Sunshine Law? We don't need no stinking Sunshine Law!

[Number 10 GI]

In the Daily Sun is an article on a violation of the state's Sunshine Law, and actually is the second violation by one of these newly elected County Commissioners. One of those elected on the platform that they were going to correct the ills of the crony corrupt system. Seems Oren Miller's wife has been acting as a go between for him and other commissioners in regards to county business. Clear violation of the Sunshine Law. I've never held public office and I know what the Sunshine Law is all about, doesn't take a constitutional expert.
The topic was about forming an animal advocacy group, which happened 6 days before the proposal was aired publicly in a county meeting. A clear violation of the law. At the public meeting Miller proposed the formation of an animal advocacy group comprised by his wife, at least 2 of her personal friends and Gary Search to "mediate" their work. I wonder, are these paid positions? Will there be a budget for this advocacy group will this group will be allowed to use the funds where they determine it is necessary?
This couple in 2018 was also fined $642 for violation of campaign finance laws for his failed campaign for state representative, where his wife was the treasurer for the campaign.
The only reasons I can come up with for these innocent mistakes as Miller called them, is stupidity, gross ignorance, arrogance or willful illegal behavior.

[John41]

Glad we cancelled the Daily Pravda.

[Stu from NYC]

In the Daily Sun is an article on a violation of the state's Sunshine Law, and actually is the second violation by one of these newly elected County Commissioners. One of those elected on the platform that they were going to correct the ills of the crony corrupt system. Seems Oren Miller's wife has been acting as a go between for him and other commissioners in regards to county business. Clear violation of the Sunshine Law. I've never held public office and I know what the Sunshine Law is all about, doesn't take a constitutional expert.
The topic was about forming an animal advocacy group, which happened 6 days before the proposal was aired publicly in a county meeting. A clear violation of the law. At the public meeting Miller proposed the formation of an animal advocacy group comprised by his wife, at least 2 of her personal friends and Gary Search to "mediate" their work. I wonder, are these paid positions? Will there be a budget for this advocacy group will this group will be allowed to use the funds where they determine it is necessary?
This couple in 2018 was also fined $642 for violation of campaign finance laws for his failed campaign for state representative, where his wife was the treasurer for the campaign.
The only reasons I can come up with for these innocent mistakes as Miller called them, is stupidity, gross ignorance, arrogance or willful illegal behavior.

They sure devoted a lot of ink to this story. Tomorrow's headline will be one of the new commissioners was jaywalking

[gatorbill1]

Chill out - life is too short

[Bogie Shooter]

They sure devoted a lot of ink to this story. Tomorrow's headline will be one of the new commissioners was jaywalking

Hard to compare jaywalking to breaking the Sunshine Law.
Just in over their heads.........

[Mleeja]

The local elected leaders take this stuff very seriously! I was at an event and was talking to an AAC board member about something within the AAC’s purview. They asked that we move a few feet to discuss the topic because there was another AAC member within earshot. They did not want a possible Sunshine Law violation!

If the new commissioners think they can get around the Sunshine Law by using someone as a communications conduit, they should be exposed, reported on, and if necessary, fined.

Makes you wonder what other back room deals they are cooking up?

[Number 10 GI]

It's hard when your messiahs are shown to be sinners.

[justjim]

Just politics as usual.

[Number 10 GI]

Just politics as usual.

Yes it is, but it doesn't mean it is right and that we should just accept the "it is what it is" excuse. It is actions like this that cause so many people to view politicians and politics with such disdain and distrust.

[eyc234]

Hey but think about the great animal shelter that will get built with a huge staff and board to be paid with tax money. He should be out and that is it. He was told to stop and he did not. Seems to be an ongoing dishonesty of one of the commissioners.

[Northwoods]

I have no issue with a no-kill animal shelter, but you have to go about it in the right way. Oren needs to follow the rules.

Oren's wife is very vocal on a few FaceBook sites where she is the Admin. I've always felt that, as a commissioner's wife, she needs to let her husband speak for himself.

Angie "sticks it to The Developer" and stirs the pot on Facebook every chance she gets. So if you think The Daily Sun is unfairly calling out Oren and his wife. Trust me... if you are on any of their Facebook groups, Angie has gone after The Developer on numerous occasions. She's been poking that bear for months... Guess the bear just woke up.

[Buffalo Jim]

It might appear that he is answering to a " higher power " .

