mRNA Vaccines Are NOT Gene Therapy

[coffeebean]

I have read on this forum countless times (specifically from one poster) that the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines. If I recall correctly, there is intimation that these vaccines are actually gene therapy. Seems these vaccines are referred to as "vaccines" everywhere with the exception of the poster on this forum.

Here is an article that debukes that the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy. I apologize if you don't think the source I used is reliable. I did look up the bias rating on Forbes and they are middle of the road so really no bias there...............

Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines Are Not ‘Gene Therapy,’ As Some Are Claiming (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/17/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-not-gene-therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=38af2a163d20)

[golfing eagles]

I have read on this forum countless times (specifically from one poster) that the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines. If I recall correctly, there is intimation that these vaccines are actually gene therapy. Seems these vaccines are referred to as "vaccines" everywhere with the exception of the poster on this forum.

Here is an article that debukes that the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy. I apologize if you don't think the source I used is reliable. I did look up the bias rating on Forbes and they are middle of the road so really no bias there...............

Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines Are Not ‘Gene Therapy,’ As Some Are Claiming (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/17/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-not-gene-therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=38af2a163d20)

I doubt you'll convince that poster

[coffeebean]

I doubt you'll convince that poster

I know. He/she seems hell bent on getting his/her word out.

What are your thoughts about this article? Gene therapy or not?

[golfing eagles]

I know. He/she seems hell bent on getting his/her word out.

What are your thoughts about this article? Gene therapy or not?

I'll say NOT gene therapy since it does not alter genes

[Aces4]

I'll say NOT gene therapy since it does not alter genes

I have no opinion one way or the other regarding the vaccine being gene therapy, I haven’t researched it.

I am surprised, though, that a gal I know had developed a skin condition called “stucco” a few years ago and was lamenting she wouldn’t be wearing shorts this summer because of it. A week after the vaccine shot, the stucco disappeared from her legs and arms. It’s completely gone and she is thrilled. Nothing else in her life had been done differently. Any theories from the medical pros here?

[chet2020]

A joke apparently circulating around the Russian Internet. "If you think mRNA changes your DNA, here's your chance."

[Cobullymom]

I know. He/she seems hell bent on getting his/her word out.

What are your thoughts about this article? Gene therapy or not?
As are you...those in glass houses...

[La lamy]

I know. He/she seems hell bent on getting his/her word out.

What are your thoughts about this article? Gene therapy or not?

My thought about this article is "It's got a paywall!" :(

[allsport]

Every time I read the nonsense about the vaccines that is not true, I am reminded that the posters are the ones that took a nap in science class.

[crash]

I know. He/she seems hell bent on getting his/her word out.

What are your thoughts about this article? Gene therapy or not?

The vaccines have no DNA and do not affect our DNA in anyway so not gene therapy.

The definition of vaccine is something when administered produces an immune response that prevents a disease. Those of us who have had COVID know it is a disease and no one who has had the vaccine has been hospitalized or died so if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and walks like a duck it is a duck.

[golfing eagles]

The vaccines have no DNA and do not affect our DNA in anyway so not gene therapy.

The definition of vaccine is something when administered produces an immune response that prevents a disease. Those of us who have had COVID know it is a disease and no one who has had the vaccine has been hospitalized or died so if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and walks like a duck it is a duck.

And yet there will still be people who insist it's an elephant:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[GeriS]

I have read on this forum countless times (specifically from one poster) that the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines. If I recall correctly, there is intimation that these vaccines are actually gene therapy. Seems these vaccines are referred to as "vaccines" everywhere with the exception of the poster on this forum.

Here is an article that debukes that the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy. I apologize if you don't think the source I used is reliable. I did look up the bias rating on Forbes and they are middle of the road so really no bias there...............

Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines Are Not ‘Gene Therapy,’ As Some Are Claiming (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/17/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-not-gene-therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=38af2a163d20)
Look at who wrote the article & his credentials. He is not a doctor & there are many doctors who disagree.

[GeriS]

The vaccines have no DNA and do not affect our DNA in anyway so not gene therapy.

The definition of vaccine is something when administered produces an immune response that prevents a disease. Those of us who have had COVID know it is a disease and no one who has had the vaccine has been hospitalized or died so if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and walks like a duck it is a duck.
Then why is there pig dna in it?

[golfing eagles]

Look at who wrote the article & his credentials. He is not a doctor & there are many doctors who disagree.

Are you saying that there are "doctors" who believe the mRNA VACCINES are "gene therapy"????? Please name them so I can refer them to a good psychiatrist.

gene therapy
[jēn ˈTHerəpē]
NOUN
the transplantation of normal genes into cells in place of missing or defective ones in order to correct genetic disorders.

[Altavia]

I have no opinion one way or the other regarding the vaccine being gene therapy, I haven’t researched it.

I am surprised, though, that a gal I know had developed a skin condition called “stucco” a few years ago and was lamenting she wouldn’t be wearing shorts this summer because of it. A week after the vaccine shot, the stucco disappeared from her legs and arms. It’s completely gone and she is thrilled. Nothing else in her life had been done differently. Any theories from the medical pros here?

Maybe because it woke up her immune system?

Saw a study reporting a trend for 40-50% of long haulers reporting improvement after vaccination.

[golfing eagles]

Then why is there pig dna in it?

Source, please

[golfing eagles]

Maybe because it woke up her immune system?

Saw a study reporting a trend for 40-50% of long haulers reporting improvement after vaccination.

There is no known cause for stucco keratosis, but one theory is that HPV is the etiologic agent (Human Papillomavirus). If so, it's not out of the realm of possibility that a mRNA vaccine against a coronavirus has some crossover effect on HPV.

