$800............Everyone Happy?!?!?!?!

[dewilson58]

Looks like the County Commissioners have spoken.
All that noise for less than $1,000 per new Villages house.
:ho:


So, is the 25% rollback / reversal next???
:1rotfl:

[Carla B]

Looks like the County Commissioners have spoken.
All that noise for less than $1,000 per new Villages house.
:ho:


So, is the 25% rollback / reversal next???
:1rotfl:

So, the Developer doesn't build structures other than single family houses in over-55 neighborhoods? Didn't the impact-fee raise also apply to other projects such as apartments, shopping centers, family neighborhoods, golf courses, etc. etc. that the Developer builds, all with higher impact fees? If not, then I agree it was much ado about nothing.

[Mleeja]

Say goodbye to hopes of getting your Costco, Trader Joe’s or other favored retail outlets. Say goodbye to the Rick Scott Industrial Park attracting any big time distribution centers. Hope you’re all happy that you have stuck it to “The Developer”.

[dewilson58]

So, the Developer doesn't build structures other than single family houses in over-55 neighborhoods? Didn't the impact-fee raise also apply to other projects such as apartments, shopping centers, family neighborhoods, golf courses, etc. etc. that the Developer builds, all with higher impact fees? If not, then I agree it was much ado about nothing.
Yes, but the courses have been platted and paid for.
Yes, but some of the commercial properties have been platted and paid for.


Unfortunately, some of the other commercial areas will just have higher costs for future growth...............whoops.


The main point of all the noise was related to the houses.


Oh Well.

[Bogie Shooter]

If taunting the Developer to move his operations elsewhere actually happened, this would one of the most asinine expressions from any Villager. Sad......


Daily Sun 3/24/21
Meanwhile, The Villages Developer dismissed taunts from supporters of the Estep-Miller-Search tax increase to move its operation to a more affordable county if it didn’t like the change in policy.

“While we are saddened by this misguided decision, our family and company remain committed to The Villages and our surrounding community,” said Mark Morse, president of The Villages. “We are in our fourth generation here — it’s our home where we live, work, pay taxes, raise our families and educate our children. Together with our residents, and alongside the businesses and workers who serve them, we remain focused on keeping the dream alive, on preserving the lifestyle Villagers enjoy.”

[Stu from NYC]

Say goodbye to hopes of getting your Costco, Trader Joe’s or other favored retail outlets. Say goodbye to the Rick Scott Industrial Park attracting any big time distribution centers. Hope you’re all happy that you have stuck it to “The Developer”.

Think you are being much too negative but time will tell.

BTW they seem to have compromised at 70%.

[vintageogauge]

Say goodbye to hopes of getting your Costco, Trader Joe’s or other favored retail outlets. Say goodbye to the Rick Scott Industrial Park attracting any big time distribution centers. Hope you’re all happy that you have stuck it to “The Developer”.

Build it and they will come. The governor will most likely step in with incentives for at least the industrial park.

[vintageogauge]

Nearly 80% of the 25% county tax increase when to roads, let's see if they drop 80% of the tax increase now. Wildwood should also be lowering property taxes where they apply as they have a huge surplus and it will only get bigger as they continue building down here.

[dewilson58]

Nearly 80% of the 25% county tax increase when to roads, let's see if they drop 80% of the tax increase now. Wildwood should also be lowering property taxes where they apply as they have a huge surplus and it will only get bigger as they continue building down here.
Don't hold your breath.
This impact fee increase will generate ~$2mil per year.
Last year's budget increased $50,000,000.
You can do the math.


I assume we are suppose to write letters to EMS now and tell them to reverse the 25% increase as they promised. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Mleeja]

Build it and they will come. The governor will most likely step in with incentives for at least the industrial park.

If a retailer wants to build in Sumter County and request and gains approval of tax breaks for like...say...impact fees. What was gained? Oh yeah, the EMS team “stuck it to The Developer”.

[dewilson58]

Build it and they will come. The governor will most likely step in with incentives for at least the industrial park.
The Field of Dreams went bankrupt. :ohdear:

[Number 10 GI]

Nearly 80% of the 25% county tax increase when to roads, let's see if they drop 80% of the tax increase now. Wildwood should also be lowering property taxes where they apply as they have a huge surplus and it will only get bigger as they continue building down here.

Tax monies to a politician are like heroin to a junkie, they can't get enough of it and can't break the habit. It's for the children don't you know or what ever imaginary crisis they dream up to justify raising taxes in order to buy votes.

Here is a great quote from H. L. Mencken

People do not expect to find chastity in a whorehouse. Why, then, do they expect to find honesty and humanity in government, a congeries of institutions whose modus operandi consists of lying, cheating, stealing, and if need be, murdering those who resist?

