It has to be great to set your own rate

[Advogado]

IT HAS TO BE GREAT TO BE ABLE TO SET YOUR OWN TAX RATE

Background of the 25% Property Tax Hike. In case any readers still don't know about the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and our huge property-tax hike to preserve it, they can watch this video, recorded at the County Commissioner's hearing on September 24, 2019-- as the Developer's puppets on the Commission were about to hike our property tax 25% to preserve that sweetheart fee: Scott Fenstermaker--How can five guys screw 125000 people? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4)

As a result of that property-tax increase, we the voters of Sumter County, last year, woke up to what had been going on and tossed out the three Developer's puppet Commissioners (Butler, Burgess, and Printz) who were up for re-election, and we voted in the EMS team of Estep, Miller, and Search. We did so on the basis of a promise by Estep, Miller, and Search to roll back the property tax hike by requiring the Developer to pay for his own county infrastructure through a reasonable impact fee.

Now this tax-reform process is in doubt.

The Developer's Efforts to Keep His Sweetheart Impact Fee. This process is in doubt because the Developer is doing everything in his power to preserve his sweetheart impact fee. He is lobbying the County Commissioners, packing a Commission meeting with his contractors and allies, filling the meeting parking lot with his contractors' heavy equipment so there were no parking spaces for the public, and running a series of propaganda articles in his newspaper vilifying impact fees. His latest ploy is an attempt to “voluntarily” raise his sweetheart road impact fee by 40% in exchange for protection from imposition from any other impact-fee increases. Well, a 40% increase of his sweetheart road impact fee won't come close to covering the costs of all county infrastructure that the Developer should be paying for.

A Comparison of Impact Fees. It is interesting to compare the impact fees that the Developer would pay in Collier County (where his puppets do not set impact fees) with what he pays in Sumter County:
In Collier County, the builder of a retirement community would pay impact fees for:
>Community Parks,
>Regional Parks,
>Roads,
>EMS,
>Schools,
>Government Buildings,
>Libraries,
>Law Enforcement,
>Jail,
>Water,
>Sewer, and
>Fire.
The total of these impact fees in Collier County is approximately $24,000/house, the exact amount depending on where in the county it is built.

In Sumter County, the Developer pays an impact fee of only $972 for roads. (This is only 40% of what the impact-fee study calculated each of his houses is costing the county for new roads). THE DEVELOPER PAYS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR THE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE that Collier County collects for. Who pays for all the stuff that the Developer doesn't pay for? We, the residents (individuals and existing businesses), do. The Daily Sun articles claim that reasonable impact fees in Sumter County would “paralyze” growth here. Nonsense. The impact fees are 25 times higher in Collier County, and growth there has not been “paralyzed”. Reasonable impact fees allow lower property taxes and are good for the economy. For the truth about the economic benefit of paying for new infrastructure via impact fees, check out this report: Paying for Prosperity: Impact Fees and Job Growth (https://www.brookings.edu/research/paying-for-prosperity-impact-fees-and-job-growth/)

What Voters Can Do Now to Get Our Property Tax Rolled Back. If the EMS Team had stuck together and stuck to their promises, with 3 of the 5 Commissioners, the process would have started already. But, for some reason, Mr. Estep made a motion to delay even considering the necessary impact-fee increase for six months, and it was passed with the votes of Mr. Search and Developer puppet Breeden. After Mr. Estep was criticized by the public for his motion, Mr. Search came to his defense in the on-line news, calling voters who believed Mr. Estep's campaign promise of tax reform “ill-informed”. In light of the Developer's brazen proposal to set his own tax rate, it looks like the Developer thinks that he has flipped at least one member of the EMS Team and thus controls at least 3 of the 5 votes. Meantime, the six-month delay puts millions of dollars into the Developer's pocket, at our expense, as the Developer pays impact fees at the sweetheart rate and we subsidize him as our property tax accrues at its inflated rate.

Given the fact that the Developer feels confident enough about his influence over the County Commission to believe that he can set his own tax rate, what can we, the voters, do to successfully roll back the massive property-tax increase? I have to admit: I don't know.

The Sad Conclusion. The sad truth is that we won the battle by voting out the Developer's puppets (Butler, Burgess, and Printz). However, in light of the votes of Mr. Estep and Mr. Search, the Developer may have won the war. Probably all we can do is contact Messrs. Estep and Search and insist they keep their promise to us. We can also contact Mr. Miller and thank him for keeping his. Contact information is available here: About the Commissioners | Sumter County, FL - Official Website (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/67/About-the-Commissioners) Obviously, contacting Messrs. Gilpin or Breeden would be a waste of time. We have to vote them out next year.

[John41]

The developer puppets are posting on TOTV fake news that construction will halt if full impact fee is assessed. New commissioners will roll back the tax increase according to POA.

[Bogie Shooter]

.:popcorn:

[kappy]

The developer puppets are posting on TOTV fake news that construction will halt if full impact fee is assessed. New commissioners will roll back the tax increase according to POA.

The developer made a proposal to voluntarily increase just their impact fee about $400 which is to be discussed at the meeting tomorrow. They also asked for a four year freeze at that amount. Obviously the developer knows that they have been getting away with an extraordinarily low impact fee. The 2019 study on just the road costs for developing south of Rt. 44 called for a $2430 impact fee for The Villages. They have been paying $972 since 2019.

The three new Commissioners campaigned on a platform of rolling back the 25% tax increase we received in 2019 and increasing the impact fees to 100% instead of the current 40%, a 60% discount. They have been in office long enough to have done so. All Sumter County homeowners are paying the increased taxes EVERY year, while an impact fee is paid only ONCE. Send an email to the two new Commissioners who are not willing to keep their campaign pledge. Their email addresses are; craig.estep@sumtercountyfl.gov and gary.search@sumtercountyfl.gov.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The developer made a proposal to voluntarily increase just their impact fee about $400 which is to be discussed at the meeting tomorrow. They also asked for a four year freeze at that amount. Obviously the developer knows that they have been getting away with an extraordinarily low impact fee. The 2019 study on just the road costs for developing south of Rt. 44 called for a $2430 impact fee for The Villages. They have been paying $972 since 2019.

The three new Commissioners campaigned on a platform of rolling back the 25% tax increase we received in 2019 and increasing the impact fees to 100% instead of the current 40%, a 60% discount. They have been in office long enough to have done so. All Sumter County homeowners are paying the increased taxes EVERY year, while an impact fee is paid only ONCE. Send an email to the two new Commissioners who are not willing to keep their campaign pledge. Their email addresses are; craig.estep@sumtercountyfl.gov and gary.search@sumtercountyfl.gov.

This is why I think there should be a little give and take from both the developer and the homeowners.

Developers are offering to increase their impact fee almost 50% to just under $1500 per unit.

Homeowners could agree to that, and kick in a lower contribution of - instead of 25%, maybe 15% increase in the rate.

In this way, everyone pays a little more than they did previously, no one bears the entire burden, and the increases are manageable for almost everyone. And honestly - if a 15% increase from what you've been paying for the past 14 years is too much, then you are living above your means.

The only people I would feel badly for are people who moved in, within the last couple of years. They will only have enjoyed their current tax burden for a short period of time and then socked with the increase. People who've lived in the county for a decade or more have enjoyed a lower-than-necessary tax burden, and are now simply being asked to catch up.

[John41]

This is why I think there should be a little give and take from both the developer and the homeowners.

Developers are offering to increase their impact fee almost 50% to just under $1500 per unit.
p.

Did the developer offer give and take on house price or the bond? No!

[Arctic Fox]

I offered to pay 60% of the cost of my groceries at Winn-Dixie today and they refused to accept it.

What am I doing wrong?

