Recall Sumter County Commissioners: Estep, Search, Miller, Breeden

[Buckeye One]

Who is up for a recall effort?

[JSR22]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Not me! I am 100% satisfied with the new commissioners especially Oren Miller.

[Buckeye One]

Thank you for sharing.

[Bogie Shooter]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Ae these the ones?

Estep, a former state trooper who has never held public office before, campaigned on a stick-it-to-The-Villages-Developer platform, with Miller, a failed Democratic candidate for the 2018 House of Representatives race and Search, a retired educator who was elected on the Democratic ticket of a small Pennsylvania commission a decade ago.

[tophcfa]

Ae these the ones?

Estep, a former state trooper who has never held public office before, campaigned on a stick-it-to-The-Villages-Developer platform, with Miller, a failed Democratic candidate for the 2018 House of Representatives race and Search, a retired educator who was elected on the Democratic ticket of a small Pennsylvania commission a decade ago.

Quoted from the Daily Sun.

[John41]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Breeden is one of the developer puppets as is Gilpin. You had your chance in last election so grow up and accept your overwhelming loss.

[vintageogauge]

Leave them alone, this is only just starting lets see how it ends. There is such a huge demand for businesses here that they will come no matter what the tax situation is and a few thousand extra for a home will not even be noticed by most buyers.

[Joe V.]

Leave them alone, this is only just starting lets see how it ends. There is such a huge demand for businesses here that they will come no matter what the tax situation is and a few thousand extra for a home will not even be noticed by most buyers.

A few thousand more would have changed my purchasing here in TV. Sure, I could have bought a smaller house but that would not have been satisfactory.

[dewilson58]

Now that these inexperienced newbies are in office, they learned:


Board of County Commissioners' Mission Statement
Our mission is to provide the most efficient, effective, and responsive government that achieves economic growth, quality customer service, and a safe community for our citizens.


Whoops!!!!


#1 Economic Growth


Says nothing about tax levels.


Whoops!!!

[Stu from NYC]

They deserve more time.

[Buckeye One]

Thank you for sharing. I am not concerned about the cost of homes. It' the many thousands of dollars for a small business to open and hundreds of thousands for major developments to open. The County should be helping businesses not taxing them into another county or state. See how that is working for high tax states.

[Buckeye One]

So much for open discussion.

[CFrance]

Quoted from the Daily Sun.
That explains it.

[sail33or]

I believe most folks are very confused about how the County pays for things. And I believe the "reporting" is stating it in a very confusing way "on purpose".

I am not taking sides. I just would like to separate the facts into very simple concepts.

The County has a budget based on what it needs going forward. Sumter needs more fire stations, roads, all infrastructure, etc "BECAUSE" The Villages is "EXPANDING" at a rate that does not exist anywhere else.

In Texas, the Counties do not issue Building Permits unless the DEVELOPER pays for EVERYTHING as part of the deal. If the development is really big, the developer must pay for a new school, police stations, fire station, roads, underground utilities, etc.

But in Sumter, somehow the developer gets the County to pay for everything needed. And then the developer gets the home owner to take over the BOND that was used to actually build the developers site. So the Developer has figured out how to collect enormous profits and avoid the normal expenses others pay.

Sumter County has to get money from somewhere. It is confusing because it is also ironic. The Villages expands creating the need for jobs and businesses but doesn't pay the needed costs supplying police, fire, water, roads, utilities, etc.

[dewilson58]

If the Road Impact Fee schedule changes, how many new homes will actually be charged???

Tens of thousands of homes will not:
Thousands of homes have been built.
Thousands of homes have been started.
Thousands of homes have been planned & approved and impact fees paid.
Hundreds of acres have been rezoned and land use redetermined, so impact fees have been charged for Thousands & Thousands of more homes.
That's probably well over 50% of the expansion.


AND............if the County starts talking a $10,000 Impact Fee Structure, The Villages is smart enough to go apply under the current pricing structure (the current agreement), prior to board approval.



SO, what will the real benefit be for the County net, net, net?????????????


:popcorn:

[mrf6969]

Perhaps the developer should slow down or stop developing if they cannot afford to do so. Please keep your sticky fingers out of our pockets. They build all this infrastructure way ahead long before they plant homes. There ripping up dirt now miles south and homes will not be build there for years. Does this seem smart?

[Bogie Shooter]

Ae these the ones?

Estep, a former state trooper who has never held public office before, campaigned on a stick-it-to-The-Villages-Developer platform, with Miller, a failed Democratic candidate for the 2018 House of Representatives race and Search, a retired educator who was elected on the Democratic ticket of a small Pennsylvania commission a decade ago.

Quoted from the Daily Sun.

That explains it.
So, this is not true?

[Northerner52]

Commissioners,

Why not sell tax free bonds to be paid over 10, 15 or 20 years and match debt payments with tax revenue from future home taxes?

Lowest rates in history

Perhaps refund last years tax increase.

Not to be confused with the bonds attached to homes.

Municipal Bond Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/municipalbond.asp)

What are municipal bonds and how are they used? | Tax Policy Center (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-municipal-bonds-and-how-are-they-used)

State and local governments issue bonds to pay for large, expensive, and long-lived capital projects, such as roads, bridges, airports, schools, hospitals, water treatment facilities, power plants, courthouses, and other public buildings. Although states and localities can and sometimes do pay for capital investments with current revenues, borrowing allows them to spread the costs across multiple generations. Future project users bear some of the cost through higher taxes or tolls, fares, and other charges that help service the debts.

States and localities issue short-term debt or notes to help smooth uneven cash flows (e.g., when tax revenues arrive in April but expenditures occur throughout the year). They also issue debt on behalf of private entities (e.g., to build projects with public benefit or for so-called public-private partnerships).

HOW LARGE IS THE MUNI BOND MARKET?

At the end of 2019, state and local governments had $3.85 trillion in debt outstanding (figure 1). About 98 percent of this debt was long term or with a maturity of 13 months or longer, while the remaining 2 percent was short term. As in most years, roughly 40 percent of municipal debt was issued by states and 60 percent by local governments.

[vintageogauge]

Thank you for sharing. I am not concerned about the cost of homes. It' the many thousands of dollars for a small business to open and hundreds of thousands for major developments to open. The County should be helping businesses not taxing them into another county or state. See how that is working for high tax states.