[thelegges]

I never thought Costco ( who is possibly building a site within 35 minutes of TV) or TJ’s a privately owned company, would pay the rental fees in TV land before the vote last night. So that’s not really a dream dashed.

[dewilson58]

I never thought Costco ( who is possibly building a site within 35 minutes of TV) or TJ’s a privately owned company, would pay the rental fees in TV land before the vote last night. So that’s not really a dream dashed.
TV has sold off retail zoned property for non-renters...................so it could be dashing.

[MSchad]

I never thought Costco ( who is possibly building a site within 35 minutes of TV) or TJ’s a privately owned company, would pay the rental fees in TV land before the vote last night. So that’s not really a dream dashed.

You are 100% spot on. Costco’s or TJs would never rent from the villages, they would buy land and build. Just possibly not in Sumter now.

[Neils]

Every other county has impact fees. What is the problem?

[dewilson58]

Every other county has impact fees. What is the problem?
There are a dozen other threads, read & get ramped up if you really want to know.:a040:

[npwalters]

Say goodbye to hopes of getting your Costco, Trader Joe’s or other favored retail outlets. Say goodbye to the Rick Scott Industrial Park attracting any big time distribution centers. Hope you’re all happy that you have stuck it to “The Developer”.

I seriously doubt that a one time impact fee is going to sway any major retailer one way or the other. $100,000 (for example) is chump change to Costco.

[Velvet]

You are 100% spot on. Costco’s or TJs would never rent from the villages, they would buy land and build. Just possibly not in Sumter now.

I’m perfectly happy with that. We already have way too much traffic around TV. We do not need more.

[tophcfa]

Looks like the County Commissioners have spoken.
All that noise for less than $1,000 per new Villages house.
:ho:


So, is the 25% rollback / reversal next???
:1rotfl:

Yes, I am happy. Let’s look at why.

- At least one of The commissioners wanted to pause the impact fee decision to take the time to have a truly independent expert analyze the effects of the increase, good idea.

- Unfortunately, the commissioners were put into a circumstance where they had no choice but to immediately make an important decision that should not have been fast tracked.

- The commissioners were wrongly put through a nasty negative attack of their character that could be characterized as bullying and had every right to respond in kind with vengeance against their attackers.

- Instead of an understandable nasty response, the commissioners took the high road and did not try to stick it to the party that unscrupulously dredged their character through the mud.

- When forced to make a decision on an expedited time line, the commissioners chose something very rare these days. They comprised down the middle, going half way between today’s impact fees and the maximum amount they could have imposed.

What a rare and nice thing, political compromise. Something that seems to never happen these days.

I understand that the new impact fees won’t come close to covering the 25 % property tax increase, but whatever revenue they raise can reduce the county’s residents property taxes by an equal dollar amount and the counties budget will be revenue neutral. That is not a tax increase, it is a tax reallocation.

I don’t care if it is a 1% or a 10% property tax reduction, the important thing is that IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO! Thanks to the new commissioners for not buckling to the intense pressure put on them and having the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing. :bigbow:

[dewilson58]

Yes, I am happy. :bigbow:
The State bill will not pass. $2mil/yr will not have a significant impact on taxes, a study should have been completed...............could have been completed in less than 30 days.

[Aloha1]

Yes, I am happy. Let’s look at why.

- At least one of The commissioners wanted to pause the impact fee decision to take the time to have a truly independent expert analyze the effects of the increase, good idea.

- Unfortunately, the commissioners were put into a circumstance where they had no choice but to immediately make an important decision that should not have been fast tracked.

- The commissioners were wrongly put through a nasty negative attack of their character that could be characterized as bullying and had every right to respond in kind with vengeance against their attackers.

- Instead of an understandable nasty response, the commissioners took the high road and did not try to stick it to the party that unscrupulously dredged their character through the mud.

- When forced to make a decision on an expedited time line, the commissioners chose something very rare these days. They comprised down the middle, going half way between today’s impact fees and the maximum amount they could have imposed.

What a rare and nice thing, political compromise. Something that seems to never happen these days.

I understand that the new impact fees won’t come close to covering the 25 % property tax increase, but whatever revenue they raise can reduce the county’s residents property taxes by an equal dollar amount and the counties budget will be revenue neutral. That is not a tax increase, it is a tax reallocation.

I don’t care if it is a 1% or a 10% property tax reduction, the important thing is that IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO! Thanks to the new commissioners for not buckling to the intense pressure put on them and having the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing. :bigbow:

Abrogation of their fiduciary responsibility for political expediency is never "the right thing to do".

