. Rad was the first company to market affordable bikes direct to the consumer so they got the jump on all the others.

I think bikes from Ride1Up, Sondors and Lectric are better built with hidden integrated components & are way better looking bikes for about the same money. My neighbors have 3 Lectric bikes and they are really nice & well built.


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/101RcnhXx7Xo4CU7-ffGBSzHB00uHx0E7

[Toymeister]

I might as well add this since this thread may turn into a clearing house for ebike information.

People tend to look for three things in Ebikes:

Size of motor
Range on a charge
And price

Most motors accurately state the wattage (except Rad power Bikes)

Range is based upon an athletic petite woman going fairly slow. The real range is closer to half the stated range.

To achieve the price they skimp on what you don't value.

Almost every bike under 1,500 has smaller mechanical brakes. Hydraulic is far better. You are going faster, great brakes are needed.

Every ebike needs a way to determine if you are pedaling. Almost all bikes under 2100 use cadence sensors on the crank. This tells the computer that the crank is turning. This means you can 'ghost pedal' this gives a somewhat unnatural electric boost to the pedaling that you aren't actually doing. You usually see this at higher speeds or downhill. Frankly it feels weird. Sonders and Rad Power use this system as well as Lectric.

Nicer bikes use torque sensors to mimic how hard you are really pedaling. Straining to go uphill? The bike helps more.

[Braddy2939]

Michael
BMS Bike Services
(352) 492-2864

[wmailman]

Great thread. I am an active road biker, ride about it 20-40 miles/day, 3-4x/week, at about 12-14 mph. Female, 5 feet tall. I am looking to purchase my first ebike mainly because I have a hard time with hills here in Pa. What brand and bike would be a good value for the money, be reliable and last a long time? Would like to stay under $3000.

[Toymeister]

Great thread. I am an active road biker, ride about it 20-40 miles/day, 3-4x/week, at about 12-14 mph. Female, 5 feet tall. I am looking to purchase my first ebike mainly because I have a hard time with hills here in Pa. What brand and bike would be a good value for the money, be reliable and last a long time? Would like to stay under $3000.

CrossCurrent X | Best Electric Commuter Bike | Juiced Bikes (https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrentx)

Why?

It comes in different frame sizes. That is not common in cheaper Ebikes.

Torque (not cadence) sensor

Better components, not the cheapest cassette, hydraulic brakes. Better tires.

Massive one kilowatt battery.

This will exceed your requirements for speed and range. It is a common choice for NYC food delivery bikers.

Designed by a Princton grad in Aerospace engineering who speaks Mandrin, in his own factory. It is not a contract bike like most Ebikes.

Price 2299, less 50 coupon, shipped.

[toeser]

If you want a quality ebike at that price point your friend will have to buy a bike online, no question.

There are several choices depending what type of bike s/he wants. Radrover is #1 ebike brand however they cheap out at the 999 or 1199 level. There main offense is stating the 350 watt motor is 500, the 500 is 750.


At 1500.00 there are plenty of great choices.

On the lower budget I would get a lectric brand for 899 and see how s/he likes it. At 1500 I would buy a Juiced scorpion. Ideally spend 2299 for a Juiced cross current. Easily this is a 4200 at a bike shop.


I have two Juiced Crosscurrent S2 bikes, one for here and one for up north. I got them both on periodic sales for $1699. They are fantastic bikes. If I go for a 15 MPH average speed, I get 90 miles with plenty of battery reserve. They have the best bike computer I have seen. Owners can set a governor speed, battery reserve level, different ways of engaging assist, cruise control, six different assist levels, plus a throttle. I don't tend to ride fast, but I have had the bike over 30 MPH - but that just sucks the battery dry.

Both of my bikes are highly modified with different handgrips allowing for a handlebar end mirror, shock seatpost, new seat, different handlebar post that allows for upright riding, etc.

I appreciated your comments on battery management.

P.S. I ride the eBikes about 10% of the time (when I just want fun). The rest of the time, I'm on a hybrid averaging around 10,000 miles per year.

[Toymeister]

The programmable charger is Grin technologies Cycle Satiator. 305.00 on Amazon. Or almost as good Luna Charger 48V Advanced 300W Ebike Charger - Luna Cycle (https://lunacycle.com/luna-charger-48v-advanced-300w-ebike-charger/) for 99.95 from Luna.

These will charge to less than 100% and extend (double) battery life. Some batteries cost over 1,000 so for those it is worth it

[DAVES]

Hello, Does anyone know how I can get in touch with The Villages e-bike club? Does anyone know where I can get an e-bike battery rebuilt locally?
thank-you in advance

ps I'll leave you with a joke.