[tsmall22204]

So many doctors, so little knowledge

[merrymini]

Many doctors disagree with other doctors, which are correct? This may be the best thing since sliced bread but I do not want to be the experiment that finds out.

[Malsua]

I have no opinion one way or the other regarding the vaccine being gene therapy, I haven’t researched it.

I am surprised, though, that a gal I know had developed a skin condition called “stucco” a few years ago and was lamenting she wouldn’t be wearing shorts this summer because of it. A week after the vaccine shot, the stucco disappeared from her legs and arms. It’s completely gone and she is thrilled. Nothing else in her life had been done differently. Any theories from the medical pros here?

The vaccine is not Gene therapy as stated in the OP.
I am not a pro, although I did quite a lot of the biology in College and worked in the medical field beside genius level medical doctors. I went to the technical side rather than the medical part though. I'm not in that now though, but I have a pretty good background in it.

I say that because I built medical billing systems and I was the guy who had to understand everything. I recall seeing Stucco on one of the GPs medical record technical audits. A technical audit was simply running a database against a different database to make sure that the submitted records wouldn't bounce back from the insurance upload. This one did(Stucco??? You doing a remodel??), so I figured it was an error or typo and I learned something new!

I recall that this condition spontaneously remits most of the time. I also recall being told that having a different condition that makes you sick, can cause it to remit. This is probably because the condition affects the outer dermis and it isn't well vascularized. Meaning that in times of sickness, when your immune system is pumping out a LOT of T-cells, they might take notice of it and clear it up.

The same thing happens with warts. I recall one patient who had warts all over, including her face. They tried all the creams and a few internal drugs to some limited success. Ultimately that failed, so every couple months she came in to get the worst ones cut off her face. I remember the head doctor found one that was super deep and bled a lot. The nurses were unhappy with all the blood. Anyway, a few weeks later, her entire body cleared it! He told me that he finally got the immune reaction he was looking for since the virus was finally seen.

[Girlcopper]

And yet there will still be people who insist it's an elephant:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Very true. There are many who will find the most obscure articles from a rag newspaper written by a malcontent and believe everyword of it

[Larchap49]

I'll say NOT gene therapy since it does not alter genes

I really don't know because I have no idea whats really in it, and no amount of reading will reveal the truth. If you believe what the government and media are telling you is the truth I have a brand new bridge over the turnpike I'd like to sell you cheap.

[Larchap49]

The vaccines have no DNA and do not affect our DNA in anyway so not gene therapy.

The definition of vaccine is something when administered produces an immune response that prevents a disease. Those of us who have had COVID know it is a disease and no one who has had the vaccine has been hospitalized or died so if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and walks like a duck it is a duck.

Not saying it is or isn't a vaccine but apparently you haven't been paying attention because many people worldwide have died shortly after receiving the vaccine. Especially the single dose version. Of course you will have to look deeper than the government news source to find the real story and that has probably been true of every new vaccine but it happens none the less

[Notsocrates]

I have read on this forum countless times (specifically from one poster) that the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines. If I recall correctly, there is intimation that these vaccines are actually gene therapy. Seems these vaccines are referred to as "vaccines" everywhere with the exception of the poster on this forum.

Here is an article that debukes that the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy. I apologize if you don't think the source I used is reliable. I did look up the bias rating on Forbes and they are middle of the road so really no bias there...............

Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines Are Not ‘Gene Therapy,’ As Some Are Claiming (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/17/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-not-gene-therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=38af2a163d20)

Vaccines until now have been oroteins that stimulate an immune response. The new Maderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccine instruct the body to make the protein that stimulates an immune response. Is that "gene therapy?"

Call it anything you want. The technique will revolutionize medicine.

[Larchap49]

Very true. There are many who will find the most obscure articles from a rag newspaper written by a malcontent and believe everyword of it

Also those who listen to the government and any and all news sources and believe everything they say. Being in print or on television does not make it true either. Do a little research on government fabrications and lies over the decades and you will understand. How do you know when a politian is lying? His mouth is moving.

[golfing eagles]

I really don't know [if it is gene therapy] because I have no idea whats really in it, and no amount of reading will reveal the truth. If you believe what the government and media are telling you is the truth I have a brand new bridge over the turnpike I'd like to sell you cheap.

Vaccines until now have been oroteins that stimulate an immune response. The new Maderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccine instruct the body to make the protein that stimulates an immune response. Is that "gene therapy?"

Call it anything you want. The technique will revolutionize medicine.

OK, let's try this again for those that do not read (or comprehend) previous posts:

Definition of gene therapy:

gene therapy
[jēn ˈTHerəpē]
NOUN
the transplantation of normal genes into cells in place of missing or defective ones in order to correct genetic disorders.

The VACCINES (yes, they are vaccines)(definition: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease)

ARE NOT GENE THERAPY

[graciegirl]

Look at who wrote the article & his credentials. He is not a doctor & there are many doctors who disagree.

I cannot think of any REAL doctor or any doctor from any reliable or responsible institution that doesn't support being vaccinated against Covid-19 with one of the vaccines that have already been administered to almost 100 MILLION people in the U.S..

[RICH1]

I have read on this forum countless times (specifically from one poster) that the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines. If I recall correctly, there is intimation that these vaccines are actually gene therapy. Seems these vaccines are referred to as "vaccines" everywhere with the exception of the poster on this forum.

Here is an article that debukes that the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy. I apologize if you don't think the source I used is reliable. I did look up the bias rating on Forbes and they are middle of the road so really no bias there...............

Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines Are Not ‘Gene Therapy,’ As Some Are Claiming (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/17/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-not-gene-therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=38af2a163d20)
Any chance of giving out a vaccine to teach people to negotiate a roundabout! I'm thinking of purchasing an old pickup truck and teaching them to stay in their lane!

[Bucco]

Not saying it is or isn't a vaccine but apparently you haven't been paying attention because many people worldwide have died shortly after receiving the vaccine. Especially the single dose version. Of course you will have to look deeper than the government news source to find the real story and that has probably been true of every new vaccine but it happens none the less

Your source please for all your claims

"Many people world wide have died". "Especially the single dose version".

Please supply who is the"government news source"

Thank you

[coffeebean]

As are you...those in glass houses...

Absolutely correct on all counts.

[coffeebean]

Then why is there pig dna in it?

Honestly? I haven't heard that one. Link please.

[coffeebean]

Maybe because it woke up her immune system?

Saw a study reporting a trend for 40-50% of long haulers reporting improvement after vaccination.

That is wonderful news about the long haulers.

Some With Long-Haul COVID See Relief After Vaccination (https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210317/some-with-long-haul-covid-see-relief-after-vaccination)

[jbrown132]

I have read on this forum countless times (specifically from one poster) that the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines. If I recall correctly, there is intimation that these vaccines are actually gene therapy. Seems these vaccines are referred to as "vaccines" everywhere with the exception of the poster on this forum.

Here is an article that debukes that the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy. I apologize if you don't think the source I used is reliable. I did look up the bias rating on Forbes and they are middle of the road so really no bias there...............

Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines Are Not ‘Gene Therapy,’ As Some Are Claiming (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/17/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-not-gene-therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=38af2a163d20)

There is an article on the CDC web site that clearly explains how mRNA vaccines such as the COVID vaccine work. Put simply, when you are given an mRNA vaccine it goes to our cells and creates a protein or piece of a protein. Our bodies recognize the protein, which in this case is a “spike protein similar to the spikes found on the COVID virus. Our bodies recognize the protein should not be there and thus creates an immune response which produces antibodies. When the real virus enters our body the antibodies are there to kill the virus. The mRNA never penetrates the nucleus of the cell where our DNA is stored so it does not effect our DNA and is thus not gene therapy.

[coffeebean]

Not saying it is or isn't a vaccine but apparently you haven't been paying attention because many people worldwide have died shortly after receiving the vaccine. Especially the single dose version. Of course you will have to look deeper than the government news source to find the real story and that has probably been true of every new vaccine but it happens none the less

Which "single dose version" are you referring to? It can't be an mRNA vaccine because those are two doses necessary for immunization.

[coffeebean]

Vaccines until now have been oroteins that stimulate an immune response. The new Maderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccine instruct the body to make the protein that stimulates an immune response. Is that "gene therapy?"

Call it anything you want. The technique will revolutionize medicine.

I have had that opinion of the mRNA vaccines from the beginning. I think the technology is ground breaking but what do I know?

[Bigmo93]

People have different opinions, so what? Others have the right to a different opinion. That doesn’t make you right and them wrong or vice-versa. Believe what you want and move.

[coffeebean]

There is an article on the CDC web site that clearly explains how mRNA vaccines such as the COVID vaccine work. Put simply, when you are given an mRNA vaccine it goes to our cells and creates a protein or piece of a protein. Our bodies recognize the protein, which in this case is a “spike protein similar to the spikes found on the COVID virus. Our bodies recognize the protein should not be there and thus creates an immune response which produces antibodies. When the real virus enters our body the antibodies are there to kill the virus. The mRNA never penetrates the nucleus of the cell where our DNA is stored so it does not effect our DNA and is thus not gene therapy.
I'm aware of the article. I have probably linked that article at least a half dozen times on TOTV and other forums while discussing mRNA vaccines. I have had responses from people that do not trust the government agency. In fact, I was called a "conspiracy theorist' for linking articles from the CDC website. That was not on TOTV, however.

[PugMom]

Then why is there pig dna in it?

i thought is was mouse dna?:popcorn:

[rlcooper70]

Gene Therapy or not .... the mRNA vaccines are a huge advancement in science and the technology of medicine. Since the vaccines do not "alter the cells" of a human .... but why do we care?

[Joelack99]

...many people worldwide have died shortly after receiving the vaccine....
Excuse me? With respect to mRNA vaccines I believe the right answer is zero. They are extremely safe.

[jbrown132]

People have different opinions, so what? Others have the right to a different opinion. That doesn’t make you right and them wrong or vice-versa. Believe what you want and move.
I agree, every one has the right to their own opinion but not to their own facts.

[allenpegg1@gmail.com]

Look at who wrote the article & his credentials. He is not a doctor & there are many doctors who disagree.

Don't you wonder why so MANY in the MEDICAL PROFESSION refuse to get the shot(s)? And they ARE doctors!!!

[drducat]

Excuse me? With respect to mRNA vaccines I believe the right answer is zero. They are extremely safe.

From the CDC 2,216 vaccine related deaths.

"126 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 22, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,216 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS."

[Jean G]

For those who think there are no doctors against these vaccines, I offer this link to a highly credible organization of thousands of doctors who are trying to combat the vaccine and it’s lies.

America's Frontline Doctors – The Trusted Name for Independent Information (https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/)

[allenpegg1@gmail.com]

Ever wonder what happened to the 35k+ yearly flu deaths during the WuhanChineseCoronaVirus pandemic?

[Bill14564]

Ever wonder what happened to the 35k+ yearly flu deaths during the WuhanChineseCoronaVirus pandemic?

Is 35K supposed to be worldwide?