My guess is the biggest fear TV has in regards to this possible increase is their 7,000,000 sq. ft. industrial park outside of Coleman, that might end up sitting there for quite a long time. The retail space that they have and are building will eventually fill up, they might have to subsidize a bit here and there but with all of the growth that is continuing in the southern villages they will fill it up. I would also guess that the commission will work with medical facilities as if they allow UF to walk away from the 400 acre facility there will be hell to pay.

[dewilson58]

Perhaps the developer should slow down or stop developing if they cannot afford to do so. Please keep your sticky fingers out of our pockets. They build all this infrastructure way ahead long before they plant homes. There ripping up dirt now miles south and homes will not be build there for years. Does this seem smart?


EXTREMELY smart...............they have paid the Impact Fee based on the current schedule. :icon_wink:

[dewilson58]

Commissioners,

Why not sell tax free bonds to be paid over 10, 15 or 20 years and match debt payments with tax revenue from future home taxes?
Perhaps refund last years tax increase.
It's against the law!!

[Mleeja]

Breeden is one of the developer puppets as is Gilpin. You had your chance in last election so grow up and accept your overwhelming loss.

Yes, you have gone from the developer puppets to the POA puppets.

[Bogie Shooter]

Commissioners,

Why not sell tax free bonds to be paid over 10, 15 or 20 years and match debt payments with tax revenue from future home taxes?

Lowest rates in history

Perhaps refund last years tax increase.

Not to be confused with the bonds attached to homes.

Municipal Bond Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/municipalbond.asp)

What are municipal bonds and how are they used? | Tax Policy Center (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-municipal-bonds-and-how-are-they-used)

State and local governments issue bonds to pay for large, expensive, and long-lived capital projects, such as roads, bridges, airports, schools, hospitals, water treatment facilities, power plants, courthouses, and other public buildings. Although states and localities can and sometimes do pay for capital investments with current revenues, borrowing allows them to spread the costs across multiple generations. Future project users bear some of the cost through higher taxes or tolls, fares, and other charges that help service the debts.

States and localities issue short-term debt or notes to help smooth uneven cash flows (e.g., when tax revenues arrive in April but expenditures occur throughout the year). They also issue debt on behalf of private entities (e.g., to build projects with public benefit or for so-called public-private partnerships).

HOW LARGE IS THE MUNI BOND MARKET?

At the end of 2019, state and local governments had $3.85 trillion in debt outstanding (figure 1). About 98 percent of this debt was long term or with a maturity of 13 months or longer, while the remaining 2 percent was short term. As in most years, roughly 40 percent of municipal debt was issued by states and 60 percent by local governments.

See post #4.

[kansasr]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Sumter County has no recall provisions

[Northerner52]

It's against the law!!

Still a better way to pay road impact fees

[Dond1959]

I am hopeful the developer and at least 3 of the county commissioners can come to some agreement before July. If that doesn’t happen then this can turn into a big game of chicken to see who blinks first. The developer holds a very big hammer and if they decide to shut it all down for a few months the economy here would be devastated. You can say that will never happen but you never know. The Villages development is privately owned and they can do whatever they want. If that happens you will all be screaming for recall of the commissioners as all of our tax rates would skyrocket. Go off the cliff like Thelma and Louise with Miller leading the way, but there could be significant consequences.

[LeeM]

I am super happy with our new commissioners. They are working for the residents NOT the developer. Don’t get duped by the propaganda in the developer’s Daily Sun paper. There’s a reason the developer and his minions used dirty tricks so Democrats couldn’t vote his ‘yes boys’ out. He wanted to stay in complete control. The fake candidate scheme is currently being investigated. Despite the dirty tricks including the paper’s propaganda, we still managed to get rid of the ‘yes boys’. Now we have reps that work for US!

[Stu from NYC]

I am hopeful the developer and at least 3 of the county commissioners can come to some agreement before July. If that doesn’t happen then this can turn into a big game of chicken to see who blinks first. The developer holds a very big hammer and if they decide to shut it all down for a few months the economy here would be devastated. You can say that will never happen but you never know. The Villages development is privately owned and they can do whatever they want. If that happens you will all be screaming for recall of the commissioners as all of our tax rates would skyrocket. Go off the cliff like Thelma and Louise with Miller leading the way, but there could be significant consequences.

Find it hard to believe the developer would decide to go out of business if they suddenly have to go back and pay for the development they are doing.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Who is up for a recall effort?

🖐🖐🖐

[Dond1959]

Find it hard to believe the developer would decide to go out of business if they suddenly have to go back and pay for the development they are doing.

Didn’t say go out of business, just shut it down for a few months. The developer has multiple lines of revenue and not all are related to building (obviously building is the largest). The point is this could be a game of chicken, and being a private company means they can do what they want. What do you think would happen if thousands and thousands of people working here were suddenly unemployed? The developer has a lot of power over the economy here and could make it very difficult for the commissioners if they wanted.

Many people think raising the impact fees will have no impact, I disagree because it is basic economics. The county has grown tremendously due to the developer. This growth could be threatened for all businesses if the impact fee rate gets too high. Again, my hope is they will work it out before July so the economy can continue to grow and keep our taxes low.

[John41]

Commissioners,

Why not sell tax free bonds to be paid over 10, 15 or 20 years and match debt payments with tax revenue from future home taxes?

Lowest rates in history

Perhaps refund last years tax increase.

Not to be confused with the bonds attached to homes.

Municipal Bond Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/municipalbond.asp)

What are municipal bonds and how are they used? | Tax Policy Center (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-municipal-bonds-and-how-are-they-used)

State and local governments issue bonds to pay for large, expensive, and long-lived capital projects, such as roads, bridges, airports, schools, hospitals, water treatment facilities, power plants, courthouses, and other public buildings. Although states and localities can and sometimes do pay for capital investments with current revenues, borrowing allows them to spread the costs across multiple generations. Future project users bear some of the cost through higher taxes or tolls, fares, and other charges that help service the debts.

States and localities issue short-term debt or notes to help smooth uneven cash flows (e.g., when tax revenues arrive in April but expenditures occur throughout the year). They also issue debt on behalf of private entities (e.g., to build projects with public benefit or for so-called public-private partnerships).

HOW LARGE IS THE MUNI BOND MARKET?