[J1ceasar]

Now that the shoe is on the other foot we'll see a few quick idiotic actions and orange wife requests but nothing like the 50 million grab of last year from the taxpayers instead of the new buyers that's exactly what it was 50 million dollars just look at the budget. I would prefer a million dollar animal shelter over a 50 million dollar land grab any day and I don't really care whether it's a sunshine Law problem or not. Yesterday I read a ridiculous opinion piece in a certain newspaper that you just knew was out right lies. They basically said all construction and businesses would stop due to the infrastructure being taxed being raised. The funny thing is the tax equals about 1% of a new home price or a 1,000 to $2,000. Whereas home values are going up that much anyway three to four percent per year and he's worried that $3,000 on a $300,000 house would stop too many people from buying which is ridiculous you're talking about three bucks a month on a mortgage

[angiefox10]

You know you are doing good work and the right thing when the developer-owned “newspaper” continually tries to discredit you, even if it means bashing your spouse.

There are various and assorted threats to file ethics complaints against Commissioner Oren Miller for conversations his wife (a resident and voter in Sumter County) has had with elected officials. They seem to be taking the position that spouses of elected officials waive their right to communicate with elected officials, or to advocate for issues near and dear to their hearts.

Do spouses lose their rights after a successful campaign? Are they going to harass Commissioner Oren Miller straight through his term and into the next, if he chooses to run?

They even tossed in the fine that was paid in 2018. Yes, I missed filing date. It was my fault and as soon as I realized it I sent in the filing and paid the fine. I venture to guess I am not the first person to miss a date.

The real question here is why is the County Administrator and other County Commissioners spending so much time, energy and resources on going after the one Commissioner who has consistently stuck to his pledge to represent the people in the County, and not the Developer? And at what point does this harassment become actionable?

[crash]

The local elected leaders take this stuff very seriously! I was at an event and was talking to an AAC board member about something within the AAC’s purview. They asked that we move a few feet to discuss the topic because there was another AAC member within earshot. They did not want a possible Sunshine Law violation!

If the new commissioners think they can get around the Sunshine Law by using someone as a communications conduit, they should be exposed, reported on, and if necessary, fined.

Makes you wonder what other back room deals they are cooking up?

Yea like cutting our taxes. Just a joke the spin the paper puts on trying to not get the impact fee raised. There would be no development without the new roads and the developer should pay for them.

[Kgcetm]

We hired them and can and will fire them. We don’t want the office of County Commissioner to become a small pond for breeding fish wanting to move to the filthy cesspool in Washington DC.

[Guitarman1951]

Much todo about nothing is what my thought is. The more important issue were the animals they are trying to help.

[Jokomo]

In the Daily Sun is an article on a violation of the state's Sunshine Law, and actually is the second violation by one of these newly elected County Commissioners. One of those elected on the platform that they were going to correct the ills of the crony corrupt system. Seems Oren Miller's wife has been acting as a go between for him and other commissioners in regards to county business. Clear violation of the Sunshine Law. I've never held public office and I know what the Sunshine Law is all about, doesn't take a constitutional expert.
The topic was about forming an animal advocacy group, which happened 6 days before the proposal was aired publicly in a county meeting. A clear violation of the law. At the public meeting Miller proposed the formation of an animal advocacy group comprised by his wife, at least 2 of her personal friends and Gary Search to "mediate" their work. I wonder, are these paid positions? Will there be a budget for this advocacy group will this group will be allowed to use the funds where they determine it is necessary?
This couple in 2018 was also fined $642 for violation of campaign finance laws for his failed campaign for state representative, where his wife was the treasurer for the campaign.
The only reasons I can come up with for these innocent mistakes as Miller called them, is stupidity, gross ignorance, arrogance or willful illegal behavior.

This story illustrates one of the truisms I learned during a very public career:
Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel.

[Girlcopper]

In the Daily Sun is an article on a violation of the state's Sunshine Law, and actually is the second violation by one of these newly elected County Commissioners. One of those elected on the platform that they were going to correct the ills of the crony corrupt system. Seems Oren Miller's wife has been acting as a go between for him and other commissioners in regards to county business. Clear violation of the Sunshine Law. I've never held public office and I know what the Sunshine Law is all about, doesn't take a constitutional expert.
The topic was about forming an animal advocacy group, which happened 6 days before the proposal was aired publicly in a county meeting. A clear violation of the law. At the public meeting Miller proposed the formation of an animal advocacy group comprised by his wife, at least 2 of her personal friends and Gary Search to "mediate" their work. I wonder, are these paid positions? Will there be a budget for this advocacy group will this group will be allowed to use the funds where they determine it is necessary?
This couple in 2018 was also fined $642 for violation of campaign finance laws for his failed campaign for state representative, where his wife was the treasurer for the campaign.
The only reasons I can come up with for these innocent mistakes as Miller called them, is stupidity, gross ignorance, arrogance or willful illegal behavior.
Ok. So, The Daily Sun wasted space printing this litany. And no we are subjected to having wasted space here

[Dilligas]

Just politics as usual.
How are they any different than those they replaced?

