Villages Growth - You Can Stop The Speculation

[rustyp]

The Villages VP of Sales Jennifer Parr revealed a few interesting facts in the first day of testimony in a federal trial Monday in federal court in Tampa:

• Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.

[j_vermilya]

I wish they could've asked under oath, wasn't the original promise that the development would stop at 44?

[rustyp]

Double today's population that will make The Villages the fourth largest metro area in population in Florida
1 Jacksonville
2 Miami
3 Tampa
4 The Villages

[Polar Bear]

...wasn't the original promise that the development would stop at 44?
LOL!! Development would stop...anywhere!?! Good one!! :)

[tvbound]

I'm not sure what type of time-frame she's referencing, but for the next +-20 years we expect to still be around, we're comfortable with buying between 466 and 466A, as we view that area as still being "the geographic center of the community."

[Stu from NYC]

The Villages VP of Sales Jennifer Parr revealed a few interesting facts in the first day of testimony in a federal trial Monday in federal court in Tampa:

• Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.

Do not think this is a surprise. What is the trial about?

[swissy]

Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.

So when and where will the next square(s) be built? Are there already plans or at least wishes?

[Carla B]

Double today's population that will make The Villages the fourth largest metro area in population in Florida
1 Jacksonville
2 Miami
3 Tampa
4 The Villages

OMG, more than Orlando, or does your figure include annexing Orlando?

[Altavia]

So when and where will the next square(s) be built? Are there already plans or at least wishes?

Yes, near the corner of 501 and 470.

Calling it a Lifestyle center combining recreation, with business/restaurant/shopping in one location near championship golf including:

A 400-acre “Medical Village” that will include a new UF Health trauma center that also will serve as a teaching hospital for medical students;

An “Urban core” shopping center near the medical complex and that will include complementary businesses;

Housing for doctors, nurses and other medical professionals;

A “Lifestyle Center” and some sort of town center;

A “Super-Regional” recreation center;

New golf courses, a Pitch & Putt and Putting Course;

A lake large enough to host regional or international events such as dragon boat racing, skiing, rowing, remote-controlled boats and sailing;

New bridges connecting the sprawling portions of the new areas, including one that will accommodate both multi-modal and automobile traffIc;

A second K-8 Villages Charter School campus and an expanded high school campus that includes a sports complex, gym, stadium and performing arts center, among other things;

A neighborhood near the new school campus for employees who work in The Villages (we’re guessing areas like Oxford Oaks and the Villages of Parkwood, not much-needed affordable housing for those with lower-paying jobs like cooks, waitresses, landscapers and sanitation workers who provide vital services to Villagers);

New recreation centers;

A new restaurant and pub; and

An indoor farmer’s market.

Community leaders have high hopes for expansion | News | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/villages/community-leaders-have-high-hopes-for-expansion/article_d2269d2c-d45e-11ea-b805-b7e18f12c0ba.html)

[2newyorkers]

At a tunnel on one of the southern golf paths a clever person put up a sign that said Disney World with an arrow pointing south.

[Altavia]

The Villages VP of Sales Jennifer Parr revealed a few interesting facts in the first day of testimony in a federal trial Monday in federal court in Tampa:

• Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.

What speculation, the purchase of the property and planning have been disclosed over the past few years?

If you don't like development, The Villages, and Florida, is not the best place to be.

[Homer49]

What speculation, the purchase of the property and planning have been disclosed over the past few years? ...

Yep - that quote in the original post in this thread is hardly news. You can see exactly that in all of the "Continuing the Dream" publications over the last year or so, including that map a few posts up. Those plans have been widely published in the paper, on their website, in promotional mailings, and in official youtube videos.

[rustyp]

Yes, near the corner of 501 and 470.

Calling it a Lifestyle center combining recreation, with business/restaurant/shopping in one location near championship golf including:

A 400-acre “Medical Village” that will include a new UF Health trauma center that also will serve as a teaching hospital for medical students;

An “Urban core” shopping center near the medical complex and that will include complementary businesses;

Housing for doctors, nurses and other medical professionals;

A “Lifestyle Center” and some sort of town center;

A “Super-Regional” recreation center;

New golf courses, a Pitch & Putt and Putting Course;

A lake large enough to host regional or international events such as dragon boat racing, skiing, rowing, remote-controlled boats and sailing;

New bridges connecting the sprawling portions of the new areas, including one that will accommodate both multi-modal and automobile traffIc;

A second K-8 Villages Charter School campus and an expanded high school campus that includes a sports complex, gym, stadium and performing arts center, among other things;

A neighborhood near the new school campus for employees who work in The Villages (we’re guessing areas like Oxford Oaks and the Villages of Parkwood, not much-needed affordable housing for those with lower-paying jobs like cooks, waitresses, landscapers and sanitation workers who provide vital services to Villagers);

New recreation centers;

A new restaurant and pub; and

An indoor farmer’s market.

Community leaders have high hopes for expansion | News | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/villages/community-leaders-have-high-hopes-for-expansion/article_d2269d2c-d45e-11ea-b805-b7e18f12c0ba.html)

In order for RT44 to be the geographic center of TV the southern boundary of your attached map would need to extend approximately 6 miles further south per my rough calculation. Look at that - possibly still room for speculation !

[Stu from NYC]

In order for RT44 to be the geographic center of TV the southern boundary of your attached map would need to extend approximately 6 miles further south per my rough calculation. Look at that - possibly still room for speculation !

At some point 44 will be considered the northern part of the villages.

[Altavia]

In order for RT44 to be the geographic center of TV the southern boundary of your attached map would need to extend approximately 6 miles further south per my rough calculation. Look at that - possibly still room for speculation !

They announced over a year ago acquiring property for expansion south of 470.

Leesburg approves annexing land to make way for more Villages homes - News - Daily Commercial - Leesburg, FL (https://www.dailycommercial.com/news/20200225/leesburg-approves-annexing-land-to-make-way-for-more-villages-homes)

" The new section, “Area B,” is about four or five miles south. It is north and south of County Road 48 and North Austin Merritt Road. There is a huge chunk of undeveloped property between the two Villages parcels owned by a developer called Secret Promise.

Area B alone allows for 1 million square feet of commercial and retail use and offices.

City commissioners also approved the addition of 226 acres for the Villages in a U-shaped adjoining Area B. "

Continuing The Dream: Volume 3 (https://www.nxtbook.com/thevillages/TheVillages/ContinuingTheDream_Vol3/index.php#/p/8)

The Villages(R) Community Map - Explore & Find Your Way Around (https://www.thevillages.com/map/)

www.sumtercountyfl.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/17092?fileID=40452

[billethkid]

At some point 44 will be considered the northern part of the villages.

(In my opinion) that position has already been filled...by CR 42.....the Northernmost E-W route in TV....to E-W CR 466 to the South.

[rustyp]

They announced over a year ago acquiring property for expansion south of 470.

Leesburg approves annexing land to make way for more Villages homes - News - Daily Commercial - Leesburg, FL (https://www.dailycommercial.com/news/20200225/leesburg-approves-annexing-land-to-make-way-for-more-villages-homes)

" The new section, “Area B,” is about four or five miles south. It is north and south of County Road 48 and North Austin Merritt Road. There is a huge chunk of undeveloped property between the two Villages parcels owned by a developer called Secret Promise.

Area B alone allows for 1 million square feet of commercial and retail use and offices.

City commissioners also approved the addition of 226 acres for the Villages in a U-shaped adjoining Area B. "

Continuing The Dream: Volume 3 (https://www.nxtbook.com/thevillages/TheVillages/ContinuingTheDream_Vol3/index.php#/p/8)

The Villages(R) Community Map - Explore & Find Your Way Around (https://www.thevillages.com/map/)

That does account for the missing 6 miles. Back to no speculation. But then again I'm not under oath. :coolsmiley:

[Road-Runner]

Any news of a better connection from the Turnpike to the St Catherines / Bradford area? Right now we have to drive a large square to roughly get back where we started exiting the highway. I know there's a multi-modal bridge planned crossing the Turnpike, just haven't seen how it connects to the surrounding roads?

