Affording to live in TV

[SookeyJo]

This may seem kind of personal, but I was wondering what the average retirement income is for people who have moved to TV. I realize much depends on the type of housing that is chosen and the extra amenities one might want, but I've been asked this question many times and I'm kind of curious, too. Not that anyone needs to say what their income is!! I'm not nosey!

[Bogie Shooter]

This may seem kind of personal, but I was wondering what the average retirement income is for people who have moved to TV. I realize much depends on the type of housing that is chosen and the extra amenities one might want, but I've been asked this question many times and I'm kind of curious, too. Not that anyone needs to say what their income is!! I'm not nosey!
Stats that have been posted on here before, the average is $93,000. If I remember this is based on IRS data. (?)

[Tom Hannon]

This subject was addressed in a recent post. Bogie's $93,000 income is correct but as Russ Boston mentioned, this salary includes income of some people who are still working.

IMO- The $93,000 seems high (but not off the charts) If money is tight, I'd advise buying something more affordable. All Village people get the same stuff. It doesn't matter if you buy a $135,000 Patio villa or a 1 million dollar cottage. Live within your means.

[Russ_Boston]

I'm not sure I was the one who mentioned working but maybe I was pointed to since I will be working while in TV.

To me you can't go by average or even median income.

Go by what your budget will be:

Income -

Mortgage (if any)
taxes
bond (if any)
amenity fee
utilities
sewer, water
cable
savings
car payments
cart payments
monthly fun (golf, etc.)

put that budget together and multiply by 12. Is it enough? OK come joint the fun!

[EdV]

One of the many things I admire about TV is how they have made this lifestyle available to all ends of the financial spectrum. Regardless of which Village you live in, $135/mo gives you equal access to all the amenities including the free golf on the executive courses.

[pooh]

One does not need $93,000/year to live here. I know many who live in this community with very modest incomes.

What you need depends upon what you want. If you buy a smaller house or a villa, depending upon size, housing costs will be less than a larger home with lots of upgrades. Your television bill will be determined by what type of service you want....high def, movie channels, sports packages. Your water bill is dependent upon usage....same for gas and electric. If you want your lawn cut, it could cost from $40/month and up. Many people tend to their own yards.

I find auto insurance as well as house insurance similar to what I paid in CA. There it was earthquakes, here it's storms.

Not sure where you're living now, but I don't find it any more expensive or less expensive than where I lived in CA. Some things are more expensive, other things less expensive. It evens out.

Remember, you will pay a monthly amenity fee....but all pay and it's about the same for everyone.

[villa2]

Stats that have been posted on here before, the average is $93,000. If I remember this is based on IRS data. (?)

I thought this was a figure that was thrown around to attract the retailers to the area. I do not think this total reflects the people living on pensions, social security and other retirement income.

[jannd228]

Stats that have been posted on here before, the average is $93,000. If I remember this is based on IRS data. (?)

is that figure per household or per individual

[Snowbirdtobe]

Here is a URL for household income for Lady Lake, FL
http://www.clrsearch.com/RSS/Demographics/FL/Lady_Lake/Household_Income
I hope that $93,000 isn't required for TV or snowbirdtobe will fly back home to a much lower cost Massachusetts.

[graciegirl]

Here is a URL for household income for Lady Lake, FL
http://www.clrsearch.com/RSS/Demographics/FL/Lady_Lake/Household_Income
I hope that $93,000 isn't required for TV or snowbirdtobe will fly back home to a much lower cost Massachusetts.

Not sure about the accuracy of this graph. There are only 7200 households listed. I can't find the date on it.

Not to worry snowbird,that figure is not required to live here at all. However, do most of you think that the average income of new residents is more or less than say, five years ago?

[bargee]

We've been living here for 10 years on a heck of a lot less than that,and quite well I might add.

[villa2]

44,629 is the average median household income according to the US Census figures for 2008. That is a far cry from $93,000.

There are only about 11 counties in the entire US where the median household income is $93,000 and above. Four of those are in Northern Virginia, two are in Maryland (just across the border from Virginia), three are in New Jersey, one in Colorado and one in New York.


From BK Cunningham.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31437&highlight=retirement+income&page=2

[2BNTV]

Do a search for the thread "60K'. It will provide additional information of what some people are living on in TV.

One post from "cybrgeezer" claims they know of a couple who are living on 32K per year.

It is an individual choice as to how much one needs to live on. I find it helpful to crunch the numbers. Basic housing cost that are stated on TV website is accurate. There are some variables but one should decide for themselves how much entertainment such as eating out etc one will be able to do.

The "nuts and bolts section" has a three part article by zcaveman on TV that you will find useful.

