Coming Soon - The Vaccine Passport

[coffeebean]

This is a great article about what is in our future for proof of vaccination and/or negative test for Covid......

Coming Soon: The ‘Vaccine Passport’ - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html)

[golfing eagles]

This is a great article about what is in our future for proof of vaccination and/or negative test for Covid......

Coming Soon: The ‘Vaccine Passport’ - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html)

So, where is our "vaccine passport" for tuberculosis, dengue, rubella, poliomyelitis, trypanosomiasis, and visceral larva migrans????? I thought so. Just another example of how a minor player in the world of infectious disease has blossomed into a full blown phobia. .....and don't forget your mask:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So, where is our "vaccine passport" for tuberculosis, dengue, rubella, poliomyelitis, trypanosomiasis, and visceral larva migrans????? I thought so. Just another example of how a minor player in the world of infectious disease has blossomed into a full blown phobia. .....and don't forget your mask:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

There are some countries that won't let you in without proof of certain immunizations (such as malaria). I think it'd be a great idea, streamline all your paperwork, if you could submit that proof whenever you get/renew your passport, and it'd add the notation on the inside of the back page.

Any proof that needs to be more current, you could submit the proof, and they'd mark it on your current passport for future use.

[Bill14564]

A silly speculation piece answering questions that haven't been asked about something that hasn't (and hopefully won't ever) come to pass.

[OpusX1]

Already exists. If you travel to Many places in S. America and most places in Africa you have to have a Yellow Fever vaccination. I am sure other vaccines are required for many places.

[golfing eagles]

There are some countries that won't let you in without proof of certain immunizations (such as malaria). I think it'd be a great idea, streamline all your paperwork, if you could submit that proof whenever you get/renew your passport, and it'd add the notation on the inside of the back page.

Any proof that needs to be more current, you could submit the proof, and they'd mark it on your current passport for future use.

It's one way to go. IMHO it's more fascist than democratic, but it's a new world.
PS: there is no immunization for malaria, you have to take chloroquine prophylactically for 2 weeks prior to departure and 4 weeks after return. (Or an alternative drug if travelling to a chloroquine resistant area)

[OpusX1]

I’m not sure if the yellow fever vaccine is required by the country your visiting or required by the US in order to get back in.

[dhdallas]

So, where is our "vaccine passport" for tuberculosis, dengue, rubella, poliomyelitis, trypanosomiasis, and visceral larva migrans????? I thought so. Just another example of how a minor player in the world of infectious disease has blossomed into a full blown phobia. .....and don't forget your mask:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I agree 100%! Well said!

[blueash]

If you travel to Many places in S. America and most places in Africa you have to have a Yellow Fever vaccination. I am sure other vaccines are required for many places.
I’m not sure if the yellow fever vaccine is required by the country your visiting or required by the US in order to get back in.

Google, a well known search engine, is available to answer your question and fill in your gaps in knowledge. Countries that require yellow fever vaccine:

Angola
Burundi
Cameroon
Central African Republic
Congo, Republic of
Cote d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
Democratic Republic of Congo
French Guiana
Gabon
Ghana
Guinea-Bissau
Liberia
Mali
*****
Sierra Leone
Togo
Uganda

All but one of these countries are in Africa so "many places in South America" is inaccurate. There are 17 African nations that require yellow fever vaccine, and there are 54 to 56 countries in Africa depending on the classification of two disputed territories. So it is also inaccurate to write that "most" countries in Africa require vaccination. There are some additional nations that require vaccination if you are coming from a country where yellow fever is endemic.

While you are sure that other vaccines are required for many places, that is also incorrect. The only other travel vaccine that is required is meningococcal if you are going to Saudi Arabia for the Hajj or Umrah pilgrimage

I apologize if this post seems harsh, but there is so much misinformation that is posted on TOTV that perhaps the occasional vigorous fact check will get this place to be more reality focused.

[blueash]

So, where is our "vaccine passport" for tuberculosis, dengue, rubella, poliomyelitis, trypanosomiasis, and visceral larva migrans????? I thought so. Just another example of how a minor player in the world of infectious disease has blossomed into a full blown phobia. .....and don't forget your mask:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I do love good sarcasm, but some people actually might think you are serious when you posted this. There is no effective vaccine for TB, While there is a vaccine for Dengue it is of low benefit and those who receive it are prone to severe dengue if they are infected. Rubella is a trivial illness other than its teratogenic risk. Polio is under excellent control internationally with vaccination being the major reason for its near elimination.
There is no vaccine for trypanosomiasis nor larva migrans. On the other hand, Covid in 2020 is the world's 6th leading cause of death (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/12/11/945171603/global-causes-of-death-significant-shifts-from-2000-to-2019) and would certainly be higher if there hadn't been a vigorous effort to try to contain its spread.

