Pimlico...don't bother...

[Mortal1]

more dirt than grass on the greens.

It's more than unusual that a grass that is considered a weed in Florida is difficult to grow in the sunshine state by incompetent course maintenance companies.

[sheena0904]

more dirt than grass on the greens.

It's more than unusual that a grass that is considered a weed in Florida is difficult to grow in the sunshine state by incompetent course maintenance companies.

What weed would that be?

[Mortal1]

What weed would that be?

when working at Evans prairie I spoke with the golf course superintendent/greens keeper about the course grass. He stated that the greens, tees, fairways, aprons, fringe(see frog hair)and most of the rough was Bermuda grass and was generally considered a "weed" here in Florida due to the abundance of it growing most everywhere.

Now it's still a type of "grass" and as such requires certain variables to grow well. We have the sun, good soil drainage(in most places). The problems are other undesirable grasses and not enough nutrients of the proper kind....and H20.

[Mleeja]

when working at Evans prairie I spoke with the golf course superintendent/greens keeper about the course grass. He stated that the greens, tees, fairways, aprons, fringe(see frog hair)and most of the rough was Bermuda grass and was generally considered a "weed" here in Florida due to the abundance of it growing most everywhere.

Now it's still a type of "grass" and as such requires certain variables to grow well. We have the sun, good soil drainage(in most places). The problems are other undesirable grasses and not enough nutrients of the proper kind....and H20.

I bet ACE Hardware doesn’t consider Bermuda grass a weed. They have 3 pound bags of Bermuda grass seed on sale this week!

[Mortal1]

I bet ACE Hardware doesn’t consider Bermuda grass a weed. They have 3 pound bags of Bermuda grass seed on sale this week!

so your criteria for something not being a weed is that it's sold in a bag? Sorry, but that logic doesn't hold water.

[Mleeja]

so your criteria for something not being a weed is that it's sold in a bag? Sorry, but that logic doesn't hold water.

Per Pennington.com
Bermudagrass is native to tropical and subtropical countries worldwide. Exactly when it arrived in the U.S. is unclear, but documents dating back to 1807 show it was already established as one of the primary grasses in southern states.1 Bermudagrass is a perennial warm-season grass, meaning it comes back every year and grows most actively from late spring through hot summer months.

Bermudagrass is more sensitive to cold temperatures than warm-season Zoysia grass or cool-season grasses, such as turf-type tall fescue. This lack of cold tolerance prevents its wide spread use north of the grass-growing region lawn pros refer to as the “transition zone." South of that region, from the Atlantic across southern states into California, Bermudagrass is a leading lawn choice.

Bermuda grass flourishes in sites with full, direct sun and good drainage. It has superior heat, salt and humidity tolerance and, unlike Centipede grass, is very drought tolerant, too. Though the majority of Bermuda's roots stay within 6 inches of the surface, they can reach 6 feet or more in depth.1

This extensive root system provides more resilience against environmental stresses than other warm-season grasses.

[Yvonnebang]

I agree. I have never seen the greens in Pimlico/Churchill/Belmont be so horrible! And I have played there alot in the past years. All other executive courses are in much better condition. Has the maintenance groundkeeper management changed??

It's more than unusual that a grass that is considered a weed in Florida is difficult to grow in the sunshine state by incompetent course maintenance companies.[/QUOTE]

[gwenhwalker@yahoo.com]

Back home we called it wire grass. Almost impossible to remove if it gets into flower beds

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

First of all, a weed is any plant that is growing where you don't want it to grow. We see fields of wild flowers that we may think are beautiful but they're popping up on your nicely manicured lawn, you'd call them a weed.

Secondly, there are perhaps hundreds of different strains of Bermuda grass. Some are great for golf courses and others are not.

Most golf courses in Florida and most of the southern US are planted primarily with Bermuda. Most greens are Bermuda but it is not the same Bermuda that you may have on you lawn.

Bermuda is a warm season grass that goes dormant in the winter. That means that it basically goes to sleep and doesn't grow. The existing plants turn brown and are not bad to play on. Most golf courses in the south over seed with an annual rye grass. There are two reason for doing this. One, is that it is aesthetically pleasing. But also because when divots are taken from the dormant Bermuda, it doesn't grow back and fill in. Also the damage done to the turf while it is dormant doesn't repair itself as northern grasses and southern grasses do in their respective seasons.

I think that the reason that The Villages courses are in such bad shape is that they don't over seed. It doesn't matter how much you water and fertilize dormant Bermuda, it's not going to grow and it's not going to turn green. Watering and fertilizing dormant grass might be be beneficial to them once they begin to awaken but it won't make playing conditions any better during the dormant season.

It all comes down to money. But that doesn't explain why there are courses just outside The Villages that we can play for a lower green fee and better conditions and The Villages courses.

I love The Villages and am amazed at how well everything is done here, except for golf.

The rec centers and pools are beautiful, the tennis courts, MM paths, flowers every where. It's all spectacular until you walk onto a golf course. This is very surprising to me, especially since The Villages promotes the idea of "Free Golf" as a huge selling point. You would think that where they take so much pride in every other aspect of this community, they would put a bit more effort into the golf courses.