In the US the number seems to be about 8K per year according to the CDC (2018 was higher). In 2020 there were nearly 9K deaths from the flu. 2021 is starting off much lower, likely due to masking and physical distancing including remote work and remote school.

[graciegirl]

For those who think there are no doctors against these vaccines, I offer this link to a highly credible organization of thousands of doctors who are trying to combat the vaccine and it’s lies.

America's Frontline Doctors – The Trusted Name for Independent Information (https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/)

That link is to a source not trusted by traditional medicine. And that is the kindest way that it can be said;

America’s Frontline Doctors - Media Bias Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/americas-frontline-doctors/)

[Bucco]

For those who think there are no doctors against these vaccines, I offer this link to a highly credible organization of thousands of doctors who are trying to combat the vaccine and it’s lies.

America's Frontline Doctors – The Trusted Name for Independent Information (https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/)

Highly credible, you say.

The founder was arrested at the capital on Jan 6.

They were originated to support the false narrative concerning hydroxychloroquine.

They were part of a number of conspiracy theories and were removed from social media for lying.

'America's Frontline Doctors' Continue to Misinform on COVID | MedPage Today (https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90536)

Simone Gold Arrested for Role in Capitol Insurrection | MedPage Today (https://www.medpagetoday.com/washington-watch/washington-watch/90778)

[Bucco]

That link is to a source not trusted by traditional medicine. And that is the kindest way that it can be said;

America’s Frontline Doctors - Media Bias Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/americas-frontline-doctors/)

It is a mostly P group

[Bill14564]

From the CDC 2,216 vaccine related deaths.

"126 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 22, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,216 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS."

Fun with numbers.

330M people in the US
80M vaccinated (120M shots but many people received two shots)
2,216 deaths occurred in vaccinated people
60,000 deaths per week in the US
13 weeks from 12/14/20 to 3/22/21

2,216 deaths/80M vaccinated -> 0.0028%

13 weeks at 60,000 deaths/week = 780,000 deaths in the US with 777,784 NOT associated with receiving a shot

777,784 deaths / 250M not vaccinated -> 0.31%

Just from those calculations, you are 100 times more likely to die if you do NOT get vaccinated.

(Yes I know, correlation vs. causation, but it was fun to play with the numbers)

[petiteone]

Not saying it is or isn't a vaccine but apparently you haven't been paying attention because many people worldwide have died shortly after receiving the vaccine. Especially the single dose version. Of course you will have to look deeper than the government news source to find the real story and that has probably been true of every new vaccine but it happens none the less

Source please? How many is "many"? I'm a retired MD who reads medical journals and I have not come across any that cite that as substantiated and also found no references in legitimate news source that had a citation for "many" deaths after the vaccine. I can't find a source for even 1 death......and don't give me "the government is covering it up" excuse.

[cherylncliff]

Let's be very clear, the mRNA vaccines are NOT gene therapy and have absolutely NO impact on your DNA. RNA has a very short lifetime in the body. It is NOT incorporated into your DNA nor is it conserved when cells divide. During its very short lifetime in the body, it is used by cellular mechanisms to produce a protein that, in the case of the COVID-19 vaccine, looks like the spike protein of the corona virus. At that point, it's work is done and nothing else happens other than its destruction by the normal cellular machinery. That little piece of protein is recognized by your immune system as foreign and your body develops antibodies and other immune responses. Then, if you are exposed to live virus, your immune system is already primed to respond so you will not suffer any severe consequences from the infection. There is NO change to your DNA and there is NO change o your normally circulating RNA.

[Spalumbos62]

Not saying it is or isn't a vaccine but apparently you haven't been paying attention because many people worldwide have died shortly after receiving the vaccine. Especially the single dose version. Of course you will have to look deeper than the government news source to find the real story and that has probably been true of every new vaccine but it happens none the less


Now this stupid last statement is bull. Show the proof. You can't make off the cuff statements on here and expect anyone one to believe you. Have people died??? Yes..I believe a few have, but not 100% proven....but many, as you state.....no...not true

[Jacob85]

You are right and thanks for the article. The conspiracy theory people have come out of the woodwork with all their opinions that mean nothing and are probably costing lives of people who now won’t get the vaccine. It’s too bad they can’t be sued or suffer the consequences.

[stanley]

It’s too bad they can’t be sued or suffer the consequences.

The same can be said for the MSM and the "social media" sites.

[Jacob85]

There is no pig DNA in Moderna or Pfizer

[Bucco]

You are right and thanks for the article. The conspiracy theory people have come out of the woodwork with all their opinions that mean nothing and are probably costing lives of people who now won’t get the vaccine. It’s too bad they can’t be sued or suffer the consequences.

My guess, and that it is....a guess, but based on numbers provided to us (Columbia University for one) which says we lost 130,000 Americans due to our inadequate response and now begin to add those being lied to about the vaccines makes this an event of historic proportions.

In addition LANCET......"The Lancet is a weekly peer-reviewed general medical journal. It is among the world's oldest and best-known general medical journals.[1][2] It was founded in 1823 by Thomas Wakley, an English surgeon who named it after the surgical instrument called a lancet (scalpel).[3]...has estimated that a full 40% of COVID deaths could have been avoided.

So we continue with a message that will certainly cost more lives.

DEFINE_ME (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61591-9/fulltext)

Suddenly we are allowing non medical "professionals" (not the correct word because it does not address the motives) to rule our lives at what cost ?????

[oneclickplus]

I have read on this forum countless times (specifically from one poster) that the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines. If I recall correctly, there is intimation that these vaccines are actually gene therapy. Seems these vaccines are referred to as "vaccines" everywhere with the exception of the poster on this forum.

