Developer Asking For Approval To Add Apartments In Spanish Springs City Center

[Ramone]

The Lady Lake Commissioners will discuss on Wed, Feb 17th, 6 pm, at the Town of Lady Lake Town Hall. The readings were tabled from Nov and Jan meetings. Those with concerns about this added population to the city center should contact the Lady Lake Commissioners and town hall and/or attend the meeting and speak up. Hundreds more people added to city center may cause overcrowding, more need for EMT's and police, and for those with PTSD more problems or outburst. Also what happens when those apartment tenants start complaining about the bands playing, do we stop the music?
Developer just give us back our Katie Belles!

[tghoul]

I am surprised they are going forward with more apartments. The Lofts starting pre leasing in February last year and as of 2 weeks ago I heard only about 35% of the apartments are leased.

[dewilson58]

I heard only about 35% of the apartments are leased.
Good Rumor.


:ohdear:

[Happydaz]

Good Rumor.


:ohdear:

A rumor in The Villages is often a fact that frequent posters deny. Why the constant denials? I once posted in 2015 that The Villages had bought land south of SR 44 and was planning to build homes down there ( Post titled “South of 44.”) Frequent posters laughed at my post as a rumor. Do you think maybe these people could be professional posters?

[Toymeister]

Good Rumor.


:ohdear:

Drive by and see how many cars are parked there.

Deny if you want.

[stanley]

Hundreds more people added to city center may cause overcrowding,

"Hundreds" more?

[JP]

I don't think apartments are a bad idea. The Villages keeps up their properties nicely and if there is no further demand for any other uses, what's the problem?

[CWGUY]

The Lady Lake Commissioners will discuss on Wed, Feb 17th, 6 pm, at the Town of Lady Lake Town Hall. The readings were tabled from Nov and Jan meetings. Those with concerns about this added population to the city center should contact the Lady Lake Commissioners and town hall and/or attend the meeting and speak up. Hundreds more people added to city center may cause overcrowding, more need for EMT's and police, and for those with PTSD more problems or outburst. Also what happens when those apartment tenants start complaining about the bands playing, do we stop the music?
Developer just give us back our Katie Belles!

:boom: Actually it was their Katie Belles! :icon_wink:

[Goldwingnut]

:boom: Actually it was their Katie Belles! :icon_wink:

Their "Katie Belles" that was losing money every month. They couldn't make money on air conditioning, ice water, and free entertainment. Like any business, they had to stop the bleeding. A good thing was lost as a result of many self-indulgent individuals who thought they had the right to occupy a business and not support it through their patronage.

It was a business that failed. Now the owners want to replace it with apartments and add additional apartments to other unused 2nd story properties, all totaled perhaps 20-25 apartments. Hardly a crowd of hundreds. Parking won't be an issue, KB needed over 180 spaces, unless the apartment dwellers each have 8 cars, things should be OK in this department.

[Kenswing]

Their "Katie Belles" that was losing money every month. They couldn't make money on air conditioning, ice water, and free entertainment. Like any business, they had to stop the bleeding. A good thing was lost as a result of many self-indulgent individuals who thought they had the right to occupy a business and not support it through their patronage.

It was a business that failed. Now the owners want to replace it with apartments and add additional apartments to other unused 2nd story properties, all totaled perhaps 20-25 apartments. Hardly a crowd of hundreds. Parking won't be an issue, KB needed over 180 spaces, unless the apartment dwellers each have 8 cars, things should be OK in this department.
Perspective.. What a wonderful thing.

[Bucco]

Perspective.. What a wonderful thing.

YES...

Perspective and context are essential to any discussion.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

YES...

Perspective and context are essential to any discussion. for about at the most twenty apartments half of them probably single person please take a breath people and only Covid or nuclear attack can stop the music and if Katie belles every opens again I’ll buy the first round of water with lemon

[John41]

Their "Katie Belles" that was losing money every month. They couldn't make money on air conditioning, ice water, and free entertainment. Like any business, they had to stop the bleeding. A good thing was lost as a result of many self-indulgent individuals who thought they had the right to occupy a business and not support it through their patronage.