IMHO - If the 93K were the absolute minmum, there would a lot less people in TV. I know I wouldn't be moving to TV.

[Bogie Shooter]

This may seem kind of personal, but I was wondering what the average retirement income is for people who have moved to TV. I realize much depends on the type of housing that is chosen and the extra amenities one might want, but I've been asked this question many times and I'm kind of curious, too. Not that anyone needs to say what their income is!! I'm not nosey!

The original question was "what is average retirement income" not what is the average income required to live in the Villages.

[l2ridehd]

I have looked at this at about every way possible and have come up with what I believe you need. Decide on your home type you require. Decide if you will have a mortgage. Add the cost of the mortgage, plus $1000 a month. (this includes all utilities, lawn, pest control, cable, bond, taxes, car except for car payment, insurance, etc) This gives you everything except food, cloths, medical and entertainment. Figure what those will cost and that should come real close to your budget requirements. If you have a net (after tax income) of $36000 a year I believe you can live comfortably. If you want a European vacation every year or new Mercedes every 3 years, or some other higher then average expense, add that to the $36000 a year. If you only dine out once a week, only play golf on executive courses, and live frugal, then the $36000 can be lower. Probably an absolute minimum is around $28000 with no mortgage.

[Vinny]

I have set myself up so that my total yearly expense without car payment (which will be paid off by the time I retire) is about $24K. I do not plan on taking any expensive vacations around the world as I have been there and done that. I will not be able to live a lush lifestyle when I do retire (unless a few things fall into place) but I will be able to pay my bills and have enough left over to enjoy some nights out, new clothes, etc. I got all that I wanted our of life while I was young. If worse comes to worse and I have to retire earlier than expected due to illness or such, I also have the option to sell my existing home and get one less expensive. Our plan is to stay in TV no matter what the situation.

[rjm1cc]

It is a good question. The 93M is being used to attract business to the new town center and maybe it reflects current people building in the area. Thus not a true measure of retirement income. My guess from reading the blog would be under 1/2 of the households would be less than 50,000. Over 100,000 would be 10%+
I think 12ridehd had a good answer. I don't have my budget (I am not at TV either) but I think I hit 1,400 for similar items but I think the 1,000 is a good livable number. However not sure but he might not be including the cost of the bond.
You might want to set up a pole and ask for retired full time residences to answer. Important considerations to work into the pole is how they pay for health care and if they have assets set asside for major expenses or if their income has to cover.

[Yoda]

Stats that have been posted on here before, the average is $93,000. If I remember this is based on IRS data. (?)

one question that I have is, are you only counting full-time residents are they counting snowbirds who are still working.

I know for a fact that you can live very comfortably here on a whole lot less than that.

Yoda

[logdog]

One does not need $93,000/year to live here. I know many who live in this community with very modest incomes.

What you need depends upon what you want. If you buy a smaller house or a villa, depending upon size, housing costs will be less than a larger home with lots of upgrades. Your television bill will be determined by what type of service you want....high def, movie channels, sports packages. Your water bill is dependent upon usage....same for gas and electric. If you want your lawn cut, it could cost from $40/month and up. Many people tend to their own yards.

I find auto insurance as well as house insurance similar to what I paid in CA. There it was earthquakes, here it's storms.

Not sure where you're living now, but I don't find it any more expensive or less expensive than where I lived in CA. Some things are more expensive, other things less expensive. It evens out.

Remember, you will pay a monthly amenity fee....but all pay and it's about the same for everyone.

I'll bet you paid more in CA state tax than the $135 monthly amenity fee. In NM, I paid about $150 per month in HOA dues and state income tax. I'm saving money on the amenity fee here and most of it goes to support things I actually use.

[Bogie Shooter]

It is a good question. The 93M is being used to attract business to the new town center and maybe it reflects current people building in the area. Thus not a true measure of retirement income. My guess from reading the blog would be under 1/2 of the households would be less than 50,000. Over 100,000 would be 10%+
I think 12ridehd had a good answer. I don't have my budget (I am not at TV either) but I think I hit 1,400 for similar items but I think the 1,000 is a good livable number. However not sure but he might not be including the cost of the bond.
You might want to set up a pole and ask for retired full time residences to answer. Important considerations to work into the pole is how they pay for health care and if they have assets set asside for major expenses or if their income has to cover.
Somewhere on this site is a poll just as you have suggested.....not of much value.

[golfnut]

i think l2ride's figures are very reasonable....gn

[chuckinca]

My mother lived in the historic area on $15K/Yr. House, car and medical was paid for. She saved about $200/Mo too.

.