[vintageogauge]

In order for RT44 to be the geographic center of TV the southern boundary of your attached map would need to extend approximately 6 miles further south per my rough calculation. Look at that - possibly still room for speculation !

They already announced that they bought huge farms all the way down to the outskirts of Bushnell and I'm sure there is a lot of land they own that is not public yet.

[vintageogauge]

So when and where will the next square(s) be built? Are there already plans or at least wishes?

You need to research Sawgrass, that is the new entertainment/shopping complex that is well under way, it will have outdoor entertainment and dancing, restaurants, bars, shopping, markets, and more. Take a ride down 501 past St. Catherine's and look to the left, it's an amazing complex and very large. They started selling homes and lots in the village of Citrus Grove now which is very near to Sawgrass and the new golf courses. Amazing progress north and east of the turnpike, there are so many villages in the works that it's hard to keep track of them.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

You read it here first. 44 will eventually separate something called Villages North from Villages South with separate governance in each. Or some part of the north side will be sold off to a developer. Look at the projected geographic size of the monster. It will be way too unwieldy as one unified entity.

[swissy]

You need to research Sawgrass, that is the new entertainment/shopping complex that is well under way, it will have outdoor entertainment and dancing, restaurants, bars, shopping, markets, and more.

That means there will be a 4th square (like Town, Market and Paddock Square) with daily live music?

[Garywt]

We have know for awhile, slightly after they bought the bankrupt Fenney area that the southern construction would double the size of the Villages. One parcel the plan is for 14,000 homes. For some of us the building is not an issue, does not bother us at all. They are contractors so they will keep going.

[vintageogauge]

That means there will be a 4th square (like Town, Market and Paddock Square) with daily live music?

It's not being called a square but yes music with a stage and dancing along with a lot of other stuff.

[Altavia]

That means there will be a 4th square (like Town, Market and Paddock Square) with daily live music?

The latest planning seems to combine the square notion with recreational facilities. Maybe in lieu of Couuntry Clubs?

The Lifestyle Center appears to be in addition to Sawgrass.

[vintageogauge]

The latest planning seems to combine the square notion with recreational facilities. Maybe in lieu of Couuntry Clubs?

The Lifestyle Center appears to be in addition to Sawgrass.

There are a couple YouTube videos that get into more detail regarding what is going in, there is nothing like this anywhere else in TV. I don't know if there will be a country club with the golf course or not, maybe at the other end of it.

[rustyp]

Related to growth ? I predict in the future our water bill in this area (like Las Vegas is today) will be our biggest monthly expense.

[kansasr]

It is approximately 21.57 miles from the northern boundary of CR 42 in Marion County down to the end of The Villages Land Company property in Sumter County. It is 12.29 miles from FL44 dues south to this same point.

The attached comes from the various property appraisers to indicate who owns what in this area.

88867

[G.R.I.T.S.]

I wish they could've asked under oath, wasn't the original promise that the development would stop at 44?

🤔 Where the hell did that come from? Never heard that statement!

[Altavia]

There are a couple YouTube videos that get into more detail regarding what is going in, there is nothing like this anywhere else in TV. I don't know if there will be a country club with the golf course or not, maybe at the other end of it.

Looking more closely, they show combining Village rec centers with championship golf, not a bad idea.

[nick demis]

At a tunnel on one of the southern golf paths a clever person put up a sign that said Disney World with an arrow pointing south.

Give it a few years and it may come to be.

[JoMar]

🤔 Where the hell did that come from? Never heard that statement!

It was never a promise but a business decision based on the direction from Wildwood and the County. They had a developer for what is now Fenney and when that developer went belly up they negotiated for the Morses to acquire the project and the Morses agreed if they could build back to 44. Since that area is Wildwood I suspect they agreed when they realized the revenue they would receive from taxes and fees. A recent comment by the Mayor confirmed that all came to fruition and will be channeled into the Wildwood area hopefully upgrading the town and surrounding areas. Couple that with all the farmers and residents that owned land going south and were willing to sell and not hard to see how the growth is occurring. Now of course we have those that want the growth to stop because "they got theirs" and want nobody else to "get theirs".

[bandsdavis]

I have never seen any comment or speculation about trying to add venues similar to these three in the southern parts of the Villages area. Two are professional level venues, and Savannah combines professional acts with the larger productions by a number of Villages resident groups. While there are a number of smaller venues available south of 44, none have the ability to hold large scale productions. It will be interesting to see how this changes the lifestyle for people in the "far south" compared to those of us north of 44.

[vintageogauge]

I have never seen any comment or speculation about trying to add venues similar to these three in the southern parts of the Villages area. Two are professional level venues, and Savannah combines professional acts with the larger productions by a number of Villages resident groups. While there are a number of smaller venues available south of 44, none have the ability to hold large scale productions. It will be interesting to see how this changes the lifestyle for people in the "far south" compared to those of us north of 44.

They are pretty tight lipped when it comes to future amenities until they are ready to break ground. There are lots of acres of non-residential land that they have on Warm Springs at Megisson and also at 301. Rumor also has it that there will be some major commercial building in the Sumterville area. Just have to wait and see, also no mention of a movie theatre.

[Two Bills]

Looking on the bright side, I will be about 105 years old when TV builds to the latest known boundaries!

[J1ceasar]

The geographic center is actually the bank of Morse. You guys seem to forget that they bought a huge piece of land in Leesburg as well that can hold 20,000 homes

[Mohawksin]

So when and where will the next square(s) be built? Are there already plans or at least wishes?

There are already plans, but you will not be able to see them as soon as you would like.

[richardc1947]

What about Orlando at 290k & St Pete at 267k (2020 census). 2020 census for TV tags us at 79k. Double that would put us at about 12th in Florida, and that would only be if all those other cities did not grow in the years it takes us to reach 160k. Remember that the figures that tag us at around 130k include all the snowbirds that have permanent residence elsewhere - just like the figures for all these other cities don't include their snowbirds.

[Skunky1]

We are soon to be considered the old section

[l2ridehd]

With these new plans to double in size, has to be time to start a new Costco thread. Let’s all go to their web site and let them know it’s going to double in size. Wait, maybe that’s why they built in Wellsey Chapel. They knew before we did that they would be close at some point.

[Cobullymom]

The Villages VP of Sales Jennifer Parr revealed a few interesting facts in the first day of testimony in a federal trial Monday in federal court in Tampa:

• Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.
Great, why does that upset people? So if you don’t want to visit those new areas stay where you are. It simply means more opportunities for those who own and live here. If you don’t like the sprawl, feel free to move. Each area has its own character and specialty, some areas are bustling with lots of retail, some are more directed towards recreational use, and some are quiet residential areas, no one forces anyone to go beyond what you enjoy. I don’t understand why people are so afraid of growth. Good for the Morse family for continuing to design and add to The Villages.

[dewilson58]

Great, why does that upset people?
Because some people just want to complain and some just hate The Villages and some hate the success of owners.


The information the OP state is nothing new.

[MandoMan]

Double today's population that will make The Villages the fourth largest metro area in population in Florida
1 Jacksonville
2 Miami
3 Tampa
4 The Villages

I don’t care as long as The Villages remains as beautiful, pleasant, and relaxed as it is now. If it were to become as crowded and crime- ridden as those other cities, I would be very unhappy. This is The Good Place. I love it.