It was a business that failed. Now the owners want to replace it with apartments and add additional apartments to other unused 2nd story properties, all totaled perhaps 20-25 apartments. Hardly a crowd of hundreds. Parking won't be an issue, KB needed over 180 spaces, unless the apartment dwellers each have 8 cars, things should be OK in this department.

Fake news. All business on second story were leased as developer confessed at prior meeting. Katie Belles failed after developer remodeled it.

[vintageogauge]

If I lived up there I would be more concerned about all of the apartments going up on the outskirts of TV, that is where the crowds will be coming from. The tenants in these new sections will most likely be full time not snow birds and that will be great for businesses within TV but there will be crowds. Samething is going on near brownwood..

[Bogie Shooter]

Fake news. All business on second story were leased as developer confessed at prior meeting. Katie Belles failed after developer remodeled it.

:boom: So there!

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Yes something is going on some say progress ( that’s me and I’ve been here for 20 years all over the villages) and others see the sky is falling, the sky is falling , progress or chicken little ?? At 82 I’ll always take progress

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Their "Katie Belles" that was losing money every month. They couldn't make money on air conditioning, ice water, and free entertainment. Like any business, they had to stop the bleeding. A good thing was lost as a result of many self-indulgent individuals who thought they had the right to occupy a business and not support it through their patronage.

It was a business that failed. Now the owners want to replace it with apartments and add additional apartments to other unused 2nd story properties, all totaled perhaps 20-25 apartments. Hardly a crowd of hundreds. Parking won't be an issue, KB needed over 180 spaces, unless the apartment dwellers each have 8 cars, things should be OK in this department.

As I mentioned previously, I'm more concerned about accommodation for golf carts owned by these apartment residents.

Will there be a long secure golf cart garage for them? Somewhere close enough to the back entry of the stairs, so they can bring groceries inside? If there is, that means it would also be a building in close proximity to public access from the parking lots. This would need to be addressed, because apartments or not, it is still a place where the public is welcome, and those parking spaces are needed for all visitors.

I wouldn't have any problem with apartment residents in the squares at all, otherwise. Bedrooms can be built to face the parking lot, so live music would be no bother to them at all.

[laboutj]

As I mentioned previously, I'm more concerned about accommodation for golf carts owned by these apartment residents.

Will there be a long secure golf cart garage for them? Somewhere close enough to the back entry of the stairs, so they can bring groceries inside? If there is, that means it would also be a building in close proximity to public access from the parking lots. This would need to be addressed, because apartments or not, it is still a place where the public is welcome, and those parking spaces are needed for all visitors.

I wouldn't have any problem with apartment residents in the squares at all, otherwise. Bedrooms can be built to face the parking lot, so live music would be no bother to them at all.

Is there parking for golf carts at the apartments at Brownwood? Not being sarcastic, just wondering. I haven't driven up close.

[Dan9871]

Is there parking for golf carts at the apartments at Brownwood? Not being sarcastic, just wondering. I haven't driven up close.

Yes, but it is an extra add-on to the lease.

[Bogie Shooter]

Many Villagers worry too much, about things they cannot control........

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Is there parking for golf carts at the apartments at Brownwood? Not being sarcastic, just wondering. I haven't driven up close.

I don't know, and it isn't relevant. The apartments at Brownwood were built from the ground up, and aren't "in" the actual town square.

The apartment at Spanish Springs would be on top of existing commercial property in the middle of the town square, with public parking in the back of the buildings. There is no place to build a new parking lot just for the apartments, so that means spaces that were used by employees of the businesses and customers of those businesses, will need to find someplace else to park.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Many Villagers worry too much, about things they cannot control........

This is true. What is also true, is that residents have a say in the matter, which is why they have public meetings and hearings and discussions. Anyone who wants to contribute to the discussion should be ENcouraged to do so, not DIScouraged by dismissal of their opinion.