Here is an article that debukes that the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy. I apologize if you don't think the source I used is reliable. I did look up the bias rating on Forbes and they are middle of the road so really no bias there...............

Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines Are Not ‘Gene Therapy,’ As Some Are Claiming (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/17/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-not-gene-therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=38af2a163d20)

Referring only to the Moderna & Pfizer shots ... no, it's not gene therapy and there was no intimation that it was gene therapy. Your posting that it is NOT gene therapy does nothing to negate what it really is ... and deflects from the risk of mRNA.

For starters, it's not a vaccine (definition below for those who like truth). The mRNA shots turn your own cells into factories for producing the spike protein found on the surface of the COVID-19 virus. Therefore, the mRNA substance that is injected does not meet the definition of a vaccine as it in itself does not "stimulate the production of antibodies ...".

What is does is use your own cells to create a counterfeit copy of the spike protein. This essentially tricks your immune system into creating an immune response without the presence of the virus. So, any immune response is not from what was injected (hence, not meeting the definition of a vaccine) but rather from the proteins that your own cells will create by following the instructions in the mRNA that was injected. Sounds good, right?

However, this hijacking of your own cells to produce something (a task no prior "vaccine" has ever done) is rather permanent. Your cells will continue to produce this spike protein for as long as you walk the planet. My concern is that it will greatly lessen that time on the planet. This process of artificially creating a protein that is then considered foreign to your body and constantly provoking an immune response will continue whether you are exposed to the virus or not. With previous vaccines, a dead or attentuated virus is used to provoke an immune response so that your body is "ready" should it come in contact with the real virus (polio, etc). But, it is not constantly provoked as only a small amount of the target virus is injected. With mRNA, your immune system is constantly (and forever) fighting against a protein production that can't be turned off. Your immune system is constantly provoked to respond because the counterfeit spike protein is constantly being manufactured. This is the very definition of an autoimmune disease. Definition of that is also provided below for your review.

So, go ahead and get the shot (not a vaccine) if you think this is all BS. I read that all the major cruise companies are going to require a vaccine in order to sail. I wonder what they will do when their pool of preferred customers start dying off faster than expected.


Definition of a vaccine: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

Definition of autoimmune disease: A disease in which the body's immune system attacks healthy cells.

Note for anyone having trouble understanding. the "healthy cells" are the cells in your body that have been hijacked to produce a protein foreign to your body (the COVID-19 spike protein).

[golfing eagles]

Don't you wonder why so MANY in the MEDICAL PROFESSION refuse to get the shot(s)? And they ARE doctors!!!

Strange that I don't know of any......

[rmd2]

That is wonderful news about the long haulers.

Some With Long-Haul COVID See Relief After Vaccination (https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210317/some-with-long-haul-covid-see-relief-after-vaccination)

Yes I also read about that. Long haulers were given the vaccine and within a very short time were completely healthy. It's great news for those suffering from the long haul Covid.

[fritzy]

The vaccines have no DNA and do not affect our DNA in anyway so not gene therapy.

The definition of vaccine is something when administered produces an immune response that prevents a disease. Those of us who have had COVID know it is a disease and no one who has had the vaccine has been hospitalized or died so if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and walks like a duck it is a duck.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) told The Epoch Times in an email that as of March 8, more than 92 million doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 had been administered, with 1,637 deaths occurring following the injections in the United States.

[Malsua]

With mRNA, your immune system is constantly (and forever) fighting against a protein production that can't be turned off.

Nonsense.

Do you continue to produce Sars-Cov2 after you've beat the disease? No? Why not? Sars-Cov2 uses messenger RNA to produce the virus in your own cells. Do these continue to make it forever?

No, they don't. Why? The cells that were hijacked produce a signal and t-cells come along and spew a bunch of cytotoxin on them and THEY DIE.

This is exactly what happens to the cells that produced the spike protein from the MRNA Vaccine. They die.

Your system will clear all evidence of it ever being there in a few days at most. Your body isn't in a 100 years war against it until you die.

[golfing eagles]

Referring only to the Moderna & Pfizer shots ... no, it's not gene therapy and there was no intimation that it was gene therapy. Your posting that it is NOT gene therapy does nothing to negate what it really is ... and deflects from the risk of mRNA.

For starters, it's not a vaccine (definition below for those who like truth). The mRNA shots turn your own cells into factories for producing the spike protein found on the surface of the COVID-19 virus. Therefore, the mRNA substance that is injected does not meet the definition of a vaccine as it in itself does not "stimulate the production of antibodies ...".

What is does is use your own cells to create a counterfeit copy of the spike protein. This essentially tricks your immune system into creating an immune response without the presence of the virus. So, any immune response is not from what was injected (hence, not meeting the definition of a vaccine) but rather from the proteins that your own cells will create by following the instructions in the mRNA that was injected. Sounds good, right?

However, this hijacking of your own cells to produce something (a task no prior "vaccine" has ever done) is rather permanent. Your cells will continue to produce this spike protein for as long as you walk the planet. My concern is that it will greatly lessen that time on the planet. This process of artificially creating a protein that is then considered foreign to your body and constantly provoking an immune response will continue whether you are exposed to the virus or not. With previous vaccines, a dead or attentuated virus is used to provoke an immune response so that your body is "ready" should it come in contact with the real virus (polio, etc). But, it is not constantly provoked as only a small amount of the target virus is injected. With mRNA, your immune system is constantly (and forever) fighting against a protein production that can't be turned off. Your immune system is constantly provoked to respond because the counterfeit spike protein is constantly being manufactured. This is the very definition of an autoimmune disease. Definition of that is also provided below for your review.