For historical perspective, the worst year in the US for deaths from polio was 1952 when 3145 people died. In Florida alone we have now had over 27,000 deaths from Covid. There have been many single days where the deaths from Covid in the US have been greater than the deaths in the entire year from Polio in its worst year.

To trivialize Covid as just another illness ignores all the science, epidemiology, and over 400,000 dead Americans. We have lost more Americans in one year to Covid than the total deaths of Americans in WW 2. Nobody seems to think those deaths were trivial or should be mocked. More Americans died from Covid in December than during the entire Vietnam war.

Some people don't find a disease that is the 6th leading cause of death, the leading infectious disease cause of death in the world in 2020, and one that kills more people than wars did to be "a minor player"

[golfing eagles]

I do love good sarcasm, but some people actually might think you are serious when you posted this. There is no effective vaccine for TB, While there is a vaccine for Dengue it is of low benefit and those who receive it are prone to severe dengue if they are infected. Rubella is a trivial illness other than its teratogenic risk. Polio is under excellent control internationally with vaccination being the major reason for its near elimination.
There is no vaccine for trypanosomiasis nor larva migrans. On the other hand, Covid in 2020 is the world's 6th leading cause of death (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/12/11/945171603/global-causes-of-death-significant-shifts-from-2000-to-2019) and would certainly be higher if there hadn't been a vigorous effort to try to contain its spread.

For historical perspective, the worst year in the US for deaths from polio was 1952 when 3145 people died. In Florida alone we have now had over 27,000 deaths from Covid. There have been many single days where the deaths from Covid in the US have been greater than the deaths in the entire year from Polio in its worst year.

To trivialize Covid as just another illness ignores all the science, epidemiology, and over 400,000 dead Americans. We have lost more Americans in one year to Covid than the total deaths of Americans in WW 2. Nobody seems to think those deaths were trivial or should be mocked. More Americans died from Covid in December than during the entire Vietnam war.

Some people don't find a disease that is the 6th leading cause of death, the leading infectious disease cause of death in the world in 2020, and one that kills more people than wars did to be "a minor player"

Compare it with smallpox over the last 500 years or Yersinia pestis, or even Spanish flu 100 years ago-----It may be a predominant infectious disease today, but in the scheme of things----A MINOR PLAYER!

By the way, the 8th leading cause of death in the US year after year in the last 40 years is-----wait for it-----seasonal flu.

[pdmarc1]

500 people in the United States have died so far after taking covid vaccines. See children's defense health fund vaccine site Robert Kennedy who is against pushing vaccines that are not needed. This information was posted on the Lew Rockwell website. For more information about vaccines see Dr Mercola website. The mainstream media is saying the people that died was from some other cause. Hank Aaron got the vaccines and then he was dead. His health was good. The same with the Miami Doctor. I am the same age at 56. There is no doubt the vaccine killed him. But it is your choice to take that chance, you cannot sue the vaccine makers if you get injured or your loved ones cant sue if you die.

The latest news is also that a woman in Virginia 58 years old and a man in California who was pro-vaccine and excited to take them have died yesterday after receiving the first dose of covid vaccines.

Please be careful Dr Mercola said these vaccines comprise PEG (polyethylene glycol) nanoparticles (particles the size of 10-9 meters smaller than colloidal at 10-6 meters) that cause allergic reaction and anaphlactic shock and death. The smaller the particle size the greater the reactivity so the PEG nanoparticles react quickly. Yes, PEG the same ingredient in antifreeze is in your vaccine despite the loud denials of the people distributing it. Do not risk death and take this vaccine, it does not stop covid.
I am 56 years old and have a masters in engineering from GWU and did the research and am not taking any vaccines because they are not animal tested, and it is not proven safe. You are no more than a guinea pig for the US government. I worked for the US government as an engineer for 30 years. Please do the work and research yourself before you rush to get these injections. I do not want to hear of people in our Villages community passing away from something that could have been avoided.

[jack.hunter00@yahoo.com]

I have gotten both of my shots.