[Topspinmo]

The Lady Lake Commissioners will discuss on Wed, Feb 17th, 6 pm, at the Town of Lady Lake Town Hall. The readings were tabled from Nov and Jan meetings. Those with concerns about this added population to the city center should contact the Lady Lake Commissioners and town hall and/or attend the meeting and speak up. Hundreds more people added to city center may cause overcrowding, more need for EMT's and police, and for those with PTSD more problems or outburst. Also what happens when those apartment tenants start complaining about the bands playing, do we stop the music?
Developer just give us back our Katie Belles!

IMO I don’t have problems with developers redoing building they own and already built. If they are empty it’s none of my business what developers Does with it.

IMO what I do have problem with when developers tear down buildings and put 100s of apartments in district they sold the amenities to district and the area was already built out years ago. Now developers are over crowding an over crowded area. IMO fighting the wrong battle around square.

IMO the developers can do what they want in the new built areas, but should be rained In when they try to over develop districts they long ago sold amenities to districts 1 through 13 And built out residentially.

Notice I said MY OPINION.:boxing2:

[JoMar]

IMO I don’t have problems with developers redoing building they own and already built. If they are empty it’s none of my business what developers Does with it.

IMO what I do have problem with when developers tear down buildings and put 100s of apartments in district they sold the amenities to district and the area was already built out years ago. Now developers are over crowding an over crowded area. IMO fighting the wrong battle around square.

IMO the developers can do what they want in the new built areas, but should be rained In when they try to over develop districts they long ago sold amenities to districts 1 through 13 And built out residentially.

Notice I said MY OPINION.:boxing2:

I really don't have any dog in this fight but I agree that the Developer owns the buildings and can do with them what he wants. The golf cart and parking issues are so overblown...I have never had a problem parking in Spanish Springs with either the car or cart....I suspect the complaint is the closeness to destination that most object to. The more population you can bring downtown the more businesses will benefit and if you notice, none of them have objected to what the Developer is planning. The more business sees benefit, the more the residents will benefit. While I also believe the other planned apartments will also be beneficial to the community, because of its location I will let the residents choose their fate on that one.

[Joe V.]

Many Villagers worry too much, about things they cannot control........

Or want to control themselves.

[Mleeja]

I am continually amazed by posters blaming “the developer” for the failure of Katie Belle’s. The original and remodeled versions failed because people did not support it.

As far as for the apartments, I think they will appeal to a certain clientele. They are saying 45 apartments in total. That would be less than 100 additional folks at the square IF they came out every night. Apartments will require some reconfiguration of the buildings, but when complete will be unnoticed by the general public visiting the square.

[tophcfa]

Focus on the much bigger problem, it’s the multi story rental apartment complex monstrosity planned to go where the Hacienda Hills Club House, pool and tennis courts used to exist. The apartments planned for Spanish Springs pale in comparison and will hardly be noticeable.

[John41]

I am continually amazed by posters blaming “the developer” for the failure of Katie Belle’s. The original and remodeled versions failed because people did not support it.

As far as for the apartments, I think they will appeal to a certain clientele. They are saying 45 apartments in total. That would be less than 100 additional folks at the square IF they came out every night. Apartments will require some reconfiguration of the buildings, but when complete will be unnoticed by the general public visiting the square.

They said building would stop at RT 44 too.

[graciegirl]

The Lady Lake Commissioners will discuss on Wed, Feb 17th, 6 pm, at the Town of Lady Lake Town Hall. The readings were tabled from Nov and Jan meetings. Those with concerns about this added population to the city center should contact the Lady Lake Commissioners and town hall and/or attend the meeting and speak up. Hundreds more people added to city center may cause overcrowding, more need for EMT's and police, and for those with PTSD more problems or outburst. Also what happens when those apartment tenants start complaining about the bands playing, do we stop the music?
Developer just give us back our Katie Belles!


I do not miss Katie Belle's or the Buffalo and I think the apartments will be no different than the homes abutting Lake Sumter Landing Market Square, as far as the music goes. Some folks are always trying to find a fly in the ointment.