[banjobob]

Growth will stop probably when no more land is available. The Villages concept is a winner and more want to become a part of it. Unless uncle Joe sinks the ship it will continue.

[Malsua]

Great, why does that upset people? So if you don’t want to visit those new areas stay where you are. It simply means more opportunities for those who own and live here. If you don’t like the sprawl, feel free to move. Each area has its own character and specialty, some areas are bustling with lots of retail, some are more directed towards recreational use, and some are quiet residential areas, no one forces anyone to go beyond what you enjoy. I don’t understand why people are so afraid of growth. Good for the Morse family for continuing to design and add to The Villages.

Hey! Those people 30 miles away are having fun, this cannot stand!

I live around Spanish Springs and adding thousands of more homes on the other side of the turnpike has really bumped up the cart traffic. Heck, around Christmas I has to wait an extra 2-3 seconds one day just to get on the Multi-modal path. When will the madness end! Oh, wait, the bridge wasn't open yet then. Nevermind.

[dewilson58]

Related to growth ? I predict in the future our water bill in this area (like Las Vegas is today) will be our biggest monthly expense.
Fake News.


Price of Water 2014: Up 6 Percent in 30 Major U.S. Cities; 33 Percent Rise Since 2010 - Circle of Blue (https://www.circleofblue.org/2014/world/price-water-2014-6-percent-30-major-u-s-cities-33-percent-rise-since-2010/)

[algi45]

No. The original promise was to stop at 466A! And that we would have a real hospital in that area. And on and on...

[Fredster]

I don’t care as long as The Villages remains as beautiful, pleasant, and relaxed as it is now. If it were to become as crowded and crime- ridden as those other cities, I would be very unhappy. This is The Good Place. I love it.

Apparently a lot of people feel TV is a good place!

[jimkerr]

The Villages VP of Sales Jennifer Parr revealed a few interesting facts in the first day of testimony in a federal trial Monday in federal court in Tampa:

• Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.

No surprise there. It’s a great time to buy in The Villages!

[dewilson58]

Never Promised You A Rose Garden




I Never Promised You A Rose Garden- Lynn Anderson - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTsoZbRb_ow)


:a040:

[acornhome]

Where did you read this?

[mlmarr1]

No money in squares only expenses...just homes... $$$$

[dewilson58]

Where did you read this?
Who you asking??


:shrug:

[mlmarr1]

Villages is a corporation..either love it or leave it.. live your life or move on..

[JoeManz99]

They won't stop until the Villages reaches Orlando !!!

[bluecenturian]

I'm not sure what type of time-frame she's referencing, but for the next +-20 years we expect to still be around, we're comfortable with buying between 466 and 466A, as we view that area as still being "the geographic center of the community."



Double today's population that will make The Villages the fourth largest metro area in population in Florida
1 Jacksonville
2 Miami
3 Tampa
4 The Villages

Where exactly did you get your info from.

Orange County has 1.4 million people, Sumter 136,000. Orange growth rate is 0.83%/sumter 2.36%. Quick rounding off of Sumter having a 2.00% greater increase would require at least 35 years steady growth rate by both areas for Sumter to eclipse Orange. That’s quite a bit of speculation.

[bluecenturian]

I wish they could've asked under oath, wasn't the original promise that the development would stop at 44?

So your real question is, why doesn’t the federal government restrict private people/companies from making a profit. I bet you would be happy in Venezuela or Russia or another socialist country. Give it a try.

[lindaelane]

This is land area, not population, that is why "Jacksonville" is number one. Miami has far more people.

[Uncle Pepe]

As one of the entertainers here in the Villages my duo "In Motion" welcomes the chance to have more opportunities to entertain a larger audience.

If the Villages can provide equal services to all it will be fun to see how it grows.

[vintageogauge]

No. The original promise was to stop at 466A! And that we would have a real hospital in that area. And on and on...

Read today's Daily Sun, you are getting a real hospital on 466A.

[vintageogauge]

No money in squares only expenses...just homes... $$$$

So you're saying there is no profit for them from the rental income from all of the retail stores and restaurants on the squares?? What exactly are the expenses for the developer within the squares??

[billethkid]

If TV does not develop adjacent properties to it's current development(s)........some other not so conscientious/responsible developer(s) WILL!!!!!

[stargirl]

I’m moved here from Tampa. I hope to one day move back but still live in the Villages!

[ribil]

That can’t possibly be true! When we bought in 2011 and they were preparing to start construction below 466A, we were told that that “final build out will be completed in 2015”! LIES. ALL LIES.

[dewilson58]

I’m moved here from Tampa. I hope to one day move back but still live in the Villages!


The Villages will be down to Tampa in no time.





:gc:

[kappy]

If all these expansion plans were already on the drawing board, why did all the developer’s friends and business partners and the local newspaper continue to tell us that raising impact fees will slow down growth?

[PugMom]

Because some people just want to complain and some just hate The Villages and some hate the success of owners.


The information the OP state is nothing new.

yes, yes yes & Thank You!!!

[Marathon Man]

I have never seen any comment or speculation about trying to add venues similar to these three in the southern parts of the Villages area. Two are professional level venues, and Savannah combines professional acts with the larger productions by a number of Villages resident groups. While there are a number of smaller venues available south of 44, none have the ability to hold large scale productions. It will be interesting to see how this changes the lifestyle for people in the "far south" compared to those of us north of 44.

The lifestyle is exactly the same for all residents of The Villages. All residents have equal access to all amenities, all medical facilities, all churches, all restaurants, etc. Our houses are located in different places, that's all.

[merrymini]

My only concern is water. Where are they going to get more of this nonrenewable resource? If you follow the population, they will not be able to maintain the age restriction because the swell of baby boomers will pass and there will not be enough people coming up that can buy here.

[paulajr]

Finally!! Someone who knows the FACTS about why the expansion started. We learned this in a meeting with the developers as well. Bravo.


It was never a promise but a business decision based on the direction from Wildwood and the County. They had a developer for what is now Fenney and when that developer went belly up they negotiated for the Morses to acquire the project and the Morses agreed if they could build back to 44. Since that area is Wildwood I suspect they agreed when they realized the revenue they would receive from taxes and fees. A recent comment by the Mayor confirmed that all came to fruition and will be channeled into the Wildwood area hopefully upgrading the town and surrounding areas. Couple that with all the farmers and residents that owned land going south and were willing to sell and not hard to see how the growth is occurring. Now of course we have those that want the growth to stop because "they got theirs" and want nobody else to "get theirs".

[Shellshack]

We just purchased a home in Sabal Chase and are very excited to hear that The Villages will be growing. We have seen government "controlled growth" in the north and are very pleased to be a part of this community. Growth is coming to this region. You can see numerous poorly built apartment complexes and other housing developments going up for miles in every direction around the Villages. While I am sure they will not build things to my personal specifications, I have far more confidence in the Villages than anything else I have seen. Remember, there were some in Congress who voted against the Louisiana Purchase! Glad to be a resident of The Villages.

[Chi-Town]

As long as they keep building they will keep up all the area. Build baby build.

[hal195z]

Who cares where the geographic center of TV is??? I live near Spanish Springs and have almost everything I need within 3 miles of my house. The new villages south of 466A are like another world and do not affect my life or lifestyle. As stated by a member of the swamp, What difference does it make?.

[glsatterlee]

That’s all right, you guys stay north of 44, we will handle it down here. No problem.

[kendi]

In order for RT44 to be the geographic center of TV the southern boundary of your attached map would need to extend approximately 6 miles further south per my rough calculation. Look at that - possibly still room for speculation !

That map doesn’t include undeveloped land that is currently owned by TV. Look at the map on TV website and you can see how far south they plan to build. Wouldn’t be surprised if more land purchases are in the works.

[jbrown132]

The latest planning seems to combine the square notion with recreational facilities. Maybe in lieu of Couuntry Clubs?