[coffeebean]

500 people in the United States have died so far after taking covid vaccines. See children's defense health fund vaccine site Robert Kennedy who is against pushing vaccines that are not needed. This information was posted on the Lew Rockwell website. For more information about vaccines see Dr Mercola website. The mainstream media is saying the people that died was from some other cause. Hank Aaron got the vaccines and then he was dead. His health was good. The same with the Miami Doctor. I am the same age at 56. There is no doubt the vaccine killed him. But it is your choice to take that chance, you cannot sue the vaccine makers if you get injured or your loved ones cant sue if you die.

The latest news is also that a woman in Virginia 58 years old and a man in California who was pro-vaccine and excited to take them have died yesterday after receiving the first dose of covid vaccines.

Please be careful Dr Mercola said these vaccines comprise PEG (polyethylene glycol) nanoparticles (particles the size of 10-9 meters smaller than colloidal at 10-6 meters) that cause allergic reaction and anaphlactic shock and death. The smaller the particle size the greater the reactivity so the PEG nanoparticles react quickly. Yes, PEG the same ingredient in antifreeze is in your vaccine despite the loud denials of the people distributing it. Do not risk death and take this vaccine, it does not stop covid.
I am 56 years old and have a masters in engineering from GWU and did the research and am not taking any vaccines because they are not animal tested, and it is not proven safe. You are no more than a guinea pig for the US government. I worked for the US government as an engineer for 30 years. Please do the work and research yourself before you rush to get these injections. I do not want to hear of people in our Villages community passing away from something that could have been avoided.

First of all....Dr. Mercola is a quack so I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Fact-check: No link between COVID-19 vaccines and those who die after receiving them - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/post-vaccination-deaths-dont-covid-19-vaccine-deadly/story?id=75524209)

[PugMom]

It's one way to go. IMHO it's more fascist than democratic, but it's a new world.
PS: there is no immunization for malaria, you have to take chloroquine prophylactically for 2 weeks prior to departure and 4 weeks after return. (Or an alternative drug if travelling to a chloroquine resistant area)

:bigbow: welcome to Big Brother

[Annie66]

500 people in the United States have died so far after taking covid vaccines. See children's defense health fund vaccine site Robert Kennedy who is against pushing vaccines that are not needed. This information was posted on the Lew Rockwell website. For more information about vaccines see Dr Mercola website. The mainstream media is saying the people that died was from some other cause. Hank Aaron got the vaccines and then he was dead. His health was good. The same with the Miami Doctor. I am the same age at 56. There is no doubt the vaccine killed him. But it is your choice to take that chance, you cannot sue the vaccine makers if you get injured or your loved ones cant sue if you die.

The latest news is also that a woman in Virginia 58 years old and a man in California who was pro-vaccine and excited to take them have died yesterday after receiving the first dose of covid vaccines.

Please be careful Dr Mercola said these vaccines comprise PEG (polyethylene glycol) nanoparticles (particles the size of 10-9 meters smaller than colloidal at 10-6 meters) that cause allergic reaction and anaphlactic shock and death. The smaller the particle size the greater the reactivity so the PEG nanoparticles react quickly. Yes, PEG the same ingredient in antifreeze is in your vaccine despite the loud denials of the people distributing it. Do not risk death and take this vaccine, it does not stop covid.
I am 56 years old and have a masters in engineering from GWU and did the research and am not taking any vaccines because they are not animal tested, and it is not proven safe. You are no more than a guinea pig for the US government. I worked for the US government as an engineer for 30 years. Please do the work and research yourself before you rush to get these injections. I do not want to hear of people in our Villages community passing away from something that could have been avoided.

I read and re-read your post. It seems that your medical degree is a bit lacking. I will not deny the fact that a few people have adverse reactions to the vaccine, with a few leading to death. The numbers are small compared to the overall good for our community of taking the vaccine. I suspect the odds of an adverse reaction are less than the odds of dying in an automobile accident. If you don't wish to get the vaccine, don't. Just don't spout what you define as certitude when your science is lacking and evidence is thin.

[Scott O]

First of all....Dr. Mercola is a quack so I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Fact-check: No link between COVID-19 vaccines and those who die after receiving them - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/post-vaccination-deaths-dont-covid-19-vaccine-deadly/story?id=75524209)
He’s no more of a quack than Fauci or saying the NYT, or ABC News is good unbiased journalism....it’s called your subjective opinion and you seem to believe no one is allowed to one but yours...the 2 examples of journalism and I use that loosely, also told us our President was involved in Russian collusion for years as well....