[PugMom]

Much todo about nothing is what my thought is. The more important issue were the animals they are trying to help.

agreed, what happens to the animals who need us?

[rmd2]

In the Daily Sun is an article on a violation of the state's Sunshine Law, and actually is the second violation by one of these newly elected County Commissioners. One of those elected on the platform that they were going to correct the ills of the crony corrupt system. Seems Oren Miller's wife has been acting as a go between for him and other commissioners in regards to county business. Clear violation of the Sunshine Law. I've never held public office and I know what the Sunshine Law is all about, doesn't take a constitutional expert.
The topic was about forming an animal advocacy group, which happened 6 days before the proposal was aired publicly in a county meeting. A clear violation of the law. At the public meeting Miller proposed the formation of an animal advocacy group comprised by his wife, at least 2 of her personal friends and Gary Search to "mediate" their work. I wonder, are these paid positions? Will there be a budget for this advocacy group will this group will be allowed to use the funds where they determine it is necessary?
This couple in 2018 was also fined $642 for violation of campaign finance laws for his failed campaign for state representative, where his wife was the treasurer for the campaign.
The only reasons I can come up with for these innocent mistakes as Miller called them, is stupidity, gross ignorance, arrogance or willful illegal behavior.

This is not what we need - someone with their personal "pet project". That is not what I voted for.

[diamond2005]

In the Daily Sun is an article on a violation of the state's Sunshine Law, and actually is the second violation by one of these newly elected County Commissioners. One of those elected on the platform that they were going to correct the ills of the crony corrupt system. Seems Oren Miller's wife has been acting as a go between for him and other commissioners in regards to county business. Clear violation of the Sunshine Law. I've never held public office and I know what the Sunshine Law is all about, doesn't take a constitutional expert.
The topic was about forming an animal advocacy group, which happened 6 days before the proposal was aired publicly in a county meeting. A clear violation of the law. At the public meeting Miller proposed the formation of an animal advocacy group comprised by his wife, at least 2 of her personal friends and Gary Search to "mediate" their work. I wonder, are these paid positions? Will there be a budget for this advocacy group will this group will be allowed to use the funds where they determine it is necessary?
This couple in 2018 was also fined $642 for violation of campaign finance laws for his failed campaign for state representative, where his wife was the treasurer for the campaign.
The only reasons I can come up with for these innocent mistakes as Miller called them, is stupidity, gross ignorance, arrogance or willful illegal behavior.

Ah, The Developer at work!

[Stu from NYC]

Ok. So, The Daily Sun wasted space printing this litany. And no we are subjected to having wasted space here

Lots of posts that I have no interest in so I just scroll by.

[Bogie Shooter]

In the Daily Sun is an article on a violation of the state's Sunshine Law, and actually is the second violation by one of these newly elected County Commissioners. One of those elected on the platform that they were going to correct the ills of the crony corrupt system. Seems Oren Miller's wife has been acting as a go between for him and other commissioners in regards to county business. Clear violation of the Sunshine Law. I've never held public office and I know what the Sunshine Law is all about, doesn't take a constitutional expert.
The topic was about forming an animal advocacy group, which happened 6 days before the proposal was aired publicly in a county meeting. A clear violation of the law. At the public meeting Miller proposed the formation of an animal advocacy group comprised by his wife, at least 2 of her personal friends and Gary Search to "mediate" their work. I wonder, are these paid positions? Will there be a budget for this advocacy group will this group will be allowed to use the funds where they determine it is necessary?
This couple in 2018 was also fined $642 for violation of campaign finance laws for his failed campaign for state representative, where his wife was the treasurer for the campaign.
The only reasons I can come up with for these innocent mistakes as Miller called them, is stupidity, gross ignorance, arrogance or willful illegal behavior.

Ah, The Developer at work!

Truth is hard to explain away.........

[Cheryl Barrios]

Hey but think about the great animal shelter that will get built with a huge staff and board to be paid with tax money. He should be out and that is it. He was told to stop and he did not. Seems to be an ongoing dishonesty of one of the commissioners.