[2BNTV]

SookeyJo
Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lancaster, Ohio
Posts: 23

Affording to live in TV

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This may seem kind of personal, but I was wondering what the average retirement income is for people who have moved to TV. I realize much depends on the type of housing that is chosen and the extra amenities one might want, but I've been asked this question many times and I'm kind of curious, too. Not that anyone needs to say what their income is!! I'm not nosey!

TOTV members:

Maybe I'm missing something but whether the actual answer is 44K or 93K, my impression is that SookeyJo is asking is how do I compare to others in terms of income and will TV be affordable to me?

SookeyJo:
Is that the real question?

[rjm1cc]

I am home and have access to my budget. This is an estimate of a non resident. I estimated on the high side.

Builder My Estimate
Est Annual Monthly
Insurance House auto cart 1,200 1,800 150
Bond DDA 2,000 167
CDD assessment 100-300/m 2,040 2,200 183
Realestate 3-4.5m (8MNJ) 2,880 3,500 292
Utilities -
Trash 216 216 18
Elect 1,008 1,500 125
Telephone 480 1,270 106
Ammenity fee 1,620 1,800 150
Sewer 252 300 25
Water( 3 tier rates) 456 525 67
Cable / Internet 636 1,300 108
gas (or add to elect) 1,008 1,200 75
Total 11,796 17,611 1,468

The first column is the builders estimate so you can see where I increased my estimate. I think there is general agreement, when posters commented on costs, that the builders estimates are reasonable. Real Estate tax assumes you are a full time resident and get the homestead credit.

Sorry the format looked great until I posted. The builders total was 11,796 and my total 17,611 for the year. The first col. is builder, second is my annual and 3rd is my monthly estimate.

[Schaumburger]

RJM1CC,
Thank you for the budget breakdown -- very helpful. On your real estate taxes of $292/month -- is that just for your home in TV? Your phone you estimate $106/month -- is that for both cell and landline service in TV? I'm in suburban Chicago, and my cell phone is $45/month (including 200 text messages/month) and landline is $35/month, total $80/month for phone service. Is landline or cell phone service in TV more expensive than up north?
Laura

[Hawkwind]

RJM1CC

Thanks for the info but a few other things may needed to be added to the budget.

Newspaper
Pest control inside and out.
Lawn service (cutting and trimming the grass) if you do not do your own
Lawn fertilizing again if you do not do your own
Landscaping (weeding, trimming plants and trees)
Power washing (at least twice a year)
A/C maintenance contract (if desired)

[2 Oldcrabs]

Do not forget to take inflation into your consideration. It may be flat right now, but at some point it will come back.

[rjm1cc]

RJM1CC,
Thank you for the budget breakdown -- very helpful. On your real estate taxes of $292/month -- is that just for your home in TV? Your phone you estimate $106/month -- is that for both cell and landline service in TV? I'm in suburban Chicago, and my cell phone is $45/month (including 200 text messages/month) and landline is $35/month, total $80/month for phone service. Is landline or cell phone service in TV more expensive than up north?
Laura

The RE is just TV and it is, hopefully, on the high side. My impression is that what ever house you settle on the extras might add a lot of dollars and RE tax could then be higher. Prices will go up a little each year and part of that is included. Phone is for both cell and land line using my current pattern of usage. I would hope to cut the expense but I have to keep in mind my responsibility to support the phone companies. Remember I am not a TV resident so these are just my estimates from what I have read and putting in my living patterns. I would think your Chicago prices would work as an estimate. You might look at Google phone (free) for a land line number and go with just a cell phone.

[rjm1cc]

RJM1CC

Thanks for the info but a few other things may needed to be added to the budget.

Newspaper
Pest control inside and out.
Lawn service (cutting and trimming the grass) if you do not do your own
Lawn fertilizing again if you do not do your own
Landscaping (weeding, trimming plants and trees)
Power washing (at least twice a year)
A/C maintenance contract (if desired)

I agree. I was figuring to do most of that myself but you still have a couple of hundred dollars supplies. I broke my budget into sections such Household, Food & Clothing, Transportaion, Health, and fun.
The A/C maintenance brings up another problem. Do you budget a little each month toward major repair expenses or do you have assets that you can use to cover the expense.

Inflation is a big problem, espicaly if you are using annuities that are not inflation adjusted. I think you can expect living costs to double in the years that you are at TV.

[cybrgeezer]

2BNTV wrote: "One post from "cybrgeezer" claims they know of a couple who are living on 32K per year."

Nope, someone else wrote that, and I asked for details on how they are doing it.

[2BNTV]

To cybrgeezer:

I apoligize if you took offense to my statements. I must have read the thread wrong.