At the end of 2019, state and local governments had $3.85 trillion in debt outstanding (figure 1). About 98 percent of this debt was long term or with a maturity of 13 months or longer, while the remaining 2 percent was short term. As in most years, roughly 40 percent of municipal debt was issued by states and 60 percent by local governments.

Because the interest and sinking fund payments on those bonds would be paid by all residents unless those bonds were added to the principal of the CDD bonds for the new homeowners only.

[Northerner52]

Because the interest and sinking fund payments on those bonds would be paid by all residents unless those bonds were added to the principal of the CDD bonds for the new homeowners only.

The lowest rates in history would allow the cash flow to equalize to benefit everyone. Why pay for roads with cash and impact fees when these roads will generate money to pay the interest and principal for years to come.

[tjlee500]

Explain your specific reasons why you want to recall The Commissioners

[Rwirish]

The voters have spoken.

[dewilson58]

Still a better way to pay road impact fees
You are late to the game.
Suggested over a year ago.
Can not issue bonds for a tax refund as suggested in your post.

[airdale2]

The Villages left Lake county 20 years ago due to its $10,000 impact fee. Sumpter County had a very small one. SOOOOO

[Skunky1]

Developer took a minimaly taxed Cowfield and turned it into a cash cow for Sumter County. Buyers are already paying a hefty bond $34,000 plus or minus in addition to other annual fees over and above the cost of a house which is overpriced in the first place!

[hrenner]

You in cahoots with developer??

[Bridget Staunton]

Not us, we are happy with our new commissioners, they are just getting started. Remember first first job

[Fuzzy]

Who is up for a recall effort?

These 3 snuck in without people paying attention to their platform. It is insane to discourage infrastructure. Medical care is already difficult to receive due to a need for more facilities. Restaurants are needed as the number of residential property increases. These people are not working for the people. They are trying to destroy the pro business growth in our county. Elections have consequences and the people who live in this county will suffer because of these 3 people who are not from here to begin with. People better pay attention and get these 3 out next election. That’s the campaign that needs to begin now. They got in while no one was paying attention just recognized the names and checked the box. That was the plan. It worked. It proves paying attention to local elections matter folks. Wake up.

[Fuzzy]

Vote them out next election. The damage they will do is monumental.

[Fuzzy]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Don’t think we can but people best wake up and start educating others and start the campaign to get these non pro business people out next election. Most who live in this county didn’t realize what these outsiders were running on. Wake up people. Get the word out.

[GolfGirl122]

At last! At last we can have a discussion about issues and think that our concerns are being heard. With the previous commissioners, there was no discussion or concern with what the residents thought - only the developer. This is refreshing and may take some time to work out the details. Bottom line, I think most are concerned about uncontrolled growth and the issues that it brings. There is finally a Commission that will actually review future plans prior to approval, ok, let them do their job. The developer does not own the Commission anymore - there will be growing pains. I read previously, that all the growth brings jobs - but not careers. Very true. Think about it, do we keep on building just because it provides jobs? When does the building stop so we can exist as The Villages and establish businesses and jobs within The Villages. Possibly set up a stepped up system, where anything over 2000 homes, are charged a higher rate. Who knows, but at least now we can hear a discussion about our future rather than silence.

[Judy n Ron]

Quoted from the Daily Sun.

Yes 'The Daily Sun' which is nothing more than residents paying for the developer's personal infomercial. Ron.

[johnwwells3]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Not me they are doing what we asked them to -- put the cost of infrastructure on the builders.

[tonycirocco@me.com]

Right on, John.

[Stu from NYC]

Elections have consequences and the people who live in this county will suffer because of these 3 people who are not from here to begin with. .

How many people living in the Villages were from here to begin with? Bizarre statement.

[algi45]

Don't lump Miller with the two disappointments.

[Dantes]

Yes just like NewYork and California

[Pommom91]

Leave them alone, this is only just starting lets see how it ends. There is such a huge demand for businesses here that they will come no matter what the tax situation is and a few thousand extra for a home will not even be noticed by most buyers.

My thought exactly!

[Guitarman1951]

Who's up for being dumb!?!?

[gego3650]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Agree they are clowns, Spoke to one of them when they were running.He was complaining about the recent tax increase. I said what about the past 8 yrs where they had went down every year and even with raise my taxes were about the same as when I bought. He said that was not true which he was wrong.You know we are in trouble when you have people with unqualified people in office

[toeser]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Care to advance an argument as to why they should be recalled? In the absence of that, I'm willing to give them their term to perform.

[tonycirocco@me.com]

Well said, Golf Girl.

[Fuzzy]

A few thousand more would have changed my purchasing here in TV. Sure, I could have bought a smaller house but that would not have been satisfactory.

Agree with you. I would not have bought if I knew the county was going to place such a high cost on businesses that all would pull away from building and providing the infrastructure to support the number of residents. People who are nothing but jealous of others success want to impose their payback for success. Anyone who is not pro business needs to move to states that agree with their government over reach desires. Start the campaign to get these negative people out next election. Fooled people once. Don’t let it happen again.

[Fuzzy]

Perhaps the developer should slow down or stop developing if they cannot afford to do so. Please keep your sticky fingers out of our pockets. They build all this infrastructure way ahead long before they plant homes. There ripping up dirt now miles south and homes will not be build there for years. Does this seem smart?

What are you talking about? The developer offered to pay a large portion of the tax. If you don’t like the developer, why are you here? I don’t understand why people want to move to TV then complain about the developer. Move.

[Fuzzy]

So, this is not true?

It is accurate. Facts aren’t opinions.

[Laidlaw193]

They didn’t leave Lake County 20 yrs ago. They just built thousands of homes in Fruitland Park.

[argos5usa]

Former Democrats who ran as Republicans...News articles at the time pointed out that hundreds of Villager Democrats changed their voter registration to Republican just to vote for these guys in the Republican primary, intending to change their registration back for the general election.

[Bill14564]

What are you talking about? The developer offered to pay a large portion of the tax. If you don’t like the developer, why are you here? I don’t understand why people want to move to TV then complain about the developer. Move.

??? If you are referring to the 40% offer, the Developer offered to increase by less than half the impact fee that they are currently paying less than half of, and offered to do it on the portion of development that has the smallest fees.