[Scott O]

I read and re-read your post. It seems that your medical degree is a bit lacking. I will not deny the fact that a few people have adverse reactions to the vaccine, with a few leading to death. The numbers are small compared to the overall good for our community of taking the vaccine. I suspect the odds of an adverse reaction are less than the odds of dying in an automobile accident. If you don't wish to get the vaccine, don't. Just don't spout what you define as certitude when your science is lacking and evidence is thin.
People just love that “science is lacking, or follow the science term” don’t they...suddenly everyone is an expert....How about following some common sense, like just seeing there is many people who have had adverse reactions and yes there is people who have died after getting the vaccines, you can candy coat their science now too...it’s manipulated for each audience and you hear what you want to...

[Scott O]

This is a great article about what is in our future for proof of vaccination and/or negative test for Covid......

Coming Soon: The ‘Vaccine Passport’ - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html)
The weekly/monthly obsession continues, we started with quarantine, spend your days scrubbing your hands and home. We have to stay away from your family and friends and lock yourself up!! People tattling like children on others, then we have been beaten to death with the mask arguments over and over for months on end, mask shaming stories, one after another, restaurants, businesses shamelessly scolded for one person’s opinion of how they should be run during Covid because everyone was now an expert. Then on to “ where is my Covid vaccine” impatient angry people arguing over how and where they are giving it. So now fast forward almost a year we now have the “get your Covid vaccine or should not have any rights” from this point on in your life because of the I’m scared crowd. While the majority of us have just used common sense and went about our lives the entire time. Working, recreation and eating out and have done just fine, making a choice from living our lives locked up in fear or loosing precious time of our lives enjoying it. As I’ve said all along, if your afraid stay home, your entitled just as I’m entitled to go on with my life, my freedom.

[Eg_cruz]

So, where is our "vaccine passport" for tuberculosis, dengue, rubella, poliomyelitis, trypanosomiasis, and visceral larva migrans????? I thought so. Just another example of how a minor player in the world of infectious disease has blossomed into a full blown phobia. .....and don't forget your mask:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
People need to get over this vaccine being the end all do all.....

[Girlcopper]

Already exists. If you travel to Many places in S. America and most places in Africa you have to have a Yellow Fever vaccination. I am sure other vaccines are required for many places.
Yes and everyone should be happy to get the vaccines before going to certain countries. I dont believe people are against the vaccine. What they push back on is being told what to do. How many have you heard prancing around saying, “violating my rights”. Like children are told what to do for their own safety, many oldsters have to be told too since they seem to have no common sense

[Fourpar]

Years ago, you used to carry a "Yellow Card" or "International Certificates of Vaccination" in addition to a Passport. And if you didn't, you were refused entry until you could prove you had current vaccinations.
The form is still available from US Dept of Health, Education and Welfare......It is Form PHS-731. Perhaps it'll make a comeback.

[merrymini]

Most of what I read about the vaccine seems to be quacky, in both directions. I would look at the facts once I can determine which facts are true!

[notme6w]

This is a great article about what is in our future for proof of vaccination and/or negative test for Covid......

Coming Soon: The ‘Vaccine Passport’ - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html)

In the future all they will need to do is to read the chip they injected into your body

[Byte1]

Stupid idea

[karostay]

What about next year going to have repeat this all over again or it it one and done ?

[DIver0258]

I do love good sarcasm, but some people actually might think you are serious when you posted this. There is no effective vaccine for TB, While there is a vaccine for Dengue it is of low benefit and those who receive it are prone to severe dengue if they are infected. Rubella is a trivial illness other than its teratogenic risk. Polio is under excellent control internationally with vaccination being the major reason for its near elimination.
There is no vaccine for trypanosomiasis nor larva migrans. On the other hand, Covid in 2020 is the world's 6th leading cause of death (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/12/11/945171603/global-causes-of-death-significant-shifts-from-2000-to-2019) and would certainly be higher if there hadn't been a vigorous effort to try to contain its spread.

For historical perspective, the worst year in the US for deaths from polio was 1952 when 3145 people died. In Florida alone we have now had over 27,000 deaths from Covid. There have been many single days where the deaths from Covid in the US have been greater than the deaths in the entire year from Polio in its worst year.