So, go ahead and get the shot (not a vaccine) if you think this is all BS. I read that all the major cruise companies are going to require a vaccine in order to sail. I wonder what they will do when their pool of preferred customers start dying off faster than expected.


Definition of a vaccine: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

Definition of autoimmune disease: A disease in which the body's immune system attacks healthy cells.

Note for anyone having trouble understanding. the "healthy cells" are the cells in your body that have been hijacked to produce a protein foreign to your body (the COVID-19 spike protein).

Fairly eloquent, but very, VERY wrong.

It is a vaccine, even by the definition that both you and I have given. So it's a 2 step process---big deal. Do you have any idea how many pathways in the human body are 20 and 30 step processes.

But more importantly, the mRNA does not " continue to produce this spike protein for as long as you walk the planet. ", it lasts AT MOST 2 days. I'd duck if I were you, because the other medical experts on this site are going to jump all over your post.

[golfing eagles]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) told The Epoch Times in an email that as of March 8, more than 92 million doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 had been administered, with 1,637 deaths occurring following the injections in the United States.

And NONE of those deaths were definitively linked to the vaccine

[Kenswing]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) told The Epoch Times in an email that as of March 8, more than 92 million doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 had been administered, with 1,637 deaths occurring following the injections in the United States.

But what is the breakdown of those numbers? So far most of the people that have received the vaccine have been the oldest of our population. How many of them were already circling the drain? Would they have died regardless of whether they received the vaccine?

As has been stated, correlation doesn't mean causation.

[brfree1411@aol.com]

Friends,
The worst thing you can do is give a person attention when they are incorrect in their posting. Remember what your mom told you about bullies, "IGNORE THEM", LOL

[golfing eagles]

Friends,
The worst thing you can do is give a person attention when they are incorrect in their posting. Remember what your mom told you about bullies, "IGNORE THEM", LOL

I disagree. Perhaps the worst thing you can do is give attention to a troll, but when someone posts INCORRECT information, those of us with expertise in a given field should feel obligated to correct it. I would hate for people to believe some of the medical crap that has been posted on TOTV over the years

[coffeebean]

From the CDC 2,216 vaccine related deaths.

"126 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 22, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,216 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS."

Do you not believe this claim? Are we being lied to? Personally, I don't believe we are being lied to.

[coffeebean]

For those who think there are no doctors against these vaccines, I offer this link to a highly credible organization of thousands of doctors who are trying to combat the vaccine and it’s lies.

America's Frontline Doctors – The Trusted Name for Independent Information (https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/)

You can not be serious with this link. I did a quick search of Dr. Simone Gold. She is a real peach. NOT!!!! I do not listen to this type of garbage. Sorry.

[coffeebean]

Referring only to the Moderna & Pfizer shots ... no, it's not gene therapy and there was no intimation that it was gene therapy. Your posting that it is NOT gene therapy does nothing to negate what it really is ... and deflects from the risk of mRNA.

For starters, it's not a vaccine (definition below for those who like truth). The mRNA shots turn your own cells into factories for producing the spike protein found on the surface of the COVID-19 virus. Therefore, the mRNA substance that is injected does not meet the definition of a vaccine as it in itself does not "stimulate the production of antibodies ...".

What is does is use your own cells to create a counterfeit copy of the spike protein. This essentially tricks your immune system into creating an immune response without the presence of the virus. So, any immune response is not from what was injected (hence, not meeting the definition of a vaccine) but rather from the proteins that your own cells will create by following the instructions in the mRNA that was injected. Sounds good, right?

However, this hijacking of your own cells to produce something (a task no prior "vaccine" has ever done) is rather permanent. Your cells will continue to produce this spike protein for as long as you walk the planet. My concern is that it will greatly lessen that time on the planet. This process of artificially creating a protein that is then considered foreign to your body and constantly provoking an immune response will continue whether you are exposed to the virus or not. With previous vaccines, a dead or attentuated virus is used to provoke an immune response so that your body is "ready" should it come in contact with the real virus (polio, etc). But, it is not constantly provoked as only a small amount of the target virus is injected. With mRNA, your immune system is constantly (and forever) fighting against a protein production that can't be turned off. Your immune system is constantly provoked to respond because the counterfeit spike protein is constantly being manufactured. This is the very definition of an autoimmune disease. Definition of that is also provided below for your review.

So, go ahead and get the shot (not a vaccine) if you think this is all BS. I read that all the major cruise companies are going to require a vaccine in order to sail. I wonder what they will do when their pool of preferred customers start dying off faster than expected.


Definition of a vaccine: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

Definition of autoimmune disease: A disease in which the body's immune system attacks healthy cells.

Note for anyone having trouble understanding. the "healthy cells" are the cells in your body that have been hijacked to produce a protein foreign to your body (the COVID-19 spike protein).

My apologies for intimating that you have said these vaccines are not vaccines but gene therapy. That was misguided of me to say that. All I know is that you insist that these vaccines are not vaccines and I made the incorrect assumption that you felt they are gene therapy. My bad.

Now, regarding your definition of a vaccine. That is the classic traditional vaccines that you must be referring to. Is that right? The mRNA vaccines are new advanced state of the art technology so the way they work is not in the traditional sense. Personally, I think this new technology and advancement in vaccine development is the best thing to come along since sliced bread. This technology does not frighten me in the slightest. In fact, I am so excited for mankind that this technology exists.

[coffeebean]

Fairly eloquent, but very, VERY wrong.

It is a vaccine, even by the definition that both you and I have given. So it's a 2 step process---big deal. Do you have any idea how many pathways in the human body are 20 and 30 step processes.

But more importantly, the mRNA does not " continue to produce this spike protein for as long as you walk the planet. ", it lasts AT MOST 2 days. I'd duck if I were you, because the other medical experts on this site are going to jump all over your post.