[Mincey596]

Even though I come from the tax capital of the world, any developer that wants to build is asked to make upgrades to the area around them. One company restructured a whole intersection, a mere million dollars and it was a mile away from the 1 building being built by the developer.

I’m moving to Sumter County in 4 months and I’m worried about how things are done by the developer.

[birdiebill]

I suspect when the county budget was studied by the new commissioners, they realized they can not roll back the 25% property tax increase and increase the impact fees high enough to make up the difference. I read either on TOTV or the newspaper that the impact fee cannot be raised on just the developer of the over 55 retirement community. If raised on the developer of the Villages, it would also have to be raised on builders of all non-retirement community homes, retail and commercial buildings etc in the county. While I do not know if that is correct and while I have no idea of the multiple line items of the counties budget, I do not know what level of impact fee increase even makes sense. The developer is not asking for his impact fee to be increased, he is volunteering to pay 40% more so that the fee does not have to be increased on all other new construction also.

Second, you cannot compare Collier county with Sumter County. Collier is one of the wealthiest counties per capita while Sumter is a more rural county. Look at the difference in cost of living in Naples or Bonita Springs versus The Villages or Wildwood or Bushnell. I imagine there is a big difference between wealth per capita in Sumter versus Collier counties also.

Third the developer built the Charter school, which I believe is not supported by county taxes. His plans for the next 3 to 5 years include a new K-8 charter school and a new Charter High School in the southern area of development. The developer builds parks in his development in the form of rec centers, golf courses, hiking trails, pickle ball courts, pools, preserves, etc. So comparing to Collier county is more like comparing apples to oranges.

The bond we assume when we buy new construction pays for the cost of the sewers, water lines, roads, electricity lines, internet and cable lines, phone lines etc within the confines of his development.

[Bogie Shooter]

Even though I come from the tax capital of the world, any developer that wants to build is asked to make upgrades to the area around them. One company restructured a whole intersection, a mere million dollars and it was a mile away from the 1 building being built by the developer.

I’m moving to Sumter County in 4 months and I’m worried about how things are done by the developer.

....and the commissioners.

[Topspinmo]

Even though I come from the tax capital of the world, any developer that wants to build is asked to make upgrades to the area around them. One company restructured a whole intersection, a mere million dollars and it was a mile away from the 1 building being built by the developer.

I’m moving to Sumter County in 4 months and I’m worried about how things are done by the developer.

Coming from tax capital of the world (is that Illinois, California,or NYC?) taxes around here will be least of you’re worries?

[John41]

This is why I think there should be a little give and take from both the developer and the homeowners.

Developers are offering to increase their impact fee almost 50% to just under $1500 per unit.

Homeowners could agree to that, and kick in a lower contribution of - instead of 25%, maybe 15% increase in the rate.

In this way, everyone pays a little more than they did previously, no one bears the entire burden, and the increases are manageable for almost everyone. And honestly - if a 15% increase from what you've been paying for the past 14 years is too much, then you are living above your means.
.

Do you know the developer is a billionaire and many seniors here depend on SS. Talk about reverse Robin Hood steal from the poor to give to the rich. Nice.

[tophcfa]

Dam, can my pension and Social Security go up 25% and be subsidized by someone else? How nice would that be : )

[Bkosloski]

If the bond does not pay for infrastructure, what is it used for? Pure profit?

[birdiebill]

If the bond does not pay for infrastructure, what is it used for? Pure profit?
The bond pays for all the infrastructure WITHIN the development. It did not pay for improvements to existing county network roads such as Warm Springs Road, hwy 501, Meggison Road, whatever the county highway was numbered (462?) that was the extension of Morse Road south of 44, the repaving of Morse and Buena Vista between 44 and 466, etc

[dewilson58]

Conclusion. The sad truth is that we won the battle However, the Developer may have won the war.


:1rotfl:

[jbrown132]

The developer puppets are posting on TOTV fake news that construction will halt if full impact fee is assessed. New commissioners will roll back the tax increase according to POA.

That might be a good thing! Over development is just as bad or worse than under development. With the number of people in TV, businesses will still come. Maybe we don’t need another thirty thousand homes. This only benefits the developers.

[algi45]

You sound just like one of the developer's minions.

[stebooo]

This is so upsetting. Already sent my thoughts to esep we want to keep our taxes were they should be. No creep. I know your happy, but leave your complacency at the door.

[dtennent]

In the small rural upstate NY town in which I lived, I was involved with the Planning board and eventually became the head of the Town Board. I knew the budget inside out. With that experience, I am not surprised that a large tax increase came after years of no tax increases. I am aware that there has been incredible increase in the tax base. However, residential development has a large infrastructure upkeep in the long haul. Roads don't last forever. With more residents, there is an increase need in the sheriff department, the court system, health department and many other government services. I am sure that the new board members are on a steep learning curve about the budget, how the county government runs, etc. I applaud that they are taking 6 months to learn enough to make a sound decision regarding the impact fees as well as our tax rate. Hopefully, as they go through the process, they will help all of us learn some of the intricacies that impact their final decision.

[Vernon Hud]

Does anyone actually think the developer would actually volunteer to a tax increase if it didn't benefit the family. Why do you think they set up this Bond structure, because it helps them make it look like the homes are cheaper than what they really are. 99.9999 percent of developers buy property, they put in all the infrastructure, decide how many homes per acre, divide up the cost of the infrastructure by the amount of homes in the development, and add this cost to each home before they are put on the market. This way everyone pays the same for infrastructure, no messing around with bonds, which I believe the developer makes all the interest off these bonds, which is really high compared to other interest rates. Developer here in The Villages always wins.

[Worldseries27]

Everything is negotiation and compromise. Nothing new in that statement
however i find it very curious that when serious subject matter like this is discussed all the heavy hitters disappear.

[dewilson58]

i find it very curious that when serious subject matter like this is discussed all the heavy hitters disappear.
It's an old topic, a number of threads, beat to death by OP's with agenda's........maybe that is why some are sitting in the dugout.

[Bogie Shooter]

Does anyone actually think the developer would actually volunteer to a tax increase if it didn't benefit the family. Why do you think they set up this Bond structure, because it helps them make it look like the homes are cheaper than what they really are. 99.9999 percent of developers buy property, they put in all the infrastructure, decide how many homes per acre, divide up the cost of the infrastructure by the amount of homes in the development, and add this cost to each home before they are put on the market. This way everyone pays the same for infrastructure, no messing around with bonds, which I believe the developer makes all the interest off these bonds, which is really high compared to other interest rates. Developer here in The Villages always wins.
Bond holders get the interest. Many bonds have also been reissued at lower rates .

[John41]

In the small rural upstate NY town in which I lived, I was involved with the Planning board and eventually became the head of the Town Board. I knew the budget inside out. With that experience, I am not surprised that a large tax increase came after years of no tax increases. I am aware that there has been incredible increase in the tax base. However, residential development has a large infrastructure upkeep in the long haul. Roads don't last forever. With more residents, there is an increase need in the sheriff department, the court system, health department and many other government services. I am sure that the new board members are on a steep learning curve about the budget, how the county government runs, etc. I applaud that they are taking 6 months to learn enough to make a sound decision regarding the impact fees as well as our tax rate. Hopefully, as they go through the process, they will help all of us learn some of the intricacies that impact their final decision.

The Florida Impact Fee law states the increased services are to be paid through impact fees not property taxes. The law was passed because seniors were being taxed out of their homes by development.

[Aloha1]

Do you know the developer is a billionaire and many seniors here depend on SS. Talk about reverse Robin Hood steal from the poor to give to the rich. Nice.
Thou shalt not envy.