Put another way, a 40% increase on 40% of the impact fee would raise their portion to 56% of the true impact as determined by the 2019(?) study. And, they would pay 56% on ONLY new development in the Villages, the 40% fee would still be frozen for homes outside the Villages and commercial property everywhere.

When the Developer lives up to the promises made concerning existing development he is very popular. When the Developer forgets his promises and then demands that the current Villages funds a large portion of the cost of the new development in order to keep prices down and profits up, he is less popular. I moved here for the lifestyle that exists here, not the lifestyle that might be created somewhere else using my tax money.

[Fuzzy]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1 rotfl:I am super happy with our new commissioners. They are working for the residents NOT the developer. Don’t get duped by the propaganda in the developer’s Daily Sun paper. There’s a reason the developer and his minions used dirty tricks so Democrats couldn’t vote his ‘yes boys’ out. He wanted to stay in complete control. The fake candidate scheme is currently being investigated. Despite the dirty tricks including the paper’s propaganda, we still managed to get rid of the ‘yes boys’. Now we have reps that work for US!

[mike bales]

Thank you for sharing.
Throw the bums out. The end result is that added taxes will be passed on to new residents and local busineses and workers will suffer

[Bill14564]

Former Democrats who ran as Republicans...News articles at the time pointed out that hundreds of Villager Democrats changed their voter registration to Republican just to vote for these guys in the Republican primary, intending to change their registration back for the general election.

Really need Paul Harvey here: News articles also point out that voters changed their registration after the fake candidates registered as write-in candidates for the general election thus blocking registered Democrats from participating in the primary election.

But that's old news, that bridge has been crossed. It's time for the new Commissioners to do their due diligence while remembering their promises and vote to impose fees and taxes that are in the best interest of all the county, not just the Villages and not just the developers.

[crash]

Thank you for sharing. I am not concerned about the cost of homes. It' the many thousands of dollars for a small business to open and hundreds of thousands for major developments to open. The County should be helping businesses not taxing them into another county or state. See how that is working for high tax states.

The impact fee is not a tax it is levied to build new roads. How many homes could be south of 44 if all the new roads were not put in. The developer should be paying for these not all the tax payers in the county.

[tophcfa]

These 3 snuck in without people paying attention to their platform. It is insane to discourage infrastructure. Medical care is already difficult to receive due to a need for more facilities. Restaurants are needed as the number of residential property increases. These people are not working for the people. They are trying to destroy the pro business growth in our county. Elections have consequences and the people who live in this county will suffer because of these 3 people who are not from here to begin with. People better pay attention and get these 3 out next election. That’s the campaign that needs to begin now. They got in while no one was paying attention just recognized the names and checked the box. That was the plan. It worked. It proves paying attention to local elections matter folks. Wake up.

Nobody SNUCK IN. The new commissioners were elected by about 2/3’s of the voters, despite great efforts taken against them. The voters recognized the need for an adequate system of checks and balances.

[diamond2005]

Ae these the ones?

Estep, a former state trooper who has never held public office before, campaigned on a stick-it-to-The-Villages-Developer platform, with Miller, a failed Democratic candidate for the 2018 House of Representatives race and Search, a retired educator who was elected on the Democratic ticket of a small Pennsylvania commission a decade ago.

The Developer’s Ghost writer,in action.

[Pairadocs]

Now that these inexperienced newbies are in office, they learned:


Board of County Commissioners' Mission Statement
Our mission is to provide the most efficient, effective, and responsive government that achieves economic growth, quality customer service, and a safe community for our citizens.


Whoops!!!!


#1 Economic Growth


Says nothing about tax levels.


Whoops!!!

Exactly woops ! Nothing about tax levels, fiscal responsibility ? Short term memory loss ?

[Jokomo]

Who is up for a recall effort?

5 pages of political posts here. Apparently started to support the Developer. I guess the rules don’t apply across the board.

[Villages Kahuna]

No. Give them time.

[Stu from NYC]

5 pages of political posts here. Apparently started to support the Developer. I guess the rules don’t apply across the board.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe political posts about local politicians are allowed.

Do wonder how many of the posters on this thread who are in favor of the developers position have a financial reason to do so? Not accusing just asking.

[bagboy]

No. Give them time.

That goes for hospital management, right? Give them time to improve.

[fastboat]

Thank you for sharing. I am not concerned about the cost of homes. It' the many thousands of dollars for a small business to open and hundreds of thousands for major developments to open. The County should be helping businesses not taxing them into another county or state. See how that is working for high tax states.

Sounds like talking points from the developer. Scare tactics without foundation. Just doesn't want to lose the sweetheart deal he had with his puppets. :boom:

[dewilson58]

The Developer’s Ghost writer,in action.


Bogie has been around a long time, known by many............not a Developer Ghost Writer.

[jjombrello]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Where do I line up for this. All three need to go. They're not interested in what happens to Sumter County. They only want to stick it to the developer. What a sick agenda. Without even evaluating what their plan will do to Sumter County residents, they plunge ahead with this outlandish plan to raise fees (taxes). Very poor management and planning. It appears they have not taken into account what will happen to businesses and future development and it appears that they don't care. Time to go before they do too much damage.

[fastboat]

Didn’t say go out of business, just shut it down for a few months. The developer has multiple lines of revenue and not all are related to building (obviously building is the largest). The point is this could be a game of chicken, and being a private company means they can do what they want. What do you think would happen if thousands and thousands of people working here were suddenly unemployed? The developer has a lot of power over the economy here and could make it very difficult for the commissioners if they wanted.

Many people think raising the impact fees will have no impact, I disagree because it is basic economics. The county has grown tremendously due to the developer. This growth could be threatened for all businesses if the impact fee rate gets too high. Again, my hope is they will work it out before July so the economy can continue to grow and keep our taxes low.

His retail spaces rent at Washington DC prices, that's what is closing up most of the small businesses during these rough times. He could give them a small break but the greed won't let'm.

[mneumann02]

Nobody SNUCK IN. The new commissioners were elected by about 2/3’s of the voters, despite great efforts taken against them. The voters recognized the need for an adequate system of checks and balances.

Too many posts here that defy logic. The pro-developer posts have failed to convince anyone why current homeowners should help pay for The Developer's developments. Their arguments defy logic. (Two posters said they would have bought elsewhere if the price of the home was $3,000 more! Really? I don't believe that.) Only answer could be they have a dog in this fight, e.g. one Poster has a total of 7 posts since he joined TOTV, and they are all in this string- pro-developer.