Thank you for being here for us.

[coffeebean]

Friends,
The worst thing you can do is give a person attention when they are incorrect in their posting. Remember what your mom told you about bullies, "IGNORE THEM", LOL
Isn't is better to set the record straight and not allow falsehoods to persist? My opinion, of course.

[Bucco]

Isn't is better to set the record straight and not allow falsehoods to persist? My opinion, of course.

If someone lies or posts totally incorrect information, not opinions, but passes of what they purport to be true and you know it is not can validate it is sourced from known liars, then I think you have an obligation to correct it and do it forcefully.

This is the kind of thing that is taking over our country......people lie and we accept it. We should never accept a lie or purposeful distortion of the truth.....that is enabling.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I have no opinion one way or the other regarding the vaccine being gene therapy, I haven’t researched it.

I am surprised, though, that a gal I know had developed a skin condition called “stucco” a few years ago and was lamenting she wouldn’t be wearing shorts this summer because of it. A week after the vaccine shot, the stucco disappeared from her legs and arms. It’s completely gone and she is thrilled. Nothing else in her life had been done differently. Any theories from the medical pros here?

Stucco keratosis is benign, doesn't turn into anything else, causes no discomfort, doesn't bleed, doesn't really "do" anything at all. It doesn't normally show up on the face, so the theory that sunlight has anything to do with it is mostly debunked. There is no known cause to it at all, and it doesn't normally go away on its own.

It had it on one knee years ago and I kept scraping at it whenever I shaved my legs and it finally stopped coming back.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) told The Epoch Times in an email that as of March 8, more than 92 million doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 had been administered, with 1,637 deaths occurring following the injections in the United States.

And of those 1637 deaths, how many were attributed to the vaccine?

(here's the answer for you: none)

Remember MOST of those vaccines in February and March were administered to seniors. Who is most likely to die: people under 65 or people over 65? (here's another answer for you: over 65). Older people die of old age, 100% of the time more than younger people do.

It is very likely that of tens of MILLIONS of vaccines, a thousand or two will be given to people who were on their deathbeds already.

[bobdeb]

"Intelligence is no guarantee against being dead wrong."

Carl Sagan


I'm currently waiting for my second shot. First one delayed beyond my control. And no flashing displays to follow once that occurs.

I know of some folks who I hold dear who will choose not to be vaccinated for personal reasons.

And they choose to remain anonymous due to the brain numbing nutcases out there.

[Topspinmo]

Many doctors disagree with other doctors, which are correct? This may be the best thing since sliced bread but I do not want to be the experiment that finds out.

That’s problem with paper degree’s, one can have theory on subject and another paper holder can dispute it. Now you have to have higher paper degree to trump (no not D. Trump) that degree theory. That’s difference between actually creating something proven than sometime that’s not fully vetted.

[stebooo]

Just curious. Your statement that forbes has middle of the road response. Doesn't that mean half half are positive positive and half are negative. That wouldn't be very specific conclusion to anything anything, but a roadblock

[Aces4]

Stucco keratosis is benign, doesn't turn into anything else, causes no discomfort, doesn't bleed, doesn't really "do" anything at all. It doesn't normally show up on the face, so the theory that sunlight has anything to do with it is mostly debunked. There is no known cause to it at all, and it doesn't normally go away on its own.

It had it on one knee years ago and I kept scraping at it whenever I shaved my legs and it finally stopped coming back.

Stucco often is small, bright white, large area of patches that can develop all over feet, legs and other areas occasionally and it is ugly.

Thank you to earlier posters who gave some insight into this condition.

[coffeebean]

Just curious. Your statement that forbes has middle of the road response. Doesn't that mean half half are positive positive and half are negative. That wouldn't be very specific conclusion to anything anything, but a roadblock


My comment was regarding the bias scale......left or right. Forbes is fairly moderate, so no bias. I thought I made that clear in my original post.

[Larchap49]

Which "single dose version" are you referring to? It can't be an mRNA vaccine because those are two doses necessary for immunization.

Astra Zenica (not sure of correct spelling) multiple people sick or dead , just put on hold in Norway. Problems throughout Europe. Google it

[Larchap49]

Source please? How many is "many"? I'm a retired MD who reads medical journals and I have not come across any that cite that as substantiated and also found no references in legitimate news source that had a citation for "many" deaths after the vaccine. I can't find a source for even 1 death......and don't give me "the government is covering it up" excuse.

You're not looking very hard, check Astrazeneca in Europe, Norway and other countries have put it on hold. If even a few deaths reported I'm sure many more reported as covid related. Try researching any vacinecin the last 100 years and many if not all had side effect, birth defects, miscarriages, etc. Some 10 to 15 years after. I'm not saying this one is any better or worse but if you believe what the fake news networks are reporting or what the government is telling you then you might consider you are a bit naive.

[Tmarkwald]

I have read on this forum countless times (specifically from one poster) that the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines. If I recall correctly, there is intimation that these vaccines are actually gene therapy.

Well, you know, it would seem that people on here from TV actually did something right in their lives so they can live here.

But I think some people just won the lottery. For those the quote "You can't fix stupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. Stupid is forever." may apply...

[coffeebean]

Astra Zenica (not sure of correct spelling) multiple people sick or dead , just put on hold in Norway. Problems throughout Europe. Google it
AstrZeneca is not being administered in the US. I do not believe AstraZeneca has even asked for appoval from the FDA but I may be wrong about that. What I am sure of, however, is the AstraZenec has not been given emergency approval for use in the US.

The AstrZeneca vaccine is not an mRNA vaccine. So, there is that.