[Topspinmo]

Focus on the much bigger problem, it’s the multi story rental apartment complex monstrosity planned to go where the Hacienda Hills Club House, pool and tennis courts used to exist. The apartments planned for Spanish Springs pale in comparison and will hardly be noticeable.

Bingo :clap2 that the battle not SS building’s.

[tghoul]

Good Rumor.


:ohdear:

86 leases out of 265 apartments

[Mleeja]

86 leases out of 265 apartments

Care to share your source?

[Happydaz]

Care to share your source?

It’s a fact. You wonder why they are building so many more apartments when these apartments aren’t popular with the consumer. What could be the reason? Could it be that you can buy a nice, low priced patio villa and have your car parked in your own garage right next to your own house and be able to bring your groceries in without getting wet or walking a long distance? Maybe older people would rather move from their house and then buy into assisted living and not burn through their equity with monthly rent?

[tghoul]

Care to share your source?

Sales person

[vintageogauge]

Yes, but it is an extra add-on to the lease.

Only garages are extra add-ons.

[vintageogauge]

86 leases out of 265 apartments

That's not bad, about 1/3 of them leased in a short period of time, they just recently completed the last phase. If they didn't feel these were a sound business decision they would not go forward with them. Build them and they will come. Right around the corner on 44A there are several hundred more apartments along with condos and single family homes being built that are not part of TV but will be very near to the square and will help the restaurants and businesses in the Brownwood area.

[Dan9871]

Only garages are extra add-ons.

From the Lofts website

Optional amenities based on availability:
Outdoor Car & Golf Car Parking*
Garage & Reserved Parking*
Additional Storage Options*

* Additional fee

View the cost of living at
The Lofts at Brownwood

[Happydaz]

That's not bad, about 1/3 of them leased in a short period of time, they just recently completed the last phase. If they didn't feel these were a sound business decision they would not go forward with them. Build them and they will come. Right around the corner on 44A there are several hundred more apartments along with condos and single family homes being built that are not part of TV but will be very near to the square and will help the restaurants and businesses in the Brownwood area.

Actually that is not good at all. 1/3 rented after a year? Yes, young people on the outskirts of The Villages like apartments because they haven’t saved enough for a down payment or they aren’t sure where they will live long term. The question is whether the type of people who like The Villages set up want to live in apartments in their senior years? Many Villagers are good middle class people who have amassed sizable nest eggs from saving their money and owning their own home. They are smart enough to know that $2500 a month rent works out to $30,000 a year. You can buy a home in the Villages for less than that. Plus you will see an equity increase in the value of your home. In just 5 years an apartment dweller will have paid $150,000 in rent and show no equity increase, just expenses. I wonder if there is a market for apartment renters in The Villagers. Would you rent one? Wealthy people on the coasts of Florida with high disposable income might be a better target audience rather than the average, middle American Villagers, in my opinion. We will know soon.

[Number 10 GI]

It’s a fact. You wonder why they are building so many more apartments when these apartments aren’t popular with the consumer. What could be the reason? Could it be that you can buy a nice, low priced patio villa and have your car parked in your own garage right next to your own house and be able to bring your groceries in without getting wet or walking a long distance? Maybe older people would rather move from their house and then buy into assisted living and not burn through their equity with monthly rent?

No one is forcing "older people" to rent/lease these apartments, so what is the problem? There are a whole lot of reasons some one would want to lease rather than purchase a home. Just because you don't want to means nothing to the individual that does. If the builder goofed and no one will rent the apartments what is the problem for the rest of us? There won't be any money out of our pockets. If they don't get leased out I would imagine they will be offered as condos.

[DaveGodin]

Their "Katie Belles" that was losing money every month. They couldn't make money on air conditioning, ice water, and free entertainment. Like any business, they had to stop the bleeding. A good thing was lost as a result of many self-indulgent individuals who thought they had the right to occupy a business and not support it through their patronage.