[dewilson58]

Too many posts here that defy logic. The pro-developer posts Only answer could be they have a dog in this fight,


I'm not pro-developer, I'm anti-stupid posts, anti-fake news, anti-developer haters with agendas. I have no dog.


No developer pays 100% of impacted county/city/state costs............no developer does, the taxpayer pays the balance of the costs.


City/County/State Leaders focus is GROWTH. If growth costs tax payer dollars, Leaders will spend tax dollars for growth & future tax revenues. This happens EVERY WHERE.


What defies logic are the people that voted for the new commissioners because they promised to reverse the 25% property tax increase. That's hilarious.

[zuidemab]

I believe most folks are very confused about how the County pays for things. And I believe the "reporting" is stating it in a very confusing way "on purpose".

I am not taking sides. I just would like to separate the facts into very simple concepts.

The County has a budget based on what it needs going forward. Sumter needs more fire stations, roads, all infrastructure, etc "BECAUSE" The Villages is "EXPANDING" at a rate that does not exist anywhere else.

In Texas, the Counties do not issue Building Permits unless the DEVELOPER pays for EVERYTHING as part of the deal. If the development is really big, the developer must pay for a new school, police stations, fire station, roads, underground utilities, etc.

But in Sumter, somehow the developer gets the County to pay for everything needed. And then the developer gets the home owner to take over the BOND that was used to actually build the developers site. So the Developer has figured out how to collect enormous profits and avoid the normal expenses others pay.

Sumter County has to get money from somewhere. It is confusing because it is also ironic. The Villages expands creating the need for jobs and businesses but doesn't pay the needed costs supplying police, fire, water, roads, utilities, etc.

Thank you for thoughtful comments. Who likes to pay more?? Well,, really no one. BUT, most of us live here not because this was the only house we could find nor the cheapest house but because it is a unique area in which to live. Replete with amenities. We pay and will pay because we can and because we want this life style. If not, there is still plenty of 'other' land in Florida which is cheaper. 'All This' costs money and there are no gifts for any of us. Home owners and businesses who enjoy this area will pay. Who else should?:icon_wink:

[stebooo]

Where I come from the developer also pays for everything. No bonds etc. Never have understood how they polled this off.

[kappy]

A few thousand more would have changed my purchasing here in TV. Sure, I could have bought a smaller house but that would not have been satisfactory.
Really? $1458 additional would have stopped you from purchasing in “America’s Friendliest Hometown? Where else can you find the beauty, recreation, and all the other amenities that we have in The Villages? That $1458 is easily made up by the lower taxes you would be paying every year. The paper estimated that on a $255, 700 home, the 2019 tax increase necessitated by the 25% tax increase instead of charging the developer 100% of the impact fee, amounts to $348 every year.

[dewilson58]

Really? $1458 additional would have stopped you
Re-read...................the poster said a few thousand. $1458 ain't even a couple thousand.

[zendog3]

The developer has done so much for us. All the while, he and his family live in tumbling down trailers in Wildwood. The owners of T&D, the construction contractors, and the other huge businesses struggle along on food stamps. It is awful what those "outsiders" want to do to our own.

If they do get away with it, I vote we hold a series of bake sales to help the "kids."

Jean Baptiste Colbert said: "The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing."

Hear this, the developer's interest is to pay the least amount of tax and have someone else pay it. In the past, he has been able to do that by promoting people who agree with him to taxing authority. Those days are over (at least for now.)

I am not deaf to pro-growth arguments, but road improvements are necessary because of development. The cost of improvments should be paid by those who profit from the development. Will, they pass most of the cost onto people who buy business and homes. Of course! And that will slow growth here. But, I do not want to pay that cost so the developer can continue to earn profits.

I would like to hear impartial arguments on the impact fee here as opposed to other places, but we will not get that in the Sun.

Wealthy people learned long ago that, of the ways to increase wealth, by far the most profitable investment is to get people favorable to your interest into public office where they will enact laws favorable to their enterprise.

[Joe V.]

Really? $1458 additional would have stopped you from purchasing in “America’s Friendliest Hometown? Where else can you find the beauty, recreation, and all the other amenities that we have in The Villages? That $1458 is easily made up by the lower taxes you would be paying every year. The paper estimated that on a $255, 700 home, the 2019 tax increase necessitated by the 25% tax increase instead of charging the developer 100% of the impact fee, amounts to $348 every year.

2000+ bucks over would have nixed the deal. I have lived by a budget my entire life and am disciplined in my spending. My wife and I set a specific price range. If it was 500 over we would have said no.

I was born and raised in FL and know all about the tax rates and of the beauty and amenities all of FL can provide. They are NOT all concentrated exclusively in The Villages. I also know the money we did spend here would buy a lot more home in places as attractive and enjoyable in other parts of FL. We choose here for now but always keep our options open.

As far as America's Friendliest Hometown goes. I always laugh when I hear this. Live in most any place in TX, other than Houston or Dallas, for a few years if you truly want to live in a friendly town.

[kappy]

My guess is the biggest fear TV has in regards to this possible increase is their 7,000,000 sq. ft. industrial park outside of Coleman, that might end up sitting there for quite a long time. The retail space that they have and are building will eventually fill up, they might have to subsidize a bit here and there but with all of the growth that is continuing in the southern villages they will fill it up. I would also guess that the commission will work with medical facilities as if they allow UF to walk away from the 400 acre facility there will be hell to pay.
Prior to any talk of impact fee increases, the new hospital was already scheduled to be built in Lake County. If any large company is interested in building in Sumter County, they could approach the Board and ask for a reduction or complete elimination of impact fees. As long as that company can show a benefit to the County, these reductions are usually granted. For instance, a Costco or Trader Joe’s would generate sales tax revenues and jobs to the County. The hospital could have asked for the elimination of the impact fees since they would be serving the community with medical services and they would be producing jobs.

[rockyhyder]

Now that these inexperienced newbies are in office, they learned:


Board of County Commissioners' Mission Statement
Our mission is to provide the most efficient, effective, and responsive government that achieves economic growth, quality customer service, and a safe community for our citizens.


Whoops!!!!