The Lifestyle Center appears to be in addition to Sawgrass.
Country clubs require land. Why waste land on golf courses when you can build, build build, build, build more houses. The dream of The Villages, envisioned by Harold Schwartz, and his son is dead. It’s all about the bucks now and you don’t matter.

[DAVES]

The Villages VP of Sales Jennifer Parr revealed a few interesting facts in the first day of testimony in a federal trial Monday in federal court in Tampa:

• Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.

i strangely refuse to worry about what might be. We have choices. I was a bit surprised to hear from a friend, a business acquaintance perhaps, he and his brother bought 140 acres in the woods of North Carolina. Far as I know he has a house that he is living in with his wife. Far as I know he is not one of the survivalist people buying freeze dried food. Another friend bought a home in Vermont on a short sale and is fixing it up.
The world is our oyster. If, we think, are sure there is a better choice than here you owe it to yourself to do it.

The expansion of the Villages is a plus and a minus. Crowded roads etc. The plus in my view, the Morrises are investing and planning on continuing to run this place. Read the posts on any of these threads. Imagine if the inmates were running this place.

Swearing under oath? What does that matter today? People have and continue to lie under oath. You misunderstood what I said. At the time, I thought-things have changed.

Whoever owns that land, like it or not has made money on their land.

[SacDQ]

Visit the new Villages Home Design building in Brownwood and you might want to change your opinion on the Center of the Villages location.

[Stu from NYC]

That map doesn’t include undeveloped land that is currently owned by TV. Look at the map on TV website and you can see how far south they plan to build. Wouldn’t be surprised if more land purchases are in the works.

As long as they make money hand over fist they will continue to expand. Still lots of land they can purchase.

[Polar Bear]

...The dream of The Villages, envisioned by Harold Schwartz, and his son is dead. It’s all about the bucks now and you don’t matter.
Yeah. Those nasty people who want to make money just make me sick. What kind of country do they think we live in?!? You can bet Harold didn't care about money!!
:ohdear:

[Bludot300]

Not surprised. We were told that Brownwood would be the center of TV a couple of years ago.

[rustyp]

The Villages VP of Sales Jennifer Parr revealed a few interesting facts in the first day of testimony in a federal trial Monday in federal court in Tampa:

• Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.

i strangely refuse to worry about what might be. We have choices. I was a bit surprised to hear from a friend, a business acquaintance perhaps, he and his brother bought 140 acres in the woods of North Carolina. Far as I know he has a house that he is living in with his wife. Far as I know he is not one of the survivalist people buying freeze dried food. Another friend bought a home in Vermont on a short sale and is fixing it up.
The world is our oyster. If, we think, are sure there is a better choice than here you owe it to yourself to do it.

The expansion of the Villages is a plus and a minus. Crowded roads etc. The plus in my view, the Morrises are investing and planning on continuing to run this place. Read the posts on any of these threads. Imagine if the inmates were running this place.

Swearing under oath? What does that matter today? People have and continue to lie under oath. You misunderstood what I said. At the time, I thought-things have changed.

Whoever owns that land, like it or not has made money on their land.

I have no ides what you are talking about. I have not responded to a post by you on this subject.

For the record to EVERYONE my original post is simply a cut and past from a media source we are not allowed to mention on this site. Not one word was mine nor did it hint at any opinion I may have about growth or the developer. Great sport watching you all do the whisper at the front of the line and watch the pass it on game.

[swissy]

They won't stop until the Villages reaches Orlando !!!

.. or the Everglades :D

[dadoiron]

They won't stop until the Villages reaches Orlando !!!

Nope won't stop until it reaches Miami and then runs out of land mass beyond the keys and poles to build on the water unless by then they can build in the sky then they just keep going going and we'll all be gone gone!!!

[rmd2]

Double today's population that will make The Villages the fourth largest metro area in population in Florida
1 Jacksonville
2 Miami
3 Tampa
4 The Villages

Yes, we are already at #5.

[allenpegg1@gmail.com]

So, what's this all about? Progress? Does anyone have a problem driving a golf cart from TV to Mickey's house???

[ProCaddie]

When I moved here in 2008 I was told by realtor that I better buy now because they will stop at 466A........

[rustyp]

Double today's population that will make The Villages the fourth largest metro area in population in Florida
1 Jacksonville
2 Miami
3 Tampa
4 The Villages

Yes, we are already at #5.

Depends on who is counting but I believe TV is around 140000 today. That is not a census number but more likely the number of houses multiplied by two occupants per.

Now below is 2020 census numbers whatever is counted in them:

Jacksonville (929,647)
Miami (478,251)
Tampa (404,636)
Orlando (290,520)
St. Petersburg (267,121)
Hialeah (230,135)
Port St. Lucie (215,922)
Cape Coral (204,549)
Tallahassee (197,974)
Fort Lauderdale (183,109)

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Great, why does that upset people? So if you don’t want to visit those new areas stay where you are. It simply means more opportunities for those who own and live here. If you don’t like the sprawl, feel free to move. Each area has its own character and specialty, some areas are bustling with lots of retail, some are more directed towards recreational use, and some are quiet residential areas, no one forces anyone to go beyond what you enjoy. I don’t understand why people are so afraid of growth. Good for the Morse family for continuing to design and add to The Villages.

My guess is it evokes a fear that the Villages will eventually break up into more manageable pieces, each with their own amenities and governance.

[rmd2]

When I moved here in 2008 I was told by realtor that I better buy now because they will stop at 466A........

I was told that too.

[allenpegg1@gmail.com]

So, what's this all about? Progress? Does anyone have a problem driving a golf cart from TV to Mickey's house???

[Altavia]

Country clubs require land. Why waste land on golf courses when you can build, build build, build, build more houses. The dream of The Villages, envisioned by Harold Schwartz, and his son is dead. It’s all about the bucks now and you don’t matter.

Most Country Clubs here are just a Restaurant attached to a pro shop. No reason not to share space and personell with recreational facilities,

There is more open land per rooftop south of 44 compared to North.

[Stu from NYC]

So, what's this all about? Progress? Does anyone have a problem driving a golf cart from TV to Mickey's house???

As long as you dont mind taking a day to do so

[Stu from NYC]

I was told that too.

Surprise:a040:

[petiteone]

The Villages VP of Sales Jennifer Parr revealed a few interesting facts in the first day of testimony in a federal trial Monday in federal court in Tampa:

• Parr said under oath that The Villages will double in size and that State Road 44 is now seen by the Morse family as the geographic center of the community.

Operative words: (....State Road 44 is NOW seen). How it is seen next week, or next year may be different.

[Villages Kahuna]

If you want to do a little map-reading, you’ll discover that from CR 42 on the north to the current residential and commercial areas being developed, The Villages is already longer from north to south than the distance from the southern border of Evanston IL to the northern border of Dixmoor IL.

For those of you unfamiliar with the geography that means that The Villages is already longer from a north to south than the City of Chicago!

[drcar]

No. The original promise was to stop at 466A! And that we would have a real hospital in that area. And on and on...

If I may ask, who made this promise, and was it in writing?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

My guess is it evokes a fear that the Villages will eventually break up into more manageable pieces, each with their own amenities and governance.

I'm more curious about what would happen if the next generation of heirs to the Morse family throne decides he doesn't want to deal with the Villages at all, and just gives it up.

[vintageogauge]

My only concern is water. Where are they going to get more of this nonrenewable resource? If you follow the population, they will not be able to maintain the age restriction because the swell of baby boomers will pass and there will not be enough people coming up that can buy here.

We early boomers have kids in their 50's already, there will be plenty of buyers, maybe not 7 new homes per day but they will still sell a lot of them.