[GeriS]

I agree. I have never seen the greens in Pimlico/Churchill/Belmont be so horrible! And I have played there alot in the past years. All other executive courses are in much better condition. Has the maintenance groundkeeper management changed??

It's more than unusual that a grass that is considered a weed in Florida is difficult to grow in the sunshine state by incompetent course maintenance companies.[/QUOTE]
We played Belmont a week ago & hole 2 was no where near a green. The flag was stuck in dead grass in the middle of what would be considered the fairway. Never saw that before. The least the person at the check in could have done was to tell us.

[Mortal1]

I think that the reason that The Villages courses are in such bad shape is that they don't over seed.

It all comes down to money. But that doesn't explain why there are courses just outside The Villages that we can play for a lower green fee and better conditions and The Villages courses.

They are in bad shape because of a)it is dormant in winter as you said b)they lose some parts of greens due to fungus and improper maintenance. The root systems on those courses where there are issues(bare spots, black fungus)will have next to no root systems...thus they die off. Just fix a pitch mark on those greens and you only get dirt. I've played many of the courses outside of the villages and they are no better at maintaining the course unless they overseed.

Overseeding doesn't improve the Bermuda grass it only provides a playing surface for those months in which the Bermuda is not growing. It usually dies off on it's own when the Bermuda starts to grow, but on occasion must be poisoned.

The money part seems to be caused by the lack of available water a number of years ago where they over seeded with a winter rye and due to lack of rain the winter/spring before the retaining ponds were very low or even dry in some cases. So they couldn't water the winter rye to promote growth. The overseed in most cases didn't take so the powers that control that purse lost all that $$$. The next year they only used the rye grass in a few areas and the year after that almost no winter rye was utilized.

[wamley]

Add the cost of a rental golf card to the Villages prices and you'll find that it's very expensive indeed. After all the lower prices on the outside includes a golf cart. The higher price inside the villages does not, as we supply the golf cart.

[sheena0904]

First of all, a weed is any plant that is growing where you don't want it to grow. We see fields of wild flowers that we may think are beautiful but they're popping up on your nicely manicured lawn, you'd call them a weed.

Secondly, there are perhaps hundreds of different strains of Bermuda grass. Some are great for golf courses and others are not.

Most golf courses in Florida and most of the southern US are planted primarily with Bermuda. Most greens are Bermuda but it is not the same Bermuda that you may have on you lawn.

Bermuda is a warm season grass that goes dormant in the winter. That means that it basically goes to sleep and doesn't grow. The existing plants turn brown and are not bad to play on. Most golf courses in the south over seed with an annual rye grass. There are two reason for doing this. One, is that it is aesthetically pleasing. But also because when divots are taken from the dormant Bermuda, it doesn't grow back and fill in. Also the damage done to the turf while it is dormant doesn't repair itself as northern grasses and southern grasses do in their respective seasons.

I think that the reason that The Villages courses are in such bad shape is that they don't over seed. It doesn't matter how much you water and fertilize dormant Bermuda, it's not going to grow and it's not going to turn green. Watering and fertilizing dormant grass might be be beneficial to them once they begin to awaken but it won't make playing conditions any better during the dormant season.

It all comes down to money. But that doesn't explain why there are courses just outside The Villages that we can play for a lower green fee and better conditions and The Villages courses.

I love The Villages and am amazed at how well everything is done here, except for golf.

The rec centers and pools are beautiful, the tennis courts, MM paths, flowers every where. It's all spectacular until you walk onto a golf course. This is very surprising to me, especially since The Villages promotes the idea of "Free Golf" as a huge selling point. You would think that where they take so much pride in every other aspect of this community, they would put a bit more effort into the golf courses.

You say the same thing in every golf course thread. Why don’t you take care of the courses or help if you are so knowledgeable?

[Mleeja]

You say the same thing in every golf course thread. Why don’t you take care of the courses or help if you are so knowledgeable?

I hope your comment was not meant as a negative!?

[Scbang]

Does anyone know which country club maintains Pimlico/Churchill/Belmont?

[arickis]

I have heard a lot of complaints about the conditions of Pimlico, Belmont, and Churchill. Has anyone emailed Mitch Leininger, the Director of Executive Course Maintenance? He is the man to complain to. mitch.leininger@districtgov.org.

[Scbang]

I have heard a lot of complaints about the conditions of Pimlico, Belmont, and Churchill. Has anyone emailed Mitch Leininger, the Director of Executive Course Maintenance? He is the man to complain to. mitch.leininger@districtgov.org.
I just did. Let's see if he responds..

[stanley]

Does anyone know which country club maintains Pimlico/Churchill/Belmont?


Palmer starters and ambassadors. I'm really not sure if it's the same maintenance company for both

[Scbang]

Palmer starters and ambassadors. I'm really not sure if it's the same maintenance company for both
I thought every executive courses are maintained by one country club maintenance crew.
But I can be wrong. Does anyone know for sure?