In my county up north, there were so many violations that the county was considered the most corrupt in the state. It took years to get it cleaned out and was just done so when there was so much criticism and someone was able to convince a local tv station to take notice that two of the commissioners decided not to run again. The state ordered an audit, the county refused, legal mumbo-jumbo, millions of dollars lost or spent on pet projects with kickbacks, it was unbelievable. It may seem like a little issue that involves paying a wife and a couple of her best friends to do something that many would do for free -- but it isn't. It starts out small, they find out what they can get away with, and then it GROWS.

[collie1228]

If you don't like the way the Daily Sun is owned, operated and editorially directed by the developer, you should cancel your subscription. Yes, he buys ink "by the barrel", but if he gets a hit in the pocketbook, he will change his tune. But unfortunately, that will never happen.

[Cheryl Barrios]

This is not what we need - someone with their personal "pet project". That is not what I voted for.

Agreed. She can certainly have a project and go out and solicit donations to fund it. People do it all over the country, actually throughout the world. But she doesn't want to work on her "pet project", she wants to be hired to run it and pay others to do all of the work.

[DougandLaddi]

Kick backs and or favors from contractors are strong incentive towards corruption.

[donassaid]

As a former County Supervisor in Virginia, we had a similar rule but not nearly as strict. With 5 Board Members, the only thing forbidden was if we had a quorum when we met, meaning that any two of us could get together and discuss issues without a public hearing. I think that is a more reasonable position than our "Sunshine laws" that, apparently forbid any personal contact between Commissioners to discuss issues before the Board. However, if that is the law, our Commissioners should abide by it and not try to circumnavigate it. I just wonder if the previous Commissioners got away with private meetings between themselves and/or the Developer.

[Stu from NYC]

As a former County Supervisor in Virginia, we had a similar rule but not nearly as strict. With 5 Board Members, the only thing forbidden was if we had a quorum when we met, meaning that any two of us could get together and discuss issues without a public hearing. I think that is a more reasonable position than our "Sunshine laws" that, apparently forbid any personal contact between Commissioners to discuss issues before the Board. However, if that is the law, our Commissioners should abide by it and not try to circumnavigate it. I just wonder if the previous Commissioners got away with private meetings between themselves and/or the Developer.

I would be surprised if the former commissioners did not have private meetings with the Developer. But of course that was not in the article.

[stebooo]

What is the sunshine law? Attempting to control the sunshine in florida??? Animal advocacy??

[Number 10 GI]

You don't make all kinds of promises to be the second coming of Jesus and then start screwing up right out of the starting gate doing the same things you accused your predecessor of doing. Isn't that called hypocrisy?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The amount of corruption, both petty and significant, in today's world is astounding, and this is my observation of penalties and actions against large individuals and companies. This is not a belief of never has been corruption, that is a black and white interpretation which is not my belief. I have seen it in foreign countries in my teens. . . It is my observation that its more blatant with social media, and there are less incarceration penalties after conviction. Especially with corporations where penalties are paid with company cash, which belongs to the shareholder, and trusted to management. Even egregious convictions seldom bar the person from the industry, but left up to the public to find the disreputable people in the public disclosures. .

ethical guy

[Bill14564]

What is the sunshine law? Attempting to control the sunshine in florida??? Animal advocacy??

Assuming this is a serious question, Google is your friend:
Florida Attorney General page on Sunshine Law (https://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/321B47083D80C4CD8525791B006A54E3)

Pro: FL Govt activity shall take place in meetings open to the public. If two members of a board meet and discuss an issue it is a meeting that must be open to the public. (Two members cannot discuss an issue outside of an official public meeting)

Issues/complexities:

- There is a question in the FAQ asking whether two members of the board can attend a social function or whether that would violate the law. If details like that need to be considered then perhaps the law is unworkable.

- "The law, in essence, is applicable to any gathering, whether formal or casual, of two or more members of the same board or commission to discuss some matter on which foreseeable action will be taken by the public board or commission." It seems it is illegal for a board member to run into another at the Brownwood square and ask, "what did you think about that presentation yesterday?" This would be a violation of the law since it would be considered a meeting where notice was not provided to the public.

- Avoiding a direct conversation by working through an intermediary would be a violation of the law.

- There is a 373 page Government-In-The-Sunshine Manual (http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/MNOS-B9QQ79/$file/SunshineManual.pdf) to make it easier to understand.

[justjim]

How are they any different than those they replaced?

In a nutshell, The three new commissioners that replaced the incumbents campaigned on a promise to overturn the 25% tax increase that the incumbent commissioners imposed on Sumter County residents. :clap2:

[Mleeja]

I would be surprised if the former commissioners did not have private meetings with the Developer. But of course that was not in the article.