[vintageogauge]

Country clubs require land. Why waste land on golf courses when you can build, build build, build, build more houses. The dream of The Villages, envisioned by Harold Schwartz, and his son is dead. It’s all about the bucks now and you don’t matter.

You do realize they are building more golf courses south of 44, right?

[Stu from NYC]

I'm more curious about what would happen if the next generation of heirs to the Morse family throne decides he doesn't want to deal with the Villages at all, and just gives it up.

By the time that would happen and effect us we will be long gone and our children can deal with it.

More likely the Morse family understands what they have going and hires professional managers and goes on an around the world cruise.

[jarodrig]

I wish they could've asked under oath, wasn't the original promise that the development would stop at 44?

No one “promised” you or anyone else anything !!

[Bilyclub]

If you want to do a little map-reading, you’ll discover that from CR 42 on the north to the current residential and commercial areas being developed, The Villages is already longer from north to south than the distance from the southern border of Evanston IL to the northern border of Dixmoor IL.

For those of you unfamiliar with the geography that means that The Villages is already longer from a north to south than the City of Chicago!


No, not really. I even spotted TV a mile or two.

[Joe V.]

No, not really. I even spotted TV a mile or two.

Doesn't take 6 hours to drive the length of TV though.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

In order for RT44 to be the geographic center of TV the southern boundary of your attached map would need to extend approximately 6 miles further south per my rough calculation. Look at that - possibly still room for speculation !

Actually is over ten miles.

https://i.imgur.com/L7uT9HS.png

[Stu from NYC]

Doesn't take 6 hours to drive the length of TV though.

Have you seen the way some people around here drive their carts?

At some point expect to see tents pitched near the cart paths as people cannot make it in one day

[Altavia]

Have you seen the way some people around here drive their carts?

At some point expect to see tents pitched near the cart paths as people cannot make it in one day

Or something this :1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

Has anyone noticed the construction update listed a couple times per week in the Daily Sun now separates construction projects between those in the north and south, and projects such as the Woodworking Shop in Brownwood are classified as northern projects?

If the doom and gloom predictions listed in the Daily Sun articles about the negative effects of slow economic growth are true, when addressing the potential effects of increased impact fees, I sure wish they would start tapping the breaks on the current growth rate so that the eventual stoppage in growth (cheap land is not infinite) can be delayed for many more years. The way I see it is that the growth is a game of musical chairs, and when the growth (music) suddenly stops, there won’t be enough chairs to go around. So why not slow down the music so everyone can enjoy it for as long as possible.

I think the reasons for the rapid growth, seemingly as quickly as possible, are primarily twofold. Profits as soon as possible are better than spread out over time, and the end of the wave of retiring baby boomers with fat juicy savings accounts, pensions, and 401k’s is on the horizon. What worries me is when all of us baby boomers pass on, there won’t be nearly the demand from future generations to support a place the size of the Villages. Oh well, I guess that will be our kids problem?

[rrb48310]

Has anyone noticed the construction update listed a couple times per week in the Daily Sun now separates construction projects between those in the north and south, and projects such as the Woodworking Shop in Brownwood are classified as northern projects?

If the doom and gloom predictions listed in the Daily Sun articles about the negative effects of slow economic growth are true, when addressing the potential effects of increased impact fees, I sure wish they would start tapping the breaks on the current growth rate so that the eventual stoppage in growth (cheap land is not infinite) can be delayed for many more years. The way I see it is that the growth is a game of musical chairs, and when the growth (music) suddenly stops, there won’t be enough chairs to go around. So why not slow down the music so everyone can enjoy it for as long as possible.

I think the reasons for the rapid growth, seemingly as quickly as possible, are primarily twofold. Profits as soon as possible are better than spread out over time, and the end of the wave of retiring baby boomers with fat juicy savings accounts, pensions, and 401k’s is on the horizon. What worries me is when all of us baby boomers pass on, there won’t be nearly the demand from future generations to support a place the size of the Villages. Oh well, I guess that will be our kids problem?

The Baby Boomers are not the largest anymore, the Millennials are. God help us, but they are starting to grow up and even play golf. Keep the faith.


Resident population in the United States in 2019, by generation (in millions)

Population in millions
The Baby Boomer Generation (born 1946-1964) 69.56
Generation X (born 1965-1980) 65.17
The Millennial Generation (born 1981-1996) 72.12
Generation Z (born 1997-2012) 67.17

[tophcfa]

The Baby Boomers are not the largest anymore, the Millennials are. God help us, but they are starting to grow up and even play golf. Keep the faith.

But when will they start saving for retirement? They won't have pensions and it's anybody's best guess if Social Security will even be solvent by the time they retire. The GIG economy is not what made our generation able to buy homes in the Villages.

On top of that, the poor millennials are the ones that are going to eventually have to pay the piper for the unsustainable debt our government has become addicted to.

[MorTech]

Mass Boomer Retirement(TM) will end in the next 5 years. TV will probably expand past Center Hill. Hopefully strip clubs and casinos in town squares.

[Two Bills]

I'm more curious about what would happen if the next generation of heirs to the Morse family throne decides he doesn't want to deal with the Villages at all, and just gives it up.

Most of the present population will be dead and gone by then.
All that worrying for nothing!:shrug:

[Stu from NYC]

Most of the present population will be dead and gone by then.
All that worrying for nothing!:shrug:

Dead and gone? Not just dead?:icon_wink:

[Cookie Princess]

I thought Goldwing Nut had said that the 4th square WASN'T the Sawgrass Grove area, but would be built later further south. I thought there was like a 20-30 year build out plan.

[Altavia]

I thought Goldwing Nut had said that the 4th square WASN'T the Sawgrass Grove area, but would be built later further south. I though there was like a 20-30 year build out plan.

The 4th square will be the Lifestyle Center The lake in that map is a mile long so it will be a large facility.

[rrb48310]

But when will they start saving for retirement? They won't have pensions and it's anybody's best guess if Social Security will even be solvent by the time they retire. The GIG economy is not what made our generation able to buy homes in the Villages.

On top of that, the poor millennials are the ones that are going to eventually have to pay the piper for the unsustainable debt our government has become addicted to.

I think the "pension" that was common place is going by the wayside, most companies are moving to 401k's less expensive for them and more secure for the employee. But you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it, I think companies are enrolling employees and its up to them to stop.

There is plenty making money in the Gig economy ie Bitcoin, Game Stop etc. I agree that the millennials and them some will be paying for the debt.

[Lovey2]

Always said we'd be driving to Disney one day on our carts. They will throw up a small hotel/motel/Holiday inn (remember?:icon_wink:) and a gas and charging station about 1/2 way. Good times....

[Larchap49]

In order for RT44 to be the geographic center of TV the southern boundary of your attached map would need to extend approximately 6 miles further south per my rough calculation. Look at that - possibly still room for speculation !

True or not? I have heard Brooksville is at the proposed southern border

[rustyp]

True or not? I have heard Brooksville is at the proposed southern border

Ref post #17

[Topspinmo]

What speculation, the purchase of the property and planning have been disclosed over the past few years?

If you don't like development, The Villages, and Florida, is not the best place to be.

Developer could of never expanded across 441 if?

Not the developers that cause the expansion, it’s the locals that sale the land. If natives don’t want development don’t sell the land. But, we know what happens when gramps/grandma dies, the kids sell out.

[Topspinmo]

Always said we'd be driving to Disney one day on our carts. They will throw up a small hotel/motel/Holiday inn (remember?:icon_wink:) and a gas and charging station about 1/2 way. Good times....


We will be long gone before that happens. Once the sisters are gone the kids will likely cash in and sell out.

[JP]

True or not? I have heard Brooksville is at the proposed southern border

I agree with you based on acreage bought.