To trivialize Covid as just another illness ignores all the science, epidemiology, and over 400,000 dead Americans. We have lost more Americans in one year to Covid than the total deaths of Americans in WW 2. Nobody seems to think those deaths were trivial or should be mocked. More Americans died from Covid in December than during the entire Vietnam war.

Some people don't find a disease that is the 6th leading cause of death, the leading infectious disease cause of death in the world in 2020, and one that kills more people than wars did to be "a minor player"

No doubt COVID has taken many lives globally. The total deaths from COVID listed globally are not accurate, The numbers here in the US are really skewed. Some areas under reporting and others reporting deaths as COVID that had nothing to do with the virus.

The main reason for lack of respect for COVID by our population, it has become a governmental circus. Tons of misinformation in main stream media. Younger generation feels invincible, some older folks are over the top. The mask debate has been swaying 180 degrees from our top virologist. The population gets tired of the rhetoric and looses focus. My 2 cents....

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

500 people in the United States have died so far after taking covid vaccines. See children's defense health fund vaccine site Robert Kennedy who is against pushing vaccines that are not needed. This information was posted on the Lew Rockwell website. For more information about vaccines see Dr Mercola website. The mainstream media is saying the people that died was from some other cause. Hank Aaron got the vaccines and then he was dead. His health was good. The same with the Miami Doctor. I am the same age at 56. There is no doubt the vaccine killed him. But it is your choice to take that chance, you cannot sue the vaccine makers if you get injured or your loved ones cant sue if you die.

The latest news is also that a woman in Virginia 58 years old and a man in California who was pro-vaccine and excited to take them have died yesterday after receiving the first dose of covid vaccines.

Please be careful Dr Mercola said these vaccines comprise PEG (polyethylene glycol) nanoparticles (particles the size of 10-9 meters smaller than colloidal at 10-6 meters) that cause allergic reaction and anaphlactic shock and death. The smaller the particle size the greater the reactivity so the PEG nanoparticles react quickly. Yes, PEG the same ingredient in antifreeze is in your vaccine despite the loud denials of the people distributing it. Do not risk death and take this vaccine, it does not stop covid.
I am 56 years old and have a masters in engineering from GWU and did the research and am not taking any vaccines because they are not animal tested, and it is not proven safe. You are no more than a guinea pig for the US government. I worked for the US government as an engineer for 30 years. Please do the work and research yourself before you rush to get these injections. I do not want to hear of people in our Villages community passing away from something that could have been avoided.

1. Polyethylene glycol is primarily a stool softener, one of the main ingredients in Miralax. It is NOT an anti-freeze. You're confusing it with propylene glycol, or perhaps with ethylene glycol. They sound similar but have different molecular structures.

2. Polyethylene glycol absolutely can cause anaphylaxis, this is already known. It can cause it in people who are allergic to it. If you are allergic to PEG, you should either not get vaccinated, or you should get vaccinated in a hospital setting where they can monitor you for the first half hour and make sure you don't have that reaction (or treat you if you do).

3. 500 people haven't died from vaccines. There are NO reports of death as a direct result of the vaccine. There are reports of a handful (not 500) of people who have had the vaccine... and subsequently died. But there has been no actual link made to those vaccines and the deaths at this point. One is still under investigation.

4. Mercola? Seriously? That's like asking Ed Anger of Weekly World News, circa 1980's how to handle a woman. Hint: it's fiction. Mercola is a medical conspiracy website that makes its money selling overpriced sawdust to gullible people and calling it supplements.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In the future all they will need to do is to read the chip they injected into your body

That means one less card I have to carry in my purse or worry about losing. If they learn how to successfully chip all my cards and keys, I'll be one darned happy camper. With a lighter purse. Or maybe no purse at all. No more purses that can be stolen or pickpocketed! No more mens' trousers wearing out at the back or front pocket.

ALL that information is stuff you carry on you anyway - and it can easily be stolen by someone with agile fingers. At least if you're chipped - some random Joe can't take it from you.

Maybe put the chip on the inside of the elbow - not likely anyone with a scanner will be able to scan that without being noticed!

I'm all for it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes and everyone should be happy to get the vaccines before going to certain countries. I dont believe people are against the vaccine. What they push back on is being told what to do. How many have you heard prancing around saying, “violating my rights”. Like children are told what to do for their own safety, many oldsters have to be told too since they seem to have no common sense

But this isn't about your rights. You don't have a "right" to a passport. There's nothing in the US Constitution allowing you the "right" to a passport. There's nothing in the Constitution offering you a "right" to enter other countries with or without a passport, with or without proof of immunization.