[Goldwingnut]

Does anyone actually think the developer would actually volunteer to a tax increase if it didn't benefit the family. Why do you think they set up this Bond structure, because it helps them make it look like the homes are cheaper than what they really are. 99.9999 percent of developers buy property, they put in all the infrastructure, decide how many homes per acre, divide up the cost of the infrastructure by the amount of homes in the development, and add this cost to each home before they are put on the market. This way everyone pays the same for infrastructure, no messing around with bonds, which I believe the developer makes all the interest off these bonds, which is really high compared to other interest rates. Developer here in The Villages always wins.

Sacrifice a pawn or a rook to save the queen.

As far as the bonds are concerned, yes, they work in the developer's favor, but they also work in the homeowner's favor as well.

It's all about cash flow for a business, building without the bonds ties up lots of cash and credit line that doesn't get recovered until most of the homes are sold. With the bond the infrastructure costs are recovered as they are delivered to the CDD, greatly improving the cash flow.

How does this benefit the residents? Simple, with free cash on hand the developer is able to invest in amenities and other facilities. When you buy here there is not "over there with be the tee box for the fourth hole" promises, the course is built, the pools are built, the rec centers are built. How many communities were built that were supposed to have pools, rec centers, golf courses, etc. that never appeared because the developer ran out of money; in Florida there are lots of these. (yes, sometimes there is an ebb and flow between the homes and amenities, it happens in any project of size).

The developer doesn't issue the bonds, the CDD government issues them, the bonds are sold on the open market to investors, the investors make the profits off of the interest rate of the bond. They are not mortgages and the interest rate of a bond can't be compared to that of a mortgage.

The bonds are not a secret, they are and must be fully disclosed during the buying process. If you don't read the documents and ask questions, who's fault is that.

[Aloha1]

This is still ( at least for now) a free country and all those who are unhappy about this issue are free to remove their anxiety and distress by moving elsewhere. I do not understand why, if you are all so unhappy here, that you would want to stay. You have choices so find a place that fits your budget and your desire to never have any increase in taxes. Good luck with that.

[GPGuar]

That might be a good thing! Over development is just as bad or worse than under development. With the number of people in TV, businesses will still come. Maybe we don’t need another thirty thousand homes. This only benefits the developers.

I feel the same way, there is way too much development in just a very short period of time. There was a time when the developer built one village at a time, now its just an explosion of houses with not nearly enough stores or business for south of 44.:bigbow:

[Aloha1]

I feel the same way, there is way too much development in just a very short period of time. There was a time when the developer built one village at a time, now its just an explosion of houses with not nearly enough stores or business for south of 44.:bigbow:

And yet, they sell out. If there wasn't a market, they wouldn't be building. There is HUGE demand from the center of the Baby Boomer age group for places like TV. You shouldn't be surprised by the growth.

[dewilson58]

The Florida Impact Fee law states the increased services are to be paid through impact fees not property taxes. The law was passed because seniors were being taxed out of their homes by development.
So increased services COULD BE paid for by impact fees, not required to be paid for by. Big difference.

[Bogie Shooter]

I feel the same way, there is way too much development in just a very short period of time. There was a time when the developer built one village at a time, now its just an explosion of houses with not nearly enough stores or business for south of 44.:bigbow:

Is your home south of 44?

[Advogado]

Good news. The County Commission just turned down the Developer's offer. The Developer offered to "voluntarily" pay 56% of what he should be paying for Sumter County roads--so long as he is protected from paying for his other county infrastructure and the residents pay for it!

[nn0wheremann]

In Taiwan a property owner writes their own assessment on a parcel of real estate. However, that assessment is an option to the county to purchase the property at the self declared assessed valuation. Just a way to keep everyone honest.

[Villages Kahuna]

My emails to Gary Search and Craig Estep are on their way. I hope all of you are taking the time to let them know how you feel about them caving in to the Morse pressure so quickly. Only a couple of months since the election and those two already appear to be in the Morse’s pocket. Somebody has to feed that fourth generation of the Morse family. Based on the new commissioner’s campaign, I never thought they’d flip and vote to have it come out of our pockets so quickly. Disgusting.

We’ve been in The Villages for sixteen years and probably don’t have that many more to go. But I will say this to those of you reading this that may not have made up your mind to buy and move here — consider the opinion of a longtime resident.

We've enjoyed our first fifteen years living here. But in the last year or so it’s become very apparent that the relationship between the Developer and the residents is changing in a big way. The quick and secretive decisions to increase building density and grab for cash flow from many more apartments, the disgusting decision to shift the cost of infrastructure in newly developed areas to ALL Sumter County residents with a huge real estate tax increase, and the out-of-control pace of development.

This isn’t the same type of community as it was under the ownership of Harold Schwartz and his son Gary Morse. The three siblings running The Villages now are nearing retirement. Who knows who and how many of the incoming fourth generation of the family will be running the place for the next few decades? But one thing is for sure — there are a whole lot more Morse mouths to feed. And it’s pretty clear the money will be coming out of all Sumter County resident’s pockets!

[Advogado]

My emails to Gary Search and Craig Estep are on their way. I hope all of you are taking the time to let them know how you feel about them caving in to the Morse pressure so quickly. Only a couple of months since the election and those two already appear to be in the Morse’s pocket. Somebody has to feed that fourth generation of the Morse family. Based on the new commissioner’s campaign, I never thought they’d flip and vote to have it come out of our pockets so quickly. Disgusting.

We’ve been in The Villages for sixteen years and probably don’t have that many more to go. But I will say this to those of you reading this that may not have made up your mind to buy and move here — consider the opinion of a longtime resident.

We've enjoyed our first fifteen years living here. But in the last year or so it’s become very apparent that the relationship between the Developer and the residents is changing in a big way. The quick and secretive decisions to increase building density and grab for cash flow from many more apartments, the disgusting decision to shift the cost of infrastructure in newly developed areas to ALL Sumter County residents with a huge real estate tax increase, and the out-of-control pace of development.

This isn’t the same type of community as it was under the ownership of Harold Schwartz and his son Gary Morse. The three siblings running The Villages now are nearing retirement. Who knows who and how many of the incoming fourth generation of the family will be running the place for the next few decades? But one thing is for sure — there are a whole lot more Morse mouths to feed. And it’s pretty clear the money will be coming out of all Sumter County resident’s pockets!

Hopefully, residents will heed your request and encourage Commissioners. Estep and Search to keep their campaign promise and keep it NOW, not some time in the future. All three new Commissioners (the EMS Team) are under tremendous pressure from the Developer not to do so ever--neither now nor in the future. The Developer's pressure includes propaganda disguised as news in his newspaper, attacks on the reputations of the EMS team, packing the Commission meeting, and filling the meeting's parking lot with construction vehicles to crowd out the public.

The delay in implementing reasonable impact fees for the Developer and a corresponding property-tax cut for residents is putting millions of dollars in the Developer's pocket at our expense.

Hopefully, residents will also give Commissioner Miller an attaboy for trying to keep his promise to the voters despite the Developer's pressure.

[manaboutown]

Sumter County needed to get that $50,000,000 somewhere for the new and upgraded roads where the developer plans to build.

[golfing eagles]

Do you know the developer is a billionaire and many seniors here depend on SS. Talk about reverse Robin Hood steal from the poor to give to the rich. Nice.

Did you know that the "developer" did not become a billionaire by living off SS?????
Just because "he" was very successful and earned lots of $$$ (over a 40+ year span) does not mean "he" should give it away. Typical "stick it to the rich" liberal class warfare.

On the other side, if your retirement plan was to live solely off SS, you planned poorly, especially if that plan included living in TV

[Advogado]

Did you know that the "developer" did not become a billionaire by living off SS?????
Just because "he" was very successful and earned lots of $$$ (over a 40+ year span) does not mean "he" should give it away. Typical "stick it to the rich" liberal class warfare.