[Stu from NYC]

We will be long gone before that happens. Once the sisters are gone the kids will likely cash in and sell out.

Why cash in if the place is still making great money.

Hire professional managers and go off and sit on a beach with a drink in their hand.

[Dilligas]

Double today's population that will make The Villages the fourth largest metro area in population in Florida
1 Jacksonville
2 Miami
3 Tampa
4 The Villages
and Orlando???

[Stu from NYC]

and Orlando???

Tallahassee?

[cegallup]

You read it here first. 44 will eventually separate something called Villages North from Villages South with separate governance in each. Or some part of the north side will be sold off to a developer. Look at the projected geographic size of the monster. It will be way too unwieldy as one unified entity.It really does make sense to have independent "Villages" (North and South). The "facilities", recreation and entertainment are becoming too congested. Not that it doesn't work now, but would flow and prosper if the Districts had a better picture of their future.

[rustyp]

and Orlando???

Tallahassee?


Ref post #88

[Dilligas]

LOL!! Development would stop...anywhere!?! Good one!! :)
People continue to respond with "they promised ..... ". The Villages Developers assuredly made no 'promises of the future' for anything. A business executive would be foolish to promise. Now someone may have made comments that there were no plans to expand beyond SR44 or something like that. If 'they' promised before acquiring sufficient land, every greedy person in the area would try to buy up the land in order to resell it to TV at a profit.

[Dilligas]

I was told that too.
You both may be correct, in that The Villages sales people find out about expansion about the same time the public does. Their job is to sell homes and at the time you were 'told', that was all they knew about.

[Stu from NYC]

People continue to respond with "they promised ..... ". The Villages Developers assuredly made no 'promises of the future' for anything. A business executive would be foolish to promise. Now someone may have made comments that there were no plans to expand beyond SR44 or something like that. If 'they' promised before acquiring sufficient land, every greedy person in the area would try to buy up the land in order to resell it to TV at a profit.

Your right of course. TV will continue to expand as long as they have demand for all the homes they keep building

[Aloha1]

I wish they could've asked under oath, wasn't the original promise that the development would stop at 44?

There was never such a promise. Statements by sales agents are never admissible under law.

[Aloha1]

No. The original promise was to stop at 466A! And that we would have a real hospital in that area. And on and on...

Promise?? By whom? When??

[Aloha1]

That can’t possibly be true! When we bought in 2011 and they were preparing to start construction below 466A, we were told that that “final build out will be completed in 2015”! LIES. ALL LIES.

Who said? If it was not in your closing docs, it doesn't exist. Due diligence is not just a suggestion.

[Aloha1]

If all these expansion plans were already on the drawing board, why did all the developer’s friends and business partners and the local newspaper continue to tell us that raising impact fees will slow down growth?

This is a multi county development. North Sumter is only a small of the whole.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There's actually some positive that comes from expansion. Now, I don't play golf. So I have no personal horse in this race. But up until this month, all those new folks in the new areas were able to drive their cars up to my neck of the woods, and get golf cart privileges free at the Country Clubs. But now that all the bridges are open, there's nothing stopping them from bringing their own cart. EXCEPT FOR DISTANCE! The further south they go, the fewer of them will come up to the northern courses. The further south they go, the more people nearer to 44 will choose southern courses over northern ones, because they'll have more options. And that means the people in the northern half of the Villages will not have to compete for tee-times with the southern half anymore.

That $6 cart rental fee - when they've been getting it free all along...

[Northwoods]

That’s all right, you guys stay north of 44, we will handle it down here. No problem.

That's a deal!! You play your golf courses south of 44 and we'll play ours...

[Joe V.]

That's a deal!! You play your golf courses south of 44 and we'll play ours...

Except those are not yours neither are the ones down here ours.

[NatureBoy]

This has been a fun thread.

I’m a child of boomers getting ready to move to TV in a couple years.

I’m also concerned about what happens when the boomers start dying off. Will there be enough people to fill in behind them and buy the new development? Also, just because the Developer bought the property doesn’t mean it has to become 55+ housing.

There seems to be a wave of people migrating south. Will that continue long enough to fill TV? Probably. There is lots of development going up all over FL, so people with money to invest are betting so.

TV is an amazing example of SimCity being played in real life. The Morses seem to be able to play the game pretty well, creating an attractive environment people want to live in. I don’t begrudge them getting rich along the way. With the medical center it seems their focus is moving away from merely a retirement community. I think that’s good thing.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

This has been a fun thread.

I’m a child of boomers getting ready to move to TV in a couple years.

I’m also concerned about what happens when the boomers start dying off. Will there be enough people to fill in behind them and buy the new development? Also, just because the Developer bought the property doesn’t mean it has to become 55+ housing.

There seems to be a wave of people migrating south. Will that continue long enough to fill TV? Probably. There is lots of development going up all over FL, so people with money to invest are betting so.

TV is an amazing example of SimCity being played in real life. The Morses seem to be able to play the game pretty well, creating an attractive environment people want to live in. I don’t begrudge them getting rich along the way. With the medical center it seems their focus is moving away from merely a retirement community. I think that’s good thing.

Heh most of the readers on this forum won't understand the reference to SimCity. I was in a group that successfully built a small town back in the late-1990's. And then everyone defected to Ultima Online. I ran into a few of them in Dwarf Fortress but I only got as far as digging a short turn in a tunnel before giving up from boredom.

Not much of a rogue-like player. I found my thrill in MUDs.

[tophcfa]

There's actually some positive that comes from expansion. Now, I don't play golf. So I have no personal horse in this race. But up until this month, all those new folks in the new areas were able to drive their cars up to my neck of the woods, and get golf cart privileges free at the Country Clubs. But now that all the bridges are open, there's nothing stopping them from bringing their own cart. EXCEPT FOR DISTANCE! The further south they go, the fewer of them will come up to the northern courses. The further south they go, the more people nearer to 44 will choose southern courses over northern ones, because they'll have more options. And that means the people in the northern half of the Villages will not have to compete for tee-times with the southern half anymore.

That $6 cart rental fee - when they've been getting it free all along...

They will still come north, there are 12 Championship courses (10 of which are 27 holes) north of 44. There are currently zero Championship courses south of 44, with only one 18 hole course under construction.

[Northwoods]

Except those are not yours neither are the ones down here ours.

I agree. I was just pointing out... The original poster told people to "stay north of 44. We can take care of thing south of 44." So I was just agreeing with him.
It was a little bit "be careful of what you wish for..."

[Altavia]

They will still come north, there are 12 Championship courses (10 of which are 27 holes) north of 44. There are currently zero Championship courses south of 44, with only one 18 hole course under construction.

And 45 holes of Championship golf planned in the next phase.

[rustyp]

An excerpt from an online news source journalist Meta Minten
A former Properties of The Villages sales representative testified that the atmosphere in the powerful sales arm of Florida’s Friendliest Hometown changed after Developer Gary Morse died.
As The Villages grew and grew, the pressure on the sales force intensified, particularly after the decision was made to cross State Road 44, something Morse publicly had vowed would not happen.

88932

[rustyp]

They will still come north, there are 12 Championship courses (10 of which are 27 holes) north of 44. There are currently zero Championship courses south of 44, with only one 18 hole course under construction.

FYI - home sales started springtime 2017 in Fenny. I believe there was 55 homes occupied by June 2017. I do remember the Championship Golf is coming soon sales pitch. That was 4 years ago and still no Championship Golf Course. But then again no one has any promise in writing - well not in their deed. 4 years is a significant portion of life if you purchased at 65 yrs. old. Whatever happened to handshakes in our society ? Anyone know how many homes are occupied south of RT44 today ?

[Joe V.]