Each country determines what is best for them. We don't always agree with what's best for them, but it's their country and they make the decisions. This isn't an empire. It's a country. We are not rulers of the entire planet. We govern our own piece of it.

If you want to go to THAT country, then you have to abide by THEIR rules. And if that country requires proof of immunization, don't you think it's a lot easier on YOU - if you have that proof built into your passport instead of having to carry around MORE paperwork every time you travel to THAT country?

[Scott O]

That means one less card I have to carry in my purse or worry about losing. If they learn how to successfully chip all my cards and keys, I'll be one darned happy camper. With a lighter purse. Or maybe no purse at all. No more purses that can be stolen or pickpocketed! No more mens' trousers wearing out at the back or front pocket.

ALL that information is stuff you carry on you anyway - and it can easily be stolen by someone with agile fingers. At least if you're chipped - some random Joe can't take it from you.

Maybe put the chip on the inside of the elbow - not likely anyone with a scanner will be able to scan that without being noticed!

I'm all for it.
Then you go for it, as for the rest of us...no, not ever...

[Bill14564]

...

3. 500 people haven't died from vaccines. There are NO reports of death as a direct result of the vaccine. There are reports of a handful (not 500) of people who have had the vaccine... and subsequently died. But there has been no actual link made to those vaccines and the deaths at this point. One is still under investigation.


I believe this is true but this seems inconsistent with the labeling of COVID deaths.

We have seen arguments where deaths from non-Covid causes were still considered Covid deaths because Covid likely contributed to the death - the person with the heart problem would be alive today were it not for the additional stress caused by Covid. Only a subset of the deaths were from Covid alone but all should be considered Covid deaths.

Now we see deaths that occur shortly after an injection but are being told that the measure is not coincidence or correlation but that it must be provable that the death was a directly result of the vaccination. To a dumb engineer like me, it seems the criteria has been changed to fit the desired narrative.

[Dreah]

Deniers only PROLONG the country opening back up like normal. Gee, thanks.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I believe this is true but this seems inconsistent with the labeling of COVID deaths.

We have seen arguments where deaths from non-Covid causes were still considered Covid deaths because Covid likely contributed to the death - the person with the heart problem would be alive today were it not for the additional stress caused by Covid. Only a subset of the deaths were from Covid alone but all should be considered Covid deaths.

Now we see deaths that occur shortly after an injection but are being told that the measure is not coincidence or correlation but that it must be provable that the death was a directly result of the vaccination. To a dumb engineer like me, it seems the criteria has been changed to fit the desired narrative.

So far, we DO have deaths from people positive for COVID-19 that are PROVEN to have been caused by COVID-19. There are also lots of people who died, who had COVID, but did not have COVID deaths. Such as some guy with no symptoms, who fell down the stairs and broke his neck. That doesn't get counted as a COVID death even if he had COVID.

We do NOT have deaths from people who were vaccinated that were PROVEN to have been caused by the vaccine.

I don't see any conflict here at all.

[Moderator]

Another thread that can't stay away from politics and personal attacks.

The next time we have to clean this thread up it will be closed.

Moderator

[Love2Swim]

I believe this is true but this seems inconsistent with the labeling of COVID deaths.

We have seen arguments where deaths from non-Covid causes were still considered Covid deaths because Covid likely contributed to the death - the person with the heart problem would be alive today were it not for the additional stress caused by Covid. Only a subset of the deaths were from Covid alone but all should be considered Covid deaths.

Now we see deaths that occur shortly after an injection but are being told that the measure is not coincidence or correlation but that it must be provable that the death was a directly result of the vaccination. To a dumb engineer like me, it seems the criteria has been changed to fit the desired narrative.

I would expect the stress from a severe case of Covid would more likely contribute to death in a heart patient, rather than getting a vaccine would.

[Love2Swim]

So far, we DO have deaths from people positive for COVID-19 that are PROVEN to have been caused by COVID-19. There are also lots of people who died, who had COVID, but did not have COVID deaths. Such as some guy with no symptoms, who fell down the stairs and broke his neck. That doesn't get counted as a COVID death even if he had COVID.

We do NOT have deaths from people who were vaccinated that were PROVEN to have been caused by the vaccine.

I don't see any conflict here at all.

:bigbow:

[NoMoSno]

But this isn't about your rights. You don't have a "right" to a passport. There's nothing in the US Constitution allowing you the "right" to a passport. There's nothing in the Constitution offering you a "right" to enter other countries with or without a passport, with or without proof of immunization.