On the other side, if your retirement plan was to live solely off SS, you planned poorly, especially if that plan included living in TV

I don't think that many residents are begrudging the Developer's becoming a billionaire by building and selling houses, and this is not "liberal class warfare" as you allege. (Full disclosure: I am a lifelong Republican.) In fact, over all, I admire the great job that the Developer has done in planning and building a retirement community and think that he deserves to have become rich doing so.

Our complaint here is:
We do begrudge the Developer's using his former control of the County Commission to further enrich himself at the expense of the residents of Sumter County. We, the residents, should not be subsidizing the Developer. We are now doing that via the combination of his sweetheart impact fee and our 25% tax hike to pay for his county infrastructure.

That combination exists only because the Developer, after he pushed through One Sumter, was able to put into office puppet Commissioners who would do his bidding. We tossed out 3 of the Developer's 5 puppet Commissioners in the last election and voted in the EMS team. We will toss out the remaining two (Gilpin and Breeden) next year.

[golfing eagles]

I don't think that many residents are begrudging the Developer's becoming a billionaire by building and selling houses, and this is not "liberal class warfare" as you allege. (Full disclosure: I am a lifelong Republican.) In fact, over all, I admire the great job that the Developer has done in planning and building a retirement community and think that he deserves to have become rich doing so.

Our complaint here is:
We do begrudge the Developer's using his former control of the County Commission to further enrich himself at the expense of the residents of Sumter County. We, the residents, should not be subsidizing the Developer. We are now doing that via the combination of his sweetheart impact fee and our 25% tax hike to pay for his county infrastructure.

That combination exists only because the Developer, after he pushed through One Sumter, was able to put into office puppet Commissioners who would do his bidding. We tossed out 3 of the Developer's 5 puppet Commissioners in the last election and voted in the EMS team. We will toss out the remaining two (Gilpin and Breeden) next year.

Again, and for the 10,000th time----Whether county infrastructure costs are financed through the property tax or an impact fee makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER to the developer. Any additional cost will simply be passed on to the new home buyer.

PS: If this issue finally gets resolved, what will you have to post about? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Advogado]

Again, and for the 10,000th time----Whether county infrastructure costs are financed through the property tax or an impact fee makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER to the developer. Any additional cost will simply be passed on to the new home buyer.

PS: If this issue finally gets resolved, what will you have to post about? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

First, your statement that paying for his own infrastructure through a reasonable impact fee would make “NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER to the developer” is absurd. Why do you think he and his suppliers spent almost a quarter of a million dollars last year in a failed attempt to keep his puppets in office and he has launched a propaganda and lobbying campaign to stall and block an end to his sweetheart impact-fee deal?

Second, think about it: If, as you seem to indicate, the Developer could simply increase his prices in the amount of the proposed impact fees without negatively impacting his sales and profits, he should fire his CFO for not already having increased prices, thereby leaving money on the table. If businesses could simply pass on higher costs without reducing sales, no business would ever go bankrupt.

Third, from a policy standpoint, if the Developer passes some (or even all) of higher impact fees to the buyers of new homes, fine. The costs of the new infrastructure will then be borne by the people benefiting from it, not by the current residents, most of whom are only getting negative effects from the massive growth.

In summary, the Developer is lining his pocket at the expense of current residents via a combination of a sweetheart impact fee for himself and higher property taxes. As to your question about what I will post about if this situation gets corrected, I don't know, but I would be happy to see the present abuse of current residents ended. I try to limit my posts to subjects that I know something about and care about.

[Bill14564]

Again, and for the 10,000th time----Whether county infrastructure costs are financed through the property tax or an impact fee makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER to the developer. Any additional cost will simply be passed on to the new home buyer.

PS: If this issue finally gets resolved, what will you have to post about? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

While this is true for homes would it be as true for businesses? A home might see an increase of up to $2,000 if the impact fee allocation was raised to 100% on the developer. On a $350,000 home this is a negligible 0.6% increase. Commercial properties pay considerably more. A 5,000 square foot restaurant would see an increase of about $90,000.

A developer could add $2,000 to the price of homes and still sell them as fast as he could build them. Would the developer have the same success selling the restaurant building at $90,000 more than what it sells for today? I don't know what commercial properties sell for or lease for but $90,000 doesn't seem like a negligible amount.

EDIT: I am not advocating for the status quo or a 100% impact fee. There has to be something in the middle that helps pay for more of the road impact without driving out new businesses entirely.

[golfing eagles]

First, your statement that paying for his own infrastructure through a reasonable impact fee would make “NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER to the developer” is absurd. Why do you think he and his suppliers spent almost a quarter of a million dollars last year in a failed attempt to keep his puppets in office and he has launched a propaganda and lobbying campaign to stall and block an end to his sweetheart impact-fee deal?

Second, think about it: If, as you seem to indicate, the Developer could simply increase his prices in the amount of the proposed impact fees without negatively impacting his sales and profits, he should fire his CFO for not already having increased prices, thereby leaving money on the table. If businesses could simply pass on higher costs without reducing sales, no business would ever go bankrupt.

Third, from a policy standpoint, if the Developer passes some (or even all) of higher impact fees to the buyers of new homes, fine. The costs of the new infrastructure will then be borne by the people benefiting from it, not by the current residents, most of whom are only getting negative effects from the massive growth.

In summary, the Developer is lining his pocket at the expense of current residents via a combination of a sweetheart impact fee for himself and higher property taxes. As to your question about what I will post about if this situation gets corrected, I don't know, but I would be happy to see the present abuse of current residents ended. I try to limit my posts to subjects that I know something about and care about.

In summary, you're wrong.

If TV was a development struggling to sell homes you would be right. Just look at the home sales around Juliette Falls. However, here they are selling as quickly as they can build them, so yes, the developer would have no problem passing on higher impact fees to the new homebuyer

And if you don't think residents of Sumter County get a huge benefit from TV, you're blind.
30 years ago Sumter County was the poorest county in Florida, now it ranks 10th or 11th. Better infrastructure, better retail, better employment---the list goes on

It is clear you care about this subject---but KNOW about if? That remains questionable.

[Advogado]

In summary, you're wrong.

If TV was a development struggling to sell homes you would be right. Just look at the home sales around Juliette Falls. However, here they are selling as quickly as they can build them, so yes, the developer would have no problem passing on higher impact fees to the new homebuyer

And if you don't think residents of Sumter County get a huge benefit from TV, you're blind.
30 years ago Sumter County was the poorest county in Florida, now it ranks 10th or 11th. Better infrastructure, better retail, better employment---the list goes on

It is clear you care about this subject---but KNOW about if? That remains questionable.

As I pointed out, it is clear that the Developer cannot raise prices without taking a profit hit-- for the reasons I detailed. He certainly doesn't think he can. But, as I also pointed out, we shouldn't care if he passes along 100% of increased impact fees, because we, the current residents, will still not be paying for his county infrastructure.

Here is what most residents are getting from the massive expansion of The Villages now underway:
>an outrageous 25% property-tax increase,
>wear and tear on our roads,
>downward pressure on our home values from the ever-increasing supply of homes,
>pollution,
>more strain on a one-star health care system,
>draining of our aquifer,
>traffic congestion,
>food trucks (“roach coaches”) instead of country clubs with restaurants and championship golf courses,
>a vast expanse of tract houses instead of a bucolic countryside,
>difficulty in contracting home services, and
>crowding at our various facilities.

You have not said one word about the issue here: Why should the current residents pay for county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages? Somebody has to pay for it, and that somebody clearly should be the Developer.