An excerpt from an online news source journalist Meta Minten
A former Properties of The Villages sales representative testified that the atmosphere in the powerful sales arm of Florida’s Friendliest Hometown changed after Developer Gary Morse died.
As The Villages grew and grew, the pressure on the sales force intensified, particularly after the decision was made to cross State Road 44, something Morse publicly had vowed would not happen.

88932

Ok. He ran the business according to his views. But when Morse died he left the business to his inheritors. The next generation had a vision different than his. Each succeeding generation sees things different. That is this generation ownership's right.

[dewilson58]

I’m also concerned about what happens when the boomers start dying off. Will there be enough people to fill in behind them and buy the new development?
In 20 years there will be 275,000 people turning 65 EVERY MONTH, now it's 310,000.
The sky is not falling.

[vintageogauge]

FYI - home sales started springtime 2017 in Fenny. I believe there was 55 homes occupied by June 2017. I do remember the Championship Golf is coming soon sales pitch. That was 4 years ago and still no Championship Golf Course. But then again no one has any promise in writing - well not in their deed. 4 years is a significant portion of life if you purchased at 65 yrs. old. Whatever happened to handshakes in our society ? Anyone know how many homes are occupied south of RT44 today ?

We bought our home in Fenney in May of 2017 and our sales agent, Beth Pope, never talked about a championship course being built down here, she only commented on amenities that were public and on the horizon. I doubt that there were a large percentage of those buying here in the early years that bought due to a promise of championship golf as it was available to us at all of the existing courses and we didn't have to worry about having a golf car to use. Those that have been playing at the existing courses for the last ten or 20 years are probably more anxious to have new courses built than those that reside south of 44.

[Pairadocs]

I wish they could've asked under oath, wasn't the original promise that the development would stop at 44?

Lol, Lol, and.... Lol !

[grayesun]

No big surprise...always imagined we'd someday be driving to Disney, Universal, MCO & the Gulf of Mexico in our golf carts!

[Pairadocs]

[QUOTE=Stu from NYC;1924264]Have you seen the way some people around here drive their carts?

At some point expect to see tents pitched near the cart paths as people cannot make it in one day

And consider, very VERY few carts obey the speed limit for carts (even though "fixed" so they can't exceed the villages limit for carts, most just go home and mechanically by-pass that ! Just saw two young teenage women today driving 26 mph (checked it) and had no control over the cart at all.... yet, laughing wildly ! ? LIKE teens having fun, but let's face it, most adults around here run at 25-30 and even "race" others to where paths narrow. So unnecessary, sad. Thought : IF the Villages would build a go cart race track (like on any of the open spaces where our buffalo USED to roam ?), that would allow people to get the crazy teen behavior "out of their systems" the "adult" in them can take over when they get into their golf-carts ?? LOL, I doubt it but, worth a try, we certainly have the space to build one !

[rustyp]

We bought our home in Fenney in May of 2017 and our sales agent, Beth Pope, never talked about a championship course being built down here, she only commented on amenities that were public and on the horizon. I doubt that there were a large percentage of those buying here in the early years that bought due to a promise of championship golf as it was available to us at all of the existing courses and we didn't have to worry about having a golf car to use. Those that have been playing at the existing courses for the last ten or 20 years are probably more anxious to have new courses built than those that reside south of 44.

There is/was two sides to that coin. Gary Morse's vow of stopping at RT44 was made not to new Fenny owners but to existing people living in TV. Growth was happening so fast we existing homeowners experienced first hand more and more difficulty getting Tee times. TV's build policy before Fenny was build golf courses first then the neighborhoods. The amenity fees didn't decrease with less available tee times. By not building championship courses south of RT44 taxed the courses north of there. It was not a we / they thing. Both sides did not benefit from this excessive delay of building these courses.

[Topspinmo]

It really does make sense to have independent "Villages" (North and South). The "facilities", recreation and entertainment are becoming too congested. Not that it doesn't work now, but would flow and prosper if the Districts had a better picture of their future.

Isn’t the north side already sold off to the district’s? Or are you talking commercial property and championship golf courses?

[bpascani]

Really doesn't matter. Non Villagers can come to the squares, and do! No ID required

[Lottoguy]

The more they build in the southern area the more the homes in the far north will increase. The real estate people love this area because it's less crowded and they never have a problem getting tee times.

[vintageogauge]

The more they build in the southern area the more the homes in the far north will increase. The real estate people love this area because it's less crowded and they never have a problem getting tee times.

Actually the less homes they build in the south the more the existing homes will go up in value as the demand would still be there but less new homes to buy. I don't know about it being less crowded up there, I would sooner drive across 44 than I would 42.

[Dave@TV]

I wish they could've asked under oath, wasn't the original promise that the development would stop at 44?

No, we were told in 2005 that the development would stop at 466A.

[Stu from NYC]

If we were part of the Morse family or stockholder in this empire would you want to stop building?
Cannot blame them at all

[Goldwingnut]

No, we were told in 2005 that the development would stop at 466A.

Sept 28, 2004 CDD-9 was established.
Sept 28, 2004 CDD-10 was established.
Sept 28, 2004 the developer made it perfectly clear and a part of public record that they intended to continue building south of CR466A.

And in 2005, you were told the development would stop at 466A by either a liar or a clueless soul who didn't know what was happening around them, either way, there was no deception by the developer, only the person trying to make a fast buck off of you.

Caveat Emptor

[jarodrig]

Sept 28, 2004 CDD-9 was established.
Sept 28, 2004 CDD-10 was established.
Sept 28, 2004 the developer made it perfectly clear and a part of public record that they intended to continue building south of CR466A.

And in 2005, you were told the development would stop at 466A by either a liar or a clueless soul who didn't know what was happening around them, either way, there was no deception by the developer, only the person trying to make a fast buck off of you.

Caveat Emptor

Don,

I don’t need to tell you that this forum is full of “keyboard experts” that have nothing better to do than to spew their nonsense !!

And there you go, once again, confusing these folks with facts...... SHAME ON YOU !!! :boom:

[Stu from NYC]

Don,

I don’t need to tell you that this forum is full of “keyboard experts” that have nothing better to do than to spew their nonsense !!

And there you go, once again, confusing these folks with facts...... SHAME ON YOU !!! :boom:

Even if they said they would stop arent they entitled to changed their mind as conditions warrant?

[Bogie Shooter]

Even if they said they would stop arent they entitled to changed their mind as conditions warrant?

Why sure......

[jarodrig]

Even if they said they would stop arent they entitled to changed their mind as conditions warrant?

You are right..... but, my contention is that NO ONE was PROMISED anything !!

Whenever I have asked for anyone to provide proof of their claim IN WRITING, guess what ?? All you hear are crickets !! :1rotfl:

[dewilson58]

If we were part of the Morse family or stockholder in this empire would you want to stop building?
Cannot blame them at all

Considering it's a Land Development Company...............why stop developing. :shrug:

[bmarlo767]

No. The original promise was to stop at 466A! And that we would have a real hospital in that area. And on and on...

I think you are confusing Promise with Plans!

[Arctic Fox]

(In my opinion) that position has already been filled...by CR 42.....the Northernmost E-W route in TV....to E-W CR 466 to the South.

Yes, it all depends on when you moved to TV.

For us, anything below 466A is "new" and unlikely to be visited on anything but a very occasional basis, so further expansion south will not affect (or concern) us one iota.

[tophcfa]

Yes, it all depends on when you moved to TV.

For us, anything below 466A is "new" and unlikely to be visited on anything but a very occasional basis, so further expansion south will not affect (or concern) us one iota.

That’s exactly what I thought, then our property taxes went up 25% and it has become increasingly difficult to get desired T-Times. Plus, the Farmers Market we enjoyed in Spanish Springs for many years was moved to Brownwood so it could be closer to where they are selling new homes.