It was a business that failed. Now the owners want to replace it with apartments and add additional apartments to other unused 2nd story properties, all totaled perhaps 20-25 apartments. Hardly a crowd of hundreds. Parking won't be an issue, KB needed over 180 spaces, unless the apartment dwellers each have 8 cars, things should be OK in this department.
you are the first poster I've seen who purports to know the financial status of Katie Belles. What is the source of your information? Have you seen the books?

[DaveGodin]

I am interested in the occupancy rate for the lofts. what is it currently?

I understand that for some the lofts is not a good deal. However, my wife has stated that if I were to die she might be interested in a low maintenance option like an apartment. Personally I don't think the lofts are worth the cost, and I wonder how much interest there would be. We also have to think about the 286 unit apartment complex at Hacienda Hills. Why build it if it will sit unoccupied?

I really wonder how many people would even be interested in apartments at spanish springs. the apartments would be right on the square and would be subject to crowd and music noise nightly as well as traffic. the lofts at least have a buffer as they are off brownwood square.

[vintageogauge]

Actually that is not good at all. 1/3 rented after a year? Yes, young people on the outskirts of The Villages like apartments because they haven’t saved enough for a down payment or they aren’t sure where they will live long term. The question is whether the type of people who like The Villages set up want to live in apartments in their senior years? Many Villagers are good middle class people who have amassed sizable nest eggs from saving their money and owning their own home. They are smart enough to know that $2500 a month rent works out to $30,000 a year. You can buy a home in the Villages for less than that. Plus you will see an equity increase in the value of your home. In just 5 years an apartment dweller will have paid $150,000 in rent and show no equity increase, just expenses. I wonder if there is a market for apartment renters in The Villagers. Would you rent one? Wealthy people on the coasts of Florida with high disposable income might be a better target audience rather than the average, middle American Villagers, in my opinion. We will know soon.

Actually you have your facts wrong. The first units were occupied in July of 2020, not one year ago and it has only been a little over a month since the final phase was completed and ready for occupancy so the current 85 unit occupancy is not bad at all. I don't know how you are coming up with $2500/month rent when they advertise 1 bedrooms for as low as $1,350 and 2 bedrooms as low at $1,705 without a garage and many residents could care less about a garage or may not even have a car, very few people will need a 3 bedroom so there probably are very few of them available. There are plenty of people in this country that prefer to rent and can do the math, to them owning a house is a hassle and they would prefer the ease of renting without paying property taxes, bonds, maintenance, and repairs and in this case the ease of walking to entertainment, dining, and shopping. If these were not making money for TV they would discontinue their efforts to add more units within TV, they did not go into this blind, they know exactly what they are doing. You asked if I would rent one and the answer is no. I never lived in an apartment and hopefully never will and I'm sure a large percentage of the population would prefer not to rent but there exists a large group that either want the ease of renting or cannot afford the down payment on a home so they have no choice. I applaud the developers for making the decision to add apartment living to TV and see no harm to the community in doing so.

[Number 10 GI]

you are the first poster I've seen who purports to know the financial status of Katie Belles. What is the source of your information? Have you seen the books?

Have you seen the books? You don't really need to see a companies books to figure out why it failed. Usually it is poor business practices or a lack of sales. Maybe the ownership felt the business wasn't making enough profit to justify the hassle of running it. It isn't anyone else's business as to why it was closed. It is the developer's property, no one has the right to question the why of it.

[Number 10 GI]

Actually you have your facts wrong. The first units were occupied in July of 2020, not one year ago and it has only been a little over a month since the final phase was completed and ready for occupancy so the current 85 unit occupancy is not bad at all. I don't know how you are coming up with $2500/month rent when they advertise 1 bedrooms for as low as $1,350 and 2 bedrooms as low at $1,705 without a garage and many residents could care less about a garage or may not even have a car, very few people will need a 3 bedroom so there probably are very few of them available. There are plenty of people in this country that prefer to rent and can do the math, to them owning a house is a hassle and they would prefer the ease of renting without paying property taxes, bonds, maintenance, and repairs and in this case the ease of walking to entertainment, dining, and shopping. If these were not making money for TV they would discontinue their efforts to add more units within TV, they did not go into this blind, they know exactly what they are doing. You asked if I would rent one and the answer is no. I never lived in an apartment and hopefully never will and I'm sure a large percentage of the population would prefer not to rent but there exists a large group that either want the ease of renting or cannot afford the down payment on a home so they have no choice. I applaud the developers for making the decision to add apartment living to TV and see no harm to the community in doing so.