In your reply, which I suspect will be forthcoming, maybe you could address this issue, which involves tens of millions of our taxpayer dollars, instead of merely complaining because it matters to me, as it does to all the residents who booted out the Developer's puppet Commissioners last year. You and the Developer seem unwilling to accept the fact that this issue should have been decided by the outcome of that election.

[golfing eagles]

You have not said one word about the issue here: Why should the current residents pay for county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages? Somebody has to pay for it, and that somebody clearly should be the Developer.


As I have CLEARLY pointed out in many posts in many threads on this subject, there are 2 ways to pay for COUNTY infrastructure (Infrastructure within the development is funded through bonds).

One is to impose an "impact fee", based on the additional costs of having more homes in the county. More/ better access roads, more fire and police protection, more maintenance, etc. In most areas of the country those costs are built into the home price and the buyer never sees them (although they pay for them). This puts the additional cost on the the new homeowners since those costs will be passed on to the consumer(as it is everywhere else in the country) But to think "the developer" will pay for them out of "his" profit margin is idiotic.

The other is to fund it out of the general property tax revenue paid by all county residents. This forces the financial burden of additional costs of new development on everyone. Is that fair????

The third way is a combination of #1 and#2.

I don't know the answers, but.......
To those that feel they should not be subsidizing new homeowners on their tax dollar, who paid when YOUR home was the new development?
To those that think no one benefits other than the residents of a newly developed area, I have already posted a list that benefits everyone.

Someone has made the argument that the "developer" will have to eat the impact fees otherwise they would not be trying so hard to "control" the county commission. Well, there are a ton of benefits to controlling a county government beyond impact fees, so that argument doesn't old water. Homes here sell like hotcakes so I doubt there would be any problem passing costs along to the end user.

Of course, there will be those (one) who will disagree and continue his/her crusade:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Northwoods]

In the small rural upstate NY town in which I lived, I was involved with the Planning board and eventually became the head of the Town Board. I knew the budget inside out. With that experience, I am not surprised that a large tax increase came after years of no tax increases. I am aware that there has been incredible increase in the tax base. However, residential development has a large infrastructure upkeep in the long haul. Roads don't last forever. With more residents, there is an increase need in the sheriff department, the court system, health department and many other government services. I am sure that the new board members are on a steep learning curve about the budget, how the county government runs, etc. I applaud that they are taking 6 months to learn enough to make a sound decision regarding the impact fees as well as our tax rate. Hopefully, as they go through the process, they will help all of us learn some of the intricacies that impact their final decision.

Excellent post. It's refreshing to hear from someone who can speak from experience.

[dewilson58]

Excellent post. It's refreshing to hear from someone who can speak from experience.
Nothing new from the refreshing post.
All points stated before.
=Tax increase after years of none.
=Developments have infrastructure.
=Roads wear out.
=Expansion need sheriff, courts, health, etc.
=Trio are inexperienced, clueless and need education


:shrug:

[dewilson58]

You have not said one word about the issue here: Why should the current residents pay for county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages? Somebody has to pay for it, and that somebody clearly should be the Developer.
Prior expansions have been supplemented thru the current impact fee structure with no tax increases. The County should have increased taxes a percent or two over the last ten years. If they would have done this, the County would not have increased taxes by 25% in one year. The math is there. SO, Pay Me Now, Pay Me Later. Later is here.


So all this whining is for less than $1 per day.


County Taxes, State Taxes & Federal Taxes are used for roads that I will never use and that you will never use.


Less than $1 per day.



Even if the Impacts Fee were at 100% of the Professionally Recommended structure, the property taxes would have still increased by over 22%.


Less than $1 per day.


:cryin2:

[Advogado]

By about a two-to-one margin, the voters of Sumter County have already rejected the pseudo economics set forth both on this site (in posts by a couple of Developer defenders) and in the Daily Sun (in a series of so-called articles written by the Developer's Minister of Propaganda, David R. Corder). By electing the EMS Team to the County Commission, the voters decided that the current residents of Sumter County should not give the Developer hundreds of millions of their dollars by paying, through the residents' property-taxes, for county infrastructure that the Developer should be paying for through his impact fees.

Now, it is up to the new Commissioners, Messrs. Estep, Miller, and Search, to make good on their campaign promise by ending the Developer's sweetheart deal on impact fees and cutting our property taxes. With a majority on the Commission, they should do so NOW. Commissioner Miller is trying to do so. Commissioners Estep and Search voted to defer action until July.

Contact Commissioners Estep and Search and ask them to keep their campaign promise and to do so now. Deferral of action until July is putting millions of dollars into the Developer's pocket at our expense. The phone number Messrs. Estep and Search is 352-689-4400.

[dewilson58]

Deferral of action until July is putting millions of dollars into the Developer's pocket at our expense. The phone number Messrs. Estep and Search is 352-689-4400.


Yes, hate to defer action and get the inexperienced Commissioners educated........uneducated Commissioners & posters is much better. :1rotfl:

[Advogado]

Prior expansions have been supplemented thru the current impact fee structure with no tax increases. The County should have increased taxes a percent or two over the last ten years. If they would have done this, the County would not have increased taxes by 25% in one year. The math is there. SO, Pay Me Now, Pay Me Later. Later is here.


So all this whining is for less than $1 per day.


County Taxes, State Taxes & Federal Taxes are used for roads that I will never use and that you will never use.


Less than $1 per day.



Even if the Impacts Fee were at 100% of the Professionally Recommended structure, the property taxes would have still increased by over 22%.


Less than $1 per day.


:cryin2:

I am not "whining" about "less than a dollar a day". I can afford it, but some people cannot. And the Developer's impact fees should not be limited to 100% of roads, as you imply, He ought to be paying for ALL the county infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages, and if some of those costs get passed on to new home buyers, fine.

The real issue here is the crony capitalism that is putting hundreds of millions of residents' dollars into the pocket of the Developer. He packed the County Commission with his puppets. The puppets then gave him a sweetheart deal on impact fees and hit the residents with a massive property-tax increase.

And I have been doing something to address this malfeasance, not "whining". This includes doing what I could to replace 3 of the Developer's puppet Commissioners with the EMS Team in the last election and insisting that the EMS Team keep their campaign promise. If anybody has been "whining", it is the defenders of the Developer now that his sweetheart deal on impact fees is under attack.

[Advogado]

Yes, hate to defer action and get the inexperienced Commissioners educated........uneducated Commissioners & posters is much better. :1rotfl:

The new Commissioners had a full year to study impact fees. They don't need another six months. Time is money.

[graciegirl]

Nothing new from the refreshing post.
All points stated before.
=Tax increase after years of none.
=Developments have infrastructure.
=Roads wear out.
=Expansion need sheriff, courts, health, etc.
=Trio are inexperienced, clueless and need education


:shrug:

My thoughts too. It seems to me that there is a lobbying effort at foot again. I am not a fan.

[dewilson58]

I am not "whining" about "less than a dollar a day". I can afford it, but some people cannot. And the Developer's impact fees should not be limited to 100% of roads, as you imply, He ought to be paying for ALL the county infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages, and if some of those costs get passed on to new home buyers, fine.

The real issue here is the crony capitalism that is putting hundreds of millions of residents' dollars into the pocket of the Developer. He packed the County Commission with his puppets. The puppets then gave him a sweetheart deal on impact fees and hit the residents with a massive property-tax increase.

And I have been doing something to address this malfeasance, not "whining". This includes doing what I could to replace 3 of the Developer's puppet Commissioners with the EMS Team in the last election and insisting that the EMS Team keep their campaign promise. If anybody has been "whining", it is the defenders of the Developer now that his sweetheart deal on impact fees is under attack.
Yes U R whining. Continuously.

Yes everyone can afford it, otherwise they should not be in a $300,000 house.
If they are not in a $300k home, they are not paying $1 per day.