#1 Economic Growth


Says nothing about tax levels.


Whoops!!!
This is what happens when you elect people who tickle your ears with nice words but have NO CLUE how to run County government and the complexities thereof.

[donassaid]

Let's not forget that the prior Commissioners forced thru a 25% tax hike in the middle of decades of economic development (housing, retail, manufacturing and Services businesses, etc. that should have been producing surpluses, not deficits. The reason? Because the Developers decided to no longer pay the impact fees which fund the roads for their new development. Passing these costs on to all taxpayers in Sumter County in the form of a 25% tax increase is eminently unfair. Precisely why the 3 new Commissioners won election in a landslide over the 3 incumbents in spite of the substantial financial backing of the Developers and the Republican Committee. The impact fees should not be passed on to potential businesses, hospitals or homeowners but should be borne by the Developers who stand to profit the most.

[Papa_lecki]

Hear this, the developer's interest is to pay the least amount of tax and have someone else pay it. In the past, he has been able to do that by promoting people who agree with him to taxing authority. Those days are over (at least for now.)

Isn’t everybody’s interest to pay the least amount of tax?

[charlie1]

My concern about the new commissioners has always been that they ran their campaign totally on the emotional issue of The Villages "sweet deal"! They did not campaign the things that they could do that would benefit all the residents of the Villages or Sumter County. This was wrong but people fell for it! Right now, they do not have the information to see the long term impact of their decisions and, therefore should not make any hasty decision. WE NEED ALL THE FACTS! I do believe all new housing impact fees (not just The Villages) should be in line with the average for the state (Not the HIGHEST!) However, I do know, after being a retail exec most of my life, that increasing substantially the impact fees for business will drive business away from Sumter County. Sure, maybe the deep pockets of some large retailers will ante up, but the smaller retailers and locally owned business may not be able to afford the increased fees. This is a HUGE issue for anyone that would like more businesses/medical options AND want to see Sumter County thrive!

I strongly suggest that everyone demand the commissioners hire an UNBIASED group to find the facts, The commissioners and all the residents really need to understand the impact of the fees before ANY decisions are made. Take emotions OUT of the equation! (Which seems to be driving the decision right now!) Let's get this right for the people that live here! Let’s not have a repeat of the mess caused by not having or sharing all the information when the taxes were increased last year!

[Ruggiero56]

No recall needed. Glad they won and got the others out of office. I’d give them a chance to show us they’re working for us.

[The Mountaineer]

Breeden is one of the developer puppets as is Gilpin. You had your chance in last election so grow up and accept your overwhelming loss.

You live with the results in a democracy.

[LianneMigiano]

Leave them alone, this is only just starting lets see how it ends. There is such a huge demand for businesses here that they will come no matter what the tax situation is and a few thousand extra for a home will not even be noticed by most buyers.What most people are not even aware of - or don't care about - is that every business writes off every single little expense when it comes to tax time. Many of them pay less in taxes than you and I do!!! Can you write off your electric bill, your gas bill, your vehicle payments and expenses, your property maintenance costs etc. etc. etc.???? They can - AND DO.

[Fuzzy]

Won’t get re-elected once the damage they impose shows itself. Punishing businesses ultimately punishes residents. They snuck in. Most people living here are for free markets and small government. Other counties are becoming business friendly. When this area does not have the infrastructure to support the residents, not far from that now, property value drops and those who voted for this platform can pat themselves on the back and say, how’d that work out? Ignorant platform.

[Fuzzy]

What most people are not even aware of - or don't care about - is that every business writes off every single little expense when it comes to tax time. Many of them pay less in taxes than you and I do!!! Can you write off your electric bill, your gas bill, your vehicle payments and expenses, your property maintenance costs etc. etc. etc.???? They can - AND DO.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JSR22]

Won’t get re-elected once the damage they impose shows itself. Punishing businesses ultimately punishes residents. They snuck in. Most people living here are for free markets and small government. Other counties are becoming business friendly. When this area does not have the infrastructure to support the residents, not far from that now, property value drops and those who voted for this platform can pat themselves on the back and say, how’d that work out? Ignorant platform.

They did NOT sneak in they won by a landslide. The next one out is Puppet Gilpin.

[Fuzzy]

:1rotfl:You live with the results in a democracy.

Republic.

[dewilson58]

What most people are not even aware of - or don't care about - is that every business writes off every single little expense when it comes to tax time. Many of them pay less in taxes than you and I do!!! Can you write off your electric bill, your gas bill, your vehicle payments and expenses, your property maintenance costs etc. etc. etc.???? They can - AND DO.
You have posted this before.
Most people know businesses write off costs.
Most people know if they don't, their products cost more.
Most understand there is no such thing as a business tax.


Please educate yourself.

[Fuzzy]

No recall needed. Glad they won and got the others out of office. I’d give them a chance to show us they’re working for us.
If you don’t need a job, a doctor, a restaurant or any other business, they are certainly working for you. :welcome::welcome:

[Fuzzy]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1 rotfl:

This was the poorest county in Florida before the developer. :boom:

[Fuzzy]

They did NOT sneak in they won by a landslide. The next one out is Puppet Gilpin.

Actually proves my point. Name recognition. People just checked the familiar names. People will regret that.

[Fuzzy]

Now that these inexperienced newbies are in office, they learned:


Board of County Commissioners' Mission Statement
Our mission is to provide the most efficient, effective, and responsive government that achieves economic growth, quality customer service, and a safe community for our citizens.


Whoops!!!!




#1 Economic Growth


Says nothing about tax levels.


Whoops!!!

We will suffer this mistake. I didn’t vote for them. I knew they were trouble.

[Fuzzy]

Yes it does seem smart. Economic development.

[dewilson58]

We will suffer this mistake. I didn’t vote for them. I knew they were trouble.
Well the trio hit it just right.......No experience, A hot topic, and A promise with no plan. Voters did not ask "How?", so the votes rolled in. :clap2:

[j_vermilya]

I totally support the new commissioners...they will come through.

[Bogie Shooter]

This is what happens when you elect people who tickle your ears with nice words but have NO CLUE how to run County government and the complexities thereof.