[Bill14564]

The State bill will not pass. $2mil/yr will not have a significant impact on taxes, a study should have been completed...............could have been completed in less than 30 days.

What study should have been done? (honestly curious, not trying to make any point)

[dewilson58]

What study should have been done? (honestly curious, not trying to make any point)
:coolsmiley:
Some say the 2019 Road Impact Study should be updated.
A new study could have been completed, IF necessary.
The study takes county data then.......plug & play into a model.
Easily completed within 30 days.
:ho:

[Bill14564]

Abrogation of their fiduciary responsibility for political expediency is never "the right thing to do".

In what way did they abrogate their fiduciary responsibility?

Some would argue that their responsibility is to all their constituents, all the residents in the county. If this action increases income which leads to reduced taxes while not negatively impacting the future stability of the county finances, isn't that exactly what they are supposed to do?

[Bill14564]

:coolsmiley:
Some say the 2019 Road Impact Study should be updated.
A new study could have been completed, IF necessary.
The study takes county data then.......plug & play into a model.
Easily completed within 30 days.
:ho:

I haven't been able to find the 2015 study to see how things changed in the four years prior to the latest study. It would be interesting to use that to speculate how they might have further changed in the past 18 months.

[dewilson58]

I haven't been able to find the 2015 study to see how things changed in the four years prior to the latest study. It would be interesting to use that to speculate how they might have further changed in the past 18 months.
2015 was $2600
2019 was $2666

[Bill14564]

2015 was $2600
2019 was $2666

Ok, thank you.

Taking a closer look at the table in the 2019 report I see that both those numbers are at or near the 40% adoption mark. The table also provides the 100% mark and those numbers are similar in the two years for every category. Not much changed between 2015 and 2019.

It would have been nice to see some analysis of the cost/benefit of changing the discount fee, something more than just splitting the difference.

[Advogado]

It is too bad that, because of astute political maneuvering by the forces of the Developer, the road-impact fee was not increased to 100%.

Hopefully, impact fees will be imposed for other Developer-necessitated county infrastructure like: fire and police buildings and equipment, sewage lines and plants, libraries, other government buildings, ambulances and similar equipment, and parks. We need to stop subsidizing the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. It will happen, but the current residents should not be paying for it.

Remember the basic fact: The increase in impact fees is NOT a tax increase. It will be offset by a reduction in property taxes-- for both present and future residents AND businesses.

[Bill14564]

It is too bad that, because of astute political maneuvering by the forces of the Developer, the road-impact fee was not increased to 100%.

Hopefully, impact fees will be imposed for other Developer-necessitated county infrastructure like: fire and police buildings and equipment, sewage lines and plants, libraries, other government buildings, ambulances and similar equipment, and parks. We need to stop subsidizing the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. It will happen, but the current residents should not be paying for it.

Remember the basic fact: The increase in impact fees is NOT a tax increase. It will be offset by a reduction in property taxes-- for both present and future residents AND businesses.

That is NOT a fact.

It may be offset by a reduction in property taxes. It may also offset money in the general fund that gets used for something else. Perhaps it will be used to offset a decrease in services currently provided by the developer. Perhaps property taxes would have been lowered this year just as they were last year without any change in the fee.

The impact of the increased fees is yet to be seen, we might be rethinking the idea in a year or so.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Looks like the County Commissioners have spoken.
All that noise for less than $1,000 per new Villages house.
:ho:


So, is the 25% rollback / reversal next???
:1rotfl:

No. Impact fee is for roads. Has no effect on tax rates.

[Advogado]

I seriously doubt that a one time impact fee is going to sway any major retailer one way or the other. $100,000 (for example) is chump change to Costco.
You are right.

Look at an income statement for almost any business, and you will realize that depreciation expense (which is where an impact fee would be written off) is a relatively tiny part of total costs. Plus a Costco financial analyst would look at total tax costs and would find that the higher impact fee would be offset by lower property-tax. The articles by the Developer's Minister of Propaganda, David R. Corder, in the Daily Sun are baloney.

[Stu from NYC]

You are right.

Look at an income statement for almost any business, and you will realize that depreciation expense (which is where an impact fee would be written off) is a relatively tiny part of total costs. Plus a Costco financial analyst would look at total tax costs and would find that the higher impact fee would be offset by lower property-tax. The articles by the Developer's Minister of Propaganda, David R. Corder, in the Daily Sun are baloney.

He is definitely the minister of propaganda. lol

[VApeople]

I had no opinion on this subject until I read the front-page article in the Daily Sun a few days ago.

It said the 25% tax increase we had in 2019 raised about 51 million dollars. Out of that amount, about 41 million was spent on roads.