Each country determines what is best for them. We don't always agree with what's best for them, but it's their country and they make the decisions. This isn't an empire. It's a country. We are not rulers of the entire planet. We govern our own piece of it.

If you want to go to THAT country, then you have to abide by THEIR rules. And if that country requires proof of immunization, don't you think it's a lot easier on YOU - if you have that proof built into your passport instead of having to carry around MORE paperwork every time you travel to THAT country?
I guess our country has decided it's best for us to let thousands to illegally cross our border daily. No passport, tests or vaccinations are necessary.

[Bill14564]

So far, we DO have deaths from people positive for COVID-19 that are PROVEN to have been caused by COVID-19. There are also lots of people who died, who had COVID, but did not have COVID deaths. Such as some guy with no symptoms, who fell down the stairs and broke his neck. That doesn't get counted as a COVID death even if he had COVID.

We do NOT have deaths from people who were vaccinated that were PROVEN to have been caused by the vaccine.

I don't see any conflict here at all.

And we never will have deaths that were PROVEN to have been caused by the vaccine.

To be clear, Covid is bad and the vaccine is good. Even if 500 deaths is believable then there have been 500 deaths associated with the vaccine but nearly 1,000 times more associated with the virus. I much prefer the odds with the vaccine.

We will never have deaths proven to be caused by the vaccine because it is important that the vaccine be seen as safe to be accepted by as many people as possible. There can be NO doubt about the vaccine, it MUST be safe, no questions asked. Any death, no matter how closely associated with the vaccine, will be determined to have been caused by some underlying condition. A vaccination may have occurred immediately before the death, but the cause of death will be the underlying condition. There can be NO doubt about the vaccine, it MUST be safe.

(Similarly, if the virus can be associated with a death then the death will be caused by the virus. It is important that the virus be seen as a public health emergency. There can be NO doubt that the virus is killing people. And honestly, 450,000+ excess deaths is pretty good evidence that it is)

[Bill14564]

I would expect the stress from a severe case of Covid would more likely contribute to death in a heart patient, rather than getting a vaccine would.

I have had reactions to the shingles vaccine, the tetanus vaccine, and the flu vaccine. Certainly nothing that came close to being serious but reactions nonetheless. We are hearing reports of moderate reactions to the Covid vaccine that have symptoms similar to the flu. This is certainly not a surprise, we were told this from the start. But if you take a frail individual who gets an annual flu shot because contracting the flu would be risky for them and then you induce the flu symptoms, is it unreasonable to think that the reaction to the vaccine might adversely affect their health?

[coffeebean]

He’s no more of a quack than Fauci or saying the NYT, or ABC News is good unbiased journalism....it’s called your subjective opinion and you seem to believe no one is allowed to one but yours...the 2 examples of journalism and I use that loosely, also told us our President was involved in Russian collusion for years as well....

Dr. Mercola: Visionary or Quack? – Chicago Magazine (https://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/February-2012/Dr-Joseph-Mercola-Visionary-or-Quack/)

My vote: QUACK with a capital Q

[G.R.I.T.S.]

So, where is our "vaccine passport" for tuberculosis, dengue, rubella, poliomyelitis, trypanosomiasis, and visceral larva migrans????? I thought so. Just another example of how a minor player in the world of infectious disease has blossomed into a full blown phobia. .....and don't forget your mask:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

...or just stamp 666 on our foreheads...

[Tankerrich]

I’m not sure if the yellow fever vaccine is required by the country your visiting or required by the US in order to get back in.

Try going into Peru or many far east countries and Africa. As a flight crew member, I had a person who did not have it in his yellow vaccination card. He was taken and given the yellow fever shot before being let into the country. The company reimbursed him after he got back home. No one ever checks anything coming back into the US. Even during SARS, we had at least temps check going into many countries. Back into the US - NOTHING. Hope that changes now.

[Trishakaye]

So, where is our "vaccine passport" for tuberculosis, dengue, rubella, poliomyelitis, trypanosomiasis, and visceral larva migrans????? I thought so. Just another example of how a minor player in the world of infectious disease has blossomed into a full blown phobia. .....and don't forget your mask:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Research how many died from TB in 2020. A real eye-opener

[graciegirl]

500 people in the United States have died so far after taking covid vaccines. See children's defense health fund vaccine site Robert Kennedy who is against pushing vaccines that are not needed. This information was posted on the Lew Rockwell website. For more information about vaccines see Dr Mercola website. The mainstream media is saying the people that died was from some other cause. Hank Aaron got the vaccines and then he was dead. His health was good. The same with the Miami Doctor. I am the same age at 56. There is no doubt the vaccine killed him. But it is your choice to take that chance, you cannot sue the vaccine makers if you get injured or your loved ones cant sue if you die.