We've also been in a pandemic for the last year and I would have to think that has had an effect on the occupancy rate. I've know a number of people who rent rather than own for all the good reasons you cited. I prefer owning rather than rent but it may get to the point I don't want all the problems of having to make a bunch of calls to get things repaired. One call to the landlord is a lot easier.

[tghoul]

Actually you have your facts wrong. The first units were occupied in July of 2020, not one year ago and it has only been a little over a month since the final phase was completed and ready for occupancy so the current 85 unit occupancy is not bad at all. I don't know how you are coming up with $2500/month rent when they advertise 1 bedrooms for as low as $1,350 and 2 bedrooms as low at $1,705 without a garage and many residents could care less about a garage or may not even have a car, very few people will need a 3 bedroom so there probably are very few of them available. There are plenty of people in this country that prefer to rent and can do the math, to them owning a house is a hassle and they would prefer the ease of renting without paying property taxes, bonds, maintenance, and repairs and in this case the ease of walking to entertainment, dining, and shopping. If these were not making money for TV they would discontinue their efforts to add more units within TV, they did not go into this blind, they know exactly what they are doing. You asked if I would rent one and the answer is no. I never lived in an apartment and hopefully never will and I'm sure a large percentage of the population would prefer not to rent but there exists a large group that either want the ease of renting or cannot afford the down payment on a home so they have no choice. I applaud the developers for making the decision to add apartment living to TV and see no harm to the community in doing so.

The first occupants moved in in mid July 2020 but they started pre leasing in mid February 2020. They had roughly 20 pre leased before the July move in date. Of those 7 or 8 have already moved out.

[Bogie Shooter]

The first occupants moved in in mid July 2020 but they started pre leasing in mid February 2020. They had roughly 20 pre leased before the July move in date. Of those 7 or 8 have already moved out.

Are these figures guesses?

[Happydaz]

The first occupants moved in in mid July 2020 but they started pre leasing in mid February 2020. They had roughly 20 pre leased before the July move in date. Of those 7 or 8 have already moved out.

Yes they have been leasing these apartments for a year now. It has been reported that the rents have been reduced recently. Current renters will get the lower rent price when their leases expire.

[tghoul]

Are these figures guesses?

No, but the move outs may be higher, I haven't checked in a few weeks.

[Happydaz]

No, but the move outs may be higher, I haven't checked in a few weeks.

Frequent posters see rumors everywhere. They can’t recognize facts when they see them.

[kcrazorbackfan]

I can see it now - apartments get built overlooking the square where music is played every night and the occupants, knowing full well the music plays every night, starts to complain about the music; sort of like the people living next to the turnpike complaining about the turnpike noise that was there long before they moved in. :boom:

[Northwoods]

Their "Katie Belles" that was losing money every month. They couldn't make money on air conditioning, ice water, and free entertainment. Like any business, they had to stop the bleeding. A good thing was lost as a result of many self-indulgent individuals who thought they had the right to occupy a business and not support it through their patronage.

It was a business that failed. Now the owners want to replace it with apartments and add additional apartments to other unused 2nd story properties, all totaled perhaps 20-25 apartments. Hardly a crowd of hundreds. Parking won't be an issue, KB needed over 180 spaces, unless the apartment dwellers each have 8 cars, things should be OK in this department.

I 100% agree with you.

[John41]

Have you seen the books? You don't really need to see a companies books to figure out why it failed. Usually it is poor business practices or a lack of sales. Maybe the ownership felt the business wasn't making enough profit to justify the hassle of running it. It isn't anyone else's business as to why it was closed. It is the developer's property, no one has the right to question the why of it.