That seemed outlandish to me. 80% of our tax money spent on roads. That is why I am in favor of increasing the impact fee for new construction.

[Bill14564]

I seriously doubt that a one time impact fee is going to sway any major retailer one way or the other. $100,000 (for example) is chump change to Costco.

What about an additional $360,000 if Costco is considered a Discount Club or an additional $587,000 if Costco is considered a Discount Superstore? Do you think a half million dollars in additional cost is chump change for them too?

[dewilson58]

.
Happy with the $800???
When do we all get the 25% reversed??
Should we be writing letters???
Are the commissioners getting impeached??


:shrug:

[Stu from NYC]

What about an additional $360,000 if Costco is considered a Discount Club or an additional $587,000 if Costco is considered a Discount Superstore? Do you think a half million dollars in additional cost is chump change for them too?

There is no way that Costco would build on land either rented or purchased from the developer.

[Stu from NYC]

Happy with the $800???
When do we all get the 25% reversed??
Should we be writing letters???
Are the commissioners getting impeached??


:shrug:

Time will tell what will happen do not think we will get it all reversed but some,

[Bill14564]

There is no way that Costco would build on land either rented or purchased from the developer.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Those impact fees apply to anywhere in the county. If Costco wants to build on a location in Sumter County then the impact fee it will be required to pay was just increased by an amount between $360,000 to $587,000 depending on how the store is classified.

[Carla B]

I had no opinion on this subject until I read the front-page article in the Daily Sun a few days ago.

It said the 25% tax increase we had in 2019 raised about 51 million dollars. Out of that amount, about 41 million was spent on roads.

That seemed outlandish to me. 80% of our tax money spent on roads. That is why I am in favor of increasing the impact fee for new construction.

Yes, and it said that the 40+/- million for roads included repaving Buena Vista and Morse Blvd. So I wonder how much it cost to do those two roads and how much went for roads south of Hwy. 44.

[tophcfa]

The State bill will not pass. $2mil/yr will not have a significant impact on taxes, a study should have been completed...............could have been completed in less than 30 days.

Perhaps you will be proven correct. However, if I was in the Commissioners shoes, I would not have taken the risk of assuming the State bill would not pass.

If I made that assumption and the bill did pass, I would have felt that I breached my fiduciary responsibility to the residential taxpayers of the county. The timing of the State Bill indicated strongly that someone was playing dirty pool.

[tophcfa]

Abrogation of their fiduciary responsibility for political expediency is never "the right thing to do".

Putting the Commissioners in the unfortunate position of having to expedite the process is never “the right thing to do”.

[dewilson58]

Putting the Commissioners in the unfortunate position of having to expedite the process is never “the right thing to do”.
A strategy by the family????? Could be.

[dewilson58]

Perhaps you will be proven correct. However, if I was in the Commissioners shoes, I would not have taken the risk of assuming the State bill would not pass.
Even IF it's not retroactive, the increase only collected ~$2mil and will not put a dent in the $50mil collected. I think it was an extremely weak showing for all the promising to the voters.

[tophcfa]

Even IF it's not retroactive, the increase only collected ~$2mil and will not put a dent in the $50mil collected. I think it was an extremely weak showing for all the promising to the voters.

Agreed, the voters were over promised. That being said, the new commissioners did what they could without over reaching on impact fees and it is still better than what would have happened if the prior 5 commissioners were still all in office.

[Stu from NYC]

Even IF it's not retroactive, the increase only collected ~$2mil and will not put a dent in the $50mil collected. I think it was an extremely weak showing for all the promising to the voters.

Could be a first step.

[Stu from NYC]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Those impact fees apply to anywhere in the county. If Costco wants to build on a location in Sumter County then the impact fee it will be required to pay was just increased by an amount between $360,000 to $587,000 depending on how the store is classified.

What if Costco came to the county commissioners and said we want to build within the county and would supply say 500 jobs. Than say what will you do for us to incentivize building here.

Wonder what the county would do?

[Bill14564]

What if Costco came to the county commissioners and said we want to build within the county and would supply say 500 jobs. Than say what will you do for us to incentivize building here.

Wonder what the county would do?

I have no idea what the county would do. However, I suspect that waiving impact fees for one builder and not another is not an option.

What if a builder came here and said they wanted to build 60,000 homes, hire residents to support that construction, and obviously increase the property tax base. What would the county do for them? Today's answer - increase the building fees by 75%.

[Burgy]

Say goodbye to hopes of getting your Costco, Trader Joe’s or other favored retail outlets. Say goodbye to the Rick Scott Industrial Park attracting any big time distribution centers. Hope you’re all happy that you have stuck it to “The Developer”.
Wasn't very interested in having them. Those who are should just live in an overcongested population center

[Advogado]

Happy with the $800???
When do we all get the 25% reversed??
Should we be writing letters???
Are the commissioners getting impeached??