Developers DO NOT pay 100%.
Counties & Commissioners want growth & they give incentives.


You have been asked for proof of your "puppet" label and have never delivered support. You may think it, but you have no proof.


Yes EMS is in.
They have no experience.
Made promises and voters fell for campaign promises. :a040:
Not sure I would be proud.



Hundreds of millions did not go into the Developer's pocket.

So many posters have tried to educate you.

Please learn, you might be a happier person.

[Advogado]

Nothing new from the refreshing post.
All points stated before.
=Tax increase after years of none.
=Developments have infrastructure.
=Roads wear out.
=Expansion need sheriff, courts, health, etc.
=Trio are inexperienced, clueless and need education


:shrug:

I am having a lot of trouble understanding your position. A simple question, which you continue to dance around as you criticize the EMS Team as "clueless": Who should pay for the County infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages-- the Developer or the current residents? Somebody has to pay.

If you answer "both", how should the costs be split? Right now the Developer is paying 40% for the roads and 0% for everything else. The current residents are now paying 60% and 100% respectively. Two thirds of the voters decided that this isn't fair.

[dewilson58]

I am having a lot of trouble understanding your position. A simple question, which you continue to dance around as you criticize the EMS Team as "clueless": Who should pay for the County infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages-- the Developer or the current residents? Somebody has to pay.

If you answer "both", how should the costs be split? Right now the Developer is paying 40% for the roads and 0% for everything else. The current residents are now paying 60% and 100% respectively. Two thirds of the voters decided that this isn't fair.
Simple. Both.
What you don't understand, if the Developer pays 100% of the Impact Study Fee .......you will NEVER get the 25% increase reversed. Never. That's what you are whining for. It ain't going to happen.


Also what you don't understand is the timing of revenues vs expenditure for the County. Even with 100% fee schedule, the County would be upside down on cashflow.



I'm for the Developer paying 100% of the Impact Fee Schedule.
The Villages will be glad to pay that schedule as well.
It's only a couple grand price increase per house.
Not sure if it's fair for a developer or a McDonalds down in Linden Florida to pay the fee.
New business will be hit with the new schedule.....fair??.....nope.



Impact Fees are meant for capital improvements, not operating expenses.
Operating expenses are paid by taxes.


Take time to do the math, understand commissioners' charters, County Government, and purpose of impact fees and maybe you will be a wiser voter next time.......rather than pushing and supporting inexperience and a silly promise.


Hope you have a nice day..............one of these days.

[Mleeja]

IT HAS TO BE GREAT TO BE ABLE TO SET YOUR OWN TAX RATE

Background of the 25% Property Tax Hike. In case any readers still don't know about the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and our huge property-tax hike to preserve it, they can watch this video, recorded at the County Commissioner's hearing on September 24, 2019-- as the Developer's puppets on the Commission were about to hike our property tax 25% to preserve that sweetheart fee: Scott Fenstermaker--How can five guys screw 125000 people? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiReUkH_V4)

As a result of that property-tax increase, we the voters of Sumter County, last year, woke up to what had been going on and tossed out the three Developer's puppet Commissioners (Butler, Burgess, and Printz) who were up for re-election, and we voted in the EMS team of Estep, Miller, and Search. We did so on the basis of a promise by Estep, Miller, and Search to roll back the property tax hike by requiring the Developer to pay for his own county infrastructure through a reasonable impact fee.

Now this tax-reform process is in doubt.

The Developer's Efforts to Keep His Sweetheart Impact Fee. This process is in doubt because the Developer is doing everything in his power to preserve his sweetheart impact fee. He is lobbying the County Commissioners, packing a Commission meeting with his contractors and allies, filling the meeting parking lot with his contractors' heavy equipment so there were no parking spaces for the public, and running a series of propaganda articles in his newspaper vilifying impact fees. His latest ploy is an attempt to “voluntarily” raise his sweetheart road impact fee by 40% in exchange for protection from imposition from any other impact-fee increases. Well, a 40% increase of his sweetheart road impact fee won't come close to covering the costs of all county infrastructure that the Developer should be paying for.

A Comparison of Impact Fees. It is interesting to compare the impact fees that the Developer would pay in Collier County (where his puppets do not set impact fees) with what he pays in Sumter County:
In Collier County, the builder of a retirement community would pay impact fees for:
>Community Parks,
>Regional Parks,
>Roads,
>EMS,
>Schools,
>Government Buildings,
>Libraries,
>Law Enforcement,
>Jail,
>Water,
>Sewer, and
>Fire.
The total of these impact fees in Collier County is approximately $24,000/house, the exact amount depending on where in the county it is built.

In Sumter County, the Developer pays an impact fee of only $972 for roads. (This is only 40% of what the impact-fee study calculated each of his houses is costing the county for new roads). THE DEVELOPER PAYS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR THE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE that Collier County collects for. Who pays for all the stuff that the Developer doesn't pay for? We, the residents (individuals and existing businesses), do. The Daily Sun articles claim that reasonable impact fees in Sumter County would “paralyze” growth here. Nonsense. The impact fees are 25 times higher in Collier County, and growth there has not been “paralyzed”. Reasonable impact fees allow lower property taxes and are good for the economy. For the truth about the economic benefit of paying for new infrastructure via impact fees, check out this report: Paying for Prosperity: Impact Fees and Job Growth (https://www.brookings.edu/research/paying-for-prosperity-impact-fees-and-job-growth/)

What Voters Can Do Now to Get Our Property Tax Rolled Back. If the EMS Team had stuck together and stuck to their promises, with 3 of the 5 Commissioners, the process would have started already. But, for some reason, Mr. Estep made a motion to delay even considering the necessary impact-fee increase for six months, and it was passed with the votes of Mr. Search and Developer puppet Breeden. After Mr. Estep was criticized by the public for his motion, Mr. Search came to his defense in the on-line news, calling voters who believed Mr. Estep's campaign promise of tax reform “ill-informed”. In light of the Developer's brazen proposal to set his own tax rate, it looks like the Developer thinks that he has flipped at least one member of the EMS Team and thus controls at least 3 of the 5 votes. Meantime, the six-month delay puts millions of dollars into the Developer's pocket, at our expense, as the Developer pays impact fees at the sweetheart rate and we subsidize him as our property tax accrues at its inflated rate.

Given the fact that the Developer feels confident enough about his influence over the County Commission to believe that he can set his own tax rate, what can we, the voters, do to successfully roll back the massive property-tax increase? I have to admit: I don't know.

The Sad Conclusion. The sad truth is that we won the battle by voting out the Developer's puppets (Butler, Burgess, and Printz). However, in light of the votes of Mr. Estep and Mr. Search, the Developer may have won the war. Probably all we can do is contact Messrs. Estep and Search and insist they keep their promise to us. We can also contact Mr. Miller and thank him for keeping his. Contact information is available here: About the Commissioners | Sumter County, FL - Official Website (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/67/About-the-Commissioners) Obviously, contacting Messrs. Gilpin or Breeden would be a waste of time. We have to vote them out next year.

Why do you continue to post lies? Comparing Sumter County to Collier County is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both just fruit! In Sumter County the impact fee covers just roads. All the other stuff you mentioned are built and paid with the development bonds.

[Advogado]

Why do you continue to post lies? Comparing Sumter County to Collier County is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both just fruit! In Sumter County the impact fee covers just roads. All the other stuff you mentioned are built and paid with the development bonds.

You need to do some further research and understand what is going on before accusing me of lying. The fact that Sumter County impact fees only cover roads and only 40% of their cost and nothing for other infrastructure is exactly the point. Why do you think that is?

For your information: The "development" bonds to which you refer, but apparently don't understand, only cover infrastructure within the relevant Community Development District.