I wasn't trying to offend you.

Regards,

2bntv

[Forsyth]

My cell phone bill with Verizon for two phones is way over $100 monthly and I have no texting, but instead full data/internet access. My house telephone bill runs additionally.

Also, don't forget, I tried not to be realistic and ignored the real reason I went to TV in the first place....to have fun.........other residents invite us to dinner out,to a move or a show, etc. that's an additional $50 - $70 per outing. Once weekly = $200 - $280. Add this annually !!!

I was going to try not to work........I've given up on that. We were far, far from rich or plush. My husband's nice retirement isn't even enough. And by the way, we "only" have a CYV. And I won a golf cart.

[cybrgeezer]

2B: No offense.

I still wonder how those folks are doing it.

[graciegirl]

My cell phone bill with Verizon for two phones is way over $100 monthly and I have no texting, but instead full data/internet access. My house telephone bill runs additionally.

Also, don't forget, I tried not to be realistic and ignored the real reason I went to TV in the first place....to have fun.........other residents invite us to dinner out,to a move or a show, etc. that's an additional $50 - $70 per outing. Once weekly = $200 - $280. Add this annually !!!

I was going to try not to work........I've given up on that. We were far, far from rich or plush. My husband's nice retirement isn't even enough. And by the way, we "only" have a CYV. And I won a golf cart.

Forsyth.

Your estimate for dining out in TV seems high to me. The three of us can go to Cane Garden for dinner for less than 40 dollars. But...only Sweetie has a couple of cocktails.

Our phone charges are the same in TV as they are in Ohio. And we have Direct TV...one bill. We carry the boxes back and forth and have the services switched.

We don't have house phone because we are snowbirds. Does anyone else just have cell service when they live there full time?

We find it costs us just about the same to live in TV, except the heat air is lower.

Kindest wishes,

Gracie.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

We are getting by on a lot less this year. We are not getting stock dividends this and maybe next year, I am retired on a small pension but can't get SS for another year and the wife does not work.
We are fortunate enough to have our house,car and both golf carts paid for.
Dining out has slowed down and we tend to order more specials and hit happy hours....Mccalls,Katie Belles and Urban flats being our top choices.
I play the executive courses and stay as busy as I want.
We have had our condo up north for sale for 2-1/2 years but have been fortunate to have our former Pastor and his wife rent it for the past year. The rent just covered our monthly payments we have on the place.
We just accepted an offer to purchase ...............over 20 percent less then our original asking price.
It will be good to have our other place sold and will take away a lot of stress.
So I would have to say that yes you can live in TV on a small income, but a larger income would be beneficial.
It depends on your lifestyle and how many things you are making payments on.

[Army Guy]

OBD, that is great about your home. I know that has been a drain on you. We are looking to sell our house also way below market just to move it.

Army Guy

[Ohiogirl]

I have tracked all our expenses on our vinyl CYV (as a rental) for 4 years. If I take out the mortgage (which we will be paying off), and the bond (which we just paid off), and the cleaning fees and caretaker expenses, I come up with about $14,500 in home expenses only, not including food, entertainment, medical, transportation (golf cart & auto), clothes, haircuts. It does include landline, internet and cable. Lots of our entertainment/activities will be free in TV.

This does include about $3200 in landscaping and improvements and furniture we did last year. I'm leaving that in the budget as I figure there will still be stuff we might want to do, if we can afford it (for instance upgrade appliances, do granite countertops, redecorating, and I'm always buying plants and garden stuff). If not, I figure this will cover inflation for a few years anyway.

We've already done gutters (not everyone has/wants these), attic stairs, cabinets in the laundry room, custom closets, tinting some windows, some extra landscaping in the front and back. I sew and made custom window treatments for some windows. For now, I do the interior painting. We're going to try doing our own mowing (with a push mower) and fertilizing of shrubs and grass, at least for a while, to save there.

We've had it occupied about 8-9 mos of the year, including our visits.

I don't think utilities will go up that much, except for inflation, as I don't think tenants bother to regulate the heat and a/c as much as I will. Probably we'll spend a little more on the water bill.

I think the real key is to not have ANY debt, and some savings available. We are going to try and live on pension money our first couple of years, adding social security in 2 years when we turn 62, and to leave all the IRA stuff alone until we see what it actually costs us to live. This is more for my peace of mind, as I'm a real financial worrywart.

Originally we were going to work until age 62, but my company closed it's office end of 2009 and we did the numbers and figured what the heck, you don't live forever. Just check out how many classmates and friends you know who didn't even make it to age 60.