:shrug:

Your posts include a number of dollar amounts. Could you explain the source and your calculation? For example, your unsubstantiated revenue numbers SEEM to only include houses built by the Developer and not to include any houses built by others, as well as commercial construction built by anybody.

You also continuously quote the EMS Team as saying that the raising the Developer's sweetheart road impact fee would allow the massive property tax increase to be "completely reversed". To the best of my knowledge, and I followed their campaigns closely, you are misquoting them.

Rolling something back, which is what they actually promised, is not necessarily the same as revoking it-- although that would be the goal. How far back the property-tax increase can be rolled, if the Developer is finally required to pay for ALL his county infrastructure, can only be determined when the Commission contracts for an appropriate impact-fee study on the non-road infrastructure like fire, police, etc. Maybe more than a total rollback? I don't know, and neither do you.

[dewilson58]

Your posts include a number of dollar amounts. Could you explain the source and your calculation? For example, your unsubstantiated revenue numbers SEEM to only include houses built by the Developer and not to include any houses built by others, as well as commercial construction built by anybody.

You also continuously quote the EMS Team as saying that the raising the Developer's sweetheart road impact fee would allow the massive property tax increase to be "completely reversed". To the best of my knowledge, and I followed their campaigns closely, you are misquoting them.

Rolling something back, which is what they actually promised, is not necessarily the same as revoking it-- although that would be the goal. How far back the property-tax increase can be rolled, if the Developer is finally required to pay for ALL his county infrastructure, can only be determined when the Commission contracts for an appropriate impact-fee study on the non-road infrastructure like fire, police, etc. Maybe more than a total rollback? I don't know, and neither do you.
O Darling.....weak, weak, weak.
As posted, the $2mil is assuming a couple thousand Villages homes. It's not unsubstantiated. That has been your silly posts all along. TV sweetheart deal and the high taxes as a result and TV must pay for all improvements. If you want an all-in number, just ask the county. The future commercial numbers can not be calculated.


I heard both rollback and reversal. You too have posted reversal. I posted your quote a week ago. If you want to back away or say you never said it...........I don't care. That's ok.


Is that what you voted for???.................$800 increase for The Villages and costing them only ~$2mil. Are you happy???



Their ~$2mil increase in home prices will NOT PAY for all the improvements that you have been storming about.

[golfing eagles]

I hope all the increase the impact fee crowd is happy. Looks like they have successfully supported a shift in cost of new infrastructure from the tax base to new homeowners. Yeah, yeah, they repeatedly state that it is shifting the cost to "the developer", but we all know that is never going to be the case

But now that we have established a precedent for having those that benefit foot the cost, I have a list of further changes I would like to implement:

I have no kids here, so I don't want to pay school tax
I don't use the library, so I don't want the library tax
I don't need food stamps, or an EBT card, or whatever they want to call this handout today, so why should I pay for it?
I'll probably never need the fire department, so cross that off my list of taxes, but I'll be happy to use them on a fee for service basis
While I'm at it, let's get rid of all those taxes and fees on a cell phone bill that go to subsidize Obama phones and people who stiff the phone company, same with cable TV and my ISP.

Or, and this is just a wild thought.......
Perhaps those things benefit society as a whole and therefore the individual taxpayer indirectly, since there is a vested interest in a more educated population, one that is better read, one that is not starving on the street because their house burned down.
Just as residential and business expansion in TV benefit the county as a whole by providing jobs, new access roads, new firehouses and equipment, more retail shopping opportunities, etc. Just a thought, no need for any avocados to get their undies in a bunch:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Advogado]

O Darling.....weak, weak, weak.
As posted, the $2mil is assuming a couple thousand Villages homes. It's not unsubstantiated. That has been your silly posts all along. TV sweetheart deal and the high taxes as a result and TV must pay for all improvements. If you want an all-in number, just ask the county. The future commercial numbers can not be calculated.


I heard both rollback and reversal. You too have posted reversal. I posted your quote a week ago. If you want to back away or say you never said it...........I don't care. That's ok.


Is that what you voted for???.................$800 increase for The Villages and costing them only ~$2mil. Are you happy???



Their ~$2mil increase in home prices will NOT PAY for all the improvements that you have been storming about.

I retract nothing based on your post. While I am always glad to be educated, it sure sounds like your numbers are speculation. You still don't seem to want to understand that the Developer's sweetheart deal was not just the 40% on his roads. It includes the 0$ he pays for all his other county infrastructure. I give up repeating this to you.