The commissioners, current or former, can have individual meetings with anyone they want. They just can’t have the meetings as a group. In a few DS articles backs, it mentioned the The Villages Development reached out to meet with the individual commissioners. I seem to recall 4 of the 5 did.

[Velvet]

What is the sunshine law? Attempting to control the sunshine in florida??? Animal advocacy??

“Florida's Government in the Sunshine Law, passed in 1967, requires that all meetings of any state, county, or municipal board or commission be open to the public, and mandates that any official action taken at the closed meeting not be binding.”

Sounds good to me... can’t do deals in the dark... wink, wink....

[Notsocrates]

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance,
Jefferson

[rogerk]

The biggest problem with the increase in the impact Fee/Tax is that it will disproportionately affect industrial development and investment investment. It m ust be applied equally to.all builders in a county - not just the residential sector. They can move to.another county and take their property taxes with them. Then the property owners will have to pay.

[Taltarzac725]

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/MNOS-B9QQ79/$file/SunshineManual.pdf

Maybe worth a look.

[tophcfa]

The intent of the Sunshine Law, and similar laws called another name in other states, is generally twofold. First, to prevent public officials from being influenced by conflicts of interest. Second, to insure transparency, meaning that discussions about important issues effecting the general public are taking place in a public forum for all interested parties to have access to if they so choose. I agree with the OP that certain actions pointed out are not in line with the intent of the law. That being said, let’s not cherry pick violations of the intent of the law, but point out all apparent violations. The funding of incumbent commissioners running for re-election by certain parties who expect favorable rulings on their behalf is clearly a conflict of interest. Private meetings with high level representatives of parties hoping for favorable rulings by County Commissioners or Amenity Authority Committee members would be a prim example of violating public transparency. If one is going to call out Sunshine Law violations, be fair and equitable and call them all out.

[J1ceasar]

If this is all you have to worry about in your life I'm really sorry. Come up with a big scandal please like how 50 million was spent last yearextra and collected from the taxes of hard-working citizens of and retirees of Sumter

[mepoole]

Amen!!

[GolfGirl122]

When did the Sumter County Administrator wake up and discover a Sunshine Law violation? Where was he for the previous 4-5 years? Total collusion with the Developer - yet no Sunshine violations cited? Give me a break! Stop stepping on the people who represent the people. We too, have had enough.

[FosterMomma]

The situation at the SPCA is abysmal. Yes, a few dogs now have a tin roof over their heads but they are left caged in the heat and the cold without other protection. This organization has lost yet another Executive Director and if the place didn’t have volunteers, the place would literally fall apart. Why have so many EDs left? Crappy conditions; a small meddling Board that cripples their efforts and a few key staff that literally drives them out.

[Stu from NYC]

When did the Sumter County Administrator wake up and discover a Sunshine Law violation? Where was he for the previous 4-5 years? Total collusion with the Developer - yet no Sunshine violations cited? Give me a break! Stop stepping on the people who represent the people. We too, have had enough.

I wonder about that also.

[Taltarzac725]

I met both Oren Miller and his wife when a dog got loose here in Lynnhaven and our neighbor found it. They unturned every rock so to speak to help the dog and his owner. He was a deaf chef from Atlanta. The dog owner that is.

They seem like very good people without an army of lawyers and their own paper backing them.

[mjpuleo]

enlighten me please --- what is a Sunshine Law??

[Stu from NYC]

enlighten me please --- what is a Sunshine Law??

If you read earlier posts you will understand.

[Pairadocs]

Exactly, and many enter politics at ALL levels for the wrong reasons. To make the person "feel" more important, to be recognized and looked up to ( ! ??), people in general any more, do NOT enter public positions KNOWING, as our founding fathers knew and accepted, that it means a HUGE personal and FINANCIAL SACRIFICE, but, they were willing to make it, to be public "servants". Many, like John Adams and actually all did in those days, gave up personal income, could not work as many acres when they had to be gone long months to Philadelphia and later in D.C. those who served KNEW that as our reps it would mean personal financial loss, but their families, wife and children pitched in and felt the sacrifice was worth it. This was NEVER intended to be a life long career, a way to make MORE income, etc. it was a duty and a way to GIVE to this precious democracy.... not a life long "gravy train" of private barbers, chefs, dining rooms, jets, world travel, kick backs from credit card companies, oil companies, pharmaceuticals, etc.

[Number 10 GI]

When you are goring the other guy's ox, no problem, but when it's your ox getting gored it is so unfair and one sided.