Well the trio hit it just right.......No experience, A hot topic, and A promise with no plan. Voters did not ask "How?", so the votes rolled in. :clap2:


Estep, a former state trooper who has never held public office before, campaigned on a stick-it-to-The-Villages-Developer platform, with Miller, a failed Democratic candidate for the 2018 House of Representatives race and Search, a retired educator who was elected on the Democratic ticket of a small Pennsylvania commission a decade ago.

[Stu from NYC]

Estep, a former state trooper who has never held public office before, campaigned on a stick-it-to-The-Villages-Developer platform, with Miller, a failed Democratic candidate for the 2018 House of Representatives race and Search, a retired educator who was elected on the Democratic ticket of a small Pennsylvania commission a decade ago.

The three former commissioners seemed to have no interest in the opinions of the people that had elected them.

For the developer they had lots of interest.

[Aloha1]

Leave them alone, this is only just starting lets see how it ends. There is such a huge demand for businesses here that they will come no matter what the tax situation is and a few thousand extra for a home will not even be noticed by most buyers.

This will end badly.

[Aloha1]

So, this is not true?
Of course it's true. Some just refuse to see it.

[Aloha1]

His retail spaces rent at Washington DC prices, that's what is closing up most of the small businesses during these rough times. He could give them a small break but the greed won't let'm.

Please provide proof to back up this statement. A proposed lease copy? An actual lease? Without proof your comment is moot.

[Dilligas]

It blows my mind when I read how people move to TV from other areas (obviously because they like the lifestyle, the physical structure and infastructure, and they could afford it) then they want to change The Villages (many times to something they experienced 'back home'). I get sick when I read comments with the word "greedy developer" in them. All people work to make money or profit. All businesses require profit. Successful business like TV make larger profits, because their investment is larger. Our developing family has perpetuated a vision, and improved upon that vision for the past 40 years. If they were like other developers, they would have built, then closed shop and turned everything over to the residents......who invariably mess it up and destroy a good thing (Sun City Center, Florida, a Del Webb development is a prime example). If you don't like what you thought you were moving to.....find another development that meets your needs.....don't try to change TV. Sumter county taxes remain in the lower level of Florida taxes (even after the 25 % increase). The 25% increase generally only applied to the newbies and part timers...as older resident's homestead kept their increases to under 10% (and less than 3% over 10 years).

[Aloha1]

It blows my mind when I read how people move to TV from other areas (obviously because they like the lifestyle, the physical structure and infastructure, and they could afford it) then they want to change The Villages (many times to something they experienced 'back home'). I get sick when I read comments with the word "greedy developer" in them. All people work to make money or profit. All businesses require profit. Successful business like TV make larger profits, because their investment is larger. Our developing family has perpetuated a vision, and improved upon that vision for the past 40 years. If they were like other developers, they would have built, then closed shop and turned everything over to the residents......who invariably mess it up and destroy a good thing (Sun City Center, Florida, a Del Webb development is a prime example). If you don't like what you thought you were moving to.....find another development that meets your needs.....don't try to change TV. Sumter county taxes remain in the lower level of Florida taxes (even after the 25 % increase). The 25% increase generally only applied to the newbies and part timers...as older resident's homestead kept their increases to under 10% (and less than 3% over 10 years).

There you go posting truth. Don't you know truth and reason were never part of the new Commissioner's agenda nor of interest to those who voted for them. You must be a "puppet of the Developer".

[Bill14564]

Please provide proof to back up this statement. A proposed lease copy? An actual lease? Without proof your comment is moot.

If that is the standard then there are a LOT of moot comments here.

[Bill14564]

It blows my mind when I read how people move to TV from other areas (obviously because they like the lifestyle, the physical structure and infastructure, and they could afford it) then they want to change The Villages (many times to something they experienced 'back home'). I get sick when I read comments with the word "greedy developer" in them. All people work to make money or profit. All businesses require profit. Successful business like TV make larger profits, because their investment is larger. Our developing family has perpetuated a vision, and improved upon that vision for the past 40 years. If they were like other developers, they would have built, then closed shop and turned everything over to the residents......who invariably mess it up and destroy a good thing (Sun City Center, Florida, a Del Webb development is a prime example). If you don't like what you thought you were moving to.....find another development that meets your needs.....don't try to change TV. Sumter county taxes remain in the lower level of Florida taxes (even after the 25 % increase). The 25% increase generally only applied to the newbies and part timers...as older resident's homestead kept their increases to under 10% (and less than 3% over 10 years).

Interesting. You start off arguing that people shouldn't want change then argue that change is what makes Sumter county successful. Some might argue that the 25% increase was a bit of a change over what they thought they were moving into.

Older resident's homestead caps tax increases? I'll have to look into that again, I didn't see that in the random tax records I looked at when arguing about the tax increase last year.

[shopnstop]

:bigbow:Who is up for a recall effort?

[Vernon Hud]

The only people that want to expand homesites and business south of 44 is The Villages developer. When we bought here in 2007, we were told The Villages would end with approximately 110,000 to 115,000 residents. I am sure if Gary Morse had lived, there would be no more building South of 44. I don't understand why they just didn't start a new development, instead trying to link both sides of 44. But no, they built homes, hardly any golf courses, 1 restaurant, no shopping areas, until they got so much crap about it, they had to change and finally started a shopping plaza, and a few more so called golf venues. Hopefully, they will have a few more restaurants there so they can get rid of the food trucks, not very good planning. Can you imagine how it is going to be over here north of 44 when all the bridges open up. It is hard to get a tee time now, just wait. I hope the new commissioners stick it to them, make them pay. But knowing them, they will find some way around it to keep there profits high. Let the new commissioners do their job.

[Northwoods]

The new commissioners need to figure out how to work and negotiate WITH The Developer. This anti-developer attitude is just juvenile to me. Try to negotiate the best outcome for Sumter County.

[Coal Miner]

They are doing great. Dont believe the Developers propaganda.

[tjlee500]

Please state exactly what they have done/not done to have a recall. These guys are new

[J1ceasar]

There is no need to negotiate. They are the commissioners they can make decisions on their own the developer will build houses no matter what the tax structure is even if it's 100% of the sale price for infrastructure because people are coming down and want the villages whether he sells 100 more or 100 less homes next year does not matter. Don't you guys get it he's just a constituent

[DanBrew]

So you can't be in politics unless you are a politician? Whenever I go to the voting booth, I never vote for the person that is promising to do anything for me. I vote for the one who promises not to do anything to me. Always remember there is but one thing that creates bureaucracies and that is bureaucrats.