To determine what appropriate impact fees should be for county infrastructure requires a study by a consulting firm, as was done regarding the road costs. Until that study is done, nobody knows what those impact fees should be. I have never claimed to have that information. They may turn out to be less that Collier County, but could turn out to be more.

Bottom line: somebody has to pay for the additional infrastructure-- the Developer or the current residents. You seem to be arguing that it should be the current residents. If so, why don't you simply say so instead of accusing me of lying.

[golfing eagles]

........Bottom line: somebody has to pay for the additional infrastructure-- the Developer or the current residents. You seem to be arguing that it should be the current residents. If so, why don't you simply say so instead of accusing me of lying.

Bottom line: somebody has to pay for the additional infrastructure-- New residents or the current residents. You seem to be arguing that it should be the new residents. If so, why don't you simply say so, instead of trying to convince people that "the developer" will pay?

[Bogie Shooter]

I am not "whining" about "less than a dollar a day". I can afford it, but some people cannot. And the Developer's impact fees should not be limited to 100% of roads, as you imply, He ought to be paying for ALL the county infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages, and if some of those costs get passed on to new home buyers, fine.

The real issue here is the crony capitalism that is putting hundreds of millions of residents' dollars into the pocket of the Developer. He packed the County Commission with his puppets. The puppets then gave him a sweetheart deal on impact fees and hit the residents with a massive property-tax increase.

And I have been doing something to address this malfeasance, not "whining". This includes doing what I could to replace 3 of the Developer's puppet Commissioners with the EMS Team in the last election and insisting that the EMS Team keep their campaign promise. If anybody has been "whining", it is the defenders of the Developer now that his sweetheart deal on impact fees is under attack.

Now there is a new set of puppets........

[Aloha1]

By about a two-to-one margin, the voters of Sumter County have already rejected the pseudo economics set forth both on this site (in posts by a couple of Developer defenders) and in the Daily Sun (in a series of so-called articles written by the Developer's Minister of Propaganda, David R. Corder). By electing the EMS Team to the County Commission, the voters decided that the current residents of Sumter County should not give the Developer hundreds of millions of their dollars by paying, through the residents' property-taxes, for county infrastructure that the Developer should be paying for through his impact fees.

Now, it is up to the new Commissioners, Messrs. Estep, Miller, and Search, to make good on their campaign promise by ending the Developer's sweetheart deal on impact fees and cutting our property taxes. With a majority on the Commission, they should do so NOW. Commissioner Miller is trying to do so. Commissioners Estep and Search voted to defer action until July.

Contact Commissioners Estep and Search and ask them to keep their campaign promise and to do so now. Deferral of action until July is putting millions of dollars into the Developer's pocket at our expense. The phone number Messrs. Estep and Search is 352-689-4400.

You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to your own "facts". Has it ever occurred to you that your basic premise is WRONG??

[dewilson58]

You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to your own "facts". Has it ever occurred to you that your basic premise is WRONG??
I've tried and tried to educate him/her............but not receptive.
Not sure what the driver is, but definitely has a slice to it.
:gc:

[Aloha1]

I've tried and tried to educate him/her............but not receptive.
Not sure what the driver is, but definitely has a slice to it.
:gc:

Afraid so. Bigger blinders than on a horse.

[Advogado]

You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to your own "facts". Has it ever occurred to you that your basic premise is WRONG??

And what basic premise is that?

The indisputable fact is that the current residents of Sumter County are spending tens of millions of their dollars to pay for county infrastructure that should be paid for by the Developer, thereby giving the Developer tens of millions of dollars. In fact, the Developer is only paying 40% of the cost of the new roads that his expansion is necessitating. (Look at the impact study.) The Developer is paying nothing toward the cost of his other infrastructure. To the extent that the Developer can pass on the increased costs of new impact fees to the new-house buyers, fine. New growth is then paying for the costs of new growth.

You and a couple other Developerphiles seem intent on not letting the facts interfere with your preconceived notions. Before you post any more rubbish, I would suggest you read the following to learn something about impact fees: Paying for Prosperity: Impact Fees and Job Growth (https://www.brookings.edu/research/paying-for-prosperity-impact-fees-and-job-growth/)

[dewilson58]

And what basic premise is that?


:blahblahblah:

.....your indisputable facts are not.



Your false premise is that the Developer should pay for the county infrastructure. That is an opinion. Most independent consultants recommend discounts. Most Counties have issued discounts.



Another false premise is that increasing the impact fee to 100% is going to get the 25% increase reversed. It won't.

[Advogado]

:blahblahblah:

.....your indisputable facts are not.



Your false premise is that the Developer should pay for the county infrastructure. That is an opinion. Most independent consultants recommend discounts. Most Counties have issued discounts.



Another false premise is that increasing the impact fee to 100% is going to get the 25% increase reversed. It won't.

I have never said that raising the road impact fee would, by itself, raise adequate revenue to allow the 25% property-tax hike to be "reversed". Of course it wouldn't.

Raising it to 100%, which it should be, would allow a partial rollback. Imposing impact fees to cover ALL the Developer's infrastructure would allow a 100% rollback, conceptually. Remember the tax hike was enacted to pay for the new infrastructure, but it will take an impact study to develop the actual figures. Maybe a proper impact fee on all the new infrastructure would allow even more than a 100% property-tax reduction. We will only know once the new impact study is done.

Which "independent" experts, to whom you refer, recommend that a developer pay only 40% of the cost of his road infrastructure and 0% of the cost of his other infrastructure and that the current residents pay the rest? (I would agree that there may be certain circumstances where less than 100% would make sense, but I would submit that those circumstances do not exist in Sumter County.)

Did you read the Brookings report as I suggested? In case you are unaware, Brookings is one of the most renowned, independent, public-policy institutions in the world. It is a non-profit, with no axe to grind, and the report refutes what you and your colleagues have been posting on this issue. More importantly, two thirds of the voters in Sumter County concluded last year that you are mistaken.

[dewilson58]

I have never said that raising the road impact fee would, by itself, raise adequate revenue to allow the 25% property-tax hike to be "reversed". Of course it wouldn't.

Raising it to 100%, which it should be, would allow a partial rollback. Imposing impact fees to cover ALL the Developer's infrastructure would allow a 100% rollback, conceptually.should be paid for by the Developer Remember the tax hike was enacted to pay for the new infrastructure, but it will take an impact study to develop the actual figures. Maybe a proper impact fee on all the new infrastructure would allow even more than a 100% property-tax reduction. We will only know once the new impact study is done.

Which "independent" experts, to whom you refer, recommend that a developer pay only 40% of the cost of his road infrastructure and 0% of the cost of his other infrastructure and that the current residents pay the rest? (I would agree that there may be certain circumstances where less than 100% would make sense, but I would submit that those circumstances do not exist in Sumter County.)


On January 19th, you stated the 25% would be rolled back by eliminating the Developer sweetheart impact fee deal. This is why you are so upset with EMS because they have not done it yet. There are probably more posts from you, you can search.



You are learning (finally), increasing the impact fee to 100% would give a partial reversal of the 25%. Maybe 2%. I know this 2% figure is a shock to you, but I'm glad you finally realize it. All this whining over a discount which equated to 2% increase.....what??, $50/year???



Your statement, "Imposing impact fees to cover ALL the Developer's infrastructure would allow a 100% rollback, conceptually." is totally wrong. (false premise, again) Included in the 25% tax hike was to cover increased operational expenses. These expenses are unrelated to the infrastructure costs. Increases the impact fee to cover 100% of the infrastructure costs will not cover increase in operating expenses.


Need expert opinions.................Google and call them. Call Tindale Oliver if you want. The 40% fee was presented as an option to Sumter County by TO.