We have a couple of big trips this winter planned and partly paid for already, will pay the rest from our cushion as we go. We will do small trips, mostly to visit friends, next summer. We will do more big trips, assuming health stays good, only if we can afford it. Our largest pension has a COLA, which will help a little with inflation.

Don't forget that your auto costs, if you downsize to 1 car and barely use it, except for traveling, will go down significantly.

So, my point is that I think it's quite possible to live on a fairly small income if you have no debt. Will find out shortly if my projections are adequate. We can do a lot better if we start withdrawing from our IRAs. My financial advisor, and all the retirement projection forecasts I've done, says we would be fine withdrawing about 4%/yr, but I can't bring myself to start that until I have a more concrete history on expenses after we move down.

Only thing that really scares me is medical costs, which now are very low, but who knows about the future - another reason, as far as I'm concerned, to retire early, while we still have our health.

[18togo]

While I don't live there,(yet) it sounds as if normal living costs are the same, and that $36,000 a year would be sufficient. Of course, a lot has to do with what you want to spend you money on. If you want to eat out every meal, or take a lot of trips, it would cost more, but just as before you were retired, you can pick and choose.

It also seems that there is so much to do in TV that is free due to your amenities payment, that you could conceivably live the "Life of Reilly" with very little money outside of normal expenses.

[Army Guy]

Ohiogirl, I agree with your post. You are right on the money with your assumptions.

Army Guy

[uujudy]

. . .
We don't have house phone because we are snowbirds. Does anyone else just have cell service when they live there full time?

. . .

We moved here in October of 2008, during the elections. We decided to wait on acquiring a home phone, because we thought we would be inundated with calls from politicians.

Meanwhile, we're still waiting. We're full-timers and have only our cell phones, and it works out just fine -- as long as I can find my phone and I remember to charge it. :loco:

We have the friends and family plan, so everybody 'back home' can call us whenever they like. It's only Villagers who need to call us long distance, but most of them have cell phones, too, so there really isn't any long distance calling. I find that we do more emailing and IMing instead of actual talking with the folks back home, but with the time difference it's really more convenient for everybody this way. :024:

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Would somebody please call me so I can find my phone?

[Pturner]

We did not get a land line in TV, where we are snowflakes, and we cut it out a couple of years ago in Atlanta, where we still live.

I agree with Ohiogirl's numbers, as well.

[Ohiogirl]

Army Guy and PT,

you're making me feel a lot better about living within our means, and probably living quite well by our standards. Both of you, from your many posts, seem to be very practical, sensible people who are more analytical than I am.

Like OBD, if the money's not there, we won't spend it. Or, if I find we really need more income, will try to supplement with a part-time job. I keep wondering anyway if I might want to work some anyway, although I keep meeting Villagers who said they thought the same thing, but now don't see how they could fit work into their busy schedules.

Having said that, it's a good thing Ohioboy is not as frugal or we would never have any fun!

I write this during a packing break. We are loading up the Budget truck tomorrow with I can't believe how much more stuff. Just a few pieces of furniture, mind, since we already did this 4 years ago to furnish our place for renting. Dropping off some pieces at my kids' houses along the way, but most of it is clothes, more kitchen stuff, and just misc. STUFF. I hope it fits, but if not, I'll likely be weeding out further once we're in. And I've moved 22 times in my adult life! One thing for sure, shouldn't need clothes, furniture or kitchen stuff for years to come.

[Army Guy]

Ohiogirl, I have had some of the same thoughts about working that you mentioned. Although we have saved and cheap to live in TV I am one of those types who never thinks we have saved enough. With that said, over the past year and a half with going down every weekend since we bought, I also don't know how I could fit working into our schedule! It would take all the fun out of living in TV! So I guess if I think we need to cut back to save, I will just get one less drink at Happy Hour! :pepper2:

Army Guy

[memason]

From my retired friends, the advice I get is to learn and "spend" the money we have so diligently saved for so many years. This is the time we have saved for and when it's gone, we'll move in with the kids ... ..or the friends :loco: ... Seriously, they told me this was a very hard transition and mindset.

During my quest to determine affordability in TV, I didn't do anything different than I have done my entire working lifetime. I looked at what would be "reliably" coming in and what I could afford. I consider pension and social security [in a few years] as reliable. Investments in 401K, stocks, etc., I considered as unreliable.

From my experience, the house issue is the biggest issue with the Villages. Your retired income will determine what type of home you will buy and whether you have a mortgage or not. Other than the amenity fees & bond, you would probably have the remaining expenses no matter where you live [retire] ...water, cable, internet, food, medical, etc., etc., etc... This is where a good spreadsheet comes in handy to balance everything.