"I've really had it with my dog," says a guy to his neighbor. "He'll chase anyone on a bicycle."

"Hmmm, that is a problem," said the neighbor. "What are you thinking of doing about it?"

"Guess the only answer is to take away his bike!"

Re: battery rebuild
Applies to all with rechargeable equipment. Your battery is a series of cells, batteries, to get up to the required voltage. The cells are strapped together and the straps are tack welded to the cells. What happens is one cell is always weaker than the rest. The stronger cells will reverse the -polarity in the weaker cell and destroy it. You can connect the battery to a higher voltage charger and sometimes get it working. At best it is very temporary. You need to replace all the cells. Doing one is like changing one bulb in a multi bulb light fixture. You pull out your ladder climb up and replace one bulb and next week another will blow.
Replacing the cells is easy, if the case is designed to be opened. It might be glued shut as opposed to having screws that are removable. In any case, it is usually less costly to buy a new battery with a new case. The case is just a box and of little value. Knock off batteries? They are made to be cheaper. The cells there are different quality and priced cells. Is it worth it?
A problem for all rechargeable equipment in Florida. If, you leave it in your garage the temperature regularly gets over 100 degrees. That is tough on all batteries. Your stand by losses goes way up. You forget to charge it and find that you have killed the battery.
Lithium Ion batteries. You will get far more recharge cycles if you do not run them way down before recharging.

[LTarter]

Give Jerry a call (352) 406-2577 He rebuilt my 36 volt bike battery. He is local and very reasonable and very good at what he does.

[New Englander]

CrossCurrent X | Best Electric Commuter Bike | Juiced Bikes (https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrentx)

Why?

It comes in different frame sizes. That is not common in cheaper Ebikes.

Torque (not cadence) sensor

Better components, not the cheapest cassette, hydraulic brakes. Better tires.

Massive one kilowatt battery.

This will exceed your requirements for speed and range. It is a common choice for NYC food delivery bikers.

Designed by a Princton grad in Aerospace engineering who speaks Mandrin, in his own factory. It is not a contract bike like most Ebikes.

Price 2299, less 50 coupon, shipped.

Do you have to assemble it yourself and does it come with a good charger?

[Toymeister]

Attach handle bar and front tire. It comes with a standard charger.

[New Englander]

Attach handle bar and front tire. It comes with a standard charger.

Thanks

[Toymeister]

Bruce (not that Bruce), rode my bike and wrote this, however he was unable to post.

Here it is:

In my humble opinion, I think where and how you are going to use the ebike is the number one consideration.



If you are just going to use it in the villages then just about any bike may do. They are all welcome on the multi-modal paths and are not forced to ride on the roads. I think folks pay more for an ebike than a scooter because they don’t want to ride on the road as it is more dangerous. I’d almost vote for an Lectric bike at $899 for this activity.



If you are going to want to ride on more dedicated bike paths outside of the villages, then you may lean more to an ebike that looks more like a conventional bike. I know some casual bike riders don’t even like road bikers training on dedicated bike paths at 20-25 mph. It’s too dangerous. A little swerve and everybody involved can have serious injuries. Fast ebikes (although possibly legal today) may not be welcome on these paths either



Second consideration is how you are going to use it. If you can admit it’s mainly for the electric boost and to stay off the roads, then again any ebike will do.



But if you say you want to actually pedal sometimes, then I think a more conventional looking bike with different size frames for different size folks will probably be a better option. Prove this for yourself by test riding the bikes and decide how far you would be comfortable pedalling without e- power.



So if you are going for a more conventional bike looking ebike, then mail order vs brick and mortar store is the next consideration. Mail order is usually less expensive, but all adjustments, comfort customizations, and warranty issues (to some extent) are on you.



A store will let you actually try out different bikes so that you can find the bike that feels good to you. A store will take care of adjustments, comfort customizations, and warranty issues and may even extend the warranty service to other geographical locations.



Batttery replacement cost may be a consideration also. $1200 battery replacement is surely price gouging. And as ebikes continue to flourish, I’d hope re-building the battery becomes more common to keep that price in line.



And then finally, in flat Florida how long will it be before the novelty of the bike wears off and folks go back to their golf carts, cars, and even scooters. I’d be interested to hear from the non-bike looking ebike users on this topic .