[coffeebean]

You're not looking very hard, check Astrazeneca in Europe, Norway and other countries have put it on hold. If even a few deaths reported I'm sure many more reported as covid related. Try researching any vacinecin the last 100 years and many if not all had side effect, birth defects, miscarriages, etc. Some 10 to 15 years after. I'm not saying this one is any better or worse but if you believe what the fake news networks are reporting or what the government is telling you then you might consider you are a bit naive.

The benefits outweigh the risks for any vaccine, IMHO. It is a smart move to get vaccinated as there are a lot more people dying of Covid than of any of these vaccines that are currently in roll outs.

[John_W]

...

[Malsua]

I just got an email from my half brother in Philly, he tested positive for Covid two weeks ago and they told him he still has a two month wait to get any vaccine shot. So he was given an intravenous drug Bamlanivimab, which contains anti-bodies to help fight off the effects. He's 75 years old. Seems like Pennsylvania doesn't have their act together, especially when compared to Florida. My wife and I both had two Mederma shots already at Publix, and it's been over two weeks since the second shot.

NJ is just as bad. My wife 65+ hasn't been able to get an appointment, still, even as of this morning.

We're moving down permanently next week(after years of owning in TV) and appointments are open all over the place so we're just going to wait till we get there.

Of course there is this: As a 'Person of Color,' I Received a COVID-19 Vaccine Easily and Quickly | Frontpagemag (https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/03/person-color-i-received-covid-19-vaccine-easily-danusha-goska/)

Apparently if you were the in the right low income housing you could get your shot in January at any age.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The vaccines have no DNA and do not affect our DNA in anyway so not gene therapy.

The definition of vaccine is something when administered produces an immune response that prevents a disease. Those of us who have had COVID know it is a disease and no one who has had the vaccine has been hospitalized or died so if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and walks like a duck it is a duck.

From what I understand, this vaccine is different from many other vaccines in that it doesn't actually prevent you from contracting the virus. It prevents the virus from causing symptoms. So even though the virus enters your system you don't become ill. Or, if you do get ill, it's not as serious as it would be without the vaccine. It also prevents death.


Don't most other vaccines prevent the virus from actually entering your body?

[Malsua]

From what I understand, this vaccine is different from many other vaccines in that it doesn't actually prevent you from contracting the virus. It prevents the virus from causing symptoms. So even though the virus enters your system you don't become ill. Or, if you do get ill, it's not as serious as it would be without the vaccine. It also prevents death.


Don't most other vaccines prevent the virus from actually entering your body?

No vaccine can prevent any virus from entering your body. If it's in your body, you are infected. What a vaccine can do is stimulate your body to respond to the virus when it sees it.

Ideally, antigen presenting cells(APCs) like Macrophages that are floating around in your blood will detect the presence of the virus and activate Tcells. Macrophages themselves will do the blob routine, surround something and eat it. They present signals that will stimulate Tcells and ultimately bcell antibodies to go on the hunt so to speak. How robust this process is will affect how many of your cells will get the virus injected into them. Ideally that number is zero, but even in the most robust immune response some cells will get the virus in them. Soon enough killer T-cells will come along and those hijacked cells will die.

This MRNA vaccine is only different in the mechanism by which is stimulates the immune system to respond. The actual immune response is the same. Your immune system sees an invader and attacks it. The MRNA vaccine hijacks your own cells, like a virus does except the vaccine does not make your cells create more of the vaccine. If it did, the result of a self replicating vaccine would surely be fatal.

[Tmarkwald]

AstrZeneca is not being administered in the US. I do not believe AstraZeneca has even asked for appoval from the FDA but I may be wrong about that. What I am sure of, however, is the AstraZenec has not been given emergency approval for use in the US.

The AstrZeneca vaccine is not an mRNA vaccine. So, there is that.

AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 Vaccine Is Found to Be 79% Effective in U.S. Study - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/business/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine.html)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Astra Zenica (not sure of correct spelling) multiple people sick or dead , just put on hold in Norway. Problems throughout Europe. Google it

I've been able to find stories about three deaths possibly related to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

I also found this story that says that the EU says that there has been no indication that blood clotting is linked to the vaccine.

Oxford-AstraZeneca: EU says '''no indication''' vaccine linked to clots - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56357760)

Please post links to the stories that you found about multiple people sick or dead from it.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) told The Epoch Times in an email that as of March 8, more than 92 million doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 had been administered, with 1,637 deaths occurring following the injections in the United States.

About 55,000 people die each week in this country. March 8 marks about seven weeks since the vaccine was given. That means that about 385,000 people have died during that time. That's a bit over 1% of the total population.

A total of 9 million doses have been given to about 6 million people. One percent of those is 60,000.

Considering that most of the doses were given to people over the age of 65 one might think that the death toll from other causes would be a lot higher in that age group.

The 1637 deaths represents .00027% of the people that have been vaccinated. It's more likely that they died from causes other than the vaccine.

Does the CDC email state that the deaths were vaccine related?

[coffeebean]

AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 Vaccine Is Found to Be 79% Effective in U.S. Study - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/business/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine.html)

So, AZ has asked for emergency use authorization. Good to know. Thanks.

[Tmarkwald]

So, AZ has asked for emergency use authorization. Good to know. Thanks.

Thanks to the preparation and planning by the previous administration, the US is sitting on 300 MILLION doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine. We preordered lots of doses of all the vaccines in preparation for distribution as soon as possible...

FDA official: US AstraZeneca stockpile not in danger of expiring | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/543661-fda-official-us-astrazeneca-stockpile-not-in-danger-of-expiring)

[Tmarkwald]

rather than repost again and again, here is the thread....