The latest news is also that a woman in Virginia 58 years old and a man in California who was pro-vaccine and excited to take them have died yesterday after receiving the first dose of covid vaccines.

Please be careful Dr Mercola said these vaccines comprise PEG (polyethylene glycol) nanoparticles (particles the size of 10-9 meters smaller than colloidal at 10-6 meters) that cause allergic reaction and anaphlactic shock and death. The smaller the particle size the greater the reactivity so the PEG nanoparticles react quickly. Yes, PEG the same ingredient in antifreeze is in your vaccine despite the loud denials of the people distributing it. Do not risk death and take this vaccine, it does not stop covid.
I am 56 years old and have a masters in engineering from GWU and did the research and am not taking any vaccines because they are not animal tested, and it is not proven safe. You are no more than a guinea pig for the US government. I worked for the US government as an engineer for 30 years. Please do the work and research yourself before you rush to get these injections. I do not want to hear of people in our Villages community passing away from something that could have been avoided.

There are many who will agree that any mention of Dr. Mercola will result in at least raised eyebrows. In my opinion he is a quack. I am not a medical person, just an intensely interested person who had had to learn a lot of stuff to protect our daughter born with a number of congenital issues. The one thing I learned above all else is respect for the traditional medical community, which is not always in agreement but their knowledge is accepted and valued everywhere in the world. I do not have much trust in alternative medicine at all and none in Dr. Mercola.

I don't want anyone dying either from something that could be avoided. I have great confidence in the Pfizer Vaccine, and in Moderna and hope to see Johnson and Johnson be accepted as a good one too. I am so grateful for modern science, the CDC, Dr. Fauci, the NIH, the FDA and I voted for the guy who didn't. He was wrong. Sometimes people are wrong. The Vaccine is the right thing to do.

[Cobullymom]

I believe this is true but this seems inconsistent with the labeling of COVID deaths.

We have seen arguments where deaths from non-Covid causes were still considered Covid deaths because Covid likely contributed to the death - the person with the heart problem would be alive today were it not for the additional stress caused by Covid. Only a subset of the deaths were from Covid alone but all should be considered Covid deaths.

Now we see deaths that occur shortly after an injection but are being told that the measure is not coincidence or correlation but that it must be provable that the death was a directly result of the vaccination. To a dumb engineer like me, it seems the criteria has been changed to fit the desired narrative.
Agreed! They change it daily to suit, there has been no consistency on anything being reported from mainstream media clown circus...

[Byte1]

There are many who will agree that any mention of Dr. Mercola will result in at least raised eyebrows. In my opinion he is a quack. I am not a medical person, just an intensely interested person who had had to learn a lot of stuff to protect our daughter born with a number of congenital issues. The one thing I learned above all else is respect for the traditional medical community, which is not always in agreement but their knowledge is accepted and valued everywhere in the world. I do not have much trust in alternative medicine at all and none in Dr. Mercola.

I don't want anyone dying either from something that could be avoided. I have great confidence in the Pfizer Vaccine, and in Moderna and hope to see Johnson and Johnson be accepted as a good one too. I am so grateful for modern science, the CDC, Dr. Fauci, the NIH, the FDA and I voted for the guy who didn't. He was wrong. Sometimes people are wrong. The Vaccine is the right thing to do.

Ewwww, J&J? Did you know that they made that from monkey poop? They infected a monkey with COVID and then used his poop to make the vaccine...............:1rotfl:

[Jerseygirl08]

But also let's remember that many people who "have died from Covid", had very compromised immune systems, were elderly, did not go for treatment soon enough because, no fault of their own, they thought it was just a cold and waited it out. I have heard many times (can't verify or fact check this) that hospitals attribute any deaths in persons diagnosed with Covid as a COVID DEATH. Yet we know that many people can have a positive Covid test without any symptoms at all. It has been beneficial to many in this country to UP the number of Covid deaths. I'm just not sure all the figures are correct at all. So I look at these numbers with trepidation. Just sayin'!!!