[dewilson58]

Thank You for all the PM's.


I know, I know......................let it go, someone has an agenda!!!


I will make an attempt.


:pepper2:

[golfing eagles]

Thank You for all the PM's.


I know, I know......................let it go, someone has an agenda!!!


I will make an attempt.


:pepper2:

That "someone" will never let it go:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Altavia]

Thank You for all the PM's.


I know, I know......................let it go, someone has an agenda!!!


I will make an attempt.


:pepper2:

The OP's posts remind me of virgins talking about sex...

[Bogie Shooter]

The OP's posts remind me of virgins talking about sex...

:a040:

[Happydaz]

It is amazing the way that the frequent, “professional” posters on this site pile on someone who disagrees with them. All are frequent posters who have thousands of posts and favor the developer on every topic. Here are some facts. 2 out 3 voters in Sumter County voted the three incumbents up for reelection out of office in a landslide election. Residents of Sumter County are looking for increased impact fees. There are more of us than there are of you. The voters of Sumter County spoke. No matter how much pressure the developer and his allies put on us we are not caving in. The articles in the Daily Sun were pathetic and one sided. Villagers I spoke with laughed at the Daily Sun and the reporter who wrote the article. We want change to come to Sumter County and want a more equitable road impact fee.

[Northwoods]

It is amazing the way that the frequent, “professional” posters on this site pile on someone who disagrees with them. All are frequent posters who have thousands of posts and favor the developer on every topic. Here are some facts. 2 out 3 voters in Sumter County voted the three incumbents up for reelection out of office in a landslide election. Residents of Sumter County are looking for increased impact fees. There are more of us than there are of you. The voters of Sumter County spoke. No matter how much pressure the developer and his allies put on us we are not caving in. The articles in the Daily Sun were pathetic and one sided. Villagers I spoke with laughed at the Daily Sun and the reporter who wrote the article. We want change to come to Sumter County and want a more equitable road impact fee.

Is a "professional" poster someone who has a different opinion than you do?

I think people voted out the previous commissioners because there was a 25% tax increase. The EMS team ran on the promise of "rolling back" the 25% tax increase. So... they have to deliver. I am assuming the EMS team is realizing that is a lot more difficult to deliver now that they are in office.

I would bet many Villagers don't fully understand or care about impact fees... they just want to roll back that tax increase. I would also bet the same Villagers would be outraged if businesses or UF-Shands decided not to come to Sumter County because of the increase in impact fees. I'm not sure who is paying for the new Southern UF-Shands structure, but it was the Developer that negotiated that agreement and put forth that vision... not the commissioners.

The EMS team has to learn how to negotiate. The Developer has presented a vision of a new hospital, new schools (for all those workers we need) and non-Villages housing for workers. It would be disappointing to see all of those things go away because there was a stalemate between the commissioners and The Developer.

[Advogado]

On January 19th, you stated the 25% would be rolled back by eliminating the Developer sweetheart impact fee deal. This is why you are so upset with EMS because they have not done it yet. There are probably more posts from you, you can search.



You are learning (finally), increasing the impact fee to 100% would give a partial reversal of the 25%. Maybe 2%. I know this 2% figure is a shock to you, but I'm glad you finally realize it. All this whining over a discount which equated to 2% increase.....what??, $50/year???



Your statement, "Imposing impact fees to cover ALL the Developer's infrastructure would allow a 100% rollback, conceptually." is totally wrong. (false premise, again) Included in the 25% tax hike was to cover increased operational expenses. These expenses are unrelated to the infrastructure costs. Increases the impact fee to cover 100% of the infrastructure costs will not cover increase in operating expenses.


Need expert opinions.................Google and call them. Call Tindale Oliver if you want. The 40% fee was presented as an option to Sumter County by TO.



I stand by what I said both in my post that you quote and elsewhere. You have the incredible ability to: (a) refute statements that I have never made, and (b) ignore the clear language of statements that I have made.

I have never said, anywhere, that merely raising the Developer's road impact fee on roads would finance the elimination of the 25% property-tax increase. Although the Developer certainly should pay 100% of the road impact fee, that by itself, will not be enough-- although you never explain the 2% figure that you throw out. As I have tried to explain to you, the Developer's sweetheart impact fee consists of paying an impact fee of 40% for county roads and 0% for his other county infrastructure. The current residents have been making up the shortfall through our property taxes.

To eliminate his sweetheart deal and allow an appropriate“rollback” (a term that both I and the EMS Team have used) will require the Developer not only to pay 100% of the cost of his county roads, but also pay 100% of the cost of his other county infrastructure. Calculating the amount of the total revenue that this will generate, as I have said repeatedly in response to your misstatements, will require an impact fee study. Once that study is done, it will be possible to determine the extent the the 25% property-tax increase can be rolled back-- maybe less than a 100% reversal but maybe even more. You don't know, and I don't know.

I am done responding to your half-baked comments and nitpicking posts that never really express your position on the real issue: Who should pay for the county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages-- the Developer or the current residents? Would you please read the Brookings report to which I gave you a link to so that you can understand why the answer to that question should be: “The Developer.” That is what the voters of Sumter County decided by a 2-to-1 margin in the last election.

[golfing eagles]

I stand by what I said both in my post that you quote and elsewhere. You have the incredible ability to: (a) refute statements that I have never made, and (b) ignore the clear language of statements that I have made.

I have never said, anywhere, that merely raising the Developer's road impact fee on roads would finance the elimination of the 25% property-tax increase. Although the Developer certainly should pay 100% of the road impact fee, that by itself, will not be enough-- although you never explain the 2% figure that you throw out. As I have tried to explain to you, the Developer's sweetheart impact fee consists of paying an impact fee of 40% for county roads and 0% for his other county infrastructure. The current residents have been making up the shortfall through our property taxes.

To eliminate his sweetheart deal and allow an appropriate“rollback” (a term that both I and the EMS Team have used) will require the Developer not only to pay 100% of the cost of his county roads, but also pay 100% of the cost of his other county infrastructure. Calculating the amount of the total revenue that this will generate, as I have said repeatedly in response to your misstatements, will require an impact fee study. Once that study is done, it will be possible to determine the extent the the 25% property-tax increase can be rolled back-- maybe less than a 100% reversal but maybe even more. You don't know, and I don't know.

I am done responding to your half-baked comments and nitpicking posts that never really express your position on the real issue: Who should pay for the county infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages-- the Developer or the current residents? Would you please read the Brookings report to which I gave you a link to so that you can understand why the answer to that question should be: “The Developer.” That is what the voters of Sumter County decided by a 2-to-1 margin in the last election.

:blahblahblah::blahblahblah::blahblahblah:

[kappy]

Is a "professional" poster someone who has a different opinion than you do?

I think people voted out the previous commissioners because there was a 25% tax increase. The EMS team ran on the promise of "rolling back" the 25% tax increase. So... they have to deliver. I am assuming the EMS team is realizing that is a lot more difficult to deliver now that they are in office.

I would bet many Villagers don't fully understand or care about impact fees... they just want to roll back that tax increase. I would also bet the same Villagers would be outraged if businesses or UF-Shands decided not to come to Sumter County because of the increase in impact fees. I'm not sure who is paying for the new Southern UF-Shands structure, but it was the Developer that negotiated that agreement and put forth that vision... not the commissioners.

The EMS team has to learn how to negotiate. The Developer has presented a vision of a new hospital, new schools (for all those workers we need) and non-Villages housing for workers. It would be disappointing to see all of those things go away because there was a stalemate between the commissioners and The Developer.The hospital has been scheduled to be built in Lake County.

[John41]

The OP's posts remind me of virgins talking about sex...

And you would know about that how?