[vintageogauge]

That’s exactly what I thought, then our property taxes went up 25% and it has become increasingly difficult to get desired T-Times. Plus, the Farmers Market we enjoyed in Spanish Springs for many years was moved to Brownwood so it could be closer to where they are selling new homes.

What does continued growth have to do with your property taxes going up? Maybe they moved the Farmers Market south because no one was spending any money when it was in Spanish Springs similar to Kattie Belle's and Hacienda Country Club and Demshire's.

[Arctic Fox]

...the Farmers Market we enjoyed in Spanish Springs for many years was moved to Brownwood so it could be closer to where they are selling new homes.

Shame about the Farmers' Market, but I'm glad they still hold the monthly cruise-in at Spanish Springs.

[rustyp]

What does continued growth have to do with your property taxes going up? Maybe they moved the Farmers Market south because no one was spending any money when it was in Spanish Springs similar to Kattie Belle's and Hacienda Country Club and Demshire's.

Must have been water with lemon drinkers in Lake Sumter Landing also with the closing of well just as starters - Guy Fieri's, Honest John's Whiskey, TGI Fridays. Brownwood beware the flock is migrating south.

[vintageogauge]

Must have been water with lemon drinkers in Lake Sumter Landing also with the closing of well just as starters - Guy Fieri's, Honest John's Whiskey, TGI Fridays. Brownwood beware the flock is migrating south.

It's quite possible, very rarely do profitable retail establishments just decide to close up shop. One that surprised me was the steak house that was in the Sonny's BBQ restaurant, I thought that would go over very well.

[Stu from NYC]

Must have been water with lemon drinkers in Lake Sumter Landing also with the closing of well just as starters - Guy Fieri's, Honest John's Whiskey, TGI Fridays. Brownwood beware the flock is migrating south.

Didnt know Guy Fieri had a restaurant here. However he had one in Manhattan and everyone said it was awful and it closed quickly.

Wonder how this one was?

BTW happen to like water with lemon so no reason to buy overpriced soft drinks that are full of sugar.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Didnt know Guy Fieri had a restaurant here. However he had one in Manhattan and everyone said it was awful and it closed quickly.

Wonder how this one was?

BTW happen to like water with lemon so no reason to buy overpriced soft drinks that are full of sugar.

Yeah I normally drink water throughout the day. The only reason I ask for it with lemon in restaurants is because I can't stand the taste of unfiltered tap water. I also can't stand the taste of water that came from a soda machine's "lemonaid" spout. And rather than bother with "that conversation" with the waiter, I just ask for my water with lemon.

[vintageogauge]

Didnt know Guy Fieri had a restaurant here. However he had one in Manhattan and everyone said it was awful and it closed quickly.

Wonder how this one was?

BTW happen to like water with lemon so no reason to buy overpriced soft drinks that are full of sugar.

Guy's restaurant didn't have good food and was overpriced so they didn't last very long. The Chop House took over and they seem to be doing very well. The reference to water with a lemon is one of the reasons stated on here that Kattie Belle's and Hacienda closed as no one was buying drinks, only water.

[Stu from NYC]

Guy's restaurant didn't have good food and was overpriced so they didn't last very long. The Chop House took over and they seem to be doing very well. The reference to water with a lemon is one of the reasons stated on here that Kattie Belle's and Hacienda closed as no one was buying drinks, only water.

If I owned a restaurant and people were not paying their way, would immediately put in a minimum dollar per person to allow me to stay in business.

Someone who comes in orders just a water and stays for a couple of hours should be asked to go elsewhere.

[rustyp]

If I owned a restaurant and people were not paying their way, would immediately put in a minimum dollar per person to allow me to stay in business.

Someone who comes in orders just a water and stays for a couple of hours should be asked to go elsewhere.

I agree

You all have an obligation to order bottled water with a piece of lemon on the side. You are the very reason restaurants in TV can't make a profit. Another example - Dominic's (Ex Red Sauce) poof gone - can't make money on tap water. To be a good TV citizen I support a bottle only water initiative in our restaurants.

[vintageogauge]

I agree

You all have an obligation to order bottled water with a piece of lemon on the side. You are the very reason restaurants in TV can't make a profit. Another example - Dominic's (Ex Red Sauce) poof gone - can't make money on tap water. To be a good TV citizen I support a bottle only water initiative in our restaurants.

I don't know that I have ever ordered a glass of water in a restaurant in place of a cocktail or soft drink, I do realize that normally they do serve water with meals but I usually have a cocktail or if not in the mood a soft drink. My wife on the other hand likes water with a lemon and I would understand and not be offended if we had to pay for it. Without drinks very few sit down restaurants would survive. (I'm not talking about fast food restaurants)

[dewilson58]

The Villages Growth

[vintageogauge]

I agree

You all have an obligation to order bottled water with a piece of lemon on the side. You are the very reason restaurants in TV can't make a profit. Another example - Dominic's (Ex Red Sauce) poof gone - can't make money on tap water. To be a good TV citizen I support a bottle only water initiative in our restaurants.

We have only lived here for 4 years and it's amazing how many restaurants have closed, we rented during the winter months for 5 or 6 years before buying and many of the restaurants from back then are also gone. I realize some of them are gone because of the virus but many more because of no profit.

[collie1228]

Didnt know Guy Fieri had a restaurant here. However he had one in Manhattan and everyone said it was awful and it closed quickly.

Wonder how this one was?

BTW happen to like water with lemon so no reason to buy overpriced soft drinks that are full of sugar.

IMHO, Fieri's restaurant in The Villages was easily the worst one I've experienced in the nine years I've been a resident here. Went there twice. Both times the food was close to awful, and the service was lacking. Note also, that although he allowed his name to be used, he never even showed up at "his" restaurant. Ever. He's an interesting character. He cashes in on his "chef's" credentials, but he's not a chef. He has a degree in hotel management, and has managed several restaurants, but never as a chef.

[Stu from NYC]

IMHO, Fieri's restaurant in The Villages was easily the worst one I've experienced in the nine years I've been a resident here. Went there twice. Both times the food was close to awful, and the service was lacking. Note also, that although he allowed his name to be used, he never even showed up at "his" restaurant. Ever. He's an interesting character. He cashes in on his "chef's" credentials, but he's not a chef. He has a degree in hotel management, and has managed several restaurants, but never as a chef.

On Carnival he has a Guys Burger on the lido deck. No idea how involved he is or was.

Burgers are good but with a very high fat content.

[Stu from NYC]

I agree

You all have an obligation to order bottled water with a piece of lemon on the side. You are the very reason restaurants in TV can't make a profit. Another example - Dominic's (Ex Red Sauce) poof gone - can't make money on tap water. To be a good TV citizen I support a bottle only water initiative in our restaurants.

I do not have an obligation to order bottled water in any restaurant. We do not just order drinks but do order food when we go to a restaurant.

See no reason to pay for tap water. If an individual restaurant started charging would probably be a deal breaker for us.

Will say though that in many restaurants in Europe they will bring you a carafe and charge you for the water.

[barbyboc]

The census records where you are on census day. We wanted to claim our home state address mainly for government funding to the schools. We were required to put our Florida address because that is where we were living on census day.

[Bilyclub]

The census records where you are on census day. We wanted to claim our home state address mainly for government funding to the schools. We were required to put our Florida address because that is where we were living on census day.

Never heard of a census day in the US and what does it have to do with the expansion of TV.

[vinricci]

It was not good.

[Schaumburger]

Do not think this is a surprise. What is the trial about?

The Villages developer is suing some former sales reps, who started their own real estate firm, for violating a non-compete agreement the agents signed. I think The Villages developer's objective with this lawsuit is to prevent the "rogue" sales agents from listing and selling preowned homes in The Villages for a certain period of time (maybe 24 months).