[dewilson58]

I am sure if Gary Morse had lived, there would be no more building South of 44.
Wrong.

[Dantes]

Few thousand dollars can keep someone from owning a home I love it. people run from New York and California to get away from the laws and taxes, come here and want to go the same to Florida one day there will be no place to run then what !

[coconutmama]

Leave them alone, this is only just starting lets see how it ends. There is such a huge demand for businesses here that they will come no matter what the tax situation is and a few thousand extra for a home will not even be noticed by most buyers.

Totally agree. New buyers are already willing to pay higher prices. Residents who have been here on fixed incomes need a break from the escalating taxes.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

State your reasons Why?

[sullinr]

Is it just me or does it seem that the Daily Sun is conducting a witchhunt on our commissioners?

[donassaid]

Not me. I think they should be gi en a commendation.

[Burgy]

The millions of dollars worth of Mack trucks south of 44 speak for themselves. Why the rush to grow?

[Stu from NYC]

Is it just me or does it seem that the Daily Sun is conducting a witchhunt on our commissioners?

When the developer tells them to jump the only question they ask is how high.

Guy runs for office once and loses and they keep saying it was a failure.

[Advogado]

Is it just me or does it seem that the Daily Sun is conducting a witchhunt on our commissioners?
It is not just you. Every one of the Daily Sun's anti-fair-impact-fee articles and personal attacks on the new Commissioners is written by the Developer's Minister of Propaganda, David R. Corder. His latest attack even goes after the wife of one of the Commissioners for speaking her mind. Mr. Corder seems to have forgotten the journalistic code of ethics: SPJ Code of Ethics - Society of Professional Journalists (https://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp)

It is time for the new Commissioners (the EMS Team) to ignore the bull being shoveled by the Developer in his so-called newspaper and through his puppets Gilpin and Breeden and to do what the EMS Team was elected to do: Roll back the massive 25% property-tax hike by enacting reasonable impact fees!

[guitarguy]

Taxes and governmental fees are a cost of doing business just like electricity, employee wages, and utilities. A tax increase, increase of the minimum wage, higher electrical costs, or even increased workman’s comp insurance all will affect the bottom line of a business. They will be passed on to the consumer. That is simple economics. Efficient businesses will flourish. But there is no doubt it will impact the decision to start or expand a business.
Reading many of the previous post convinces one that Our education system failed in the teaching of basic economics.

[merrymini]

Let’s see how it plays out. There is always another election.

[dadoiron]

Who is up for a recall effort?

I'd give them more time for now and vote different if they don't keep their promises.

[cbstac]

It seems like those commissioners are a complete fraud. They ran as Republicans, but at least two have been active Democrat's and never announced they had "changed" parties. They ran against a tax increase to be imposed upon existing property owners to finance further housing development, but now propose tax increases which will retard business development and jobs. There has not been a coherent explanation why additional taxes are needed '

[Advogado]

It seems like those commissioners are a complete fraud. They ran as Republicans, but at least two have been active Democrat's and never announced they had "changed" parties. They ran against a tax increase to be imposed upon existing property owners to finance further housing development, but now propose tax increases which will retard business development and jobs. There has not been a coherent explanation why additional taxes are needed '
Fact Check: The only ex-Democrat on the EMS Team is Miller, and he like many voters, has changed parties from time to time. More importantly, he is the one member of the EMS Team who has been doing everything he can to roll back our taxes by ending the Developer's sweetheart deal on impact fees. All three members of the EMS Team were overwhelming elected by REPUBLICAN voters in the Republican primary/general election last year.

As to the "additional taxes" to which you refer: Despite the lies in the Daily Sun, nobody is proposing additional taxes. What the EMS Team ran on was a promise to SHIFT taxes away from existing residents and put new county infrastructure costs where they belong-- on the Developer, whose massive expansion of The Villages is necessitating those costs.

[Advogado]

Who is up for a recall effort?

Fact check: You can't recall Sumter County Commissioners.

Question: Why, in the world, did you omit Developer's puppet Gilpin (with his inherent conflict of interest since he works for T&D, a major supplier of the Developer) from your list of Commissioners whom you would like to recall? Developer puppets Gilpin and Breeden are the two Commissioners who should be recalled, and probably would be, if a recall were possible. They will almost certainly be voted out of office next year, if last year's election is any indication of voter revulsion at the way the County Commission has kowtowed to the Developer in the past.

[Dantes]

Yes count me in

[jrandall]

Leave them alone, this is only just starting lets see how it ends. There is such a huge demand for businesses here that they will come no matter what the tax situation is and a few thousand extra for a home will not even be noticed by most buyers.
I disagree. I have lived in Florida for 47 years. The road we are headed down with the new Commissioners is dangerous and will end up costing all of us much more than the increased property tax that was applied. I served 18 years in Broward County Local Government and 12 years in Miami-Dade County. I am definitely concerned with what is being proposed by the new Commissioners. I did not vote for them because they had little or no experience running local Government and I fear that they will not understand the negative ramifications of enacting these gross increases in Impact Fees. Why would we even be entertaining this when so many are hurting from the Pandemic. This will surely hurt Sumter County Citizens in the long run.

[jrandall]

I am hopeful the developer and at least 3 of the county commissioners can come to some agreement before July. If that doesn’t happen then this can turn into a big game of chicken to see who blinks first. The developer holds a very big hammer and if they decide to shut it all down for a few months the economy here would be devastated. You can say that will never happen but you never know. The Villages development is privately owned and they can do whatever they want. If that happens you will all be screaming for recall of the commissioners as all of our tax rates would skyrocket. Go off the cliff like Thelma and Louise with Miller leading the way, but there could be significant consequences.

Totally agree

[Raton270]

I am and all my neighbors. We also need to get rid of the slanted POA that we support with our subscriptions

[Northwoods]

Is it just me or does it seem that the Daily Sun is conducting a witchhunt on our commissioners?

If you are on any of the Sumter County or Oren Miller Facebook pages, you will see a constant "witch hunt" of comments. If you read "that other online newspaper" you will see a witch hunt of comments. Now... you're just hearing the other side.
You can decide what you want to believe.

[Velvet]

Thank you for sharing. I am not concerned about the cost of homes.

There’s the rub.