Actually it was part of the advertised “lifestyle” we paid extra for. So it is our business and Katie Belles failed because the developer remodeled it trying to squeeze every nickel out of it.

[Kerry Azz]

Yes and the minions ran it into the ground.

[Goldwingnut]

you are the first poster I've seen who purports to know the financial status of Katie Belles. What is the source of your information? Have you seen the books?

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

[Brwne]

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

The number one priority is to keep the Spanish Springs square open and vibrant - squares are an important component to the magic that is The Villages. That means the various commercial enterprises must have enough customers spending money to allow them to be profitable. The Developer is looking for ways to bring more spending into Spanish Springs and one of the ways to do that is to have a concentration of people actually living there. It was pointed out in a prior Forum post that the parking code requirements for apartments is less than for commercial space - less burden and more spending.

[John41]

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

You have a rather fatalistic attitude regarding KB and HH. Did you ever see the TV show Restaurant Impossible where a poorly run, money losing place is turned around with good management? Good management GWN, not blaming the customer. And there are many examples of good management affecting a turnaround but maybe the kids aren’t up to it or don’t want to be.

[rustyp]

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

Two points
1 - If the Developer could not make a profit in the restaurant business in their own buildings how is it others can. Surely their overhead is higher than the Developers.
2 - I frequented HH pool many times. Every single time I was checked for resident ID which reveals if you have a priority golf and / or pool pass. There was a couple tables immediately next to the bar that non members were allowed to sit but a non member could not use the pool.

By the look of the amount of responses to your "facts" this time they maybe perhaps shaded towards the hearsay side of the story. Not to say they are wrong but a stretch to call them facts.

[bagboy]

You have a rather fatalistic attitude regarding KB and HH. Did you ever see the TV show Restaurant Impossible where a poorly run, money losing place is turned around with good management? Good management GWN, not blaming the customer. And there are many examples of good management affecting a turnaround but maybe the kids aren’t up to it or don’t want to be.

Restaurant Impossible has/had a 75% Failure rate...

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

The only time back then when KB did well was when it was open to non residents , then people complained that it WAS OUR KB and they turned it into residents only and decline started , I stopped In there for a drink 4 or 5 times a week when I lived over there and watched the steady decline we have all heard or seen the water and ice tea group , but no one mentioned the little nips that you would see in the men’s room trash . the reinvention of the upstairs dining room reminded me the one time I went of one of those rubber chicken dinners we have all suffered through at one time or another. The famil would have loved to keep it going it was good for there business but how much do you want to loose I don’t think anything like KB would survive without non residents , I mean a lot of people think bonefish and bluefin are very expensive

[rustyp]

FYI for those who don't know yet Lady Lake voted down 3 to 2 permission for the Developer to make the upstairs spaces in Spanish Springs Square into 45 apartments. I think I seen Harold's statue do a little dance last night.

[Bogie Shooter]

Restaurant Impossible has/had a 75% Failure rate...

More facts, tsk, tsk,!

[Bogie Shooter]

FYI for those who don't know yet Lady Lake voted down 3 to 2 permission for the Developer to make the upstairs spaces in Spanish Springs Square into 45 apartments. I think I seen Harold's statue do a little dance last night.

Being the visionary man that he was , more likely tears of sadness.

[rustyp]

Being the visionary man that he was , more likely tears of sadness.


Harold was in it more from the social aspect. Harold lived here. He was a people and party person. It was his idea to build the first town square on the historic side by the post office. Before he built that first square he would walk around the neighborhood in Orange Blossom and ask where is the party this weekend ? If no one had volunteered he would have it at his house on the corner of Aloha Way and Tarrson Blvd (Al Tarrson was Harold's original partner). His son Gary Morse (at age 47) and family moved here to run the business. They were looking more towards the financial end. Harold donated a million dollars of his own money (not corporation) to build the Spanish Springs town square (the second town square). He named Katie Belle's after his mother. Harold said his mother would be proud to have a saloon named after her. No way if Harold was alive would he approve of closing Katie Belle's.