Also, why should I dig out numbers from the county? You are the one citing the meaningless $2 mil, which is a number you seem to have pretty much pulled out of your ear. I have not cited numbers, because really meaningful ones will only exist after an impact study of non-road infrastructure.


Finally, would you please cite at least one instance where somebody on the EMS team, during the campaign, said that just making the Developer pay for his own county roads would allow a complete reversal of the 25% property-tax hike? I never heard it and I suspect that I paid a lot more attention to the campaign than you did. It has always been obvious that more than than would be necessary. If the EMS team was claiming that, you would have thought that the heavily Developer-financed puppet incumbents would have called them out on it. The puppets did not do so because the EMS team DID NOT MAKE FALSE CLAIMS.

BTW, I have no idea where you heard what you think you heard from the EMS candidates during the campaign. You would be more credible with some specificity.

Bottom line, the impact fee issue was decided by Republican voters, in the primary, 2-to-1 in favor of ending the Developer's sweetheart deal. Admit it. You lost.

[Advogado]

What about an additional $360,000 if Costco is considered a Discount Club or an additional $587,000 if Costco is considered a Discount Superstore? Do you think a half million dollars in additional cost is chump change for them too?

Think a little deeper.

First, where do your numbers come from?
Second, a higher County impact fee will be offset by lower property taxes. (The Daily Sun propaganda hides that fact.) The Costco financial analyst would consider all costs, including property taxes.
Third, for a company like Costco, building depreciation (the impact fee would depreciated, i.e., be written off and deducted over the life of the building) is a relatively minor part of total costs.

Don't rely on the Daily Sun for information affecting the Developer.

[Bill14564]

I retract nothing based on your post. While I am always glad to be educated, it sure sounds like your numbers are speculation. You still don't seem to want to understand that the Developer's sweetheart deal was not just the 40% on his roads. It includes the 0$ he pays for all his other county infrastructure. I give up repeating this to you.

Also, why should I dig out numbers from the county? You are the one citing the meaningless $2 mil, which is a number you seem to have pretty much pulled out of your ear. I have not cited numbers, because really meaningful ones will only exist after an impact study of non-road infrastructure.


Finally, would you please cite at least one instance where somebody on the EMS team, during the campaign, said that just making the Developer pay for his own county roads would allow a complete reversal of the 25% property-tax hike? I never heard it and I suspect that I paid a lot more attention to the campaign than you did. It has always been obvious that more than than would be necessary. If the EMS team was claiming that, you would have thought that the heavily Developer-financed puppet incumbents would have called them out on it. The puppets did not do so because the EMS team DID NOT MAKE FALSE CLAIMS.

BTW, I have no idea where you heard what you think you heard from the EMS candidates during the campaign. You would be more credible with some specificity.

Bottom line, the impact fee issue was decided by Republican voters, in the primary, 2-to-1 in favor of ending the Developer's sweetheart deal. Admit it. You lost.

I'm still looking for quotes from the candidates, but this guy Fenstermaker seems to have heard it. From his 12/27/20 article in the paper (https://www.**************.com/2020/12/27/its-time-to-roll-back-sumter-countys-25-percent-tax-hike/):

"The EMS Team promised to roll back the tax increase, making up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer’s impact fee to a reasonable level. "

and

"...the Developer’s sweetheart rate should be continued and our 25 percent tax hike not rolled back– as you guys pledged to do."

[Bill14564]

Think a little deeper.

First, where do your numbers come from?
Second, a higher County impact fee will be offset by lower property taxes. (The Daily Sun propaganda hides that fact.) The Costco financial analyst would consider all costs, including property taxes.
Third, for a company like Costco, building depreciation (the impact fee would depreciated, i.e., be written off and deducted over the life of the building) is a relatively minor part of total costs.

Don't rely on the Daily Sun for information affecting the Developer.

My information comes from the 2019 Road Impact Fee Study and several websites giving 144,000 square feet as the average size of Costco store.
(Interesting: If you were not able to do that simple research and calculation, what exactly do you base your assertions on?)

Show me your/any analysis that shows a half million dollars in savings from from property taxes.

Third, are you kidding? If writing off the impact fee is relatively minor then let's just set it as $50M and cover the entire 25% right there? It won't be done because it isn't that "minor." It would be nice if the tax laws were really that simple but they aren't.

[dewilson58]

Bottom line, the impact fee issue was decided by Republican voters, in the primary, 2-to-1 in favor of ending the Developer's sweetheart deal. Admit it. You lost.
I loss nothing.
As posted, I don't care if the discount is eliminated.
I don't think TV cares either...............they can add $1k or $2k to the price of a house.