As others have indicated, you can live in TV on $25K or $2.0m Regardless your income, you'll be playing the same golf courses; eating in the same restaurants and dancing to the same music in the squares.

Cheers....

[brostholder]

What a great thread for some of us "worriers". It certainly has helped put my mind at ease a little bit. In a few months I will be eligible (at age 62) to collect social security of $1800/month. The year after that my wife will collect $900/month for a total of $2700/month or $32400/year. We have group of investments that pay dividends that cover our CYV mortgage, amenity fee and bond. From what everyone is writing it appears that if we lived without eating out a lot, we could do it without ever touching our savings and other investments. Here is a typical day I spent in the villages when I was there last month. 6am-2mile walk (free). 7am-swim laps at seabrook (free); 930am-civil discussion group (free); 11am-line dance lessons for 2 hours (free); 2pm-two happy hour beers and free peanuts on the porch at Cody's watching the world go by ($6); 4pm-pennecamp pool talking with great neighbors (free); 530pm-happy hour double and dancing at LSL ($5); 8pm-a delicious linghuini and white clam sauce at pizza bravo in LSL ($14). There is no where else in the world that I could have that great of a day for $25!!!! Living in the villages...priceless!

[billethkid]

you can also live in TV.
My sister's ONLY income is SS and she lives in the historic section.
People who have had to live within their means know how to do it and they also do it successfully here in TV.

As has been said some where above....it doesn't matter whether you have a manufactured home or a custom million dollar house, the occupants ALL get to use the same amenities in TV.

btk

[jebartle]

We did not get a land line in TV, where we are snowflakes, and we cut it out a couple of years ago in Atlanta, where we still live.

I agree with Ohiogirl's numbers, as well.

We did just the opposite...Land line only.....Had smart phones with EVERY ADD-ON but found out we were DUMB after reading the fine-line of taxes etc. on bill.....Also found out that 99.9% of calls made could have been made at home after we retired, no rush, matter of fact, that is an understatement, giggle....I will agree that it is good to have a cell phone for emergencies, and will get one when that happens, ha ha, giggle, just kidding!...Really will probably get one of those cheapos at Wally-world at $7.00 a month...Saved about $200 a month.

[collie1228]

Making savings last through the retirement years is something we all are concerned about. T. Rowe Price has a tool that anyone can use, based on your own circumstances, that will calculate the probability of your savings never running out. It's called a Monte Carlo analysis, and the software looks at thousands of possibilities and is used throughout the financial services industry. It helps you understand how much you may have available to spend each month from your retirement savings, the likelihood your retirement savings will last throughout your retirement, and options to make up for potential shortfalls.

http://www3.troweprice.com/ric/ric/public/ric.do

I'm no financial genius, but I'm a detail person, and I have developed my own Excel budget spreadsheets for different retirement scenarios. This Monte Carlo tool helped me understand my savings needs and the probability of running out of money. And it's easy to use - the software is very user-friendly. And it's free. My only caution is that you read and fully understand the notes on the first page. Software can't do everything, and T. Rowe Price explains the limitations of the software.

[memason]

Monte Carlo is a good analysis, but the critical piece of information you need is not available. If it were available, the answer would be much simpler.

The one piece of critical information we are lacking is: How long we will live

[collie1228]

memason is entirely correct about life expectancy - but the software does allow you to use different ages to calculate the probabilities. I think it defaults to age 90, which is way out of whack from my thinking. Personally, my spending pattern at 90 would be nowhere near what it would be at 65. So I tend to use age 80 or 85 as my life expectancy.

[rjm1cc]

What a great thread for some of us "worriers". It certainly has helped put my mind at ease a little bit. In a few months I will be eligible (at age 62) to collect social security of $1800/month. The year after that my wife will collect $900/month for a total of $2700/month or $32400/year. We have group of investments that pay dividends that cover our CYV mortgage, amenity fee and bond. From what everyone is writing it appears that if we lived without eating out a lot, we could do it without ever touching our savings and other investments. Here is a typical day I spent in the villages when I was there last month. 6am-2mile walk (free). 7am-swim laps at seabrook (free); 930am-civil discussion group (free); 11am-line dance lessons for 2 hours (free); 2pm-two happy hour beers and free peanuts on the porch at Cody's watching the world go by ($6); 4pm-pennecamp pool talking with great neighbors (free); 530pm-happy hour double and dancing at LSL ($5); 8pm-a delicious linghuini and white clam sauce at pizza bravo in LSL ($14). There is no where else in the world that I could have that great of a day for $25!!!! Living in the villages...priceless!

You can increase your social security payments by delaying when they start. You might want to think about using some of your investments for living expenses for a year or two and then start SS.