[EdFNJ]

A little off topic but do people buy these "E-BIKES" actually for bicycling use or simply for use as a sit-on Segway like touring 2 wheeler type of thing? I see them every morning along Morse on the MMP zipping past us and have never seen anyone doing anything but slowly moving the peddle with the bike zipping along the path. There was no way they were bicycling. Just curious to know the true actual purpose. Doesn't seem like cross country biking for sure. :D Can they be driven on the roads like a regular bike or are they limited due to the motor on them? I kind of like the idea to take out on some of the PAVED state park trails. I used to be in the Segway club till it for all intents and purposes shut down and enjoyed coasting around cities all over FL on a rented Segway trips with the club. Seems like these might be a cheaper replacement for the same purpose now that Segway's are no longer manufactured and the guy who provided Segways to non-owners (which made up probably 95% of the club) is no longer doing so..

Edit: Do they rent these e-bikes anywhere?

Edit edit: Some questions answered in post just above this.

[Toymeister]

A little off topic but do people buy these "E-BIKES" actually for bicycling use or simply for use as a sit-on Segway like touring 2 wheeler type of thing? I see them every morning along Morse on the MMP zipping past us and have never seen anyone doing anything but slowly moving the peddle with the bike zipping along the path. There was no way they were bicycling. Just curious to know the true actual purpose. Doesn't seem like cross country biking for sure. :D Can they be driven on the roads like a regular bike or are they limited due to the motor on them? I kind of like the idea to take out on some of the PAVED state park trails. I used to be in the Segway club till it for all intents and purposes shut down and enjoyed coasting around cities all over FL on a rented Segway trips with the club. Seems like these might be a cheaper replacement for the same purpose now that Segway's are no longer manufactured and the guy who provided Segways to non-owners (which made up probably 95% of the club) is no longer doing so..

Edit: Do they rent these e-bikes anywhere?

Edit edit: Some questions answered in post just above this.

I think what you are asking is can they be used as an electric moped (throttle only) most can. Can they be operated wherever bikes are allowed to operate? Per a recent Florida law (Aug 2020) yes they can unless specifically forbidden.

Now would you use them as an electric moped? Not likely as the range is so limited, throttle only mode uses some serious juice. The bikes computers do vary but one way they can work on is you put 100 watts of effort pedaling (bike effort is measured in watts) and it puts in 50 or 100 or 150, this allows you to run in a high gear if you wanted to.

The reality is you bike more often and further. I take mine to my favorite off campus grocery store (no cart access) 19 miles RT. I get out and get some exercise pedaling the entire way. More exercise is a good thing for most of us.

[TWolf]

Hello. I am in of the research phase for my first purchase of an e-bike and would appreciate any recommendations with respect to specific equipment or e-bikes you would recommend. In my research I have tentatively focused on the features and reasoning on the list below.

1) Price Range: $2500 to $3000

2) Bike Model: Combination Mountain/Urban, rear wheel hub motor. Planned usage anticipated to be 80% urban riding around the Villages and 20% usage on state trails (former railroad corridors). It is my understanding that the larger tires also provide a more comfortable ride

3) Drive: 750 watt rear hub geared motor. My understanding is that drive motor can be not larger than 750 watts, and maximum speed of 20mph to be considered a class 2 bike. Also understand that rear hub drives create less stress on derailer equipment.

4) Battery: Current thoughts are 48 to 52 volts with best suited amp requirement. My current understanding is to seek out the bigger commercial battery producers and stay clear of proprietary batteries. This is one area I definitely need advise in.

5) Electric/motor Controller: definitely need advise here

6). Brakes: Hydraulic disk

7)Availability: I have identified several bikes that somewhat fit the above criteria, however identified bikes are subscription offering only with no delivery dates. Further review indicate existing backlog on completed orders of 4 months and no suggestion as to when future orders would be shipped

Any help or recommendations provided are appreciated

[Toymeister]

TJ,

With plans for trails with loose gravel you will want a fat(er) tire bike.

The 750 watt power limit is the Federal standard for Ebikes. However, that standard does not establish if that is 750 watts continuous, nominal, or peak watts so there is some wink and nod, there are different 750 watt motors

I would not get too power hungry. The reality is it sucks down the battery to use a lot of watts and you probably won't use much. As a measure of usage I am neither athletic, petite or shorter. I use 150 to 350 watts to move a heavy ebike 14 to 19 mph. However, bigger battery comes with bigger motors and better components. So you get the motor to buy into the better components.

Many ebike companies start with crowd funded site and still do. It is part of their marketing. Sonders, Rad Power, and Juiced bikes all use this timeline: crowd funded, then 2-4 months of no availability then stocked bikes.

I would consider a Bolton Warthog bike or a Juiced Rip Current S, both in in stock.

[sammy8duck]

I am interested in purchasing the Ariel Rider C-Class. It is a step thru which is what I prefer. Is anyone familiar with this bike?

[Toymeister]

That is a Rad Power City 3 with the optional basket but instead of the direct drive (no gears) hub motor, it is a Bafang hub drive.

Seems like a fantastic price.