The $2mil figure is not meaningless................it's an estimate of what TV might pay on a couple thousand new homes in one year. If you can't do the math take ~$800 impact fee increase on ~$2500 new homes.



I'm laughing at you...............the sweetheart deal (as you call it) is still in place. :1rotfl:
I don't care what EMS promised or didn't promise, I did not vote.
The voters may have voted to end the sweetheart deal, but the new commissioners have not ended the deal as you wished. :icon_wink:

[npwalters]

What about an additional $360,000 if Costco is considered a Discount Club or an additional $587,000 if Costco is considered a Discount Superstore? Do you think a half million dollars in additional cost is chump change for them too?

yes

[dewilson58]

.


So this thread is asking.................$800, are you happy??


You wanted the "sweetheart deal" to be eliminated.......was it??......NOPE.


You wanted the 25% increase to be rolled back.........how much needs to be rolled back to make you happy???

[Aloha1]

In what way did they abrogate their fiduciary responsibility?

Some would argue that their responsibility is to all their constituents, all the residents in the county. If this action increases income which leads to reduced taxes while not negatively impacting the future stability of the county finances, isn't that exactly what they are supposed to do?

Simply put, their PRIMARY responsibility is to properly research and debate any and all issues that affect the County's ability to grow and prosper. They said they would do just that and then convene in July to debate and perhaps vote. Instead, they did not research nor did they bring in any outside consultation . They went ahead without really knowing what they were doing because, "Well we sort said we'd do this if elected", REGARDLESS of the consequences.

That is a failure of their responsibility.This is not like a parent screwing up with a child, this is screwing with the futures and livelihoods of tens of thousands of working Sumter County residents because a bunch of retired transplants developed a severe case of NIMBY.

[Aloha1]

Yes, and it said that the 40+/- million for roads included repaving Buena Vista and Morse Blvd. So I wonder how much it cost to do those two roads and how much went for roads south of Hwy. 44.

And why should that matter? They are ALL in Sumter County. Do you think the world stops at the end of your street?

[Aloha1]

Putting the Commissioners in the unfortunate position of having to expedite the process is never “the right thing to do”.

Bull. They jumped the gun because their agenda was threatened, ignoring their duty to learn before acting.

[Aloha1]

What if Costco came to the county commissioners and said we want to build within the county and would supply say 500 jobs. Than say what will you do for us to incentivize building here.

Wonder what the county would do?

Say, "we don't want you. We are just fine with the few stores we already have. " Again totally ignoring what others may want.

[Aloha1]

I hope all the increase the impact fee crowd is happy. Looks like they have successfully supported a shift in cost of new infrastructure from the tax base to new homeowners. Yeah, yeah, they repeatedly state that it is shifting the cost to "the developer", but we all know that is never going to be the case

But now that we have established a precedent for having those that benefit foot the cost, I have a list of further changes I would like to implement:

I have no kids here, so I don't want to pay school tax
I don't use the library, so I don't want the library tax
I don't need food stamps, or an EBT card, or whatever they want to call this handout today, so why should I pay for it?
I'll probably never need the fire department, so cross that off my list of taxes, but I'll be happy to use them on a fee for service basis
While I'm at it, let's get rid of all those taxes and fees on a cell phone bill that go to subsidize Obama phones and people who stiff the phone company, same with cable TV and my ISP.

Or, and this is just a wild thought.......
Perhaps those things benefit society as a whole and therefore the individual taxpayer indirectly, since there is a vested interest in a more educated population, one that is better read, one that is not starving on the street because their house burned down.
Just as residential and business expansion in TV benefit the county as a whole by providing jobs, new access roads, new firehouses and equipment, more retail shopping opportunities, etc. Just a thought, no need for any avocados to get their undies in a bunch:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
I'll be more blunt, spend not one more dime on anything north of 466. after all, they have all they want and do not want anyone else to have anything more.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'll be more blunt, spend not one more dime on anything north of 466. after all, they have all they want and do not want anyone else to have anything more.

I'd rather they just stop building, so the revenue we do get can be more efficiently spread around, and benefit everyone who's already living here, instead of people 30 miles away in another county.

[Joe V.]

I'll be more blunt, spend not one more dime on anything north of 466. after all, they have all they want and do not want anyone else to have anything more.


I do get a real sense of that selfish attitude of some of those who live in the cramped and old villages, not all though.

[Advogado]

I'm still looking for quotes from the candidates, but this guy Fenstermaker seems to have heard it. From his 12/27/20 article in the paper (https://www.**************.com/2020/12/27/its-time-to-roll-back-sumter-countys-25-percent-tax-hike/):

"The EMS Team promised to roll back the tax increase, making up the lost revenue by increasing the Developer’s impact fee to a reasonable level. "

and

"...the Developer’s sweetheart rate should be continued and our 25 percent tax hike not rolled back– as you guys pledged to do."