[brostholder]

You can increase your social security payments by delaying when they start. You might want to think about using some of your investments for living expenses for a year or two and then start SS.

Thanks for the info. What I intend to do is take my social security when I am 62, then pay it back in full at 66. This (I think) will allow my investments to keep growing and then I will be able to get my full ss benefits.

[Russ_Boston]

Thanks for the info. What I intend to do is take my social security when I am 62, then pay it back in full at 66. This (I think) will allow my investments to keep growing and then I will be able to get my full ss benefits.


Could you explain this better? I've never heard about that. Could you provide some math as an example?

Thanks,

[Ohiogirl]

I have seen stuff somewhere that indicates the gov is aware of this and may take steps to not allow this glitch "payback" anymore." I'm really glad I'm retiring at basically 60 yrs of age and can decide, after 2 years or retirement, when I want to start taking my SS.

[Boomer]

Here is a link to an article from Kiplinger about the Social Security payback and the possible change that could happen. Within this article is a link to an earlier article on maximizing SS.

http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/social-security-payback-option-may-disappear.html

Boomer

[railroadman]

Russ:

You can take your SS at 62 and pay back the amount you have received at 66 and then get your SS, with no reduction in benefits.

For myself, working for the railroad for my entire life, I have never paid SS. Railroad workers have their own retirement system and can retire with full retirement at the age of 60.

[zcaveman]

Russ:

You can take your SS at 62 and pay back the amount you have received at 66 and then get your SS, with no reduction in benefits.

For myself, working for the railroad for my entire life, I have never paid SS. Railroad workers have their own retirement system and can retire with full retirement at the age of 60.

You can take SS at 62 and then pay back all of the money that you received from SS and then get the full amount of your retirement at 66. I have no idea what you saved (unless you count the interest you made from the money you got) and I think that this program has been rescinded.

[getdul981]

I am already on RR Ret and the only time I paid in SS was for a few months before working for the RR and the time in military. I don't see the benefit of taking the 4 years of SS if you're just going to pay it right back when you get to be 66. If you can survive without SS for the 4 years, why not just quit work at 62 and not apply until you are 66?

[rjm1cc]

Thanks for the info. What I intend to do is take my social security when I am 62, then pay it back in full at 66. This (I think) will allow my investments to keep growing and then I will be able to get my full ss benefits.

You might also look at file and suspend. You half to be at full retirement age and one of you would have to have had minimal earnings to make it worth while. The one with the higher earnings files at normal retirement age and then suspends before collecting. The spouce can then claim on the suspended spouses benefits with no loss in benefits to that spouse. Other spouses benefits increase about 8% a year until 72.

[rjm1cc]

Thanks for the info. What I intend to do is take my social security when I am 62, then pay it back in full at 66. This (I think) will allow my investments to keep growing and then I will be able to get my full ss benefits.

You might also look at file and suspend. You half to be at full retirement age and one of you would have to have had minimal earnings to make it worth while. The one with the higher earnings files at normal retirement age and then suspends before collecting. The spouse can then claim on the suspended spouses benefits with no loss in benefits to that spouse. Other spouses benefits increase about 8% a year until 72.

[brostholder]

I am already on RR Ret and the only time I paid in SS was for a few months before working for the RR and the time in military. I don't see the benefit of taking the 4 years of SS if you're just going to pay it right back when you get to be 66. If you can survive without SS for the 4 years, why not just quit work at 62 and not apply until you are 66?
One reason is that the government is basically giving you a zero interest loan for 4 years. For example, if I get $32,400/year between my wife and I, then in 4 years I will have $129,600. However, if I take the $32,400 and can get 4% (no easy task these days), then in 4 years I should have $143,100, a gain of about $14,000. This is an option that is legally available to all. In fact it was told to me by social security.

[Russ_Boston]

Thanks for the info.

[l2ridehd]

One item you also need to factor into this plan is taxes. You will be taxed on SS benefits if your other income with SS puts you in a taxable position. And my guess would be that if you can afford to save and invest it, you will be taxed on it. And probably at a much higher rate then you 4% required return.

[Boomer]

Speaking of taxes -- am I correct that Florida does not have a state income tax? I always thought that was one of the draws for retirees, besides the weather and oceans. That could help out the budget of those who establish residency after living where state income taxes were a factor. But I don't know for sure what the status of Florida is now with that.

We do not own in TV, at this point, but for what it's worth, I think that unless someone is completely committed to the new home market because they are absolutely certain that only new will do, they should think about taking their time and giving the pre-owned market a chance.

I think finding the right pre-owned home can save you money. I am also a big believer in not buying as big as you can afford. In fact, I admit to getting a little tickled when I see people assume that the size of the house reflects net worth.