Yes, 'roll back". To reiterate: The Developer's sweetheart impact fee is rate is two fold: $972/house for the road impact fee indicated by the 2019 study and $0/house for any other infrastructure that he should be paying for. The road impact fee should be increased to 100% of the permissible amount and an impact fee should be imposed for other infrastructure as determined by a new impact-fee study.

Will the additional revenue allow the property-tax rollback be in the full amount of the tax increase or maybe even more? As I have repeatedly said, we won't know until the impact-fee study on non-road infrastructure is completed.

[tophcfa]

Bull. They jumped the gun because their agenda was threatened, ignoring their duty to learn before acting.

Wrong, they were threatened that if they didn’t act immediately, they would no longer have the ability to act at all. What exactly do you not understand about the State bill that a certain party snuck into the equation. Ignoring the inconvenient truth does not make it go away.

[dewilson58]

Wrong, they were threatened that if they didn’t act immediately, they would no longer have the ability to act at all. What exactly do you not understand about the State bill that a certain party snuck into the equation. Ignoring the inconvenient truth does not make it go away.


But isn't the State Bill retro back to January 1st so no need to knee jerk??

[collie1228]

What a joke this whole issue is. The Villages is generating new residents at one of the fastest rates in the country, against an incredible stable population of over 130 thousand, mostly middle class and upper middle class residents with incredible amounts of disposable income. Do you really think that a larger one-time tax requirement will stop most businesses from building here? Especially well-capitalized businesses like those mentioned here, like Costco and Trader Joe's? I don't.

[Velvet]

I do get a real sense of that selfish attitude of some of those who live in the cramped and old villages, not all the hough.

You buy a place in a quiet cottage like area (pasture land in this case) and they want to turn it into a dense, congested city, like Orlando. And you are selfish if you don’t like it?

[Jennifer2020]

The County Commissioners have a fiduciary duty to do their due diligence when making a decision that will significantly impact the county. They failed to do so by rushing thru their decision. The 2019 Road Impact Study should be updated or a new study done. An increase in businesses in the county would help offset personal property taxes.

[Bogie Shooter]

I do get a real sense of that selfish attitude of some of those who live in the cramped and old villages, not all though.

And what village do you live in?
Rather uppity to be calling old villages cramped.
What say you?

[Joe V.]

And what village do you live in?
Rather uppity to be calling old villages cramped.
What say you?


They are. Just a fact. What village do you live in? I can have my opinion no matter where I live in The Villages.

[Bogie Shooter]

They are. Just a fact. What village do you live in? I can have my opinion no matter where I live in The Villages.

Ah, Hah! :a040:

[Aloha1]

Wrong, they were threatened that if they didn’t act immediately, they would no longer have the ability to act at all. What exactly do you not understand about the State bill that a certain party snuck into the equation. Ignoring the inconvenient truth does not make it go away.

I understand the 3 amigos acted without thinking.

[Aloha1]

Yes, 'roll back". To reiterate: The Developer's sweetheart impact fee is rate is two fold: $972/house for the road impact fee indicated by the 2019 study and $0/house for any other infrastructure that he should be paying for. The road impact fee should be increased to 100% of the permissible amount and an impact fee should be imposed for other infrastructure as determined by a new impact-fee study.

Will the additional revenue allow the property-tax rollback be in the full amount of the tax increase or maybe even more? As I have repeatedly said, we won't know until the impact-fee study on non-road infrastructure is completed.

You already know it won't since it can only be used for roads. Lord save us from do gooders since they know not what they do.

[Stu from NYC]

I understand the 3 amigos acted without thinking.

Not so sure about that, give this some time.

[tophcfa]

I understand the 3 amigos acted without thinking.

Your understanding is incorrect.

[Advogado]

You already know it won't since it can only be used for roads. Lord save us from do gooders since they know not what they do.
Simple math: If "it" is used for roads, general revenues won't have to be and property taxes can be reduced. Bottom line: The current residents of Sumter County have been subsidizing the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. By a 2-to-1 margin in the last election, we voted to stop.

[npwalters]

Simple math: If "it" is used for roads, general revenues won't have to be and property taxes can be reduced. Bottom line: The current residents of Sumter County have been subsidizing the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages. By a 2-to-1 margin in the last election, we voted to stop.

We know the impact fee will eventually get passed to the buyer of the home, business, etc. At least it is being paid by those that directly benefit.

Many of us would love to see the rampant expansion stop.