If you are not in a hurry to buy and/or you are not completely convinced that new is what you want, I suggest renting to get your bearings so you can really think about how much you want to spend and where you want to spend it.

Renting could be a really good investment, not that old "money out the window" thing at all. Well, sure, that's contradictory to all the stuff we have heard all our lives -- just like hearing that old "buy as big as you can afford" thing. I think the rules of real estate have changed forever.

I better get out of here this morning before I end up writing some kind of dissertation about why I think what I think about all this. You would all be lulled back to sleep if I did that.

Seeya.

Boomer

[mak44070]

Boomer,
You are correct - Florida has no state income tax at this time. That's one of the reasons that we are in Florida for over six months and in Ohio the rest of the time. It'll be nice not to write a check to the Ohio Treasury next April!

[jmitchell]

What a great thread for some of us "worriers". It certainly has helped put my mind at ease a little bit. In a few months I will be eligible (at age 62) to collect social security of $1800/month. The year after that my wife will collect $900/month for a total of $2700/month or $32400/year. We have group of investments that pay dividends that cover our CYV mortgage, amenity fee and bond. From what everyone is writing it appears that if we lived without eating out a lot, we could do it without ever touching our savings and other investments. Here is a typical day I spent in the villages when I was there last month. 6am-2mile walk (free). 7am-swim laps at seabrook (free); 930am-civil discussion group (free); 11am-line dance lessons for 2 hours (free); 2pm-two happy hour beers and free peanuts on the porch at Cody's watching the world go by ($6); 4pm-pennecamp pool talking with great neighbors (free); 530pm-happy hour double and dancing at LSL ($5); 8pm-a delicious linghuini and white clam sauce at pizza bravo in LSL ($14). There is no where else in the world that I could have that great of a day for $25!!!! Living in the villages...priceless!

:BigApplause:

[Boomer]

Boomer,
You are correct - Florida has no state income tax at this time. That's one of the reasons that we are in Florida for over six months and in Ohio the rest of the time. It'll be nice not to write a check to the Ohio Treasury next April!

Thanks, mak, I was not sure.

I think there are some states that do not tax unearned income, but Ohio sure wants a piece of everything. I know it's not as bad as some other states, but it's bad enough. I am glad to hear that Florida still has no state income tax at all. Congratulations on next April's raise.

- - - - - - - - - -

While I am on the subject of taxes, I might as well throw in another of my thoughts. I think that if a pension and/or SS or other sources of income are in place, staying out of tax-deferred accounts, for a while, if possible, can work really well in some circumstances. Spending the taxable income first, and trying to do that as long as it makes sense, can give the opportunity for transition into a retirement budget by lessening the tax hit for a while.

Remember that old "3-legged stool" that retirement planning used to talk about. (Pension/SS/Investments) Well, that stool now, to be ideal, might need at least 4 legs, maybe 5. The 4th leg is health care coverage. A 5th leg would be to enter retirement without debt or with only very carefully considered debt, as with a mortgage that can be covered with cash flow that is known and certain.

Uh oh. I think I am off and running here.....just some thoughts.

But before I go, I want to say that I follow Ohiogirl's posts. I have a feeling that girl knows her numbers. And there are lots of other posters here, too, who are sharing their good insight. Thank you.

Good luck to all of you as you try to figure out what is right for you as an individual making those retirement plans and choices.

Boomer

[barb1191]

You can increase your social security payments by delaying when they start. You might want to think about using some of your investments for living expenses for a year or two and then start SS.

If you wait until you're 70 y/o, you may then apply to SSA for the maximum accrued amount for your account.

What I did may not work for everyone, however, I collected on my deceased husband's SSA (which may also be your deceased and/or divorced spouse whom you were married to for at least eleven years) until turning 70 then transferred to my own SSA account to now receive the maximum amount.

All very legal and proper....b

[rjm1cc]

One item you also need to factor into this plan is taxes. You will be taxed on SS benefits if your other income with SS puts you in a taxable position. And my guess would be that if you can afford to save and invest it, you will be taxed on it. And probably at a much higher rate then you 4% required return.

From what I have read you get a refund or credit for the taxes paid. I have not tried to work it out so I do not know if you get dollar for dollar back or not. Understanding how taxes will work is an important part of this plan.
Also where the money is coming from for the repayment. Short term money earns very little. If you keep the funds in the stock market and it went up you could sell and be ahead of the game. If the market went down you could skip the repayment but then your benefits would also be lower. The point is everyone has a different situation and when to collect SS is a lot more complex than a lot of us know. Seek advice from the SS administration and anyone else you can talk to.